Denis [00:00:00]:
On this week's episode.
Eldar [00:00:01]:
They're almost like vampires.
Denis [00:00:03]:
Yeah.
Eldar [00:00:03]:
You understand what they do is they. They'll suck the moment dry in that moment because they know how to do it. They'll experience it and visualize it in the mind. Like they actually are living that.
Denis [00:00:12]:
Yeah.
Eldar [00:00:12]:
But then when a push comes to shove, to actually do the action and actually do the stuff, go to school.
Eldar [00:00:17]:
Finish the degree, we fool ourselves in the moment.
Eldar [00:00:19]:
Yeah. You didn't do any of the work.
Denis [00:00:22]:
Yes.
Eldar [00:00:22]:
But you use your imagination to play out the whole thing.
Toliy [00:00:25]:
Fifteen games in running, full court. I'm not tired.
Eldar [00:00:29]:
One more game.
Denis [00:00:30]:
Please delete that. Fifteen games, full court. Like, come on, bro.
Eldar [00:00:35]:
Yeah, yeah.
Denis [00:00:35]:
What is he saying? Yeah, yeah. Discipline is dead, bro. Yo, that. Yo, I'm tired of it. Yo. Yo, discipline is like the anti love, bro. Like, discipline is only needed when there's no. When love is abandoned.
Eldar [00:00:57]:
So you know what my question was? What are the repercussions behind not hedging for your mental health? Especially when you're very excited.
Denis [00:01:07]:
Yeah. My thing also, when you started saying that, my, my thing was like, we also, in those things, those moments are very short lived. Those shame, those guilt, those things. Embarrassments.
Eldar [00:01:17]:
Yeah.
Denis [00:01:17]:
We learn how to deal with things that we don't like in a much better way and not actually address them or fix them. We just learn how to move on from that, but actually not get the lesson, which is even more like.
Eldar [00:01:27]:
Well, yeah, that's. Yeah, yeah, that's even more. Right. Like how do we learn to not even experience shame or guilt, Right. In order to learn the lesson, you're saying?
Denis [00:01:36]:
Oh, yeah, I'm just saying, based on, you know, self experience.
Eldar [00:01:40]:
Yeah.
Denis [00:01:40]:
Shout out to myself.
Eldar [00:01:41]:
Yeah, yeah youh know, just to give you an example, Dennis, what we're talking about, the question, the question I've raised was how does someone prevent themselves from experiencing shame, guilt, embarrassment? From the claims that you made previously that you were really excited about, Right. For example, can you explain that? Yeah, I can explain that. Okay. So I think that in many instances, a lot of people, they get excited about things. And it could be many different things, or I can bring up some examples with, you know, people that were here. Dennis, when he first discovered the guru that he did, right. He. He was, I guess maybe taught or he saw miracles that were being performed.
Eldar [00:02:33]:
You know, so he got very excited, right? And he went out there and told everybody, the world, pretty much his world. You know, they're like, you look, this is what I'm doing. These are the miracles that this guru is performing. I'm gonna be able to perform those same miracles. All right. You know, the healing and distance, reading people's health cards, health histories. This is moving coconuts.
Toliy [00:02:56]:
Popping diamonds.
Eldar [00:02:57]:
Yeah, popping up diamonds. Right. Changing, manifesting money into your bank account and everything else. Right. This is just like a very raw kind of example. I think it's a big example because I think at one point or another we always get excited about something in our life. Right. So my question is, how do you, you know, I guess safekeep yourself for your mental health from experiencing an embarrassment? The guilt, shame.
Eldar [00:03:18]:
The shame that comes with when you were actually wrong. Right. And I haven't told nobody. Well, yeah, I mean obviously we do, right? Obviously we do. Especially when we discover things that are, I guess, important to us or they get us excited or that might change.
Denis [00:03:37]:
Are they necessarily important and get us excited? Are they necessarily both?
Eldar [00:03:41]:
They're 100% both. They are, they're important and that's why we get excited.
Denis [00:03:46]:
They're important. That's what we get excited. Correct.
Eldar [00:03:47]:
They important to us.
Denis [00:03:48]:
Okay.
Eldar [00:03:49]:
Maybe not the world, obviously. Right. And that's why you almost want to share with every, the whole world and tell, tell them about these new endeavors that you're going into without. Right. Safekeeping your mental health. Right. Or preparing yourself at least for a fault.
Denis [00:04:05]:
But if you had mental health before that, would you get into such a situation in the first place?
Eldar [00:04:09]:
You're saying, you're saying you're talking about preventative care completely.
Denis [00:04:13]:
Well, I'm saying, I'm asking the question. Well, probably, you know, if you had good mental health, would you even entertain such a thing? That's, you know, so spicy.
Toliy [00:04:21]:
Well, you're talking like an enlightened like master, like I don't think master would get excited period.
Eldar [00:04:28]:
Right?
Denis [00:04:28]:
Mmm.
Eldar [00:04:31]:
Well, yeah. If an individual have learned how to self, have self control and control their.
Denis [00:04:35]:
Own mind, they don't have to be in lane Master.
Eldar [00:04:38]:
Right. They don't need to get too excited.
Denis [00:04:41]:
About one particular thing Also, when you're content with.
Eldar [00:04:44]:
So they don't, so they don't subject themselves to this kind of guilt and shame that comes after being so wrong.
Eldar [00:04:51]:
Like, I don't know, like should we really live a life like that? Like should we like not allowing yourself to get excited about something as a.
Denis [00:05:01]:
That's like are we saying that we shouldn't though?
Eldar [00:05:04]:
It's like a fear based action to prevent something that you don't know if it's going to happen or not.
Eldar [00:05:10]:
Yeah, but why would You. But why would you want to then experience all the things that come with it afterwards?
Eldar [00:05:14]:
Well, I don't know what's going to happen either way.
Denis [00:05:16]:
Wait, but, but are we saying that we shouldn't get excited?
Eldar [00:05:19]:
That's what Catherine saying. Why?
Eldar [00:05:21]:
I thought that's what, that's what you were saying. Am I.
Eldar [00:05:24]:
No, no, no, I'm asking, I'm asking. You think you definitely should get excited about something.
Eldar [00:05:28]:
Going from like past experience where you have said, like, you know, that's why you shouldn't get excited, or, you know, that's why excitement is not good. But I, I feel like, you know, if you're authentically or genuinely feeling something towards, you know, you know, maybe a plan or a goal or something, I don't know, I feel like, yeah, part of me is like, you should live that out. You should feel that excitement. It's part of life.
Eldar [00:05:52]:
Yeah. But okay, you can live it out. But why put it on, Put it out.
Eldar [00:05:56]:
Just saying, like, like, should I always go into a fear based, like a way to protect my feelings, like my, to protect my own self and like. Okay, no, because. Because then, you know, I don't know what's gonna happen. You know, I'm not sure how to feel about it. Like, I understand where you're coming from on, like, don't get excited because that'll protect you from, you know, a downfall.
Eldar [00:06:18]:
Okay, how about it? How about your personal example? You constantly getting excited about going to the gym. You constantly get excited about getting something done. You're voicing it to me, to your friends, to your family members, and you're not doing anything.
Eldar [00:06:29]:
No, I voice it to you. Yeah, I live with you.
Eldar [00:06:32]:
Yeah, you voice it to me.
Eldar [00:06:33]:
Yeah.
Eldar [00:06:33]:
Right. So you, you put it on me and you say, oh, this is what I'm doing, you know, yada yada. And then I'm like, what did you do?
Eldar [00:06:39]:
Like, put it on you. I was like, no, you put, you go to it or not.
Eldar [00:06:42]:
You give it to me, right? You're like, hey, this is what I'm doing. These are my plans.
Eldar [00:06:46]:
Yeah.
Eldar [00:06:47]:
And then, you know, obviously the time has passed and I'm like, hey, did you get that done? Oh, no, I didn't. You know what I mean?
Eldar [00:06:52]:
And does that make you feel a certain type of way?
Eldar [00:06:56]:
I mean, after some time it formulates an opinion about you and who you are as a person, how you use language to express yourself and how you don't have probably level of self control.
Eldar [00:07:07]:
Does it make me seem like a liar or something? Like a person that wants.
Eldar [00:07:10]:
No, not a liar. It definitely makes you seem like a person who doesn't know themselves.
Toliy [00:07:15]:
Yeah. Like a lack of control probably.
Eldar [00:07:18]:
Okay. Yeah. Does that affect you or does it bother you?
Eldar [00:07:21]:
No, no. I mean, I live with this. You know what I mean? I've known this for a very long time. I've learned. I've learned to have fun with it. You know what I mean? So, no, it doesn't bother me. Right. But I'll tell you the truth, I wouldn't be.
Eldar [00:07:34]:
I wouldn't want to be that person, especially consistently. Nor do I think that if you really zoom in on it, you want to be that person either.
Eldar [00:07:41]:
No, I mean, I would love to be.
Joe [00:07:43]:
Yeah.
Toliy [00:07:43]:
Because I feel like it also spreads.
Eldar [00:07:45]:
That can be consistent. But it's hard.
Eldar [00:07:47]:
No. Yeah, but that's what, that's what I'm.
Eldar [00:07:48]:
Saying, you know, being that like you live with me, of course I share that stuff with you because like today I would like to try and make it to the gym, for example, you know?
Eldar [00:07:57]:
Yeah.
Eldar [00:07:58]:
I don't know if I'll get there.
Eldar [00:07:59]:
Yeah, yeah. See, that's the thing. You saying like, hey, should I be, you know, should I always curb my enthusiasm here and my excitement about stuff, you know what I mean? On one hand you don't want to, but on the other hand you do want to change something about yourself. So how do you bridge the gap?
Eldar [00:08:12]:
I don't know if there's excitement there. I want to do it for my health. I have some health concerns that benefit from going to the gym. It's not really like, oh my gosh, I cannot wait.
Denis [00:08:23]:
So it's not pure excitement.
Eldar [00:08:24]:
It's a different excitement.
Denis [00:08:25]:
It's fear driven excitement.
Eldar [00:08:27]:
It's something that.
Denis [00:08:28]:
Or something like that. No.
Eldar [00:08:29]:
Okay. So when it comes to my mental health, there are some classes that I take that help me like the, that Nidra yoga class.
Denis [00:08:36]:
Yeah.
Eldar [00:08:37]:
Helps me like. Yeah. I practice my breathing. It just helps calm my mind. Right. My anxiety.
Denis [00:08:42]:
Okay.
Eldar [00:08:43]:
So I know it makes me feel good. I know I benefit from it. So I like to do it, you know, when it comes to other things. Like, I know it's what I need to do, but it comes a lot harder to me. It's not easy for me to go to the gym. So it is something that's like a constant for me.
Denis [00:09:00]:
Do you think, do you think that the act of getting excited and then putting it out there is like a. It's an energy draining thing, 100%. So do you think that you Might be.
Eldar [00:09:12]:
I don't. I don't call it excitement, though, because I'm. I'm not. Like.
Denis [00:09:16]:
You're not excited about going to the thing?
Eldar [00:09:18]:
No, it's just.
Denis [00:09:19]:
We have to then. Yeah. We have to use, like, an example of actual excitement then.
Eldar [00:09:23]:
Okay, so, like, Dennis. Dennis.
Denis [00:09:26]:
Yeah, but I wanted to. I wanted to add to the excitement thing. See that? I don't think there's a problem with excitement. I think the problem happens when it's blind excitement. It's not bad to get excited. The problem. The problem is.
Toliy [00:09:39]:
For sure.
Eldar [00:09:40]:
Huh.
Toliy [00:09:40]:
Is. Is that, like, for. For sure. For sure. Like, excitement is for sure a good thing in general.
Denis [00:09:45]:
I don't think it's good or bad.
Eldar [00:09:46]:
I don't know.
Eldar [00:09:47]:
Yeah.
Eldar [00:09:47]:
I don't know if we can just label it one or the other.
Denis [00:09:50]:
But if you want to get excited, I don't think it's bad if you actually take the time and after the excitement and do some thinking versus some actual doing. The problem is you'll get excited, and they do, and then they realize you. I don't want to do this. And the assignment dies.
Eldar [00:10:05]:
But don't you think that that's part of, like, the learning process in life? Like, it is, like, you have to do things a try.
Denis [00:10:11]:
It is, but the problem is, as history repeats itself, people don't learn.
Eldar [00:10:15]:
Mm.
Denis [00:10:16]:
Because people make the similar mistakes, make, you know, big announcements back to back to back to back all the time.
Eldar [00:10:23]:
Right.
Denis [00:10:23]:
You know, people constantly come and like, oh, I'm starting a business. I'm, you know, losing weight.
Eldar [00:10:27]:
That should tell us a lot about the human mind, I guess. Or the human. Like. But there's something about that.
Eldar [00:10:33]:
Yeah, but it also.
Toliy [00:10:34]:
We also.
Eldar [00:10:34]:
We also were also given this mind to be able to use it in such a way where we can make changes that are desired in our life.
Toliy [00:10:41]:
Yeah.
Eldar [00:10:41]:
Not just like, okay, like, this is a human condition, and then we can't do anything about it.
Eldar [00:10:47]:
I'm not saying that, you know, nothing can be done about it, but it's clearly like. I mean, you look around everyone.
Eldar [00:10:52]:
Well, what I'm saying is that it doesn't mean it has to be this way, especially if you're. If you're thinking about it constantly. If you're constantly thinking, like, okay, cool. Like, this type of behavior gives me this amount of pain. I'd like to stray away from it. So I'd like to think more, you know, to see what is it that I can tweak in order for not to subject myself to those kinds of experiences. Yeah.
Toliy [00:11:10]:
I also think that, that, like, it's.
Eldar [00:11:11]:
Your choice at the end of the day.
Toliy [00:11:12]:
One of the purposes, though, I think of, like, learn of learning and general is that, like, you should get, like, better at learning. Right? So if, like, I don't know, the abs are more like primitive people, right? They had to go, like, touch the fire and realize, oh, like, it's hot. Like this burns. Right. Like, I think a purpose of learning too is that, like, you should. You should over time get better at it. So, like, part of that is probably, like, not setting yourself up so that, like, you get excited, for example, and do certain things and you just repeat those different behaviors over and over again. You can kind of be like, hey, wait, like, I've said that I'm gonna go to the gym like, already a hundred times and only I've gotten 20 of them.
Toliy [00:11:58]:
Right. Eventually, I think that, like, learning from that is beneficial because then, like, you won't experience those like, like, like, like, not, not. Not only you if you're, like, projecting it on others. But I think for yourself too, because that, like, like, I mean, I definitely know firsthand of, like, you know, saying some. Something and then not doing it. That has slowly crept in and spread into many aspects of my life.
Eldar [00:12:25]:
Okay, so that's what. Exactly what I'm talking about.
Eldar [00:12:26]:
But there's. There's a reason for that.
Toliy [00:12:29]:
Yes, yes.
Eldar [00:12:30]:
That's opening. Like, that's like just peeling off an onion. Right. Like there's another layer. Something is preventing you from that. There's something that's maybe making you procrastinate or something else.
Toliy [00:12:39]:
Yeah.
Eldar [00:12:39]:
It's deeper than just having the excitement of sharing something because in the moment it felt right.
Toliy [00:12:44]:
Yeah.
Eldar [00:12:45]:
But I feel like, bigger.
Toliy [00:12:46]:
Yeah, but I feel like that, that whole process and like, that, like, doing all that stuff, it rues, like, a environment of that stuff. And if you don't start addressing that stuff, like, your word is going to be, like, you know, loosely and loosely and more and more and more, like, used. Right. And then, yeah. Before you know it, you're going to be talking and saying to people so many things, and then you're going to be, like, not only ruled out by others completely, but you're also going to be in this, like, cycle where you're, like, now, okay, like, others have ruled you out. Like, you're the person who says this and then, like, not doing it. But then when you start doing it to yourself, you can get kind of, like, infected in a way where, like, you almost don't like, realize what's going on, and you just start, like, saying things, like, not doing them, but.
