49. Is Wanting Inherently Bad? Unpacking Desire and Suffering - podcast episode cover

49. Is Wanting Inherently Bad? Unpacking Desire and Suffering

Dennis Rox
Dec 23, 2022•2 hr 30 min•Ep. 49
--:--
--:--
Listen in podcast apps:
Metacast
Spotify
Youtube
RSS

Episode description

In episode 49 of "Dennis Rox," hosts Eldar, Toliy, and Mike delve into the fundamental question: "Is Wanting Inherently Bad?" They explore the complexities of desires, discussing how having clear goals and actions rooted in truth can be a path to genuine happiness. Mike emphasizes the importance of differentiating between self-love and past habits, urging listeners to align their wants with their authentic selves. The hosts share personal insights, reflecting on the balance between desires and self-control, and the journey of personal growth and reprogramming mindsets.

The conversation expands to the broader philosophical perspective on desire and suffering, probing whether wanting initiates a "timer of suffering." They examine the instinctive behaviors of animals compared to human choices, questioning if desires contribute to deeper fulfillment or merely prolong dissatisfaction. By reflecting on societal influences and personal experiences, they challenge listeners to reassess their desires, encouraging a life rooted in deliberate actions and continuous self-exploration. Through engaging debates and relatable anecdotes, the episode offers a thoughtful examination of whether wanting things is inherently detrimental to our well-being.

X

Transcript

Eldar [00:00:00]:
On this week's episode, I think that as soon as you want something, even without saying it out loud, just having the thought of wanting it, you start a timer of suffering.

Mike [00:00:07]:
There's a reason why a lot of people sometimes wake up one day and say, yo, fuck this. Fuck my career. Fuck all this. I want to go back to school, and I want to learn something new. And they actually go and pursue something that they're interested in at fucking 40, at 50, at 60.

Toliy [00:00:20]:
And now, I guess now I have a new character that I'm trying to develop. That new character has defined interest as well. Can't be just in the lab all the time.

Mike [00:00:28]:
100%.

Toliy [00:00:29]:
So that's kind of where I'm.

Mike [00:00:30]:
Yo, shout out to D and the listeners.

Toliy [00:00:32]:
Yeah, D. We're about to get out of the philosophy bubble.

Mike [00:00:34]:
People are running amok, and you need to saddle them like a horse. Mike is coming. Where he's going, we don't know yet, but he's definitely coming. Topic is around the question is one thing. Is one thing inherently bad wanting stuff. Things, material things, or maybe qualities. Right. But constantly one stuff.

Mike [00:01:04]:
Mm hmm. Right. And totally posed a very good question, a very good theory, maybe, that, um, I think that in order to solve this one thing or the suffering that come, we can discuss what the suffering that comes with it. Obviously, in order to solve this problem of wanting and not getting what we want out of life is actually to not want. Right. Or bridge the gap between wanting and doing. If we can go from wanting to doing right away, I think we eliminate a very specific suffering. I guess we could talk about that a little bit more.

Mike [00:01:43]:
Does that make sense, what you said? I remember saying, hey, if you want something, start doing it. Because if you. If you really wanted it, you do it. Right. His argument is almost like, look, if you're not automatically starting to do something, you might not actually want it. Like, you might be bullshitting yourself saying that, I want to lose 20 pounds. And, you know, and you haven't. Right.

Mike [00:02:07]:
But you've been perpetually telling your friends, your loved ones, whoever you want to impress or whatever, like you're. You're on this diet, kick whatever. Diet, gym, whatever it is. Right? And if you're constantly just saying, I want, I want, I want, I want. And you don't actually do. Totally saying that if you examine that person, he doesn't actually want it. He's full of shit.

Toliy [00:02:27]:
But that's a good thing.

Mike [00:02:28]:
No, no, for sure. But is that the. Is that the truth of the matter? First, what is what he's saying is.

Toliy [00:02:37]:
True, that if he wants him, you should do it.

Mike [00:02:39]:
No, that you actually don't want it. His argument is like, look, when you say we want to do something.

Toliy [00:02:45]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:02:46]:
But then there is no actual action behind it. You almost telling us, the audience, if we're really examining it, that because you don't have no actions behind your want, you actually don't want it.

Toliy [00:02:57]:
Our thoughts considered actions or not.

Mike [00:03:00]:
Hmm. That's a question to total.

Toliy [00:03:02]:
Like, I want to lose weight. You don't just say, okay, I'm going to go run. I'm gonna go eat right. And then you do it for a month. You're like, wait, I'm eating right? And I'm running, but I'm not losing weight. What the fuck's happening here? Instead, you should be walking and eating more protein. Right?

Eldar [00:03:19]:
Like, I don't understand the, like the question or the example.

Toliy [00:03:22]:
How do you know he's asking?

Mike [00:03:23]:
He's asking, okay, go ahead.

Toliy [00:03:24]:
Yes. How do you know to get from what you want right to action? What are the steps that need to be taken?

Mike [00:03:33]:
He's saying that why isn't thinking of one thing, something right is actually doing something.

Toliy [00:03:38]:
Like, say, think something. You want to lose weight, you're not going to say, okay, tomorrow I'm going to go and I'm going to. I'm going to go play golf to lose weight.

Mike [00:03:46]:
I think he's playing a devil's advocate, saying that, hey, like, he didn't plan this stuff out yet. He needs to make a plan, and that's what he's.

Toliy [00:03:52]:
I'm asking that question.

Mike [00:03:53]:
Yeah, yeah, no, I understand. Exactly.

Toliy [00:03:55]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:03:55]:
I mean, like, the thing is that, like, I guess, like, I'm trying to think how to explain this, but, like, I feel like there's almost, like, a default way we have of, like, wanting things or thinking things that, like, was learned an extremely long time ago. And I think that that default way is always being used. And the reality of what's actually happening versus what you actually feel in the moment is happening, I think are two different things.

Toliy [00:04:29]:
I can. I can argue for both sides. When you wanted that new pair of Jordans, you didn't think about it, right? Or when you wanted that fresh pizza, you didn't think about it, right. You wanted it and you went and solved it. But now when it's coming to losing weight or, you know, I don't know, whatever things, all the things you might want, now you're like, I'm gonna drag my feet. Okay, so why did you not think there. And why do you think here?

Mike [00:04:52]:
Yeah. Why is one pure versus the other one is not pure.

Toliy [00:04:55]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:04:55]:
Well, the.

Mike [00:04:56]:
Yeah, that's a very good question.

Eldar [00:04:58]:
No, but what do you mean, once pure and once not pure?

Mike [00:05:01]:
He's saying that when you want the pizza or you want the Jordans.

Eldar [00:05:03]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:05:04]:
You're gonna get it. Okay. And you have no resistance there.

Toliy [00:05:07]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:05:07]:
Okay. It's like, okay, I want it, I'm going to get it.

Toliy [00:05:10]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:05:10]:
Okay. Right. There's no stalling.

Eldar [00:05:12]:
Mm hmm.

Mike [00:05:12]:
Where versus losing the weight, for example. It's a completely different.

Eldar [00:05:16]:
Well, because you don't actually want to lose weight.

Mike [00:05:18]:
There you go.

Toliy [00:05:19]:
Yeah. Okay.

Eldar [00:05:21]:
Like, you have no good reasons for yourself. That makes sense to you.

Toliy [00:05:25]:
But. But that's maybe for you. What about the person who has the opposite? He's like, yo, actually, I don't want the pizza. I'm gonna drag my feet. I'm gonna go. Go exercise. He does that instantly.

Eldar [00:05:35]:
No, but what do you mean by dragging their feet?

Toliy [00:05:38]:
Well, there's. There's people. There's people. People are different.

Mike [00:05:41]:
Can we.

Toliy [00:05:42]:
Yeah. Agree on that?

Eldar [00:05:43]:
Yeah.

Toliy [00:05:43]:
Dragging your feet means you don't go from one and then to doing. You don't go, yo, I want pizza. And you don't be like, okay, that's it. I get in the car and I go get pizza.

Eldar [00:05:51]:
Okay.

Toliy [00:05:52]:
Right. That's one. Or you know what? I want to lose weight. Let me think about it. Let me work on a plan. Let me sit on it for a minute. That's dragging your feet. And then maybe in a month or maybe in two years, you decide, all right, I'm going to go act on it.

Toliy [00:06:05]:
That's what I mean.

Eldar [00:06:06]:
Okay.

Toliy [00:06:07]:
So it's not like the pizza is easier or not easier. It just depends on the person. Right.

Eldar [00:06:13]:
Well, it depends on what you actually want.

Toliy [00:06:15]:
On what that person wants. Yeah. So you're saying people do. Do only things instantly what they want.

Eldar [00:06:23]:
Well, if you actually want something and you're sure about it, and you have.

Toliy [00:06:27]:
Like, what does it mean to be sure about it?

Eldar [00:06:30]:
Well, like, you. You are acting upon it. Like. Like if you're not acting upon things, then I'm not really sure if you want them or not.

Mike [00:06:39]:
You see, he's saying that if you want the Jordans and you're gonna go get the Jordans right away, there's no waiting, there's no doubts. There's just. You're gonna go and get it.

Toliy [00:06:49]:
Right.

Mike [00:06:49]:
Right.

Toliy [00:06:50]:
But is there things that you can't get instantly? Hmm. But are there things that you cannot get right away.

Mike [00:06:55]:
You. There might be. We could talk about them. However, he's saying that if you're stalling, it signs that you don't actually have pure one. Let's just call it that. Pure.

Toliy [00:07:04]:
So doing pure one automatically goes to action? Goes to action and takes away thinking.

Mike [00:07:09]:
Yeah. Yeah. Where you can have doubts, you can have reasons as to why you shouldn't do certain things. Right, right.

Toliy [00:07:19]:
Yeah. Yeah. Like, let's say I want a new pair of jordans. Or let's say I want a new watch. It's an expensive watch. Yeah. It's. I don't know.

Toliy [00:07:27]:
And I can't get it right now. To go to the store.

Mike [00:07:29]:
Yeah.

Toliy [00:07:30]:
Or have to order online.

Mike [00:07:31]:
Yeah.

Toliy [00:07:32]:
Should I not say, okay, I want this watch, but how do I want to buy it? Maybe I want to find the best deal.

Mike [00:07:37]:
Right.

Toliy [00:07:38]:
Like, that's not considered going towards my goal. Or is that is considered going towards my goal?

Mike [00:07:44]:
Totally.

Eldar [00:07:45]:
Well, I mean, I think that there's.

Toliy [00:07:46]:
Like, what's the difference?

Eldar [00:07:47]:
The idea is that the idea of, like, something being good, I think might be being confused with it, with actually wanting it. Because you just also listed some reasons as to why you may not want it.

Toliy [00:07:58]:
No, I wasn't saying. I was saying to make it look. No, I'm not saying that it's expensive. That's why I don't want it.

Eldar [00:08:05]:
Well, no, like, part of the reason why you're not going out to go buy it right now is because you said it's an expensive purchase.

Toliy [00:08:11]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:08:12]:
Right.

Mike [00:08:12]:
You made reasons. He's saying that you have reasons as to why you don't want it now or that.

Eldar [00:08:16]:
Where you're not sure if you really, for example, want.

Mike [00:08:19]:
You don't want it under this condition.

Eldar [00:08:20]:
Yeah. If it's double the price that it typically is, you may not want it. If it takes six months to get that, you find out you may not want it.

Toliy [00:08:29]:
No. But you still want it, though, at the beginning. No, when you say, I want this watch.

Eldar [00:08:32]:
Well, that's what I'm saying is that.

Toliy [00:08:33]:
It'S 02:00 a.m. and you want to watch. The stores are closed.

Eldar [00:08:36]:
Well, that's what I'm saying.

Toliy [00:08:37]:
Or is the stores closed?

Eldar [00:08:39]:
Well, I mean.

Toliy [00:08:42]:
Now whose fault is it? No, I mean, I have to go find it somewhere. The stores open.

Eldar [00:08:46]:
No, I don't think it's about, like, exactly about, like, in, like, a literal sense, about, like, going to do it right now. But I think that it's just more about, like, what actionable steps are you taking towards getting this or are you more like.

Toliy [00:09:03]:
Considered actionable? I agree with him.

Mike [00:09:05]:
Yeah. Like, like, you know, like if you had the chances to get it, but you didn't wake up and the store now is closed. Right. Because you didn't decide to not get out of your house and go to the store, that's actually on you. Right. So when you come back and say, hey, like, totally, I didn't get the watch, he's gonna say, why? You said you're gonna say, all the store was closed. Well, how come you didn't wake up on time, bro? That you wanted to watch?

Toliy [00:09:27]:
Okay, right.

Mike [00:09:29]:
Sure. He's gonna say that you actually didn't want to watch. You didn't want it hot enough to wake up at seven in the morning, you know?

Toliy [00:09:35]:
Right. But what if I just said, you know what, right now I just decided that I want to watch. Can I decide right now? Like, you know what, it's ten a 10:00 p.m. i want to buy a watch.

Mike [00:09:46]:
No problem, you can have it. It's just like, if you're bound by circumstances that you can't actually get it, that's fine.

