54. Mindfulness in Action: Examining Inner Conflicts and Societal Norms - podcast episode cover

54. Mindfulness in Action: Examining Inner Conflicts and Societal Norms

Dennis Rox
Jan 27, 2023•2 hr 53 min•Ep. 54
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Episode description

In Episode 54 of Dennis Rox, the hosts Eldar, Toliy, and Mike are joined by guest Tommy for a thought-provoking discussion on mindfulness, values, and personal growth. The conversation kicks off with Toliy’s candid admission of struggling with mindfulness, setting the stage for a deep dive into the complexities of what it means to live mindfully. Tommy elaborates on hiding one's inner artist and the societal pressures to conform, sharing an anecdote about balancing education with personal potential. The episode intricately weaves through how our values shape actions and goals, often revealing internal conflicts and the pursuit of genuine happiness.

As the conversation progresses, the hosts and Tommy challenge the definitions of power, respect, and societal expectations, particularly in the context of education and material wealth. They explore the significance of individual values in shaping self-perception and the potential pitfalls of living up to external standards. Through personal stories and philosophical debates, the group underscores the importance of self-examination and ownership of one's experiences to avoid adopting a victim mentality. Ultimately, this episode pushes listeners to reflect on their own value systems and encourages them to seek a harmonious balance between societal norms and personal fulfillment.

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Transcript

Toliy [00:00:00]:
On this week's episode, honestly, I think in general, mindfulness is complete B's.

Tommy [00:00:04]:
T is definitely hiding his inner artist. This guy's a shadow artist. He's happier denying he's a closet artist. His inner mindfulness, he's happier denying that or not talking about it because he's afraid of what kinds of creative forces might start playing a role in his life. I'm just trying to be an artist. That's it. I'm trying to be a writer. I'm trying to be somebody who creates, somebody who uses the knowledge for that purpose.

Mike [00:00:26]:
Do you think that a person who's sick is qualified to diagnose his own sickness and to give him his own medicine?

Toliy [00:00:32]:
He's a guy who said that selfishness starts with the box that opens itself.

Tommy [00:00:36]:
Okay, wasn't that furry McFosnutz or.

Eldar [00:00:53]:
I? Alright, guys, so the topic for today is how our values developed or dropped or changed, right. And how what we value holds us down sometimes, right. Without even us knowing about it. Right. How do we come up with the topic? Mike, I know you posed a lot of good questions this week, a lot of hard questions to try to answer, right? But we got to a point where we, again, come to find out and ask, right, what is the reason why people don't actually, I guess, actualize themselves or actualize some of the goals that they have and things that they supposedly value or they say that they value. Right. But they don't have that switch where they actually put the action behind it. Right.

Mike [00:01:37]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:01:37]:
So we started going to the whole, I guess, world of values, what we value, what we don't value. And then you came up with a very good conclusion as to why you might not value something, you know? And you were very honest. Right. You said, you said something along the lines of the reason why I didn't take steps or any necessary action to pursue that which I seem to say that I value is because I don't value it enough. So how are values developed then? And how are they formed? What are they? Right. And how can you drop them if they're the wrong values that you have? Right. Are they holding us back from, from a bigger value system that's, that's important for us? Right. One example that you can't, you.

Eldar [00:02:21]:
We came up with, we talked about was an example of an individual who is esteeming. Right. A luxury life. Right. A life of luxury where he's esteemed. Right. For his, let's just say things, nice things, like a Rolex, a nice car and all this other stuff. And he enjoys that.

Eldar [00:02:40]:
And then that same person in the other breath. Right. Wants to fall in love. Let's just say. And if you compare the two different lifestyles, right. The value systems, especially. Right. What it requires to fall in love, to be loved, what kind of person you have to be.

Eldar [00:02:56]:
You quickly find out that the person who's esteeming luxuries is just saying, wants to be valued for that aspect of their life. Does not. It doesn't make sense when it comes to the life of love. Right.

Mike [00:03:12]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:03:12]:
Righteousness. Right.

Mike [00:03:14]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:03:15]:
So you quickly find out that here's one person who's valuing one thing and doing one thing. Right.

Mike [00:03:19]:
Mm hmm.

Eldar [00:03:20]:
Showing his flashiness out there. Right. But also, maybe deep inside, tells himself or others that they want to find love, want to be in love.

Mike [00:03:29]:
Mm hmm.

Eldar [00:03:30]:
And you know those two different value systems. So how is that holding us back? You know? And, um. And if we come across that we. We have different value systems that are clashing, how do we drop one?

Tommy [00:03:44]:
I met this kid yesterday on a bus. He said, uh, something that's similar to what I used to say. I'm not sure if I need school for the things that I'm thinking about doing.

Eldar [00:03:55]:
Okay.

Tommy [00:03:57]:
And yet he had a plan to change his major from engineering to business. So he has this plan, but his plan is also kind of vague because it's a plan to change something within the school, while another part of him values his own potential to do something without it, to do something without school. I think those two kinds of values, like, I am worthy of, and I'm taking advantage of my education in a way that serves me. So, like, he's worthy of just being good on his own. And then he is also, like. He also values, like, school could be, like, those two different kinds of things that clash with each other.

Eldar [00:04:42]:
Say that again. Which one clashes with the other one?

Tommy [00:04:44]:
So he value of one. He says, I could do this on my own. The other says, I can do this if I just changed my degree.

Eldar [00:04:51]:
Hmm. Okay. So I'm not sure. I'm not sure which classes are there, because unless he. We evaluate the different education system and learning styles. Right. We would need to put it against what is it that he's trying to accomplish. Right.

Eldar [00:05:06]:
And see whether or not both ways can get him there. Right. There might be no clash there. It just might be two different roads. Right.

Tommy [00:05:15]:
I think he was after just basically being wealthy or having more money, which.

Mike [00:05:22]:
I think that's a value.

Tommy [00:05:24]:
That's the value.

Mike [00:05:25]:
Now, if you said, yeah, I think I'm, you know, I want to be wealthy, you know, or, you know, or that's one value, but. Or say, you know what? But I also want to be, you know, devote my life to, like, volunteering. I don't know, helping people. Right. Those things are. Don't. You can't combine those two. They don't.

Mike [00:05:49]:
They clash with each other. Two different schools of thought. You can't devote your life to becoming wealthy and at the same time devote your life to being a volunteer. You know, it doesn't. It doesn't kind of, like, is there.

Tommy [00:06:01]:
Something about being wealthy that's too general to allow for happiness?

Eldar [00:06:05]:
No, no, no, I don't think so. But, like, my example was a very specific one about esteeming a life of luxury, right. And seeing kind of. And enjoying that and then craving that, wanting to be that. Right. Against the values that, let's just say a life of love. Right. And understanding what love is and how it is.

Eldar [00:06:29]:
There's going to be some clashes there, I think. You know what I mean?

Toliy [00:06:32]:
Oh, okay.

Mike [00:06:33]:
Okay.

Tommy [00:06:33]:
Now I didn't hear it the first time. I got it.

Mike [00:06:35]:
You can value honesty and then lie to your parents. You can value honesty and then steal from your friends. Right. Like, those two things.

Eldar [00:06:42]:
Yeah. You can't say you're. You value loyalty and then cheat on your wife.

Mike [00:06:45]:
Yeah.

Tommy [00:06:46]:
Oh, so this is. This also goes back to that kind of one of the episodes about, like, wanting to. Where you responded to someone on a Facebook post who wanted to live this life with.

Mike [00:06:58]:
Oh, yeah, the lady.

Tommy [00:06:59]:
Yeah. With in. I don't know, one of those, like, off the grid homes or something and had a spouse who said, it's nothing really, for me.

Mike [00:07:08]:
Yeah.

Tommy [00:07:08]:
Well, if you're steaming like wealth, right, at the same time trying to, like, have a balanced, loving partnership that doesn't work out, is that by design or. I mean. Or would it just require some steps, like, to say, okay, we're agreeing on this?

Eldar [00:07:31]:
Well, when something doesn't work out, what do you think are the reasons for it is. What are some reasons? Do you think that something would not work out, be it you getting wealth or you staying in America?

Tommy [00:07:40]:
Oh, this happened to me with school. You know, in school, I valued, like, my education, I guess, or knowledge so much that I believe that it could sort of, like, end the suffering that's, like, inherent in just being part of a society that. Where people compete for things and things that they desire. You know, it feels like school. Like, the classroom is a fair place where that's ruled by a hierarchy, but it's not necessarily true. You know, in my case, that hierarchy would be. I'm probably older and wiser than you, so, you know, you should at least show some deference or some respect. But that value putting my education into those.

Tommy [00:08:28]:
Putting my chips onto, like, the hierarchy thing.

Eldar [00:08:31]:
Yeah.

Tommy [00:08:32]:
Is something that. That's clash with me. Like, it doesn't allow me to go back to a life that I enjoy and love when I face those. The challenges inherent in, like, me putting my value in that idea where I'm gonna go in and you're gonna respect me, and that's how it's.

Eldar [00:08:51]:
Would you say that a lot of times you find yourself in situations where you seem to value certain things and you go after it, but when it comes down to it, other. Your. Your internal values actually don't allow you to proceed with that particular thing, so you drop it.

Tommy [00:09:06]:
Okay. Yeah, I think so. I think that's the reason for me losing interest, is feeling some kind of internal conflict, I guess, like psychological conflict.

Eldar [00:09:19]:
Well, yeah, I think that a lot of times when we say, let's just say we value something, we want something, right? A specific life or specific goal or lifestyle, we a lot of times say to ourselves, oh, this would be nice. You know what I'm saying internally? So, like, I think I want this, you know? But as soon as we go and start taking the steps onto it, we realize that that mountain to climb very big, and we're like, wait a second.

Mike [00:09:42]:
No, we don't want it.

Eldar [00:09:44]:
Is there a way to go around this?

Mike [00:09:46]:
Yeah.

Tommy [00:09:46]:
You know what I mean to say I value education is very, like, PC. When you say. When I say I value my education, I mean, like, I'm gonna be good at this. I'm gonna get smarter. People are gonna respect me. That's. That's the whole process. I'm gonna be good at this because I'm smarter, possibly, or I'm more dedicated.

Eldar [00:10:05]:
Define, what does it mean to be good at? Right. If you actually value it, you have to say, what does it mean to be good at? For example, if you define and say, you have to be prompt as well, right? You have to be handing in your homework, going to class, be consistent with it, then I would. Then we analyze your actions and what you actually do. We quickly find out that you don't value education as much as you as you say you do. Because to really value something is to really care about it. Right? So if you are late school, you don't go to class, you drop classes, and you don't do your homework.

Tommy [00:10:35]:
I guess what I value is really the power.

Eldar [00:10:37]:
Is that.

Tommy [00:10:37]:
Is that a value that you have?

Eldar [00:10:39]:
It could be, yeah, exactly. See, that's a different story. You might say I value education, but what is. What about education? Do you actually value, and you actually be valuing the power that you want behind education and why? Because you just said earlier you want to be respected.

Mike [00:10:53]:
Mm hmm.

Tommy [00:10:54]:
Yes.

Eldar [00:10:55]:
Correct.

Mike [00:10:55]:
Yeah. That's a conflict.

Eldar [00:10:59]:
That is potentially. It is a potentially clear conflict if.

Mike [00:11:02]:
That'S not the person you want to be.

Tommy [00:11:04]:
Right.

Eldar [00:11:05]:
You somehow told yourself that through education, you will get some kind of respect.

Tommy [00:11:12]:
Yes. Because that's traditionally been my experience with it. Studying alone. Yeah. It's an internal experience, and it's an experience that I describe as being sort of connected with some inner energy or some life energy.

Eldar [00:11:27]:
But you have respect for yourself, potential.

Tommy [00:11:29]:
To have respect to change others or to change the world. Like, not that. Not directly. I'm not trying to change people directly. I mean.

Eldar [00:11:36]:
But.

Tommy [00:11:36]:
Okay, you know, let's just say roughly, it might connect me with the people who are interested in these kinds of things. To know something relevant, you know, to know something relevant is to, like, be part of your, you know, some part of society. I think, roughly speaking, I haven't thought this through.

Eldar [00:11:55]:
Okay. So you. But, yes, value education, esteemed by the society, that you did the right thing by them, therefore, you have accomplished something in their eyes, and you get power.

Tommy [00:12:07]:
I think it does. It results in power, but it's. That power, for me, has been a kind of turbulent journey.

Eldar [00:12:15]:
And what power will you get, Tom, from completing the league?

Tommy [00:12:21]:
It's not necessarily about that, but in terms of power, it might result in just overall being a more wholesome person. Lack of a better term, wholesome person. Like a more.

Mike [00:12:35]:
The certificate, the education. Knowing that you have that education is the same as knowing you have that fake watch. The fake or the real watch, either one. It represents something. And you, because of your flawed thinking, you think you can rely on that. But once you go out there into the world and you try to flex your degree or your fake watch, you're still the same loser from Poughkeepsie.

Eldar [00:12:58]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:12:59]:
Not you, necessarily.

Eldar [00:13:00]:
No.

Mike [00:13:00]:
Possibly you.

Tommy [00:13:01]:
I think that those are real terms.

Eldar [00:13:02]:
We're gonna see that. We're gonna test that theory when you come out there, but I think you can bully the world with it.

Tommy [00:13:08]:
I don't know if that's. It's really about bullying. Maybe it's more about, um. Maybe it's more about, like.

Eldar [00:13:15]:
It is about bullying.

Tommy [00:13:16]:
Well, t t always talks about being.

Eldar [00:13:19]:
No, I know, but is it about it for him? Is it about that for him?

Mike [00:13:22]:
Well, he said it's about power.

Eldar [00:13:24]:
He wants to be respected. Totally.

Toliy [00:13:25]:
Yeah. I mean, I I think that, like, the clock, like, uh. I don't know, like, the banning of the school probably comes from feeling of. Of, like, powerlessness.

Tommy [00:13:35]:
Yes. He's always saying this. Yeah. You're always saying it. I mean, you're often saying.

Toliy [00:13:39]:
Yeah, like, this. Situations that are not good or, like, you know, something is like, more like. Like. Because, like, there's, I think probably some classes where it's, like, extremely straightforward. Here's a lesson.

Eldar [00:13:53]:
Mm hmm.

Toliy [00:13:54]:
Here's a test.

Eldar [00:13:55]:
Mm hmm.

Toliy [00:13:55]:
Here's the homework.

Eldar [00:13:56]:
Nothing's open for interpretation.

Toliy [00:13:58]:
Here's what it's due.

Eldar [00:13:59]:
Mm hmm.

Toliy [00:14:01]:
Right.

Eldar [00:14:01]:
Yeah.

Toliy [00:14:02]:
No extensions. And when that's happening, when it's a feeling of, like, yo, I'm trying to be held responsible. There's a powerlessness feeling in that when you're not able to, like, live up.

Eldar [00:14:14]:
To those kind of standards, when you can't rebel.

Toliy [00:14:16]:
Yeah, I think when that happens, those. The classes, are those the ones that get.

Eldar [00:14:20]:
Yeah.

Tommy [00:14:21]:
Or if you feel like me, like no one gives a damn about you.

Toliy [00:14:25]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:14:25]:
You see? Holy shit.

Tommy [00:14:27]:
Yo, that's a can of worms right there, for sure.

Toliy [00:14:31]:
Yeah. Now, the classes with those kind of teachers who are, like, you know, a little hipster and, like, late to class. Yeah, yeah, late to class. You know, maybe minor drinking problem.

Eldar [00:14:43]:
Yes. Right.

Toliy [00:14:45]:
And they're, like, more about, like, not about, like, grading the work or, like, you know, like that.

Eldar [00:14:50]:
Creators.

Toliy [00:14:51]:
Those the ones. Yeah. More about the ones.

Eldar [00:14:53]:
Open ended arts.

Toliy [00:14:54]:
Open ended arts. Yeah. Those.

Mike [00:14:56]:
The ones that are up Tom's alley.

Toliy [00:14:58]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:15:00]:
More appealing.

Toliy [00:15:00]:
Yeah. And the thing we're bullying the world is that, like, I think to bully the world, you actually, like, you need to be able to do something and do it consistently, and you have to, like, like it.

Eldar [00:15:12]:
Be good at it.