Eldar [00:13:40]:
But.
Toliy [00:13:40]:
But experiencing, like, the guilt and the bad stuff that comes along with, like, not doing it. And then you just go in this different cycle and different things, and, like, hopefully you're, like, aware enough to see, like, where you're actually doing it. But, like, the real bad thing, I think, is if you get caught in some kind of, like, loop where you're not, like, realizing it, and before you know it, like, you've already, like, exhausted bullshitting everybody else, and then now you're just bullshitting yourself and not even realizing it. Well, I think that that's.
Eldar [00:14:11]:
That's ultimately what it is. Yeah, you're just.
Toliy [00:14:13]:
Yeah. You know, but it doesn't go that way, like, right. Right away. What. What I'm saying is that I think that, like, that type of, like, behavior bruised that. And like, over time, it just becomes like, oh, that's okay. This is okay. And then it just, like.
Toliy [00:14:27]:
It's like a vibe virus. It spreads in different aspects.
Eldar [00:14:30]:
You're not. You're not sharing these things with other people because you want to, like, disappoint. You know, like, there. There's something deeper there that's preventing you from.
Toliy [00:14:42]:
No, but you're sharing it because you. You want something. Like, you're getting something out of sharing it.
Eldar [00:14:47]:
Right.
Eldar [00:14:48]:
So is.
Toliy [00:14:49]:
Is.
Eldar [00:14:49]:
Is one of the problems sharing?
Toliy [00:14:52]:
Well, I think sharing shame in your.
Eldar [00:14:55]:
Closet, like, just a shame like at home.
Toliy [00:14:57]:
But what do you mean by that, though?
Eldar [00:14:59]:
So I feel like one thing that you guys are mentioning a lot is, like, you know, you got excited about, like, something going to the gym, you know, whatever it is, and then you share it. And, you know, you start falling in this loop of maybe you're not consistent or you don't do it or you don't follow through, so people start seeing you a different way. I mean, ultimately, it's how you feel about yourself, right?
Eldar [00:15:22]:
Yeah.
Toliy [00:15:22]:
But there's no way that that person, like, 100%.
Eldar [00:15:25]:
If I lose credibility with my friends. All right, well, no, fuck the friends. I don't care about that. I have enough going on my own mind, which is the stuff that's preventing me from getting him in the first place.
Eldar [00:15:36]:
That's what I'm saying.
Eldar [00:15:36]:
I'm so overwhelmed. I cannot think about these friends that I'm, you know, disappointing or making feel a certain way.
Eldar [00:15:42]:
I think the number one.
Eldar [00:15:43]:
The number one person your own to deal with, I guess.
Eldar [00:15:48]:
Yeah.
Toliy [00:15:48]:
But I think that, like, if. If you are One of those people, like, sharing with your friends. I think even though it might be, like, a shitty experience and, like, you don't want to sit there, like, I mean, at the end of the day, like, if you have good friends where, like, you know they're looking out for your best interests, right? Them, like, feeling that kind of way, voicing it and making you feel that, like, if you yourself are already not feeling that, then, like, they're. They're in, like, a way trying to help you get out of that, like, loop. So, like, it's, it's. It's. It. It's actually like a.
Toliy [00:16:25]:
A very good thing that's happening to you, even though it might kind of feel like, hey, like, I'm being judged here, but, like, yeah, you are being judged here. You're being judged here because you're not judging yourself properly. Because what.
Eldar [00:16:38]:
First of all, first of all, what is it to be judged? Okay? You. You coining it like it's a wrong thing. That's.
Toliy [00:16:43]:
No, I'm saying that it's correct.
Eldar [00:16:44]:
Those. Those individuals that are calling it for what it is, they're calling the truthful.
Toliy [00:16:48]:
That's what I'm saying. Like, yes, you are being judged because you are.
Eldar [00:16:51]:
Yes, you're.
Toliy [00:16:52]:
You're saying. And not doing it. And they are right to say. I'm saying it. That it's a good thing.
Eldar [00:16:57]:
He's saying it's a good thing.
Toliy [00:16:58]:
Yeah, I'm saying that it's a good thing that they're doing this to you.
Eldar [00:17:01]:
It's what it is.
Toliy [00:17:02]:
Yeah. I mean, they're passing a judgment of what's happening.
Eldar [00:17:05]:
And, and they're not even passing a judgment.
Toliy [00:17:07]:
Yeah, okay. They're just saying what. What's.
Eldar [00:17:09]:
What it is.
Toliy [00:17:10]:
Yes. Okay, fine. Yeah. They're saying what.
Eldar [00:17:12]:
What that person might be feeling that.
Eldar [00:17:13]:
They pass, like, judgment to the person.
Toliy [00:17:15]:
Yeah, yeah. Because it only feels like those are their.
Eldar [00:17:18]:
His or her friends.
Toliy [00:17:19]:
It only feels like judgment to the per. Person because they're not judging themselves properly. I think I have a question, actually.
Denis [00:17:27]:
You know, in the core of excitement.
Eldar [00:17:30]:
I didn't even pose a question about the people. I questioned the whole thing about what is it that you're doing to yourself when you're voicing this? The shame and guilt that you receive after you voiced it and said, I'm going, but you didn't go. You have a loop now. You have a guilty loop that you said, I was supposed to go, but I didn't go. Now I'm a piece of shit. You know what? I mean, many people suffer from that, you know what I'm saying? I'm not even talking about these people to be conscious about how it's affecting the world because also, there's no way they can think about the world and their friends and their family members, you know what I'm saying? And their feelings about how until they start figuring out what it is it's doing to them.
Toliy [00:18:05]:
Yeah.
Eldar [00:18:05]:
There's like. They can't. They can't do a loving action, speak properly and love the world when they're a piece of shit inside, internally themselves through guilt and shame, is what I'm saying.
Denis [00:18:18]:
Yeah. Yeah.
Eldar [00:18:19]:
You know what I'm saying? So these. It could be small things as a. Going to the gym. Yeah. That's a perpetual cycle that you keep saying to yourself, I'm gonna go to the gym. And you don't go. You're like, fuck, I'm a fucking piece of shit. You know what I mean? I couldn't make it.
Eldar [00:18:29]:
You know what I mean? Or it could be something much more bigger.
Toliy [00:18:33]:
Right, well, that's what I'm saying is that it's. It could start in those smaller things.
Eldar [00:18:38]:
Yeah.
Toliy [00:18:38]:
And then it just creeps and escalates through. Through the bigger ones.
Eldar [00:18:41]:
But what.
Toliy [00:18:42]:
Why I'm saying is that, like, people are saying that in general, like, around you, because through your actions, you're. You're showing that, like, you cannot govern yourself properly.
Denis [00:18:52]:
Yeah.
Toliy [00:18:53]:
That's why.
Eldar [00:18:53]:
Yeah.
Denis [00:18:54]:
Who's saying this? Like, I think we might be under impression that all people are, like, all around the world, people are saying to each other, like, oh, yeah, you're full of shit. You always say this, like, do we feel like this is the general consensus?
Eldar [00:19:05]:
No, I don't.
Eldar [00:19:08]:
I think what happens is people might not say it out loud, but it seems like.
Toliy [00:19:11]:
No, I'm saying that you guys are.
Eldar [00:19:12]:
Saying is that people are passing on.
Toliy [00:19:14]:
I'm saying that if you're fortunate enough to have a good group of friends around you.
Denis [00:19:18]:
Yes, of course. And they're.
Toliy [00:19:20]:
They're saying this. The only reason they're saying this is that you are proving by your actions of talking and not doing right, that you cannot govern yourself properly. That's what I said.
Denis [00:19:32]:
I understand. But tell me for them, is it a majority of people have good friends around them who are gonna act like this to them?
Eldar [00:19:42]:
Most people, probably because of the. Mostly world. I think individuals who say stuff, they just get patted on the head and say, get support. They get support. This is like a. Like a blind support where, like. Yeah, no, for sure. Good for you.
Toliy [00:19:56]:
You know what I mean?
Eldar [00:19:57]:
What they doing actually is then they promoting guilt and shame that's going to come your way when you actually don't go. You understand? Because now you're not also ashamed of yourself. You're ashamed to look at the other person is to say, oh, like, I lied to them too. I didn't just lie to myself, I lied to them as well. So now you're ashamed. Yeah, like I said, the example of my friend Elliot, right?
Denis [00:20:18]:
Yeah.
Eldar [00:20:19]:
Who gave me conspiracy theories, who gave me all the stuff, you know what I mean? Told me all the stuff, trying to scare me. He never called me back and said, hey, Elder, that stuff is done, man. I'm done with that stuff.
Denis [00:20:27]:
I'm like, yeah, what you're saying, you.
Eldar [00:20:29]:
Know what I mean?
Denis [00:20:30]:
I get what you say.
Eldar [00:20:31]:
This tail. And right away I'm still waiting for that call, like, what happened?
Denis [00:20:35]:
But the thing is, a person who operates out of excitement, they also operate is using excuses, and they'll make up the excuse in their head why it didn't happen, but it's gonna happen.
Eldar [00:20:44]:
Or, yeah, but like, I need a memo, bro. You got me.
Denis [00:20:48]:
But you're asking for people to go outside of the norm and to follow.
Eldar [00:20:51]:
Well, that is what. What I'm asking. What I'm asking is that. Or I'm trying to get to. Is how detrimental is this type of behavior and how far it goes to our mental psyche and us in the long run.
Denis [00:21:03]:
Yeah, well, you understand it ruins relationships.
Eldar [00:21:05]:
Are you guys suggesting that part of. Part of this, like, part of maybe what we. We should do to change this behavior is not share the excitement?
Eldar [00:21:14]:
We should. No, we should watch how we speak. That's. That's like, if you want to just blanket at all, you should watch what.
Eldar [00:21:20]:
You say, the excitement with others.
Eldar [00:21:22]:
You should watch what you say.
Toliy [00:21:23]:
But it's also. It's like, it's.
Eldar [00:21:25]:
It's.
Toliy [00:21:25]:
It's also like learning to get proper excitement, right? Like. Like there. There's no way that that excitement. I think that, like, you're talking about, like, even if you're actually, like, excited, like, in the moment, how that, like, transpires, I feel like there's no way that you can say that, like, that situation is like, like, like was good and, like, you were happy with how things played out. Like, I feel like you. You will. You will feel that bad inside, like, overall, so, like, if you become good at this kind of stuff, you can maybe like me, maybe like Mike was saying, like, you can get Excited and then follow that excitement up with actual action to back your excitement. And then, and then they're like, yeah, I'm gonna do this, I'm gonna go to the gym.
Toliy [00:22:11]:
And then you went to the gym and you came back and you did it. Right now it's like that, that thing that you were sharing and that excitement with someone, like it came to fruition. Like it became alive. And now like, yeah, now both people could be like, yeah, like, okay, like this person told me this. That's awesome. That person who said it said, yeah, I said it and I did it. That's awesome. But I feel like if you're the person who gets excited, says it and then, and then doesn't do it.
Toliy [00:22:42]:
Like, I feel like it's difficult over time to walk out of those kind of situations like feeling happy about yourself. Like I think that you're possible. Yeah, you're bound to feel like shitty about.
Eldar [00:22:56]:
Shitty about it. First and foremost, you're going to feel shitty about yourself.
Toliy [00:22:59]:
Yeah.
Eldar [00:23:00]:
Guilt and shame. And then if you also got other people involved, sooner or later those, it's gonna, I mean, it's gonna paint. I mean, you were the flip flopper gym flip flopper too, you know, for a long time, you know, it was, you was coined with that. You know what I mean? And then, you know, we make plans in the morning, in the afternoon, you were nowhere to be found.
Denis [00:23:19]:
But you were trying to bait me though, like, no, Loki, with what I would ask you in the morning. No, I'm messing around. He wasn't.
Eldar [00:23:28]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So no, but for a long time that was your identity.
Toliy [00:23:32]:
Sure.
Eldar [00:23:33]:
That's who you are as a person.
Denis [00:23:34]:
Yeah.
Eldar [00:23:34]:
You know what I mean? Until you've changed that around. You became a different person now. You actually became the gym guy that actually goes more than anybody else here. You know, maybe sometimes twice a day. Right? Yeah. And I don't think you did it with words. I think you did it through actions. You finally quiet down, you, you, that noise subdued.
Eldar [00:23:55]:
Then you started actually going. And now you're a different person completely. I do not identify you as the flip flop of Mike. That used to be when it comes to going to the gym or playing basketball.
Toliy [00:24:03]:
Yeah. Because it's like if you, if you get excited about something, you share it and don't. And don't do it. I feel like there's some kind of like robbery happening there because it's like you're excited and you're sharing it and you're extremely happy. Right. And you're Creating this like great, great moment for yourself. So you're getting something like from it. Right.
Toliy [00:24:26]:
But then you actually don't do it. But you still got that moment in the beginning. So I feel like the punishment of that happening is again is like people viewing you as like a bullshitter and then you yourself like feeling like shameful and guilty and stuff.
Denis [00:24:45]:
I want to ask, so what do you guys think excitement is? Where is it? Like, where is it born out of.
Eldar [00:24:52]:
Like, I mean to get excited? If you caught in the constant state of excitement and heightened states like that, you're probably deprived somewhere else, I would say. Right. So what I'm saying is that you're probably not experiencing level of happiness throughout.
Denis [00:25:05]:
Yeah.
Eldar [00:25:06]:
And that's why you need heights.
Toliy [00:25:08]:
You're not used to happiness.
Eldar [00:25:09]:
Yes. You're not used to it. So those peaks happen to you. Right. So when you do have something that's exciting in your life. Yeah. It's like I gotta hold on to it. So I gotta talk about it.
Eldar [00:25:17]:
I gotta constantly think about. I have to obsess about it. You know what I mean?
Denis [00:25:20]:
Yeah.
Eldar [00:25:20]:
But you have no idea what to do with it and how to control it. So that's very short lived.
Denis [00:25:24]:
It's blind. Blind. Like in a way. What I was thinking is along lines of what you're saying is that excitement comes from. It's like a fuel, like a blind fuel in a way. When we recognize that something within ourselves we don't like. Right. That we use that fuel to kind of like try to pretend like, yo, we're now going to change.
Denis [00:25:45]:
Get there.
Eldar [00:25:46]:
Yeah.
Denis [00:25:46]:
Right?
Eldar [00:25:46]:
Yes.
Denis [00:25:47]:
But nobody says like, okay, I'm gonna get excited about losing weight because I believe that it's like, it's not healthy or I need to be in better health. People get excited about losing weight and they just get excited. But maybe for vanity reasons. Right. So I think a lot of those things they're not really like people are not looking at the core of why they getting excited about that particular thing. People get excited about getting a new business because they're not happy the current level of their life. Like I don't make enough money or I'm not fit enough.
Eldar [00:26:17]:
Right.
Denis [00:26:17]:
Or whatever. So I think the excitement draws from our weaknesses, but it gives us like a little like a boost. And I think people are maybe addicted to that.
Eldar [00:26:27]:
Mm.
Eldar [00:26:28]:
Oh.
Eldar [00:26:28]:
Trying to compensate.
Eldar [00:26:30]:
No. I think people got very good at getting excited and extracting what totally talked about. Yeah. They're almost like vampires.
Denis [00:26:35]:
Yeah.
Eldar [00:26:36]:
You understand what they do is they'll suck the moment dry in that moment, because they know how to do it. They'll experience it and visualize it in the mind like they actually are living that. But then when a push comes to shove, to actually do the action and actually do the stuff, go to school, finish the degree.
Eldar [00:26:51]:
We fool ourselves in the moment.
Eldar [00:26:52]:
Yeah. You didn't do any of the work.
Denis [00:26:55]:
Yes.
Eldar [00:26:55]:
But you use your imagination to play out the whole thing right in that moment.
