55. Conquering Inner Demons: Basketball, Anger, and being Unwell

Dennis [00:00:00]:
On this week's episode.

Mike [00:00:01]:
So you guys think I have an anger problem. You don't just say, you know what? Today I'm going to value honesty. And then you already have it, right? You have to understand, what does it mean to be honest? You have to get knowledge about it. And I think that's what, on the stage I'm in. I'm in the getting knowledge phase now.

Eldar [00:00:13]:
I'm having a hard time, like, of understanding, like, what's he doing?

Mike [00:00:16]:
You have to have a good reason for doing something.

Toliy [00:00:17]:
It sounds more like you're running away from it than trying to understand it. Yeah, I don't know this conversation. I feel like Mike should play basketball even more.

Eldar [00:00:34]:
Toli said that most people experience problems or the pain of those problems. However, they don't actually know the origin of that problem, what's actually causing the problem in the first place. A lot of times, we just kind of surfacing it all and saying that this is what it is. Right? Maybe we even believe it. Most of the time, I think we believe it.

Mike [00:00:54]:
Do you think that the opposite is true or no? We experience happenings, but we don't know what causes it.

Eldar [00:00:59]:
Can I recount the story for you?

Eldar [00:01:00]:
Oh, yeah.

Mike [00:01:01]:
We have that too.

Eldar [00:01:02]:
Yeah, I think so.

Tommy [00:01:03]:
I feel like this. This one thing is relevant. I was standing. I was standing in a Starbucks, okay? Two mornings ago. And this lady comes in, and, I don't know, she seems dressed nice, and she's waiting for a drink, and I'm doing my work. And then suddenly I I realize that they're having a disagreement. Someone who works there. And the person.

Eldar [00:01:28]:
And I hear the person say, who works there? You come in here every day, you do this, and we tell you that, like, adding this to the drink is an extra charge. And you do this to us every day. And it just continues. The argument continues. It continues. And I'm like, you know, why don't.

Eldar [00:01:49]:
You just chill out?

Eldar [00:01:50]:
It's. You know what I mean?

Eldar [00:01:52]:
Like, it's getting heated.

Eldar [00:01:54]:
I didn't say anything.

Mike [00:01:55]:
Oh, you said it to yourself.

Toliy [00:01:57]:
Getting a little heated.

Mike [00:01:58]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:01:58]:
You know, like, this could be nothing.

Toliy [00:02:00]:
Like, what is this?

Mike [00:02:01]:
You know?

Eldar [00:02:01]:
So you got up and peed for them?

Eldar [00:02:03]:
No. Um, no, but I I was. Look, the part of this is not relevant.

Mike [00:02:09]:
But the.

Eldar [00:02:10]:
The part that is relevant is that the lady who is just there getting her drink, clearly, every day. Because you do this to us every day.

Toliy [00:02:19]:
Right?

Eldar [00:02:19]:
So she's, like, there every day. Um, she starts saying, like. Like, God's gonna punish you. Someone's gonna kill you in the street. You know, like, you know, she's like, holding her hand up at the. At the person. And. And at that point, like, they're not really, like, the person who is saying, like, like, I'm gonna have to ask you to leave.

Eldar [00:02:44]:
Like, they're not really responding with, like, okay, this woman's making a threat against my life. Like, they're just kind of saying, you know, if you continue doing this. So my question really was, is this woman's anger or is her. Is her pain, is her pain, is there a source of her pain?

Eldar [00:03:08]:
Really?

Eldar [00:03:08]:
Like, and what is it? That's kind of what I was asking. What's the sort of thing?

Mike [00:03:11]:
So you're saying that she's getting upset somewhere else and then coming in and taking it out on the Starbucks team. Potentially, yeah, potentially.

Eldar [00:03:18]:
Right. But I don't see that as something like, in all other reasons. Like, to me, if you're just somebody getting your coffee, why should I be bothered? You know, like, I was mindful. I saw this woman come in. You know, I was just kind of mindful. I knew that I was, like, being mindful of the people around me. And unfortunately, I had to, like, witness as this woman got, like, enraged. Sort of like not enraged, but angered by the way she was being treated.

Eldar [00:03:51]:
And I thought about the context. She comes in every day for a coffee and it kind of means like, yeah, I don't know. So it's like they have these policies. If you add sugars to your drinks or if you do whatever, if you add sugar or you want steamed milk, that's an extra sixty cents. And at the time of purchase, you have to let them know that that's what you want. So if you go and try to ask people to make the drink differently after you pay, they might get kind.

Eldar [00:04:26]:
Of frustrated with that sort of chipotle. Guac is extra. Okay.

Eldar [00:04:30]:
Yes, exactly, exactly. Guac is extra.

Mike [00:04:33]:
Guacan yellow.

Toliy [00:04:34]:
No, but he's also saying a scenario where someone's asking for extra shit after they already have paid on purpose.

Eldar [00:04:40]:
Yeah, yeah. Which.

Eldar [00:04:42]:
It angers me that this person comes in for enjoyment, their own. Their own health or their own happiness, their coffee.

Mike [00:04:48]:
And.

Eldar [00:04:50]:
And there has to be the subtle hostilities against a person who is by all means, just trying to, like, take advantage of this. What we have, the economy, like, gives us these opportunities. You know what I mean? You have the option to go and get a cup of fresh coffee somewhere. That's what I'm saying. They don't really care about. They may not may not care about the other people in there and all this, or they may not care about staying. They just want to go there because that brings them happiness. So, you know, Tom, how's that going.

Eldar [00:05:25]:
To help us with the problem? Without problem, the fact that people there.

Eldar [00:05:28]:
Could be a few ways. So, like, you might have pain, and the way that your pain interacts with the world outside you is sort of shielding you from dealing with that pain.

Eldar [00:05:44]:
Okay. Yeah.

Eldar [00:05:44]:
You like getting in the way of you dealing with your own pain. So maybe that thing that you do is working against you, and it's just a matter of time before, like, all the layers peel away, you know? So maybe that's just one, like, coping kind of mechanism. That's one thing. Right. And then is there any other way?

Toliy [00:06:04]:
Do you know the question that other is asking?

Eldar [00:06:06]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:06:06]:
Like, do we know the source of our pain when we experience it?

Eldar [00:06:13]:
Yeah. Yeah. A lot of times we're experiencing pain and problems. Right. And we say that this is where they're coming from, and a lot of times, that's not what they're coming from at all. I think he does understand that. Right, Tom, are you making an example of a lady who clearly has probably anger issues, right. Coming into Starbucks, not getting what she wants, and then letting it all out on the person.

Eldar [00:06:35]:
Right. Because, you know, whatever. Yeah.

Eldar [00:06:37]:
It was drawing attention to them.

Eldar [00:06:39]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:06:40]:
You know, and making other people uncomfortable. And I think there's something going on there behind that.

Eldar [00:06:45]:
Yeah.

Toliy [00:06:45]:
Right.

Eldar [00:06:46]:
At first she seems really nice. During that episode, I think, okay, maybe she's not. Well, you know, we get to that point where you're like. Like you. Like, you need to. Your life needs to be taken pretty.

Eldar [00:07:02]:
Fucked up in the moment of time. The person, when that experiences and attributes exter their paint on external things. Would you say that everybody is unwell for that moment in time? Whoever is, uh, like you just experienced today? You just gave me an example. I said, hey, I set up a. What's his name? I set up the family dinner. Right? Was it?

Mike [00:07:27]:
Mm hmm.

Eldar [00:07:28]:
You set up a family dinner. Right. For the family. And then one of the individuals dropped out. You're getting upset with that individual. Right. Even though. Right.

Eldar [00:07:41]:
The actual thing, that it was a very high chance that that individual was gonna drop out. Therefore, you know, why are you getting angry first place? If you want, you wouldn't have done the other. Yeah. But you had some kind of an attachment. Right. Therefore that led you to feel a certain type of emotion when the plans did not go your way. Yeah, 100%. Right.

Eldar [00:08:04]:
So would you say that whoever experiences this phenomenon is unwell at that moment.

Eldar [00:08:09]:
Including me, like, the person, including all of us observing?

Mike [00:08:12]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:08:12]:
Anybody who in that moment.

Toliy [00:08:14]:
No, not the person observing.

Eldar [00:08:21]:
I was observing this happened.

Eldar [00:08:23]:
No, I know. I'm not saying you unwell.

Mike [00:08:24]:
He did feel unwell. Well, he's all done.

Toliy [00:08:26]:
Well, yeah, no, but he's not talking.

Eldar [00:08:27]:
About it because I question whether or not.

Eldar [00:08:29]:
Oh, no, no, no. If you make the judgment on the thing incorrectly. So it means if you start siding with her. Right. Like, yeah, that's unfair and unjust. Yeah, you. You definitely got, uh. Well, the thing is, you, for that.

Eldar [00:08:40]:
Moment, I do feel like I was, in a way, a bystander. So that makes you.

Mike [00:08:45]:
It made him uncomfortable in a way.

Eldar [00:08:50]:
What if my judgment is better than the judgment of the person who. Who is dealing with this anger outburst?

Eldar [00:08:57]:
Right. Yeah, it probably was.

Toliy [00:08:59]:
No, he's trying to say that people will get involved.

Eldar [00:09:01]:
I know.

Toliy [00:09:01]:
It really comes down to, are they always sick in that moment, in that.

Eldar [00:09:06]:
Moment in time where we don't attribute the right?

Toliy [00:09:11]:
Right?

Eldar [00:09:12]:
The right. Was it pain to the right? Cause we don't attribute the right stuff.

Toliy [00:09:17]:
Or if we administer, like, if I go like this to Tom's chair and he's like, don't fucking touch my chair.

Eldar [00:09:23]:
Yeah, right.

Toliy [00:09:24]:
Like, Elder's asking, in that moment, are all people sick if they're doing that? If you're gonna scream at the top of your lungs at me for touch, for touching your chair.

Eldar [00:09:35]:
Oh, yeah. Like, anyone who would scream.

Eldar [00:09:37]:
Right.

Toliy [00:09:38]:
Anyone who's doing that in that kind of moment.

Mike [00:09:40]:
What does it mean to be sick?

Eldar [00:09:42]:
Well, I think that. I mean, he said she was probably unwell, and my challenge was there, whether or not anybody who experiences this type of thing, especially for long periods of time. Right. Like, I think that totally's example with the sister is he's experiencing this type of pain for very long periods of time. And even though he's trying to rationalize through this stuff, he's not getting to the root of it. He's still experiencing that pain, therefore he's unwell. You know what I mean? Like, it's like you keep hitting your same. Your head against the same wall, expecting a different result.

Mike [00:10:13]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:10:13]:
You are unwell.

Mike [00:10:14]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:10:16]:
You are unwell, because as soon as you see the thing for what it is, you can still continue with being courteous and invite the individuals to the dinner, no problem. But you're not going there with any attachment that the individuals will show up. Right? No chance.

Mike [00:10:33]:
Mm hmm. No. Yeah, you shouldn't.

Eldar [00:10:35]:
Why? You know what I'm saying? Because you understood that the scope of service that was happening here, especially based on statistical data he already has.

Mike [00:10:45]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:10:45]:
That this individual is very flaky and most likely will do what they do, you know?

Mike [00:10:49]:
But is it so for me to.

Eldar [00:10:51]:
Extend, to fall and follow that emotional response that he has? Like, I'm angry now. Upset. Irritated.

Mike [00:10:57]:
A little bit.

Eldar [00:10:58]:
Let's just say that you unwell, you're not seeing things for what they are.

Mike [00:11:02]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:11:02]:
So anybody who's not seeing or connecting the causal relationship properly is unwell.

Mike [00:11:09]:
Well, what causes a person to become unwell?

Eldar [00:11:12]:
Well, that's a very good question.

Toliy [00:11:13]:
Having the inability to see things for what they are.

Eldar [00:11:16]:
Yeah. And what are some things that cause that inability? Attachment. Right.

Toliy [00:11:22]:
Or attachment. And just like a wrong. Like a wrong life, teaching, like a wrong. They're just like, learning how to do things.

Eldar [00:11:31]:
Very general. Don't go that far.

Mike [00:11:33]:
But I think it's. Yeah, it's.

Toliy [00:11:34]:
No, but that's what it is.

Eldar [00:11:36]:
I agree. But pinpoint it. In your case, your example, you had a specific attachment. You have a specific. You want a specific outcome. And you said, yes, I want this. I want this. I want this.

Eldar [00:11:45]:
You have a desire to get this attachment. You're attached to it.

Toliy [00:11:48]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:11:49]:
Therefore you're compromised.

Toliy [00:11:50]:
Yeah, I guess. Yeah, in my example, like. Yeah, it's just like.

Eldar [00:11:55]:
And we see, we discussed. Sorry to interrupt you. We discuss that the reason why we're angry is because we don't get the desired outcomes.

Toliy [00:12:03]:
Yeah, yeah, I guess. Yeah. In my example, it's.

Mike [00:12:05]:
But it's.

Toliy [00:12:06]:
It's trying to. To. To use emotion and. And have emotion trump, Trump, Trump. Like logic.

Eldar [00:12:12]:
Yeah, but where's the emotions springs out of? I think it's actually.

Toliy [00:12:15]:
Yeah, I mean. Yeah, I mean, everything.

Mike [00:12:17]:
The.

Toliy [00:12:18]:
The root of everything is attachment.

Eldar [00:12:19]:
Okay, well, chill with that. Don't give this one up, Mike. You were gonna say something.

Mike [00:12:25]:
Yeah, I was gonna say something, but I forgot. But I think that's part of life, too.

Eldar [00:12:30]:
It is.

Mike [00:12:31]:
But, um. What you. What did. What did you say? Totally, it was.

Eldar [00:12:35]:
Is it. How about this? Sorry. Is it possible to feel any kind of pain if you see it for what it is?

Toliy [00:12:42]:
No.

Eldar [00:12:44]:
Wow, that's very interesting. Is it possible for you to suffer from anything, anything in the world? Imagine the worst case scenarios, guys, in your heads. But if you see it for what it is.

Toliy [00:12:57]:
No.

Eldar [00:12:58]:
Why?

Mike [00:12:58]:
I don't think so.

Eldar [00:12:59]:
That's very interesting, because truth.

Toliy [00:13:01]:
Truth and the reality. Truth is like the. Yeah, truth and reality just is. And it's not good or bad.

Eldar [00:13:11]:
Yeah, that is interesting. And you saying that we can tune our minds in, in such a way where.

Toliy [00:13:18]:
See, I'm not sure. I'm not sure. Like, like, I think humans in general are extremely powerful, right? And I am not yet sure how, like how far a human can get. And I'm not sure if there are any built in flaws in humans that could prevent us from getting to a particular place.

Mike [00:13:40]:
The truest form.

Toliy [00:13:41]:
I'm not sure. Right? I'm not sure. Yeah. I'm not sure one way or another. So I'm not sure if it's possible for anyone as an individual to only see things for what they are and exist in the lang. In the land of just it, just like it is what it is.

Eldar [00:13:59]:
Not.

Toliy [00:13:59]:
Not in a good or bad land. Like, I'm not sure if that's possible to get to for all things. Like I'm not sure if we're skilled.

Mike [00:14:09]:
Enough, but if it's possible for one. Why wouldn't it be possible? Who you're referencing Mister J. Mister J. Yeah, sure. No, if you, if you learned, if you had a situation, right with the sister. Oh, this situation. Right.

Eldar [00:14:24]:
I.

Mike [00:14:24]:
And now he has already overcome that.

Eldar [00:14:26]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:14:26]:
If he can do it in that, why can't he overcome it in other things?

Eldar [00:14:30]:
That's why I think he premised the whole thing by saying that he thinks that we are very powerful. And I think he thinks that he can do that.

Mike [00:14:35]:
I think I agree.

Eldar [00:14:36]:
But he hasn't gotten to a point where he's process of that elimination, what you're talking about, where he's freeing himself from these attachments and these things. He doesn't know which form is going to take place where he might be. Get stumped. Yeah.

Toliy [00:14:49]:
I also don't know if it's possible to do that in like, complete form without renouncing everything, without going to say that, like, I'm not gonna live, like, here in this kind of life. I'm gonna go to the monk world, for example. I'm not sure if you could do that and be here without having any attachments or any of. And just exist in the like. Things just aredem and you have no feeling of good towards bad to them. Like. Yeah, I'm not sure if, like if people, I mean, like, if people exactly are capable of that.

Eldar [00:15:30]:
Well, unless you define yourself, that the mission requires you to be amongst men and not amongst yourself.

Toliy [00:15:37]:
Well, like, for example, if I asked you, right, do you think it's possible for you to like, let's say live in the area where you are and, like, live your life the way that you understand it now, right. And have. And live a life without attachment and live a life where things just are and there's no good or bad feelings for yourself.

Eldar [00:15:57]:
I can't answer that too. I can't. I can't genuinely answer that because I think I'm limited. But I agree with what Mike is saying. I think that in the process of elimination, I think that you can choose very big parts of your life and apply yourself in such a way where you just are. And you don't have to make judgment calls on certain things. You see things for what they are and you extract what is. And that which is.

Eldar [00:16:24]:
What is you saying? That which what is can still be appreciated. Right. Why can't that be a value thing where you value that which is the truth of the matter? Like reality.

Toliy [00:16:37]:
I mean, you can't make a judgment call if it's good or bad.

Eldar [00:16:40]:
No. You can yourself by saying that this is what it is. So then I prefer that as an individual who's observing that. Right. You can say still that it is what it is. I'm not gonna have an emotional thing. However, I can't judge it that because it is what it is. I'm cool with it.

Eldar [00:16:55]:
Like, I'm cool with this for what it is.

Toliy [00:16:58]:
Yeah. I mean, I think you would have a hard time doing that if you still have attachments, you.

Eldar [00:17:04]:
I definitely agree with that.

Toliy [00:17:06]:
I think that you will get stumped somewhere.

Eldar [00:17:08]:
I definitely agree with that. If you have attachments. Yeah. But if you understand a particular scenario, like your example, I don't see how you can not appreciate it for what it is. I just can't.

Toliy [00:17:24]:
No, I mean, I can definitely work towards seeing things for what they are. Right. What I'm saying is that, like, as long as us, as people, I think, maintain attachment by having attachments, I think that we're a little bit raising our hand and saying that, hey, we're choosing to be ignorant.

Eldar [00:17:43]:
Agree with that. Yeah. But I think in the process of seeing things for what they are, it's inevitable for you to examine those attachments. Also the case.

Toliy [00:17:51]:
Yes, yes. I'm saying that I am not confident for myself, for example.

Eldar [00:17:55]:
No, yeah, sure.

Toliy [00:17:56]:
Right. And I'm not confident. I don't know if anybody ever has.

Eldar [00:18:00]:
Yeah.

Toliy [00:18:01]:
Gotten to that point. Right. I guess.

Eldar [00:18:03]:
How would it look like?

Toliy [00:18:04]:
Yeah, I guess some of the enlightened masters have claimed for it, but then, like, people have pointed out certain things about them. Right. Let's say like, oh, no, here, like you can see that he had attachment there, right. And they'll be like, no, no, no, that wasn't it.

Eldar [00:18:16]:
Right. Yeah.

Toliy [00:18:16]:
So, like, I don't know if you.

Mike [00:18:18]:
Could ever prove that is there's an healthy attachment.

Eldar [00:18:22]:
Right.

Mike [00:18:22]:
Or.

Toliy [00:18:24]:
Yeah, no, I mean, my understanding is, I probably would say the attachment, I.

Eldar [00:18:30]:
Think 20, pretty good example.

Mike [00:18:32]:
Is it breathing, an attachment, or it's just a function? Eating. Is that an attachment or is that a function? Sleeping. Is that an attachment or a function?

Eldar [00:18:40]:
Breathing is an interesting question. I'm not sure. Who has attachment to breathing?

Mike [00:18:45]:
Yeah, breathing, probably not. But eating or sleeping.