Toliy [00:09:51]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:09:52]:
However, up in the morning, if tomorrow you don't have. If tomorrow you wake up and you don't actually get it, and then you meet totally for dinner and he's gonna say, hey, bro, you said you wanted to watch.

Toliy [00:10:01]:
No, I agree with that.

Mike [00:10:03]:
What's up?

Toliy [00:10:04]:
I agree with that.

Mike [00:10:04]:
You didn't get to watch.

Toliy [00:10:05]:
But what do you guys consider actionable steps? Cause you said that.

Mike [00:10:10]:
I think it's those things that's in your power, right. To be able to execute on the want that you actually want within a reason. Within reason to get it.

Toliy [00:10:20]:
Wouldn't it be unreasonable as a person? Let's say I wanna watch. It's expensive. And I would like to find out if there's way to what, finance it. There's ways to get a discount on it. Yeah. Ship it to a different state to save on time.

Eldar [00:10:33]:
Would it not be you don't technically want the watch?

Toliy [00:10:34]:
Yeah, why not?

Eldar [00:10:36]:
Well, because you have many contingencies. Yeah, that's aware.

Mike [00:10:38]:
And you want the watch, but you also want something else with it. So what you need to say is, you need to say is, hey, I.

Eldar [00:10:45]:
Want to watch for a good deal. And I can get in a timely fashion in this color. And it fits around my wrist and it feels good.

Mike [00:10:51]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:10:51]:
Like those are all in all the.

Toliy [00:10:53]:
I didn't say that.

Eldar [00:10:54]:
Well, that's what I'm saying is that. Then you would. Then you're saying that you don't want to watch because you want them only with contingency.

Toliy [00:11:01]:
Like, I don't.

Mike [00:11:02]:
You know, you're not understanding that. It's very important in the structure of wording that you're saying that's what you're fighting. Yeah, he's saying that because of the fact that you're not acting upon. Right. That which is actually what is considered action.

Toliy [00:11:14]:
Then tell me.

Eldar [00:11:14]:
Well, no, no, that. That's not the confusion. The confusion here is that he says.

Mike [00:11:19]:
He wants to watch, right?

Eldar [00:11:19]:
He says he wants to watch, but like, that's a very simple.

Mike [00:11:22]:
Yes, correct.

Eldar [00:11:24]:
Now, now, like I could say, like.

Mike [00:11:26]:
I want the watch, but I want to watch.

Eldar [00:11:28]:
I could say that I want. I want a Rolex of yacht master, for example. Right? And when I'm saying this, want, my idea is that, okay, this is a $15,000 watch, right? That's what I'm thinking of now. I go online and I check. Oh, shit.

Toliy [00:11:44]:
No, no. Like, but again, you're painting a scenario.

Eldar [00:11:47]:
Because you're painting the scenario.

Toliy [00:11:49]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:11:50]:
What else is there? That you agree.

Toliy [00:11:51]:
Yeah, I agree with that.

Mike [00:11:53]:
But you're not expressing it the right way.

Eldar [00:11:55]:
Yeah. Then you don't want. Just want the watch.

Toliy [00:11:57]:
Who said that? We're saying I want this watch?

Mike [00:11:59]:
You were saying.

Toliy [00:12:00]:
No, but who said that I'm. When I say I want this watch, that I don't want it the way I want.

Eldar [00:12:03]:
You said that.

Mike [00:12:04]:
You said that.

Eldar [00:12:04]:
Cuz you're saying all these different contingencies are showing that you don't actually want the watch. Only one.

Mike [00:12:10]:
The watch.

Toliy [00:12:10]:
What?

Mike [00:12:10]:
You want the watch plus this. Only if this plus this.

Toliy [00:12:14]:
But those are also once correct.

Mike [00:12:16]:
But you're not saying it that way. That's the problem. You trap yourself in a situation where it's like, hey, like, sure, I want to buy a house.

Toliy [00:12:23]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:12:24]:
You know what I mean? I want to do this, but, you.

Eldar [00:12:26]:
Know, but interest rates are 30%. Yeah, well, no, I want to buy a house, but only if interest rates are under 5%.

Mike [00:12:32]:
And that is a problem a lot of times we find ourselves in where. Because of the fact that we just say a very general statement, right. We pigeonhole ourselves into a suffering situation, you understand? And then we have to work those things out in our heads until we get it. It has to be on our terms. Or what are the.

Eldar [00:12:49]:
You're the one who's expressing that you're first thing that you want to watch.

Mike [00:12:52]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:12:53]:
And then you start listing things. Contingencies.

Mike [00:12:55]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:12:56]:
That you want it. Yeah. How you want it. What would need to happen, what you're looking for. Exactly. But you're not saying that off the.

Mike [00:13:02]:
Bat, hiding behind a general statement, which a lot of people do, and that's the pro. I think that's. That's. That's where the problem lies. He's saying that this. We're not actually expressing ourselves properly here. I want a lot of things, but I want them at a discount. You know what I'm saying? That's how I am.

Toliy [00:13:18]:
Yeah. I'm not sure.

Mike [00:13:20]:
You're not sure?

Toliy [00:13:21]:
I'm not sure. Yeah. Just because I want, like, does not mean if I want to watch in civic way does not mean I don't want to watch. I can't. Like, I'm not able to jump over that.

Mike [00:13:30]:
Yeah, but the thing is, it's not no longer just a watch. It's a watch with things around it.

Toliy [00:13:34]:
That doesn't change the fact that I still want to watch, though.

Mike [00:13:37]:
Yeah, but you want to watch, and you're on your terms.

Eldar [00:13:40]:
It's.

Toliy [00:13:40]:
It's like saying, I want to want the watch. Do I want the botch or no, I want to watch with contingencies. Do I still want the watch? I don't want the watch. I just want the contingencies.

Mike [00:13:48]:
No, no, because you can't just say you want if it's your contingencies and if the watch never, never aligns.

Toliy [00:13:55]:
No, no, you don't want. I didn't say if I'm not gonna be able to get these things.

Mike [00:13:59]:
Oh, you. You saying that you can get them?

Toliy [00:14:01]:
I mean, I've bought a watch before, and the things I mentioned. Yeah, I know. They exist. I can finance them. I can get a discount, and I can ship it to New York to save on tax.

Eldar [00:14:10]:
Yeah, no, I know, but it's a simpleness of, like, the speech that's being said. Right. That causes confusion for the mind as to what you actually want and don't want.

Toliy [00:14:22]:
Yeah, but the confusion is not on my part. I didn't say, yo, I want.

Eldar [00:14:26]:
No, the confusion is in the way that, that you're speaking because you're.

Toliy [00:14:29]:
What did I say about the fact.

Eldar [00:14:30]:
That I said that you want to watch?

Toliy [00:14:32]:
Yeah, what's. What's wrong with that?

Eldar [00:14:33]:
Because then afterwards, you started listening.

Toliy [00:14:36]:
No, no. How about this? I want the watch.

Eldar [00:14:39]:
Okay, that's it then.

Toliy [00:14:40]:
That's it?

Mike [00:14:41]:
Yeah.

Toliy [00:14:41]:
How long in your eyes, after I made that statement, do I have to get the watch?

Eldar [00:14:45]:
Well, I mean that I say that.

Toliy [00:14:47]:
I want the watch and I will get it today?

Eldar [00:14:49]:
Well, I mean, it's based on whatever terms, I guess, like, you're outlining and whatever actionable steps.

Toliy [00:14:54]:
I haven't outlined anything.

Mike [00:14:56]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:14:56]:
Well, then you just have a good idea as to watch. I don't know why you actually want it. Like, it just sounds like a good idea.

Mike [00:15:02]:
Yeah. Then you don't have a reasons really, behind as to, like, why do you actually want it and how you want.

Toliy [00:15:07]:
Are we discussing the reasons why I want the watch, or we're discussing that I want. I said I want the watch. That's all.

Eldar [00:15:12]:
No, we're discussing that the way that the speech is being used is incorrect.

Toliy [00:15:15]:
What's wrong with me saying that I want. I want to watch?

Eldar [00:15:17]:
Well, I mean, like that. Like, are you saying, like, objectively, what. What is wrong with that?

Toliy [00:15:21]:
Or whatever the conversation. I'm gonna make a statement right now. I want to watch.

Mike [00:15:24]:
Yeah. If the conversation stops right there.

Toliy [00:15:28]:
That's it.

Mike [00:15:28]:
That's it. Right. But however, the conversation about wanting to watch carries through the next steps, doesn't it?

Toliy [00:15:35]:
What is the timeline that you guys know?

Mike [00:15:37]:
There's no timeline. There's, there's a timeline of you getting a watch.

Toliy [00:15:40]:
Sure.

Mike [00:15:41]:
Correct.

Toliy [00:15:41]:
Hundred.

Mike [00:15:41]:
You want the watch?

Toliy [00:15:42]:
Yes.

Mike [00:15:43]:
You know, I'm saying the timeline is not on us. It's not the burden of ours to define the timeline of how you're gonna get the watch. You know, I'm saying what's gonna happen is if you say, I want to watch. Right. But you never get it. You dragging out a period of time that's gonna. Not gonna line up with what you actually saying.

Toliy [00:16:06]:
I say to you guys, yeah, I want the watch. And then certainly I'm like, I want to get it by 2024. And I haven't said that to you guys.

Mike [00:16:12]:
Mm hmm.

Toliy [00:16:13]:
Whose burden of proof is it on? Is it on you?

Mike [00:16:16]:
On you?

Toliy [00:16:16]:
I have.

Eldar [00:16:17]:
You're the one suffering.

Mike [00:16:18]:
You're the one who has to suffer.

Toliy [00:16:19]:
No, no, I'm. I said, y'all want this watch, and I'm gonna get it in 2024.

Mike [00:16:23]:
Mm hmm.

Toliy [00:16:23]:
To myself, I said, I'm gonna get it by 2024.

Mike [00:16:26]:
Okay.

Toliy [00:16:26]:
And that's it.

Mike [00:16:27]:
Sure. There's no conversation here.

Toliy [00:16:29]:
Yeah, but. But, no, there is, because is it enough. Is it fast enough that for the way you guys are discussing the want.

Mike [00:16:37]:
We'Re not, we're not adding a timeline to it.

Eldar [00:16:40]:
The timelines are self imposed, so.

Toliy [00:16:42]:
Okay. The timelines itself imposed.

Eldar [00:16:45]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:16:45]:
We're not trying to set a timeline.

Eldar [00:16:47]:
Yeah. That's why when you first said, I want to watch, okay, that. That's a statement that makes sense, that there's no argument.

Mike [00:16:54]:
You put the clock on yourself.

Eldar [00:16:55]:
But then when. When you say, I want to watch, but I need to find a good deal, and I need to do x, x, y, and z. Now you no longer want to watch. Technically, in just that pure form. Now you want to watch. Plus, you want these other things.

Toliy [00:17:09]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:17:10]:
So you. It's no longer accurate at that point that you want to watch.

Toliy [00:17:16]:
Yeah. No, I don't understand it.

Mike [00:17:18]:
I'm not sure if you're understanding then, that the fact that how you want the watch is actually a thing that is important to include when you're saying that I want the watch. Like, those are important things. I want the watch. I want this watch, but I don't want it for this price. For example, I want it for 20% off. Therefore, I'm gonna be okay with waiting a year for it to drop 20%. You know what I'm saying? So then what you need to say is, like, I want this watch, but I know I can't get it right now. Mm hmm.

Mike [00:17:48]:
Because I'm waiting for a 20% off deal, which comes in a year. Yeah.

Eldar [00:17:51]:
Or I want the watch, but only I'm supposed to say.

Toliy [00:17:54]:
I'm supposed to say this to myself when I make the statement.

Mike [00:17:56]:
You're not supposed to do anything. Right. However, I think that the way we. Why are we discussing this in the first place? I think a lot of people find themselves to suffer from just wanting shit and not really understanding how they.

Eldar [00:18:08]:
Well, because it's very simple speech. Like, saying, like, I want to fall in love.

Mike [00:18:12]:
It's a very general.

Eldar [00:18:13]:
That's like, a very simple little. What was that? Like, five to seven words, like line. Right? And then, like, there's a thought that gets implanted. Like, implanted of, like, okay, this is what you want. And then you go years and years and years with, like, now you're convinced that, like, this is what you want, but, like, you never actually. Like, it's. It's not really, like. Like a.

Eldar [00:18:36]:
Like a complete thought, because then you start finding out certain things, right? And then you find out from beginning that you actually did not want to fall in love or that, like, you do not even understand what love is. So how could you want something that you don't understand to begin with?

Toliy [00:18:50]:
But it sounds like we're having the discussion is.

Mike [00:18:53]:
Is like we're trying to find out whether or not we actually suffer from the fact that when we make these statements, these general statements, and subject them.

Toliy [00:19:02]:
Towards us, how will we know without knowing the individual's internal thoughts?

Eldar [00:19:08]:
Well, no, we're trying to find out for ourselves.

Mike [00:19:11]:
Yeah, we're trying to find out.

Eldar [00:19:12]:
I'm not trying to find out for you. I'm trying to find out. Yeah, yeah.