Toliy [00:15:13]:
Yeah. Like, there's. There's a lot of factors. I think that there will definitely be challenges in bullying the world because, like. Like, just because you have a degree, if the fundamentals of, like, not being able to focus, like, short attention span, lack of hard work. Right. Like, lack of skill, like, if those things are present, I don't think that you'll be able to trick the people paying.

Eldar [00:15:37]:
So would you say that Tom actually's values all backwards and that's why he keeps finding himself in that middle ground between what he should be doing and what he's actually doing?

Toliy [00:15:46]:
Yeah. I mean, like, I think whenever you're valuing, like, seeking respect from other individuals, I don't see it. Whether you accomplish it or not, I don't see it ending well for an individual, you know, because it's like, yeah, you're. You're living life for somebody else and not for yourself. And I don't think that even if you get what you're after, there, the feeling that you get, I think that you'll grow, that it's not enough.

Eldar [00:16:17]:
Hmm.

Toliy [00:16:17]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:16:18]:
So, Tom.

Tommy [00:16:19]:
Yeah?

Eldar [00:16:19]:
Would you say that this particular value holds you down?

Tommy [00:16:22]:
It does, because it's sort of like an addiction.

Eldar [00:16:25]:
Whoa. Interesting.

Tommy [00:16:27]:
It's.

Eldar [00:16:28]:
What part of it are you addicted to? Because you haven't accomplished it yet. Right?

Tommy [00:16:32]:
Oh, it's the. You'll see. Addiction, you know?

Eldar [00:16:34]:
You'll see. I'll show you.

Tommy [00:16:36]:
That's the thing.

Mike [00:16:36]:
Proving people wrong.

Toliy [00:16:37]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:16:37]:
That's the revenge tour that we always talk about.

Mike [00:16:40]:
Yeah.

Tommy [00:16:41]:
Revenge tour.

Mike [00:16:43]:
Yeah.

Tommy [00:16:43]:
What does that mean?

Eldar [00:16:44]:
You want to revenge fuck somebody? No, I. You want to tell somebody, look, I did it.

Tommy [00:16:53]:
If you achieve.

Toliy [00:16:54]:
Right?

Tommy [00:16:54]:
Right. If you achieve what you set out to achieve, then there's no. There's no losing.

Eldar [00:16:59]:
Right?

Tommy [00:17:00]:
If you are determined on what you set out to get, then there is really no losing. There is. There is power in that. But if it's within those rules, like you said, here's the assignment. Here comes one that. Here comes what's next? Here comes what's next. Then really, you're playing a really dangerous game, I guess, because with yourself, if you're. If you don't, you don't, like, allow the inner reason to appeal to what you truly desire, what the real you wants, and you continue to just go in the direction of what others want for you, you know, from you, I think that's kind of how it works for me.

Tommy [00:17:39]:
The whole education thing is, yes, I want these outcomes. Like, I want to. I want to perform really well. I want to impress. I want to, you know, I want to gain power and gain knowledge, because knowledge is power, so they say. That's kind of how it works. That's been a broken system for me for a while now, for a pretty long time. And now the question is, how do you like, if that's a value, what do you.

Tommy [00:18:05]:
What's going on?

Eldar [00:18:06]:
Yeah, that's the problem, I think, because you have so many. So much turmoil in that value system itself. You constantly up and down, you know, start and going, start and going. Like, you just, you know, start and.

Tommy [00:18:15]:
Stopping, you know, that's always natural. Like, progression with what I've found is the natural progression is, like, I. You know, like, I withdraw a little bit, and just. My mind works like that. I. When you. When we get upset, we withdraw, you know, when, like, the power is unstable, like, sort of. I withdraw, I guess.

Eldar [00:18:40]:
Yeah.

Toliy [00:18:40]:
Yeah.

Tommy [00:18:41]:
Until. Until the next, like, wave comes, which is. It's okay, but it's very tumultuous. Like, is my life not tumultuous, guys? Like.

Mike [00:18:49]:
Mm hmm.

Tommy [00:18:50]:
Not a fucking.

Eldar [00:18:51]:
I mean, do you prefer the cycle or.

Tommy [00:18:52]:
No, I think I did until I really started thinking differently, let's say.

Eldar [00:18:57]:
So this is a different time around.

Toliy [00:18:59]:
No.

Tommy [00:19:00]:
Yes, because I say it's.

Eldar [00:19:04]:
Well, again, right? You came here, you told us about your spiel. We. Again, like, we heard this many times, obviously, you know what I mean, that you're gonna go yet again on this journey of education. This time you're saying it's different. So tell us what it's going to.

Toliy [00:19:18]:
Be different because my. My mom once told my dad when he was trying to, like, ask something and to get something, and he was kind of getting denied in that. I don't remember what exactly, but then, like, some time, like, late later, he asked it again, right? And my mom said the same thing. And my dad said. And my mom said to my dad, Peter, you're just putting on a different, uh, outfit, but going to the same door.

Eldar [00:19:45]:
Mm hmm.

Toliy [00:19:47]:
This is what it sounds like is happening to me.

Tommy [00:19:50]:
Okay?

Eldar [00:19:50]:
So if I get caught, I'm gonna get caught.

Tommy [00:19:53]:
I'm gonna take your example, and I'm gonna. I'm gonna modify it a little bit.

Eldar [00:19:57]:
Well, his mascara. Not to resemble something else differently.

Toliy [00:20:02]:
No. The red lipstick was bleeding. Bleeding through.

Tommy [00:20:05]:
My idea might be a modification of what you said. Instead of wearing different clothes, let's say, uh, I'm I'm sort of. I'm I'm asking if. I'm asking maybe the universe, or I'm asking the people around me to maybe let me through option b, like the second door or the third door, you know, instead of walking through the same door.

Toliy [00:20:31]:
Why are you asking?

Tommy [00:20:33]:
The same demand, let's say.

Toliy [00:20:34]:
But why are you asking anybody to let you in through anywhere?

Eldar [00:20:37]:
Why?

Tommy [00:20:38]:
Because. I don't know. I'm just applying it to your problem. You said you asked for something, right? And that thing might, you might get. No, you know what I mean? So.

Toliy [00:20:48]:
So you put on a different.

Tommy [00:20:49]:
Why go through that? Yeah, why put on a different outfit and go through the same door?

Toliy [00:20:54]:
You told me.

Tommy [00:20:55]:
Why not? You don't know put on a different outfit and go through a different door, which is a huge change, let's say.

Eldar [00:21:00]:
What's the change?

Tommy [00:21:01]:
Oh, see, not only are you going.

Eldar [00:21:03]:
What has changed in your house, are.

Tommy [00:21:05]:
You going through a different door, but now you are wearing a different outfit.

Toliy [00:21:11]:
So what's the difference? What's this big change that nobody here is?

Eldar [00:21:15]:
Yeah. Like, we could talk metaphorically that you created a new door, which you're supposed to do. Right? You're supposed to chisel out a new door, a brand new door for yourself and have a different outfit and everything else different. What does that represent for you? What new door have you chiseled out for yourself?

Toliy [00:21:29]:
He's asking you, how did you fundamentally change.

Eldar [00:21:31]:
Yeah, how did you fundamentally change that? This is. This time around, it's gonna be different because we're not convinced. And the reason why we're not convinced, because we don't have that information, you didn't make it privy to. You didn't make us privy to it. So we're shooting in the dark here.

Tommy [00:21:45]:
We're going over something is quite simple. I'll explain it like this. It's basically mindfulness. And I feel that mindfulness has changed my approach to meeting with people or, like, on some common ground or something. I'm just. Just talking here. But I think it's mindfulness. I really do think it's mindfulness.

Tommy [00:22:06]:
Um, it's self care. Mindfulness. Um, and a willingness to sort of stay present in the moment.

Toliy [00:22:18]:
Okay.

Tommy [00:22:19]:
I guess it's faith, too, and hope that these things. These. These number. A number of, like, things that I.

Eldar [00:22:25]:
Do align for you, Will.

Tommy [00:22:27]:
Yeah, well, like, let the things align.

Eldar [00:22:29]:
Yeah. Hope.

Toliy [00:22:30]:
Yeah, I would say that. Like, uh. Yeah, yeah. I mean, like. Like, it sounds like you're trying to stand on the deck of cards.

Tommy [00:22:39]:
Stand on a deck of cards. Is it still in the box or.

Eldar [00:22:42]:
Like, the house of cards?

Toliy [00:22:44]:
The floor is, like, razor sharp spikes, and under those is, like, piranhas that will, like, just eat you alive. And you're. And you're standing on, like, individual cards stay up. That, like, how can you talk about, like, fundamental change and this, that and, like, be standing on hope and faith?

Mike [00:23:05]:
Yeah, that's the thing. I think what he's saying is the problem for most people, and they don't understand it well.

Eldar [00:23:12]:
Yeah, that's what I'm saying. A lot of the times. Right. And we talked about that more, too. Right. The reason why we sometimes experience depression, confusion, which can then lead to, you know, deeper mental health problems. Right. It's because we never actually ironed out our value systems, examined them properly, and then followed, you know, with the right actions.

Eldar [00:23:36]:
Right. So when you start getting questioned a little bit as to, like, what has changed, why is this different? Right. Because you keep talking about, why is this gonna be different? Right. You quickly find that people don't really have really good reasons as to why this time is going to be different.

Toliy [00:23:50]:
Correct.

Tommy [00:23:51]:
Nothing has changed, even in the unknown. What if everything is going dandy like t one said, and then something just comes out of left field and suddenly topples your day? Well, if you don't have the proper way of questioning that, even with good values, actually, this is definitely not gonna like this, because if you have good values, you're gonna live a good life. But, or let's say, I just mean sometimes, like, life can just happen and then sort of, you may not be able to deal with it and end up in the depressive state, you know, like, even with everything is going fine, what, how do you, like, how do.

Mike [00:24:39]:
You, so what I'm asking is that you're not gonna be able to bat a thousand. You can't, no matter how much, you know, what you do.

Tommy [00:24:47]:
Oh, wait.

Eldar [00:24:48]:
No, no.

Tommy [00:24:48]:
I can't say can.

Mike [00:24:50]:
There's no way you can bat a thousand.

Tommy [00:24:52]:
What I'm saying is, okay, so, like, say you're emotionally hurt by something, right?

Mike [00:24:57]:
Mm hmm.

Tommy [00:24:59]:
And, and you're emotionally hurt, even though you stand pretty firm on your values and your beliefs, mindfully. You're unmindful. I'm hurt.

Eldar [00:25:08]:
Right.

Tommy [00:25:08]:
I'm mindful. But now something came at me, and.

Mike [00:25:11]:
I don't know, what does it mean to be mindful?

Tommy [00:25:14]:
That's the thing. What if you don't know the answer to that question?

Eldar [00:25:19]:
Yeah. How do you using that word and.

Toliy [00:25:20]:
Saying that, that's your fundamental change? You know what it is?

Tommy [00:25:24]:
Well, let's say, let's say you know how to be mindful, but you, you get emotionally upset by some hat, then how do you know?

Toliy [00:25:31]:
Mike just asked you, what does it mean to be mindful? Well, you said, that's it.

Tommy [00:25:35]:
Okay, so when you're emotionally upset, they don't, the two don't necessarily, like.

Toliy [00:25:41]:
No, Mike asked.

Tommy [00:25:42]:
You interact with one.

Toliy [00:25:43]:
What do you mean to be mindful?

Tommy [00:25:45]:
If I'm mindful.

Toliy [00:25:46]:
Right.

Tommy [00:25:47]:
I'm mindful of someone else.

Toliy [00:25:48]:
Or what does that mean?

Tommy [00:25:50]:
Oh, um, how does it look like? It means, like, acknowledging others, listening to others. And I guess I guess it also means, you know, like, patience, you know, maybe some openness too.

Mike [00:26:09]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:26:10]:
So be being all those things that help you see the world for what it is.

Tommy [00:26:15]:
Correct.

Toliy [00:26:16]:
Right.

Eldar [00:26:17]:
Which you need to slow down to be able to listen carefully to what's actually going on so you can process the information carefully.

Toliy [00:26:23]:
Right.

Eldar [00:26:23]:
Which is mindfulness.

Tommy [00:26:24]:
That is a sort of pickup, too. Picks you up a little bit and then.

Eldar [00:26:27]:
And then be able to process that, what you're getting right. From the world, from the stimulus out there.

Tommy [00:26:31]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:26:32]:
Right. To be able to understand it properly through being mindful. Right. Of how to do it. Yeah. Okay.

Tommy [00:26:41]:
Okay. Yes. But what if. What if your mindfulness, let's say, is not good enough?

Eldar [00:26:46]:
Took a vacation for a couple days. On vacation. Yeah.

Mike [00:26:50]:
I think proof.

Eldar [00:26:52]:
How do you know?

Tommy [00:26:52]:
It's like a hundred percent.

Mike [00:26:54]:
You said mindfulness is not bulletproof. You know why? Because mindfulness is. I'm not sure if it necessarily has to be rooted in the things you believe in. You know, you can fake being mindful for so long. Like, you come out of yoga class, you're this peaceful, nice person. You're mindful. Then you get on the highway and you start giving people the birth. That's why.

Eldar [00:27:13]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:27:14]:
Your mind.

Eldar [00:27:15]:
Right. Yeah.

Mike [00:27:16]:
You're mindful for that moment, I think.

Eldar [00:27:17]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:27:18]:
But, yeah, you have to. You can't fit. You can't. I'm not sure there's a way to.

Eldar [00:27:25]:
Get around without valuing and have an actual real system about.

Mike [00:27:29]:
Yes.

Eldar [00:27:30]:
Being mindful.

Mike [00:27:31]:
Yes.

Eldar [00:27:32]:
Right. Yeah, yeah. You go.

Mike [00:27:36]:
It's not gonna stick.

Eldar [00:27:37]:
It's not gonna stick. Yeah. You're just gonna be flip flopping.

Toliy [00:27:40]:
Honestly, I think in general, mindfulness is complete B's. What are we talking about? Like, like, what are we talking about?

Tommy [00:27:51]:
Let me pose a scenario.

Toliy [00:27:52]:
Somebody of mindfulness, this meditation, like, you're talking about, like, you having efforts to be temporary, paint temporary, temporarily paying attention to what's going on and have that be like. Like a intentionally induced.

Tommy [00:28:09]:
Okay.

Eldar [00:28:10]:
Yeah, t. Okay.

Toliy [00:28:11]:
Like, it just sound.

Mike [00:28:12]:
Everybody's.

Tommy [00:28:13]:
There was a. What's. Remember that, that guy who told you at the basketball court, why do you hate me? T. And you were like. I kept thinking about that. Like, how is it that in a way, like, I don't know. How is that. How does that affect.

Tommy [00:28:29]:
How does it affect somebody who. Well, it doesn't necessarily mean that mindfulness, I guess, makes you feel peace at all times. Being mindful, like, I guess, involves just means, like I can empathize or sympathize, actually somebody.

Mike [00:28:46]:
All the examples that you gave of mindfulness, from what I heard, it was everything was rooted towards the external, towards other person, be everything towards that person. So what you're doing is you're saying, like, I'm not sure how it works psychologically, but what you're saying is like, hey, I have to be mindful of others. I have to respect others. What were those four things you said? Respect? Patience. Right. But I. The problem is, until you apply those to yourself, you will never be able to consistently apply those to anybody else.

Eldar [00:29:17]:
Agreed.

Mike [00:29:18]:
And that's those things that you mentioned.

Eldar [00:29:19]:
Those are values.

Tommy [00:29:20]:
Okay, so what if you're mindful, but the person sitting across from you at all?

Eldar [00:29:25]:
Okay, stop right there. I think the reason why it's b's totally. It's not because mindfulness doesn't work. It's because right when we sit there in the yoga class and the teacher is like, yeah, be mindful of your neighbor, all this other stuff. Right, right. They almost tune you in for the moment, right into the. Into their level of understanding or whatever it is. However, you have a different value system.

Toliy [00:29:46]:
That's what I'm saying, ultimately.

Eldar [00:29:47]:
Right. You just. You just. You were just like, hey, guys, buy this. You know, this nice little shiny item, which is mindfulness. You know what I mean? But it doesn't. Doesn't take away from the fact that your value system is riddled with piece of shit behavior.

Mike [00:30:02]:
Yeah.

Toliy [00:30:02]:
Yeah. So how are you gonna go and do these things where you have this temporary things of, like, feeling good, and then you just go back to being a piece of shit?

