53. Dana White's Domestic Violence Allegation: What Should Justice Look Like? - podcast episode cover

53. Dana White's Domestic Violence Allegation: What Should Justice Look Like?

Dennis Rox
Jan 20, 2023•2 hr 43 min•Ep. 53
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Episode description

How should society approach the issue of domestic violence committed by public figures like Dana White, balancing punishment with the potential for genuine rehabilitation?

In Episode 53 of "Dennis Rox," hosts Eldar and Mike dive into a thought-provoking discussion centered around the complex character of Dana White, UFC’s President, and his recent involvement in a domestic violence incident. The episode questions how justice should be applied to public figures like White, especially considering his influential position and celebrity status. The hosts and guests debate whether punitive measures or educational and rehabilitative approaches are more effective in ensuring lasting behavioral change, all while highlighting the hypocrisy often exhibited by public figures versus their public personas.

The conversation extends into the broader themes of hypocrisy, accountability, and how celebrities are perceived by the public. With vivid anecdotes and philosophical insights, Eldar and Mike explore whether public figures should be held to a higher standard and whether society's admiration affects judgment and leniency toward them. The episode also addresses the distinction between personal and professional realms, and the potential of rehabilitation to transform influential figures like Dana White for the betterment of society. Tune in for a compelling discussion that challenges conventional notions of justice and accountability.

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Transcript

Eldar [00:00:00]:
On this week's episode, one thing if we knew that Dana White already had aggressive tendencies, previous history of this type of behavior, but he's saying that he's been advocating for this for a very long time. So what are we talking about? How can you then talk about the topic when you yourself haven't mastered it?

Mike [00:00:13]:
Low key justice, true justice, if it's exacted properly, is I think it's the greatest gift you can give to somebody who's done wrong.

Eldar [00:00:20]:
I don't need you to tell me that you're against domestic violence if you don't understand the concept of love. Because if you understood the concept of love, I know you don't value domestic violence either.

Tommy [00:00:29]:
Do this piss test, go to rehab. When I go to rehab, they tell me I have the highest crack levels they've ever seen.

Eldar [00:00:46]:
Let's welcome back, Alex, Tommy, there have been consistent guests for the last two.

Mike [00:00:51]:
Weeks, which says a lot.

Eldar [00:00:54]:
Mm hmm.

Guest [00:00:55]:
Yeah, it's a good vibe.

Eldar [00:00:56]:
It does say a lot. Alright, guys, we're going to talk about today, and you got the introduction to the topic on. I guess it's a current event, right. What happened was Dana White, who's a UFC president, the president of UFC has, a couple weeks ago, a week ago, slapped his wife several times while on vacation in Mexico. And now, obviously, he's in the media, right, for his behavior. He's apologized, and now the media is trying to ask questions. Right. And some of the, some of the hard questions they were asking was around, um, I guess what Mike, uh, what.

Mike [00:01:30]:
Does he feel suitable punishment?

Eldar [00:01:33]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:01:33]:
What does he feel a suitable punishment for. For this type of behavior that he displayed?

Eldar [00:01:38]:
Yeah, obviously, you know, um, he, like he said plenty of times he's, uh, he talked about domestic abuse and he always spoke against it, you know, and now he's displaying his behavior. All right. Typically, what happens, at least when you're in a public light, you know, as a celebrity, is this big. Right. You get canceled nowadays, right. Or where they, you know, they either pull your. Pull you from the, you know, from whatever position you have, and then they cancel your show or whatever. Or they remove.

Eldar [00:02:08]:
They take away the money pretty much. Right?

Mike [00:02:10]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:02:11]:
Me and Mike, we had a conversation around this whole thing, going to the gym, whether or not I, who should be, you know, kind of assigning the punishment here. Right. And what's the, what's the just punishment for action such as that one? All right. What's fair and what's not.

Mike [00:02:30]:
You asked me what do I think, you know, is deserve punishment. For this kind of behavior.

Eldar [00:02:37]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:02:37]:
You know, and. And I think he also said it. Like, he said it. He's like, yeah, if you cancel me, you're not hurting me, you're hurting the fighters.

Eldar [00:02:45]:
That's right.

Mike [00:02:46]:
Which I thought was a funny comment, but what is the proper punishment for somebody displaying any kind of behavior, but specifically this one where he clearly did something wrong? You know, he admits that he did something wrong. He says that he feels bad for what he did. So would it be justice to what. Cancel him? Cancel his. Cancel him. Fire him, cancel the show? What killed his contracts with the UFC and the, you know, his affiliates? Like, what. What would be the. What would be justice, you know, like, what is deserved to a person who, you know, displayed such behavior? That's kind of the question that elder asked me.

Mike [00:03:32]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:03:33]:
I wanted to know, like, what are you thinking? Because you clearly weren't buying his apology.

Mike [00:03:38]:
Yeah, I definitely felt like his apology.

Eldar [00:03:40]:
You felt like it wasn't genuine.

Mike [00:03:42]:
It didn't feel genuine.

Eldar [00:03:43]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:03:43]:
When I watched and I listened to the interview that he gave recently, I didn't feel like it was a genuine apology that he actually felt sorry for what he did. So if he doesn't feel sorry for what he did, he probably does not believe that he might not believe that it's a wrong behavior, you know, or understand it actually fully. You know, like, everybody can say general things like, oh, stealing is bad, and, you know, all these things, and lying is bad. Right. But not when it's convenient for you. Right. Like, then it's not bad. So, yeah, I wasn't buying his apology, and I don't.

Mike [00:04:18]:
I. I would like to, you know, understand what is the punishments I deserve for him for doing this, you know, for doing this, for this behavior. And that's where the conversation kind of mean you went, yeah, I, you know. Yeah, my thing was like, okay, if you cancel him, how is that going to affect his life? He's extremely wealthy. He doesn't need the money, in my opinion. Right. Again, he's at a level where he probably doesn't need the money in order to live life and, like, to live a good life and, you know, have everything he wants. You know, he.

Mike [00:04:52]:
So if you. If you, you know, strip him of that, that's not. I'm not sure if that's going to affect them.

Eldar [00:04:57]:
Right. Well, no, not if. Not if his good life is defined by doing what he loves. Right? If. Let's just say that president, you know, Dana White loves being the president of UFC and everything that comes with it. Yeah.

Mike [00:05:13]:
And that.

Eldar [00:05:13]:
That brings him joy in his life. If you take that away from him, you are actually influencing him in certain type way because he clearly doesn't need the money to work, but he still works.

Mike [00:05:23]:
But if you strip him of the title, is that the. Is that the fair punishment for. For slapping his wife? What is like the just punishment for doing a wrong action? You know? And one thing that I was thinking about and is that is something that Socrates said. He said, he asked this the same question. He's like, what is the punishment for a person for doing wrong, right. Doing something that they don't know any better. And Socrates was said something. He said the person should find out that should be their punishment.

Mike [00:05:56]:
You know, they should find out that is justice for the person to really understand why they did wrong. Right. Like, let's say. Let's call rehabilitation. That person has to learn, you know? But how would you rehab a person? Would you. And we also talked about this, like, putting people in jail. I'm not sure if that's a rehab, you know? So if you punish him with jail time or. Which is maybe extreme in this case, I don't know, but I.

Mike [00:06:21]:
If you punish him with jail time or money or strip him from his, you know, title as president or cancel him. Right. Or all the stuff, is that actually going to teach him the lesson that needs to be learned here in order for justice to kind of prevail? If you guys believe that that's justice again?

Eldar [00:06:39]:
Yeah. Yeah. I mean. Well, the tricky part is. Right, he's been an advocate against domestic.

Mike [00:06:44]:
Yeah, right.

Eldar [00:06:46]:
That is putting hands on women.

Mike [00:06:48]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:06:48]:
Right. And he's probably has come across this situation pretty often. Not. I'm not talking about maybe in his personal life, but more so in his professional life because he manages a lot, a lot of fighters. And as you know, obviously the sport is, you know, an aggressive one. Right. That involves violence and unfortunately. Right.

Eldar [00:07:12]:
Or Orlando, rightfully so, those fighters a lot of times get involved in domestic abuse.

Mike [00:07:20]:
The guys get. Or the girls. Yeah, whoever. Both.

Eldar [00:07:23]:
Whoever. Right. So obviously he has to handle those cases and administer a certain level of punishment to them. So the interesting question that one of the. One of the reporters asked was like, okay, going forward, Dana, how are you gonna. How is this gonna change the policy of the UFC when it comes to domestic abuse with your fighters? How are you gonna punish them? What is gonna change? What are you gonna do?

Tommy [00:07:51]:
They're asking.

Eldar [00:07:52]:
They're asking Dana White, how is he gonna handle those cases of domestic abuse? Right. Wow.

Tommy [00:07:58]:
So there's a possibility that he can stay on.

Eldar [00:08:01]:
Well, I'm not.

Mike [00:08:02]:
We don't know.

Eldar [00:08:03]:
Yeah, we don't know. We don't know.

Mike [00:08:04]:
We don't know yet. It's only recently.

Eldar [00:08:06]:
It's only very recent. So we don't know whether or not he's gonna get canceled. Something's gonna happen to him. We're just trying to figure out what would be the appropriate punishment here for an act such as this one. And like Mike said, what is just, what is actually fair, right. When it comes to this. And I think the reporter that asked that question, she's trying to find out what's fair. You know what I mean? Because obviously he's going to subject his fighters to a specific punishment.

Mike [00:08:32]:
Right?

Eldar [00:08:32]:
Right. Is he going to subject himself to the same punishment, is the question. He's the president. He's the face of the company. Or should he be subjecting himself to a higher level standard because he's the face of the company?

Mike [00:08:45]:
That's a good question. Yeah.

Tommy [00:08:47]:
This is gonna sound really weird, but when I worked at a restaurant, I learned that some ingredients, they layer. They double. They double. Like a chocolate cake would do well with chocolate ice cream. Why do they have triple chocolate or what do they call it?

Mike [00:09:04]:
Triple. Triple. Triple chocolate.

Tommy [00:09:07]:
Triple fudge. Right. Or something like, you know, they have those triple chocolate. It's like chocolate on chocolate on chocolate. And I think about how when I put things, these things together, like, it could be anything. It could be. It could be just, you know, just add the same thing as, like a garnish or something. You know what I mean? And I think, like, you're in this fighting business, you're the president of the UFC, and you commit an act of abuse on your wife, which is just sort of zero tolerance in any other place.

Tommy [00:09:43]:
But now you're introducing, you know, you know, inflicting pain, fighting sort of where it's not appropriate, into a place where fighting is sort of the norm. And I wonder, you know, how. How that really, like, stacks up, you know, what kind of, you know, I guess this is a really interesting question. It's like. It's about behavior. How can you, how can you ensure that fighters are in the ring and they don't have these kinds of possibilities possibly, I don't know, aggressive, unfair, adverse, obverse of anger. You know, like Tyson bit someone. Zero.

Tommy [00:10:28]:
And where does that come from? Some kind of behavior. And that kind of. That violates the rules. But still it makes you think, you know, may not have been his wife, you know, made him so. And Tyson was done. Done. But why does the CEO or someone, you know, at that level, or in his case, he's president, why does he deserve to stay on?

Eldar [00:10:51]:
Yeah, that's a very good question. That's a very good question. And I think that he's going to be wrestling with that question soon, sooner or later, and the people that may be above him are going to be wrestling with that question as well. So we're going to try to play a thought experiment here on this current event that happened and see what's the desirable or the right punishment. Foreign acts such as? Such as this one for a person who represents a pretty big corporation. Right. Represents a lot of fighters, probably then represents also some fans as well. Because if fans are fans of UFC, for example, like me and Mike, are we like UFC? We like watching UFC, generally speaking.

Eldar [00:11:38]:
We also like Dana White.

Mike [00:11:41]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:11:41]:
Right.

Mike [00:11:42]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:11:42]:
Not saying we're friends with him, obviously, or not, or anything like that, and condone everything that he does, but, you know, he's the face of the company. We chime in, we tune in, and we'll listen to what he says. It's entertaining and stuff like that. But now, obviously, he's done something that we don't agree with. Right. So does that tarnish his image in our eyes? Does that tarnish the image in everybody's eyes, all the fans, all the fighters. Right. And the people above him as well as he.

Eldar [00:12:12]:
The person that we never knew. Right. It's not an image that he's been portraying this whole time or something else.

Mike [00:12:24]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:12:25]:
Right. Because we clearly say. Right. We clearly saw what he said. He said, this has never happened before. How do we know?

Tommy [00:12:31]:
Right, right.

Eldar [00:12:32]:
Well, how can we take your word for it that, you know, like, for example, I think that if it finally came out in the public, I think that maybe worse things were happening in the private, for example, because usually, you know, behind closed doors is where it starts and then it leaks out into the public. Right. So how do, how do we take his word is to say, like here, Dana, that was just a one time thing. You know, you're a first time offender, and you're right, it was just heat of the moment. You drank too much. Right. You blacked out. And do you have a drinking problem? And how do we ensure that you don't drink this much again than if you're putting it on the drinking? Which he's saying he's not.

