45. Discipline vs Self-Love: Where is the balance?

Denis [00:00:00]:
On this week's episode, would you want.

Mike [00:00:01]:
To be ruled by discipline?

Joe [00:00:03]:
I think having structure and discipline in your life is good for you, Mike. If you knew you couldn't keep that promise, then don't make it. Give me the truth.

Eldar [00:00:10]:
I'm giving you the truth.

Joe [00:00:11]:
That's where discipline comes in, when the mind says no, because it's not satisfactory. Especially when you're doing good things for yourself and you're doing positive stuff. But it's like. It's a challenge and it's laziness and it's content. Those are things. Exercising, eating right, doing all these things, that's discipline, bro.

Denis [00:00:31]:
I say you stop fucking around and just do the experiment. At this point, it's been like, six.

Mike [00:00:34]:
Well, no, yeah, but I'm not there yet. I think you agree with me on that.

Eldar [00:00:37]:
No, no, he's not ready.

Denis [00:00:39]:
You do the thing that you guys like to do, which is talk about.

Joe [00:00:41]:
It for three years, and then maybe.

Mike [00:00:42]:
I mean, it might be 30 years, bro.

Eldar [00:00:44]:
Yeah.

Joe [00:00:44]:
This is the best version of Micah I've ever seen.

Mike [00:00:57]:
We all have. I don't know how many hundreds, let's just say hundreds, maybe thousands of rocks individually that we have not picked up and seen what's actually inside or underneath those rocks.

Joe [00:01:09]:
Okay.

Mike [00:01:09]:
We're walking around under the rolling impression on hundreds of things, potentially maybe thousands, you know? And I think because we said to ourselves that we actually know what's underneath that rock, we never have to look at it again, and we just forgot about it. But if you look in the baggage claim, there's hundreds, then for all of us there, we're all under a lot of wrong impressions here. So that's why this is just one example of it. But I think we all carry those things, you know?

Joe [00:01:38]:
Sure. I think you're always learning, continuing to learn, continuing to improve. Yeah, I'm aware of those rocks.

Eldar [00:01:44]:
Yeah.

Joe [00:01:45]:
But I don't push them away and.

Mike [00:01:46]:
Say that I know we're not aware of those are the more dangerous ones because you already think you. It's like, you know, just give.

Joe [00:01:53]:
Give me a small rock example. Just give me one.

Mike [00:01:56]:
Sure. Let's say you, like, I can't. Nothing comes to mind, but let's just say, like, you've been playing basketball in your little community.

Joe [00:02:04]:
Sure.

Mike [00:02:04]:
You think your little community is the world. And you're like, yo, I'm the best fucking ball player out here. Nobody touched me. And you come out into real world, and you realize that you have no idea what's going on, but in your head you were like, yo, I'm the best in the fucking world.

Joe [00:02:18]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:02:18]:
And how many times that happened to everybody that they think that their best.

Eldar [00:02:22]:
You can think. You can even think that that world is your world. So you are the best in your world.

Mike [00:02:26]:
In your world, right.

Joe [00:02:27]:
Never leaving that.

Eldar [00:02:28]:
Yeah. If you never leave it. Yeah.

Mike [00:02:30]:
Yeah. But I'm. It's hard. I don't have, like, a really great.

Eldar [00:02:33]:
Example, but I understand what, you understand what you're trying to accomplish with the example. 100%.

Joe [00:02:37]:
It's a good example. And, like, I understand it and make sense, but I'm trying to, like, I'm trying to put into realistic terms because, because I'm going back to, I'm going back to self love, accountability, responsibility, responsible. And I think that these people, like, this situation has, has the, at least the know how to just hear that. Hopefully she's listening. And when she hears that, she questions herself, you know, does she have self love for herself? Does she understand what that is? You know, does she have the ability to see. To see both sides of things? Are you open? Are you willing to think differently than how you think and think? Are you. Are you able to change? Are you one minded? Are you, are you close minded? Are you stubborn? Do you make it harder for yourself to create, to exist with another person, start a family? Like, some people hit a wall, hit that wall hard, fall and go back the other way, and they turn away from actually moving forward.

Mike [00:03:41]:
Yeah.

Joe [00:03:41]:
And that's, that's why I said when people get held back is because it's easier to go that way than it is to confront, fix, change, improve. Tardy.

Mike [00:03:50]:
Right.

Joe [00:03:51]:
People.

Mike [00:03:52]:
Because it's also, I think there's no really blueprint for it or platform to talk about it. And if you're getting advice from people that you're trying to solve an issue, the people might not be competent given advice, and you might not know what to do with that advice. So it's.

Joe [00:04:05]:
We're not all on the same level, that's for sure.

Mike [00:04:07]:
No, yeah, but I think that's, I think that's very, that's the thing. It's very hard.

Joe [00:04:12]:
It's very hard.

Mike [00:04:13]:
And. Oh, and, you know, it's very hard.

Eldar [00:04:16]:
But what are you suggesting for her?

Joe [00:04:18]:
At the bare minimum? I think people have a. Enough sense. Common sense. Yeah, I'm assuming. Yeah, there's a bare minimum. You got this far in life, you have some type of comprehension to do what?

Eldar [00:04:29]:
To make the right choice.

Joe [00:04:29]:
Not to make the right choice.

Eldar [00:04:30]:
So to do what?

Joe [00:04:31]:
But to understand that that confrontation, that issue that's. That's now over her head. She has to see it as, you know, that the solution isn't to convince this guy to see what she sees for the life to be beautiful.

Eldar [00:04:47]:
Yeah.

Joe [00:04:47]:
You know, and for life.

Eldar [00:04:48]:
But if she. If that's the way she. That's the world that she lives in and she created this little world for herself and. And that's the only way out. That's what she sees.

Joe [00:04:56]:
She sees that. But that's not the only way out.

Eldar [00:04:58]:
No, I get that. You know, I mean, just like it just like his example. It's not the only world. That's his world.

Joe [00:05:02]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:05:02]:
This person lives in. Sure. And a lot of times I think we do live in particular bubbles of our own world.

Joe [00:05:07]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:05:08]:
Right now, understandings where our own understanding is clouded is like you said, you're constantly replaying this little loop of like, this is how it's supposed to be.

Joe [00:05:16]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:05:16]:
I mean, I just had an example of like, I was an impression, I want to do something good for my parents and.

Eldar [00:05:21]:
Oh yeah.

Mike [00:05:21]:
Which is to retire them at a young age.

Eldar [00:05:23]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:05:23]:
And it's funny cuz I go on Instagram and I see like this fucking. These clowns and they post things. Yo, you want to see like the real flags is not the cars, not the money is retiring your parents. Like now I see, I'm like, this is so fucking stupid.

Eldar [00:05:36]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:05:37]:
But for a certain time that was a goal that I had. I put myself through fucking crazy work working like OD and the repercussions and the consequence of it. And they were terrible. Like, I did a huge disservice to myself. I did a huge disservice to my parents, you know. But I was under impression, like, yo, like, I'm doing the right thing. Like, retire my parents. Like, yo, thank them for the, like, the opportunity they gave me.

Mike [00:06:02]:
Give them a good life. And now what?

Joe [00:06:04]:
You see things differently and that's a good progression, right?

Mike [00:06:07]:
No, but I'm saying is that I was under the wrong impression. I had a, you know, again, I thought it sound. It felt good. I felt like I was doing the right thing.

Eldar [00:06:14]:
Right.

Joe [00:06:14]:
But can I ask you a question? When we all fall back on the term love, everyone has the ability to be loved and to love, right? Getting to kind of to Vermeer.

Eldar [00:06:27]:
Rameer?

Joe [00:06:27]:
Rameer, yeah. Getting to Rameer's point. Like, you know, when you think he's the ambassador of love and vice versa. Is that what he was saying? They're beggars, right? Beggars because they haven't really figured out self love yet, which, which makes sense, right? So now, you know, you could also challenge your own self love, you know, your own abilities to make these. You're guiding through these kind of things that you thought one way, thinking another way. The love you have internally also changes your decision making and as you've seen things differently, moving on. But, like, you know, love will, love will prevail. It always does.

Joe [00:07:06]:
It helps people. Like, it should help this lady in a situation. If she truly does love this guy, her husband, and he loves her, at the end of the day, they're gonna have a beautiful life because love's there.

Eldar [00:07:19]:
Not if the attachments to the other thing. Well, attachments are people separate, Joe, and go their separate ways. Yeah. The fact that they claim that they.

Joe [00:07:27]:
Have love, I agree, but so then you really know. Yeah. And then you really know what's up.

Eldar [00:07:32]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:07:33]:
What I also, you know, we spoke about this with love, and I think it also relates to love because I think, I'm not sure if you guys agree, but love is a fleeting thing, you know? You know, at some points, you're in a relationship and you have love between yourselves and yourself in that person, and then that love leaves, you know, like, you're in a fight or you're nasty to each other or, like, you know, like, you don't act out of love and the love leaves. And then, you know, if you stay together, you fix things and it comes back that love, that actual feeling of love. And I think with self love, it also is a fleeting thing, because a lot of the times we don't know that we have a choice in the matter because we're not attentive enough and we're not aware enough. So, like, what I'm saying is that we don't, we're not careful with what we engage in, and, and it might not be self love.

Eldar [00:08:34]:
Like, it's not a display of it.

Mike [00:08:36]:
It's not display self love. Like, two days ago, I hit you up to play cs, and I was laying there and I was like, damn, I'm tired, you know? But part of me wants to go and play, you know, maybe because I already said, like, yo, we're gonna play. But also the part of me is like, yo, but I'm tired. I'm exhausted. I don't want to go downstairs, you know? So I'm like, what do I do here? Do I self love or do I force myself to do something that I might not really want because I am tired? So I'm not extending my compassion towards myself to say, you know what? I actually am tired and I'm not going to go do this even though I want to, but I know what I actually need. And I think a lot of times we go against ourselves because we're not so aware in the moment of what is actually we're doing.

Eldar [00:09:25]:
That's another example of him living out a particular thing, I think.

Joe [00:09:27]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:09:28]:
Of, you know, having that rock and he just checked it. Or the brushing and teeth in the teeth thing. Yeah. Where he was, you know, he's beating himself up over not brushing at night. You know, he's laying there tired, you know, and then he gets up and does it, you know. But out of what. Right. At what cost?

Mike [00:09:42]:
Maybe. Yeah. Out of the. Yeah.

Joe [00:09:45]:
Well, I think that's more of like a discipline thing. Right. Like having a certain discipline to do things. It's not. It's not like you chose to do something that is going to take away from your sleep. Right. You brushing your teeth is more of a discipline thing rather than for me.

Mike [00:10:00]:
It'S actually lack of discipline.

Joe [00:10:02]:
Yeah, that's a lack of discipline.

Mike [00:10:05]:
But why would you. Would you want to be ruled by discipline?

Joe [00:10:09]:
Well, I think having structure. I think having structure and discipline in your life is good for you because.

Mike [00:10:17]:
What if those disciplines are not rooted in truth?

Joe [00:10:20]:
Brushing your teeth is not truth.

Mike [00:10:22]:
There is a truth.

Eldar [00:10:23]:
What do you mean?

Joe [00:10:23]:
Well, I mean brushing your teeth. Brushing his teeth is.

Eldar [00:10:26]:
What do you mean?

Joe [00:10:26]:
Is a good thing for you.

Eldar [00:10:28]:
Okay, so. So how is it not the truth then? For him it sounds like it is true.

Joe [00:10:32]:
Oh, yes. But for him to be in bed and saying I don't want to get up to brush my teeth because I'm lazy.

Eldar [00:10:37]:
Oh, he's tired.

Joe [00:10:38]:
Tired, yeah.

Eldar [00:10:39]:
Yeah.

Joe [00:10:39]:
But get comparing it to playing counter strike.

Mike [00:10:42]:
You're gonna set it.

Joe [00:10:44]:
But I'm comparing, I'm comparing two tasks here. Getting up for a minute to brush your teeth and going back to bed. Cause you will get your full 8 hours versus playing catastrike.

Mike [00:10:55]:
But the overall thing is.

Joe [00:10:57]:
Hold on, Mike. Of playing cast strike is gonna take away from more than just. It's gonna be an hour or two and you wanna do it. Cause there's a part of you that likes it, but you prioritize your sleep and you said, no, me first, and I'm gonna do it. Even though I told Joe. And now his hope's got up and he's excited to play, but he'll understand. He won't forgive me and he'll understand.

Mike [00:11:18]:
And I, especially now he knows the story.

Joe [00:11:20]:
Well, when I hear that night when the other night when you said, I'm actually in bed, forgetta is dead. You know, part of me, it was just like, oh, man, it would have been fun to play with Mike, but I accept the fact that you're choosing not to, and I'm okay with that.

Eldar [00:11:34]:
Next time, you'll be scolded. Yeah, I got it. Say, Joe.

Joe [00:11:38]:
Yes, but no.

Eldar [00:11:39]:
Come on.

Joe [00:11:43]:
I'm okay with that.

Mike [00:11:44]:
All right, cool.

Joe [00:11:44]:
You know what I mean?

Eldar [00:11:45]:
He needs a little bit scold. Look at him. He's mad deviant.

Mike [00:11:47]:
Look at his face.

Joe [00:11:48]:
Here's what I say. If you want to scold, if you want to scold, then it would be Mike. If you knew you couldn't keep that like, that promise, then don't make it unless you truly know you're gonna do it, then, like, you're leaving. You don't leave that situation open. Open. Because now you're just like. If you would have said, maybe in an hour or I'll see. It's.

Joe [00:12:13]:
It gives you the option. It gives you the opt out. But if you tell me in an hour, now you're putting it pressure on you. You're inviting me.

Mike [00:12:20]:
Now you're involved a lot of not so fun things.

Joe [00:12:23]:
It's not.

Mike [00:12:24]:
Well, to play a fun game.

Joe [00:12:25]:
Yeah, exactly. And it's. It's, you know, at the end of the day, it's not a big thing. It's counter strike.

Mike [00:12:30]:
It's not like a big thing.

Joe [00:12:31]:
We do bigger. We do bigger examples.

Mike [00:12:34]:
Yeah.

Joe [00:12:35]:
We do bigger examples of all this. It. It becomes a thing.

Mike [00:12:40]:
But the small fish, they always add up to the big fish, you know? I'm saying, if you're gonna be a slug on cs, you probably. You might be a sluggun with the girls.

Joe [00:12:48]:
What do you mean?

Mike [00:12:49]:
True to yourself.

Joe [00:12:50]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:12:51]:
And listen to yourself in the cs.

Denis [00:12:53]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:12:54]:
Yeah. You transition.

Joe [00:12:55]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:12:56]:
Yes.

Mike [00:12:56]:
Because it's a character trait.

Eldar [00:13:00]:
You don't respect yourself. Yeah.

Mike [00:13:02]:
And you know what you want to do. You're not considerate of how you feel. And you don't just disregard those things. You will continue that bad habit, those bad characteristics, in whatever that you do. That's why a small rock of playing cs or brushing your teeth, it extends to letting somebody, you know, like, clip.

Joe [00:13:19]:
You were referring to things that you don't know, though. You were talking about, like these, flipping these rocks.

Eldar [00:13:26]:
Well, this is what he just recently?

Mike [00:13:28]:
Yeah.

Joe [00:13:29]:
What do you mean, you didn't know?

Mike [00:13:30]:
I didn't know about the see us and brushing the teeth.

Joe [00:13:33]:
No, but you didn't know about, like, making decisions for yourself where, I don't know, you're making decisions for yourself. You're putting.

Mike [00:13:42]:
No, I gave you the example of retiring my parents. I thought it was a great decision. Yeah, but then it came out like, it's not so great. After. After all, I was 100% convinced I was doing the right thing.

Eldar [00:13:52]:
As he's starting to examine his life, Joe, as he's starting to examine his life and actually paying attention to what's actually going on with him, he's come to find out he's coming across a lot of things that he's doing. He's not sure why he's doing it, because they don't actually bring him pleasure.

Joe [00:14:05]:
Okay.

Eldar [00:14:05]:
That's it. That's the nutshell.

Mike [00:14:07]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:14:08]:
He's opening them up slowly. Here, here, here. He's like, why the fuck am I behaving this way? Why am I doing this? One thing can be, I want to please a friend. I want to please a girl. This one is, I want to please my parents. I want to do this for perfection because I'm a perfectionist. You know what I mean? And next thing he knows, he's like, wait a second. I'm living this type of life that is actually not a resemblance of self love.

Eldar [00:14:29]:
He's actually beating himself up over every little thing that is happening. Another example was what was making abets for me, right? One weekend where you, you know, I asked him to make some bets, right? Because I don't have the money in the app or whatever. He did it for me. And then he messed up something, and then he started beating himself up.

Joe [00:14:45]:
Over.

Eldar [00:14:45]:
He started getting, like, all flustered or whatever.

Mike [00:14:47]:
I don't remember this.

Eldar [00:14:48]:
You know what I mean? Over. Over something that he's like, elder. I realized that with myself, and I realized that, you know, I didn't want to let somebody down like you, my friend. I don't want to let you down. I don't want to fuck this up. It was a $5 bet. Even if he fucked it up. You know what I mean? It's not that serious.

Eldar [00:15:00]:
Even if he fucked it up and I didn't win the $200 or whatever, it was like, he can come to me and say, yo, this is what happened. I didn't do this on purpose. He didn't do this on purpose. But the way he is, the way he's perceiving all these things, he's beating himself up over it. You know what I mean? By wanting to be a perfectionist or good friend or get. Get approved by me or something like that. You know? You know, slowly uncovering the way he operates. These little stones that he's mentioning is he hasn't turned all them around to see that he is actually causing him a lot of pain.

Joe [00:15:30]:
Sure. I mean, it kind of sounds like listening to all that, like, maybe you get a lot of your love or you get your fulfillment through, like, validation of other people. Let's just. I'm just saying that this is how it is, you know, rather than you being validated internally through yourself and you're happy with yourself no matter what happens in this room or to your I. People around you, because anything that you project, I'm okay with your fuck ups, if you have any. But, like, I know you have to.

