56. Loneliness and Mental Health: Addressing Mental Conditions for Healthier Lives

Eldar [00:00:00]:
On this week's episode, 

Mike [00:00:02]:
I would go alone, sit at the bar, smoke cigarettes, drink coffee for like, 2 hours and read.

Toliy [00:00:06]:
Anyone telling something to somebody should, like, give them the disclaimer that they could be wrong, and you should think for yourself and make sure that you challenge and. And, like, you know, do all those things.

Eldar [00:00:17]:
Yeah.

Toliy [00:00:17]:
Obviously that is not done in society. So there's a lot of people telling people a lot of things, and those concepts and idea and, like, ideas and stuff, those are taken as absolute truth.

Eldar [00:00:27]:
This person who has no educational background, he did not attend a math class.

Mike [00:00:31]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:00:31]:
So he could have never gotten this knowledge, you know, anywhere else. We know this. So you ask him a series of questions, which this boy or this slave was able to deduce the answer. Socrates explained that this, his soul right here actually is not. Is not creating this knowledge. It's recollecting the knowledge that's within it already. The soul already. Already knows everything that he needs to know about the world.

Mike [00:00:51]:
But when you face yourself like, yo, I'm a piece of shit. I've been doing all this wrong shit. I'm a disgusting, like, you know, piss pig.

Eldar [00:01:08]:
Today's topic, or the question is loneliness an indication of an underlying mental condition, right. And we're not talking about when you just feel lonely once in a while. Probably prolonged loneliness, right? I don't know. Without going to the definition of it, what do you guys think about what loneliness is, especially a prolonged one? What does one feel when they're lonely?

Toliy [00:01:29]:
Well, I think that there's. There's different kinds of loneliness, right? There's like a various times where there's like, a mental feeling of lonely, right? And I think that there's physical feelings of lonely. And I feel like when those feelings enter you, they're. They're very different.

Mike [00:01:49]:
Can you separate? Can you be mentally lonely and. And physically lonely, but physically lonely without mentally lonely?

Toliy [00:01:55]:
Yes.

Mike [00:01:56]:
You can? Yes. Oh, okay.

Toliy [00:01:59]:
How? Yeah, like, there's. I mean, like, you always hear stories, right? I guess, of people, like, you know, like, oh, they're like, oh, what do you mean? Like that guy had plenty of friends, you know, like, good job or whatever, right? Like you. Like. Like, that person's almost like, I don't know, the person may have harmed himself or done something, right?

Eldar [00:02:18]:
Yeah.

Toliy [00:02:19]:
And people are almost, like, baffled. Like, like, what do you mean? He had everything ahead of him, you know, or like, you know, he had plenty of friends, good job, you know, or like. Like, whatever, right? They're gonna give their reasons as to, like, how it's like, whoa, that guy wasn't lonely, right? But he was maybe physically nothing lonely.

Eldar [00:02:37]:
Well, don't. Don't you think? Yeah, but don't you think they just kind of, uh. It's a kind of like a reaction, right? It's a shocking reaction that usually people try to make sense of the world as to say, like, wait, this is what's an anomaly kind of thing, you know? And they can't make sense of what's actually going on. Yes.

Mike [00:02:51]:
Well.

Eldar [00:02:51]:
Well, I mean, like, anytime you look under the hood, right?

Toliy [00:02:55]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:02:55]:
Then. And then people like, oh, no, you are actually. I remember him making that comment. Then I see him really sitting there, kind of, like, to himself. Well, no.

Toliy [00:03:03]:
Like, yes and no. That. That's what I'm saying about, like, the physical and mental loneliness, because, like, there's those people that, like, you can view and you're like, yo, like, that guy's a loner. Right? Or, like, she's a loner.

Mike [00:03:16]:
We're talking about the perception or the reality.

Toliy [00:03:18]:
Yeah, no, the. The reality. So where you clearly see, like, someone's, like, yo, like, they're kind of separating themselves, right? Like, they're, like, doing their own thing. Like, they're not wanting to do anything.

Eldar [00:03:29]:
Yeah.

Toliy [00:03:30]:
Like. Like, they could be physically, like, not. Not like, pursuing much friendships or not, like, really going out there and doing things. Right. I think it could be fair to describe them as, like, physically lonely.

Eldar [00:03:48]:
But doesn't mean loners, maybe.

Toliy [00:03:50]:
Yeah. Yeah. But then they would be the carrying out the actions of loneliness if they're loners.

Eldar [00:03:56]:
Okay.

Toliy [00:03:56]:
Right. And then there could be people on the opposite spectrum. We're like, you know. What do you mean? Like, he goes out all the time. You know, stuff like that. Stuff like that. But then mentally, when they sit with themselves, they're. They are lonely.

Toliy [00:04:08]:
And sometimes they could be doing. Sometimes people who are mentally lonely and themselves lonely, right. They could be trying to seek physical remedies for mental issues by, like, saying, okay, like, I have all these things. Therefore, I'm going to fill my day with tons of going out, tons of this, tons of work. I don't know. Tons of working out, right. Like, fill my whole day with stuff like that so that I can avoid the feelings of those physical. Of those mental loneliness.

Toliy [00:04:36]:
Right. And, like, you hear that, I think, in different stories with, like, celebrities and stuff like that, right? Like, when people view them as, like, oh, they got have it. They have everything, right? Stuff like that. And then, like, they do these interviews and stuff like that, they feel like, you know, I have all this money and stuff like that, but I have nobody. You know, I have no genuine relationships, you know, stuff like that. But they could fill their day like this. You can never categorize them as lonely.

Eldar [00:04:59]:
Physically, yeah.

Toliy [00:05:00]:
But mentally they could be. So I think they're like, those are two different things. And I have a suspicion that they're sometimes combated with the right, with the wrong things. So, like, sometimes physical, sometimes. Well, I think the more common one is that mental loneliness is combated with physical, like, like physical loneliness of remedies.

Mike [00:05:26]:
Yeah. I don't understand that. If you're mentally lonely, you go out and you try to be physically lonely.

Eldar [00:05:31]:
No. Physically engaged with other people, then you're.

Mike [00:05:34]:
Not lonely anymore, physically, no.

Eldar [00:05:36]:
But you're making an impression for yourself that this is remedy to your actual loneliness. Right. Mental. Yeah, mental thing is you're just drowning yourself. Yeah.

Mike [00:05:45]:
Yes, I agree with you.

Toliy [00:05:47]:
You're trying to do, like, you're trying to apply the wrong.

Mike [00:05:49]:
I got it.

Toliy [00:05:49]:
Remedies to them. You're tricking yourself thinking that you're actually making progress on these things by going out.

Eldar [00:05:57]:
Right.

Mike [00:05:57]:
No, I get it. Right.

Toliy [00:05:58]:
Filling your day with shit.

Eldar [00:06:00]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:06:00]:
So how do you, how do you, how do you do the opposite then? How are you physically lonely but mentally you're not lonely?

Toliy [00:06:07]:
No, I. So, so I would have to think about how that would happen, but I think that, like. Oh, yeah, no, no, so that that could happen. I was saying that I wasn't sure, like, I wasn't sure about, like, how people would be applying remedies the opposite way. But, like, you could be physically where people are like, oh, like, he doesn't do anything. Stuff like that.

Mike [00:06:27]:
No, no, but that's just what people see yourself we're asking about internally. No, yeah. Like, people could say you're lonely, you're not lonely, you're happy, you're not happy, but it doesn't indicate what the truth of the situation is. Right. If you feel physically lonely, how does that feel?

Toliy [00:06:40]:
Physically lonely, feels that maybe you are. Yeah. Mentally have things to offer or mentally, like, kind of like. Okay. Or like, break.

Mike [00:06:48]:
I don't think it's possible to be mentally lonely and like, I don't think it's possible to be physically lonely but not mentally lonely at the same time. Because in order to be feel loneliness, you need to have a mind to process that, the physical engagement of it. No.

Toliy [00:07:00]:
Yeah. I don't know, because I think that, like, there could be a lot of people that have a lot of things to offer and understand things, you know, in certain ways, but then, like, they're just not. Like, they're, like, extremely shy or like, they're just not like a people.

Mike [00:07:15]:
Like, again, that's all. It's. It's still mental. They're not. There's no disconnect there. I don't see that. Well, it doesn't matter. I guess maybe that's not relevant here.

Toliy [00:07:23]:
Yeah, but so they could. They could not have a lot of friendships, for example, and not be a lot of engage with people, and they could be physically lonely, but mentally they're okay.

Mike [00:07:32]:
Loneliness is a feeling.

Toliy [00:07:34]:
I mean, like, when you're talking about it in first person for yourself. I think that. Yeah, it's like a feeling. Or it could be described as, like, a state. Like a state of being.

Eldar [00:07:42]:
I think. I think it would, yeah. Based on what we're trying, I think prolonged state of loneliness. It's a state. Right. For a prolonged feeling of loneliness. Yeah, I think it's a state. Comes a state, it becomes a state.

Eldar [00:07:55]:
Right. A state of loneliness. Right. I'm more interested on how someone gets there, right. And whether or not it's an indication. Right. An underlying mental condition. However, now that I'm thinking about it, I think it's not the underlying mental condition.

Eldar [00:08:16]:
Mental condition is the underlying thing. And loneliness is the result of a mental condition. That's what just clicked in my head for some reason. Loneliness is a result of a specific type of mental condition.

Mike [00:08:33]:
Yeah, yeah.

Eldar [00:08:36]:
What do you guys think about that?

Mike [00:08:37]:
That makes sense. Yeah, yeah.

Eldar [00:08:39]:
Right.

Mike [00:08:40]:
Like, because. Because you're saying. Is that. You say that because inherently we're social, so for us not to do what's kind of inherent within us is shows that there's something. Something.

Eldar [00:08:53]:
So remember I told you I gave you an example of, like, being misunderstood, for example, or.

Mike [00:09:00]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:09:00]:
Right. Imagine you in the crowd, you're having a good time or whatever, a bunch of people, and all of a sudden there's a topic that came about. Right. And you're discussing the topic, whatever that might be, and everybody seems to vibe on that same subject. Right. Like saying that, you know, this particular topic, this is good for the environment, let's just say, right? And then you, the only oddball, right. Let's just say out of the ten people that are there, say, no, I disagree with this completely. Okay.

Eldar [00:09:28]:
And you get into a shoving match. Right. Screaming match or whatever, arguing that, um, against that point, that everybody else kind of within that particular. So what happens is if you left that argument and left that argument with left, those people. Right. And stuck with your own ideology or whatever it is. Right. You might feel lonely for the moment, being.

Eldar [00:09:49]:
Yeah. With your type of argument, even though you're with some people. Together with some people. Right. You can feel a sense of loneliness because you're misunderstood. Let's just say. Yeah, yeah, I get that now. There's two outcomes in this thing, right.

Eldar [00:10:04]:
You can be right or you can be wrong because it's an argument. Whatever the argument may be. Yeah. Climate change or whatever. Climate. You know, whatever. Right. You can be either right or wrong.

Eldar [00:10:13]:
I think if you're right. Right. I think if you're right, I think that you can stand. You could have some energy to stand behind it and be okay with, you know, standing alone behind that which you believe in, because it's the truth. However, if you're wrong and you feel a certain type of way about it, like angry, also. Right. Or upset something, especially maybe something you said during argument. Right.

Eldar [00:10:35]:
It can make you feel a certain type of way. And I think that that can slowly maybe build into, um. Potentially feeling lonely. A state. A state of loneliness. First, it comes from misunderstanding, maybe people didn't. You feel like people don't understand you, stuff like that. And if you don't go seek out like minded individuals.

Eldar [00:10:58]:
Right. Who also believe the same type of stuff that you do, you might feel a sense of loneliness. Imagine. Right. Like, there's probably other people that probably believe the same thing that you believe. Right. But in the moment, there weren't any, you know, other people believe something else.

Mike [00:11:12]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:11:12]:
So, you know, you kind of, like you the scapegoat, you kind of the archie out of the group, you know what I mean? And within that particular moment, I think you can get into a feeling of loneliness, depending on how you kind of.

Mike [00:11:26]:
But that's just for that specific moment. It's not ongoing thing.

Eldar [00:11:30]:
But I think that if we talk about this was just a specific moment. But however, I think that if we discuss certain habits and rituals, values, and all this other stuff that we have internally about ourselves and about the world, right. And if stuff is not working out to our advantage, right. Because for some reason we don't, we are wrong about the situation. Right. We start feeling like we're lonely in this world, I think, okay, because we're no longer accepted, we're no longer understood. Right. And whatever it is that you're.