Tommy [00:13:12]:
My brother worked with someone who I'm not going to name who at a club or something, he choked out someone who was in the business, you know? And I think that's, like, a career killer today, but somehow he's still going, you know, he's still working. Where do you draw the line? He went to court and all this stuff. To have that kind of reputation, you know, you really have to hone it.

Eldar [00:13:49]:
Yeah.

Tommy [00:13:50]:
And I think that's fury. It's not. I don't think. I think, like, will smith, he's still processing it. He still. It still hasn't. The dust hasn't settled for him. He doesn't know what's going on.

Eldar [00:14:02]:
Yeah, I agree with that. So what are you saying, Tom? Oh, Alex, maybe you could tell us what Tom is saying.

Tommy [00:14:09]:
Give it a stab.

Eldar [00:14:13]:
What do you think, Alex? Based on what we said, what are some of your thoughts? Just, how do you handle something like this?

Guest [00:14:20]:
That's the thing I'm just trying to figure out. Cause this isn't, like, a one time incidence, either. This has been happening repeatedly over the years with different celebrities and stuff, and it's just, like, correct. But even before then, it's always been happening. We're just holding them accountable now. We're trying, at least trying to. Yeah, so it's. I'm just saying, how did it get to this point where in the moment, it seems like an appropriate behavior until someone shows up, like, hey, that's not cool.

Guest [00:14:50]:
And you go, oh, yeah, yeah, I'm sorry. It wasn't cool. But then, like Mike said, like, the apology, when you hear it, you're just like, yeah, but are you really sorry? Or you're just saying it just to, like, have it, like, sweep under the rug? Cause before. Oh, before you had to do, like, a half ass apology, and then they're like, yeah, sure, go back to work. But now it's like, there's actual consequences to it, but depending on, like, what level you're at, and if you were to hold them accountable to that high standard and then you fuck up, they can hold you to that accountable 100%. So it's just like, like, it's almost like people are trying to play chess with it. It's like, are you doing it for the good of, like, what the justice is, like, is needed, or are you doing it for what you're hoping for?

Eldar [00:15:36]:
If I.

Guest [00:15:36]:
You mess up, are you just preparing for yourself? Like, if you screw up, then you'll have that, like, safety net later. You're like, oh, we didn't tarnish him that bad. So if I screw up, then it won't be that bad for me. That kind of thing. So I'm just thinking, is anyone actually trying to do justice? Because it's. You can say, I care for this as much as you want until the actual moment happens, and you're like, oh, it's time to show your metal, right? Put your money where your mouth is.

Eldar [00:16:10]:
That is exactly the problem I'm having. One thing. If we knew that Dana White already had aggressive tendencies, previous history of this type of behavior, and not advocating for something of this nature, but he's saying that he's been advocating for this for a very long time. He's an advocate. You're an advocate, she said. Right, right. You're constantly speaking against it. So what are we talking about? How can you then talk about the topic when you yourself haven't mastered it?

Mike [00:16:40]:
Yeah, it's interesting, right? It's definitely a very, uh, how interesting thing.

Eldar [00:16:46]:
I'm pretty sure he probably donates towards certain organizations for domestic abuse and stuff like that. Right?

Mike [00:16:52]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:16:53]:
Or will donate.

Mike [00:16:54]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:16:55]:
But. And, you know, he says he's this advocate for it. Right. But when it comes to, you know, his character got to that point, what is really going on behind the scenes?

Guest [00:17:07]:
It kind of reminds me of a, you know, about the try guys scandal that happened.

Mike [00:17:11]:
The who?

Guest [00:17:12]:
The. These four guys called the try guys. I don't really know them too much. I just know, like, two of them. But, like, they're, like, in a whole other thing. I follow. But apparently one of the guys, I think his name is Neddeenen, he's. He's known as, like, I love my wife.

Guest [00:17:26]:
My wife is, like, like, the best thing in the world. But they found out that he actually was cheating on his wife with one of his employees. That's, like, one of his underlings. So the. The rest of the guy, because there's four of them, the rest of the guys fired him and, like, took care of it pretty quickly because, like, that's not. There's a whole image. And also, like, you're the boss and you're with, like, an underling. That's inappropriate behavior.

Guest [00:17:51]:
So I feel like they took it very well. But the point for that is, like, like, with Dana, like, the whole, I'm advocating for this yada, yada, yada. But then here you are with Ned, like, oh, I love my wife. Yep. Love my wife. But yet you cheat on your wife.

Eldar [00:18:05]:
Then, like, what does it mean to love. Yeah, what does it mean to advocate? Yeah, what does it mean to love your wife?

Guest [00:18:11]:
Yeah, it's like, just. Was that just words for you? Was just like, an image just to, like, make you look better, but, like, behind the scenes, you didn't believe it at all.

Mike [00:18:18]:
Like, performance.

Eldar [00:18:20]:
And at the end of the day, what are they selling us?

Mike [00:18:22]:
But if we, like. Yeah, what you guys are saying. I get it. And I came back. Come back to last week episode on Anger. And the thing that reminds me is that he's sick. Right? He's sick. Clearly, he's sick.

Tommy [00:18:39]:
Who was this that was sick?

Mike [00:18:41]:
The guy, Dana White.

Tommy [00:18:43]:
Oh. Oh. Last week's episode reminded me.

Mike [00:18:46]:
No, last week's episode.

Eldar [00:18:47]:
Tom, we're not talking about a show right now. They know. White slapping his wife. This happened in reality, not in the Metaverse.

Tommy [00:18:53]:
No. Who is it that.

Mike [00:18:55]:
No, last week, somebody said that a person who's angry or is sick, that person is angry. He doesn't know any better. He's a sick person. So if we treat Dana as a sick person as well, what should be the punishment for a sick person? You know, is he just because he's the president of company, does he not get treated like a regular person, as a regular humanity? And should he not be subject to the same justice everybody? Or just because he's the CEO of this huge company, is he subjected to even more harsher, just justice?

Eldar [00:19:30]:
Well, to me, it sounds. It has to be. He has to be subjected to even more.

Mike [00:19:35]:
Why?

Eldar [00:19:37]:
Because he's a representation of something that's bigger.

Mike [00:19:40]:
Is it really bigger?

Eldar [00:19:41]:
Well, yeah, it's an image. Right. We see. We see UFC as Dana White, you know. Right. Representation. This is a huge corporation that they know. Why is the top.

Eldar [00:19:51]:
And then you have branches, employees, media, fans, fighters. Right. A lot of people. And this is the person that's representing.

Mike [00:20:01]:
Us at the top, and this is what he's representing. He's. Yeah. Like, also, part of the question that we were asking yesterday is that he's also. Dana White is an individual, but should he be judged based on his business and his corporate stuff should be punished harder because he's this image, but he's not saying, hey, I'm the representative. A domestic abuse company. I'm the president of it. And this is all like that.

Mike [00:20:28]:
He's a president of a company that's out there to do violence.

Eldar [00:20:31]:
Okay. Okay. So how about, what if he killed his wife? So he'll kill. He'll go to jail on his personal time, and then when it's time to work, nine to five, he'll come out and run the UFC.

Mike [00:20:41]:
Yeah, no, I get it, what you're saying.

Eldar [00:20:42]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:20:43]:
Maybe nothing. Yeah.

Eldar [00:20:45]:
Right. Like, when does it separate? No, I understand your argument. Right. Between the personal and the business. But when do we separate it? Yeah, when does one bleed onto the other?

Mike [00:20:58]:
I don't know. I'm not sure how justice plays into it, because we're trying to get. We're trying to find justice.

Eldar [00:21:03]:
Well, look, I think one thing, right. If we were to, let's just say, hide this thing, right, from a public eye, if it's happening in private and the wife never reports it, I'm not saying that's still right of him to do this.

Mike [00:21:17]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:21:18]:
However, it did bleed into the public eye. He's a public figure. Right.

Mike [00:21:22]:
How did it bleed in, though? He got caught.

Eldar [00:21:24]:
He got caught. There's a video at this level, I think that majority of who Dana white is. Is a public figure. Right? Majority. Right. Like, you would say that he's pretty big. It's a big celebrity in the sports world, and I think that UFC and being the president of UFC takes a lot. A lot of his time.

Eldar [00:21:44]:
Right. So. And he has to be in the public eye. So anything that he does in the public, he's going to be zoomed in on. Right. People are going to. People are going to watch. That's just what it comes with it.

Eldar [00:21:57]:
Right.

Mike [00:21:57]:
Yeah, no, I think. Yeah. You can't separate it, because at the end of the day, it's still the same. He's the same person who goes to work or the same person beats his wife on the job or off the job.

Eldar [00:22:06]:
No, that's definitely 100%, but, yeah.

Mike [00:22:09]:
Should have one more severe. I don't know.

Eldar [00:22:12]:
Well, think about it. Right. If you have domestic abuse on your record, for example. Right. You're probably gonna have a hard time getting a job.

Guest [00:22:19]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:22:20]:
Right. If you have. If you. This is a continuous thing, you're probably gonna go to jail in certain time. How do regular people, let's just say, who are not celebrities. Right. Are subjected to a little bit of different level of punishment and then those who are.

Mike [00:22:35]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:22:36]:
Higher.

Mike [00:22:37]:
Yeah. I think celebrities do get a more pass. You're saying.

Eldar [00:22:40]:
I'm assuming that. I'm assuming that they have the, you know, means to get a better attorney. They have more connections in the. In the.

Mike [00:22:48]:
I think. I think so. I think, yes. Society gave those celebrities a pass a lot on a lot of things for a long time because they were like celebrities. The stuff that was like, you know, questionable. Questionable.

Eldar [00:23:01]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:23:01]:
Behavior was like, oh, well, he's such a great singer, a great actor. Like, we all love him so much. It's an isolated incident. Is a one off thing, you know, like, I feel like, yeah, there is a lot of that in the celebrities because we. We believe that we should admire them because they're celebrities. We. A lot of people bought into that.

Eldar [00:23:19]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:23:19]:
And I think that gives us, like, oh, well, he's, you know, celebrity. He can do this. Like, yeah, you know, we can't do it. He can't either. But it's not his back. He's a celebrity and we really look up to him, like, you know, so that's.

Eldar [00:23:31]:
That's the problem.

Mike [00:23:31]:
That's the problem. The value. The value of a celebrity has been, you know, placed high, and now it's being more kind of like if he.

Eldar [00:23:40]:
Came potentially, if he was showered with society's gifts. Right. Let's just say right now that he's esteemed by the. The population. And the gifts are obviously in the form of fame, money, stability, being esteemed everywhere he goes, vip treatments and everything else. You, to some degree, are taking advantage or at least benefiting. You are the benefactor from the society and the population. So you almost subject yourself then to be judged by the many, by those who are actually putting you up there as well.

Eldar [00:24:22]:
So it almost comes with the territory, bro.

Mike [00:24:26]:
Yeah, but it's a flawed system, though.

Eldar [00:24:29]:
Ah, yeah. I don't doubt it. Yeah, it is.

Mike [00:24:33]:
But. But if it's. If flawed that we can't. We can't apply justice to flawed things. We should apply justice as justice is.

Eldar [00:24:41]:
I agree with you. No, I think we still need to find out a way to define what would be the most fair punishment in this case. Right. For someone of this stature. Right.

Mike [00:24:50]:
Yeah.

Guest [00:24:51]:
Isn't justice supposed to be blind, though?

Eldar [00:24:54]:
It is blind, yes. Yeah.

Guest [00:24:56]:
We just ignore the fact that he's a celebrity.

Mike [00:24:59]:
That's what it will be.

Guest [00:25:00]:
Take it as what it is, case by case.

Mike [00:25:03]:
I don't think. I don't think justice has a face like justice is the same who. No matter who you are.

Eldar [00:25:08]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:25:09]:
Justice itself is the same. It just the. The details of how it's played out. But justice is justice. It's not.

Eldar [00:25:16]:
Yeah, but.

Mike [00:25:17]:
But then you marry person to person.

Eldar [00:25:18]:
It is. I think it has to be custom built.

Mike [00:25:21]:
It.

Eldar [00:25:21]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:25:21]:
The. Punish. The justice. The act.

Eldar [00:25:23]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:25:24]:
Like the things that justice brings with it.

Eldar [00:25:25]:
Yes. Yeah. So you know, what we're saying is that you can't just punish him just for the act. You have to punish him for the act of who he is because of the influence that he carries. And he has the moral obligation, responsibility to the masses.

Guest [00:25:40]:
Okay. Yeah.

Eldar [00:25:42]:
Right. Like, he's not some Joe schmo that you've never heard of, is not representing a lot of the world. You know what I mean? He is that guy.

Mike [00:25:50]:
So you're saying justice is, would be for him to devote his life towards his cause?

Eldar [00:25:55]:
I'm not saying that, but I like.

Mike [00:25:56]:
The way, I like what you're doing with it.

Eldar [00:25:58]:
That might.

Mike [00:25:58]:
Because he has such a big platform. He has to do. He has to advocate for it.

Eldar [00:26:03]:
Well, no, he's saying that he advocates for it.

