41. Exploring the Void: Navigating Anxiety, Purpose, and Perfectionism with Katherine

Katherine [00:00:00]:
On this week's episode, I was at a very low point and I've never felt so bad about myself. So you start kind of almost like searching for a way to avoid the pain, right? Like, I want to avoid the downs, you know, like down. Whether it's anxiety or depression, like, you start kind of. You almost make that your goal. Like, I will do anything to not be here.

Eldar [00:00:21]:
In order to do purposeful work, you have to have filled your own cup. So if your cup is barely filled, which is. Gets you through the day and then it depletes again, there's no, there's not. There's no room to find purpose of work. How do you find time for things that you like? If you are doing so many things that you don't like, you can hide for only so long from yourself.

Toliy [00:00:47]:
So what, what, what do you feel that, like, like why, why are you feeling this?

Eldar [00:00:51]:
Like what?

Katherine [00:00:51]:
I don't know. There's a void. There's something is lacking, you know, maybe some sort of. I think that I'm. I lack my purpose. Like, I'm in a place where I don't really know what my purpose is. Like, do you know what I mean?

Mike [00:01:04]:
You know, does it feel like it's something magical in a way that you feel like you're missing, like, energetic energy thing. A magical thing? Because, like, spirituality, like, it feels to me, it has like some kind of magic kind of connotation to it, you know, that's. That's what I thought. I mean, like, good, good energy, positive energy, right?

Katherine [00:01:26]:
Maybe, you know, like, you know, like these questions of, like, what is the meaning of life? What's my purpose? What am I good at? You know, like, I'm struggling even to, like, you know, maybe find something that I'm good at because now I have the time to, you know, like, you know, like, go pursue something that I like. I don't even know what I like, you know, I really. I really don't. I feel like for many years, maybe I was kind of just overwhelmed by, you know, you know, just life, work and all that other stuff that I wasn't like, tuned into these things. But now that I have the time, I don't know how to tap into this stuff.

Mike [00:01:59]:
Okay.

Eldar [00:02:00]:
You know, what if the purpose was in finding yourself, I.

Katherine [00:02:06]:
Well, that's a, you know, kind of. That's where I'm at.

Eldar [00:02:08]:
But finding out who you are, I.

Katherine [00:02:11]:
Don'T really know how to do that, you know.

Eldar [00:02:14]:
No, but how does that resonate to you, like, when I say it, like, Your purpose, your sole purpose in life is actually to find out who you are and what you want to do.

Katherine [00:02:21]:
Well, that's what I feel like. That's exactly what I'm trying to say.

Eldar [00:02:25]:
Isn't that what you're doing?

Katherine [00:02:26]:
I guess.

Eldar [00:02:28]:
Okay.

Katherine [00:02:29]:
I feel like I just. I just don't know if anything that I'm doing is actually leading me there.

Toliy [00:02:34]:
But I don't know.

Katherine [00:02:35]:
I mean, probably say yes, but, like.

Toliy [00:02:38]:
I don't know if purpose is like. Like, I think, like, when. When I'm hearing you talk about it, like, I don't feel that it's like a. Like, I don't think it's like, you find something and, like, that's it. Like, life is over, like, kind of thing. I think that, like. I think Wilder's talking about is more like a. Like a long thing of, like.

Toliy [00:03:03]:
I don't think it takes, like, two years to find out exactly everything about, like. Like, who you are, what you like, what you don't like. And then now you live, I don't know, 50 more years of just loving that out, and you don't, like, think anymore. I think that, like, it might be some kind of thing where it's like. Like finding your purpose is a process of finding your purpose. Like, it's like a double. Like a thing where it's like, your purpose is to find purpose.

Katherine [00:03:29]:
Yeah.

Toliy [00:03:29]:
So if you're already in the process of finding purpose, then you have found your purpose. Right.

Mike [00:03:33]:
Like, that's exactly what I was going.

Toliy [00:03:34]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:03:35]:
Do you understand how you put that? Like, you already on that pursuit. You might not coining it like that. You might not be seeing it like that.

Katherine [00:03:42]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:03:43]:
You know what I'm saying? Because what's happening. Right. A lot of the times I think a lot of people underestimate this. Is that the problems that we've been struggling with. Like your problems, for example, Mike, you're a pretty good example. Right. A long period of time, you've been stuck in the very particular cycle of being. And now you've all.

Eldar [00:04:01]:
Son said, you know what? Wait a second. I'm having a hunch that there's a different way to live life. Right. And I'd like to find that out.

Mike [00:04:09]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:04:10]:
You know what I mean? So you almost pause that cycle. You say, you know what? Pause everybody. I'd like to discover something else.

Mike [00:04:17]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:04:18]:
And I think as soon as that happens, that's when you transition to probably start. The type of purpose that I'm talking about at least, is to find out who you number One, don't want to be right anymore. If you've been causing yourself pain for a very long.

Katherine [00:04:32]:
Yeah, that's a good point.

Eldar [00:04:34]:
Right?

Katherine [00:04:34]:
Because that's huge.

Eldar [00:04:38]:
Yeah, this is huge. Number one. And number two, then maybe one day discover something that you actually do. Like, you know, so like, it's just.

Katherine [00:04:44]:
It just feels really kind of. It like rattles me when I, you know, like when either I talk to my therapist or a life or my life coach and they tell me, you know, like, you know, to focus on the things that I like or like, what are. They'll ask me, like, what are you good at? What have you ever wanted? You know, if there's an interest that I have, so I can take a class or something. And I sit there and I'm like, I mean, there's plenty of things that I like, but I don't know what I'm good at. I don't, I don't know what, you.

Eldar [00:05:13]:
Know, I'm not sure. Yeah, the thing is, I'm not sure if the advice of, hey, why don't you try to do stuff that you like or whatever, immerse yourself in. That is a good advice because you.

Mike [00:05:21]:
Haven'T, you haven't rid yourself, haven't even gotten there.

Eldar [00:05:25]:
Yeah, yeah. You haven't gotten to a point of actually finding out who you are in the first place and what you're suffering from.

Katherine [00:05:30]:
Right.

Eldar [00:05:31]:
So because you're still suffering from those things, it is hard to kind of distract yourself to go and do something that you actually like. You know what I mean? Because those things that you do suffer from still to some degree provide some kind of, some type of purpose that you're not even aware of. Yeah, but they do.

Katherine [00:05:45]:
See, what this clarifies for me is that like, I'm not there yet, you know?

Eldar [00:05:49]:
Well, that's the thing. Like, it's paradoxical. What you're missing, I think, is the buy in into yourself that, that what you're doing, you set out to do in the first place. What, Where Hadass is like, oh, you're not. You keep saying like, oh, I'm not there yet. I'm not doing. I don't know what I'm doing. You actually doing something, you probably are doing it passively and not consciously, but you are doing it totally.

Eldar [00:06:09]:
What do you think about that?

Toliy [00:06:10]:
Yeah, I mean, I mean, for first off, that happened to me all the time where I'm like, I realized something and I'm like, damn, like, should have started this long time ago. And then, and then, but like, passively. I. I probably did start it a long time ago. Right on that. But it's also a thing of like. Like what. What.

Toliy [00:06:29]:
At least I've been noticing, like, the last, like, I don't know, like, three, four weeks or so. May maybe five. I definitely brought up to the guys many times that I have a problem with food.

Eldar [00:06:42]:
Right.

Toliy [00:06:42]:
Like that, like, this is a big problem probably of mine.

Mike [00:06:44]:
Right.

Katherine [00:06:45]:
Mm.

Toliy [00:06:45]:
And I noticed that the last, like, five weeks. Like. Like, I don't care about this problem at all actually. Like, I don't even view it as a product problem anymore.

Eldar [00:06:53]:
Mm.

Toliy [00:06:53]:
For me, because, like, I thought it was, like, I always felt it was, like, holding me back from something. But, like, I guess, like, I think over time, like, whatever problems you think that you have, maybe when you uncover their problems, like, those things that you think are your problems are not like, your problems at all. And like, I haven't even, like, thought about the subject in weeks. It's very interesting, you know.

Eldar [00:07:19]:
When did you went to the transition?

Toliy [00:07:22]:
I don't know. Probably hard, like, the last, like, three.

Eldar [00:07:25]:
Weeks, Three weeks, four weeks. Yeah. Okay.

Toliy [00:07:27]:
Well, I started probably. Yeah, probably like about a month ago.

Eldar [00:07:30]:
Like.

Toliy [00:07:30]:
Yeah, like. Like, I don't know if I'm losing weight or not.

Eldar [00:07:36]:
Yeah. Yeah.

Toliy [00:07:37]:
I'm not sure.

Katherine [00:07:38]:
But wouldn't you say that it makes sense? Like, even how you're viewing or judging that or yourself can have like, a negative impact on you. Like, the moment that you start seeing that instead of as something negative as you don't. You don't. You stop judging it, it might be a lot easier to let to.

Toliy [00:07:59]:
Yeah. So in general, I definitely. Probably within the last, like, two weeks is that I definite. I definitely realized that I did not accept myself. And like, a lot of these different things where I view I have problems or like, stuff like that. Like, I definitely have no acceptance of myself. And then once it starts, once I start to understand I accept myself, then, like, it's almost like the problem, like, starts to leave or starts to, like, go into solution mode of it. But I feel like not accepting of it, like, prevents you from taking any steps towards.

Katherine [00:08:32]:
Oh, for sure. The acknowledgement of it is a great step.

Eldar [00:08:36]:
For sure.

Toliy [00:08:36]:
Yeah. So I don't know if I accepted that or. Or what. But yeah, it's. It, like, it. It completely, like, like, left my mind in that way. Like, Like, I don't care.

Katherine [00:08:44]:
Wow, that's really cool, Mike. That's awesome.

Eldar [00:08:46]:
What do you think?

Mike [00:08:49]:
The transition by his transition?

Eldar [00:08:52]:
No, he.

Mike [00:08:53]:
He.

Eldar [00:08:53]:
That's a Good example. Right?

Katherine [00:08:54]:
That's a great example.

Eldar [00:08:56]:
But what do you think? Also, you went through. Also you're going through a particular transformation. It was pretty clear you voiced it. You know, it was great to experience because we saw a trajectory of it, and then we're seeing. Now we've seen the result as well. Obviously. Still on it.

Mike [00:09:12]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:09:13]:
But did you have that kind of a problem, maybe, that Catherine's describing, about purpose and, you know, like, what's your purpose? Why are you doing it? Like, do you. Did you understand what you were doing at the time, consciously, or was it just kind of subconscious?

Mike [00:09:26]:
No. Yeah. I mean, I think I did. I think. I mean, I could be wrong, but I do think I did have a purpose.

Eldar [00:09:34]:
Mm.

Mike [00:09:34]:
You know, I think I kind of knew it. Some of it. Probably not all of it, but I did feel like I did. But the thing where I went wrong is I was going about it the wrong way, I think.

Eldar [00:09:47]:
Mmm. Okay.

Mike [00:09:48]:
So I was willing to kind of get to a purpose which was not possible to get to, probably.

Eldar [00:09:53]:
Mm.

Mike [00:09:54]:
Because when you do, what do you say, Two wrongs to make a right, you know, so if you keep doing things like a wrong way, it's impossible to get to a good place. So ultimately, yes, I was trying to, I think, get to a good place, a better place, you know, progress, but I was going about it the wrong way. I didn't realize, like, consciously that that's what I was doing, you know? Yeah.

Toliy [00:10:14]:
But, I mean, I don't know if I'm right or not. But I also viewed it as, like. Like, I think that Mike viewed. That was his purpose.

Eldar [00:10:22]:
I think so.

Toliy [00:10:23]:
And I think it shifted where. I think he found a higher purpose.

Eldar [00:10:26]:
I agree with that. Yeah.

Toliy [00:10:29]:
That's all. I view, like, that.

Mike [00:10:31]:
Yeah. I definitely.

Eldar [00:10:31]:
You bought it.

Mike [00:10:32]:
Yeah.

Toliy [00:10:34]:
Is an all be all was to do this, like, thing that he wanted.

Eldar [00:10:37]:
Yeah.

Toliy [00:10:38]:
With that, like, he thought, like, this is what it is.

Eldar [00:10:40]:
Yeah. He bought in.

Toliy [00:10:41]:
And I think he got to a point where he's like, this is not what it is.

Eldar [00:10:44]:
Yeah.

Toliy [00:10:44]:
And he doesn't need this. And then, like, that almost got, like. Again, it's like the thing where it's, like, maybe got dropped, but then it's. But then it's gonna go higher. Higher. But that's. But then, like. Yeah.

Toliy [00:10:56]:
Once you find another purpose and that thing just kind of like, travels with you, it's not like your end all be all anymore. Yeah.

Mike [00:11:03]:
No. Yeah. I think the purpose is a progressive thing.

Toliy [00:11:06]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:11:06]:
I think. I think the purpose is the purpose but the. The purpose is to actually journey. It's not the destination.

Eldar [00:11:13]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:11:13]:
And it's how you do that.

Eldar [00:11:15]:
Yeah. And that's why I think that's where she struggles, because I don't think she has the actual buy in into herself.

Katherine [00:11:21]:
And I'm impatient.

Mike [00:11:22]:
Yeah, well, yeah, she's still like, she's. And I think it's not just her, but most people only. And this ties into what we're talking about earlier. Most people operate out of a goal, and. And the attachment is towards that goal.

Eldar [00:11:34]:
Okay.

Mike [00:11:35]:
And not towards the process of. Just the process. You know, the goal is like. I think I would say people look at the goal as a product of that, but it's not. It's. I mean, the goal is a byproduct of the journey, but people look at the. The don't look at it like that.

Eldar [00:11:59]:
So, babe, what is your goal and why are you looking at the goal after you identify?

Katherine [00:12:05]:
You know, I guess. I guess, like, I mean, I don't know. How do I even vocalize this? Okay.

Eldar [00:12:13]:
I guess I just want to remind you, you did ask for this, though, a couple of weeks back.

Katherine [00:12:18]:
What?

Eldar [00:12:18]:
To be under the gun.

Katherine [00:12:20]:
I did.

Eldar [00:12:21]:
So whatever happens, just brace yourself.

Toliy [00:12:24]:
We're not liable.