Tommy [00:30:11]:
Well, I feel like you're. You're probably one of the best at dealing with, like, the nonsense types of folks. Like, you're always kind of rock solid on that, and I don't understand how that works. But does mindfulness play a role in that, doing that? Like, being able to give me example what you're talking about, filter out, like, these nonsense.

Mike [00:30:29]:
What is.

Eldar [00:30:29]:
What is my behavior? What kind of behavior you're talking about? What do I do?

Tommy [00:30:33]:
Oh, um.

Eldar [00:30:35]:
Don't put up with your shit.

Toliy [00:30:37]:
Okay.

Tommy [00:30:37]:
Yes, yes, yes, yes. Well, use me as an example again.

Eldar [00:30:41]:
Yeah, yeah, yes.

Tommy [00:30:43]:
Like. Like, how. Like, how do you give and take in a flexible way? You know, like, today it's like, you don't. You don't. You're not, like, feeling like you want to, you know, like, be chatted up. Cause I'm talkative. Or tomorrow you feel like. Yes.

Tommy [00:31:02]:
You wanna hear, like, the circus that I've been in? What differentiates the two in terms of mindfulness?

Eldar [00:31:10]:
Again, it has to be. Come back to me. I have to be mindful of how I feel in that moment and what I can and cannot give. So within the moment, I probably measure whether or not I wanna get into that and pay attention to the nonsense that you're saying or not. Cause I can actively listen. Or I can passively listen. You know what I'm saying?

Mike [00:31:25]:
Yes.

Eldar [00:31:25]:
Yeah. So depending on what you're saying, if I want to go there today, I'll go there today. If not, I'll probably, you know, like, take a day off. That what you mean?

Tommy [00:31:35]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:31:35]:
So I protect myself based on how I evaluate the situation.

Tommy [00:31:38]:
So you can be passive and mindful?

Eldar [00:31:40]:
100%. Because it's either I have to be mindful of myself or the other person.

Tommy [00:31:44]:
All right.

Eldar [00:31:45]:
You know?

Tommy [00:31:45]:
Okay, so when does mindfulness end? Let's say the passiveness turns into annoyance.

Eldar [00:31:50]:
Does it end or it shouldn't end? Because the overarching value system has to go towards compassion. So if it's not compassion and you lost, you know, I'm saying, and being compassionate.

Mike [00:32:04]:
Yeah, yeah.

Eldar [00:32:05]:
But self preservation, self love also is very important. You know what I mean? So sometimes you can give, sometimes you can't give.

Toliy [00:32:12]:
Can you. Can you drop a scenario that might be like, where you can give some external blame someone?

Eldar [00:32:23]:
That was what you're looking for?

Toliy [00:32:24]:
Yeah. Cuz like, every. Every question trying to stump you with. You're trying to get you to a point where, like, yeah, you know, like, some days just suck, you know, like. Like that.

Eldar [00:32:32]:
I know.

Toliy [00:32:32]:
I know what it is. But you're always like, no. Then you have to, you know.

Eldar [00:32:36]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Toliy [00:32:38]:
That's also, like, I think a value system, like an individual who looks within an individual who looks out.

Eldar [00:32:44]:
Correct.

Toliy [00:32:45]:
Like, I think those are all two completely different value systems, too, I guess.

Eldar [00:32:49]:
Whatever.

Toliy [00:32:49]:
When it comes to, like, how to deal with things and how to deal with, like, not deal, but like, how to navigate life.

Eldar [00:32:56]:
A long time ago, I think I've studied enough what I needed to study in order to empower myself to know that, you know, it's easier to point the finger at yourself than the world, because if you keep pointing the world at the world, you'll never get a change. But if you stop pointing the finger at yourself, you have the ability to change.

Tommy [00:33:13]:
Yeah. And I find that that brings gifts, kind of mindfulness, for me, is what I found. Brings gifts even in, like, the.

Mike [00:33:21]:
It's fake gifts.

Tommy [00:33:22]:
Well, hold on, let me finish. Even in. Even in the mess that I feel like I'm in, sometimes that mindfulness can help, like, guide me. Like, an inner compass, in a way.

Mike [00:33:32]:
Yeah. That's B's. That's self gratification.

Tommy [00:33:35]:
He keeps asking these really tough questions.

Eldar [00:33:37]:
He's challenging how Michael's also ask you the same stuff.

Tommy [00:33:40]:
Um, by taking time to be mindful every day.

Toliy [00:33:44]:
Okay.

Tommy [00:33:44]:
Can you use words without using, like, a thousand bricks or what?

Eldar [00:33:48]:
Well, no, you. A lot of times bring like a.

Toliy [00:33:50]:
Like a dust.

Eldar [00:33:51]:
Yeah. Yeah. You just, you know, so be it. Dust.

Tommy [00:33:55]:
Let's say I'm mindful because I see a piece of dust, and I see that piece of dust is just one little thing that I recognize that nobody does. Yeah. And because I appreciate the beauty. I value the beauty. Being mindful, I thought myself, okay, that's a better.

Toliy [00:34:11]:
Can you say better?

Mike [00:34:15]:
He's walking around with his eyes open.

Toliy [00:34:23]:
Yeah. It's just like a. Like a plot to confuse, but not really say anything.

Tommy [00:34:28]:
No, see, but if you were listening, right, and you heard that I'm talking about a spec of dust, that we have thousands and thousands just, like, right in front of us right now. Let's say we don't see.

Toliy [00:34:39]:
You think that I'm gonna sit here and believe that you have the ability to appreciate a speck of dust when you're trying to go to school and.

Tommy [00:34:46]:
Not sitting here in the dark, Garner.

Toliy [00:34:48]:
Like, a respect from society through education. Yes.

Tommy [00:34:52]:
Because you just compared a speck of dust to world literature or something like that. Or knowledge.

Toliy [00:34:58]:
Yeah, but how can you, like, how can you have that?

Tommy [00:35:00]:
They're like one in the same to me. Like that one speck of does represent what, like, my inner life is help here? I don't know. I think. And my roommate says, I think this is called. I think this is called pan psychicism or something like that. Pan psychic. We're like, things like our conscious.

Toliy [00:35:24]:
Like this.

Tommy [00:35:25]:
This microphone is conscious. Like, this floor is conscious.

Toliy [00:35:28]:
Like.

Mike [00:35:28]:
Yeah, yeah.

Toliy [00:35:29]:
You see?

Tommy [00:35:30]:
Yeah. I mean, so, roughly speaking, yes, I talked about something completely irrelevant and totally out of nowhere, but that little speck of dust is kind of similar. You know, it's like, well, then you have to help.

Eldar [00:35:45]:
Yeah. So then why go to school if you already have that ability? Why don't you expand on it and sit quietly?

Tommy [00:35:51]:
I'm willing to put the power on the back burner. Or actually, as a matter of fact, I'm willing to put the power on the workbench. That's.

Eldar [00:35:58]:
Let's say you're trying to confuse us.

Tommy [00:36:01]:
Like, what if it's. What if I'm not trying to gain power? What if I'm just trying to, like, open it up and see what's up, what it's about.

Eldar [00:36:07]:
We don't have a problem with what you're doing it for, Tom. We don't care. You know, I'm saying you should care.

Tommy [00:36:13]:
I do.

Eldar [00:36:14]:
So, you know, you said, I'm going there for power, and I said, what if I'm not going for their.

Tommy [00:36:18]:
Okay, so here are the two values.

Eldar [00:36:19]:
Or the person inside of you.

Tommy [00:36:20]:
Here are the two values. I'm not trying to trigger anybody. Two values.

Eldar [00:36:23]:
Okay.

Tommy [00:36:24]:
The value.

Toliy [00:36:25]:
That's what you're doing.

Eldar [00:36:26]:
That.

Toliy [00:36:26]:
Your speech. You're trying to say stuff that doesn't make sense, to try to see if somebody could be like, well, okay.

Eldar [00:36:32]:
You're just trying to play hide and seek.

Tommy [00:36:34]:
No, I'm saying I have two values, right? And I think, like, when does one.

Toliy [00:36:40]:
What are the values?

Tommy [00:36:41]:
One drop or change.

Toliy [00:36:42]:
What are the values?

Eldar [00:36:43]:
Yeah, what are the values?

Tommy [00:36:44]:
The value of having power changes when mindfulness cannot overcome outside tension. Like, when mindfulness sort of results in, like.

Eldar [00:36:55]:
So he said, if my mindfulness, my ability to look at the speck of dust is not strong enough to combat society, I have to go get power over society through education and not mindfulness. Did I understand that correctly?

Tommy [00:37:10]:
No, it's kind of reverse. Kind of reverse. Because we were talking.

Toliy [00:37:14]:
We were talking first.

Eldar [00:37:15]:
What was I saying?

Tommy [00:37:17]:
Yeah, it was first. Power is first.

Toliy [00:37:19]:
Okay, so say what you just said in the reverse. I just want to hear how that sounds. Go ahead.

Tommy [00:37:25]:
No.

Eldar [00:37:28]:
Mindful part. I can't say it because it's not what he said. No, it doesn't make sense. There's no. How do I structure those words together?

Toliy [00:37:37]:
You try to say it.

Eldar [00:37:38]:
Can you say it, please? Can you help me out here?

Tommy [00:37:40]:
Yes. Here's the deal.

Eldar [00:37:42]:
You just said mindfulness was that, you know, the ability to look at the speck of dust and have that peace, internal peace.

Tommy [00:37:48]:
Well, I didn't. I did not recognize that power was the reason why, for my suffering, I always thought myself not enough. So I sought power through knowledge, because knowledge is power. The mindfulness changed things because it allowed me to see me for who I truly am, great. And through mindfulness, I can also exercise power, but I not have to give up on the power. That's what I'm saying.

Mike [00:38:15]:
Okay.

Tommy [00:38:17]:
Right.

Toliy [00:38:18]:
I would love an explanation.

Tommy [00:38:19]:
This is very challenging.

Eldar [00:38:20]:
I thought I was explaining correctly.

Toliy [00:38:22]:
I'm still hearing. I'm still hearing nothing.

Mike [00:38:25]:
I think what he's saying is that he wants to learn how to engage power, but not the way he used to engage it before.

Tommy [00:38:30]:
Yes. I want to exercise power through my creativity.

Eldar [00:38:33]:
That's it.

Tommy [00:38:34]:
For my own purpose.

Mike [00:38:36]:
That's what he's saying is that he wants to learn how to make a power of value, but a value for.

Eldar [00:38:40]:
Good, our value for good.

Tommy [00:38:42]:
No, that's what. Hey, that's what it was before.

Eldar [00:38:45]:
No.

Mike [00:38:45]:
Oh, before, yes.

Tommy [00:38:46]:
Now it's power.

Toliy [00:38:47]:
Yeah, there, there's, there, there's just like.

Eldar [00:38:50]:
There'S a very confusion thing. Ball of confusion.

Toliy [00:38:53]:
Yes. It's being thrown around like a. Yeah, it's constantly changing.

Eldar [00:38:57]:
It's warm shape and color.

Toliy [00:38:59]:
Yes. There, there's no, there's no concise, conclusive things that we can discuss right now.

Tommy [00:39:04]:
What? No, I just mentioned the two, right.

Toliy [00:39:06]:
Or no, you feel no.

Eldar [00:39:08]:
Yeah, Tom, I'm a little, I'm having a hard time pinning you.

Tommy [00:39:10]:
The first was sort of like a white, wide, a more wide, broad power, and now the, the second is more of like a more narrow power. So the, the power that my value and power has changed to a more.

Mike [00:39:20]:
So did you say that you want to have power over society now you want to have power over yourself?

Tommy [00:39:25]:
Yes. It's not power over myself. No, not if you're saying in like, just like a fun way, I guess no.

Mike [00:39:31]:
Power of is over itself, meaning that you can be.

Toliy [00:39:34]:
That's.

Mike [00:39:35]:
That you would envision to be.

Tommy [00:39:37]:
I don't, I don't, I wouldn't say it's me being stoic, but, but, uh, let's say, let's just say I.

Eldar [00:39:47]:
Say.

Tommy [00:39:47]:
I have, like, power, I guess, like, just enough power to get me through, you know? I mean, like, um, like, what separates somebody who does their best race from those who get mentally fatigued? Could be power could be just the power of knowing themselves and power of knowing that they got everything done right.

Mike [00:40:07]:
So which one are you now?

Eldar [00:40:08]:
You. You're gonna have to break it down a little bit more simpler terms, Tom, for us, because we myself have a hard time.

Tommy [00:40:15]:
Well, look, this is very nice, having.

Eldar [00:40:18]:
A hard time following as well. So try to break it down in more simple terms.

Toliy [00:40:20]:
Like, the only way we can have a conversation here is if you, if you talk in specific things. If you say, well, before, I was thinking about broader power, and now a narrow power, like we sort of like, like, yeah, there's still nothing that we have, like you have to talk about.

Tommy [00:40:37]:
Let's use a wealth example. Here's a wealth example. Can't you have, you can have millions of dollars, right? Or you can just make, let's say, $30 an hour.

Toliy [00:40:46]:
Okay.

Tommy [00:40:47]:
Millions of dollars talks about probably a long time to work through at $30 an hour. But with $30 an hour, we're talking about a much more reasonable goal which can be attained with the right effort. They're two very big, different things. Consider me before as the $100 million guy to now more like the $2025 guy.

Eldar [00:41:10]:
How can we do that $25 now?

Tommy [00:41:12]:
Because I just told you, that's what. In terms of power, I'm not seeking the $100 million. I'm seeking the more reasonable, reasonable potential.

Mike [00:41:23]:
How is power associated with 100 million or 30 an hour?

Tommy [00:41:26]:
No, it's not about the money.

Eldar [00:41:27]:
See, that's where he's saying that he used to be the person of $100 million person. That's how you used to think about power and who he wants to be. Now he's thinking more reasonable by saying that I'm the 30. $30 guy. Am I understanding that correctly?

Tommy [00:41:42]:
You're not to say it again, because I. It is. It is.

Eldar [00:41:46]:
You just give me.

Toliy [00:41:48]:
And that was the most confusing.

Tommy [00:41:51]:
Well, he wasn't. He wasn't directing his comment towards me. He was speaking it outwardly like he was saying it to Mike. He was saying it to Mike. And you were latched onto his back.

Mike [00:42:03]:
Tom, you might have to.

Tommy [00:42:05]:
I want to say yes if it wasn't a trick. Shit. That you were just trying to pull on me like an intellectual fast one.

Toliy [00:42:16]:
Things that don't make sense for 30 minutes straight, and you just set a very basic example and you're trying to hold intellectual heist. Holy shit.

Mike [00:42:26]:
Wow. She keeps you ground.

Tommy [00:42:29]:
Well, hold on. Can we just back.

Eldar [00:42:30]:
True.

Tommy [00:42:31]:
Like, can we just rewind for a second? Was he not saying that? It's like. Like this whole mindfulness thing is impossible. Like, he can't. It doesn't work. How do you do it?

Eldar [00:42:39]:
It's not that it doesn't work. He's saying he just doesn't like the form of it that is being peddled out there in the society, in the world. Right. Because it's. What's happening is a lot of times, people putting band aids with this. Mindfulness. Mindfulness, mindfulness, mindfulness. Right.

Eldar [00:42:51]:
But when they come out into the real world again, they're faced with their.

Toliy [00:42:55]:
Actual value system, which is not mindful.

Eldar [00:42:57]:
Which is not mindful at all. Right? So they didn't take the value system that the yoga teacher, the instructor, was giving them in that particular class and took it with them and lived with it for years on. Right. They took it for that moment when they came out of the class and said, namaste to each other, but as soon as they go into the parking lot, they're giving each other the bird, like Mike says. Right. That is not mindful. That's not practicing mindfulness.

Mike [00:43:20]:
Okay.

Eldar [00:43:21]:
Okay. That's why totally is against that kind of stuff. And I. Me, too.

Toliy [00:43:25]:
Because it also plays a trick on you.

Eldar [00:43:28]:
Correct.

Toliy [00:43:29]:
Particular type of marvin.

Eldar [00:43:32]:
Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Just like, you sitting there looking at the speck of dust, and you're saying that you're mindful. Right. But then you going out into the world and you do all the atrocities that you do do to the world.

Tommy [00:43:45]:
Correct. See, that's the point of the speck of dusty. It's meaningless, and it's a small thing that has absolutely no value.