Mike [00:26:06]:
No, no much, but actually down.

Eldar [00:26:07]:
So now. Yeah, I think that. Yeah, I think that the justice would be to take his words that he said before. Right. And find out what's, what were the flaws in those words that he's mentioned. Like you said with the I love my wife, but I'm cheating on the side.

Guest [00:26:21]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:26:21]:
Right. You have to take those words and see, like, okay, cool. Explain to me what love means. Loving your wife means. Let's see this. Explain to me what you mean when you advocate against domestic abuse, domestic violence. Show me how that looks. Explain to me and make me understand what that is.

Eldar [00:26:41]:
And if you start going down that rabbit hole, I think you'll come to find out that Dana white, the way he lives his life or the way he carries himself, to put himself in that type of position, has tendencies, has risk factors, has red flags that are going to lead him to have this type of behavior.

Mike [00:27:02]:
Yeah. And then the question to me arises, how do you instill a value into a person that does not have that value?

Eldar [00:27:11]:
Well, I think that's a very good question.

Mike [00:27:14]:
That's why I asked it.

Eldar [00:27:16]:
I think this is the beginning. At the beginning of it, you have to kind of first probably mess up. Right. And this, in his case, which he did, to really then devote himself, like you said, probably to really find out what is it that he actually saying and doing, and why is he saying one thing and doing another? Why is he a risk factor?

Mike [00:27:38]:
Tommy, miss the whole podcast over going home?

Guest [00:27:42]:
I think it's kind of like when a child messed up, how you would teach him.

Mike [00:27:47]:
So instill in that person the values that he's lacking that resulted in his behavior.

Eldar [00:27:54]:
Okay, go ahead. Expand on that child thing.

Mike [00:27:58]:
Sorry, I didn't hear what you said.

Guest [00:28:00]:
Cause I was thinking when you said, like, how would you steal the values if they mess up? I'm like, oh, kind of like with the child, like, say, like there's a kid running around the house. You keep telling them to stop running around the house, and they're like, oh, yeah, I'll be careful. I'll be careful. And yet, all the while, they're not being careful. They trip or they bump into a table, which knocks down your fancy vase. And now the kid's just like, oh, I'm sorry. It's like, but are you really sorry? So what you do is you make the child clean up the vase, and you teach them from there, like, x, y, and z, like, why you don't run around or why you have to be extra careful and everything. So then next time, the child's like, oh, this is why I.

Guest [00:28:43]:
Because they. They have the foresight now. Because they're like, oh, it's not so bad. There's no, like, real consequences to my actions until there actually is.

Eldar [00:28:52]:
Yeah, but will that actually make them value? Yeah, being careful, they might associate punishment, like, oh, man, this is gonna take me half an hour to clean up now, and I really want to play my video games. The punishment might deter them, right. From running amok again. But will it actually instill a value of being careful around the house if.

Mike [00:29:15]:
That'S actual value that's to be had, though, too.

Eldar [00:29:18]:
Yeah, that's what we want to teach him. Right? Let's just say the kid, right. Because the mom sees that he's running around like crazy. Soon or later, something's gonna get broken. A window, a vase. Right. Or whatever it is, right. Fridge, tv.

Eldar [00:29:30]:
Right. So she wants to instill in him the value of, hey, just be careful. I mean, value of be careful. Yeah.

Mike [00:29:37]:
Is that a value, or is it just a flawed logic that parents think that, oh, you should teach your kid to be careful? Like, what's this? What's the logic here?

Eldar [00:29:44]:
The logic here is to, you want to. You want to explain to the kid that this type of behavior usually leads to this type of consequence.

Mike [00:29:51]:
Yeah, but what's wrong with the kid running around being a kid because it.

Eldar [00:29:55]:
Leads to that type of consequence.

Mike [00:29:57]:
Things get broken.

Eldar [00:29:58]:
Things get broken and you get hurt. You get hurt, too. You fall, the vase. The vase falls on the ground, you stepped on it, and now you're bleeding.

Guest [00:30:08]:
Your feet's all cut up.

Mike [00:30:09]:
I can't remember what happens if you're. If you're your. Your parents all the time, they tell you, don't do this.

Eldar [00:30:15]:
Mm hmm.

Mike [00:30:15]:
And then you're 40 years old, and you're scared of the world.

Eldar [00:30:21]:
You can definitely ruin somebody. Yeah.

Mike [00:30:24]:
What? Like, yeah, I'm not. I don't. I'm not sure. Like, what I value to what I'm not sure. I guess the value what?

Eldar [00:30:31]:
How about valuing your parents words and listening to them? Respect. How about respect?

Mike [00:30:39]:
But should you respect something if it's not true?

Eldar [00:30:43]:
Well, then you're saying that the parents are not communicating properly.

Mike [00:30:46]:
I'm saying that the parents might not be valuing the right thing or have the time to actually instill the right value in the kid. Like, if the kid broke the thing, and then you're like, okay, here. Clean it up and go get. Here's your nintendo. Go play. What message that sending, you know, is that I actually item teaching the kid about that item and its value. Is that actual. An actual value, or is it something that society made of? Like, oh, yeah.

Mike [00:31:13]:
Well, don't run around. Don't make a mess. Don't break anything.

Eldar [00:31:15]:
Like, yeah, what's the.

Mike [00:31:17]:
I don't know how to.

Eldar [00:31:19]:
I think the value there is the ability to listen. Right. And trust your parents. Right. In that case, yeah. Right. Because your parents has the foresight to see that if you run around in this type of manner, sooner or later, something's gonna happen, because the parent has experienced past experience with these types of things happening based on their observation of probability.

Tommy [00:31:38]:
Right.

Eldar [00:31:39]:
Of that type of thing happening. So you would want to have a kid who is attentive to you and listening to you and understanding that. Look, I trust my mom and my dad because most of the time, when they say something, it does happen. They're the predictors of events that are not so pleasant. Last time, they told me about something that happened, and I hurt myself, and I don't like it. Therefore, today, I'm not gonna run around and break something, and that's gonna happen. So the value of number one listening, critical thinking, respect, and trust are all those things that need to be embodied in the kidde for them to be wholesome. Yeah.

Eldar [00:32:18]:
You do agree?

Mike [00:32:19]:
Yeah. I don't know.

Eldar [00:32:22]:
Hmm.

Mike [00:32:23]:
I'm not sure.

Eldar [00:32:23]:
How do we get here? We have to teach Dana white the actual value behind domestic abuse or not having a good relationship.

Mike [00:32:34]:
The value of nonviolence.

Eldar [00:32:36]:
Well, then.

Mike [00:32:37]:
Or the value of expressing yourself without physical.

Eldar [00:32:40]:
Well, it sounds like Dana white probably has, uh, marital marriage problems. Yeah. Right. If. If. Right. Let's just say. Okay, the scenario was that she hit him first.

Eldar [00:32:51]:
All right. Um, I mean, obviously, you can track back as to say that he probably did something that she. Or said something that she did not like.

Guest [00:33:03]:
It looked like it. She looks like she was in the zone or something. Like she was upset. Yes.

Eldar [00:33:08]:
It was upset with him. And then he said something if he got the slap.

Mike [00:33:10]:
Mm hmm.

Eldar [00:33:11]:
That means she's upset with him. That's clear. Whatever he did.

Mike [00:33:15]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:33:15]:
So I'm not gonna say that he did something wrong, whatever he was doing, because I don't know what he did.

Mike [00:33:21]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:33:23]:
However, I do see that because. Because of the fact that he's in this predicament where this snowballs the way he did, I'd say that there is problems in the marriage and some level of communication is flawed. I broken some. There's issues there. Right. So I'm not sure if we're teaching Dana White the value of non violence. I think we have to teach Dana white the value of love.

Guest [00:33:48]:
Better ways of expressing.

Eldar [00:33:50]:
Right.

Mike [00:33:50]:
Communication.

Eldar [00:33:52]:
Right. Yeah. Well, she said, hey, this guy loves his wife and cheats on her. I don't need you to tell me that you are against domestic violence if you don't understand the concept of love. Because if you understood the concept of love. I know you don't value domestic violence. I know that the prerequisite is knowing how to love.

Mike [00:34:11]:
Yeah, but then what you're saying is that you, when you make that statement that he needs to teach him love, the way that I hear it is that you need to basically completely change his identity.

Eldar [00:34:23]:
100%.

Mike [00:34:24]:
He needs to quit life.

Eldar [00:34:25]:
Well, 100%. Well, that's justice. Right? You give the person what they need.

Mike [00:34:34]:
Yeah. I guess everybody needs that.

Eldar [00:34:37]:
He's lacking. Right. He's clearly lacking an understanding of the concept of domestic abuse, why it happens in the first place, what's going on there. Right. Why. Why is he against it right here? I don't think he put enough thought into it to really understand what is actually going on here. So Dana White should never speak about domestic abuse ever again, ever in his life. He needs to be talking about love.

Eldar [00:35:03]:
He needs to talk about how he fixed his marriage problems, his communication, his family. Right. He said on the interview, he said, the most important thing is my family. Now. My kids are looking down on us with this type of behavior. They're very disappointed with me. And one of the kids is, like, 21 or 22. So he has the ability to think, this kid.

Mike [00:35:23]:
Yeah. Potentially.

Eldar [00:35:24]:
Potentially. Right. Yeah. So we clearly see what Dana, if Dana White is lacking in this type of knowledge, then we can see that the trajectory of his marriage is gonna play out the way it plays out. He's hiding behind. Yeah. We've been together for 40 years, or whatever it is. 25 years.

Eldar [00:35:46]:
But how have you been with her for 25 years?

Mike [00:35:51]:
How the devils in the details with that thing. Tom loves these kind of things.

Eldar [00:35:55]:
We clearly see. We clearly see. Is it that we just saw a random act of blackout being drunk, or we seen spillage from inside the home?

Guest [00:36:07]:
I don't think it's something a thousand times, but you could be doing it wrong a thousand times.

Eldar [00:36:11]:
That's right.

Mike [00:36:12]:
I I don't think it's a one off incident.

Tommy [00:36:14]:
I feel like it's, you know, part of the. You know, Mike, you say to live a good life, you want to have all those parts together, like, the values, the good things, you know? And if you have, you. What is it you're saying? It doesn't matter.

Mike [00:36:29]:
In order to have a good life, you gotta earn a good life.

Tommy [00:36:31]:
It's. It's.

Mike [00:36:32]:
All those things have to line up.

Tommy [00:36:33]:
Okay, how about I use a real life exam for me?

Mike [00:36:35]:
Oh, great.

Tommy [00:36:36]:
Senior year, I'm 18. Whoo. I'm getting a little wild.

Eldar [00:36:41]:
Oh, yeah.

Tommy [00:36:42]:
Might be doing drugs. Yeah, doing drugs.

Eldar [00:36:45]:
Wait. Might be doing drugs and doing drugs is two different things.

Mike [00:36:48]:
Tom, Tom, you're just already.

Eldar [00:36:50]:
Things are blurred. Got it, got it. Did you bring the handcuffs? Send you straight to burn county.

Tommy [00:36:57]:
Well, that's, you know, it was gonna be. I was gonna be expelled. So either do this piss test, you know, go to rehab, we guarantee. You know, I take it. I fail. That's it. When I go to rehab, they tell me I have the highest crack levels they've ever seen.

Mike [00:37:16]:
Is this real or this is fake?

Tommy [00:37:17]:
This is the real deal.

Mike [00:37:18]:
Oh, wow. Yeah.

Eldar [00:37:19]:
The highest I've ever seen.

Tommy [00:37:20]:
The highest.

Eldar [00:37:21]:
Whoa.

Tommy [00:37:24]:
Now, when I'm faced with the ultimatum, either you take this test or you get expelled. I refuse both options. I say, like, there's no way. I just had it. I just got a job. I was working at the mall. I don't. I'm denying this.

Tommy [00:37:43]:
I'm fine.

Mike [00:37:45]:
But what are you.

Eldar [00:37:46]:
There's.

Tommy [00:37:47]:
That. There's just, like, no way that I'm submitting to this because people are suspecting me, you know? And my mom came in, and now the stakes are raised. You know, she's. She's upset, obviously.

Mike [00:38:03]:
Where'd she come in? Into the school.

Tommy [00:38:04]:
Yeah. They called her in.

Mike [00:38:05]:
High school or the college?

Tommy [00:38:06]:
High school. Senior year. High school.

Eldar [00:38:09]:
Okay.

Tommy [00:38:10]:
Still not the only college. And. And I felt it. I said this thing, you know, basically said, I have this job. I'm. There's no way I can quit it.

Eldar [00:38:22]:
How important was the job?

Tommy [00:38:24]:
That's what was holding me up, right? Yeah.

Eldar [00:38:26]:
And dedicated to your craft, like Dana white.

Tommy [00:38:30]:
And I'm bait.

Eldar [00:38:31]:
And.

Tommy [00:38:31]:
Yes, that's. That's what I'm talking about. That's exactly what I'm saying.

Mike [00:38:34]:
Okay. You see that?

Eldar [00:38:37]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:38:37]:
I didn't get any of it.