Denis [00:27:00]:
Yeah, but that's where the. I guess. Yeah, like, that's where the blinded excitement is. And that's why it's so dangerous, because if you don't do the actual legwork, the hard work of understanding why you like.
Eldar [00:27:15]:
So you become. You almost become a constant failure internally.
Denis [00:27:19]:
So you're saying you just keep perpetuating because you never actually uncover.
Eldar [00:27:22]:
All I do.
Denis [00:27:23]:
Getting excited about.
Eldar [00:27:24]:
All you do is you constantly set yourself up for some kind of, like, go mode.
Denis [00:27:29]:
Yeah.
Eldar [00:27:29]:
At some point.
Denis [00:27:30]:
Yeah.
Eldar [00:27:31]:
And the goal never has.
Eldar [00:27:32]:
Never has never been a part of you is excitement. So what is. What is the excitement?
Eldar [00:27:39]:
No, I'm not ready to say that.
Denis [00:27:40]:
Excitement. What? I've been thinking about it more.
Eldar [00:27:43]:
I don't think it's a bad thing.
Eldar [00:27:44]:
Maybe sharing it prematurely could be.
Eldar [00:27:46]:
That's what I'm asking. Okay, so do you just keep it to yourself so that, you know.
Denis [00:27:51]:
I think excitement.
Eldar [00:27:52]:
I think that you guys don't understand that. I think if we actually understand excitement. Sorry, Mike. The way it's supposed to be understood, there's unlimited amount of energy in it that we can use to harvest in order to actually do the things that we want to do. Agree?
Denis [00:28:05]:
Yes, 100%.
Eldar [00:28:05]:
You don't talk about where I'm going.
Denis [00:28:07]:
I know where you're saying okay, but it's also.
Toliy [00:28:09]:
Yeah. I think for that to happen, you have to have the right gauge as to, like, what you're getting excited to begin with. Like, for example, focus.
Eldar [00:28:18]:
Well.
Toliy [00:28:19]:
Well, focus. Yes, but it's also like, if you're like excitement, what lots of time stems from, like, a goal. Right. Like accomplishing some kind of goal. And when you're sharing something, it's like you're potentially chipping away at that goal. So, like, for example, like, there's not.
Eldar [00:28:35]:
Yeah, but that's the thing. Like, how does sharing it help you in any way, shape, or form?
Toliy [00:28:41]:
Well, that. That's what I'm talking about. Is that, like the person who's sharing it, I probably say. Is that, like. I would say that oftentimes they're probably sharing something that they don't want to be doing to begin with, but they, they, they may want the end goal of it and, and sharing it helps them along the way to keep them, to keep them. Like, yeah, yeah. Potentially help them keep, keep them going. Because like, which is always, like, for example, like, if somebody wants to get, I don't know, like, like, like, like what you guys were saying, like, if someone wants to become an entrepreneur, right? And they want to become an entrepreneur because, like, I don't know, let's say, like, they say, like, yeah, I want to, like what, what do people say? Like, I have my own schedule and I want to be rich, right.
Toliy [00:29:27]:
And I want to be my own boss, right? Like, like, yeah, like, yeah. And retire my parents.
Denis [00:29:33]:
Thank you.
Toliy [00:29:33]:
Right. If that was the case, like, those are all kind of like almost at the back end, kind of like, like shiny things, right? I mean, everyone, like, what, make your own schedule rich, Retire your parents? Like, they sound like all awesome things, right?
Eldar [00:29:49]:
Nobody talks about the parts. Yeah.
Toliy [00:29:51]:
So, like, if your intention as to why you want to do this to begin with is wrong, you will need to share along the way to get yourself through and try to make it through those hurdles of actually getting there because you are not enjoying the process at all.
Eldar [00:30:05]:
At all.
Toliy [00:30:05]:
Right? But if you're like, I want to go to the gym because, like, the physical action of you getting into your car, scanning into the gym, right? Like lifting those weights and sweating and taking and I don't know, taking a class or doing that stuff, if that stuff is not fun for you, you will need to share along the way to, to, yeah, you, you, you'll, you will need to like.
Eldar [00:30:32]:
So you see what he's saying?
Toliy [00:30:33]:
Yeah, I'm thinking about it. I don't remember the last time. Like, like, I mean, like, my, my parents may have asked me, like, hey, what are you doing in the morning? And I'm like, I'm going to play basketball. Like, I, I don't remember the last time. Like, I shared dinner on Friday night.
Eldar [00:30:47]:
And told them, like, I can't, like, I'm going to play basketball, right? Like, yeah.
Toliy [00:30:51]:
Like, I don't remember the last time I shared with someone that, like, hey, 8:00am I'm gonna be on the courts, you know, like, yeah, yeah, like, like, like, like when you're sharing in those.
Eldar [00:31:01]:
Talk about it all the time.
Eldar [00:31:02]:
No, no, no, no.
Toliy [00:31:04]:
There's like a particular, like, I know already ahead of time where, like, I, like, there's something that I don't know. Like, I said I'm gonna Do I talk about a particular way to maybe get like, you. You talk about in a particular way to get some kind of credit. Not that it's just like something that's like, you're doing and it's not even up for, like, debate. Like. Like, I know when, like, there's something that I don't do often, but it's like, I don't know, a societal good thing and I actually do it. And maybe I'm looking for props or maybe like, I'm looking to share versus, like. Yeah, I mean, like, I'm probably gonna wake up Tomorrow at like 7, something in the morning, and I'm probably gonna be at a gym very early, and hopefully everything works out well.
Toliy [00:31:45]:
Stay for a while. Right. Like that. That's usually my norm on Saturdays, but I don't remember like, in like, years the last time I said it in that kind of tone where it's like, oh, this is what I'm doing.
Eldar [00:31:57]:
Yeah.
Toliy [00:31:57]:
Like, btw.
Eldar [00:31:58]:
Yeah. Yeah.
Toliy [00:31:59]:
Right?
Eldar [00:32:00]:
Yeah.
Toliy [00:32:00]:
But I also know that there's been plenty of times where there's something that, like, I know I'm very inconsistent in.
Eldar [00:32:05]:
Yes.
Toliy [00:32:06]:
And like, I'm definitely sharing in that kind of way where it's like, I know the energy, like, different difference and how I look at it because, like, like, I know, like, I'm not even questioning about, like, if I wake up and stuff like that, like, I'm gonna go. Like, I feel like I'm pretty consistent in doing that. Like, I don't need to force myself to do any of us.
Eldar [00:32:24]:
Because you actually like it.
Toliy [00:32:25]:
Yeah.
Eldar [00:32:25]:
Yeah, I know when I need anybody else's lying or I don't need.
Toliy [00:32:29]:
I don't need to share with anybody. Yeah. I could tell you, like. Yeah, I'm going. We could say like, here we going.
Eldar [00:32:34]:
Yeah, See, right. That's what he's describing, I think is a pure or natural form of excitement that he has internally. And he's constantly tapping into it because it's actually what he wants to do versus the stuff that people do. Share they don't want to do it. That's what he does. Theory.
Joe [00:32:49]:
It's always just what they want to do. It's just some things are easier for us to do than others because obviously it's either easier.
Eldar [00:32:56]:
No, but he's making a very interesting distinction here. The shit that you don't want to do, the actual steps you share the stuff. You know what I mean? You almost want to put yourself up, you know, higher. And the stuff that you actually like doing, you Just go and do it.
Eldar [00:33:12]:
Or maybe you'd have to convince you.
Eldar [00:33:13]:
When's the last time you told me? Like, yeah, like, you know, like, ask her about shopping, right? Like, I know she's gonna go shopping because she likes shopping. She doesn't go and tell me, okay, babe, I can't wait to go shopping tomorrow. Like, no, she just goes into shopping.
Joe [00:33:27]:
So you're saying unequivocally, people who actually do what they. That's the never talk about.
Eldar [00:33:31]:
You see that, I think.
Denis [00:33:32]:
I don't know if that's necessarily.
Eldar [00:33:34]:
No, no, it's, it's. It's a different type of share.
Toliy [00:33:36]:
It's like a subtle. It's a very different type of share.
Eldar [00:33:38]:
Tell me, like, babe, I'm going shopping. No problem. But there's. She knows she's going shopping and she's 100% going to go shopping, and that's it.
Joe [00:33:45]:
That's the end of it. The way that she's sharing the other thing, let's say, is the same way for her. It's just. You're reading it as. Because you see it that she hasn't followed through on that other thing you're seeing in another way, but her internally, subconsciously.
Eldar [00:33:56]:
That's the same energy.
Eldar [00:33:59]:
It's not the same energy. No, no, no.
Eldar [00:34:02]:
Part of me also feels like I'm being set up because we live to together, we're partners. And he's like, babe, what are you doing today? So I'll tell him, oh, I'd like to go to this, I'll try to go to that, or whatever. And if I don't follow through now I'm like, okay, now not only do I have to feel like I have to deal with my own shame, but now my husband is, Is looking at me a certain type of way. I don't know if, like, that's exactly what a person needs when they're down, you know, like what we would have.
Joe [00:34:27]:
To ask you now, in this, in this theory, when you're sharing those things, let's say, for example, about the gym, for example, you guys brought up. Are you, Are you in that moment doing this thing where you're. What they're talking about, where you're. Can you identify that you're doing it where you're subtly kind of like you're sharing it because, like, you don't even want to do it?
Eldar [00:34:45]:
Oh, I can, I can definitely see sharing something that you don't like as almost like a way to convince, like you're trying to convince yourself that it's.
Joe [00:34:52]:
Like, it's good for you.
Eldar [00:34:54]:
She says, I'm going to do my nails. Can I go do her?
Eldar [00:34:57]:
Can I. Can I say that for all the time? Like, I don't know. Like, I would have to, like, literally tally every time what am I doing this for? This or that or, you know, like.
Joe [00:35:05]:
I don't know. I just think some things are.
Eldar [00:35:07]:
Have I done it? Of course, you know, you know, to.
Joe [00:35:09]:
To just do, like. You love basketball.
Eldar [00:35:11]:
I don't.
Toliy [00:35:12]:
I. I think everything that you truly enjoy doing is easy to do. For example, I think everything that you truly enjoy doing is easy to do.
Joe [00:35:20]:
I agree.
Denis [00:35:20]:
Yeah, but, but, but it's a different.
Toliy [00:35:23]:
Like, I always need.
Eldar [00:35:25]:
He's excited internally about going on Saturday mornings to play basketball. He's genuine. And I am too. I share that same excitement in Mike too, probably, right? Not to speak for everyone, but we don't have to talk about that. You know what I'm saying? There's no, like an actual thing that, like, we need to convince.
Toliy [00:35:41]:
If we talk about energy exchange that's happening, like, you could say some things, right? And there's an energy exchange that's happening where like, the individual sharing it is looking for something, and then you could also share something and you could share it, but that energy exchange is not there where, like, I'm trying to extract reaction from you to get something from myself.
Joe [00:36:03]:
Problem is, what you're talking about, I think is 99% of time is not happening consciously.
Eldar [00:36:07]:
Well, that's the thing. That's a very good point.
Toliy [00:36:10]:
Problem.
Eldar [00:36:11]:
That's the problem.
Toliy [00:36:11]:
Like that. Now, that's why that happens to the people to begin with.
Joe [00:36:16]:
Yeah, yeah.
Eldar [00:36:17]:
No, the goal is to connect what.
Toliy [00:36:20]:
Is happening to you unconsciously. That is not serving you to. When you can think about it consciously to make those kind of changes.
Eldar [00:36:28]:
Right? Yeah.
Toliy [00:36:29]:
I always say, like, I mean, you guys probably always heard, like, I always feel tired, stuff like that. Fifteen games in running, full court. I'm not tired. I mean, like, one more game.
Denis [00:36:40]:
Please delete that.
Eldar [00:36:43]:
He says you're not running it.
Denis [00:36:44]:
You know, 15 games, full court. Come on, bro. Yeah, yeah. You're embarrassing us.
Toliy [00:36:50]:
What are you talking about?
Eldar [00:36:51]:
Example. Mike Gill, an example.
Denis [00:36:52]:
Okay, fine.
Toliy [00:36:52]:
What are you talking about?
Eldar [00:36:53]:
It's a good example. You're right.
Toliy [00:36:54]:
Just because you want to leave after two the. What's.
Eldar [00:36:56]:
You see, he made a very good example, right? He's saying that, look, he's constantly going around complaining to us that he has no energy, he's tired, but wait till Saturday morning comes, he Is he's there on time, ready to go.
Denis [00:37:10]:
Sure.
Eldar [00:37:11]:
What the fuck is happening? He's tapping into a very particular.
Denis [00:37:15]:
Yeah, but that's.
Eldar [00:37:16]:
That he really likes.
Denis [00:37:17]:
But we're talking about. That's like a subtle excitement. That's not. Is that a dangerous one?
Eldar [00:37:21]:
No, that's right.
Toliy [00:37:22]:
That's the whole point is that, like, I don't need. I don't. I'm not telling you guys. Guys waking up early and going like, yes. Yeah. You ever feel me?
Joe [00:37:29]:
I just don't think. I don't think this is like, relevant in terms of whether you. Obviously I think overall it's better to be balanced, for sure. Not be excited, not, not be angry or whatever. But like, the problem, I don't think stems in sharing or being excited. Excited. The problem stems from the follow through and the, let's say, the lack of my favorite word, discipline. It's like, okay, what I'm talking about here is you tries.
Joe [00:37:50]:
You guys are trying to unpack it a different way. I understand what you're saying, but I can unpack it the other way, which is like you're still sharing it. You guys talk about basketball a lot.
Toliy [00:37:57]:
Well, that's why I said different. I'm not extracting energy.
Joe [00:38:01]:
It's different because you have the discipline to follow through on it. Therefore, you don't have to sell anybody.
Toliy [00:38:05]:
It's not discipline.
Joe [00:38:06]:
The other thing you.
Toliy [00:38:07]:
It's not discipline.
Joe [00:38:08]:
Well, no, his theory, it's a unconscious discipline.
Toliy [00:38:10]:
Because it's not an unconscious discipline.
Joe [00:38:13]:
Okay. Why, why are you. You're gonna, you're gonna, you talk about specific times, right? 7:00am gonna get up. There's a discipline to it, even if you're not forcing yourself to do this.
Toliy [00:38:21]:
Yeah, Yeah. I don't know. I, I'm, I'm, I viewing more as like. Discipline is more of like things that like, you don't like to do.
Joe [00:38:28]:
But, you know, you're defining discipline your own way. Then discipline is just discipline. It doesn't have a. Yeah, I guess.
Toliy [00:38:34]:
That that's, that, that's the way that I understand is that I don't need to have discipline for things that I like doing.
Joe [00:38:38]:
Well, that's the, that's the goal is you end up not even needing to apply.
Toliy [00:38:42]:
Well, that's what I'm saying. So that, that it's like, that's why to me, on those, on those things I viewed as like, discipline doesn't exist. But to the things I don't like doing. That's usually where you use the deal, right? Where you're like, yo, okay, like, like, I don't know. You don't, like, take going on that footstool and doing that, like, BS thing with your feet. Right. To work out. But you use the word discipline when it comes to that, right?
Eldar [00:39:07]:
Sure.
Toliy [00:39:07]:
But do you need discipline to eat pounds of shrimp?
Eldar [00:39:09]:
Oh, my God.
Toliy [00:39:11]:
No, you don't.
Eldar [00:39:11]:
Oh, my God.
Toliy [00:39:12]:
Because you. You truly.
Eldar [00:39:13]:
What? Sorry.
Toliy [00:39:15]:
No, I. I'm assuming that you enjoy one action, you don't really enjoy the other one, but you maybe.
Joe [00:39:21]:
But I enjoy the outcome of getting on that.
Toliy [00:39:23]:
Okay, so that's what I'm saying, is that, like, that's where you have to use that word?