Toliy [00:43:50]:
Yeah, but you have. There's no chance that you have an ability to appreciate that.

Tommy [00:43:55]:
I do in.

Toliy [00:43:56]:
There's no chance in the moment because.

Tommy [00:43:58]:
That little speck of dust required a lot more things. It required. It required.

Toliy [00:44:03]:
No.

Tommy [00:44:03]:
Yes, it requires.

Toliy [00:44:04]:
And it requires a lot less light that this is any required light.

Tommy [00:44:08]:
And. But it required to actually exist for me to see it.

Toliy [00:44:12]:
Yeah, but there's no way me to.

Tommy [00:44:13]:
Be the only person to see it.

Toliy [00:44:14]:
But there's no way, based on the things that you're saying, that you are, as individual, have the capabilities to appreciate it.

Eldar [00:44:19]:
Whoa.

Tommy [00:44:21]:
Are you saying because you've understood this or you're saying it because this is your argument that you want to present my observation?

Toliy [00:44:28]:
I don't have the ability to appreciate speck a dust on.

Tommy [00:44:31]:
Well, how do you know? Have you seen inspector dust?

Toliy [00:44:33]:
I do not have single out of.

Tommy [00:44:35]:
My chair single speck of dust.

Toliy [00:44:36]:
There's a lot of.

Eldar [00:44:37]:
He might be taught on how to appreciate it, maybe.

Toliy [00:44:39]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:44:40]:
For the most.

Toliy [00:44:40]:
Not have the capability to do that, Tom.

Eldar [00:44:42]:
Yeah, I do not.

Toliy [00:44:43]:
And based on the things that you're telling me, then there's no way that you are.

Tommy [00:44:47]:
You say that. You do not say. How can you say that? You do not.

Toliy [00:44:52]:
Well, because I don't.

Tommy [00:44:54]:
You're saying that shit right now. Saying that your capacity right now preciate.

Toliy [00:45:00]:
No, no.

Tommy [00:45:00]:
Does not exist.

Toliy [00:45:01]:
No, no. I said that right now, don't have the capabilities to appreciate a speck of dust like.

Tommy [00:45:10]:
Okay, so do you have the capability to say to appreciate a cheeseburger, like, right now?

Eldar [00:45:17]:
It's already. That's installed like.

Tommy [00:45:19]:
Like Archie's whiskers. Archie's whiskers. That's close to spike of dust. Archie's whiskers is. They're just whiskers.

Toliy [00:45:25]:
Do I have the ability to appreciate those things?

Eldar [00:45:28]:
Yeah.

Tommy [00:45:28]:
Or like, a birthmark or something?

Toliy [00:45:29]:
No.

Tommy [00:45:30]:
Or you don't have the ability, like, if you had a partner birthmark.

Toliy [00:45:34]:
That's B's. No, that's bullshit.

Tommy [00:45:37]:
Why not?

Mike [00:45:39]:
Because Mickey Manno is not going to pay rent. That birthmark is not going to change your life.

Tommy [00:45:45]:
I mean, Archie, he goes and sniffs flowers. Do they serve him any purpose? Does he have the ability to appreciate them? What do you think?

Mike [00:45:50]:
If you go to the museum on Sunday, on church on Sundays, and really appreciate what God says, and then Monday.

Eldar [00:45:57]:
You'Re talking about the wife.

Toliy [00:45:59]:
They're talking about trying to go to school to get power over individuals and get respect from society at the same time. While saying that you can sit there and appreciate a speck of dust.

Tommy [00:46:08]:
Well, I mean, would you say. Would you say appreciation for nature results in some form of personal power?

Eldar [00:46:14]:
I mean, people have moments of, like. I think those are small moments of values. I don't think it's an actual value system. Right. That's something that he values consistently. Right. Otherwise, he'd be probably meditating for a lot longer.

Toliy [00:46:26]:
Yeah, but you can't, like, have your bases go off of, this is who you are.

Eldar [00:46:31]:
Well, no, I think, yeah, he might be, you know. Yeah. He might be stretching it a little bit, but when we always do.

Toliy [00:46:36]:
That's what I'm saying. Yeah. The. The way that, like, to be an individual that could appreciate, I don't know, let's say, like, if you want to call him, like, speck of dust is, like, even, like, I don't even know, past where I view basic. Right. Basic things. I don't know. Like, if we talk about, like.

Toliy [00:46:51]:
Yeah, animals or nature or peace or quiet or, like, you know, stuff like that. I think that that's an extreme, extremely advanced skill.

Eldar [00:46:59]:
Well, then again, now, yeah. We identify.

Toliy [00:47:01]:
We're talking about a speck of dos of me, which is like. Like, I don't know, way past that, even. Right.

Eldar [00:47:07]:
Yeah.

Toliy [00:47:07]:
And then we're talking about things that are like respect from society, power, like money, stuff like that, which are then way, way behind all those things.

Eldar [00:47:18]:
Well, there you go. You just discovered Tom's disparity and his problem.

Toliy [00:47:23]:
Yeah. I mean. I mean, I agree with that. Yeah.

Eldar [00:47:25]:
Right. You could see that there's very two opposite spectrums of value systems. Right. Like you said.

Toliy [00:47:32]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:47:32]:
And he's caught in between.

Toliy [00:47:34]:
Well, no, it's not caught in between.

Eldar [00:47:36]:
So where is he? Oh, he's clearly showing.

Toliy [00:47:39]:
Yeah. He's clearly showing where he's going. No, where his values. I'm also saying that I do not have the ability to appreciate a speck of dust time. I do nothing.

Eldar [00:47:47]:
Maybe one day. Maybe one day he will.

Toliy [00:47:48]:
I don't think anyone in this room can be like they're a dust appreciator, you guys. I'm elder.

Eldar [00:47:56]:
I'm not. I've not come out to be a.

Tommy [00:47:57]:
Do you ask me about when that happened?

Toliy [00:48:01]:
You know.

Tommy [00:48:02]:
Couldn't tell you when it was. Couldn't tell you what I was really doing. I don't know what happened, but I remember it.

Toliy [00:48:08]:
So what does that mistake.

Eldar [00:48:09]:
I just remember I looked at a.

Tommy [00:48:13]:
Nice sunscreen, seeing that speck of dust fall down and feeling like the world around me was just not really like, doing much anymore, you know?

Eldar [00:48:21]:
That's art.

Tommy [00:48:22]:
I mean, yeah, it. Maybe it is, but can art just like, exist in the mind?

Eldar [00:48:28]:
That's like. I don't know if that's a mirror of showing that you're actually a very mindful person.

Tommy [00:48:33]:
No, but to me, in that moment, it was a mirror. Because for 1 second. For 1 second of my day, I realized that I was able to escape into that little speck of dust and then go back to my normal life or whatever.

Toliy [00:48:45]:
I think it would be better if you can highlight like, your day as a whole rather than the escape that you had for 10 seconds.

Tommy [00:48:52]:
I didn't plan for that escape. That's the thing. It just happened.

Eldar [00:48:55]:
Well, then that just shows that, you know. That just shows that you know. It's very involuntary, Tom. So I think mindful. I think it's an active and not enough.

Tommy [00:49:02]:
Well, it wasn't involuntary. That 1 second you just said.

Toliy [00:49:05]:
You just said that.

Tommy [00:49:06]:
That 1 second I followed that speck of dust down.

Eldar [00:49:09]:
But Tom, you just said that it just happened.

Tommy [00:49:12]:
No, it happened that the dust hit the light at that very moment and I followed it. You know, like watching a shooting star. It's there 1 second and gone the next.

Eldar [00:49:21]:
Yeah, but you didn't choose to have it. You didn't create it. You weren't anticipating it. Right. Like we can anticipate a sunset.

Tommy [00:49:27]:
Like it's just by luck. Yeah, by luck.

Eldar [00:49:29]:
Right.

Tommy [00:49:30]:
Like, maybe seeing a sunset is also my luck.

Eldar [00:49:32]:
Yeah. I'll be careful to say that you're mindful just because you were able to catch that moment.

Tommy [00:49:36]:
I. I know. I use it as moments are very. Because even 1 second can result in, like, a mindful thought.

Toliy [00:49:42]:
Maybe it was a mind about that. Yeah, but like where do, where does that. How does that change your life?

Eldar [00:49:47]:
And how does that, again, that again shows us what that just again, leads us astray and shows us that we somehow value this.

Toliy [00:49:54]:
Yes, it could. It confuses you as I think that you are this individual when you are absolutely not.

Eldar [00:50:00]:
Yeah. Now if he said, hey, guys, for the last five years, actually every day at 11:00 I realized that the way the light hits is my room. And I've been sitting there at 11:00 for the last five minutes. And this is what I appreciate. And hear the photos of it and all this other stuff, then we can say, okay, cool, he's a dust. Appreciate it. Yeah. You know what I mean? Clearly, you know, and then you can have a mindful moment within that five minute frame from eleven to 1105.

Eldar [00:50:25]:
You know what I mean? Considering you got the right light and stuff. Right. You know, all the pieces came together though.

Tommy [00:50:31]:
You know, that's exactly what happened except for 2 seconds.

Eldar [00:50:34]:
Well, yeah. I'm glad you at least experienced that. That's what's out there in my house.

Tommy [00:50:37]:
I really do appreciate your mindfulness.

Toliy [00:50:41]:
In my house.

Mike [00:50:42]:
There.

Toliy [00:50:43]:
There's lots of times where there's a areas where there's a bunch of ladybugs. I've had a ladybug land on me.

Eldar [00:50:50]:
Mm hmm.

Toliy [00:50:51]:
It felt nice the first time. I was like, oh, nice. You know, little late. Ladybug.

Eldar [00:50:55]:
Yeah.

Toliy [00:50:56]:
But like, like it, like, I can't go around and tell you that I'm an appreciator for this when, like, the majority of life is like, I'm like, I'm a piece of shit most of the time.

Eldar [00:51:07]:
Yeah.

Toliy [00:51:08]:
Wow.

Eldar [00:51:08]:
Yeah.

Tommy [00:51:09]:
He finally broke out the can of worms, bro. Finally.

Toliy [00:51:13]:
Yeah. So I'm not gonna sit here.

Eldar [00:51:15]:
Yeah.

Toliy [00:51:15]:
And be like Tom and tell you.

Eldar [00:51:17]:
That I'm a ladybug.

Toliy [00:51:18]:
I'm a ladybug appreciator advocate. Right. But then, like, on the back end, I'm seeking power through education.

Eldar [00:51:25]:
Yeah. Or revenge. Revenge tool.

Toliy [00:51:28]:
Yeah. Yeah. I think it takes a next level individual to like, I don't know, appreciate those kinds of things consistently. Like, actually extract things from them and be able to.

Eldar [00:51:39]:
Yeah.

Toliy [00:51:39]:
Replicate that.

Tommy [00:51:41]:
Was it, uh, was it Heracleitus who said, you don't step in the same river twice?

Eldar [00:51:45]:
That's right.

Tommy [00:51:46]:
So what if. What if I told you mindfulness is kind of within that realm?

Eldar [00:51:51]:
Why? You can just say, oh, you're stepping in the river. He's gonna challenge you and say, okay, let's sit down and break down.

Tommy [00:51:55]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:51:56]:
What does it mean, to actually be mindful. You can't just keep bringing the fucking quotes of some fucking hurricane saying that you can't step. Mindfulness is like stepping into the river twice, you know? Like, you just can't do that time. Yeah.

Tommy [00:52:06]:
I mean, we started with doors, and now we're talking about rivers. It's a little weird. Maybe you're riding a door down a river. Okay, so, like, let's say mindfulness is riding a door down the river.

Toliy [00:52:17]:
Okay.

Eldar [00:52:18]:
And then what, Tom?

Toliy [00:52:19]:
And then. All right.

Mike [00:52:20]:
Like, you guys might have to just agree with Tom on this stream.

Tommy [00:52:24]:
Like. Like, where you step on and where you step on.

Toliy [00:52:27]:
Yeah. When it comes to talking about these top topics, like, it's not. It's not a, like, power of creativity here that wins here. Like, there's gonna be a.

Tommy [00:52:38]:
What is.

Toliy [00:52:38]:
Yeah, hold on.

Tommy [00:52:39]:
What is power of creativity? Explain that to me. What is the power of creativity?

Toliy [00:52:42]:
It's what you're trying to flex on us right now.

Eldar [00:52:44]:
No, I think much greater, bro.

Tommy [00:52:47]:
It's way greater than that.

Toliy [00:52:48]:
Yeah. You're trying to say things above that cannot be talked about.

Tommy [00:52:54]:
When was the last time you did something with your hands to create something?

Mike [00:52:57]:
Last night.

Eldar [00:52:58]:
Oh, my garden, bro. That's disgusting. Yeah, make that the title. You know, Tom's question. Mike's answer.

Toliy [00:53:11]:
Yeah. What's it called? Did you know farontitis or no?

Eldar [00:53:18]:
Ferrite.

Toliy [00:53:18]:
Yeah. Do you remember what he said, tom or no?

Mike [00:53:22]:
Yeah, the nutty professor.

Tommy [00:53:25]:
Yeah.

Toliy [00:53:27]:
Yeah. Life is like a bag of worms.

Tommy [00:53:31]:
All right, all right. Hold on, hold on.

Toliy [00:53:32]:
No. What about Nora Cooper? Right? And what you said about how, like, condition is creativity.

Tommy [00:53:42]:
Condition?

Toliy [00:53:42]:
Yeah. Or Seth Jones, the guy who said that.

Eldar [00:53:47]:
Here we go.

Tommy [00:53:49]:
Let's hear it. Let's hear it. Come on, Mandy. I really. Condition is created. What the hell did he just boycott?

Eldar [00:53:58]:
You tuned your mind into the fact that when people make quotes about people names that you don't know, they all suddenly feel credible to you.

Toliy [00:54:06]:
No, I guarantee you he's never heard of Matilda Dart.

Eldar [00:54:11]:
Yeah. Oh, no, that one I already.

Toliy [00:54:13]:
Yeah, you want to share that one?

Eldar [00:54:16]:
Yeah. That which listens never hears.

Toliy [00:54:27]:
Or Connor Segway, who threw a potato in the air and never landed.

Eldar [00:54:34]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:54:38]:
All right.

Eldar [00:54:38]:
Talk the gigas off.

Tommy [00:54:39]:
So maybe he's like a shadow.

Eldar [00:54:40]:
You could trick somebody else.

Tommy [00:54:42]:
This guy's a shadow artist. He's happier. He's happier denying he's a closet artist. Inner mindfulness. He's happier denying that.

Eldar [00:54:51]:
Yeah.

Tommy [00:54:52]:
Or not talking about it because he's afraid of what kinds of creative forces might start, you know, playing a role in his life.

Eldar [00:55:00]:
Well, that's deep.

Tommy [00:55:01]:
Yeah. Because creativity. Power of creativity. You know, like, that's the thing is.

Eldar [00:55:07]:
Tom, I actually think that when you develop a very good sense of yourself in your head and know how to structure, you can be very creative and bend those things in ways that you really can be creative to anybody and everything. You know what I'm saying? So, yeah.

Tommy [00:55:25]:
So the question for me is, where.

Toliy [00:55:27]:
Do I change requires level of cohesion.

Eldar [00:55:30]:
Yes. Yes, it does. It does require that.

Tommy [00:55:33]:
Okay, what does that mean? Like, what do you mean by cohesion?

Toliy [00:55:35]:
For you, like, for you to actually change something, you would need to have a conversation with yourself.

Eldar [00:55:43]:
No, probably not yourself anymore.

Toliy [00:55:45]:
Yeah. Okay. You have to have. You have to have the ability with individuals.

Tommy [00:55:51]:
Sorry.

Toliy [00:55:52]:
Structure.

Tommy [00:55:52]:
Like, my bad.

Eldar [00:55:54]:
What we took a shot at, d is, like, you know, the way d used to do.

Tommy [00:55:59]:
Yeah.

Toliy [00:55:59]:
I. I think for you to actually change, you would need to have the ability to structure sentences where you can go kind of back and forth with another individual, where they can understand what you're saying and you can understand them.

Eldar [00:56:15]:
Yeah. And then this doesn't mean where you're speaking at somebody and somebody's not giving you feedback back. You kind of have to say, okay, cool. Did you understand what I said just now? And it would say, yes, I do. I get this point. And they have to reiterate to you the point that you said, like, going.