Eldar [00:38:38]:
Well, no, he's comparing. Right? He said, hey, look, I know I did the crime, but I can't. I just can't take the fault here. I'm committed to my job. They know why it said, hey, wow, I'm not gonna suffer. I could have quit 2016. I have plenty of money. I have a billion dollars in my pocket.

Eldar [00:38:54]:
I'm doing this for the fighters. The fighters are gonna suffer. The fans are gonna suffer. That's his cop out.

Mike [00:39:00]:
Yeah.

Tommy [00:39:00]:
So he's trying to. Is what you said. Sorry, I don't think I understood that. He's trying to stay on.

Eldar [00:39:08]:
Yeah, he's trying to stay on.

Tommy [00:39:09]:
I think. I think he's doing it maybe in a selfish way, but for subconscious reasons, because of his family, I think that he's probably staking some. Some truth still in what his family means to him. Like his wife.

Eldar [00:39:24]:
No, I think. I think that if you. If you put your family first.

Tommy [00:39:28]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:39:28]:
First.

Mike [00:39:29]:
Okay.

Eldar [00:39:30]:
If you put your family first, everything else goes second. It's just impossible for two things to be first. Sounds to me here, UFC might be first.

Mike [00:39:40]:
Okay.

Eldar [00:39:40]:
And the family might be second. Okay. Because if you found out. Right. Hey, I just slapped my wife. I slapped the mom of my kids. My kids upset. My wife is upset.

Eldar [00:39:52]:
I'm upset. Right? Where's the focus go? I have a family problems.

Mike [00:39:58]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:39:59]:
If I value my family. I love my family, is what I'm saying. This is the most important thing for me. You step off, you say, you know what? I need time off. I need a break. I need to figure this thing out. What is happening? What is happening in my marriage, my relationship with my kids, and my family matters.

Mike [00:40:19]:
He is just doing it. He's putting on an image. I mean, his family is not first.

Eldar [00:40:26]:
Well, he's saying it is.

Mike [00:40:27]:
You can say what you want, but everything's pointed otherwise, if you're. If you just did this, see what he just did? And you say, you have huge problems at home. You need to fix it. You should not be talking about wanting to stay on. You should be wanting to fix the family if that's your priority.

Eldar [00:40:42]:
Why can't he do both? Why can't he do both? Why can't he be Dana White, the UFC president? Why can't he just, you know, decide?

Mike [00:40:50]:
Because Dana White, the UFC president, is a person who already doesn't have a good relationship with his family. What he's saying to us is, b's, he runs from his family to the job. My opinion, but you can quote me on it.

Eldar [00:41:03]:
Okay, we'll try to quote you on it. Yeah. I think.

Tommy [00:41:06]:
I think it has probably to do with a level of responsibility as being a public figure, which means, I think, that his family's not just. He puts his family first, let's say, but his family is also required to play the role of that image that he insists or he demands that from them, because it's just a matter of their. You know what I mean? It's like an altruistic thing. Yes, we're having problems. Here's the public statement. We're all like family now. You know what I mean? We're all just trying to come together. He's speaking this truth, which is kind of a lie.

Tommy [00:41:46]:
The truth is his family might be crumbling.

Mike [00:41:49]:
That's exactly how I feel that the family is. They're just together. But I'm not sure if there's still.

Tommy [00:41:55]:
Love and who would want to live like that?

Eldar [00:41:58]:
Whoa, wait a second. Wait a sec. I think there's plenty of people who are willing to live like that.

Mike [00:42:03]:
Yeah. I mean, plenty of people are living like that. You know?

Eldar [00:42:06]:
Plenty of people are living like that. Tom. What I'm saying is that what he said is like, hey, we talked him. I talked to my wife. I apologized. We apologize to each other. She accepted my apology. We're gonna be strong from it.

Eldar [00:42:17]:
We're gonna move on. There might be other stakes involved. Right. The type of life that they live, the benefits from this life, really.

Tommy [00:42:30]:
I immediately think, like, well, maybe that's her. The word I'm looking for is maybe that's just the way that she's sort of domesticated. Is she working? She is. She. Does she have a public role? Is she a public figure?

Mike [00:42:48]:
Not sure.

Eldar [00:42:48]:
Not sure. Probably not.

Mike [00:42:51]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:42:51]:
Yeah. I never heard of it.

Mike [00:42:53]:
Never even saw her. Yeah.

Eldar [00:42:56]:
Up until. Yeah. Up until now.

Mike [00:42:57]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:42:58]:
Wow.

Tommy [00:42:59]:
I don't watch UFC as much as.

Mike [00:43:03]:
Yeah, yeah. I don't think my understanding of the words that were used. I love my wife. I love my kids. I'm not sure how you can do that. Do what he did and then continue to want to keep doing that.

Eldar [00:43:20]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:43:21]:
We have maybe different definitions of love.

Eldar [00:43:23]:
I think a lot of times we do, you know? I think a lot of times we do. Right. We can love our wife and cheat on. Cheat on them at the same time.

Mike [00:43:29]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:43:29]:
Like this guy.

Tommy [00:43:30]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:43:31]:
He clearly has a different definition.

Mike [00:43:32]:
Mm hmm.

Eldar [00:43:33]:
Right. Yeah. What does that mean? What does it mean wife.

Mike [00:43:36]:
You can't. If you love your wife. The way actually love is.

Eldar [00:43:39]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:43:40]:
The way you define love.

Eldar [00:43:41]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:43:41]:
The way love would be defined.

Tommy [00:43:43]:
Yapping to YouTube like that?

Mike [00:43:46]:
Yeah.

Tommy [00:43:47]:
Is that possible?

Eldar [00:43:48]:
Well, yeah. I don't know. I don't know. Yeah, you guys tell me. I'm not sure. That's the thing. He's saying he loves his wife. He loves his kids.

Eldar [00:43:54]:
That's the priority number one for them, for him. This never happened before. This is a one time incident. A lot of alcohol was involved. So then does he have a drinking problem, and how does he ensure himself, his wife, his kids, and now the public that he won't go that far with alcohol? Is he gonna stop drinking? Why? Keep talking for him, Mike.

Mike [00:44:20]:
He's not clearing my throat.

Eldar [00:44:22]:
Okay. Is he gonna stop drinking? If that's one of the problems? If that's what's a trigger, right. That this happened and alcohol is one of the triggers, and this happens when he's inebriated, will he stop drinking?

Tommy [00:44:36]:
What if that's what he's telling us? But what if that's what he's telling UFC fans and the people watch this, but framing it in a way of, like, a family issue, you know?

Eldar [00:44:50]:
Well, you saw the TMZ guy. He asked him a question. Hey, Dana White. We heard that there was a lot of liquor was flowing in this particular mexican club. He's like, liquor was definitely flowing, but I don't want it to be the.

Mike [00:45:03]:
Excuse that's not trying to take some responsibility there, but I'm not sure if you need that. He. I think he's a very good Persona. He's a very good.

Eldar [00:45:15]:
Huh? What does that mean? Persona was good. Very good Persona.

Mike [00:45:17]:
Like, he knows what to say.

Eldar [00:45:19]:
Okay. Yeah. To the world, to the public.

Mike [00:45:22]:
Yeah. He knows what people want to hear. Otherwise, he wouldn't be. Dana White.

Eldar [00:45:26]:
Yeah. He's a figure.

Mike [00:45:28]:
He's. He creates. He created this huge brand.

Eldar [00:45:30]:
He talks a lot.

Mike [00:45:31]:
Talks a lot.

Eldar [00:45:32]:
That's right.

Mike [00:45:32]:
He gets interviewed on press conferences, you know, like, he's a big person, I think, you know, he didn't get this way by, you know, not knowing how to speak in particular ways and say certain things that people want to hear.

Eldar [00:45:46]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:45:47]:
You know, so I think he said what he. What he needed to say. He's just saying what people want to hear, which is. Oh, yeah, I can't believe I'll call. He's trying to take responsibility for himself, but he does. I don't think he generally means that, because if he were to say that I'm not sure if he has even idea what it means to take responsibility on himself from this, you know, which means if. Which is justice should be served, right?

Eldar [00:46:18]:
Mm hmm.

Mike [00:46:19]:
Which means that he should go find out what love is. And that's huge. Like, that's a deep, deep hole that is gonna take your whole life to.

Eldar [00:46:29]:
His wife's not happy with him. She slaps him in the face. Something he's doing, something's going on between them two that resorts in the slapping. And we're not saying that the way the wife did is good either. I don't think that's a good way of communication. As we talked about anger. Right. Anger is not a good form, for sure.

Tommy [00:46:46]:
Over the top, they're not communicating.

Eldar [00:46:48]:
But she's under the impression that, I'm gonna snap my husband out of this. Whatever he's out of, I'm gonna slap this out of him so you can wake up.

Tommy [00:46:58]:
And it happens in, like, a kind of funny place at the club, too.

Eldar [00:47:02]:
Like, what is she. What is she thinking also, right. Why does she think that this is a good form of communication with her husband? This is a normal routine to get your husband back on track by slapping him in his face. Right.

Tommy [00:47:17]:
It also puts people, I think, in an uncomfortable position, because the spousal abuse thing, in one way, it could be one spouse beats on the other, the other spouse is sort of submissive.

Eldar [00:47:32]:
Right.

Tommy [00:47:33]:
Or it could be that both spouses are hitting on. Hitting each other wherever. It's like, well, who committed the abuse first?

Eldar [00:47:40]:
Yeah.

Tommy [00:47:41]:
And, you know, there's that sort of accepted norm where men beating on women is sort of considered unacceptable. Amoral here is absolutely amoral.

Eldar [00:47:54]:
100%. 100%.

Tommy [00:47:56]:
And I think I had to watch this in this movie called the Breakup for communications. Vince Vaughn, Jennifer Aniston, and the two of them, they fall in love at first. Right. And what happens is they start exhibiting these sort of competitive behaviors where things just build up and build up and get worse. And so, you know, this one. This one thing that happens is the pool table that he wanted that she refused to have until they got a bigger apartment. He gets. She comes home one day to find him and all of his friends playing pool.

Tommy [00:48:34]:
Or one morning, he's a late sleeper. Right. Her brother and his choir club are there. And these things happen on the low because they want to best each other. They want the other one to pay, to be disciplined or to suffer for whatever happened before. And so there's a lot of, like, jealousy playing, and that kind of stuff. The whole thing ends with them breaking up, you know, and learning their lesson from. From the struggle and seeing each other one day in the street.

Tommy [00:49:08]:
That's the whole movie right there. Like, I think that the, like, even in relationships, you have these highs and lows where you have to. Where we ought to, like, know, figure things out, and things may not be so good. Like Bill Gates and Melinda Gates. I read a book by Melinda Gates. She explains in the book, this was back when they were still married, that they had, like, one year that was really bad in which he was. He neglected her. She didn't mention what happened, but I think it was infidelity, or it was like, you know, whatchamacallit, when you're not faithful? They were being unfaithful, cheating.

Tommy [00:49:53]:
Cheating. Yeah, he was. I think he was cheating. Huh.

Guest [00:49:56]:
Had an affair.

Tommy [00:49:56]:
Yes, I think he had. I think he had multiple affairs or something like that. But still, that needs sort of time in order for it to be, like, fixed or, like, solved. Like, the problem needs to be identified. I don't know if he's identified the problem. I'm not sure.

Eldar [00:50:16]:
Well, yeah, it's hard to call this because we don't know the problem. Right? Like I said, she slapped him first. Right. She's also maybe other impression, like I said, that she can communicate with him this way. He might be doing something wrong, but this is the way she communicates. And I'm not saying that. I don't know, maybe the society views men hitting women the way he did as wrong, and that should never happen. But I also view that women should not be hitting men either.

Eldar [00:50:41]:
I mean, this is double standard here, right? Like, it's not in a loving relationship. I think this is unacceptable drink. This is unacceptable behavior. Right?

Mike [00:50:51]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:50:52]:
This is unacceptable behaviors.

Mike [00:50:53]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:50:54]:
Right?

Mike [00:50:54]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:50:56]:
However, however, why don't we spin this this way where like, hey, they've been together for a very long time. They understand this about one another. They do drink occasionally, and they like it. And with that, sometimes a couple of slaps will be, you know, handed out. Why can't we just be adults and say, you know what? I'm in a relationship here with you. You know, let's just say you, Alex and Tommy, in a relationship, you guys are consenting adults. You guys like to drink once in a while, and you understand that when you're sober, once in a while, when you guys drink, get a little aggressive. I think it's sooner or later.

Eldar [00:51:28]:
Sooner or later, somebody's gonna slap somebody and somebody else is gonna slap somebody back. But you guys agreed that it's a fair game. Is that right or wrong? Yeah.

Guest [00:51:36]:
I mean, if you agreed beforehand, like.

Eldar [00:51:38]:
I've seen, so why can't Dana white just say, you know what, yeah, we did fix this up. We patched this up, and this kind of, like, this is. This is our dynamic. Wow. I'm an adult.

Tommy [00:51:48]:
Good question.

Eldar [00:51:48]:
She's an adult. We slap each other once in a while. We're okay with this.