Eldar [00:18:49]:
There's unhealthy eating. So yes, I would say there is attachments. Specific type of eating. Yeah, sleeping.

Mike [00:18:56]:
But the process of just eating. Can you have a healthy attachment to eating because it's something that you need to survive? See, I'm not sure. Yeah, no, I don't know.

Toliy [00:19:06]:
Eating to survive. I don't know if you're attached.

Mike [00:19:08]:
No.

Eldar [00:19:08]:
But that, again, proves his point that you can't exist within point of existing within the nature.

Toliy [00:19:15]:
Well, no, we can definitely create like an, like a scenario. Where is that? I'm just saying that I'm not confident whether an individual is capable of just doing that.

Eldar [00:19:23]:
Yeah. Yeah. Okay, so then you're saying the world is too complicated for individual to be able to figure that out.

Toliy [00:19:30]:
Yes. Yeah. I'm not ruling it out where like, it's for sure. No, like, for example, for myself, I, I don't think that I'll get to a point where I don't have any attachments to anything and live in a just as world, but I'm not sure.

Eldar [00:19:46]:
Yeah, I mean, I think that, I think maybe, maybe you're maybe underestimating yourself. One and two. I'm not sure. The way you're describing just is world. I think it's not yet appealing enough for you to have an attachment. So. Is it?

Toliy [00:19:57]:
Oh, well, well, yeah. Yeah. Because I know that the reason why.

Eldar [00:20:02]:
You right now, you just have a value. Oh, just this world doesn't sound kind of cool. That stuff right there, I'm attached to and I like it. Therefore I'm gonna see it. So you're not supposed to see what you see. I think if you ever to, if you ever to put your mind to the world of just is, let's just say I don't even know how it looks like. You quickly find out that you probably will have the capability of getting it.

Mike [00:20:23]:
Is attachment a present, future, past or it could be either one of those.

Eldar [00:20:29]:
Does attachment have time?

Mike [00:20:30]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:20:33]:
Time frame.

Mike [00:20:34]:
Yeah. Can attach me in the present? I guess, right?

Eldar [00:20:37]:
You could? I think so, yeah.

Mike [00:20:40]:
Deterministic, like a present form.

Eldar [00:20:42]:
Like if you know, if you're in.

Mike [00:20:43]:
The moment doing something. Right. Are you attached? Is there an attachment factor there or. No, like if you're really zoned into something, are you attached or you just doing it? We're completely focusing. There's no attachment.

Eldar [00:20:55]:
Depending if you're thinking about the end result.

Mike [00:20:57]:
Maybe known if you're just completely in that thing in that moment, you're not thinking about anything.

Eldar [00:21:02]:
Probably not, yeah. Probably not experiencing attachment.

Mike [00:21:04]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:21:04]:
So wait, detachment.

Mike [00:21:05]:
So then it is possible to do certain things well, yeah, he does.

Eldar [00:21:09]:
He just saying that. I'm not sure how consistent you can.

Mike [00:21:11]:
Be at it with that. Yeah.

Toliy [00:21:12]:
I think that, like, for you to get zoned into doing that to begin with, there's probably a reason why you're doing that. I don't know if you can extend those moments so that you are like in a fore. Like you're a forever. Because if we're talking about a zoned moment, we're talking about probably a not consciously thinking moment, right?

Eldar [00:21:30]:
Yeah. You're not thinking. Yeah.

Toliy [00:21:32]:
I don't know how long you can extend a non conscious thinking moment, is all.

Mike [00:21:36]:
But is all thought.

Toliy [00:21:38]:
I think the moment. The moment you start thinking about things, you probably have a pulsing attachment to something.

Mike [00:21:43]:
I wonder if there are things where we just do like that are not. There's no thought like walking. You don't think, okay, I'm gonna put 1ft in front of the other now. You just do it. It's automatic. Right. Can you develop that in that?

Eldar [00:21:59]:
That's an interesting question. I would say yeah.

Mike [00:22:03]:
Because you're saying that.

Eldar [00:22:03]:
I would say yeah.

Mike [00:22:04]:
If you're not thinking, then you're in the moment and you're not attached. Right. But you don't think when you walk.

Eldar [00:22:11]:
Right.

Toliy [00:22:11]:
Well, that's just because it became like.

Mike [00:22:13]:
A exact bitch, became an automatic thing. I'm not sure if that can. The world automatically.

Eldar [00:22:20]:
The world where people can't walk and don't walk. Right. Like, I don't know, decapitated soldiers say, picture that world where not decapitated, handicap, handicapped soldiers. Right. That the legs are blown off. Right. And nobody knows how to walk. Right.

Eldar [00:22:35]:
This is a very serious attachment and a very serious attempt. A desire to walk, where it's an individual who has legs is a very effortless concept where there's no thought or attachment to it. At all. And I, so, you know, that's an ability. Shows that you, your mind and your body as respond, responding in a very natural way where for some individuals it's not natural at all.

Mike [00:22:59]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:23:00]:
And they have to get attached to it, have a desire to it, to do it. So he's saying, I mean, I think I agree with that. It's a possibility, but it's true. It's also training habitual.

Mike [00:23:10]:
Yeah. To a point where the problem is. Right. For example, let's say this. Today you're training how to play basketball and tomorrow you're training how to, I don't know, cook a five star meal and the next day you're training something else. Is it possible to train so many different things or we have so many different interests?

Eldar [00:23:35]:
No, I don't think you're training the traits. I think you're training the mind and the engagement in the things.

Mike [00:23:40]:
Right.

Eldar [00:23:41]:
I don't think you, I think that the vast majority of things, I think what you're doing is you're training yourself to learn how to listen properly, how to take instructions properly. Right. To how to get educated properly. Those are the things you're learning and embodying and then you mimicking or whatever you're doing that what you've learned, that's what you learn. Repetition or whatever in a specific way. Doesn't matter what you're learning how to bake a cake or train basketball.

Mike [00:24:08]:
But I was, I was saying that because we have so many different things that we're training, learning. Right. And some things you're not.

Eldar [00:24:15]:
We're really learning one thing right now. We're talking about training the mind.

Mike [00:24:19]:
Training the mind.

Eldar [00:24:20]:
Right now these tasks is irrelevant. Learning language, learning.

Mike [00:24:23]:
But do they, do they provide distractions from the. Maybe.

Eldar [00:24:26]:
Well, that's hundred percent.

Mike [00:24:28]:
Maybe a different task, which is what we're talking about here.

Eldar [00:24:30]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:24:31]:
My thing is because we're trying to do so many different things.

Eldar [00:24:33]:
Sure. That's one.

Mike [00:24:34]:
Are we not able to really focus on one? For example. Right. Like my thing, what I said, yeah. Maybe with them, I'm not sure if. How it's gonna work out. But with the basketball. Right.

Eldar [00:24:46]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:24:47]:
I wanted to quit basketball because I didn't like the ways engaging in it. Right.

Eldar [00:24:50]:
You don't have your identity.

Mike [00:24:51]:
Yeah, I don't. So I have to train my mind now or have to learn and then come back to basketball. So. In a different form.

Eldar [00:25:00]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:25:01]:
And the only way I see myself coming back.

Eldar [00:25:05]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:25:06]:
Is, is that I'm in a place where no matter what happens? I have to always stay true to myself.

Eldar [00:25:11]:
Okay.

Mike [00:25:11]:
You know?

Eldar [00:25:12]:
Right.

Mike [00:25:13]:
Is that also, like, a thing? So then we can also. I say that because then you can also learn to apply that to everything else because you can train to now stay consistent in that state of mind regardless of what you're doing. Huh.

Eldar [00:25:27]:
The jury's still out on you.

Mike [00:25:28]:
Yes, I know, but that concept. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Toliy [00:25:32]:
I just don't like, it seems like, like, for example, something like walking, I think. Yes. Individuals who have legs definitely become less. It comes to a point where it's a.

Eldar [00:25:44]:
Not a. I would say not a.

Toliy [00:25:45]:
Human, even action, but it becomes closer to a robotic action. Like, it's not something that's just a quick response. Yes. Yeah. I'm not sure if you can get to a point where I, like, even if you do the same things in life every day, where, like, the moment you have a malfunction in your day, like, there's gonna be attachment, that happens.

Eldar [00:26:10]:
See, I'm not sure. I'm not sure I actually think that you can train your mind.

Mike [00:26:14]:
I think it's a train thing. I think you can train to be like that a lot.

Toliy [00:26:19]:
Attachment?

Eldar [00:26:20]:
No, to extend the non attachment. If you learn how to do it in basketball, whatever.

Mike [00:26:25]:
Yeah, that.

Eldar [00:26:25]:
I think that you can. You can extend it past those things only if you continue to practice, but nonetheless, I think you need to probably practice.

Mike [00:26:33]:
I think it's something that just wasn't.

Toliy [00:26:34]:
Practice and saying to not have attachment.

Eldar [00:26:38]:
No, I think he's saying to have a very specific outcome that he wants. He wants a very specific outcome to it.

Toliy [00:26:44]:
How do you tie that into. How is that the idea of not knowing your pain?

Eldar [00:26:47]:
That's a question to Mike, my brother.

Eldar [00:26:50]:
So, like, well, Mike has said that before, that he believes that when you have the values in place, that essentially is your set. Like, you can live your life happily, potentially. So if we see happiness as, like, living a life without, like, some pain that we don't really think we understand the source of. So, like, maybe happiness means overcoming pain and knowing the source of is seeing.

Toliy [00:27:25]:
It for what it is.

Eldar [00:27:27]:
But, um, is what you're asking, like, does life have a way of, like, reaching that potential of untapped, unlimitless energy?

Mike [00:27:41]:
I'm definitely asking that, but I do think that, yes, that life does have an unlimited fountain of youth. Self sustainable. Wow, whatever you said.

Toliy [00:27:51]:
Yeah, I just don't. Don't know if you could get to a point where you don't have attachment.

Eldar [00:27:57]:
To what?

Eldar [00:27:57]:
Something that causes pain.

Eldar [00:27:58]:
Well, to anything is a big statement to say.

Toliy [00:28:00]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:28:01]:
So anything, you know, Mike is trying to have a very specific attachment, maybe to a very specific type of engagement that he has. Right. Yes.

Mike [00:28:12]:
And because I think I can I think we can do it in one thing. I believe we should both do it in other things as well.

Eldar [00:28:19]:
Mm hmm.

Mike [00:28:19]:
And then the more things you combine.

Eldar [00:28:20]:
Then you just, she's saying that as soon as, as soon as somebody throws the ball in your face, that you're gonna start fighting again.

Mike [00:28:27]:
How would somebody just throw the ball in my face?

Eldar [00:28:29]:
An example by accident. But you thought it wasn't an accident because you didn't see where it was coming from.

Mike [00:28:35]:
Yeah, but, you know, because I think.

Eldar [00:28:38]:
Yeah, he's saying that you're, you're you crumble, right?

Toliy [00:28:42]:
Well, no, I was, no, I was, I mean, I wasn't tying it to Mike's situation at all. I was saying more of, like, if.

Eldar [00:28:47]:
You have a problem in life or whatever you said, you stumble upon something. Something stumps you.

Toliy [00:28:52]:
Yeah, yeah.

Mike [00:28:53]:
I'm saying that it's difficult response as well.

Toliy [00:28:56]:
I'm saying that, like, it's different if you have. Because Mike was talking about practice, you know, practicing and stuff throughout your day. Right. And, like, and doing that, which, which I think that, like, you can think about your day and probably practice certain things. And think about certain things. And react pretty consistently to certain things.

Eldar [00:29:13]:
Yeah.

Toliy [00:29:14]:
Right. But I do think that there's gonna be certain curveballs at certain times thrown your way. That will cause you to.

Eldar [00:29:26]:
Get flustered.

Toliy [00:29:27]:
To get flustered potentially. Right. I mean, if you wanna bring up Mike's example, he's saying that he's only willing to play basketball if he, yeah, yeah. I was saying that, like, if you want to bring up, for example, Mike example, he's saying he's only willing to play basketball.

Mike [00:29:42]:
Right.

Toliy [00:29:43]:
If he could stay true to himself at all times. Like, yes. Right. I mean, I would I mean, the way that I'm understanding, at least, is that I would find it difficult to guarantee that and come to basketball. Right. To even, like, to ever start playing basketball again with that guarantee. Because, like, then what if there's gonna be a scenario where somebody does?

Eldar [00:30:13]:
But how can you say that without knowing what he means by being true to himself? How does he define true to himself? You would have to say, right?

Toliy [00:30:19]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I would have to learn more about what I would say is that, like, whatever he's envisioning as, like, a particular way is like, what it sounds to me is like he's envisioning a particular way of things playing out every single time that way. Right.

Eldar [00:30:35]:
Yeah.

Toliy [00:30:35]:
And while I think that he could work on certain things and have a certain level of consistency. Right. And change certain things, I'm not sure if, like, certain outliers can't happen.

Eldar [00:30:47]:
Okay. I mean, you want to examine your thing. Sure. You know, would that help? I mean, I think the exercise would be here. How do you envision. Right. To staying true to yourself in the form of basketball, the activity of basketball. And then totally maybe can stump you with certain scenarios within that realm to see whether or not you can pass that test.

Mike [00:31:12]:
Okay.

Eldar [00:31:15]:
Would it be helpful? Just, you know, I think it'd be fun.

Mike [00:31:19]:
Okay. Sure.

Eldar [00:31:21]:
So, Mike.

Mike [00:31:21]:
Yeah. I mean, let us in.

Eldar [00:31:24]:
Uh, how are you so far?

Mike [00:31:26]:
You envisioning right so far, envisioning it? Yeah.

Eldar [00:31:28]:
Yeah. How are you envisioning this true form?

Mike [00:31:31]:
First of all, you know, uh, first of all, I probably, uh, probably don't have all the answers now, you know.

Eldar [00:31:38]:
For it, but good disclaimer.

Mike [00:31:39]:
It's a working on it. I'm not ready, you know, but you. But first of all, I would like to be in a place where I physically, I'm in a shape to play basketball and be able to do the, what it requires.

Eldar [00:31:53]:
Okay.

Mike [00:31:53]:
And feel physically. By definition, can you tell us physically, like, not overweight.

Eldar [00:31:58]:
Okay. What does that mean?

Mike [00:32:01]:
That's what we give, like a number. How many pounds I weigh.

Eldar [00:32:04]:
Well, no. Yeah. To you, what's not overweight to me because to me might be overweight, 180.

Mike [00:32:09]:
To 200 pounds around there.

Eldar [00:32:10]:
Okay. Between 182 hundred.

Mike [00:32:12]:
Being able to run and not lose my breath.

Eldar [00:32:14]:
Be able to run and not lose your breath. Okay. For at least because you could still be 100. 8200 and shape.

Mike [00:32:19]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:32:20]:
So those two have to click.

Mike [00:32:21]:
Those have to click. Yeah. You know, probably for at least, you know, I don't know, an hour. Like. No, maybe five games in an hour. Six games in an hour, but like 510 minutes games.

Eldar [00:32:34]:
Good physical shape. Yeah. To be able to last.

Mike [00:32:37]:
At least I'll last an hour. And feel. And feel strong. Feel good. Yeah.

Eldar [00:32:41]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:32:42]:
That's the physical stuff. Right. So I think that would be the first kind of thing next. I would say probably, yeah. Generic, but see things where they are not get upset with other players when they maybe do have bad calls. So I guess not be attached to the outcome. You know, at least enjoy playing basketball for what it is. Right.

Mike [00:33:08]:
And things that kind of come with it.

Eldar [00:33:10]:
How are you planning on accomplishing that?

Mike [00:33:12]:
Understanding the scope of the game. What can happen. You know, as much as I can understand of, you know, I've been playing for a few years, like a good amount of years. So I kind of know what can expect. You can expect some people to call bad calls. You can expect people to follow you. Right. You can expect people to call bad calls on you that you didn't do.

Mike [00:33:30]:
Right. You can expect people to argue over a lot of different things that I've experienced over the years of playing. So if I know that's coming, you know, and I would understand that, hey, you know, this person is probably not doing this intentionally, so I think that would be important. And then the people who are doing intentionally, I would also have to say, you know, that they're probably sick in that moment. I cannot be upset with them for being sick.

Eldar [00:33:56]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:33:57]:
Right. I guess in a general way, engage in the game, but have certain, like, to be able to, in the things that I mentioned, believe in them, you know.

Eldar [00:34:11]:
Okay.

Mike [00:34:12]:
And really understand, because right now I'm just talking surface level.

Eldar [00:34:15]:
Right.

Mike [00:34:15]:
The only things sound good. But yeah, we can all say things, but it doesn't mean we actually do them and believe them. And I think, yeah, to get to understand more what it means to understand that a person is sick and these.

Toliy [00:34:27]:
Things would have to be upkeep 100% of the time of you participating.

Mike [00:34:31]:
Oh, yeah. I'd like to be able to do it every single time. Yes. But I also understand that I may not be a thousand out of thousand.

Toliy [00:34:42]:
And that's all right with you, with coming back to us?

Mike [00:34:45]:
Yeah, if I go in and ten out of 20 times, I fuck up, that's not good. But if I do one.

Eldar [00:34:51]:
Yeah, like, you, measurement. What's the measurement that, like, you could, like, you come back and you're like, okay, cool, I'll play, let's say a week, and out of that week, like, I kind of dropped the ball in two days, three days.

Mike [00:35:01]:
No, I would. I would like to. Out of 100 games, I mean, let's say. I mean, one. One fuck up was, you know, two maybe. I don't know.

Eldar [00:35:10]:
I haven't thought about it, but, yeah, you're tough, bro.

Mike [00:35:14]:
Yeah, but I also, like I said to you guys before, I know you guys didn't believe this, but before when I used to play, before I became more competitive, I generally didn't get upset with other people, and I didn't get upset myself because I was in good shape and I was able to, like, persevere and kind of keep going. But now that I became in worse shape, you know, from, like, you know, my peak or whatever, you know. Now more of those things are frustrating me because I'm not happy internally. So obviously I take it out on other people. Right. Then I get upset with other people. So until I'm happy with myself, how I can engage in the game in a physical shape.

Eldar [00:35:52]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:35:52]:
Then I don't want to engage in that for sure. That's the minimum, you know?

Eldar [00:35:57]:
Okay. That's the minimum.

Mike [00:35:59]:
Yeah. And then I can start working on the mental stuff as well. But I don't think the mental stuff is related to basketball. I think I can work on the mental stuff outside and then just come in as myself in the basketball game, as long as the physical is also in line, you know?

Eldar [00:36:19]:
So what do you see in this, in this, uh, thing that he set out to do?

Toliy [00:36:24]:
I mean, what do you mean?

Eldar [00:36:26]:
What are some problems? Do you see, like he said he wants to, obviously, you know, I mean, look, can he do it? Will he do it? What does it look like in your head?

Toliy [00:36:37]:
Yeah, I think it's what he's talking about here, I think, is, uh. I mean, the way I look at it is extremely difficult.

Eldar [00:36:45]:
Me too.

Toliy [00:36:47]:
I don't view it as realistic, personally.

Eldar [00:36:50]:
Yeah. To me, it's not realistic too, because he didn't outline the whole mental part of it, like, the physical part. I get.

Mike [00:36:56]:
Yeah.

Toliy [00:37:01]:
Out of breath, you know, for example. Right.

Eldar [00:37:03]:
Yeah.

Toliy [00:37:03]:
When you get in. In better shape, for example. Right. You could naturally also, like, on a. I don't know if this will make sense, but, like, elder could go harder for a particular amount of moments, then I can go harder.

Mike [00:37:18]:
Yeah.

Toliy [00:37:19]:
Because he's in better physical shape. Right. And there could be certain times where he's more out of breath than I'm out of breath. That makes sense, right?

Eldar [00:37:26]:
Yeah. 100%.

Mike [00:37:28]:
Okay.

Toliy [00:37:28]:
Right. So I think also, it's like, as your shape increases, you could actually do more. And it's not like you're gonna say.

