51. Anxious morning routines - podcast episode cover

51. Anxious morning routines

Dennis Rox
Jan 06, 2023•3 hr 34 min•Ep. 51
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Episode description

How can one address and alleviate life's sufferings effectively?

In Episode 51 of Dennis Rox, hosts Mike, Eldar, and Toliy engage with guest Tommy in a deep and multi-faceted discussion on the significance and execution of routines, and how self-assessment plays a crucial role in crafting a meaningful life. They explore different perspectives on morning routines, addressing the difficulties in aligning one's desires with daily actions. Eldar stresses the importance of self-love and kindness when setting up routines, while Tommy raises questions about the practicality and authenticity of such routines in fostering long-term happiness.

The conversation further delves into the nature of suffering and how it can act as a teacher, urging listeners to confront and understand their inner pain as a pathway to personal growth. The episode touches on societal expectations, personal attachments, and the need for genuine self-examination to break free from unproductive patterns. Through humorous exchanges and personal anecdotes, the hosts and guest underline the importance of being honest with oneself and taking concrete steps to improve one's life, ultimately questioning whether current routines genuinely lead to happiness or merely mask underlying unhappiness.

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Transcript

Eldar [00:00:00]:
On this week's episode, one that we present to ourselves the bullshit that we constantly feeding ourselves, and then we have to actually live it out. And a lot of times, we can't live it out. We can't bridge the gap between the two.

Tommy [00:00:09]:
At first, it's like, I'm super excited. Like, 90% excitement, 10% stress. But then the whole thing flips, and then it's like, 90% stress, 10% excitement.

Eldar [00:00:20]:
Yeah.

Tommy [00:00:21]:
It's basically like a couple and somebody and that person's boyfriend might be coming, so it's kind of gonna be like two couples.

Eldar [00:00:27]:
So on Thursday, it's mandatory for you to be a piss pig.

Tommy [00:00:29]:
I was sitting in french class once, and the teacher, she asked me something like. And I just sort of started talking about it. It had something to do with school, maybe. And I just kept going on and on and on. And she was like, you know, you're really like a politician because you keep talking in circles.

Mike [00:00:43]:
Yeah. You're just sold out. You're just another brick in the wall.

Eldar [00:00:57]:
All right, totally. What's the topic for today? Mandy, you wanted a very specific thing. The big thing that we've been talking about lately, guys, the last couple of days, is, number one, totally is anxiety, which has been a topic for a very long time. Obviously, you don't cure that overnight. And we got very deep, I would say, as Mike would say. What?

Mike [00:01:17]:
Deep?

Eldar [00:01:19]:
Yeah, we got really deep on it. Right. And we uncovered a couple of things. Right. And obviously, some of the things that he's struggling with when it comes to it, anxiety. And that thing is on the board was inability to jump. Right. Inability to jump, actually.

Eldar [00:01:37]:
Right. To start something, because he feels like before he even starts something, everything has already happened. He has a very good example. His morning routine is one of those examples you can bring up. Life is kind of happening to him, and he can't take the bull by its horns. It's just take the cleve by its horns and jump and do what he actually wants, you know? And the second thing is, he has struggled with do. Doing things with intention. Right.

Eldar [00:02:06]:
Yeah. Carrying that with you in order to kind of be more focused.

Toliy [00:02:12]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:02:12]:
So those are the two things. Right. Those are two things that are on the board. All right. I think a lot of the times that people that have trouble with jumping, as we called. Right. Being all in on themselves, on the plans that they have, like, Tom, a lot of the times. A lot of the times has very good ideas.

Eldar [00:02:30]:
Right, Tom. But I think that if you really uncover as to why you're not starting something. Right. It could be because of maybe underlying anxiety. You could probably relate to that as well. And what happens is then life passes, passes you by. Like this guy just said, right? For 20 years, he's been a piss pig because life has passed him by. He hasn't had a relationship.

Eldar [00:02:55]:
Nobody relates to him, understands him.

Tommy [00:02:57]:
Way to tie it in.

Eldar [00:02:59]:
Thank you. You know what I mean? And you discovered this. This alternative way of living, I guess, you know, in a shameful way, where you kind of accept that about yourself, you know? Yeah.

Tommy [00:03:15]:
Mike mentioned, like, last week. No, not the week before, because I wasn't here last week. He said, I don't know if it was on the podcast, but it was like failure to launch. You know, we sort of think about that as, like, tied with age. Reach. Your thirties can't really take off. And people call that failure to launch. And I love this because for me, that's where my mentally at.

Tommy [00:03:40]:
When I start thinking about Tom's aging, that whole thing, you know, it doesn't matter, like, what else I might be focused on. I sort of. I went to see this apartment yesterday, and the person showing me the apartment was almost my age, about, I'd say, I don't know, I'm guessing my age. And she asks, what took you so long to start school? Fuck.

Eldar [00:04:10]:
Oh, no.

Mike [00:04:11]:
Did you stun her or no, I.

Tommy [00:04:12]:
Put myself in the situation, you know, why did I do that? Why did I even mention. But I go, you know, thinking in my head, okay, I got it all under control because I got this thing, and I'm here. I know I'm there, but once I start talking about that, it's like I'm throwing for a loop.

Eldar [00:04:33]:
That's it. There's no chance he rents that apartment 100% that's been cursed. Yes or no? Totally.

Toliy [00:04:39]:
Yeah, she put the.

Eldar [00:04:41]:
That's it.

Toliy [00:04:42]:
She put the garlic on it.

Eldar [00:04:43]:
That's it. She put the garlic on it. Tom, thank you for sharing that. That's. It's as profound as your existence.

Tommy [00:04:51]:
I think that's what the phrase is all about, you know, it's like failure to launch is given to that particular group or something like that, you know?

Eldar [00:05:01]:
Well, yeah, in your case, I think, again, it's one of those things where because of the fact that it was. That question was raised, and you don't have no answer to that. You were taking for a spin or a loop, right? You were sideswiped. The thing is.

Tommy [00:05:11]:
No, no, I had the answer.

Eldar [00:05:12]:
You had everything planned.

Tommy [00:05:13]:
I feel myself getting anxious. I'm fumbling with my words. I'm saying, like, I'm saying maybe suggesting some things, you know, that I feel are expected. And I'm trying to do things to comfort that other person who's listening to me. And that's kind of where it's like, wait a second.

Toliy [00:05:31]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:05:31]:
That actually says a lot.

Tommy [00:05:32]:
Am I completely, like, out of my mind? Like, that's. That's what I'm thinking. I'm like, am I freaking crazy here?

Eldar [00:05:38]:
Or. You should have said it's.

Toliy [00:05:39]:
It's like a. You don't have time to go to school while busy being a CFO.

Eldar [00:05:44]:
Yeah.

Tommy [00:05:45]:
But I did find myself asking, like, a lot of questions about that particular moment. Um, not. Maybe not a lot of questions, because I would have mentioned them, but I did find myself thinking and reflecting on it, just repeating some of the stuff that happened in my head. So. And that really makes me question if I'm actually fulfilling this idea of that whole idea of a failure to launch.

Eldar [00:06:14]:
So totally everything has been said. There has to be some kind of feedback for you here where, you know, Tom maybe is an example for you as to where you can go if you'd like to. Right.

Toliy [00:06:28]:
Yeah.

Tommy [00:06:28]:
Is his face saying, I think we need a new topic, guys.

Eldar [00:06:35]:
Yeah. He's awfully quiet. Right? He described it very, very good. Yeah, right? Here he is. Right. He's thinking that he's doing something for himself. Happy Gojali planned everything out. It's a sunny day outside.

Eldar [00:06:50]:
It's a sunny day inside. All right. The next thing you know, somebody asks him a random question. The world asks him a random question that he has no answers to. And now he went on a rollercoaster or made believe.

Mike [00:07:05]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:07:06]:
And what happened? He ran away. He tucked his tail like my puppy and ran away.

Mike [00:07:11]:
Yeah. I think. I think that's interesting that what he just explained is that this person asked him questions and he didn't have answers to, but yet he's pursuing something that he might have answers to as well.

Eldar [00:07:25]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:07:26]:
And after he ran away.

Toliy [00:07:28]:
Right.

Mike [00:07:29]:
Took a shit and he ran away. He never examined those questions. Like, hey, yeah, actually, why am I doing this? Like, why am I going to school so late?

Eldar [00:07:36]:
Like, what the hell? You know?

Mike [00:07:38]:
Do I really want to go to school?

Eldar [00:07:39]:
No, but probably he has answers to those questions. He just never was probably faced with a question from a stranger. Mm hmm. Right. We're gonna ask him that. He has to actually vocalize it. Right.

Mike [00:07:50]:
One thing is good enough reasons why would you get anxiety, get flustered?

Eldar [00:07:55]:
Because there's two, there's two different lives that we live. There's an inside the internal life and life. Right. One that we present to ourselves the bullshit that we constantly feeding ourselves, and then we have to actually live it out. And a lot of times we can't live it out. We can't bridge the gap between the two.

Mike [00:08:10]:
Yeah, I think that's interesting.

Eldar [00:08:12]:
100%. 100%. And that's why what we talk about is a lot of times the people that have failure to launch or anxiety that is stopping them. Right. What's happening is actually the world is happening to them versus them happening to the world. Right. This is not a threatening question.

Mike [00:08:30]:
No, this is not.

Eldar [00:08:31]:
She didn't say anything out of the ordinary.

Mike [00:08:33]:
Right.

Eldar [00:08:34]:
Especially if we're talking about it now. Right. Reasonably. But to him, it was the scariest thing in the world that he has to address that while you vocalize it.

Tommy [00:08:45]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:08:46]:
You know, but I think internally he's been thinking about that. He has plenty of reasons as to.

Tommy [00:08:50]:
Why, like, meet at some, like, standard with them.

Mike [00:08:55]:
He doesn't have any of his own actual reasons why he wants to pursue this. That's why when he gets attacked, he can't stand on firm ground because it's like, it's fucked. You're not going to just say, oh, society told me.

Eldar [00:09:08]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:09:09]:
Or you're going to say, oh, actually, you know, I'm really passionate about this. I want to further my education because I genuinely want to grow as a person for, and I have a, you know, a lot of interest in this.

Toliy [00:09:20]:
Right.

Tommy [00:09:20]:
That to me, it's sort of like, that's gold. What you just said is right. There's absolutely no incorrect way of going about it by saying it like that. You know, if I said, oh, yeah, I'm going to school because I want to give my professors, l. And I want to be better than everybody else. That doesn't really make sense.

Mike [00:09:37]:
Exactly.

Toliy [00:09:38]:
No, but also, like, he could, like, if, like, if he, I guess, thought these things through, he could have just easily, like, flipped that.

Eldar [00:09:45]:
Right.

Toliy [00:09:45]:
And said, like, oh, who told you? I took a long time.

Eldar [00:09:48]:
Correct, correct. I agree with you 100%. There where you now challenge, you give the push back.

Toliy [00:09:53]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:09:54]:
To the individual who's challenging you is to say, hey, like, and then probably she wasn't even challenged if she just asking them the question. Right.

Toliy [00:10:00]:
A joke. Right. But the question is like, she's coming into it with an assumption saying that you are late.

Eldar [00:10:05]:
That's right. To some party.

Toliy [00:10:07]:
Yeah. That means that she, she's, she's been a judger. Or, like, she's learned how to be, like, how to judge what the correct timeline is for something like this.

Eldar [00:10:15]:
Yeah.

Toliy [00:10:16]:
Like, who told her that, you know? Yeah, right.

Tommy [00:10:19]:
And I'm also talking to somebody who doesn't have it so bad, you know, working on, about to finish a PhD.

Eldar [00:10:27]:
Mm hmm.

Tommy [00:10:27]:
That's like, she's not in the back.

Toliy [00:10:29]:
So she's been in school for a while, too.

Mike [00:10:31]:
She carries a little bit of clout.

Tommy [00:10:33]:
So how did you ask it again? What was your question?

Toliy [00:10:35]:
I'm saying is that maybe it stumped you because what she said kind of not just reminded you, but is maybe reminiscent to something that your own thoughts.

Tommy [00:10:45]:
Have you ever thought considered, like, you.

Mike [00:10:47]:
Know, what I am?

Toliy [00:10:48]:
You know, like, these kids in my class are, like, you know, a lot.

Tommy [00:10:52]:
Younger than me, how I'm wrong about thinking like that? Yeah, I've considered that absolutely. How I'm absolutely wrong about thinking of myself as not fitting into the environment and not putting myself down and not having to have an excuse for anybody. I've definitely thought about that.

Toliy [00:11:08]:
Okay.

Tommy [00:11:10]:
And then you have somebody who, you know, like, to me, I sort of see them as being maybe, like, the definition of, like, clear thinking. Ask that question, you know, and then it's like, oh, my God.

Toliy [00:11:27]:
Like, why are they the definition.

Tommy [00:11:29]:
I have to come up with the PhD.

Eldar [00:11:30]:
Well, you just said it.

Toliy [00:11:31]:
Because they're in a PhD thing.

Eldar [00:11:33]:
That's. Yes. And he was also the guy who would judge other people for them not being on time. You understand? He has that same schema. He's bought in, into that supposed to be. You know, this has to be done by this.

Toliy [00:11:48]:
Like what? Like, strike him, because he just confirmed that, you know?

Eldar [00:11:54]:
Yeah, he just confirmed that.

Tommy [00:11:56]:
Oh, no, it's over there. There's nothing in there.

Eldar [00:11:59]:
Oh, I felt like. So I'll put it there.

Toliy [00:12:02]:
Whatever.

Eldar [00:12:04]:
You don't. You don't. Who put it there?

Tommy [00:12:06]:
Arch.

Eldar [00:12:06]:
Yeah. He's like, yeah. So I don't know. Yeah, I think you might. I think Mike is right, because you haven't thought things through. You're not sure of yourself. You don't. You don't know, like.

Toliy [00:12:19]:
Like, stand, like, firmly behind this thing to begin.

Eldar [00:12:22]:
Correct. You're on shaky ground to begin with. So anybody who's, like you said, is a clear thinker about something like that and straightforward, you can't go against. So you can't go toe to toe with them.

Toliy [00:12:33]:
No, because they're doing something that they're, like, sure of.

Eldar [00:12:37]:
Yeah.

Toliy [00:12:37]:
And that they actually really want to do and have good reasons for, especially.

Eldar [00:12:41]:
If you esteem them. Right. She's doing a PhD, so if she's doing a PhD, that's something he wants to do. Yeah, that's it.

Toliy [00:12:47]:
Yeah. Like, or what? Like, I mean, like, this definitely probably be more mean, but what if he's like, how long have you been, like, if he's like, well, took me a long time because I've been a bit slow with this. How long have you been wasting yours for?

Eldar [00:12:58]:
Yeah, but you have to be able. I know where you're going with that, and I know what. Why you might be able to say that because you could have a conversation on that topic. Right. Yeah, but it's very. I think he's far from being able to.

Toliy [00:13:08]:
No, but I'm just thinking that I.

Tommy [00:13:10]:
Came out of it realizing.

Eldar [00:13:12]:
But, yeah, but you are. No, but, you know, if the person is actually understands and can go with you through that conversation, you have to be able to hold your own.

Toliy [00:13:20]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:13:21]:
You can't.

Toliy [00:13:21]:
That would like, reverse stunt someone. Right.

Eldar [00:13:23]:
It could, like, they.

Toliy [00:13:25]:
They would freeze.

Eldar [00:13:25]:
They could.

Mike [00:13:28]:
They're standing strong in your shirt. They have no reason to freeze.

Eldar [00:13:31]:
Yeah.

Toliy [00:13:31]:
Majority of people, when you don't have.

Mike [00:13:33]:
To think about the answers that you know them, you have your reasons, right? Why would you get stumped?

Toliy [00:13:37]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:13:37]:
You know.

Toliy [00:13:38]:
No, for sure. I'm saying that majority of people, I think, probably don't.

Mike [00:13:41]:
That's. That's a possibility. But I think that's. I think that's what we're trying to discuss.

Toliy [00:13:46]:
Well, when I.

Tommy [00:13:46]:
When I left there, I was like, hold on. I'm not here to actually meet friends.

Mike [00:13:51]:
See, he sounded.

Tommy [00:13:52]:
But no, I'm actually here as one of a few tenants. And I realized this before when I emailed, I realized like, whoa, if I'm not, like, mindful in the way that I communicate, this could really end up not the way I want it to be, 100%. And that's what really screwed with me. It was like, well, there's going to be somebody who out there wants to rent and just happens to have that one little sort of characteristic that makes that person rent to them, that pushes them to allow that person to come and rent over me.

Eldar [00:14:29]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Tommy [00:14:31]:
So. And that's what I left thinking. I was like, wait a second. Like everything here matters. You know what I mean?

Eldar [00:14:40]:
Yeah. Like you came to an interview unprepared, something like that.

Tommy [00:14:45]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:14:46]:
You felt small leaving, and.

Tommy [00:14:49]:
And, you know, she asks, like, what? Is there anything else that you want to, like, share with me? Share with us. Oh, shit. I I didn't come here with questions. Like, I didn't come here, like, mentally asking myself, what else do I want to know? I saw the room. I saw the place. It was like, all right, how come.

Eldar [00:15:04]:
You didn't tap into two podcasts ago when we actually discovered your essence?

Tommy [00:15:10]:
Tap into what?

Eldar [00:15:11]:
Oh, your essence.

Tommy [00:15:12]:
My essence?

Eldar [00:15:13]:
Yeah. Come. You didn't tell him about the essence? Like, his essence.

Tommy [00:15:18]:
The essence of.

Eldar [00:15:19]:
Well, it seems like a person asked him, like, yo, uh, why are you going to be the candidate to come here and rent from us? Right? How are you going to be reliable? How are you going to be a good tenant that you're not going to break stuff, not throw crazy parties? That's what they're asking. Like, you want to add anything to your case, because there's going to be another 100 people asking for this apartment. And if Tom had nothing to say, I said, I'm asking, why did he not talk about his essence? Which is, Tom is a very special being.

Toliy [00:15:46]:
And before we continue the conversation for contextual purposes, Tom, how much was the rent for this place?

Eldar [00:15:53]:
55.

Tommy [00:15:54]:
25 30.

Eldar [00:15:56]:
What? Yeah.

Tommy [00:15:57]:
530 bus.

Mike [00:15:58]:
It's a. It's not a house. It's not an apartment. It's a room.

Eldar [00:16:01]:
Oh. It's a room with other people?

Tommy [00:16:03]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:16:09]:
Oh, my God.

Toliy [00:16:14]:
How many people are in the apartment?

Tommy [00:16:17]:
Uh, five. It's basically, like, a couple and somebody and that person's boyfriend might be coming, so it's kind of gonna be, like two couples.

Eldar [00:16:25]:
So on Thursday, it's mandatory for you to be a piss pig.

Tommy [00:16:31]:
Is there any correlation? Like, is there any connection?

Mike [00:16:34]:
Of course.

Eldar [00:16:35]:
Well, you know what I'm saying.

Mike [00:16:36]:
You don't have to be in the pool to be a piss.

Tommy [00:16:38]:
Okay, so here's.

Eldar [00:16:39]:
Let me.

Tommy [00:16:39]:
Let me tell you about a little flip side. There's another. There's, like, a sort of subtle, you know, subtlety to this. I thought to myself, wait a second. I'm going to do this thing, which I want to do. I want to be moving into a place. Like, it's funny. Like, at first, it's like I'm super excited.

Tommy [00:17:00]:
Like, 90% excitement, 10% stress. But then the whole thing flips, and then it's like, 90% stress, 10% excitement. After you get through this and you meet the person, and they take you through and everything, and you're like, oh, you know, my time's gone.

Eldar [00:17:15]:
You couldn't carry it through. Yeah, okay.

Tommy [00:17:16]:
I was like, what if it's the people who are no good for me, but the environment, that is good for me. You know what I mean? The room's great, but it's the people who you're putting yourself into that environment, not liking.

Eldar [00:17:37]:
You.

Tommy [00:17:37]:
See what I'm saying? I know it's kind of a difficult thing, but realize, what if, what if that kind of person, he's saying, what.

Toliy [00:17:48]:
If he likes the place physically, but he doesn't like the people he's rooming with.

Tommy [00:17:54]:
Exactly. And look, this is a very, this very easy case.

Eldar [00:17:57]:
Yeah, but he's not going there for the people.

Toliy [00:17:59]:
No, but he's rooming with people, so that's, that's important to him.

Mike [00:18:02]:
It's the comfort zone thing.

Toliy [00:18:04]:
Yeah, like you're gonna live with.

Eldar [00:18:05]:
Did you ask, did you ask her if, did you ask her for a chance to interview the roommates?

Tommy [00:18:09]:
I I met the other roommate.

Toliy [00:18:11]:
Yeah.

Tommy [00:18:11]:
He seemed like a cool guy.

Eldar [00:18:12]:
Mm hmm.

Tommy [00:18:15]:
But, uh, but I mean, I'm not saying that I didn't particularly like them, but I asked myself, like, what if, uh, what if there are certain kinds of, um, quirks? Yeah. Little things. See, I think this is where we meet expectations. It's like.

Toliy [00:18:32]:
You'Re all aware I'm clean. I don't make any noise, but I. If you guys don't mind, can you just piss on me?