Guest [00:51:52]:
Teach your own.

Tommy [00:51:54]:
Well, you know what? I think a loss of control itself, like, you know, some people like it. Are they resilient because they have three kids? Like, what in the f. I don't.

Eldar [00:52:05]:
Know about that question. I'm saying, like, why not? You're consenting adult. Once in a while, you get a slap. I see there's people out there who are now. Right, making money by getting slapped in the face and getting knocked out.

Tommy [00:52:15]:
I think there's probably, like, an underlying, you know, just kind of behavioral or, you know, cognitive thing going on that we probably won't ever be exposed to. And, you know, it's probably atypical, whatever it is, drinking and getting aggressive and stuff. Like, I was just gonna say, I saw this outside some guy's house once. His brother, his older brother pulling his girlfriend by the hair right out on River Road.

Eldar [00:52:45]:
And she's like, I like this, so don't worry.

Tommy [00:52:48]:
Yelling loudly and, you know, just probably over cheating or texting or something. It's terrifying. And it's kind of shocking. If you see the video, there's not much interference.

Eldar [00:53:02]:
Why?

Tommy [00:53:04]:
I think it's probably because of their typical nature. That's how they are. Think about it, rich. And, I don't know, you have that unbelievable Russian famous, like, yeah, they may.

Eldar [00:53:19]:
Be on edge, right? They may be on edge. They got a lot of problems in their life that they need to solve.

Tommy [00:53:24]:
I personally don't know how to react. If I saw any one of us beating on women, I don't know how to react. Yeah, you beat on your girlfriend, you beat on your wife, you beat on your significant other. I don't know how it reacts. Yeah, I know that. I would be probably stunned, for sure.

Eldar [00:53:44]:
Well, that's why the community right now is stunned, because an individual, right, kept saying that he's against this, he advocated against this. He's constantly talked about it. But then he goes and hits his wife on public television now, right? It's everywhere. And now he's like, oh, I'm human, too. Give me a pass. Yeah, it happens. He asked for this yeah, he did say that. Oh, are you all human? We make cards.

Tommy [00:54:09]:
That's played.

Eldar [00:54:10]:
We're all humans who make mistakes.

Tommy [00:54:11]:
That's like a normal cop out, isn't it? It's cop out.

Eldar [00:54:13]:
Isn't that 100%.

Tommy [00:54:14]:
We're human.

Eldar [00:54:15]:
We're human. Yeah.

Tommy [00:54:16]:
Yeah, but that's specific saying that.

Mike [00:54:18]:
Hey, actually, don't take it easy on me. Don't. Don't do justice to me.

Eldar [00:54:22]:
Yeah. Cause he's saying that, hey, like, I'm also. You guys are also human. And you guys gonna have your own fault as well. So what's the appropriate punishment for Dana White? Guys, make some suggestions. I've been talking about, remember, keep in mind, right. We don't know the background. Maybe she.

Eldar [00:54:37]:
Maybe she abuses him at home. Maybe he's the one who's getting abused here. Right. She's probably threatening him mentally and physically at home. We don't. We don't know what's going on. He says that he has a loving, caring family. He cares for them and loves them, and that things happen.

Eldar [00:54:55]:
Keep that in mind. And that he does still advocate against domestic abuse and domestic violence. Why can't we just give him a pass?

Guest [00:55:00]:
Because then everyone would want to pass.

Eldar [00:55:03]:
We are human, Alexe. We're all human.

Guest [00:55:05]:
Yeah, but what does that mean anyways? People always like to throw it around, we're human. But they use it to, like, oh, we're human. We're flawed, or, we're humans. We should be better than our animal instincts.

Eldar [00:55:15]:
So why can't we just go to church on Sunday? Oh, hold on.

Tommy [00:55:18]:
Alex said animal instincts here. There's something very true here. That kind of behavior is not rational. I don't think it's not, you know?

Eldar [00:55:27]:
Sure. So then you're saying that we're human, but sometimes we're animal.

Guest [00:55:33]:
Oh, I just mean, like, when people throw it around, there's like, oh, I did something bad. We're flawed people. But then they'd use the same phrase, we're human. When we're like, oh, we're supposed to be, like, above it all. Like, above our flaws. We're supposed to be like this.

Eldar [00:55:47]:
So you don't like the hypocrisy? Yeah, I agree with you.

Guest [00:55:52]:
Cause, like, oh, if we're humans and, like, yeah, then you should be held accountable.

Eldar [00:55:55]:
Accountable. You reason.

Guest [00:55:57]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:55:57]:
You can think. Right. You can deduce. Yeah.

Guest [00:56:01]:
Better cognitive skills. Like, you should.

Eldar [00:56:03]:
So what's going on with you? Yeah, it sounds like you need to be treated like an animal, then. Yeah. Right.

Guest [00:56:07]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:56:09]:
If sometimes you have episodes of animalistic behavior. You ought to be treated as such.

Tommy [00:56:14]:
Right? What better place to be a wolf, right?

Eldar [00:56:17]:
Sheep's clothing in a public eye. And a lot of them are right.

Mike [00:56:23]:
We're trying to get to the. What justice is, not what this like, you know.

Eldar [00:56:27]:
Well, we try to get to what justice should be for Dana White in this particular example, because what do you.

Mike [00:56:33]:
Guys think justice is like? Do you guys agree that it should. That the person should learn?

Eldar [00:56:39]:
I think I agree with you.

Mike [00:56:42]:
And if you.

Eldar [00:56:43]:
I agree with you.

Mike [00:56:44]:
If somebody does justice to you, and in 510 years, would you be thankful to that person after you? Because the beginning, the judges are going to feel painful.

Eldar [00:56:53]:
100% I agree. What you're doing, what you're saying is this. Look, Dana White, in this form, hits his wife. This is the form that he himself doesn't agree with. He'd like to fix this. Correct. He's raising his hand and saying, hey, I'm not going to do this anymore. I'm going to do whatever it takes for this not to happen again.

Eldar [00:57:12]:
The only way for this not to happen again is to remove that animalistic behavior that he has inside of him. How do you do it? I think through education, like Mike said, through learning to learning and then discovering and giving birth to a new identity. The Dana White who actually understands what love is, what a good relationship is, and which he applies to his family unit. So Dana White will no longer be Dana White. Dana White is going to be Dana White version 2.0, who understands love, and this domestic shit will never touch his family.

Tommy [00:57:47]:
That's an interesting point of view, man. I really find that interesting. Something really stands out to me about just being non rational, you know, not going in the direction of learning from, you know, does he understand really what learning is at this point?

Eldar [00:58:02]:
So that's a different question. The next thing is, how do you ensure that. Yeah, that's what he's saying. How do you ensure that he learns? How do you ensure that that which we just said, hey, Dana White, uh, we don't want you to quit UFC. We don't want you to get a fine. We want you to learn.

Mike [00:58:20]:
You have to put him in a jail, but not an actual jail, but a mental jail.

Eldar [00:58:25]:
How do you do that? How do you do that?

Mike [00:58:26]:
Push him off the ledge, deep dive into learning about how this person right.

Eldar [00:58:34]:
Here is in public eye. Yeah, we don't have a direct contact. Alex can't sit down with Dana White right now, for example. You know, a snap of a finger, she sit down with Tommy by calling him, but not Dana White to explain to him, hey, Dana, the only punishment that's just here, and it's not because we decided it. I think it's the right thing to do, is for you to learn, because you speaking out of your ass, you don't understand, actually, that domestic violence and abuse, a lot of time comes from anger. Right. Anger comes from. We discussed, right.

Eldar [00:59:06]:
Not being able to fulfill certain desires. Right. A lot of times it's coupled with, you know, abusing alcohol, drugs, and stuff like that. I can feel that. Therefore, there's this kind of crumbs that lead to the path of domestic abuse. And you. You went through those paths. You grabbed those crumbs, and now you committed a domestic abuse.

Eldar [00:59:25]:
Now you have to uncommitted for yourself and remove that from your identity. That it's. It's gonna guarantee that you'll never be in this predicament ever again. How do you convince them of that? How does the society subject them to that? Because I think canceling him. Right. It's a cop out, too. Okay? You cancel them, and then what? He's gonna. What? He's, you know, like you said, he has money.

Eldar [00:59:49]:
He has all this other stuff. How will he learn? Yeah, we want them to learn through punishment.

Guest [00:59:54]:
No, it's like putting a rich person on house arrests. It's like. Is that really a punishment?

Eldar [01:00:00]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:00:02]:
No, I don't think the goal here, I think of justice is to punish. It's not the punishment to teach, because teaching is punishment. To face yourself.

Eldar [01:00:13]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:00:14]:
Ultimate punishment.

Eldar [01:00:14]:
It's the ultimate punishment.

Mike [01:00:16]:
And then to come out of it and be thankful for learning that lesson, that's ultimate gift.

Eldar [01:00:20]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:00:20]:
That's what justice is.

Eldar [01:00:22]:
Yeah.

Tommy [01:00:23]:
I think where I think is like.

Eldar [01:00:25]:
Dana, if you're listening, yeah. Call us.

Mike [01:00:29]:
We'll give you the custom made plan.

Eldar [01:00:31]:
We'll fucking teach you.

Mike [01:00:32]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:00:34]:
Right, Alex. Yeah. Yeah. This will be the pal. We'll decide.

Mike [01:00:41]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:00:41]:
We're gonna ask him a question. But what do you know about love? How are you communicating with your family? How did this. This came to this? Because we don't think that this is an isolated chance, by chance that this happened incident. Well, Dana White never went out with his wife before. They never got drunk before. They never went to a club before. They know what never was around other girls before. There was.

Eldar [01:01:06]:
I don't think there was anything out of the ordinary that was thrown in this particular incident that they'd never faced before.

Mike [01:01:11]:
They're just. They were just caught on camera. That's the only thing here, I was finally exposed. What's been going on behind the doors?

Tommy [01:01:18]:
What was that other thing that you said? What was that other thing that you said could be happening behind closed doors? You said that maybe there's something more to be gained from this for them that we don't see. What could that be?

Eldar [01:01:29]:
We don't know the story. Right. So I think through part of learning for him would have to explain the story. Right. Therapy. Right. You explain what's actually going on. Hopefully, you're going to be as honest as possible.

Eldar [01:01:42]:
So a therapist or whoever's mediating this thing can get a real picture of what's actually going on, and only then you can really kind of. Kind of, you know, navigate those weeds and weed them out and see what's really happening, right. In turn, try to get him to learn and become a new person.

Tommy [01:02:03]:
I just want to sort of probe whether or not that kind of career. You know, like they say, video games might lead to violence. Could be complete bullshit. But watching people beat on each other. On each other.

Eldar [01:02:16]:
Right.

Tommy [01:02:16]:
Could that. Could that lead to these kinds of tendencies?

Mike [01:02:20]:
It could.

Eldar [01:02:20]:
You trying to cancel the whole sports, huh?

Mike [01:02:22]:
It could. It could shine light on a pre existing condition.

Tommy [01:02:26]:
Ah, wow.

Mike [01:02:27]:
You know, that's what I thought about. I think we talked about this also.

Eldar [01:02:32]:
They could. Yeah.

Mike [01:02:33]:
But I don't know, but I'm not sure if the correlation is always.

Tommy [01:02:36]:
Yeah, I mean, alcoholism.

Guest [01:02:41]:
I was just finished, like, correlation is not.

Eldar [01:02:43]:
Does that mean causation? Yeah.

Guest [01:02:44]:
It does not mean causation.

Eldar [01:02:45]:
Yeah. Word up.

Tommy [01:02:47]:
Yeah. Um, alcoholism is definitely genetic, isn't it?

Guest [01:02:53]:
It can be if you have an addictive personality.

Tommy [01:02:56]:
I've heard that before.

Eldar [01:02:59]:
Addictive personality.

Guest [01:03:00]:
Everybody gets addicted to good things, somebody. It could be a genetic thing, but it's not. That's the thing. It's. It's. It's a numbers game, like nature versus nurture.

Tommy [01:03:10]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:03:12]:
Good. So, are we. Are we in conclusion that, uh. And an agreeance that Dana White's punishment, the just this justice that has to be had for him is for him to learn. Will we agree on that?

Mike [01:03:29]:
I definitely agree with myself on that.

Eldar [01:03:31]:
I agree with you.

Tommy [01:03:32]:
If we go back to Socrates unexamined life.

Mike [01:03:34]:
Well, first it was Socrates, but then I also had to think about it myself as well, and I, you know, that's why I kind of more expanded that you actually.

Eldar [01:03:42]:
Well, you talking about real rehab, Mike. Real rehab.

Mike [01:03:46]:
Real rehab.

Eldar [01:03:46]:
Real rehab. Right. Not just throw you in jail, lock you up. And you think. I yourself.

Mike [01:03:51]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:03:51]:
Right.

Tommy [01:03:52]:
That's not it for me.

Eldar [01:03:53]:
I minimized real therapy.

Tommy [01:03:54]:
When I said, I'm not going to rehab, I said, you know, so what? I did a little coke, a little crack. Yeah, but I smoked a little weed. What's the big deal? I just finished. I can turn it off tomorrow. This is a very typical. I'll shut it. No, but it's not. It's not a thing.