Tommy [00:56:28]:
Into class and saying, hey, look, I know this is the professor.

Eldar [00:56:31]:
Yeah.

Tommy [00:56:32]:
Dress like the professor.

Eldar [00:56:33]:
Yeah.

Tommy [00:56:33]:
But really, I want you all to know that I'm the real professor, but.

Toliy [00:56:36]:
For you to actually do. Do that, I think you'd probably have to tap into mindfulness.

Eldar [00:56:42]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Tommy [00:56:44]:
True. So how do you. How do you convince someone that the real professor is the imposter? Mindfully? He rubbed his beard. Well, that's a gal of a question.

Eldar [00:57:01]:
Yeah, yeah.

Toliy [00:57:02]:
I mean. I mean, like, it's. It's. It's very cliche, but it makes sense, what William Smith said.

Eldar [00:57:07]:
Oh, yeah. Some people like to play hide and seek momentarily.

Toliy [00:57:11]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:57:11]:
Others play hide and seek for a lifetime.

Toliy [00:57:13]:
Yeah. And a cup holds more than just water.

Eldar [00:57:16]:
That's right.

Toliy [00:57:17]:
It's the key to creativity.

Eldar [00:57:18]:
That's right.

Toliy [00:57:19]:
Yeah, Mike.

Tommy [00:57:21]:
Like a pot always has 31 worms.

Mike [00:57:24]:
I'm enjoying this.

Eldar [00:57:26]:
Yeah. I'm glad we got you out of your tired slumber, as William Dent always said.

Mike [00:57:33]:
Yes.

Tommy [00:57:33]:
Look, I'd say the cat's out of the bag.

Eldar [00:57:36]:
I think the gig is up with you.

Tommy [00:57:38]:
He's definitely hiding his inner artist, Tom, with my story. That's an incomplete story. This is like a rough draft.

Eldar [00:57:44]:
You're still writing it. You're still writing it. I'm not sure if it's 2023 is your year, Tom. You know what I mean? I really hope it is. I'm not gonna bet on that.

Toliy [00:57:54]:
Tom.

Eldar [00:57:56]:
Yeah, he's saying you listen, he came. He's saying that he's gonna turn the other leaf. You know what I mean? This is.

Toliy [00:58:00]:
No, yeah, he has turned the other.

Eldar [00:58:03]:
Leaf and this is, this. This journey is gonna be different.

Tommy [00:58:05]:
I have.

Eldar [00:58:05]:
Listen, time will tell. Time always does tell, Tom.

Toliy [00:58:08]:
No, it does not.

Eldar [00:58:09]:
Oh, cuz there's more time. No, I mean, but we can quantify.

Mike [00:58:14]:
Some people for the individual. Yes.

Eldar [00:58:16]:
Doesn't tell now what past that's gonna say. We don't know yet. And you could definitely, you know, always ask for an extension from yourself, obviously.

Tommy [00:58:25]:
Yeah, that works for me.

Eldar [00:58:27]:
That's it. Yeah. Tom, I think you displayed. Thank you. You know what I mean? Not always, do I. When we come up with topics, me and Mike, does it lead to actually have a live example of an individual who actually experiencing the actual thing that we're talking about and give live examples of that? And I think you did a really good job at explaining.

Tommy [00:58:50]:
I can reveal it.

Eldar [00:58:51]:
Yeah, you revealed it. Yeah. You unboxed and you showed us that this is what actually it entails. You need to proceed with caution.

Tommy [00:58:57]:
Savvy stuff. Yeah, absolutely. And I know that. I realize that, because what it leads to is suffering and pain.

Eldar [00:59:04]:
Yeah, you see, he understands it, the disparity. So how do we develop these fucking values then? That sometimes then hold us fucking hostage, how do we develop those values? And a lot of times, right, the values that we've developed, if we start to actually uncover what they are, they're fucking meaningless, bro. They're not even grounded in anything. They don't even have like a umph to them a lot of the time.

Mike [00:59:29]:
A lot of times, our values, they're not, but they don't belong to us. They're societal values that our parents first did to us, then the Internet did to us, then celebrities did to us, and then athletes and all these people did to us.

Eldar [00:59:43]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:59:43]:
So most of our values data actually, not our values. You would have to probably really look at like everything and say, oh, this thing is actually, it belongs to me, this value, because I developed it on my own.

Eldar [00:59:56]:
Wow.

Mike [00:59:57]:
I practiced it on my own and I'm stuck in it.

Eldar [01:00:00]:
So, so if the value, which is then if you found the value that is value to you and he carries the actual truth.

Mike [01:00:07]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:00:08]:
Right. Let's just say that.

Mike [01:00:09]:
Yeah, I.

Tommy [01:00:09]:
That.

Mike [01:00:10]:
Right.

Eldar [01:00:10]:
Then would you say that that which you value makes you an individual?

Mike [01:00:15]:
Yes. That's the only thing that contributes to your individuality. Yeah.

Eldar [01:00:19]:
Wow.

Tommy [01:00:20]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:00:21]:
Otherwise we all walk around, it's safe.

Eldar [01:00:24]:
Holy shit. We haven't had a t shirt in a while. Otherwise we're just walking around with as.

Mike [01:00:33]:
A whole bunch of copies of each other.

Eldar [01:00:35]:
As a whole bunch of copies of each other. Holy shit, Mike.

Tommy [01:00:40]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:00:40]:
That's fucking crazy.

Toliy [01:00:42]:
So we said that, Mike, so, yeah.

Mike [01:00:45]:
It was that guy William H. So handy Pentagraph, I guess.

Tommy [01:00:49]:
Look, I'm saying this is how my values are developed, Tom.

Eldar [01:00:52]:
Hold on 1 second.

Tommy [01:00:53]:
Not drop or change.

Toliy [01:00:54]:
Yeah, I actually like his other quote. He was the one that said that paper is as thin as the ice and melts.

Tommy [01:01:01]:
Wow, that is. That's freaking awesome.

Mike [01:01:04]:
That's profound.

Tommy [01:01:06]:
Yeah, yeah.

Eldar [01:01:06]:
We should.

Toliy [01:01:07]:
How do you come up with that? Papers.

Tommy [01:01:09]:
We should get you a little painter.

Toliy [01:01:10]:
Nice and melts.

Tommy [01:01:11]:
We should get him a little french painter hat.

Eldar [01:01:12]:
No.

Tommy [01:01:13]:
Hey, Mikey. With a t shirt or a little typewriter.

Eldar [01:01:22]:
Yeah.

Toliy [01:01:23]:
I mean.

Tommy [01:01:24]:
Oh, little desk piano.

Mike [01:01:29]:
That was actually recorded.

Eldar [01:01:31]:
Yeah.

Toliy [01:01:31]:
What that, the William H. Quote. That paper's as thin as that ice and melts.

Eldar [01:01:36]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:01:37]:
Wow.

Toliy [01:01:41]:
Yeah, yeah. But he, he first got called out for trying to tell people.

Eldar [01:01:47]:
Yeah.

Toliy [01:01:48]:
That a bucket is only a circular as a square. It fits into it.

Eldar [01:01:53]:
Tom, is that creativity or.

Tommy [01:01:54]:
No, absolutely.

Eldar [01:01:57]:
Yeah.

Tommy [01:01:58]:
Yeah, I think so. Yeah, it's definitely.

Eldar [01:02:02]:
Wow.

Toliy [01:02:04]:
Mike. Mike likes his formula.

Mike [01:02:08]:
This is like Wajowski form.

Eldar [01:02:13]:
Listen, nft this bitch.

Mike [01:02:14]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:02:15]:
You have talent.

Toliy [01:02:17]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:02:18]:
I mean, there's plenty of people willing to pay for it.

Mike [01:02:21]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:02:22]:
Hi.

Mike [01:02:22]:
Hi.

Tommy [01:02:23]:
Hi, I'm Tom.

Eldar [01:02:24]:
Hi, I'm Tom.

Toliy [01:02:25]:
No, what he's saying hold water or no.

Tommy [01:02:30]:
See, when it comes to creative problems, I don't know if you can comprehend the answer.

Eldar [01:02:34]:
You'd be surprised. I'm not sure you'd be surprised.

Tommy [01:02:36]:
I'll tell you, I am coming around to this idea that's developing that these values that I have concerning me as a creative.

Mike [01:02:43]:
Yeah. I would have to discuss helping get.

Tommy [01:02:46]:
Somewhere, not just stay stuck and going through things.

Mike [01:02:49]:
Yeah. How do we have to think about how our values are created.

Eldar [01:02:53]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:02:54]:
Right.

Eldar [01:02:55]:
Were they just like you said, right. Are passed on to us?

Mike [01:02:57]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:02:58]:
Somebody just sold. Hey, you should like this type of clothes, this types of shoes, this type of brand. Yeah.

Mike [01:03:05]:
I guess in part of making something a value of yours. And I guess values can be different. Doesn't have to be like searching for love or something. It could be. I value, I don't know, playing a certain sport, right? Can I be a value or. No, no.

Eldar [01:03:20]:
I think. I think values, I think have to be, again, honesty, right? I value honesty.

Mike [01:03:26]:
I value honesty.

Eldar [01:03:27]:
A value to be honest. Therefore my actions will speak, you know, my honesty, I will be honest.

Mike [01:03:33]:
So why I'm honest?

Eldar [01:03:34]:
Because I value it. Why do I value it? Because, you know, you have your reasons as to why you value honesty. Because you want others to be honest with you. Right? Because it's the right thing to do. Right. But it's to be truthful, right? Live life, an integral life with integrity.

Mike [01:03:51]:
Yeah. So, so, yeah, it can be something that you. I mean, I guess it can be something like that, like a sport or.

Eldar [01:04:00]:
Well, you can. Again, it can, right.

Mike [01:04:03]:
You can apply values in that sport.

Eldar [01:04:05]:
I value the things like you can value things, right?

Mike [01:04:09]:
Yeah, right. You could, of course, course. But.

Eldar [01:04:11]:
But what if that value actually that thing has.

Mike [01:04:14]:
Right. That's the way you want to live, correct?

Eldar [01:04:16]:
Because it becomes where the thing now owns you versus you owning the thing.

Mike [01:04:22]:
Well, yeah, right. That's. Because that, well, I think that's what happens when you don't learn a value, actually, things that have value start to value things and then you get clipped.

Eldar [01:04:32]:
There you go.

Mike [01:04:34]:
That's.

Eldar [01:04:34]:
There you go.

Mike [01:04:35]:
That's because learning to value things is not a promoted probably. I mean, learning to value. I don't know what this call to value values, I guess virtuous things.

Eldar [01:04:48]:
Well, to understand what values are, right? Because we can clearly see that, hey, to value integrity and honesty is to have a particular character which shapes you as an individual, as a person, to value this. This watch does what to you?

Toliy [01:05:03]:
Yes. Yeah, I think.

Eldar [01:05:04]:
How does that.

Toliy [01:05:05]:
The issue, I think what people have with things like this is that. Not that it's confusing in nature, but I think that like these more external things and these more like, let's say materialistic things, they're.

Eldar [01:05:25]:
Mike's fucking playing the trumpet all day, jumbo.

Toliy [01:05:29]:
What's that giant guitar called, Tom? That giant violin.

Mike [01:05:34]:
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Toliy [01:05:39]:
No, I was lost in his ass. I think that, like, what you're talking about is, I think for a lot of people, extremely confusing some subject, and.

Eldar [01:05:53]:
Because they're not accustomed to it, they're not, they didn't grow up on it, they didn't talk about it.

Toliy [01:05:56]:
And because off the bat, it's extremely confusing. It doesn't sound like something that something that someone would want to get into. Right?

Eldar [01:06:05]:
Yeah, but as soon as you. But it's. But, but philosophy bug is a thing, you know what I mean? As soon as you do, and as soon as it clicks, you're like, wait a second.

Toliy [01:06:12]:
No, I know, but there's something else.

Eldar [01:06:13]:
To the world that I've not seen.

Toliy [01:06:15]:
I think it's hard to penetrate those walls because automatic, foreign, confusing, complex things. There's like a big barrier.

Eldar [01:06:26]:
No, sure. And I know I agree with you, but I'm not going to disagree with you. The job of us, I think of us not only understand the things that we're talking about, but break him down in a simple way. And Tom didn't help us, obviously, with bringing in a lot of confusion here. Right. I can see how somebody can be put off, but some of the things.

Tommy [01:06:41]:
That I'm always trying to build something new, you know, I guess, like, I'm always trying to create the new idea. So maybe I, this actually gave me a little, you know, revelation here, which is what? I'm living my life confused, sort of. No base maybe confused, but also. Yes, let's say yes. Confused. And something sort of through. Yeah. Quarter mile at a time, right?

Eldar [01:07:05]:
Oh, good one.

Tommy [01:07:07]:
Okay, good. But by the last quarter mile, then, you know what I mean? Mm hmm. Like Tom with a better long term plan and a solid class.

Eldar [01:07:19]:
Tom, just say it how you feel. Like you don't have to, like, do that thing. You don't have to go into a therassist dictionary right now to pick the right combination of something that makes sense to us.

Tommy [01:07:29]:
Yeah, okay. Yeah, yeah.

Eldar [01:07:30]:
What had just happened to you, Tom? You just said that something just happened to you. You just, you realize something. What was that?

Tommy [01:07:35]:
Trying to, like.

Eldar [01:07:37]:
I'm trying to, like, code it. You don't have to code it here. Don't encode it into anything. I want to try to be a blockchain format.

Tommy [01:07:44]:
That's it. I'm just trying to be an artist. That's it. I'm trying to be a writer. I'm trying to be somebody who creates somebody who uses the knowledge for that purpose, knowing that there's a lot of uncertainty that it could be come anything.

Eldar [01:07:56]:
And before this conversation, you didn't think that it is more clear to you now that you want to be an artist?

Tommy [01:08:03]:
I sort of. No, haven't been thinking it, really?

Eldar [01:08:07]:
Okay.

Tommy [01:08:08]:
Yes and no. Yes and no. Because before I wasn't. Before I was, like, constantly on this roller coaster, emotionally, feeling depressed, sometimes finding some knowledge or some reason to like, pick myself back up, working for a short stretch, like, being really, like, you know, kind of, you know, neurotic sometimes being kind of, like, in learning mode for a little while, and then you.

Eldar [01:08:32]:
Still flipping back and forth against the idea of actually being art and not an artist.

Tommy [01:08:40]:
I'm against that idea. Sort of. Yes, absolutely. Yeah.

Eldar [01:08:44]:
You don't want to be a, first.

Tommy [01:08:46]:
Of all, I know a form of art. I know that.

Mike [01:08:49]:
I'm a creative.

Toliy [01:08:50]:
All this.

Eldar [01:08:50]:
You have all the ingredients to just be art.

Tommy [01:08:53]:
I. Yes. I know this because art is confusing.

Toliy [01:08:57]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:08:57]:
Tom fits that description or not.

Toliy [01:09:00]:
Yeah. I mean, 100% bar does, unique.

Tommy [01:09:02]:
But now I also know that I don't. I I don't have to be a selfish human being. I don't have to be somebody who's greedy for power.

Mike [01:09:11]:
You actually have to become a selfish human being.

Tommy [01:09:13]:
I know that. Well, I don't know if you have to become a selfish, and that's maybe in a soft way. Some people say you have to be a little, people say sometimes you have to be a little selfish when it comes to caring yourself for yourself at times when you're really in need.

Mike [01:09:28]:
Yeah.

Toliy [01:09:28]:
I mean, that's what people say. What's his name? Um, yeah, Johnny Frank. Oh, Mike, what's that guy that you.

Tommy [01:09:37]:
Were just reading about, Captain Sumner?

Mike [01:09:40]:
Slipped my mind.

Toliy [01:09:42]:
What. What's that guy's name? Oh, Tom McCarthy. Right.

Eldar [01:09:47]:
Yeah.

Toliy [01:09:47]:
He's a guy who said that that selfishness starts with the box that opens itself.

Tommy [01:09:53]:
Okay. Wasn't that furry McFosnuts? Or am I wrong? Or is it John J. Dingleberry?

Eldar [01:10:05]:
Why are they trying to bury you, man?

Toliy [01:10:10]:
No, but it really does. Selfishness is the box that closes itself. Yeah, actually, I think selfishness is the.