Eldar [00:12:26]:
Yeah. Damages in your feelings.

Katherine [00:12:29]:
You guys take it easy on me, okay?

Eldar [00:12:32]:
His best to choose the words carefully.

Katherine [00:12:36]:
I'm very scattered. So sometimes, you know, my thoughts are scattered, but when I start going, I guess, assessing, maybe making an assessment of where I'm at or how I'm feeling. I think I started this because I was. I was at a very low point, and I. I've never felt so bad about myself and criticized myself so harshly as I did, you know, like, let's say that time that I mentioned earlier. So you start kind of almost like searching for a way to avoid the pain. Right. Like, I want to avoid the downs, you know, like down.

Katherine [00:13:12]:
Whether it's anxiety or depression. Like, you start kind of. You almost make that your goal. Like, I will do anything to not be here, you know, and then now through therapy and stuff. So you start kind of like, you know, kind of maybe through awareness and like, you know, you know, kind of looking at yourself. You start like, wondering, well, you know, what are my goals? Where do I want to be? And, you know, in a sense, you want to be where. Like, I want to be where my therapist has been leading me to, like, you know, to do the things that I like to focus on, you know, good things, you know, enjoy myself more, criticize myself less, and things like that. So I start wondering, like, what are the things that I like, you know, I don't know myself.

Katherine [00:13:58]:
Like. Like, I. I don't know what I'm good at. Like, I never did certain things before.

Eldar [00:14:05]:
You continue. Let me ask you this. If I'm listening to this correctly, I'm following the saying that the reason why you wanted to do this in the first place, you know, the therapy and everything else, is to finally find out how to get rid of that which you were experiencing. And as soon as that subdues a little bit. Right. The next steps follow, which is find your purpose, find out what you're good at, see what you like, and stuff like that. But that's not what you were looking for in the first place. You were looking for to remove the pain.

Mike [00:14:30]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:14:31]:
You understand? So now it's not clicking anymore. The pain is gone.

Mike [00:14:35]:
Yeah, well, she's stuck most of the.

Katherine [00:14:37]:
Time, you know, once in a while. Yeah, that's better.

Eldar [00:14:39]:
You're better. You're better.

Katherine [00:14:40]:
But I know how to manage it a little bit better. Still a little hard on myself, but I know how to manage it.

Mike [00:14:46]:
You maybe you plateaued or you reach a certain level or not, and now you're ready to go to, like, level two, correct? You know, or whatever.

Eldar [00:14:53]:
No, I'm not sure if she's.

Katherine [00:14:54]:
I don't know about that.

Mike [00:14:55]:
No, no, no, no.

Eldar [00:14:57]:
She said herself just now, she's not ready. She said, I did this to remove pain. I wanted to do whatever it takes.

Mike [00:15:03]:
Okay.

Eldar [00:15:03]:
To remove pain.

Mike [00:15:04]:
Okay, she removed pain.

Eldar [00:15:06]:
Now she's back at the stable. Right.

Toliy [00:15:08]:
Let's just say she was not that bad.

Eldar [00:15:09]:
It's not that bad anymore.

Katherine [00:15:10]:
No.

Eldar [00:15:10]:
Everything else is not that bad. So now the dragging of the fee begins again. Oh, no, not so bad. Not so bad until you get a dip. And then you ask yourself, wait, wait, wait. Why are we here again? You know what I'm saying? So you never broke through the. The little bit of okayness that you did have because you never gotten better and erased the bottom. Okay.

Eldar [00:15:28]:
You know what I mean? You still got the bottoms.

Mike [00:15:30]:
So you're just saying that she didn't actually clear the level. She's like, no, I don't think.

Eldar [00:15:34]:
She just bandaged.

Katherine [00:15:35]:
Yeah, I feel like I have maybe improved in some things, but some I haven't, you know, like, I'm not as a whole, like, you know, facing, let's say, everything that I'd wanted to fix. I've noticed some improvements, like, for example, setting boundaries with my mom. I'm by no means, like, great at it. But I've been noticing that I'm handling it a little bit better. I'm handling the boundaries better. I'm having, like, less.

Eldar [00:16:04]:
But you still. You still. You still mess up, of course.

Katherine [00:16:08]:
That's why I haven't mastered it. But I may be better. So. So, you know, a year ago, I was really, like, really doing the, you know, checking in with my thoughts, trying to stop the. The anxious thoughts, the rumination, all that stuff. Right. But I really had no idea how to handle, like, let's say, boundaries with my mom. Right.

Katherine [00:16:28]:
I was completely like a fish out of water right now, where I'm at now, even though I'm still very, let's say, beginner level, I'm. I'm like, leaps ahead of where I was before just a year ago.

Mike [00:16:40]:
Yeah.

Katherine [00:16:40]:
So I'm in a better situation with that. But, you know, I have all these other loose ends that I'm.

Eldar [00:16:45]:
Yeah.

Katherine [00:16:46]:
That I'm still trying to pick up. So, you know, it's. It's messy. It's all over the place, you know, so.

Eldar [00:16:53]:
Yeah. So I think she's almost. Based on her. Was her original question was she's almost supposed to be in a limbo of not knowing what's her purpose. Right. Because she didn't really set out to look for it.

Katherine [00:17:05]:
I guess my purpose to turn off all those fires that were going on in my mind.

Mike [00:17:09]:
Well, in that moment, that was the purpose that's done.

Toliy [00:17:13]:
So now, like, purposeful work is like, holy work. Like. Like, I don't think that, like, it's not passive.

Mike [00:17:20]:
You say I'm not there.

Toliy [00:17:21]:
Oh, no, no. I'm saying that, like.

Eldar [00:17:24]:
No, I don't think so. Like, in the beginning.

Toliy [00:17:26]:
Yeah. I feel that like. Like actual purposeful work is like the, like, I don't know, describe it, but, like, inquiry. You can't have like a. Like a collapsing house.

Katherine [00:17:40]:
Right.

Toliy [00:17:41]:
And do purposeful work. Like. Like where you feel that it might be purposeful, but it's like, where you actually feel that, like, it's purposeful. If you have, like, a collapsing house at that time. Like, I think that you have to have, like, a good footing to do that kind of stuff. Because the, like, the reward of purposefulness feeling is like an extremely strong feeling.

Eldar [00:18:07]:
Not only that, but I think that in order to do purposeful work, you have to have. You have. You have to have filled your own cup. Okay. So if your cup is barely filled, which is get you through the day, and then it depletes again, there's no, there's not. There's no room to find purpose of work. There's purpose. Work means pretty much given back, giving away, giving away to somebody else constantly.

Eldar [00:18:30]:
But if you have not learned how to replenish yourself constantly right. Through your own things that you like, where you recharge and stuff like that and became good at that, there's no way that you can get into anything sustainable of purposeful work. You can, you might be able to once in a while tap into that, bow through it, but you burn out really fast, you know what I'm saying?

Katherine [00:18:52]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:18:52]:
So ultimately, you know, I mean, in the beginning at least, before you find any type of purpose to a degree, you have to be a little bit selfish to find self love first. You know what I mean?

Katherine [00:19:02]:
Yeah. It's a long road. Especially like when you didn't have that before.

Eldar [00:19:06]:
Yes, yes. When you find the self love and you became good at self love. Right. I think then you start filling yourself up more and more and more and more and more and then you like, wait a second. So kind of good. I feel kind of good.

Mike [00:19:20]:
Where?

Eldar [00:19:20]:
To a point where it's like, I don't only have for myself actually have some more to give.

Mike [00:19:26]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:19:26]:
You know what I mean? And then you can start giving that back in the purposeful way, hopefully. Which is. I think it's inevitable at that point.

Katherine [00:19:35]:
You know, that makes total sense.

Toliy [00:19:37]:
Yeah. Yeah.

Eldar [00:19:38]:
What are you gonna do about it?

Toliy [00:19:40]:
Good way of like finding out, like what, what you like is like doing a bunch of things and then probably like thinking about, like what things do you actually still do that you don't have to like plan, schedule or like make sure that you do. Because I think that like anything that anyone likes to do, there's no such thing as like, I have to find.

Mike [00:20:04]:
Time or like, I would, I would say maybe what I've been at least watch like learning about myself and other people recently in the past weeks, what you're saying, it's not finding what you like, maybe it's finding and removing things you don't like that you're doing that stop you from finding the time to do things you like and discovering. Because it's very confusing the things that we think that we like. Those things are very confusing.

Eldar [00:20:34]:
Yes.

Mike [00:20:34]:
Because they could be rooted in a lot of weird, funny things.

Eldar [00:20:38]:
My example. Be my example. Basketball.

Mike [00:20:39]:
Yeah. Like elder's example of basketball.

Eldar [00:20:44]:
You know the way I used to engage in basketball.

Mike [00:20:47]:
Yeah. The way you used to play. You didn't. It was no good for you. And Yeah, I think in those moments you didn't like it because it was. The engagement with it was not healthy. For sure.

Eldar [00:21:00]:
I was overexerting myself. So what was happening is that I was convinced that I was doing something for myself and I liked it. Yes. But every time the result came out to be, I'm complaining about getting hurt and pain. I keep getting into injuries and pain and I'm not happy with myself.

Mike [00:21:15]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:21:16]:
So how am I. But I was tricking myself to think that this is what was actually, you know, making me feel good.

Mike [00:21:21]:
That's.

Eldar [00:21:22]:
That's an example, my example where I was engaging in something that I thought was good, but I was completely off.

Mike [00:21:28]:
Yeah, that, I mean, like, and for me, that definitely I've been trying to remove things that I don't think bring me happiness to my life, you know, like the things that cause me anxiety or maybe, or not anxiety, but it caused me stress, let's say, you know, and things that I engage in, like something simple. Like just a few weeks ago, maybe a month ago, I used to have like emails for all my business accounts. And just like a month ago, I just turned it off because I caught myself, like checking it all the time and like worrying about it and then answering stuff that I didn't really want to answer. Like, I know that whatever it was like I was doing things like, like I have a schedule that I want to work, that it's part of self love for me. Like, hey, I'm in office these hours, outside of these hours. I don't want to like, look at those emails. But because it was available, you know, I would check it. So I think that was contributing to a bad habit, you know, So I removed it because I realized, like, this is not serving me a purpose.

Mike [00:22:31]:
There's also probably like, you know, being control freak, want to make sure that everything's going, everything's fine, you know, in the emails, like customers, whatever, you know, like maybe, you know, worrying that there's a fire, you know, like all those crazy things that we made up that I maybe made up before when I was like a, you know, control freak boss or whatever, you know. So I guess to me those things are easy to, easy as well to spot because pain, pain is a very strong one. It's a strong, like indicator of what's going on, you know, like those pain points are easy to spot. The foam points, I think they're also easy to spot, but sometimes they hide.

Eldar [00:23:08]:
Yeah, that's a very good point. What you say, Mike? I think that the first Thing you might want to become good at is to learn and become sensitive to pain again.

Mike [00:23:17]:
Yeah, Makes sense.

Katherine [00:23:21]:
Pain can be your teacher.

Mike [00:23:23]:
Yeah, yeah.

Eldar [00:23:24]:
Well, it is. But sooner or later you're gonna have to see that it's, you know, choose whether or not you want the pain in your life actually.

Mike [00:23:31]:
But it's like a primitive teacher, I would say, right?

Eldar [00:23:34]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a very.

Toliy [00:23:37]:
Before it gets like blurred into normalcy.

Mike [00:23:39]:
Yes, correct.

Eldar [00:23:40]:
Well, that's what I'm saying a lot. What he's making example. And I made an example for you, right. With my example is that you doing stuff right now that you are under impression that they actually serve you. You have no idea that it's actually really, really bad for you. And until you open that up and see it and slow down and actually pay attention to the sensitivity, like I said, to what's actually happening to you, you will not be able to identify it. But you actually are causing yourself pain right now as you sit here. Even you have stuff that's going on in your mind based on what you thought.

Eldar [00:24:10]:
Like, I need to do this, I need to do that. It's actually what he said is correct.

Mike [00:24:16]:
You gotta just like in the like, for like a day plan, you gotta be like, yo, today I want to wake up, brush my teeth.

Eldar [00:24:21]:
Yep.

Mike [00:24:22]:
And have tea. And that's all I got for today, for example. Not that crazy.

Katherine [00:24:25]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:24:26]:
And then shock yourself. And then you start saying, okay, I could take on one more thing or, you know.

Eldar [00:24:32]:
Correct.

Mike [00:24:33]:
And. Or I can remove one more thing.

Eldar [00:24:35]:
Or one thing at a time.

Mike [00:24:36]:
One thing at a time. Yeah, yeah. Because once you get going, you like, you have like. I guess. Yeah. We have no idea how many things that we do that are automated. Yeah. You have only limit automation.

Katherine [00:24:46]:
You know, I'm thinking right now about everything I have to get done tomorrow.

Mike [00:24:50]:
Yeah, yeah.

Eldar [00:24:51]:
You're a total nut.

Katherine [00:24:52]:
I'm enough.

Mike [00:24:53]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And that's why those things, they cause you pain and those things you don't probably. You don't want to do. You probably don't like them. You know, like.

Eldar [00:25:01]:
Correct.

Mike [00:25:01]:
Thinking about, you know, recently, probably not good at it.

Eldar [00:25:05]:
Oh, no, I didn't say that out loud.

Mike [00:25:07]:
Thinking. Thinking about the.

Eldar [00:25:10]:
Wow.

Mike [00:25:11]:
Thinking about the college thing that you kind of just embarked on recently. Right. Like you thought you liked it, but here you're realizing that you actually don't like it that much or you don't like all of it.

Katherine [00:25:22]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:25:23]:
Right. And now you're. I'm not sure if you're still doing it, but you're in a class, you're not enjoying it, you're kind of putting yourself through it, you know, for something that. How do you actually know that you really like this subject that you're doing, you know? Or is it, you know, essentially what it is? What is it? Or is it just a distraction?

Katherine [00:25:41]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:25:41]:
From everything that you want that you have going on.

Katherine [00:25:44]:
The only thing I can say good about that is that, like, I stepped into doing something new. Just trying something new, which is usually typically pretty hard for me.

Mike [00:25:51]:
Okay.