Eldar [00:12:03]:
Whatever it is that you're thinking or believing in, right. Does not provide you enough energy. So not feel lonely.

Mike [00:12:10]:
So is loneliness, like, all encompassing thing or. Right, like this, this example, when it becomes underlying mental condition, is it an all encompassing thing? Like you don't, you feel lonely and everything. You don't have friends, you know, good job. You don't have, like, relationship.

Eldar [00:12:26]:
I'm not sure. I'm not sure if you. We can talk about that.

Mike [00:12:28]:
Obviously.

Eldar [00:12:28]:
We can define how we want to define it.

Mike [00:12:30]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:12:30]:
A loneliness in the whole aspect of your life and, or it can be in specific things.

Mike [00:12:35]:
So you can have. Yeah.

Eldar [00:12:36]:
Like, like, you know, if you don't drink but you go into a social setting, how do you feel? You might feel for the moment a state of loneliness in that specific, you know, action. Right. You're alone. Like, everybody's drinking, everybody's buying drinks for one another, cheering and stuff like that. Right. And like, yeah, to this, to that, you know, and they obviously getting drunk slowly or fast, whatever, you know, but you're sitting and you're not experiencing the same experience as the individuals. Right. Because you clearly not in the same way wavelength because you're not drinking.

Eldar [00:13:15]:
So what are you experiencing?

Mike [00:13:20]:
Yeah, it's interesting. I don't know, but that's a specific moment.

Eldar [00:13:24]:
That's a big box that I'm talking about. Right.

Mike [00:13:26]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:13:26]:
You feel a little bit odd. You, you know, you feel a little bit different and you have to go back to your cause. Say, you know, I'm not drinking because of health reasons or whatever it is or my belief system or whatever. Right. But then you have to stand behind that.

Mike [00:13:39]:
Right. But I don't see, then you can't feel alone if you stand behind it.

Eldar [00:13:42]:
Correct.

Mike [00:13:43]:
Then you had a situation actually similar to what you described.

Eldar [00:13:46]:
Okay.

Mike [00:13:47]:
You know.

Eldar [00:13:47]:
Yeah. So maybe you could share it. Maybe we can discuss.

Mike [00:13:49]:
Yeah, sure. It's, it's a funny one. I went to a trip and I. Yeah. With like eight or nine people.

Eldar [00:13:56]:
Mm hmm.

Mike [00:13:57]:
Like a all guys trip. And every single guy was doing coke.

Eldar [00:14:04]:
Mm hmm.

Mike [00:14:05]:
I was the only one who's not. And they were doing it all day, like non stop partying, doing coke. But I was drinking.

Eldar [00:14:12]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:14:12]:
I was chilling with them on that level. When they were doing the coke stuff, I was like, yeah, I'm not, I'm not gonna do it. I'm not, it's not for me, whatever. So that was like an example. But then something I don't, I don't, I don't remember now how I felt about it, but because I was, you know, drinking, I guess I was, like, chilling. But I was also probably more, I've never hung around people who were doing coke. So I was observing what they were doing. So it was interesting to me, like, watching them how, like, people were getting emotional, like, y'all love you, bro.

Mike [00:14:40]:
Like, you know, these kind of things.

Eldar [00:14:41]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:14:41]:
So I wasn't partaking in that, but it was funny to, you know, to kind of observe them. So I don't think I felt lonely. But towards the end of the trip, maybe, like, you know, more than halfway in. Yeah, no problem. More than halfway in. I also stopped drinking.

Eldar [00:15:01]:
Oh, really?

Mike [00:15:02]:
Yes. Because what happen was I got really drunk one night.

Eldar [00:15:05]:
Oh, yeah.

Mike [00:15:06]:
And I felt like shit. And I was like, yo, like, this is dead. Like, I had enough of this. I don't want to drink.

Eldar [00:15:12]:
Mm hmm.

Mike [00:15:12]:
So then I wasn't drinking. I wasn't doing coke.

Eldar [00:15:15]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:15:15]:
So you're still there.

Eldar [00:15:16]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:15:17]:
But I guess I did because I did do loneliness, because I'll tell you what started happening. They were partying at night, drinking, doing drugs, whatever. I was with them chilling every night. But in the mornings, I'll wake up early because I'm not hungover on anything. So I would go and I would go alone.

Eldar [00:15:36]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:15:36]:
Sit at the bar, smoke cigarettes, drink coffee for, like, 2 hours and read.

Eldar [00:15:41]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:15:42]:
You know, this is very funny story. Right? Like, it's a funny situation. But. But that's what happened. I I guess you could say I was in. I wasn't. I didn't feel like I was lonely.

Eldar [00:15:52]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:15:52]:
Because I was doing something that I realized, like, yo, going.

Eldar [00:15:55]:
You were standing behind your truth.

Mike [00:15:57]:
Stand on my truth.

Eldar [00:15:57]:
You said, listen, this is not healthy for me. I don't want to do this anymore.

Mike [00:16:00]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:16:00]:
Therefore, you picked something up and you.

Toliy [00:16:02]:
No, but, no, but I think the reality, like, is the objective reality still that there was, like, he was lonely, he was alone.

Eldar [00:16:09]:
I'm not sure if he was lonely.

Mike [00:16:11]:
I didn't feel like I was lonely because I was genuinely loving that thing that I was doing alone in the morning for himself, for myself, because I believed in it.

Eldar [00:16:19]:
Correct. He stood behind, like I said, like I said, I gave you those examples about if you're standing behind the truth.

Mike [00:16:25]:
Yes.

Eldar [00:16:26]:
You know what I'm saying? You stand. You stand strong behind, and you're not alone. You know, you have reasons as to why you're doing what you're doing. Now, if Mike threw a fit, let's just say one night, he told everybody, guys, don't drink, don't smoke, don't do coke. You know what I mean? This is bad for you. I'm done with this, you know, and I I hate it that you guys do it. You know what I mean? If you do that kind of a fit. Right.

Eldar [00:16:48]:
And then stormed out of the room. You know what I mean? I think that Mike would have probably felt a level of loneliness because it wasn't the right thing to do.

Mike [00:16:56]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:16:57]:
He still accepted them.

Mike [00:16:59]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:16:59]:
He didn't give him a lecture. Right. He pulled out and said, this is what I want to do for myself. I'd like to do this for x, y, and z reasons. He stood behind those reasons, and then he was able to enjoy the morning by himself. He was alone, but he wasn't lonely. Correct.

Mike [00:17:13]:
Yeah, no, that I didn't feel lonely. I was enjoying what I was doing. I was extracting a lot of grief from it.

Eldar [00:17:19]:
Correct.

Mike [00:17:20]:
You know?

Eldar [00:17:20]:
Correct.

Mike [00:17:22]:
So that was my example about it.

Eldar [00:17:23]:
That's a very good example.

Mike [00:17:25]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:17:25]:
Yeah. It's a very good example. I was trying to come up with a fake one, but this is a very good example.

Mike [00:17:30]:
A live one.

Eldar [00:17:31]:
A live one, yeah. Very interesting.

Mike [00:17:33]:
Yeah, yeah.

Toliy [00:17:33]:
It just seems like. It just seems like that. Like you could do stuff, like alone but not feel lonely.

Mike [00:17:41]:
Yeah, correct.

Eldar [00:17:42]:
And I think that's the key.

Mike [00:17:44]:
That is the key. I think.

Eldar [00:17:45]:
I think that is the key. And then what I'm saying is that if you're. If you're.

Toliy [00:17:48]:
But are we saying then, for example, like, if he was doing what he was enjoying, was there still feelings of, like, you wish more people were there.

Eldar [00:17:57]:
With you at that point? I don't think he cared. He was empowered.

Mike [00:18:00]:
No, no, I'm gonna speak for you. Yeah, no, I was empowered. Yeah. I felt. I felt great because I realized something that was bringing me pain. And I said, I'm not gonna do this. And I did something that brought me pleasure, which is drinking coffee and smoking cigarettes and reading a book that I really love.

Eldar [00:18:21]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's. There was a stance behind the truth.

Mike [00:18:26]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:18:27]:
That works for you.

Mike [00:18:28]:
And I'm saying I don't. Probably didn't process it that way at the time.

Eldar [00:18:31]:
Uh huh.

Mike [00:18:32]:
You know, I don't think I did this long time ago, but.

Eldar [00:18:35]:
But it's funny how that example came about.

Mike [00:18:36]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:18:37]:
Like you remembered about that example.

Mike [00:18:39]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:18:39]:
Because I was trying to describe this exact thing.

Mike [00:18:41]:
Yes.

Eldar [00:18:41]:
To stand behind what you believe.

Mike [00:18:43]:
Yes.

Eldar [00:18:43]:
In disagreeing of others, but be okay with it.

Mike [00:18:46]:
And.

Eldar [00:18:46]:
And you won't feel lonely, however, if you do. Right. And you're not standing behind the truth if you, you know, like I said, like, if you screamed and had a match with them screaming match with them.

Mike [00:18:54]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:18:54]:
Right. Then there could be a different type of feeling. And I think that you can fall into the state of loneliness. Right.

Mike [00:19:02]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:19:04]:
Because you're not. You might not particularly think that you're right. What do you think? Totally seems like you are your eyes giving away a lot of.

Mike [00:19:13]:
He might be lonely right now. He might be lonely right now.

Eldar [00:19:18]:
I don't disagree with it.

Toliy [00:19:19]:
Yeah. Yeah. No, that makes sense to me. I mean, I said that.

Eldar [00:19:25]:
Okay. Yeah. So then how and what the next question would be, right, is how and what mental condition would contribute to loneliness? What are some things that do contribute. Contribute to actual loneliness?

Mike [00:19:38]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:19:40]:
I am talking about our prolonged state of loneliness where you just feel like, you know, like, hey, like I misunderstood or, you know, I'm alone in this.

Mike [00:19:50]:
What, what came to mind? I don't know. It probably. I'm not sure it's gonna make sense. But what came to mind, you know, because things that I was thinking about, if you are empowered, I don't think you can ever be alone or lonely.

Eldar [00:20:08]:
Or experience these prolonged states of loneliness.

Mike [00:20:11]:
Yeah, I don't think so.

Eldar [00:20:12]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:20:14]:
Because your own thoughts, once you observe them, and then, I don't know, maybe you want to call it think about or more internal problem solve. You're never alone, you know, in a way.

Eldar [00:20:29]:
So what does that state? What does that state if you're not alone or experiencing state of loneliness, what are you experiencing that. What are you trying to describe?

Mike [00:20:39]:
I think it's. I feel like it's something to do with empowerment. Power meant, you know, it's kind of like saying, like, I don't need anybody or anything, or maybe I don't need anybody to kind of make me happy because I'm happy with myself on my own, you know? But I always enjoy company, you know, like, it's like, in a paradoxical way. I don't know.

Eldar [00:21:06]:
It is a paradoxical way, almost. It's almost having the ability to both.

Mike [00:21:10]:
Yeah. Yeah. It's kind of like that. Trying to understand, like, phrase a little bit better, but that's kind of how it feels. I. The way I'm thinking.

Eldar [00:21:23]:
Are you still not answering the question, though?

Mike [00:21:25]:
Is loneliness an indication of a underlying mental condition?

Eldar [00:21:29]:
I'm leaning towards no, because it's the underlying mental condition that is the indication.

Mike [00:21:34]:
Causes, causes.

Eldar [00:21:35]:
Causes loneliness.

Mike [00:21:36]:
Oh, yeah. If you. Empowerment thing. If you're not empowered.

Eldar [00:21:39]:
Uh huh.

Mike [00:21:39]:
You're gonna be lonely.

Eldar [00:21:40]:
Yeah. But you're not answering what's, what's the underlying mental condition?

Mike [00:21:44]:
Not being empowered.

Eldar [00:21:46]:
Not being empowered.

Mike [00:21:47]:
Not believing in yourself.

Eldar [00:21:48]:
Yeah, but you're not giving me, like, you're giving me like, general things, right?

Mike [00:21:52]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:21:53]:
Like, what's the, what's, what are certain things that can cause loneliness? Well, you know, for a long period.

Mike [00:21:59]:
Of loneliness, what are certain things that can cause loneliness?

Eldar [00:22:03]:
Yeah, the mental. What are some mental conditions?