Tommy [01:10:19]:
Mouth that speaks but never opens.

Eldar [01:10:20]:
Yeah. Yes.

Mike [01:10:21]:
Speaking about selfishness, actually, I think we might have it all wrong about selfishness. I think you actually should be selfish.

Eldar [01:10:28]:
Mm hmm. Well, you have to expand, Mike.

Mike [01:10:30]:
You can't talk.

Eldar [01:10:31]:
You can't talk, Tom.

Mike [01:10:32]:
Yeah, no.

Toliy [01:10:33]:
Or we could just.

Eldar [01:10:35]:
Yes, you've accomplished.

Toliy [01:10:37]:
We are very familiar with that.

Mike [01:10:40]:
I'm trying to, if you try and.

Eldar [01:10:41]:
Just hit Tom, then you're good there.

Mike [01:10:42]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:10:43]:
If you want to hit somebody else, you might have to explain just a little bit.

Mike [01:10:46]:
Yeah, sure. I think, like, oh, my God.

Toliy [01:10:49]:
Holy shit.

Eldar [01:10:50]:
What? If you want to hit Tom, stop right there.

Toliy [01:10:55]:
You don't want to hit others. You have to explain yourself.

Mike [01:10:58]:
Yeah, yeah.

Eldar [01:10:59]:
The fuck you think I was saying?

Toliy [01:11:01]:
Holy fuck.

Eldar [01:11:03]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:11:04]:
I think if you. I think even though selfishness has the connotation, right. That it's wrong.

Eldar [01:11:10]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:11:11]:
But part of values and making them your own is you have to be, in a way, selfish and you have to make those values your own. A lot of times we go and we look at the external like, oh, we have to be nice to people, we have to be kind to people, have to be respectful, honest, and that's like, so quote unquote selfless. Right. Like they say. But the opposite would be selfish. So when you have to be actually honest to yourself, truthful to yourself, kind to yourself, that would be considered selfish. Right. When you're doing towards yourself.

Mike [01:11:42]:
So I'm just trying to put, you know what.

Eldar [01:11:44]:
Yeah, you are trying to, but I'm not sure if it's working because, yeah, to develop good values is to have not selfishness, but more self respect towards yourself. I think selfishness is referred to when you actually are at expense of others, hurting others, selfishness to gain to gain yourself in that regard.

Mike [01:12:05]:
Yeah, well, I guess it's, yeah, definitely not to hurt others, but yeah, in a way, break free of those chains that, you know, the things are putting the society or whatever is putting towards you.

Eldar [01:12:16]:
No, for sure. And I think the equation always stands as that. I think you have to fill your own cup.

Mike [01:12:21]:
1St.

Eldar [01:12:21]:
1St yeah, right. And it doesn't have to be in a selfish way, especially because if you fill in your cup again, right. With values that are rooted in truth. Right. Then you're benefiting the society.

Mike [01:12:34]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:12:34]:
As well. Right. So that's another thing that buddhist, I think we give you pass, right?

Mike [01:12:38]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:12:38]:
Hey, yeah, work on yourself. Yeah, no problem. You're not being selfish.

Mike [01:12:42]:
Work on yourself.

Eldar [01:12:43]:
Because sooner or later that work on yourself will go towards the society, towards the greater good, of course. And that's definitely a good thing.

Mike [01:12:50]:
I agree. Yeah.

Tommy [01:12:51]:
But definitely the lack of or not acknowledging or figuring out or choosing maybe those values, it's possible to choose. I think so.

Mike [01:12:59]:
I think that's what we're trying to get to. How do you choose your values?

Eldar [01:13:01]:
Well, there you go. That's what we're trying to figure out.

Mike [01:13:03]:
Thank you for getting us back on that trail.

Eldar [01:13:05]:
Thank you. And, you know, because we found out that some some value systems, Tom, actually is holding us down. You know, a lot of times we'll go in our life to say, I want to do this. This is what I value. This is why I want to do this. But why would we get to it?

Mike [01:13:18]:
Why would somebody want to change their values? Or how would somebody come about and say, oh, you know what I want to change my value.

Eldar [01:13:24]:
See, the problem is, I'm not sure if you have to change your values right away. I think you have to examine the values you do have, so.

Mike [01:13:30]:
And how would somebody come to that to say, I want to examine my values?

Eldar [01:13:34]:
Well, if you keep hitting the same wall, like you said, you were hitting the same wall and you were getting the result that you were not happy with your happiness, right? Like, hey, what the fuck? I'm sad.

Mike [01:13:44]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:13:44]:
I'm not happy.

Mike [01:13:45]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:13:45]:
What's happening here? Why am I getting this result? And that's gonna give you. And I think that's gonna give you the trail that you need of crumbs to find what's actually going on. And you. You soon, I think, discover that you might be valuing the wrong stuff. So that girl that cries and says, oh, he treated me like shit. You know, what the hell? I deserve better. You know? I deserve better, right. Somehow.

Eldar [01:14:10]:
Right. And then we evaluate her life and her behavior. Let's just say, right, we quickly find out that she doesn't have any self respect and the way she behaved and the way she carried herself without any boundaries, without any respect and stuff like that, right. She was treated in accordance to that particular thing. You know what I mean? So. But she's under the impression and everybody else around her, let's just say the girls, you know, you independent woman, you deserve better. And all this other stuff, not actually evaluating what they're saying and saying. Okay, cool.

Eldar [01:14:40]:
Why did this happen to you? Let's discuss some of the value systems that you have on things where this person felt okay to disrespect you by cheating on you, by lying to you or maybe even hitting you. Right.

Mike [01:14:53]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:14:53]:
Like, what's actually happening?

Toliy [01:14:54]:
Yeah. Yeah. Because I feel like in, like, I agree with what. What you're saying. And when you hear in general, you know, like, friends of yours or. Yeah, yeah, both. Like, guys, girls, like whoever, right. Saying this, right.

Toliy [01:15:09]:
When they tell the story, like, the. The picture they're trying to give you is that it's 02:00 p.m. sun is shining bright, right. People everywhere. Safe neighborhood, no crime.

Eldar [01:15:26]:
Yeah.

Toliy [01:15:27]:
And you're just walking back from the store with a fresh loaf of bread.

Eldar [01:15:32]:
Yeah. The birds are chirping.

Toliy [01:15:33]:
The birds are chirping. Kids are like, you know, laughing, playing.

Eldar [01:15:38]:
Laughing, and a huge missile, and someone.

Toliy [01:15:42]:
Comes up and shoots you in the forehead, point blanken.

Eldar [01:15:44]:
Yeah. Yeah.

Toliy [01:15:47]:
In a town that's never experienced a single theft.

Eldar [01:15:49]:
That's right.

Mike [01:15:51]:
For a million years.

Eldar [01:15:52]:
Yeah. Can you continue. So the people who understand this can be okay, but people that didn't can.

Tommy [01:15:59]:
Follow through such a time.

Toliy [01:16:02]:
Yeah. So when you hear these stories, it just seems like this is a, like. Like they're not. Yeah. They're not, like, coming into, like, like, coming into the scenario, trying to. Trying to say, like, hey, can we figure out why this happened to me? Like, they're already telling you that this, like, hyenas crime was, like, committed against you, assuming that a bunch of things happen and you just did everything right.

Eldar [01:16:30]:
Correct.

Toliy [01:16:31]:
And they paint. They're trying to paint this picture of that. Like, there. There's just, like, massive injustice happening to them.

Eldar [01:16:38]:
Correct.

Toliy [01:16:39]:
While they're, like a fraud, a frolicking like a bunny money, looking for a.

Eldar [01:16:44]:
Camera in the field. Yeah, exactly. So, you know, a lot of times we misguide one another. Right. And don't actually ask the questions that we're asking. For example, Tom, he has to say, like, no time. We don't believe you. We don't believe you based on what you're saying and what's happening to you.

Eldar [01:17:00]:
We don't believe you. We don't understand your value system. We don't know what you're talking about, and no, we don't think that you are going to be successful. So explain to us.

Tommy [01:17:07]:
I guess I value happiness more now than I do power.

Eldar [01:17:11]:
Well, Tom, this is not a question to you.

Mike [01:17:13]:
Okay.

Eldar [01:17:14]:
Okay. But we can definitely get.

Tommy [01:17:15]:
There is some kind of development and change going on in my life, for sure. That's what I'm saying.

Eldar [01:17:19]:
Yeah.

Toliy [01:17:19]:
It's taking.

Eldar [01:17:20]:
You're just not. You can't pinpoint to it yet, but you still can't.

Tommy [01:17:22]:
I can. I can pinpoint to it in a time frame of. In the time frame of the last three years. So, like, the lat over the last three years, this development has just been underway.

Eldar [01:17:32]:
Okay, great.

Tommy [01:17:33]:
Which I've been saying, and I believe in it confidently.

Eldar [01:17:37]:
Yeah.

Tommy [01:17:38]:
And. And now it's just a matter of, like, seeing where I'm at and knowing how I work best or something like that. But, yeah, it is kind of. I'm thankful, actually, to have had this come to light because otherwise I, you know, I'm kind of like fish out of the water.

Eldar [01:17:56]:
Good. I'm glad. And I hope. I hope, you know, these types of talks helped you. So, Mike, do we answer. Did I answer your question?

Mike [01:18:04]:
Yeah, but I have more questions.

Eldar [01:18:06]:
Okay.

Mike [01:18:07]:
Do you then if you're not happy, right.

Eldar [01:18:12]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:18:13]:
That means you might want to reevaluate.

Eldar [01:18:16]:
Your values you hoped you hope to find a way there now, because a lot of times you don't.

Mike [01:18:23]:
So then what in the op, does the opposite necessarily mean that if you are happy, that means you have good values?

Eldar [01:18:30]:
It could.

Mike [01:18:30]:
It could. Not necessarily. And I think that's also. That also can be tricky because. Right. For example, somebody buys a new car, they're happy for about an hour or two a day.

Eldar [01:18:42]:
That's right.

Mike [01:18:43]:
Right. So how do you. Again, I'm just trying to get to the root of how do you really become mindful? How do you really pay attention? So what is actually happening? Because sometimes happiness can be fake happiness, because it's not necessarily rooted in.

Toliy [01:19:04]:
Yeah, but it's the opposite way, too, that I think that might be even the bigger problem when someone says they're not happy. I think they're also completely, like, wrong.

Mike [01:19:15]:
About that too, because, like, maybe, maybe. But. But if you look from the outside, you can. They're not happy. Like, the truth of the matter is.

Toliy [01:19:23]:
No, I know they're not happy at times.

Eldar [01:19:25]:
Correct.

Toliy [01:19:26]:
Same thing with their happy at times.

Mike [01:19:28]:
Yes.

Eldar [01:19:28]:
Yeah.

Toliy [01:19:29]:
Right.

Eldar [01:19:29]:
Yeah.

Toliy [01:19:29]:
So when you said they're telling you a, I'm not happy. Right. If, like, that, then also may not be a correct assessment going on because, like, they could have unhappy. Um.

Mike [01:19:43]:
Like, how do you differentiate between the two then?

Toliy [01:19:46]:
Well, that's what I'm saying is that when people talk about it, the no.

Mike [01:19:50]:
Speech for yourself, how do you. Well, how do you know that whatever that you're doing, that you're engaging in. Mm hmm. Is actually making you happy? Genuinely, not that you're on the wrong impression of something.

Toliy [01:20:05]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:20:07]:
And if it's a value, if it's. If it is rooted in the value.

Toliy [01:20:12]:
Well, I would.

Eldar [01:20:13]:
I would.

Toliy [01:20:13]:
I would go back to what you're saying about paying attention. Right. Like, how to be more mindful. I don't. Like. The more that I'm thinking about it, the more I'm thinking that, like, I don't think you have to be. You have to pay more attention to certain things. I think that you have to pay less attention to more things.

Toliy [01:20:32]:
Like, I think that the mindfulness is not supposed to be this, like, yoga induced forced state. I think the lack of mindfulness is, like, the result of you paying it, like, actually having too many things that you're paying attention to that don't need to be paid attention to.

Eldar [01:20:52]:
Agree.

Toliy [01:20:53]:
And when you remove those things, that's when you can get actual, real mindfulness and not have to, like, say, like, hey, in these next 20 minutes, we're gonna be real mindful. Right. We're like, you're not gonna have to force yourself.

Mike [01:21:06]:
Yeah. What you're saying. I agree, because I think that is important. I think we're doing a lot of things we don't have the ability because we have so many commitments, responsibilities and things that we like, interests, responsibilities, whatever. All that stuff.

Toliy [01:21:22]:
And what is that induced mindful state? It's basically. What they're basically saying is that. Look, so it's a lot of B's right now in your life. There's a lot of things you're thinking about. There's a lot of stresses right now. Yeah, let. Yeah, let. No, well, yeah, let's put those aside.

Toliy [01:21:38]:
Right? So they're basically telling you, forcefully telling you, like, hey, I know you have a lot of shit happening right now, and you have a hard time paying attention. Let's put that to the side just for the next ten minutes, and let's actually pay attention to what's happening. So there, I mean, like, that instruction is basically saying yes to just remove what's happening right now so that you can.

Eldar [01:21:59]:
But, yeah, see, they're instructing you. Right? They almost commanding you to do that, but they're not actually explaining to you why.

Mike [01:22:06]:
Well, that's a. That's where I'm trying to get.

Eldar [01:22:08]:
Because in order for you to go through a real class, that's going to be able to explain to you why you should put down what he's talking about. It's going to take some time. You need some reason as to why I got to stop valuing this thing or that thing. Right. To understand, like you. Like you're trying to do, right. This thing in my life, which I used to value, I've understood that. I'm not.

Eldar [01:22:27]:
I no longer need to value or pay attention to because it's causing me actually suffering.

Mike [01:22:31]:
Right.

Eldar [01:22:32]:
All right, so you no longer put in the time and effort into that thing, you start prioritizing other things.

Tommy [01:22:38]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:22:38]:
That's the state of mind.

Toliy [01:22:39]:
Yeah. That's why there needs to be in those kind of things. There's marketing, and there's very specific induced types of states that are done to avoid having to explain or talk about those things. We're gonna be in a very quiet room. It's gonna be nice and warm in here.

Eldar [01:22:56]:
Right.

Toliy [01:22:56]:
The individuals in that room are all. Are all complying to a rule of silence. So you talking about. Yeah, it's just not gonna happen here. You're gonna comply.

Mike [01:23:08]:
Yeah.

Toliy [01:23:08]:
Right. We're gonna play soothing music. Right. And we're gonna. And we're gonna. And. And we're gonna force you into this, like, awkwardness where you have no choice but to put everything aside for a very small amount of time.

Eldar [01:23:26]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:23:27]:
So are you suggesting that, obviously, that's a very micro kind of example of what they're suggesting to do if you. If you want to make an actual shift or then do you have to do that in a big scale, then.

Toliy [01:23:43]:
Well, if. I think that, like, if. Yeah, if you want to make an actual shift, you have to. Yeah. I mean, you. You ultimately have to put in a lot of work and a lot of time towards.

Mike [01:23:54]:
Well, yeah. Do you have to put everything aside?

Eldar [01:23:57]:
No, I think you could do process of elimination like you're doing.

Mike [01:24:00]:
Yeah.

Toliy [01:24:01]:
Yeah. I think that you can put outside the things that don't work.

Eldar [01:24:03]:
Yeah. Who's here has the ability to just put all the responsibility aside just like that. Oh, it's. Okay.

Mike [01:24:10]:
25% of the room is a big percentage.

Eldar [01:24:12]:
Yes. Okay. Okay, fine, fine. Yeah. But I would tell you right now, there's a 75% that actually can do it here.

Mike [01:24:19]:
No, I know.

Eldar [01:24:20]:
He can't.

Mike [01:24:21]:
He can't do it.

Tommy [01:24:21]:
To be mindful.

Mike [01:24:22]:
No, no.

Eldar [01:24:24]:
To put everything aside. All the rest. And go into the woods. Right?

Tommy [01:24:27]:
Yeah, yeah, I do. I mean, sometimes I walk or sometimes I go and sit for.

Mike [01:24:32]:
No, we're not talking about for five minutes when you go into the woods.

Eldar [01:24:35]:
I write.

Tommy [01:24:36]:
I write for 30 minutes. I write for 30 minutes. Every morning. Yeah. Every morning.

Mike [01:24:42]:
With a pen or in your mind?