Mike [00:19:13]:
I don't care what the fuck you want to do. You know what I'm saying? At the end of the day, you could suffer as much as you want what you want and how you want it. That doesn't bother me. You know what I'm saying? How. However, when I want some things, and if I'm chasing the truck, right, the ups truck for it, I'm suffering. There's a suffering period. You know what I'm saying? I'd like to find out why the fuck I'm suffering because of it and what am I not doing, right? You know what I'm saying? Because as soon as I say, hey, I want this thing all of a sudden, right? A lot of things come to mind. Like if I just want it, go get it, however, then I subject myself to like, yeah, but I don't want it for this price.

Mike [00:19:47]:
So what I need to do now, right? I need to go and do research on coupons. I have to do research on timing, when is the next holiday season coming up, and all this other shit where I can get it. You know what I mean? So I'm subjecting myself to a very specific stress period that is holding me away from actually probably harvesting the enjoyment of that want in the first place. You know what I'm saying?

Toliy [00:20:10]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:20:11]:
You're no longer. You're no longer in the wanting of the thing period. You know what I'm saying? Like, hey, I want this thing. Go get it. Enjoy the thing. Which, what's happening is that now you're looking for deals. I find this. This happens to me all the time.

Mike [00:20:25]:
All the time, right? Instead of. Instead of buying the thing for the. For the full price, I'm gonna go and do a whole bunch of research, drive myself crazy to save $10, $20, $30, whatever. And I'm no longer in the process of actually what I actually wanted in the first place. I'm in a process of winning now, a deal. It's a different thing completely, which is attached to the original want of a watch, of a lawnmower, whatever it is. A tool, some kind of shit. Yeah, I think, and I think he's challenging us just to think that we actually are suffering from.

Mike [00:21:03]:
From that phenomenon.

Eldar [00:21:05]:
I think it's just like, it's like a confusion of speech. It's like, don't think this problem would exist if like, everything that individual wants, they're able to execute on and get.

Mike [00:21:15]:
Yeah, right.

Eldar [00:21:16]:
And that doesn't have to be like, in 1 second, because some things take time, right. But it's just a matter of. There's a constant problem of having, you know, like, either out loud, like statements or in the mind thoughts.

Mike [00:21:31]:
A lot of times, people confusing. Yeah. A lot of times people live in ingrained those ideas of, want to start a business? It's a good idea. Right. I want to have my own business. I want to sell shoes.

Eldar [00:21:40]:
Well, my example today, you know, someone calls it like, I reach out to somebody.

Mike [00:21:45]:
Oh, yeah.

Eldar [00:21:46]:
And they, they say, like, yeah, I'm looking to start, like, they're obviously wanting, like, you know, pricing on what we do, right? And they, they tell me, yeah, I want to start a business. I'm like, okay, no, no, they say, I'm starting a business. Okay, what kind of business? They say an online business. Okay, well, what kind of online business? I'm not sure yet.

Mike [00:22:16]:
Yeah, right.

Eldar [00:22:17]:
But here they are filling out forms of vendors trying to, like, get pricing on things. Like, there's nothing ironed out here. Like, what do they want here? What do they actually want? They, like, like it just like, I think they prove to themselves that, like, they want the idea of maybe opening up, like, a bank account or maybe, like, I don't know, like, being. The idea of being your own boss and stuff like that. But then what happens that all these things get confused and saying that I want to open a business because, like, they're convinced that, like, saying that line and having that desire comes with you getting all these different things.

Toliy [00:22:54]:
So when you say that I want something and then you figure out the right way to do it, it automatically takes away that you don't want it anymore.

Mike [00:23:01]:
No, it actually makes you do it. You got it wrong. You don't go into the fact that you remove that what you want, you actually say and do the steps of what you actually want.

Toliy [00:23:15]:
But you guys just said to me that everything that goes after is all contingencies.

Mike [00:23:20]:
A lot of the times, unfortunately, we don't like the contingencies. We don't fuck with the contingencies. If we start talking about contingencies behind what the wants are business. Okay, if you want to start a business, do you want to incorporate an llc? Do you want to hire people? Do you want to manage people. Do you want to buy a building? Do you want to do marketing? Right?

Eldar [00:23:42]:
Are you willing to learn?

Mike [00:23:43]:
Are you willing to learn? Are you willing to go network? Right. Saying starting a business is one thing, but saying now, saying all these things that I just threw at you, you like going through your own personality traits and you're like, wait a sec. You know what? Yeah. I don't like hiring people. I don't like talking to people. I don't want to stand in front of people on network. Huh. If that's part of business, do I really fucking want it? Yeah, you have to challenge yourself in that way.

Mike [00:24:07]:
A lot of people find themselves in grain deals, thinking of wanting things and not really pursuing that which is actually behind the fucking thing. Yeah.

Eldar [00:24:15]:
Or, like, examining, what do you actually want? Like, yeah, like, what do you actually want?

Toliy [00:24:19]:
Like, that's before that, though. Look, figure out why you actually want what you want.

Eldar [00:24:26]:
Well, I think that that's, I think probably most of the time, if you're somebody that gets the opportunity to do that, I'd probably argue that most of the time that happens after, like, you first get a want and then you. Some people might see if they actually want something. I don't think they get into the form of debating first whether they want something and then they make the same I think they make the same at first, and then they kind of swirl or swirl around if. If they're, I mean, if they have some, some baseline.

Mike [00:24:56]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:24:57]:
You know, but, but I think that the mistake happens in using very simple speech to talk about something that has a lot of, like, facets in it and has, like, a lot of different variables in it and then. Right. And then thinking about it in these simple ways, but then they prove to themselves that these things that they're talking about wanting, that they don't actually want them.

Mike [00:25:23]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:25:23]:
So it's like, you want to watch. Okay. It's up to you as to, like, what levels of reflection or, like, challenging do you have in this process? Like, if you're interested in actually verifying whether you want this watch? Like, if, like, if somebody were to, like, if my job was to interrogate you and figure out why. Right. Like, I would need to ask questions like, why do you want this watch? What's it for? Right. And, like, if you're not able to provide concrete answers or do or tell me concrete things, you might find that you may not want the watch. Or maybe let's just say you want the watch because, like, it's going to get you girls. You might say, right.

Eldar [00:26:05]:
We might be able to disprove the theory completely that actually this watch is not the right watch to do that. Right. There might be a better watch, or you could just get a fake watch for. For that if you're talking about it. Right. Or maybe like, you know, you want nice shoes because you want to play basketball well, but you have two left feet. Like, there's no shoes that are going to help you. Right.

Eldar [00:26:29]:
So it's like, there's a lot of these wants and desires. Because the want is, I would say probably it's always tied with some kind of outcome. And I think, like, inherently wants and outcomes are very simple, like terms. Like, they're very simple lines to say, but there's a lot of complications behind them that people don't think about. Yes, but it's very, very, very easy to obtain more desires. Like, if I just said that, like, going forward, your job is just a one. Shit like that. It's like, I mean, that's unlimited faucet, right? So the problem comes is when you're using very simple speech to want things and then, like, you take that on yourself.

Eldar [00:27:15]:
I think that as soon as you want something, even without saying it out loud, just having the thought of wanting it, you start a timer of suffering. Right there, the spot.

Mike [00:27:24]:
Wow.

Eldar [00:27:25]:
You know?

Mike [00:27:26]:
Wow. Yo, I'm gonna fucking write that down. Wow. You said say that again.

Eldar [00:27:37]:
The moment you have a thought that you want, like, the moment you want something, you start a timer of suffering.

Mike [00:27:48]:
It's true. That's why I'm writing it down.

Toliy [00:27:51]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:27:51]:
Because it fucking rang my bells. Yeah. Wow. Yeah.

Eldar [00:27:55]:
Cuz, like, when, as soon as you say that you want something, you are now subjecting.

Mike [00:28:00]:
Yes.

Eldar [00:28:00]:
Yourself to, like, get attached, to do something. Right. And.

Mike [00:28:05]:
And most of the time you don't know the scope of service. Yeah.

Eldar [00:28:07]:
And you don't even know if you want things to begin with, but you hear you are wanting shit and you could live out years of your life, decades of going towards something. And then, like, you come towards the end of it, you might even have it in your hands and you're just like, well, this is not it, you know?

Mike [00:28:24]:
Why'd you put most of the world into that bucket? Just. That's bad, bro.

Eldar [00:28:30]:
Including myself, you know?

Mike [00:28:31]:
No, 100%.

Toliy [00:28:33]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:28:33]:
I mean, like, that's bad. Yeah. Yeah. I just think that, like, it's a confusion of, like, how things work and then it's like a confusion of speech.

Mike [00:28:41]:
The liberation. The liberation that comes with structuring the want and then the general want and then explaining what actually entails in it is monumental. I think you. That's you being honest with yourself. So then you don't suffer what he's talking about. You don't suffer pressure. You don't suffer patience. You need to be patient.

Mike [00:29:06]:
You don't suffer any restraints, because you've outlined a thing very thoroughly for yourself as to say, okay, cool. If these things don't line up, ain't gonna come true. And I'm okay with that. There's no expectation. You know what I'm saying? It's a liberation. It's a, you know, you wanting to. You wanted to date, right? And then you realize, I don't want to date. Why?

Toliy [00:29:29]:
I got to know more. The scope of services.

Mike [00:29:31]:
Yeah. That form that you used to know as dating is. No, you no longer fuck with that form. That's why the challenge was that. Remember when we just speaking about you dating girls and stuff like that, the ones that you attracted. The challenge was whether or not you'll be attracted to those same girls with a knowledge, the body of knowledge that you will receive and understand. Now, jury's still out on that, but it's already. You're showing signs that, like, look, I ain't trying to get old anymore.

Mike [00:29:58]:
You're not trying to be that guy. Why? You know something. You know something ahead. You understand the scope of service, and you're like, wait a second. I don't want to be that guy. That's a change of character completely. And I'm not sure if that character can be attracted to the same character. I just.

Mike [00:30:15]:
To me, it's. It doesn't work. You know what I'm saying?

Toliy [00:30:20]:
Yeah, no, I understand.

Mike [00:30:22]:
So there's a lot of things behind that. Simple, I want. And unfortunately, a lot of people, like you said, subject themselves to the general I want and then live out a very specific life which is stripped from free will. No, I mean, why do I say that? Fuck that. It's. I mean, it's meant to be, bro. Like, there's not unfortunate, unfortunate thing about it. If you do this, then it's this.

Mike [00:30:48]:
If you decided to say a general statement like, I want to start a business, and then you're suffering around that whole thing, that whole concept. I mean, uh, you were supposed to. You know what I'm saying? I mean, life is just like, there is no. Yeah, there's no injustice in the way things play out, you know? Mm hmm. Which is very interesting. So is one thing inherently bad? Is one thing the way we do today in society? Most generally speaking, that's what I was saying.

Eldar [00:31:26]:
I'm not sure if it's inherently bad, but I just feel that, like, I, like, the act of wanting is such, like, a. Like, a simple thing, and it's something that we probably, like, learned a long, long time ago. Right, but we've proven to ourselves that we want plenty of things. Or we say, yeah, we can convince ourselves, or, like, we think we want all these different things.

Mike [00:31:51]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:31:52]:
But then what happens is that we just played, like, years and years of self, so suffering only. Like. Like, how does that make sense? How do you want something but then, like, just, like, actually. No, no.

Mike [00:32:04]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:32:04]:
Like, how do you actually want something, right. Like, and then play out years and years of suffering throughout the whole process and either and most likely not getting.

Mike [00:32:20]:
Just to find out that you. This ain't what you want because you are under the impression that the one that you were gonna get was gonna give you. Yeah.

Eldar [00:32:27]:
It's always. Yeah. It's always attached to, like, a.

Mike [00:32:30]:
Like, an outcome result. Yeah.

Eldar [00:32:32]:
You know, but the thing is that both things, like, the tricky part is that both things seem so simple and feel so simple when, like, the idea comes and, like, the desire is made. Like, it's just so simple. Like, I want to fall in love. And I mean, like, who doesn't understand that? Like, what. What language is that understood in?

Mike [00:32:54]:
Like, everybody's gonna say, yo, you know, preach.

Eldar [00:32:56]:
Yeah, no, no. Like, I want this, right? Like, even, like, a. Like, a simple sentence. Like, you know, I want to be happy. Like, I mean, like, it's such a simple sentence, and then it's like a. And then it sounds like such a simple outcome, just, like, you know, a good life, this, this and that. And then you start, like, chasing these different things that might have to do with those things. And then, like, you.

Eldar [00:33:24]:
You definitely find out that, like, they're either accomplishing that or not.

Mike [00:33:29]:
I think a lot of times people will find out. If you have pests, like, totally around you, you meant something completely, completely different than what you said. You don't actually want to be happy. You know what I'm saying? You go around people and telling people, no, you don't have. You don't want to actually be happy. What the fuck? What do you mean? Why not clearly show anybody actions, prove it wrong.

Eldar [00:33:50]:
Yeah, I just feel that, like, this exists because there's a disconnect between, like, wanting, doing, and then getting the right things that actually, like, enhance your life. You know? Like, that. That's, like, the issue here is that, like, the wants don't always translate into doing. And then even if you can connect the two, why is it so often that, like, it's not what you expected or it doesn't do what you first intended it to do? Because, like, there's like, a.