Tommy [00:18:42]:
Yeah. I mean, look, we can save water, I guess. Look, why would I not rent to you if you're a clean guy, if you sleep early, which means you'll be quiet or whatever. Like, let's say you meet all the right things. All the right. You know, you take off all the boxes, like, you're quiet, you're clean. You. You don't even eat at the house.

Tommy [00:19:04]:
You eat out all the time.

Toliy [00:19:06]:
You.

Tommy [00:19:07]:
What else? You respect.

Eldar [00:19:09]:
You meet all the criteria of stalker.

Tommy [00:19:11]:
You meet all the criteria for being a good tenant.

Toliy [00:19:15]:
Right? Yes.

Tommy [00:19:18]:
Like, why not rent in particular to you? That's.

Toliy [00:19:22]:
Well, no, if you, well, that's the thing is, I think different people have different criteria, first off and then second off. I think that if you're. Yeah, I think that if you are meeting the criteria and you are the best fit and they're probably going to rent you.

Eldar [00:19:37]:
Yeah. I think the thing is, he's, he's trying to flip it and make it his choice versus their choice.

Toliy [00:19:42]:
Right?

Eldar [00:19:42]:
Now, first he's their choice. Right. They have to make a choice whether or not he's fit. However, what's more important to Tom, at least the way I know Tom, is who he's rooming them with. Right.

Toliy [00:19:52]:
Yeah, but I don't think Tom being how Tom is, and I think, like, how he likes to do things. I don't see him rooming the forum.

Eldar [00:20:00]:
The people agree with you 100%. There is no chance.

Toliy [00:20:03]:
Yeah, no chance.

Eldar [00:20:04]:
There's no chance. I think Tom can room with one person. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Based on what we know about Tom.

Toliy [00:20:09]:
Studio guy. Yeah.

Eldar [00:20:10]:
And his ability to zoom in on things, there's no chance Tom. Tom's gonna be comfortable anywhere.

Toliy [00:20:18]:
Yeah. Tom's more like a studio guy.

Eldar [00:20:20]:
He's a studio loaner guy.

Toliy [00:20:22]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:20:22]:
Who needs to be left alone. Yes. You know what I mean? Don't know what kind of, like, what you projecting out there, what image you think is gonna happen or.

Tommy [00:20:32]:
Yeah. So.

Eldar [00:20:34]:
But we do not, like, everybody just said it, so we do not think that you're a roommate.

Tommy [00:20:38]:
I definitely don't think that I'm. Yeah. The thing is, I don't. I don't think that I'm gonna be of any kind of, like, not gonna really be a pest to anybody. Um, but I don't think you're gonna be.

Eldar [00:20:50]:
Yeah. Everybody else.

Tommy [00:20:52]:
But I did. I did have in mind something that, like, might be troublesome, in a way, for the mentality. Okay. For example, let's say you're great. You meet all the criteria. Here it is. You go to, you know, you take that. You take out the apartment and everything.

Tommy [00:21:10]:
You move in. But then something changes. We don't consider that. You know what I mean? You meet all the criteria, but then over time, you just don't have, like, the. Let's say, the. That strength. You don't have that.

Toliy [00:21:26]:
What are you talking about?

Tommy [00:21:27]:
Like, what I'm talking about is if I were to go to school, right? And things just start out at school, and things don't really work out for me. I'm going to become the person who they didn't want to rent to. You know what I'm saying?

Toliy [00:21:42]:
No, I don't.

Tommy [00:21:43]:
Okay. So at first, I might seem, like, great. Like, it's like, the person who smiles. They look fine. Nothing otherwise is, like, rings. Rings. Any flags? Yeah, no red flags. But.

Tommy [00:21:54]:
But then something happens, you know, and that something just happens to be that in that related environment, like the school environment. So maybe your classes are now, like, piling up, and you become a slob. You know, you become exactly the opposite of what they thought they were going to be.

Eldar [00:22:10]:
So, Tom, we understood. We understood what you're saying, and I think that you were describing perfectly.

Tommy [00:22:14]:
That's the idea of failure.

Eldar [00:22:16]:
To launch. Right. Because you're very good. Right. At maybe foreseeing and stopping yourself from actually actualizing whatever it is that you want to do. Right. And that's exactly what we're talking about regarding Tony stuff. He said we put on the board that everything is already done.

Eldar [00:22:35]:
Before you get started, can you elaborate that on that? He just played out the whole thing right there. Yeah.

Toliy [00:22:41]:
I mean, like, we could talk about a basic thing, I guess, may. I mean, like, I don't want to say all people.

Eldar [00:22:48]:
Yeah.

Toliy [00:22:48]:
But my hunch is that there's. I don't know. I don't know if any of you guys have it, but I do know that. I mean, I think that. That people have this. That, like, they go to bed. Right. Probably with.

Toliy [00:23:01]:
With no intention of mind, like, most of the time, unless there's something outside the ordinary for that next morning or, like, next day. Like, I don't know if it's the first day of school, your night before is probably, like. You probably have some kind of intention.

Eldar [00:23:16]:
Right.

Toliy [00:23:16]:
Like, for that. But if it's just, like, school day number 115.

Eldar [00:23:20]:
Mm hmm.

Toliy [00:23:20]:
There's no, like, particular thing.

Tommy [00:23:22]:
Right.

Eldar [00:23:22]:
Yeah.

Toliy [00:23:23]:
So I think that when people go to bed, or maybe just in general, if they're thinking. I do think that. That people have, like, a general idea of what, like, a good morning would.

Eldar [00:23:34]:
Look like if you ask them. Yeah.

Toliy [00:23:36]:
If you ask them. Right.

Eldar [00:23:38]:
Yeah.

Toliy [00:23:38]:
And, you know, they might list you certain things that, like, are part of that. You wake up. I don't know. Energetic. Right. Like, nothing really hurts. You had really good, deep sleep, and you feel, like, well rested.

Eldar [00:23:54]:
Mm hmm.

Tommy [00:23:56]:
I was just. Are these all thoughts in bed as you. When you open your eyes and you look at.

Eldar [00:23:59]:
Well, I don't know.

Tommy [00:24:00]:
You say your slippers somewhere they could.

Toliy [00:24:01]:
Be, but I'm saying in general, like, you probably have an idea right now as to what a good morning looks like. A good morning that would look like tomorrow, for example, for you. And the thing is that I was.

Tommy [00:24:17]:
Actually Eldar, that if I had his hot water dispenser, I'd have coffee every morning. I can see myself at the counter every morning making that cup of coffee with that hot water dispenser out of convenience.

Eldar [00:24:28]:
Tom, he's going somewhere with this.

Tommy [00:24:30]:
Okay.

Eldar [00:24:30]:
And if you can, I'm affirming that.

Tommy [00:24:32]:
I understand that part.

Eldar [00:24:33]:
Oh, God.

Tommy [00:24:34]:
I could see myself doing that.

Eldar [00:24:37]:
Yeah. That's not what he's trying to say.

Toliy [00:24:38]:
I'm saying your means right now, with your means, I could also picture having.

Tommy [00:24:42]:
A butler I still do.

Toliy [00:24:43]:
It brings me my dispensers in the.

Eldar [00:24:46]:
Kitchen where you could just jump right in. Yes. Right after you wake up. Yes. That's also a possibility. Yes.

Toliy [00:24:51]:
Yeah. Right. I'm talking about within your means right now and your current situation. You probably have an idea as to what a good morning would. Would be or what you would like your morning to be. The question is, like, how many times does that actually happen? Like, like when you go to bed the previous night, do you think about, hey, I'm probably gonna get started.

Tommy [00:25:12]:
Can I, can I. Can I answer this question? I have an answer. They might, you know, but I think it might worry you a little bit.

Toliy [00:25:19]:
So which question?

Tommy [00:25:20]:
What if I told you every time.

Mike [00:25:23]:
What?

Tommy [00:25:24]:
Every time that it is like that. Every time it is the way I want it to be. Every time.

Mike [00:25:29]:
Well, you can want anything you, you know, but doesn't mean that you're actually living that.

Eldar [00:25:34]:
She says yes. Yeah, I mean, yeah, well, she's saying.

Tommy [00:25:39]:
That, I mean, like, you do, you do. We wake up every morning, right? Like we do. Put our feet in our shoes every morning.

Eldar [00:25:48]:
Is that what, that's what, that's what you thought about last, like the previous night? Like, hey, I want to just wake up and put my shoes on. No, I haven't missed. I haven't missed that part.

Tommy [00:26:01]:
Wait, so does the. You said you have a good idea about the morning, right? I mean, that good idea, if you.

Eldar [00:26:07]:
Ask most people what a good morning looks like to them, they'll have an idea. They'll give you a picture, right? Wake up rested.

Tommy [00:26:15]:
You're telling me if I come into your office tomorrow at twelve, or let's say I come into your office tomorrow at like, at noon, and I'm like, hey, can you tell me about your good idea, your idea for a good morning? You would say, get the fuck out of my office, I got lunch to eat or something like that.

Eldar [00:26:32]:
This is true, right?

Toliy [00:26:33]:
But this is also true. Yeah, but if that didn't happen, I'm sure that everybody here has a good picture of what a good morning looks like for them.

Eldar [00:26:41]:
Why?

Tommy [00:26:42]:
And the question was, I was saying, yeah, I get it, I get it.

Eldar [00:26:45]:
But why?

Tommy [00:26:46]:
Why does everyone. I mean, can we go around and talk about our excellent mornings? Like, can we guys want to do that?

Eldar [00:26:52]:
We can, Tom, but I would assume that we have. We have an idea. I can give you an idea, too.

Tommy [00:26:58]:
You want to share? Maybe just like a brief, like.

Eldar [00:27:00]:
Okay, yeah, sure. I wake up well rested, I feel good, right? I stretch a little bit. Right. The old bones, you know, wash my face, brush my teeth, take Archie out for a walk, you know. Yeah. Have breakfast and then on my way to work, that kind of thing. Okay, so I have an idea. But no, do I don't take him out for a walk every.

Eldar [00:27:27]:
Every morning. No, I don't stretch every morning. I happen to brush my teeth every morning. Yeah.

Tommy [00:27:33]:
That's working for me. Has Eldar met the criteria for what everyone's idea of a good morning might look like? By what?

Eldar [00:27:40]:
Tom, this is not the point. But.

Toliy [00:27:42]:
That's not the point.

Tommy [00:27:42]:
What you said was. Well, essentially what you're saying is we have good mornings. That though we have ideas of good mornings, but we don't always meet the idea for good mornings. But essentially you're saying everyone has one. And so for me it was like, well, I have an idea of what my morning should look like and it always does look like that, but it doesn't necessarily have to be that idea that you're saying. That sort of results in something that you don't end up doing. So Eldar's idea of a good morning.

Eldar [00:28:18]:
So, example of the good morning, it does not apply to Tom.

Mike [00:28:22]:
Fine.

Eldar [00:28:22]:
Fine. To shake Tom's morning.

Toliy [00:28:25]:
He's okay with it being he's hundred back on chocolate.

Mike [00:28:27]:
He hits 100 every time he bets.

Eldar [00:28:29]:
A thousand on his mornings. Yeah.

Mike [00:28:31]:
He doesn't.

Toliy [00:28:31]:
So he doesn't wake up wanting to go to library at nine and end up there at three.

Eldar [00:28:35]:
No, no. It always works out the way it does.

Mike [00:28:37]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:28:38]:
Okay.

Mike [00:28:38]:
Yes.

Eldar [00:28:39]:
So can we work off of that? Can you? We just put like this. Most of the use the word most of the people. Probably not Tom.

Toliy [00:28:45]:
Probably not Tom.

Eldar [00:28:46]:
Yeah.

Toliy [00:28:46]:
As a one out of one individual doesn't suffer from. From this. Yeah.

Eldar [00:28:50]:
Yeah.

Toliy [00:28:50]:
So for the rest of us. Right.

Eldar [00:28:54]:
Mortals.

Toliy [00:28:54]:
Mortals, right. Yeah. What happens? I think that is, again, like, you have this idea, you have this scenario, and the reality is, I think that probably. My guess is that for most people, it doesn't always play out. Even if you have an intention, you could wake up and penny might be barking at 06:00 a.m. maybe didn't account for that, or you didn't think about that. You wake up then and you get an extra hour of sleep and then you wake up then now you might feel kind of more groggy, not as well rested, more grumpy. Probably not going to go out for that morning walk.

Toliy [00:29:36]:
Yeah. Probably not going to stretch. You might be rushing out faster. So breakfast wasn't like digested as well right. And it wasn't enjoyed as much because you were maybe more on the fly versus, like, kind of relaxing.

Eldar [00:29:47]:
And I'm constipated because I ate too fast.

Toliy [00:29:49]:
Correct.

Eldar [00:29:50]:
Yeah.

Toliy [00:29:51]:
Right.

Eldar [00:29:51]:
What's the point, Thomas? Looking for the point.

Toliy [00:29:54]:
Yeah. So the point is that, like, I think there's a lot of people that have this image and then they don't, like, live it out, obviously.

Eldar [00:30:02]:
Yeah.

Toliy [00:30:03]:
Right.

Eldar [00:30:03]:
And then let me ask you this question. Maybe it'll help you. What are you trying to say?

Toliy [00:30:11]:
That's a good question. Whatever, Tommy. Did it work? Because now I'm 100 for 100.

Eldar [00:30:16]:
Yes.

Toliy [00:30:17]:
Now I'm in this camp on this camp morning thing.

Eldar [00:30:20]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. What you're trying to say is that a lot of times we have maybe perfect pictures about how we want to live our lives, but we actually don't.

Toliy [00:30:28]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:30:29]:
Right. We don't. We don't do the things that we actually want to do. Yeah.

Toliy [00:30:34]:
And I genuinely believe that we're not. We are, like, to some extent surprised by it.

Eldar [00:30:40]:
Surprised by every time. Hmm.

Toliy [00:30:44]:
Well, like, you don't get, like, the.

Eldar [00:30:46]:
Thing is, are we just not good at setting the right expectations from ourselves?

Toliy [00:30:49]:
Well, yeah, that's part of it, too. But, like, you don't go to bed and say, like, hey, you know what? Like, it's probably late. Probably gonna get real shitty sleep, right? I'm gonna wake up and, like, probably not gonna feel my left arm.

Eldar [00:31:06]:
Should you then.

Toliy [00:31:07]:
And.

Eldar [00:31:07]:
But should you have that conversation with yourself?

Mike [00:31:09]:
Yeah. I mean, to be honest with yourself.

Eldar [00:31:13]:
I say, okay, cool. Like, I have a good picture of this. However, in order for this picture to take place, number one criteria, I have to have good sleep. If I don't have good sleep, let's not even talk about stretching or having a walk outside. Right. You can push yourself past that. You can do it anyway, but it is no longer an enjoyment. I'm not enjoying myself through the second phase, the third phase, and the fourth phase, my morning routine.

Eldar [00:31:40]:
What I'm doing is I'm probably pushing myself or applying discipline, which we already ruled out, just to be the worst thing you can do for yourself. You know what I mean? Because that's not a form of self love. In that case, if you got. If you needed 8 hours of sleep, but you only got six and you feeling groggy, you should tell yourself, hey, I'm not gonna go for that walk, and I'm not gonna. I'm not gonna do that. What I'm gonna do is I'm gonna, what, in that case, is required of me is to actually walk very slowly today. Probably don't exercise, conserve my energy, eat less food. Let's just say, right, because I'm not going to need as much and stuff like that.

Eldar [00:32:18]:
So the plan has to adjust in accordance. And we a lot of times set wrong expectations for ourselves. Right. And then on the back end, if we don't do the walk or don't stretch, we become hard on ourselves. And that's removing the self love that we discussed and.

Toliy [00:32:32]:
Yeah, and it's hard because it's like you have this image of, like, what you, like, maybe expect or desire to happen, but you still get blindsided of it not happening. Even though it doesn't happen most of the time. It's not like in the movies where you, you know, they're showing somebody in a nice house and they wake up and they're just like, ugh, light in my eyes. All right, you know, I guess it's time to start this great day, right? Like, no, like, you wake up with all kinds of pains and sorenesses and headaches, right. And, like, thoughts and, like, things that you need to get done for the day that you may not want to do, things that you're behind on, payments you owe, right. Places you want to go, travel to and things you want to do or don't even want to do.

Eldar [00:33:26]:
Yeah.

Toliy [00:33:26]:
So you just, like, you wake up every morning with just, like, I think it's like a huge list of, like, things to do and just a huge burden and this huge expectation that, like, this is how it's gonna go and it just doesn't go that way. And then you're just always finding yourself.

Eldar [00:33:47]:
Like, you were becoming closer and closer to becoming a piss pig.

Toliy [00:33:51]:
Yeah, yeah, exactly. And trying to, like, push through, and then before you know it, you wake.

Eldar [00:33:57]:
Up and you go in the pit bull.

Toliy [00:33:58]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:33:59]:
Where the fuck am I? You know?

Tommy [00:34:06]:
Or. Yeah, you know, I'm not even gonna expand on that. That's terrible.

Mike [00:34:12]:
For God sake.

Tommy [00:34:13]:
I had some ideas.

Eldar [00:34:14]:
Yeah. So what you're saying, everything that you just said, I can put it under umbrella that we actually don't know ourselves at all.

Toliy [00:34:21]:
Yeah. And we're, like I said, I think the surprising thing to me is that every time this morning, for example, for giving that example doesn't go in that way, we feel some type of way about it.

Eldar [00:34:35]:
I agree with you, even though I.

Toliy [00:34:37]:
Agree with you, it is a thing that happens all the time. You do not wake up. You do not stretch out properly. You do not always get the same amount of rest or the same type of rest. You don't always sleep in the best positions or the same, like, way. You don't always have the same things to do the next day or, like, the same night that happened the night before.

Eldar [00:34:59]:
What are your suggestions? Give us a suggestion. You give us props. What are your suggestions to the people that actually, on the depression, that they're gonna fulfill this fantasy that's in their head. Yeah.

Toliy [00:35:09]:
They're gonna wake up and, like, write ten things that are great.

Eldar [00:35:13]:
Yeah.

Tommy [00:35:15]:
What do we talk?

Eldar [00:35:16]:
What is your suggestion? Totally. You're talking a lot of craziness. Yeah. I mean, exactly. Do nothing.

Toliy [00:35:22]:
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, like, the suggestion here is probably the best thing you could do, period, for yourself, is figure out. Figure out how can you ensure that you are being honest with yourself.

Eldar [00:35:39]:
Mmm.

Toliy [00:35:40]:
And if you can't have evidence that you can ensure that, then you're in big trouble.

Tommy [00:35:44]:
Yeah, that makes sense.

Eldar [00:35:46]:
So the trouble is also. It's also ignorant.

Tommy [00:35:49]:
So not walking arch every day, huh? That fits in.

Eldar [00:35:52]:
That fits well, no, yeah, yeah, yeah, no, I definitely. Yeah, it fits if it's. But I definitely don't struggle from, like, guilty conscious a lot of the time from, from that, because I try to think about that. I'm not this perfect visualizer and creator of that reality. So I try to go, I'll play by ear, as they say. You know what I mean? I wake up and if this is how I feel, I'll do it. If this is not how I feel, I don't do it. I kind of evaluate the situation, try to do my best.

Eldar [00:36:29]:
Yeah.

Toliy [00:36:29]:
And I also think that, like, if you felt that that was great every single time, every morning, you would probably do the things on the back end to protect yourself, to ensure that this is what happens.

Eldar [00:36:38]:
Correct. I agree with that. Yeah.

Tommy [00:36:41]:
So I have a routine in the morning that I'm kind of not as easily willing to talk and say, this is the way I do it.

Eldar [00:36:50]:
And I don't think you should on air because there's a lot of people that are willing to pay very good money for your morning routine. So if you want to know Tom morning routine, reach out to us. [email protected] and I think you could have a one on one session with Tom in order to not only hear out Tom's session. Right. His morning routine, but how he hits 100 for how he bats a thousand with his morning routine, but also for.

Mike [00:37:20]:
A special few, he's willing to come and sleep at your house so you guys can do the morning together in the same bed for even a more premium.

Eldar [00:37:28]:
Yeah, we got you, Tom.

Tommy [00:37:30]:
No pool required.

Mike [00:37:31]:
No pool required.

Eldar [00:37:33]:
Yes, yes, yes, Tom. Yeah. I think what you've discovered and how you go about it, it's invaluable.

Tommy [00:37:44]:
It's definitely something, right. To say. I have this great idea about what my morning could look like, me, my life could look like, and then think. But somebody is going to think something about that.

Eldar [00:38:00]:
You know what I mean? Yeah.

Tommy [00:38:02]:
Like, you live at home, right, with your own self. Like you live in your own home, right? What, if anything, stands in your way of, say, you know, laying out the cup of coffee the night before so that it's ready to go in the morning, and he's got a Wi Fi.

Toliy [00:38:22]:
Coffee maker having your.

Tommy [00:38:24]:
Having, let's say, your drawers full with, like, your laundry and stuff like that. Like, what keeps you from having that big m. That morning? Big m. What stands in the way?

Eldar [00:38:34]:
M. What's that monster?

Tommy [00:38:37]:
Oh, I've heard about this.

Toliy [00:38:38]:
Yeah. I mean, not nothing, but, I mean, realistically, nothing ever stands in the way but yourself in these kinds of things. But it's more about, like, there's, I think, a very big difference between, like, these kind of projections about, like. Like, I also believe that people who are saying this kind of stuff and obviously not doing it, like. Like, I don't think they understand at all what they're saying behind these, like, morning routines and, like, behind, like, what they want to do and stuff like that.