Mike [00:22:05]:
Mental conditions, right.

Eldar [00:22:07]:
Yeah. Don't say not being good, not being kind. You can't say those things. Not being empowered, you know?

Mike [00:22:12]:
Yeah, yeah.

Eldar [00:22:12]:
I want actual, you know, you giving me the opposite of good stuff. Yeah, it sounds like, right, yeah.

Toliy [00:22:20]:
But does it have to be where mental conditions are causing the loneliness? Or is it like, like non shared mental conditions can cause the loneliness?

Eldar [00:22:31]:
See, you said two different things here.

Toliy [00:22:34]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:22:35]:
Right. I think first thing that happens in, you know, in our minds where I think it first happens in our minds alone and then it can be shared. Right. So. I know, but I know what he's saying.

Mike [00:22:48]:
He's saying that, um, like, if you're.

Toliy [00:22:50]:
Experiencing friction in life, you're under the wrong impression. Whatever it is, you're wrong about something, you're right. Whatever it is, if you, it just clicks. If.

Eldar [00:23:00]:
Yeah, yeah. Okay. If you're under the wrong impression and you share with somebody, however, it is not solved, you're still lonely. If it's shared and it's solved, you're no longer lonely. It has to get solved, otherwise you're in it.

Mike [00:23:17]:
If it's open, you're alone. Yeah. Yes, I see what you're saying, but.

Toliy [00:23:21]:
Can you be together in the shit?

Eldar [00:23:23]:
With who?

Toliy [00:23:24]:
With the person that you share it with.

Eldar [00:23:26]:
Impossible.

Toliy [00:23:27]:
Why not?

Eldar [00:23:28]:
Well, because the person doesn't share it.

Toliy [00:23:30]:
But if they are sharing it with you, they're also in the shit?

Mike [00:23:32]:
What if you're in a relationship and you're, and you're in love, but then you have a fight and you fall out of love?

Eldar [00:23:37]:
Hold on a second, you gotta give me too much better words. You said if, you have to describe the dynamic, because I know what you're trying to introduce. Sharon. Yeah, I get it, I get that, but I'm not sure how synchronized the suffering is in the moment of the experiences of two very different individuals.

Toliy [00:23:56]:
Yeah, but if two different individuals can document and kind of share their experiences, and people are vibing off of the, those bad experiences, right. Then, like, it's, it's shared and they don't feel like, alone in that kind.

Eldar [00:24:10]:
Of battle, what are they feeling? Camaraderie.

Toliy [00:24:14]:
Well, yeah, like Pete, like they say, for example, like, you know, like. Oh, like. Well, yeah, yeah, yes. But it's also like, they're like, oh, don't. Don't hold all of it internally. Like, go to this group and, like, you don't have to be alone. Right.

Eldar [00:24:28]:
You say that.

Toliy [00:24:29]:
I like. By just sharing it and having other people be like, yeah, you know what? Like, I feel that same shit. Right.

Eldar [00:24:36]:
For the moment. Yeah, I know what you're saying. I'm having the problem with the fact that this person is not stuck with you at the hip.

Toliy [00:24:44]:
Mm hmm.

Eldar [00:24:45]:
And you're constantly sharing the back and forth.

Toliy [00:24:47]:
Well, it just depend on how often you communicate that.

Eldar [00:24:50]:
You know what? I still think that, uh, you know.

Toliy [00:24:53]:
If you're talking every day, can't you, then I not feel, like, alone in the battle?

Eldar [00:24:59]:
No, because. Because what's happening if you're talking every day, there's an attempt, and the attempt to solve it is the antidote to loneliness.

Toliy [00:25:07]:
Yeah, that's the sharing.

Eldar [00:25:10]:
No, that's attempt. No, it's an attempt to fix it.

Toliy [00:25:13]:
Just sharing.

Eldar [00:25:14]:
Yeah. No, because ultimately you're not just sharing. Not just saying stuff without wanting feedback, without having.

Toliy [00:25:20]:
If you're sharing, then you can't feel lonely. Right.

Eldar [00:25:23]:
For, like, for the moment being. Yes, you can say that.

Toliy [00:25:27]:
Okay.

Eldar [00:25:28]:
However, does not mean that, you know, like, you're not actually lonely, because I think that if you, if you don't actually solve the underlying issue, that the underlying issue you continue to have by yourself and.

Toliy [00:25:39]:
Yeah. What if you believe that this issue is not a solvable one?

Eldar [00:25:45]:
Despair.

Toliy [00:25:46]:
Well, no, then you're.

Eldar [00:25:47]:
Well, oh, no, no, no. I know. What do you mean?

Toliy [00:25:49]:
If it's a, like, like someone might be feeling something, and then they're like, yeah, this kind of sucks, but I can't do anything about it. And they just continue to talk and.

Eldar [00:25:59]:
Complain that you're describing a very lonely person can.

Toliy [00:26:04]:
Yeah, but can that person then not be lonely?

Eldar [00:26:07]:
I'm not sure if that's possible.

Mike [00:26:09]:
Yeah, because then it comes into the equation. Are you alone and you're alone with that, with. With being wrong or you alone and you with the truth? Because then you're not.

Toliy [00:26:17]:
No, but you don't. At that point, if you get to that point, you no longer are in a battle for right or wrong. You're just in, like, existence.

Eldar [00:26:27]:
Yeah, but what type of existence is it?

Toliy [00:26:29]:
Well, whatever kind it is, it doesn't have to be a lonely one.

Eldar [00:26:33]:
Yeah, but you're saying it's not a battle for right or wrong. Sure, you might not be looking for the truth, but nonetheless, you might be feeling something bad or good, and that's a battle for right and wrong out of itself.

Toliy [00:26:43]:
Well, no, if you're. If you're past that point of feeling, if it's bad or good because you have a problem. That's what I'm saying.

Eldar [00:26:50]:
I mean, yeah, if you pass that point, then you don't have a problem. Yeah.

Mike [00:26:55]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:26:55]:
So there's no condition.

Toliy [00:26:56]:
No, but what if a condition is accepted as what? Like, just accept it as, like, this is just the reality of things.

Eldar [00:27:04]:
Then what? You're saying that then if they shared.

Toliy [00:27:07]:
Enough, they may not feel alone because it's just a shared thing that it's happening that you can't do anything about. So I don't understand how you could still be lonely if.

Eldar [00:27:17]:
If that thing is no longer affecting you. I can see how that that can be it.

Toliy [00:27:21]:
Well, no, you're saying that it could be still affecting you. Just. You could just vocalize, you know, complaining about it or just talking about it or, like, itching about it and other people be like, yeah, that shit fucking sucks. You know, I get that too. So stuff like that. But it is what it is. Why do you have to still be lonely?

Eldar [00:27:42]:
Okay, fine. If you think, okay, what you're doing is you pacifying the loneliness with distraction.

Toliy [00:27:50]:
Well, no. You're coming to terms with a shitty situation. No, just being just like, this is part of it.

Eldar [00:27:58]:
This part you're saying, is that, okay, cool. Like, this is part of it. It is what it is, and. But I'll invite these individuals who will agree with this. Right. And I'm no longer alone. Even though that what you're experiencing is by yourself.

Toliy [00:28:11]:
Yeah, I think maybe the requirements to the loneliness is being is like suffering from something and not knowing what to do about it and, like, actively feeling that.

Eldar [00:28:26]:
See, I'm not sure if that's the thing. Like, you keep. Keep bringing the example of you could keep sharing it every day. Like. Like, the prolonged states of loneliness doesn't have to be. It doesn't have to be like, you know, like, as long as they're consistent. Like, you're not 24/7 stuck at the hip with the individual. You know what I'm saying?

Toliy [00:28:44]:
So what. What does a prolonged state of loneliness look like?

Eldar [00:28:47]:
I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I can't define it with time zones or timelines, but it's something that's ongoing, I think.

Toliy [00:28:54]:
No, but what is happening during this time? What doesn't? What is an individual feeling for a.

Eldar [00:28:58]:
Prolonged state of loneliness, I would probably say start with a confusion.

Toliy [00:29:04]:
Okay.

Eldar [00:29:04]:
Right.

Toliy [00:29:06]:
But it just needs to be conscious confusion, right?

Eldar [00:29:10]:
No, no, not necessarily. No, I don't think so.

Toliy [00:29:12]:
It could be unconscious.

Eldar [00:29:13]:
You kind of like confuse. You kind of don't know what to do.

Toliy [00:29:16]:
But how can you be unconscious? Like, how could you be unconsciously confused but lonely?

Eldar [00:29:24]:
Because I think that's, like I said, I think the confusion comes first and then the loneliness follows.

Toliy [00:29:30]:
So you think that lonely is not a.

Eldar [00:29:33]:
You're first confused.

Toliy [00:29:35]:
Right.

Eldar [00:29:36]:
What I'm saying is consciously unconscious. I don't know what's the difference between the two? Maybe you can explain it. Okay. Because of the fact that you're confused, you're not sure of what to do and how to do it. Right. Therefore, certain steps don't be taken for long periods of time. If those steps continue to accumulate to not be taken. Right.

Eldar [00:29:55]:
You're in that state of confusion. It prolongs and makes you feel alone within that state of not taking the steps because the problem is not actually being solved.

Toliy [00:30:05]:
But why do you have to, why, why does the loneliness have to happen?

Eldar [00:30:09]:
I don't know if it has to happen. I just think that it's probably a result of some of these. I'm trying to find out that some of the conditions, mental conditions. Right.

Toliy [00:30:17]:
So you're saying that you're not in these things. You're not guaranteed to feel lonely?

Eldar [00:30:22]:
No, no, I just don't.

Toliy [00:30:23]:
You just have a chance of being lonely.

Eldar [00:30:24]:
There's a specific, I think, mental conditions that can probably get you to feel. It's feeling lonely. Yeah.

Toliy [00:30:30]:
And what are those?

Eldar [00:30:33]:
I don't know. I just want to put the question on the board. Maybe you can help me find out what are some underlying mental conditions that trigger.

Mike [00:30:42]:
Right.

Eldar [00:30:44]:
A state of loneliness. I'm thinking confusion is one of those. Because you're confused as what to do. Right. And how to do it. All. Right. Because you're not taking steps into solving the issue.

Eldar [00:30:56]:
Because you're confused. Right. You find yourself in the state of some kind of a state. I'm trying to, I'm trying to link that state to slowly become a lonely state where you're, there's no action, there's no doing. Right. And you find yourself like, oh, shit. Like, what's happening here? You're not happy with the state.

Toliy [00:31:14]:
Yeah, but see, I feel like. Or do you guys feel that, like with loneliness there also is some kind of like a connection with fear?

Eldar [00:31:26]:
It could be fear. Fear could be a mental condition. Yeah, I do.

Mike [00:31:28]:
Guys, would you guys say underlying mental condition. Would you guys say that being under the wrong impression is another way of saying underlying mental condition?

Eldar [00:31:37]:
It's one of those, you know, I think like anger can be that. You know what I'm saying? Wrongdoing can be that can trigger these types of states. You know what I mean? If you did something wrong and, you know, like you don't know how to find forgiveness, you don't know how to ask for, you know, you know, apologize for the thing that you did. Right. You're ostracized from that community, that society, you know?

Toliy [00:31:57]:
I don't. The way I'm thinking about it now is I don't think that being under the wrong impression is a mental condition. I think whatever reason you are under the wrong impression is the mental condition.

Mike [00:32:08]:
Yeah, but you, that's a more specific thing. Probably why you're under the wrong impression. That'll tell you what condition you have. But.

Toliy [00:32:16]:
Well, that would be the condition.

Mike [00:32:18]:
Yeah, but in general, an online mental condition is that when you're under wrong impression on what's happening?

Toliy [00:32:24]:
No, I think being under the wrong impression is a result of a mental condition.

Mike [00:32:28]:
Mmm. Okay. Yeah. It's the chicken or the egg.

Eldar [00:32:31]:
Yeah. Yeah.

Toliy [00:32:33]:
Like if you have a mental condition, you are then going to be under the wrong impression.

Eldar [00:32:38]:
See, I'm not sure because sometimes you can be under the wrong impression and then the mental condition happens because you under the wrong impression, if you got.

Toliy [00:32:46]:
The matter the wrong impression. Can you be under the wrong impression without a mental condition?

Eldar [00:32:51]:
Right.

Toliy [00:32:51]:
It's like, it's like an inability.