Eldar [00:37:36]:
Okay, like, you're expanding more energy.

Toliy [00:37:38]:
Yeah. You're not gonna be at capacity 100. And let's just say right now, if a trained in shape person capacity is 100. Right. For example, let's say, like a MBA, sick, trained athlete. Right. That's young and in six, sick diet, sick shape. Right.

Toliy [00:37:52]:
And you get to, let's just say that point, right. And your capacity of play right now is ten. Right. For example, it's not that, like, when you get to a hundred, if you get to 100, you're not gonna play at ten is what I'm saying. That way then I could say that, like, yeah, like, if you're the six train athlete and you're just like walking up on the court, you could definitely get to a point where you're not ever out of breath, for example. Right. But when you get to 100, you're gonna want to play more than comparing.

Mike [00:38:19]:
It the way I get out of shape now, which is like, after running three, four times up the court, I'm already done.

Toliy [00:38:25]:
Yes.

Mike [00:38:26]:
I'm not trying to say that I will never run out of shape if I run for 8 hours straight, that I'm gonna be just fucking regular breathing.

Eldar [00:38:32]:
No, he's talking about the output of yours because you feel you're stronger and you're in shape.

Mike [00:38:37]:
Yeah, I understand. You'll be able to do more. You'll get out.

Eldar [00:38:40]:
It's not talking about just running up another court. You might be able to do more in defense or something like that. And where you might like, oh, you might be judging you wrong. You know what I'm saying?

Mike [00:38:47]:
Yeah, yeah.

Eldar [00:38:48]:
That you might be actually in shape, but you're not a shape. In vice versa. You might be out of shape, but you think you're in shape.

Mike [00:38:52]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Eldar [00:38:53]:
But the physical part I don't have.

Toliy [00:38:55]:
I didn't have.

Mike [00:38:56]:
Were you guys saying about the mental? Mental, you can say, yeah, because I don't have anything. Because right now this is not a priority. I'm not dying to go back to basketball. I also don't care if I ever go back to playing basketball currently because I'm not wanting to sacrifice what the stuff that I've experienced.

Eldar [00:39:12]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:39:12]:
Recently.

Eldar [00:39:12]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:39:13]:
In basketball, I don't want to go back to that.

Eldar [00:39:14]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:39:15]:
So if it means I don't get to play these kind of games and just shoot around, which I enjoy, I still extract fun from it.

Eldar [00:39:21]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:39:21]:
Shooting around, whatever. I enjoy it still. You know, if I never get back to it, I think I have other fish to fry. But if I fry those of the fish, I will easily come back to basketball.

Eldar [00:39:32]:
Yeah.

Toliy [00:39:33]:
Yeah. I see it like as like the reasons that you're potential staying away from basketball. I viewed that. I think that like, those, those like, same things are probably going to visit you in other parts of your life.

Mike [00:39:47]:
And so why wouldn't I stay away from a place that I know does not benefit me and fix on the. Fix those things which. And then go and play basketball.

Eldar [00:39:58]:
I mean, but it could be a good challenge. Basketball is a very, I would say, like a closed off environment. Right.

Mike [00:40:06]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:40:07]:
It's like you already know it. It's familiar to you.

Mike [00:40:10]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:40:10]:
So the responses and the stimuli that's going to be there, it's probably very consistent.

Toliy [00:40:14]:
And I would say it's even easier.

Eldar [00:40:17]:
It's easier to expect and train in it. That's how I would see it.

Toliy [00:40:21]:
Yeah. Then the daily challenges that. Those same things that appear, that whatever issues you're having, for example, in basketball, I think, for example, you banning basketball, I think that you're gonna probably. I think you're probably gonna have to.

Mike [00:40:34]:
Ban a lot of different things 100%.

Toliy [00:40:37]:
And I'm not sure what you're gonna be able to participate in where you won't have. Because at the end of the day, it. I think it's you. Right. Like. Or, like, you know, anyone who's having, you know, something like, it's always like, you know, in. In them. Right.

Toliy [00:40:49]:
So there's basketball or something else. Those same things are going to pop up there. And I'm not sure if you're just gonna.

Mike [00:40:55]:
Yeah, but I'm not quitting basketball and then just saying, okay, I'm not gonna do anything. I quit basketball because I don't find it a positive thing the way that I was engaging with it. But I am working on things, and I. That will contribute to me positively so that I can potentially one day go back to basketball but also do other things. I'm taking this away because it's a distraction that it's not serving currently. You know, like, I have. I have.

Eldar [00:41:21]:
It's not. Also, let's use it properly where basketball inherently doesn't have anything good or bad in it. It's the way you engage in it.

Mike [00:41:28]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:41:29]:
Your engagement.

Mike [00:41:29]:
Yeah. And I'm not able to engage in it in a way that I would like.

Eldar [00:41:32]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:41:33]:
So I'm choosing to stay away.

Eldar [00:41:34]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:41:35]:
You know, and the same time, I'm also working on the things that cause me not being able to engage in it properly.

Eldar [00:41:44]:
I mean, but then, you know what, Mike? Now that I think about it, your duty is to go back to basketball.

Mike [00:41:49]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:41:50]:
Not that, you know how you say, like, you kind of, like, loosely say, hey, like, I might not even go, I don't even care about basketball like that, based on what you said. And because basketball is a challenging thing for you, it has the most amount of potential for you, I think, for growth. For growth. You know what I mean? Because. I mean, because if you can then conquer this. Because if you're saying that, hey, everything else is kind of, whatever, I'm cool with it. Right. The basketball is the biggest fish right now.

Eldar [00:42:19]:
Yeah. I think basketball is your ultimate goal or your ultimate test.

Mike [00:42:23]:
It's. It's a test for sure, but I don't think it's the biggest fish. Like, if I. What else?

Eldar [00:42:28]:
You quit? You know what I'm saying?

Mike [00:42:29]:
What else did I quit? I quit engaging with my family the way I used to engage. Right. I quit my. My business the way I used to engage in it. Right.

Eldar [00:42:40]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:42:40]:
Quit controlling my.

Eldar [00:42:42]:
Well, since you didn't, though. Right. You learn how to be within it.

Mike [00:42:47]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:42:48]:
Right. Basketball. You actually quit.

Mike [00:42:49]:
Yeah, I actually did quit. Yeah.

Eldar [00:42:51]:
You know, because.

Mike [00:42:52]:
Because it's. Basketball requires a. Not just mental but also physical. And when your physical lacks.

Eldar [00:42:57]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:42:57]:
It makes a lot worse for the mental. My opinion.

Eldar [00:43:01]:
Okay.

Mike [00:43:01]:
You know, but I could. I'm open if you guys don't agree with that.

Eldar [00:43:07]:
No. Like, based on what you're saying, I think basketball actually is providing you the biggest challenge, which is. Okay. Not to be ready for the challenge yet, and. But ultimately, if that's the test where it gives you a lot of potential challenge, you should definitely take that test.

Mike [00:43:20]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:43:21]:
You should strive to try to pass that as. Because there's a lot of character development, it sounds like, within basketball, and those are the things that you can identify yourself.

Toliy [00:43:28]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:43:31]:
Build character.

Toliy [00:43:32]:
I also think that, like, if everything is within, I don't see that, like, whatever challenges are with basketball, I don't see those just, like, evolving into a new form in something else that you.

Mike [00:43:45]:
Do, because it's still.

Toliy [00:43:48]:
There's nothing wrong with basketball inherently.

Mike [00:43:50]:
No.

Toliy [00:43:50]:
For example, if they're within you, I think that you're gonna bring those out in the other forms of things that you do. I'm saying I'm not sure you're gonna be able to quit everything.

Mike [00:43:59]:
No. You know, I agree what you're saying, but I'm also saying I quit basketball, but I'm still working on those things that I don't like about myself when I engage in basketball. It's not like I just quit basketball. And I just said, okay, you know what? Basketball is dead. I'm gonna. I'm gonna now just have more free time. I'm gonna read or I'm gonna, I don't know, smoke cigarettes.

Eldar [00:44:19]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:44:19]:
I actually quit basketball so I could free up the time to work on those things that are important.

Eldar [00:44:24]:
Give me a frustration that you had in basketball that you're working outside, and I want to see. I want to compare it.

Mike [00:44:31]:
Well, probably, like, in a general thing. Right. Seeking out extra happiness from external kind of thing. Right. Allowing the referees, okay. To dictate whether I'm angry or not because they're calling back calls.

Eldar [00:44:46]:
Okay.

Mike [00:44:46]:
Right.

Eldar [00:44:47]:
Okay.

Mike [00:44:48]:
So working on understanding that concept of, like, the external forces should not be able to upset me or make me, you know, I'm not sure if they make me happy, but they should not upset me to that point that I'm angry about what's happening on the court.

Eldar [00:45:06]:
So you're just thinking about it. You're not actually practicing it anywhere else, like, in the natural life. What are some areas where you're practicing it?

Mike [00:45:12]:
Some areas that I'm practicing it because.

Eldar [00:45:14]:
Basketball was an area where you could have practiced it.

Mike [00:45:16]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:45:17]:
Where's an actual life example where you're practicing?

Mike [00:45:19]:
I think I'm in this. I'm learning, understanding it now, trying to see things for what they are. I'm not in a stage where I'm ready to practice it, but right now, I'm definitely trying to read more, listen to more books, discuss more, obviously understand these things and.

Eldar [00:45:33]:
Yeah. Because I think that's why I'm asking. That is, I think it's very important to actually put yourself in that predicament, an actual real life.

Mike [00:45:40]:
No, I agree with you saying. Because then you have. But the thing is.

Eldar [00:45:42]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:45:43]:
I have to first develop the knowledge before I'm say, all right, I'm ready to go test it.

Eldar [00:45:46]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:45:46]:
And I'm not ready to say that I've developed knowledge.

Eldar [00:45:48]:
Yeah. What I was thinking about is, like, like, if you have problem with competition, for example, on a basketball level, but also has required, you know, be in shape and stuff, like, maybe you got engaged with, like, a board game, like chess, for example, if you said, hey, I'm actually playing chess. It's competitive and I want to win, but it doesn't require x, y and z. But I'm still testing myself and how I'm reacting and stuff like that, like, you know what I mean? Then I'm like, okay, cool. There is some kind of, like, correlation between what you're doing.

Mike [00:46:13]:
No, I don't think. I don't think that the things that I'm trying to crack are like, yeah, easily cracked. And it's like I'm ready to now go into action. I don't want to jump in blindly and say, you know what? I quit basketball. Let me go play competitive tennis, you know?

Eldar [00:46:26]:
Yeah, yeah, no, that's very close.

Mike [00:46:29]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:46:31]:
Like, chess is a different.

Mike [00:46:32]:
It is. Yeah.

Eldar [00:46:33]:
Animal.

Mike [00:46:34]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:46:34]:
You know?

Mike [00:46:35]:
Yeah. But, yeah, I'm not ready to, like, unpackage that yet, but I am trying to understand them or see things for what they are.

Eldar [00:46:44]:
Right.

Mike [00:46:44]:
You guys saying I'm trying to understand them more so that I have a clear understanding of what's actually happening, you know, and then when I, you know.

Eldar [00:46:53]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:46:53]:
Learn to, when I believe in that or that becomes part of belief system, my value system, then I'll be ready to go engage in that, you know?

Eldar [00:47:03]:
You know. Hmm. Okay.

Mike [00:47:06]:
Just now I'm not.

Eldar [00:47:07]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:47:08]:
You know, because I don't feel like I'm ready at the point that the things that I'm talking about understanding.

Eldar [00:47:13]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:47:14]:
You know, the way that I like to engage in it.

Eldar [00:47:16]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:47:16]:
I don't have a full grasp on it.

Toliy [00:47:18]:
But do you think, for example, in this example that it's, I guess it could be similar to like, you know, a person, for example, who is sick with something is prescribing the medication for himself of what they need to do or don't do?

Mike [00:47:31]:
I mean, sure, it's possible you guys have some other option for me.

Toliy [00:47:36]:
Do you think that I'll do well.

Eldar [00:47:37]:
Now you go into a different realm completely. I'm still thinking about his ref example.

Toliy [00:47:41]:
Yeah. Like I hear him talking about it and I hear, and like, I feel he's very detailed.

Eldar [00:47:47]:
She's not detailed at all.

Toliy [00:47:48]:
Well, no, no, like in like the things he's making, like, like, like, like.

Eldar [00:47:54]:
Like it sounds like I didn't find that to be very detailed at all.

Toliy [00:47:59]:
Yeah, yeah. I don't think he has a detailed like plan because I'm saying to begin with that I think like what he's, what I hear him saying that he wants to do, I don't see it being realistic personally, but I'm saying that like when he's talking about it, like, like he's making decisions as to what, like he needs to do or not to do to progress.

Eldar [00:48:26]:
Yeah, I mean, of course he made the decision, so he has to be.

Toliy [00:48:29]:
Well, that I'm saying. So, pilot, is it a, is it a scenario where someone who's, you know, like, let's say, sick with something, it.

Eldar [00:48:35]:
Could be prescribing, could be medication themselves? It could be, it could be. Okay, that's what we have in this conversation in the first place, to ask them, find out the details behind it. The example of the referees is a good example. Right. He said, hey, like I'm attaching myself to the external factors of referee calling the calls for our team because he has an attachment to winning or the team to win. Right. And then when the team is not winning because the unjust refs. He's getting upset with the refs.

Eldar [00:49:06]:
Right. He's getting angry. So he has anger towards the refs.

Toliy [00:49:12]:
Mm hmm.

Eldar [00:49:12]:
You know what I mean? I'd like to unpack that more than anything. Right. So he's just saying, like, look, I recognize that this is what's happening to me. I'm getting angry at the refs. Therefore, if I'm getting angry at the refs, I can't engage this because I don't like the way I feel. You know what I'm saying? Mm hmm. I would like to find out, what's the plan in action here to not be able to be attached anymore. So they are coming of the game or whatever, or the calls.

Eldar [00:49:39]:
So the refs are just fucking flies that are buzzing about.

Toliy [00:49:43]:
Yeah. Or, like, for example, if, for example, you could guarantee that when. When a ref makes a call, you are able to, like, you know, I don't know, slow down in a particular, like, way or something like that. Or if the, like, like, I'm saying that, like, if you knew in the moment of when the call is being made, the reality of what's going on. Right. There's no way that you would react in a poor way.

Eldar [00:50:09]:
Agreed. That's why my question is why is he getting so angry and why is he getting so attached.

Toliy [00:50:15]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:50:16]:
Where the refs are dictating his happiness and that's what he's avoiding. Right.

Mike [00:50:21]:
Yeah, that's one of the things.

Eldar [00:50:22]:
Oh, yeah. That's just one. But that's a real life example.

Mike [00:50:25]:
You gave us a.

Eldar [00:50:26]:
Because I remember you even talking about that where you like, yo, I'm so frustrated. I realized I'm getting upset with the refs.

Mike [00:50:31]:
Yeah. The reason I was getting upset, I don't know if you remember, we're talking, also said that I was upset that the refs, they come and they don't actually give an effort into what they're doing. Like, do you remember this or no.

Eldar [00:50:45]:
I do remember this. Yeah.

Mike [00:50:46]:
Now that people go and engage in stuff, but they don't actually give an effort, a good effort in what they're doing. And that also bothered me too.

Eldar [00:50:56]:
Yeah. Because I felt like you would have to ask.

Mike [00:50:59]:
I couldn't. I, like, I quit the basketball team because I felt that I wasn't able to play to the way that I know I can, my potential, because I'm not in shape now. I cannot play that. So for me, it's unfair for me to show up and play on the team when I know that I can't do what I know that I would be able to do before, but.

Eldar [00:51:17]:
Okay, cool. And that's very good, very insightful. Because now you're saying, you putting a value there on yourself, saying, hey, I'm coming to the thing. If I do come back, I'm gonna be prepared and ready to give it my all. How do you ensure that the individuals right on the team and the refs are gonna do the same?

Mike [00:51:38]:
Can't do that.

Eldar [00:51:39]:
But you wanna have that. But you almost do.

Mike [00:51:42]:
I have accepted that, though. I mean, I have to accept that I cannot control what other people are gonna do, but I can't control myself. I have a choice if I come.

Eldar [00:51:50]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:51:50]:
Prepare it or not.

Eldar [00:51:51]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:51:51]:
And that's all I can control.

Eldar [00:51:53]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:51:53]:
Just me. But.

Eldar [00:51:54]:
But which I think that there's some kind of injustice you might be doing to yourself if you putting attachment on that thing.

Mike [00:52:00]:
On what?

Eldar [00:52:01]:
If you're saying that to me, it is important for me to come in my best shape for this particular game.

Mike [00:52:07]:
So I can have stuck and then expect that from other people, then yes.

Eldar [00:52:11]:
No, but what I'm saying is that I think that you're springboarding yourself with doing that to yourself. Was subjecting yourself to it. I think that you potentially can be doing that unconsciously.

Mike [00:52:23]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:52:24]:
By holding an attachment to the standard that you're holding yourself to.

Mike [00:52:28]:
But then should I. But I shouldn't hold myself to that standard.

Eldar [00:52:31]:
I'm not sure this is the hunch that I'm getting that because you holding yourself to such high standard, being around the people who are going to be a lot lower, is. I'm not sure how that's gonna fall on you, man.

Mike [00:52:45]:
No, I understand what you're predicting, what you're saying.

Eldar [00:52:47]:
What I'm predicting?

Mike [00:52:48]:
Yeah, what you're predicting. And I think it's possible, but that's why I said before, I have the angles covered. I don't want to do this.

Toliy [00:52:55]:
Yeah, yeah. And not in the same thing, but I was thinking about on a different thing. But I think it's a similar concept to what he was saying before about when he was talking about being in shape. I was thinking of, like, for example, if you're get to a point where you're in sick shape, right. You obviously have to work hard to get this right, and there's gonna be a lot put into it. Right. I would also think that, like, if there's gonna be scenarios where someone, for example, fouls him or something like that happens, like whether he feels it's unintentional or not. And he gets injured from it.

Toliy [00:53:28]:
I think it'll be a bigger fault.

Eldar [00:53:31]:
It could be.

Toliy [00:53:31]:
And more. Yeah. Potentially more anger, because, like, he's working so hard to get into this kind of thing, and then he could feel in that moment that someone's been going.

Mike [00:53:41]:
About it in that way. Doesn't sound right.

Toliy [00:53:43]:
What do you mean?

Mike [00:53:44]:
Like, getting attached to get into shape. Right. That attachment. It shouldn't be. The reason to get into shape is just to be in good shape and good health.

Toliy [00:53:53]:
No, I know.

Mike [00:53:54]:
I'm doing that. Then I'm not gonna succeed.

Toliy [00:53:56]:
No, I'm saying that about doing everything right.

Mike [00:53:58]:
Not just.

Toliy [00:53:58]:
No, I'm saying that, like, if you're working hard at getting into good shape, right. And, like, I don't know. Let's just say there's a game where there's, like, you know, someone's not happy with some calls, you know, back and forth, and you get shelved in the back or something like that. And then you injure yourself in that moment. I see a downfall, where you could get, like, more upset with somebody.

Mike [00:54:22]:
Yeah, but that's. With everything in life, there's always unexpected things, whether it's basketball or self development. You know, there's a million different factors. Right. You work it on yourself, and all of a sudden, something happens. You're right. You're working on this.

Eldar [00:54:35]:
Yeah, but you're doing this, Mike, also with an attempt to think. And if you're gonna think, you should also pay attention to that. Well, of course you know what I'm saying. Because.

Mike [00:54:43]:
Because 100% will.

Eldar [00:54:45]:
Yeah, because.

Mike [00:54:46]:
But it shouldn't discourage me from doing these things. Like, just because something can happen.

Eldar [00:54:52]:
It becomes a balance between being too hard on yourself and self love, of accepting yourself.

Mike [00:55:00]:
Yeah.

Toliy [00:55:01]:
Yeah. Like, I feel like the world that you're outlining sounds worse than the world now, I would almost say.