Eldar [00:39:27]:
Yeah.
Toliy [00:39:28]:
Do you need a structure for eating shrimp?
Joe [00:39:30]:
I want the outcome.
Toliy [00:39:31]:
But you don't need the structure for eating the shrimp.
Joe [00:39:33]:
I don't have to do it.
Toliy [00:39:34]:
That's because you enjoy it. That's because you enjoy it.
Joe [00:39:37]:
Sure, I enjoy the outcome. There's some things that are built inherently into the universe.
Toliy [00:39:42]:
No, don't say hard and easy that.
Joe [00:39:45]:
We like the outcome of, not the action in it.
Toliy [00:39:47]:
No, there. There are things that are easier for some because they truly enjoy it versus for that other person. It's like, holy shit. Like that. That sounds so hard.
Joe [00:39:56]:
But then you'd have to rule out the factor of. Sometimes it's hard. You can. You can really enjoy something, but you just are really lazy to start it. And then once you start, you're like, oh, shit. I actually like this.
Eldar [00:40:04]:
That also happens.
Joe [00:40:05]:
So there's so many variables.
Toliy [00:40:06]:
I don't know. Like that. That Spanish guy, a gym. Right. Like that older guy. He's there for like, four hours.
Denis [00:40:12]:
Oh, yeah.
Toliy [00:40:13]:
You're telling me that like. Like he loves that whole scenario, right?
Eldar [00:40:16]:
Yeah.
Toliy [00:40:16]:
He talks to everybody. He walks around. He's literally there already when we just get there, and he's already doing it. And then he's there when we leave. And like, we're. We're there probably for, like, you know, I don't know, two hours or so, like a time or sometimes more like he's probably there for, like three, four hours.
Denis [00:40:32]:
Like, like, see that? That's why I want to cut. Like we're saying. Yes, it's. I want to get to the core of it.
Eldar [00:40:39]:
Well, yeah, that's.
Denis [00:40:40]:
Which is the. Which is I.
Eldar [00:40:44]:
Go back to my.
Denis [00:40:46]:
Promise is that people get excited, excitement in this kind of fucked up way, like, where it leads nowhere. Because the base, the core of it is that they're not happy with something deep, like within themselves.
Eldar [00:40:59]:
Okay.
Denis [00:41:00]:
Right. I don't think we're tackling that. Like, I feel like.
Eldar [00:41:03]:
No, he's saying that it's probably. You get. You need to. You need to use this little fake trick on yourself and others.
Denis [00:41:10]:
Yeah.
Eldar [00:41:11]:
To push through.
Denis [00:41:12]:
No, I understand that.
Toliy [00:41:13]:
Yeah. I'm not sure if it's something that you're not happy. Happy with yourself. I feel like it's more like you're not happy with what you're doing to begin with. Like, like, like you're not happy with what you're going through or like endeavoring through, even if you think that you'll be happy, like, with the, like, result. Right. Like, I'm not sure if, like, people who are like those real gym guys who are really in sick shape, like, I'm not sure if, like, they, like the way they look at it, I think is completely different. Like, anyone who's happy with what they're doing.
Toliy [00:41:49]:
I just feel like the reasoning for the, for what you want to do, what you're doing to begin with is wrong, which is why you need the end. Like, you need the energy that excitement gives when sharing, and you need to get that from somebody, like extract that for yourself.
Denis [00:42:06]:
I understand that. What happens in the back end, that's the back end. It's a coping mechanism. Yeah, it's a coping mechanism. To me, the way I see it, it's a coping mechanism. You not happy with yourself, you go, you share so you can get. Feel better about yourself. Does it solve the problem why you have it in the beginning with.
Denis [00:42:24]:
To me, it doesn't.
Toliy [00:42:25]:
Wait, what do you mean? Does it solve the problem of why.
Denis [00:42:29]:
If you get excited about something and you go and you tell people about it.
Toliy [00:42:32]:
Okay.
Denis [00:42:33]:
And then you don't do anything about it.
Toliy [00:42:35]:
Okay.
Denis [00:42:36]:
You feel like you solved something okay. For that moment, but you didn't.
Toliy [00:42:39]:
Yes.
Denis [00:42:40]:
Excitement. The excitement is drawn from a thing that you feel like you're lacking.
Toliy [00:42:44]:
No, but I feel like you have the wrong measure as to what you need and want to begin with. I think that's why this whole exchange is happening. Like, you think that you need to be healthy and that you need to go to the gym and do X, Y and Z. You don't even need that to begin to begin with. That's, that's why you're in. In that scenario where you need these kind of ways of excitement to get you through something. Like, I think that, like, that's what your ability. Yeah.
Toliy [00:43:09]:
Like your ability to select what you're actually doing is like, Is wrong. Like, you're. You're you're like, your ability to make choice choices on what you want to do or think you want to do are wrong. That.
Denis [00:43:25]:
That.
Toliy [00:43:25]:
That's what I view as like, the. The front end, the back end is like, okay, you're bad at making choices. Like, let's say that's a fact. Right. And now, because you're bad at it, you made a choice to do something and now to push through, forward, forward with it.
Denis [00:43:41]:
Yeah, but you need. That's not the core. Right? You don't just make choices left and right. You don't just say, okay, I'm gonna choose this. There has to happen something behind the scenes that you make a choice to change. You don't just say, you know, everything's great in life.
Toliy [00:43:56]:
Okay, well, I'm not sure if it's always a change. I think it's like, it's. It stems from.
Denis [00:44:00]:
No, but how can you make a choice if there's nothing to choose?
Eldar [00:44:03]:
Yeah, there's a different process that's going on in the. On your. In the back end before you even get to the point of choosing.
Denis [00:44:09]:
How can you choose if it changes?
Toliy [00:44:11]:
I don't even feel like it's like a change driven. I feel like it's desire driven, thinking that from that desire, something will come out of it, that you will get this feeling, like, right. And. And. And like, then choices are made based on that. That. That desire.
Eldar [00:44:31]:
I think you guys don't have an argument. You don't. Guys are not arguing against each other's points here. I think you guys both saying the same thing.
Toliy [00:44:37]:
Yeah, it's like, I'm not.
Denis [00:44:40]:
Like, he's saying it's a choice, but they're like. We're like, yeah, I guess we're not connecting it, but I don't think you can just make a choice randomly making.
Eldar [00:44:48]:
It saying the same thing.
Toliy [00:44:49]:
Yeah, I'm saying. No, no, I was saying that always. I was saying those people are bad at making choices to begin with.
Denis [00:44:58]:
Those people are bad at making choice to begin with.
Toliy [00:45:01]:
Yes. Like, they feel that. They're convinced that, like, they're like, if you're making a decision on something, you're subconsciously saying that, like, that, like, you. You are qualified to make this.
Joe [00:45:12]:
Right.
Toliy [00:45:12]:
Like, that that's what's happening in the background. Right. Like, if someone's gonna say, like, you know, the red wire, the blue wire, and you have no idea about wires, actually, you're probably not gonna be like, yeah, it's definitely the red one.
Eldar [00:45:24]:
Yeah.
Toliy [00:45:24]:
Right. Yeah, but you're making a choice on something because you subconscious feel that you are qualified to begin with to make this choice. So I'm saying is that these people are not qualified to make choices on problems that they think they have, and they think that these choices that they're making will solve these things. And that's when. Then it continues on where you need the powerful energy that shared excitement gives you so you could push through to accomplish these things that you think might solve a particular problem or might fulfill a particular desire that you think that you have.
Denis [00:46:05]:
Okay, Right.
Toliy [00:46:06]:
And then either.
Joe [00:46:07]:
What's the example here?
Eldar [00:46:08]:
Finally, it was set in a way that, like.
Denis [00:46:10]:
Yeah, it click.
Eldar [00:46:11]:
Yeah, it clicks.
Eldar [00:46:12]:
They're vampires, these people. Well, that's us, obviously.
Toliy [00:46:15]:
So what do you mean?
Joe [00:46:17]:
Like, so, like, what's. Like what. Like, what's the practical, like, example of that?
Toliy [00:46:24]:
A practice. I mean, give me any example.
Eldar [00:46:26]:
It could be any example.
Denis [00:46:27]:
Yeah, give me an example.
Eldar [00:46:29]:
Well, I mean, I want to start biking to work.
Joe [00:46:31]:
The, like, I don't want to gym thing.
Denis [00:46:39]:
Right.
Joe [00:46:39]:
So, like. Yeah, give me that breakdown where, like, she wants to go to the gym.
Eldar [00:46:42]:
No, she doesn't.
Joe [00:46:43]:
Hold on.
Eldar [00:46:43]:
That's what he said.
Joe [00:46:44]:
Go to the gym.
Eldar [00:46:45]:
Yeah.
Joe [00:46:45]:
She's telling him about it.
Toliy [00:46:46]:
Yes.
Joe [00:46:47]:
And let's say she doesn't follow through that day. What do you. What's the. Give me the back end.
Toliy [00:46:52]:
I mean, I think Kat wants nothing to do with the gym for the majority of the time.
Joe [00:46:56]:
Okay, so start with.
Eldar [00:46:57]:
Hold on before.
Joe [00:46:58]:
Start with the first part about she doesn't even know what's good for her.
Eldar [00:47:01]:
Yes.
Joe [00:47:03]:
The person doesn't know what's good for them or they don't know how to make the decision. So you're saying that her decision to even go to the gym is completely wrong.
Eldar [00:47:08]:
She's confused. Yes.
Toliy [00:47:09]:
Yeah, I probably say.
Joe [00:47:10]:
And what capacity is that?
Denis [00:47:12]:
She's confused.
Eldar [00:47:12]:
She got excited. She doesn't know what's actually good for her, so she's reaching for things that she heard might be good for her. So therefore.
Toliy [00:47:19]:
Because those goals behind them sound pretty good.
Eldar [00:47:22]:
They sound pretty good.
Toliy [00:47:23]:
Get in shape.
Denis [00:47:23]:
Get into shape. They're proven. They're not just.
Eldar [00:47:27]:
They don't just sound good. They're proven goals. Right.
Toliy [00:47:29]:
Like, they're proven by who you mean, like when.
Joe [00:47:31]:
If you exercise, you're gonna either feel good, you're gonna look good, you're gonna. There's, like, a long list we could go through. Right. So it's not like she heard somewhere. It's like, it's been proven. She probably on herself.
Eldar [00:47:43]:
I can, I can tell you guys where I got this information and how I have, in a way, convinced myself, like, okay, if I want to feel better mentally and physically, then I have to get myself to the gym. So it's like, it's that attachment of the end result of, like, I'm not doing it for vanity. I'm doing it because I simply don't, you know, want to feel better.
Joe [00:48:05]:
You want to be better.
Eldar [00:48:06]:
Better just be a healthier person. So, you know, like, you know, for example, my therap will tell me, katherine, exercising. Exercise is proven to help with depression. No, you should try it.
Eldar [00:48:18]:
The thing is, you guys understand when the gym thing happens. And yes, maybe universal is just assume the gym, going to the gym and living a healthier lifestyle is better than sitting on the couch eating potato chips. Let's not assume that that's what you should do, but let's just look at that scenario. However, you're not taking consideration that there's a full day that's going on or the day before that's going on, or the day before that's going on, right? Different plans that hit you in such a way where just because you got excited and you just watched this Instagram story about this person talking about the gym in such an elaborate way that you got excited, this does not mean. This will translate the next day for you to actually go pick your ass up and go. You know what I'm saying? What this means is actually you did an improper planning, right, of your day, of your energy, of your mindset, in order for you to get to the. To the gym type of mentality, in order to go over there and fucking kill it. You understand? So what's happening is that in the morning, when I asked Mike, hey, Mike, you ready to go play basketball? Yeah, bro, of course.
Eldar [00:49:18]:
What I'm asking is, I'm asking for a clean slate. I'm asking during a clean slate. Mike just woke up. Mike did not get bombarded by his dad, by Emma, by his business, by his affiliates, by his customers. He didn't have 10,000 complaints, right? A day has passed, and now he got bombarded. At 6:00, I'm like, are you ready to go? Nah, I'm not ready to go. So what happened is six hours, eight hours has passed where Mike is no longer Mike that I have reached out to in the morning. There was no preservation of self throughout that time.
Eldar [00:49:49]:
So therefore, he has no motivation anymore, no energy or no type of capacity in order to make it out.
Joe [00:49:55]:
There is There any way to combat those three things?
Eldar [00:49:57]:
100%. But they don't start at the gym. Yeah, they don't start at the gym. So she's fooling herself.
Joe [00:50:03]:
Yeah. No, it definitely doesn't start at the gym.
Eldar [00:50:05]:
She's fooling herself.
Toliy [00:50:07]:
Yeah. It sounds like she's spreading herself then to begin with. Yeah. If she's wearing herself, then to begin with, there's nothing at the gym that's gonna happen that's gonna make her feel good to begin with. What's probably gonna happen is that she might go one time, get extremely sore and get discouraged crying again.
Joe [00:50:23]:
Correct.
Toliy [00:50:24]:
Because, like, and not gonna.
Eldar [00:50:25]:
And not to get to a thing that me. You experience when we go to the gym consistently, like, yo, I can't. I can't stop anymore because I like it so much. She never gets to that point because she's ham hogged. Right. Oppressed by all these things that I just described to you with Mike's scenario throughout the whole day, and you don't know what's going on in her head. You don't know. If you find out, you clearly find out that this person is actually overwhelmed throughout the whole time.
Eldar [00:50:49]:
So that's.
Joe [00:50:50]:
What's the solution to this, to this specific scenario?
Eldar [00:50:53]:
Well, that's the whole thing. Don't get too excited, bro. We're getting too excited.
Joe [00:50:59]:
Her better version of going about it.
Eldar [00:51:02]:
Probably say, one day, I'd like to be this type of person. I'd like to be a gym person. Because I have my reasons, my health reasons. I'd like to. Now let's open up the picture and find out what are some things they're going to require in order for you to become a gym person. That's it. And then you start extracting that. Okay, in order for you to go to a gym, what would you like to do? And then build a plan around it, like a business plan almost.
Eldar [00:51:26]:
Right. Structure a structure. Right. In order to become that person.
Denis [00:51:30]:
Go ahead.
Eldar [00:51:31]:
Do you say you don't just wake up every single morning, just one day?
Toliy [00:51:33]:
You say like, like that's not discipline.
Eldar [00:51:35]:
No, like setting. Like, almost like realistic, realist.
Eldar [00:51:39]:
No, no, no.
Eldar [00:51:40]:
What do you mean, like a plan?
Toliy [00:51:42]:
It's, it's, it's almost. Yeah, I would say it's almost like getting. Setting a schedule without setting a schedule.
Eldar [00:51:46]:
Yes.
Toliy [00:51:47]:
Like your natural way of life is your schedule that actually works for you and that actually, like, serves you.
Eldar [00:51:54]:
Like, what's happening? Just don't know yourself.
Eldar [00:51:56]:
The problem is I don't even have that.
Eldar [00:51:58]:
Correct.
Eldar [00:51:59]:
A Way of life that is serving me.
Eldar [00:52:01]:
Correct.
Denis [00:52:01]:
Yeah. I'm thinking what you guys are saying, you know, it kind of relates to cab, but also relates to totally, you know, situation, I think.
Eldar [00:52:15]:
Well, totally situation. We pinpointed it.
Denis [00:52:18]:
Yeah.
Eldar [00:52:19]:
That he just doesn't have any time. And also he's overwhelmed by all the stuff that's going on.
Denis [00:52:22]:
Yes.
Eldar [00:52:23]:
You know what I mean? And then what's happening is that they're constantly breeding anxiety.
Denis [00:52:27]:
Yeah.
Toliy [00:52:27]:
Which. Which again, like, to the outside person is an extremely funny paradox. Because, like, someone told you, like, hey, I don't have really time for shit. Right. Like, what would you say? Like, you'd probably be like, yo, kidding me there.