Eldar [00:16:03]:
Have a good reason for it.

Joe [00:16:04]:
I know you're bringing. I know. I know you bring it to the table. And, like, I. I agree to participate with, you know, with this. With this transaction. Like, you're my friend.

Mike [00:16:16]:
But the thing is, you might agree, but I. Now, I don't agree. Now, I'm not okay with doing those things. I know you're gonna extend the compassion, but I'm not okay to put myself through that torture, I guess, you know, extreme word. But it's ridiculousness to call it, probably. It's ridiculous what I do, what I would. I put myself through in those things, you know? And it doesn't line up with the life that I'd like to live.

Eldar [00:16:42]:
You, you're a good friend. You know, you can accept that about. Not a lot of people will, you know what I'm saying? Especially when he says, like, hey, I'm gonna go out there into the world, and now I have to face a stranger who's not so accepting, who's not so compassionate and a friend like Joe. What's it gonna be?

Joe [00:16:57]:
Well, as long as the truth is there. Your truth, yourself.

Mike [00:17:01]:
Well, see, that's the thing. My truth and the truth is both very different things, and it's. That's what I think is very important to distinguish between.

Eldar [00:17:11]:
Yeah, because they might be living in a bubble of his truth.

Joe [00:17:13]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:17:14]:
Which is not the truth.

Joe [00:17:15]:
Sure.

Mike [00:17:16]:
Yeah. And I think that's. That's a huge part of love. Self love.

Joe [00:17:22]:
Sure. So then maybe. Maybe instead of focusing on truth, then you could just focus on making it easier and simpler, just loving yourself and accepting, being wrong sometimes learning from that, you know, you've done some of that.

Eldar [00:17:36]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:17:36]:
Yeah.

Joe [00:17:37]:
Acknowledged it. You know, it just. It makes things better when you're give back to give to yourself before we are putting our hands out for anything. Like, we obviously want you to be happy internally. So rather than focusing on the truth, know that, like, I will be humbled many times over from here on out, my truth is going to constantly sway, my opinions are going to change and the way I feel about things now are going to be different five to 1015 years from now. Move, keep progressing. But, yeah, just.

Eldar [00:18:07]:
It's a good mindset, but you have to be able to keep that.

Mike [00:18:09]:
Yeah.

Joe [00:18:11]:
Love you.

Mike [00:18:12]:
Remember to stay always humble.

Joe [00:18:13]:
Is it hard, but is it hard to.

Eldar [00:18:14]:
You're not gonna bet a thousand, right?

Joe [00:18:16]:
Is it hard to love yourself? Do you find it hard to love yourself?

Mike [00:18:19]:
It's not. It's not a. No, no.

Eldar [00:18:22]:
Choose to love yourself, right?

Mike [00:18:23]:
It's not. It's not hard to love yourself, especially now. It's becoming more and more as I'm understanding what I was doing was not loving myself. But no, I don't think it's hard to love yourself.

Joe [00:18:36]:
You specifically.

Mike [00:18:37]:
Me specifically? Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, me specifically? No, I don't think it's hard to love yourself because now that you identify identifying things, I'm also eager to identify more things. I have a desire to identify, identify more things. I have good reasons for it, and I also know that I have people around me that can help me differentiate between the two. So I have.

Eldar [00:18:59]:
And most importantly, you like it.

Joe [00:19:01]:
That's good.

Mike [00:19:01]:
And I do like it.

Eldar [00:19:02]:
So most importantly, you like it.

Joe [00:19:03]:
So, you know, there's a lot of small things that are the big problems in life. That's what you're acknowledging.

Mike [00:19:09]:
Right. I'm saying that as a general statement, not just for me, I think in.

Joe [00:19:12]:
General, for the masses. So this girl, getting back to this girl, does she just have a bunch of small rocks that she hasn't flipped yet and this situation that she's asking the question.

Eldar [00:19:25]:
Yeah, I think that in general, I think that she's created a particular vision in her mind that she's gotten herself attached to, you know what I mean? And she's very attached to because of the fact that she's probably suffering from those little things everywhere else that she sees. Right.

Joe [00:19:38]:
Mm hmm.

Eldar [00:19:40]:
I think she's under impression. She might be under the impression that that is the Valhalla. That's the ultimate. That's gonna solve all her problems.

Joe [00:19:47]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:19:48]:
Right.

Joe [00:19:48]:
And that's. Go ahead.

Eldar [00:19:50]:
Yeah. Which I don't agree with. Yeah, yeah. That's not gonna. That's not gonna happen.

Joe [00:19:54]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:19:54]:
You know what I mean? Ultimately, even if he was in agreeance to. Okay, let's do this. Let's start our own school and. Right. Let's start the homestead.

Mike [00:20:02]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:20:02]:
Do the kids domain. Right. Even if that happens, does not mean that she's gonna carry over those problems to her in that. In that sphere as well. Right.

Mike [00:20:10]:
Yeah.

Joe [00:20:11]:
I feel like.

Eldar [00:20:12]:
I think there's different paths to displaying true love to your partner, true love to yourself, and true love to your kids, and it doesn't have to be in the forest. I truly believe that. Right. Like, I mean, I read those books. I love those books.

Mike [00:20:24]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:20:24]:
Catherine, my wife, has not read those books, and we've been together for almost 14 years.

Mike [00:20:28]:
Yeah. Yeah.

Eldar [00:20:29]:
You understand? However, that does not stop me from doing shit by those books, behaving in those way, believing in those things, and still living my life in accordance to the truth that I've discovered. Nor is Catherine also holding me back from enjoying those things and living a particular way. I do still, what I love. You know what I mean? And it does not interfere with our love in our relationship.

Mike [00:20:51]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:20:51]:
And I obviously wish that and hope that who's listening is. Has the ability to kind of come to that same kind of conclusion. Those people. Those same people that we talked about, the politics. Right. Even Joe's example, right, where they were used to butt heads during pandemic because of politics and stuff, but they were able to put aside and say, you know, what? What is politics? You know? And they realize that there's something greater that unites them.

Mike [00:21:14]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:21:15]:
Right. Versus something smaller that divides them. Yeah. Now it's just a matter of choice.

Mike [00:21:20]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:21:20]:
Yeah.

Joe [00:21:21]:
Because when you shut off all electronics and you're tuned out from all that and it's just you two gigs up. That's it.

Eldar [00:21:27]:
That's it.

Joe [00:21:27]:
And if you still choose to be there because you love that person.

Eldar [00:21:30]:
Yeah. Yeah.

Joe [00:21:31]:
That's the most important.

Eldar [00:21:32]:
If you love that politics. Right. If you love the politics, what you do is you break up.

Joe [00:21:36]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:21:36]:
You know what? I'm gonna go my separate way.

Mike [00:21:38]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:21:38]:
And, you know, like Joel said, love will prevail or won't. Right. So we have to challenge the individual. Will pose this question as to say that if you actually wrote this out. Right. You actually meant it, that you actually dearly love this person.

Mike [00:21:50]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:21:51]:
You only have one choice. Yeah. Is to be compassionate, be patient. Right. And this is a long term thing.

Mike [00:21:59]:
Yeah. Keep this playing love.

Eldar [00:22:00]:
Yeah. Keep this plain love, and, you know, keep slowly moving forward. Right. Without frustration, without butting heads without challenging, constantly, without pressuring. Right. That's not a display of love.

Mike [00:22:11]:
Yeah.

Joe [00:22:11]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:22:12]:
Ultimately.

Joe [00:22:13]:
And like you said, the slow and steady like wins the race. Jesus. Going out to the desert, right, where you.

Eldar [00:22:17]:
Seven years everybody.

Joe [00:22:20]:
So tell us, I mean if this lady's listening, chip away slowly and go at it. Go at it where maybe down the line things could adapt or change or be influenced, you know? But.

Eldar [00:22:34]:
Well because she's, she's also facing a really serious challenge. An individual who's probably an adult. Right. I would probably say that he's probably in his let's say late twenties to thirties guess. Right. Yeah. Who has established their own worldview. Right.

Eldar [00:22:47]:
And obviously there's a reason why he established that worldview and the way it works for him. So you don't just undo that with one, one set of, you know, a conversation or whatever. It's a long steady process but it's not going to be won by two years of butting heads. It's not, it's not. I would say I have to be one with five years of creating love.

Mike [00:23:06]:
Yeah.

Joe [00:23:07]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:23:08]:
Right. Then to show like, hey, like, you know, this is what I'm prop. This is what like it's almost like it's not the kids that she has to teach love through her school, it's the husband that she has to teach love through her actions and not the school. Put him through the school. Right. Through her love of school.

Mike [00:23:25]:
Right.

Eldar [00:23:25]:
Show that love. Show the display of that that you able to love yourself and love the other individual. Right. And then you're gonna say, you see that? How do you feel? Great.

Mike [00:23:33]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:23:33]:
Let's do this without kids. I mean set an example.

Mike [00:23:36]:
I mean. Yeah. I think she has to act in accordance with love and truth.

Eldar [00:23:40]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:23:40]:
And those things, they exist outside of locations or times or anything.

Eldar [00:23:44]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:23:44]:
Right. If she's saying she loves them dearly.

Eldar [00:23:47]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:23:48]:
Then those words, they mean a lot. Correct that. Then you can't put time or location and if you line up with those truths that Anastasia speaks about.

Eldar [00:23:57]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:23:58]:
You know, that philosophy is very rooted in.

Eldar [00:24:01]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:24:01]:
You have, you have to. Yeah. I guess I'd say you have to.

Eldar [00:24:04]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:24:05]:
Live in accordance with those things.

Eldar [00:24:06]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:24:07]:
Or, you know, or what's gonna happen?

Eldar [00:24:10]:
He's gonna create a rift that you gotta go separate ways.

Mike [00:24:11]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:24:12]:
That's also an option. I mean obviously we as people have those options but we're holding on to the anchor that she gave us which is dearly loves.

Mike [00:24:19]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:24:19]:
And if she wants to continue to do the love that's yeah. You have to examine what does that actually mean?

Mike [00:24:25]:
And I think, yeah.

Eldar [00:24:26]:
I mean, butting heads and having disagreements and having pressure put on one person or the other, absolutely nothing.

Mike [00:24:33]:
I think that if she does live in accordance with those truths and love, she'll act, she'll get what she wants.

Eldar [00:24:39]:
Yes.

Mike [00:24:40]:
And it might actually not be this kin thing at all, but she will be just as happy and just love.

Eldar [00:24:45]:
Correct.

Mike [00:24:45]:
It'll be great for both of them.

Eldar [00:24:47]:
And ultimately, Anastasia did make that suggestion. Right. She did say, hey, hey, be careful coming out to the woods real quick and doing all this stuff. You know what I mean? The most important thing, the humble thing and the noble thing to do is to clean up the mess that you've made.

Mike [00:24:58]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:24:59]:
That you created right here at your house.

Mike [00:25:00]:
That's right.

Eldar [00:25:01]:
She did clean up that mess. She did say that.

Mike [00:25:03]:
Yeah. Yeah.

Eldar [00:25:05]:
You know, so, yeah.

Mike [00:25:08]:
Because it's the right thing to do.

Eldar [00:25:10]:
It is the right thing to do.

Joe [00:25:11]:
So attachments have a lot to do with self love. At the end of the day, then.

Eldar [00:25:17]:
What happened, what we talked about a lot is the wrong perceptions. We live under the wrong perceptions all the time, and those wrong perceptions are right now happening right now as we speak. They're causing us stress and pain that we're not even aware of because we're used to it. We've been used to it for so long. Right. We can call them discipline. You use that word, right?

Mike [00:25:36]:
Yes.

Eldar [00:25:37]:
Right. Here's Joe like a robot. 08:00 on a dot with his toothbrush and toothpaste. Ba ba ba ba ba ba ba ba. You know what I'm saying? Little that he knows that he twisted his ankle earlier and he needs to rest it as much as possible. You know what I mean by his discipline is continues to tell them you have to stand on your ankle and hurt it even more, but you need to finish brushing your teeth.

Joe [00:25:57]:
Oh, I've learned, I've learned the damage I've done through discipline.

Eldar [00:26:01]:
Yeah.

Joe [00:26:02]:
100% after recently.

Eldar [00:26:04]:
Yeah. You have your own story about that. Yeah, yeah.

Mike [00:26:09]:
The thing is, like the, and that's.

Eldar [00:26:11]:
That'S an ex, a small example of, a big example that you could probably bring up of the impression that you used to live by, which was not serving you.

Mike [00:26:19]:
Yeah. No, absolutely.

Joe [00:26:20]:
You know, especially hearing it from friends and loved ones.

Eldar [00:26:23]:
Yeah, yeah.

Joe [00:26:24]:
You know, family and friends.

Eldar [00:26:26]:
Yeah. You see, like, you know, the people that are in your camp, sometimes you can't even hear, let alone yourself.

Mike [00:26:32]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:26:33]:
Yeah. You know what I mean? So you under a web of lies that you've created because of some kind of perceptions. Because those rocks, they all add up to one big existence, which is yours. You know what I mean?

Mike [00:26:44]:
Yeah. See the small rocks also, they're really huge. You know? You know, they're icebergs. They're huge. You know why? Also because the big rocks are like, okay, you have your friends, you have your family, you have your job. Those are major things in your life, right? Those things stand out. But there's also millions, not millions, but there's hundreds of small things that don't stand out that are not so huge. So they have a quantity.

Mike [00:27:07]:
Game over the, over the big ones.

Eldar [00:27:10]:
And those are the ones you live out on your own, in your own head.

Mike [00:27:12]:
Yes.

Eldar [00:27:13]:
You don't even share. Those are the ones you said you lay down or you by yourself at home, you're doing some weird shit. Well, yeah, everybody.

Mike [00:27:20]:
Weird scenarios, fears, doubts, all kinds of nonsense.

Joe [00:27:25]:
Yeah, I mean, you guys heard the term like dance like no one's watching.

Eldar [00:27:28]:
Yeah.

Joe [00:27:29]:
So, yeah, like the theory behind that is not giving a fuck about the outside world and what they think or how they feel about what you're doing at the time. You're enjoying the music and you're enjoying your dance and you don't care about any type of comment or criticism about it, even if, you know, it looks ridiculous. You know, you're not like the best dancer, yada, yada, yada. You're enjoying yourself, enjoying your life. And I think we all live with the, with the constant, you know, expectations of other people's, how you're viewed and, you know, how you're, how you engage with the world and other people. And instead of always kind of trying to bring it back, focus on yourself, focus internal, be happy and content with this and go about the world like dance like no one's watching and you'll kind of like this rameer.

Eldar [00:28:25]:
Yeah. I think you'll be okay with going with whichever way you want to spin it, blaming, like whichever way you want to call him. He'll be okay.

Joe [00:28:32]:
Okay. Yeah, exactly.

Eldar [00:28:34]:
You know, if he's not in the.

Joe [00:28:35]:
Gigs up this, that's the point. I'm trying to. Alright, like he, he walks in.

Eldar [00:28:39]:
Yes.

Joe [00:28:40]:
Eating chips while we're having a podcast. Like, yeah, vaping. It's like, you know, but he's, he's living his, his world like, yeah, it's like, it's kind of like he's dancing like no one's watching and he don't care. Yeah, which he walks out, comes in late, walks in walks out before it's over and. Yeah, he has things to do, and that's fine.

Eldar [00:29:00]:
Yeah.

Joe [00:29:03]:
And what if you, like, for me to scold them?

Eldar [00:29:05]:
John didn't like that.

Mike [00:29:07]:
Yeah, we can scold him.

Joe [00:29:08]:
No, but when he first walked in, I was like, who is this Jesus Christ?

Eldar [00:29:15]:
But he quickly grew on you, and.

Joe [00:29:16]:
He grew on me. Yeah, and I. Because I gave it. Because I was able to give him that moment. It was good, you know?

Denis [00:29:20]:
It was good watching his smoke clouds slowly enter your space.

Joe [00:29:26]:
But then I was. I was like, you know, if he's a friend of Eldar, I gave him a pass. Let me hear him out. And I would like to see him again, you know? Go on. We'll have, like, next time, either I'll tune in and listen, or maybe we'll be in the same room together again, you know, and that's. I think that's a good way to, like, you know, to take that, to help. To help you move forward and learn from all these things that we're trying to figure out. Like these, you know, all the uncertain, but.

Eldar [00:29:55]:
Yeah.

Joe [00:29:57]:
You know, because probably, like, the old me or the years ago, it would have been, like, had a mentality, had a certain conception and would have put a grudge and would have had. Put him in a category and just like.

Eldar [00:30:08]:
Yeah. Been, you know, you would have missed out.

Joe [00:30:10]:
Would have missed out.

Eldar [00:30:11]:
Motor. Missed out. Yeah, because you would have turned yourself off versus being kind of open minded to what's actually happening. But, you know, the out shit is usually nutty Joe.

Joe [00:30:18]:
Yeah, of course.

Eldar [00:30:18]:
You know what I'm saying? So you kind of.

Joe [00:30:20]:
You're friends with tons of mutants, you know.

Eldar [00:30:22]:
Yeah.

Joe [00:30:23]:
And I have a friend like that.

Eldar [00:30:24]:
Yeah.

Joe [00:30:24]:
Who always embodies the mutants.

Eldar [00:30:26]:
Yeah.

Joe [00:30:27]:
You know, and everyone's like, these are the black sheeps of all these different situations.

Eldar [00:30:31]:
Yeah.

Joe [00:30:31]:
And he's friends with all of them.

Eldar [00:30:32]:
Yeah.

Joe [00:30:33]:
And I always, like, look down and people call this guy shot for being the way he is, but to be honest, like, this guy is the most. He's like, he said to him, you don't have a bad bone in your body because, like, he's always, like, chill. Like, wants to be friends with everyone. He. He includes everyone.

Eldar [00:30:50]:
Yeah.

Joe [00:30:51]:
And, like, you can't knock that.

Eldar [00:30:53]:
Yeah.