Eldar [00:39:11]:
Yeah.

Toliy [00:39:11]:
Why not? Well, because, like, there's a very big difference between a person who's living that out and if they're living it out and that it's serving them and they are truly enjoying themselves versus the person that it's just pondering about it. And the difference is that the ponderer has no idea what they want, why they want it, and what.

Tommy [00:39:38]:
It's what people do in the movies, right. They don't necessarily do them the way we expect it really might happen. Like, the way the movies make things out to be is kind of fake if you really think about it. So why would somebody's advice be or somebody's advice to the masses, like, sound kind of fake? Like, people who talk about morning routines? I don't know.

Eldar [00:40:02]:
He's like, you asking us, why this?

Tommy [00:40:07]:
Yeah, I'm guess. I'm guessing, like, you know, there are people out there who do give advice, but. Yeah, I don't know. I get a lot of the advice.

Eldar [00:40:13]:
Make money off of it.

Tommy [00:40:15]:
That's true.

Eldar [00:40:16]:
Even books we're just trying to sell you your morning routine to people because you bet a thousand that is, that's valuable and a lot of people are looking for to be able to bat a thousand. I see.

Toliy [00:40:27]:
I see.

Tommy [00:40:27]:
So are you just saying that some advice maybe is just advocates for too, too intense of a kind of moral?

Toliy [00:40:38]:
Talking about advice, I'm talking about things that people advise for themselves.

Eldar [00:40:44]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:40:44]:
This thing, you know, this thing.

Eldar [00:40:48]:
It'S.

Mike [00:40:49]:
It'S part of it is the chicken and egg. How do you guarantee have a good morning, have a guarantee, have a good night.

Eldar [00:40:54]:
Right.

Mike [00:40:54]:
Like you maybe that's how I kind of. How do you guarantee have a good night. Make sure you have a good day.

Eldar [00:40:59]:
Right.

Mike [00:40:59]:
Like, kind of. It's like who comes first, you know? But what I think he's describing is a person who wakes up in the morning and is a very specific person who's very maybe like has a. I don't know, I always, you know, I recently thought that in order to have a good life, you have to deserve a good life.

Eldar [00:41:20]:
Right.

Mike [00:41:20]:
What he's describing sounds like a good life. You go to sleep, you know, and you wake up in the morning, you feel good, you feel refreshed, you don't feel tired, you don't feel groggy, you don't like, you're not pissed off, you're not grumpy. You know, more than what's normal after sleeping like 8 hours or you got. Takes time to wake up.

Eldar [00:41:37]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:41:37]:
You know, and then you don't have these millions of thoughts bombarding you like he's saying.

Eldar [00:41:41]:
Right.

Mike [00:41:41]:
Or things that you want to do.

Eldar [00:41:43]:
So.

Mike [00:41:45]:
Yeah, I think. I think that that's what comes to mind for me.

Eldar [00:41:48]:
You know, to me more. What I've deduced from what he was saying is that it's almost impossible to make a prediction impossible and then actualize it. Okay.

Mike [00:42:01]:
About what? Having a good future. The future.

Eldar [00:42:05]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:42:06]:
Cover everything. Yeah.

Eldar [00:42:08]:
So my solution to that, right. Yeah. To what he's saying is that you evaluate as you go. Yeah. The night before. You talk about the night before.

Mike [00:42:18]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:42:20]:
In the morning you wake up and you evaluate where you stand. How do I feel?

Mike [00:42:25]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:42:25]:
Do I or do I not feel right now that I'm rested in order to go and work out at the gym? Honestly, have an honest conversation with yourself.

Mike [00:42:33]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:42:35]:
If I'm not. Because gym is an ex, you know, it takes. It takes a lot, right. To be good in the gym. Right. Then what other activity can I do in order to still feel good about myself, right. But not overdo it. I'll go for a walk.

Mike [00:42:52]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:42:53]:
Okay. For example, so if you have that ability to be able to slow down enough and then live your life with a particular intention to evaluate your state of being in that particular moment in time, I think you quickly find out that you realize what your body and your mind actually needs in that moment. And I told you that about, you know, you said, hey, Eldar, how about these things? And I said, hey, Mike, I'm just trying to solve very small things like sleep. Right. Let me get the sleep thing in order and then I can see how I can respond later, you know what I mean? And I obviously have an idea of how to solve. It's a chicken and the egg the night before. What are you doing? What is the routine? And I'm going to try to do that in order to accomplish that, but I'll evaluate based on that. So in the morning when I wake up and I say, okay, cool, I got good sleep.

Eldar [00:43:41]:
What can I get out of my good sleep today? You know what I mean? And then based on that, I think I'm displaying self love to myself and I'm engaging things that I want to do versus things that somebody has sold me to. Mm hmm.

Mike [00:43:53]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:43:54]:
Yeah.

Toliy [00:43:55]:
It's also like, like part of it sounds like a crapshoot. It's like, yeah. When it comes to like the consistency of things.

Tommy [00:44:03]:
Right.

Toliy [00:44:04]:
Let's say in your night routine the day before.

Eldar [00:44:07]:
Right.

Toliy [00:44:08]:
If you're doing different things every day, how are you expecting the same result in the morning?

Eldar [00:44:13]:
Right. I agree.

Toliy [00:44:15]:
Like, what if you're watching horror movies one night.

Eldar [00:44:17]:
Yeah.

Toliy [00:44:18]:
Then staying up late, then going to, and then a different night, going to bed early and watching like a, like, like comedy, for example, or like you drank before. Yeah.

Eldar [00:44:30]:
You didn't drink.

Toliy [00:44:31]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:44:31]:
How much water did you? Yeah. What time did you.

Toliy [00:44:34]:
Yeah. Eating dinner at nine. Eating dinner at six, snacking at eleven.

Eldar [00:44:38]:
Already sick. Yeah.

Toliy [00:44:40]:
Yeah, that's what I'm saying. You know?

Eldar [00:44:41]:
Yeah, sorry, I had, you said he.

Mike [00:44:43]:
Can'T let it go.

Eldar [00:44:45]:
Yeah. Yeah.

Tommy [00:44:46]:
So like, you can't, you can't spend three or 4 hours trying to fall asleep hoping to wake up at six. You know that too, that kind of thing.

Toliy [00:44:53]:
Right.

Eldar [00:44:54]:
A lot of times people will do that. Right.

Mike [00:44:55]:
What are you guys saying?

Eldar [00:44:57]:
Well, I made my suggestion. Yeah. You, you go as you, as you go as you go. Right. If you twisting and turning there, you know, till three in the morning. Right. But you had plans for seven in the morning. You have to be realistic with yourself just to say, okay, cool.

Eldar [00:45:11]:
I know myself at this point in time. Right. If you're in your thirties, like the gentleman on my right is. Right, you kind of know where you need to land with your sleep pattern in order to say, I feel good.

Mike [00:45:22]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:45:22]:
If you don't, you know, you're gonna miss it. You're gonna feel a certain type. Your eyes are red, your eyes are stingy. You know what I'm saying? Your body hard to walk. You know what I mean? Get through the basic stuff.

Tommy [00:45:35]:
Yeah. There's also, like, I think, just a huge loss in that. Kind of like, just feeling positive energy the day of waking up late. As that starts to become a pattern, there's this huge loss of positive energy. You know, waking up maybe perhaps on a weekend or something like that. Late is okay. But now I set my bedtime at like, 1030 to 1130. No, no later than 1130.

Tommy [00:46:04]:
No later than 1130. And sometimes I go to bed at nine, or I just try to wind down at nine, actually.

Eldar [00:46:11]:
And how come you can't answer basic questions to people when they ask you?

Tommy [00:46:15]:
Well, it's not. It's not necessarily that I'm trying to, like, sort of say, hey, you know, morning routines are great. And how are they great? I think that what we're actually dealing with is the same scenario. It's like being nervous about that routine suddenly becoming no longer a routine, and.

Eldar [00:46:37]:
That'S kind of letting go. We see that. Yeah. Because you also could have bought in into some nonsense that you conditioned yourself on doing, and now you're conditioned on doing it because somebody else sold you on it. Right. So letting go of it becomes scary now. Like, hey, wait a second. You guys just said I can wake up later or go to sleep a little bit later, but display of self love, no.

Eldar [00:46:57]:
Discipline is already in there. Yeah. So then you on the other side. Sure. He's betting a thousand, but what does it look like?

Tommy [00:47:06]:
Actually, you know what? I have a. I had a similar problem to this. Not so different. Not so different. And because, like, daily, because activity, sort of like the things that we do every day, they carry a sort of. So, like, think, like, just daily activity works like a process, you know, like, you know, for arch. Arch is a dog. Arch eats breakfast.

Tommy [00:47:35]:
He goes for his walk, where he gets to poop, and then he gets. Goes into the car. His dad with Eldar, he gets in the car, he goes to work, he has his toy, picks it up, walks around, he sleeps. That's his process, let's say.

Toliy [00:47:53]:
Right.

Tommy [00:47:55]:
Well, for us, it kind of works in a way of, like, gaining something, you know, gaining some value. And that's why, like, for us, I think it's just kind of, I don't know, it's sort of, sort of, it's frustrating because it works in a way that continues to bring value. You see what I'm saying? Like, arch cannot survive without food. He can't survive without water. He can't survive without. He definitely can't survive on his own. Just can't. Right, everybody.

Tommy [00:48:29]:
And I think that my issue a long time ago was that if I was not following the routine, I would get nothing. I'd be destitute, be worthless. So I had this idea in mind. I gotta work. I gotta work. I gotta read for, like, hours. I gotta read this and learn this and become general bullshit skilled.

Mike [00:48:58]:
Yeah, we knew that, Tom.

Eldar [00:48:59]:
We know what you're suffering.

Mike [00:49:00]:
We know. Yeah. You're just sold out. You're just another brick in the wall.

Eldar [00:49:04]:
Yeah, man. You're a waste of talent.

Tommy [00:49:07]:
I guess. I guess what's acknowledged here, though, without maybe it's subconsciously acknowledged for you guys, is that there's a specific idea that I have in mind that you guys don't know. You guys aren't aware of it. But what I literally mean is that there's value to be drawn from something, from the advice that you get from people. Let's say maybe it's from yourself and you don't know where you got it, how it got into your head. Right. The advice that you get about that routine. So if people say read books, or people say, work hard, if people say, whatever you doing now? You think, I gotta read books, what.

Eldar [00:49:49]:
Do you gotta work? Huh? What is he doing?

Mike [00:49:51]:
He's regurgitating.

Eldar [00:49:53]:
No, but he's doing a very specific thing that you were arguing for earlier today. Hmm.

Tommy [00:49:58]:
What is it?

Eldar [00:49:59]:
You do this stuff and then it becomes you. Yeah.

Toliy [00:50:04]:
Without understanding it correct or believing in it correct.

Eldar [00:50:08]:
Remember what?

Tommy [00:50:09]:
Remember what Eldar said last week? Oh, and actually, no, you didn't say this.

Toliy [00:50:13]:
Yeah, I do.

Tommy [00:50:13]:
I was listening a previous podcast.

Eldar [00:50:15]:
Yeah.

Tommy [00:50:17]:
What you. The first episode. Guys having fun? Eldar said there, there are expectations about what life is supposed to be, but I just want to say, fuck that. Basically, you said something like that. You were like, I just want to have fun. And that's what life is about. If it's about having fun and, like, you know, and being happy, it shouldn't be, you know, like, it shouldn't fit anybody's idea of what. What life.

Eldar [00:50:47]:
Yeah, but you're doing like the complete opposite. You didn't take the advice on.

Tommy [00:50:52]:
Well, no, I'm saying I had you.

Eldar [00:50:54]:
Being somebody else's guinea pig, bro.

Tommy [00:50:55]:
I had a similar fit.

Eldar [00:50:57]:
The mold of trying to fit the mold.

Toliy [00:50:59]:
Someone else's mold.

Eldar [00:51:00]:
Somebody else's mold that you didn't examine.

Toliy [00:51:02]:
No.

Tommy [00:51:02]:
Why she.

Eldar [00:51:03]:
The point of this type of shit, Tom, is to figure out if we can get to the truth collectively. Objective truth. Right. And then hopefully align ourselves with it. This is not somebody else. This is not my idea.

Tommy [00:51:18]:
One more time.

Eldar [00:51:19]:
What did you say? What I'm saying is that by thinking, by reasoning, by trying to critically think, we're trying to figure out what. What is the actual truth, what is an objective truth about us as people, human beings. Right. And how we fit into this reality in such a way that brings us happiness, true happiness. Right. This is not somebody else's ideas who's going to tell you what to do and how to do it. Right. It is ultimately you telling yourself what to do and how to do it based on your own deduction of reasoning that you tapped into the actual objective truth about the matter, how we as humans work and what works for us.

Toliy [00:51:55]:
Right.

Tommy [00:51:56]:
Right.

Eldar [00:51:57]:
This is not some kind of routine that you're trying to shove in down somebody else's throat. Right. And do it long enough. You'll see. You know what I mean? It is a very specific, custom built situation for you as a human being that actually works for you where you are not just throwing shit at the wall and see what sticks. There's no. You throw it and it sticks because you fucking know it's gonna stick.

Tommy [00:52:21]:
Yes. Yeah.

Eldar [00:52:22]:
Make sense or no?

Tommy [00:52:23]:
Yeah, it does.

Eldar [00:52:26]:
So why are you following some nonsense, though?

Tommy [00:52:27]:
I'm not.

Eldar [00:52:28]:
Okay, cool.

Tommy [00:52:29]:
But I will say that there's something about that. It's like, you know, I don't know whether it's. Whether it's because we feel like there's a process that by the end of the day, work needs to get done. I mean, sure.

Eldar [00:52:41]:
Talk about attachments.

Toliy [00:52:42]:
If you're just really. You have to show me just throwing.

Tommy [00:52:45]:
And you're seeing what sticks. I mean. No, actually, if you're. If you just.

Eldar [00:52:49]:
Yeah, you're working backwards time. What you're saying is that you have a very serious desire that needs to be fulfilled. And if you.

Tommy [00:52:54]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:52:54]:
And because you can't let go of that attachment, to that desire, you need to follow a certain structure which is given to you by certain people that maybe showed you competency in achieving that desire and.

Tommy [00:53:05]:
And disappointment in that the desires will never be fulfilled. That has to be included in that.

Eldar [00:53:11]:
What? Yeah, I don't know how you got to that point.

Tommy [00:53:14]:
The desire actually, it sort of doesn't address the problem. You see, I'm saying.

Eldar [00:53:20]:
Well, you know, it doesn't address the actual problem that you're actually are unhappy on inside. You just don't know why you aren't happy. So you're assuming that that desire will make you happy. Therefore, you following whatever else some other person's telling you to do, which also.

Toliy [00:53:33]:
Makes sense, someone else to take for you.

Eldar [00:53:38]:
You have to pay them. Yeah. And you have to also pay them.

Tommy [00:53:42]:
I mean, I can't say how many times work for you.

Eldar [00:53:46]:
Correct, correct. Just crazy. It is crazy.

Toliy [00:53:50]:
Yeah. I think ultimately, like, I don't know how many people, you'll find the excuse that, like. Like, they don't have the means to do what they want to do.

Eldar [00:54:02]:
Oh.

Toliy [00:54:03]:
I mean, like, like, I have the resources.

Eldar [00:54:06]:
Yeah.

Toliy [00:54:06]:
The capital and everything I need at my fingertips. To do what? This dream routine that anybody here could think of.

Eldar [00:54:15]:
Correct.

Toliy [00:54:16]:
Whatever you want. I have enough room in my basement to get a sauna built if I wanted to. Like, I can find a way to get a hot tub, like anything you want.

Eldar [00:54:26]:
Right.

Toliy [00:54:26]:
Like, I have a sick coffee machine. I have. I can cook really good breakfast meals.

Eldar [00:54:32]:
Correct.

Toliy [00:54:32]:
Right. Like, I can afford these groceries.

Eldar [00:54:35]:
I need. I have all.

Toliy [00:54:37]:
Everything. So, like, there. There's something to point that. Where you could be like, well, I don't have access to Internet, so I can't learn or something. Like, I don't think that you have many actual things like this, but I do feel that people have reasons that stopping them from doing these things.

Eldar [00:54:56]:
I mean, they have to.

Toliy [00:54:57]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:54:57]:
That's the only way that. The only way they can justify their own existence.

Toliy [00:55:01]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:55:01]:
They're the measly existence.

Tommy [00:55:03]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:55:04]:
Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Without it hurting too much. Yeah.

Toliy [00:55:07]:
So how do we route back now to what, I guess, like, the point.

Eldar [00:55:12]:
Well, the whole point is the fact that life is which we identify a lot of things that this pointing to the fact that life is happening to us and we're not happening into life.

Toliy [00:55:21]:
Yeah. Yeah. There. Yeah, yeah. I think it also has to do with, like, feeling confined.

Eldar [00:55:27]:
Right, right, yeah.

Toliy [00:55:28]:
To, like, needing to do things a certain way or like, oh, he just.

Eldar [00:55:32]:
Said that the reason why he has to do a certain type of way because of desires, he has certain attachments. Therefore he feels like this is the way it's got to be done. Right. Where this challenge of what we're talking about here, it's. You have to pave a new way alone.

Toliy [00:55:49]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:55:51]:
And that's. Nobody wants to do that.

Toliy [00:55:53]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:55:54]:
It's a scary thing, you know? Yeah.

Toliy [00:55:58]:
Because you might have to come terms that. Well, what works for you is that you may need to be the guy who wakes up at 11:00 a.m. at.

Eldar [00:56:05]:
Correct.

Toliy [00:56:05]:
Am.

Eldar [00:56:06]:
In order to create a Picasso painting that Tom has the ability to do.

Toliy [00:56:09]:
Yeah. That, like, that mole, that guy that said, you got to be up at six.

Mike [00:56:12]:
Mm hmm.

Toliy [00:56:13]:
And eat an apple first thing in the morning, that may not work for you. And I don't think that.

Eldar [00:56:18]:
Yeah.

Toliy [00:56:18]:
I think the realization or the coming to terms with that is much more difficult than painting the Picasso painting.

Tommy [00:56:28]:
True.

Toliy [00:56:30]:
Because I think that that's what you're actually after. You actually don't even want to do what those people are actually doing. You want to actually just fit the mold of what it would sound like to be that person. Yeah.

Eldar [00:56:41]:
Correct. It's always in your head somewhere far, far away. Yeah. From you. Okay, but what if you have the answer? All right, fine. What if you have the answer?

Toliy [00:56:54]:
What if you have the answer?

Eldar [00:56:56]:
You have the answer now. Okay. We just, you know, how do you launch? How do you buy it? How do you jump? Let's just assume that Tom bought it.

Mike [00:57:06]:
Cool.

Eldar [00:57:06]:
Totally. I just realized today that I am fulfilling somebody else's morning routine. I'm tapping into their understanding of morning routine, and I want to change, change, change that.

Toliy [00:57:20]:
You want to change that?

Eldar [00:57:22]:
How do you jump?

Tommy [00:57:23]:
Well, was it necessarily somebody else's? Because he said, you know, he came up with the idea, so can it be ours or someone else's into some ideal, let's say. Let's say we want to live.

Mike [00:57:35]:
If it's going to make you sleep better at night, then, yeah, I'm. It could be ours.

Eldar [00:57:42]:
Yeah. Yeah.

Toliy [00:57:42]:
I mean, see, like, for me, like, once you say that, like, what does it take to actually do, like.

Tommy [00:57:50]:
Anything you want to be doing?

Toliy [00:57:52]:
Yeah. Like, it's like, do you have, like, an actual process that you can share with somebody that doesn't involve the word doing? Like, just doing a.

Tommy [00:58:05]:
Because what. What did you ask?

Toliy [00:58:07]:
Like, do you have a prop? Like. Like, when. When it comes to launching?

Tommy [00:58:12]:
Yeah.

Toliy [00:58:13]:
I mean, it seems. I mean, I'm having a hard time trying to share. Like, what would it take to, like, what do you actually have to do without just. I mean, like, just saying, just to do something? Maybe you have to remove the things that just prevent you from doing. But, like, what is it actually you have to do other than do.

Eldar [00:58:34]:
Right.

Mike [00:58:36]:
Well, you can't you just act without thinking?

Toliy [00:58:39]:
Well, no, they're saying, like, if you have the, like, if you have the answer.

Mike [00:58:45]:
If you have what?

Toliy [00:58:46]:
Like the answer of what you need to do.

Mike [00:58:48]:
Yeah, if you know what you need to do. Yeah, I think if you already got the answer, you know what you do, then you. You.

Eldar [00:58:55]:
It's inevitable.

Mike [00:58:56]:
Right, but, yeah, but that's it.

Eldar [00:59:00]:
So there you go. So, so what you just guys just.

Toliy [00:59:02]:
Concluded failure to launch doesn't exist.

Eldar [00:59:05]:
Correct. Correct. So it's not doing at all. There's nothing to do. Yeah. You understand.

Mike [00:59:12]:
Well, yeah. You understand what needs to be done. There's nothing doing needs to be done. Just do it. But how do you get to that place?

Eldar [00:59:20]:
So then that was a trick question by me. Right. And now I realized, because the point is you never realized.

Toliy [00:59:27]:
Yeah. I don't know how to tell you what you actually need to do without just telling you just to do do it.

Eldar [00:59:32]:
Yeah, that's right. You know that's right. That's right. Yeah.