Katherine [00:25:51]:
That's the only thing I could say I extracted that from, but from. It's again, like, you know, this, this advice of, like, you know, go find what you like or go. So you kind of try things and then realize, like, wait a second, I might not really.

Mike [00:26:06]:
Yeah, I think it's hard to go find some. I think that's hard to find room for something that you like when you're doing so much of the things you don't like. Where can you actually find the room?

Katherine [00:26:15]:
Yeah, Mic drop for Mike.

Eldar [00:26:17]:
Yeah, yeah, that's for the ones that have bad hearing. Can you please repeat that but one second, please? Okay.

Mike [00:26:25]:
Okay.

Katherine [00:26:26]:
He just wants to write down his notes. Yeah, you know, that's, that's a good point. Because if I sit here and really analyze, I'm still doing the things that I don't like. I still do. And I beat myself over a lot of silly things, which is like, you know, stuff at home, cooking or, you know, like going to like, like really trivial stuff, you know, and then I'm like, well, how am I going to fit this around? Like, you know, maybe going to this class at the gym. I just, it's the silliest things and I just kind of can't figure out sometimes it's very silly things.

Mike [00:26:58]:
Yeah.

Katherine [00:26:58]:
You know?

Mike [00:26:59]:
Yeah, I know, but those things, like, totally.

Eldar [00:27:03]:
She your long lost sister from the, from the mountains or.

Toliy [00:27:05]:
No, definitely it might be some like, Egyptian.

Mike [00:27:07]:
Like, like everything she says is like.

Eldar [00:27:10]:
You like, yo, this person. Like, I know this person. Right.

Katherine [00:27:12]:
You can identify with.

Eldar [00:27:13]:
What do you mean? She can run circles around your things. Thousand times.

Katherine [00:27:17]:
No way.

Eldar [00:27:18]:
Thousand times. He knows this like the, like the back of your hand.

Toliy [00:27:21]:
Yeah, I, I was gonna say that. I, I.

Eldar [00:27:23]:
Wait one second before you say that. Mike, can you read that, what you said?

Mike [00:27:25]:
Yeah, I said just listen to the podcast.

Eldar [00:27:27]:
Oh, that's true.

Mike [00:27:29]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:27:31]:
Mike just said something two minutes ago.

Katherine [00:27:32]:
If you're listening.

Eldar [00:27:34]:
Okay.

Mike [00:27:34]:
Yeah. I'm not sure if you say the same way, but it was like, it's hard to find time.

Toliy [00:27:40]:
How could you find.

Mike [00:27:41]:
How do you find time for things that you like when you're doing so many things that you don't like?

Katherine [00:27:46]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:27:47]:
And you don't have the time, you just gotta listen. Yeah. Yeah. It definitely sounded more like a authenticious.

Katherine [00:27:55]:
It was. It was also like the umph in the moment. It was the right moment. You know how you said it? Yeah.

Mike [00:28:03]:
I said that intentionally, actually. If you never seen the movie the.

Eldar [00:28:06]:
Town, how do you find time for things that you like if you are doing so many things that you don't like?

Mike [00:28:12]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Toliy [00:28:15]:
I was gonna say. Yeah. I definitely, from everything I'm hearing, I definitely feel like you have that product problem. Like, like the same problem as me when it comes to, like, if you have a big problem, you have a very difficult time. Like, you are seeking big solutions for big problems and you're not, like, willing to take small solutions for big problems.

Katherine [00:28:40]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:28:40]:
See, did you understand what he said or why is he saying that in the first place?

Katherine [00:28:43]:
What I'm thinking is I could really make a decision, even for a small problem.

Eldar [00:28:49]:
Yeah.

Katherine [00:28:49]:
So, like, I'm completely unequipped for any kind of decision making.

Eldar [00:28:54]:
Yeah.

Katherine [00:28:55]:
I find. I find myself sometimes I can't make the simplest decision, but it's because I've overwhelmed myself so much.

Eldar [00:29:02]:
But you burnt out.

Katherine [00:29:03]:
I'm completely burnt out.

Toliy [00:29:05]:
I can't even believe she asked me.

Eldar [00:29:07]:
Like, the most basic stuff. Like, basic, like, should I go to this place before I go to that place?

Katherine [00:29:11]:
I can't even make a decision on that. Oh, yeah. It's. It's bad. It's really bad sometimes. Yeah. And I. And it's crazy to me because I told myself I have the most flexible schedule I've ever had in my life.

Katherine [00:29:24]:
Elder is extremely supportive and, like, understands sometimes what I'm going through. And I still. I'm my biggest enemy. Like, I keep myself from waking up at least one day a week and just saying, today I'm going to just have tea and then just see what the day brings. Nope. I'm like, filling my day with, like, complete nonsense. I don't even know what it is that I'm doing all day.

Eldar [00:29:45]:
You know that after 14. 14 years, I set this up for you this way you got set up.

Katherine [00:29:49]:
So I could drive myself crazy. There's no. There's no hiding from it. I can't hide from it.

Eldar [00:29:59]:
The gig is up.

Katherine [00:29:59]:
Yeah. I have to look myself in the. In the face, in the mirror, you.

Eldar [00:30:04]:
Know, you can hide for only so long from yourself.

Mike [00:30:05]:
Yeah, well, I think that's. Yeah. I think, like, you know, I think Tommy said, I think you got to take two weeks off. You know, I think we, like. Yeah. I think that thing of you being overwhelmed and thinking you have a million things to do.

Katherine [00:30:21]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:30:22]:
Yeah. You gotta, like.

Eldar [00:30:23]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:30:24]:
Take some time and remove some of those.

Eldar [00:30:26]:
Reevaluate, revalue. Yeah.

Mike [00:30:28]:
Evaluate those things. And there's nothing. Like, there's nothing wrong with.

Eldar [00:30:31]:
No, there's a lot of wrong because you. As you start putting those small things on the board and discuss as to why you add why to those things, you quickly find out you have no good reasons as to why you behave.

Mike [00:30:42]:
Oh, yeah.

Eldar [00:30:43]:
What's gonna happen is you're going to expose your forward thinking. You're going to be feeling embarrassed. Only through that type of a thing. Not everybody's able to withstand that kind of thing. You can go through, like, okay, I'm a complete idiot. It's time to change.

Mike [00:30:56]:
But that. The good thing is that if you go through that, there's a good reward at the end of the rainbow.

Eldar [00:31:00]:
100%. But you can't convince anybody of your imagination, bro. That's in your imagination.

Katherine [00:31:06]:
When do we. When do we have a board meeting? When do we have my board meeting?

Eldar [00:31:11]:
I like that.

Katherine [00:31:12]:
Listen, I'm ready to erase that board. That board is not big enough for me.

Mike [00:31:17]:
That's what you think.

Katherine [00:31:18]:
That's what you think it needs to be the size of this.

Eldar [00:31:20]:
Oh, this big bad wolf with a problem.

Mike [00:31:22]:
There's, like, only. There's only three.

Eldar [00:31:25]:
There's.

Mike [00:31:25]:
There's like, maybe three things that you actually want from life. There's maybe two or three things that you actually. That are.

Katherine [00:31:31]:
Actually, I'm good with even just getting one. One thing.

Mike [00:31:34]:
You know, there's. There's nothing actually that is big that exists out there.

Katherine [00:31:38]:
Yeah. No. Yeah.

Mike [00:31:40]:
Like, when I also thought my. My thing was big, but I have the picture of, like, my dreams and this. It's. It's three dreams, realistically. Right. What? Everything else is just fillers, you know, like, it's not important stuff.

Katherine [00:31:53]:
Yeah, it's a lot of filler, but.

Mike [00:31:55]:
You know, it's more. Those dreams are the dreams, but it's how you achieve those dreams. That's where the, you know, that's the. Where the interesting stuff is, you know, if that. I don't know if that makes any sense, like. But at least that's what. That's what I realized for myself. Yeah.

Eldar [00:32:17]:
Okay. Yeah, we're ready when you are.

Mike [00:32:20]:
Yeah, for sure.

Eldar [00:32:21]:
You know, because, you know, it's, it's.

Mike [00:32:24]:
It's definitely an cat saying that she wants to do a video podcast this time.

Eldar [00:32:29]:
Video podcast.

Katherine [00:32:30]:
Can I put a bag over my head?

Mike [00:32:32]:
No. A video of the board, actually.

Toliy [00:32:34]:
It's funny that there, there, there's like in general a meme. But this does happen, like when there's like die hard sports fans of teams who suck. They'll show them on tv. They'll intentionally come with like a bag over their head to like, like protest in a ways that like, yo, we're here, but we're a bit shameful to be.

Eldar [00:32:49]:
Oh my God, like embarrassed to be.

Toliy [00:32:50]:
They'll put a paper bag over their head and they'll put like eyes and like a nose cut out. It's like a meme thing.

Eldar [00:32:56]:
And they'll watch the whole game like that.

Toliy [00:32:58]:
I don't know if they have it on the whole time.

Eldar [00:33:00]:
Oh, okay, okay.

Toliy [00:33:00]:
It's like a disc, just a meme. And then like when the news broadcast comes, they're like, yo, like your fans have bags over their heads because they're shameful.

Eldar [00:33:07]:
Wow, that's a thing there. That's fine.

Mike [00:33:09]:
Yeah.

Toliy [00:33:09]:
Because if your team sucks but you're still a die hard follower, it's like you should be a bit shameful.

Mike [00:33:15]:
Like the new drug nicks.

Eldar [00:33:17]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's funny.

Toliy [00:33:22]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, like one, one. One recent thing that I was thinking about in general is that like, like I have a lot of what again, what I think are big problems, obviously, or not.

Eldar [00:33:36]:
Right.

Toliy [00:33:37]:
But there's times in my life where I view them as very big prop of problems. And until I think of like a big solution that matches it, I will not even like not willing to take any conscious steps of like going about like solving it because it's like you got a big problem. Like, how can you go and take like small steps, like it, like it off. Like it oftentimes for that person, it doesn't make sense. Like, like I would think that if you're like buzzing around doing all these different things for someone to tell you, like just wake up and make or goal to drink tea. Like I could picture that not sitting well, well with you. Like, but like where it's almost like internally you're like Mike. But that's not even like a.

Toliy [00:34:23]:
How is that gonna help me? Like that, that, that, that's kind of what, what I would think.

Eldar [00:34:30]:
Like, it won't, it won't settle. Well, because you've already probably appointed yourself as the person who finds solutions to these problems on your own. But you haven't been very good at it.

Katherine [00:34:38]:
No.

Eldar [00:34:39]:
But nonetheless, you still esteem yourself as.

Katherine [00:34:40]:
That good at it.

Eldar [00:34:42]:
But in the moments when you act, you actually do kind of like, yeah. Promote yourself.

Toliy [00:34:46]:
That's a very confusing thing.

Eldar [00:34:48]:
Right.

Toliy [00:34:48]:
Like, where, like, I could say, like, hey, like, I've proven to myself that, like, I don't know anything about this subject.

Katherine [00:34:54]:
Yeah.

Toliy [00:34:54]:
But then, like, my actions will show that, like, I actually do know a lot about the subject is how I feel. Right. So it's like, if you're saying that you're not a good decision maker, but you're still making decisions, like, every day, this stuff. Right. You're approved of proving that, like, you still view yourself as, like, a competent decision maker.

Mike [00:35:16]:
Yeah.

Toliy [00:35:17]:
By actually still making those decisions over and over. Yeah. And that. That's like a hard. Like, a lot of times I feel like that stuff is happening unconsciously, I think.

Katherine [00:35:28]:
I think that's our default of just doing something that's familiar, but in a way. But I wanted to go back to your, you know, like, feeling when you feel that the solution has to be something very big.

Toliy [00:35:43]:
Yes.

Katherine [00:35:45]:
That. I think that if we. If we are that similar, I think that it's usually something very small that feels very big. It might not be something big, but.

Toliy [00:35:54]:
Like, when it comes to the problem or to the solution.

Katherine [00:35:57]:
For example, like when we had you up on the board and then we thought, like, okay, you know, what if we remove Toli's smartphone so he can find time, for example, and now you have this one. It seems like a easy solution, but did it feel small at the. It probably felt very overwhelming.

Eldar [00:36:15]:
Right.

Katherine [00:36:16]:
I would actually feel very overwhelmed to have to switch over my phone to something different. I would just. It sounds very. It sounds overwhelming to me, but it seems like the right small solution.

Eldar [00:36:28]:
They got them held hostage, bro.

Mike [00:36:29]:
Yeah.

Katherine [00:36:31]:
But it's a big deal. It feels huge. So even a small. Something small can feel very big. Or maybe something big doesn't feel.

Eldar [00:36:38]:
Yeah.

Toliy [00:36:38]:
Well, it's also the thing of, like. Yeah, it's. It's. In general, I feel like. In general, people have a. Like. Like, Like, like, like we learned. We somehow, I think, like, improperly learned the scales of things of, like, what.

Toliy [00:36:59]:
What. What is actually big and what is actually small and like, to, like, maneuver and distinguish all these different things. I think somehow, like, we learned the wrong things, like, about that and then. But like, again, like, we. We were talking about this on like, the walk today, there's a lot of things that are going on, like, passively, that you're not, like, conscious about. About, like, assumptions that, like, where you're saying that, like, you're competent.

Eldar [00:37:30]:
Right?

Toliy [00:37:30]:
Like, and it's difficult to figure out actually what's going on because of those things, because, like, they're very tricky in how they act, because it's like, they're happening, but you're not realizing that, like, it's happening. So it's like, almost like, how do you find out those things? Like, I think when it comes to getting to know yourself, I think that, like, that is the most difficult obstacle in doing that, because it's like, what things are just going on in your life that you either like or don't like, that you don't know that are even happening. Like, I'm not sure if that makes sense.

Eldar [00:38:11]:
All right, check this out. I'll give you an example. All right? You want to cook good pasta, very good pasta, but you don't know how. Okay? You've been cooking pasta for a very long time, and you come to a chef who actually knows how to cook very good pasta, right? And you're like, can you make me, like, how long. How many minutes do I have to keep it on a boil? On the water. Right? On the boil, in order to make a pasta. He looks at you and says, that doesn't matter. Tell me what kind of water you're using.