Eldar [00:55:09]:
Well. Well, I mean, he didn't think it through, though, either, so you have to. You can't.

Toliy [00:55:14]:
Yeah, it just sounds like what you're saying, like, it just sounds like you're gonna be so hard on yourself, on the whole situation, like, so much that I don't think that you're gonna be able to enjoy it to begin with.

Mike [00:55:26]:
Well, I enjoyed basketball before without the competitive stuff. You know? I don't know. Maybe I was lying to myself. Maybe that wasn't the case. But I enjoyed basketball for a while without.

Eldar [00:55:38]:
Okay, so then. So then here's the question then, right? Then. If you're saying that if before you were able to enjoy basketball without the competitive edge. And now you have competitive edge. How do you get rid of the competitive edge? I don't know if you got it in you, right? Cause, like. Like, it's like a bug. I was just saying, how do you get rid of the competitive edge?

Toliy [00:55:58]:
I could get you a guarantee one way. I think. I think my just kind of understanding of these things, like, certain things that I am bad at, right? Bad at. I'm less competitive a bit in them because I understand, like, my capabilities. The better I get at them.

Eldar [00:56:19]:
Mmm.

Toliy [00:56:20]:
The more my competitiveness drives up.

Eldar [00:56:22]:
Not.

Mike [00:56:23]:
That's what happened for sure.

Toliy [00:56:24]:
An example, I was playing at some point ping pong. Not consistently, but, like, enough times. You know, sometimes even me and Mike would go to, like, where was that tennis player? Somewhere.

Mike [00:56:36]:
Asian party.

Eldar [00:56:36]:
Yeah.

Toliy [00:56:37]:
Right? And we would play, right? And, like, you know, I don't know, go to, like, family friend's house. We would sometimes play. And just like, I don't know. In high school, I played a lot. I was in the ping pong team there. Like, I did the ping pong club there, right? And I would just play pretty often. Even got to a point where I got my own racket, everything, right? And then, like, I wasn't playing often, but again, I was good enough where I, like, I felt competitive and I felt like I could hold my own with, like, not a pro, but like, you know, a decently good player.

Eldar [00:57:06]:
Yeah.

Toliy [00:57:07]:
Right. Like, what I viewed as that. Right? And then, like. And then I stopped playing pretty much completely. Right? And then, like, I don't know, this was like years ago. And then just recently, we're at a family friend's house. They have a ping pong table, like the same one that we always grew up playing on. We would go to their house, and their daughter's now fiance was there.

Toliy [00:57:29]:
And he plays. He's actually a competitive, actual, like, semi pro tennis player. He's very good at tennis. Like, he's like a ranked player, right, in, like, the standings, right? And he also plays ping pong. He's definitely better at tennis and ping pong, but he's pretty good. And him and my dad were playing, and my dad, I don't know how he has the ability. He could just not play for years, and then he could just pick up a racket and he needs, like, ten minutes of warm up, and he's just.

Eldar [00:57:58]:
Like, he's in it.

Toliy [00:57:58]:
He's in it for me. I'm like, I don't feel shit. Like, I just suck, right? I think Mike's, like, a next level version of that, he maybe need, like, a month of straight play. Right. Like. Like that. Right. And then they're like, you want to get next? And I'm like, sure.

Toliy [00:58:15]:
Yeah. And then we start playing, and at first I feel the competitiveness, so I'm like, yo, fuck. Like, this guy's dusting me, right. I started playing. I get to a point where I like, yo, I fucking suck.

Eldar [00:58:28]:
Mm hmm.

Toliy [00:58:28]:
And I just don't even want to play. Like, I didn't even have that then. That competitive edge has for a while is gone. And then him, my dad got next, and then they ended the game, and they're like, you want to play now? Like, no, I think I'm just gonna watch for now. It was more entertaining for me at that time to watch my dad and play because they were having competitive games. And watching those competitive games.

Eldar [00:58:50]:
Yeah.

Toliy [00:58:50]:
Was more fun for me than playing now than playing.

Eldar [00:58:53]:
Wow.

Toliy [00:58:54]:
Even though if we played, if me and him played back in the day, we would be much closer. I would beat him sometimes, and he would beat me sometimes, and we would have that competition. So I think one way to lose a competitiveness and then you think is, yeah, it's probably to, like, suck, but then when you get better at something, for me, at least.

Mike [00:59:13]:
Well, yeah. I think that's what part of contributed to me being more competitive is because I became better in basketball.

Eldar [00:59:19]:
And how do you unbite that bug?

Toliy [00:59:23]:
Yeah. Like, I know you're not willing to just suck to get worse. Right.

Mike [00:59:27]:
Yeah. I'm not trying to be like Julio running around the court. Yeah. You know.

Eldar [00:59:32]:
You know what I'm saying? So I think. I think. I think. Yeah. I think that you've gotten. You've gotten that bug to bite you. You felt maybe the fruits of it as well.

Mike [00:59:44]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:59:44]:
And then you also felt the other side of it. Yeah.

Mike [00:59:47]:
But the fruits are not rooted in a good thing.

Toliy [00:59:50]:
Yeah. And I probably say that Mike's suffering, probably in basketball, went up the most because he got to a point where he was playing and he got to a point where he was in very good shape.

Eldar [01:00:00]:
Yeah. And that was tasted 100%.

Toliy [01:00:03]:
And now that's tasted that competitive bug.

Eldar [01:00:05]:
You cannot taste it.

Toliy [01:00:06]:
You can't untaste it. Unless he right now says, I'm gonna gain 100 pounds.

Eldar [01:00:10]:
Mm hmm.

Toliy [01:00:10]:
And, like, only be able to run on one side of the court, for example.

Eldar [01:00:13]:
Yeah.

Toliy [01:00:14]:
I think that he could lose that competitiveness.

Eldar [01:00:16]:
Yeah. And forget about you talking. Right, right.

Toliy [01:00:20]:
But because I don't think he's willing. I mean, I don't think he's willing to do that. Yeah. What you're asking is a very good question.

Eldar [01:00:29]:
That's what I'm here for.

Toliy [01:00:30]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:00:30]:
Ask questions. Yeah.

Toliy [01:00:31]:
Because, like.

Mike [01:00:32]:
Yeah.

Toliy [01:00:32]:
Yeah. Yeah. I see, like.

Eldar [01:00:34]:
Yeah. Like, you, because you remember yourself before, say, hey, I was not competitive, and I was having fun. Now, I think the key is to be competitive and have fun for you. I think for me it is, because I'm not sure if you can.

Mike [01:00:50]:
What I'd like to do, but I don't know when I'm gonna get to it, and I'm not sure.

Eldar [01:00:54]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:00:55]:
If it's gonna be possible in this life.

Eldar [01:00:58]:
Okay.

Mike [01:00:58]:
You know?

Eldar [01:00:59]:
Yeah.

Toliy [01:01:00]:
I don't know this conversation. I feel like Mike should play basketball even more.

Eldar [01:01:04]:
Well, that's because what I was telling him before, that the biggest challenge here and the lowest hanging fruit here is actually on the basketball court.

Mike [01:01:12]:
Why would you go to a knife with a gunfight?

Eldar [01:01:13]:
The. I think you're underestimating yourself.

Toliy [01:01:16]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:01:17]:
Okay. So.

Eldar [01:01:19]:
No, but that's also wrong. No, I think that you have to evaluate it. I think you actually have to evaluate it. I think you have to jump the gun. I think you have to evaluate why'd you get here in the first place, you know? Yeah. So. Yeah, but I think he's. He's doing this because he's, um.

Eldar [01:01:36]:
He's not sure because he didn't really dive into it the way you should be diving into it.

Toliy [01:01:42]:
Yeah. But still made the decision to stop.

Eldar [01:01:46]:
Yeah. I mean, he. He has the right to do so. Yeah. No, as a person, obviously. Yeah.

Toliy [01:01:52]:
It also. Yeah. See, it also still stems with, like. Like, feeling suffering, for example. Right. And then making decisions and stuff like that. Like that. That's all.

Toliy [01:02:03]:
Like, I mean, we all have the right to do whatever. Right or wrong.

Eldar [01:02:06]:
Yeah.

Toliy [01:02:07]:
But I guess if we're trying to examine it.

Eldar [01:02:09]:
Yeah.

Toliy [01:02:10]:
On a situation by situation. Aces.

Eldar [01:02:13]:
Yeah.

Toliy [01:02:14]:
Yet it's interesting still. How. Yeah. Still. The decisions are always going to be made.

Eldar [01:02:21]:
Well, decisions are made because pain is felt. Yes. And you're going to work out of the. Whatever knowledge you have in that moment. Right. In order to relieve yourself of that pain. Right. And obviously, what we're talking about, again, back to our subject, is the fact that sometimes we feel pain and we can't really identify where it's coming from, what it is.

Eldar [01:02:44]:
Right. And we're trying to solve the externals.

Toliy [01:02:46]:
Oh, no, I.

Mike [01:02:47]:
Should you keep going. Should I keep going and suffering through pain instead of taking time off and understanding where it came from or should I keep forcing myself to suffer in basketball during and as well, after?

Eldar [01:03:00]:
Well, no, I think that. I think that because you. You just identify certain inabilities in basketball that are actually causing you suffering.

Mike [01:03:08]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:03:08]:
I think that if you're not happy with them and they're actually causing you pain, I think you should lay off 100%. However, I do think that because they're very closely related to basketball, those problems, and. And also, they can also extend other parts. Yes. In your life, think basketball is a good utility to then go back and practice.

Mike [01:03:31]:
Well, that's why I said those things that I would like to solve. The mental ones, that I don't know what they are yet, but they're there.

Eldar [01:03:36]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:03:36]:
Well, you see that when I solve them.

Eldar [01:03:38]:
Yes.

Mike [01:03:38]:
Then I will play basketball. But I don't need to play basketball to solve them. I need. I can solve them and then go.

Eldar [01:03:45]:
That's why. I know, but that's why I asked you for examples in real life or what you're doing and how you're practicing and you couldn't really tell me.

Mike [01:03:51]:
Yeah, I haven't. I mean, I just quit basketball.

Eldar [01:03:53]:
You know what I'm saying? So. And. Yeah, and I think the basketball totally said, I think your basketball problems are going to extend into your real life problems.

Mike [01:04:04]:
What do you mean you think they are? 100%. I mean, it's not like all of a sudden something happens in basketball. It's me.

Eldar [01:04:12]:
Same you. Exactly. So. And basketball is very familiar thing for you. You know what I'm saying? You can identify those things very easily.

Mike [01:04:19]:
100%.

Eldar [01:04:19]:
Versus life. Versus life can be very tricky.

Toliy [01:04:23]:
Yes.

Eldar [01:04:24]:
You don't know when it's gonna come, how it's gonna come, which form is gonna come. It's just gonna come, and you're gonna be stopped.

Toliy [01:04:29]:
I would almost. Yeah. After you said that, it made me think that I would almost argue that it would take you longer to solve the problems that you have in basketball, outside of basketball, through life, than to go back into basketball and solve it there.

Eldar [01:04:46]:
Yeah. Because now you're no longer coming back as the same unconscious mic that experiencing those problems. But you're carrying something else within you. You're carrying an observer with you. Awareness. Awareness, correct. You're bringing awareness now to the situation, and now you're like, okay, cool, hit me, hit me. I'm gonna try this.

Eldar [01:05:04]:
I'm gonna try that. This is gonna happen. This is gonna happen. And then you go back and you value to yourself what happened.

Mike [01:05:09]:
But the thing is, maybe I can jump over what you guys are saying with the mental, but I can't jump over the physical stuff.

Eldar [01:05:15]:
No, that's perfectly fine. That's perfectly fine. I think that you. You get to the physical part.

Mike [01:05:20]:
I can say I can. Okay. If I agree with your approach, with what you guys saying, go try it in basketball. Sure. Maybe I can.

Eldar [01:05:25]:
No, no. I think it's inevitable for you to go back. Yeah.

Mike [01:05:28]:
I think. I think it's possible too, because I do. I do like basketball. And as became better, that's the reason.

Eldar [01:05:34]:
I think that's the reason why you have to go back, because you actually like it. If now you didn't like basketball, this would have been a much easier equation. You know what I'm saying?

Mike [01:05:42]:
You just forget about I'm not a terrible player.

Eldar [01:05:46]:
And now you've also discovered Mike as a basketball player who's in shape, who tasted victories, who tasted defeats and stuff like that. And there's something about you that you actualize and you like and enjoy.

Mike [01:05:57]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:05:58]:
You know what I mean?

Mike [01:05:59]:
I'm not in the physical form. I cannot.

Eldar [01:06:00]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:06:01]:
I cannot do it.

Eldar [01:06:02]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:06:02]:
And also the routine afterwards, too. That was a big spark. Stop to.

Eldar [01:06:07]:
Mm hmm.

Mike [01:06:08]:
Constant knee pain back.

Eldar [01:06:10]:
Sure.

Mike [01:06:10]:
You know, aches like soreness, like. Yeah, I'm not responsible enough to fucking ice every time I tried it. Did it like, you're hurting, I'm hurting. Why would I go again? Put myself. Physical pain and mental pain.

Eldar [01:06:22]:
I agree.

Mike [01:06:22]:
You know, so it was a decision to, like, stop until I can really think about it more. That's why I don't have answers for you guys.

Eldar [01:06:28]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:06:28]:
That's why it is very vague, but I know that I cannot engage with it.

Eldar [01:06:31]:
Yeah, no, it's fine. That's your choice. And I. I wouldn't force you to go back. That's a choice that you gotta make.

Mike [01:06:37]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:06:38]:
You know, ultimately.

Mike [01:06:39]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:06:39]:
I can only make. Give you suggestions.

Mike [01:06:41]:
No, you know what I mean? Yeah. I understand you guys perspective about the mental challenge and, you know, being competitive, but also that attachment. I get it. I think it's interesting challenge, you know?

Eldar [01:06:52]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:06:53]:
And I mean, hopefully I'll try it, but, you know.

Eldar [01:06:57]:
Yeah.

Toliy [01:06:57]:
Just. I think it's harder to replicate those basketball things, scenarios to, like, consciously replicate them and just in real life examples and have they enough opportunities to practice them compared to basketballs, like, concentrated. And the good thing is that in any place, pretty much that you go, or I've ever gone clean, the place we go now, like, there's gonna be a bunch of idiots.

Mike [01:07:24]:
Oh, yeah.

Eldar [01:07:25]:
Oh, yeah.

Mike [01:07:26]:
But the thing is, I see them for, for idiots.

Toliy [01:07:28]:
Yeah. No, I'm not saying is that it's. It's way easier to, to practice in basketball than it is going to be.

Mike [01:07:37]:
Therapy workers for the practice. You have to get some knowledge. You have to get some understanding, or you just go practice.

Eldar [01:07:42]:
I mean, the part of, part of training is, I think, you know, sometimes you got to jump into the pool to see what you got. You're not gonna do breaststrokes right away. Might do just doggy style and, you know, swim up, you know what I mean? But one day you'll find out how to do backwards. Yeah.

Toliy [01:07:56]:
That's also why, like, you know, you know, one of the goals could just be, you know, partially have to do with, like, awareness.

Eldar [01:08:03]:
I think that's a big one. Yeah.

Toliy [01:08:06]:
You know, and then you could just get better and better. But you have guaranteed, like, scenarios because you can guarantee that people are gonna be people and they're not, you know, probably not working on the same things that you'll be working on.

Eldar [01:08:21]:
So what are suggestions? What are our suggestions to the people that are trying to solve their problems but only seeing the external, external factors and not actually seeing the internal, the real truth behind it?

Mike [01:08:32]:
Yeah. The question that comes to mind is how do you teach somebody to buy into themselves and realize that you should only rely on yourself and your own power? How do you, how do you explain that to somebody? Like, the concept, like, yeah, you know, tap in, tap into yourself. How do you do that? Because I think that's where all the answers are for everything.

Eldar [01:08:56]:
Well, the ones that are kind of maybe tainted already. They probably need a little bit of guidance in the beginning. Right. If they can have a good teacher, a book or something, that's gonna be able to give them some kind of kickstart. Mm hmm. You know, and then when you finally, you know, I guess, uncovered the fact that you can think, then you're a little bit better, you know, but somebody has to point you in that direction that you have those things being at first, you know.

Mike [01:09:31]:
Yeah. How do you, how do you like. I guess.

Eldar [01:09:35]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:09:35]:
How do you solidify those things if you've understood a little bit that, you know, the power is within you, you know, you have these great abilities potentials.

Eldar [01:09:44]:
The general answer is practice.

Mike [01:09:45]:
Practice.

Eldar [01:09:48]:
Yeah. If you keep practicing, you have to also like it, I think, you know.

Mike [01:09:53]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:09:53]:
If you don't like it, if you don't like it, then you don't, you probably won't be consistent with it and practice it more and more how to like it. Is the question. Then it goes back to the teacher. I think the teacher has to be enthusiastic enough and good enough to spark interest, you know what I mean? In you and show you, like, what we discovered, you know? It's almost like a treasure, you know? You're going, going, and you found the treasure, you know? And you're like, holy shit, that's within me. Yeah. That's so cool. You know?

Mike [01:10:33]:
Yeah, I guess. Yeah, it sounds like. Yeah, for sure. Practice is biggest, right. Getting. Getting more knowledge about that topic. That subject.

Eldar [01:10:44]:
Mm hmm.

Mike [01:10:46]:
And then going out and practicing it.

Eldar [01:10:48]:
Yeah. Yeah. It's not easy.

Mike [01:10:55]:
It's not. Yeah. You know, because of our habits, probably.

Eldar [01:10:57]:
Right. Yeah. To tell. To constantly rewire your brain to say that. Okay, cool. I'm experiencing pain and a problem right now, but the reason why I'm feeling this pain is because I'm not seeing things for what they are. How do I get to see it for what it is? And as soon as you find out things for what they are, pain disappears. Based on what we talked about earlier.

Mike [01:11:19]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:11:21]:
So then what are we talking about? This is the key to ridding yourself from suffering.

Mike [01:11:30]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:11:31]:
And whichever sphere that you're going through. You know what I mean?

Mike [01:11:35]:
Yeah. So. So if you. If you learn to rid yourself of suffering in one sphere, does not necessarily mean you would know how to unlock it in all other spheres.

Eldar [01:11:44]:
Right.

Mike [01:11:44]:
Or does it?

Eldar [01:11:46]:
It should.

Mike [01:11:47]:
It should.

Eldar [01:11:47]:
It should. Because pain is pain. Right. It translates into whatever.

Mike [01:11:52]:
But the sources are different.

Eldar [01:11:53]:
No, doesn't matter.

Mike [01:11:55]:
Doesn't matter.

Eldar [01:11:55]:
Doesn't matter. Though. I don't think that's why, with your examples, is that the things that you're experiencing in basketball are probably very significant in your real life, gonna, you know, propose challenges to you.

Mike [01:12:14]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:12:14]:
Because if you come out of your face in basketball, this is big indication of who you are inside. You know what I'm saying? And how you deal with these things and stuff like that. So if that lives inside of you, if these are your responses, they're more likely to show their face everywhere else. You know what I mean? Yeah. That's why basketball is like a low hanging fruit in my mind. You know what I mean?

Mike [01:12:48]:
But I thought basketball is more complicated because of the competition. It brings out the worst in you.

Eldar [01:12:53]:
Right.

Mike [01:12:56]:
That's already there.

Eldar [01:12:57]:
That's what you're suffering from. Yeah. But not if you see in things for what they are, how you're gonna bring out a group competition, for example. Right. Like the teammates we have. Right. Let's regroup together. This everybody do this.

Eldar [01:13:09]:
Like, you know, if you already know that certain individuals are talking out of their ass, incapable of doing certain things, incapable. Follow instructions.

Mike [01:13:17]:
Well, how can I know somebody?