Eldar [00:32:53]:
Yes, yes. Because your senses can, can play a trick on you.

Toliy [00:32:57]:
So then you're yours. Yep.

Eldar [00:32:58]:
Then you're, you're not. You know, there's something going to be.

Toliy [00:33:01]:
Wrong before you get the wrong impression.

Eldar [00:33:05]:
I'm under. A lot of people can be under the wrong impression of saying, okay, cool. Like the sun sets. Correct.

Mike [00:33:12]:
Okay.

Eldar [00:33:12]:
Does the sun actually set?

Toliy [00:33:14]:
Oh, just like the world moves a lot.

Eldar [00:33:18]:
Yeah. But a lot of people. Right. Especially before we found out that we actually rotating around the sun. The sun is not going anywhere. Yeah, it's stuck. It's stuck in space.

Toliy [00:33:27]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:33:28]:
We're the ones who are rotating around the sun. Yeah, but a lot of people were under the impression of that the sun is actually moving because that's what it looks like. This is our vision. We see it, it's moving down. We're not perceiving that the actual. We're the ones who are actually doing the movement.

Toliy [00:33:44]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:33:45]:
You know what I'm saying, I'm not sure if that's a mental condition. It's that result of a mental condition, or it's just a sense. All senses are deceiving us. We're under the wrong impression because.

Toliy [00:33:55]:
So we have.

Mike [00:33:56]:
But.

Eldar [00:33:56]:
Yeah, but until we find out the.

Toliy [00:33:57]:
Truth, we have the wrong. Yes. So we have the wrong senses.

Eldar [00:34:01]:
Yeah.

Toliy [00:34:02]:
Or, like, we're. There's gonna be something wrong before you get to the wrong impression. Right. Like, there has to be something wrong to begin with for you to get under the wrong impression.

Eldar [00:34:15]:
So in this sense, you say that it's not mental, but it's a sun. It's like your sense was off, eyesight was off.

Toliy [00:34:21]:
That's the condition. Yeah. Like, there's. Yeah.

Eldar [00:34:24]:
We're observing that the sun is moving down, right?

Mike [00:34:27]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:34:27]:
And we're making the conclusion that the sun moves, and we say sun setting.

Toliy [00:34:32]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:34:32]:
Sun is not setting. We have to change it. And say what? We rotated away from the sun, right?

Toliy [00:34:38]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:34:39]:
Correct.

Mike [00:34:40]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:34:41]:
You're gonna say something. Yes. We're saying that the impression is always after a particular condition, be it mental, physical. It's like a physical thing.

Toliy [00:34:55]:
Yeah. Because then that. Then we're saying that, like, if not, I feel like we're saying that being under the wrong impression is completely, like. Like, it's kind of how it's supposed to be. You know? I don't think it's supposed to be that we're supposed to be under the wrong impression. I think there's things that happen that lead us to be under the wrong impression. I'm not, like. Like, I don't think that we were meant to be under the wrong impression.

Eldar [00:35:20]:
So then what happened?

Toliy [00:35:22]:
Well, I think that, like, the particular levels of, like, understanding and the way that we learn.

Eldar [00:35:32]:
And you're saying that we're predisposed to having the wrong tools. Yeah, I think that you see the world for what it is.

Toliy [00:35:42]:
Yeah. I think. Because, I mean, from my understanding, humans are probably the most conscious beings or have potentials for the most. Right. I think that also puts them to have potentials for the least.

Eldar [00:35:57]:
Okay.

Toliy [00:35:58]:
You know?

Eldar [00:35:58]:
Yeah.

Toliy [00:35:59]:
So I do think that there's a great, great chance that we could be under the wrong impression, because in the. In the natural, like, curiosity, like, in the natural pursuit of, like, curiosity and, like, finding out and, like. And, like, learning that all. I think all humans have from the day they're born, you know, babies, everything. Everybody's curious. Everybody wants to, like, you know, learn and find out and, like.

Eldar [00:36:27]:
Yeah.

Toliy [00:36:27]:
Progress and stuff like that. There's going to be pitfalls because of just. Yeah. Just like, how we learn. How we're taught to learn what conditions we're learning in. What are we told to as truth be? Like, there is not, like, I don't think that when you're young and you're impressionable. Right. That there's a lot of things that you make the determining call of whether this is.

Eldar [00:36:56]:
They're not open ended. They're all closed ended.

Toliy [00:36:59]:
Yeah. Like, I think that you get told things.

Eldar [00:37:01]:
Yeah. Yeah.

Toliy [00:37:01]:
And you get told things and you're not, like, I think the proper way is that, like, if you're gonna be telling someone something. Right, you should, beforehand, probably, like, advise them that they should, like. Yeah. Like, anyone telling something to somebody should, like, give them the disclaimer that they could be wrong. And you should think for yourself and make sure that you challenge and. And. And, like, you know, do all those things.

Eldar [00:37:31]:
Yeah.

Toliy [00:37:31]:
Right.

Eldar [00:37:32]:
Yeah.

Toliy [00:37:32]:
Obviously that is not done in society.

Eldar [00:37:35]:
Yeah.

Toliy [00:37:35]:
Just in general. Right. So there's a lot of people telling people a lot of things.

Eldar [00:37:39]:
Absolute truth.

Toliy [00:37:40]:
And those people. Yeah. And those concepts and idea and, like, ideas and stuff. Right. Those are taken as absolute truth. And when those are taken for absolute truth without the thought of, like, oh, this could be wrong. Or the thought of, like, let me think about this for myself. Or let me actually see.

Toliy [00:37:57]:
Because of that, you are absolutely set up for the wrong impression for probably more than 95% chance of every individual born into this world being under the wrong impression.

Mike [00:38:08]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:38:08]:
But you see, make a really argument saying that. Okay, cool. We're born with this. It seems like you're saying we passed on. We're being passed on this.

Toliy [00:38:16]:
Yes.

Eldar [00:38:16]:
So if we're being passed on this, you're still saying that, hey, we're. We're born with faculties that actually are not tainted, even though your argument states that we have tainted stuff first and then we perceive things wrong.

Toliy [00:38:31]:
I just think that, like, probably with mankind, because there's a natural, like, inclination for, like, curiosity and for learning, I think with that comes a natural naiveness that is, like, baked in to that. And because of that, there's gonna be an extremely high result of being under the wrong impression.

Mike [00:38:54]:
Fine.

Eldar [00:38:54]:
But you also question curiosity.

Toliy [00:38:56]:
Yes, but only because there's a, like, there's an attachment to learn. The naiveness comes because, I think, innate in some of us, like, in us, we know that there needs to be a certain amount of non questioning to get something, to learn something.

Eldar [00:39:19]:
I don't see how that's what's his name. An inherent behavior versus. I think it's a learned behavior.

Toliy [00:39:24]:
Naiveness.

Eldar [00:39:26]:
Yeah, yeah.

Toliy [00:39:28]:
Don't know. I just feel that like there's a lot told to us before we even know that we have the ability or the choice to think about it.

Mike [00:39:37]:
I agree.

Eldar [00:39:38]:
But nonetheless, it doesn't prove out the fact that we might actually have the faculty in order to deduce properly.

Toliy [00:39:44]:
Well, I think we do, but I think that, like, we just.

Eldar [00:39:48]:
Misguided.

Toliy [00:39:48]:
Yeah, yeah. Because of influence.

Eldar [00:39:50]:
Misguided because of the people are on the wrong impression.

Toliy [00:39:53]:
Yes. And I just. Loop continues.

Eldar [00:39:54]:
I agree with that.

Toliy [00:39:55]:
Until it doesn't, obviously, for certain individuals.

Eldar [00:39:58]:
I agree with that. But it still doesn't prove that the chicken is the egg question.

Mike [00:40:02]:
What.

Eldar [00:40:02]:
What comes first? Right. You say that, hey, like the reason why you have a wrong impression is because you have the wrong mental or physical in this case of senses. Right. Well, then you're saying that, hey, like, you're born kind of clean, but then we put this dirt on you. But we put the dirt on you because we have the wrong impressions. Right. Can you get the wrong impressions, is the question without the dirt, if you're clean?

Mike [00:40:30]:
One thing I thought about, I don't know if you guys can relate it to this, but how does this. If you guys believe in the soul, right? If you think about what, you know, what's said about the soul, how does that play into this whole thing? You know, if you. Yeah.

Eldar [00:40:46]:
Well, what would you think about it?

Mike [00:40:47]:
Like, well, if. What Socrates saying about the soul.

Eldar [00:40:51]:
Right?

Mike [00:40:52]:
And also the other Socrates in the movie, he said the way that he would question people. Right?

Eldar [00:41:02]:
The movie is called the Peaceful Warrior. By the way, there's a character called Sock.

Mike [00:41:07]:
Yes. The way that he would question people, he would make them ask questions. You know that. And they were able to find the answers inside.

Eldar [00:41:14]:
Within them.

Mike [00:41:15]:
Within them. And also Socrates, the real, you know, the real Socrates, he also. You were telling me something that he said that we are. We all have a soul. Right. And the way he proved it or something like that.

Eldar [00:41:28]:
Right?

Mike [00:41:28]:
You were telling me about this.

Eldar [00:41:30]:
Yeah. The way he proved it is he asked questions to individual where he said that, look, you know, he. This person who has no educational background.

Mike [00:41:38]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:41:38]:
He did not attend a math class.

Mike [00:41:40]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:41:40]:
So he could have never gotten this knowledge. And, you know, anywhere else we know this. So you ask him a series of questions with this, which this boy or this slave in this, in this particular story was able to deduce the answer. So he, you know, Socrates explained that this, his soul right here actually is not, is not creating this knowledge. It's recollecting the knowledge that's within it already.

Mike [00:42:04]:
Yes.

Toliy [00:42:05]:
But could you ask questions in such a way where you could teach an individual something while asking it?

Eldar [00:42:13]:
I'm not sure how you asked it, but I can double check with you. I don't remember. I would have to find out how.

Toliy [00:42:19]:
Yeah, because, like, like, I mean, I'm.

Eldar [00:42:20]:
Like, I know what you're talking about. I know what you're talking about. I mean, I'm leading questions. I know, I know. Yeah. I'm not sure if Socrates was. Was making that argument with leading questions now. Yeah, I think that he.

Eldar [00:42:30]:
Yeah.

Toliy [00:42:31]:
Or, like, for example, like. Or there's, like. No, there's four apples.

Eldar [00:42:34]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:42:35]:
Right.

Eldar [00:42:35]:
Yeah.

Toliy [00:42:37]:
And you know, someone who doesn't know that, you know, if you just tell them that you're taking away, you know, this. Or, like, like, there's a way where you could be asking questions.

Eldar [00:42:45]:
Correct.

Toliy [00:42:46]:
And teaching through them.

Eldar [00:42:47]:
Yeah, I get it. I know what you're saying.

Toliy [00:42:49]:
So is he saying that all the information is within you and you're just.

Eldar [00:42:54]:
Recollecting it, so then there's no such thing as learning. That's what he thought. Yeah. That the soul already, already knows everything that he needs to know about the world. Right.

Toliy [00:43:04]:
I feel like that would be difficult to prove.

Eldar [00:43:06]:
Well, he makes an attempt at it, but I'm gonna, like I said, this is an interesting story. So we definitely have to read about it, you know, and see how that came about and where it landed, you know? So. Yeah. So why, how is that tie, you saying?

Mike [00:43:20]:
I just thought about the thing. Like, one, if you have a slick. I was just thinking about my process, right. When I, when I, you know, think about things and bounce ideas.

Eldar [00:43:29]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:43:29]:
Like, who am I bouncing off the deals off, right.

Eldar [00:43:31]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:43:31]:
You know, I'm bouncing it out. Want to call it my soul. Right. You know, for. Maybe for like, you know, just sounds good now, but maybe that's what is. I don't know. But the question is if you understand that there's actually another being that lives within you.

Eldar [00:43:49]:
Mm hmm.

Mike [00:43:50]:
And you constantly able to tap into it and engage in it.

Eldar [00:43:54]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:43:55]:
Can you be lonely and can you develop on a mental condition? Or is it because we're not tapping into the souls that we have the underlying.

Eldar [00:44:04]:
But you're also assuming that you're saying that, hey, like, if you tap in, into whatever you tried trying to tap into the soul or the true self, you obviously it's. This is the truth. Right. This is good.

Mike [00:44:13]:
That's good for us.