Tommy [01:24:43]:
With a pen. I write for 30 minutes every morning.

Mike [01:24:45]:
Yeah. Nice.

Tommy [01:24:46]:
So that's like, a.

Eldar [01:24:48]:
In one example practice that I got.

Mike [01:24:51]:
From a book you guys play tic tac.

Tommy [01:24:52]:
So, three pages of college ruled paper.

Mike [01:24:56]:
Double space, 18, no font.

Eldar [01:24:59]:
No.

Tommy [01:25:00]:
And that's part of my daily routine for the last almost three years now.

Mike [01:25:04]:
Sick. Oh. And becoming a good boy.

Tommy [01:25:08]:
It seems like it has a good bench. Some positive. Yeah. Effects on me.

Eldar [01:25:14]:
Okay, great. So maybe never talk about it. Yeah. So, Mike.

Mike [01:25:22]:
So, yeah, so, okay, so about putting things aside. Yeah.

Eldar [01:25:28]:
You could do process of elimination. You could do process slowly to, you know, kind of uncover what are some of the things that are serving you and not serving you in your life and why. But you have to talk about what the value propositions are behind those systems.

Mike [01:25:38]:
Right.

Eldar [01:25:38]:
That you've created yourself.

Mike [01:25:39]:
Right.

Eldar [01:25:40]:
That's why I think it's important to discuss how those things develop. How can they be dropped? Do they serve you? Do they not serve you? What effect that they're having on you. Right.

Mike [01:25:49]:
Yeah. I think it's interesting.

Eldar [01:25:51]:
What burden have you put on yourself by saying to, you know, putting that you wanted to retire your parents 100%. You valued something about this, about that action. That action. Right. Something that's behind it.

Mike [01:26:03]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:26:03]:
And what did you do? You burned yourself.

Mike [01:26:05]:
Right.

Eldar [01:26:06]:
And I think a lot of people have those types of things. Right. Where they think that this is the most important thing in their life. These are the goals that they're supposed to value.

Toliy [01:26:13]:
You know, the thing is, I think that, like, in general, I think a lot of times with those goals, I think how good they sound is what influences the decisions of them or how.

Eldar [01:26:26]:
Our inability to distinguish what's good or bad. Ignorance. No, but a lot of times, they're not even good sounding if you really pay attention to it.

Toliy [01:26:34]:
No, no, no. What I'm saying that, like. Yeah. Like, with the way that the person interprets of what sounds good, like getting rid of rightly good. Okay. Like, you can buy whatever the hit.

Eldar [01:26:48]:
You want, but the way the person.

Mike [01:26:50]:
Interprets is only limited to what they value.

Toliy [01:26:52]:
That's what I. Yeah, correct, correct.

Mike [01:26:55]:
You know what I'm saying?

Toliy [01:26:56]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:26:56]:
You can't have the egg before the chicken. Yeah.

Tommy [01:26:59]:
I don't think there could be pleasure.

Toliy [01:27:01]:
Yeah. I don't think that individuals actually, like, understand or know what they're actually, like, saying that they want to do.

Mike [01:27:08]:
So, you know, people are just running around, running amok, doing a whole bunch of nothing, and they don't have any reason why.

Toliy [01:27:14]:
I think that lots of times, a lot of these goals are just, like, they kind of sound good to people and they sound good to society and they go off of them.

Mike [01:27:25]:
Oh, yeah.

Toliy [01:27:26]:
But I don't know if they actually know, like, well, yeah, that's. That's what I think, actually, one.

Mike [01:27:30]:
I think that's what it is. I think we do a lot of things that we have no idea why they were doing them, and. Yeah, I think the process of elimination.

Eldar [01:27:38]:
That's what I'm saying. That a lot of times, these values, if you start talking to ordinary people.

Mike [01:27:41]:
Let'S just say, right.

Eldar [01:27:42]:
You quickly find out that the value system is so easy to challenge.

Mike [01:27:45]:
Of course.

Toliy [01:27:46]:
Yeah. Like, if just, like. Like, a random person to another random person just goes and says, like.

Eldar [01:27:54]:
Yeah.

Toliy [01:27:55]:
I have a master's degree in engineering.

Eldar [01:27:57]:
Mm hmm.

Toliy [01:27:58]:
Right. Like, to a. I think a lot of people, that idea just sounds good. Like, it, like, when.

Mike [01:28:05]:
When someone hears that good to me too. Yeah.

Toliy [01:28:08]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:28:10]:
Good.

Toliy [01:28:11]:
Yeah, it just kind of sounds good.

Eldar [01:28:13]:
Yeah.

Toliy [01:28:13]:
Right. But like. Like, it. Like, it doesn't mean anything.

Mike [01:28:18]:
Well, it does. It means he knows something about engineering.

Eldar [01:28:22]:
No. Yes.

Tommy [01:28:23]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:28:23]:
Yeah.

Tommy [01:28:24]:
Okay, let's assume what Mike say. That is right.

Eldar [01:28:26]:
What do you mean? Oh, my God. Mike caught him, bro.

Mike [01:28:36]:
I put the. But the wolf cage out.

Eldar [01:28:40]:
Mike put the food inside and we fucking caught him.

Tommy [01:28:43]:
Let's see. Set this up hypothetically. So Mike says yes. So he.

Eldar [01:28:46]:
Why? Tom knows why. Why is this important?

Mike [01:28:48]:
Because he has a master's degree.

Tommy [01:28:49]:
Because what Mike's saying is rooted in some truth.

Mike [01:28:53]:
It's. He's esteemed.

Eldar [01:28:54]:
You understand what you did? You didn't think that you were going to do this? No, but you caught a fucking gem, bro.

Toliy [01:28:58]:
No, I did not.

Eldar [01:29:00]:
He's fighting for it. What you just said, because he's completely disagreeing with you. When you said, means nothing, he said, what do you mean it means nothing? You crazy? You insulted him.

Toliy [01:29:10]:
Really?

Eldar [01:29:11]:
Indirectly.

Mike [01:29:14]:
Esteemed education, masters and diplomas.

Eldar [01:29:19]:
You put out a huge trap. If I put a huge block of cheese, and this was the rat that we caught. Hi, Tom.

Mike [01:29:34]:
He's stuck on that. That's an esteemed thing.

Eldar [01:29:37]:
Holy shit. Tom.

Mike [01:29:38]:
I respect Tom. I respect you for sticking that thought.

Eldar [01:29:41]:
Go ahead. Yeah, it doesn't mean anything.

Tommy [01:29:42]:
Well, first of all, let me say thank you for the cheese.

Eldar [01:29:51]:
Okay.

Tommy [01:29:52]:
So, actually, this kid who I was talking to today, he said to me that people are different because they'll say, okay, like, I'm an artiste. And that person will have, like, let's say, interesting ways of, like, combining the world into. Into things that are sort of, like, start fundamental and, like, become something abstract or whatever. But when you have an engineer say, that person will know, like, some foundation of, like, reality, and they'll be able to, like, use math and stuff. And that. That's their perspective, roughly. He said something like this. Two different people in different professions have different outlooks, like, on the world.

Tommy [01:30:35]:
And now my question is, like, can they share something in common? Or in most cases, are, like. They, like, actually separate and actually unique, different from each other. So, like, what you said is, it doesn't mean anything. Well, there's a. I don't know. I guess there's a tendency for it to mean something if. Even if it's just an opinion. So, like, if.

Tommy [01:31:04]:
If you're not, if you're telling me the truth and you're like, I run a company, I'm gonna think, okay. You got a lot of stuff to deal with.

Toliy [01:31:11]:
Yeah. I feel like the more I hear it, like, I feel like Tom is my understanding of what he's trying to do is that I feel like he's trying to chase chase a place in the world that that will be accepted. But I feel like he feels like that it may not need to be accepted by him.

Tommy [01:31:40]:
T says I'm trying to chase some kind of high.

Toliy [01:31:42]:
Well, that's what I'm saying. Like, for example, someone who has a master's in engineering. Like, for example, I feel like he feels has a. Like, an accepted place in society.

Eldar [01:31:54]:
Okay.

Toliy [01:31:54]:
Right.

Eldar [01:31:55]:
Yeah.

Toliy [01:31:55]:
And I feel like he's trying to chase an accepted place inside of you where he could be. Where he could be in.

Eldar [01:32:04]:
Yeah.

Toliy [01:32:04]:
That is approved by society.

Eldar [01:32:06]:
Yeah.

Toliy [01:32:06]:
But I think he's trying to skip over the fact that he needs to approve it himself.

Tommy [01:32:10]:
Just kind of like, letting go of that chase. Yeah, for sure. For sure. I'm done thinking that I'm not enough. I'm done being crazy. Like I said last week or whatever.

Mike [01:32:19]:
It was by what you just said is now isn't saying the opposite.

Tommy [01:32:25]:
No. I deal with specifically, like, the things that I've been dealing with. I literally just repeated myself. It sounds tautological. But the truth is, is like, I'm focused, really, on my recovery. And that recovery deals specifically with my pain.

Toliy [01:32:40]:
Accolades. Accolades have a guarantee, like, what people view as a guaranteed, like, mark on the world.

Mike [01:32:48]:
Yes.

Toliy [01:32:48]:
Like, you have, like, an acceptance into, like, a. Like, a group of people that you're now a part of. And nobody can take that away from you.

Eldar [01:32:59]:
So it's fair to say that you esteem my master's degree in mental health counseling, Tom.

Toliy [01:33:02]:
Yes.

Tommy [01:33:04]:
I esteem yours.

Eldar [01:33:05]:
Yeah.

Tommy [01:33:06]:
Your master degree in mental health counseling. Well, not after you told me you bought it in cash. I do. Yes. I absolutely do. Because I realize that a lot of the, you know, maybe skills or difference.

Toliy [01:33:23]:
Like that is, like, the last thing I would say, that that is the last thing about you that I give a flying fuck about.

Eldar [01:33:29]:
Yeah, like.

Toliy [01:33:30]:
Like, like the last thing.

Eldar [01:33:32]:
Yeah. But you guys are different people.

Tommy [01:33:33]:
Every.

Toliy [01:33:34]:
Everyone in this will hit the speck of dust on your shirt before we'll hit that.

Eldar [01:33:37]:
Well, yeah.

Mike [01:33:38]:
I mean, yeah, see, with, um.

Eldar [01:33:41]:
But it's important. Say something.

Mike [01:33:44]:
Yeah, with Tom hundred percent esteems that. But what I wanted to ask you, do you think that a person who's sick is qualified to diagnose his own sickness and to give him his own medicine?

Toliy [01:33:55]:
Oh, you're going to the demon roll?

Eldar [01:33:59]:
Yeah. You want to the demon?

Toliy [01:34:01]:
Give us a fucking bag of garlic.

Eldar [01:34:03]:
Or something in the mirror.

Mike [01:34:06]:
I'm just asking a simple question you always ask.

Toliy [01:34:08]:
Yes. Simple. Fucking Sally fucking, like, requests in a logical sense.

Mike [01:34:14]:
Not you, not me, not anybody in.

Tommy [01:34:17]:
This room, since I'm the rat in this equation.

Mike [01:34:20]:
No, I didn't say that.

Tommy [01:34:21]:
Let's say you guys threw a little bit of. No, I am.

Eldar [01:34:24]:
I am the hypothetical bread on top of that cheese.

Mike [01:34:26]:
Yeah.

Tommy [01:34:29]:
Let's see. You guys put a little cookie, tomato.

Eldar [01:34:31]:
Sauce, jam, or, like, melting the bread.

Tommy [01:34:33]:
Marmalade next to that cheese.

Eldar [01:34:35]:
A little fake spread.

Tommy [01:34:36]:
And that marmalade had a little bit of, like, ibuprofen in it or something, you know?

Eldar [01:34:40]:
Then.

Tommy [01:34:40]:
Then maybe. Maybe the question is, what is self?

Toliy [01:34:46]:
And.

Mike [01:34:51]:
Okay.

Eldar [01:34:51]:
Got it.

Tommy [01:34:52]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:34:52]:
Thank you for your honesty. Yeah.

Eldar [01:34:54]:
But, I mean, thank you for answering it.

Tommy [01:34:56]:
Do you want to continue to discuss that?

Mike [01:34:58]:
Do I think it's a good question?

Tommy [01:35:00]:
Maybe. Maybe for another week, you know, like.

Mike [01:35:03]:
No, I think it's someone who's sick to hear, because a lot of the times we're trying to self diagnose and understand our values, but they are very tricky because we're. Stick with our desires.

Eldar [01:35:13]:
No, I think that if you make it. I mean. Yeah. Yes. I mean, I'll use words that are not gonna be a time. Proper use, like, a genuine effort. You know what I'm saying? Right. I guess it just helps to have a sound board.

Eldar [01:35:27]:
Yeah, it helps to have a sound board because the sound board is not compromised.

Mike [01:35:31]:
Oh, I forgot to say, dennis, if you're listening, that question about Tom, that also was for you.

Eldar [01:35:37]:
Oh, my gosh.

Tommy [01:35:39]:
Soundboard is not. The sound board is not comp.

Mike [01:35:41]:
Oh, I gotta take a couple shots. Dennis, it's new year.

Tommy [01:35:43]:
Meaning, like, I can. You can open up your friends.

Eldar [01:35:46]:
Correct. The people you trust.

Tommy [01:35:49]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:35:49]:
The people that know, like, know you. You know them. And they want your, like, your success. You know what I mean? They have that, like, as a priority for you to succeed, for you to win or whatever it is. Yeah.

Tommy [01:36:00]:
I mean, I keep saying I'm not gonna make the same mistakes.

Eldar [01:36:02]:
Yeah.

Tommy [01:36:03]:
Which is yet to be seen, I.

Eldar [01:36:05]:
Guess, you know, because they'll be honest with you, you know? Even though most of the time, you know, people probably see it as, like, hating or something. But if you have critical thought on your side, Mike, you can accomplish a lot on your own. Yeah, you could.

Mike [01:36:24]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:36:24]:
Because. Because you realize that one thing that you do realize, like, that thing that you're talking about, that there's another side of us that lives inside of us that's constantly wants to sell some snake oil. You know what I mean?

Mike [01:36:35]:
Yeah.

Toliy [01:36:36]:
And creativity is the thought that never escaped the chamber.

Eldar [01:36:43]:
That's William journey.

Toliy [01:36:49]:
Mike, go with these all day, right? Like.

Eldar [01:36:54]:
Yeah. You know, then you can finally, a little bit, have a little bit of doubt about what you're selling yourself, but you have to be committed to it, to that. If not, you hope to have a circle of individuals who can be a little bit more scalable.

Tommy [01:37:07]:
Wait, I'm sorry to interrupt you. I got a question, t. Who fucked you up in life?

Mike [01:37:11]:
Huh?

Eldar [01:37:12]:
Who was it?

Tommy [01:37:13]:
Who did it, bro?

Toliy [01:37:15]:
One of you motherfuckers.

Tommy [01:37:23]:
I mean, it had to be. I mean, for me, it was definitely this one teacher.

Toliy [01:37:29]:
Mm hmm.

Tommy [01:37:30]:
We had to color in a map, like a Us map. And I just went at it, you know, just whatever.

Eldar [01:37:34]:
But what, you guys had sex, what.

Tommy [01:37:36]:
They were expecting was, like, every state color differently. You know, like, this one yellow, this one red. You know, I don't clearly don't have 50 colors. Mm hmm. So I just went at it. They made me redo it two or three times without telling me what I did wrong. Okay. It's that kind of shit that really did it for me.

Mike [01:37:56]:
That really grinds your gear.

Tommy [01:37:57]:
Other things too, which maybe won't even go into, but still, it's things like that. Whereas, like, I got notes sent home. Tom stood up to sharpen his pencil.

Toliy [01:38:07]:
Today, and he peed on the.

Mike [01:38:08]:
And that's how they instill that values in you, through fear.

Eldar [01:38:12]:
Well, yes, one way.

Mike [01:38:13]:
You know, one of the ways. Yes, Tom, that's. Yo, listen, if you're trying to get.

Toliy [01:38:17]:
A pass, Tom, can I ask you a question, please. Do you. Do you feel internally that the current person that you are right now does not fit into society?

Tommy [01:38:29]:
Part in part. Not enough to fuck me up so badly that I exit, that I leave it? Yeah.

Mike [01:38:37]:
Yeah.