Eldar [01:13:19]:
So the only. The only competitive edge you should only have within them, within yourself, is against yourself. If you have your own competitive edge, you just have to do the right thing on your own. What does that mean? That means that you know your abilities. And if you are competing with yourself, you have to challenge those abilities and challenge yourself to go at 100 for yourself, not for somebody else, not for your teammates, not for the team, not against the other team. It's against yourself. If you seen for that. For that what it is, you're only competing with yourself, and you're always winning.

Mike [01:13:50]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:13:51]:
No, obviously, you're playing basketball. You're still trying to win. That is the goal here. But you're no longer putting the dependence on individuals that are not taking it as seriously as you are. How can you. It's not. It's just ridiculous.

Mike [01:14:07]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:14:08]:
You know, so, yeah, it is. Competitive edge is definitely a thing to solve, but it's how you look at it, refs. Then there's. I mean, it is what it is. Then you are now playing for yourself. You know, I'm not sure if that's anything wrong with that there. If there's no collective agreement.

Mike [01:14:30]:
Cool.

Eldar [01:14:30]:
We're gonna box out.

Mike [01:14:31]:
Cool.

Eldar [01:14:31]:
Let's all box out. No problem. But if people not boxing out, then, like, here we go, you know, what are we gonna have? We could just have a divided team who's angry at one another because some people are doing it. Some people are not doing it.

Mike [01:14:47]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:14:47]:
I also don't want to be participating. You know what I mean? So I kind of look at it and. Okay, cool. This sounds like we're in development, but.

Mike [01:14:55]:
Where do you learn the ability to see things, what they are?

Eldar [01:14:58]:
Where.

Mike [01:14:59]:
Yeah. How do you learn to see things.

Eldar [01:15:00]:
For what they are here right now? I'm thinking about it. I'm thinking about it. And then I'm gonna go model it.

Mike [01:15:07]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:15:08]:
In different areas of my life, you know? Because then when it's happening to me, like, okay, cool. Like, this guy is doing the opposite of what is being told. Like, ah, he's a fucking idiot. Like, how am I gonna fucking hold myself accountable for him being an idiot? Ridiculous. I'm not gonna do that. I made sure I did the right thing. I played to my hundred. I played against myself, you know, like you said, you firing on all cylinders, stamina, everything else, jumping high and all this other stuff.

Eldar [01:15:39]:
You enjoyed yourself, but it's not gonna be contingent to an individual performing for you the way you want them to perform. That's crazy. You know what I mean? So that's why I get upset. I think of when people are not playing their game. Yeah, I'm more, so I win. If he shot his shots in my head, we just missed those shots. Now, what he's wrestling with because he's missing, that's on him. You know what I mean? But I needed him to make his shots, and I'm upset if he doesn't play his game.

Eldar [01:16:11]:
That's all I can do is to motivate him to play the game, to make him make the shots. It's on him. You know what I'm saying? Like, that's the concept.

Mike [01:16:19]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:16:20]:
You know what I'm saying? Where I'm like, okay, cool. Like, now, if we didn't make this, if he's going full layups all the time and we lost the game and stuff like that, then I'm like, yo, what the fuck? I'm all upset. Like, yo, we're not even playing our game. Never playing your game. That's supposed to be doing this, you know, but if you shot, if you played your game, you, you know, but you missed. I'm not upset at all, you know, like, I get over that really quick. You know, obviously have attachment from. To score and I want him to score and everybody else, but that's out of my control.

Eldar [01:16:48]:
And I get over that really quick versus that which I can control and try to motivate him to. To do what he's supposed to by getting rid of his fears, you know, whichever way I can or getting the Bolton faster than, you know, split second faster than the opponent is there and stuff like that. That's, that's within my control and I think I can control that. So. Yeah, you know, so based on what.

Mike [01:17:14]:
You guys said about the basketball thing, you know, and then the things come out. So you guys think I have anchor problem.

Eldar [01:17:22]:
Well, with the example that you gave us, yeah. Yeah.

Mike [01:17:25]:
And you think it's a big problem.

Eldar [01:17:27]:
Well, if this was holding you away from playing, that's a big problem within that thing.

Toliy [01:17:31]:
Right.

Mike [01:17:31]:
But.

Eldar [01:17:32]:
Well, overall, though, well, I don't know that you have to evaluate that too.

Mike [01:17:37]:
Well, I'm evaluating. I'm asking you guys.

Eldar [01:17:39]:
Well, you guys, how you evaluate.

Mike [01:17:41]:
Yeah, totally. Mmm. Yeah. If you person's worst qualities. Right.

Eldar [01:17:49]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:17:50]:
Come out in this kind of thing, if that's what you're know them.

Eldar [01:17:54]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So. Well, I was, like, the anger thing. Yeah, I've seen it. But I didn't even see, like, you getting angry on the basketball court. I've seen his anger on the basketball court. That's very clear.

Mike [01:18:06]:
Yeah, I didn't.

Eldar [01:18:07]:
I saw your anger with Scottie. I knew you have anger with Scotty.

Mike [01:18:12]:
Scotty who? Oh, that crazy guy.

Eldar [01:18:14]:
No, you, employee, bro.

Mike [01:18:16]:
Yeah. Yeah.

Eldar [01:18:16]:
You know, I'm saying I've seen that anger.

Mike [01:18:18]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:18:18]:
You know what I'm saying? I've seen that form. I've seen it with Gary.

Mike [01:18:22]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:18:23]:
With those phone calls. I remember, you know, how you get frustrated and stuff like that. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, I've seen it. Yeah.

Mike [01:18:32]:
But I usually don't get angry with, like, our teammates.

Eldar [01:18:34]:
Usually, yeah.

Mike [01:18:35]:
Because I got a lot of abuse from some people, you know, for not doing something on the court, so I never wanted to, like, subject some. I try not to at least subject my teammates to that. You know, sometimes, obviously, you know, especially become more competitive. It did come out. Yeah, yeah, definitely. With other people. Yeah, like that. Like you said scotty.

Eldar [01:18:55]:
Mm hmm.

Mike [01:18:56]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:18:58]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:18:58]:
And what do you. And totally.

Toliy [01:19:02]:
Um. Yeah, I mean, I definitely. I mean. I mean, I. I definitely see you angry on the basketball court. Yeah, I see anger, and then I see also frustration. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Frustration.

Toliy [01:19:16]:
And then, like, I definitely see a huge issue with competitiveness, and then I think that that kind of competitiveness branches out in those other different things.

Mike [01:19:29]:
Anger? Like towards what? Towards who?

Toliy [01:19:32]:
Well, I mean. I mean, in different situations, I definitely feel that, like, you're angry when someone is, like, not what you view as not being reasonable on certain, like, you know, things that they say or do.

Eldar [01:19:51]:
Oh, yeah, I've seen you get angry a lot of at times. Angry when you get hurt.

Toliy [01:19:56]:
Yeah, you get. Yeah, that'll be like, yeah. Getting very angry. You know, you slam the wall.

Eldar [01:20:01]:
Yeah. You slam the wall.

Toliy [01:20:02]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:20:04]:
You're like, fuck, yeah.

Mike [01:20:07]:
That was more for, like, a. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Toliy [01:20:12]:
That. And just, like. Yeah, just frustrations with people that you view are not being reasonable or that you feel are, like, probably taking, like, what they're doing or saying more, like, personally. I'll probably view that as, like, a big. A big one. Like, you know, someone's making certain calls or saying certain things. Right. And, like, you view them as, like, being kind of ratty, but then you kind of take it personally in those moments, you know?

Mike [01:20:41]:
Yeah. So then, overall, you guys are saying.

Eldar [01:20:45]:
That I'm pretty angry guy, not saying that you. You identified it. We're building on it. Yeah, no, you know, I'm saying we could build on something else if you want.

Mike [01:20:54]:
No, I'd like to. Everything.

Eldar [01:20:56]:
If you guys.

Mike [01:20:56]:
You got more. More to hear.

Eldar [01:20:58]:
Yeah, yeah. No, those are. Those are my observations, you know, saying. But also, I think maybe I overlook a lot of it. Like, I'm not paying really attention to some of the things that you experiencing, like, on the bench or, you know what I'm saying? Within the. Within the game of basketball, because I'm not really looking for that. A lot of times it's been happening to me where there's something going on, and you guys talk within each other like, yo, did you see that? Did you see how I'm. Like, I'm not seeing any of that.

Eldar [01:21:27]:
I generally don't, because I'm somewhere else in my mind in that moment. I'm paying attention to very specific things, and I'm zoned in. But within you, you guys seen, like, people bickering, people fighting, people saying shit like, I don't see that. You know? So that's why I probably overlooked that as well for you. Where I did. I'm not gonna say, like, you'll, Mike, you have an anger palm. That's why you should stop playing basketball. Mmhmm.

Eldar [01:21:50]:
You know what I'm saying? But I did see, like I said, in the business and stuff like that. In certain areas, I did see anger, but also, that was before. You know what I mean? I think you were doing a lot better, for example, with your dad that you used to be angry about. You know, there's certain flare ups, but, yeah. Nothing crazy where I'm like, you should quit speaking to your dad like, you're quitting basketball for your own reasons. I didn't advise you to quit basketball because of your anger. But if you're saying, hey, it's hurting you so much, it's your choice, obviously, you know?

Mike [01:22:22]:
Yeah, I.

Eldar [01:22:23]:
But if that's what it is, you should definitely work on that.

Mike [01:22:26]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:22:27]:
Especially if you feel like it is bleeding over into your real life, into life. You know what I mean? But I don't see how I wouldn't.

Mike [01:22:32]:
Yeah. Oh, yeah. Whatever it is, it's just the extension of.

Eldar [01:22:36]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:22:37]:
Everything else.

Eldar [01:22:37]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:22:38]:
Shows up in that.

Eldar [01:22:38]:
Yeah. Yeah.

Mike [01:22:40]:
Okay. And what do you guys think? The core that is, like, where you think come from, if it's not just in basketball, then it has to be somewhere in it, right. That sparks that anger.

Eldar [01:22:52]:
Well, I thought you. In business, you were control freak.

Mike [01:22:56]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:22:57]:
In business specifically.

Mike [01:22:58]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:22:59]:
Then maybe I would have to say then. Then you have to probably apply that also in life. There are certain things that you want to control that are not under your control. That's what usually anger comes out. Wanting to control something that's uncontrollable, or you don't get what you want, how long, and then you get really disappointed. You slam the floor or whatever. The wall. You know, you're really upset.

Eldar [01:23:18]:
So I would say that. You know what I'm saying? You know, when you detach yourself from that whole business thing, you definitely. You stop displaying that anger. You. You saw for what it is, you accepted certain things, and you wouldn't get upset anymore. So your anger diminished.

Mike [01:23:36]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:23:37]:
You know, what other examples?

Mike [01:23:42]:
Is it possible to eradicate it or just diminish it?

Eldar [01:23:46]:
No, I think you can eradicate it. Why wouldn't you like anything else you can eradicate. You can make it more. You can just, like I believe you can get rid of his anxiety. Completely eradicated. You know what I mean? But steps need to be taken. Obviously. You need to discuss it, talk about it, and see where it's coming from, see the root, and then take the right actions in order to be a different person because you want to be.

Mike [01:24:07]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:24:08]:
You know, I'm trying to think about any other examples in life, totally outside of basketball.

Mike [01:24:13]:
Go ahead. Let it rip. I know you got a.

Toliy [01:24:16]:
No, no. I mean, all of a sudden, this.

Mike [01:24:19]:
Quiet mouse, you know, he's thinking, bro.

Eldar [01:24:22]:
I'm thinking, too. I'm trying digging. I'll dig with you.

Toliy [01:24:26]:
Yeah, no, I mean. I mean, I definitely know. Notice a lot of times, you know, when you get frustrated and, you know, or angry and stuff like that, like, I mean, I mean, I'm not sure what. What else to.

Mike [01:24:37]:
Was it always or. No.

Eldar [01:24:42]:
Or.

Mike [01:24:42]:
Since I became more competitive, probably since.

Toliy [01:24:44]:
You became more competitive? Yeah.

Eldar [01:24:51]:
Basketball wise, yeah, 100%.

Mike [01:24:53]:
But again, basketball is just an expression of an underlying issue.

Eldar [01:24:58]:
It comes out there. It just comes out.

Mike [01:25:01]:
What other underlying issues should I. You know, maybe I wasn't aware of. I definitely didn't think I had, like, huge anger problem, you know, but as I became more competitive. 100%.

Eldar [01:25:12]:
Yeah, it highlighted it.

Mike [01:25:15]:
It made. I don't. Did a highlight or it made it worse. Now that I'm more competitive, now that I can do more, I'm expecting other people to do more, maybe, or being upset when they're not doing more. Right. Like, did it. Did it highlight it existing problem or did it make it worse?

Eldar [01:25:32]:
I think you had the. That anger, which competitiveness outside of basketball, used to even say in business, bro.

Mike [01:25:39]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:25:40]:
You made very straightforward comments about your competitors.

Mike [01:25:44]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:25:44]:
You know what I mean?

Mike [01:25:45]:
Yeah, I remember that. Yeah.

Eldar [01:25:47]:
You know what I'm saying? That's. That's competitive.

Mike [01:25:50]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:25:50]:
What you're gonna do, how you're gonna beat them out of business and stuff like that. And there was definitely an umph behind it.

Mike [01:25:55]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:25:56]:
You know, like, so you have that.

Mike [01:26:00]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:26:00]:
You know, so. Yeah. And if it's competitiveness, that's what brings out that thing, then that's your Achilles heeling.

Mike [01:26:07]:
Can you get angry when you're competing with yourself?

Eldar [01:26:11]:
You can get angry at yourself, but it's a different form of expression. It's a lot more humbling and a lot more internal where you can see within and you can try to change that, and it's usually a lot more short lived because you want to do something about it.

Mike [01:26:25]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:26:26]:
I mean, that's ultimate goal for every individual.

Mike [01:26:28]:
Yeah. Everything comes back to the south.

Eldar [01:26:30]:
To the south. Yeah. If you could see within. Within you and blame yourself, then you'd be like, okay, cool. This is fucked up, and I want to change.

Toliy [01:26:36]:
Yeah. I think that, like, if you're talking about in basketball, like, I almost view the, like, healthy competition, like, in basketball and stuff.

Mike [01:26:46]:
Right.

Toliy [01:26:47]:
For example, like, I mean, my. My, like, idea of it is, like, I mean, you put your best abilities on the line, and then somebody else puts their. Whatever their abilities are on the line. Right. And then, look, the. The aftermath of that, it, like, is what it is.

Eldar [01:27:06]:
Mm hmm.

Toliy [01:27:07]:
Like, like, if they're there beating you or making their shots that day and you're giving, like, your best effort.

Eldar [01:27:15]:
Right.

Toliy [01:27:16]:
And then they're doing the same like that. That is like a. I don't know, an ideal to me, like, healthy, competitive world. Just like, two teams playing each other against each other, for example, doing the best that they all individually can. Right.

Eldar [01:27:31]:
But you. Best case scenario, making an example.

Toliy [01:27:34]:
Yeah, yeah.

Eldar [01:27:35]:
Rarely does that happen like that.

Toliy [01:27:36]:
Yeah. But then, like, there's gonna be an.

Eldar [01:27:37]:
Asshole that's gonna shove you in certain type of way or I bother you. Yes. Who's not playing basketball.

Toliy [01:27:42]:
No, no. 100%. Yeah. And that's where you have the opportunity to have unhealthy competitiveness. But I do think that, like, if. Yeah, if you have better control over, like, your mind and, like, yourself and, like, have just better abilities, then you can just continue to give your all and stuff like that and not be affected by what others are doing and still be competitive.

Eldar [01:28:10]:
Yeah.

Toliy [01:28:11]:
And I also think that, like, you'll probably find statistically you're gonna have that team of shovers and stuff like that that might like, I don't know, win one day or like, do something one day.

Eldar [01:28:22]:
Right?

Toliy [01:28:22]:
Yeah, but I think over a long period of time, I don't think those people were able to be long. Like. Or like. Or like.

Eldar [01:28:29]:
Yeah.

Toliy [01:28:30]:
Like, get their desired outcomes.

Eldar [01:28:32]:
That's right.

Toliy [01:28:32]:
Consistently. Yeah, but I think that you will. Yeah, I think actual ability will beat out the refs everyday.

Eldar [01:28:41]:
Yeah, I agree with that.

Toliy [01:28:42]:
Like, you can put much better players against us, but the refs potentially on our side. Like, they're actually on our side and I think those players still beat us.

Eldar [01:28:51]:
Yeah.

Toliy [01:28:51]:
Right, like, yeah, because, like, there's only so much of an edge that you can get right before it's like, you know, I don't know if there's a league where there's clearly, like, someone's just dribbling the ball and they're like, oh, like, foul. There's no, there's nothing even happening. Like, I think that those refs will eventually get, you know, probably fired or looked at.

Eldar [01:29:12]:
Right.

Toliy [01:29:13]:
For being like, completely ridiculous. But if there's a ref who likes, you know, whatever, they're going to give them more calls or whatever, like, I don't think that players going to get the ball enough or make an impact enough or you won't be able to respond enough where, like, you'll be able to do that. So, yeah, I mean, I definitely get frustrated with the ref at times, but I also know that, like, if I am able to better see things for what they are, the reality is that, like, I'm probably gonna get more angrier if I'm gonna be also in worser shape than being able to get worse. Yeah, because, like, yeah, like, the reality is if, like, if I get into good shape, the calls don't matter and I play how I play. Like, like, they, those reps, like, for it to be competitive, they need to give them the calls.

Eldar [01:30:00]:
Mm hmm.

Toliy [01:30:01]:
You know, otherwise, like, we're just gonna ram it down their throats. Exactly, you know?

Eldar [01:30:05]:
Exactly.

Toliy [01:30:06]:
So, yeah, it just shows me, like, the more frustrations I have with the refs, it shows me that I'm not able to have enough ability to do something about it.

Mike [01:30:15]:
Yeah.

Toliy [01:30:16]:
You know, but, like, I'm not, I'm.

Eldar [01:30:18]:
Not being a very healthy way of looking at it. He's looking at within, like, look, look, I'm just not in shape right now and I'm not doing what I'm supposed to, you know, and on top of it, I'm relying on the wraps.

Mike [01:30:27]:
Yeah.

Toliy [01:30:27]:
Yeah. I want to be able to guard a good player consistently.

Eldar [01:30:30]:
Yeah.

Toliy [01:30:30]:
And realistically, I want to be able to run and bury threes.

Eldar [01:30:34]:
Yeah.

Toliy [01:30:34]:
And if I know I do that, then I can make my impact. Like, I know I'm probably not going to be like Eldar, you know, or anything like that, but I can play a good role. Like, in that way.

Eldar [01:30:46]:
You underestimate if everybody zoomed in the way that is and actually happens, how dangerous that really is when it's synchronized.

Mike [01:30:53]:
Yeah, of course.

Eldar [01:30:54]:
Dangerous.

Mike [01:30:55]:
No, 100%.

Eldar [01:30:56]:
You know what I mean?

Mike [01:30:57]:
That's 100%.

Eldar [01:30:58]:
But that's hard to come by and, you know.

Mike [01:31:00]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:31:00]:
Easy. Because not everybody on the same.

Mike [01:31:02]:
But if you know that you can tap into this, like.

Eldar [01:31:04]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:31:04]:
Ability.

Eldar [01:31:05]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:31:05]:
Right.

Eldar [01:31:06]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:31:06]:
In certain areas of your life, would not try to extend it into all areas.

Eldar [01:31:10]:
Well, yeah, but.

Mike [01:31:13]:
And if you can't in the current, like, my thing is, like, I'm in the current state that I'm in, I cannot top into what I know that I'm capable of doing. Right.

Eldar [01:31:21]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:31:22]:
So I don't. My decision also is because that's why I wanted to stay away, because I know that I can do much better in this and not be this person.

Toliy [01:31:31]:
But is that, like, talking about, like, potential that you have potential to do this?

Mike [01:31:35]:
I mean, yes, potential. Yeah.