Toliy [00:59:38]:
I feel like there's probably a combination of particular attachments built up to particular. To, like, within that, like, sphere of which you're realizing or talking, and there's something that you're not willing to let go, which is why action cannot start.

Eldar [01:00:00]:
There you go. I think that's the key right there. Say that again.

Toliy [01:00:04]:
That in the sphere of, like, having the answer of what needs to be done, like, and then actually doing, the reason that you're not actually doing is because you still have a tap and, like. Like, you still have an attachment to a particular. To, like something that you're not willing to let go.

Mike [01:00:22]:
You see, but that's a different scenario.

Eldar [01:00:25]:
No, it is.

Mike [01:00:26]:
If you said you know what you want to do, and then you do it, we just said, it's just.

Eldar [01:00:33]:
Well, yeah, yeah, yeah. What I'm saying. What we're saying is that, uh. Yeah, he's. He's saying that ultimately the reason why you have non action is because you didn't do enough thinking. That's what you said. Yeah, he did. You didn't like that.

Toliy [01:00:49]:
Yeah, well, you don't have enough, like, you still have an attachment to a particular situation.

Eldar [01:00:57]:
There's a reason. You have really good reason to failure to launch.

Mike [01:01:01]:
Oh, yeah, no, I agree. I thought we're talking about the first situation.

Eldar [01:01:04]:
Oh.

Mike [01:01:04]:
When you understood what you want, and then you just do it.

Eldar [01:01:06]:
Well, we already did that. You already solved off for me, you said, hey, there's no such thing as not doing when you know. Yeah. And I agree with that a hundred percent. Now the knowing part is the stalling part.

Toliy [01:01:16]:
Well, no, no. I don't know if it's knowing. I don't know if it's knowing. I feel like there's a difference, I think, in knowing and being attached to, like, things because, like, when it comes to aligning with the right thing to, to do.

Eldar [01:01:30]:
Yeah. Okay, so what do you want to call it? Understand?

Toliy [01:01:35]:
Yeah. Yeah. I think that right now we can all have a reasonable problem. I mean, all of us can probably sit down here and have a reasonable conversation and line up with what. What the right thing is, however, to do.

Eldar [01:01:48]:
However. Yeah. Not all of us will detach ourselves from our previous beliefs. That's what I'm saying. Why? When does the detachment happen from your previous attachments and beliefs? In the knowing process or understanding process? When does it happen? When does it click and say, fuck everything else? I'm on board here? Fuck everything else? I'm on board here. I'm 100% sure about this. Fuck everything else. Get away from me?

Mike [01:02:12]:
When does it happen?

Eldar [01:02:14]:
Where's the trigger?

Mike [01:02:15]:
What's the trigger?

Eldar [01:02:17]:
He's saying that we can sit here, put on reasonable hats, know what's the right thing to do and do wrong. And still.

Toliy [01:02:26]:
That'S what I'm saying is I don't think it's a matter of knowing. I think it's a matter of attaching, and I probably guess that it has to do with a piece of ourselves. Needs to be put to rest forever.

Eldar [01:02:42]:
Okay. You use some weird words for sure, but give us the. What actually needs to happen?

Toliy [01:02:48]:
Like the. Yeah, the attachment.

Eldar [01:02:52]:
When does it happen?

Toliy [01:02:53]:
It happens when the attachment to those. To those things is dropped.

Eldar [01:02:57]:
When is the attachment drop? You need a compelling evidence or reason. You already did that work, right?

Toliy [01:03:04]:
No. Yeah.

Eldar [01:03:06]:
You understand what I'm asking?

Mike [01:03:08]:
When you're, when you're honest with yourself.

Eldar [01:03:10]:
Okay, that's one variable.

Mike [01:03:13]:
When you admit yourself that.

Eldar [01:03:16]:
How come you're not honest with yourself? Because when will you be honest with yourself? When do you choose to be honest with yourself? Like, okay, now I need to be honest with myself.

Toliy [01:03:26]:
When you're okay with me, maybe. With what? Like, you're okay to. To detach your, like, to, like, drop the attachment of some win. When you're okay with the, with whichever results play out from it.

Eldar [01:03:41]:
Okay, so you okay with the results? So if you're okay with the results, you no longer have attachments. Of a or b.

Toliy [01:03:49]:
When you're okay with the results, one way or another.

Eldar [01:03:52]:
Yeah, but when do you become okay and how do you become okay with the results? See, again, you're gonna keep going down. I'm gonna keep asking you when do.

Toliy [01:04:00]:
You'Re asking a very good question which is like, if the bottom of this can be gotten like it's feel it for everybody.

Eldar [01:04:08]:
You cure it. Yeah. You cure it. Yeah.

Toliy [01:04:10]:
I don't know. It's a very hard question to answer right now.

Eldar [01:04:14]:
Yeah. What stars need to align? What stars need to align, guys, in order to finally fucking drop it. Right?

Mike [01:04:23]:
Yeah, I think it comes, comes to.

Eldar [01:04:25]:
We talked about this thing and you live true.

Mike [01:04:28]:
It comes to if you have a problem in your life, you have to you. I think you have to humble yourself in order to do that. When you do humble yourself genuinely.

Eldar [01:04:37]:
Again, you. Again, you mentioning one of the stars.

Mike [01:04:40]:
Yeah, but I think that's the biggest.

Eldar [01:04:42]:
You want to be honest with yourself. Yeah. You gotta be humble. All right. You gotta be honest, be truthful, be courageous.

Mike [01:04:50]:
Yeah, yeah.

Eldar [01:04:50]:
I think you have to be courageous, have some courage. Yeah, yeah.

Toliy [01:04:54]:
I feel like you almost have to give up. Have to give up in that scenario and detachment.

Eldar [01:05:00]:
Have the ability not to have attachment, vulnerability. Yeah, but acceptance.

Mike [01:05:06]:
Think it's all those things.

Eldar [01:05:08]:
Well, I don't know. These are the stars that align in order for us to finally drop a belief system and follow the truth.

Toliy [01:05:14]:
It's hard cuz. Yeah. I don't know, like one thing that.

Mike [01:05:16]:
Yeah. I think it's. Maybe if you want to say in Socrates is like you, when you finally make the choice that you're gonna live an examine life and you're gonna keep living that and everything. Not in one shot, but everything. You're gonna eventually try to pick up every stone.

Eldar [01:05:31]:
You're still not answering the question though. Yeah, that's all I got for you. No, you're right. I agree with you. I agree that that's the result, but we still didn't solve the problem.

Toliy [01:05:43]:
What's the actual question?

Eldar [01:05:45]:
Well, the question is when does the switch happen? Right. You know, you said, yeah, I know we can have a reasonable conversation here, that this is the right thing to do, but we're gonna leave from here, have four different answers and still not probably follow that. That thing that we discussed.

Toliy [01:05:57]:
Yeah, I'm not sure, I'm not sure.

Eldar [01:05:58]:
There's a lot of variables involved.

Toliy [01:05:59]:
Yeah, I'm not sure. Like, like, I mean, like I'm trying to think about everything and it's. It's all leading me to kind of then believe that. Like, I don't think that there's one conscious choice here that's being made.

Eldar [01:06:13]:
Would it be a conscious choice?

Toliy [01:06:15]:
Like, I don't think that there's a choice that's being made here.

Eldar [01:06:19]:
Mm hmm.

Toliy [01:06:20]:
I think it might be just, like, a intention being set right. And then just like, a bunch of different actions all around it that kind of surround it and that, like, bring.

Eldar [01:06:33]:
It to lightest a little bit.

Toliy [01:06:34]:
No, like, they. All those actions kind of, like, corner that thing.

Eldar [01:06:40]:
Hmm. Oh, so what you're saying is that, okay, I understand that now. Yeah. Those stars have to align.

Mike [01:06:50]:
It's not, it's not rock bottom.

Eldar [01:06:52]:
It's not rock bottom. She's saying that there's so many things that all fits together.

Toliy [01:06:57]:
The puzzle.

Eldar [01:06:58]:
Yeah. The puzzle has to fit. All those stars have to align and those stars you mentioned, you said, hey, gotta be honest with yourself. How does that fucking look like? You have to be humble. How the fuck does that look like? You know what I'm saying? You have to be vulnerable. How does that look like? Right. All those things have to align all at the same time for you to finally say, okay, take me, I'm ready to go.

Mike [01:07:20]:
Yeah. I'm not sure.

Eldar [01:07:23]:
So, no, which is fine. Which the equation is one.

Mike [01:07:26]:
One option. I'm not sure if there's not more options.

Eldar [01:07:29]:
I was wondering if there's a click, right? If there's a mental click where it's like, okay, but it doesn't sound like it's one. I think it's a scope of services that are playing in your head. Right? Like you said. Like you said, that have to align in order for you to finally jump. And those services and those. That scope of service actually happens in different times, obviously. Right.

Toliy [01:07:48]:
These two different are too grandiose. I feel like to, like to, like, I feel like it's almost disrespectful to say that it's just like, one kind of thing, because, like, these things are such grand, grandiose changes we're talking about here, that, like, all the virtues have to align to all be put at the table here to participate. And if one of them. Yeah, if one of them isn't there, then I'm not sure how, what you're saying is going to work out.

Mike [01:08:22]:
Yeah, I see what you're saying.

Eldar [01:08:23]:
You talk about integrity, like, real integrity. You can't just go to church on Sunday.

Mike [01:08:29]:
Definitely can't.

Eldar [01:08:30]:
You just can't. Like you said, it's consistency of character. What does that character entail? A lot of things.

Mike [01:08:37]:
A lot of things.

Eldar [01:08:38]:
So pretty much it's over for everybody. Everybody's destined to be unhappy as we know it. There is a way out. There is a way out, right? We just identified it. But, Tom, it's gonna be a bumpy ride.

Tommy [01:08:55]:
I mean, I'll make a confession. I lied. I didn't have my perfect morning.

Eldar [01:09:00]:
Oh, welcome. Send you a million to the real.

Tommy [01:09:08]:
World neo.

Eldar [01:09:12]:
Dave, saying y'all want to one of the paintings. You know what I mean? What are our side?

Mike [01:09:15]:
Then it's cut this part out.

Eldar [01:09:16]:
Yeah, you over here.

Toliy [01:09:18]:
Fucking just press the pause button here. What the fuck?

Eldar [01:09:24]:
You just load. You understand what I just did?

Tommy [01:09:26]:
Want to see what?

Eldar [01:09:27]:
You see that? See how that came out? We went to there. We said, yo, guys, there's a perfect world out there for us. Each one of us to reach and be happy. Actually be happy. However we need to do this, we need to do that. We need to do that. We need to do this. He was listening to the whole shit.

Eldar [01:09:41]:
Yeah. He's like, yo, don't leave me alone. I want to go there. I want to go there. I lied about my. You understand? You understand? That's the formal right there.

Tommy [01:09:52]:
And let me tell you something. I pretty much forgot about it until now.

Eldar [01:09:56]:
What? You. You were supposed to forget about it, Tom. That guy that sold you on the routine is full of shit, just like you are. Oh, I'm sorry. It's all right. Cool.

Tommy [01:10:06]:
It's forgiven.

Mike [01:10:08]:
Okay, so, Tom.

Eldar [01:10:09]:
Yeah?

Toliy [01:10:10]:
What's your confession?

Tommy [01:10:11]:
That not every, you know, morning will go as, as I want it to go. And especially that my morning not going the way I want it to go is sort of recalled when something else starts to go the way I don't want it to go, starting from the way I don't want it to go. To the way I don't want it to go.

Toliy [01:10:33]:
Yeah, he's saying the same thing. He's fucked before he gets fucked.

Eldar [01:10:36]:
This is correct. So he recognizes it.

Toliy [01:10:39]:
It's much before it even starts.

Eldar [01:10:41]:
That's right.

Tommy [01:10:42]:
And so that's the thing. I think we just sort of had.

Eldar [01:10:45]:
These guys, I told you, play by ear. You have to be, you have to be aware.

Mike [01:10:49]:
Okay, but what happens if you don't know how to, you can't even play it by ear.

Eldar [01:10:53]:
Well, that's the thing. You're fucked.

Toliy [01:10:54]:
Just trying to turn this shit off.

Eldar [01:10:56]:
You know what I'm saying? You're fucked. You know what's happening? Is that, like, what you're saying is that you're playing out a determined thing based on predetermined things that you determine all time ago. And they're fucked and they're not examined. Right.

Toliy [01:11:13]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:11:13]:
So because of that, you live in a very hurtful life. One that brings you pain, that makes you lie. Yeah.

Mike [01:11:22]:
But are mostly able to do this kind of thing.

Eldar [01:11:27]:
No, what do you mean? This thing we're talking about.

Mike [01:11:29]:
No, this kind of thing. Like you're saying that. Oh, yeah. Then just be what you say. So be selective. Like.

Eldar [01:11:36]:
Yeah, most people probably have a hard time doing that.

Mike [01:11:39]:
You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah.

Eldar [01:11:42]:
100%. It's. It's. Again, that's learning. Self love. Right. My description of it. Right.

Eldar [01:11:46]:
You woke up. Well, you had a plan that you attached yourself to. Yeah. I'm going to the gym today and I'm going to do this weight and I'm going to do so many reps, but you woke up sleep deprived. What is your choice now? You know what I mean?

Mike [01:11:57]:
Push through, kid.

Eldar [01:11:59]:
Well, there you go.

Mike [01:12:00]:
Where'd you hear that from some beefed up cat?

Eldar [01:12:04]:
Some fucking bozo, bro. Bozo that sold you on some stupid ass dreamland that is not sustainable or attainable.

Toliy [01:12:10]:
Yeah, I wonder, what does it even take to like, level things out before you can even start something?

Eldar [01:12:16]:
No, that's a different question. You're trying to tell us completely.

Toliy [01:12:19]:
Right? Because it's like if you're always working.

Eldar [01:12:22]:
Yeah, well, what it takes is what you're doing.

Tommy [01:12:24]:
Self doubt and self sabotage.

Eldar [01:12:26]:
Correct. Self doubt, self sabotage, 100%. Yeah.

Tommy [01:12:28]:
It's like, I don't have my morning coffee because, you know.

Toliy [01:12:33]:
No, no, I'm saying. But what does it take to get to the zero scale that, where you're not working from behind.

Eldar [01:12:39]:
You have to start. Yeah. You have to start doubting everything that you fucking doing. You have to examine it, you have to wake up and like, what the fuck is going on here? Like, what the fuck is going on here? And then you go into the next thing, you're like, what the fuck is going on here? Yeah, what a fuck do I do what I do? You know what I'm saying? You have to pause. Yeah. And say, yo, what's happening here?

Toliy [01:13:01]:
What do you say to the people who say, why are you trying to overcomplicate things?

Eldar [01:13:06]:
I'm actually. I would say to the people that they misunderstand this completely. This is, this is actually. I'm simplifying this shit for you. You know, I think the path to fucking victory or happiness is actually very simple. We don't mushed ourselves. Yeah, that's for sure. We bought stuff that we can't fucking cash.

Eldar [01:13:29]:
Hey, you know what I'm saying? We just bought in blindly. Somebody sold us snake oil. We bought it, and now we live in it out. We have to unbuy everything.

Tommy [01:13:41]:
You know what I alluded to? Like, for example, like, stuff that you could have, like, say you don't have socks in the morning, right? So you start wearing your shoes without socks and your feet start to smell.

Eldar [01:13:53]:
That's disgusting.

Tommy [01:13:54]:
Now, whose fault. Now, whose fault is it that you're having a. A fucking terrible morning and the smell is going up your nose? Whose fault is it? Now that. See, that's what I'm saying. Now it's like you have a dirty.

Mike [01:14:09]:
Pair from the basket, kid.

Tommy [01:14:10]:
Now it's like you have this problem. You have this problem that you're sort of like, you know, you're dusting under the rug and you could be, like, making yourself essentially happy.

Mike [01:14:25]:
You got to become the oracle, kid.

Tommy [01:14:27]:
I'm not saying that having matrix. Having your clothes ready in the morning from the night before will make you rich, but it certainly will solve the problem that you. That you have sort of. You know what I mean? That's kind of why I talked about it. I thought.

Eldar [01:14:44]:
Yeah, so.

Tommy [01:14:46]:
So, e, it's kind of like, damn, I don't want my feet to smell.

Mike [01:14:50]:
Right, but, no, you should.

Eldar [01:14:53]:
Maybe you should, but in your socket.

Tommy [01:14:55]:
Drawers, you have no.

Eldar [01:14:56]:
Maybe you need them to smoke, but.

Mike [01:14:59]:
You don't offer more.

Tommy [01:15:00]:
There's a difference.

Mike [01:15:00]:
So you finally get fed up with.

Tommy [01:15:02]:
Being an idiot and. And that thing that you actually challenge yourself to be doing.

Mike [01:15:09]:
That's what it is, bro. Yeah, I got the code. You need to solve remorse. You can become fed up with being an idiot. And that goes across everything. All your stupid routines.

Tommy [01:15:18]:
You need to solve. You need to solve.

Toliy [01:15:20]:
What?

Mike [01:15:21]:
You need to suffer more. Suffer more so you can get fed up with being an idiot because you are choosing to be an idiot in those things.

Tommy [01:15:27]:
I don't know if we.

Mike [01:15:28]:
You personally know because you're.

Eldar [01:15:30]:
You're an idiot.

Mike [01:15:31]:
Yeah, sorry, Picasso.

Eldar [01:15:33]:
Yeah.

Toliy [01:15:34]:
Wait, but is offering, like, our only.

Mike [01:15:37]:
Other option because it's.

Eldar [01:15:39]:
Oh, the thing is, the reason why it's only option is because you. If we choose. Right, if we choose to come out. Out of this conversation, right, and we didn't take any steps or actions towards that which we discovered today, you're choosing.

Mike [01:15:52]:
To be suffering is guaranteed. It's like it comes along with the order of fries. It comes along with the steak.

Eldar [01:15:59]:
Yeah. Layman's terms, suffering is guaranteed.

Toliy [01:16:05]:
It comes free with your order.

Tommy [01:16:10]:
Complimentary.

Toliy [01:16:12]:
What do you want to. You want a little suffering on the side or inside your sandwich?

Eldar [01:16:16]:
Yeah. It always comes. It'll always come through for you. Yeah, it'll always come through.

Mike [01:16:20]:
Right.

Eldar [01:16:21]:
So, so, so with that being said, mike, I like that. I like that. Because now we have to. What we have to do is we have to make suffering teacher. Yes, a teacher. We have to. That's how. No, it is.

Eldar [01:16:38]:
But it's not actually teacher. My.

Mike [01:16:40]:
But that's not nobody.

Eldar [01:16:40]:
Nobody sits there like, ah, my feet. So this fucking sucks. And, like, although this is actually really great, I'm gonna learn something from this. No, embarrassed. You know what I'm saying? People are embarrassed. People don't want to fucking suffer, and people want to stay far away from it, so they complain about it. We need to switch suffering and make it a teacher. The reason why I'm suffering today, because I got to learn something about myself or about the world in order for me to change that.

Eldar [01:17:07]:
Therefore, I won't suffer again. Correct.

Mike [01:17:10]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:17:11]:
The thing is, the issue is here is that we're suffering right now and we're numb to it. We don't know what it is.

Mike [01:17:20]:
That's true, too.

Eldar [01:17:21]:
We're numb to the suffering. My example of basketball, right. That was covered up by, I love competition. I love playing. Basketball is my favorite sport. Yada, yada, yada, yada. All that stuff was said, all that stuff to me to be true, and then the results came in. Yes.

Eldar [01:17:38]:
Right. Justifications. Right. For my suffering. But my suffering came in and spoke louder than any words, and I wasn't aware of it. Right. I was like, ah, ooh, ah, ooh. Everything hurts.

Eldar [01:17:51]:
You know what I mean? Yeah. Am I gonna enjoy doing stuff that I like, say all these nice things about what I do and stuff like that, but nobody ever checked me and said, hey, bro, why are you so sore? And why are you bitching? Yeah. You wasn't loud enough. He wasn't allowed anywhere. Right, right. I mean, I need. I need to be broken down in certain separate ways to hear it.

Mike [01:18:18]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:18:18]:
And I finally broke that down to my self as I said, wait a sec, what is happening here? I don't like myself suffering, so I turned it into a teacher. Right? We tried turning into a teacher and said, okay, cool. If you like to engage in the basketball, you have to limit it to x amount of time so you don't experiencing that stuff. I'm doing much better, bro. Yeah. Much better. I'm very happy about myself. I don't complain about my hip, not because my hip doesn't hurt.

Eldar [01:18:43]:
My hip hurts sometimes. Right. But it's bearable enough for me not to bitch about it and moan about it. Right. And it definitely doesn't hurt as easy.

Mike [01:18:50]:
But also, you don't want to be a jackass for complaining about a bad.

Eldar [01:18:53]:
Hip if you know that 100%. There's two things that's going on here. Right? If I finally assume the position and said, you know what, I'm gonna be an idiot.

Mike [01:19:01]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:19:02]:
Don't say nothing around Catherine because you call me out on it. Don't say nothing about Mike, cuz Mike's watching now. I said it out loud. Somebody who's gonna hold me accountable to it. Yeah. So I have to be the police inside and scold myself.

Mike [01:19:13]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:19:14]:
Right.

Mike [01:19:14]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:19:15]:
Or don't do it. It's easy not to do it, bro. Yeah. You know what I mean? After some time of practice, it's easier not to do it.