Eldar [00:38:35]:
You already filled up the water, you know what I mean? With regular tap water. He dumps the water and goes, see, you making a mistake somewhere else. You actually have to be using a distilled water in order to make the best pasta. So what's happening is that you. Assuming that the problem is how long you cook the pasta for? 5 minutes, 6 minutes, 7 minutes. He looks at it and says, tell me what kind of water you're using. You want the impression that you don't have to think about the water. He tells you, using the wrong water.

Eldar [00:39:00]:
You understand? So that's an example where you might be under impression that everything that you're doing somewhere else is correct, but the back end you need to solve with a particular solution, but it's not it at all. So you're just.

Toliy [00:39:11]:
And lots of times it's those, like, very simple things.

Eldar [00:39:14]:
Yeah.

Toliy [00:39:15]:
That are, like, almost like, if you told somebody, if you asked, like, it's. It's those things. I feel like they're like, if you brought up questions about them to, like, I don't know, just like, to like, the average person, they might, like, make laugh at you, like, thinking, like, how could you be, like, even, like.

Eldar [00:39:31]:
Yeah.

Toliy [00:39:31]:
Questioning.

Eldar [00:39:32]:
Disrespectful.

Toliy [00:39:32]:
Yeah. And I think what also happens, that example, the cycle that happens over and over again. And I think that why the change in general is so difficult is because, like, you come to that chef and you ask him how long to cook something, and he brings up the water, right?

Eldar [00:39:47]:
Yep.

Toliy [00:39:47]:
What you go is you leave and you go fill up the water. Right. And then you're like, okay, the water is good. Now you ask him again, like, how long do you do this for? And then he's like, well, what kind of pot are you using? And then they're like, oh, I'm doing a cast iron pot. He's like, no, you have to use a steel pot Right. Now you leave again, and you have to go dump out the water again. Right. Find a new pot.

Toliy [00:40:10]:
Right. And then you come back, and then you got the new pot, you got the new water, and you ask the same question again. So how long do I have to make it? And then. And then he's like, well, how are you putting in, like, the pasta when you do it or something? Right, right.

Eldar [00:40:23]:
What kind of pasta are you using?

Toliy [00:40:25]:
Yeah. It's like a vicious cycle of, like, you're asking something specific, which would. Which. Which I think that. I'm not sure if we, like, determined that or we just, like, agreed upon it, but, like, asking for help on a particular thing is ego driven.

Eldar [00:40:43]:
Yeah. So what's happening is that you're. You're asking for a particular steps. Correct, Correct. Correct. Where you actually have to up, I don't know, uproot everything. That means you have to completely come with a clean slate and say, I'd like to find out how to make pasta, not how long do you cook this pasta?

Toliy [00:41:03]:
Yes. But it's very hard to ask that question.

Katherine [00:41:06]:
Yeah. Because internally, like, oh, shit, I don't know.

Toliy [00:41:10]:
Yeah. Like, internally, you may know that you know certain things, and naturally, if you know some of those things, like, it's almost like people don't want to be taught the things that they already kind of know. Like that. That doesn't, like, sit well with people.

Eldar [00:41:24]:
Right.

Toliy [00:41:24]:
If they're the impressions, that's why they're not gonna say, how do I make pasta? Because it's also, like, just asking that. Yeah. Yeah. It's very hard just to ask that because it's like, what? Like, you don't have to fill up, like, water or, like. Or like that. Yeah.

Eldar [00:41:42]:
Like, yeah, like, you know, you call me for a particular solution a lot of times, but what happens is when you start uncovering as to what exactly you're doing, like what kind of equipment are you using to cook this pasta? Right. You quickly find out that you actually got it wrong way before that. So you can't sit through it because your ego now gets attacked. Right. So what happens is you actually close off and you don't actually become receptive anymore to what actually needs to be received. Because you didn't come for that. You came for how much time do I need to cook this pasta for? That's what you came for. While he's sending you back and saying, hey, you need to change this, this, this and that.

Eldar [00:42:17]:
You're like, I don't have time for that. I don't have time for that. I just need to know how many minutes I need to go. You know what I'm saying?

Katherine [00:42:24]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:42:25]:
That's just an example. Right. So what a lot of times happens, I think in these types of scenarios as well is that you put something on the board and say I got this problem, quickly find out that's not the problem that you need to be tackling in the first place. You are in the impression that you have a problem with that problem. You got something else coming for you.

Katherine [00:42:42]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:42:42]:
And that is the interesting phenomenon.

Toliy [00:42:45]:
Yeah, it's like to be like a proper good like self diagnostics like tool I think is very like rare. Where it's like you, you almost know exactly like what you. I mean like that, I mean that might be like a goal I guess to tried. I mean like if you're, yeah. If, like you would be in a very great place if you can identify those things and be correct about them.

Eldar [00:43:13]:
Sure.

Toliy [00:43:13]:
Like that, that would mean that you're like a sick, like a, like a wizard.

Eldar [00:43:17]:
Yeah.

Toliy [00:43:18]:
Because yeah. Oftentimes it's like. Yeah, like for me at least, I mean like, I mean I thought I broke through like I don't know, like six years ago.

Eldar [00:43:27]:
And you did.

Katherine [00:43:29]:
Yeah, you did like you did do.

Eldar [00:43:30]:
Some stuff, you know, you did you make progress.

Katherine [00:43:33]:
I got you here.

Toliy [00:43:35]:
Yeah, yeah. But, but like progress. Yeah, but, but, but the problem is that happens is that like maybe when you solve some things you can get lax and then you just like stop like the, the progression up and before you know it like, like your, like what you, what you what like is happening? Like, like I, I think that like your, I don't know if it's like appetite or like you're like, I Know.

Eldar [00:44:06]:
How to say it?

Toliy [00:44:07]:
Like, something like, those two things are not supposed to, like, catch up to each other. You know what I'm saying? Like, like, your appetite for, like, bettering yourself or whatever, and what you're actually, like, like, living out or whatever. I'm not sure if, like, I mean, maybe it might be a goal for them to properly catch up, but when they, like, catch up, then you then, like, everything starts spilling out. Like, I feel like that that's when it's bad.

Eldar [00:44:36]:
There's no synchronicity, you say, you know.

Toliy [00:44:38]:
Yeah, but what I was gonna say before is that, like, the vicious cycle happens of, like, you thinking that you have particular problem and you're trying to, like, overthink these solutions for it, and then you just, like, keep coming back to the same, like, problems over and over again. Because, like, you were wrong from the beginning of, like, the process that you're taking, the questions you're asking, the problems you're even trying to solve, like, oftentimes are either not existent or not even, like, the right things. And then you just go over and over again. And then, like, instead of just right away from the beginning saying, how do you make pasta? You have to run back and forth, trying to, like, follow these, like, things and realize, okay, wrong pot, Right? You go back, all right? And then you just keep, keep, keep doing this. And it's just like. It's definitely, like, a. Like, a shitty cycle over and over again.

Eldar [00:45:34]:
So then how do you submit from the start? How do you submit? How do you actually come with the right question is to say, like, okay, cool. Like, I actually don't know this, and I'm an open, open slate.

Mike [00:45:43]:
You say, hey, like, not in a generic way.

Eldar [00:45:48]:
The request has to be made, right?

Mike [00:45:50]:
No, that's not it. I'm not done in a generic way. It comes back to what we talked about. You got to say, hey, I have this pain from this. Can you tell me what the core of it is? Where is the root here? I think a lot of the times we're like, oh, like, I'll say, oh, I'm overweight. I gotta stop eating past seven. Oh, I gotta stop doing this. You actually overweight.

Mike [00:46:12]:
That has nothing to do with food or eating or anything.

Eldar [00:46:14]:
What? Time?

Mike [00:46:15]:
Yeah, or time. Your problem is, you know, it could be that you use food as a coping mechanism. And I probably will venture out and say that when you eat out of those kind of ways, your food does not get digest properly.

Eldar [00:46:31]:
Mmm.

Mike [00:46:32]:
So your shit is all going straight to wow.

Toliy [00:46:35]:
Yeah. I'M trying to think, like.

Mike [00:46:38]:
Well, yeah, yeah, no, yeah, I'm trying to think.

Toliy [00:46:42]:
Is.

Eldar [00:46:42]:
I.

Toliy [00:46:42]:
Like, what you ask, I think is, like, a very good questions, like, how do you actually come? Wait, like, when you're experiencing something that, like, you don't like in. In life. Right. How do you actually come?

Eldar [00:46:56]:
The thing is. Yeah, the thing is, you actually have to come. You're not usually coming. You know what I mean?

Katherine [00:47:02]:
Like, show up. You have to show up.

Eldar [00:47:04]:
You have to show up. You gotta buy into yourself. You got to buy into the process.

Toliy [00:47:08]:
No, no, I know, but, like, how do you have that? Like, it's not going forward.

Eldar [00:47:12]:
I'm just gonna ask these questions. No, it's not. It.

Toliy [00:47:15]:
No, no, no. What I'm saying is that, like, how do you show up with the energy that you actually, like, want to learn how to make pasta?

Eldar [00:47:23]:
Mm.

Toliy [00:47:23]:
Because, like, there's things inside of you that lead you to believe that, Like. Wait, hold on. Like, if there's 20 things you have to know, you know five of these. So it's not like you don't to say, how do you make pasta? Because you already know five of them or 10 of them.

Eldar [00:47:36]:
Right.

Toliy [00:47:37]:
Out of 20. It's just, like, what has to click for you to maybe, like, maybe almost shift from, like, okay, that you know how to do these things versus, like, you could know some of these steps, but you're open to, like, rehearing them over again almost. Right. Because it's very difficult, like, you can't convince yourself, like, until push comes to shove, that you don't know something. If you feel internally that, like, you do know something. You do.

Eldar [00:48:08]:
I agree. Like.

Toliy [00:48:08]:
Like. Like. Like, if someone said, like, hey, Cat, like, you don't know anything about interior design, like, is there a way right now that you could agree with that?

Katherine [00:48:20]:
I mean, technically, like, I. I don't have, like, actual education for it or anything like that.

Toliy [00:48:26]:
Okay. Like, it would.

Katherine [00:48:27]:
It would definitely, like, hurt. It would hurt my feelings. Like. Yeah, but.

Toliy [00:48:31]:
But, like, you know, if. If you feel that, like, you do know some things. Right. It would be like, it would sit weird with you. Right. Like, a feeling of, like, you wouldn't be able to believe that, like, you don't know anything just. Just from that, like, statement. Right.

Katherine [00:48:45]:
Mm.

Toliy [00:48:47]:
So. So that's what I'm saying is that, like, what do you think needs to be done to. For that kind of thing to, like.

Mike [00:48:54]:
You have to buy in.

Eldar [00:48:56]:
Yeah. Into the process.

Katherine [00:48:57]:
I mean, you also have to. You got to be like, it's. It's a humble approach?

Eldar [00:49:01]:
Well, yeah, you have to set your.

Katherine [00:49:02]:
Ego down and say, like, I need help or I need help.

Eldar [00:49:06]:
I think there's a reason why Socrates went around and said, I don't know. You know what I mean? I think he probably found the key. But, you know, which triggers by you clearly saying that. I don't know. Right. Allows you to become humble. Allows you to then let in.

Katherine [00:49:20]:
But how do you have to believe.

Toliy [00:49:22]:
That outside of just saying.

Katherine [00:49:23]:
You can't just say it without believing.

Mike [00:49:25]:
You gotta. Like, for me, you know, like, I'm not saying I'm doing this and everything, but in the, like, with the process that I went through and when we talked about being humble, I think I said, if I have any. Think any problems I, like, solve. I know. I know that I have to become humble.

Eldar [00:49:49]:
Right? Yeah.

Mike [00:49:50]:
Because I, like, I felt like that's what it took for me to get to the success level that I'm getting to now or what I'm feeling now. So through that process, I think I bought into the fact that, hey, like, if I come into situation that I'm consciously aware of that it's not like I'm not doing well in it and it's causing me pain. I know that I can rely on humility.

Eldar [00:50:11]:
Mmm.

Mike [00:50:12]:
To come and ask for help. Like, I kind of. Like, I'm not sure if I bought in. Time will tell. But, like, I feel like that's a huge, huge. That was a huge thing of buying in is like, humility. Humility. And.

Toliy [00:50:26]:
No, but, like, when you actually feel internally that, like, you do know something on this. How do you, like, like, what.

Mike [00:50:33]:
What.

Toliy [00:50:33]:
What series of steps do you take to. To not believe that? Like, how do you go from, like.

Mike [00:50:40]:
Yeah, I don't. Can you ever circumvent that? I'm sure if it's meant to be circumvented, I think you actually have to get humbled. Either you're gonna be like, yeah, you know what? Choose to be humble and come for help, or life and pain and suffering will keep beating you down. And you're like, okay, well, now I have no choice. I need help. You know, is this a case where.

Eldar [00:50:59]:
You actually know that you might not know the end of it all? Like, of how things work and how this thing's gonna play out? Like, a little bit like, you know, half and half kind of thing? Or is it, like, in totality, do you feel like, you know, and then you have to see. You don't know. Like, you know what I mean?

Toliy [00:51:13]:
No, I'm saying it's not like. Like there's things where, like, you want to help with something. Right? Yeah, Right. But there's a lot of those there. There's a lot of those things where it's. Where it's like you often times one help based on your scale of diagnosis of what you need help with. Right. And, like, what.

Toliy [00:51:33]:
What is at that time painting you, like, what you feel is painting you, like, the most?

Eldar [00:51:39]:
Yeah, sure.

Toliy [00:51:39]:
Right. By saying that. By saying that, you are saying that there's these other things that are not painting me that bad. Right.

Eldar [00:51:48]:
Okay. Yeah.

Toliy [00:51:49]:
Okay. So in, like, a way, you're saying that like, you know something here. Right. But it could be that, like. Like, I'm coming to saying, like, yeller. My biggest problem is diet.

Eldar [00:52:01]:
Right?

Toliy [00:52:01]:
Like, this is my biggest problem. If I solve this, everything else goes away. Like, I mean, that.

Mike [00:52:09]:
That.

Toliy [00:52:10]:
That's a pretty bold, like, claim.

Eldar [00:52:14]:
Yeah.