Mike [00:34:28]:
Why are we so good at wanting shit like that? Like, we just want the end results. Like, why are we so attracted to wanting to end results? Like, want to be an astronaut or a fucking firefighter? You know, when you little. Little kid.

Eldar [00:34:39]:
Because the. I mean, I think the idea about it is that, like, in that moment of, like, what you're picturing, there's no suffering that exists.

Mike [00:34:50]:
Mmm. You only see the hero. You see the hero that's putting out the fire and taking the cats and the birds out of the building, right? You see the astronaut. Astronaut that's going to space and checking out the moon or whatever it is, right. You don't see that the. You know, the firefighter has to go through gruesome training. The astronaut has to go through gruesome g force training, right. That is very hard and difficult.

Mike [00:35:13]:
And you, like, you don't want to do that, right? But you're like, okay, cool. Let's throw you into the fire right now and be okay with you burning and smelling, inhaling smoke or seeing dead people. Wait, wait a second. Wait. I'm not sure if I can stomach die, yo. You know what I mean? Like, I can't see blood.

Eldar [00:35:28]:
Yeah, they're like, the feeling hero. The feeling that, like, individuals, I think, just get. Just like humans in general get. Is that, like, there's no. There's no suffering in the end result that they're picturing of that? Why? Well, because, like, I think a desire is wanted to. I mean, probably a lot of times to alleviate suffering.

Mike [00:35:51]:
Oh, wow. Okay, so now you're going somewhere else. You're saying that the want in the first place is being born is because you're suffering. You see what he's saying?

Toliy [00:36:01]:
No, yeah, I get it.

Mike [00:36:02]:
He's saying that reason you want to want that watch in the first place is because you're suffering.

Toliy [00:36:05]:
You're not happy in the first place.

Eldar [00:36:08]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:36:09]:
Damn, yo, wherever the fucking listener is, yo, if they're listening, yo, it's over for you. You gotta close up shop and go take a fucking two week hot shower.

Eldar [00:36:19]:
Yeah, like, I'm not sure. Like. Like, probably in actuality of being alive, like, there's probably an extremely.

Mike [00:36:29]:
Like, I mean.

Eldar [00:36:30]:
I mean, I'm guessing. I'm not even sure if there's an extremely. Like, if there's an extremely pure form where there's no suffering that exists. Right, right. I don't know. Like, babies cry, right?

Mike [00:36:44]:
Mm hmm.

Eldar [00:36:45]:
What, they're having fun during that time. So it's like, I'm not even sure. Like. Yeah. It might be that, like, when life, like, when life gets generated, it's automatically subjected to suffering. And the point of life is to not suffer.

Mike [00:37:04]:
That's Buddhist Buddha, SATA Buddha said that we're inherently subjective. Suffering. Four noble truths lead us to liberation. Yeah.

Eldar [00:37:19]:
Like, I'm not sure if there's that pure form of, like, you know, kid, that's just like a. Not subjected to suffering. You think Archie's happy when he gets left home alone?

Toliy [00:37:28]:
No, but he's not choosing to.

Eldar [00:37:32]:
But he's still suffering.

Toliy [00:37:34]:
Yeah. Because the choices of other people, though.

Mike [00:37:37]:
Yeah. But then he's subjected to a prison.

Toliy [00:37:39]:
Hmm.

Mike [00:37:40]:
Yeah. He's subjected to a prison.

Toliy [00:37:43]:
Yeah. Yes.

Mike [00:37:44]:
Which is not his. At the inherent choice. Right. If he had the choice, he'll be at the hip.

Toliy [00:37:50]:
Mm hmm. Yeah.

Mike [00:37:51]:
But is it.

Toliy [00:37:51]:
Is this. Archie had a choice to be born.

Mike [00:37:56]:
Mmm. That's a different question.

Toliy [00:37:57]:
Is the kid choose to be born or no?

Eldar [00:38:00]:
I mean, like, even if we say no, he's not. It doesn't change the fact that he's not subjected to suffering.

Mike [00:38:08]:
Archie's a dog. The listener.

Toliy [00:38:11]:
Yeah. The thing is, because the kid is born and the parents chose to have a kid, and then they continue to choose to subject him to their beliefs. I'm not sure if you. If you were allowed a kid to just be a kid from day one, whatever in nature the way it was, you would have to study animals to see how they are right in their. In their element without wanting anything. And then. Then maybe we can say that.

Mike [00:38:36]:
See, again, we go into the question about what is it that they actually want? Right. Instinctually, squirrels collect nuts.

Toliy [00:38:44]:
Mm hmm.

Mike [00:38:45]:
Right. And how much nuts do they have to collect? They pre programmed. Right. To collect certain amount of nuts, store those nuts to make sure that they survived. I've not seen a squirrel on jewelry stuff.

Eldar [00:39:00]:
But you have seen a rat.

Mike [00:39:06]:
Yeah. You know.

Toliy [00:39:08]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:39:09]:
Not seen one there.

Toliy [00:39:10]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:39:10]:
I've seen the squirrel collecting nuts.

Toliy [00:39:12]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:39:12]:
They bury them in the backyard.

Toliy [00:39:13]:
Mm hmm.

Mike [00:39:14]:
You know what I'm saying?

Toliy [00:39:15]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:39:16]:
And doing what it does.

Toliy [00:39:18]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:39:18]:
Right. You're talking about following an instinct that's been ingrained in you that you were born with.

Toliy [00:39:23]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:39:24]:
Humans, on the other hand. Right. It's a very different species. You got a choice in the matter yeah. We don't, we don't collect to sustain. We clearly, history, we show that we collect for abundance.

Toliy [00:39:42]:
But is that because that's what we're.

Mike [00:39:43]:
Taught, it doesn't matter. Right. I'm not saying what I'm saying. I'm challenging the fact that the teaching part, nature versus nurture part. Right. With squirrels naturally, through nature.

Eldar [00:39:55]:
Yeah. But seeing is that, like, for example, if you were able to create a perfect climate, like climate and a perfect environment, for example, and you were to just leave squirrels there and breed them. Right. And, like, their purpose.

Toliy [00:40:13]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:40:13]:
They would have a huge field. Right. And they would just, and they would have, you know, nut trees. Right. And they would collect these nuts and still bury them. Right. Is it in their capabilities or in their DNA or in their purpose to evolve or to advance?

Mike [00:40:34]:
I would say, yeah. Why survive all the fittest?

Toliy [00:40:38]:
No, because they survive in nature. They survive in areas not. That's not nature. So they have to evolve. Right.

Eldar [00:40:46]:
Well, no, I'm saying that, like.

Mike [00:40:48]:
Oh, you're saying that you subjected them to a good life.

Toliy [00:40:51]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:40:51]:
Which they don't have to. They won't evolve. No, I won't.

Eldar [00:40:55]:
They'll just be in a loop.

Mike [00:40:56]:
Correct.

Toliy [00:40:56]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:40:58]:
I don't know if it's true, but I guess, like, the, like, the separation, I think that, I mean, like, what, what I heard, I guess, is, like, the separation of, like, the human kind compared to, like, you know, neanderthals and different things like that is like the ability to. To have imagination.

Mike [00:41:17]:
Mm hmm. Yeah.

Eldar [00:41:18]:
And a lot of times, imagination is thinking about things that are, like, past you, that are not existing yet.

Mike [00:41:25]:
Right.

Eldar [00:41:25]:
Or, like, stuff like that.

Mike [00:41:27]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:41:27]:
So I'm not sure if you put humans in that kind of environment, if they'll be in that loop, or will there be eventual desire for advancements? I don't know if that's, like, that might be inherent in mankind compared to, like, a squirrel might be will maybe never able to get out of the loop.

Toliy [00:41:46]:
But the imagination, I'm not sure if that's a two sided thing where it could be a gift or it could be a curse. Right. Your imagination allows you to come up with things that you think you want or desire.

Eldar [00:41:55]:
No, the imagination, I think, is a huge catalyst for how suffering was created for humans.

Toliy [00:42:02]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:42:04]:
Like, I think that that might be, like, the seed of it, you know, because imagination then, like. Yeah, like, imagination and the way that our minds are, I think, like, it creates an environment for wanting, which then puts it subjects you to suffering.

Toliy [00:42:24]:
So. Yeah, it's interesting to think that if you believe in God, that he made the animals, right, in a way, perfect.

Mike [00:42:35]:
Right.

Toliy [00:42:36]:
Or where they are in tune with nature and then harmonious. And then he. And then he made us to be born in suffering, into suffering, to be imperfect. I'm not sure, like, how that sits with you guys.

Mike [00:42:47]:
Yeah. But also, like, you know, is it suffering? What if we're following the great design and as we can think here and reason through.

Toliy [00:43:05]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:43:05]:
We quickly find out that everything that's happening is happening for a reason.

Toliy [00:43:12]:
That's for the majority of people, or.

Mike [00:43:15]:
No, I think it's for everybody.

Toliy [00:43:17]:
Everybody thinks.

Mike [00:43:18]:
Everybody. No, no, I think it's. We're subjected to that for everybody. Whether or not they realize it's a different story.

Toliy [00:43:24]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:43:25]:
Okay, so because of that, I think that there is no suffering. Right? There's no. There's no extra something in, like, different or special between human and animals. You know what I'm saying? The design is the design, and we're following that design. You know what I mean? Sure. Within that design, if you know the choices we make and stuff, we hurt us when we feel pain, suffering, and all this other stuff. Right. But we're also following the design still.

Mike [00:44:03]:
The reason why we feel pain is because we're following the design. If you're feeling pain, you ought to feel pain because of the design that was created. This is not something outside of the bubble that's happening. This is exactly how it's supposed to be when you find out. Right? Like you found out, you said, hey, wait a second, I don't want to go dating anymore. Why not, Mike? Well, I don't want to be controlled by girls anymore. Because in the form that I was being before I was controlled, I was manipulated, I was taken advantage of, and it didn't feel good. Like, wait a second, that design right there doesn't work for me anymore.

Mike [00:44:37]:
I have evolved. Before you were following the design, it was perfectly normal as a natural phenomenon. And now that you're not following that trajectory, it's because you're following the design again that you evolved, and it's impossible to follow that design.

Toliy [00:44:58]:
So what's the natural design? The way nature intended? Is there one? Or is it nature intended to have a choice? So if we have a choice, why don't the animals have a choice? Or do they have a choice?

Mike [00:45:12]:
See, the thing is, I think animals are in lions.

Toliy [00:45:16]:
Yeah, again, so Mister G made us double yobo and the animals.

Mike [00:45:20]:
No, no, no. I think that. I think that to a degree, I think we're trying to become like animals somewhere. Like, again, we're trying to become squirrels.

Toliy [00:45:29]:
I agree. I think we're trying to get rid of things.

Mike [00:45:32]:
Yes.

Toliy [00:45:33]:
You know? Yeah, but it's.

Mike [00:45:35]:
We're trying to become almost instinctual.

Toliy [00:45:36]:
But you're telling me that squirrels are born with it and we are born with it?

Mike [00:45:40]:
When a squirrel dies because a hawk eats it, I don't think it suffers.

Toliy [00:45:43]:
No, I don't think it suffers. It's natural.

Mike [00:45:46]:
It's a natural design.

Eldar [00:45:47]:
Yeah, no, but I know, but I still think animals are subject to suffering.

Toliy [00:45:50]:
They definitely feel pain.

Mike [00:45:51]:
For sure, for sure. Yeah, but you know what I mean? There's a natural order in there. You know, the lion eats.

Toliy [00:45:57]:
There is a natural design.

Mike [00:45:58]:
Eats the gazelle. You know what I'm saying? The big fish eats the small fish.

Toliy [00:46:03]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:46:03]:
You know what I mean?

Eldar [00:46:04]:
That same order happens in mankind.

Mike [00:46:06]:
You know what I mean?

Eldar [00:46:08]:
Right. Like, in any different thing that you could think about.

Mike [00:46:13]:
Yeah, probably.

Toliy [00:46:13]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:46:14]:
You know? Yeah, yeah. I mean, like, I'm not sure that the animals are enlightened. I guess we have to define what. What that means. Like, is there. Is it possible to be subjected to.

Mike [00:46:29]:
I think animals as a collective is is. And it's not like that they're enlightened because, like, they walk around and all this other shit on next level. I'm not saying that. I'm saying that they're enlightened by design. Like, you know, they're not tainted. Like, they're designed this way to do what they do.

Toliy [00:46:45]:
Yeah. They can only operate within their design.

Mike [00:46:48]:
Correct. Yeah.

Eldar [00:46:49]:
I think humans are. I mean, I mean, like, obviously, they've proven to be much more advanced, like, uh, creatures.

Mike [00:46:56]:
I mean. I mean, yeah, yeah, you could say that. But that's also, you know.

Eldar [00:47:06]:
Like, I mean, like, what they've built, what they've, like, created, what, you know, I mean.

Mike [00:47:10]:
What have they done?

Eldar [00:47:13]:
Well, just really.