Mike [01:19:20]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:19:23]:
So turn suffering into a teacher. Whatever you're suffering in right now. Right?

Mike [01:19:30]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:19:31]:
If you can turn them into a teacher as to why, ask yourself why you're suffering. You can potentially change the outcomes and you can. You don't have to suffer anymore.

Tommy [01:19:40]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:19:41]:
But what that makes.

Eldar [01:19:42]:
Well, that takes examination.

Mike [01:19:43]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Exactly. What that makes you do is examine.

Eldar [01:19:45]:
Correct.

Mike [01:19:46]:
You know, but a lot of times.

Eldar [01:19:48]:
I totally said, a lot of people will never say that. Right. I straightforward and say, yeah, a lot of times people will just say, no, it's just things, how they are. This is the world I have to suffer. I have to do this and stuff like that. Nobody changes their careers. Right. Nobody actually challenges themselves to do something that they actually like or be passionate about.

Eldar [01:20:04]:
Right. So a lot of people are just stuck in the cycle. Right. But ultimately, suffering is a teacher.

Mike [01:20:11]:
But does it. So what it is is that. Does it make you face yourself to.

Eldar [01:20:15]:
See who you actually are? It forces. But we keep pushing it away, though. That thing that you're talking about facing yourself, we keep pushing it away. You know why? Because it's. The world's doing this to us.

Toliy [01:20:26]:
Do you think, oh, suffering, being a teacher is a guarantee that the right solution will be found for it?

Eldar [01:20:33]:
No, you might lose. No, it's not guaranteed because, like, guaranteed it could be.

Toliy [01:20:37]:
No, no, I'm saying that, like, suffering, like, is suffering, like suffering. I don't know.

Mike [01:20:45]:
It's not just suffering. It's suffering with intention.

Eldar [01:20:48]:
Well, no, that's when it. That's what we're trying to make.

Mike [01:20:50]:
Yes.

Eldar [01:20:51]:
We're trying to make suffering with intention to. To be a teacher.

Toliy [01:20:54]:
I don't know. So. So in what way is the actual suffering itself a teacher? Because guaranteed. Right.

Tommy [01:21:06]:
It's attached.

Toliy [01:21:06]:
No, I'm saying they're like, it's guaranteed to happen. But is it guaranteed to teach something?

Eldar [01:21:12]:
Yeah. Yeah.

Toliy [01:21:13]:
How?

Eldar [01:21:14]:
Because it's the. It's the beginning of the. Of the question.

Tommy [01:21:18]:
I think we wonder how these things take place.

Toliy [01:21:20]:
No, I know, but, like, you could also go, how go your whole life suffering? Right?

Eldar [01:21:25]:
Yeah, yeah, sure. No, but. But if you do. But if you do, there's a. If you do actually say, why am I suffering?

Toliy [01:21:33]:
Yeah. Well, then suffering, like, suffering can be used, I think, as a teacher or like.

Eldar [01:21:40]:
No, no, I think inherently the. The suffering has a question of why. Inherently.

Mike [01:21:44]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:21:45]:
Doesn't mean that we always will ask it.

Mike [01:21:47]:
Yeah.

Toliy [01:21:47]:
Or even know that it exists.

Mike [01:21:49]:
No, I think suffering.

Eldar [01:21:50]:
I mean. But come on, you feel. Yeah.

Tommy [01:21:53]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:21:53]:
What do you think people go throughout the whole life?

Mike [01:21:55]:
Yeah. Maybe today you can ask, like, why am I suffering? And tomorrow you can ask, why am I suffering? And this. Why am I suffering? This, this, this. You keep expanding. Like, you can suffer in basketball, for example, for a long time.

Toliy [01:22:11]:
Okay.

Mike [01:22:11]:
And you'll say, why am I suffering with this in basketball?

Toliy [01:22:16]:
That's like you doing something. I don't think that.

Mike [01:22:18]:
That suffering, asking if just why is. It'll be followed by another why?

Toliy [01:22:23]:
That's not the suffering and that's being the teacher.

Eldar [01:22:26]:
It's.

Toliy [01:22:26]:
It's you that's being the teacher.

Eldar [01:22:27]:
Well, duh. Well, obviously, the suffering that you endure and then you go through is the.

Toliy [01:22:33]:
Teacher gives you an opportunity.

Eldar [01:22:35]:
No, it does not guarantee when you're.

Toliy [01:22:39]:
In pain, you just. You don't ask why, you know?

Eldar [01:22:43]:
Yeah, but you gotta understand that. Have you ever met somebody who suffered throughout their life and not solved not.

Mike [01:22:49]:
One suffering or never tried to ask, why am I suffering?

Eldar [01:22:54]:
You know, we saw right now, if I get up, right, if I don't take the right steps, I might fall over and trip. Okay, so it's automatic. Right? I know that. Hey, if I don't do this, I might fall and trip or hurt myself. I don't want to hurt myself. Therefore. Therefore I am. What I'm doing is I'm calculating and asking myself what to do and how to do it in order to prevent myself from suffering.

Tommy [01:23:15]:
Check this out.

Toliy [01:23:16]:
What if.

Eldar [01:23:16]:
You know what I'm saying? If you said to me, yo. We have an example of a person who went throughout their whole life, suffered all their life, and never, ever progressed and or solve that problem. Then I'd be completely shocked. You know, there's different forms of sufferings. What I'm saying.

Toliy [01:23:30]:
But can you solve certain problems or do certain things and be a person who does not understand how and why it happened?

Eldar [01:23:37]:
Are you asking that same question again?

Tommy [01:23:40]:
I think so.

Eldar [01:23:41]:
Right. You are.

Tommy [01:23:42]:
If you refuse to change, you could lose your mind.

Mike [01:23:46]:
I think I was directed to.

Eldar [01:23:48]:
Yeah, bro, that's on you, bro. What?

Mike [01:23:51]:
Same question.

Tommy [01:23:52]:
No, I'm not saying that before. You know, I think. No, I take it pretty seriously to, you know, to be unwell, to be mentally unwell. I take it pretty. I take it seriously, probably, I'd say on a good. On good par, like, on a par with most people. So what I'm saying is, you know, say you choose to. Now you're.

Tommy [01:24:11]:
Now your feet. Now your stinky feet are walking all over the house. And now not only is the first floor stinky, but the second floor becomes stinky. Or you see hoarders, for example.

Toliy [01:24:20]:
Yeah.

Tommy [01:24:21]:
Where they have rats, maybe nesting in their home, God forbid. That's disgusting. Yeah, but do they see disgusting? Maybe, maybe. But I think they're doing what Mike said. It's like you get a why followed by another why.

Mike [01:24:34]:
Sometimes you get to the core, and sometimes, you know, life is not.

Toliy [01:24:38]:
Yeah, that's what I'm saying. I don't know. Like, what. What percent of people solve problems with intent, actual understanding?

Eldar [01:24:47]:
No, I get that. No.

Toliy [01:24:48]:
Act those things, because then if that was the case, you would probably be able to apply that to all things.

Eldar [01:24:56]:
Yeah, but I don't know why you have a trouble with suffering is the. Is the. Is the start of a question. Why? And. And, like, I want to solve a problem.

Toliy [01:25:06]:
I'm suffering. I want to solve a problem, though. I don't know if it's. Suffering is the direction teacher, because I think that you can suffer without being taught.

Eldar [01:25:17]:
So then you're saying. Yeah, but then you're saying. But then you're saying that, uh. Then you're saying that just be.

Mike [01:25:24]:
Yeah, no, no, you can. Who is gonna go walk into, like, walk into a fucking brick wall and be like, oh.

Eldar [01:25:40]:
Pain.

Mike [01:25:41]:
Pain. Yeah.

Toliy [01:25:42]:
How do people know that something hurts?

Mike [01:25:45]:
Because you have pain.

Eldar [01:25:46]:
You are. Yeah. You have pain receptors that give you, like, ouch.

Tommy [01:25:49]:
Like, okay, hold on. Yo, we're getting really deep into this shit, but I'm saying.

Toliy [01:25:55]:
Not, for example, in a physical things, right?

Eldar [01:25:59]:
What is. What if it.

Tommy [01:26:00]:
You suffer, what you don't get. What if it's that?

Eldar [01:26:04]:
And since it's a measuremental pain. No. Like, you can measure.

Toliy [01:26:10]:
No, but the mental pain happens because it is because of some understanding. Right. Of some kind of learned behavior. Right. Like. Like. And, like, it has to go with some kind of thing. Like, right now, if I curse you often in a zooko language, right.

Toliy [01:26:30]:
You don't know what I'm saying, but I'm just cursing you out and, like.

Eldar [01:26:33]:
No, not if I know how to read. Not. Not if I know how to read face expressions. And I know. I feel the intention.

Toliy [01:26:37]:
No. Okay. I texted you.

Eldar [01:26:39]:
Okay, fine.

Toliy [01:26:40]:
In Zuko language. Right?

Eldar [01:26:43]:
Sure, sure.

Toliy [01:26:43]:
And I was just saying all these.

Eldar [01:26:44]:
Nasty things about you, but you didn't say anything. What? You didn't say anything.

Toliy [01:26:49]:
Exactly. Right. That was. That's what I'm trying to say is that.

Eldar [01:26:53]:
Yeah, but doesn't mean that you can't. That can't be translated.

Toliy [01:26:57]:
No, I know, but like, you said something real life outside of me, you know, real life. I think that what you come through as, like, pain and pleasure, happiness, not happiness, is based on your, like, wide variety of learned behaviors over a long period of time. And I'm trying to say something. You didn't hear me. Can I finish my point?

Eldar [01:27:29]:
Okay. Yes.

Tommy [01:27:30]:
He's about to give you a slap.

Toliy [01:27:32]:
So I think that, like, that pain or pleasure, like, a point is learned behavior based on, like, true learn behavior. Like. Like, I don't know if it's out of the box feelings.

Eldar [01:27:48]:
What? I don't understand what you're saying. Like, you.

Mike [01:27:54]:
He's saying that.

Eldar [01:27:57]:
I don't understand what he's saying.

Mike [01:27:58]:
He's saying that.

Eldar [01:28:00]:
He's asking how we suffer and we tell him, okay, like, through pain.

Mike [01:28:03]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:28:04]:
It could be mental or physical.

Mike [01:28:05]:
He's saying that. He's saying mind over matter, like, the pain.

Eldar [01:28:08]:
No, listen, listen, listen, listen.

Toliy [01:28:10]:
No.

Eldar [01:28:12]:
Okay. We could go into that conversation, too. No, when you're born, he's saying it's a learned behavior. How is pain saying?

Mike [01:28:20]:
Your parents told you that the fire is hot, but if they told you.

Eldar [01:28:23]:
What you mean when your baby is hungry, you didn't feed it on time. You know what I'm saying? And it's crying. And it's crying because it has pain in its stomach. It's saying, yo, I'm deprived. Please give me something. I'm a baby.

Toliy [01:28:37]:
Yeah, no, I know, but I'm saying.

Eldar [01:28:38]:
Is that this is not a learned behavior. Totally.

Toliy [01:28:40]:
No, 100%.

Eldar [01:28:42]:
This is innate.

Toliy [01:28:42]:
Yeah. 100. Okay. Okay. So let me revise my point. I think that some things are, like, probably the more primitive things, right. I think are more innate. Innate behaviors that, like, are not out of choice.

Toliy [01:28:59]:
But then I think that, like, once humans evolved out of the more primitive of behaviors, right. And try to, again, go up mas Maslow's pyramid, for example, or, like, actualize certain things or do certain things, I think that there's. There's the things in there I don't think are just innate. I think that they are learned, understood patterns and stuff like that over long periods of time.

Eldar [01:29:33]:
Understood patterns? Yeah.

Toliy [01:29:34]:
For example, something like anxiety. How does it. How did it get to a point where, like. Like, how do you know that it feels bad? Or, like, how'd you know that happened?

Eldar [01:29:50]:
Like, aren't you experiencing it?

Toliy [01:29:52]:
Yeah, but what are you actually experiencing?

Eldar [01:29:54]:
You experience a cognitive dissonance.

Toliy [01:29:57]:
No. During the time of feeling, like. Like, how do you know that that's unpleasant? Like, how do I associate that feeling being unpleasant?

Mike [01:30:05]:
Are you doubting that it's not pleasant?

Toliy [01:30:06]:
No, I'm not, um. No, I'm not doubting that. No.

Mike [01:30:09]:
How can you say here?

Toliy [01:30:10]:
I'm trying to say. I'm trying to say that these. These behaviors that, like, this is bad are learned. And. And, um. Like, uh. Um.

Eldar [01:30:22]:
Well, nobody's saying is anxiety is bad here also. No, I'm saying the suffering that we get from anxiety.

Toliy [01:30:31]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:30:31]:
Right. Because you suffer from anxiety. Right. Can be turned, actually right into the teacher. How? How? Because it's the. It's the. It's the thing that speaks. It speaks to us.

Eldar [01:30:46]:
It's pain. It's painful. It's telling us, hey, we are in pain here. Can you relieve us? We'll relieve the hunger.

Toliy [01:30:54]:
Yeah. I just don't think that those are like, I. Like, I think that as you go up, like, the pyramid, and have less primitive, for example, pains. Right. Like, cool.

Eldar [01:31:06]:
Yeah. I don't understand what I got. What is anxiety is less primitive pain.

Toliy [01:31:12]:
Then, for example, then hunger, I would say. Yeah, like that.

Mike [01:31:18]:
Or more permit.

Eldar [01:31:19]:
I think it's more probably. He doesn't think so. He thinks it's higher. I think it's lessen.

Toliy [01:31:25]:
Like, I don't think anxiety. It was like a. Is like a hungry stomach.

Eldar [01:31:30]:
Yeah, yeah, but check this out.

Toliy [01:31:32]:
Primitive things.

Eldar [01:31:33]:
Yeah, yeah. But like, if you're hungry and your stomach hurts, right, and you cry, you give the food you eat, it's gone. Okay. Correct.

Toliy [01:31:44]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:31:46]:
Next time you crying again. Right. The period of time that you're crying is longer. Okay. Now it's not ten minutes. You're crying. You're crying 20 minutes, okay?

Toliy [01:31:56]:
Mm hmm.

Eldar [01:31:57]:
Okay, cool. You cry for 20 minutes. Mom comes, gives you the food. You stop crying. Next time you cry for an hour. Mom's not there for an hour. She didn't bring you the food for an hour. Now it's a longer period of time.

Eldar [01:32:08]:
You're recognizing, like, wait a second. Last time was ten minutes. Now it's 20 minutes. We're conditioning to know that it's longer now. Right. Next time is an hour. And now we come to find out that next time, it's not going to be 1 hour. It might be 3 hours.

Eldar [01:32:23]:
So what you're going for is now you develop anxiety, right. To think ahead of time, to say, yo, next time I get hungry. Yeah, I'm fucked.

Mike [01:32:34]:
You're already suffering now.

Eldar [01:32:35]:
Correct. So which one is more primitive or worse? You've developed, right. You develop a much worse.

Toliy [01:32:47]:
But, but, like, from that. I know what you're saying, but it's like, it was developed from that. It's not the in, like, the pure form of, like, what you develop from something physical is a mental condition.

Eldar [01:33:01]:
Well, that's what I'm saying.

Toliy [01:33:02]:
Yeah. Those are two separate things is what I'm saying.

Eldar [01:33:04]:
Yeah. But the, you know, you saying one is more primitive than the other physical.

Toliy [01:33:10]:
Form of hunger is more primitive than those, than the mental thoughts that are going through your head that are learned behaviors. And, like, like, what do you mean by primitive then?

Mike [01:33:20]:
Like that example that you gave it, that one sounded worse. When you start now panicking that. That you're not gonna be able to eat for the next few hours and you. For 3 hours straight, you're suffering.

Eldar [01:33:28]:
Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So, you know, I don't think you, you might be even suffering from the hunger as much as you might be suffering from.

Mike [01:33:36]:
From the anxiety. You're gonna be hungry, correct. Yeah. That's crazy.

Eldar [01:33:40]:
So you're not even hungry right now. Yeah.

Mike [01:33:42]:
You're not, but you're already stressing that you're hungry. You're gonna be hungry, correct. Yeah. That's sick.

Tommy [01:33:47]:
Yeah.

Toliy [01:33:48]:
The more primitive form is hunger. Need food.

Eldar [01:33:52]:
So primitive, you saying by, like, words more basic?

Toliy [01:33:55]:
Basic, yeah. Or more, more like early stages, which is also why I feel like when it comes to human development, these things about, you know, like, again, like, there's a point where mental health is not even a thing. Like, not, not even really like a talk about thing.

Eldar [01:34:10]:
Yeah.

Toliy [01:34:11]:
Over time it did, because I think that people evolve over time. And the more needs that are kind of, like, met. Right. The more, like, the less primitive problems that you'll be trying or have the ability to start seeing or solving or, like. Like what we're talking about now.

Eldar [01:34:29]:
Mm hmm.

Toliy [01:34:30]:
I think in general, probably for the majority of society, is too early for its time. Right. This is something that's gonna be more, I would say, normalized, like, being hungry now. Now is long time from now.

Eldar [01:34:42]:
Yeah. But Socrates existed 2000 years ago. No, how long is the time?

Toliy [01:34:46]:
No, 100. I'm talking about when it comes to it being, like, applied on the level that hunger is right now. Like, I'm talking about normalization in society. Same thing with, like, there was definitely a Socrates and there was definitely some people around it.

Eldar [01:35:01]:
Yeah.

Toliy [01:35:01]:
But there was. There's always way more people that are nowhere near on that kind of a spectrum.

Eldar [01:35:07]:
No.

Toliy [01:35:08]:
Same thing, for example, with mental health stuff.

Eldar [01:35:10]:
Right.

Toliy [01:35:11]:
There was nobody really talking about on that level. Doesn't mean that people were not talking about it.

Eldar [01:35:15]:
Just.

Toliy [01:35:15]:
It wasn't as. It was not, like, a popular thing. Right. It was not amongst the masses. Things like this, I think also right now, are not things that are amongst the masses. But I think as society continues to evolve, which I think is at a much lower pace than individuals who put their mind to something like this can evolve. Right. Individually, when it comes to society as a whole, they will move at a much slower pace.

Eldar [01:35:42]:
Okay.

Toliy [01:35:43]:
Naturally.

Eldar [01:35:45]:
So, yeah, we were arguing about the suffering. Being the teacher.

Toliy [01:35:49]:
Yes.

Eldar [01:35:49]:
Yeah.

Toliy [01:35:50]:
That, yeah, yeah. The suffering, being a teacher. Like, I viewed as that. Like, you can suffer, but you. Because, like, to me, suffering is teacher. So suffering equals teachers, kind of how I'm saying it. And I don't think that that's always the case. I don't think that suffering is always.

Mike [01:36:07]:
You don't think that suffering is always teacher or teacher is always suffering?

Toliy [01:36:10]:
I don't think that suffering is also. Is always the teacher.

Mike [01:36:16]:
I'm gonna use the bathroom. But what's another teacher? Then how can you solve a problem?

Toliy [01:36:23]:
I think that. Yeah, yeah.

Mike [01:36:25]:
I'm really upset. I'm not a good cricket player, but I've never played cricket before.

Eldar [01:36:33]:
Yeah. Yeah. Damn, Mike. What's wrong with you, Mike?

Mike [01:36:37]:
I mean, I'm just suffering for the future.

Eldar [01:36:39]:
Go take a piss so you can hear this on the mic. Yeah.

Toliy [01:36:42]:
He said, I'm suffering because I'm not a good cricket player, but I've never played cricket before.

Eldar [01:36:48]:
Yeah. It's a good question.

Toliy [01:36:50]:
Yeah, no, I'm.

Eldar [01:36:51]:
It's an onset. Right. It's an onset. It's the beginning of questioning. It's the beginning of. It could and you could. It could. Well, I mean, like I said, okay, fine.

Eldar [01:37:01]:
You again, gonna turn into like, oh, there's this levels of the type of suffering, but I think that it does. Regardless of the level of suffering, you're suffering. Right. The primitive one and not primitive, but.

Toliy [01:37:10]:
I'm not sure if. I'm not sure, though, if suffering itself is what I'm saying. Suffering itself, yeah. Is the actual teacher, because you're like, what are you learning from it?

Eldar [01:37:22]:
Well, number one. Right. I think that when you.

Toliy [01:37:24]:
And are you guaranteed to learn from suffering?

Eldar [01:37:27]:
Well, I think that when you first recognize that you're suffering, that's number one. Right. When you realize that you're suffering. Okay, that's step number one.

Toliy [01:37:33]:
Okay?

Eldar [01:37:34]:
Right. If you got to the point where you say, like, ouch, this behavior hurts, okay? Right. You say to yourself, okay, why, why? Why do I keep doing this? Right. You keep going down the rabbit hole in order to find out what a. What's going on here. Right? Right. So teacher here, number one. Right.

Eldar [01:37:55]:
It's the onset, right. To make you ask the question as to why you're suffering. Why are you experiencing this feeling? Right. Number two, if you don't do nothing about it, time has passed. You're going to say you're going to hit it again. You're going to suffer again. So it's going to say, okay, I'm back. So it's a reminder that you haven't solved it.

Eldar [01:38:15]:
So it's not also just a teacher of saying that, hey, this is the lesson at hand. This is the aim and do now. But also it's like, hey, I'm going to remind you of it because you haven't solved it. Correct.