Joe [00:52:39]:
You mean like anybody?
Toliy [00:52:40]:
No, like, like you. You what to the capacity. You know, Know me. Right. Me telling you, like, I don't have time. Really? Like, is that comical to you?
Joe [00:52:50]:
Yeah, it's a little comical.
Toliy [00:52:52]:
Right, so. So, like, see, like. Right, right. Those kind of situations.
Eldar [00:52:56]:
But I'm telling you right now, I am convinced now, based on what we discussed, he has no time.
Joe [00:53:00]:
Yeah, but.
Denis [00:53:01]:
Yeah, yeah.
Joe [00:53:02]:
I mean, zero.
Denis [00:53:04]:
But the thing is.
Eldar [00:53:05]:
Zero.
Denis [00:53:06]:
So.
Eldar [00:53:06]:
So based on what you're thinking, what he needs. Right. Your prescription that you want to give him. You need discipline, bro. I completely disagree with that.
Joe [00:53:14]:
No, I. That. That much I understand.
Eldar [00:53:16]:
I actually know the remedy and I prescribed it. And we're gonna see where it's gonna land, but we're gonna see.
Joe [00:53:21]:
Oh, so you don't share?
Eldar [00:53:23]:
Well, remember, we don't get excited about this kind of stuff. You know, it.
Eldar [00:53:31]:
I know what he's gonna do, but you know, just in general, because we.
Eldar [00:53:34]:
Realize that it is time that he doesn't have. He actually don't have time because he's preoccupied with so many thoughts about so many things. So we know what we're going to do is we're going to try to not discipline, but give them more time.
Joe [00:53:49]:
How you. How are you going to give them more time?
Denis [00:53:52]:
Remove distractions.
Eldar [00:53:54]:
Remove distractions.
Joe [00:53:55]:
How you do that?
Denis [00:53:56]:
We're going to figure out the things that are distracting. Yeah, I think that's what. That's what. That's what everybody. I think. Not everybody. I think, you know, at least cat and Elder. I mean, a cat and totally you're suffering with.
Eldar [00:54:07]:
Yeah.
Denis [00:54:08]:
Is that they found ways to not face those things that they would like to face.
Eldar [00:54:14]:
Well, no, they became very good at distracting themselves.
Denis [00:54:16]:
Yes.
Eldar [00:54:16]:
To see themselves.
Denis [00:54:17]:
To not face. And I face those things that they want.
Eldar [00:54:20]:
Face themselves.
Denis [00:54:21]:
Face themselves. Okay. They don't want to face themselves.
Eldar [00:54:23]:
Yeah. And they're using the perpetual thing of being consumed by distractions is what doesn't allow you to do the actual things that you might actually want to do. You know what I'm saying? And the reason why that is is because the anxiety needs to be tame somehow. And these are the things that they use in order to tame that, in order to not be in their band aids that help the band aids. So they constantly do a little patchwork here, here, here and there.
Denis [00:54:49]:
And what's.
Eldar [00:54:49]:
What's going on is actually she doesn't have the time. So every time she tells me, I'm going to the gym, I'm like, oh, did you go? Oh, I didn't have the time. I had X, Y and Z to do. You know why you didn't have X, Y and Z to do? Because you were doing something else. Patching up somewhere else. Your anxiety to get started, for example, to get out of the house, you understand you needed to lay down because you overwhelmed by something else. Your mom called you, she did this to you, and it was over for you. Didn't know how to deal with her.
Eldar [00:55:12]:
Now you need half an hour to look at Instagram.
Denis [00:55:15]:
So would you say that everybody's plates are overly full?
Eldar [00:55:17]:
100%. Nobody has time.
Joe [00:55:19]:
She's saying, if she's using the time word, why are you piggybacking off of it as if, like, you're empowering it when I mean, like, I just believe it.
Eldar [00:55:27]:
What do you mean?
Joe [00:55:28]:
But from what I've understood through my life as well, and through. You know what, maybe some people smarter than me have depicted it as is, if the anxiety and all these things, this is in our head, right? Action a lot of times stops the stuff that's going on in our head, which by definition.
Eldar [00:55:49]:
It doesn't stop it. No, no. It distracts it still there. It's still there.
Joe [00:55:54]:
Sometimes. Literally stops it. Because, like, sometimes. And they also say, right, like we're. We're creatures of habit. For bad and for good. But for good, if we do it once and we force ourselves that one time to use the D word to do it. But then the second, third, fourth, fifth, all of a sudden I'm playing basketball at 7am every day.
Joe [00:56:10]:
I don't have to think about the thing that at one point, correct, was discipline.
Eldar [00:56:14]:
Let's say there was never discipline.
Toliy [00:56:17]:
There was never a forcing of anything.
Joe [00:56:19]:
Well, no, but, but like, what I'm saying is this, this stuff that's in their heads, like.
Eldar [00:56:23]:
Yeah.
Joe [00:56:26]:
Are you ruling out completely that, like a couple Steps of just action. Just like, structured discipline, actually. Like, yo, I'm gonna. It's gonna suck. Seven days, ten days. No, I mean, but you said, you.
Eldar [00:56:38]:
Ask me for, you know, later, they'll relapse.
Denis [00:56:40]:
The shortcut. You cannot use a shortcut.
Eldar [00:56:42]:
They're gonna relapse.
Joe [00:56:44]:
That's a shortcut at all.
Denis [00:56:45]:
If you don't. If you don't actually solve the problems that you have, but instead you strike yourself with going to the gym, those problems are gonna be with you.
Eldar [00:56:52]:
I think by understanding yourself, you're sooner or later gonna make the right choices. Inevitable gym park.
Joe [00:56:56]:
You're using that. Like, if I have another problem and I'm using the gym as just a scapegoat. But what if the gym is the actual problem? Like in this example, let's say she's having the problem of just getting to the gym, right?
Denis [00:57:06]:
Like, she's not having a problem getting to the gym.
Toliy [00:57:07]:
I think.
Eldar [00:57:07]:
Yeah.
Joe [00:57:09]:
You just said she doesn't have time.
Denis [00:57:10]:
That's enough. That's just a byproduct of the actual problem.
Eldar [00:57:13]:
No, no.
Joe [00:57:14]:
It was said that the time is the problem, though.
Denis [00:57:15]:
Yes.
Eldar [00:57:16]:
Yeah.
Joe [00:57:16]:
It's not the byproduct.
Denis [00:57:17]:
It doesn't have time.
Joe [00:57:18]:
Right.
Denis [00:57:19]:
Yeah.
Joe [00:57:20]:
So that's a problem.
Denis [00:57:21]:
She doesn't have time. Therefore she can't go to the gym and other things.
Eldar [00:57:25]:
Right.
Denis [00:57:25]:
But the reason why there's not time is something else.
Joe [00:57:28]:
My opinion is. And again, just cap, for the sake of. I don't even know your day.
Toliy [00:57:32]:
So it's for the sake of.
Joe [00:57:33]:
My opinion is that it's a scapegoat, that there's plenty of time. It's just the action to first take that first step. Or maybe she took the steps before, but now a little bit of time has passed where she hasn't taken the step and to do it again. It's. It's like a massive first. The first step is always this massive thing.
Denis [00:57:49]:
It will be hard to argue.
Eldar [00:57:50]:
Yeah.
Joe [00:57:51]:
But in order for you to sitting there waiting for that first step, the mind, the anxiety attacks us a million ways, and we're just like, we're handicapped.
Eldar [00:58:00]:
You'll burn out your burnout. Yeah.
Toliy [00:58:01]:
I'm gonna. I'm gonna have to say something, but it's gonna be insulting to the disciplined people out there in the world.
Eldar [00:58:08]:
Based on what I'm hearing, bro. They don't have the discipline to sit through this kind of.
Toliy [00:58:11]:
Bro. Based on what I'm hearing, right.
Joe [00:58:13]:
They do get paid to edit it.
Eldar [00:58:15]:
That's the point. Yeah.
Toliy [00:58:17]:
Remember that Right. The way you guys.
Eldar [00:58:20]:
Well, you have to pay them to fucking. Yeah, yeah.
Toliy [00:58:24]:
Based on how I'm hearing it and how you were just talking about, like, those steps and discipline. Right. I feel like if you have, for example, like, a busy mind. Right. And like you're saying if you just had the discipline take that step, it kind of could override that. Right. I'm like. I'm almost seeing.
Toliy [00:58:42]:
Is that, like, the way we're talking about discipline is to. To stop our mind from thinking and robotize, like, if that's a word our life.
Eldar [00:58:52]:
Automate it. Yeah.
Toliy [00:58:53]:
Is to use this discipline to prevent thinking and habits.
Denis [00:58:58]:
Correct.
Eldar [00:58:58]:
All right. And that's why you become angry and you don't know why you angry.
Toliy [00:59:01]:
Yeah.
Eldar [00:59:02]:
Why did.
Joe [00:59:02]:
Why did all these sages and all these people, they meditate to stop thinking. No. So yes, you are trying to. With action.
Eldar [00:59:09]:
No. They ultimately know why. Yeah, yeah. But ultimately they go on to the world and do. Right. Action and speech, using the thoughts here as good.
Joe [00:59:21]:
Now you're, like, thinking. Thinking is good.
Eldar [00:59:22]:
Yeah.
Joe [00:59:23]:
I think that, like, thinking is also bad because you talk about the anxiety, the.
Toliy [00:59:26]:
Yeah. I think that you need to face those things and. And. And get through them and not utilize like a. Like a form of punishment and like.
Joe [00:59:36]:
Oppression to just like, action taking. Living life and taking action, punishment.
Toliy [00:59:40]:
Because.
Denis [00:59:43]:
Because if you have an action without the thoughts behind it that's rooted in the truth, it's gonna be stupid.
Joe [00:59:48]:
I agree.
Eldar [00:59:49]:
Sooner or later, there's gonna be a burnout period. You're like, no. Am I doing this?
Denis [00:59:53]:
No. It's not just playing.
Eldar [00:59:54]:
You drop it. And hence. That's what happens to her. Every single time. She might do the first action. Okay. How many times does she have to do it in order to make it a habit?
Joe [01:00:01]:
A lot of times.
Eldar [01:00:02]:
How much? I don't know. Exactly.
Denis [01:00:05]:
You know what I'm saying?
Eldar [01:00:06]:
Exactly. How many you telling me that he got stuck on the basket basketball thing because he did it too many times like that? No, he actually likes it. If he skips this week or next week, he'll still come back in the third week, in the fourth week.
Toliy [01:00:18]:
And if I don't go.
Eldar [01:00:19]:
If you.
Toliy [01:00:20]:
If you don't.
Eldar [01:00:20]:
If I always find his way, if I get forced to go, if I.
Toliy [01:00:24]:
Get forced not to go, I'm gonna want to go even more. I'm gonna. I'm gonna be like, there's some things.
Joe [01:00:30]:
You don't need it. Like, you just. He naturally wants to do that. He. He has a love for that. For his whole life. Those things that.
Eldar [01:00:36]:
That's what we're trying to say that we need to tap into life. Things like such as these that are endless pits of fountain of youth where you constantly doing stuff that you actually like and why you pursuing.
Joe [01:00:47]:
Getting to that point.
Eldar [01:00:48]:
Yeah. It might take me a while, though.
Joe [01:00:49]:
In the meantime, there's other people that try to do it by just taking the action on things that they didn't have that infatuation with yet, but they had the infatuation with the outcome. I'll make another example. You mentioned this stepper thing.
Denis [01:01:01]:
It's a different school, bro.
Eldar [01:01:02]:
It is a different.
Joe [01:01:03]:
It's absolutely different.
Eldar [01:01:04]:
100%.
Toliy [01:01:05]:
You know, it's a school of like. Yeah, it's like a military stuff. Yes.
Joe [01:01:11]:
It's really not.
Toliy [01:01:12]:
It's just action, but it's not enjoyable. Action, but it's not enjoyable.
Joe [01:01:16]:
Okay, so let's. Let's talk about.
Denis [01:01:17]:
Life is not supposed to be an enjoyable.
Joe [01:01:20]:
We can circle back. When you're talking about not getting excited. Excited, but here you're talking about enjoyment, which is kind of from the same kind of camp of like. Why are you always talking about enjoyment? That I have to enjoy everything, but I'm not supposed to be excited always.
Eldar [01:01:32]:
Right.
Joe [01:01:32]:
So I'm supposed to have the balance.
Toliy [01:01:33]:
No, the whole point.
Joe [01:01:35]:
Enjoy everything.
Toliy [01:01:36]:
Can I.
Joe [01:01:36]:
Can I sometimes just have to do something? Because I am looking forward to the goal, which is going to be enjoyable, but it just takes a little work.
Eldar [01:01:43]:
That was a terrible life to live. Yeah. I mean, just to me, it sounds.
Joe [01:01:46]:
Like this small example you mentioned, the stepper. Real quick. I'll say it fast. After us.
Eldar [01:01:54]:
That defies the. Defies the fucking. It is this journey, not the destination. It's complete backwards. Yeah, okay, sorry. It's the journey that you're supposed to enjoy and do. It's not the destination you talking about. No, I don't want to do.
Eldar [01:02:08]:
You said. I don't. I don't like the journey. I just want the destination. I want the goal.
Joe [01:02:14]:
Let's be very clear. It's not that I don't like the journey. There's just gonna be things along the journey that you're not always 100%. I'm glad you're gonna love the journey.
Eldar [01:02:23]:
You know, you're gonna learn to love it.
Joe [01:02:25]:
The word play is to be used.
Toliy [01:02:26]:
If you want something bad enough. You're gonna learn to like it. Yeah. Yeah.
Eldar [01:02:30]:
This is true.
Joe [01:02:31]:
Holy shit. Example, the stepper thing. I got a little fat. After Asley came, I started not Liking what I'm looking, looking at in the mirror. I started feeling like. Like I'm feeling bad. I'm like, damn. Like, I don't, you know, like, I got out of shade and this and that, right? I put on a little pounce.
Joe [01:02:45]:
I bought this thing I got. I'm like, let me try it out. Because I didn't want to go to the outside to do the thing because the kids bullied me over there, you know, like, they yell at me and stuff at the playground. So I wanted my own elliptical, but I wanted something small. I buy it off Amazon for like 120 bucks. I try it out, this thing, like it's kind of whack. It was whack. But I was making sure to.
Joe [01:03:06]:
Because I know how to monitor shit. Like it was burning the calories that I needed it to burn based on my system, right? And so I did it and I did it for a month and I accomplished the goal, got back to the weight that I want to be at, and now I'm happy again, right? Being there, the end goal brings me happiness. How I feel, what I'm able to look at in the mirror, let's say, and how I also feel, or I'm not. Like, I just feel like a sluggish type of a thing. I accomplished that goal by doing something that I don't necessarily love. And I had to get on that thing the first time and be like, blah, you know, like. And I also don't have time. That was the month where Astley left.
Joe [01:03:38]:
I'm like, yo, I gotta really, really ramp up the trading study. So I'm studying all day. I didn't have the time. I didn't really want to do this shit. This shit is whack. I also had to cut during it. Whatever. I don't have the time for any of it.
Joe [01:03:50]:
But I'm like, yo, I want the end result, so I'm gonna do it. A month later, I had the end result. Now I have the end result for the third, second month already without even no longer having to go through that issue again. I accomplished the goal. But like, without doing that thing, without getting on this stupid ass thing, I wouldn't have accomplished. I could have, sure, you could argue I could have used something else. But in this particular case, I wanted to be home. So I figured out, I'm like, yo, if I use this thing, I could be home and I could kind of have more time and not run around to the place.
Joe [01:04:16]:
So this small example because you brought up the steps is I did not like doing the steps at all. At no point was. I was like, this is really great. But I knew that there's an end result, and I got it. And then now I've been enjoying for two whole months the fruits of that labor. And so I feel like the world is still designed, the universe, in a way where, like, everything is working. The trees, the flowers, everything the bees are pollinating.