Eldar [00:44:15]:
You know what I mean? Yeah. So, yeah. Based on that, I think the type of loneliness that we're describing here is a certain level of pain that we get from being lonely, experiencing this loneliness. Right. Some sort of despair. I'm sort of maybe hopelessness, maybe. Right. You know?

Mike [00:44:36]:
But if you were given such a great tool.

Eldar [00:44:38]:
Right.

Mike [00:44:38]:
You were born with a great tool.

Eldar [00:44:39]:
Yes. So, yeah.

Mike [00:44:41]:
And then you don't use it. How would you feel? Consciously, subconsciously, well done. Wouldn't that cause you to feel like that? Right. Yeah, I would think so, you know. Yeah. Again, it's very like, you know, speculative, imaginative kind of thing, but that's kind of just what I thought about, you know. Yeah. It would be pretty painful, I think, if you knew where all the answers were, but you didn't go and get them there to all your problems.

Eldar [00:45:03]:
Well, yeah, yeah. If. You know, but I think that in the moment of these types of states, I think you don't think you're, to a level, confused.

Mike [00:45:10]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:45:10]:
You are.

Mike [00:45:10]:
You are.

Eldar [00:45:11]:
You know what I mean?

Mike [00:45:12]:
But.

Eldar [00:45:12]:
Of what to do. Because if you did know, you would be acting on it.

Mike [00:45:16]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:45:16]:
But. Because you're kind of stagnant. Right. And loneliness. Right. Being lonely.

Mike [00:45:20]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:45:21]:
With yourself or with your own thoughts, you're trying to figure it out, you know, you feel you experiencing a certain level of pain.

Mike [00:45:28]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:45:29]:
Or discomfort, at least, you know, for sure in that type of state. So, yeah. I don't know, man. You know. Is loneliness an indication of an underlying condition? Loneliness is the result of underlying mental condition. But what are some things that lead us there? What type of mental conditions? What kind of states? Mental states.

Mike [00:45:52]:
I mean, there's a lot of different things. There's a lot of different people suffer, I guess, with a lot of different problems.

Eldar [00:45:59]:
Can you talk about your. Your example, Tony?

Toliy [00:46:02]:
In regards to what exactly?

Eldar [00:46:04]:
Loneliness, like you said. Hey, I felt lonely. Right?

Toliy [00:46:07]:
Mm hmm.

Eldar [00:46:08]:
Can you try to examine it maybe and give us some nuggets there of like, hey, like, this is what I'm feeling. This is what's going on. It's obviously, it's not. It's not pleasant experience. Correct. When you talk about your.

Toliy [00:46:22]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:46:23]:
Right. So how you. How do you get there?

Toliy [00:46:25]:
Yeah, I guess. Yeah, I guess. Like the. The feeling itself is made is maybe. Is like you're in some kind of conflict.

Eldar [00:46:34]:
Yeah.

Toliy [00:46:36]:
And yes, you're in a state of conflict and you feel that like you maybe don't have all the right tools on your own to combat it.

Eldar [00:46:45]:
You're in a state of conflict, and you don't have tools to combat it.

Toliy [00:46:48]:
And you're maybe, like, consciously aware of that.

Eldar [00:46:51]:
Uh huh.

Toliy [00:46:51]:
And because of that, you feel loneliness as, like, a byproduct.

Eldar [00:46:57]:
Okay.

Toliy [00:46:58]:
And then when you, like, resolve that loneliness.

Eldar [00:47:00]:
Okay.

Toliy [00:47:01]:
You may feel more empowered.

Eldar [00:47:03]:
Yeah.

Toliy [00:47:05]:
Right.

Eldar [00:47:05]:
Yeah.

Toliy [00:47:06]:
Whether it's real empowered or not.

Eldar [00:47:08]:
Yeah. Just relieve that state of loneliness for the. For the moment being.

Mike [00:47:12]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:47:13]:
In your case, the example of anxiety.

Toliy [00:47:15]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:47:16]:
A state of anxiety. Right. That induces that.

Toliy [00:47:20]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:47:22]:
Yeah. I was thinking about my. My thing with love, you know, when you asked him for an example, and I thought how I used to feel lonely ness. Right. Or lonely because I wasn't in a relationship. Wasn't in love.

Eldar [00:47:34]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:47:34]:
Right. And what the underlying conditions were there.

Eldar [00:47:37]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:47:37]:
You know, and kind of how that, you know, was just thinking about it in my head, and I thought that was kind of interesting.

Eldar [00:47:44]:
And so what'd you come up with?

Mike [00:47:46]:
I was lonely. I was lonely because I was seeking some external forces to provide me with happiness.

Eldar [00:47:53]:
Validity.

Mike [00:47:54]:
Validity.

Eldar [00:47:55]:
Okay.

Mike [00:47:55]:
All kinds of different shit that I thought that somebody else was gonna give me to make me feel, like, whole, adequate. Happy. Adequate. But then. Now I think about it, that is interesting. That's impossible.

Eldar [00:48:08]:
So your thing was not anxiety. Obviously. Your thing was the love bug, I guess. No, no, it's something else. You said you were attached.

Mike [00:48:16]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:48:17]:
To a specific outcome because you didn't have self worth.

Toliy [00:48:23]:
No, I think that he was convinced that there's externals out there that would.

Eldar [00:48:28]:
Correct.

Toliy [00:48:28]:
Provide him with.

Eldar [00:48:29]:
Correct. To get. What was the condition? The underlying condition is self worth.

Toliy [00:48:34]:
Yeah. Okay.

Eldar [00:48:35]:
Correct. He was seeking validation from someone to tell him that he's worthy.

Toliy [00:48:46]:
That was probably one of the things.

Mike [00:48:48]:
There was a lot of things, you know, but, yeah. One of them for sure.

Eldar [00:48:53]:
So then untreated mental condition. Untreated mental condition. Guaranteed loneliness or no. Or some level of it. Not talking about, you know, I'm not talking about guys. I'm not talking about, like, the press.

Mike [00:49:06]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:49:07]:
Straight years. Like, those are crazy conditions.

Mike [00:49:09]:
Right.

Eldar [00:49:09]:
I'm talking about, like, you know, potential. The beginning. Catch it early. But is it the. Is it the. Are those mental conditions of the states that actually lead us to then become lonely and feel the states of loneliness, that confusion. You had a confusion state where you like, hey, I thought I was gonna get validity, right? Get validated here, get self worth if somebody else likes me.

Mike [00:49:36]:
Mm hmm. Yeah.

Eldar [00:49:38]:
You know what I mean? Prove you. Prove to yourself. You know what I mean? You were under the wrong impression there. And that. And that. Wrong impression. I was caught. That caused you essentially.

Eldar [00:49:50]:
Right. You said, hey, I'm lonely. Yeah, I see. Yours is. Yours is tied directly to a person. Right.

Mike [00:49:57]:
You were like, hey, yeah, I need.

Eldar [00:50:00]:
Someone, but I might. Now I'm alone. I'm literally alone, physically alone.

Mike [00:50:04]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:50:04]:
I don't have a person. Because you're attached. A very specific thing. Love. And love in a relationship, you need some other person to bounce off of.

Mike [00:50:13]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:50:14]:
And because you didn't have it, and because you didn't have that, you experienced this. You experienced state of loneliness. So what else can we bring up? Bring up?

Mike [00:50:23]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:50:24]:
How's that been for you, by the way?

Mike [00:50:26]:
Well, it's been great.

Eldar [00:50:27]:
It's been great.

Mike [00:50:27]:
Yeah. I don't feel lonely anymore.

Eldar [00:50:29]:
Well, that's interesting.

Mike [00:50:30]:
Or I feel loneliness. Yeah. I feel great. Yeah.

Eldar [00:50:33]:
And how'd you combat that?

Mike [00:50:35]:
By seeing things for what they are.

Eldar [00:50:37]:
How'd you do that?

Mike [00:50:38]:
How did I do that? Doing a lot of drugs? No.

Eldar [00:50:43]:
Well, then you have to keep chiming in so we could tell you.

Mike [00:50:46]:
Yeah, I guess loneliness or anything, really. Essentially. I guess just to say it as a general statement, blank statement. When you don't live in accordance with the truth, these things are going to happen. I wasn't living in accordance with the truth. I was suffering. Not probably just loneliness, other things. I made an attempt to align myself with the truth, and now I don't have that condition anymore.

Mike [00:51:12]:
You know, that's one.

Eldar [00:51:13]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:51:14]:
So underlying men's, the conditions come from, again, doing the, I don't know, wrong thing, quote unquote, I don't know.

Eldar [00:51:23]:
Yeah, I agree with you 100%. That's definitely a general blanket statement.

Mike [00:51:27]:
Blanket statement, 100%.

Eldar [00:51:28]:
However, I do think that there is a timeline for loneliness. To actually experience loneliness to. For what it's, you know, has built in. In it, you know? And I think it has. You have to have a repetitive, repetitive, faulty understanding of reality. Right.

Mike [00:51:47]:
Loneliness only exists because it's to combat being under the wrong impression from other forces by kind of putting it on us. I think if we were taught from age to tap into ourselves, into the truth.

Eldar [00:52:02]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:52:02]:
Loneliness would not exist.

Eldar [00:52:04]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:52:04]:
My. That's what I think.

Eldar [00:52:06]:
Yeah. Yeah. You know, so have you experienced loneliness the first day you got anxiety in general? Yeah.

Toliy [00:52:14]:
I mean, I don't know.

Eldar [00:52:16]:
You know what I mean?

Toliy [00:52:17]:
Yeah. But like.

Eldar [00:52:18]:
Yeah, I think that, like, you've. Can't. You came maybe with certain things that you're experiencing to the end of the rope, and now you start to feel alone and lonely. And that state is like, you know, worrying you. Right. Obviously, like, hey, like, oh, shit. You know what I mean? Like, I'm in this by myself. This is scary.

Eldar [00:52:33]:
I don't want to be here kind of thing. Right. But I think that you needed to experience that for a certain amount of time. Right. For it to accumulate to then to be this acute where you really felt what that state can really do with the type of detrimental effects it can have on your mental health. So there's a time frame that I think you have to keep experiencing the mental condition, you know, in order for it to then translate into a state of loneliness.

Mike [00:53:02]:
Yeah, probably, yeah. You're trying to extract something from the wrong place for more time. You know, you'll be like. And if you don't change anything, you will experience loneliness. So.

Toliy [00:53:15]:
So then let me ask you this. Do you guys feel that, like, proper learning and proper, like, significant change happens when you can get to a point when you can experience much smaller doses of, whatever we want to call it, being under the wrong impression, doing the wrong thing so that you can have opportunities to combat it?

Eldar [00:53:45]:
Well, yeah.

Toliy [00:53:45]:
Because what happens is that when you're experiencing large doses of those things for.

Eldar [00:53:51]:
Long periods of time.

Toliy [00:53:52]:
For long periods of time.

Eldar [00:53:53]:
Yeah.

Toliy [00:53:53]:
You feel that, like, you can't do this too much. You're too tired, you're not strong enough.

Eldar [00:53:58]:
You're overwhelmed.

Toliy [00:53:58]:
You're overwhelmed. But if you could get to a point where it's still gonna happen, but in smaller doses where you have enough energy and, like, fight in you to. To combat that, that's when actual. The process of actual change starts to shift.

Eldar [00:54:19]:
Correct. And I'm not sure if you're experiencing loneliness anymore because it's not necessary. Teacher anymore. Right. It's not necessary to pain your mental pain. That's gonna tell you you're in the wrong area.

Toliy [00:54:29]:
Yeah. My question is just how do you get to a point which, I mean, it might be like, a little bit veering off topic, but now I'm curious about it, how do you get to a point where, where those large amounts or large doses of pain become smaller or feel like smaller ones, that you can do something about them and that you actually have the opportunity to change? What is the difference? Like, what happens in that kind of, like, cycle, you know, or transformation.

Eldar [00:55:09]:
Yeah. You're asking for the switch. When does the switch go on? Right. And how.

Mike [00:55:15]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:55:15]:
Right.

Toliy [00:55:16]:
What happens?

Eldar [00:55:17]:
Yeah, what happens? Actually? Yeah. Yeah.

Toliy [00:55:19]:
I mean, I feel like when I think about it in my situation.

Eldar [00:55:22]:
Yeah.

Toliy [00:55:23]:
I feel that it's more of, like, the way I'm looking at it is more of, like, when there is enough. When there is enough trust to combat.