Tommy [01:04:14]:
I think that the degree of seriousness goes up as you gain power. Power is an enormous responsibility.

Eldar [01:04:24]:
There you go.

Tommy [01:04:25]:
In games, I don't know how much you can really fuck up before you actually taint the game itself. Right. Like corruption in soccer. I don't know. Is that, is that on par here? Is he minimizing shit?

Eldar [01:04:39]:
You said something important. Responsibility, life.

Mike [01:04:44]:
You guys said that because he's Dana White. He has all his power. He has suffer more. I think if he gets justice because he's already up there, he can help. He's. No, but also, he will suffer more just because he already is so far away from the right path. It'll be even more suffering along the journey of justice because he's so much up there. He has so much power.

Eldar [01:05:09]:
Agree. But also, it could be a very good thing, Mike.

Mike [01:05:12]:
It could. No, it's gonna be a good.

Eldar [01:05:13]:
Because if he. Yeah. If he. If he comes out of it on top as a good person. Oh, yeah.

Mike [01:05:17]:
I mean, that's the goal is gonna.

Eldar [01:05:18]:
Be the representation of good.

Mike [01:05:21]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:05:22]:
Up top.

Mike [01:05:23]:
I mean.

Eldar [01:05:23]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:05:23]:
A person like that who has that much power.

Eldar [01:05:26]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:05:26]:
Can influence, can speak about an experience they went through is huge.

Eldar [01:05:30]:
Correct.

Mike [01:05:31]:
It's a huge thing, correct. Yeah.

Eldar [01:05:33]:
I mean, in this and the way we're talking about it now, then it's. If he was to take this path, which hopefully he will, um. This is the best thing that ever happened to him.

Mike [01:05:43]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:05:44]:
Yeah. How do you guys feel about that? Yeah.

Mike [01:05:49]:
I said in 510 years, when he's. Or 20 years, whatever it takes, if he completes his journey, he'll thank everybody for putting him on this path. That's my, uh. So I think that is the best thing that can happen to him to live a virtuous life.

Tommy [01:06:05]:
We're gonna have to rewind a little bit. What do you think of missed out on some of that.

Eldar [01:06:10]:
Do you not think that this is the best thing that could have happened to him if he, like Mike said, took the journey of self discovery and learned and eradicated himself from this type of behavior?

Tommy [01:06:23]:
My immediate answer would be probably your answer, which is probably not because it's. It's possible, but it seems like he's off the deep end for sure, if that's the right way to express it. But he shows anger, and if I were in that position, I'd probably be angry, too, that it was witnessed. Some had it on tape. They shared it. I mean, think of Donald Trump's nonsense.

Eldar [01:06:52]:
Mm hmm.

Tommy [01:06:53]:
Which really wasn't nonsense. People took it seriously.

Eldar [01:06:58]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:06:58]:
And he's gonna suffer for that vantage.

Tommy [01:07:01]:
Is he using it to disadvantage? You know, like violent games, violent nature, you know? But really, we're all people. We're all human, that kind of thing. I mean, these fighters, they have their own circumstances. No, as a fighter, you have your own upbringing. You have your own values. You have your own desire. Why do you fight? You know, that's. It could be fury, but it could be controlled fury.

Eldar [01:07:29]:
Yeah.

Tommy [01:07:30]:
Now, controlled fury could be. I don't know, it could be I'm fucking busting out this door and I'm going for a walk. That could be it. But the way he's expressing it is like, there's a lot more ingredients, let's say. So what kind of ingredients is he working with that he's saying, you know, our family is working this out of this is. If there's. You guys would get what I'm saying here.

Guest [01:07:54]:
Does he have enough eggs to make the cake?

Eldar [01:07:57]:
Ooh, whoa.

Tommy [01:07:59]:
What does that mean?

Mike [01:08:01]:
He doesn't, but Dennis rocks. We got the eggs, and we've got the eggs. And we might be willing to, you know, and UFC.

Tommy [01:08:10]:
If you're hearing this and you want to reach out. Yeah, you want to reach out?

Eldar [01:08:15]:
We can help you. President.

Mike [01:08:16]:
Hundred percent.

Tommy [01:08:17]:
$1,500. Starting.

Mike [01:08:19]:
A minute.

Tommy [01:08:21]:
Minute.

Mike [01:08:21]:
Yeah. You're about to say 1500. What? An hour?

Tommy [01:08:24]:
I'm not sure. I'm not really good with the ad.

Mike [01:08:26]:
You're not in the finance department.

Eldar [01:08:27]:
Yeah. Yeah. So keep it quiet. Yeah, no, it's interesting. Yeah, I think. I think. I think that's what it is. I think we did come to a good agreement that, for Dino White, justice is learning.

Eldar [01:08:42]:
Really learning. I think it's for everybody now, how that looks, right. That has to be really ironed out. Right. But part of that is to really learn to a point where this can never happen again, because you now understand what you're saying and what. How you're behaving and all that is parallel to your belief system, which is supposed to be rooted in truth.

Mike [01:09:03]:
So in a general statement, would justice then be for any situation to. To devote your life to the opposite of this thing that you committed? Like, if your anger is the injustice that you did. Then should you devote your life to the opposite of anger? If you're a liar, should you devote your life to the truth?

Eldar [01:09:28]:
Honesty. Honesty. The opposite. Yes. Liar. Honesty. Anger. Love.

Eldar [01:09:33]:
Right.

Mike [01:09:34]:
Because like we were saying, recent podcasts, every single virtue, we think maybe they're all connected. If you devote your life to one, the all us, they come with it. It's just kind of like whichever door you want to walk into.

Eldar [01:09:50]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:09:51]:
Into that.

Eldar [01:09:52]:
Yeah. You know, it's hard. Yeah.

Mike [01:09:56]:
I think that's. That's kind of like. It is hard.

Eldar [01:09:59]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:09:59]:
But I think that one might be, like, a general thing that I just thought about as far as what justice is.

Eldar [01:10:04]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:10:04]:
It's the complete, like, dive into the opposite of opposite virtue.

Eldar [01:10:12]:
That's interesting. That's interesting theory. Yeah. The wrongdoing, right. Any wrongdoing.

Mike [01:10:18]:
Do the opposite and then go.

Eldar [01:10:19]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:10:20]:
Go into it. Learn everything you can about it.

Eldar [01:10:22]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Tommy [01:10:24]:
Is he still. Question is, if it's part of his. It's physically a thing with him, and the way his mind works is that he has no ability to shut this off. And he's actually a psychopath.

Mike [01:10:40]:
He doesn't.

Tommy [01:10:41]:
That requires a lot, much more than he is either willing to put in or can put in if it's too much work for him to unpack it and talk about it.

Mike [01:10:50]:
But the person who committed the crime does not decide what justice is.

Eldar [01:10:54]:
Yeah. Wow.

Tommy [01:10:56]:
Oh, fuck.

Guest [01:10:57]:
I'm also thinking, what does he respond better to? Positive reinforcement or negative?

Mike [01:11:02]:
Yeah.

Tommy [01:11:02]:
Elaborate on that.

Guest [01:11:04]:
Well, say someone does something bad that they're not supposed to. Like, sometimes timeouts, yelling at them, like, taking things away just doesn't work. But if you talk to them, like, sweetly, kindly, like, kill them with kindness, then they actually, like, do make a change.

Eldar [01:11:24]:
Does it work the same way, the opposite way if you talk to them nicely, but they don't respond to nicely, so you punish them.

Guest [01:11:30]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:11:32]:
You believe that there's such a thing where if you know there's opposites, you say, yeah. You do believe that.

Guest [01:11:39]:
I've seen it in practice. That's why I say that.

Eldar [01:11:41]:
No, and I agree that we can find those examples. However, I do think that inherently, I think we can respond and are receptive to positive reinforcement as people.

Guest [01:11:55]:
I wasn't denying that. I was just saying for Dana specifically.

Eldar [01:11:59]:
No, what I'm saying is that, like, you know, and obviously this podcast, right, like, we started maybe, like, on heavy note, we're like, yeah, what's the punishment? How do we punish him? How do we punish him. Right. But we came to a conclusion that we're actually not. We not supposed to punish him. We're supposed to teach him. And teaching is actually a compassionate action. Right. It's a positive reinforcement, one where we, you know, I mean, obviously the lesson that he needs to learn is going to be a harsh one.

Eldar [01:12:22]:
Right. But nonetheless, I think teaching is a compassionate approach to the. To the situation, to the solution, and not punishment. No, we're not saying, hey, we're going to take away all your toys, Dana. Right. We're actually saying, hey, keep your toys.

Mike [01:12:34]:
Right.

Tommy [01:12:35]:
Well, let's talk about what were his circumstances in making that, that unfortunate situation occur? You know, think about that. Like, what was it that drove him that day to the edge? And I think that's where you would actually meet them at their need. You know, it could be. Let's say it was just cheating. Let's just say it was cheating. Right. And, and if we've gone what Mike said, what if there was an underlying condition? What if. What if that anger, it's like it comes from somewhere, like, in terms of teaching them compassion, they'd probably have to relearn.

Mike [01:13:19]:
But isn't anger what it means to be an angel loving relationship stem from a lack of love?

Tommy [01:13:23]:
That's what. Yeah, that's kind of what I'm getting at. I mean, compassion for somebody who. I don't know who's. Who's schizophrenic, it might require quite a lot of work for them to orient themselves through medication, through, like, intensive clinical work, through a willingness to open up and talk about and discover and understand it. I don't know if that. You can't really punish someone for being sick like that. But if he's not copying, if he's not admitting to that, if he's not admitting to sort of.

Tommy [01:14:07]:
If he doesn't have a sickness, maybe. What if it's just a cover up for his sickness that he's saying these things? He knows he has a sickness. I'm not really sure. I mean, alcoholism is a sickness. So how does. How does discipline work in, like, these. In this? How does that. How do you.

Eldar [01:14:27]:
Discipline doesn't work here.

Tommy [01:14:28]:
No.

Eldar [01:14:30]:
It's another can of worms that we can open up. But this, that's not. We're not trying to discipline here.

Mike [01:14:34]:
Yeah. Low key justice is the justice. True justice, if it's exacted properly, is. I think it's the greatest gift you can give to somebody who's done wrong. Great is gift. That's my, you know, yeah, I agree with that.

Eldar [01:14:52]:
Because, yeah, if you really look at the core of, you know, if you talk about the sickness, whatever bad behavior or whatever it is, if you do real justice, which is then in turn learning, you actually are giving a new life to that individual, a better life, a good life. And that's the greatest gift you can give.

Mike [01:15:11]:
But a problem in society, I guess it's. We don't have a individualized workshops for people to correct to do this.

Eldar [01:15:19]:
Correct. We don't. We don't have that, unfortunately, or maybe fortunately, maybe it's supposed to be this way until we get it right. I think we're moving maybe in that direction. We finding out through statistics and stuff like that that, you know, throwing people in cages in isolation, isolation and stuff, and confinement just doesn't work. You know, they become crazy, you know, they do even worse things, you know, that's shown. So what they need is actually, I think, positive reinforcement and love, right. And learning, education so they can discover a different part of themselves and live a different life.

Eldar [01:15:59]:
And that is the biggest gift. You know.

Tommy [01:16:04]:
Something that stuck with me, what you said yesterday was you, you know, like, getting the world to change, though, is not going to be an easy task. I don't remember what we're talking about, but I think about that in this scenario.

Eldar [01:16:16]:
Yeah.

Tommy [01:16:16]:
You know, people, public figures who make mistakes, they. But Tom, they put human behavior on a national level, Tom.

Eldar [01:16:28]:
It's not easy for sure, but it's also. I'm not sure if that's the effort that you're supposed to put in into it. You know what I mean? I'm not sure if you're supposed to change the world. The world changes after you've changed yourself. She has a world outside of this. Mom, dad, friends, customers. Correct. These are all people she touches.

Eldar [01:16:51]:
These are all people she interacts with. Same thing for you, Tom. Outside of our friendship and this podcast, you have a world. Starbucks, bookstore, college, mom and dad. This is where you interact and engage with people. If you're a good person, you touch a lot more than you think, more than you can even ever imagine, but you have to be effective at it. But who has to be effective? Not the world. You have to be effective at it first, and then you can touch the world, starting with understanding things, concepts, and what we're talking about, ideas like anger.

Eldar [01:17:27]:
We discovered anger. And then Alex, you know, with her examples about dishes and stuff like that, might look at the world differently, right? Might look at her parents differently, might show a little bit more compassion and understanding. Towards that might not say it's gonna happen through one session, right? But in hope that if she continues to think, to reason, to deduce properly, she'll get to a place where she influences the world. Right. And not the world influencing her anymore. So the reach can be really, really, really big if you do the work first on yourself. So don't underestimate our own power and your own power.