Toliy [00:52:14]:
Claim there. But yet any of those kinds of examples, it's like, it's difficult to feel when, like, something is feeling painful and, like, it's clearly more painful than some other things. But those things that you're feeling pain from could either not be real or they could be rooted in other things. It's like, how do you unconvince yourself that they're not rooted in those things that you won't feel hurt if you.

Eldar [00:52:41]:
Come in with that type of bold claim already and asking for help. Right. You hopefully you have luck on your side that the teacher that's hearing this from you can ask some good questions to lead you out of that assumption.

Toliy [00:52:54]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:52:55]:
You know what I mean? If you have a little bit of sense. Right. If you had a little bit of sense and you know this, what we're talking about, that you need to get humbled, then you structure the question differently. Yeah. You. Then you have to rely on your memory. Hopefully your memory sparks it. Like, next time you have a problem, you're gonna say, okay, cool, I have a problem.

Eldar [00:53:16]:
And I think that this is a problem. However, I might be completely shooting off here. Let's try to digest it and see where we kind of land.

Mike [00:53:26]:
Yeah. Yeah. No, I mean, we talked a little bit about asking for help, and we said, why is so hard to ask for help?

Eldar [00:53:32]:
Right.

Mike [00:53:33]:
This conversation.

Eldar [00:53:34]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:53:34]:
And we said, asking for help is a great thing. And not everybody can do a great thing because it's hard, because it's great. So that's why I do think that either it just depends on how long the journey of suffering and pain that you're willing to put up with till you finally tell yourself, like, yo, I don't know what the fuck is happening here, and I really don't know. And then you're humbled. So it's a. Just a. I mean, I can't think of a better. I can't think of another way that, you know, unless.

Mike [00:54:06]:
Unless. Unless you take the approach of Socrates. But I think Socrates probably, possibly, maybe not probably, but possibly, he went through a lot of suffering and he realized that suffering was caused from his ego not being humble. And then he's like, you know what? I'm just gonna. I actually believe that I don't know anything. Because you can't just fake it and say, yeah, I don't know anything. You actually have to buy in and believe that. And I think he, he was, he got to that point by realizing like, yo, I don't like pain, I don't like suffering, and I've done enough of it now I'm ready to kind of forever be a student of like, you know, of, I mean, like a self inquisition.

Toliy [00:54:48]:
But is not like the paradox like, like. And again, I'm not sure of like how Socrates I actually was. But like the, the paradox of like, you learn something, like you're getting more information, for example, right?

Eldar [00:55:06]:
Yeah.

Toliy [00:55:07]:
Like that in the back end is like you're, you're like you're knowing something over time.

Eldar [00:55:14]:
Right.

Toliy [00:55:15]:
So it's like the paradox of like learning something and actually knowing it, or like, if it's possible to do that.

Eldar [00:55:24]:
Yeah.

Toliy [00:55:25]:
But then keeping like the mindset of like, I don't know anything I think is difficult because it's like you actually are knowing something because you are actually like, you do know something. But how do you actually feel that, like you don't know anything.

Eldar [00:55:42]:
But there's a lot of things that you can know and not know. You know what I mean? Like, yeah, you know, there's certain things that you can kind of like make conclusive things, you know, logical things about, you know, for yourself. And they say, okay, cool, like this makes sense. And then you move on. However, I mean, the body of knowledge, I think out there in the universe is so vast that I'm pretty sure you can get to a point where you say, you know what? I know everything. You know what I mean?

Toliy [00:56:05]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:56:06]:
So you're constantly, probably are discovering yourself within this universe and the universe itself and seeing how you fit in this whole thing of reality, you know.

Toliy [00:56:15]:
But as you learn more, how is it possible to keep the, like, the attitude and the energy Of I know nothing.

Eldar [00:56:22]:
I think because of the fact that if you got into a place where you started to say, concentrate on more on I know something you take away from actually continuing the journey of not knowing.

Toliy [00:56:35]:
Yeah, because like, you know what I.

Eldar [00:56:36]:
Mean, like, you stop it, you stop the journey. If you continue to do it, you'd never stop the journey. So it's an ongoing thing.

Toliy [00:56:44]:
Yeah, because when I think about it, like I don't think that Socrates would have put himself into like this like a fear based thing where you say that out of like fear.

Eldar [00:56:53]:
Oh, no.

Toliy [00:56:54]:
Right. I'm not sure.

Eldar [00:56:55]:
Yeah, but then I also think that.

Toliy [00:56:57]:
Like, is it okay to have like, is the, is, is it okay to have a fear of having an ego? Is that an okay fear to have?

Eldar [00:57:10]:
How, how if, if that's the fear, how often can you actually invite it and live it? That's my question.

Toliy [00:57:17]:
Well, if you're so convinced that like the truth is the most important thing, would you have just like an actual fear of not?

Eldar [00:57:25]:
I don't think that's possible, bro.

Toliy [00:57:27]:
So then how do you think that he was able to.

Eldar [00:57:31]:
I think that he carried himself in that way while. No, I think it, No, I think he really was convinced that he actually was curious about the world and the reality and the truth and he wanted to discover it as much as possible. So he wasn't willing to kind of settle down and say I do actually know something. So he kept saying I didn't know anything. I think it's, he was more curious also.

Mike [00:57:51]:
Do you, do you think like, then I think there's, there's like different kind of things to know, right? Like if you know that you're gonna eat some food, you're gonna get full like eventually, right. Like, I guess those are like simple things. But then things that he spoke about a lot, like justice, which is one of his probably big topics, right. I think that's a never ending pit because there's so many different situations, so many different variables, right?

Eldar [00:58:20]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:58:20]:
You cannot say like with certainty that like you know, justice now any, any situation ever comes out, you are a hundred percent answer right to it. And I think in those things like justice and I don't know about like other virtues and morals. I think in those things he said he didn't know because you really, you, you know, like you live your life for 10, 20, 30 years living justly and you think you have an idea of justice and then a situation comes about where it's different than the ones you faced and now you really don't know. You know, because maybe you think justice is like being a good basketball player, for example, Right. Being nice to people. Right. Being always a nice guy, friendly, not getting into fights, and that's justice. But what if now the person that you're playing against, they're being a dirt and justice is to stand up for yourself.

Eldar [00:59:12]:
Right.

Mike [00:59:13]:
But you've never experienced that. Right? So I think in those kind of situations where truth's involved, I think there's endless and maybe infinite possibilities. Because I think just maybe that's the nature of those things.

Eldar [00:59:25]:
Oh, okay. Showing different faces, different types.

Mike [00:59:28]:
Yeah, yeah, I think. I think those things. Yeah. Like, one of the examples that he gave in. In his, you know, understanding of justice, he's like. He said he gave an example. He's like, let's say that your friend gave you a bunch of weapons for safekeeping, right? He said, this is a story from the thing. He said, what happens if your friend gave you a bunch of weapons for safekeeping?

Eldar [00:59:54]:
Right.

Mike [00:59:54]:
But then a few years later, the friend lost his mind and he came to you and he said he wanted those weapons back. What is the justice here? You know, like, he saw, like, again, unexpected situation, Right. Do you give a sick person the stuff that was belonged to him? Right. Yeah. You know, so, like, I think those kind of weird situations in our lives, we can expect to face them, right? Like, you know, you live in. You live with somebody for many, many years, you have a good relationship, and then all of a sudden they come out of face. So what's the. It's unexpected.

Mike [01:00:30]:
And I think those things operate out of endless possibilities. And you really never can say, like, 100% of the time, this is the right thing to do and this is the way he's gonna present it.

Eldar [01:00:42]:
Yeah. So then he probably was wanting to keep that. I don't know. Because he wanted to keep sharp for.

Mike [01:00:46]:
The point.001% of chance of something maybe different happening versus, you know.

Eldar [01:00:52]:
Do you buy that?

Mike [01:00:54]:
No, he doesn't buy.

Eldar [01:00:56]:
Well, that's sounds.

Toliy [01:00:57]:
Yeah, I don't know. It's. It's a very hard, like.

Eldar [01:01:03]:
Like.

Toliy [01:01:04]:
Like with progress with, like. I always view it as, like, with progress of knowing, like, you have to stay humble throughout the process so that, like, your progress of knowing doesn't exceed, like, your energy for being humble. Because you, like, the only way. The paradox of it is that the only way that you get more progress is by staying humble. But then you almost, like, by almost learning information, you get less humble at times because you are actually like, but.

Mike [01:01:43]:
Is that a natural function of learning information?

Toliy [01:01:46]:
Yeah. I'm not sure.

Mike [01:01:50]:
Or is that a spin that we put on it?

Toliy [01:01:53]:
Yeah, I'm not sure.

Mike [01:01:55]:
Yeah. Like, can you. If. Can we actually know in every single situation going forward for the rest of our lives, what is the right thing to do? Let's say. Right. Let's say that.

Eldar [01:02:10]:
Very difficult.

Mike [01:02:10]:
Possible.

Eldar [01:02:11]:
Right. I mean.

Mike [01:02:12]:
Yes, that's nearly impossible. So I think that's why you saying that you don't know is. Leaves that room for error, because you really have no. You don't have an idea what is. Was you gonna face in your life, you know, you never.

Toliy [01:02:24]:
Yeah, but that's like a very specific big thing.

Eldar [01:02:28]:
Like, there's one thing that you knew for sure. Did you know what that was? You knew for sure. Yeah.

Toliy [01:02:36]:
That he knows nothing.

Eldar [01:02:36]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:02:37]:
Yeah. Yeah. I think we lost Cat, babe.

Eldar [01:02:44]:
What do you think? Can you. Can you. Let's just say, take the notion of not knowing and help solve some of your problems. Actually, not knowing, can you kind of like, you know what?

Katherine [01:03:00]:
Can that help me?

Eldar [01:03:01]:
Yeah. Can you kind of like, you know, all the things that you kind of on this. Some impression on there right now? Can you just take and blanket everything as I don't know and start over kind of with a clean slate?

Katherine [01:03:11]:
But what. What I. What I really would appreciate is it's figuring it out. Like, guidance again is like learning what to do.

Toliy [01:03:20]:
Yes. Yeah. Again, it, like, it resorts back to the ego way of asking for help.

Katherine [01:03:25]:
Of course.

Eldar [01:03:25]:
Yeah.

Toliy [01:03:25]:
Like, what I really want to do.

Eldar [01:03:28]:
I don't want to do this thing you talking about. I don't want to coin everything that I don't know. Yeah. Like, please leave me alone.

Katherine [01:03:33]:
It also. It also feels like. Okay, I'm gonna say I don't know this, but then, like, how. Like, I also, like, because.

Mike [01:03:41]:
But the thing is, it's very scary to say that, but it's actually what's necessary, I think.

Eldar [01:03:46]:
Oh, 100.

Toliy [01:03:47]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:03:47]:
You actually have to fire yourself from all the things you think you know.

Eldar [01:03:51]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:03:51]:
So that you can actually learn them the proper way.

Eldar [01:03:54]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:03:55]:
You know, and I think that's very scary because now you just kind of super vulnerable. Like, you just.

Katherine [01:04:00]:
Vulnerability.

Mike [01:04:01]:
You have to face yourself. You can't. You can't hide anymore in any. I have to go to the loop.

Toliy [01:04:07]:
Yeah. Because it's like.

Katherine [01:04:11]:
That's what I was saying.

Eldar [01:04:12]:
What's the matter with the philosopher?

Katherine [01:04:14]:
Suddenly, like, it's like.

Toliy [01:04:16]:
Yeah, because it's like this. Like. Like I would say that one Question that, like, I mean, you could ask me a million times or I feel like. Like. Like we can ask you is right. Like, if you're the one that got yourself in this position, how are you. How are you convinced that you know how to get yourself out of it? Like, what leads you to believe that.

Katherine [01:04:37]:
You know, if you got yourself here. That is the proof.

Eldar [01:04:42]:
That.

Katherine [01:04:43]:
The proof is in the pudding. That's the proof.

Toliy [01:04:45]:
Yeah. So, like, how can you. Like, how can you come to people and say that like, that you know what you need help with if you're the one that's the guy. Yourself in a position that you need help to begin with.

Eldar [01:04:56]:
Like, it's. It's. Again, it comes down to you always say you have to learn how to learn.

Toliy [01:05:01]:
Yeah.

Katherine [01:05:05]:
I've never said that before.

Eldar [01:05:07]:
No, that's what totally says. Oh, you have to learn again. You have to learn.

Katherine [01:05:13]:
You live and you learn.

Eldar [01:05:14]:
Oh, yeah.

Katherine [01:05:15]:
That's what I always say.

Eldar [01:05:16]:
Joe's not here. Who likes to state the obvious.

Toliy [01:05:22]:
Yeah. Yes. Yeah. So it's like, yeah, what you have to do is learn how to learn. Learn.

Eldar [01:05:26]:
But it's like it's starting over.

Katherine [01:05:29]:
Yeah, it's a complete start over. It is. It is. It's scary. It's vulnerable. How about, you know, when I put out. When I lay out all my stuff on the board, and then you guys start telling me to do, you know, xyz and those are things that I don't want to do. I'm scared to do, you know? Like, it's a very vulnerable position to be in.

Katherine [01:05:53]:
It's hard. Yeah.

Eldar [01:05:54]:
That's why they also have the saying for that. Right. They say, oh, you want the truth? You can't handle it.

Katherine [01:05:59]:
You can't handle the truth.

Eldar [01:06:00]:
Yeah, but you come and say, I want the truth.

Katherine [01:06:03]:
Ignorance is bliss, you know? But I can't say that ignorance is bliss right now. It's not.

Eldar [01:06:09]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:06:09]:
No.

Katherine [01:06:09]:
In this point, like.

Mike [01:06:10]:
Well, the smarter.

Eldar [01:06:12]:
The smarter you get, the trickier it becomes to trick yourself. Okay.

Mike [01:06:16]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:06:17]:
More and more and more, your is not being bought by yourself anymore.

Toliy [01:06:22]:
Exponentially.

Eldar [01:06:23]:
What's happening Is that. Right? You either stop this. Right. And then kind of live out the ignorance is bliss part, if you want. Right. Or you're gonna keep coming back slowly and keep hurting yourself because you're gonna. What you should developing is cognitive dissonance. On one hand, you know what's right.