Eldar [00:55:32]:
The unknown, what are you trusting? Who are you trusting, and what are you trusting?

Toliy [00:55:36]:
Well, when. When you're trusting, like, I guess a combination of the. The people who are, you know, helping you and the concepts that you're talking about. Like, you may not fully understand all those things. Yeah, but when there's some love, when. When there's enough level of trust.

Eldar [00:55:58]:
Yeah.

Toliy [00:55:59]:
Involved, you give pockets of trying to solve the issue in smaller doses.

Eldar [00:56:08]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Ultimately, yeah. I think that in the beginning, maybe stages, trusts can help if you have, you know, good friends who can hold you down, you know? But ultimately, I think that you'll turn the tide turns. When you start, like Mike said, you get empowered to then trust yourself. Right. To know, actually believe that. That what you have inside of you. Right.

Eldar [00:56:38]:
That you have inherently can lead you.

Mike [00:56:43]:
To the truth when you value living in accordance with the truth more than the way you were living.

Eldar [00:56:51]:
Yeah, but see, he's asking. He's saying trust. He wants. Wants to put the trust on other people.

Mike [00:56:55]:
Yeah, yeah, sure.

Eldar [00:56:57]:
I'll put my trust that you got this because I don't have the flashlight.

Mike [00:57:01]:
Yes, you have the flashlight.

Eldar [00:57:02]:
So guide me through this dark. Right.

Mike [00:57:04]:
Mm hmm.

Eldar [00:57:05]:
But ultimately, the flashlight then becomes. It's not our flashlight anymore.

Toliy [00:57:10]:
Over time.

Mike [00:57:11]:
Over time.

Eldar [00:57:11]:
Yeah, it becomes your flashlight.

Toliy [00:57:13]:
Yeah, but I'm talking about that initial.

Eldar [00:57:15]:
Oh, the initial. 100%. 100% the initial. I think trust is one of those things. I think. Is it always trust? Is it the only thing? Now that I'm thinking about it, like, is there something else? Like, what else can there be?

Mike [00:57:30]:
I mean, it's trust. It's courage. Right?

Eldar [00:57:32]:
Courage, you know? Yeah, but where does that come from?

Mike [00:57:36]:
They're different than trust. And courage is different.

Toliy [00:57:39]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:57:41]:
Trust is the belief. Courage is the action. No, courage to act.

Eldar [00:57:46]:
Trust is blind. Like, you know.

Mike [00:57:49]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:57:50]:
Like, I'm trusting. Like, my eyes are closed, and, like, I'm just gonna trust that you can.

Mike [00:57:54]:
See from the thing.

Eldar [00:57:56]:
There is a problem, I'm gonna fall into a mud.

Mike [00:57:58]:
But there. There is no. You can't go from zero to one.

Eldar [00:58:01]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:58:02]:
You might have to go from not in being empowered at all to being fully empowered. Part of that process is the trust and the courage, I think.

Eldar [00:58:10]:
But I'm not sure if courage comes in, comes in there with trust at first, I think courage might be later, maybe scared. Right. And you just have to trust I'm not sure if it's. You have to be courageous to.

Mike [00:58:27]:
Courage. Courage. Like, I guess what's courage doing? Doing the right thing. Doing.

Eldar [00:58:34]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:58:34]:
I don't know how to translate it to be courageous.

Eldar [00:58:37]:
Right. It's like, who has courage? Rather just look at our society stuff.

Mike [00:58:41]:
Courage.

Eldar [00:58:42]:
Firefighters. Right.

Mike [00:58:43]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:58:43]:
Firefighters say you have courage.

Mike [00:58:45]:
Mm hmm.

Toliy [00:58:46]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:58:47]:
Yeah.

Toliy [00:58:49]:
There is a certainty of there. There is a certain part, I think, of, like, a blindness or uncertainty in. In being courageous.

Mike [00:59:01]:
Anything. It is blindness, I think encourage.

Toliy [00:59:04]:
There has to be, there has to be a hundred percent, like, level of unsureness. I don't think that you can have any, like, I don't think that there could be a situation that you can.

Mike [00:59:16]:
Create right now that would, you may be blind and the consequences. But you're confident in the reasons why you're doing it, though.

Eldar [00:59:24]:
That's right.

Mike [00:59:24]:
So there's different. It's different, I think.

Eldar [00:59:26]:
Correct. I agree with that.

Mike [00:59:28]:
You're fully rooted in this is the right thing to do.

Eldar [00:59:30]:
Correct.

Mike [00:59:31]:
But you may be fearful about what can happen.

Eldar [00:59:33]:
You might not know. No. You're not fearful.

Mike [00:59:35]:
You might not fearful.

Eldar [00:59:36]:
Yeah. You're doing.

Mike [00:59:37]:
I know.

Eldar [00:59:37]:
You might not know.

Mike [00:59:38]:
You might not know what's gonna happen.

Toliy [00:59:39]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:59:40]:
So maybe that's the blind part.

Eldar [00:59:41]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:59:42]:
But you know exactly why you're doing it.

Eldar [00:59:43]:
And the courage propels you propose.

Mike [00:59:46]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:59:47]:
To do it regardless of the consequences.

Mike [00:59:50]:
Yeah.

Toliy [00:59:50]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:59:51]:
Trust is when you don't have the right, like knowledge. Right. Thoughts. Right. Does that make sense? You have to trust somebody else's knowledge and thoughts and ideas that what they're saying is right is they're not belong to you yet. You know, you don't write yet.

Eldar [01:00:07]:
Somebody else's. Yeah.

Mike [01:00:09]:
Somebody else.

Eldar [01:00:09]:
Yeah. It's somebody else's guidance. Guidance that you're taking. Because you can't rely on your own guidance yet.

Mike [01:00:15]:
Yes.

Eldar [01:00:16]:
Because you don't trust yourself. So you need to trust somebody else to take those first two couple of steps.

Mike [01:00:22]:
Right.

Eldar [01:00:23]:
You know what I'm saying? And after you've tasted like, oh, okay, cool, like, I got it. I get it now. Like, I can let go of your hand, I guess, walk behind you. I don't have to hold your hand anymore. Right. And then sooner or later, you don't even need that person.

Mike [01:00:36]:
Right.

Eldar [01:00:36]:
Because you know how to navigate whatever it is you're navigating. You're not blind anymore. So. Yeah, I don't know. Yeah. Trust, encourage. Yeah. Those two things, definitely.

Eldar [01:00:46]:
Uh, what else? To get that switch going.

Mike [01:00:52]:
Say the question again. What question? The question that we're trying to answer is, how do you do the switch?

Eldar [01:01:02]:
Yeah.

Toliy [01:01:02]:
Yeah. Like, what happens? What do you need to do to get something that feels overwhelming or, like.

Mike [01:01:12]:
Yeah, but again, I guess so are we saying that I got one more.

Eldar [01:01:15]:
It's big values. No, it's big.

Mike [01:01:19]:
Big.

Eldar [01:01:19]:
Love it.

Mike [01:01:20]:
I love it.

Eldar [01:01:21]:
You love this one?

Mike [01:01:22]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:01:22]:
Oh, my God.

Mike [01:01:23]:
Oh, no.

Eldar [01:01:26]:
It's big, bro.

Mike [01:01:27]:
Big.

Eldar [01:01:27]:
It opens all doors. It's crazy.

Mike [01:01:30]:
Really?

Eldar [01:01:30]:
It won't completely shock you? Like, you know, like, it's gonna click right away. Like, it's a bad. Duh. If you tap into this one. Holy shit. You can go far quick.

Toliy [01:01:45]:
This begin with a b?

Eldar [01:01:47]:
No, but it has a b in Ithoodae, and b is strong in it.

Toliy [01:02:00]:
That's a strong letter.

Mike [01:02:01]:
No, I'm telling you that be. It has a little bite to it.

Eldar [01:02:05]:
I think it's bigger, bro.

Mike [01:02:06]:
Big bite. Big bite.

Eldar [01:02:07]:
It has a w is big, right?

Mike [01:02:11]:
It's a big b. Yeah, bro.

Eldar [01:02:13]:
When I say it, you guys. You guys know this. Like, you guys constantly talk about this. This was a recurring subject and topic. Right? And I think this is another thing. It's huge, bro. Huge, bro.

Toliy [01:02:25]:
My guessing.

Mike [01:02:27]:
And think about it, bro.

Eldar [01:02:29]:
Think about it. You said. You said trust.

Mike [01:02:31]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:02:32]:
Courage. This one more. It's fucking good. Must turn off the fucking recording, bro, and save this for next. For next.

Mike [01:02:39]:
Holy shit.

Eldar [01:02:41]:
It's huge. It's huge, bro. It answers. It unlocks it all, bro. That's the path to victory, bro. It's. It's crazy, bro. And the b is stronger than humble.

Mike [01:02:53]:
That's right. Humble. Yeah, that's.

Eldar [01:02:57]:
That's right.

Mike [01:02:58]:
Yeah, we did talk about that. I forgot about that for a second. Yeah, that's probably the. You can't trust if you're not humble.

Eldar [01:03:07]:
Wow. So you see now you're talking crazy shit, because I also thought that which comes first of which is necessary for what? Why don't you trust somebody?

Mike [01:03:17]:
Cause you think you know better, bam. If you know better, how can you be humble?

Eldar [01:03:23]:
Bam.

Mike [01:03:24]:
Bam.

Eldar [01:03:25]:
Wow, yo.

Mike [01:03:26]:
Yeah, that is a big one. That's a huge one.

Eldar [01:03:29]:
Wow. Yo. You have to be humble, bro.

Mike [01:03:34]:
Yeah, well, remember we spoke about this? Yeah, we had a big topic about it.

Eldar [01:03:38]:
But before you can be humble, what do you have to say, bro? What do you have to admit to yourself?

Mike [01:03:45]:
I don't know.

Eldar [01:03:45]:
The original fucking sin that Socrates always talks about.

Mike [01:03:48]:
I don't know.

Eldar [01:03:49]:
Said that. I don't know.

Mike [01:03:51]:
Yeah. How do you actually do that, genuinely? Bam. Yeah.

Eldar [01:03:58]:
You know what? I'm saying, I don't know. I actually don't know. That's huge, bro. I think that's huge.

Mike [01:04:05]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:04:07]:
You know, is the beast strong in it or no? Humble.

Toliy [01:04:11]:
Yeah. It even has, like, a tone.

Eldar [01:04:14]:
It has a tone.

Toliy [01:04:16]:
Like a vibrating sound.

Eldar [01:04:17]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, man. There was. Those three will fucking get you there. Gotta have some courageous. Got to be humble and you got to trust.

Mike [01:04:35]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:04:36]:
And that's equation you can solve by asking yourself, are you being humble? Are you trusting? You have some courage. Right. You can. You can weigh all that. Are you arrogantly, you know, spewing nonsense? Does your argument stick if it's true or not? You know what I mean? Do you trust somebody or. You're being very skeptical and. What was the other one?

Mike [01:05:01]:
Trust.

Eldar [01:05:02]:
Trust. Yeah, I said that. You trust somebody or you're very skeptical.

Mike [01:05:06]:
Humble. Trust. And courage.

Eldar [01:05:08]:
Courage, yeah. And you're being courageous? Or do you have fear inside of you?

Mike [01:05:11]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:05:12]:
You don't have that equation solved internally? Never get there, right or no.

Toliy [01:05:20]:
Yeah, probably not.

Eldar [01:05:22]:
So it works. Did we answer your question? That makes sense, right?

Mike [01:05:28]:
Yeah, you got to be a little bit more.

Eldar [01:05:30]:
Oh, my God. He used the e word. You see that? That's another fucking word, bro.

Mike [01:05:38]:
That's important, too. Yeah.

Eldar [01:05:40]:
Enthusiasm, bro.

Mike [01:05:41]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:05:41]:
You gotta get some.

Mike [01:05:43]:
Yeah, enthusiasm. Yeah. You know what's another one for the formula?

Eldar [01:05:47]:
It is another form. You have to be enthusiastic. Well, you have to have some kind of excitement to want to, like, do this shit. Because if you're excited about it, you don't want to do this, bro.

Mike [01:05:58]:
Because excitement propels your curiosity to go out there and really.

Eldar [01:06:03]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:06:04]:
Get to know what the fuck's happening. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Enthusiasm is the driving force of all this stuff.

Eldar [01:06:12]:
That's why I think. That's why I have those issues with you. Toilet. Right. That's why I'm connecting it now. Like, why?