Eldar [01:04:38]:
Like, it's.
Joe [01:04:39]:
It's. There's a flow to it that we find in action, not just in sitting and thinking and. Yeah. No, there's a route to a root, to a root, to a root, to a root. Maybe I'll find the root of it. It's like, you'll take the first step, and then you'll take the first step. And sometimes, yeah, the action will lead you to realize, okay, maybe that was the wrong action. But a lot of times with the things that this is, there's just, like, a mental barrier on.
Joe [01:04:59]:
I still believe the action solves a lot of that. Not just blindly, but.
Toliy [01:05:04]:
I mean, if you feel that that works for you and that serves you and that makes you happy, then, yeah, definitely continue doing.
Eldar [01:05:10]:
Okay.
Denis [01:05:10]:
When you. When you are genuinely doing things that you don't like, genuinely. Bear with me. This might sound weird, but, you know, we can work it backwards. When you do it generally don't. Like, you never have time. That makes sense.
Eldar [01:05:23]:
Yeah.
Denis [01:05:23]:
You don't like, even. Like, for example, everybody doesn't time.
Eldar [01:05:33]:
Yeah.
Denis [01:05:34]:
And he uses distractions. Right. Which you can say in the moment he likes.
Eldar [01:05:39]:
Yeah.
Denis [01:05:39]:
But if you get to the core of it, he probably doesn't like it, right?
Eldar [01:05:43]:
Yeah, probably not.
Denis [01:05:46]:
You know, does it make sense?
Eldar [01:05:49]:
Well, yeah. Yeah. It's not. He's not supposed to like it.
Denis [01:05:52]:
He's not. So it's. It's only supposed to be used as that kind of like whatever is being used for.
Eldar [01:05:57]:
Right. For the moment.
Denis [01:05:58]:
For the moment.
Eldar [01:05:58]:
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, the whole thing about, I think, getting excited or saying things out loud. Right. Especially. I don't.
Toliy [01:06:08]:
I don't.
Eldar [01:06:09]:
The reason why we came to this thing anyway, with Totally. Is because he said certain things, Put certain things on the borders and said, yeah, I want to do this. I want to be this guy.
Denis [01:06:16]:
Yeah.
Eldar [01:06:16]:
This is how I see myself. Right. And there was no actual, real actions behind it. Right.
Denis [01:06:22]:
Mm.
Eldar [01:06:23]:
And he kept being puzzled. That's like, I don't have energy. I don't have energy. I don't have energy to do any of this stuff. It requires so much energy. You know what I mean? Like he wants to do it, but he can't. There's failure to launch. And he was in that moment, probably looking at it in a different way, right? Where he's like, okay, wait a second, I need to stop eating carbs.
Eldar [01:06:42]:
Why don't you stop eating carbs? Because carbs are linked to low energy. You know what I mean? Slows you down, makes, brings up serotonin. Serotonin leads to melatonin. Yeah. Go to sleep.
Denis [01:06:53]:
You know what I mean?
Eldar [01:06:53]:
All this nonsense.
Denis [01:06:54]:
Yeah.
Eldar [01:06:54]:
He knew that. He's like, I gotta stop doing that, you know? And he's like, but I can't do that. I like bread. You know what I mean? So he's in the, in the loop where it's like, I want to eat bread.
Denis [01:07:05]:
It's.
Eldar [01:07:05]:
You know what I'm saying? I want to eat bread because I like it and I want to get there, but I can't be eating bread. You know what I mean? So he's stuck.
Denis [01:07:12]:
He's a constantly thing where.
Eldar [01:07:14]:
So he picks it up, he tries it out, you know, through discipline or whatever it is, through forceful actions. He never gets anywhere.
Denis [01:07:20]:
Right.
Eldar [01:07:20]:
Because he drops it sooner or later. And then he goes back to like, man, but I really want to do that. But I eat bread, I get tired.
Denis [01:07:26]:
Yeah.
Eldar [01:07:27]:
You know what I'm saying?
Denis [01:07:28]:
I do.
Eldar [01:07:28]:
But then we have examples of like basketball thing where he clearly has plenty of energy, able to run 10 games in a row, three hours straight, break a sweat and do everything and actually enjoys himself. And that's a really serious physical activity. This is not just walking in the park, for example. This is. He's exerting himself. We clearly see that. You know what I mean? So that phenomenon right there is just. It's an example, I think that where you thinking about one thing, one way, but you're completely off and you're wrong.
Eldar [01:07:56]:
Like you said earlier, you know, you're trying to solve it the backwards way.
Denis [01:08:00]:
Right.
Eldar [01:08:01]:
You know?
Denis [01:08:01]:
Right.
Joe [01:08:03]:
So I'm still curious about the frontwards way. You, you still.
Denis [01:08:07]:
You're. Frontwards way is the discipline.
Joe [01:08:11]:
Discipline is the backwards way. In this example.
Eldar [01:08:13]:
Yeah.
Joe [01:08:14]:
What's the frontwards way?
Denis [01:08:16]:
The front words. Way is the front words.
Eldar [01:08:17]:
Where you'd like to find out. No, you'd like to find out what's actually going on. Okay, so in your life.
Joe [01:08:23]:
Which means what? In this example and Toli's example.
Eldar [01:08:26]:
Toli's example, he doesn't have time.
Joe [01:08:29]:
What the hell does that mean?
Eldar [01:08:30]:
He doesn't have time. So he's constantly preoccupied with thoughts about other things than those things that he put on the board. Right. And you know those things. Right?
Denis [01:08:39]:
Sure.
Joe [01:08:40]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Eldar [01:08:40]:
Okay. So because of the fact that he's constantly in that. In that world, he never finds actual time for himself. So anything that he wants to actually do and accomplish is bombarded by something else. So he never gets to start or actually accomplish it. So we found out that he needs to find time for himself.
Joe [01:09:01]:
How are you gonna do that?
Eldar [01:09:04]:
Show him then.
Joe [01:09:07]:
Guys, I gotta go. I gotta go. Holy shit. Wow. Nice.
Eldar [01:09:17]:
What's happening now?
Eldar [01:09:19]:
Yeah, so he just showed Dennis, who was very curious as to chief. He got himself a flip phone.
Joe [01:09:25]:
It's a good thing.
Eldar [01:09:26]:
Wow. These are like just what, 15 years ago or something? Oh, you can still text totally though.
Toliy [01:09:33]:
Yeah. But you have to go forth like four times on one thing.
Eldar [01:09:36]:
How about who's fixing your attention?
Eldar [01:09:38]:
Omy, like.
Eldar [01:09:44]:
What'S his name?
Joe [01:09:47]:
You can just point like this if you need.
Eldar [01:09:49]:
No, no, no. I think it was his idea because he actually came up with the problem.
Joe [01:09:53]:
He said, yo, don't give me like that. Whose idea was the brick phone? Let's be serious.
Eldar [01:09:57]:
You know, I mean, we came. Came to a conclusion that he actually is distracting himself constantly with things. Right. That are. He's multitasking constantly. He's not actually focused. Yeah. And after, you know, actually examining, found out that social media, sports, and all this other stuff is completely taken over his life.
Eldar [01:10:16]:
So me and Mike, I think, I mean, me, Mike and Tony were both here. We're all here and we're like, yo, we found out the culprit.
Eldar [01:10:24]:
I actually walked in. I can attest to this.
Eldar [01:10:26]:
Yeah. And we. We found this culprit that to be the time. His phone is one of those big distractions to him that causing him actually anxiety. Damn.
Joe [01:10:36]:
So now again, I might not be the smartest guy.
Eldar [01:10:39]:
Yeah.
Joe [01:10:40]:
Definitely not in the room. Maybe in the whole fucking 07410.
Eldar [01:10:45]:
Don't give up.
Joe [01:10:46]:
Correct me if I'm wrong.
Eldar [01:10:49]:
That's why he's not the smartest. He told you delete them.
Joe [01:10:56]:
A structure and a discipline was applied to his life to help him with the outcome.
Eldar [01:11:01]:
What? What in which sense, my friend?
Joe [01:11:04]:
Well, removing social media and exchanging it with a brick phone.
Eldar [01:11:08]:
Right.
Joe [01:11:08]:
Like there was an action created a structure.
Eldar [01:11:10]:
Right.
Joe [01:11:11]:
To eliminate a distraction that can allow him to do the things that he should be doing or needs to be doing.
Denis [01:11:16]:
If it was forced, then his discipline, if it was a choice at all.
Eldar [01:11:19]:
Yeah. This.
Joe [01:11:20]:
This is not like this Is he. He just really wanted to have a brick phone?
Eldar [01:11:24]:
I'm pretty sure he didn't.
Joe [01:11:27]:
He wanted the outcome at the end of it.
Eldar [01:11:30]:
No, I think the individual clearly starts seeing what are the low hanging fruit here after he's constantly complaining. This is. This is a. This is not like overnight. This. We didn't have this conversation yesterday. He got it today. Right.
Eldar [01:11:40]:
So some time has passed.
Joe [01:11:41]:
I think this is low hanging fruit at all. I think that's a major step.
Eldar [01:11:45]:
Well, I hope so. I mean. So you agree with the step? No, no. 100.
Denis [01:11:49]:
He just wants to call it discipline.
Eldar [01:11:52]:
I don't see how this is discipline at all.
Joe [01:11:53]:
It's a structure.
Eldar [01:11:55]:
No. Well, you felt like you were. You were forced to do this.
Joe [01:11:58]:
Why are you defining this like forced to do this? It's like it's applying certain.
Eldar [01:12:02]:
Do you want to do this or no?
Toliy [01:12:03]:
I do want to do this.
Joe [01:12:05]:
You want to have a brick phone.
Eldar [01:12:06]:
So when you get all that want.
Joe [01:12:08]:
The outcome of the brick phone, you want to just.
Toliy [01:12:10]:
I want to have a brick phone right now.
Joe [01:12:11]:
Okay.
Eldar [01:12:12]:
Yeah.
Toliy [01:12:13]:
But I do have desire to learn how to have a. Like a smartphone and it like.
Eldar [01:12:19]:
And not have all the conditions that.
Toliy [01:12:20]:
He does have it. Like. Like once you have contributor, it's ruining my. My life.
Joe [01:12:26]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, listen, this. This is pretty cool.
Eldar [01:12:30]:
You have to understand though, the difference between you jumping on that treadmill or whatever you're jumping on and saying that I'm not enjoying this experience at all versus him. Right. You're forcing yourself there to do that in order to get the goal. I'm not sure if he's being forced by anyone, himself, my, myself or Mike here in order to get this phone. If he is, this is not the right route.
Denis [01:12:50]:
Yeah, this is. If he doesn't believe in this not work, if he doesn't believe it on his own and he's forced, he's fucked. Then this shit is dead.
Eldar [01:12:56]:
Yeah.
Denis [01:12:56]:
Might as well go to the back to the phone.
Eldar [01:12:58]:
Correct.
Denis [01:12:59]:
While the 15 day period to cancel.
Joe [01:13:00]:
You say believe it. Let me just try to understand. I am. I may not love to get on that thing, but I was believing in it.
Denis [01:13:07]:
No, you. I don't think you. I'm not sure if you were.
Eldar [01:13:09]:
No.
Joe [01:13:09]:
100%. I was because I knew what it was gonna do. I just wasn't.
Denis [01:13:13]:
Yeah. I don't think it's possible to believe in something and have an attachment to it that's future dated. But I also like, if you believe in something, you don't care where it's gonna get you. You only care about what you're doing, I think.
Eldar [01:13:29]:
Hmm. I don't know.
Joe [01:13:31]:
But I don't know. That's an interesting rerouted definition of your lake.
Denis [01:13:35]:
Like, if you believe in something, I don't know if your main is the end or the. Or the actual journey.
Joe [01:13:42]:
It's probably both. That would be the healthy.
Denis [01:13:44]:
But probably the journey has to come first on priorities, and then the end is just like a side effect.
Toliy [01:13:54]:
If you ask yourself, I mean, I would say almost 100% chance.
Eldar [01:14:00]:
Right.
Toliy [01:14:00]:
That like anything that you do right now in life. Right. You would prefer to join, enjoy the process of doing it. So that would be your preference.
Joe [01:14:11]:
A thousand percent.
Toliy [01:14:12]:
But instances where you don't know how to accomplish that, you apply discipline.
Eldar [01:14:16]:
Correct. But you didn't mention that he's not the brightest crayon.
Denis [01:14:19]:
Yeah. But also what you're saying, the accomplishment thing is one thing, but before the.
Joe [01:14:24]:
Accomplishment, they're supposed to go like, oi, blah. But I don't think they caught it fast enough.
Toliy [01:14:29]:
That's good.
Denis [01:14:33]:
Yeah. I was saying the accomplishing thing is one thing, and I think, like, that's. That's separate. But the underlying part is a lot of times we're doing things that we think are good for us, and we're confused about the choice we're making, even in something that we think we love. As we just discovered with you, for example.
Eldar [01:14:51]:
Right. Yeah.
Denis [01:14:51]:
You are in the impression that you love basketball. All of a sudden, basketball is killing you.
Eldar [01:14:55]:
Yeah.
Denis [01:14:55]:
You know.
Eldar [01:14:56]:
Correct.
Denis [01:14:57]:
That's the whole. That's. That's the problem. You know, it might be healthy for.
Toliy [01:15:01]:
You to hit a solid 30 over the head.
Joe [01:15:04]:
Yeah. You mentioned before I lost it. You were saying something.
Eldar [01:15:11]:
I lost it.
Joe [01:15:12]:
You asked me something.
Toliy [01:15:13]:
Yeah, I was saying that you would obviously prefer to enjoy everything that you do.
Joe [01:15:18]:
Yeah.
Toliy [01:15:18]:
And if you don't get the goal.
Eldar [01:15:20]:
And get the end goal.
Toliy [01:15:21]:
Yes.
Eldar [01:15:21]:
He desires as well. Obviously. Yes.
Toliy [01:15:23]:
But for the things that you don't know how you can accomplish something and enjoy. And enjoy the process of it, you apply discipline and those things.
Eldar [01:15:32]:
Correct.
Joe [01:15:33]:
Yeah. I have to go back to that example with. To answer that.
Eldar [01:15:36]:
Just with that.
Joe [01:15:36]:
That I mentioned the last time we had this debate, which was when we were discussing. You were trying to argue about, you know, along the lines of the same thing that you got to love everything that you do. You got to build a life that you love everything.
Eldar [01:15:48]:
No, you try. You don't have to.
Joe [01:15:50]:
You guys say that that's the ideal is how to.
Eldar [01:15:52]:
No if you can, if you have the means, if you have the, if you capacity.
Joe [01:15:57]:
A brighter crayon in the box.
Eldar [01:15:58]:
You hope so, yeah. If not, you can buy it.
Denis [01:16:01]:
A kid is crying at 4am in the morning. You love that kid. Remember I mentioned this example? You guys didn't really answer me on that one. You, you have work in three hours, you just only slept three or four, right? Like you gotta go pick up that kid in the middle of the night. You're not, you're not gonna love, there's nothing about it that you're gonna love, but you love the kid. And you know that there's a necessity for that kid to, for you to go over there and pick him up. Like you're just not gonna love everything, you know what I mean? But you're gonna, you're gonna, in that moment, through action, understand? Like, yo, and through a little bit of thought, obviously, hey, listen, I love that child, that dog, since you, you guys are, you know, and like I'll do anything for that thing, even if it's gonna cause me inconvenience. I go and walk Lucky.