Mike [00:47:14]:
Wars. Yeah. I mean, atom bomb, plague.

Eldar [00:47:19]:
That's the cost, Covid. It's the cost of business.

Mike [00:47:24]:
You see what I'm saying? Yeah. You can't. You can't be biased. I get it. Industrial revolution, right? Solar panels make a lot of cool things. Sure, sure.

Toliy [00:47:36]:
But the thing is, nothing exists in. Outside of any creation that supersedes, like, what nature has.

Mike [00:47:44]:
Yeah, see, that's.

Toliy [00:47:45]:
That's craziness.

Mike [00:47:46]:
I'll moving towards that as well.

Toliy [00:47:48]:
How the nature itself is super ease.

Mike [00:47:50]:
All the shit that we know. Almost. Use one word. Sustainable.

Toliy [00:47:54]:
Yeah, sustainable. Yeah.

Eldar [00:47:57]:
What would the Earth.

Mike [00:47:58]:
Remove? Remove. Remove, motherfuckers. Right now?

Toliy [00:48:01]:
Mm hmm.

Mike [00:48:02]:
Us?

Toliy [00:48:02]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:48:03]:
From this Earth. Remove us?

Toliy [00:48:04]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:48:05]:
You think that shit on continue? It does.

Toliy [00:48:07]:
It has, I'm sure.

Eldar [00:48:09]:
No, but is the earth fully sustainable planet? I think without humans.

Mike [00:48:14]:
I think so.

Eldar [00:48:14]:
So you think it would never have blown.

Mike [00:48:17]:
I don't know.

Eldar [00:48:17]:
Nothing would ever have happened?

Mike [00:48:19]:
I don't think so.

Toliy [00:48:20]:
The planet doesn't need human.

Mike [00:48:21]:
I don't think so.

Eldar [00:48:22]:
What about if a meteor came down.

Mike [00:48:24]:
Then it'll, us humans right now could protect that from.

Eldar [00:48:27]:
No, no.

Mike [00:48:28]:
First of all, we can't do that.

Eldar [00:48:29]:
No, I'm saying nature would not be able to protect from that.

Mike [00:48:32]:
Right?

Eldar [00:48:33]:
No, like, I'm saying that it's not immune. Right.

Mike [00:48:35]:
It's also part of our nation. You're not saying that like, that's not out of the design. That is the design.

Toliy [00:48:40]:
The nature is the earth also has to heal itself.

Mike [00:48:42]:
Yeah.

Toliy [00:48:43]:
Well, yeah, you know, so that's.

Eldar [00:48:44]:
Then humans are doing the same thing that the earth would like. Right?

Toliy [00:48:47]:
Then.

Mike [00:48:48]:
What do you mean?

Eldar [00:48:49]:
Like, if part of that then is the healing, right, then, like, like whatever bad humans are doing, then that's also part of the healing.

Mike [00:48:58]:
Right? Yeah. It's just, you know, maybe because we're not so in tune into the natural design, right. What it was created to be, right. We're contributing a little bit more towards the destruction part also. Right. On one hand, and not really towards the design itself. Right. You know, it's not cool to find trees, right? Yeah, it's not cool to find trees, but it's cool to have ten lamborghinis, different color.

Eldar [00:49:27]:
Oh, yeah.

Mike [00:49:27]:
I mean, you know what I'm saying?

Eldar [00:49:29]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:49:30]:
It's easier. It's easier sell.

Eldar [00:49:32]:
Yes, 100%. You know what I mean?

Mike [00:49:36]:
And that's taken away from the earth, obviously. You know, the. The resources and pollution. Yada, yada, yada. Have you ever, have you ever driven behind a truck that's polluting?

Eldar [00:49:46]:
Yes.

Mike [00:49:47]:
How does that feel?

Eldar [00:49:49]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:49:50]:
Naturally to you?

Eldar [00:49:51]:
No.

Mike [00:49:51]:
Yeah, you like it? Good. No. Okay. You don't like it? Yeah, we actually drove behind one today, me and Mike. We almost lost our shit. We say, what the fuck is this? Yeah, what has happened? We're driving with, what the fuck? What does it smell? Yeah, we did not like it. No, mine. Mike's body said, yo, get away.

Eldar [00:50:10]:
Neither of you guys farted?

Mike [00:50:12]:
No, we definitely didn't fart. I prefer farting. You know, I'm saying it definitely didn't smell like that. You know what I mean? So, yeah, so you can't be biased. You can't be biased that humans, you know, got. Got their shit together. Some did, some do. Right.

Mike [00:50:30]:
But maybe most don't.

Toliy [00:50:32]:
Yeah, I don't. I don't think. Yeah, I mean, I guess I don't think that anything that we can experience, I guess.

Mike [00:50:44]:
Right.

Toliy [00:50:44]:
As humans, like, the great things that we can feel, right. Or experience, that's. We kind of like. That exists outside of nature. Right. Or outside of nature. Yeah.

Mike [00:50:56]:
Okay, so give some examples because you're making a serious claim.

Toliy [00:50:59]:
Yeah, no, I'm not making the claim. I'm just saying I don't think.

Mike [00:51:02]:
Oh, yeah. Okay, fine. I'll subject you to it, though.

Eldar [00:51:05]:
Yeah, well, like, is wanting a natural.

Mike [00:51:08]:
Thing.

Toliy [00:51:13]:
The natural things I think, that are, exist might be.

Mike [00:51:16]:
Well, why can't you be fascinated with you being alive?

Eldar [00:51:20]:
You can.

Mike [00:51:21]:
Can. Why do you want more?

Toliy [00:51:25]:
Right? Yeah, there's no. There's no feeling or of like, you. Like, there's no. I don't think there's a comparability of the happiness you can receive when it's received through a genuine thing versus like, oh, I'm really happy I got a raise on my job or I got a new car or I bought a bigger house. You cannot compare to those feelings that you can, like, share the happiness with your friend or share the happiness with somebody you love. Orlando. Share the happiness of a good conversation even, you know, when you're like, really in the moment together and you fucking, like, uncovering gold, you know?

Mike [00:51:57]:
Yeah.

Toliy [00:51:58]:
And I think that's why nature in its own. The way it exists. The rules of nature, right. All the things that we constantly talk about, right. Probably like justice, morals, virtues, values. Those things are. They exist in nature, I think, as well, you know? And they're. They're like those things that they exist.

Toliy [00:52:19]:
There's nothing necessary, needed. I'm not sure if there's anything necessarily needed for to, like that can make life any better outside of those things, you know, they might. You might feel like it, but that's because you just have maybe a lack of the other stuff, the real stuff, you know?

Mike [00:52:34]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:52:34]:
I think that, like, probably the reality of what happens is that most people are probably, I mean, like, let's assume not by choice, born into this world. And then I think that most people.

Toliy [00:52:49]:
Not born into this world by choices.

Eldar [00:52:57]:
Would argue that, like, potentially. That's what I was saying. Let's assume that. Right?

Mike [00:53:02]:
Let's assume that.

Eldar [00:53:03]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:53:03]:
Right.

Toliy [00:53:05]:
Right. What's it called? And if, like, if that's the case, then I think that, like, you were born, okay, now you're a human that like exists, right? Yeah. Like obviously most people don't even like think about that obviously, especially if they're young, right. But yeah, I think that like the cycle is to get confused and stay confused or to get confused and figure out a way to not get confused. Like, like I think that's probably the gig, the purpose, like the purpose of mankind. Either you're born, which I guess is a sick phenomenon like you said, right. And like you get confused about like words and about like life and about just like. Yeah, all kinds of things.

Eldar [00:54:10]:
And then you live your life to.

Mike [00:54:12]:
Try to your confused, yo. Holy shit. Yeah.

Eldar [00:54:18]:
You might be confused because you were born.

Mike [00:54:22]:
What the fuck? You know what, I was just chilling up there.

Toliy [00:54:25]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:54:25]:
You know what I'm saying? Yeah, how was just chilling up there. These motherfuckers made me born.

Toliy [00:54:30]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:54:31]:
So, yeah, I think that you get confused like I said, and then you just figure out ways ideally to get unconfused. Right. And then you, like if we track it back, like I think it tracks back to like the point of wanting things is to remove this confusion.

Mike [00:54:47]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:54:48]:
That you have.

Mike [00:54:48]:
Wow, wow. Yo, hold on 1 second. If I followed you correctly, the point of wanting things is to remove confusion. Holy shit, yo. Is that the truth of the matter? That resonated with me, like path. Huh?

Eldar [00:55:10]:
Cause like you might.

Mike [00:55:11]:
Yeah, well I agree with you.

Eldar [00:55:13]:
Yeah, you might, you might be confused, I don't know, about something and you think that watch or that thing or is gonna help you and then you just, uh. Yeah. Then you're gonna find out whether.

Toliy [00:55:25]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:55:26]:
Is it better or no.

Toliy [00:55:28]:
Yes.

Eldar [00:55:28]:
You know?

Mike [00:55:28]:
Holy shit, yo.

Eldar [00:55:30]:
Yeah, well, I'm gonna have to believe it on that.

Mike [00:55:33]:
Yeah, fine, fine. You can leave it on that. That was very good. The point of wanting things is to remove confusion. Yeah. So the faster, the more you want, the more suffering you will endure and more likely you will get a little bit, little bit of clarity, you know what I'm saying? Did we solve one thing or once? Yeah. Huh?

Toliy [00:55:56]:
Yeah. Now you gotta tell people, go out there and buy more shit, do more.

Mike [00:55:59]:
Stupid shit because you're actually confused.

Toliy [00:56:02]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:56:02]:
And you need to lead yourself more into confusion. So you can start asking yourself, you.

Toliy [00:56:06]:
Can finally give up.

Mike [00:56:07]:
You can finally give up. Holy shit. Wow. We solved one thing.

Toliy [00:56:13]:
Well, Jim Carrey said that too. Remember he said, go get, buy more shit, get richer.

Mike [00:56:17]:
Yeah. He said, I wish you guys get there faster, faster.

Toliy [00:56:20]:
Yeah, well, you're right.

Mike [00:56:21]:
Jim carried this like that. It was a good example just to find out that. That's not the way.

Toliy [00:56:27]:
Yeah, yeah, that's exactly it.

Mike [00:56:33]:
Well.

Toliy [00:56:33]:
Mm hmm.

Mike [00:56:36]:
So you have anything else to say about it?

Toliy [00:56:38]:
About once?

Mike [00:56:40]:
Yeah, let's give some suggestions. Yo.

Toliy [00:56:43]:
I mean.

Mike [00:56:44]:
I mean, I don't know if the listener is gonna be like, yo, no, no, no, wait a second.

Toliy [00:56:47]:
Well, I think, yeah. Like, for me, like, yeah, you know, my thought is, like, yeah, I mean, this is one way to go about.

Mike [00:56:54]:
It, but is there a better way to do it? No, I think the better way is to actually define what it exactly that you want and how you actually want it. Right.

Toliy [00:57:06]:
Is there a certain things that are actually okay to be wanted that actually do benefit you in a sense?

Mike [00:57:15]:
I do think, for example. I do think so, yeah. I agree with that.

Toliy [00:57:17]:
I think discovering those things.

Mike [00:57:19]:
Yeah.

Toliy [00:57:20]:
Is important.

Mike [00:57:21]:
Yeah. If you can find out the things that you. That actually can benefit you and benefit you and in a good way, wanting those things and defining them properly and then following those things with action can actually be very liberating. It can help you, can make you happy because you're accomplishing those things. But those things, I think, have to be rooted in truth. And without just stating the obvious, oh, I want this. I want that. I want that.

Mike [00:57:46]:
If you don't examine those wants and that they are rooted in truth, you can be on a goose chase for a very long time, which is also not bad. No. Like, no. For example. Right? Like, you wanted. You wanted to date before, and now you wanted to learn how to have self love. Right? And if you find out what. What that actually entails, self love.

Mike [00:58:10]:
You know what I mean? Quickly find out that, you know, in the form of dating that you used to partake in. It's not a form of self love. The two contradict themselves. So therefore, you know, if you don't find out the right way of self loving in dating, you're most likely gonna partake in something that's not gonna make you happy, or you will find out how to do it, and you will be true to yourself, and you will do it in such a way will make you happy, which will get you to the next level. And I think that's what needs to be promoted.

Toliy [00:58:44]:
Those things should be promoted, and you got to figure out what those things are.

Mike [00:58:47]:
You have to figure those things out. Yeah. Whether or not they're rooted in truth. Yeah. You know what I mean?

Toliy [00:58:53]:
Yeah. Well, that's like, that's kind of like how I feel.

Mike [00:58:56]:
Like.

Toliy [00:58:58]:
That'S kind of where I'm at and my kind of thing. That's what I'm trying to more. Trying to figure out how to, like, align myself.

Mike [00:59:09]:
Right.

Toliy [00:59:09]:
With these things and not get swayed by the other stuff, not have, like, you know.

Mike [00:59:15]:
Those desires.

Toliy [00:59:17]:
Yeah, I guess.

Mike [00:59:19]:
You still biling that, that, uh, that balance?

Toliy [00:59:25]:
I'm trying to find the balance.

Mike [00:59:26]:
Yeah, you are?