Mike [01:06:19]:
Like, what's missing?

Eldar [01:06:21]:
What's missing?

Mike [01:06:21]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:06:22]:
You know, in those things. Right. And.

Mike [01:06:26]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:06:26]:
And now you just say it one by one. Trust. No. Trust. No. Trust. Humble. Probably not.

Eldar [01:06:33]:
Excitement? Definitely not. Courage? Absolutely not.

Mike [01:06:38]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:06:39]:
Right. Give me something.

Mike [01:06:41]:
Is there an order? Do you have to go and.

Eldar [01:06:42]:
Yeah, that's my next question. Yeah. Yeah. Well, you said the humble has to be first before trust.

Mike [01:06:49]:
And you can only be enthusiastic when you can maybe see a light at the end of the tunnel. So you have to. Those things have to be behind it. Your energy is drawn from your humility, your trust and your courage. And then that sparks the enthusiasm, I think. Okay, it could be or it could be the other way around. You're enthusiastic to solve a problem.

Eldar [01:07:09]:
You can't be enthusiastic.

Mike [01:07:10]:
You can't. Or you can't become enthusiastic and then become humble.

Eldar [01:07:13]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:07:14]:
Like, and then trial. No, you have to. It has to be an end.

Eldar [01:07:17]:
Yeah, I think so.

Mike [01:07:18]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:07:19]:
You can't get excited when you don't. When you don't trust or you have courage. Right. Like, what are you getting excited about?

Mike [01:07:23]:
You can't.

Eldar [01:07:24]:
Your fears, your fear driven.

Mike [01:07:25]:
Yeah, probably humility is the first one. Because by being humble, you're saying, I don't know. And I want. I don't know.

Eldar [01:07:34]:
Like, yeah.

Mike [01:07:34]:
You're saying, I don't know. I'm ready to learn.

Eldar [01:07:38]:
Yes. Right. Accept knowledge. Correct. Yeah, I'm willing to learn.

Mike [01:07:42]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:07:43]:
To trust you. To learn. To get there.

Mike [01:07:46]:
To get it.

Eldar [01:07:47]:
And then. And then act on it. To courage.

Toliy [01:07:50]:
Close the door. I think there's an echo.

Eldar [01:07:53]:
Yeah. I mean, those are some big words.

Mike [01:07:55]:
How do you get humble? Not in one episode.

Eldar [01:07:57]:
Right. Not one episode.

Mike [01:07:58]:
Not in one episode.

Eldar [01:07:59]:
You're giving away so much, man.

Mike [01:08:00]:
Yeah, that's true. We are. You know, but that's an interesting question.

Toliy [01:08:04]:
I probably say, like, the answer that I could think of to that is that the way you get humble is.

Eldar [01:08:12]:
Admitting that you don't know yourself.

Mike [01:08:15]:
No.

Toliy [01:08:16]:
Like a pure or genuine desire to look, to learn.

Eldar [01:08:22]:
Curiosity to learn. You bring another thing.

Mike [01:08:26]:
Maybe I was thinking about it differently, more of a negative way. But I think if you're under the wrong impression about something and it's been ongoing thing.

Eldar [01:08:38]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:08:39]:
You have to face yourself, be honest with who you actually are, so you can be like, I guess, be disgusted by that and want to become humble so you can change. Like, you want to change. I think you have to party. Being humbled is maybe facing yourself. Because when you face yourself, you cannot say, like, okay, I'm gonna be. I'm gonna face myself. And you can't say that you actually. Right about situation.

Mike [01:09:07]:
You automatically are admitting that you're wrong. You're under the wrong impression. But when you face yourself, you're like, yo, I'm a piece of shit. I've been doing all this wrong shit. I'm a disgusting, like, you know, piss big. Yeah. When you admit that to yourself.

Eldar [01:09:22]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:09:23]:
You being honest who you are, and you automatically. You invalidate your qualifications that you might have had.

Eldar [01:09:30]:
Arrogance.

Mike [01:09:31]:
Arrogance.

Eldar [01:09:32]:
Remove the arrogance.

Mike [01:09:33]:
Yeah. And then you become humble because you say, yo, actually I am this nasty person.

Eldar [01:09:38]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:09:39]:
You know?

Eldar [01:09:40]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:09:41]:
And. But if you don't want to be that anymore. So I guess, yeah.

Toliy [01:09:46]:
You have to like a genuine or, or. Yeah. Like a genuine desire to learn.

Eldar [01:09:56]:
Yeah. Yeah. And now can you guys think about in your personal lives.

Mike [01:10:01]:
Mm hmm.

Eldar [01:10:01]:
That anything that you learned, learned and actually retained did not result, was not result of you being actually receptive? Right. Like actually be receptive.

Mike [01:10:15]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:10:15]:
Right.

Mike [01:10:15]:
No.

Eldar [01:10:16]:
And to actually be receptive is to be, have that humility, like you said. Like, I don't see it right now. Like in my mind where I ever got into a place without being, without having that type of quality. And when I did, I received everything.

Toliy [01:10:32]:
Yeah. I mean, you, you really have two options in general. In life. You either find the fastest way to get as ignorant as possible.

Eldar [01:10:39]:
Mm hmm.

Toliy [01:10:40]:
Or you get humble.

Eldar [01:10:42]:
Oh my God. Hold on 1 second. I like that one a lot.

Mike [01:10:46]:
You did.

Toliy [01:10:46]:
There is no other option.

Eldar [01:10:48]:
Yes, I like, that's why you have to say it again all my time. Yeah, bro, we have so many, it's unbelievable. You only have two options. Options in life.

Toliy [01:10:57]:
You either find the fastest way to.

Eldar [01:10:59]:
Ignorance either find the fastest way to.

Toliy [01:11:05]:
Ignorance or get humble.

Eldar [01:11:07]:
Or get humbled. Or get humbled. Or get humble.

Toliy [01:11:11]:
Or, or be humble. Yeah. Both of those are extremely lucky paths. Yeah. You either have to get, find a way to get humbled as fast as.

Eldar [01:11:21]:
Oh, yeah.

Toliy [01:11:21]:
As fast as possible or find a way to ignorant.

Eldar [01:11:27]:
Yeah. And obviously, you know, if you didn't listen to the podcast, it might note click. But there's a lot of good, good stuff in that, what you just said, because that's like the answer, but it's not supposed to be understood without really like what you went through on why you deduced that in your head and then what you did, you know, it's not supposed to click. Yeah, man, that's crazy. You know what I remembered?

Mike [01:11:51]:
Mmhmm.

Eldar [01:11:52]:
I remembered Andre pulling up and a while ago, you know, ten years ago, whatever, on his motorcycle.

Mike [01:11:59]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:12:00]:
Wipey stuff. And he's talking about he works out and stuff like that. And I once I saw how he was working out, doing pull ups stuff, muscle ups and stuff like that, you know?

Mike [01:12:08]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:12:08]:
And I was intrigued. I was like, wow. You know what I mean? Like, he clearly knows what he's doing.

Mike [01:12:12]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:12:13]:
You know, not like I was out of shape or anything. I was playing basketballs, working out a little bit, but not to the degree that he was right. And I remember he's like, he was like inviting, you know, he's like, hey, come work out with me. And like, I went into this whole thing where it's like, alright, cool. Like, I guess, like, I'll just follow him. Mm hmm. Just gonna put my head down.

Mike [01:12:33]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:12:33]:
You know, and be a good student as to what I'm gonna receive here, you know, and I still, till this day, remember that when I followed his thing and almost to the t, obviously I wasn't able to do certain things. Obviously. But he was guiding me through the process.

Mike [01:12:49]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:12:49]:
Right. I clearly was a student.

Mike [01:12:51]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:12:53]:
But I was gaining a lot. Like, meaning, like, I was seeing the results because I was listening, you know, and I was performing as best as I could under his supervision. And I liked where I was going, you know what I mean? Until this day when I opened myself up like that and allowed him to pour some knowledge into me. Till this day, I remember some of the key things that he said to me during those workouts.

Mike [01:13:18]:
Yeah, yeah.

Eldar [01:13:20]:
And I still reference them to you.

Mike [01:13:22]:
I know you. Yeah, I remember those.

Eldar [01:13:24]:
You know what I'm saying? This is coming to me now that, like, I retained that knowledge because I was open. I was like a sponge where I went and said, you know what, I'd like to learn this because this is attracting, I'd like to get there, you know what I mean? And something good came out of it. Until this day, I'm striving towards that to be, you know, in that sphere, but through his guidance in my, in my mind.

Mike [01:13:48]:
Mm hmm.

Eldar [01:13:49]:
That he, you know, so, Andrea, if you're listening to this, you know, thank you, you know, for being a good teacher at that moment, but I'm also patting myself on the back here. I was being a good student at that time.

Mike [01:13:59]:
It's important, I think. Yeah.

Eldar [01:14:01]:
You know, and I don't think at the time I was conscious about that I was doing that. Right. But certain things lined up in such a way where I was humble enough and right. I was courageous enough to do it and I trusted him.

Toliy [01:14:13]:
So, so it sounds like you, you have to also, like, learn as fossil, learn as fast as possible to be a good student or enjoy support. Learn or learn to enjoy suffering or.

Eldar [01:14:26]:
Learn to enjoy suffering or that.

Mike [01:14:27]:
Yeah, pretty much, yeah, yeah.

Toliy [01:14:30]:
You know?

Mike [01:14:31]:
Yeah. Humility is probably the humility. It's the number one.

Eldar [01:14:35]:
It, you know, I went into it and I saw what he was able to do and I was impressed. And I was like, I'd like to do that, too. So I was like, you know what? I'm not bringing my old knowledge about, you know, the times I used to work out in my gym because I knew a little, little here and there.

Mike [01:14:48]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:14:49]:
I shut my mouth, and I just modeled him, and he was telling me, and I was paying attention and listening and some of the things. Like I said, this was ten years ago, bro, if not more.

Mike [01:14:57]:
Right.

Eldar [01:14:58]:
I don't know how old his son is now, but, you know, he's definitely, like, I think almost ten.

Mike [01:15:02]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:15:03]:
This is before his son was born.

Mike [01:15:04]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:15:05]:
So that knowledge still stayed with me today.

Mike [01:15:07]:
We have the video.

Eldar [01:15:08]:
We have the videos for that and what we do in how we would do it. And oddly enough, I'm gonna tell you right now, and this is a confession. Right. Physically, it was the best time of my life.

Mike [01:15:21]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:15:21]:
In shape wise, strength wise. Like, I was like, whoa. Like, I was surprised that I got to a point where I got to. Despite the fact I used to work out, bro. I used to work out way back. Even Vinny's gym, bro.

Mike [01:15:33]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:15:33]:
Work out. Look, jacked and stuff like that, but not the type of strength that I had, the type of physique that I had when I was doing it with him. But I do think that there's a. There's a thing where, because I was a good student, I was able to extract and become what I became, which is very interesting.

Mike [01:15:50]:
Mm hmm.

Eldar [01:15:51]:
That the prerequisite to success is the ability to be humble.

Mike [01:15:56]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:15:56]:
Right. And have that humility that you're talking about in order to really open up and. And be a sponge.

Mike [01:16:01]:
Mm hmm.

Eldar [01:16:02]:
Because if you're not, then you have blockages, you know?

Mike [01:16:08]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:16:11]:
Yeah, man. Um, and that's definitely. And I definitely didn't experience the state of loneliness when I was on that journey, that's for sure. You know? Not that I remember. You know? So I think there is, like, some truth in that. Wherever, you know, when you openly or, you know, or even just, like, not openly tell some. Appoint someone to be your teacher, and they got your guide, and you follow as best as you could. There's a lot of gold there.

Toliy [01:16:43]:
Oh, yeah. Because I think that, like, the prerequisite to really do that in a real. In an actual, real, genuine way is to. And I've had this before, is that, like, you. You have to put yourself in a position where you can kind of be crushed by the teacher if they wanted to.

Eldar [01:17:03]:
Yeah.

Toliy [01:17:04]:
Like, you have to be in a very, like, vulnerable.

Eldar [01:17:08]:
Vulnerable.

Toliy [01:17:10]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:17:10]:
Position.

Toliy [01:17:11]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Eldar [01:17:12]:
And it is. Yeah. But I think that. I think that you also mitigate risk that. What you're saying about getting crushed. I know what you're talking about. Ego gets crushed. I know.