Denis [01:16:44]:
I mean, I think I'm on a crazy streak of like, it's got to be months and months in a row already where like sometimes I even catch myself like, yo, it's okay if I don't go every day. I go and walk the dog every night over there to my parents house, even when I kind of don't want to. Yesterday it was raining, we went, he's waiting for me, he wants to go. He's sitting on that deck waiting for me, looking like, yo, where's D Money at? Like we're boys. That's my brother, I gotta go get him. I yesterday did not want to go in the rain to go get him, but the outcome of bringing joy to him brought joy to me through the action. But if I never took that action, if I just said, you know, I really don't feel like it, I just don't have the time, I really don't feel like it. I really want to just study trading instead or whatever, then he suffers.
Joe [01:17:25]:
I don't get the enjoyment of taking the action, which is what a human being is supposed to be doing in flow and in action. And then the final outcome of like, what he got taken care of. And that brought me also joy and him.
Eldar [01:17:36]:
How do you know he suffers? How do you prove to yourself that he actually.
Joe [01:17:39]:
Because he didn't take a shit that day. If I don't try and he's a little sadder he goes and.
Eldar [01:17:43]:
Oh, no, no. If he's constipated, he didn't poop that day. Obviously he's not.
Toliy [01:17:47]:
Yeah, but. But also, like, you're. You're going over there out of, like, guilt and bad feelings, right?
Joe [01:17:52]:
No, but see, no, because you said.
Toliy [01:17:54]:
I don't want to go.
Joe [01:17:54]:
It's not a guilt. It's a. I'm going there out of. Out of a.
Eldar [01:17:57]:
That.
Toliy [01:17:58]:
No, but you don't want to go.
Joe [01:17:59]:
It requires. He counts on me.
Toliy [01:18:02]:
That's what I'm saying. And if you don't go, even when you don't want to go, you feel guilty, Right.
Denis [01:18:06]:
If you would. If you would have known what you were signing up for at the beginning.
Toliy [01:18:10]:
Of the journey, that's what I'm saying.
Denis [01:18:12]:
Then you wouldn't have those things.
Toliy [01:18:13]:
But same thing with the baby and work, right? It's like you're bringing up a. Like an example that, like, you chose to put yourself into. Right. And if, like, if you're. Like, if you have a crying baby and you know that you're gonna have a crying baby. Yeah, right. Then, like, if you're also choosing them to go to work. Like.
Toliy [01:18:36]:
Like, if you. If you know that you have work every day. Like, if you're choosing to have a.
Denis [01:18:41]:
Baby and you're choosing.
Toliy [01:18:42]:
And you're choosing to have a baby without thinking that I'm cry and you're not setting yourself up where you're not the one that has to, for example, wake up and stuff like that. Like, you're forcing yourself into suffering.
Eldar [01:18:54]:
Like, for sure that's what you're doing from the role. That's it. Yeah.
Joe [01:18:59]:
So. So should we just not do anything then?
Eldar [01:19:02]:
Who's saying that?
Toliy [01:19:03]:
Yeah.
Joe [01:19:04]:
No, and this you're saying, like, yo, if you knew that in advance, you wouldn't make the decision, therefore, you wouldn't end up in that situation.
Eldar [01:19:09]:
Yeah.
Joe [01:19:09]:
I'm telling you, even in a more ideal scenario, I'm. I know that that baby's gonna be crying. I still have the baby.
Eldar [01:19:16]:
Yes.
Toliy [01:19:16]:
Then you are subjecting yourself to being okay with what's suffering.
Eldar [01:19:21]:
Well, sure.
Joe [01:19:22]:
100%.
Toliy [01:19:23]:
Yeah.
Joe [01:19:23]:
Through the end outcome, being there. And you're willing to get that end outcome by going through that.
Toliy [01:19:29]:
But what do you mean by being there? But what do you mean by being.
Joe [01:19:32]:
Suffering turns into a lot of joy because through the action, you actually find, like, yo, this is what's up. Like, like, I'm getting the care for something or whatever, or even on the goddamn thing. It's like, oh, this is, this actually doesn't feel so good. I don't love it.
Toliy [01:19:43]:
But what, what are you getting out of it? What do you, what are you like.
Joe [01:19:47]:
Which, what are you talking about?
Toliy [01:19:48]:
Like in your example, what are you getting out of it?
Joe [01:19:52]:
Well enough.
Toliy [01:19:53]:
No, no, no. In the, in like the child example. Like you, you're clearly not in a the position it sounds like to be able to like to enjoy your life and care for it.
Eldar [01:20:06]:
Care told you that just because.
Toliy [01:20:09]:
Well, yeah. Cuz you're saying is that like you're not gonna always like what, what you do, right? So like you're putting yourself in a position where you are not going to like what you do ahead of time. Like knowingly.
Eldar [01:20:20]:
Right.
Joe [01:20:20]:
4:00Am like man, maybe there's one in 300 people that are like yeah, I really love to get interrupted in the middle of my sleep. Like I would, I would wait.
Eldar [01:20:31]:
Most people don't.
Toliy [01:20:32]:
That's what I'm saying is that like. But you know this by having a kid and, and like if you know that this will be part of your responsibilities, you are subjecting absolutely yourself to not having a good time.
Denis [01:20:43]:
A good time for the, for the moment.
Joe [01:20:46]:
But then the good time comes from like wow, like he calmed down or he had that giggle with me or whatever and I got to enjoy it and it's like all worth it or whatever you want to painted as which it happens or later on it's like wow. Like because of those nights, now he's doing this or he's acting like this. And that brings me so much. So it all comes together. Life always does. But like in that moment nobody at 4am wants to get up. Most people I would get, I would wager. So like are we subjecting ourselves to a lot of things? Sure.
Joe [01:21:13]:
Ideally, yeah. I mean, yeah, that's what I'm saying. I'm trying to. I'm trying to. Like Mike is right. It's two different schools of.
Eldar [01:21:19]:
But would you say that there are some parents that are very happy to get up at that time for the kid or completely not? I don't.
Joe [01:21:25]:
That's what I'm. I, I would wager probably not. I mean even if you all day.
Eldar [01:21:29]:
Home, how about the people that get up at 4 in the morning to start the grind?
Joe [01:21:34]:
To what?
Eldar [01:21:34]:
To start the grind.
Joe [01:21:35]:
Well, no, that's different. Sure. How you getting up during that time? Okay. For that person you would have to have them get up.
Eldar [01:21:41]:
But they do exist, right?
Joe [01:21:42]:
Midnight.
Eldar [01:21:42]:
But they do exist, right? Oh, you mean. Look at you structuring in such a way.
Toliy [01:21:45]:
You're instructing a way where it's guaranteed suffering failure. That's what I'm saying. Is that like.
Eldar [01:21:49]:
Yeah, you are gonna.
Toliy [01:21:52]:
Yeah, yeah.
Eldar [01:21:52]:
You mean that all the parents experience this? Obviously.
Toliy [01:21:55]:
Yeah, you're. Yeah, he's bringing up an example where you're a guarantee to suffer.
Eldar [01:21:59]:
Correct. Yeah, yeah.
Joe [01:22:01]:
I don't know. I don't know how you. You know, I guess you're saying that the answer to what I'm saying is that there's no way to love this. It's just that the root decision to have the child was just wrong.
Toliy [01:22:15]:
You have to. Yeah, yeah. You have to have the proper decision making and be in the proper situation.
Eldar [01:22:21]:
And assume if you are. Yeah. If there's some responsibilities, that raising a child is part of that thing, part of the gig. Waking up in the morning, 4am Then that's something that you assume. This is not one of those things where it's like, oh, here's a surprise.
Toliy [01:22:34]:
Gotta wake up a fuckers even sleep through the night.
Eldar [01:22:36]:
Yeah. You know what I mean?
Joe [01:22:39]:
It's like, isn't surprised. My point is just the. Just the initial reaction and the feeling like, yo, I don't want to do this. I don't have time for this. I'm sleeping. But you get up and you go.
Eldar [01:22:49]:
Listen, if you have a kid, bro, I hope you don't have that type of feeling.
Joe [01:22:53]:
Okay?
Eldar [01:22:54]:
I mean, I wish that for you. You know what I mean? I mean, obviously I wish that for myself that if we do have a child, that I will not at 4 in the morning if the kid cries. I hope that I don't have that type of attitude where I'm like, every.
Toliy [01:23:04]:
Time you suck in your teeth.
Eldar [01:23:05]:
Sucking my teeth.
Toliy [01:23:06]:
Yeah.
Joe [01:23:07]:
It's about like, you just said this. I didn't. I'm saying that in that moment, your initial reaction is like, yo, yeah, I gotta get up. You know what I mean?
Eldar [01:23:15]:
I mean. Yeah, but you know, I wish.
Joe [01:23:17]:
Oh, my God, I hate. It's like, no, I gotta force myself through a little bit of discipline to get up and go get the kid. Because there's a responsibility.
Eldar [01:23:25]:
Right? Like, yeah.
Joe [01:23:26]:
There's no way for me to just say, you know what, child? Like, I don't have the time right now to deal with you. I'm going through some other things.
Eldar [01:23:32]:
Yeah.
Joe [01:23:33]:
I gotta iron those things out.
Eldar [01:23:34]:
I just.
Joe [01:23:35]:
I don't know.
Denis [01:23:35]:
Yeah.
Joe [01:23:36]:
To what extent you guys are gonna go through the process of.
Eldar [01:23:38]:
Well, listen, Dennis, we're definitely not trying to bat a thousand yeah, we've been. We've been saying that recently. We're not. We're not. We're. I mean, one day, maybe one day we can. But I think because of the fact that we're human beings, that we have a mind, hopefully one that thinks we're trying to get to a place, we are doing things, like you said, that we actually like, and we're, you know, tapping into that kind of source of energy.
Joe [01:24:02]:
And what are you going to do in the things that you don't. When you do have to do the things that you don't like, though?
Denis [01:24:06]:
I mean.
Eldar [01:24:06]:
But I do. I do do. I know you do. And I do them pretty well still. You know what I'm saying? Sure. But obviously, you know, as I learn more stuff, I'd like to get myself into a position where I surround myself as much as possible around those things that I actually do enjoy. But that is not the case in my life. D.
Eldar [01:24:24]:
And I do still do them by using certain disciplines, bro. You know what I'm saying? It could be a discipline, could be that. But doesn't. Doesn't. This doesn't mean I can't strive towards bettering my life and trying to eliminate certain disciplines and trying to enjoy the things that I do. Like, I enjoy gym differently than Catherine enjoys the gym, and I got there somehow. Right. She hasn't got there yet.
Eldar [01:24:45]:
Maybe one day she will, you know, without having to force herself. Because clearly that wasn't probably.
Toliy [01:24:52]:
I associate with, like, you hate going to, for example, like, to physical stores, right? Yeah, something like doing that. That's like, no, I don't like to do that.
Eldar [01:25:01]:
Yeah, Catherine likes to do that. So what happens is. Right. So what happens is I don't care about the clothing that I guess I wear because Catherine makes decent enough choices for me to. When she brings them, she's like, try this out, Try this out. I say, I like this. I don't like this. She returns the rest.
Eldar [01:25:14]:
And this is a perfect case scenario for me. I don't have to go, which is a big part of a lot of people's lives. I think, you know, of going shopping. Some people don't have. Don't like shopping, but they have to go. I don't have to go because I don't like it and somebody else does it for me. This is great.
Toliy [01:25:29]:
Yeah, I guess. I tell you, find one. One shirt and you just buy it in 10 colors.
Eldar [01:25:33]:
I will do that. I will do that 100%.
Toliy [01:25:35]:
Yeah.
Eldar [01:25:36]:
I would do that. Yeah. I'm just not Allowed to do it. To do it, you know?
Joe [01:25:42]:
Yeah. I mean. All right, so you're saying it's just like a striving thing.
Eldar [01:25:46]:
Well, do you feel like anybody in this room accomplished that or something? Like, are you under that impression?
Joe [01:25:52]:
No, I'm just.
Eldar [01:25:52]:
We're push. We're trying to push individual. I mean, sure. We're trying to promote this thing about, hey, Catherine, Try to find a way that. Where you can naturally draw the energy to go to the gym and effortlessly, like we do with me and Mike. You know what I mean? That would be great, you know, but no, you know, it's. I don't think we're doing it. I don't think everybody's there.
Eldar [01:26:14]:
Everybody has their own little things, you know. All right, well, as a person that's.
Eldar [01:26:22]:
Like, struggling with, you know, like.
Joe [01:26:25]:
Yeah. What are your thoughts?
Eldar [01:26:25]:
The gym. I agree. I agree with everything that they said.
Eldar [01:26:29]:
Also, you don't agree with Dennis's approach. You agree with our.
Eldar [01:26:32]:
That approach doesn't work for me specifically.
Eldar [01:26:34]:
Okay.
Eldar [01:26:34]:
Can it work for individuals? Absolutely.
Eldar [01:26:37]:
But he has an argument why it doesn't work for you because you actually didn't try it.
Eldar [01:26:40]:
His approach with discipline, I would say I've. I've tried that. You know, I've tried, you know, taking myself back into college and finishing something and trying to have some discipline and, like, go through the motions of, like, I'm not gonna enjoy myself right now, but, you know, it'll be really nice to finally finish my degree and have that goal of, you know, something that I worked on for many years in my life, and I wasn't enjoying it, so I stopped, you know.
Eldar [01:27:10]:
So what would you suggest for.
Joe [01:27:11]:
Well, part of discipline is persevering.
Eldar [01:27:14]:
Perseverance. Exactly.
Eldar [01:27:16]:
She couldn't do it. She's not good at this.
Eldar [01:27:18]:
I think I've. I think for a long time I did do that.
Eldar [01:27:22]:
Would you say I'm the cop?
Joe [01:27:23]:
Would you say.
Eldar [01:27:24]:
Would you say I'm also the culprit of this making. Oh, no. Of what? Of her failing certain things that require discipline. And then Elder was there, kind of like, ah, you know, come on.
Eldar [01:27:33]:
Discipline didn't work for me in the past. It really hasn't.
Eldar [01:27:36]:
She did come to me. She's in school and she's going. And she's like, yo, I hate this. You know what I said? You know what I said?
Toliy [01:27:44]:
You have not promoted to. You hate going to school so far.
Eldar [01:27:47]:
Yes. Maybe I'm learning the wrong things.
Denis [01:27:50]:
Yeah.
Eldar [01:27:50]:
I don't know. Maybe I'm not learning the right things yet.
Denis [01:27:53]:
Yeah, it's tough to learn.
Eldar [01:27:54]:
It's hard. But I have to stick my man. I have to figure, you know, I have to try it. And.
Denis [01:28:00]:
There's no way to avoid learning about yourself.
Eldar [01:28:04]:
I mean, that's a good one.
Denis [01:28:05]:
That's how I feel.
Toliy [01:28:06]:
There is a way with enough discipline.
Eldar [01:28:09]:
Oh, my God. You guys are.
Eldar [01:28:12]:
Mike, what did you say?
Denis [01:28:14]:
There's no way to avoid learning about yourself.
Eldar [01:28:17]:
Oh, my. Yo, hold on one second, please. Mike. Yeah, say one and then totally have to follow through. That's a crazy T shirt. There is no way to avoid learning about learning about yourself.
Denis [01:28:33]:
Why don't you.
Eldar [01:28:34]:
So they don't get ahead of us.
Denis [01:28:35]:
Yeah. Why? This is why there is.
Toliy [01:28:39]:
With enough discipline.
Eldar [01:28:42]:
Oh, damn.
Denis [01:28:43]:
Yeah, and I think that's. I think that's what Catherine keeps struggling with.
Eldar [01:28:47]:
Yo, D, you're resilient as, bro. Yo, I'm putting that in the T shirt, y'all. I'm resilient as Joe.
Joe [01:28:55]:
Missed a good episode.
Denis [01:28:56]:
Limited edition T shirt. I'm Brazilian.
Eldar [01:28:58]:
As Joe is about discipline.
Joe [01:28:59]:
We're talking about this last time. Yeah. Yeah, they didn't really.
Eldar [01:29:02]:
Oh, I haven't heard that one. They didn't go far with him. Yeah, no, and I think that he.