Toliy [00:59:27]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:59:28]:
Yeah.

Toliy [00:59:28]:
I'm trying to find the balance.

Mike [00:59:29]:
Yeah. Yeah.

Toliy [00:59:30]:
You know.

Mike [00:59:32]:
Well, listen, at least we could see that, you know, because of the fact that you're not in action yet and an excitable action that gets you in trouble.

Toliy [00:59:40]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:59:41]:
You still keep in a cool head, which is good.

Toliy [00:59:43]:
Yeah. They're not getting in trouble with that.

Mike [00:59:48]:
Yeah. And I think that when you iron those things out for yourself and define them properly, I think that you can go out there and really have a good time.

Toliy [00:59:58]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:59:58]:
You know what I'm saying? Like, with intention, with integrity, with self control. Right. But still with excitement and chaos that you enjoy and you like.

Toliy [01:00:10]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:00:10]:
You know what I'm saying? But it's more gonna be deliberate versus unexpected.

Toliy [01:00:18]:
Mm hmm. Yeah. Yeah.

Mike [01:00:22]:
Because that's what ultimately it is. You know, we're not trying to break your nature.

Toliy [01:00:26]:
Yeah. No, I think the thing is, it's finding a way to be myself. Right.

Mike [01:00:35]:
Mm hmm.

Toliy [01:00:36]:
The things that, you know, the qualities that I have, the good ones, you know, that I think are good, and the other people recognize them as well as good, but. Yeah, the good qualities I have, but also to have a control over them. Not for them to have, like, you know, control over you. Exactly. Not. Not to be, like, you know, get carried away and stuff.

Mike [01:00:54]:
Yeah, yeah. But if you do get carried away, you know exactly what you're doing. Right.

Toliy [01:00:59]:
Eventually, sooner and sooner, you'll find out. Sooner than later, hopefully I'll find out if I do get carried away.

Mike [01:01:03]:
No, but, no, but you want to go into getting carried away in such a way where it's like you're consciously getting carried away. You're still under control.

Toliy [01:01:11]:
Oh, yeah, yeah.

Mike [01:01:12]:
You know what I mean?

Toliy [01:01:13]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:01:14]:
But you still are harvesting the energy that you need in order to enjoy yourself.

Toliy [01:01:18]:
Yeah. You know, it's. I was thinking about this, this kind of, in the, like, we talk about a lot of different topics, a lot of different concepts and things, you know, and because, like, I've lived my life a certain way.

Mike [01:01:34]:
Yeah.

Toliy [01:01:34]:
For a very long time, you know, and now, like, it's a complete opposite, I guess, understanding. I think it's important that it's gonna take time to reprogram a lot of things.

Mike [01:01:49]:
Yeah.

Toliy [01:01:50]:
You know, and I think you know, like, I guess maybe I'm sometimes not accepting of myself when I have, like, which part? Huh?

Mike [01:02:01]:
Which part are you not accepting of?

Toliy [01:02:02]:
Myself?

Mike [01:02:03]:
Yeah.

Toliy [01:02:04]:
Like, when I have, like, things of, like, wanting to do stupid things.

Mike [01:02:06]:
Right.

Toliy [01:02:07]:
Things that don't really line up with my character, that I want to be the way I'd like to live.

Mike [01:02:12]:
Yeah.

Toliy [01:02:12]:
But more so still, like, you know, residuals from my previous past choices that I probably haven't examined. That's why I still tain those ideas. Like, I don't know. Like. Yeah. Like, wanting to go to an event and wanted to go for, like, the fancy seating, the really expensive, getting that crazy experience, you know, wanted to do it that way versus, like, you know, maybe doing it a different way, you know?

Mike [01:02:40]:
Mm hmm.

Toliy [01:02:40]:
Like, a more affordable route.

Mike [01:02:43]:
Yeah. Yeah.

Toliy [01:02:44]:
You know? Or. Yeah, probably with the dating stuff is. Is. Yeah, with the dating. I can give you a more concrete example. If before, when I wanted to date, I would maybe rely on certain things to give me confidence.

Mike [01:03:01]:
Right. Yeah.

Toliy [01:03:02]:
Whether it was like, you know, and probably it didn't work, obviously, but, you know, like, having a flashy car or having nice clothes, nice watch, whatever. Yeah. Now, I understand that I cannot rely on those things.

Mike [01:03:13]:
Yeah.

Toliy [01:03:14]:
But the natural mind is, like, yo. Like, it's still. It's still, like, you know, glitching. It glitches because now I'm like, yo, no, I actually want to present myself because I have a good character, because I'm a good person, because I'm living a right life, you know?

Mike [01:03:29]:
But that's some journey, man.

Toliy [01:03:32]:
Yeah, it's crazy.

Mike [01:03:33]:
It's an exciting journey.

Toliy [01:03:34]:
It's very.

Mike [01:03:35]:
Like you're living two lives in one.

Toliy [01:03:37]:
Yeah. I'm bouncing from one to another.

Mike [01:03:39]:
Yeah. It's crazy.

Toliy [01:03:40]:
For sure.

Mike [01:03:41]:
Yeah.

Toliy [01:03:41]:
But I'm trying to reprogram myself.

Mike [01:03:43]:
Yeah.

Toliy [01:03:44]:
And I guess I have to give myself time. Right. And to say, like, hey, I. You know, like, I've been carrying those things for a very long time, you know? I mean, I'm 30, 37, so, yeah. I don't know how many years. Probably 20 years. I've been, you know, carrying a lot of these things consciously as I've been an adult, you know, maybe not.

Mike [01:04:04]:
Mm hmm.

Toliy [01:04:05]:
Now I have to reprogram myself to say, hey, actually, these are my strengths.

Mike [01:04:10]:
Yeah.

Toliy [01:04:10]:
These new things that I'm now learning to uncover, you know? And those things are not. So now it's like, it's different. It's very, like. It's a. It's a weird. It's a weird thing. That happens.

Mike [01:04:20]:
Really?

Toliy [01:04:21]:
Yeah, it's very.

Mike [01:04:22]:
Do you still feel like it's weird because you've been doing it for a.

Toliy [01:04:24]:
Little while because I haven't applied it to dating.

Mike [01:04:26]:
Okay.

Toliy [01:04:27]:
In other parts of the, like, in my interactions.

Mike [01:04:30]:
Yeah, no, I'm so excited for that. For that. For that stage in your life you don't understand. Yeah, because, you know why I'm excited? Because you're finally presenting with something that's like, it's still predictable because of the way you are now, but it's more unpredictable than what you were predictable before. You were predictable before we knew you were gonna end that up because of all self esteem and stuff, you know, and if you can finally conquer this, like, it's just gonna. I think it's gonna be fireworks. I'm excited for that. You know what I'm saying?

Toliy [01:05:02]:
Yeah. I mean, I'm excited, too. I definitely, you know, you know, think about that. But I'm not excited enough because I'm still cautious working on implementing that. Yeah, I'm cautious, but I'm also. I want to implement that so that I can actually, you know, fully believe, like, hey, this is my strengths.

Mike [01:05:17]:
Yeah.

Toliy [01:05:17]:
This is why I'm, yeah. Valuable person, like, you know, to myself.

Mike [01:05:22]:
Somebody wants to be around. Yeah. Yeah.

Toliy [01:05:24]:
Why I want what I'm actually presenting, you know, like, yeah. And not, not even for that person, but just for me to feel like, hey, I'm. Yeah, I'm living a good life. Like a righteous life.

Mike [01:05:35]:
Yeah.

Toliy [01:05:36]:
Life that's, you know, rooted in some good things.

Mike [01:05:40]:
Yeah.

Toliy [01:05:40]:
You know, not just some nonsense. The glitching is, like, still there. It's not like, you know, it just shuts off one day and, you know, no, absolutely not.

Mike [01:05:51]:
I think that's the buy in into yourself.

Toliy [01:05:53]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:05:53]:
You know, that you're still teetering between.

Toliy [01:05:55]:
Yeah, yeah. And I think anybody, you know, who's listening or, you know, who's gonna listen to this, I think.

Mike [01:06:01]:
Yeah.

Toliy [01:06:02]:
Who's also, you know, because I think people want trying to figure out a life they might not be, you know, from the birds eye view to somebody else, it may not seem that they are, you know, are they making that, like, mistakes? But people are trying to figure this shit out. I know. And, you know, if. I guess maybe if somebody would have told me, like, hey, I would have. I would come to this point.

Mike [01:06:27]:
Yeah.

Toliy [01:06:27]:
Where I'm, like, now teetering between the two.

Mike [01:06:29]:
Yeah.

Toliy [01:06:30]:
I wouldn't understood it until I got here. Maybe, you know, I'm not sure. I guess maybe you have to actually experience it to know.

Mike [01:06:38]:
I mean, but you had a pretty serious transformation, man. So, like, it's not like. I mean, I think a lot of people maybe see glimpses of those things, those little. Maybe epiphanies.

Toliy [01:06:47]:
Yeah, right.

Mike [01:06:48]:
But you almost have to live out an epiphany that you epiphanied, you know what I mean? And you have to see it through. Like you've opened the Pandora box. You can't close.

Toliy [01:06:56]:
I have to see it through, and I'm trying to see it through. Yeah. And I actually, you know, I think I like to, you know, I have a lot of energy. I like to do things, so. Yeah, I'm trying to, you know. Yeah, do do a lot, you know, and I'm excited.

Mike [01:07:09]:
Yeah.

Toliy [01:07:10]:
For, you know, to like, get deeper and deeper. But I'm also trying to find an approach where it works for me. Like, I don't like school. I don't like studying. Right.

Mike [01:07:17]:
Yeah.

Toliy [01:07:18]:
So I'm not gonna go and do school and studying, but I may listen to podcasts or I may, you know, listen to audio books. So I'm trying to figure out a.

Mike [01:07:26]:
Way to also think, you know, to interrupt you about not liking the school and stuff.

Toliy [01:07:32]:
Yeah, you.

Mike [01:07:33]:
I think you're selling yourself short there.

Toliy [01:07:34]:
Well, I. Who I was. Yeah.

Mike [01:07:36]:
Yeah.

Toliy [01:07:37]:
Yes, I said I should have said who I was.

Mike [01:07:38]:
Yeah, yeah.

Toliy [01:07:39]:
Cuz I did actually enroll in a college.

Mike [01:07:41]:
Yeah. Don't know. I'm thinking right now on the way you would take in school or you would take in.

Toliy [01:07:48]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:07:48]:
Something else that you didn't like. I don't know, Kim. Nothing comes to mind.

Toliy [01:07:51]:
Well, yeah, I mean, I have thinking about school, so, you know, so it's.

Mike [01:07:55]:
Like, that doesn't mean that you will, like I said, take in the stuff that you used to not take in the right way or the way you wanted, that you would take him differently now. So.

Toliy [01:08:04]:
Yeah, I probably.

Mike [01:08:05]:
I definitely wouldn't want you to close off, close yourself all those things if you're thinking about that. Yeah, no, you know what I mean? If they naturally come into your mind, like, hey, what would school do to me? You know what I'm saying? What's stopping you away? You don't have to go and enroll a bachelor's degree, go into a class or two that are interesting interest.

Toliy [01:08:21]:
I think that's what I'm gonna do. Yeah, eventually, you know, at some point, I'm gonna sign up for some courses.

Mike [01:08:28]:
Yeah. But, you know, because I think that the adventures or the things that you sometimes crave or say you want to do, you know what I mean? Like, oh, I want to travel or I want to do this and stuff like that. I think the traveling happens here, right? What you want, I think what you're yearning for a lot of the times, I think, is something different, something new, something exciting. You know what I mean? Now, imagine yourself right now in class.

Toliy [01:08:54]:
Yeah. Pretty sick.

Mike [01:08:56]:
Sick experience.

Toliy [01:08:57]:
Yeah, right?

Mike [01:08:58]:
Old geezer, you know what I say? Here's this guy, you know what I'm saying? Who's a boss, right? Who is a business owner, knows his shit, did his shit, tried a lot of shit. Now sitting down and trying to try and do something different completely. Like, not only do you influence yourself in a crazy way, but also the people around, you know, what you can contribute to conversation as to, like, what's actually going on.

Toliy [01:09:19]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:09:20]:
You know what I mean? Think about that adventure.

Toliy [01:09:22]:
Yeah, don't.

Mike [01:09:23]:
I don't think you should, you know, close yourself off.

Toliy [01:09:25]:
No, I am definitely interested.

Mike [01:09:26]:
But you know what I mean? I think there's a reason why a lot of people sometimes wake up one day and say, yo, fuck this. Fuck my career, fuck all this. I want to go back to school and I want to learn something new. And they actually go and pursue something that they're interested in. At fucking 40. At 50. At 60. Normal's.

Mike [01:09:42]:
Fucking normal's almost 80.

Toliy [01:09:43]:
Yeah. He was.

Mike [01:09:44]:
He was fascinated by philosophy, and I was like, holy shit. What the fuck are you doing here? You know what I mean? But he explained his reasons, you know, I mean, rest in peace, Norm. But, yeah, he was a fascinating guy, and it was cool talking to him, you know what I mean? At the time.