Tommy [01:38:37]:
Let's just say my small part is university buzzing around. Not enough for me.

Eldar [01:38:42]:
I don't feel like I fit inside.

Tommy [01:38:44]:
But I do feel like a great lord walking around sometimes, which makes me feel like shit.

Eldar [01:38:48]:
Do you?

Toliy [01:38:49]:
No.

Mike [01:38:52]:
No, Tony definitely does. Doesn't feel like that. Yeah, he's.

Eldar [01:38:56]:
You understand?

Mike [01:38:57]:
Yeah, we don't.

Eldar [01:38:58]:
I don't think. I think the individuals here in this room right now don't fucking fit in society, bro. Yeah, but we don't.

Mike [01:39:04]:
We don't.

Eldar [01:39:05]:
But we're not it.

Mike [01:39:06]:
We're trying to make our own society.

Eldar [01:39:07]:
Well, that's. Yeah, that's different.

Toliy [01:39:08]:
That's what I'm saying. And I feel like in Tom's case, he's trying to do things that he's trying to make you feel that he can fit in because he doesn't feel like that.

Mike [01:39:16]:
He doesn't want to rebel.

Eldar [01:39:17]:
Yeah.

Tommy [01:39:19]:
It's probably a longer conversation required for that.

Eldar [01:39:23]:
Yeah. Okay.

Tommy [01:39:25]:
But, you know, to each their own. If this is something of value to me, then I'll act on it. If not, I'll just leave it, let it go. If it bothers me, I'll deal with it.

Eldar [01:39:35]:
Right.

Tommy [01:39:35]:
Or just let it go.

Eldar [01:39:39]:
Yeah, that's a tough question to even subject yourself to fit into society.

Mike [01:39:45]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:39:45]:
Like, I think if you fit into society, bro, you in trouble. You already in trouble.

Mike [01:39:50]:
Yeah, that's what I'm saying.

Toliy [01:39:52]:
But if you're actively working to trying.

Eldar [01:39:54]:
To fit into society, then you next level trouble.

Toliy [01:39:57]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:39:57]:
Yeah.

Toliy [01:39:57]:
That's what I'm saying is that I feel like Tom has a lot, like, to, like, offer himself, but, like, I think he's. He's, like, going down by trying to.

Eldar [01:40:09]:
Yeah.

Toliy [01:40:09]:
Fit in. Right.

Eldar [01:40:10]:
Yeah.

Toliy [01:40:11]:
Like, it's, like, going the opposite way.

Tommy [01:40:15]:
Yeah, that's the common theme. So it's what it always.

Eldar [01:40:18]:
But you like.

Tommy [01:40:18]:
And I cry about.

Eldar [01:40:19]:
Oh, you do cry about it.

Tommy [01:40:20]:
Well, to you guys, clearly.

Eldar [01:40:21]:
Oh, yeah, I have. Yeah.

Tommy [01:40:23]:
Right. In other words.

Eldar [01:40:24]:
Yeah.

Tommy [01:40:26]:
But, you know, you don't want to.

Eldar [01:40:29]:
Go through, like, strange. You don't want to go through, like. Like, forgiveness and stuff like that. Through those types of methods in order to remove these chains.

Tommy [01:40:35]:
I do. And these forgive, like, forgiveness specifically, it goes through that process of mindfulness, which makes my life a little bit better and easier.

Eldar [01:40:43]:
Okay. All right, so you know the path.

Tommy [01:40:46]:
Yes, I know a path for sure. Yeah.

Eldar [01:40:50]:
So we'll push you out as far as you can go. You'll be fine. Right? Like, we'll still have the invisible rope on you. You can always come back home.

Tommy [01:41:00]:
I mean, I think it's fair to say I'm, like, now swimming on my own.

Eldar [01:41:04]:
Yeah, you're a big boy, Ricky.

Mike [01:41:08]:
Big boy, Ricky.

Tommy [01:41:09]:
Yeah. I mean, look, there's, like, Jordan Peterson, right? Like he says. Or let's say society says this. Like, you gotta grow up. You know? I mean, you gotta choose this one thing to do with your life. Grow up. I've been through all that. Like, I skipped the regular stuff, you know what I mean? And I started to do my own thing.

Toliy [01:41:34]:
Well, when have you grown up?

Mike [01:41:36]:
And. And why would you grow up? Why does he give a reason why you should grow up?

Toliy [01:41:41]:
And how are you under the pressure that you've grown up?

Tommy [01:41:43]:
And eventually I felt the pressure of it.

Mike [01:41:45]:
Let's say of growing up or not growing up.

Tommy [01:41:47]:
Yeah, of, like. Like, people telling you to grow up.

Eldar [01:41:50]:
Why?

Tommy [01:41:50]:
Because the desires that I have necessitated certain things that I'd need in order to feel like I got my health thing. Like, it just necessitated it. Like, there were things that triggered me, and I said, okay, I'm not having it anymore. This is one thing I've gone through. I'm saying absolutely no to this is I'm drawing the line. And. Yeah, by, like, some, you know, I guess I tried. I tried, but that, this is why where it comes to, am I gonna, like, lead with what I know, or am I just gonna say, okay, it was like, uh, I let it go just fine.

Tommy [01:42:28]:
I'm doing all right? It's kind of a difficult question, but still, you know. Um. But, yeah, I mean, society, like, they'll tell you, like. Like, women or, like, something like that, they'll. They'll pressure you. You know? Like, do you have a home, you have a car? Do you have this? Like, they won't pressure you necessarily. You know what I mean? I'm not. I don't mean to say that, like, you'll be judged by women.

Tommy [01:42:53]:
I mean to say that there'll probably be an expectation that you will be rejected against if you don't know, but.

Toliy [01:43:00]:
You will be judged. Right. Uh, that's guaranteed.

Tommy [01:43:05]:
Yeah. But you may not know what the hell they're thinking.

Toliy [01:43:07]:
Okay.

Tommy [01:43:08]:
They may say no to you, and you will just have to accept the no. That's it. You know? Um, but, like, yeah, I think. I think just generally, like, yeah, I'm up against some of that right now. Finish the education, be done with it. Deal with whatever you have to do. Like, do it next. Do that stuff next.

Tommy [01:43:29]:
Do whatever comes next. Just do this now. That's kind of what it is, and that's not easy for me right now because there are impulses that, like, I'm surrounded by, that people, like, will act on, that are easier for them to act on. The. So making the best of it right now is, like, is the right thing for me to do. That's been, like, a hell of a fucking tough problem to wrangle.

Eldar [01:43:54]:
Thank you, Tom, for sharing. Not sure what you shared.

Mike [01:44:03]:
You know, different. We have a diverse audience.

Eldar [01:44:06]:
Yeah. And I'll tell you, the people already, they're in freakin yeah. And they're, you know, I appreciate your consistency. You know, come in every week, you know.

Tommy [01:44:17]:
Thank you.

Eldar [01:44:18]:
Yeah. So. All right, any final thoughts then, Mike? Any other questions that you had around what we do? We have any suggestions? I mean, we definitely heard you say, remove some of the things. Totally said that.

Tommy [01:44:34]:
You said that.

Mike [01:44:35]:
Yeah.

Tommy [01:44:35]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:44:35]:
Right. A lot of times where we are pretty much bombarded by a lot of different things. The process of elimination. Right. Seeing what we value it.

Mike [01:44:42]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:44:43]:
What we don't, some of the goals that we've set around those things will help us free our minds a little bit, you know, maybe develop a better value system.

Toliy [01:44:52]:
Yeah. Like, when it comes to, like, I guess my final words, at least, is that when trying to, I guess, examine your value systems or maybe, like, try to change them, I would probably say, like, the best. Like, the best advice that I could think of is more. Is more, like, try to see, like, what's. What. What's going on or what's happening in your life that you're not happy with or, like, suffering in and try to fix. Try to figure out maybe why without, like, trying to look externally for that one.

Eldar [01:45:27]:
Okay.

Toliy [01:45:28]:
If you can, maybe, like. Like, it might be in the beginning where you have to forcefully box yourself in. I'm saying, they're like, okay, like, this is what I'm suffering with, and there's no way that. There's no way that it could be something external. And then you really have to kind of, like, look and figure out what internally could it be? I think that, like, not. Not resorting to the internal will help you and give you, like, a. Some kind of path to start questioning something or thinking about something.

Eldar [01:45:59]:
Yeah.

Toliy [01:46:00]:
Over some time.

Eldar [01:46:01]:
Yeah, I agree with that. That's good.

Mike [01:46:03]:
Good advice, I guess. You know what he was saying? Interesting. But the end where you said it's not external, I think if you can, like, really focus that idea, that concept, and really, like, study the fuck out of it and examine the fuck out of it, that is a. That might be a huge unlock thing to actually freeing yourself, because once you realize that everything, almost everything is. Is you. You have the power.

Eldar [01:46:31]:
Mm hmm.

Mike [01:46:32]:
It's. You have the power. You all start looking at things differently, and you'll start more paying attention and changing the outlook on life. You won't look at it like, oh, why is. Why is this happening to me? You know, it's like.

Eldar [01:46:48]:
Like a victim.

Mike [01:46:49]:
Like a victim mentality. You'd be like, okay, why is it happening to me? What have I done?

Eldar [01:46:53]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:46:54]:
For this to come into my life? Because it always does. It's like, you don't get things to happen to you.

Eldar [01:46:58]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:46:58]:
Unless it's deserved or earned. Right?

Eldar [01:47:00]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:47:01]:
You know, that's my belief. So if you. If B happened to you, it's because you are a. So a is always goes to be like, you know, it's like you can't.

Eldar [01:47:12]:
There's a connection.

Mike [01:47:12]:
There's a connection.

Eldar [01:47:13]:
Takes two to tango.

Tommy [01:47:14]:
That's a nice way to be happened to you is because you're a. Yes.

Mike [01:47:18]:
You know, so that's. But when you look at things like that, we think it, like, we never look at it that way. Oh, be happened. It's probably because of c. Yeah. Outside world. Yeah.

Eldar [01:47:30]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:47:31]:
That's the problem. I think. I think that's a big problem. And I'm not sure if it's like a.

Eldar [01:47:35]:
Right.

Toliy [01:47:35]:
Right.

Tommy [01:47:35]:
To get to the million dollars, you think you need that? All those five things that society tells you, or all the. Those ten things that society tells you, like, wake up, stay fit, eat, bust.

Mike [01:47:45]:
Your ass at 05:00 a.m. yeah, exactly. Oh, clean your bed. Yeah, clean your bed.

Tommy [01:47:49]:
Like, wash your teeth twice. I don't know. That's a good thing. Yeah, do your bed.

Mike [01:47:54]:
Do your bed. I never do my bed. Yeah. Tie your socks and look where I landed.

Eldar [01:47:59]:
Like fuck, you know?

Mike [01:48:01]:
Definitely clean your beds if you don't want to be like, hey, this is true, Tom.

Eldar [01:48:06]:
Yes. I would give you the final thoughts, but I think you've said them in the beginning of the conversation, so made me believe that I can't give you the stage anymore. You finished?

Toliy [01:48:21]:
What about him? Ending with the beginning thoughts.

Eldar [01:48:24]:
Yes, that's definitely. Welcome, Tom. The topic of the day today is how our values developed. You don't have to say anything about that. That portion of the conversation.

Tommy [01:48:36]:
Well, sorry, Tom's not here right now.

Eldar [01:48:39]:
Yeah, leave a message. I got caught in Mike's and Tony's cage. Did you get the right bait?

Tommy [01:48:48]:
But if you guys have any more cheese, I'll glad you. Gladly.

Eldar [01:48:52]:
Yeah, man. Without knowing part, you know, how are these. These values that we have hold us down and I sometimes. And without knowing part is the. I guess maybe not the scary part, but, like, the concerning part for me. You know what I mean? Because as you said earlier, like, that stuff's been passed down to us and God knows who.

Mike [01:49:12]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:49:12]:
And God knows what was passed down to us, right. And that's right now living in us.

Mike [01:49:18]:
Till this day, 100% through the way we act, shaping us in every interaction.

Eldar [01:49:23]:
Correct. So it will resonated with me, is what you said. Like, hey, like, I. You are actually a copy of LeBron James, right. The president, if you esteem the president.

Mike [01:49:33]:
Yeah, right.

Eldar [01:49:35]:
Whoever, right. Who's also bought it into the whole society thing and promoting this type of behavior. And you esteeming those individuals, you actually are just a copy. Right. And that's concerning.

Mike [01:49:49]:
That is very bad.

Eldar [01:49:51]:
Yeah, that's.

Mike [01:49:51]:
Think about.

Eldar [01:49:52]:
Yeah, that's concerning.

Toliy [01:49:54]:
It's almost like you're putting, like you're giving the past to like, your existence is not really that important.

Eldar [01:50:01]:
It's not. And I think that right there, what he just said, your existence is not that important. Causes war. Think about that for a second. There's individuals out there right now.

Mike [01:50:15]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:50:16]:
Who are under the impression that they should send a mass amount of people to kill each other for God knows what reason. Because your life does not. Is not that. It doesn't really matter. What we're gonna do is we're gonna just clone more people by having more babies.

Mike [01:50:33]:
But do you think the war, your existence doesn't matter? But I guess the war that that exists is because you have a war inside yourself.

Eldar [01:50:41]:
No, no, that's a hundred percent. But what you're saying is that, oh, if we're all just copies.

Mike [01:50:46]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:50:46]:
And we really are not relevant. Individuals that have the ability. Yeah. Yeah.

Mike [01:50:50]:
No, that's for sure. Tell us what to do.

Toliy [01:50:53]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:50:54]:
Outside of our existence.

Tommy [01:50:55]:
Yeah.

Toliy [01:50:55]:
And we need to win this war so that maybe future people can be born. Individuals.

Eldar [01:51:00]:
The individuals. Correct. Who think.

Mike [01:51:02]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:51:03]:
And that's crazy. You might just be a copy. Whoever's listening out there. You just might be a copy.

Mike [01:51:09]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:51:10]:
Holy fuck. Like, talk about cloning.

Toliy [01:51:14]:
You're not even like. And, yeah.

Eldar [01:51:16]:
You don't need to clone anything. I mean, your mind has already done it.

Mike [01:51:20]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:51:21]:
You. You got fucked.

Mike [01:51:23]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:51:23]:
Just being born. You fucked.

Mike [01:51:25]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:51:26]:
You know what I'm saying?

Toliy [01:51:27]:
You can subscribe to just be someone else's shadow.

Eldar [01:51:30]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:51:31]:
Most people do.

Eldar [01:51:32]:
Well, that's. That's what it is. You know what? That's why, yeah. It's.

Mike [01:51:36]:
It's important.

Eldar [01:51:37]:
And that's. That's a wild fucking scenario.

Mike [01:51:40]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:51:40]:
I mean, and that's why the war will continue.

Mike [01:51:42]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:51:43]:
Because of this thing. Human life is not valued.

Mike [01:51:47]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:51:47]:
Enough. Because of this phenomenon.

Tommy [01:51:51]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:51:52]:
You just. You just a number, bro. Like, what do you have to offer?

Mike [01:51:56]:
Yeah. Like what do you not do anything that's. That's individual to you? That's something that's important to you, that actually has meaning. Like, you're just a fucking. You just your Social Security number.

Eldar [01:52:08]:
That's it.

Mike [01:52:10]:
That's it. And a name. That's it that somebody else gave you.

Eldar [01:52:13]:
Yeah. Yeah. That's. Yeah. Yeah. So if you're being sideswiped and unhappy generally, like you said about your life.

Mike [01:52:22]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:52:22]:
You ought to examine that shit, because if you don't. Yeah. You might be just living out somebody else's existence.

Mike [01:52:28]:
Yeah.

Toliy [01:52:29]:
Damn.

Mike [01:52:30]:
That's why the oldest philosophers, they're 5000 years ago. They, they were unique people.

Eldar [01:52:35]:
They didn't talk about, they don't know nothing about John Doe, bro. You know, Socrates.

Mike [01:52:39]:
You know, individuals who matter because they, they were not copies. They were individuals. They, their purpose was to.

Eldar [01:52:47]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:52:47]:
Individualize themselves and be in here. And that's what they able to tap into such a great, they might be the ultimate creatives.

Eldar [01:52:57]:
Yeah. Well, listen, you know me. You would definitely agree on that. That's it. That's all right.

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