Eldar [01:06:40]:
On the other hand, you do what's wrong.

Katherine [01:06:42]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:06:42]:
You know, and the closer it becomes to do it, knowingly doing it the closer you come to understanding that you are actually a little bit insane. So that means you a lot, you.

Katherine [01:06:55]:
Know, so that's for sure.

Eldar [01:06:58]:
Yeah. So, yeah. The most important things probably is to become the best friends with yourself, you know, in life. I know, yeah. All right, so what was the question?

Mike [01:07:14]:
Spirituality.

Eldar [01:07:16]:
Spirituality. Can you read that again? Let's see how much we tackle from it.

Katherine [01:07:24]:
Okay, so I was talking to Mike about spirituality and then he brought up religion. So I googled spirituality, and then it comes up spirituality versus religion. Says religion is a specific set of organized beliefs and practices usually shared by a common. By a community or group. Spirituality is more of an individual practice and has to do with having a sense of peace and purpose. It also relates to the process of developing beliefs around the meaning of life and connection with others.

Eldar [01:07:56]:
Okay, so if it's rooted in. You said in peace and the purpose for yourself. Right. Spirituality. You saying you're lacking something like that? Yeah, it makes perfect sense.

Katherine [01:08:06]:
It makes perfect sense, you know, not knowing myself.

Eldar [01:08:09]:
You're supposed to like.

Mike [01:08:10]:
Well, yeah. Your whole life is designed in a way.

Katherine [01:08:13]:
It's a big question.

Mike [01:08:13]:
You not to face yourself.

Eldar [01:08:14]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:08:15]:
Distract yourself. Yeah. So you don't get to know yourself.

Eldar [01:08:18]:
Correct. So, yeah. So, yeah. You're supposed to have that feeling. So what you're experiencing. I don't know if this brings you any kind of salvation or any kind of peace. Right. What you're going through, you're supposed to go through it like this is a perfectly normal experience that you have where you have something lacking and stuff.

Eldar [01:08:33]:
Because what you lack is time for yourself.

Mike [01:08:36]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:08:37]:
Actually, time for yourself, for self, love again. You know what I mean? And until you start applying that application towards yourself, you will keep feeling this void.

Toliy [01:08:45]:
Yeah. I'm not gonna like that sound good, but. Sounds like you gotta get rid of your phone too.

Eldar [01:08:53]:
Yeah. But we'll see you in a year or two, right?

Toliy [01:08:55]:
Oh, my God.

Katherine [01:08:56]:
Without advice that way. Is that where this is headed?

Eldar [01:08:59]:
This is a. This is a best case scenario with two years.

Katherine [01:09:03]:
You think it's my phone?

Toliy [01:09:04]:
No, she didn't have a problem with the two years. She had a problem with the phone.

Mike [01:09:08]:
Yeah.

Katherine [01:09:09]:
No, tell me the.

Toliy [01:09:10]:
No, I don't know now.

Katherine [01:09:11]:
Do you think my phone.

Eldar [01:09:12]:
No, no, no. I'm not sure. I'm not sure the type of, like, how bad you fired your brain. Right. Like for totally at least. We clearly see signs and stuff like that. What's actually happened, I think, like. But if, if, if we just.

Eldar [01:09:24]:
If one day we discovered that's Actually, what's going on? It's a possibility. Possibility. It's a big possibility. Maybe totally deduce it for himself that this is actually what you're going through. I'm not sure yet. I can't. I can't coin it. You know what I mean? I can't prescribe the medicine yet, but.

Mike [01:09:38]:
Yeah.

Katherine [01:09:39]:
You asked me a question though. Did I answer? What was it?

Eldar [01:09:43]:
Yeah. No. Yeah, yeah. You. You read the thing about spirituality.

Katherine [01:09:46]:
Okay.

Eldar [01:09:46]:
The reason why you have a void. Right. I think that's because you don't actually have time for yourself. There's no. If spirituality is a place where you actually discovered peace, internal peace for yourself, and you constantly doing that to cultivate that type of thing. It's. It's almost a practice of self love. And that's.

Eldar [01:10:04]:
That's where the purpose is. You are bombarded by nonsense.

Katherine [01:10:08]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:10:09]:
Every single day. And because you haven't figured it out and you're just spinning like a hamster in a wheel, you're not supposed to have any type of spirituality in your life.

Katherine [01:10:17]:
Okay. That makes sense to me. But you know what, what also maybe I'm realizing is that like, I'm not good at self love. You know, I feel like that's a conversation I had with Rebecca almost two years ago, and it's just like, what, like, what is that? Like, how do I even do that? And I think that, you know, I've acknowledged some things, but maybe I'm not. I'm still not good at it. Maybe I'm clearly not good at.

Eldar [01:10:45]:
Yeah, you probably, probably don't.

Katherine [01:10:47]:
Understanding it and knowing what's good for me and how to practice it, you know, it takes time because I'm just like, go, go, go. Or, or, or fill, you know, fill in and distract instead of just. Instead of actually just, you know.

Eldar [01:11:04]:
Yeah.

Katherine [01:11:07]:
You know, so this good. This is good. This.

Eldar [01:11:17]:
See you in the morning.

Katherine [01:11:18]:
Realize a couple of things.

Toliy [01:11:20]:
Yeah.

Katherine [01:11:21]:
Just a couple of things.

Eldar [01:11:23]:
Yeah. No, the reason why I say that. And you could kind of maybe timeline this as well. Told you laugh at it, but you can see that, you know, the. When does the person show up? All right. There's intervals in it. You know what I mean? As to when can person invite these types of things into their life. You know what I mean? And a lot of times it's very difficult to make any kind of space for them to be able to intake this.

Eldar [01:11:46]:
This type of attention to themselves. Yeah.

Toliy [01:11:49]:
The thing is that, like, if you're.

Katherine [01:11:52]:
Very good at the war world, if.

Toliy [01:11:54]:
You have Developed a fine skill of making yourself feel shitty, then you will get there fast.

Eldar [01:12:02]:
Yeah, that's actually also true. Yeah, you get there faster than you think. Yeah, yeah.

Toliy [01:12:10]:
Like, if you're good at making yourself feel bad.

Mike [01:12:13]:
Yeah.

Toliy [01:12:13]:
Then, like, you know, I am good at that.

Katherine [01:12:17]:
But I could. Apparently I can be in the. In the dirt for a while.

Eldar [01:12:24]:
Yeah, yeah.

Toliy [01:12:26]:
Because it's also. It's like the dirt at some point of, like, doing it for so long doesn't become dirt anymore.

Eldar [01:12:32]:
No, it's actually. Yeah. Wait till you get to a point where actually you're going to realize that the dirt is where you prefer. Prefer it to be.

Katherine [01:12:41]:
That's funny.

Eldar [01:12:42]:
Yeah, we'll get to that conversation as well. Yeah, yeah. You know what I mean? That it's actually preferable because what he just said, you know, if you could explain it with the levels of it, you know, so your lower lows become so much lower, so the dirt is actually high. So when you're in the dirt, you're like, oh, okay, it's been worse.

Katherine [01:13:05]:
That makes sense. Yeah.

Eldar [01:13:06]:
You know what I mean? Until you consciously kind of realize that, then it's hard to make any kind of changes.

Toliy [01:13:13]:
Yeah. Like, the best thing that you could have is like a really high sensitivity.

Eldar [01:13:19]:
To pain, you know, which takes slowing down again. Right. And that's why I think the totally got prescribed what he got prescribed with this phone situation, because now he's actually going to hopefully regain his attention span in order to really pay attention to what high he feels. It's going to be a very sensitive, tough time in the moment, you know, you experienced the mic. Right. When you have to actually zoom in on everything. Everything, you know, how it makes you feel. But in the long run, if you do shit, only up from there.

Eldar [01:13:57]:
So the question was, again, remind me, why is Cat feeling.

Toliy [01:14:02]:
Avoid a spirituality.

Mike [01:14:04]:
Yeah.

Katherine [01:14:04]:
Am I dying?

Eldar [01:14:06]:
Yeah. No.

Toliy [01:14:08]:
What, what, what, what? Like, is there something specific that, like, made you realize that you have a.

Eldar [01:14:13]:
Void.

Toliy [01:14:16]:
Or is it just like a general feeling of uneasiness?

Mike [01:14:19]:
I think it comes with the territory.

Eldar [01:14:21]:
It does come with the territory.

Katherine [01:14:22]:
Yeah. And it's like, it's. I can't even put it into words.

Mike [01:14:24]:
Like, you. If you keep doing stuff and you don't feel like you're actually getting anything from it when you keep doing it.

Eldar [01:14:31]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:14:33]:
There's only so much like.

Eldar [01:14:34]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:14:35]:
If you eat candy and garbage all day, eventually your body's gonna tell you, give me some veggies and some fruits, you know, because you're putting your body through pain. Through suffering, through, like, all kinds of shit. So eventually, you know, it's gonna tell you, like, yo, you can't keep doing this to me.

Eldar [01:14:50]:
Well, I need some spirituality in my life. Give me some veggies.

Mike [01:14:52]:
She needs some refueling.

Eldar [01:14:54]:
You know, there's only way through that is against spirituality is the way it's defined there, wherever you read it at, is to show yourself self love and find peace in life and practice that peace. Right. A sense of greater self. And tune into that. Yeah. Like you're just gonna keep drowning it, you know?

Mike [01:15:12]:
Do you have to look? Do you have to look? I guess you have to consciously look at the things you're doing that you think are. Well, it doesn't matter what you think, I guess, but the things you're doing is actually you not loving yourself ultimately.

Eldar [01:15:28]:
Yes, yes, yes. Yeah. And you kind of have to subscribe from yourself.

Mike [01:15:32]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:15:32]:
To say, okay, why are we doing this?

Mike [01:15:33]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:15:34]:
Why are we doing that? Why we doing.

Mike [01:15:36]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:15:36]:
Yeah. That's when or later you're gonna start redefining what you actually want to be doing.

Mike [01:15:40]:
Mm.

Eldar [01:15:41]:
And becoming a new person.

Mike [01:15:42]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:15:43]:
And in return, slowly.

Mike [01:15:45]:
Slowly. Yeah.

Eldar [01:15:46]:
You know.

Mike [01:15:46]:
Yeah. Yeah. It's hard to accept the medicine, like, in a way that is being prescribed, like, what I'm saying, like, cat, actually wake up tomorrow and do absolutely nothing. And that's probably the best thing you could do for yourself.

Eldar [01:15:59]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:15:59]:
Now believe that and go do that is like, wow.

Katherine [01:16:02]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:16:02]:
Like, that is death. That's, like, insane.

Toliy [01:16:06]:
Does that sound, like, wild?

Katherine [01:16:08]:
That sounds wild.

Mike [01:16:09]:
Yeah.

Katherine [01:16:09]:
Because I have a packed day tomorrow in my mind. In here, I have a ton of stuff.

Eldar [01:16:14]:
What do you mean? If you sit down, she'll give you a hundred things.

Katherine [01:16:17]:
I'll give you a call.

Eldar [01:16:18]:
Yeah, that too. Yeah.

Mike [01:16:20]:
Yeah. Without even that.

Katherine [01:16:21]:
I have work being done in my house, so my house is every. It's upside down. My living room, if you walked in upside down, you know, so I'm like, I have to. Or I have to clean. I have to organize. I have to put clean sheets on the beds. I have to make the beds because my cousin and her brother are coming. I have to food shop.

Katherine [01:16:39]:
I have to cook. Like, my mind.

Mike [01:16:41]:
The thing is. The thing is, like. Like what she just said about to do this. The thing is, we're so preoccupied, like, living in the future.

Toliy [01:16:48]:
Yes.

Mike [01:16:48]:
I'm like, yo, because it's coming tomorrow.

Eldar [01:16:50]:
Okay.

Mike [01:16:50]:
She'll come in and do the sheets.

Eldar [01:16:51]:
Like, who cares who's a fuck?

Mike [01:16:53]:
You'll come when she's there. You'll do the sheets then. But no, no, like if you.

Eldar [01:16:56]:
If you ask me like, oh, John's coming or whatever.

Mike [01:16:58]:
Or else he's coming. Huh.

Eldar [01:17:00]:
Like this is great.

Mike [01:17:01]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:17:01]:
What I mean that they're coming.

Mike [01:17:03]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:17:03]:
My sister's coming or Sasha's coming. I'm not about to turn my whole house upside down. You shouldn't be doing anything like.

Mike [01:17:10]:
Yeah. In a way it ruins your experience with. With guests because you like take on all this extra stress.

Eldar [01:17:16]:
Correct. So you can't even enjoy what was happening. Is that you come to a drained already.

Mike [01:17:21]:
Yeah. Yeah.

Katherine [01:17:22]:
I was thinking about that today over.

Eldar [01:17:24]:
Playing the whole perfection shift.

Mike [01:17:25]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:17:26]:
What your hospitality is already good. Yeah. You yourself with the attention, everything. You don't have to prep the best meal.

Katherine [01:17:36]:
Then. See that that's also linked to perfectionism, self worth shaming.

Eldar [01:17:41]:
Yeah.

Katherine [01:17:41]:
All the stuff that you want something else. This is all the stuff that got up there.

Eldar [01:17:45]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:17:46]:
You know, I guess people distract themselves by living in the future so they don't have to focus on the present.

Eldar [01:17:52]:
I guess. No, I think people.

Katherine [01:17:53]:
No, but my self worth is tied to all those things that I mentioned for tomorrow.

Mike [01:17:58]:
Yeah.

Katherine [01:17:59]:
So that goes down to also self love.

Mike [01:18:01]:
Yeah.

Katherine [01:18:02]:
You know, so it's all. You know. Yeah.

Eldar [01:18:03]:
This is all. She's getting something out of the things that she's doing and the way she's completing them. You understand that she has to live a particular image that she's created. You know, you created.

Mike [01:18:13]:
Oh, yeah.

Eldar [01:18:14]:
So. So she has to live that out to get little crumbs that she does get. You know, and then she has to hang on to every word that the other person tells her about the feedback that she received.

Mike [01:18:23]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:18:24]:
So that's like, you know. Yeah. You a slave. A forever slave.

Mike [01:18:28]:
Yeah. Yeah.