Joe [00:30:53]:
And the guy is loved by everyone. You know, it's a very good vibe. Even though when you're looking at from the outside.

Eldar [00:31:00]:
Yeah.

Joe [00:31:00]:
Like, weirdo strange, you know, stay away. But, you know, I love being around that guy.

Eldar [00:31:06]:
Yeah.

Joe [00:31:06]:
And sometimes you gotta deal with the people around him.

Eldar [00:31:10]:
And if you.

Joe [00:31:11]:
If you're not used to it, like, you know, expose yourself as much as possible to the things that make you feel uncomfortable, and then eventually you'll realize you're uncomfortable because of your own self things, you know, your own thing.

Eldar [00:31:23]:
You've been struggling with that a lot and all.

Joe [00:31:25]:
No, I haven't been. I mean, I definitely, over the eight years of being in the fire department.

Eldar [00:31:29]:
They put you on some shit, right?

Joe [00:31:31]:
I just gone. I was going through lots of these, like, roller coasters, you know, and I learned a lot about myself and certain things. And, you know, I aim to improve. I aim to change.

Eldar [00:31:42]:
Yeah.

Joe [00:31:43]:
And, you know, I could look at my old self and say where I am now?

Mike [00:31:45]:
And I.

Joe [00:31:46]:
And I like the newer me, you know, I. And I want to continue to do even birth. Yeah.

Eldar [00:31:53]:
To that one and be.

Joe [00:31:54]:
Yeah. And let it grow and become even better.

Eldar [00:31:56]:
That's awesome.

Joe [00:31:57]:
Yeah, great.

Eldar [00:31:58]:
That's great.

Joe [00:31:58]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:31:59]:
Wow.

Joe [00:32:00]:
So I hope. I hope to wrap things up. I hope that this girl can see the light or just maybe just pull back a little bit and then just put love in the driver's seat and go slow.

Eldar [00:32:12]:
Yeah. No, we challenge her through love here.

Joe [00:32:15]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:32:15]:
You know what I mean? If you actually love your husband, right, or your boyfriend, whoever this person is to you, tap into that, ask yourself, what is it actually? You mean by when you say that, right. And do the things, your visions or your attachments to a particular vision, like the Anastasia's vision. Right. Is actually causing a rift or some kind of thing between that, right. Because the greatest thing you can do is experience love in the first place.

Mike [00:32:38]:
Oh, yeah.

Eldar [00:32:39]:
You know what I mean? So if your attachments to anything in life doesn't matter what truth it is, right, it's causing rift between love might be doing something wrong. That's how I see it.

Mike [00:32:51]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:32:52]:
You know what I'm saying? And I think that we had that without the discussion when you were. This is exactly what I told you in a lot. I remember in the kitchen when you guys had that, those tips about politics or something. Guys.

Joe [00:33:02]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:33:02]:
Yes. Something much greater here. Much greater.

Mike [00:33:05]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:33:05]:
You know what I'm saying?

Mike [00:33:06]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:33:06]:
And they're like, yeah, you're right. Like, what are we talking about here? You know what I'm saying? Because love overpowers all this nonsense. Now, I said, you know, fast forward and try to play it back right? Now, if you go, you know, put into your mind right now where you're gonna divorce this guy or go your separate ways. Right. See how it feels when you remove love out of the equation, you're no longer loved, and you don't have the ability to love anymore. Right. That person. See what happens.

Eldar [00:33:31]:
It's a very dark place. It's a very dark place to not be loved and not to love back.

Joe [00:33:36]:
Because it's a, it's hell because when you, you try to pull the ejection cord from that to think that nothing get better and you're gonna have something else that's gonna be better than that and you don't have to deal with that. You're gonna hit a similar or a different wall. That's. You're gonna put you in the same boat, you know, to try to, like, run away from and not confront the real thing there where you're just being in a loving relationship is work. It's. It's challenging, but it's gonna be the most rewarding. Rewarding.

Eldar [00:34:13]:
Yeah.

Joe [00:34:14]:
Yeah, it is. You know, and some, and some hands that are dealt are gonna have shittier, you know, gonna be shittier cards that you might pick up and someone, I pick up a pocket. Pocket aces and, like, and be able to confident all in.

Eldar [00:34:32]:
Yeah.

Joe [00:34:33]:
You know, not a lot of issues, but, like, I've been throwing a bunch of curveballs in my life, and I navigate around. Some. Some of them hit me in the head, you know, I mean, I got to deal with some, some that are bigger than others. And, you know, like, I kind of went into, I kind of like having lots of structure and, like, try not to fail as much as possible and these things. But then I I realized, like, as much as you try to control things, it's not within your control sometimes. And there's much bigger things than you and your issues and, you know, just, I'm just very grateful for health, life, you know, getting another crack at things. Yeah. And, you know, I definitely see the world through a different lens now.

Eldar [00:35:14]:
I was excited to hear when I say, hey, Joey, you want to play counter strike with us? You didn't hesitate to say, absolutely. Yeah, that was awesome. Like, I, right there gave me a definition that Joe was tasting sense of freedom finally. And he's finally, like, waking up to, like, yell to himself, yeah. Which was awesome. You know what I mean? That was very, that's very good. Proud of you, Joe.

Denis [00:35:32]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:35:33]:
In that sense, it was great.

Joe [00:35:34]:
Thanks.

Mike [00:35:34]:
Sorry I let you down a couple days ago.

Joe [00:35:36]:
Yeah, I forgive you, but I won't forget.

Eldar [00:35:42]:
I knew it. I told you.

Mike [00:35:43]:
I told you.

Eldar [00:35:48]:
He's gonna try to throw his, throw you into that structure. Box structure. Yeah, and that. Yeah, that's it. You know, like, it's, you know, talk about living free, right? You talking about that structure where sometimes you just try to control everything and it's not freedom, you know, when you try to control. Yeah.

Mike [00:36:03]:
You actually realize that you don't have any control.

Eldar [00:36:05]:
Yeah, yeah.

Mike [00:36:06]:
And when you actually think you have no control, you have actually full control. It's the paradox.

Eldar [00:36:10]:
It's the paradox of it all.

Mike [00:36:11]:
It's the paradox. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Joe [00:36:14]:
There's a guy now who. Who tries to control everything, even for the things you even eat to everything. And I just look at him, and I was like, I feel bad. I could just see the struggle. Guys not in a relationship. The relationships never last that long. He's coming close to his forties, and I just, like. I feel bad because he's, like, a long way ways away to seeing that.

Joe [00:36:43]:
And by the time he probably ever does, it's gonna be like he's in his seventies, eighties, like, you know.

Eldar [00:36:49]:
But why is that a bad thing? Why do you make you feel bad? Like, if that's his journey, that's his journey.

Joe [00:36:57]:
It's sad to see, you know? Cause he gets so far, he gets so frustrated when he doesn't have control over, like, everything, and that's like, you gotta chill out. And even that balls him with. To be told to be chill out.

Eldar [00:37:10]:
You never. You never troll him?

Joe [00:37:12]:
I troll.

Eldar [00:37:13]:
Yeah.

Joe [00:37:13]:
Yeah. I troll.

Eldar [00:37:14]:
Yeah.

Joe [00:37:15]:
Because I. You know, what else are you gonna do?

Eldar [00:37:17]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Joe [00:37:18]:
You know, if he's around.

Eldar [00:37:19]:
Yeah.

Joe [00:37:19]:
You know, and you gotta go with it. I'm trying to teach him.

Eldar [00:37:23]:
No, see, but it's not trolling.

Joe [00:37:25]:
Trolling teaches as well.

Eldar [00:37:26]:
Well, no, I think trolling has no attachments to teaching. Right. When you say I'm teaching, that means you have an attachment to actually him learning something. Okay. Where with trolling, it's just like, I'm just gonna troll you and see where it lands.

Joe [00:37:41]:
Well, I'm. But I'm. I'm having. I'm having fun. At the extent of trying to teach.

Eldar [00:37:45]:
Him, you know, like, you have an actual thing to. You want him to learn.

Joe [00:37:50]:
I would love him to learn. I don't want to see someone suffer.

Eldar [00:37:53]:
No, for sure. For sure.

Joe [00:37:54]:
I mean, yeah. It's just that he is. And it's a long ways for him to come out of it, so, you know, I try to have fun at the same time.

Eldar [00:38:02]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Joe [00:38:03]:
Where, you know, he's able to. To provide that. It's not making it worse.

Eldar [00:38:07]:
Yeah.

Joe [00:38:07]:
If anything, you learn from it.

Eldar [00:38:09]:
No. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Joe [00:38:10]:
And if you don't learn from it, you're staying the same anyway.

Eldar [00:38:12]:
Yeah. It is what it is whether or.

Joe [00:38:13]:
Not I tell you or not.

Eldar [00:38:15]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Joe [00:38:15]:
You know, it is what it is.

Eldar [00:38:16]:
Yeah. So as long as you're not getting frustrated over attaching yourself to him.

Joe [00:38:20]:
No, no, no, no.

Eldar [00:38:24]:
You know, because that's what he talked about. Right. He talked about a gurus that, um. Yeah, that was interesting that all the gurus, he said, get frustrated when their students don't learn. To me, it's like, how's that even possible?

Mike [00:38:35]:
Yeah. You can't be a guru.

Joe [00:38:37]:
Yeah. You're not a guru.

Eldar [00:38:38]:
Yeah. Then you don't understand the process or you don't respect the process of life and how long it takes for you to start making friendships. I mean, maybe because gurus bought into like magical miracles and shit like that, you know what I mean? Where like they can just touch you and just all sudden you, you got it, like, you know what I mean?

Mike [00:38:53]:
There is, yeah.

Eldar [00:38:54]:
I mean, like, you know what I mean?

Mike [00:38:57]:
Coming back to this, I don't think there is a magic here. Think it is magic. It is magical.

Eldar [00:39:02]:
Yes.

Mike [00:39:03]:
But there is actually no magic. Yeah, there's a magical thing.

Joe [00:39:05]:
Mm hmm.

Eldar [00:39:06]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:39:06]:
When you start discovering actually what.

Eldar [00:39:08]:
Yes. Self love is an abilities of it. Yeah.

Mike [00:39:10]:
And the abilities of it.

Eldar [00:39:11]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:39:12]:
I think it's magical, but I don't think it's magic. I think it's accessible to anybody.

Eldar [00:39:16]:
Oh, yeah.

Mike [00:39:16]:
Anybody could tap into it.

Eldar [00:39:18]:
Hundred percent.

Mike [00:39:18]:
Because.

Eldar [00:39:21]:
Cuz you're doing it and you.

Mike [00:39:22]:
See, cuz I'm doing it. I wasn't doing it before.

Eldar [00:39:24]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:39:25]:
You know, and not just on the csing and the brushing the teeth, but on, you know, on the bigger thing.

Joe [00:39:31]:
This is my point. Self love is up to the person.

Mike [00:39:33]:
Yeah.

Joe [00:39:34]:
The responsibility of the individual and they can get there. Responsibility, though, it's a, it's a word that a lot. It doesn't sit well by saying responsible. Accountability.

Eldar [00:39:44]:
Responsibility, no, but for self love in particular. For self love in particular. Like, if you don't want to love yourself, Joe, go hit your head over that, over that wall. Up to you. That's your choice. Yeah, but that, and then I'll be here and I'll give you some napkins and clean up your blood and stuff like that. But that's your choice. Yeah, you have the right to do that.

Joe [00:39:59]:
You do have the right to do.

Eldar [00:40:00]:
But I'm not gonna say you're responsible like you hold your.

Joe [00:40:04]:
No, no.

Eldar [00:40:05]:
For self love.

Joe [00:40:05]:
No. No. You're not saying. I'm not saying you're responsible.

Eldar [00:40:09]:
Yeah.

Joe [00:40:09]:
And if you don't do it, you know. No, not. You're not gonna be trying to say.

Mike [00:40:15]:
It'S in your hands.

Joe [00:40:16]:
You're not. Yes. You're not gonna be held accountable.

Mike [00:40:18]:
Anyone.

Eldar [00:40:19]:
Yeah. Okay, cool.

Joe [00:40:20]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:40:20]:
I'm not sure.

Joe [00:40:21]:
You're not gonna be accountable. You're nothing. You're not having to have accountability for an individual like me.

Mike [00:40:27]:
Yeah.

Joe [00:40:28]:
As far as, like, my perception on the fact that you were banging your head against the wall.

Eldar [00:40:33]:
Yeah.

Joe [00:40:33]:
You're not. You know, I'm not holding you accountable for your actions.

Eldar [00:40:36]:
Yeah.

Joe [00:40:37]:
You're responsible for your own self love.

Eldar [00:40:39]:
Yeah.

Joe [00:40:40]:
You know what I mean? You have to give that to yourself.

Eldar [00:40:42]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:40:43]:
Respond. I know what you're saying.

Eldar [00:40:44]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:40:44]:
With yours, nobody can give yourself love.

Joe [00:40:47]:
No.

Mike [00:40:48]:
So in a way, yes.

Eldar [00:40:50]:
Yeah. Okay. So you're just stating obvious.

Joe [00:40:53]:
Sure. It is that obvious to me.

Eldar [00:40:56]:
Yeah. No, yeah. That. I understand what he's saying.

Mike [00:40:58]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:40:58]:
Okay. Like, yeah, obviously.

Mike [00:41:00]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Eldar [00:41:02]:
Well, yes. I get that. I get it. That self love is on in your hands, bro.

Joe [00:41:06]:
Okay, but some people think.

Mike [00:41:07]:
No, but people. I was under depression, maybe a little bit like that. By loving somebody else, I would get self love to see maybe in that.

Joe [00:41:18]:
Because sometimes people look outwards, they look for that love or validation outwards, and.

Eldar [00:41:25]:
Then in return, by definition, they got it wrong, but.

Joe [00:41:27]:
Yes, but in return, they do get a little bit of validation and fulfillment, but then it depletes.

Eldar [00:41:33]:
Well, yeah, but they're definitely not getting self love, though.

Joe [00:41:35]:
I know, but they're. They're confusing it.

Eldar [00:41:38]:
All right, cool. Yeah, no, they're 100% misreading it. Mislabeling it.

Mike [00:41:42]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:41:43]:
Yeah.

Joe [00:41:44]:
And guess what?

Eldar [00:41:45]:
Yeah.

Joe [00:41:45]:
It's. Other people isn't in control of your self love.

Eldar [00:41:49]:
No, but which reasonable individual would agree with that definition of self love?

Mike [00:41:52]:
Nobody reasonable would.

Eldar [00:41:54]:
Okay, cool.

Joe [00:41:55]:
No, yeah, yeah. But no one will. But people are on that. A lot of people are.

Mike [00:41:59]:
People are not reasonable.

Eldar [00:42:01]:
That's because they're not reasonable.

Joe [00:42:02]:
Sure.

Eldar [00:42:03]:
They're not actually having this conversation.

Joe [00:42:04]:
They're not.

Eldar [00:42:05]:
Okay.

Joe [00:42:05]:
And I'm just saying. Yeah, they're responsible for it.

Eldar [00:42:09]:
Damn, Joe, that's a t shirt.

Joe [00:42:11]:
I'm pointing to you, yo.

Eldar [00:42:12]:
Yeah. Coining it.

Joe [00:42:13]:
They are. You know, because it just. That's the way it is.

Eldar [00:42:17]:
Yeah. You know, you're responsible for your self love, and that's the way it is.

Joe [00:42:23]:
And that's that.

Eldar [00:42:24]:
And that's that. Yeah.

Joe [00:42:25]:
You know, I always talk about this book because it taught me a lot. But attachment, it's. It's you. It's how you were raised, you know, through the type of attachment style that your parents gave you. So starting from the very beginning, from when you're a baby, to growing up and having all these types of friendships and relationships, professional, personal, romantic type, it all varies on. Also the type of attachment style you had growing up, what type of love your parents gave you, you know? And these are stones. These are. And everyone.

Joe [00:43:00]:
Everyone's built differently, and everyone is given different scenarios.

Eldar [00:43:06]:
Set of skills set up.

Joe [00:43:07]:
Yeah. End of the day, you're all responsible, and that's the way it is. And that's that.

Mike [00:43:12]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:43:13]:
Yes, yes.

Joe [00:43:13]:
And I can't do anything for you.

Eldar [00:43:15]:
No, no, I get it. I get it. But see, he was operating out of the fact that he's aware that people out there are doing what you used to do. Right? Saying, like, hey, I'm gonna get the self love from.

Mike [00:43:25]:
I wasn't that wrong impression. So. I wasn't.

Eldar [00:43:26]:
Well, that's what I'm saying. Right. I'm under the impression, like, any reasonable person would not agree with the state.

Mike [00:43:31]:
Course not. Yeah. From. Yeah, in the moment, I'm not. It wasn't a reasonable. I mean, in that time, I wasn't correct.

Eldar [00:43:38]:
So I 100% agree with the obvious, but sometimes the obvious is what? It's not so obvious.

Mike [00:43:44]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:43:45]:
Oh, wow. Sometimes the obvious is not so obvious. Yeah.

Joe [00:43:50]:
Gonna have a whole line of t shirts on this. On this.

Eldar [00:43:52]:
Oh, you want to see the fucking list, bro?

Joe [00:43:55]:
Do you have a website? Merchandise?

Eldar [00:43:57]:
Yeah, we got. We have a website.

Joe [00:43:58]:
Is it Dennis Ross? Calm merch.

Eldar [00:44:00]:
I'm sure.

Joe [00:44:01]:
Throw out that links. Yeah. No, advertise on.

Eldar [00:44:05]:
We have the slurs already broke.

Joe [00:44:06]:
Yeah. But verbalize this.

Eldar [00:44:08]:
Yeah, we are, of course.

Joe [00:44:09]:
Well, go to danbar.com. get your merch. Get these t shirts now while they're.

Eldar [00:44:13]:
Not made yet, but they're gonna be made. Get them now.

Joe [00:44:16]:
Anyway, these guys and girls, you provide discounts for the. For the Patreon's.

Mike [00:44:24]:
No.