Tommy [01:18:03]:
What is our. What is his? You know, I guess I would ask, how much does he believe that he, you know, what you made when you make a mistake and you have to repair, that seems like it's the goal that you have to, like, reach, but getting there is probably going to be way harder, much harder than you ever imagined. I mean, it's one thing to say I'm gonna do good and set up that false goal. That's one thing. But when you actually say, I'm actually gonna repair, I'm gonna work on myself, and I'm gonna go through these tasks in order to be a better person. I think that's something that takes a 110% of a human being.

Eldar [01:18:49]:
I agree with you. An actual effort has to be put in. But that's the thing. It takes a village sometimes, you know what I mean? And if you have a good enough village around you, you can do it.

Tommy [01:18:57]:
The question is, does he have that?

Eldar [01:18:58]:
Yeah. Well, he does with us. Yeah. I mean, hopefully he's listening if he tunes in, but if he's not, tom, you know, your job is, go promote it.

Tommy [01:19:07]:
Write him a letter.

Eldar [01:19:08]:
What do you mean, write him a letter? Write all the whole media letter saying that, hey, the guy said Dennis rocks. They figured it out. They know what Dana white needs for the good of the humanity and good of the world, for the cause of domestic abuse and violence, raising awareness on that.

Tommy [01:19:24]:
What claim, if any, do you guys have? I'm not really a fan of UFC, or I don't watch it much, but how much does Dana white mean to you guys? This kind of behavior, does it disappoint you?

Eldar [01:19:35]:
I mean, we watch UFC, and it's entertaining, for sure. Watch it for the entertainment. It is not nice to see and hear that this happened, obviously, with the person who we constantly look, we don't look up to him. I don't look up to him. I don't know if Michael said to him, right, but he's definitely the face of UFC, really. So we're all listening to him. And you are in his fear. Yeah.

Eldar [01:19:59]:
In his business. Right. And making the fights, talking about the fights, talking about fighters and stuff like that. We pay attention and listen to him. We're not listening to Dana White for his life advice and how to live my life and how. How my morning routine should be. Absolutely not. How I conduct my business with my wife.

Eldar [01:20:14]:
Absolutely not.

Tommy [01:20:15]:
But things that concern UFC, in those matters, you have absolutely. You have some 100% regard for him.

Mike [01:20:22]:
Yeah, I think he's good at his job.

Eldar [01:20:24]:
He's good at his job. Right. And then, you know, it's entertaining. Entertaining job to entertain us.

Mike [01:20:28]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:20:29]:
That's what we. That's what we.

Mike [01:20:30]:
That's why we watch.

Eldar [01:20:31]:
That's what we watch. That's what we tune in, you know? Did I expect Dana White to be a good husband and a good father? No, I did not. You'd be foolish to think that if anybody thinks that, that just because he's a representative of UFC or any other conglomerate, that they're going to be good in their private life. Absolutely not.

Tommy [01:20:50]:
No.

Eldar [01:20:51]:
That's silly. You know what I need to do, because we don't know him. We don't know Dana White. He hasn't said here. We haven't talked to him. Right. On record. Off the record.

Eldar [01:21:00]:
If we do, then we can make a little. Some type of judgments.

Tommy [01:21:04]:
So is there a. Would you say at least there's a value like proposition or something in having Dana White as the spokesperson of UFC in some kind of, you know, this person is the one who provides. This person is the one, you know, it's like a head coach. Head coach is great.

Eldar [01:21:21]:
Yeah. I think that Mike said that. The way he speaks, he's personable. Right. Sometimes he's funny. He could be stern.

Mike [01:21:29]:
Yes.

Eldar [01:21:30]:
Straight forward.

Mike [01:21:30]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:21:31]:
He should be straightforward. Those are some good qualities. And I'm pretty sure in business as well, making deals, making sure and stuff like that. Being fierce, for example, for pandemic. I really like the way he handled the pandemic. For example, he didn't shy away and said, we're going to do this. We're going to try to normalize our sport for the world because that's what the world needs right now. You know what I mean? And he did that.

Eldar [01:21:53]:
I respected that decision, you know, so he definitely has certain qualities that are commendable.

Mike [01:21:59]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:21:59]:
You know what I mean? But as we can see now, not in totality. Right. And I think that if he does right, do this right, and allows justice to kind of prevail right now, he will become a better person and even a better business.

Tommy [01:22:14]:
What separates the people who see the world as you do? And those who may be more like me, who are more cynical, let's say, like, this guy's just a self interested asshole.

Eldar [01:22:25]:
He deserves. I find it that the. The more you dig like this, the more you've come to realize that you shouldn't judge the book by its cover, you should definitely try to open the book and read what's inside. I'm not ready to judge and say that Dana White is a bad man. I'm not saying that. You know what I mean? I'm not gonna say that. You know, I need to really find out and see whether or not he's a bad man.

Mike [01:22:47]:
Yeah.

Tommy [01:22:48]:
You're really seeing it for what it is.

Eldar [01:22:49]:
Yeah. I could be off kilter. Yeah.

Mike [01:22:56]:
I think these two, you know, I think what separates might have misunderstood your question, but I think what separates is between elder and you is the people who look at the world as the world happens to them and the people who shape their world because they are empowered. So it's just, I think that's. That's a big difference. You know, if you're empowered in yourself and you know that you can shape your life in a way that you. That is desirable to you, you're empowered. You buy into yourself, and you know that you're very capable of living.

Eldar [01:23:32]:
Yeah. I don't need Dana White to do the right thing for me to be happy. Yeah. I could care less.

Mike [01:23:38]:
Other people think that, well, this is just happening to me, that the world is trying to. Is out to get me. Like, all this bad stuff is happening to me. Like, I have bad relationships, bad friendships. You feel like it's kind of coming at you instead of you're controlling what's actually happening in your world. And I think that's a big difference. You know, you haven't discovered that you are a powerful person. You can do great things, and you think that maybe it's chance that these things happen to you when the good stuff happens versus.

Mike [01:24:09]:
Because you're not empowered, I guess, you know, in those different areas, you know?

Tommy [01:24:15]:
So can you guys put this together for a second? He's not empowered.

Eldar [01:24:20]:
Right.

Tommy [01:24:20]:
But you're saying it doesn't.

Mike [01:24:22]:
What?

Tommy [01:24:22]:
What doesn't matter that to you about Dana Dane, Dana cook or whatever?

Mike [01:24:27]:
What's his name?

Eldar [01:24:28]:
Dana White.

Tommy [01:24:28]:
Dana White.

Eldar [01:24:30]:
Yeah. No, his personal character, who he is as a person, doesn't. Doesn't.

Tommy [01:24:35]:
Like, you don't care if he gives charity.

Eldar [01:24:37]:
Yeah. You know, like, I don't care about that. No, no. Like, there's no connection. Like, if you can't hear every single day. Like, I care about, obviously, my friends, right. And, you know, but ultimately, like, I can't put my. My chips on somebody else's right or wrongdoing.

Eldar [01:24:52]:
I just can't do that. You know what I mean? Dana White's not gonna pay my rent. You know, I'm gonna pay my bills. You know, LeBron James is not gonna pay my bills. All those celebrities not gonna pay my bills. You know what I mean? So them doing right or wrong, it's. It doesn't. It should not faze me.

Eldar [01:25:08]:
And it doesn't, you know, cuz it's.

Guest [01:25:10]:
Their life, not yours.

Eldar [01:25:11]:
Correct. You know, why would I, you know, put them up on that pedestal, say, oh, you'd be disappointed. Yeah.

Mike [01:25:21]:
Especially you can't put them up on that pedestal because you actually don't know what their values are.

Eldar [01:25:26]:
Correct.

Mike [01:25:27]:
I don't have no idea.

Eldar [01:25:28]:
I have no idea what's going on.

Mike [01:25:29]:
Yeah. And those are the only things that are worth pressing when you discuss it in person.

Eldar [01:25:34]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:25:35]:
Now, how much money to make you guys?

Tommy [01:25:38]:
Let's say just UFC it, dude, and do those things.

Eldar [01:25:43]:
I like. I mean, we like it. Yeah, sure. We like it and we enjoy it, and it's definitely entertaining. But, like, turn off UFC right now. I mean, like, it is what it is, right?

Tommy [01:25:54]:
Betting. Betting sports and betting.

Eldar [01:25:56]:
They're far in a different way to maintain ourselves.

Tommy [01:25:58]:
They're about. They're about, uh, yeah, you're loyal. You're loyal goers to the.

Eldar [01:26:01]:
We are, right.

Tommy [01:26:02]:
That's just what it is.

Eldar [01:26:03]:
Yeah, we are loyal to a point. Up to a point. Yeah, yeah.

Mike [01:26:07]:
We're not gonna put our lives on it.

Eldar [01:26:10]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:26:11]:
To decide our feet whether we have a good night or a bad night on Saturday.

Eldar [01:26:15]:
Yeah. Based on the outcomes of the fights.

Tommy [01:26:18]:
Or so that there's the value proposition for people. It has to be like, is Dana White's angering me? His. His behavior angering me? Like, comparing that with their love for the sport. You're like, which one?

Eldar [01:26:33]:
Yeah, if you. Yeah. Like, yeah, if you putting all your trips on the level, the sport of being that type of a fan and it's emotionally draining you or taking away from you, you have to probably reevaluate your relationship with that. With that thing. You know what I mean?

Mike [01:26:49]:
Mm hmm.

Eldar [01:26:50]:
There has to be some kind of a balance, you know, if they turned off UFC, I mean, it's just part of life. Yeah. You know, we'll find something else to look at and to enjoy, and I'm pretty sure we'll be perfectly fine, you know?

Tommy [01:27:06]:
Agreed.

Eldar [01:27:07]:
Yeah. So, final thoughts. What do you have to say for Dana? One message to Dana, Alex, one message. Um, get your ass over here. Aside from that. Right. Like, get your ass over here quickly. You know, quickly.

Eldar [01:27:26]:
Not only save your career, save your family life, save your. Save your kids, save everything.

Guest [01:27:31]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:27:31]:
You know what I mean? Sorry.

Guest [01:27:34]:
Um, one message.

Eldar [01:27:35]:
Well, Dana.

Guest [01:27:36]:
Well, I'll address you.

Eldar [01:27:39]:
You.

Guest [01:27:39]:
You get. You get out. What you put in is what I will say.

Eldar [01:27:45]:
Hmm. Short and sweet. To the point. Talk to Dana.

Tommy [01:27:51]:
I'm afraid he might have some hands. Run over and clock me. I mean, I've said before that public figures, for me, they.

Mike [01:28:01]:
They mean a lot.

Tommy [01:28:02]:
No, their words actually are things that I. I try to just get. This is such a James moment here, but, like, I try to, like, gather the essence of their words. And really, apart from that, I can't say that, like, how I feel about a person I can predict will change. I think, you know, I think that there's probably gonna be a chance for me to, like a sport less, because someone in power has made a huge mistake and is, in their own way, tainting the game.

Eldar [01:28:45]:
Is this use, in another words, saying that you haven't learned anything from this podcast? Yes.

Tommy [01:28:53]:
Where did you come up with that? Where the hell?

Eldar [01:28:59]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:28:59]:
100%. I think that Tom esteems people of that stature.

Tommy [01:29:04]:
I do.

Mike [01:29:04]:
Hundred percent leaders. Therefore, if they do wrong.

Eldar [01:29:07]:
Yeah, he can. Yeah, he has a.

Mike [01:29:10]:
He has some skin in the game here.

Eldar [01:29:11]:
These people.

Tommy [01:29:12]:
Leaders. People in power. I mean, I'm not saying that I have a vendetta against people in power.

Eldar [01:29:16]:
Yeah.

Tommy [01:29:17]:
But I think that I have a very strong thirst to learn.

Eldar [01:29:21]:
That's why he prefaced this whole thing and said, I don't want to get punched in the face, but one of. One of Dana White's goons.

Tommy [01:29:28]:
But this is why I have friends, because you guys can help, you know, roughen up the skin a little.

Eldar [01:29:31]:
100%, bro. Nobody's gonna touch you, Tom. Mark my word. At least when you're here, I'm on my watch, know what I mean? When you're out there, call the whole game. Anything goes. Yeah, we locked and loaded, bro.

Mike [01:29:45]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:29:46]:
We live in a state.

Tommy [01:29:47]:
I'm getting bullied at Starbucks.

Eldar [01:29:49]:
Self defense. Mike, the final words to Dana White. Say something to him.

Mike [01:29:55]:
Dana, if you call us, it's probably gonna be the worst decision of your life, but it's also gonna be the best decision in your life.

Eldar [01:30:03]:
Wow.

Mike [01:30:04]:
So pick up the phone.

Eldar [01:30:05]:
Yes.

Tommy [01:30:05]:
And someone who's highly familiar with you as your rep. We'll take that.

Eldar [01:30:10]:
Yeah, Dana, we don't bite.

Tommy [01:30:12]:
Yeah, we don't bite, but snakes do.

Eldar [01:30:15]:
Snakes do. We have a couple of those once in a while, pass through. Yeah.

Tommy [01:30:26]:
Wait, do you think maybe he needs to get bit? Like, you're saying if he learned. If he had the philosophy, you know, or whatever, he. He, you know, went through his rehabilitation process, would he. You think, like, you know, you think he'd get bit by enlightenment, for example?