Toliy [01:09:57]:
Sure, he did have a lot of.

Mike [01:09:59]:
But he was in a community college at 80 years old, bro.

Toliy [01:10:02]:
Yeah, it was.

Mike [01:10:03]:
And he had good reasons as to why he was there.

Toliy [01:10:05]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:10:06]:
You know what I'm saying?

Toliy [01:10:06]:
Yeah, yeah. You know, so, yeah, one thing that. That it was I observed recently, when we first started this, like, you know, I started on this journey, I wanted to be, you know, with you guys as much as possible.

Mike [01:10:24]:
Yeah.

Toliy [01:10:25]:
Like, I guess, yeah. At first I was kind of living my life, doing things I was doing. Right. I had, like, my routine, my shit.

Mike [01:10:31]:
Yeah.

Toliy [01:10:32]:
You know, like gym, then hang out, then come here, work, whatever. Like, I had a routine.

Mike [01:10:36]:
Yeah.

Toliy [01:10:37]:
Right. But then when I, you know, decided to try this, like, I don't know what to call it, whatever, I decided. Self discovery. Yeah. I, like, kind of more so wanted to decay to my life, to come in here and focusing on that and studying that.

Mike [01:10:53]:
Yeah.

Toliy [01:10:53]:
And I kind of put a lot of other stuff on the back burner, like, you know, going to the gym. Right. Going on hiking, like, things that I used to do, like, you know.

Mike [01:11:00]:
Yeah.

Toliy [01:11:00]:
Kind of. A lot of sporty stuff. Right. I don't know. Whatever. Going out, like. Yeah, maybe. I don't know.

Toliy [01:11:08]:
Definitely talking to girls, like, stop. Like, a lot of stuff. Stop.

Mike [01:11:10]:
Yeah.

Toliy [01:11:11]:
And that was my identity for a long time, and I feel like I was. I mean, I know. Maybe you feel like it. Well, I was immersed in it. I would come all and ask questions.

Mike [01:11:19]:
And try to get you out the door again, to go out there and do the.

Toliy [01:11:22]:
Yeah. See? And that. And you stole him. Yes, I know, but that's what I was gonna say. I say that. I'm saying that, like, I got. I got. I came in here, and I kind of got stuck.

Mike [01:11:32]:
Yeah.

Toliy [01:11:32]:
You know.

Mike [01:11:33]:
Yeah.

Toliy [01:11:34]:
Not in a bad way. I got stuck, like, in a good way.

Mike [01:11:36]:
Yeah.

Toliy [01:11:37]:
Because I needed to, like, you know.

Mike [01:11:38]:
Well, we talked about that. We talked about the fact that, like, you should have a help. You should develop a healthy skepticism about yourself and about your excitement levels because you get too excited very quick.

Toliy [01:11:48]:
Yeah, right.

Mike [01:11:49]:
But that gets you in trouble. What you need to do is develop a little bit of anxiety. Right. A little bit of a self doubt and stuff like that, where you go, like, okay, wait a second. Let me think this through. But not to the point where you paranoid. Right. And not go out there and do stuff.

Mike [01:12:03]:
You know what I mean? If you learn the balance. No, you got to go out and practice the shit.

Toliy [01:12:07]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:12:07]:
Out there into the world.

Toliy [01:12:08]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:12:09]:
I guess it was a different form.

Toliy [01:12:10]:
Was a mild, probably for, like, how I thought about it. I'm not sure, like, having went, like, really deep into thinking about it, but it was a mild form of, like, fomo.

Mike [01:12:20]:
Yeah.

Toliy [01:12:20]:
I was like, hey, I don't want to not miss this.

Mike [01:12:22]:
Yeah.

Toliy [01:12:23]:
Because it's been so good for such a long time. Yeah, we've been really.

Mike [01:12:26]:
There's nothing to miss.

Toliy [01:12:27]:
But then I'm like, wait, but I got to go out there and live my life.

Mike [01:12:30]:
You got a practice.

Toliy [01:12:31]:
So I got to go out there and actually do that, which I'm trying to implement now 100%. And I just recently, like, kind of, you know, started thinking about that, more understanding, like, hey, yeah, now I have to evolve and, you know, go out there and practice the stuff that we've been talking about and then still come. Come here and. And, you know, do the stuff that I want to do, but also now implement and balance out other things that.

Mike [01:12:51]:
I want to talk your shit now.

Eldar [01:12:54]:
Yeah.

Toliy [01:12:54]:
Yeah, I think I got stuck a little bit on that.

Mike [01:12:58]:
As long as you don't get stuck with buddy over here on my left.

Toliy [01:13:01]:
Yeah, what I'm saying? Yeah. Well, I think, yeah. Like, I. Now I studied, now I feel like now I'm ready to go out and test it. And test it.

Mike [01:13:10]:
Yes.

Toliy [01:13:10]:
But for a while, I was, like. I wasn't unsure what was happening. I got a little. I got stuck, but I wasn't sure. I didn't realize what's. What it was.

Mike [01:13:17]:
Yeah. No, no. I think it's not a matter of being stuck. You probably maybe overstayed your welcome for a little bit.

Toliy [01:13:22]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:13:22]:
For yourself, but it was necessary.

Toliy [01:13:25]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:13:25]:
It was necessary for you kind of, you know, find the balance between the two. And now that you're finding it, hopefully you find things that you really enjoy and do yourself that actually are gonna be beneficial. Still enjoy that, what you've learned.

Toliy [01:13:37]:
Yeah. Yeah, sure. Yeah. Like, you remember I used to go out to New York a lot, walk around, do my own thing. Like, I started that completely, and now, like, I don't. I didn't have a desire for it because I was like, yo, like, I don't know, is this gravitated towards a different thing, you know? And now I'm like, wait, I want to go do those things. I used to enjoy those things, you know?

Mike [01:13:53]:
Yeah.

Toliy [01:13:53]:
And now, I guess now I have a new character that I'm trying to develop. That new character has to find interest as well. Can't be just, you know, in the lab all the time.

Mike [01:14:01]:
100%.

Toliy [01:14:01]:
So that's. That's kind of where I'm.

Mike [01:14:03]:
Yo, shout out to D and the listeners. Yeah.

Toliy [01:14:05]:
D, we're about to get out of the philosophy bubble, not.

Mike [01:14:10]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.

Toliy [01:14:12]:
Yeah. We don't want to throw you off, D. I'm going to.

Mike [01:14:14]:
You got to bring the philosophy bubble into the world.

Toliy [01:14:16]:
Yes.

Mike [01:14:17]:
You know what I'm saying? And see whether or not the philosophy bubble stands a chance.

Toliy [01:14:20]:
Yeah. Yeah. Well, this is the test.

Mike [01:14:22]:
Yeah.

Toliy [01:14:22]:
And I'm excited that. I'm excited for. I'm excited, you know.

Mike [01:14:24]:
You know what I'm saying? Because you said dating is important to you. Dating, friendships, and all this other shit. You know what I mean? Go out there and really, you know, test yourself and enjoy yourself.

Toliy [01:14:32]:
Yeah, yeah.

Mike [01:14:33]:
That's where you harvest actual, real energy and really enjoy yourself. Yeah, potentially, you know.

Toliy [01:14:41]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:14:41]:
If you need to go back to the lab and. Yeah, it's always there. For you. Because now, you know, there's different ways of conducting yourself. Yeah.

Toliy [01:14:50]:
No, different ways of thinking.

Mike [01:14:51]:
There's different things. Ways of reasoning, choosing. You know what I mean?

Toliy [01:14:54]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:14:55]:
Choose this way you can choose that way you can see how those things can can play out in real life, you know?

Toliy [01:15:01]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:15:02]:
So it's definitely exciting.

Toliy [01:15:03]:
Mm hmm. For sure. Yeah. Definitely. I'm looking forward to, like, discovering more hundred percent of myself and good and a different side of myself.

Mike [01:15:12]:
Yeah. Yeah. Implying into the world.

Toliy [01:15:14]:
Yeah. Yeah.

Mike [01:15:15]:
I'm also excited. For sure. I'm definitely excited where I'm I wasn't maybe I wasn't so excited before. I was maybe a little bit more concerned about certain things that you wanted to do. But I also trusted the process.

Toliy [01:15:29]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:15:30]:
Now I'm excited. You know what I mean? Before I was skeptical and cautious.

Toliy [01:15:35]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:15:36]:
You know what I mean? Not worried because I understand that it is what it is and you have to go through it.

Toliy [01:15:40]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:15:41]:
And, you know, I guess hit those roll bumps and you will hit roll bumps here too.

Toliy [01:15:45]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:15:45]:
I'm more excited because I think that you're, you're you're going to create and you're not going to be creative.

Toliy [01:15:51]:
Yeah. Yeah.

Mike [01:15:55]:
I'm going to create and not be creative.

Toliy [01:15:57]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:15:58]:
Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Because before you were on the creative part.

Toliy [01:16:01]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:16:01]:
Somebody else was creating you.

Toliy [01:16:03]:
Creating my shit. Yeah. And I lit and I live those things out.

Mike [01:16:05]:
Yeah. I mean, you didn't know how to say no.

Toliy [01:16:07]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:16:08]:
You know how to step away.

Toliy [01:16:09]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:16:10]:
You know what I mean? And you took it on the chin every time, you know. Unfortunately.

Toliy [01:16:13]:
Yeah, I did.

Mike [01:16:14]:
Or fortunately now, no. You know, Rose. Rose like the phoenix.

Toliy [01:16:18]:
Right.

Mike [01:16:19]:
And now we're gonna see what happens now.

Toliy [01:16:21]:
Yeah. It's interesting.

Mike [01:16:23]:
For sure. Yeah.

Toliy [01:16:24]:
Yeah. I mean, yeah. I don't know. Like I think a lot of people kind of tying so we're saying, yeah, suffering is definitely looked upon as like a bad thing.

Mike [01:16:34]:
Yeah.

Toliy [01:16:36]:
And it definitely in the moment, it definitely doesn't feel good.

Mike [01:16:39]:
Yes.

Toliy [01:16:39]:
That's.

Mike [01:16:40]:
Yeah. But in hindsight, right.

Toliy [01:16:41]:
Look, but in hindsight, you fucking like.

Mike [01:16:45]:
You killing it in that sense.

Toliy [01:16:47]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:16:47]:
And I think you will kill it.

Toliy [01:16:49]:
Yeah. Yeah.

Mike [01:16:51]:
You gotta go out there. I'm gonna, you know what I'm saying? Like, you can't be a buddha sitting in the forest fucking all day long. Medicine.

Toliy [01:16:57]:
Definitely gonna go out there.

Mike [01:16:58]:
You know what I'm saying? You gotta go out there and talk your shit and run some shit.

Toliy [01:17:03]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:17:03]:
You know, that's. I'm excited and you know, there's people running amok, Mike. That's all. Running amok. And you need to saddle them like a horse.

Toliy [01:17:14]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:17:14]:
Mike is coming is the title of this fucking podcast.

Toliy [01:17:18]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:17:19]:
Where he's going, we don't know yet, but he's definitely coming.

Toliy [01:17:21]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:17:22]:
Yeah. So brace yourself. Mike is gonna fuck shit up, y'all, with unlimited energy.

Toliy [01:17:28]:
Yeah. This is true. Yeah. I can't believe it. The energy is just crazy. Yeah, yeah, I do it. I mean, it's. Yeah, it's a good thing, I think.

Mike [01:17:38]:
Hundred percent, you know? Hundred percent, I think. Yeah, I'm definitely excited, bro. You know what I mean? Because, you know, for a long period of time, you were hitting your head against the wall.

Toliy [01:17:49]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:17:50]:
You know, on a lot of things. And now that it's. Now that your eyes are open, I mean, it's impossible to hit it all.

Toliy [01:17:58]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:17:58]:
You're gonna kick the wall through the.

Toliy [01:18:00]:
Suffering thing is easy. Is very interesting, the misconception about it, I guess. I know. I don't know if it's a misconception, but, yeah, everybody has such a bad connotation or bad, like, things about suffering is. But, you know, again, it's the same thing. Until you, like, experience it, you can't say, like, I can say, yo, like, what? Buddhists, when they said suffering is the shit. Like, they are. They are on to something, but until you actually experience it and come out on the other end.

Toliy [01:18:25]:
Mm hmm. You don't. You can't comprehend that thought because it's like there's some. I don't know. I'm not sure. I guess there's some magic that happens, you know? There is magic, you know, I'm not even sure, like, how to label it or what to, like, how to box it in, but, yeah, coming out on the other end from, like, through suffering, on to the right side, hopefully, of things.

Mike [01:18:47]:
Yeah.

Toliy [01:18:47]:
It, uh. I mean, it already feels rewarding. Yeah, whatever, like, happens in the dating or doesn't happen.

Mike [01:18:54]:
Yeah.

Toliy [01:18:54]:
Already living like this kind of life is already rewarding, you know?

Mike [01:18:58]:
Yeah. Yeah. Inherently, it's already good.

Toliy [01:19:00]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:19:01]:
You know what I mean? So if you follow that path, you'll be good.