Toliy [01:31:41]:
Yeah. But I just understand how that holds so much water, though. Like, it's just potential. You just have potential to do better.

Mike [01:31:51]:
Well, if it was like, I haven't improved in other areas of my life where I felt actual change, then I would say, I'm just potentially guessing here what's gonna happen. But if I did certain things, I took certain steps, I behave certain way, I made certain changes and then experienced.

Toliy [01:32:09]:
Yeah, but are you taking the same approach then to these things? Like. Like, in the things you're talking about, did you completely stop doing them or ban them, for example?

Mike [01:32:19]:
I didn't know. No, I didn't.

Toliy [01:32:20]:
So how are you expecting, for example, in that same way as the same outcome with those things?

Mike [01:32:26]:
So you're saying if I do exactly what I did before, in the other things, that I would not reach what I. What, the same thing that I reached.

Toliy [01:32:33]:
Notes if you don't.

Mike [01:32:35]:
What if I take the same steps and same actions as I did in that stuff where I have succeeded? Succeeded?

Toliy [01:32:42]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:32:42]:
And I applied to basketball. You're saying that I would not succeed.

Toliy [01:32:46]:
I'm saying that you. You probably would do better than the. Then the methods of, like, just banning it for example and doing all that. Yeah.

Eldar [01:32:53]:
I think that you can. You can ban it, but you have to then actively seek to return to it.

Toliy [01:32:59]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:33:01]:
By doing what it is that you need to be doing to work on those things.

Mike [01:33:05]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:33:06]:
If you're not, then. Then what are you doing? Yeah, you're just stalling, right. It's like almost like a cop out. Like, okay, cool. Look, I'm not ready. Yeah, but then you need to get ready if that's what you want to do. Because if you said to yourself, okay, I like basketball, I want to do this. I want to do it in this form, and I can see potential there.

Eldar [01:33:25]:
So you should follow the potential.

Mike [01:33:26]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:33:27]:
Why wouldn't you follow the potential? Right. If the potential is good.

Mike [01:33:32]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:33:34]:
So you should be. It should be an active pursuit of actualizing those potentials that you have in your mind that you just told him, like, hey, I know. I felt it. I know how it feels.

Mike [01:33:44]:
It's good.

Eldar [01:33:44]:
I want to return to that.

Mike [01:33:46]:
Is there.

Eldar [01:33:46]:
So then you're in the pursuit of doing that.

Mike [01:33:48]:
But is there, like, I. If I think I have other outstanding things that I think are. Might be more important, you know, like.

Eldar [01:33:57]:
What.

Mike [01:33:59]:
I think figuring out. Yeah, other things. I don't have to think about it, but I could tell you, I guess, then solving this, like, I guess.

Eldar [01:34:14]:
They'Re not connected.

Mike [01:34:17]:
They are. They are connected. Yeah. What.

Toliy [01:34:20]:
What are those things, though?

Mike [01:34:21]:
Yeah. I have to think about it, but I think there's a higher purpose, and I'm not sure of basketball. Being. Playing basketball is the highest purpose. And I'm trying to find out my purpose in my life, how I fit into the puzzle, you know? Because before, where I was, I was in the shitter. Right. Like a lot of stuff. I was doing a lot of stupid shit, bad shit.

Mike [01:34:40]:
Right. And then now I think I'm trying to come to a place where I'm doing things the right way. You know, trying to be honest, be, you know, be a. Do things the right way. Let's just call it like a general thing.

Eldar [01:34:53]:
Yeah, yeah.

Mike [01:34:54]:
I, you know, but I think there's another stage. You know, it's like if you were in the shitter, now you're just at okay level. I think there's a high level. We actually good.

Eldar [01:35:04]:
Mm hmm.

Mike [01:35:05]:
You know, and I think I'm still trying to bring a lot of other things up to the okay level.

Eldar [01:35:08]:
Mmm.

Mike [01:35:09]:
You know, like, I'd like to have a better relationship with. With money myself, for example. Right. With managing money. Right. Or, you know, probably I don't think I, like, yeah, I could do have a better relationship with my parents, but I don't think I have a bad one. And I also don't think that we're meant to have a great relationship where, like, we're, like, so, so close that we share everything. Like, my idea of a good relationship is what we have now.

Mike [01:35:34]:
We're respectful to each other, you know? But I guess there's other things that. Holding you back, maybe they hold me back, but, yeah, I just.

Eldar [01:35:46]:
They're bigger. More priorities. Yeah. It's priority fee. Yeah.

Mike [01:35:49]:
More priority for me. Yeah. You know?

Eldar [01:35:51]:
Okay.

Mike [01:35:52]:
You know, and I think.

Eldar [01:35:53]:
Have you actually identified those things then, like, because.

Mike [01:35:56]:
Well, yeah, I mean, falling in love is a big priority for me.

Eldar [01:35:59]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:35:59]:
But I understand that before I can fall in love with somebody else, I need to fall in love myself fully.

Eldar [01:36:04]:
Mm hmm.

Mike [01:36:05]:
You know?

Eldar [01:36:05]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:36:06]:
So putting basketball, getting back to basketball, I don't know if that's a priority, part of self love. It is part.

Eldar [01:36:13]:
Not in the form that you're described.

Mike [01:36:15]:
Not in the form that describes.

Eldar [01:36:16]:
Absolutely not. You should not. That should not be a priority.

Toliy [01:36:19]:
Sure.

Eldar [01:36:19]:
You know, your priority should be getting back to basketball, but in a different form.

Mike [01:36:22]:
Right, but, but I also think part of falling love with myself and then potentially falling, that's also as well.

Eldar [01:36:31]:
Yeah, but do you think that the fall in love with yourself is separate from you being in the right form of basketball?

Mike [01:36:37]:
No, it's the same.

Eldar [01:36:38]:
It's the same.

Mike [01:36:39]:
It's the same.

Eldar [01:36:39]:
Okay, good.

Mike [01:36:40]:
Yeah, it is. It is the same. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Toliy [01:36:43]:
I think that you're, you're probably, like, the way that you're thinking about it, you're probably weighing, you have bigger fish to fry, but, like, this might be.

Eldar [01:36:51]:
The lowest hanging fruit.

Toliy [01:36:53]:
Yeah, actually.

Eldar [01:36:54]:
Yeah, that, like, you extensively talk about basketball, but everything else, all the examples, like, you kind of, like, wish you washy. You don't really have a plan, you know? I'm saying.

Mike [01:37:02]:
I don't. Yeah. I'm trying to figure it out. That's what I'm explaining to you guys.

Eldar [01:37:06]:
Yeah, I think that's why I'm saying basketball is your low hanging fruit, bro. You're the guy on peaceful warrior, bro, with basketball. When he said, sock, we're better than this, it was really mean. Better than this. You know what I mean? Like, no, get back on those damn rings, bro.

Mike [01:37:21]:
Maybe. I don't know.

Eldar [01:37:22]:
He's like, I'm done. I'm retired. No, you're not. This is what you like to do. This is your passion, you got to get back into it in a different form.

Mike [01:37:30]:
But how do. But I'm. But I'm trying. I'm saying to you guys, maybe you guys not believe in what I'm saying.

Eldar [01:37:35]:
That I'm trying, not understanding what you're saying more than trying to get into.

Mike [01:37:38]:
Different form by getting more knowledge about what that is. Like, how do you, how does something become your value? You don't just say, you know what? Today I'm going to value honesty. And then you already have it, right? You have to understand, what does it mean to be honest. You have to get knowledge about it. And I think that's what I'm. The stage I'm in. But if you guys don't think that's the right stage or you think I'm wrong about the process, I want to hear, because I don't want to be under the wrong impressions. You know, I'm in the getting knowledge phase now, right? Like, understanding.

Mike [01:38:08]:
What does it mean to say those things that, like.

Eldar [01:38:13]:
Getting knowledge about what?

Mike [01:38:15]:
About what it means to, like, be honest. Right.

Eldar [01:38:19]:
So tell me. Talk about basketball, though.

Mike [01:38:21]:
Basketball?

Eldar [01:38:22]:
Yeah. Give me examples about basketball. The honest part we did already, right? Yeah, we worked on that. Give me the basketball thing.

Mike [01:38:29]:
Mm hmm. Basketball?

Eldar [01:38:31]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:38:31]:
What do you mean, basketball?

Eldar [01:38:32]:
Which part? What phase you in? And basketball. What the basketball examples. You were angry, for example. Which. Which phase are you in? Are you trying to understand anger?

Mike [01:38:42]:
I'm not. Well, like I said, I'm not actively thinking about the basketball stuff.

Eldar [01:38:46]:
Right.

Mike [01:38:46]:
Right now, yeah. I'm more thinking about other stuff. Falling in love with myself. Right. And what does that mean to me?

Eldar [01:38:52]:
Okay.

Mike [01:38:53]:
To live, like, a virtuous life.

Eldar [01:38:54]:
Right.

Mike [01:38:55]:
We talk about all the time. What does that mean? And how do I understand that? Right.

Eldar [01:38:59]:
Uh huh.

Mike [01:39:00]:
And then, like, I'm trying to understand what that means, what that looks like. So then I can say, okay, so.

Eldar [01:39:05]:
What is it that you're doing, though?

Mike [01:39:06]:
I'm reading about it. I'm listening to books about it. I'm trying to think about it. I mean, those things.

Eldar [01:39:12]:
Okay, so what did you learn?

Mike [01:39:14]:
I mean, I'm learning. I can't say I've learned anything, but I'm trying to understand what it means and then how I can understand. Understand it a level that I can then engage in it so I can do that action, what is required.

Eldar [01:39:29]:
Hmm. Okay. I'm having a hard time. You, like, I'm understanding, like, what's he doing?

Toliy [01:39:39]:
Yeah. No, yeah. I mean, yeah.

Eldar [01:39:41]:
I mean, to me, it's very clear. You identified anger.

Mike [01:39:46]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:39:46]:
You identified it like, like you were dishonest with your dad, with business stuff. Identified it, worked on it. This is what it is. You like yourself there.

Mike [01:39:53]:
Yeah, that's it.

Eldar [01:39:55]:
Same thing here. Anger. You identified a problem. Where is it coming from?

Mike [01:40:00]:
Dig.

Eldar [01:40:01]:
Dig it. So you can't dig anymore that you found it. Why am I angry as a person? Work on it. Work on it. Oh, you like yourself now without anger. Great. You accomplished it. Like, I don't understand the process that you're talking about.

Mike [01:40:13]:
Yeah, I'm. I'm digging it. I'm trying to understand it. Why?

Eldar [01:40:17]:
What are you trying to understand again?

Toliy [01:40:20]:
I think you. You might like in this kind of situation. To me, it sounds more like you're. You're running away from it than trying to understand it, but maybe, like, telling yourself that you're trying to understand.

Eldar [01:40:33]:
What is he trying to understand in.

Toliy [01:40:36]:
Yeah, I'm not sure.

Mike [01:40:38]:
And then other parts. Why do I like a particular girl? Why do I value those kind of qualities?

Eldar [01:40:44]:
Right.

Mike [01:40:44]:
That's a huge one. Right. Why do I not love myself? Because of. I think they're higher than me. Right. Those things. I'm trying to understand those things.

Eldar [01:40:57]:
Okay.

Mike [01:40:57]:
You know?

Eldar [01:40:59]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:41:00]:
And then I'm trying to understand. Figure out how by understanding those things, I can put them into practice and live those things.

Eldar [01:41:06]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:41:06]:
You know?

Eldar [01:41:08]:
Okay. Yeah. Because, like, for example, what you're was hearing, trying to hear before, it's almost like you're trying to get into the. Trying to find out my purpose. That's a hard one to do, I think. You know what I mean.

Mike [01:41:21]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:41:21]:
It's a hard one to do.

Mike [01:41:22]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:41:23]:
It is easier to identify qualities that we have problems that we're suffering from and trying to solve them. And as we get the clarity from removing those problems.

Mike [01:41:33]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:41:33]:
We start identifying it, becomes a little bit more understanding of what the purpose might be. That's how I see it. You're somehow, like, trying to do the purpose thing as a. The main thing. That's what I'm hearing from you. Mm hmm. You know?

Mike [01:41:47]:
Yeah, I think so. Yeah.

Eldar [01:41:48]:
And that's why I'm confused. Like, how. How does that look? You know what I mean?

Mike [01:41:52]:
It just, it probably looks like the same thing you described, but just from a different.

Eldar [01:41:57]:
I don't know, like, to me, I've identified the purpose. The purpose right now is for you to. If you don't like being angry, it's not to be angry.

Mike [01:42:04]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:42:05]:
Define it. Understand it. Dig for it, solve it.

Mike [01:42:08]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:42:08]:
That's my understanding of how that's a purposeful retreat into yourself.

Mike [01:42:14]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:42:15]:
You know what I mean? It's a very specific niche. Like this is it, you know, I have identified. That's clear to me. To you, it's like you're talking about something bigger.

Mike [01:42:24]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:42:25]:
Versus something smaller.

Mike [01:42:26]:
Mm hmm.

Eldar [01:42:28]:
You know, I'm saying.

Mike [01:42:28]:
No, I know what you're saying. Yeah. Purpose is a huge thing, but all the things that you mentioned there, I think they're all within them.

Eldar [01:42:33]:
Yeah. So I'm not sure how you can solve the purpose with still having negative qualities. My challenge, I don't know.

Mike [01:42:41]:
I think purpose is a goal. Right. Maybe that's the misconception here, but wrong thinking. But the purpose is the goal. And then once you understand your goal, then you will also.

Eldar [01:42:52]:
How about this? How does this sound to you? How about the purpose for you to be happy?

Mike [01:42:57]:
Yeah. It's a good purpose.

Eldar [01:42:59]:
It's a good purpose.

Mike [01:43:00]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:43:00]:
Have you thought about it?

Mike [01:43:02]:
Yeah, I think. I think about it, yeah. And I think about the things that make me unhappy and I try to remove them because they don't.

Eldar [01:43:09]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:43:09]:
Contribute to my purpose.

Eldar [01:43:11]:
Because if you say my purpose is to be happy. Right.

Mike [01:43:14]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:43:15]:
You have to address anger.

Mike [01:43:16]:
Of course. Yeah.

Eldar [01:43:17]:
You have to address frustration.

Mike [01:43:19]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:43:19]:
Jealousy.

Mike [01:43:20]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:43:21]:
Right. Materialism.

Mike [01:43:22]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:43:24]:
What other fucking things? Attachments.

Mike [01:43:27]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:43:27]:
Anxiety. You have to address those things. Of course.

Mike [01:43:31]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:43:32]:
To get to the purpose.

Mike [01:43:33]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:43:34]:
There's no way around that.

Mike [01:43:37]:
Yeah, I agree.

Eldar [01:43:41]:
Yeah. I think that's, like, outside of, you know, how people say all my purpose is to be, I don't know, engineers.

Mike [01:43:48]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:43:49]:
Being a. Having a purpose of being a good person, it's a qualification for everybody. Like, everybody goes on that umbrella in my mind.

Mike [01:43:57]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:43:58]:
Be a better person. Be happy.

Mike [01:43:59]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:44:00]:
Like, what challenges do we have there? None.

Mike [01:44:03]:
Yeah. Yeah. I think it is a good purpose for sure.

Eldar [01:44:07]:
You know what I'm saying?

Mike [01:44:08]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:44:09]:
And then what? You fit in your good person and personality traits, what it fits in. Into the world that. Those. But, yeah. Like, it's a little mumbo jumbo for me, the way you were describing it, so I didn't understand it, really. Maybe because you need to put a much thought into it, you know?

Mike [01:44:28]:
Yeah. Well, because I don't have the answers, I don't think.

Eldar [01:44:30]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:44:31]:
I'm still trying to understand it.

Eldar [01:44:33]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:44:33]:
Myself, if I understood it, I would be more confident. I would know exactly what to do, and I will be doing it.

Eldar [01:44:39]:
Yeah. Yeah.

Toliy [01:44:39]:
Yeah. I feel like the way that I'm hearing you talk about is that, like, it sounds like you're trying to shoot very high to go back down.

Eldar [01:44:47]:
Okay. Analogy. Yeah.

Toliy [01:44:50]:
Like, that's how I feel about it.

Eldar [01:44:52]:
Okay, so give someone, like, give a little expansion on that. Yeah.

Toliy [01:44:56]:
Like, maybe Mike's seeking to be this, like, you know, purposeful, for example, like, Isl warrior type. Like, you know, like, kind of, like, you know, have. Have everything, like, you know, kind of flowing well. And then, for example, return to doing something like basketball or something else.

Eldar [01:45:14]:
Oh, okay.

Toliy [01:45:15]:
Right. So, like, kind of go to the top and then come down to play it versus kind of like a, like something build up.

Mike [01:45:24]:
Yeah. Yeah. It's very possible.

Toliy [01:45:25]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:45:26]:
What you're saying. Yeah.

Eldar [01:45:27]:
Okay. Yeah.

Toliy [01:45:28]:
Like, he wants to become a perfect, like. Yeah. From everything you said, he wants to become a very close or perfect individual before he starts participating in basketball.

Eldar [01:45:39]:
Yeah. Yeah. That's hard.

Toliy [01:45:42]:
That's what I was saying. Is that, like, the things he was saying to me? I mean, the way that I understand.

Eldar [01:45:47]:
You would have to. Don't say, you would have to say, what's the. What's the playbook on learning here? How would you learn that way? What he's talking about. Right. Go up and then come back. Or how you. What's the playbook on learning through basketball? That's a lot easier to me. Again, that's why I skipped low hanging fruit.

Eldar [01:46:07]:
Because we can replicate your anger like this.

Mike [01:46:10]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:46:10]:
You know what I'm saying? We can work on your stamina like this.

Mike [01:46:13]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:46:13]:
Losing weight like this. These are fucking easy things.

Mike [01:46:17]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:46:18]:
You know what I mean? If wanted, of course. Yeah.

Mike [01:46:22]:
Yeah. Definitely. I think, you know, two different approaches. Right?

Eldar [01:46:26]:
Yeah.

Toliy [01:46:27]:
Yeah. I guess, like, the question is probably, like, to me at least, is, like, based on your experience so far, like, what led you to believe that that would be the right approach?

Mike [01:46:37]:
What? Let me simply. That the approach. That is the right approach that you.

Eldar [01:46:41]:
Didn'T want to learn on a job.

Mike [01:46:42]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:46:45]:
That approach.

Mike [01:46:45]:
Yeah. Yeah.

Eldar [01:46:46]:
Like we're saying, hey, why don't you learn on the job?

Mike [01:46:50]:
Yeah. Yeah. No, I know what you guys think, and I did think about it before.

Eldar [01:46:54]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:46:56]:
Because I think it probably came back to the thing about consistency and character. And then when you haven't, like, when you wake up in the morning and right away you go into basketball, for example, and you have.

Eldar [01:47:08]:
Huh.

Mike [01:47:09]:
You wake up and you get ready, go to the gym, you play basketball.

Eldar [01:47:12]:
Okay.

Mike [01:47:12]:
Oh, like on a Saturday morning.

Eldar [01:47:13]:
Okay.

Mike [01:47:14]:
And right away you have a fucking fit.

Eldar [01:47:16]:
Ah.

Mike [01:47:17]:
That kills your whole day.

Eldar [01:47:19]:
Okay.

Mike [01:47:19]:
You know I'm saying. And that's just one example what if you're driving, you know, and you have a fucking somebody, you know, cuts you off, and then you have a fit?

Eldar [01:47:26]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:47:27]:
The thing is, the more things that you engage in, the more distractions there are. Right. Why remove the cell phone? Right. For example, for Toli.

Eldar [01:47:35]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:47:36]:
So that you can focus on the core important stuff.

Eldar [01:47:38]:
Mm hmm.

Mike [01:47:39]:
But if you're constantly distracting yourself with whether it's basketball with cell phone, whether it's going shopping, I don't know, going out to eat, going whatever, traveling.