Mike [01:30:44]:
I think if he goes through the process, this will be the best thing that happens to him or to anybody, if anybody committed a crime or any injustice.

Tommy [01:30:53]:
My question, if he had learned that, if he learns that lesson, do you think he'll realize what his life is for, what it is, and, you know, think, I'm not where I want to be at all. I don't want to be this person 100%.

Eldar [01:31:08]:
There's a potential thing that happens where he can completely drop everything. But this is not the point of this. If he loves UFC, he loves being Dana White, the president of UFC, and everything that comes with it. Right. The point is not to drop that or walk away from that. The point for it to actually become even better at it. But after he has settled his matters at home, and it can mean that he might have to divorce his wife because he's not happy and she's not happy, that's also an outcome. Right.

Eldar [01:31:36]:
There's many different things, but that shit needs to be unpacked to really see what's really going on there so he doesn't walk around just blabbing his mouth about, you know, being an advocate for domestic violence, where he's actually, you know, the culprit of it.

Tommy [01:31:50]:
Yeah. That's basically nothing's gonna change in a way.

Eldar [01:31:54]:
Who, me?

Tommy [01:31:55]:
No. If you're advocating. If you say you advocate for things and sort of like, you're. You're blanketing the thing.

Eldar [01:32:01]:
Yeah. Yeah.

Tommy [01:32:02]:
But that's not really gonna. If change can happen, it's good. Does it have to occur in a way that's different than what, whenever the fuck is happening now?

Eldar [01:32:11]:
Yeah. Yeah, 100%. And Dana White would be known to never speak about domestic abuse ever again because Dana White will be known for love and a loving marriage, for example. You understand? So it's not him going around to rallies against domestic abuse. He's not even going to have time for that. He's gonna be talking about love and how to have a proper, good relationship. You understand? It's a completely different trajectory of what, you know, like, how your life will turn out like it's. Yeah, it's completely different.

Mike [01:32:45]:
Mm hmm.

Tommy [01:32:45]:
It's changed. Possible. Does.

Eldar [01:32:47]:
What the fuck, Tom?

Tommy [01:32:48]:
Do do, Tom.

Eldar [01:32:51]:
Of course.

Tommy [01:32:53]:
Hansen's got a subject.

Eldar [01:32:56]:
Yeah, Tom, of course. Changes possible. We're constantly changing, Tom.

Mike [01:32:59]:
Change is possible.

Eldar [01:32:59]:
We can do it through therapy. We can do it through medicine. You know, we could do it through a Hoskins. Some people do it. You know, change is possible. And there's some change that you can definitely, you know. Should we change constantly, you know? Of course. And there's a lot of things that change us.

Eldar [01:33:15]:
You know, love changes us. Hate changes us. Money changes us. Power changes us. Friendship changes us. Compassion and everything else. I mean, everything under the design changes us. The sun changes us.

Eldar [01:33:26]:
Today we're pale, Tom. You know why? It's winter time, summertime. Me and you brown up. We change. Of course. Everything changes. You seem not to agree, but okay. You weren't supposed to.

Tommy [01:33:37]:
I think it just had to be more specific, you know? I mean, what we see is what we see. You know? We see this guy addressing millions of people, your public voice.

Eldar [01:33:49]:
Think about it. The way you.

Tommy [01:33:53]:
I'm going to use the way I would speak to a room full of strangers and the way I would speak around you guys, you know, that they'd be different.

Eldar [01:34:02]:
It'd be different. But that's the thing. The whole idea is for to try to do your best at bridging the gap between the two. You know what I mean? So you're not like Martin Luther King, who's, you know, who's a great speaker, talks about peace, talks about everything else, but also is having affairs behind closed doors. I also heard about that. Right. So what do we remember? Which character you want to remember? You want to talk about Martin Luther King, who wants to bring peace to the world and to all the nations and the people. Or you want to remember him as the fact that he was cheating on his wife as well.

Eldar [01:34:34]:
Right. You want to bridge the gap and have consistency of character. Right. So you don't have the Dana whites. Right. Contradictions. Or you say you love your wife and you cheat on her at the same time.

Tommy [01:34:48]:
Okay, I see. I mean, could it be that he has given up his sort of stature as a leader and maybe copped out, you know, and or capitolated what hurt in terms of being president of the UFC? Maybe watching guys hit each other has gotten to his head, you know, maybe the money into his head.

Eldar [01:35:10]:
Something probably got to his head. Sure. No. Yeah, right. We don't know what it is, Tom. We can't make the judgment call without sitting down and actually having a conversation. Yeah, you know what? We don't know the details.

Tommy [01:35:21]:
What's the number one thing we say about men who went hitting women?

Mike [01:35:25]:
I'm not sure.

Guest [01:35:27]:
They're pigs.

Mike [01:35:28]:
Pigs.

Tommy [01:35:30]:
Why did they do it? What's behind that?

Guest [01:35:34]:
That's the question, isn't it?

Eldar [01:35:36]:
What do you think?

Tommy [01:35:37]:
Like what? Why would, um. Why would a man be provoked to hit him a lot, any minute.

Eldar [01:35:44]:
For.

Guest [01:35:44]:
For power. Like major, like, maintain, like a hierarchy kind of thing. Obsession could be a thing. Anger is what you say.

Tommy [01:35:53]:
Obsession with controlling punishment.

Guest [01:35:55]:
That, too.

Tommy [01:35:56]:
What do you mean by obsession?

Mike [01:35:57]:
Like what.

Tommy [01:35:58]:
What would a man be obsessed with?

Guest [01:36:00]:
Just ownership. Sometimes they see them as an object to the thing, or, like they have an image. Like they're pretty little doll, but they're acting out of character, like what they believe they should be. Like they're coming out of the box and they don't like that, so they just, like, rough it up again. Make sure they stay in there. Using negative reinforcements to make sure they stay in that box. Yeah. It's terrible, right?

Tommy [01:36:30]:
These are not necessarily family categorized stuff. You know, this is like personal individual selfishness fault. This is serious individual fault.

Eldar [01:36:42]:
Yeah.

Tommy [01:36:43]:
Or, you know, on part of the wife and the husband.

Eldar [01:36:48]:
What if it was just a reaction? What if it was a self defense reaction? Or because he watched UFC so much that he knows that if somebody throws a punch, you gotta throw three back.

Tommy [01:36:58]:
Hmm. I think at that point, it's just so primitive and it does border. Like, it's borderline. Like, you know, like it's. It's without reason. It's. It's without our sort of, like, rider and elephant kind of reasoning. You're the rider, but the elephant is the one who knows where the fuck you're going.

Tommy [01:37:23]:
Like.

Eldar [01:37:24]:
Yeah.

Tommy [01:37:24]:
You know what I'm saying? I got this from. From a book, but still.

Eldar [01:37:27]:
Yeah.

Tommy [01:37:28]:
You know, like, the elephants, the power, really.

Eldar [01:37:30]:
But you.

Tommy [01:37:30]:
You as the rider, you know, you have that ability to guide. You know what I mean? If you end up putting your hand on your wife, we all know that this is, like, non negotiable. Wrong. That's the kind of thing that's. That's what it is. And I think. I think that if she were to take that first hit, you know, she would take to hit first.

Mike [01:37:58]:
She did.

Tommy [01:37:58]:
Um. Maybe that's within a range of acceptable behavior for him. My wife can hit me, but she knows what the fuck is up when she does, right?

Eldar [01:38:08]:
Mm hmm.

Mike [01:38:09]:
Okay.

Tommy [01:38:09]:
So I'm gonna strike. That's kind of what it is.

Eldar [01:38:12]:
Yeah.

Tommy [01:38:12]:
And he threatens it, or he puts himself up on that. You know, like, he puts himself in power there.

Eldar [01:38:17]:
Yeah.

Tommy [01:38:18]:
Yeah. Is this too much of an analysis? Because we were really getting down on this.

Eldar [01:38:23]:
No, Tom. No. So, you know. Yeah.

Mike [01:38:26]:
You could ramble for a little bit.

Eldar [01:38:28]:
Yeah, we can ramble always. Cut it out.

Tommy [01:38:31]:
Throw me a bone.

Eldar [01:38:36]:
Yeah. So, yeah, that's it, man. Nothing. Anything else? Any final thoughts besides what we already wish Dana white? Tom, I seem to still have reservations, man. You still have a little bit of anger.

Mike [01:38:46]:
She esteems those people, bro.

Tommy [01:38:50]:
Well, I would say it just makes me.

Eldar [01:38:54]:
So, Tom, you're part of the cancel culture, right?

Mike [01:38:56]:
Yeah.

Tommy [01:38:56]:
I don't think so. No. But I do. I do believe absolutely.

Guest [01:39:03]:
Is.

Eldar [01:39:04]:
I'm part of the cancel culture.

Guest [01:39:06]:
I don't really understand cancel culture in the first place, so I can't. I can't really have a proper say on it.

Eldar [01:39:12]:
Wow. Politically sad.

Mike [01:39:14]:
Cancel culture is when you be a hypocrite at. When other people do shit that you do behind closed doors, and then you judge them for try to ruin because.

Guest [01:39:22]:
It makes no sense to me. Just like, what?

Mike [01:39:25]:
Well, that's the way the world operates. We're all hypocrites, you know?

Eldar [01:39:30]:
So, Tom, you're saying you a hypocrite?

Mike [01:39:32]:
Yes, of course.

Tommy [01:39:33]:
I'm more a hypocrite than a fraud. I think that's a truth.

Mike [01:39:37]:
Is that better to be a hypocrite or better to be a fraud?

Tommy [01:39:43]:
I think the fraud is.

Eldar [01:39:44]:
I'm not sure how. I think those are cousins.

Tommy [01:39:46]:
I think the fraud is someone who's hiding another self.

Eldar [01:39:50]:
Right.

Mike [01:39:50]:
Hypocrite. You know, he's a hypocrite.

Eldar [01:39:52]:
Hold on. Let me.

Tommy [01:39:53]:
Let me finish this thought. The fraud is somebody who. Hiding another self on the outside, showing themselves as one person.

Eldar [01:40:01]:
But that's all the time, Tom. I'll find examples.

Tommy [01:40:03]:
I think I'm more of a hypocrite. I think I'm.

Eldar [01:40:05]:
I think you have both. Depends on the.

Tommy [01:40:07]:
About the actions that I take.

Eldar [01:40:08]:
Yeah.

Tommy [01:40:09]:
And inconsistent in terms of carrying out things that I would like to do.

Eldar [01:40:17]:
Correct.

Tommy [01:40:18]:
But being fraught, but still open about that inconsistency. I'm 100% open about this. So I think I'm more of a hypocrite because my actions turn on themselves. That's. That's like. I don't know. That's like my own view of things. It's a possibility.

Eldar [01:40:33]:
Yeah.

Tommy [01:40:34]:
And I don't want to. I want to. I want to be true to that. You know, I want to be truthful about it and take the consequences of.

Eldar [01:40:42]:
That that come along with it, what you set up.

Tommy [01:40:47]:
But you're. What did you say? You said that I don't. I don't buy into what. Like, I'm not.

Eldar [01:40:53]:
You're not buying it. Like, you. You want to punish him.

Tommy [01:40:56]:
Oh, the whole cancel culture thing?

Eldar [01:40:58]:
Yeah, cancel culture. You want to cancel him and then, like, forever be put away into, like, cancel culture jail.

Tommy [01:41:04]:
Well, I think. I think what generally, like, my experience has taught me is that I would like to gather something relevant about some proximal issue, and that's what makes me generally happier as a person, that I know that I'm providing something that is of value and that has its own consequences and its challenges. So, like, I see that as sort of being on a leadership path, but I see it also as huge responsibility of being attentive and hearing and seeing what's happening around me, because I don't want to be. I don't know. I could be sometimes unproductive, but I don't want to be unhappy. And I see that as the path. You find that path, I guess, as a leader, through being able to be completely self efficing. Like, saying, I'm humble, I'm modest.

Tommy [01:42:13]:
Please lead me and guide me. Is that the face of a person that says, lead me and guide me? Like, for fuck's sake, you're 24 hours after beating your wife. Guys, I just want you to know I've been thinking about this, and, you know, my family. I guess you see what I'm saying.

Mike [01:42:32]:
Oh, get it?

Eldar [01:42:33]:
Good, Tom. Good, good.

Mike [01:42:35]:
As long as we both on the same page, you believe in. They don't believe in justice. You believe in corrupt, corrupt justice. I'm happy that we agree on that.

Eldar [01:42:45]:
Yeah. Yeah. Well, thank you, Tom, for being honest.

Mike [01:42:51]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:42:51]:
You again express the same thing that usually you expressed at the end of podcast. You listen and understood nothing and said a whole bunch of stuff, but said nothing. And I appreciate that about you.

Tommy [01:43:04]:
Sorry. It must have been all the cheap. Yeah, back in high school.

Eldar [01:43:09]:
Yeah. Thank you for that. Good job, guys.

Tommy [01:43:16]:
I got that one from a guy named Tim.

Eldar [01:43:17]:
Good. That was great.

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