Toliy [01:38:29]:
What makes you believe.

Mike [01:38:33]:
What were you saying?

Eldar [01:38:34]:
I'm saying that he's like, what makes suffering a teacher? I said the onset of it, right?

Toliy [01:38:38]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:38:38]:
You recognizing that, hey, I'm suffering because it hurts.

Mike [01:38:41]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:38:41]:
Okay, then that. That gives you the question, why? Why am I suffering? Why am I doing this? Why keep heading my head, keep hitting my head against the same problem? Yes. All right. If you don't do. If you finally ask yourself that question and you found a solution to do it, but you don't do it, suffering will come back to you again. You're gonna step in that same fire, right? It's gonna remind you, hey, bro, you actually didn't solve.

Toliy [01:39:03]:
Wait, do you, do you feel that for you to be aware that what's happening is something that you don't like. There needs to be awareness of something that is out there that you actually like.

Eldar [01:39:15]:
You asking the light or the dark or the white and the black question?

Toliy [01:39:20]:
No, I'm saying, is that, like, is.

Eldar [01:39:21]:
That there be white without black and black without white?

Toliy [01:39:23]:
No, no, I'm saying, is that a requirement? Is it a requirement for you? Is it a requirement for you to know that there's something better out there, to know that what you're. What's going on? You're not happy with?

Mike [01:39:41]:
I don't know if it's a requirement. It just comes along with it.

Toliy [01:39:44]:
Well, like, can you be unhappy with something or saying, like, yo, I don't like this? Cause you're saying, I don't like this.

Eldar [01:39:51]:
No, I'm. What I'm saying is that it hurts.

Toliy [01:39:53]:
Okay. This hurts.

Eldar [01:39:54]:
This hurts. I don't like this afterwards. Right. This hurts. Therefore, I don't like it. It hurts. Therefore, I don't like it.

Toliy [01:40:01]:
So I don't like it.

Eldar [01:40:02]:
I can't like things that are painful. Right. Unless you're.

Toliy [01:40:07]:
And how did you def. And how did you define that? Like, how are you able to define and acknowledge I like.

Eldar [01:40:14]:
That hurts? Well, again, you're going back to that question. Let me poke you with a pin. Let me punch you in your stomach.

Toliy [01:40:23]:
Okay? Can you talk about things that are not the permanent things?

Eldar [01:40:27]:
Okay, no problem. Um, let me scare you with an anxious thought. Uh, let me talk. Let me talk about self esteem. You're fat.

Toliy [01:40:36]:
Okay? But are you able to do that without, like, those things are only able to be done with, like, a. Some kind of, like, understanding or history. Right. Of, like.

Eldar [01:40:52]:
That this person is receptive to the pain.

Toliy [01:40:56]:
No, no, I'm saying that for you to be receptive. Receptive, for example, to. To someone insulting you, like, for example, in self esteem.

Eldar [01:41:03]:
Sure.

Toliy [01:41:04]:
Right. You need to be a certain buyer of those things to begin with. Right.

Eldar [01:41:10]:
You have to be receptive to that type of pain. Yes.

Toliy [01:41:12]:
Yes.

Eldar [01:41:13]:
Correct.

Toliy [01:41:13]:
Are there people who are not receptive.

Mike [01:41:15]:
To that type of pain?

Eldar [01:41:16]:
100%. What do you mean, 100%?

Toliy [01:41:18]:
Okay.

Eldar [01:41:19]:
That person solved that issue.

Toliy [01:41:21]:
Okay.

Eldar [01:41:22]:
However, there's people. There's plenty of people that we know that haven't solved that issue right there. We're like, holy shit, my life is.

Toliy [01:41:31]:
That's what I'm saying, is that the.

Eldar [01:41:34]:
Pain is a teacher, bro.

Mike [01:41:36]:
That person just didn't have that about himself. Just.

Toliy [01:41:39]:
Are there people that never. That. That never suffered with that kind of pain, ever?

Eldar [01:41:44]:
The trees, they're not people, though, huh? I'm not sure. I'm not sure.

Toliy [01:41:51]:
That for you to not have self esteem issues, for example, do you have to 100% at one point have self esteem issues.

Eldar [01:42:00]:
If you solve something? Yeah.

Toliy [01:42:02]:
No, no, no. If you don't suffer from self esteem issues.

Eldar [01:42:05]:
Yeah.

Toliy [01:42:06]:
Do you have to at 1.1 hundred percent have had to have self esteem issues?

Mike [01:42:11]:
No, that's what I'm saying. What he's saying that can you have self esteem now without having. Not having self esteem before?

Eldar [01:42:24]:
There's no self esteem, bro. Yeah, there's no such thing then.

Toliy [01:42:30]:
No, there is.

Eldar [01:42:31]:
There isn't.

Toliy [01:42:32]:
There is.

Eldar [01:42:32]:
There isn't. You can't call it good or bad.

Tommy [01:42:36]:
Why not?

Eldar [01:42:36]:
Because it's out of that person's existence.

Toliy [01:42:39]:
No, but they have. So they don't have self esteem issues.

Eldar [01:42:44]:
Yeah. They're not subjected to that pain.

Toliy [01:42:46]:
They're not subjected to that pain.

Eldar [01:42:47]:
So what is the point?

Toliy [01:42:48]:
So I'm saying that if they're not subject to that pain, it is that 100% that they were once worse subjected to that pain. Because you were saying that they solved it and I was saying that I don't think that they have had to, like, I don't think that they have had to have been subjected to that pain to experience.

Eldar [01:43:03]:
Oh, you're saying that they just inherently never had it. Yeah, inherently. Okay, sure. So what's the point? What is the point of that? I don't understand.

Toliy [01:43:14]:
So it was time.

Eldar [01:43:16]:
I'm talking about suffering and pain. Suffering and pain being the teachers or the onset and then also the reminders of. Right. Of the fact that this is actually going on. We're clearly talking about something that exists within an individual that's trying. That's that experiencing the pain. Like Mike said, an example where it's like, alright, cool, like, like, how do we solve something that I'm not suffering from? Like, you know, like it's. It's the.

Toliy [01:43:42]:
Yeah, no, I'm just. I'm just trying to wrap my mind around how. How is this pain scale created and how. Because, like, it's clear, clearly not universal, not all the same people suffer from.

Mike [01:43:54]:
The same pain, from pain and are.

Toliy [01:43:58]:
Susceptible to the same pains.

Eldar [01:44:00]:
I agree with.

Toliy [01:44:01]:
That's what I'm saying. Because of that, you having the ability to feel that particular pain to me sounds like a learned behavior. It's not like.

Eldar [01:44:14]:
Yeah, but how does that help the argument?

Toliy [01:44:16]:
Because it's not like innate things like you're hungry because you don't have food.

Eldar [01:44:21]:
Sure. Learn behavior or not, totally. It's. It's still producing pain, right? If it's still producing pain and suffering, how's that? Art is argument to it. Being a teacher in the first onset, as to. You start asking questions why I want to stop this. I'd like to stop suffering. All right.

Eldar [01:44:37]:
I'm not sure if human beings are programmed to suffer and not think about their suffering. You know what I'm saying? I think when we feel pain, we're like, yo, get away from me. Or like, what the hell? Why is this happening to me? Yeah, you know, maybe not consciously, right? First we're not conscious about it. Let's run away from it. Ah, you know what I mean? We're thinking, you know, how to solve it a certain type of way. We're wrong at solving it. Sure.

Mike [01:45:00]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:45:00]:
You know what I mean? But suffering is rooted in such a way. Like you said, you can't get away from it. It'll keep coming back to teach you, to teach you a particular way, find out a particular way to solve this pain, or it's gonna keep coming back. Right. It's almost like a test. Teachers do what? They test you. Here. Here's another one.

Eldar [01:45:22]:
Let's see how you react. Here's another one. Here's another one. Here's another. You like, wait a second. I don't work anymore. Anymore. Gone.

Eldar [01:45:28]:
I'm not. I'm pain free. It's gone. You've never experienced that before? Hmm.

Tommy [01:45:35]:
I think. I think it even teaches you, really, at the first moment.

Eldar [01:45:39]:
Well, that just. Yes, Tom, talk about that, please. Why do you have that thought? Okay.

Tommy [01:45:44]:
I mean, this is a totally robbed, like, idea, but the idea that, like, you know, you don't have some things, you know, like, as simple as laundry really came to me from a book that I read. And it makes sense to me that when suddenly everything's. When everything is going great, that when that one little. That one last sock that you don't want to wear is the only one left in the drawer. Well, that's a kind of bummer right away. That tells you this process is longer than I assumed it was going to be. The process of me living my life all comes back to this one drawer.

Mike [01:46:22]:
You live in a sock drawer?

Tommy [01:46:25]:
No, but you do live in a stinky house if you don't have any socks to wear. I love, you know what I'm saying? I mean, and that's true. Or let's just say that it's just the floor that needs to be cleaned, and then suddenly, you know, like, you can't exercise. You can't watch tv. You can't read a book in your room. These are three things that bring you pleasure that are brought on by an empty sock drawer.

Toliy [01:46:54]:
Wait, why can't you do. Why can't you read a book in your room if you have stinky feet?

Mike [01:46:58]:
Because it smells like cheese.

Eldar [01:47:00]:
Oh, my God. That's disgusting. And you're so susceptible to bad smells.

Mike [01:47:04]:
Yes.

Eldar [01:47:04]:
It's completely throwing you off. When I reading, you can't focus. No.

Mike [01:47:08]:
And you're in pain because reading is something you really love.

Eldar [01:47:10]:
Correct. Correct.

Toliy [01:47:12]:
Tom, is that what you were gonna say?

Eldar [01:47:14]:
Exactly what he's gonna say. It's. But he's gonna talk about self esteem more.

Toliy [01:47:18]:
Right.

Tommy [01:47:18]:
I guess I don't necessarily plan to, you know, just be happy because something in the morning just picks me up, and I just. It lifts me up. That's it. There's spirit in my day, but I don't plan, you know, for that to happen. And when I realize I don't have it anymore, that happiness that I might have, that spirit I might have. Because I smell that.

Toliy [01:47:44]:
Haunting, that haunting aroma.

Eldar [01:47:49]:
This.

Tommy [01:47:49]:
You remember that scene in the matrix where he's like, this world stench?

Mike [01:47:56]:
He has this in the matrix.

Eldar [01:47:58]:
That's.

Tommy [01:47:58]:
That's.

Mike [01:47:58]:
You might not get that reference.

Tommy [01:47:59]:
That's what I'm talking about. Just. That's the dirty sock problem. If that's the life's dirty sock problem.

Eldar [01:48:05]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:48:05]:
The sock is a metaphor. Is a metaphor for your pain. For your pain.

Toliy [01:48:10]:
Now, that caused it.

Tommy [01:48:11]:
That I'll say is original, that. That. The whole dirty side.

Mike [01:48:13]:
Not doing the things that are important to you. Like having, you know, clean socks.

Eldar [01:48:18]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:48:19]:
Or a clean mind.

Eldar [01:48:20]:
Yeah.

Tommy [01:48:21]:
Yeah, I guess so.

Eldar [01:48:22]:
Yeah. Imagine he paints a picture that you will never paint, clearly, of everything being perfect.

Tommy [01:48:28]:
Clearly.

Eldar [01:48:28]:
Everything being perfect. This is a perfect room, right? Everything set up so nicely. Right. It's beautiful.

Tommy [01:48:35]:
It is beautiful.

Eldar [01:48:35]:
It is beautiful.

Toliy [01:48:36]:
Okay, I'm with you.

Eldar [01:48:37]:
I can see there's a dirty sock laying on the floor. Everything else is beautiful. And the person that's sitting there, he's very sad. And the people will connect that the reason why he's sad is because that dirty sock is on the floor.

Mike [01:48:48]:
That's like life, Tom. Life is like a beautiful room. And you just have a bunch of dirty shit on the floor.

Tommy [01:48:53]:
No, no. Just one dirty son.

Mike [01:48:55]:
Well, he only. His life is. Only has one dirty son.

Eldar [01:48:58]:
So if you want. If anybody was listening and wants to buy this painting. Yeah. Tom can make. Yes. Correct.

Toliy [01:49:05]:
Tom will not draw it. For you.

Eldar [01:49:07]:
Yeah. He cannot draw for you.

Mike [01:49:09]:
He will not draw for you for a very nice sum of money.

Eldar [01:49:11]:
Correct. So reach out to us again and find out to make an appointment with him. You can do it live. You can do it virtually or in person. He will not draw.

Mike [01:49:23]:
Did you say cannot?

Toliy [01:49:24]:
Will not draw?

Eldar [01:49:27]:
Yes. He will not draw a babe, because Tom is a different type of artist. Okay. This is an artist that never have painted, have any. Have produced any type of artwork in the physical realm. Yes. Okay. And this is not even in the metaverse.

Eldar [01:49:40]:
Okay. You know? Okay. But, yeah. So the bit starts now. Feel free to reach out to us. And I can make a random.

Toliy [01:49:51]:
What's the best I'm starting at?

Eldar [01:49:54]:
Is it a virtual or what's the name? In person session. In person, probably, depending on location. United States.

Toliy [01:50:02]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:50:02]:
15 to 20,000. Well, yeah. Tom, why are you laughing?

Mike [01:50:12]:
So is there. Is there another teacher? Is that who he was asking earlier?

Eldar [01:50:16]:
No, he was trying to say something. Yeah. No, yeah. I mean, he's trying to say that you're like, I'm not sure something is a person.

Mike [01:50:23]:
Suffering is required because we're trying to solve problems that we have ready. If we're trying to, you know, let's say you want to add something to your life, then you don't have to use suffering because it's something new. And then you can, you know, use logic and reason and I don't know, then I. In order to avoid suffering potentially.

Eldar [01:50:44]:
Right. Yeah.

Mike [01:50:45]:
You can think ahead, but because we already come with loaded baggage, I think suffering is one of the tools. I'm not sure if there's others. It's definitely one of the tools to unload the baggage.

Eldar [01:50:56]:
Correct. Because it's readily available for a lot of people, like you said. Right. Yeah. Not a lot of people are being, I think, raised in such a way to avoid that which is human about us, which is we being prone to suffering.

Toliy [01:51:08]:
My suffering comes free with your added on cost, doesn't it?

Mike [01:51:15]:
Doesn't it?

Eldar [01:51:16]:
Huh?

Tommy [01:51:16]:
Doesn't come free.

Eldar [01:51:17]:
What?

Tommy [01:51:17]:
Suffering?

Mike [01:51:20]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:51:21]:
Does it come free? No, you know, it's not free.

Mike [01:51:25]:
No.

Eldar [01:51:26]:
Free. You definitely paid for it.

Mike [01:51:28]:
You know, it definitely has the price, but it's included.

Toliy [01:51:32]:
Like, it's.

Tommy [01:51:33]:
Well, he's got the money.

Eldar [01:51:35]:
Yeah, no, it's included.

Mike [01:51:36]:
Yeah, it's included. That's what I'm saying.

Eldar [01:51:38]:
See?

Tommy [01:51:38]:
So you said you got.

Eldar [01:51:39]:
You got.

Tommy [01:51:40]:
You got enough resources to get yourself anything you need in the realm of.

Toliy [01:51:45]:
Like, having a good morning right now, within your.

Mike [01:51:49]:
He has all the physical needs.

Tommy [01:51:51]:
Now you're within your means.

Eldar [01:51:53]:
So.

Tommy [01:51:55]:
Maybe you're suffering is from without your means.

Mike [01:52:00]:
100%. Whatever you say.

Toliy [01:52:03]:
Well, the suffering is.

Tommy [01:52:04]:
It's outside of what you're able to attain.

Mike [01:52:07]:
He's suffering because he doesn't have the actual things that he needs.

Eldar [01:52:10]:
Yeah.

Tommy [01:52:10]:
It's internal. Yeah, it is. Well, I mean, I don't think a sock drawer is internal.

Toliy [01:52:17]:
What do you mean?

Eldar [01:52:17]:
Well, for you, Tom, you're the one who's suffering from a physical experience. Not totally. He said that. Look, my morning. My morning routine is not bound by any physical things because I can attain and do them if I wanted to. Right. But the problem is that he can't because he doesn't want to. He doesn't know how to do it.

Eldar [01:52:34]:
You know, he can't. Like, mentally, he can't get out of bed and feel good about himself.

Toliy [01:52:39]:
I see.

Eldar [01:52:40]:
I see. So, you know, doesn't mean that he can't make himself a nice coffee. For a lot of people it is, yeah.

Tommy [01:52:46]:
Now, is it because you wake up late or. Or what. What does get in your way? I guess I should say, like, what is that anxiety that everything provokes you when it comes to, you know, the morning routine?

Eldar [01:52:59]:
Remember those things that you said, tom, about that, you know, nothing actually happened yet, but everything already is mushed. Everything's already fucked up. He has those same things. Right? It's all the other stuff that's bombarding him that's already ruined everything to begin with.

Tommy [01:53:16]:
There's like, this thing that I learned that, you know, can make, like, your day a little bit better, knowing that you have one routine followed by another routine. You know, for instance, like Eldar said, he washes his face and he likes to take out the dog. And these are two things that maybe.

Eldar [01:53:31]:
I never take out my dog, Tom, though, for what?

Tommy [01:53:35]:
Two things possibly that could work, right?

Eldar [01:53:38]:
And I'm under the impression, or I think that that would make me happy, but that might not be the case at all.

Toliy [01:53:46]:
All right.

Tommy [01:53:47]:
Well, yeah, so I guess what makes you happy, right? And you start from there, because if you start living like, you know, thinking, you start thinking about why this routine is going to work and what kind of impact it's going to have and everything like that, then, yeah, you're going to suffer.

Toliy [01:54:08]:
Is there a hundred percent chance that you know for sure what will.

Tommy [01:54:14]:
What will make you suffer?

Toliy [01:54:16]:
No.

Tommy [01:54:17]:
What will make you happy? Yeah, there's. There's definitely a hundred percent chance that they will know what. What will make you happy? Why? Why will you know what?

Toliy [01:54:30]:
How do you know 100% that you know what will make, let's say, relieve.

Tommy [01:54:34]:
Some of that suffering? Okay. Let's put that hypothetical out there and.

Eldar [01:54:37]:
Say yourself, yeah, but if you. Yeah, if you were leaving a very specific suffering, you have to talk about that. What the hell does me having to do with walking Archie outside in the morning have Danny do with my suffering?

Tommy [01:54:47]:
Let's say. Let's say. Was that one Archie chased down a little squirrel, and just the way the sun was coming up over the, you know, over the. Over the hill over there, and it's just, you know, could. It could have been that could have been some fresh air or someone said, some people, like, I left my house this morning, starting my morning not really the way I wanted to start it.

Eldar [01:55:09]:
Okay.

Tommy [01:55:10]:
Like I mentioned already.

Eldar [01:55:11]:
Yeah.

Tommy [01:55:12]:
Somebody walking on. Was walking by my house in the morning, nodded to me. I nodded to them. They said, good morning. I said, good morning. That kind of started my morning really nicely. Hey, I don't plan for that, but it does make me appreciate that there are certain things that do make me happy. You know, like in Paris, everyone says, good morning, bonjour.

Mike [01:55:37]:
No, it's.

Tommy [01:55:38]:
I think it's. Maybe it's part of the.

Toliy [01:55:40]:
Maybe that's part of routine.

Mike [01:55:41]:
Maybe it's actually all fluff. Nobody actually.

Tommy [01:55:45]:
You're a nihilist, dude.

Eldar [01:55:48]:
Plus, I'm not trying to put all my chips on the fact that my neighbor's gonna wake up. I think he's the real outside and.

Tommy [01:55:53]:
Say, he's the realist. Yeah, he's definitely the realist. And I'm saying, I used to be a realisthe like you. You lift things out as if, like, you know, there are, like, two people maybe in t's head saying, well, should I be going to do this sock drawer thing, or should I not buy into this nonsense? Well, you know, that sock drawer thing is kind of a good idea, but I'm not really so sure about that, you know? And now, I don't know. That's. That's the thing. If something will make you happy, I.

Mike [01:56:26]:
Suppose the battle within is you are.

Tommy [01:56:28]:
Throwing and you trying to see what.

Mike [01:56:30]:
You want to be, Tom.

Eldar [01:56:32]:
Huh?

Tommy [01:56:33]:
The battle between who you are and who you want to be.

Mike [01:56:35]:
The battle within is always between who you. Who you are, who you want to think you want to be.

Eldar [01:56:41]:
Yeah. Yeah. You're fighting.

Mike [01:56:45]:
Correct, to wake up in the morning because of some bullshit that you bought into. But that does not align with the bullshit that you yourself are.

Eldar [01:56:55]:
Yeah. And you keep selling yourself that bullshit. Yeah, but this is who you are, this who you want to be and stuff like that without actually examining the fact that, like, it's really gonna bring.

Tommy [01:57:05]:
Shame, especially if you feel like you have people around you or unsupportive of your reality, say, you know, you want to be doing this thing.

Eldar [01:57:13]:
Good. You see, now we're going down a rabbit hole, Tom. You don't feel like the people around you actually support that, what you're doing. Therefore, you have to pretend to be busy in the morning time.

Mike [01:57:25]:
Yes. That's why you leave the house. That's why you leave the house at 07:00 a.m. and sit at Starbucks for 8 hours.

Eldar [01:57:32]:
Thank you.

Mike [01:57:32]:
Pretending to do something.