Eldar [01:47:47]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:47:48]:
You're distracting yourself, and you are constantly in a state of like, well, this is Mike, the philosopher. And then there's Mike, who's in the basketball court. And once those two kind of, like, they meet, they get entangled. Now, if you have a fit on the basketball court, you might have a couple hours where you're gonna be.

Eldar [01:48:07]:
Oh, wow. So was that bad?

Mike [01:48:10]:
I mean, it wasn't like, it wasn't like, I mean, sometimes it was described.

Eldar [01:48:17]:
Bro, is like identity crisis, bro. Like a complete bipolar.

Mike [01:48:23]:
Well, yeah. If you have. If you get angry.

Eldar [01:48:25]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:48:26]:
You don't. You don't think there's any, like, residual side effects?

Eldar [01:48:28]:
Like 100%. That's 100%. But now you're telling me that you're presenting two different things and they're heavy. They have very two different agendas, and they're very heavy on.

Mike [01:48:39]:
Well, yeah. The angry person and the basketball court has one agenda.

Eldar [01:48:43]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:48:43]:
And the person who's trying to live an examine life is a different agenda because this is. How can name, how can they mix?

Eldar [01:48:48]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:48:48]:
You know, that was my worry, and that's why I thought about it this way.

Eldar [01:48:52]:
So it's almost like self preservation.

Mike [01:48:53]:
Yeah, I don't think you can, like, it's also the same example. I think you can come to Fozzie club and then walk out and put on your Rolex and go, yeah. You know, it's like stunt.

Eldar [01:49:01]:
Yeah, you.

Mike [01:49:03]:
Those two people can't live together. So either, I think you have to either be one or the other.

Eldar [01:49:09]:
Sorry, I didn't, I didn't understand how bad it was, the severity of it, that this is what led you to quit. But now you're saying, hey, this is. This was severe, bro.

Mike [01:49:20]:
No, I mean, I think. I think it's much more severe than we, than we might even understand. It wasn't like I was walking out of the gym and I was angry for 4 hours or 2 hours, 1.

Eldar [01:49:30]:
Hour slamming the wall at home. Imagine go to mike's house.

Mike [01:49:33]:
I wasn't, but I would be. Would be upset and think about it.

Eldar [01:49:39]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:49:39]:
But even if you walk. If I walk teddy sometimes in the morning and he does something and I'm, like, not present and I'm thinking about something else, and I. He gets. He gets me angry. Like, I don't want to do that.

Eldar [01:49:49]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:49:50]:
Right. So what I try to do is I try to figure out a way that I can engage in those things but be true to myself, whether it's not taking my cell phone or check, yo, how do I feel? Like, am I gonna be able to go? Or did I get bad sleep and I'm tired.

Eldar [01:50:04]:
Okay.

Mike [01:50:04]:
And I'm prone to be fucking a dickhead to him.

Eldar [01:50:06]:
Mmm. Okay.

Mike [01:50:07]:
So I'm trying. That's. That's what I'm trying to do.

Eldar [01:50:10]:
Okay.

Mike [01:50:10]:
You know, that's the way I thought about it.

Eldar [01:50:12]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:50:12]:
You know?

Eldar [01:50:13]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:50:14]:
Because, like.

Eldar [01:50:15]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:50:15]:
It's that same thing. If you come to church on Sunday and then Monday you go back to fucking, or not even Monday. Sunday night, you go back to fucking being a dick.

Eldar [01:50:22]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:50:23]:
You know, you guys don't. Don't think that that's.

Eldar [01:50:26]:
No, I think it's a big deal, especially that you describe it the way you do. And for some. For somebody, you can have a very bad day, but somebody just stepping on your shoe, for example. You know what I mean? So, yeah, I see how you could, if you were sensitive enough, or these things can have a big. They can play a big role in your life that there's a big disparity between. Hey, I energized here, and then I become this monster here. So. Yeah, I think that's a huge problem.

Mike [01:50:50]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:50:50]:
You know what I'm saying? It's a huge problem.

Toliy [01:50:53]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:50:54]:
You know, at least, like, I just. I'm trying to picture my. My thing where I was angry at myself by overplaying, but I'm angry the next day. You know what I mean? At least I slept on it.

Mike [01:51:06]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:51:06]:
So I wake up and I'm kind of, like. My memory is a little shocked. I don't know what I did to myself.

Mike [01:51:11]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:51:11]:
I clearly did something to myself to be angry at myself because I overdid it. Right?

Mike [01:51:15]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:51:16]:
That's the way I thought about it, you know?

Mike [01:51:19]:
Especially, like, knowing the potential that I can reach when I'm ahead. We sit here, we talk, we think, and then the effects that come from it, a week, a month, nine months down the line, a year later, like, if I look back at what my issue my dad was and the things that I was doing two years ago, like.

Eldar [01:51:34]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:51:35]:
Like, it's such a huge disparity. So then for me to say, you know what? Like, today I'm gonna go into the shit tub with my dad.

Eldar [01:51:42]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:51:43]:
It's the same thing. I'm gonna go into the shit tube.

Eldar [01:51:44]:
When the basketball court.

Mike [01:51:47]:
The way I thought about it is, why would I do that to myself? That's where this whole thing came about, this whole theory of. Yeah. Like, removing things from my life that I'm able to engage in properly.

Eldar [01:51:59]:
Okay, but you see, with your dad, you couldn't remove it, right?

Mike [01:52:02]:
I couldn't remove it.

Eldar [01:52:04]:
Why not?

Mike [01:52:06]:
Because I have responsibility there, and that helped me to understand it more because I.

Eldar [01:52:12]:
So the responsibility helped you to understand it more? Yeah.

Mike [01:52:17]:
I have an obligation to my family that I made a commitment. I cannot just say, you know what? Fuck you guys. Bye.

Eldar [01:52:23]:
So why didn't you go this route? Why don't you have, like, an obligation to the team or something? Responsibility to the team where you gave your word, for example, or just said, hey, like, guys, I'm gonna lose. You know, I was gonna say, what, lose 50 pounds?

Mike [01:52:37]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:52:38]:
You know what I'm saying?

Mike [01:52:39]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:52:39]:
And all this other stuff in order to get you to a place where you want to be.

Mike [01:52:42]:
Because I never made that commitment to them in the first place.

Eldar [01:52:45]:
No, but why wouldn't you use that, too, if you already used it and proved it out? This is a different route completely.

Mike [01:52:50]:
Yeah. I mean, I have to believe in that.

Eldar [01:52:53]:
Oh, yeah.

Mike [01:52:54]:
Yeah. In order to believe in something, you. I guess I have to study and examine it more, the way I think about it.

Eldar [01:53:00]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:53:01]:
You have to have a good reason for doing something, and I've had good reasons in the past for doing stuff like, you know, retire my parents, but clearly it was.

Eldar [01:53:08]:
Yeah, I. Yeah.

Mike [01:53:09]:
So if I'm gonna engage in something, I want to make sure that it is actually rooted in truth.

Eldar [01:53:13]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:53:14]:
And not only that, I actually have to believe it fully so that I can actually display the behaviors that are required.

Eldar [01:53:20]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:53:21]:
And act that way, you know?

Eldar [01:53:23]:
Yeah. So. So anything else?

Mike [01:53:26]:
Why does that sound crazy? What did I just said or what?

Eldar [01:53:29]:
No, no, not at all. No. Doesn't sound crazy.

Mike [01:53:34]:
Totally.

Toliy [01:53:36]:
No, I mean, I hear what you're saying.

Eldar [01:53:42]:
Oh, it's fucked up. Yo.

Mike [01:53:43]:
What?

Eldar [01:53:44]:
You said everything. You don't have to say anything anymore, you know. Yeah, I hear everything you say, but.

Toliy [01:53:50]:
No, no, I mean, I hear what you're saying. It could be. It just, like, for me, I find it, like, baffling. What? Baffling? No, like, like, what I'm understanding from what you're saying is that, like, you're living life a very particular way pretty much everywhere, except, you know, when you go to this basketball thing, there's such a big disparity.

Mike [01:54:16]:
No, not just basketball. No, not only basketball.

Eldar [01:54:20]:
It's a big one that we know.

Mike [01:54:21]:
A big one. Is that what you got?

Toliy [01:54:23]:
Like, yeah.

Eldar [01:54:24]:
Yeah, because we know this.

Toliy [01:54:25]:
Yeah, I was saying that, like, but.

Mike [01:54:27]:
There'S other parts, too, that I'm nothing, like, examining. Like, not examining.

Toliy [01:54:31]:
Yeah, like, yeah, I mean, I could agree. Like, if you're some way of the basketball court, for example, acting a certain way, I definitely think that that stuff bleeds into your life. And, like, probably then I don't think it bleeds.

Eldar [01:54:47]:
I think it doesn't bleed into your life. Total basketball. Yeah, it comes out in basketball. Yeah.

Toliy [01:54:52]:
Yes, yes, right?

Eldar [01:54:53]:
Yes, right? Yeah.

Toliy [01:54:54]:
So I just feel that, like, those same things in basketball are probably still happening in other parts of your life. You're just probably not aware of them.

Eldar [01:55:04]:
What if. What if we identified those things for you and said, yo, these are the things that I'm not happy with, and every time you came across, we made fun of you and made you feel embarrassed during basketball? How would that look?

Mike [01:55:17]:
Yeah, it's. I'm not posted up.

Eldar [01:55:20]:
No, I'm just saying, like, you know what I mean?

Mike [01:55:22]:
Like, how would that look?

Eldar [01:55:23]:
I think, like, if you said, hey, guys, like, this is what it is. This is what it is. You know what I mean? Like, introspectively, I think it's gonna make you look within more and more and more and more time.

Mike [01:55:35]:
I mean, I want to learn to look within more.

Eldar [01:55:39]:
Yeah, yeah.

Mike [01:55:41]:
So that I don't. Not just in basketball. That's what. Just something that we just kinda, like.

Eldar [01:55:46]:
You'Re saying this to me. You just brought awareness to me. I did not know you struggle with that. Like, in that sense.

Mike [01:55:52]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:55:53]:
Like I told you, my mind when I'm in basketball is not there. I will see the things that you're experiencing, for example, all the people. I disregard it most of the time. No time for that.

Mike [01:56:02]:
See, the thing is, my belief it's. Is that like, the impact that that basketball or that getting angry with Toli, we think it lasts a certain. A minute or two or, you know, five minutes.

Eldar [01:56:13]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:56:13]:
And we move on, but I don't believe we do.

Eldar [01:56:15]:
Well, I agree with that.

Mike [01:56:16]:
You know, I'm saying certain things are.

Eldar [01:56:18]:
So rooted that it's. It's affects your life, it affects the day.

Mike [01:56:22]:
Could it be two days. Could be a couple days, you know? And I like. Yeah, 100%. Well, I guess I'm trying to figure out a way to be with Teddy, especially in the moment.

Eldar [01:56:34]:
Mm hmm.

Mike [01:56:34]:
And understand what I'm getting engaged in and how I need to be, because this is the way I want to live.

Eldar [01:56:42]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:56:42]:
I want to treat him right. Yeah. I want to treat myself right. And I also want to treat him right. And I also want to do the same for basketball.

Eldar [01:56:48]:
Hmm.

Mike [01:56:49]:
You know, and. And other stuff, too.

Eldar [01:56:53]:
So you. You've seen yourself with Teddy where you don't like yourself, and you showed anger and stuff like that?

Mike [01:56:58]:
Oh, yeah.

Eldar [01:56:59]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:56:59]:
Yeah. I got upset with him for. You know.

Eldar [01:57:03]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:57:03]:
And I know that it's because, I guess.

Eldar [01:57:06]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:57:06]:
I have anger issues.

Eldar [01:57:07]:
Yeah. And. Yeah.

Mike [01:57:08]:
And I'm not able to control it, you know? And then I feel bad, so it's like I'm getting. It's not a great. It's not a good feeling at all.

Eldar [01:57:15]:
Yeah. It just sounds like you need maybe education and those particular things to do better.

Mike [01:57:22]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:57:23]:
You know what I'm saying?

Mike [01:57:24]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:57:24]:
And that's it. I think then, you know, you will actualize yourself again the way you want to be in those spheres in all areas.

Mike [01:57:33]:
And that's what I'm trying to do. I mean, I hope that's what I'm trying to do. Hope that's what it sounds like to you guys. I.

Eldar [01:57:38]:
Well, no, of course. I mean, you. Definitely doesn't mean that. Doesn't mean that your. Your attempt right now is an effective attempt, because we don't see the results.

Mike [01:57:44]:
Yeah. We don't.

Eldar [01:57:45]:
You know what I mean? But nonetheless, you're trying. That's already. You. You.

Mike [01:57:49]:
Why? You know, I just.

Eldar [01:57:54]:
I. Yeah.

Mike [01:57:54]:
In this process.

Eldar [01:57:55]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:57:56]:
One thing that I have observed is that. I know, I guess, certain things, how they affect my interactions with. Whether it's basketball or the. With steady. Because for a while, right. At first, I didn't quit basketball completely. I started going once on Saturday, only no Sundays. Right.

Eldar [01:58:13]:
So.

Mike [01:58:14]:
And with Teddy, I realized if I don't take my phone, I'm not distracted, and I'm more in the moment. I can let him do what he wants to do, which I think is my obligation to him, you know? Obligation. Maybe, like, he's a dog, and I. He's my child.

Eldar [01:58:28]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:58:29]:
And I have to let him do what he wants to do, which is do dog things, which is ghost nif.

Eldar [01:58:32]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:58:33]:
Sometimes change directions.

Eldar [01:58:34]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:58:34]:
You know.

Eldar [01:58:34]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:58:35]:
To a certain point, if I'm tired and my feet hurt.

Eldar [01:58:37]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:58:38]:
Not gonna say, yeah, let's keep going, you know?

Eldar [01:58:40]:
Yeah. But, yeah. Within reason.

Mike [01:58:42]:
Within reason.

Eldar [01:58:43]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:58:44]:
I think that's.

Eldar [01:58:45]:
Have you felt that you've been kind of.

Mike [01:58:47]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:58:48]:
A lacking dad.

Mike [01:58:49]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:58:50]:
That's why you have these things.

Mike [01:58:52]:
Yeah. Yeah. I think I signed up to be a dad.

Eldar [01:58:55]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:58:56]:
When I was prematurely, you know, five years or four years ago.

Eldar [01:58:59]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:59:00]:
Now I understand, you know.

Eldar [01:59:02]:
Yeah. Yeah.

Mike [01:59:04]:
But I can't take it back. The mistakes I made five years or four years ago. That's very interesting, you know?

Eldar [01:59:09]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:59:11]:
So now I want to make sure.

Eldar [01:59:12]:
The level of guilt.

Mike [01:59:14]:
There's some guilt.

Eldar [01:59:15]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:59:15]:
Some guilt, probably because.

Eldar [01:59:18]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:59:18]:
And, like, yeah, I know that I could do better. The thing is, because I have experienced what, you know, the stuff that I said, that living better and doing right. I know what that feels like. I'm not sure if a person who's experienced that, how they can go and say, I'm just gonna do mediocre in this when I know that I can do great.

Eldar [01:59:36]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:59:37]:
I know that. What a great life tastes like, whether it was for a day or a month or a few months.

Eldar [01:59:41]:
You wanna do better?

Mike [01:59:42]:
I wanna do better. You know, maybe. Yeah. Maybe the approach, like you guys saying, maybe I'm putting pressure on myself or whatever, maybe it's, you know, the jury's still out if it's gonna be successful or not.

Eldar [01:59:52]:
Yeah. Yeah.

Mike [01:59:54]:
But.

Eldar [01:59:56]:
Okay.

Mike [01:59:57]:
You know.

Eldar [01:59:57]:
Yeah, no, it's good, bro. I mean, you're thinking about it, and now it's just the way it came out. It's good that you brought examples up, but we can see what's. What's the right approach, I guess.

Mike [02:00:10]:
Yeah.

Eldar [02:00:10]:
This whole thing.

Mike [02:00:12]:
Yeah, it does. It does, yeah. And it does sound like it's a lot like what you guys said. I do think maybe you guys see it as I put a lot of pressure on myself based on what you've.

Eldar [02:00:21]:
Been describing and that, um. Not that you put a lot of pressure on it, I think that you didn't intend to put a lot of pressure on yourself. You didn't think things through, and therefore, a lot of pressure is gonna be put on you.

Mike [02:00:35]:
Yeah.

Eldar [02:00:35]:
You know what I'm saying?

Mike [02:00:37]:
Yeah.

Eldar [02:00:38]:
Like you didn't, like, you jumped prior to understanding the scope with what? With what you're. Which.

Mike [02:00:46]:
Or this thing that I'm. The way I'm doing it.

Eldar [02:00:48]:
Yeah. You know, that's what it sounds like.

Mike [02:00:50]:
Yeah, it's possible.

Eldar [02:00:51]:
And because of that, you kind of grasping for straws and trying to justify it. In ways that it's a good thing, but it's so hard to do. Like it's a. It's innately has a serious steep climb.

Mike [02:01:07]:
Yeah.

Eldar [02:01:08]:
You know what I mean? For you to conquer.

Mike [02:01:09]:
Yeah. Yeah.

Eldar [02:01:10]:
It's not undoable, but subjecting yourself to it might be a little too much. That's why basketball and the certain things that we can identify within it can be a lot lower hanging.

Mike [02:01:20]:
Yeah.

Eldar [02:01:20]:
Yeah. Nonetheless, I would like for you to, if you still convinced of your approach, to try it out, you know what I'm saying? To see where it lands you, to see how successful you are.

Mike [02:01:31]:
Yeah.

Eldar [02:01:31]:
Because it might be a different approach. It's different. Different ways of skinning this cat. You know what I'm saying? I could try to evaluate some of the points, but right now you don't. Not even giving me much. It's very vague.

Mike [02:01:43]:
Yeah.

Eldar [02:01:44]:
You know what I'm saying? It's very vague.

Mike [02:01:45]:
Well, yeah. Because I myself, I'm still just understanding it. I don't. I don't believe I have enough knowledge.

Eldar [02:01:51]:
Yeah.

Mike [02:01:52]:
Right.

Eldar [02:01:52]:
Yeah.

Mike [02:01:53]:
On the things that I would like. I like. I know I can call that a cat.

Eldar [02:01:58]:
Yeah.

Mike [02:01:58]:
But doesn't mean I know what it. What. What a cat is or what it means to be a cat or what a cat does. Behaves.

Eldar [02:02:03]:
Yeah.

Mike [02:02:03]:
Right.

Eldar [02:02:04]:
Yeah.

Mike [02:02:04]:
And I don't like, I don't feel like I have enough knowledge of what those values and those virtues are. I know they exist and I know that I have drawn good things from living in accordance with them.

Eldar [02:02:14]:
Okay. Yeah.

Mike [02:02:15]:
Now I'm trying to get deep inside of them and understand what that actually is. To live a virtuous life, what it means and how does it look good? By getting more. More information on it.

Eldar [02:02:25]:
Yeah. Yeah. For sure. For sure.

Mike [02:02:30]:
But, yeah, if things come to mind.

Eldar [02:02:32]:
I mean, I can, you know, definitely. You should definitely. I mean, especially if you're discovering something that works.

Mike [02:02:38]:
Yeah. I mean, you know what I mean?

Eldar [02:02:40]:
Because if she ain't gonna work, bro, we're gonna see non action hundred. We're gonna see that.

Mike [02:02:44]:
That part, right. Yeah.

Eldar [02:02:46]:
That means you're still getting angry at other areas.

Mike [02:02:49]:
Yeah.

Eldar [02:02:49]:
You know what I mean? And you're not coming back to basketball.

Mike [02:02:51]:
Yeah.

Eldar [02:02:52]:
So we'll see it.

Mike [02:02:53]:
Oh, yeah.

Eldar [02:02:54]:
You know.

Mike [02:02:56]:
No, for sure.

Eldar [02:02:57]:
But if you are, then, yeah. Definitely share it. See what you discover and what you get.