Eldar [00:44:24]:
What do we say? Sometimes obvious is what.

Joe [00:44:28]:
You got it. You got to give these early listeners deal, you know, and then, you know.

Eldar [00:44:35]:
Yeah.

Joe [00:44:35]:
Provide them with something, because these are. Yeah, these are the people that are gonna.

Eldar [00:44:38]:
Joe, we're providing them with something.

Joe [00:44:40]:
Jack.

Eldar [00:44:42]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:44:43]:
What he said. He said, justice is worth more than gold.

Eldar [00:44:45]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:44:46]:
Justice is worth more than.

Eldar [00:44:48]:
Yeah.

Joe [00:44:49]:
What's justice?

Mike [00:44:50]:
No, no, this is saying the. In a. In a republic, he's saying there was comparing something about gold and. And socrates or plate. I don't know who said it, but he said that justice is worth more than a thing of gold.

Joe [00:45:06]:
Mm hmm.

Mike [00:45:07]:
You know?

Joe [00:45:07]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:45:08]:
So the knowledge is worth more than the shiny t shirt giveaway for trying to pedal. Yeah.

Eldar [00:45:20]:
Exactly. What the hell is it? Like there's a minimum you could pay for this kind of shit?

Mike [00:45:25]:
Yeah. That's like a deal already.

Eldar [00:45:27]:
Yeah. Sort with a certified seal that it's really came from us. And that's you about this life.

Mike [00:45:31]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:45:31]:
You know what I mean?

Mike [00:45:32]:
Exactly.

Joe [00:45:32]:
That.

Eldar [00:45:33]:
You listen actually through to the whole thing.

Mike [00:45:41]:
To get the hoodie. You gotta pass a quiz.

Eldar [00:45:42]:
Yeah.

Joe [00:45:43]:
You gotta name the type of chips that my man.

Eldar [00:45:47]:
You gotta sit on his lap.

Joe [00:45:49]:
Just tell me what type of chips he was crunching on and he walked in and you get a free t shirt.

Eldar [00:45:57]:
All right, well, any final thoughts before.

Mike [00:46:00]:
So did we actually say what self love is?

Eldar [00:46:02]:
Besides a lot of times it's hard to actually pinpoint to what it is. A lot of times you go around and around, around in circles and things to just kind of describe.

Mike [00:46:10]:
So is certain examples of it. One thing that, you know, I mean, you were talking during the week and I asked you.

Eldar [00:46:16]:
I'll tell you what it is. I got.

Mike [00:46:18]:
Okay. One thing I asked you is what it was. It was. Self love is when logic and emotion. Remember this?

Eldar [00:46:28]:
Yes. And I was gonna put it in the easier words.

Mike [00:46:31]:
Yeah, you hit it.

Eldar [00:46:32]:
Self love is your ability to choose pleasure over pain consciously.

Mike [00:46:38]:
That's like a, that's like a deep version, and that's simple.

Joe [00:46:41]:
That's a little deep. It is. But give it in a sense, explain it on a lower level. Then what's pleasure over pain?

Eldar [00:46:51]:
Well, obviously something that feels good to you actually feels good. When we do something right now, does it actually makes you feel good? Does it actually make you feel good because you actually sat down with it and felt it? Or is it not Mike's example of signing up a counter strike while he's very tired is actually going to make him feel good? No. Right. What he's doing is doing, he's people pleasing. Right. Because he signed, you know, he feels bad. Maybe Joe, he doesn't want Joe, but.

Joe [00:47:15]:
He also likes construct too. But he realized not at that moment.

Mike [00:47:18]:
He waited second.

Joe [00:47:19]:
Right.

Eldar [00:47:20]:
He did not make a conscious choice.

Joe [00:47:22]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:47:22]:
For effort, for himself.

Joe [00:47:23]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:47:24]:
He made it for someone else for some other reason, you know? So.

Joe [00:47:28]:
So, no, I would say if he came and played against his own will, that would have been for someone else.

Mike [00:47:34]:
Oh, I thought he did worse.

Eldar [00:47:35]:
Oh, I thought he did. Oh, you didn't. You stayed in.

Mike [00:47:38]:
It was even worse. Oh, okay, good.

Eldar [00:47:41]:
Yeah. That would have been a perfect example of what you chose. Right?

Mike [00:47:44]:
Yeah.

Joe [00:47:45]:
But it's also his pleasure on his end, because, like, unless he was just.

Mike [00:47:49]:
Doing it just so I would 100% got into it. Right. I would have had fun. It would have been good. But I, like, I know that in that moment, I would have violated myself.

Eldar [00:47:59]:
Yeah. You see? You see? Yeah. And then, and then we were on the walk. I also mentioned that when you make this choice, this conscious choice, your body and your mind has to be synchronized. So. Right. So what's happening in that particular moment that your mind might be like, okay, cool, I could get into it. I can enjoy it.

Eldar [00:48:12]:
However, tomorrow morning, my body's not gonna be in agreeance because you didn't get enough sleep and now you're lazy and tired.

Mike [00:48:17]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:48:18]:
Right. So when the two combine, your mind and your body, and you actually feel good, and you have to be the subjective person who actually says that it's good. Right. It's your experience, objective experience. Then you in the line, and you actually displayed self love. If you didn't, if one or the others compromised the mind or the body, then you kind of missed.

Mike [00:48:36]:
Would you say in those make sense, Joe?

Eldar [00:48:38]:
No, we're just.

Mike [00:48:39]:
Would you say in those kind instances when the body and mind connect, there's no need for discipline?

Eldar [00:48:43]:
No, absolutely not.

Mike [00:48:45]:
It should be easy.

Eldar [00:48:46]:
Correct. Everything is effortless.

Mike [00:48:47]:
Everything is effortless.

Eldar [00:48:48]:
Correct.

Joe [00:48:49]:
What about, like, jumping in a cold plunge?

Eldar [00:48:53]:
If you have enough reasons, you'll do it and you'll be proud of yourself and you really, actually enjoy it, both mentally and physically.

Joe [00:48:58]:
Yeah, yeah. But, you know, do you though, you know, you get out if you actually.

Mike [00:49:07]:
Believe in it?

Eldar [00:49:08]:
If you know, my mentally. Yeah, you.

Joe [00:49:11]:
But let's not be.

Mike [00:49:16]:
Line is very thin. The line between do you believe in it or not? Is very thin. It's very.

Joe [00:49:22]:
Were you just throughout analogy where you said, if discipline. I disagree with you. I. I think the problem. The problem is, bro, the problem is you're saying, like, once it becomes discipline, you know, or you can eliminate discipline and then you're really, truly doing things that you love, but like, you're like, cold plunge, you're doing something for the health of your. Of your body.

Eldar [00:49:47]:
So you think, yeah, but you don't.

Joe [00:49:49]:
Actually believe in scientifically proven.

Eldar [00:49:51]:
What do you mean?

Mike [00:49:51]:
You cannot do something for everyone.

Eldar [00:49:53]:
Some people get hypothetical if you believe in something.

Joe [00:49:55]:
Some people eat that from eating peanuts?

Eldar [00:49:57]:
Well, yeah. I mean, yeah.

Mike [00:49:59]:
Yeah.

Joe [00:49:59]:
Doesn't mean peanuts are bad for you.

Eldar [00:50:02]:
I mean, but you can't say that it's universally truth.

Joe [00:50:04]:
I say, well, when it's the general consensus, when they help. But it's not just people out there.

Eldar [00:50:10]:
Yeah.

Joe [00:50:11]:
No, it's never going to be 100% true for everyone.

Eldar [00:50:14]:
But if overwhelmingly represented as a universal truth.

Joe [00:50:20]:
I didn't say was a universal truth, but what Mike said earlier, Washington, you know, you don't need discipline because everything you're doing is based off of that. You truly love what you're doing. Mm hmm. Just throughout the example of cold plunge.

Mike [00:50:36]:
Yeah. If you examine the situation, next time you have that situation, think about what you're thinking about.

Joe [00:50:42]:
Like, fuck off. You cannot sit in a cold plunge.

Mike [00:50:48]:
Yes.

Joe [00:50:49]:
For the first time, for more than, let's say, two minutes. First time.

Mike [00:50:53]:
Two minutes. What the hell? Yeah.

Eldar [00:50:55]:
They're trying to, like, yeah, I'm just.

Joe [00:50:57]:
Throwing out a number there.

Eldar [00:50:58]:
Okay, cool.

Mike [00:50:58]:
I'm not telling you, like, oh, just because you believe you can walk on fire, you should do it. I'm not trying to fire.

Joe [00:51:08]:
I'm just saying, what I'm saying is the discipline involves where you go and do it. Like your cold showers. Right? I don't do cold showers because they're fucking, even though it's really good for you.

Eldar [00:51:18]:
I do cold showers, not because I think that they're good for me because you know what I'm saying?

Joe [00:51:22]:
Like, I, you started doing cold showers.

Eldar [00:51:23]:
I like doing it. No, now I like doing it, Joe. I do do it.

Joe [00:51:27]:
You do do it and you enjoy doing it. I.

Eldar [00:51:28]:
Sometimes I do, sometimes I don't. And when I don't, I don't do it.

Joe [00:51:31]:
Okay, but you like, when I'm really.

Eldar [00:51:32]:
Warm or whatever, I'm like, yo, it's right now I'm cold. I'm not doing this.

Joe [00:51:36]:
I know, but you started. Why did you start doing it in the first place?

Eldar [00:51:40]:
I mean, I had my reasons.

Joe [00:51:41]:
I mean, you did not wake up and say, like, I would.

Eldar [00:51:43]:
I wanted to. I wanted to redefine the way the relationship I have with. Yeah.

Joe [00:51:47]:
Give me the truth.

Eldar [00:51:48]:
I'm giving you the truth is he.

Mike [00:51:50]:
Wanted to kill cold.

Eldar [00:51:51]:
Yeah. I wanted to read the final.

Joe [00:51:52]:
What does that mean? And what does that mean?

Eldar [00:51:54]:
You, I didn't want anyone, you read.

Joe [00:51:56]:
How, how healthy would be and beneficial for you would be for your health.

Eldar [00:52:00]:
Yeah.

Joe [00:52:01]:
To combat the code.

Eldar [00:52:02]:
Yeah.

Joe [00:52:02]:
Cold.

Eldar [00:52:02]:
Cold. Yeah.

Joe [00:52:03]:
Acclimate yourself before you get sick last. That's a health reason.

Eldar [00:52:06]:
Yeah.

Joe [00:52:07]:
And you learned that.

Eldar [00:52:07]:
And that's what it was.

Joe [00:52:08]:
And that's what it was. Scientific. But guess what? Exactly. But. But what I'm trying to say is, like, no one's gonna. And he doesn't wanna do it when it's cold, and he just doesn't wanna do it because it's. It doesn't.

Eldar [00:52:20]:
But you also gotta understand the difference between me doing it when I first read the information and got it and got into it.

Joe [00:52:25]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:52:26]:
It's a lot easier because your mindset is there. It's mind over matter.

Joe [00:52:29]:
Yes.

Eldar [00:52:29]:
However, now fast forward a lot. Right. It's a lot more difficult to do the same thing. Sure. Because I'm not in the same mindset.

Joe [00:52:35]:
That's where discipline comes in. Because it's still done for you. Because it's still good for you. It didn't change. It's just your ability. No, but I draw for. Your drive has went down.

Mike [00:52:45]:
Hold on.

Joe [00:52:46]:
His drive went down? Your drive went down to do it. The first, you were doing it because you were, like, overwhelmingly happy about the idea of it. And then you started making the decision on your own part. You were hyped up. Then you started making the decision on your own self. When. When will. When you will do it under your terms.

Eldar [00:53:02]:
Yeah.

Joe [00:53:02]:
But if you think about it, if you've been doing it from when you started to now, you haven't stopped.

Eldar [00:53:07]:
Yeah.

Joe [00:53:07]:
It's. It will be very beneficial that you haven't stopped.

Eldar [00:53:11]:
Yeah.

Joe [00:53:11]:
Agreed.

Eldar [00:53:12]:
I hope so. I'm not sure, but I stopped.

Joe [00:53:15]:
But it's when the. When the mind says no, because it's not satisfactory. Especially when you're doing good things for yourself.

Eldar [00:53:22]:
Yeah.

Joe [00:53:23]:
And you're doing positive stuff, but it's like. It's a challenge and it's laziness and it's content and it's like. Just not having discipline. Those are things. Exercising, eating right, doing all these things. That's discipline, bro.

Eldar [00:53:36]:
Yeah. You missed.

Joe [00:53:37]:
Everyone sits down on podcast. Right.

Eldar [00:53:38]:
It's much easier going towards that thing. Right.

Denis [00:53:40]:
Music to my ears, man.

Joe [00:53:42]:
So.

Eldar [00:53:46]:
He was riding that train.

Mike [00:53:47]:
I know he was.

Eldar [00:53:48]:
Yes. That's why he's. Yeah, he's ears. Correct.

Joe [00:53:51]:
Well, I mean, I don't see it any other way.

Eldar [00:53:54]:
Yeah.

Joe [00:53:54]:
I don't see it any other way.

Eldar [00:53:55]:
No. Which is fine, because it's.

Joe [00:53:57]:
It's very easy to just sit on a couch all day and watch Netflix for 8 hours or play video games. Not going to work.

Eldar [00:54:03]:
Yeah. What's wrong?

Joe [00:54:05]:
Not saying that it's wrong. Comparing it. I'm just saying, like, what's easier? Would you rather go to work all day, work hard 8 hours, make your money, or you can sit at home and get paid?

Eldar [00:54:16]:
I think everybody ultimately striving to be able to do what they actually like.

Joe [00:54:19]:
Sure.

Eldar [00:54:20]:
But that's my take. Even if it takes for you to sit there every single day, watch Netflix, eat your fucking popcorn, or whatever it is you're eating, sooner or later you're gonna get. Get your ass out of there and actually come up with something. I'm bored of this. I'm gonna go try to do something else. Hopefully you get to a point where you start finding things that you actually like to do versus constantly forcing yourself to discipline or you don't need. That's good.

Joe [00:54:42]:
You don't need to constantly force yourself to do shit. That's good.

Eldar [00:54:45]:
No, you can't. If you want, if you.

Joe [00:54:47]:
But if you pull back and you slack on. On the things that's good for you, you compare to two individuals. Right. The healthy individual. That's. That's my mindset is. Is health. It's like exercise, eating, doing good things, he found.

Joe [00:55:02]:
And that's the other person, individual that doesn't have focus on that and doesn't care about those things and it's not important to them. But when you look at the overall, like, what productivity someone could do with, like living to an old age and enjoying. Enjoying a long life and. And being able to. Being able to move about with your body rather than like being overweight or unhealthy and this and that and not having a certain ability.

Mike [00:55:30]:
Also. Also, if a person is overweight, it's not because a lack of discipline, I think, is underlying thing that the person has actually figured out.

Eldar [00:55:39]:
Sure.

Mike [00:55:39]:
These are.

Eldar [00:55:40]:
No, but he's actually using self discipline. Like, he used self discipline as a means to change. You know what I'm saying? Like, hey, you don't have to be fat, you don't have to be lazy. All you need to do is install self discipline and you'll get out of that.

Mike [00:55:53]:
But that's like trying to do the long cut.

Eldar [00:55:55]:
Well, that's, to you, that's. You differ from your philosophy to his philosophy. He says you can.

Mike [00:56:01]:
It's like you're trying to solve the problem from the back end like this.

Eldar [00:56:06]:
Yeah.

Denis [00:56:06]:
Who's to say the discipline is not the root problem for some people?

Eldar [00:56:11]:
Yeah, it's good.

Mike [00:56:12]:
Yeah. Who said it's not the problem?

Denis [00:56:14]:
Like in the f. You're talking about the fat example. Like, you're saying that's not. The discipline is, like, just the whatever. Like, what if that is?

Mike [00:56:21]:
If it's a medical condition? Okay, sure. Wow.

Eldar [00:56:26]:
Wow. You might cut this one out.

Mike [00:56:29]:
If it's a medical condition. The person is overweight.

Joe [00:56:31]:
Yeah. Like thyroid issues.

Mike [00:56:33]:
Yeah.

Joe [00:56:33]:
Or something like that.

Mike [00:56:34]:
Or something they're born with.

Denis [00:56:36]:
If I come home and there's unlimited amount of chips that my friend Vermeer brought for me.

Mike [00:56:40]:
Uh huh.

Denis [00:56:41]:
Every day I come home, there's just more chips.

Mike [00:56:43]:
Wait, Vermeer bring you chips every day?

Denis [00:56:44]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:56:45]:
Serious world. I like it.

Denis [00:56:47]:
Yeah. You guys live in hypotheticals?

Mike [00:56:49]:
Oh, yeah.

Eldar [00:56:50]:
You live in hypotheticals, buddy.

Joe [00:56:53]:
Give him this mic.

Eldar [00:56:53]:
Right.

Mike [00:56:54]:
Yeah, we gotta get. Yeah. Why are you eating chips every single day? Tell me why you eating chips every day? You can't prove that to me right now.

Denis [00:57:05]:
I'm giving you an example where I know that the chips are bad, so it's not a.

Eldar [00:57:09]:
Don't they taste good?

Denis [00:57:10]:
Lack of education.

Mike [00:57:11]:
Yeah.

Joe [00:57:12]:
He's talking about nutrition. He knows nutrition is good.

Mike [00:57:15]:
Then you're happy. To. My belief, and then I believe is if you don't want to do something, you don't want to, it is a reason you don't want to do it. And I don't think it's because of discipline. I think it's because my mom tell.

Eldar [00:57:31]:
Me no.

Joe [00:57:34]:
You know me. A sick comment to that is you telling yourself it's not disciplined. That's lack of discipline.

Eldar [00:57:42]:
Yeah.

Joe [00:57:42]:
I mean, I hear you saying no.

Mike [00:57:44]:
I'm saying that lot of things, that people don't have discipline in it. Discipline is only required when you don't want to do something, but you're still doing it.