Eldar [01:18:31]:
You know what I'm saying?

Mike [01:18:35]:
Yeah. Yeah. I guess a lot of.

Eldar [01:18:39]:
So. Yeah. Where's room for spirituality and peace and growth for her?

Mike [01:18:42]:
It would be time.

Eldar [01:18:44]:
You know what I mean?

Katherine [01:18:46]:
And these are. These are smaller things, but still things that I would like to do for. For myself is I would love to paint my nails, which is something very small for I'm sure you guys. And I like to like wash my hair and blow dry it. But I'm pretty sure I'm not gonna find the time for that because I'm gonna be.

Mike [01:19:02]:
So you're not gonna find the time to do the things that you think you like.

Katherine [01:19:06]:
Real nice. If I actually. Because, you know, I wear my hair kind of just naturally messy every day. But you know, once in a while I like to it makes me feel better if it makes me feel.

Eldar [01:19:15]:
Yeah. So what has to happen, right? She has to wake up and actually do those things.

Mike [01:19:18]:
Yes.

Eldar [01:19:19]:
And then if she gets to the other stuff, the nonsense, she get to it.

Mike [01:19:22]:
If she doesn't, she doesn't.

Eldar [01:19:23]:
You know what I mean? But that has to. That has to take time.

Katherine [01:19:26]:
In my mind, it's like. And let them, like, just lay on this dust.

Eldar [01:19:28]:
Yeah. On the floor. Yeah.

Katherine [01:19:29]:
Bad. Because your dad's been working in the.

Eldar [01:19:31]:
Room on the floor, and they're gonna eat crumbs and dust. Dust. Dust balls, bunnies.

Toliy [01:19:35]:
So it sounds. It sounds like a very anxious situation for you. If you were just to get, like, kidnapped and. No, no. Nobody would accomplish those things.

Mike [01:19:47]:
They would have nowhere to sleep, bro.

Eldar [01:19:49]:
Are you crazy? They're gonna die, bro. You're gonna starve.

Katherine [01:19:52]:
I'll die first.

Mike [01:19:53]:
Yeah.

Katherine [01:19:55]:
Yeah. I'm telling you, I'm sick.

Eldar [01:19:59]:
She a distant sister.

Toliy [01:20:00]:
No, I understand what you're saying. What you're saying.

Katherine [01:20:08]:
Anxiety.

Toliy [01:20:08]:
Yeah. This is the face of anxiety. Yeah. Because, like, I know for a fact I like, like, you know what I'm doing tomorrow?

Eldar [01:20:15]:
You know what I'm doing tomorrow? I'm gonna do what I love yellow the tv. You understand? Yell at you and yell at the tv. And I can't wait. Yes. I can't wait to prove you wrong.

Toliy [01:20:27]:
Why yell at me wrong?

Eldar [01:20:29]:
Me. So I'm excited for that.

Katherine [01:20:32]:
All that list that I have tomorrow, I'm doing it by myself. I'm not getting his help.

Eldar [01:20:35]:
Understand?

Katherine [01:20:35]:
I don't get his help.

Eldar [01:20:36]:
I'll help him with a little bit. Yeah, but afterwards, like, after.

Toliy [01:20:40]:
No, I was about to say that.

Katherine [01:20:42]:
King size bed.

Toliy [01:20:43]:
No, I was about to say, is that, like, I guarantee that your house is cleaner than anyone's right now.

Eldar [01:20:48]:
Well, that's for sure.

Toliy [01:20:48]:
Like, without doing anything right now, there's.

Eldar [01:20:51]:
Literally a 30 minute cleanup, bro. A 30 minute cleanup. The most.

Katherine [01:20:56]:
No, see, I spent hours.

Mike [01:20:58]:
Yeah, but the problem is correct, because.

Eldar [01:21:01]:
The anxious person will go and stare at the wall for half an hour just. Just to wrap their hands around what they need to do.

Katherine [01:21:07]:
Yeah.

Toliy [01:21:09]:
Cleaning lady.

Mike [01:21:10]:
Okay.

Eldar [01:21:10]:
Okay.

Mike [01:21:11]:
Solution based person soliciting his own biz.

Eldar [01:21:19]:
Okay. Okay. Shameless.

Mike [01:21:21]:
Pl.

Eldar [01:21:26]:
Sick.

Mike [01:21:30]:
Sick.

Eldar [01:21:30]:
Wow, man. How'd you do that? No, it's wrong.

Katherine [01:21:36]:
My cousin Alondra asked me, asked me if I did the cleaning in the house, and I said yeah. And she seemed pretty shocked that I myself really do all the cleaning.

Mike [01:21:48]:
Why? Why would she be shocked?

Katherine [01:21:51]:
I guess. I guess she doesn't do it at her place, maybe. And then also, like, it's a lot to clean.

Mike [01:21:58]:
Oh, yeah, it is big.

Katherine [01:21:59]:
She's pretty aware of that. But also, I think. I think in some places it's a lot more affordable to have a house.

Mike [01:22:05]:
Yes.

Katherine [01:22:06]:
In Colombia, it's very over there, you know.

Mike [01:22:09]:
Yeah.

Katherine [01:22:09]:
You don't have to be rich to have one almost.

Mike [01:22:11]:
Yeah.

Katherine [01:22:11]:
You know, so it's easier to have that.

Mike [01:22:13]:
Yeah.

Katherine [01:22:15]:
So, yeah. And she also did mention that I was like, really tidy, very organized. So she was probably like, whoa, this takes a lot of her time, which it does, you know, because there's neuroticism in there, you know, of my cleaning.

Mike [01:22:28]:
And those things for currently serving you a good purpose.

Eldar [01:22:31]:
100%.

Mike [01:22:32]:
Hopefully soon.

Katherine [01:22:34]:
Do you have a brain cleaning idea in the works?

Eldar [01:22:40]:
Oh, my God.

Katherine [01:22:41]:
I need. I need a sweep.

Eldar [01:22:42]:
Yo.

Toliy [01:22:42]:
Make that so. Sure. Do you have a brain cleaning idea?

Katherine [01:22:47]:
Brain cleaning service.

Toliy [01:22:48]:
You have a brain cleaning service? Do you need a brain cleaning service?

Katherine [01:22:54]:
I think that ultimately this. This kind of feeling that I need, you know, maybe to get in touch with spirituality. It really is. I'm looking for peace. And by peace, I have to. I have to do more work, more self work, actually, for peace.

Mike [01:23:16]:
You actually don't have to do anything. You gotta take two weeks off.

Eldar [01:23:19]:
Yeah, well, that's the thing. That's what Mike said earlier. He said in order to find the spirituality and peace, you actually have to remove stuff.

Mike [01:23:26]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:23:27]:
From your plate. You know what I mean? But right now you identify with the things that you do as a purpose. A purpose. That's your purpose. So keep on, keep carrying on until you can't do it anymore.

Mike [01:23:40]:
Yeah.

Toliy [01:23:40]:
Well, what would it take for you?

Mike [01:23:42]:
Doctor's prescription is more suffering.

Eldar [01:23:44]:
Yeah. Wow.

Katherine [01:23:45]:
I don't even know. Well, not. Not only. Not only that, but it's part of my sickness. So, like, it's also a distraction. It gives me something to do. So that. That's a crutch, you know, like, what.

Mike [01:24:01]:
Are you going to do with this list? Can you tell me?

Toliy [01:24:03]:
What are you going to do with this list?

Eldar [01:24:05]:
How many you got on the list?

Mike [01:24:06]:
At least 50, bro.

Eldar [01:24:07]:
Right.

Katherine [01:24:08]:
It's a lot.

Toliy [01:24:08]:
You're going to make a shirt for.

Katherine [01:24:09]:
Every single one of them?

Eldar [01:24:11]:
Well, no, I mean, one day I like to sit down, kind of discuss it, you know, See what makes sense.

Toliy [01:24:14]:
See which ones are the best ones.

Mike [01:24:16]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:24:16]:
See which ones are the best ones. See if they stick, see if they don't. You know what I mean? And then maybe have. Yeah, why not walk around with a Shirt like that. Yeah. Like, I see how that can start a conversation starter. It's a conversation starter.

Toliy [01:24:27]:
It's like, do you want brain cleaning service?

Eldar [01:24:31]:
Yeah.

Katherine [01:24:32]:
Now that one. You gotta work on that one. Yeah, That's a good one.

Mike [01:24:36]:
Yeah. Yeah. The thing is service, like.

Eldar [01:24:39]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:24:40]:
Just with everything, you cannot. You cannot. Yeah. What's that expression? You cannot lead a horse to water. You can't make them drink. It's the same thing with this. Yeah. With lots.

Mike [01:24:50]:
You can tell people everything in the world, all the knowledge.

Eldar [01:24:52]:
You know what? But some seeds do sprout. Yeah. Just sprout a little bit later. A little bit later.

Mike [01:24:57]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:24:57]:
You know what I mean? Like more and more.

Mike [01:25:00]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:25:00]:
Like I said, if she. If she. If she wants to continue to bring herself more suffering right now before she starts feeling the fruits of a table, she has to keep coming to Philosophy club.

Mike [01:25:09]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:25:09]:
But she can only do that in small doses. Of course.

Mike [01:25:12]:
You understand.

Eldar [01:25:12]:
That's why I say, hey, see you in a month. You know what I mean? See you in six months when you're ready, or whatever.

Mike [01:25:16]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:25:16]:
Is because of the fact that it is painful. You know what I mean?

Mike [01:25:19]:
Does. Dennis would say, maybe you just need a softer approach.

Eldar [01:25:23]:
Oh, my God.

Toliy [01:25:25]:
Do you just need a softer, softer approach?

Katherine [01:25:27]:
I. I have told him.

Mike [01:25:32]:
I got you the.

Toliy [01:25:34]:
Does anybody else want ice cream?

Eldar [01:25:35]:
Except for Arch.

Katherine [01:25:39]:
But what's there?

Eldar [01:25:40]:
Is there anything.

Toliy [01:25:41]:
There's nothing there.

Katherine [01:25:42]:
I look over and there's nothing there.

Eldar [01:25:45]:
It's an invisible ice cream. He's definitely there. Tony's been picking his ass all day thinking about. It's disgusting. Right.

Mike [01:25:55]:
And now Archie, he knows what kind of flavors.

Eldar [01:26:01]:
Oh, my God, look, he knows those dingleberries. Yeah. So she has to continue to suffer. If not, she has to put. She has to close it. She has to close it and live out the ignorance is bliss part. You understand? And then it goes. But you can't.

Toliy [01:26:23]:
Mike's foot.

Eldar [01:26:23]:
Correct. You can't because you've opened it up.

Katherine [01:26:26]:
Yeah. Pandora's box.

Eldar [01:26:28]:
Yeah. Yeah. When you get bit by the philosophy bug, or at least see a glimpse of. There's. There's hope in the. There's light at the end of the tunnel. It's impossible. Tony's been trying pretty hard to close it.

Eldar [01:26:42]:
Right, T?

Toliy [01:26:43]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:26:43]:
And this doesn't work, right? Nope. Yeah. So. All right, guys, this was great.

Katherine [01:26:53]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:26:53]:
I'd love to say his final thoughts, but. No, we definitely have probably another hour or two to go.

Katherine [01:27:02]:
It's good. It's not like, oh, my God.

Eldar [01:27:08]:
Engaged for A while. You like keeping your life support over here. It's hard.

Katherine [01:27:12]:
Engaging me is in small doses. Three hour conversation. It's too.

Mike [01:27:15]:
It's only been like half an hour.

Eldar [01:27:17]:
Yeah.

Katherine [01:27:17]:
It's overwhelming.

Eldar [01:27:18]:
That's only been an hour. Babe.

Mike [01:27:19]:
I'm not claiming I even haven't even warmed up yet.

Toliy [01:27:22]:
Yeah, Yeah.

Mike [01:27:22]:
I haven't even warmed up yet.

Katherine [01:27:23]:
Yeah, because.

Eldar [01:27:24]:
No, but I think we covered a lot. No, for sure. Guys, you have to also understand.

Mike [01:27:28]:
No, no, no, no, no. We don't want to overwhelm.

Eldar [01:27:31]:
We don't want to overwhelm. Cat.

Mike [01:27:33]:
No, Let it say.

Katherine [01:27:34]:
But I think that I'm. I'm. I. I really would like. And not like. But I'm pushing towards, like, coming in and having the board meeting.

Mike [01:27:44]:
That's great.

Katherine [01:27:44]:
Board meeting. Meeting. Writing.

Mike [01:27:46]:
All my writing. All the things that you think on the board.

Toliy [01:27:49]:
When did you want to do that? Holding them accountable for next.

Mike [01:27:55]:
Discipline.

Eldar [01:27:56]:
Police. Sales process. Sales process.

Toliy [01:27:59]:
Would you like to book a meeting?

Katherine [01:28:02]:
I would say. I would actually say one to four weeks. That's a realistic timeline for me. It could be one week. It could be four weeks.

Toliy [01:28:11]:
I got $10. It's not one to four weeks.

Eldar [01:28:13]:
Wait, wait, zero to four, you mean? Or this week. Definitely not the way you structured it.

Mike [01:28:22]:
Well, Monday is one, right?

Eldar [01:28:24]:
Week one. Yeah. So one week. First week is like wash.

Katherine [01:28:28]:
I don't know.

Eldar [01:28:28]:
You said one to four. You didn't say zero to four weeks.

Katherine [01:28:31]:
Okay, a month. Just.

Mike [01:28:34]:
Yeah, a month from today.

Katherine [01:28:35]:
A month from today.

Eldar [01:28:37]:
Okay.

Katherine [01:28:38]:
But when you start to struggle, I. When I start to struggle, I start. I get very good at distracting myself, you know, so the more I need it, the more I distracted.

Eldar [01:28:50]:
Yeah.

Katherine [01:28:50]:
Which in turn obviously leads me to procrastinate about this and not do it.

Mike [01:28:54]:
Yeah.

Katherine [01:28:55]:
You know, I mean, also, you are. I mean, like, you're. You're busy down there. You know, you're busy downstairs and stuff. Like, I would want, like, your guys's attention, like, you know, for you guys to, like, be able to.

Eldar [01:29:06]:
Yeah.