Eldar [01:57:33]:
Thank you. But, yeah, but, and, Tom, it's okay to be a pretender.

Tommy [01:57:41]:
What are you telling me? I'm just a liar over here? He's the realist.

Eldar [01:57:48]:
There you go. Perfectly fine, you know, so is it.

Toliy [01:57:54]:
Fair to say, for example, if we're talking about the morning thing, based on what, for example, mike is saying, is it fair to say, like, hey, I don't like what's going on in the morning right now, but I'm not sure what will make it, like, what I will like.

Eldar [01:58:07]:
Yeah, I think that's a step, 100%. That's a better step, 100%. You acknowledge the fact that this is happening. You acknowledge your pain.

Toliy [01:58:17]:
It does not sound like it's that good.

Eldar [01:58:18]:
Yeah. No, it's you saying it because you're doing it right. Does it feel really good?

Toliy [01:58:22]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:58:22]:
Right. And I'm not sure what to do yet.

Toliy [01:58:25]:
Okay. No, no, no.

Eldar [01:58:27]:
Let me ask, but I'd like to find out.

Toliy [01:58:29]:
Let me ask you this. People that wake up in the morning.

Eldar [01:58:32]:
You'Re trying to set me up.

Mike [01:58:33]:
You sign up for this?

Eldar [01:58:34]:
Yeah. Yeah. You're gonna try to set me up?

Mike [01:58:36]:
Yeah.

Toliy [01:58:37]:
Okay. The people that wake up in the morning and that feel like they got hit by a bus.

Eldar [01:58:42]:
Mm hmm.

Toliy [01:58:42]:
But feel like this is how it's supposed to be.

Eldar [01:58:44]:
Oh, my God. That's actually very, no, no, no. You finish it.

Toliy [01:58:51]:
Right.

Eldar [01:58:52]:
I'm following you now.

Mike [01:58:53]:
Okay.

Toliy [01:58:54]:
All right.

Eldar [01:58:54]:
Following.

Toliy [01:58:54]:
This is how they feel like.

Eldar [01:58:56]:
Yeah.

Toliy [01:58:56]:
Are they suffering?

Eldar [01:58:57]:
If you woke up, you got hit by a bus, but you said it's supposed to be like, I feel.

Toliy [01:59:02]:
I wake up, and I feel like I get hit by a bus.

Eldar [01:59:04]:
No, they're not suffering. They're getting what they deserve. That's what I was saying.

Toliy [01:59:10]:
That's what I'm trying to say before. What that, like, like, that, like, that.

Eldar [01:59:17]:
You justify your suffering, bro. No, it's not. This does not mean that.

Toliy [01:59:21]:
My other point about like, the learned, the learned behavior and the actual awareness.

Eldar [01:59:26]:
Yeah.

Toliy [01:59:26]:
To the suffering.

Eldar [01:59:28]:
Yeah. You. Yeah. You've justified it. It does not mean that you're not experiencing suffering.

Mike [01:59:35]:
It happens at both ends. Either you deserve to wake up in a good mood.

Eldar [01:59:39]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:59:39]:
Or deserve to wake up in a bad.

Eldar [01:59:40]:
Yeah. The suffering is a suffering though. Yeah. You didn't, you didn't negate it. It said, oh, okay, it's not actually suffering. And now I'm suffering. You know what I'm saying?

Toliy [01:59:47]:
No.

Eldar [01:59:48]:
Right, well, you're still suffering. You got hit by a bus. You feel like you had by a boss.

Toliy [01:59:52]:
Normal.

Eldar [01:59:53]:
Hey, bro, like, what do you, I mean, then, then you're not suffering.

Mike [01:59:56]:
Then, then you know, then you have a different condition.

Toliy [02:00:00]:
No, no.

Eldar [02:00:01]:
You didn't get hit by a boss. No, no, no.

Toliy [02:00:04]:
No. Like, it may not be how, like you associate or feel by the situation. You'd be like, like that. That can also be seen from an outsider point of view.

Mike [02:00:12]:
Right.

Toliy [02:00:13]:
Like, yo, like this, what to call.

Eldar [02:00:15]:
Like, no, no, forget about the outside. Don't bring the outside variable outsider perspective of it. If you yourself said, hey, I got hit by a bus.

Toliy [02:00:23]:
No, I'm saying that you are like you're waking up in the morning and you are feeling like you're getting hit by a bus.

Eldar [02:00:29]:
Okay, there you go. Stop right there.

Mike [02:00:31]:
Okay.

Eldar [02:00:31]:
So what is that?

Mike [02:00:32]:
Unless you like getting hit by a bus.

Toliy [02:00:34]:
Yeah.

Tommy [02:00:34]:
Why, why are you looking at me?

Toliy [02:00:36]:
So what it sounds like to me.

Eldar [02:00:39]:
Then, then you said to yourself, hey, suffering, feeling this.

Toliy [02:00:43]:
But it sounds like. So for example, for the, for the people that that's happening to, right, getting hit by a bus, that they're getting hit by bus. But that suffering, we're acknowledging that a suffering has been, has been now like justified or created into normalized behavior. Now it is no longer viewed upon by that individual as suffering.

Eldar [02:01:06]:
But is it suffering? Totally. It is.

Toliy [02:01:10]:
It is. But that's what I'm calling that person has skewed. Yes.

Eldar [02:01:15]:
Right.

Toliy [02:01:16]:
Now, suffering, I don't think is a teacher for that individual because they have. No, they have, they have found ways for the moment.

Eldar [02:01:26]:
For the moment, that person is not using that specific suffering as the teacher for sure. But it will one day be the teacher.

Toliy [02:01:35]:
It could.

Eldar [02:01:36]:
No, it will. It could. Yeah, but why? Why? Why? Because suffering is what?

Mike [02:01:44]:
Not sustainable.

Eldar [02:01:45]:
It hurts.

Mike [02:01:46]:
It hurts.

Eldar [02:01:47]:
Yeah. It inherently hurts.

Mike [02:01:48]:
Yeah. You can only put on the thing for so long, bro.

Eldar [02:01:52]:
You know, sooner or later you're gonna wake up and be like, what the fuck?

Toliy [02:01:56]:
Yeah.

Mike [02:01:57]:
Either you're gonna give out your mind or your body. Something's gonna give.

Eldar [02:02:00]:
Correct. Yeah.

Toliy [02:02:00]:
I just feel like you could get to a point where it's normalized feelings.

Eldar [02:02:04]:
Normalized. That's the thing. That's why I don't think we go into this conversation totally saying that, like, hey, guys, you know what I mean?

Toliy [02:02:10]:
Duh.

Eldar [02:02:11]:
Suffering is a teacher. You understand? We came to this conclusion because of what we evaluated, what we discussed. You know what I'm saying? I don't think a lot of people use suffering as a fucking teacher or learning experience. Think those people that actually do get somewhere and that is where they have the ability. Okay.

Toliy [02:02:32]:
Should be used as.

Eldar [02:02:33]:
Yeah, because. Yeah, because I should be, you know, I still believe it is. It should be used because. It should be used because it's a great tool. Because it is. Because it is.

Mike [02:02:46]:
It is a good tool.

Eldar [02:02:46]:
No, no, but why would you use suffering? Well, tell me then. Why would you use suffering? You're gonna start naming the things that I'm discussing. Why should suffering be used?

Toliy [02:02:58]:
I think he's talking about. Wait, which area?

Mike [02:03:02]:
Hurry up.

Toliy [02:03:03]:
Tom said, before we can continue the fence, we need this mess clean.

Eldar [02:03:08]:
He said, let's go to the air in the room. Yeah.

Tommy [02:03:09]:
Why? I think that we typically don't use suffering on a given. Given, like, on an everyday basis as a word, because it's a sort of extreme case.

Eldar [02:03:19]:
What's not, Tom?

Tommy [02:03:22]:
Offense to that? Like, hi, how are you? You look like you're suffering today.

Eldar [02:03:27]:
What the hell? Like, yeah, yeah.

Tommy [02:03:32]:
You hear it? Maybe now or. But no, no, but for real. I think. I think that the idea is.

Eldar [02:03:37]:
I think if we start talking like that, I think, Tom, we're gonna have a lot more genuine conversation around the top.

Tommy [02:03:42]:
Anxiety.

Eldar [02:03:42]:
And they're actually addressing it properly. Irritation, we have to give it respect.

Tommy [02:03:45]:
Anger, maybe. You know, that's kind of like things.

Eldar [02:03:48]:
Like to respect, which we don't. You know what I'm saying? We disrespected it a long time ago because we don't consider it as a teacher. You understand? It's supposed to be this way. We say what? That's what he said. He's. I've conditioned myself to say that. This boss that keeps hitting me every morning.

Toliy [02:04:07]:
No, I'm saying that some. Some people just. I agree, normalize.

Eldar [02:04:10]:
Well, think about that.

Toliy [02:04:12]:
Yeah.

Eldar [02:04:12]:
We took a concept. Yeah.

Toliy [02:04:14]:
When they say it is, it is what it is. We're like, that's how shit works.

Eldar [02:04:18]:
Look what happened. Yeah, but because they're not seeing it for what it is.

Toliy [02:04:21]:
You're supposed to eat shit for 40 years, retire, enjoy your fucking life.

Eldar [02:04:25]:
Exactly.

Toliy [02:04:26]:
Your old ass.

Eldar [02:04:27]:
Exactly.

Toliy [02:04:27]:
You have.

Eldar [02:04:28]:
Exactly.

Toliy [02:04:28]:
You're supposed to do this.

Eldar [02:04:30]:
Yes. Yes. You've proven the point that suffering is being looked upon the wrong way.

Toliy [02:04:36]:
Yeah. And I think that the right reason people do suffer is because in that process, there's a square peg trying to be stuffed into a circular hole.

Tommy [02:04:45]:
Oh, give me a fucking break.

Mike [02:04:48]:
This fucking guy using, right or no.

Toliy [02:04:52]:
You have the world. You. You have what. What people think is society, right? Putting people on, past. They're not fucking supposed to be on.

Mike [02:05:01]:
They are.

Toliy [02:05:02]:
And that's why they have. And that's why they're suffering to begin with.

Eldar [02:05:06]:
Yeah, because they got. Mike said, safari is guaranteed. It's super necessary.

Mike [02:05:13]:
And it's. Yo, it's super deserved.

Eldar [02:05:15]:
It's super deserved.

Mike [02:05:16]:
Super.

Eldar [02:05:16]:
You know what I'm saying?

Mike [02:05:18]:
Super.

Eldar [02:05:19]:
But if we flipped it and said, okay, cool. Why are you experiencing pain here? Let's discuss it. Why? Super. Just let's. Let's take a break here. Everything. Let's ask why. Where the bus came from, the morning bus that hit you.

Mike [02:05:31]:
Yeah.

Eldar [02:05:33]:
If it's hitting you every time, why? Yeah.

Tommy [02:05:36]:
You know what?

Toliy [02:05:36]:
I have an example here.

Tommy [02:05:37]:
I was sitting there.

Mike [02:05:37]:
The bus comes.

Eldar [02:05:38]:
Drives the same route every day, bro. Every day, bro. It picks people, some people up.

Mike [02:05:42]:
Yeah.

Tommy [02:05:43]:
Here, this example. Listen, I was sitting in front of Tom.

Eldar [02:05:46]:
If you bring the example with the sock again, I'm gonna actually appreciate you even more because I realize how deep you really are in the cave.

Tommy [02:05:55]:
I was sitting in french class once, and the teacher, she asked me something like, ask me something. Doesn't matter. And I just sort of started talking about it. It had something to do with school, maybe studies. And she was like. And I just kept going on and on and on. And she was like, you know, you're really like a politician because you keep talking in circles.

Eldar [02:06:19]:
Was that a compliment or this?

Tommy [02:06:23]:
Like, you never get to the point.

Eldar [02:06:25]:
That's it.

Tommy [02:06:25]:
You never get to the point.

Eldar [02:06:26]:
Right. Yeah. But you were saying this because you were trying to make your paint yourself as a.

Tommy [02:06:31]:
It was like, uh.

Toliy [02:06:32]:
I forgot what.

Tommy [02:06:32]:
I really wish I remember what the question was.

Toliy [02:06:35]:
But.

Tommy [02:06:37]:
That really brought me, like, into tune with the things that I talked about in, like, one of the previous episodes. Like, when we were talking about, um, like, how I think in terms of, like, being a student and in that situation, going in there and saying, like, okay, class, like, you know, from now on, like, I want you to understand that this person who's teaching you is officially the professor.

Eldar [02:06:59]:
Yeah, but.

Tommy [02:07:04]:
But me, you know, from now on, I want you to ask me any questions.

Eldar [02:07:09]:
That's right.

Tommy [02:07:11]:
Um, because I'm really the professor.

Eldar [02:07:13]:
That's right. I'm giving this guy a chance.

Tommy [02:07:16]:
Yes. I'm giving it.

Eldar [02:07:18]:
No.

Tommy [02:07:22]:
That. That question or whatever, that. That comment, it really put me on my place that day. Because I went from thinking, like, I've got some brains and I'm worth something.

Eldar [02:07:37]:
To backing up to.

Tommy [02:07:38]:
To being like, you know, like, well.

Toliy [02:07:42]:
Mark, I don't really.

Tommy [02:07:44]:
Yeah, like, you know what I mean? It was like, now I'm being told that, you know, I sound like I'm just talking in circles, and I never get to the point. Like, I don't answer questions thinking like I'm an idiot.

Eldar [02:07:55]:
Right.

Tommy [02:07:56]:
Like that.

Eldar [02:07:56]:
Okay, good. You're actually clever.

Mike [02:07:58]:
We're talking in circles.

Eldar [02:08:00]:
We're good.

Tommy [02:08:02]:
And, dude, I guess you can call it. I guess you're gonna call that.

Eldar [02:08:06]:
Dunk her back in there.

Tommy [02:08:08]:
I think you can call that a form of suffering.

Eldar [02:08:11]:
What form? Which. Which part?

Toliy [02:08:13]:
Feeling. Feeling.

Tommy [02:08:14]:
Something about how somebody says to you, taking it personally, you know? You know what I mean? Okay, so say somebody says, like, you know, you gotta wake up at 05:00 a.m. at 05:00 a.m. you gotta do 100 push ups, 50 sit ups. That way you're mentally prepared for the. For what comes next. After that, you take a cold bath. After that, you eat, like, God knows what, like brown rice that you made the week before for the entire week after that. Like.

Tommy [02:08:44]:
And then, you know what I mean? You maybe just don't, you know? You know, you're not. You're unable to do it.

Mike [02:08:50]:
You gotta wake up in the morning, Tom, and show the world your ass, and then have fun. No, stop eating old brown rice.

Tommy [02:08:58]:
So, you know, I just think. I think you take it personally, right? If you can't follow, like, the five most important things to do in the.

Mike [02:09:07]:
Morning, Tom, can you open that window behind me?

Tommy [02:09:11]:
Absolutely not.

Mike [02:09:12]:
Thanks.

Tommy [02:09:12]:
But I'm inviting you to ask me nicely, and maybe I will do it.

Mike [02:09:15]:
No, never mind.

Eldar [02:09:16]:
Okay.

Tommy [02:09:18]:
So, I mean, look, if you can't, let's say, can't do the most, the five most important things to do according to anyone who gives a fuck, you know, in the morning, then you maybe by, through your failure, get suffered through your failure to do so suffer. If you take that idea that I can't meet this. This standard personally in a way. So I'm saying, like, taking things personally, like I did about what that person said about me doing the whole. That whole, you know, round, round thing, talking like a politician. Wrong. In fact, I thought that I was saying something intelligent. That was a way that was, in a way, suffering.

Eldar [02:09:57]:
Maybe they just didn't understand your point.

Toliy [02:10:01]:
Yeah.

Tommy [02:10:01]:
So, I mean, it's strange. Like, I really don't know if. How great the impact is. I do know that the impact of having a routine in the morning is the knowledge of fulfilling the. The need for that routine in the most basic form. Just doing it, like, actually, you know, just to do. Saying that you are a routine based person, saying that. Saying that those few words being a routine based person cannot be a lie.

Tommy [02:10:35]:
It must be true, you know? You know, I'm saying. I'm saying, like, you can't bullshit me and tell me you put on new socks this morning. You know what I mean? Like, drive and don't take it personally.

Mike [02:10:48]:
Drive it home.

Tommy [02:10:48]:
I mean, I'm just saying.

Mike [02:10:52]:
Yeah.

Tommy [02:10:53]:
Now, yo, putting on socks doesn't even make you anything. It just makes you a dressed individual. See what I'm saying?

Mike [02:11:01]:
It does. It depends on the way you put the socks on.

Toliy [02:11:06]:
Okay.

Eldar [02:11:06]:
Okay.

Tommy [02:11:07]:
I mean, in what other ways have you witnessed?

Mike [02:11:09]:
You can put it on with anger, or you should put it on with enthusiasm.

Tommy [02:11:14]:
This kind of goes to, like, elders dog walking things, you know?

Eldar [02:11:17]:
Yeah.

Tommy [02:11:18]:
He may go out and have a walk and enjoy the walk and may think nothing of it the next day, you know?

Eldar [02:11:24]:
That's right. So do we get anywhere? Totally.

Mike [02:11:27]:
They totally was saying something.

Eldar [02:11:28]:
Totally. You were saying something.

Toliy [02:11:32]:
I don't remember what I was saying.

Eldar [02:11:33]:
You.

Tommy [02:11:34]:
You guess you asked, what do. Would you know? 100% what makes you happy.

Toliy [02:11:38]:
Oh, yeah.

Tommy [02:11:39]:
Now, you may not know that that will be the thing that makes you happy, but the suffering ends, or at least the healing process begins when you start to do the thing that you were not doing before.

Toliy [02:11:49]:
Is there a way for you to remove things that make you unhappy without adding things that make you happy?

Eldar [02:11:54]:
Right.

Toliy [02:11:56]:
That's what I'm saying.

Eldar [02:11:57]:
100%.

Mike [02:11:57]:
When you remove things that make you unhappy, you automatically get.

Eldar [02:12:00]:
Yeah, automatically. Well, yeah, yeah.

Tommy [02:12:04]:
Smoking.

Eldar [02:12:04]:
That's my moment in time, right. No, I'm saying living, you being aware.

Toliy [02:12:10]:
I'm saying is that, like, if there's things in your morning routine, for example, that make you unhappy and you remove those.

Eldar [02:12:16]:
Yeah.

Toliy [02:12:16]:
Is that what happiness is, or do you have to add things?

Mike [02:12:20]:
It could be.

Eldar [02:12:22]:
It could be. Because if you if you're talking about a bus, either you get hit every time if you remove that bus alone. Like.

Tommy [02:12:28]:
Right, but you're gonna. What if it's internal only?

Eldar [02:12:31]:
Right? Well, most of it.

Tommy [02:12:32]:
Like, here's this crazy thing that I got, right. It's like, how could you, in a world that has zero objects, tell another person what's right and what's left? How can you explain to that person?

Eldar [02:12:47]:
Well, you don't, because there's no orientation time. What are you talking about?

Tommy [02:12:59]:
That was fucking wild.

Eldar [02:13:01]:
Like, there's nothing there. There's no orientation. There's no left or right. That doesn't exist, Tom. It's always, we're here, we're here.

Tommy [02:13:11]:
Right.

Eldar [02:13:12]:
Right.

Tommy [02:13:12]:
It's like a mind bending thing. I mean, it's not.

Toliy [02:13:20]:
Okay.

Tommy [02:13:20]:
Oh, no. It goes like this. It's without any object, I guess, like in another world, you have to. Like, t lives on Mars. Okay, now, how can you explain to t from earth what's right and what's left? That's kind of what I mean.

Eldar [02:13:40]:
Yeah.

Tommy [02:13:41]:
It's the same shit.

Eldar [02:13:42]:
It's. I mean, to me, I think what you can. You can identify by saying, like, okay, when I point this way, I'm referring to the word left. When I point this way, it's the word, right. But you're not pointing to anything. So it's. It's like, pointless shit.

Toliy [02:13:56]:
Right?

Tommy [02:13:56]:
So, like, you can't really. What I'm saying is, like, it might be difficult to teach you what's right and what's left, in a way. And, like, the argument that I heard was, like, that I read about was, like, the sun. Like, use the sun. But it depends on where you stand. Like.

Eldar [02:14:12]:
Oh, the sun door. There's an object. I mean, that's a big. That's a big object you negated. I thought it was just white space or black space.

Tommy [02:14:20]:
That's pretty good.

Eldar [02:14:22]:
Yeah, but you see nothing but white.

Toliy [02:14:25]:
You would need to create a form of compass to communicate with anybody, any kind of words. And the both individuals need to agree upon a particular key. Right. Like a map.

Eldar [02:14:40]:
Yeah. No, for you, too. You're nowhere. Ever.

Tommy [02:14:45]:
Wait, so what were we saying? We were talking about this bus, right? Like I was gonna say.

Eldar [02:14:51]:
He was asking whether or not when you remove it, you automatically get happy. Happier.

Toliy [02:14:55]:
So, do you get happier or do you get happy?

Eldar [02:14:59]:
I don't know. I mean, you're definitely suffering less, which is good. Which is you're not. Like, happy is, like, maybe elated or whatever, but you might not be experiencing that. But you definitely nothing. You're less sad. Yeah. You look that.