Joe [00:57:52]:
Mm hmm.

Eldar [00:57:53]:
Yes.

Mike [00:57:53]:
People are eating, overeating, not because the food only tastes good. It's because they have internal, like, disciplines. Oh, yeah, I'm sorry. They have, like, this one.

Joe [00:58:08]:
Go ahead.

Mike [00:58:08]:
They have internal problems. They have internal turmoil.

Denis [00:58:15]:
It's important to be able to make yourself laugh at.

Mike [00:58:18]:
Yes. That's probably the most important thing. Finally, one thing.

Joe [00:58:25]:
Yeah. You know, I don't agree with doing things that aren't gonna make you happy. You know what I mean?

Eldar [00:58:32]:
Yeah, I don't think we are either.

Joe [00:58:34]:
I don't agree with that. And that's it. That's just the way it is.

Eldar [00:58:41]:
You stating the obviously again?

Mike [00:58:43]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:58:43]:
You know, I state the obvious. My name is jonah.

Mike [00:58:48]:
I state the obvious.

Eldar [00:58:51]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:58:52]:
But with a period.

Eldar [00:58:53]:
All exclamation point.

Joe [00:58:54]:
Yeah. No semicolon, no extra, no dot, dot, dot. Yeah. So I guess it's also how you spin it. How you analyze your own way of analyzing that, you know, self love.

Mike [00:59:11]:
Self love is different. Very person.

Joe [00:59:13]:
Could I say one thing about self love? Final thoughts?

Mike [00:59:16]:
Just one.

Eldar [00:59:17]:
One.

Joe [00:59:18]:
And I don't think it has much to do about discipline. I think it has to do. Yeah. I think.

Eldar [00:59:26]:
You got the demon on.

Joe [00:59:27]:
I think. I think what self love truly comes down to is you being able to forgive yourself and about things that you might have gotten wrong or you might have, you know, um, you tried something and you didn't love something about yourself. Um, forgiving, that is self love. Right.

Eldar [00:59:48]:
It's one way of doing.

Mike [00:59:50]:
Yeah.

Joe [00:59:50]:
It's almost like you do something wrong.

Eldar [00:59:52]:
Yeah.

Joe [00:59:52]:
And I can forgive you, and that's love I have for you. I'm giving you that love.

Eldar [00:59:56]:
You do that yourself.

Joe [00:59:57]:
Yeah. And if you do that to yourself, you're not such a hard critic on yourself. You know, you don't come down on yourself. And you, at the end of the day, dance like no one would. Dance like no one's watching, and you're enjoying yourself so you're not doing things you don't want to do, and people aren't influencing that. And you're just, like, kind of happy and great. I think just being able to try. And if you fail, you fall, you get back up, forgive yourself, keep moving forward, love yourself, and then you'll be happy.

Joe [01:00:30]:
That's self love in a nutshell.

Eldar [01:00:32]:
Yeah. That's an example of being able to forgive yourself. Yeah. You're not gonna be able to bat a thousand like.

Joe [01:00:39]:
No.

Mike [01:00:39]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:00:40]:
No, that's not.

Joe [01:00:42]:
You're gonna hit slumps. You're gonna sometimes hit dangers.

Eldar [01:00:45]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:00:46]:
You know, sometimes you might strike out or no strikes out, but if you.

Joe [01:00:49]:
Have discipline and you get up to the batting cages every day.

Eldar [01:00:52]:
Yeah.

Joe [01:00:52]:
You know what I mean?

Eldar [01:00:53]:
Yeah.

Joe [01:00:53]:
Perfect your swing.

Eldar [01:00:55]:
You're more likely to, but only when you feel like.

Mike [01:00:58]:
Yeah, I agree. These guys finally agree.

Eldar [01:01:01]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:01:02]:
They came around.

Joe [01:01:02]:
The better you get at sharpening your school, your skill sets, and your tools on your belt, the more prepared you are for those situations.

Mike [01:01:11]:
Yeah.

Joe [01:01:12]:
You know, unless it's just rolling dice all the time. All we're doing is rolling dice and it's all on chance. Mm hmm. Then I would say show up when you want to show up.

Eldar [01:01:20]:
Yeah.

Joe [01:01:21]:
Roll when you want to roll.

Eldar [01:01:22]:
Yeah. Because nothing matters, because you have no attachment to it.

Joe [01:01:26]:
To what?

Eldar [01:01:27]:
The outcome of betting.

Joe [01:01:31]:
I don't say it's like a gamble lifestyle. Like, it's sort of like where the chips may fall, but you do have an influence on how they do fall sometimes with discipline.

Mike [01:01:44]:
Yeah, I'll be honest. Yo, like with the discipline thing. Yeah, I'm starting to not buy into.

Joe [01:01:48]:
It and it's okay, this is the differences of, of ideas that like.

Mike [01:01:54]:
No, see Joe, one thing I will say, I think this is, I believe, I believe in it a lot. It's not that discipline is bad or good, it's only our association with whatever thing that we're trying to tap into, whether it's discipline or any other thing. It's how we engage with that thing. If we engage with discipline in an unhealthy way, it's bad.

Joe [01:02:17]:
I agree with that.

Mike [01:02:18]:
If we know how to engage in discipline in a healthy way.

Eldar [01:02:20]:
Yeah. Okay. But you have to expand on what that means.

Mike [01:02:23]:
No, how do you engage it?

Eldar [01:02:24]:
No, you have to, you, because you.

Joe [01:02:26]:
Said it, you dropped a.

Eldar [01:02:27]:
No, how do you, how do you, how do you engage in the role?

Mike [01:02:31]:
You see like that, it's gonna open up a whole nother.

Joe [01:02:35]:
Discipline.

Eldar [01:02:36]:
You gotta. Yeah, because if you unpack that right there, he'll disagree on a lot of things, but because you're stating the obvious, he's the stating obvious guy, he'll agree.

Joe [01:02:42]:
But he's incorporating discipline into his theory of.

Mike [01:02:45]:
Alright, fine, I'll give an example cuz I was thinking about it just a few minutes ago.

Joe [01:02:49]:
Nice. I like examples.

Eldar [01:02:51]:
Real life one.

Mike [01:02:52]:
Yeah, real life.

Eldar [01:02:53]:
Yeah, no, those are the best.

Mike [01:02:54]:
No, I don't know if you. Yeah, I got a real one. Roll the dice.

Joe [01:02:57]:
All right.

Mike [01:02:58]:
And video proof as well. Whoa, whoa.

Eldar [01:03:01]:
Holy shit.

Mike [01:03:02]:
So I don't know if you heard, I don't know if you listen to the podcast. No, I've been thinking about picking up smoking again.

Joe [01:03:10]:
Okay, you have to hear that second.

Mike [01:03:13]:
Time out.

Joe [01:03:16]:
As soon as you said, I totally disagree, I think it's a terrible idea.

Mike [01:03:21]:
Yeah, yeah.

Joe [01:03:22]:
As a friend, I advise you not.

Mike [01:03:24]:
I agree, I understand, I agree. No, I agree by the.

Eldar [01:03:28]:
Yeah, it's almost was expected.

Mike [01:03:31]:
It's expected.

Eldar [01:03:31]:
We gave you a little bit of.

Mike [01:03:33]:
Like a little bit of nugget.

Eldar [01:03:34]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:03:35]:
So to give you the option. Yeah. So I've been thinking about, I said this a few months ago and I was like, yeah, I was, I really love smoking from what I remember. I love it, I enjoy it, it brings me like just amazing, I feel great. Yeah, obviously, you know, side effects are, but might be bad health. Might be, might be, yeah.

Eldar [01:03:56]:
Okay, well he might end up in the 2% though. That's what I'm saying.

Joe [01:04:02]:
Yeah, possible, possible.

Eldar [01:04:04]:
Right. You can't guarantee one or the other.

Joe [01:04:06]:
I could. I could say that the chances of him are of slim from being in that 2%. Because it's 2%.

Eldar [01:04:13]:
Yeah, but there's still a possibility.

Joe [01:04:15]:
There's still a possibility, right?

Eldar [01:04:16]:
I think that's what he's.

Joe [01:04:17]:
I might hit the lotto tomorrow. Yeah, we're on a jet tomorrow. Wherever you want to go. Get you cigarettes from Bali if you want to go.

Mike [01:04:24]:
Yo, I'm actually down to go to Bali.

Joe [01:04:25]:
Me too. Go ahead.

Mike [01:04:27]:
So, yeah, so I've been thinking about smoking again.

Joe [01:04:30]:
Okay.

Mike [01:04:30]:
And a few months ago, I said this, and I was like. Like I said, I love smoking. I really enjoyed it. From what I remember, all the times that I smoked, there was good times, there were bad times. Overall, I really enjoyed the smoking. I would, you know, go have a cigarette. I would relax. I would slow me down.

Mike [01:04:47]:
Probably not all the time, but sometimes, you know, sorry, it was a vice you had, but it was a vice I had that it was at times healthy and sometimes unhealthy, because when I was in a bad relationship, I would smoke, like, two, three times more. And I, you know, I will stress out. And sometimes when I'm in good company, I would smoke a lot, too, when I'm myself. So every time it was like, you know, I used to smoke more or less sometimes, so. But it's something that I really remember from years ago that I enjoyed. And I don't have the egg from it completely. I still, like, I'm thinking about it. And I said to myself, when I get older, I'm gonna start smoking.

Mike [01:05:24]:
You know, like that expression, like, wiser and older. And I was like, yo, actually, I said, when I get wiser and older, I will start smoking again. I might start smoking again. And then I said to myself, like, actually, I need to get wiser, not older, you know?

Joe [01:05:41]:
Sure.

Mike [01:05:42]:
Because there's not guarantee they're gonna be.

Eldar [01:05:43]:
Like, handed addict will come up with the reasons.

Mike [01:05:45]:
Yes, for sure. An addict will always come with the reasons. Yeah.

Eldar [01:05:49]:
So, easiest path to victory.

Mike [01:05:50]:
Correct.

Eldar [01:05:51]:
Got it.

Mike [01:05:51]:
You only gotta convince yourself.

Eldar [01:05:53]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:05:53]:
That's easy to do.

Eldar [01:05:54]:
Yeah. You're pretty good at that one.

Mike [01:05:56]:
Of course. So I was like, yeah, why do I need to get older? I just need to get wiser. And what that means to me is that I will have a healthy relationship with cigarettes. I can clearly tell if I'm smoking for a pleasure, to enhance my life, to enjoy the experience more, because that's what it did for me in the past. I can also tell when I did it because of stress, because I had problems with my relationship, I had problems at home, problems with money, whatever. I used to smoke exponentially more. And obviously, I think that was the times that it contributed much worse to my health because I already had bad stress. And on top of that, I might have been damaging it with smoking as well.

Mike [01:06:34]:
So maybe. Maybe making the situation worse, you know, potentially. So. So, yeah, so that that's kind of the situation where being wiser and knowing how to have a healthy relationship with something, you know, where it does, it's not out of a stressful situation. It's not to escape, you know, your reality. You know what it could be? Drugs.

Eldar [01:06:58]:
Right?

Mike [01:06:58]:
People use drugs and alcohol realities. Bad habit. Yeah. It's actually to say, like, hey, you know what? I'm living a really good life. I'm happy with myself. I'm living in accordance with self love. I'm living in accordance, you know, with a lot of things, and this is something I really enjoy. I'd like to start smoking again, you know? Hi.

Denis [01:07:20]:
You're losing Joe, right?

Mike [01:07:21]:
Joe. I'm losing you.

Eldar [01:07:22]:
Joe. What time?

Joe [01:07:23]:
I'm listening.

Eldar [01:07:23]:
You need to restart the compo now.

Joe [01:07:25]:
I'm listening. Yeah, I'm waiting for the you to drop the. Where's the.

Eldar [01:07:29]:
Where's the meat?

Mike [01:07:30]:
Yeah, the meat of the potatoes. Oh. So, yeah, so that, so. So I was, um. That's what I decided.

Joe [01:07:37]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:07:38]:
I haven't gotten to the place that I'm still there.

Joe [01:07:40]:
You haven't made a decision. Pass this.

Mike [01:07:42]:
Well, I'm not wiser yet to the point that I'm, you know, can feel like it, you know.

Joe [01:07:46]:
So currently. Currently, you're still debating?

Mike [01:07:50]:
Yes, but I did, you know, I did have some real life application.

Joe [01:07:54]:
Okay.

Mike [01:07:55]:
When I was in vacation. Hi. When I was in vacation, just like, whatever. Two months ago in Belgium.

Eldar [01:08:03]:
Right?

Mike [01:08:04]:
In Belgium, yeah. With my dad.

Joe [01:08:05]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:08:06]:
Every night we're drinking beer, you know, whatever. Hanging out, eating whatever.

Eldar [01:08:11]:
One of your usual rituals, the usual.

Mike [01:08:13]:
Thing you do when you're on vacation, you know, not just me, I hope, but I think most people, they eat and drink, so we're drinking and eating, you know, and hanging out, and my dad's like, yo, let's do cigars. I think it was the first night, so we're in London before we got to Belgium, and he's like, yo, let's go have some cigars, and like, oh, hell, yeah, let's do it. It was just, you know, it was just me and him. So we're just chilling. So we get cigars okay, cool. It's cool. We had a good time, but cigars is not really my thing. But I'm like, yo, it's kind of bonding with my dad.

Mike [01:08:39]:
He likes, he wants to, you know, push off a little bit, flex, you know? I'm like, okay, let's do it. So we did it. We did it maybe three or four nights. And then one of the nights was hanging out at a restaurant, and I was talking to the waiter. We were talking about Formula One racing and stuff. And it was just a good, nice conversation, chilling and had a couple drinks. I was like, I was feeling good. I was like, you know what I asked the kid? I was like, yo, you have a cigarette? So I bombed cigarette from.

Mike [01:09:05]:
He gave me a pack. It was like only four left.

Joe [01:09:07]:
This is your first cigarette for a.

Mike [01:09:09]:
Second in four years. Yeah. So, first I heard in four years.

Joe [01:09:13]:
So you relapsed?

Mike [01:09:14]:
I relapsed, yeah. And I've been smoking every day since, guys.

Joe [01:09:17]:
Oh, yeah.

Mike [01:09:18]:
No, okay. So I real. I went and I smoked it. In that moment, I was like, wow, it's nice. It felt great.

Joe [01:09:25]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:09:25]:
Had some drinks, smoked those cigarettes, like four, and went to bed and woke up, everything's fine.

Joe [01:09:33]:
So since then, the story.

Mike [01:09:36]:
Oh, hold on.

Joe [01:09:37]:
Sorry, sorry.

Mike [01:09:38]:
So the next day, I'm like, okay, now I want to smoke again.

Joe [01:09:43]:
Mm hmm.

Mike [01:09:44]:
But so I'm like, okay, let me now. And let me, let me go buy a pack. So the next night, I went to the store and I bought a pack and I smoked, and I smoked a lot more in an irresponsible way versus the way that I felt that I first day engaged in, which was like, yo, I'm drinking, I'm relaxed. This is just to make it better. Not out of an addiction, not out of a, like a fucking memory attachment thing, but just for enjoyment in the moment. It just felt like, yo, this is what I want to do. And I did it. There was no, like, anything else really complications there.

Mike [01:10:17]:
But the next day when I went, I smoked a lot more. I smoked in a healthy way, and I felt like, yo, I'm not doing this for the same reason I did it the night before, you know, so I smoked that pack, I think, like that that day. And then the next day, and then I stopped before I came back, I left. That's enough. You know? But in one day, I experienced just, like, I don't know, guilt free, fun, whatever. Guilt free, like, enjoyment. And the next day, I felt like shit because I was doing it for the wrong reasons.

Joe [01:10:50]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:10:51]:
So that's. That's. That's what I'm saying.

Joe [01:10:52]:
Okay.

Eldar [01:10:53]:
I would himself that he's not wise enough.

Joe [01:10:55]:
Sure.

Mike [01:10:55]:
And I wasn't able to engage with that thing in a healthy way. And the first night I was because it felt like it was right in the moment, but the second day it wasn't because it was. I'm not really sure what the reasons were, but they weren't.

Denis [01:11:07]:
Is it possible to engage with that in a healthy way?

Mike [01:11:10]:
Well, I think the first day I engaged with it in a. In a. In a wise way.

Denis [01:11:15]:
Beginners luck.

Eldar [01:11:16]:
Right?

Mike [01:11:17]:
Well, possible. I mean, I don't know.

Eldar [01:11:19]:
Well, isn't it subjective, though, in this, in this particular case or example?

Denis [01:11:23]:
What do you mean?

Eldar [01:11:24]:
Like, he's gonna be the judge of that, right?

Joe [01:11:26]:
Yeah. Yeah.

Eldar [01:11:26]:
Like, he can say, okay, guys, actually, a pack a day is the healthy way. That's what. Like, what can we say? What can we say? Okay, well, now he's gonna say two packs is unhealthy. That's his limit.

Joe [01:11:37]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:11:37]:
Like, no more.

Joe [01:11:38]:
I think if I were to shed any light for you, right.

Eldar [01:11:41]:
Subjective.

Joe [01:11:42]:
Subjectively, from my perspective.

Mike [01:11:44]:
Yeah.

Joe [01:11:45]:
It's that everyone, let's say, has a unhealthy habit. Right. In life. Right. For me, it's Coca Cola.

Mike [01:11:51]:
What's unhealthy habit?

Joe [01:11:53]:
Unhealthy in terms of health, diet, what it's doing to your body, that's an unhealthy habit in my head. Like, you know, doing things that could adversely affect your health. That's an unhealthy habit. Whether it's doesn't have to be food or cigarettes or drugs. It could be for some people porn. It could be for some people, gluten. Certain addictions that compromise the overall health. It doesn't have to be food.

Joe [01:12:21]:
Okay. Could be mental health. It could be physical health.

Mike [01:12:24]:
Mm hmm.

Joe [01:12:24]:
All right.

Mike [01:12:25]:
Yeah.