Katherine [01:29:07]:
You know, you know, so I sort of want to push it on the wrong day.

Eldar [01:29:10]:
Yeah, for sure. But we have time for stuff like that.

Mike [01:29:13]:
Yeah, for sure.

Eldar [01:29:15]:
But. All right, guys. Before we finish, though, I don't want to read. So what we're doing is that some people will submit some questions or need help with something, and we're going to try to address it going forward. So you can go on Dennis Rocks. Yeah. Yeah. So on Dennis Rocks dot com.

Katherine [01:29:31]:
What are you hiding?

Toliy [01:29:32]:
I haven't even been on Dennis.

Eldar [01:29:34]:
If you go on DennisRocks.com. right now. There's a section where you can submit a question. Guys, guys, let me say D. D. Let me say this before. Okay, Go on Dennis Rocks dot com. There's gonna be.

Eldar [01:29:46]:
There's a. You can submit a question on there section. The form does not work. Okay. But one day it will.

Mike [01:29:52]:
Yep.

Toliy [01:29:54]:
Sick fuck your Fridays.

Eldar [01:29:58]:
Yeah, but we did fight. We did get one of our listeners.

Katherine [01:30:03]:
Really?

Toliy [01:30:03]:
You know what this reminds me of? This reminds me of the time when.

Mike [01:30:06]:
I asked you back in the day.

Eldar [01:30:07]:
Like 2014, like, yo, could you.

Mike [01:30:09]:
Like, you said, yeah, I know how to make websites. I'm like, can you make a website?

Eldar [01:30:12]:
A WordPress website for brainy Maid? And then like, this is exactly what you mean.

Mike [01:30:16]:
Like, you couldn't go anywhere.

Katherine [01:30:17]:
There's the plug again.

Toliy [01:30:18]:
You plugged it in.

Mike [01:30:19]:
Like, this is your whole website.

Toliy [01:30:21]:
I'm like, yeah, yeah, that was it, you know?

Eldar [01:30:23]:
Well, I mean, it's, you know, it's a progress, obviously, but she said. Amazing. Thank you. This is the girl that we helped answer the question about her question around love and.

Katherine [01:30:34]:
Oh, we've already answered a question.

Eldar [01:30:36]:
We already answered the question on the last two episodes ago, I think. Dennis.

Katherine [01:30:39]:
Right.

Eldar [01:30:40]:
So this is her response to it. Totally. You heard this or no?

Toliy [01:30:43]:
No, no.

Eldar [01:30:44]:
Thank you. I love the pro bono work. Thank you all. I really appreciate the perspectives and the thoughts shared. The paths you explored and the hypotheses are excellent. To provide some more context and to touch on some thoughts covered in the podcast. In my particular case, my views and visions have evolved since we met, though we he knew of my lifelong dream of having a banana farm. I've had a banana tattoo since I was 16.

Eldar [01:31:07]:
By the way. I discovered the books, the Anastasia books, after having children together. We wanted to create a family. I've always been a dreamer in our relationship, and he's been the builder. He refers to me as the amplifier of life and energy in our home. Meanwhile, he's my rock, who keeps me grounded, as one of you assume, and I think you assume correctly. I have read these things, but I haven't yet embodied them fully. I still have much work to do.

Eldar [01:31:35]:
For now, I think my pace towards this vision will be slow, steady, and strengthened by compromise. Recently, my husband said the pursuit of the school, it would further distance us. So I dropped it. But simultaneously, life also showed me the school will take on more than what I am ready for. Not in money, but in energy and skill, etc. There's still much to refine, however, before Pressing pause. I did tell him that eventually I will want to pursue the school idea. He didn't like that, but he's still at my side.

Eldar [01:32:12]:
I hear you. As for the rest, living by example is going to be key, as you all mentioned, and respecting his personal choices and beliefs the way I wish mine to be respected is also important. At the end of the day, I think our unifying goal is happy, healthy life, marriage and family. What that looks like, I think we're both still figuring that out.

Mike [01:32:38]:
Very nice.

Eldar [01:32:39]:
Thank you again for this. Yes. You have won yourself a new listener.

Katherine [01:32:42]:
Oh, that's. That's so sweet.

Eldar [01:32:45]:
So, yeah, I'm glad that she actually is taking our advice where she, you know, she'd probably take it slow, kind of focus on love, that there is love between them too, you know, and that she should continue to progress on that rather than just jumping into a separate idea, you know, and not having him as a. As a guide, support a rock and everything else.

Katherine [01:33:05]:
Well, I guess I wasn't here for you.

Eldar [01:33:07]:
Wasn't here for that. Yeah.

Katherine [01:33:08]:
So, yeah, I don't have much to say, but, you know, it seems like she's.

Eldar [01:33:12]:
Yeah, no, we definitely. We definitely said a lot about the situation and her question.

Mike [01:33:16]:
Oh, yeah.

Eldar [01:33:17]:
So, yeah, it was interesting. I could tell about it later. Yeah. So thank you. And if anybody else wants to submit any kind of question free to go on our website and not be able to do it, it's crazy. Just send us an email or something.

Katherine [01:33:28]:
It's crazy to think that we've been having these conversations for, or, I mean, you know, feel a club for years, but, like, now people couldn't. Can hear us. I haven't, like, it hasn't clicked for me that, like, there's people out there, like, listening and taking something from this, which is nice.

Eldar [01:33:43]:
Yeah, no, it's cool. Any final thoughts on this regarding Catherine's question about spirituality and why she lacks it and why she feels she lacks purpose and stuff like that? What we answered, Mike.

Mike [01:33:54]:
Yeah, I guess a big part of this is also.

Eldar [01:33:59]:
Patience, you know. Patience. Yeah.

Mike [01:34:03]:
I think it's a big part of this, not having expectations on the time frame or what needs to be done or how it's supposed to be done or how soon. I think this is a very fast process when it actually you understand it, you know, when you're going through it, but when you're starting it, it feels like it's very far away. But if you, if you're eager to learn, I think patience comes with it. You know, you Learn to become patient. And, you know, it's pretty good. You get nice gifts along the way.

Eldar [01:34:39]:
I would say. Thank you, Mike. I don't understand what you said. That's okay. Yeah, it wasn't supposed to make sense. Valid. You know what I mean? Like, we give, you know, just with listeners. We do give.

Toliy [01:34:50]:
Sometimes things just sound good, but you don't know what they mean.

Eldar [01:34:52]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. No, the reason why is. Mike, I didn't see what you said because I wasn't listening. Yeah. You know, sometimes I have. Is because I'm listening to what I'm saying to myself or what I'm thinking about the topic.

Mike [01:35:02]:
So.

Eldar [01:35:02]:
But yeah, thank you. If I do re. Listen to it probably says, I was definitely not practicing that. Like, yeah, you should definitely. And then the size. You should definitely try more. Softer approach. I wasn't.

Eldar [01:35:14]:
Fine.

Mike [01:35:15]:
No, but I wasn't like, I don't need, like, a warm milk after that comment.

Eldar [01:35:18]:
All right, cool. Sounds good. Yeah. What I was thinking about is that you're suffering for a very good reason. You know what I mean? Even though that reason is not clear.

Mike [01:35:34]:
Yeah, I like that.

Eldar [01:35:35]:
That's a T shirt idea too.

Mike [01:35:37]:
You're suffering for a very good reason.

Eldar [01:35:38]:
You're suffering for a very good reason.

Katherine [01:35:40]:
That's what it feels like. Like, I'm very. Just unclear about.

Eldar [01:35:44]:
Yeah.

Katherine [01:35:45]:
Like, I can't put, like, my finger on it type of thing.

Eldar [01:35:48]:
It's just like, hopefully one day it'll be clear. You know what I mean? Hopefully. And then you actually get it. You know what I mean? But trust me, it's. I don't think it's just. Just for no reason. It's very good reason. So you know what I mean? I think it's important.

Eldar [01:36:06]:
Sorry, Mike. Think it's like anybody who's on this journey trying to find themselves, find out truth and reality and stuff like that, they're going through, like, metamorphosis or something. You know what I mean?

Katherine [01:36:22]:
Metamorphosis.

Eldar [01:36:23]:
Yeah. Like you're transitioning. I think you're transitioning into a different type of person in life and stuff like that. Hopefully it's for the better, obviously. So good luck.

Toliy [01:36:33]:
Something from your current self has to die.

Eldar [01:36:35]:
Yeah.

Toliy [01:36:36]:
Well, burning hell.

Eldar [01:36:40]:
That's what they deserve. Enough. What? That's what they deserve.

Toliy [01:36:42]:
That part is gonna have. Yeah, that part is probably bad. And it's gonna die.

Eldar [01:36:46]:
It's.

Toliy [01:36:46]:
It definitely is gonna burn in hell.

Mike [01:36:50]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:36:51]:
So that's my take on that.

Katherine [01:36:53]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:36:55]:
What do you think?

Katherine [01:36:57]:
What do I think?

Eldar [01:36:58]:
What's your final thoughts for yourself.

Toliy [01:37:02]:
Keep calm and carry on.

Katherine [01:37:07]:
I don't even know what to say. Well, I mean, first of all, thank you guys for hearing me out and for, and for, you know, talking about it. I'm glad I did. I'm glad I brought the subject up because there's, I realized like there's, there's a lot, there's a lot to be digested, I guess, and worked on.

Eldar [01:37:31]:
Yeah. You gave us a crumb. And then we found that there's more and more and more things there, you.

Katherine [01:37:35]:
Know, and so it's like, you know, subject or you know, hitting so many things on like right on the head and it's like. So it just kind of like I like. I'm glad we're ending it now. It's just the right time because it's a lot.

Eldar [01:37:47]:
Two weeks off.

Katherine [01:37:48]:
It's a lot. I'll see you guys in two months, not one month. So it's a lot and it's great. I feel good. I'm glad that we had this conversation. And then the hard part comes, which is facing it, facing myself and then laying out all my greatness on this whiteboard and then tackling it, which is, you know, just the thought of it makes me a little bit anxious.

Eldar [01:38:13]:
Yeah.

Katherine [01:38:14]:
So this has been great.

Eldar [01:38:15]:
But the funny part is though too, to let you be more, A little more comfortable. Anything that you put on the board is not going to surprise us.

Katherine [01:38:21]:
Oh, for sure. And then like I said, there's nothing.

Eldar [01:38:24]:
That we have self employed, you guys.

Katherine [01:38:26]:
Know about all the.

Eldar [01:38:27]:
It has different, different takes on it. But I totally said different outfits. But it's all same bs.

Katherine [01:38:34]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:38:34]:
That everybody's suffering from.

Katherine [01:38:36]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:38:37]:
And struggle. It just has different names, different outfits.

Katherine [01:38:40]:
But I think, I think it's important instead of me just bringing it up once in a while and like addressing it actually like putting it down there, actually setting an intention and actually trying, you know, trying to do something about it is more than I have done in the last, what, I don't know how long. So. Yeah, stay tuned for those who are actually, you know, for those who are interested in.

Eldar [01:39:05]:
Yeah, for sure.

Katherine [01:39:06]:
In your progress in this journey. I guess.

Toliy [01:39:12]:
My final thoughts are when you feel, when you can consciously feel that like whatever you want is very far away. You are the closest you've ever been to it.

Eldar [01:39:23]:
Wow.

Katherine [01:39:24]:
Really? Certainly feels far away.

Toliy [01:39:29]:
That's why you're the closest you've ever met.

Katherine [01:39:31]:
1,000%.

Eldar [01:39:36]:
Dennis. No, Mike, we'll come back to you because I know you had A couple more.

Mike [01:39:40]:
Yeah. I was thinking it was interesting. No, I mean, you said it all.

Katherine [01:39:45]:
I said it all.

Mike [01:39:47]:
I think it's interesting what you said. It's just one thing that you said. You're suffering with a purpose.

Eldar [01:39:54]:
Suffer for good reason. For a good reason. Even though that reason is not yet identified.

Mike [01:39:57]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:39:58]:
You are suffering for.

Mike [01:39:59]:
I think. I think that's great because now you're actually consciously suffering versus before you were just suffering and you, like, you don't know why or what's the reason was to anything. You had no idea. You're just suffering. And it felt hopeless, probably. And it felt like. Yeah, it's never ending. I think here you're suffering with.

Mike [01:40:17]:
When what you said to me is you're suffering with intention, but you said to me you're dating with intention. I think you're suffering with an intention. You may not know that intention, but because you're conscious now, you know, that's. That's. That's all. That's pretty cool.

Eldar [01:40:32]:
It'll be more clear.

Mike [01:40:33]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:40:34]:
More and more.

Mike [01:40:34]:
Yeah. 100%. Yeah. Yeah. So I definitely agree with what you said and also with that. Also agree with. Totally said. Because, yeah, I do think you're closer because now you actually consciously.

Mike [01:40:45]:
What you're going through. Your consciously experiencing those things, which is good.

Eldar [01:40:50]:
Yeah. Keep suffering.

Katherine [01:40:52]:
Oh, I will.

Eldar [01:40:53]:
Keep getting good at suffering.

Katherine [01:40:54]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:40:55]:
I mean, keep getting bad at suffering.

Katherine [01:40:58]:
I've been good.

Eldar [01:40:58]:
Yeah. Keep getting bad at suffering.

Katherine [01:40:59]:
So.

Eldar [01:41:00]:
Because you're getting worse and worse at it. Yeah.

Katherine [01:41:03]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:41:03]:
You know.

Mike [01:41:05]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:41:05]:
Right.

Mike [01:41:06]:
Yeah.

Katherine [01:41:06]:
The cup fills up, you know.

Eldar [01:41:08]:
Yeah. Yeah.

Katherine [01:41:10]:
It's exhausting. By the way, I'm exhausted every day.

Eldar [01:41:13]:
Oh, yeah. We heard the same story.

Katherine [01:41:17]:
What am I doing?

Eldar [01:41:18]:
So I'm tired.

Katherine [01:41:21]:
A lot of times. Friday nights. Reason why sometimes two or three hours is too long. I'm exhausted by the end of the day.

Eldar [01:41:29]:
Yeah.

Katherine [01:41:29]:
Every time.

Eldar [01:41:30]:
For sure. All right, guys. Thank you.