Mike [02:03:01]:
Yeah.

Eldar [02:03:03]:
And also the measure is happiness.

Mike [02:03:05]:
Yeah.

Eldar [02:03:05]:
You know, you're the judge and you will see whether or not I think you're happy. You know what I mean?

Mike [02:03:11]:
Yeah.

Eldar [02:03:12]:
That's it. Like, you know your pain threshold. You know, your own pain, and you should measure it by saying how you feel, asking yourself how you feel about this particular thing or the other. You know what I mean? That too. You know, it's kind of a good gauge for yourself. You know? You can't bullshit yourself.

Mike [02:03:32]:
No.

Eldar [02:03:32]:
You can bullshit us.

Mike [02:03:33]:
Yeah.

Eldar [02:03:34]:
Like I always say, you know, you can't bullshit yourself because I'll take your word for it. So you happy? I'm like, up until we come around, you know what I mean? And I see behaviors.

Mike [02:03:43]:
Yeah.

Eldar [02:03:43]:
That are not aligning with that.

Mike [02:03:46]:
Yeah.

Eldar [02:03:46]:
He's confused. I'm gonna say, you know, but then you have to wrestle with that.

Mike [02:03:51]:
Yeah.

Eldar [02:03:51]:
You know what I'm saying? He said he feels guilt about Teddy. You know what? I heard that guilt thing before. Yeah. You don't know.

Toliy [02:04:01]:
Yeah.

Eldar [02:04:02]:
Where? From me. Yeah. He said I feel guilty the way I treated him. He said the same thing about his sister.

Mike [02:04:09]:
Mm hmm. No, I know. Yeah.

Eldar [02:04:13]:
How we track down anxiety and all this shit and why he behaves the way he does.

Mike [02:04:17]:
Yeah.

Eldar [02:04:18]:
You know?

Mike [02:04:19]:
Yeah.

Eldar [02:04:20]:
Yeah.

Mike [02:04:21]:
And I think, just like him, I didn't know any better, you know, when I was doing this.

Eldar [02:04:25]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Mike [02:04:27]:
But. But I'm not, like, carrying that guilt. I don't be, like, be myself up for it.

Eldar [02:04:31]:
You just be Teddy.

Mike [02:04:33]:
Yeah.

Eldar [02:04:35]:
No, we're just joking, but activists. But I. Yeah.

Mike [02:04:40]:
I'm learning and I'm trying to be a better dad to him.

Eldar [02:04:44]:
Dog dad. Yeah.

Mike [02:04:45]:
You know, dog dad. Yeah. So I think to the right thing to do if you felt guilt.

Eldar [02:04:51]:
Right.

Mike [02:04:51]:
Is then to change that quality by yourself. If you were neglecting him and you feel guilty, then you should not neglect him, and you won't feel guilty. And that's the.

Eldar [02:05:00]:
Yeah. If you were applying not loving qualities towards him where you were neglecting him. Right. Those qualities are not loving.

Mike [02:05:07]:
Yeah.

Eldar [02:05:07]:
You apply the opposite. Yeah.

Mike [02:05:09]:
And I think.

Eldar [02:05:10]:
I think that's love and care and showing them you do care and you love them and everything else in accordance to those.

Mike [02:05:17]:
Yeah.

Eldar [02:05:17]:
To the things that you've discovered about yourself. Absolutely.

Mike [02:05:20]:
Yeah.

Eldar [02:05:22]:
And that's what I was encouraging him to do as well. All right. Forgive himself. Ask for forgiveness. Right. And then. And then continue to build a real good relationship. Right.

Eldar [02:05:32]:
Keep doing what you think is right. You know what I mean? I think it's a little bit different with Teddy. And you can still draw some similarities on the fact that Teddy maybe has some bad qualities about being a. More of a impulsive dog. Right. You can't control certain aspects of that stuff. You can work on it just, like, totally can work on certain compulsive her qualities. You know what I mean? They're not gonna be the best results, but they could still work on some stuff.

Mike [02:06:02]:
Yeah.

Eldar [02:06:02]:
You know, and.

Mike [02:06:03]:
Yeah.

Eldar [02:06:03]:
And. But accept some stuff as well.

Mike [02:06:05]:
Yeah, that's true. And I think. I think overall, he. He is happy and he is love.

Eldar [02:06:10]:
Yeah. You know, and that's.

Mike [02:06:11]:
That's not like, he's not one of those dogs that I walk by neighborhood and he's constantly barking at the neighbor. He's not a complete.

Eldar [02:06:18]:
No, no. You know, good dog.

Mike [02:06:20]:
He's a good boy. He acts sometimes wild, but.

Eldar [02:06:23]:
Yeah.

Mike [02:06:24]:
It's not out of, like, anger, you know?

Eldar [02:06:26]:
Yeah.

Mike [02:06:26]:
It's not like we hit him or beat him or anything.

Eldar [02:06:28]:
No.

Mike [02:06:29]:
I mean, I didn't give him enough attention.

Eldar [02:06:31]:
Yeah.

Mike [02:06:32]:
You know, so, I mean. Yeah, yeah.

Eldar [02:06:39]:
Yeah. So how do we end this, guys? How do we end that? Question? The fact that maybe some people, or most people don't really know the root of the problem. Like you said, the actual cause of the problem or what's causing them pain in the first place, you said. Right. They don't even know what's causing them pain.

Toliy [02:07:02]:
Well, sometimes they can identify. I think they do. People, I think, are just naturally, uncontrollably, actually. I think, probably are able to feel pain.

Eldar [02:07:17]:
Yeah. Yeah.

Toliy [02:07:19]:
Right. And sometimes they do have some correct identifiers, but I don't think they're sure about, like, why it's happening and stuff like that.

Eldar [02:07:28]:
Yeah.

Toliy [02:07:28]:
So I would say that, like, I think we might be one episode ahead for people. I think that, like, may. Maybe I'm, like, the next episode or. Or whenever we should maybe, like, did I can episode answering the question, like. Like, are you actually in control? Like, do you actually have the. Like, is it all within?

Eldar [02:07:58]:
Mm hmm. Right.

Toliy [02:07:59]:
Because, like, I don't think that. I don't think that. That people even believe that, like, it is within. It is within. Yes. I think that's almost, like, we're almost, like, skipping a little bit of a step here. Right. I think we need to tackle the concept of, like, is.

Toliy [02:08:17]:
Is it within?

Eldar [02:08:18]:
Yeah.

Toliy [02:08:19]:
And then when people start to get a hunch about. About. Yes. That it could be within. Right. If. If they can get to a point where they believe that. Believe that and line up with that.

Eldar [02:08:29]:
Well, not even believe that. Right. Just, like, give us the possibility, some chance that it is there.

Toliy [02:08:35]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm saying they're like, if they're at that point where they do believe in, then, like, yeah, you probably have to see, like, where you're suffering, where you're experiencing pain and really. Yeah. And really just, like, pick at that thing and ask questions at that thing and, you know, share that thing with others and think about it and, like, yeah. Just, like, really do a lot of digging on it. And, I mean, I think that if you do that naturally, you'll probably get to a place where it's something within.

Eldar [02:09:10]:
Mmm.

Toliy [02:09:11]:
You. I, like, I don't think it's possible for you to put that kind of effort in and land on external variables. Right. But I do think that people that, like, before. Before people can start taking that kind of advice, like, I don't think that people believe that it is with them. Yeah, I don't think that that's nearly a general consensus.

Eldar [02:09:33]:
I agree with you. Probably not.

Toliy [02:09:34]:
And they have their reasons why.

Eldar [02:09:37]:
Yeah.

Toliy [02:09:38]:
So I think maybe in another episode we can kind of outline.

Eldar [02:09:42]:
But how do we outline something like that without having to type a person or that type of an example? Because we seems like we're convinced of this. How do we even have a conversation around that? Like, pretend to be a devil's advocate on this subject?

Toliy [02:09:56]:
Well, no, I mean, we could just talk about what we actually know that, like, who? I mean, we believe that it is within. Right.

Mike [02:10:03]:
How would you, like, how would you prove that?

Eldar [02:10:06]:
Like, I almost feel like we need a person with a problem. Right. Like, you know, for example, your dad, who always says, like, it's just the way it is. You know, like, it's external. You know what I mean? Like, we need a guy like that.

Mike [02:10:17]:
Yeah, it's hard. It's interesting.

Eldar [02:10:19]:
Who's gonna come in and say, no. Just can't do anything about it.

Mike [02:10:22]:
Yeah.

Eldar [02:10:23]:
Just can't do anything about it. Leave me alone. You just don't understand. We need that guy. Yeah, we need that, Scotty. Right? Like, yeah. You know, we need somebody who's, like, almost in demonstrate or try to challenge that individual and get him to a point where it's like, no, actually. Yeah, now that I think about it, I might have the power to change this myself, you know?

Mike [02:10:48]:
Yeah, yeah. It's very, like, the way you're saying is very hard to understand it, but it's. Yes, I think it's very hard to understand it and explain to somebody, like, okay, this makes sense in logical kind of terms because, like, what are you gonna say? Oh, yeah, you gotta buy into yourself, like, what did that even mean?

Eldar [02:11:05]:
That's what we talked about on the drive where I was like, there's these quotes.

Mike [02:11:08]:
Yeah.

Eldar [02:11:09]:
You know, the mindfulness shit.

Mike [02:11:10]:
Yeah.

Eldar [02:11:11]:
You know, be mindful in the present moment.

Mike [02:11:14]:
Yeah.

Eldar [02:11:14]:
What the fuck are you saying?

Mike [02:11:17]:
Yeah.

Toliy [02:11:17]:
Yeah. That's why I think that it's. It's like, I don't even think we need to have that. I just think that, like, if we challenge ourselves to talk about it, like, we need to try to use words to prove what Mike said. To prove that.

Eldar [02:11:30]:
Yeah.

Toliy [02:11:31]:
Like. Like, how do you prove that it is with it? Like, how can you tell me that?

Mike [02:11:35]:
Yeah. You always have, like, a real life example saying, hey, I was in this situation, and then I bought into myself, and then I was like, the outcome was this.

Eldar [02:11:45]:
Mm hmm. Yeah. We would have to just use our examples.

Mike [02:11:47]:
Yeah, probably.

Eldar [02:11:48]:
You know what I mean? Yeah.

Toliy [02:11:50]:
Because, like, yeah, I just feel like people don't buy into that.

Eldar [02:11:54]:
Yeah.

Mike [02:11:55]:
Yeah.

Toliy [02:11:56]:
Right.

Eldar [02:11:58]:
People don't buy into ability. Yeah.

Toliy [02:12:00]:
But it might be, but, yeah, they.

Mike [02:12:04]:
Don'T buy into it because it's not what's. It's not, like, the common thinking.

Eldar [02:12:08]:
It's not encouraged.

Toliy [02:12:10]:
I think it also lessens the blow.

Mike [02:12:14]:
But then all, if you hear, like, these motivational, like, rich people, that they go on, like, yeah, you gotta invest into yourself. You gotta buy. Buy into yourself. They say these things, and again, nobody understands what the fuck that means. Like, what does it mean? Okay, go buy into yourself. Okay, what should I do? Yeah, I guess you have to maybe in, like, a simple ways that you have to realize that. Yeah. The power is within you.

Mike [02:12:39]:
Like, you control every. Everything that happens, how things play out in your life.

Toliy [02:12:44]:
Yeah. Like, I think that we would need to just be able to break that down into very specific, simple concepts without saying, like, yeah, those. Like, Tommy, we probably have to, like.

Mike [02:12:56]:
Like, several examples from, like, common things that we'll start with. Like, oh, I have a balance with my parents. Like, oh, shit is dead.

Eldar [02:13:03]:
Yeah.

Mike [02:13:03]:
And then learn how to actually empower yourself in that relationship, you know? But you have to be very specific stuff.

Eldar [02:13:09]:
The thing is, Mike, the problem there is, right. I'm not sure if those examples can carry the umph of feeling that that individual's feeling within those examples where they're gonna say, ah, but you didn't touch on this little thing that I have. Yeah, you said it all. That sounds, in theory, really good. Yeah, but so then you can consider this thing. I'm special.

Mike [02:13:39]:
So then you probably. Yeah, in that case, you probably have to use the bait. That's that people, all people want. I really really want something that will probably spark that fire within them. Something.

Eldar [02:13:51]:
What is that?

Mike [02:13:51]:
I love.

Eldar [02:13:54]:
Mmm. You're gonna reference love now?

Mike [02:13:57]:
I think that's something that almost every single person wants. Right.

Eldar [02:14:05]:
If you. Yeah.

Mike [02:14:05]:
You can reroute somebody, you could say, oh, my dad's a dickhead. Fuck him. I don't want to be, you know, with him.

Eldar [02:14:10]:
Yeah.

Mike [02:14:10]:
I don't need to change about myself.

Eldar [02:14:11]:
Yeah.

Mike [02:14:12]:
But I think almost every person wants love.

Eldar [02:14:16]:
Yeah. So you can use that as a hook or as a reference point or as a reference point or an argument. Yeah.

Mike [02:14:24]:
Yeah.

Eldar [02:14:26]:
Yeah. Okay, that's interesting. Yeah, you can. Yeah, that is.

Mike [02:14:30]:
That is very appealing. Right.

Eldar [02:14:32]:
Everybody. Nobody could say.

Mike [02:14:34]:
And it carries so much power, so much emotional power.

Eldar [02:14:37]:
Yeah.

Mike [02:14:38]:
Everybody. When you watch a love movie or you see love on tv, like an avatar.

Eldar [02:14:42]:
Yeah.

Mike [02:14:43]:
Those things, they. They spark some kind of feelings within you.

Eldar [02:14:46]:
Yeah.

Mike [02:14:47]:
They just come up.

Eldar [02:14:48]:
Everybody knows it.

Mike [02:14:50]:
Yeah. You know.

Eldar [02:14:52]:
Yeah, that's true.

Mike [02:14:53]:
So I think. Yeah. I think love is probably the most powerful force that exists. Right.

Eldar [02:15:01]:
Mm hmm.

Mike [02:15:01]:
Because within it carry so much other. Other qualities. Good goodness. Yeah. So.

Eldar [02:15:08]:
Okay.

Mike [02:15:10]:
I don't know how. I think.

Eldar [02:15:11]:
Yeah. All right, so, yeah, that's. That's also a good. That's a good thing to do, for sure, to play that little experiment. Thought experiment.

Mike [02:15:17]:
Yeah.

Eldar [02:15:19]:
All right. Any other final thoughts? Well, I think it was very good.

Mike [02:15:22]:
Yeah, I never. I mean, they definitely. Bringing light to the anger thing was good. That definitely did help, you know, cuz I didn't think about it as such a huge thing, but I do realize that it does. He can peek its head often.

Eldar [02:15:36]:
Yeah. Yeah. If it's often enough. Yeah. Then maybe it needs attention.

Mike [02:15:41]:
Yeah, it does. Yeah.

Eldar [02:15:43]:
You know what I mean?

Mike [02:15:44]:
But I guess understanding what. Because the anger is just on the back end. Right. Or it's the front end. Like, is a result of something else.

Eldar [02:15:54]:
Like. Yeah, like you said, control. It's the front. It's the front. The back end. Something else. The back end, track back.

Mike [02:16:00]:
Now, the control wanted to control all the situations, not getting your way.

Eldar [02:16:03]:
Right.

Mike [02:16:04]:
Like probably feeling some kind of injustice and then attaching to that.

Eldar [02:16:08]:
Yeah.

Mike [02:16:09]:
You know, it could be a lot of different.

Eldar [02:16:10]:
It could be a lot of stuff. Yeah. You would have to.

Mike [02:16:12]:
Yeah.

Eldar [02:16:13]:
Dig them probably.

Mike [02:16:15]:
Yeah. Not knowing how to process the competition when I was young, that was a huge one. Probably.

Eldar [02:16:21]:
Yeah. But.

Mike [02:16:21]:
Yeah.

Eldar [02:16:22]:
That's funny. We just had a topic on anger.

Mike [02:16:26]:
Yeah.

Eldar [02:16:26]:
For Asa. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Mike [02:16:30]:
I wasn't ready to unpackage it.

Eldar [02:16:33]:
Yeah.

Mike [02:16:34]:
I wasn't ready to admit myself that I'm an angry person.

Eldar [02:16:37]:
So today you, did you say, I.

Mike [02:16:40]:
Think I peeked in to the box.

Eldar [02:16:41]:
Into the box.

Mike [02:16:42]:
I don't think I admitted to myself yet because, like. Yeah, you have to uncover everything and really pace yourself.

Eldar [02:16:47]:
Yeah.

Mike [02:16:48]:
You know, I think it's. Now I have something to look into.

Eldar [02:16:51]:
Mm hmm.

Mike [02:16:52]:
You know, which is. I think it's good.

Eldar [02:16:54]:
Yeah. Question is this, is anger a requirement.

Mike [02:17:02]:
For guilt to exist so you cannot feel guilty unless you're angry?

Eldar [02:17:07]:
Unless there's anger.

Mike [02:17:11]:
Interesting.

Eldar [02:17:12]:
That's what, like, formulated.

Mike [02:17:15]:
I'm trying to think of scenarios where it exists.

Eldar [02:17:23]:
Can it exist without anger?

Mike [02:17:25]:
Yeah, cuz anger and guilt, when they mix, it's more. So you feel guilty because you got angry but out of control. It was not a controlled. Right.

Eldar [02:17:34]:
You feel bad. Right.

Mike [02:17:35]:
So it was bad for you. Unconscious anger, whatever it is, that led to guilt.

Eldar [02:17:40]:
Yeah.

Mike [02:17:41]:
But can conscious anger lead to guilt?

Eldar [02:17:43]:
What is conscious anger?

Mike [02:17:44]:
I don't know. Is that a thing?

Eldar [02:17:45]:
I'm not sure.

Mike [02:17:46]:
I don't know. So all anger is unconscious. Right. Ignorance is ignorant.

Eldar [02:17:51]:
Yeah.

Mike [02:17:52]:
So then probably not.

Eldar [02:17:55]:
Yeah. So guilty being guilty. Feel guilty. Feeling guilt.

Mike [02:18:01]:
Yeah. He is being angry at yourself.

Eldar [02:18:05]:
Some form of anger towards yourself to.

Mike [02:18:07]:
Be ignorant at a previous point.

Eldar [02:18:08]:
Right. Your dog thing. Right?

Mike [02:18:10]:
Yeah.

Eldar [02:18:10]:
You know what I mean? You've been angry at him for misbehaving, for barking or whatever.

Mike [02:18:15]:
Yeah.

Eldar [02:18:15]:
Right. You displayed a form of anger and expressed it, and now. Now you're like, hey, I want to be a better person. Angry is not the right thing. I used to be angry at him. I feel guilty now. Mm hmm. Hmm.

Eldar [02:18:27]:
No. All right, cool. I guess we'll tackle it next time.

Mike [02:18:30]:
Yeah.

Eldar [02:18:30]:
You know?

Toliy [02:18:31]:
Yeah, it's a hard one.

Eldar [02:18:33]:
Hard one, right? Yeah. Okay. I'm glad that you were at least thinking about it, that you're checked out.

Mike [02:18:38]:
Thinking about it.

Eldar [02:18:40]:
Yeah. You know, or is it like. Is it a requirement? That's a prerequisite in order to be guilty, feel guilty about something, there had to be some kind of anger connection there.

Mike [02:18:53]:
Yeah, I think that. I think that might be us.

Eldar [02:18:55]:
It might be. Yes, I think so. We'll think about it more. Think about throughout the week.

Mike [02:18:59]:
Yeah.

Eldar [02:19:00]:
If you follow us on Twitter, Dennis rocks. Dennis Rocks podcast, we might have some tidbits for you as we keep thinking about it.

Mike [02:19:11]:
Yeah.

Eldar [02:19:11]:
All right, guys, good job, man. This was great.

Mike [02:19:13]:
It's good.

Eldar [02:19:14]:
See it. Thank you. Bye.