Joe [01:12:26]:
So everyone has a situation where they may do things in their life that isn't the most healthiest, but if you could do it in moderation, everyone's always, like, mentality is as long as you could control your moderation and everything is okay. Right? Few drinks a night, one drink a night, every other, whatever. Everyone's moderation value is a different scale. Everyone. What? Someone's willing to intake. I would never smoke cigarettes, but that's me. You. That's you.

Joe [01:12:56]:
Right. But it's. Nicotine's an addiction. I understand the damage it does. Like, that's my, that's what I value, right? I'm nothing. Devaluing your life by saying, because you smoke yada, yada, yada, for me, it was Coca Cola. Right? I was. Couldn't stop drinking it.

Joe [01:13:15]:
And I had to get to a point where I tried that shit to that moderation. I'm gonna have it only with specific meals. Then I started having with every meal. Then I'm like, I only have it once a day, and I was having it twice a day. I wasn't able to curb my ability to control that moderation. So then I said to myself, all right, I like that discipline, and I'm gonna pull out. I'm not drinking soda no more. And that's my only way for me to realize I will have.

Joe [01:13:44]:
That's the only way I could really give myself that freedom. Because it's like when I have the keys, I'm gonna turn it, turn that engine on, and I'm gonna rev it, and I have no drawback. So I had to cut it out. And I. Cuz. Because I valued a.

Eldar [01:13:59]:
My.

Joe [01:14:00]:
My health, in a sense, where I tried to weigh the pros and cons. I weighed the pros of cutting it out rather than keeping it and trying to do that moderation thing.

Mike [01:14:09]:
Yeah. So for you, since that, you disciplined yourself to quit it.

Joe [01:14:13]:
Yes.

Mike [01:14:13]:
But you didn't have discipline to moderate it.

Joe [01:14:16]:
Correct. Yeah, well, I didn't, because once you're in it, like, it's an addictive substance.

Mike [01:14:22]:
Yeah.

Joe [01:14:23]:
So you. You either are facing someone who is stone cold sober from drugs, and there's no.

Mike [01:14:29]:
You would tell me that nobody. Nobody's able to. What you're saying to me then, it's that nobody can drink Coca Cola and have a discipline.

Joe [01:14:36]:
You can't. All right, take it like this. You can't be a recreational. You can't be a recreational heroin user.

Mike [01:14:43]:
I'm not sure about that.

Joe [01:14:44]:
Well, I'm pretty sure about that. There's people. I'm not a heroin addict, but I don't need to be a heroin addict to know that if you are addicted to heroin and now you're doing it.

Mike [01:14:52]:
Because you actually really like it and not for.

Joe [01:14:54]:
You could really like anything, like, you could like heroin. You could love heroin. Doesn't make it.

Mike [01:15:00]:
But if you're not doing.

Joe [01:15:02]:
But, Mike. But when you. When you. When you cut. When you go sober and you get. You go through rehab and. And basically, you're. You were an addict.

Joe [01:15:12]:
Now you're spending the rest of your life trying to.

Mike [01:15:14]:
Yeah, but you don't just wake up one day. You become an addict, right.

Joe [01:15:17]:
No.

Mike [01:15:18]:
Progressively, you somehow said, yo, you know what? My life is? Ex and x, so and so need heroin. I need drugs.

Joe [01:15:26]:
Right, sure.

Mike [01:15:26]:
You don't say, you know what, my life is greater than anything. Let me try heroin.

Joe [01:15:31]:
But then once you're at that rock bottom and you no longer can live your life at a healthy, normal pace, you need to cut it out. And there's no heroin addict, or for any reason any addict of any sort can say, I'm gonna temporarily bring that into my life. Add moderation, have discipline at that, because it just, it's impossible. Doesn't work, right? It doesn't work. Yeah. So when it comes to smoking, you smoked a lot in your life. You, you were able to live a life with smoking. I could say to you that you've gone so long without it.

Joe [01:16:07]:
But the temptation to smoke again is strong because everyone who's cut something out of their life, they cut it out for the reasons where they didn't want it for themselves. And it's hard to eliminate the craving for it because we're always going to crave the things that we once had. We know the brain is triggered that way. It's wired. So you're thinking about smoking again? I advise you not to, but I'm not in control of your life. I don't think it's a good thing for you. I'm not going to judge you in a sense, where I might stay away from if you're smoking right now, but you mind smoking outside the room, and then you're not going to be able to enjoy the moment, whatever. Like, you're gonna have some adverse effects from it, of course, being around certain people.

Eldar [01:16:51]:
But ask a question, Joe.

Joe [01:16:52]:
Go ahead.

Eldar [01:16:53]:
If Mike did master this thing, this wisdom thing about smoking cigarettes.

Joe [01:16:58]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:16:58]:
And was able to do it immoderately and let's just say three cigarettes a day.

Joe [01:17:01]:
Yeah. Like average smoker.

Eldar [01:17:03]:
Yeah. Let's just say three, you know. No, not like average.

Joe [01:17:06]:
Less than average. A pack a day. Less than average. Okay.

Eldar [01:17:09]:
Let's say he smokes one a day, just for the sake of argument.

Mike [01:17:11]:
Right.

Eldar [01:17:12]:
And he enjoys it and he really likes it, and he tells you, hey, Joe, I actually enjoy this. This is actually brings me pleasure, and I'm enjoying myself. Would that get a pass from you or no? And there's no, obviously, there's no adverse effect, long term effects, let's just say, hypothetically speaking.

Joe [01:17:25]:
So if they were, if it wasn't causing bad health for him.

Eldar [01:17:28]:
Yeah. Like one piece cigarette a day for the next 50 years.

Joe [01:17:31]:
This isn't a realistic example because it is adversely affecting him.

Eldar [01:17:35]:
Yeah.

Joe [01:17:35]:
So I can't really answer that question.

Mike [01:17:37]:
No.

Eldar [01:17:37]:
No, you can't answer that question if you're living in my hypothetical.

Joe [01:17:40]:
Okay. Hypothetically, if it caused no damage to his.

Eldar [01:17:43]:
No damage. We know this.

Joe [01:17:45]:
Then why would he have to curb his.

Eldar [01:17:47]:
So that you will promote it.

Joe [01:17:49]:
But why would he have to curb his intake?

Eldar [01:17:52]:
No, I'm saying only one. No, only one or two gets him sick and he dies. One. He has the wisdom to do only one per day.

Joe [01:18:00]:
Yeah. So.

Eldar [01:18:00]:
And it makes him feel good, and he won't die from it. And there's no adversity there. Will you promote it?

Joe [01:18:05]:
Yes.

Eldar [01:18:05]:
Okay, cool.

Joe [01:18:06]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:18:06]:
All right.

Joe [01:18:07]:
Yeah. And if you're not gonna die from it and it's a hypothetical.

Eldar [01:18:11]:
But it's a hypothetical, you actually enjoy this if you'll promote it.

Joe [01:18:14]:
But. But we're not talking about hypotheticals here. This is a real.

Mike [01:18:16]:
Yeah, how are we not talking about hypotheticals?

Joe [01:18:18]:
Because that. Well, we were talking. We were talking. Yeah, well, we were talking. A hypothetical example.

Mike [01:18:25]:
I can't. I cannot speak. If I get to that place that I'm wise enough, how I will be able to. It'll be easier enough for me to overcome the addiction.

Denis [01:18:34]:
Like, you're calling it wisdom? Like, is there. I don't know. The answer is there's someone that's been able to curb addiction and with moderation.

Mike [01:18:43]:
I mean, I haven't never looked at that, but I.

Denis [01:18:45]:
That's what I'm saying.

Eldar [01:18:46]:
Like.

Denis [01:18:46]:
Like, I don't know. Like, is it even possible to. To moderate something that's an addictive substance?

Eldar [01:18:53]:
Right?

Denis [01:18:53]:
Maybe you can.

Mike [01:18:54]:
Yeah, but then you would have to decide what's the addictive part of the cigarettes.

Joe [01:18:58]:
But is it the part this is.

Mike [01:19:00]:
Like, is it part of the stress relief that's the addicting. Or the illusion that you're relieving stress? That's the addicting part.

Denis [01:19:06]:
I mean, I guess if you want.

Joe [01:19:07]:
To go that route.

Denis [01:19:08]:
But isn't it. The nicotine is actually the addictive substance.

Mike [01:19:10]:
You could buy non nicotine cigarettes.

Denis [01:19:12]:
Oh, okay.

Mike [01:19:13]:
Right.

Joe [01:19:13]:
But smoke is still bad for your lungs, and if you.

Mike [01:19:17]:
There's also a big, fat, big thing here, which you. This is probably even more. But does it make you happy if you live a life?

Eldar [01:19:26]:
No, my question is, right.

Mike [01:19:27]:
He.

Eldar [01:19:27]:
He's the subject.

Joe [01:19:29]:
I'm not gonna control his happiness by his act if I'm telling you that.

Eldar [01:19:32]:
Y'all saying, guys, when I smoke one cigarette per day, it makes me happy.

Joe [01:19:36]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:19:36]:
Right.

Joe [01:19:37]:
By. How do you indulge by all means.

Mike [01:19:41]:
No, but how do you guys know that. That happiness won't extend my life or shorten it? And that nicotine and the cigarettes will lengthen it or shorten it? Which one?

Eldar [01:19:49]:
We don't know.

Mike [01:19:50]:
Or the cigarettes are long?

Joe [01:19:51]:
We don't know. And do you, Mike?

Mike [01:19:54]:
I don't know.

Joe [01:19:55]:
No, no, but do you?

Mike [01:19:56]:
I don't.

Joe [01:19:57]:
And I hope. I hope whatever you do makes you happy. And I'm.

Eldar [01:20:00]:
Yeah.

Joe [01:20:00]:
And I'll be happy for you. Yes, but if you're asking for my recommendation, yeah. I'm gonna advise you not to smoke. That's if you're asking me. But I watch you.

Eldar [01:20:11]:
But, like, you see, like, I don't know, like, how confident are you, Joe, in this shit? You know what I mean? Like, you're like, have you read studies and, like, how this affects you? Like this. I don't want cigarette a day, for example. You know, just say he ops for that. You know, like, I mean, like, look.

Joe [01:20:28]:
A smoker, a non smoker.

Eldar [01:20:30]:
Yeah.

Joe [01:20:30]:
Can also get cancer.

Eldar [01:20:31]:
Yeah.

Joe [01:20:32]:
A smoker can also not get cancer. But the studies are in, the fucking facts are in.

Eldar [01:20:39]:
Yeah.

Joe [01:20:39]:
We have years.

Eldar [01:20:41]:
Years of explainable anomaly, bro.

Denis [01:20:46]:
Yes.

Mike [01:20:46]:
I want to be anomaly.

Joe [01:20:47]:
You could be that anomaly. I'm not telling you not to, but not. But, but don't weigh heavy on that. Those. Those very minute percent.

Mike [01:20:58]:
Only thing I'm thinking about is if I'm wise enough to have a grip on it and it's making me happy. I will not.

Joe [01:21:04]:
I believe you could do that. Right, but I'm not.

Mike [01:21:08]:
But it's not on the top of my list, though.

Eldar [01:21:10]:
See, that's my challenge.

Joe [01:21:11]:
I don't think you can master that, Mike. You can master that. Yeah, but, but if you're gonna ask my opinion, you're asking, why do you care, Joe?

Eldar [01:21:21]:
Like, why do you care about that?

Joe [01:21:22]:
Well, well, I care because I don't want to see Mike. Why?

Eldar [01:21:26]:
No, but if he says to you, a, Joe, I am taking responsibility, and I thank you for bringing awareness that 99% of the people actually develop cancer and die from it.

Joe [01:21:35]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:21:35]:
I am willfully.

Joe [01:21:36]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:21:37]:
Willfully signing up for this experiment.

Joe [01:21:39]:
This is my life, and I'll be okay with that. I'll be okay with that. But when you ask me, I'm gonna give you my advice because. Because why?

Mike [01:21:49]:
Because you're. You're going off of statistics. Statistically, smoking is not good for you. Right.

Eldar [01:21:55]:
Yeah, obviously.

Mike [01:21:55]:
Yeah.

Joe [01:21:56]:
Common sense.

Mike [01:21:56]:
So obviously you go on a statistic thing.

Eldar [01:22:00]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:22:00]:
And that's understandable yeah. You know, but my, my challenge is that those statistics didn't actually understand maybe why those people are smoking. How they're smoking.

Eldar [01:22:09]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:22:10]:
How, how that smoking makes them feel.

Joe [01:22:12]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:22:12]:
And I think those three variables, huge.

Joe [01:22:14]:
I think they are. But I, but I want the best for you, Mike, and I feel, you.

Mike [01:22:18]:
Know, what if I'm telling you that smoking is the best for me?

Eldar [01:22:21]:
Yes.

Joe [01:22:21]:
No, no. As a friend, I'm gonna suggest selfish blanket on you. As a friend, I'm gonna tell you, you have, you can learn how to deal with what replacing what cigarettes did for you. You could replace that with a healthy alternative real hard.

Eldar [01:22:52]:
Okay, listen.

Joe [01:22:57]:
He'S trying to replace, now he's trolling you.

Eldar [01:22:59]:
He's trying to convert Mike into some other show.

Joe [01:23:07]:
You hear?

Denis [01:23:07]:
Friendship stuff aside, all the Kumbaya I wish the best for your side and even the hypotheticals aside.

Mike [01:23:15]:
Yeah.

Denis [01:23:15]:
My only argument here is if it's one a day. Beautiful, right?

Mike [01:23:19]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:23:20]:
Keeps the doctor away.

Joe [01:23:24]:
Promote that shit.

Denis [01:23:25]:
But is it the only argument here? Is it possible to do an addictive substance like smoking nicotine based cigarettes?

Joe [01:23:34]:
I don't know.

Denis [01:23:34]:
If you did some other way you.

Mike [01:23:35]:
Could do it, then you would have.

Denis [01:23:36]:
To really out without the addiction taking over.

Eldar [01:23:40]:
See, that's a good question. I have the same argument.

Denis [01:23:44]:
You good for life. You got discipline.

Eldar [01:23:48]:
No, my challenge here, too, I agree with you. I think sooner or later it'll spiral out of control. Correct. His challenge is like, no, I can do this in control manner. When he's wise, he needs yo.

Mike [01:24:00]:
But I'm also not saying that when I'll ever get there, and if I do get there, then I will still.

Eldar [01:24:05]:
Want to rule addiction 100%. 100. Wisdom.

Denis [01:24:10]:
Like wisdom like what? What can you possibly, like how much you are know?

Eldar [01:24:14]:
It's an anecdote. Overcome something that's anecdotal. No, it's an Adido to your, you can't get addicted. It's impossible.

Mike [01:24:22]:
If you're wiser, you would be, you would not be addicted. Those things would not affect you now.

Eldar [01:24:27]:
Right. So you're saying if you, if you're not, you're gonna get addicted. It's a fucking, it's a clearest day equation.

Mike [01:24:33]:
Yeah.

Denis [01:24:34]:
I don't know.

Joe [01:24:35]:
What about, like, you know, like saying.

Eldar [01:24:38]:
I'm gonna, and only time will tell Ydev, only his experiment will tell us whether or not he's wise or he's addicted.

Denis [01:24:43]:
That, or we can maybe tap into maybe something he's done research about whether.

Eldar [01:24:46]:
He gives a fuck. We could do our own research here on him.

Mike [01:24:49]:
I'll let you guys know when I'm ready. For now, I'm not rich.

Joe [01:24:52]:
Look, Mike.

Mike [01:24:53]:
Yeah.

Joe [01:24:54]:
These are lots of experiments. If you plan on experimenting with yourself, go for it.

Mike [01:24:58]:
Want to live a happy life, Joe? And I perceive it. Yeah, that used to bring me happiness. Is it gonna bring me happiness? I don't know. When I become wiser, when I think that I'm ready to tackle that, and I say, okay, I don't see anything wrong with it, we're gonna find out.

Eldar [01:25:12]:
I don't see anything wrong as long as he's taking the responsibility as an adult.

Joe [01:25:17]:
See, Eldas approach is, he wants you to learn, and he wants to allow you to give, give you that opportunity. He's giving you the opportunity he knows the answer to. He's not gonna tell it to you.

Eldar [01:25:29]:
I actually don't, Joe. I actually don't. I actually want to throw him in the 2% thing. I think he can do it.

Joe [01:25:34]:
Whatever, bro. I don't agree with that, joy.

Eldar [01:25:38]:
It is, this is criminal for me to hold them away from that. It's criminal. I can't believe that you would, you would suggest them, like, oh, we could do something else.

Joe [01:25:49]:
Then, for the example that we're talking about dating, right?

Mike [01:25:52]:
Yeah.

Joe [01:25:52]:
So, you know, we obviously know. I mean, I don't want. I say so. So I mentioned to you about, like, the girls you date of, right?

Eldar [01:26:02]:
Yeah.

Joe [01:26:03]:
At the end of the day, that these chicks, you know, kind of, kind.

Eldar [01:26:06]:
Of like, they're really wholesome.

Joe [01:26:08]:
You say, like, you know, it's like, it's like, go. It's like going to McDonald's and trying to get food off the dollar menu, and we're like, yo, this ain't no ribeye steak. Like, what you expect, bro? You're at McDonald's, you know, like, you know, I mean, so. And then you're like, I want to be that person that could find. They could walk into McDonald's and order the cheeseburger off the dollar menu, but instead, they're going to turn around like, here, bro, today you're getting there. Ribeye, you know, I mean, and I said to you, I was like, you could try to convert that cheeseburger into a ribeye. But, like, why don't you just go to the real store and get a.

Mike [01:26:38]:
Real wiser, Joe, we're not gonna.

Eldar [01:26:42]:
This ain't Ribeye steak. What the fuck you expect? You a McDonald's?

Mike [01:26:48]:
Yes.

Denis [01:26:50]:
Let me just take 20 seconds.

Eldar [01:26:51]:
Oh, two definitions.