Toliy [01:19:04]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:19:05]:
You know, but life doesn't end there, Mike. You know what I'm saying? If you still want to fall in love and be loved.

Toliy [01:19:12]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:19:12]:
I think you definitely should pursue that.

Toliy [01:19:14]:
I do. Yeah. I definitely.

Mike [01:19:16]:
This is not, you know, where you just fucking stop here.

Toliy [01:19:19]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:19:20]:
You know what I'm saying? No. Life continues. And I think that it's the beautiful part about it, you know?

Toliy [01:19:24]:
Yeah, no, I think I do. I do want to still fall in love 100%.

Mike [01:19:28]:
Yeah.

Toliy [01:19:28]:
But you have a better picture now.

Mike [01:19:31]:
You want to fall in love. No, there's a lot more behind it now.

Toliy [01:19:35]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:19:36]:
You know, and if listeners just listening, tuning in today, Mike's journey is a fascinating one, which was documented on this podcast and especially in the beginning stages of this podcast.

Toliy [01:19:47]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:19:48]:
So if you want to listen back to what he came, where he came from, and where he's at now and where he's going, keep tuning in, you know, and check out the other podcasts episodes. This is fascinating. You know, it is crazy, but it's beautiful, you know? I mean. Yeah. I mean, how can you not call that right where it's like you said, like you're already benefiting from it without even finalizing the goal that you're looking for, you know what I mean?

Toliy [01:20:15]:
Yes.

Mike [01:20:17]:
I think that you need to go and harvest this. This new thing that you want to harvest, just to then open up yourself to even more challenges within that process and learn even more, and then really continue to actualize yourself and become a better man.

Toliy [01:20:30]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:20:31]:
You know? Become a real man. You know, that stands up for what's right, you know, believes what's right, you know, constantly searches for what's true, you know, and passes that on to the people around you.

Toliy [01:20:43]:
Yeah. And I think that's big, too, Mandy. I think a natural thing of, like. Yeah. Like, the way I feel, I like, it's amazing to pass it on to somebody that you love.

Mike [01:20:54]:
Yeah.

Toliy [01:20:55]:
But I also think, like, also bringing more people in and sharing this, whether it's in person, whether it's on the podcast.

Mike [01:21:01]:
Yeah.

Toliy [01:21:01]:
Or whether it's just like a conversation of, you know, in the gym where you have a conversation with the person and, like, maybe you feel like you walked away and you helped that person, or they feel it. Like, that's a great thing to.

Mike [01:21:13]:
Yeah.

Toliy [01:21:14]:
Everybody here, we're all trying to figure life out. Hundred percent, you know, 100. And I think if we can help each other, which I think we are meant to do.

Mike [01:21:21]:
Yeah. It's just on Dennis Rocks podcast, we do a bust.

Toliy [01:21:26]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:21:26]:
It just did. Just don't know yet.

Toliy [01:21:28]:
Not yet. Yeah.

Mike [01:21:29]:
But Dennis is gonna tune us in. You know what I mean? To the listener.

Toliy [01:21:32]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:21:32]:
He's gonna explain to us how to fucking properly appeal to them, you know, how to behave and shit.

Toliy [01:21:36]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:21:36]:
We don't fuck some shit up and.

Toliy [01:21:38]:
Yeah. But. But again, in life.

Mike [01:21:41]:
Mmm.

Toliy [01:21:42]:
Premature. Doesn't happen in nature. I don't think.

Mike [01:21:45]:
No, we supposed to.

Toliy [01:21:47]:
We're supposed to be people gonna find this when they find us on their own time. On their own time.

Mike [01:21:52]:
Yeah.

Toliy [01:21:53]:
And if it's.

Mike [01:21:54]:
It's minute. One person at a time, like I said. Yeah, one person at a time.

Toliy [01:21:58]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:21:58]:
That's all.

Toliy [01:21:59]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:22:00]:
That's huge. That's huge. Yeah.

Toliy [01:22:02]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:22:03]:
Yeah. So if you have any questions, submit them on Dennis rocks.com. ask Dennis.

Toliy [01:22:10]:
And Dennis will not be answering those questions.

Mike [01:22:12]:
No, Dennis will probably not be answering those questions. He's actually, unfortunately still subjected to worldly or how would you call him?

Toliy [01:22:22]:
Societies primitive things.

Mike [01:22:23]:
Mike, don't use those words. Be a little bit more sensitive.

Toliy [01:22:26]:
You have to have a little. Add a little humor.

Mike [01:22:27]:
Yes, this is true. Yeah. You know, he's subjected to, you know, I guess making money. And that's why you should, you know, I don't know how you can donate right now. You should just listen for now. We don't have like a patreon or any other show, you know what I mean? But as this gets bigger and stuff like that, hopefully individuals that used to come here, but they can't because they have to work and make money, we can alleviate that for them as well. So they can. We can invite them and take.

Mike [01:22:50]:
Have their take as well.

Toliy [01:22:51]:
But if it doesn't know that's what they want.

Mike [01:22:53]:
If that's what they want. Yeah. If they don't, then it is what it is and good riddance. You know what I'm saying then?

Toliy [01:23:00]:
Are you being insensitive?

Mike [01:23:02]:
I fucking went off of you, bro. You know what I'm saying? You fucked me up, bro. I wasn't sensitive, y'all. The mic said that for me. Yeah. In my voice.

Toliy [01:23:09]:
I bullied you into it.

Mike [01:23:10]:
You bully me into it. Yeah. Yeah. It's good stuff. For sure. For sure.

Toliy [01:23:17]:
Oh, yeah, that's good.

Mike [01:23:19]:
All right, so let's go fuck shit up.

Toliy [01:23:20]:
Let's go.

Mike [01:23:21]:
All right. Yeah. Any final thoughts on the one thing theme?

Toliy [01:23:24]:
Yeah. When I. When I came in here, you guys definitely confused the fuck out of me.

Mike [01:23:28]:
Did you understand what we're saying?

Toliy [01:23:29]:
I understand where you guys got to, but. Yes, I. Yeah, but it was like. It was definitely tricky.

Mike [01:23:34]:
Mainly it's improper speech.

Toliy [01:23:36]:
I get it. But that's you asking for, like, crazy next level speech. But I get it.

Mike [01:23:40]:
We're not hiding for it.

Toliy [01:23:41]:
No, no.

Mike [01:23:41]:
But we're trying to find out where the suffering comes from.

Toliy [01:23:44]:
I get it. You're asking for it to be examined.

Mike [01:23:47]:
Yeah, yeah.

Toliy [01:23:48]:
And I. I think it's examining the want. Yeah.

Mike [01:23:51]:
The general shit we all get.

Toliy [01:23:53]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:23:54]:
We always want to fight that.

Toliy [01:23:55]:
Yeah. I think the prob probably is just that our want is very fast.

Mike [01:23:59]:
Yeah.

Toliy [01:24:00]:
We don't phrase the things properly. We don't say, I want this, but can I afford it? But can I, do I need it? Does it gonna give me what I actually want? The first one is. And then action.

Mike [01:24:10]:
Yes.

Toliy [01:24:11]:
So, you know, usually on act or non action.

Mike [01:24:15]:
Yeah.

Toliy [01:24:15]:
You know, but if it's a. Action is where we get in trouble, where we chase wants that we don't actually gonna give us what we actually want.

Mike [01:24:22]:
Correct. And then to finalize with that is that we concluded that one thing is actually key to our confusion, which makes our confusion grow larger. And as soon as we find out that we're confused. Right. Like Jim Carrey was confused for a very long time.

Toliy [01:24:40]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:24:40]:
Right. Chasing money and stuff and fame.

Toliy [01:24:43]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:24:44]:
Just to find out that he actually. That's not what he wanted. He wanted to be happy.

Toliy [01:24:48]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:24:49]:
And everything that he was under the impression that what's gonna make him happy, it was wrong, but it was never examined. So you might be actually living and very unexamined once right now. Right.

Toliy [01:25:00]:
Which is a good thing, which.

Mike [01:25:03]:
Which is part of the design.

Toliy [01:25:05]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:25:06]:
You know what I mean? Good or bad? I guess time will tell, you know what I'm saying? But time won't tell. Time will tell. It is what it is. Right. But nonetheless, you should try to examine those things because you might be living out a very specific destiny that is not part of the free will of choice, where you can choose where you want to be.

Toliy [01:25:32]:
Do you think that. Yeah, like, I guess the thing is that a lot of people live their lives by the things they want. Right. And that kind of controls them.

Mike [01:25:42]:
Correct.

Toliy [01:25:43]:
Do you think that most people get to a point where they have a choice in the matter at one point or another?

Mike [01:25:50]:
Yeah, I think they get glimpses and they get chances. People get chances whether or not they slow down and actually look at those chances. Like Socrates said, don't just double up on the truth, just fall over and just, you know, pick yourself up and keep going. Examine what you stumbled upon, see where this is coming from or why this is happening. You know what I mean? To make proper decisions for the future. A lot of times we just pick ourselves up, don't examine it, keep going.

Toliy [01:26:18]:
To the next thing.

Mike [01:26:19]:
The next thing, which is then shows us that we're not maybe yet capable. Able. Right.

Toliy [01:26:27]:
But it's, I guess, yeah. I mean, for that deduction. Yeah, it always comes back to, like, that everybody is actually, every person is exactly where they have. They need to be at that specific point in their lives. But tell the.

Mike [01:26:39]:
To the people that I suffer. Right.

Toliy [01:26:41]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:26:42]:
Right now, like you're saying, okay, cool, like, the person that at their job right now, and they hate their job, you're gonna say that to their face? Like, hey, bro, I know you're complaining about your job, you hate your job, but, bro, tell you the truth, you're supposed to be here. You don't deserve anything else but this.

Toliy [01:27:00]:
Yeah, it's definitely.

Mike [01:27:02]:
It's hard to hear.

Toliy [01:27:03]:
It's hard to hear. Yeah, hard to hear.

Mike [01:27:05]:
And they're gonna fight you.

Toliy [01:27:07]:
And I mean, they will for sure.

Mike [01:27:08]:
They're gonna say, what the fuck you talking about, Archie? I don't deserve this. I don't deserve this type of treatment. Deserve more.

Toliy [01:27:14]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:27:16]:
So without self examination and examining that, what? Or just being sad. A lot of times people subject themselves to a very long time period of suffering in time.

Toliy [01:27:26]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:27:27]:
But it's part of it. It's part of the design.

Toliy [01:27:40]:
Yeah, it is part of design. It's appropriate, but it's definitely hard to hear. And, you know, being on both sides where I was like, I realized suffering is great is. Yeah, it's shit. Then I realize it's great.

Mike [01:27:53]:
Yeah.

Toliy [01:27:53]:
In the moments where my ego gets challenged, I can't apply that.

Mike [01:27:56]:
That's right. What?

Toliy [01:27:57]:
I know, because I'm already compromised.

Mike [01:27:58]:
That's right.

Toliy [01:27:59]:
You know, so it's like. Yeah, it's. It's amazing. It's never ending.

Mike [01:28:04]:
Learning ops, you know, that's a compliment.

Toliy [01:28:07]:
It doesn't feel like it in the moment once you come out of it.

Mike [01:28:09]:
Yeah.

Toliy [01:28:09]:
About like, you're like.

Mike [01:28:10]:
Yeah.

Toliy [01:28:10]:
I mean, like, you know, the ego is the ego.

Mike [01:28:14]:
The ego is the ego. And it ought to suffer with you.

Toliy [01:28:19]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:28:20]:
Until you get rid of it, you know?

Toliy [01:28:22]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:28:22]:
And then you can liberate yourself. I know.

Toliy [01:28:27]:
Or limit the times that it does control you. Yeah, try to.

Mike [01:28:31]:
Yeah.

Toliy [01:28:33]:
It'S hard to fucking, you know, know everything or no, 100% or predict when you.

Mike [01:28:38]:
Should you not strive to live an examined life.

Toliy [01:28:40]:
You should. Yeah, yeah. But you should also probably, like you say, you don't expect to hit a thousand bad. A thousand.

Mike [01:28:46]:
No, no. That's. That's not an expression of self love, which is also important. Which we also discussed during our podcast. I don't know the number, but self love and the form of it. Right. Where we also discussed the discipline is dead.

Toliy [01:28:59]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:28:59]:
You know what I mean? A lot of people.

Toliy [01:29:01]:
We're gonna reinvent all this nonsense that they've been putting on us.

Mike [01:29:04]:
Yes.

Toliy [01:29:04]:
For these past generations, 100%.

Mike [01:29:06]:
We're gonna dispel all this mythbusters. And, yeah, enough is enough.

Toliy [01:29:11]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:29:11]:
They held us hostage for way too long, you know what I mean? And it's not the fucking illuminati or some fucking motherfucker. That's rich. That motherfucker is suffering more than you think.

Toliy [01:29:21]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:29:21]:
If you some conspiracy theorist, your feelings will be heard during this podcast.

Toliy [01:29:25]:
Yeah, we're not conspiracy theorists.

Mike [01:29:27]:
Yeah, we got no time for that shit.

Toliy [01:29:28]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:29:29]:
You know what I mean? All right. That was great.

Transcript source: Provided by creator in RSS feed: download file