Toliy [01:17:21]:
Yeah. And. And, like, by putting yourself. I think one of the things. One of the reasons is that putting yourself in that kind of position, I think, brings you back to maybe an early, very early point in your life where you first started to learn.

Mike [01:17:40]:
Wow, that's interesting.

Eldar [01:17:42]:
That is interesting. You saying genuine curiosity there can be sparked.

Toliy [01:17:47]:
Yeah. Because I feel like that, like, you have to, like, when. When I think about this, like, vulnerable, like, position.

Eldar [01:17:54]:
Hmm.

Toliy [01:17:54]:
Like, if I think about it metaphorically, it's almost like you're. You're like this, like, I don't know, organism without any kind of protection, without, like, any kind of, like, shell. Right. Like, without any kind of, like, armor.

Eldar [01:18:11]:
Yeah. Right. Yeah.

Toliy [01:18:12]:
Without anything. You're kind of, like, bare. Right. And the only time that that happens, probably in that present state that happened is when you were not corrupt yet. And I think that, like, you have to go back to that state. Like that. That's what that state is. That, like, you're probably your pure human, really, state.

Toliy [01:18:40]:
And because you're in that state, that's why you're able to check this out. To learn and retain.

Eldar [01:18:46]:
Check this out. Now, based on what you just said to me, at least, it is very good to be an adult then, because then you have a choice of who you appoint to be your teacher, which, from the previous knowledge, you can still kind of weed out who is the good guys, who's the bad guys. Right. When you're little or young, you don't have the choice in the matter.

Toliy [01:19:07]:
No.

Eldar [01:19:08]:
You get ham hogged by your parents or by the influence of school or by the influence by your peers. Right. They all become some weird, subtle, weird teachers somehow that are teaching us in certain type of way where we're not really sure where we're going. You know what I mean? But as an adult right now, I can tell you right now, like, hey, I want to get something accomplished. I can seek out individuals to go ask for help, for advice for. And I know that, like, I'll be able to weed out who's a dick, who's not, who has their own interests at heart, who doesn't. You know what I mean? And I know how to position myself in such a way where I can retain information, ask the right questions in order to benefit the most that I can. You know what I mean?

Mike [01:19:49]:
Yeah.

Toliy [01:19:49]:
You probably have to summon your purest form, which I think is probably the form of a child.

Eldar [01:19:55]:
Yeah.

Toliy [01:19:56]:
To really learn information.

Eldar [01:19:58]:
Yeah. I mean, do a good job at it by default.

Toliy [01:20:04]:
Like.

Eldar [01:20:04]:
Yeah.

Toliy [01:20:05]:
Your. Your. Your adult form. Yeah. Okay. So I think by default, your adult form of who you are.

Eldar [01:20:14]:
Yeah.

Toliy [01:20:15]:
I don't know if it was meant to be that way or designed that way or people make it that way. Yeah, but it's a protected form.

Eldar [01:20:22]:
Agreed.

Toliy [01:20:23]:
Because it's a protective form.

Eldar [01:20:24]:
Yeah.

Toliy [01:20:24]:
With the armors, with the rebuttals, with the egos, with everything that's protecting the inner shell. I think it's impossible to probably, like, really like to do those things, too.

Eldar [01:20:37]:
Yeah. No, but I'm saying we also, it's, it's a good thing, too, though, because the world is not filled with right teachers. You know what I mean? You don't want to just go to some random guy with a tie, suit and tie, and you see that he's doing something. You're like, yeah, teach me. You know what I mean? He might teach you some wickedness, you know what I mean? But because you have reason and intellect. Right. Is in the form that I'm thinking about. I can come across some really good teachers and allow them to really level me up if I'm able to tap in.

Eldar [01:21:04]:
Into that type of.

Mike [01:21:05]:
Yeah, if you're able to tap into it. Yeah.

Eldar [01:21:07]:
And I think on a daily basis, we do that in friendships.

Toliy [01:21:11]:
But why do you think that? I guess when you're born and you're a child that you're born without that.

Eldar [01:21:17]:
Without what?

Toliy [01:21:17]:
Like, like, without that shell, it's not needed. Why not? If the most amount of guidance happens at that age, at that time or the most amount of guidance is necessary, why is there a least amount of friction? And why is there the most amount of friction at a later age when you actually need the most guidance?

Eldar [01:21:34]:
You know what I'm gonna have to say? No, there is friction. It depends on the kid, I guess. You know what I mean? It depends on the kid. And the kid that acts out the most is probably the most intelligent. That's the protection, the acting out part. You know what I'm saying?

Mike [01:21:46]:
Yeah. Makes sense.

Eldar [01:21:47]:
Like, non conforming. Like, hey, I I want to have fun.

Mike [01:21:51]:
Mm hmm.

Eldar [01:21:52]:
What you're trying to make me do, I don't like it.

Mike [01:21:55]:
Yeah, leave me alone. Mm hmm.

Eldar [01:21:58]:
They want to go on the journey, and those who can protect themselves long enough, maybe break through.

Mike [01:22:04]:
Mm hmm.

Eldar [01:22:05]:
You know?

Mike [01:22:06]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:22:07]:
And those that can't, they suffer.

Mike [01:22:09]:
What? Yeah. They give up the fight for themselves.

Eldar [01:22:13]:
Yeah. Yeah. They didn't have to conform.

Mike [01:22:16]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:22:17]:
So very specific standards to have to fit very specific people, people's needs and all this other stuff. Then you feel oppressed, and then you feel what you start feeling conspiracy theories, because then you start saying, hey, like, they are controlling us.

Mike [01:22:32]:
Oh, yeah.

Eldar [01:22:33]:
Oh, yes, they are. In this little thing that we just discussed. Yes. They are controlling you.

Mike [01:22:39]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:22:40]:
You know what I'm saying? If you're in power, there's no. They. They don't exist.

Mike [01:22:46]:
Yeah. Doesn't matter.

Eldar [01:22:47]:
But if you're in a state of confusion, prolonged happiness. I mean, loneliness.

Mike [01:22:52]:
Right.

Eldar [01:22:53]:
They exist. They're. They're very real, and they're oppressing you.

Mike [01:22:57]:
Every single, because the byproduct of that, of whatever it is, is not to ever look within. It's always to seek external. The external blame.

Eldar [01:23:07]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:23:07]:
To be able to put external blame on.

Eldar [01:23:09]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:23:09]:
External things.

Eldar [01:23:10]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:23:10]:
So you just do what's natural.

Eldar [01:23:13]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:23:14]:
What you observe, probably.

Eldar [01:23:15]:
You know, it's interesting, you know, the.

Mike [01:23:19]:
More it is, the more you push you away from the truth.

Eldar [01:23:22]:
A lot of times, you know, when we're trying to figure out parents, we're trying to figure out, why would you be a bad kid? You know what I mean? Or whatever. Whatever. You know, it's interesting to now look back as to why was I a bad kid, or why was you a bad.

Mike [01:23:35]:
Oh, yeah.

Eldar [01:23:36]:
And stuff like that. That it makes a little bit more sense as to why, you know. Yeah. We had to fight back. You know how I mean, we fall back all the time, you know?

Mike [01:23:48]:
Oh, yeah.

Eldar [01:23:50]:
Till this day, I mean, I think we're fighting back right here.

Mike [01:23:52]:
I think so. You know, then it was more subconscious.

Eldar [01:23:58]:
Correct.

Mike [01:23:59]:
Because somewhere, again, in the soul, we knew that this wasn't. Right.

Eldar [01:24:03]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:24:04]:
This is not the way we're supposed to.

Eldar [01:24:05]:
And that is. That is extremely comforting, bro.

Mike [01:24:08]:
Oh, yeah.

Eldar [01:24:09]:
Because if this motherfucker, you know, if I go next, go around, ain't gonna be fucking starting from scratch, bro. You know what I'm saying?

Mike [01:24:18]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:24:19]:
I'm gonna wall out again.

Mike [01:24:21]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:24:21]:
And again and again. And again and again.

Mike [01:24:23]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:24:24]:
Right. Like, like I'm like the virus.

Mike [01:24:26]:
Mm hmm.

Eldar [01:24:26]:
To that shit.

Mike [01:24:27]:
It's pretty sick. Hmm.

Eldar [01:24:29]:
It's pretty sick, right?

Mike [01:24:30]:
Mm hmm.

Eldar [01:24:31]:
See, she's dead, right?

Toliy [01:24:34]:
No, I mean, I'm.

Eldar [01:24:39]:
Yeah. All right, guys, what's your finishing? Final thoughts on. On this whole thing. So do we agree that his loneliness is on, is an indication of underlying mental condition, or is it really the backwards or the other way? Right. Underlying mental conditions actually are the cause of loneliness. They're not the indication they cause loneliness. They cause loneliness.

Mike [01:25:03]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:25:03]:
States of loneliness.

Mike [01:25:04]:
I think so.

Eldar [01:25:05]:
All right, Oleg, if you're fucking listening to this shit, because your dumbass sent me? A message said yes. The answer is yes. After discussing it more, we come to conclude that you are wrong. Yeah.

Mike [01:25:20]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:25:21]:
I'm not gonna read your response on air.

Mike [01:25:24]:
It's embarrassing.

Eldar [01:25:26]:
Yeah. So, yeah, so if we agree on that, right again, we have to go back to the same thing we discussed a long time ago on this pod, that the mental conditions that are result of, you know, of all this, all these things, is the crumbs that tell us that we might be leading not such a right life. Yeah, not a good life, not in accordance to truth, because we're having developing right mental conditions and mental states that are causing us suffering and pain. So, you know, to be positive about it, that if you're experiencing loneliness there, right. Look at it as an indication that it is probably caused by a very specific mental condition that's been heavy for you, has been ruling your life for quite some time, and that is why you're alone in it now. Right. And you're confused and you can't, you don't see movement, you don't see any kind of change. And that despair, confusion and everything else causing you to feel the states of loneliness.

Mike [01:26:31]:
Mm hmm.

Eldar [01:26:33]:
That's my thing. That's my final thoughts. And the recommendation to anybody who is experiencing prolonged periods of loneliness is to examine not, not what the hell is loneliness and why do you feel, but more so, what are some conditions behind it and trying to solve those things. And I think loneliness will just fall to the side.

Toliy [01:26:55]:
Loneliness are probably an indication that you need to examine those things further.

Mike [01:26:59]:
Yeah, yeah. It's like you're trying to squeeze a pineapple out of an orange. You're trying to extract something that doesn't exist. Yeah.

Eldar [01:27:11]:
Try to confuse it. Yes. Yeah.

Mike [01:27:14]:
No, you're trying to squeeze something.

Eldar [01:27:16]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:27:16]:
Out of something that. Where it doesn't exist.

Eldar [01:27:19]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:27:19]:
You're trying to extract happiness out of somewhere that cannot be extracted.

Eldar [01:27:24]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:27:24]:
You know, like I was doing, for example, my thing was trying to extract something.

Eldar [01:27:28]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:27:28]:
But I can't extract that from there because that's not where it's actually the real happiness is. Not attract from there.

Eldar [01:27:34]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:27:34]:
And I think that that is an underlying mental condition which causes loneliness and all other stuff.

Eldar [01:27:39]:
Yeah, yeah. Very good point.

Mike [01:27:41]:
Sorry for the bad example, but.

Eldar [01:27:42]:
No, but I got it. Now that you explained it, I get it, you know, you know, you trying something and the result is not even there. Like, you can't even get the results that you're looking for in this particular space.

Mike [01:27:52]:
Yeah. But you're under the impression that it is.

Eldar [01:27:54]:
But you under the pressure that it is.

Mike [01:27:55]:
Yeah. And that's why.

Eldar [01:27:56]:
And that. And prolonged states of that.

Mike [01:27:58]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:27:59]:
I will cook you.

Mike [01:28:00]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:28:00]:
Right. It'll be so heavy, so prolonged that sooner or later you will, might experience states of loneliness.

Mike [01:28:09]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:28:09]:
And then states of depression. Right?

Mike [01:28:11]:
Yes.

Eldar [01:28:12]:
Isolation.

Mike [01:28:13]:
A lot of stuff. Despair, of course.

Eldar [01:28:15]:
Helplessness. Hopelessness.

Mike [01:28:17]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:28:19]:
All the lessness, you know, and you're probably a lot of times confused. What's going on? What do I do? How do I do it? Hopefully this helps. Good job, guys.

Mike [01:28:33]:
Yeah, this is very good.