Denis [01:26:52]:
So the first definition, I want to look up was addiction. So addiction is defined as a treatable, chronic medical disease involving complex interactions among brain circuits, genetics, and the environment, such as an individual's life experiences. Now, hold on, please. Then the second bear with me is of wisdom. Wisdom is the ability or result of an ability to think and act utilizing knowledge, experience, understanding, common sense and insight.

Eldar [01:27:19]:
Like the anecdote, one is.

Denis [01:27:21]:
One is a medical condition.

Mike [01:27:23]:
Mm hmm. What is medicine, Dennis?

Denis [01:27:25]:
Complex circuitry of the brain. And another is.

Mike [01:27:27]:
Yeah, like I said, theoretical lala land.

Eldar [01:27:32]:
That you live in, son.

Mike [01:27:33]:
If you tell me that you. If you tell me that, like, no.

Eldar [01:27:37]:
I agree with you, bro. The fuck if.

Mike [01:27:39]:
If you tell me that every single person that smokes cigarettes lives till 50 years old, a painful, shitty life. I will not smoke cigarettes.

Denis [01:27:48]:
Your only basis of the argument was about this one a day thing? Again, theoretical.

Mike [01:27:52]:
No, it's not one a day thing. It's a multiple. Multiple thing.

Denis [01:27:55]:
D. No, but you're saying the basis of argument is that if you could.

Mike [01:27:59]:
Do one a day, it's not about how many, okay? No, it's the reason for smoking. Yes, if I'm smoking five a day, but I genuinely, honestly, truthfully am doing it because my life is already great, and this makes it even better. Yeah, I'm okay with a pack a day, but if I'm smoking one a day, but I'm miserable, I'm not okay with that. Huh?

Eldar [01:28:25]:
You got the demon on him. Maybe.

Joe [01:28:28]:
I think you need a cigarette, bro.

Eldar [01:28:29]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:28:30]:
Yeah, I feel good.

Joe [01:28:33]:
We go again.

Mike [01:28:34]:
I'm getting my fix here, bro.

Eldar [01:28:36]:
Yeah.

Joe [01:28:37]:
Yeah. I mean, I guess, like, I said, to do what makes you happy. That's it. Do it makes you happy, Mike. I say.

Denis [01:28:46]:
I say you stop fucking around. Just do the experiment.

Mike [01:28:49]:
Yeah, but I'm not there yet.

Eldar [01:28:54]:
To a place where he does it for a specific reason. So it's not like a, like an addictive thing.

Mike [01:28:59]:
Like, oh, I mean, it might be 30 years, bro.

Joe [01:29:06]:
That's great. Out. That's. That's a, that's a goal, because the.

Eldar [01:29:10]:
Game will be up. Or, like, what is he doing? Oh, he's out there smoking cigarette, like, chain smoking and shit. Like, stressed out. Like, oh, that's what you did it for? Like, come on, man. You know what I mean?

Mike [01:29:17]:
Like, like.

Eldar [01:29:21]:
What he's setting himself up for here. You know what I'm saying? One day it sounds like he'll have, because we have ups and downs all the time. One day he might not be smoking at all. Maybe a week he doesn't smoke, and then the next day he might be smoking a whole pack of. That's what. Based on what he said, it's very possible there can be this kind of a phenomenon.

Mike [01:29:38]:
And that's why I'm saying not. And that, that comes back to the thing is the association with things. If you have a bad association and you're smoking because you're addicted and it's controlling you, you're fucked. But if you smoking and you're controlling smoking, then you're in the wind.

Joe [01:29:53]:
This case, this example came up. When you try to talk about doing things with disappointment.

Eldar [01:29:58]:
Yeah, I think that's what.

Joe [01:29:59]:
Things that make you happy. It was like those. You were doing an example.

Mike [01:30:03]:
I was saying that the engagement, self love.

Joe [01:30:06]:
Engagement, self love was like doing. Doing things because, not because you're supposed to, but because you enjoy doing it. And then discipline doesn't exist. Remember, you said, yes, I do saying.

Mike [01:30:18]:
So I do recall.

Joe [01:30:19]:
And I threw out the example of cold plunge. And then we started talking about, yeah, cigarettes.

Eldar [01:30:23]:
But.

Joe [01:30:26]:
You know, so can you wrap that up in a nice little cute package?

Mike [01:30:29]:
Yeah. I mean, what, how we got to this, is that my. I said, I said this, like, I thought about this a while ago, is that. I don't think that. I don't think. I don't think most things are good or bad.

Joe [01:30:43]:
Mm hmm.

Mike [01:30:44]:
I think it's only the associations we have with them.

Joe [01:30:46]:
Mm hmm.

Mike [01:30:46]:
The way that we attach ourselves to those things, or it's either we rule those things or those things roll us. That applies to anything. If you're gonna be ruled by discipline, you're fucked. You're gonna be miserable your whole life. You're gonna be nervous as fuck. You be stressed out as fuck. Anytime you make a wrong turn, you're gonna be fucking killing yourself and you might not have a good life.

Joe [01:31:04]:
I don't.

Mike [01:31:05]:
If you master discipline and it's your now servant versus you being its servant, it's two different, completely different things.

Joe [01:31:14]:
Yeah. No, I'm not disagreeing. I'm not disagreeing. I'm not disagreeing with you saying, like.

Mike [01:31:19]:
Don'T let multiple things. Yeah, most things.

Joe [01:31:23]:
Don't let discipline rule your life, obviously. No, no, it's not.

Denis [01:31:28]:
Everything needs to be done in balance.

Joe [01:31:29]:
Don't let it. Don't let it.

Denis [01:31:31]:
Remember when we were having an argument about consumable discipline?

Joe [01:31:35]:
But that's. Yeah. Yeah.

Eldar [01:31:37]:
You were moderating it by going first. You were doing that, doing that, doing that. It was too much for you. And then you turn. Tone it down. You learn a different way of doing.

Mike [01:31:45]:
Something you don't like.

Denis [01:31:46]:
Yeah. Discipline within, like a. Without making me miserable in that.

Eldar [01:31:51]:
Because it was making you miserable.

Denis [01:31:54]:
Yeah.

Joe [01:31:55]:
Yeah. Being too much is not a good thing, but having some type of structure.

Mike [01:31:59]:
But that is called. Is that called mastering the discipline? Doing it when you need it, when you want it, and when you feel up for it, versus, like, yo, seven days a week when you can't miss anything down through.

Eldar [01:32:10]:
I think that's what you get, and.

Mike [01:32:13]:
That'S what I'm just. That's what I'm trying to get to with. I think, you know, everything. Learning how to people label things. Good, bad, those things out. They don't have those things within them. It's only. You want to be bad with cigarettes, okay.

Mike [01:32:28]:
Be bad. You want to be good with cigarettes, be good. You want to have. Be good with alcohol, be good. Alcohol, be bad, be bad. You want to be good with discipline, be good or bad.

Eldar [01:32:35]:
Either way, you want to have habits that are serving you and. Versus the ones that are not.

Joe [01:32:40]:
Of course.

Eldar [01:32:41]:
Obviously. You know what I mean? And what I'm saying by habits. Right. I'm not talking about discipline. You know what I mean? Discipline anymore. It's just habits. It's something that you do. You brush your teeth effortlessly.

Eldar [01:32:50]:
You know what I mean? It's already ingrained in you. It is what it is. Very easy.

Mike [01:32:53]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:32:54]:
You don't even think about, you know, you do some other stuff, and, you know, maybe Dennis, you know, his very white teeth. Yeah, sure. That he probably mastered that. Right. Or maybe in the beginning he was disciplining for a little while, but now it's like, kind of like second nature. Like, it's like breathing air. You know what I'm saying? So, yeah, you hope to, you know, I think display of real self love is that is the, you know, accumulation of many good habits, you know, that are just working for you versus. Against you.

Mike [01:33:19]:
Yeah. Versus you battling.

Joe [01:33:20]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:33:20]:
Like you battling against the current here. Constantly versus the current. You're going with the current.

Eldar [01:33:25]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:33:25]:
It's just. Yeah. Anytime you have to force yourself to do something, it just. It just feels wrong to me.

Joe [01:33:31]:
What if it's a good thing?

Mike [01:33:33]:
If I. If I can brush my teeth once a week at night? Wait, what's the question?

Joe [01:33:43]:
I mean, if it's a good thing.

Mike [01:33:44]:
What'S a good thing?

Joe [01:33:45]:
You're saying everything that you. Everything that you.

Mike [01:33:48]:
It can be a good thing. If I don't want to do it, how can it be a good thing?

Joe [01:33:51]:
Well, that's a product of just your.

Denis [01:33:54]:
Mind a lot of times if it's like I want to or I don't want to is your subjective.

Joe [01:33:59]:
Once a week washing your teeth versus twice a day. There's an example of, you know, I.

Mike [01:34:04]:
Wash my teeth every morning.

Joe [01:34:05]:
I know. I'm just saying whether you want to do it or not.

Mike [01:34:11]:
Yeah.

Joe [01:34:11]:
There's no objection to if it's a good thing or not. Like not wanting to do it. Like, I don't want to brush my teeth, but I do it because I. I'm avoiding bad hygiene. Yeah, dental hygiene. There's a reason why people do things even though they're not supposed. They don't want to do it. Not that they're not supposed to.

Eldar [01:34:29]:
How about a quick question?

Joe [01:34:30]:
Go ahead.

Eldar [01:34:31]:
Okay. Sorry. It might be sound ridiculous to you.

Joe [01:34:33]:
Okay.

Eldar [01:34:33]:
Kathryn brushes her teeth probably twice or three times a day. Yeah.

Joe [01:34:36]:
Okay.

Eldar [01:34:37]:
I brush my teeth once a day, sometimes twice, because she forces me. Okay. Sometimes.

Joe [01:34:42]:
I appreciate your answer, but when we.

Eldar [01:34:43]:
Go to the dentist, I'm not gonna, you know. You want me to do a public. What's a quick plug?

Denis [01:34:49]:
Plug? You retired from that team.

Eldar [01:34:51]:
Yeah, but still, you know, when I go to spectacles, you know, dds, my teeth are better. Why? Because on the other hand, right, she might be rushing three times a day. She's eating candy.

Joe [01:35:02]:
Yeah, well, yeah, but if she wasn't.

Eldar [01:35:08]:
It doesn't prove anything. I just stated obvious. I just stated the obvious, bro, while the gigs up, if you didn't connect it in your mind, it might be late.

Denis [01:35:18]:
No, but that's a experiment, let's say for like that has a lot of variables in it.

Eldar [01:35:25]:
Yeah, no, it sounds like, yeah, if you don't want to brush your teeth all the time, stop fucking candy, motherfuckers. I need to brush their times a day garbage. But his point was he eats candy too. He needs to brush it.

Joe [01:35:36]:
But his point was, if something in my life, yeah. Is making me do something I don't want to do, it means it's not good. Like there's nothing. There's nothing good in life that you're doing. That's your. Your unhappy about doing it. And those are the things.

Eldar [01:35:51]:
I'm not sure we can quantify that.

Joe [01:35:53]:
Well, I could give a lot of examples, Joe, but those all examples are.

Eldar [01:35:56]:
Not going to be subjective examples to Mikhail Rosenbaum with his stuff.

Joe [01:36:00]:
It's not because it's subjective.

Eldar [01:36:02]:
That's what I'm saying. You cannot use an objective truth to subjectify.

Joe [01:36:06]:
But the things that are not subjective or health studies or are things that. I'm bringing up examples.

Eldar [01:36:13]:
Joe, every health study, if you read the abstract, they came up with a conclusion, but they also warn for things that they overlook.

Mike [01:36:20]:
There's not. Wait a second.

Eldar [01:36:22]:
We found this evidence. We found these things that we linked those together. However, our study, like here. I'll study like here. I'll study like here.

Mike [01:36:30]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:36:31]:
Further, further things need to be done in order to conclude these things. Yeah, I don't see, I don't see how you are. You reading hundred percent conclusive studies. I'd love to see them.

Joe [01:36:41]:
No, I'm just, I'm just trying to say.

Mike [01:36:43]:
Yeah. I don't think there's, you know.

Eldar [01:36:45]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:36:46]:
Like, they actually are objective. Most things is subjective. I know.

Eldar [01:36:57]:
It's hard to understand us.

Denis [01:36:58]:
So you, at one point, you. You've been lately talking about how you've been rehabbing here and feeling better, right? So point. And now you're just saying your main thing you like to repeat a lot is.

Mike [01:37:12]:
Yeah. Repeating nonsense.

Denis [01:37:13]:
All you believe is, oh, shit. You got to do what you want. If you just said, like, if I don't. If I don't like it, I'm not gonna like them, that's telling me that I shouldn't be doing it, right? Something along those lines, right? That's the concept.

Eldar [01:37:27]:
It's not sitting well. Yeah.

Mike [01:37:28]:
Yeah.

Denis [01:37:28]:
So, so at one point. At one point, let's say a year ago, your feelings, those same feelings that dictate now what you do or don't do, those same feelings and thoughts at one point, a year ago, told you not to hang out with him and totally through those conversations and unpack all your layers. Right. They were also telling you not to do it, and then you acted on them by escaping and this and that. So, like, at one point, those same feelings and thoughts kept you away from, let's say, the truth, which you find as the truth right now in your life. So can we say that living a life just by what we want to do, without discipline, just by what we want to do and what we want to think for the moment, is always gonna lead us to the truth?

Eldar [01:38:09]:
He's trying to trap you.

Mike [01:38:12]:
No, no, no.

Eldar [01:38:13]:
It's. It's a. It's a. It's a lackluster attempt, but nonetheless.

Mike [01:38:16]:
No, I will say, I will say that. I will say. I'm not sure what. I'm not sure what he said, but we'll say that because he's fucking mumbling some nonsense. I will say. I will say that the light connect.

Eldar [01:38:30]:
From before to this.

Mike [01:38:31]:
Now. I got it. Just. Just hold your horses. Yeah, no, it's okay. I mean, I could repeat it. I will say. I don't know what you said, but I will say in response to that, the reason I'm leaving this life now.

Denis [01:38:48]:
Well, how you gonna. First of all, because.

Mike [01:38:51]:
I don't know. I know. I don't know what you said, but I know what you're trying to say.

Joe [01:38:54]:
What is short term?

Denis [01:38:56]:
Yeah, I'm gonna try to shorten it right now. You're saying, I want to live my life based on what I like to do, what I want to do. If I don't feel like doing it, I'm not going to do it, right?

Eldar [01:39:05]:
Correct.

Joe [01:39:06]:
Correct. Only if it makes you happy regardless of the outcome.

Mike [01:39:08]:
Yes, but, guys, don't be under the impression that everything's already working on doing these things. I haven't done everything, but I'm getting to the place where I can do only the things that I want.

Joe [01:39:21]:
Well, he's trying to have you acknowledge that the theory is, in a sense, kind of flawed when you're just doing things only making you happy. Like going to go to warhouses and doing drugs, obviously makes a lot of people happy or the people that do it happy, but it's not a. It's not going to create great outcomes for you.

Denis [01:39:42]:
Mike, at one point, what. The whole point I was saying was that one.

Eldar [01:39:45]:
But there might be some good explosions.

Denis [01:39:48]:
Your feelings and your thoughts said not to hang out with them and unpack your layers.

Mike [01:39:52]:
Yes.

Denis [01:39:52]:
You understand? So, like, that was your thoughts and feelings.

Mike [01:39:55]:
Yes.

Denis [01:39:56]:
The same concept you're using here, which is I'm only doing what I feel like doing. Isn't that using the same.

Mike [01:40:03]:
Yeah. See, the thing is, what I'm doing different. Yeah, see, I know what you're saying, but I really don't. But I'm gonna tell you anyway. I'm. I'm doing things.

Eldar [01:40:13]:
Can you explain to him.

Mike [01:40:15]:
I know what he's saying. He's saying that I'm doing what I wanted to before, and. And now I'm doing what I wanted.

Eldar [01:40:21]:
But one thing is consciously. One thing is subconsciously.

Denis [01:40:24]:
What do you mean? No, it was consciously doing. If he's.

Eldar [01:40:27]:
He was completely asleep. He wasn't believing in that. No, that's his. Yeah, no, sure.

Joe [01:40:33]:
That's. Now what he thinks.

Mike [01:40:34]:
Oh, yeah.

Eldar [01:40:35]:
Yeah, but that's a different. It's a completely different experience. It's a completely different.

Denis [01:40:39]:
That's my point, is that now he believes wholeheartedly that I should only do what I like. And if I. If there's this resistance.

Eldar [01:40:45]:
Yeah, but he didn't have.

Mike [01:40:46]:
Yeah, but see, doing what I like.

Denis [01:40:49]:
He had the resistance to you back then.

Eldar [01:40:50]:
Yeah, but that's not from a conscious thing where he was saying, like, oh, this is not it. You didn't set out on a mission. This is a mission that was.

Mike [01:40:58]:
No, I'm just running mission.

Denis [01:41:00]:
He was a mission that his way was.

Eldar [01:41:01]:
If that's how you see it, then, okay.

Mike [01:41:03]:
No, what I'm saying is I'm doing what I want.

Eldar [01:41:06]:
He had a mission that this.

Denis [01:41:07]:
The way he was living his life was. Was like, he got it figured. You guys say yourself, like, I got.

Mike [01:41:12]:
He had it.

Denis [01:41:12]:
Like, his way was, like, believed in it, and he was like, yeah, I gotta go do my own thing. So he believed the same way.

Eldar [01:41:19]:
She did not go around, raise his hand, and said, I'm gonna go do this.

Joe [01:41:22]:
Like this.

Denis [01:41:23]:
Amazing. It's about what he. He believed it, like, clearly if he did it.

Eldar [01:41:27]:
Okay, so you think he was believing consciously, and now it's the same thing as now he's believing this consciously.

Joe [01:41:33]:
I don't know which one Dennis is. Try trying to say is, you look back at that moment, right, of whatever this period of time is talking about now. And now. Yeah, now. How do you look at that moment that you were just like, kind of. How do you feel about that moment? It was the wrong moment.

Mike [01:41:49]:
No, I did everything right.