Eldar [02:15:12]:
You could be neutral. Okay. You don't have to have an up or down. Yeah. I mean, you definitely don't have down anymore. You have steady or up. That's probably then a choice. Yeah.

Eldar [02:15:21]:
To see what you're gonna fill yourself with if you remove the bus. And you said, you know what? I always wanted to have a coffee in the morning and sit and watch this because it makes me feel good. So if you add that, replace the boss for that, then you could say that it's making me happy because you. I've proven that to yourself, because every time you do this this way, it makes you happy.

Toliy [02:15:40]:
Yeah.

Eldar [02:15:41]:
So then it's, you know, it depends what you do with it.

Tommy [02:15:45]:
I mean, one, my example is just gonna be like. I thought of the idea of, like, what happens when you are, like, doing something, like smoking. Like when I did and you quit. Well, at first the reason why I ended up smoking again was because I. I just lost this thing and nothing really happened that made me happy afterwards. That's kind of the way I see it. I look at it afterwards and I say, well, you know, when you quit, you just kind of toss out cigarettes and you no longer have that. See what I'm saying? But there's a way of sort of rationalizing.

Tommy [02:16:24]:
I think that's like the psychology term. When you rationalize you. I think rationalism, it just deals with learning from something.

Eldar [02:16:34]:
Right?

Tommy [02:16:34]:
Like the, like the, you know, like, person learning from something that they. They're told, like, real knowledge, you know, like real knowledge of. I do this now, does that for me. I've now learned it, you know? Or, like, when I pick this up and I drop it, it bounces a couple of times, you know? Or if I pick it up higher, it bounces more times. So that's kind of like that idea, I guess. I quit smoking, man, and I ended up smoking again. But when I quit smoking and I started running, the good of the running outweighed the bad of smoking. So I just let the smoking go.

Tommy [02:17:10]:
I think maybe that's what's called being rational. You know what I mean? Finding something good in something bad.

Eldar [02:17:18]:
What?

Tommy [02:17:19]:
Yeah, finding something, like, by turning a negative into a positive, basically.

Eldar [02:17:25]:
Well, no, it's not that. It's not. It's not that you're finding very positive and a negative. It's you seeing it for what it is. If it's a negative, it's a negative. But if it's a. If it's a negative that disguises all this positive or vice versa. Then you have to see it for what it is.

Eldar [02:17:41]:
So that negative is actually was never negative. It was always a positive, like we're talking about.

Toliy [02:17:45]:
Right, right, right.

Eldar [02:17:46]:
I mean, suffering to everybody is a negative now.

Toliy [02:17:48]:
But I feel angry.

Tommy [02:17:50]:
I feel angry sometimes about a lot of things. Like, in my life, you know, whatever it is. Like, because it is. Someone said that, you know. You know, this is the way my parents react when I tell them this or that. Um. That. That anger, in a sense, is just anger.

Tommy [02:18:05]:
Right. But it could be. Say something. A negative might be like a negative could just be a negative. Like, to be angry, there's no good. It's bad. So it could be a negative. But to be angry could also be a reason to exist, like, happier.

Eldar [02:18:28]:
There's definitely a reason why you're angry.

Toliy [02:18:29]:
What? Yeah.

Tommy [02:18:31]:
Absolutely. Absolutely. When you go to your drawer and you see there's nothing in there.

Eldar [02:18:35]:
Right.

Tommy [02:18:36]:
And you have no fucking sock to wear, and now you gotta traipse across the room with that smell just fuming up in your nostrils, you know, and.

Mike [02:18:44]:
Ongoing issue for you, I think.

Tommy [02:18:46]:
And you see what I'm saying? It's.

Eldar [02:18:50]:
We know what to get on for Christmas.

Tommy [02:18:51]:
It's ugly, basically. You know, it's.

Eldar [02:18:53]:
I get it.

Mike [02:18:54]:
I got twelve pairs.

Eldar [02:18:55]:
Twelve pack.

Toliy [02:18:56]:
Yeah.

Eldar [02:18:57]:
You gave it to him already. I'll get it. Yeah, I'll get it.

Tommy [02:18:59]:
And you know what? I guess that's angry.

Eldar [02:19:04]:
If we get you 365 pairs of socks. Yeah. And you could throw one each one out. Would you stop complaining about the socks every day you throw them out. Yeah.

Tommy [02:19:15]:
I. I mean, I'll personally sign. I'll personally sign them. I'll sign them, and we can send them out. And, you know, everyone who has bought my.

Toliy [02:19:25]:
My.

Tommy [02:19:26]:
Not art.

Eldar [02:19:26]:
Listen, this is it. This is it. We're buying Tom 365. I'm gonna sign and we're gonna. He's gonna sign all of them and we're gonna sell them out. We're gonna sell them.

Mike [02:19:37]:
Yeah.

Eldar [02:19:38]:
Okay. Yeah. All right. For each day. Yeah. You're gonna sign them and just date it. Can you date it? Date the sock?

Tommy [02:19:48]:
Absolutely.

Eldar [02:19:50]:
Yeah.

Toliy [02:19:50]:
There's a.

Tommy [02:19:50]:
There's a year turnaround time, so.

Mike [02:19:54]:
We'Ll get you something before January 1, so you can start on the first late.

Eldar [02:19:58]:
All right, cool, Tom. Sounds good. Yum. Yeah.

Tommy [02:20:02]:
And then we can see how the soccer routine works.

Eldar [02:20:04]:
You always wear the same size? Which ones do you like?

Tommy [02:20:08]:
I do wear the same jeans. I'll be honest.

Eldar [02:20:10]:
You like white socks? Like that, like, gold toe white socks.

Tommy [02:20:13]:
These. Oh, okay.

Eldar [02:20:15]:
Three quarters.

Tommy [02:20:16]:
See?

Toliy [02:20:16]:
Actually.

Tommy [02:20:17]:
Here we go. These are actually. These socks are all right, but maybe one of the last pairs that I have in my drawer. So you're talking to me on the day.

Eldar [02:20:25]:
Okay, perfect. Starting a new year, we'll do that. We'll get you 365 socks, and each time, you just put them to the side. The time you wear them, you just sign them, and that's it.

Mike [02:20:35]:
And we'll collect them from.

Tommy [02:20:37]:
Yeah, no, I mean, there. There's. There's something in what he's saying, in that it is maybe just a very general thing. Like, he maybe doesn't give a damn about his morning, and he's just perfectly happy with that smell. And he loves walking around his house and waking up late and basically maybe just walking around in his underpants, you know?

Eldar [02:20:56]:
Yes.

Tommy [02:20:57]:
And that might be cool for you, but what might not be cool for you is the fact that you have that open window or that opportunity to do something that you care about and that makes you happy.

Eldar [02:21:08]:
And how do you do that?

Tommy [02:21:10]:
You discount it or you. You don't believe it's true, because there are many reasons coming from the outside that tell you it's not. It's not for you or you. It won't work out.

Mike [02:21:21]:
How do you do it?

Tommy [02:21:22]:
How do you do it?

Eldar [02:21:23]:
Routine, let's say.

Toliy [02:21:24]:
I'm not following.

Tommy [02:21:25]:
Routine.

Eldar [02:21:26]:
No. Like, a few simple tools that you might fall in.

Tommy [02:21:30]:
Yeah.

Eldar [02:21:32]:
No, I think I lost them at the 365 socks.

Mike [02:21:37]:
That would be so sick.

Eldar [02:21:38]:
Yeah. Every day you have to throw it out. Yeah.

Toliy [02:21:44]:
Yeah. How much would that cost?

Eldar [02:21:46]:
For 300. You get a good deal when you buy both stuff. You know what I mean? All right. Anything else?

Mike [02:21:52]:
Yeah.

Eldar [02:21:53]:
Oh, you asked what?

Mike [02:21:54]:
Thomas. Saying he's gonna solve it.

Toliy [02:21:56]:
Yeah.

Tommy [02:21:57]:
How do you solve the happiness thing?

Eldar [02:21:59]:
Yeah.

Mike [02:21:59]:
Yeah. It's like having a good morning.

Eldar [02:22:01]:
Okay.

Toliy [02:22:02]:
Okay.

Mike [02:22:03]:
So you started yelling.

Tommy [02:22:04]:
I think we can easily do that. Why not? Why not just say.

Eldar [02:22:08]:
Yeah.

Tommy [02:22:09]:
Why not just say your morning. Your morning involves, like, a number of. Just, like, I'd say, one or more rules that you follow. That rules.

Toliy [02:22:22]:
Okay, so we're now gonna apply discipline. Very nice, Tom. It seems like our boy is our Tom.

Mike [02:22:27]:
Okay.

Eldar [02:22:27]:
Yeah. This is terrible. Tom, what do you rule? We fed you. We fed you it on the platter, Tom. The answers.

Tommy [02:22:35]:
We're exactly where we need to be.

Eldar [02:22:37]:
Make sure the rule is, like, perfect. It's compassion towards yourself if it's nothing.

Tommy [02:22:41]:
Well, I spoke out against the whole perfect morning thing to begin with because I felt that I shown nicely that the idea of a perfect morning does not have to be an ideal that we fall short of and that it may be for some. But for instance, for me, it could be an absolute necessity, an importance that gives sort of the right vibe or the right positivity for one morning. You know, it's essential.

Mike [02:23:16]:
All right, pause. Tom.

Tommy [02:23:18]:
Essential. Okay, now, guys, take it from like, someone who cares about words, you know? So let's just say, so why you.

Eldar [02:23:24]:
Use them so loosely?

Tommy [02:23:25]:
Thing is, this thing is this thing. It's like, it's essential. It's positive, it's good. You have a morning and that morning is fulfilled.

Eldar [02:23:35]:
You said a whole bunch of nothing time. You said nice words.

Mike [02:23:37]:
He does talk in circles.

Eldar [02:23:38]:
Yeah, he just said nice words. Right. Positive. All this and all sorts of stuff. But he say anything. He just wants to hold himself to.

Mike [02:23:45]:
The standard of, you don't have dance. Just say, I don't answer.

Eldar [02:23:49]:
You know what I mean?

Mike [02:23:50]:
Just say, you don't have time.

Eldar [02:23:51]:
Just take you already by saying that it has to be this way. It has to be this way. You already at a loss because you can't guarantee that it's going to be positive.

Mike [02:23:59]:
Yeah.

Eldar [02:24:00]:
Tom, I think waking up, you have to assess the situation. That's number one. Like, okay, you woke up. Assess it. Assess yourself.

Tommy [02:24:06]:
Here we go. Now we're getting some.

Eldar [02:24:08]:
You know what I mean?

Tommy [02:24:09]:
Now we're getting.

Eldar [02:24:09]:
By assessing yourself, by assessing yourself, you tell yourself where you're at at that particular moment. Did I get hit by a bus? The bus picked me up overnight. So.

Toliy [02:24:20]:
Good morning. Can I start with the proper assessment?

Eldar [02:24:24]:
Yeah. Yeah. Because I think that a good morning has to constitute of you being good to yourself. There's no other way a good morning has to constitute with you being good to yourself. And part of being good to yourself is you throw shit at yourself. That is. That you can handle. You can't go for a long walk with your dog at that moment because you're not feeling it.

Eldar [02:24:52]:
Your legs hurt, but you just want to push it through because you feel guilty that you don't. It's bad. It's not a good morning.

Tommy [02:25:01]:
Yeah.

Eldar [02:25:02]:
Terrible.

Tommy [02:25:02]:
Working out in anger, you know?

Eldar [02:25:04]:
Yeah. You're gonna do it out of it. Exactly. You're gonna. What you're gonna do is you're gonna breed, give the breeding grounds to anger. I agree with that. Anger at who? At yourself and then your dog. You know, resentment and stuff like that.

Eldar [02:25:19]:
So assess yourself. Yeah.

Tommy [02:25:22]:
Routine is about, see, so that may be different for some people.

Eldar [02:25:25]:
But not what you're saying at all.

Tommy [02:25:26]:
I see. I see a routine for me. I mean, the routine is just about being open to what may come, and then, you know, I guess it is really about taking that time to pause.

Eldar [02:25:38]:
And finally you surrender.

Tommy [02:25:42]:
Yes, there are some things you finally surrendered.

Toliy [02:25:44]:
Really?

Eldar [02:25:45]:
Yeah. You agree to this, Tom. But you know what? Something tells me that you're not gonna do this shit. You're not gonna take the time, pause yourself every time you wake up and actually see how your body feels, how your mind feels, what the situation in your room is right where the socks are, you know?

Tommy [02:26:03]:
Yeah, I definitely have that tendency to.

Eldar [02:26:07]:
Just fomo, just because we're saying that you want to be on board right now, but tomorrow you're gonna go tell everybody else about your fucking, you know, perfect routine. I don't know, Tom. What are we doing here, Tom?

Tommy [02:26:20]:
But I don't have a perfuse routine.

Eldar [02:26:23]:
Good, Tom. See, you don't.

Mike [02:26:25]:
You don't.

Eldar [02:26:26]:
Now, how you gonna bridge the gap between actually doing what you learned today? I did. You'd learned something today.

Tommy [02:26:32]:
Surprise. Well, yeah, I mean, you were under.

Eldar [02:26:36]:
One impression for a very long time with these weird, kooky things that you're doing in the morning, and now you realize that you've been doing it all wrong. You need to actually wake up and.

Tommy [02:26:44]:
Say, oh, I know. I did no such thing. You know, I guess maybe what we're saying is, like, you have to sort of. You have to sort of. Maybe you have to throw and see what sticks again.

Eldar [02:27:06]:
You're going back to that.

Toliy [02:27:07]:
Yeah.

Mike [02:27:08]:
That is enough for one day.

Eldar [02:27:09]:
It's enough for one day. Okay, final thoughts solely. Where did we go? Where did we come from? Where are we going? Where did we get to?

Mike [02:27:18]:
Yeah, I'd love to hear it.

Tommy [02:27:19]:
Have you heard that song when I.

Toliy [02:27:21]:
Joke, where did it come from?

Mike [02:27:23]:
Yeah.

Eldar [02:27:24]:
That's what you felt. Hey, you have a little schemas that work. That's not like.

Mike [02:27:29]:
Yeah, I'm definitely like to hear that.

Eldar [02:27:33]:
Yeah. Where do we start? Total? Where did we start? I can tell you where we started.

Toliy [02:27:39]:
We started out trying to figure out how to jump.

Mike [02:27:42]:
Yeah, that's not where we started.

Eldar [02:27:44]:
We got deeper. Right? We got pretty deep. We found out that the stars have to align. It's a lot of stars. Yeah. Mike mentioned a couple. Just a couple.

Mike [02:27:54]:
Yeah.

Eldar [02:27:57]:
You know, the stars have to line. I'm not gonna win. I feel. I feel bad.

Tommy [02:28:01]:
I'm the one who introduced that idea.

Mike [02:28:03]:
Yeah, but see, all is you buying into those stars.

Eldar [02:28:08]:
I agree with you. That's definitely a part of the step.

Toliy [02:28:12]:
You need to have a desire to.

Eldar [02:28:14]:
To get the star solid. Yes. What might just like. I agree with Mike.

Tommy [02:28:20]:
Yeah.

Mike [02:28:21]:
Yeah. If you don't have a desire, the jigs up.

Eldar [02:28:25]:
Yeah.

Mike [02:28:26]:
Keep on trucking.

Tommy [02:28:30]:
Now. Have to be through the way we described it. Like, I started by saying, okay, it's like you could have your stuff laid out from the night before, and then you could have all this laundry.

Mike [02:28:45]:
Today.

Eldar [02:28:46]:
Yeah.

Tommy [02:28:49]:
But this must be said. It must be said that.

Eldar [02:28:52]:
Yeah, we might not even give you the final words, Tom.

Tommy [02:28:54]:
It must be said that for things to be aligned.

Eldar [02:28:57]:
So now you're calling out and now you're taking away from a person who actually was ready to say the final thoughts.

Tommy [02:29:02]:
Oh, my bad. Please continue.

Eldar [02:29:05]:
See how to do.

Tommy [02:29:06]:
Even though it'll make absolutely no sense, since what I had to say was not said.

Eldar [02:29:11]:
Hold the time. We'll get to it. Totally, totally. What's up, man? My bad. Say something wise. Say something.

Toliy [02:29:18]:
Yeah, I mean, we definitely covered a lot of things.

Eldar [02:29:23]:
I def.

Toliy [02:29:24]:
We definitely need to talk about more about how to jump. Like the steps to jump. I think that that was not talked enough about enough, but it's okay.

Eldar [02:29:33]:
We were poking our head in there, though.

Toliy [02:29:34]:
Yeah, we were poking our head. And we have to make.

Eldar [02:29:36]:
Maybe we have to dedicate to that.

Toliy [02:29:39]:
Dedicate to that. Yeah, more, but, yeah, I think maybe, like, if you're gonna get something out of this conversation or maybe something. Maybe if you are unhappy with the way that your life is going, start paying attention to what's going on.

Eldar [02:30:01]:
That's it. Or were you suffering?

Toliy [02:30:04]:
Yeah. Well, yeah, that was.

Eldar [02:30:06]:
Identify.

Toliy [02:30:07]:
Yeah. Identify. Identify whatever it is. Make a list of everything that you're not happy with or that you feel that you're suffering. Right. And then just start with doing that.

Eldar [02:30:19]:
Yeah.

Toliy [02:30:19]:
There and then.

Eldar [02:30:21]:
Yeah. That's all I got. Cool.

Tommy [02:30:23]:
Cool.

Eldar [02:30:24]:
So what he said is to bring awareness to the parts of your life that you're suffering and that you're not happy with. That's the first step. Agreed, Tom. Build on it. Say so.

Mike [02:30:37]:
On topic, please, if possible.

Eldar [02:30:40]:
But if you're suffering, we also understand.

Mike [02:30:43]:
Something else, like hunger or something needs.

Eldar [02:30:48]:
To release from the back also, like.

Tommy [02:30:51]:
Leave no stone unturned, I think, is one thing.

Eldar [02:30:53]:
Oh, sick.

Tommy [02:30:55]:
Yeah. To, like, please finish a strong ball.

Eldar [02:31:00]:
Because what you said is good.

Tommy [02:31:02]:
Yeah, to, to.

Mike [02:31:04]:
Yeah.

Toliy [02:31:04]:
Yeah. No, I would just end it at that. Because you can only go downhill from here. Right?

Eldar [02:31:10]:
Yeah.

Toliy [02:31:11]:
Yes or no?

Eldar [02:31:11]:
If anybody would like to expand on what Tom just said you want that one to expand, we won't back to you directly. Yeah, we'll call you directly. It's gonna cost you a pretty penny. Yes, that's it. I told you.

Toliy [02:31:21]:
Yeah, cuz he says something good that.

Eldar [02:31:22]:
We all agree with.

Toliy [02:31:23]:
That's it?

Eldar [02:31:24]:
Yeah, that's it.

Toliy [02:31:25]:
Tom, it would only be able to go downhill, guaranteed. Yes, right now.

Eldar [02:31:30]:
And if everybody wants to see that downhill, you have to pay for it. Correct. Because we're not willing to meddle with dirt right now. No, no, not for free.

Mike [02:31:37]:
No.

Eldar [02:31:38]:
That's it, Tom. Thank you. That was fucking profound.

Toliy [02:31:41]:
Yeah.

Eldar [02:31:41]:
Good shit.

Mike [02:31:42]:
That was good.

Toliy [02:31:43]:
Elder.

Eldar [02:31:47]:
You know where you're headed?

Tommy [02:31:48]:
No, I know where I'm heading.

Eldar [02:31:51]:
Yeah, Tom, sounds like if you don't jump, we're gonna jump for you.

Tommy [02:31:57]:
Go get it.

Eldar [02:32:00]:
Yeah, you know. Sorry. Oh, there.

Mike [02:32:04]:
So.

Eldar [02:32:06]:
We said a lot of shit, bro. What do you want me to talk about?

Toliy [02:32:09]:
I don't know, like. Like whatever it comes to you right now is the final words. That's the final words. This is not. Not over with. This is not the last you've seen of the Batman.

Eldar [02:32:19]:
Yeah, I mean, the thing that as, like I said, we're going down the rabbit hole of what actually is the switch that makes you jump and take actions, right? Be convinced of it is the many different reasons that we need to give ourselves. Lots of compelling reasons in order to finally unbuy our bullshit and try something new. Let's just say not even. You might not even find the truth yet. You just want to unbuy yours first, try something new and see if it works.

Mike [02:32:46]:
See if it's good.

Toliy [02:32:47]:
Yeah.

Eldar [02:32:48]:
See if that's something you want to adapt for yourself. Right? Hopefully you're honest with yourself when you do it. But you have to. But you have to have a lot of compelling reasons. Yeah, I just want to know what those reasons are. You know, those stars that have to align for it to actually happen, for us, for the change to be changed and to be sustained. Go ahead.

Tommy [02:33:09]:
I've said, like, I've kind of advocated recently, like one of my own opinions, actually, has been that, like, I guess it might fall under no stern, no stone left unturned, but that always goes.

Mike [02:33:25]:
We're gonna kick you out.

Tommy [02:33:27]:
No, no, I'm not.

Eldar [02:33:28]:
I'm not.

Tommy [02:33:28]:
I'm just saying. I'm saying, like, you might have like flipped over this 1 st. Tom, you're doing. Wait, you have to hear me out.

Toliy [02:33:37]:
Oh, Tom, say something.

Tommy [02:33:38]:
You guys, not on it.

Eldar [02:33:39]:
Okay, hold on.

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