Joe [01:41:51]:
You did everything right.

Eldar [01:41:52]:
Everything led to here.

Mike [01:41:54]:
What I. Yeah.

Joe [01:41:55]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:41:55]:
So, first of all, I did what I knew was right.

Eldar [01:41:57]:
Look, where he's a much better place.

Joe [01:41:59]:
What you thought. What you thought was right. But in. Theoretically, it was. If you weren't doing that, let's say you're doing what you're doing now. You got to this point. You were doing that back to this.

Mike [01:42:11]:
Point without going to that.

Joe [01:42:11]:
I know that. So it's a learning process. What you want to do is you want to go through the learning process to get to a point where you understand right from wrong. Right. Not what makes you feel good.

Mike [01:42:23]:
I would like where the things that I want to do and which I am trying to do are rooted and truth.

Joe [01:42:31]:
Yeah, but you brought up the point of what makes you happy. Regardless if it's right or wrong, you're going to get there. But if you could get.

Mike [01:42:40]:
How could. How could not living by the living get the truth? Make me happy?

Joe [01:42:45]:
Because if you're doing things only that are making you happy.

Mike [01:42:49]:
Yes.

Joe [01:42:49]:
They happen to be wrong. And you know how they get to that?

Mike [01:42:51]:
Impossible.

Joe [01:42:52]:
Okay.

Mike [01:42:53]:
Because if part of that, you know, and I didn't say it, but part of doing things that make me happy, they have to for me, they have to line up in accordance with the truth. So if going out and go to warhouse makes me happy, but. And I'm talking about I want to fall in love, that does not line up with my truth. And there's nothing with the truth, what I'm actually looking for.

Joe [01:43:13]:
Yeah, but the truth at the time, like that time with you were avoiding.

Eldar [01:43:17]:
Elder and told there was nothing on.

Joe [01:43:18]:
The board that wasn't a truth, that the truth that existed for you was.

Mike [01:43:21]:
Yes, that was my truth. Yes.

Joe [01:43:25]:
It changed the actual truth. Never change that.

Mike [01:43:28]:
He made actual truth. Never truth.

Eldar [01:43:30]:
He.

Joe [01:43:30]:
So he didn't see the truth.

Mike [01:43:31]:
Yeah, correct.

Eldar [01:43:32]:
Living in accordance to his own doing. What?

Joe [01:43:35]:
Doing the truth now?

Mike [01:43:37]:
Well, I have good friends like you can, you know, shake me up a little.

Denis [01:43:41]:
What if in three years you actually figure out there's something, like, missing, way.

Mike [01:43:44]:
As last time, I'm gonna keep figuring, knowing that I've been doing wrong probably for many more years. More than three. Yeah, I know the wrong impression for more than three years. But I'm trying to, you know, pick up those rocks.

Eldar [01:44:00]:
Before he didn't, before he acted. Now he knows. So it's a big difference. I don't know why you don't see the difference.

Joe [01:44:06]:
No, it is a big difference.

Eldar [01:44:07]:
It is that big difference.

Joe [01:44:08]:
It is a big.

Eldar [01:44:09]:
Comparing to completely different scenarios.

Joe [01:44:11]:
Well, it is a big difference, but I think. What? Like, the issue of the statement you're making, in a sense, where it's like, I'm only gonna do things that are gonna make me happy, and if they're not making me happy, that means they're not good for me.

Denis [01:44:27]:
Well, only things that I like.

Joe [01:44:28]:
Only things that I like. And what I was trying to argue was, even things that you don't like are also good for you, and just because you don't like doesn't mean those.

Mike [01:44:39]:
Things that they're not good for you in the moment, they're actually good for you in the thing, and that's a value there.

Joe [01:44:45]:
Wait, what?

Mike [01:44:46]:
You understand what I said earlier?

Eldar [01:44:48]:
No.

Mike [01:44:48]:
Okay, fine.

Eldar [01:44:49]:
I wasn't realistic.

Mike [01:44:50]:
Okay.

Joe [01:44:50]:
What were you trying to say?

Mike [01:44:51]:
The things that you might not like doing that, you know, like. I mean, I can't even say that anymore, but I do like it. Bringing up my problems, you know, being, like, vulnerable on the podcast and saying out loud all the stupid shit that I've done and sharing that with you know, all the millions of listeners are gonna hear the shit.

Eldar [01:45:08]:
Mm hmm.

Mike [01:45:09]:
I didn't like it. Right. You would say, but I actually do like it.

Joe [01:45:13]:
Yeah.

Denis [01:45:16]:
You learn to like it.

Mike [01:45:17]:
Yeah.

Joe [01:45:17]:
Because it's good for you. Yeah, but at a point, you didn't like doing it, but you challenge yourself to do it.

Mike [01:45:24]:
No, but the point where I actually came to share, I did like it.

Joe [01:45:27]:
Yeah, but at first you didn't.

Eldar [01:45:29]:
There's a transformation.

Mike [01:45:30]:
Yeah.

Joe [01:45:30]:
And if Mike did things that only he liked and didn't do things that he disliked, he wouldn't.

Eldar [01:45:36]:
I'm not sure if he's claiming that he's only doing things that he likes, Joe.

Mike [01:45:39]:
No, no. I said I'm not. I said to them when you were in the bedroom, I'm not doing this.

Eldar [01:45:45]:
Right.

Mike [01:45:46]:
I'm striving to get.

Eldar [01:45:47]:
He's trying, Joe.

Mike [01:45:48]:
Yeah. I'm trying to get to a place that I only do things that I like. Well, I get there by the time my life is over, I.

Joe [01:45:55]:
But before this, we were just talking about that you like smoking, and you're, like, bringing up this idea of you.

Mike [01:46:01]:
But I'm not smoking, though.

Joe [01:46:02]:
I know, but you're bringing up the.

Mike [01:46:03]:
Idea, therefore I'm not doing it. Things that I quote, unquote, like, because. Because in order for you, things that I like, and I didn't say this, but in order for me to do things that I like, they have to line up with the truth. This is the new thing that I believe in and I'm trying to implement in my life.

Joe [01:46:21]:
Okay?

Mike [01:46:22]:
So. And, you know, if they don't, then.

Eldar [01:46:24]:
He'S lying to himself again.

Mike [01:46:25]:
That's why I can happen, and that.

Joe [01:46:27]:
Can happen, and that's why I will stand by to do you. You could smoke. I'm not gonna smoke with you to make you.

Mike [01:46:39]:
Hit the second hand with me or not.

Joe [01:46:41]:
What?

Eldar [01:46:42]:
Second hand smoke.

Joe [01:46:43]:
No, no, I'm not.

Eldar [01:46:45]:
Down with his feet.

Joe [01:46:45]:
Let down the second smoke. Yeah.

Mike [01:46:53]:
That is a big disclaimer. I didn't say it, but I don't know why. But that is the way that I'm trying to live my life, in accordance with the truth. And I believe that if I live in accordance with truth, the result, the byproduct, will be that I'll be happy.

Joe [01:47:08]:
Okay?

Mike [01:47:08]:
Because I am now opening up myself, so understanding how valuable that is, how fruitful it is, the benefits I'm, you know, been reaping in the short term. And I would like to continue that because it makes sense, you know, and I see it for myself. I feel it. And I also have people that I trust.

Eldar [01:47:28]:
He also comes for honest feedback. Right. He's not just going around, just thinking subjectively how he feels and stuff and like, oh, I feel good. I feel good. Yeah. We also see it in the results that we're seeing.

Joe [01:47:38]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:47:38]:
The way he's handling himself, the way he's, you know, working with the business, working with his. Yeah. Families.

Joe [01:47:43]:
Lots of good improvements, good achievements.

Eldar [01:47:46]:
Yeah. We can't wait right now. We about to get on a new journey. He's about to start dating again, and we're excited.

Joe [01:47:51]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:47:51]:
So look out for that. We about to have. Holy shit. My content.

Joe [01:47:54]:
Yeah. And. And I'm happy and pro on all those changes and, like, the new approach you're taking.

Mike [01:48:04]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:48:05]:
Joe's like the godfather that just blesses you.

Joe [01:48:08]:
But if you're coming for advice to these guys about these things.

Mike [01:48:12]:
Yeah.

Joe [01:48:12]:
If you're coming for advice, you have to be open to.

Mike [01:48:16]:
I'm coming for the things that I know consciously that I need advice on.

Eldar [01:48:20]:
Yes.

Joe [01:48:20]:
Well, and you bring up this example, I'm not gonna let it go of this idea to smoke again.

Mike [01:48:26]:
Yeah.

Joe [01:48:26]:
If it's advice you're looking for, you're coming to the wrong guy for the answer you're not looking to get.

Mike [01:48:31]:
Yeah, I'm not coming for advice because I'm not considering it, doing it yet.

Joe [01:48:35]:
But you're bringing it up because you want to bounce the idea off of us or you just want to tell us you're gonna do it.

Eldar [01:48:40]:
No, it was just an example.

Mike [01:48:41]:
No, I was giving an example, but when I brought it up, I. It was just something that came to my mind and I was thinking about it and I was like, oh, this is funny. Like, why would I care for older? Because doesn't guarantee shit. But we'll get what guarantee shit is that? I'll be wiser and then I will. If I. If I be wiser. Yeah. If I'll be wiser, you'll be able.

Eldar [01:48:59]:
To engage in it in such a way where it's controlled to the degree of him getting only happiness from it. Not addiction, not.

Mike [01:49:05]:
Yes.

Eldar [01:49:06]:
Adverse effects and all stuff. However, if there are adverse effects I see on the road.

Joe [01:49:10]:
Yeah, sure.

Mike [01:49:11]:
I'm willing to, you know, take the risky for the business.

Eldar [01:49:13]:
Yeah.

Joe [01:49:13]:
Okay.

Eldar [01:49:14]:
You know, I think. And I actually.

Denis [01:49:17]:
Difficult.

Eldar [01:49:18]:
I actually think that that's the way people, a lot of people should engage in these types of activities, right. Where they're guilty pleasures or whatever they're called, you know, where they don't structure themselves in this crazy as discipline box.

Joe [01:49:28]:
He's talking about discipline.

Eldar [01:49:30]:
Yeah.

Joe [01:49:30]:
Structure.

Eldar [01:49:31]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:49:31]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:49:32]:
That's your. That's your shit. No, you know what I mean?

Mike [01:49:34]:
Yeah. See, the thing is, guilty pleasures are okay. Yeah. I don't have anything wrong with that.

Eldar [01:49:38]:
No. I hope that people develop self control. What I'm saying in wisdom, in order to be able to engage in those in such a way where they can enjoy our occasional coat.

Mike [01:49:45]:
Right.

Eldar [01:49:45]:
And not lose their heads.

Mike [01:49:46]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:49:47]:
But it's very difficult. This is true.

Joe [01:49:49]:
Yes.

Eldar [01:49:49]:
And a lot of people can't master this because. Yes. Addiction is all those things that Dennis did say that it fucks you up physically, that it does make all that about you. That makes you, like, almost, like, crave it and have, like, a. Yeah.

Joe [01:50:04]:
Imbalance.

Eldar [01:50:04]:
Imbalance. Plus are the negative side effects that you. What is it? Withdrawals from.

Mike [01:50:08]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:50:08]:
You know what I mean? And all this other nonsense. It does happen. But do I think people. Some people out there that are masters. Absolutely.

Joe [01:50:14]:
Sure.

Eldar [01:50:15]:
Will you be one of them? I'm not sure.

Mike [01:50:16]:
Maybe.

Joe [01:50:17]:
Hopefully.

Eldar [01:50:18]:
Hopefully. I mean, if. Especially if you identify that saying that it brings you happiness.

Mike [01:50:22]:
Yeah. From what I remember.

Eldar [01:50:24]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:50:24]:
Now, after this last experience, I'm not.

Eldar [01:50:26]:
Yeah. But I also agree with Joe that there is a possibility that you can be replaced with something else. But I think it has to be on your cord.

Mike [01:50:32]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:50:33]:
Mine or Joe's suggestion, why don't you go canoeing going forward? That's gonna bring you lots of, like, same time experience, you know?

Joe [01:50:41]:
As long as you can acknowledge healthy habits from unhealthy.

Eldar [01:50:44]:
Yeah.

Joe [01:50:45]:
And not have to, like, play it. Play it out in a scenario where you're gonna come to a conclusion even though you know, it's a bad habit.

Eldar [01:50:52]:
But I'm also here with him lying to himself and to us.

Joe [01:50:55]:
That's. That's where that part of you comes in.

Eldar [01:50:58]:
Yes.

Joe [01:50:59]:
He's okay with that. Whereas I'm gonna tell you that's unhealthy habit, Mike. I advise you not to do that.

Mike [01:51:04]:
Yeah, but regardless. No, strict.

Joe [01:51:08]:
I'm sorry.

Eldar [01:51:09]:
He's more straight. I just don't want to have an attachment.

Mike [01:51:11]:
Joe has this thing and all that. Has this thing.

Eldar [01:51:13]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I have my reason.

Mike [01:51:15]:
They have their approach. They have different approaches, but nobody's good or bad uncles, of course.

Joe [01:51:20]:
Yeah. And it's all coming from a good place, Mike, it's not like you going.

Mike [01:51:25]:
Like, I know you don't wish me poorly.

Joe [01:51:26]:
No. Yeah. It's not like, hey, I'm really thinking about, you know, getting my real estate license and going, I'm like, nah, because I don't want to see you succeed if, like, that's a bad move by catch me rolling, riding dirty. But, yeah, you know, it comes from a good place. So these are all good influences in your life.

Mike [01:51:44]:
It's a far, far away. Even the way I like your journey.

Joe [01:51:47]:
Versus journey, a lot different.

Mike [01:51:50]:
But before I start smoking, I will. If. Before I. If I start smoking, you'll catch it on the pod. If we, you know.

Joe [01:51:56]:
All right.

Mike [01:51:57]:
Still potting.

Eldar [01:51:58]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:51:59]:
In 2090.

Joe [01:52:00]:
All right. All right, final thoughts?

Eldar [01:52:04]:
Yeah. I think we said a lot about self love. I think we definitely gave a whole bunch of examples of what self love looks like. Right. Unfortunately, a lot of people misunderstand it. Yeah. Misuse it. Don't really understand what it actually means.

Eldar [01:52:16]:
Right. And how to actually display it. But when you do, I think you get to a place where you stop having, I guess, negative talk, that self negative talk. And you're more so proud of yourself. Let's just put it that way. And when you're proud of yourself, you feel happy about that. You're doing metaphysically and physically, things that are actually are aligning with you and bringing you pleasure, then you're good. You know what I mean? But if you're.

Eldar [01:52:37]:
If you're not, the gig's gonna be up, and you're gonna feel the pain one way or the other, mentally or physically, and then you'll know that's kind of the guy that you actually b's in yourself and maybe others. That's my final thoughts.

Joe [01:52:48]:
That's good. And then, you know, hearing that, hearing your take on the doing things that are making you happy, that's a. That's a good form of self love. And, you know, you. You're. You're learning that and you're changing that because you didn't do that in the past, and now you are doing that now, which is a good thing for you. So regardless of how. You know, how you treat yourself, as long as you're doing it in the right.

Joe [01:53:17]:
In the right way.

Eldar [01:53:18]:
Yeah.

Joe [01:53:18]:
Because of Howard, how we're treating ourselves the right way, you know, you're happy. You don't.

Eldar [01:53:24]:
Truth.

Joe [01:53:24]:
Not your truth. The truth, right.

Mike [01:53:26]:
Yeah, the truth. Yeah, absolutely.

Joe [01:53:27]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:53:27]:
My truth.

Eldar [01:53:28]:
No, I think Joe's whole thing is that he just wants to make sure that you have the right head on your shoulders that's making decisions for you. That's it. Right.

Mike [01:53:34]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:53:35]:
If you. In that right head, your right head, you make, you know, you're clear in your decision making, then you're good.

Mike [01:53:40]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:53:40]:
Right?

Joe [01:53:41]:
And if you're around us and you're making ones that we are. That are parent to us and not you, we'll tell you if that helps.

Mike [01:53:48]:
100%.

Eldar [01:53:49]:
Yeah.

Joe [01:53:50]:
You know, disappear in a dark room, and you don't show yourself for a while, you come back out like, yeah, whatever, Mike.

Eldar [01:53:57]:
He's a bad kid. Right, Joe?

Joe [01:53:58]:
Huh?

Eldar [01:53:59]:
He's a bad kid.

Joe [01:54:00]:
Could be.

Eldar [01:54:01]:
Obviously the bad kid.

Mike [01:54:04]:
Right?

Joe [01:54:05]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:54:05]:
Is bad. Paying for all the sins. Right? He's done a lot of bad. Yo.

Mike [01:54:11]:
I have. Yeah.

Joe [01:54:12]:
What's that. What's the term? In the religion thing?

Eldar [01:54:15]:
It's a sin.

Joe [01:54:16]:
Nah, it's, um, when you like.

Eldar [01:54:21]:
Yeah, he's repairing, repenting.

Mike [01:54:22]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:54:23]:
Yeah. But, you know, he's over the cusp is very exciting. Like. Like, now that he's presenting his new self, and. Yeah.

Joe [01:54:30]:
This is the best version of Micah I've ever seen.

Eldar [01:54:31]:
Oh, wow. Wow.

Mike [01:54:34]:
But this is the philosophy bubble. It's not a real life.

Eldar [01:54:36]:
Yeah. Wow.

Mike [01:54:40]:
Yo. Oh.

Eldar [01:54:42]:
How you get a compliment and a jab at the same time? A compliment and a jab at the same time. Oh, yeah. Wow, that's. That's awesome to hear, man.

Joe [01:54:58]:
Of course.

Eldar [01:54:59]:
For sure.

Joe [01:54:59]:
You know, I think everyone. I mean, I could look at everyone. Dennis, you, Archie Farchie over here. Yeah, that's good. It's what we want to see. We want to see us doing good things, living healthy, living happy.

Eldar [01:55:13]:
Yeah.