Eldar [01:29:07]:
Man, you. You iron, bro. Like, you're steel. You made on steel, bro.
Toliy [01:29:13]:
D is made of that thing that my grandma. That thing that'll never break.
Denis [01:29:20]:
What?
Eldar [01:29:21]:
Cast iron, bro?
Joe [01:29:22]:
Yeah, he said. He said, you know, he think he backed off the T shirt joke and said, wouldn't off this, but. But then circle back to this thing where it's like, you laughed at it, but I mean, it's kind of like a truth where it's like, part of discipline.
Denis [01:29:36]:
Yeah. You know what? We'll have to compare notes, like, on that type.
Joe [01:29:40]:
Part of discipline is.
Denis [01:29:42]:
That's how I feel about this example.
Joe [01:29:45]:
You gotta. You gotta keep. Part of it is to keep going. That's the. That's the key there.
Eldar [01:29:50]:
Right?
Joe [01:29:50]:
It's not, like, discipline for a moment.
Eldar [01:29:52]:
Like a. Like.
Eldar [01:29:56]:
No, but. Yeah, but you. How long is the stamina? Sure. No, there's no stamina for that.
Toliy [01:30:01]:
I.
Eldar [01:30:01]:
And the thing is, I don't have stamina. The stamina is not there. It's impossible, you know, so it's really hard for you.
Toliy [01:30:08]:
Especially funny. Her lack of discipline shows how much she wants to get to know herself versus not.
Eldar [01:30:13]:
That's exactly right.
Toliy [01:30:14]:
Because, like, that's right.
Eldar [01:30:15]:
It forces you to be like, yo, the. Am I doing here? Why am I doing this?
Joe [01:30:19]:
Is the Question, guys, let's be very clear. There's definitely, like.
Eldar [01:30:23]:
And obviously he's going to bring a lot of real reasons as to why you're doing this. Yo, you're gonna finish. You're so good about yourself, finally. I know sometimes I'm having too much fun.
Joe [01:30:38]:
No, no. You're blending the pot with a couple things. Number one is there's definitely levels to, like, you could be. I mean, the Russian soldiers that just got.
Denis [01:30:44]:
Wait, how's the discipline about Dennis not participating in the podcast?
Joe [01:30:48]:
The Russian soldiers that just got mobilized, and now discipline, Just going blindly. Yeah, that's.
Eldar [01:30:53]:
What do you mean? Where's the discipline in that?
Joe [01:30:55]:
Well, to follow orders, like, okay, I'm just not disciplined.
Denis [01:30:59]:
That's.
Eldar [01:30:59]:
That's. That's not discipline.
Joe [01:31:00]:
Okay, I'm.
Eldar [01:31:01]:
I'm using the word depression because that's conforming.
Joe [01:31:04]:
I'm using the word discipline in the way that you were just using in a second. Go with the school, then. That's one part. The other part is I never said anything about the school. Like, of course there's levels to it.
Toliy [01:31:12]:
Where.
Joe [01:31:12]:
Yeah, you do get to know yourself.
Eldar [01:31:14]:
Where.
Joe [01:31:14]:
Even through that. Where it's like, yo, like, if I'm doing this and I'm applying discipline, but, like, I. Like, there's. There's really no reason for me to be doing it. Or, like, I don't even know why I'm doing it. Who am I doing it for? Like, those things will come through discipline either way. Where it's like, yo, like, yeah, but.
Eldar [01:31:28]:
You could be under the wrong impression. You know, like the gym thing.
Joe [01:31:31]:
If she knows.
Eldar [01:31:32]:
Like, yo, she knows better.
Joe [01:31:33]:
I'm gonna be happy. I've experienced that already, let's say.
Eldar [01:31:36]:
I don't know. Okay. Yeah, like, she never got a degree.
Denis [01:31:39]:
Right.
Eldar [01:31:39]:
She never got a bachelor's degree. Right. She never should never use the bachelor's degree to get somewhere else. Right? So, like, what? She could be completely under the wrong impression. The gym, maybe. It's a different.
Joe [01:31:48]:
That's what I'm saying.
Eldar [01:31:49]:
She finishes the school, doesn't get a job. Doesn't make her feel good any better. Here she is, though, now, drowning in debt and wasted all that time.
Joe [01:31:58]:
Yeah.
Eldar [01:32:01]:
In the pandemic, I spent almost $10,000 just taking a few classes. Like, what did that. What did that do for me? Yeah, absolutely nothing. Zero. If anything, I. I'm $10,000 out. You know, that's how. That's how I see it.
Joe [01:32:16]:
Yes. You know, it's not like a. That's the. It's not a blinding. Like just use.
Eldar [01:32:20]:
Cool. Good. I'm glad. Yeah.
Eldar [01:32:22]:
No, I. I thought it through, you know.
Joe [01:32:25]:
Yeah.
Eldar [01:32:25]:
No, I'm saying.
Joe [01:32:26]:
But it's.
Eldar [01:32:26]:
It's.
Joe [01:32:28]:
Don't just categorize it as this.
Eldar [01:32:30]:
So you do listen to yourself once in a while.
Joe [01:32:33]:
What do you mean?
Eldar [01:32:38]:
Well, that's what you're talking about. I just extracted that from what you just said. Yeah.
Joe [01:32:42]:
In the last couple years.
Eldar [01:32:43]:
Yeah.
Joe [01:32:44]:
Versus the decade before. I'm seeing in the last couple years. Specifically this year to two years when I'm applying discipline. And there's a number of things that you know.
Eldar [01:32:53]:
Yeah.
Joe [01:32:54]:
If you wish I can. I can share more of them. I don't share a lot of them. I started applying discipline. I started getting more structured into the outside world.
Toliy [01:33:04]:
More.
Joe [01:33:04]:
Oh robotic or more oh like cadet this that. But like all of a sudden a piece took over. We're like this anxiety. I know exactly what he's talking about. This anxiety of demo immobilized. Like you just sitting and thinking and this. I can't have time. A million different things to me.
Joe [01:33:21]:
I don't even know. Maybe my was even much worse. We're like, yo, I mean, I couldn't get out of our bed, bro. Like, it's noon. I'm over there.
Eldar [01:33:28]:
Yeah.
Joe [01:33:28]:
Like, it's like. It's embarrassing.
Eldar [01:33:30]:
I know the story you've been told me.
Joe [01:33:31]:
This is years struggling with it.
Eldar [01:33:34]:
Yeah.
Joe [01:33:35]:
I started somehow along the way applying in different. I call it like consumable discipline. Where it's discipline enough where like I'm not overwhelming myself and becoming like. But just enough where it's. I'm taking the next steps forward. All of a sudden the life kind of starts evening out, like falling into this place. I had to make 90 calls, but I got two meetings out of it.
Toliy [01:33:56]:
Right.
Joe [01:33:56]:
Like if I didn't make the 90 calls, like, yeah. I could have sat there and be like, damn, I really hope I make some sales. So like otherwise they fire me, you know. But like, no, bro, like you gotta do the thing and you gotta go to call after call after call. But there's a goal in mind. Right? Like there's an applied discipline.
Denis [01:34:12]:
Yeah.
Joe [01:34:12]:
I did it enough for the day. I accomplished thankfully some things. Some things.
Eldar [01:34:17]:
Yeah.
Joe [01:34:18]:
You know, and so my point is like, I forgot what my. Oh, my point was in my life. I've experienced what it's like to have no discipline and only sitting around thinking and trying to not.
Eldar [01:34:31]:
What's the.
Joe [01:34:31]:
What do I really want to. And just like non stop endless And I. And I found myself in some ways, like I tried to focus on. Somehow I still ended up in some backwards back alley roads. I spent a lot of time trying to like, find the truth and the meaning of life and this and that, which is all important thing. Somehow I ended up as far as palace in India along that road.
Eldar [01:34:51]:
Yeah.
Joe [01:34:51]:
But like, I spent a lot of time digging through all. Even all those things to not just like be a robot and this, but like, I saw that in life there's still so many things that we have to do that like, bro, like, you're not just gonna. Like, you gotta find a way to do them. Because there is a delayed kind of like you plant the tree, you don't just automatically get the fruit. It needs the time to grow, but you gotta plant it and water it and water it and water it. And then like, it's. That's just.
Denis [01:35:20]:
I just feel like that's such a mundane thing, like watering the tree, right?
Joe [01:35:23]:
The universe. Well, yeah, it is a Monday. But then you find. You can find the beauty in it. That's what I was saying earlier. It's like, so it's like. It's a. It all comes together, but like, yeah, my man.
Joe [01:35:32]:
The work is needed and it's not.
Denis [01:35:34]:
Just like, yeah, discipline is dead, bro. Yo. Damn, I'm tired of it.
Eldar [01:35:38]:
Yo, he said it again.
Denis [01:35:41]:
Yeah, I'm sick of discipline.
Eldar [01:35:44]:
More and more we talk about giving.
Denis [01:35:46]:
Yo, discipline is like the anti love, bro.
Eldar [01:35:49]:
Oh, my God.
Denis [01:35:50]:
Yo, discipline is only needed when there's no. When love is abandoned.
Eldar [01:35:55]:
Discipline is anti love, yo.
Joe [01:35:57]:
Yeah. Yeah.
Eldar [01:35:59]:
Holy shit, Mike, I'm coining you a lot here, bro. You're bad, bro.
Denis [01:36:03]:
Yeah, because I'm listening to it and all I hear is just a miserable fucking things.
Joe [01:36:08]:
Sorry. All right.
Denis [01:36:11]:
You know, I don't see a person who's getting joy from life, just from the life and doing things that are part of that life. Yeah, I hear just a person who's doing things they have to do, I think that's fucking miserable. I mean, that's. That's tough.
Joe [01:36:25]:
You hear it. You hear it in a. Your own way.
Denis [01:36:29]:
I'm hearing it the way, like it's being presented.
Joe [01:36:31]:
I lived my life just happy. I was miserable. I had so much anxiety. I had so much just.
Denis [01:36:38]:
Yeah, no, I get what you're saying. I just.
Joe [01:36:41]:
I just have that as like, as I would say a lot as much anymore. Yeah, it was through applying certain structures and this was.
Denis [01:36:49]:
I get what you're saying, but I still believe that if you took the time to get to know yourself and figure out what you actually love. I think it would have been a much better outcome. You would have success and whatever you're doing, and you would enjoy whatever you're doing, not for the end goal only, but for the. That you actually will be enjoying those plans. Watering the mundane thing was sarcastic.
Eldar [01:37:12]:
No.
Denis [01:37:13]:
When you love what you're doing, which is planting, you never come and say, like, I got a water this tree. I got a water these fucking bushes.
Eldar [01:37:20]:
Yeah.
Denis [01:37:21]:
No, you cannot call that discipline. If you call discipline, it's like fucking. It's a violation to me. It's a violation.
Joe [01:37:28]:
Yeah. Okay.
Denis [01:37:29]:
You know, that's just me, though. Bomb fucking. You slacker, you guys.
Joe [01:37:32]:
Yeah, I am a slacker, you guys. It's the two different worlds. So for you, discipline is looked at as this ick thing. I get it. I get. Because I used to be in that camp, too. I used to.
Eldar [01:37:40]:
Yeah, maybe. Yeah.
Denis [01:37:42]:
No, but I'm saying that discipline is not needed when something. When something exists. What you love. When you love something for itself, not for what the. With the byproduct of is or the goal.
Joe [01:37:54]:
Yeah, listen, it's kind of like this, right? Like you mentioned. Nobody here is a byproduct of it yet. But, like.
Denis [01:38:00]:
No, we can.
Joe [01:38:01]:
We can look through enough people in history that there's byproducts of discipline that have certain things. There's an outcome to those things. Right.
Denis [01:38:09]:
We would have to. We would be. I think it would be a hard call because we would have to get to know those personal. Those people.
Joe [01:38:14]:
Yeah.
Denis [01:38:14]:
You talk about in the personal level.
Joe [01:38:17]:
Yeah. So go through different levels. What I'm saying here. We don't talk about business. We could talk about.
Denis [01:38:22]:
Sure.
Joe [01:38:22]:
Someone who has been studying at a Buddhist temple for the last ten years. Silent meditation.
Eldar [01:38:27]:
Sure.
Joe [01:38:28]:
That's a discipline. Right? Like.
Denis [01:38:30]:
No, that's a love.
Joe [01:38:32]:
Okay. Yeah. Did they grow to love it? Potentially, maybe.
Denis [01:38:36]:
If you're gonna embark on a journey that you don't love in the beginning, you already took the wrong step in the wrong direction.
Joe [01:38:42]:
That person may have. Really?
Denis [01:38:43]:
Yeah. You better teach. Oh, yeah.
Joe [01:38:47]:
The love is the life. Right. And. But.
Toliy [01:38:50]:
But I'm trying to catch a ground object, and I catch a ball of hair.
Eldar [01:38:56]:
Sorry.
Joe [01:38:57]:
To renounce your whole life to go into a Buddhist temple for 10 years.
Eldar [01:39:01]:
His anxiety.
Joe [01:39:04]:
There's an outcome that they love. I don't know if they. They're gonna love to do all that.
Denis [01:39:11]:
We would have to, you know, give an example. We would have to have A thing where you've been on both sides of the fence for that specific thing. I mean, I think I've been on both sides of the fence with the business that I'm in. I like this side more. Mike had a Lambo.
Eldar [01:39:34]:
What a sick T shirt.
Denis [01:39:36]:
You know what I'm saying? I've been on the side where it was disciplined, Gary, Camp grind, Work hard, be successful. Discipline for sure, bro. Like, I was working crazy hours trying to get to, like, this millionaire status, you know, have the nice everything. But.
Joe [01:39:52]:
Yeah, but you. Discipline can be used in whichever way you want you. And that was proved to be unhealthy for you.
Eldar [01:40:01]:
Right.
Joe [01:40:01]:
Like, it's not. It's not like, I just, like.
Denis [01:40:03]:
Yeah.
Joe [01:40:03]:
Blinding thing where it's like, you know what? You can.
Denis [01:40:06]:
No, but I'm saying, the place I am now, I like discipline, but I'm. I'm still doing good. I mean, as a person, I'm very happy.
Eldar [01:40:14]:
Yeah. I mean, listen, if you can. If you can. Right. If you had the privilege. I had the privilege to switch.
Denis [01:40:22]:
Yeah. Well, Covid came by and not everybody. That helped.
Eldar [01:40:26]:
Yeah, that helped too. Right.
Denis [01:40:27]:
It had. Not everybody gave a chance to slow down, to think about things.
Eldar [01:40:30]:
Correct.
Denis [01:40:30]:
And observe life and everything.
Eldar [01:40:32]:
Correct. Yeah, you had a chance to do that. Right.
Eldar [01:40:34]:
Think about how many people made changes just because of that.
Eldar [01:40:37]:
Yeah. No, if. Yeah. I don't know. I would have to compare the person who doesn't get, like you said, of who he was before, who doesn't get anything done. Right. And was a complete, like, you know, bad to himself, not happy, wasn't engaging in things that he actually loved. Right.
Eldar [01:40:50]:
And nothing got done versus a person who is now disciplined. What he's saying, not generally happy with the journeys, but with. Is happy with the outcomes, and he's getting those outcomes that he actually wants. Probably won't. You probably say that this side is better. You know what I'm saying? Like, it's an upgrade.
Denis [01:41:06]:
Yeah.
Eldar [01:41:07]:
You know, for him and for the.
Joe [01:41:08]:
I don't think you had a problem with the discipline in your example.
Denis [01:41:10]:
No, I didn't.
Joe [01:41:11]:
The goal that you tried to use did this before.
Denis [01:41:14]:
Yeah.
Joe [01:41:14]:
I mean, like, this could be used for good or bad. Just like, pretty much anything.
Denis [01:41:17]:
You know what I'm saying?
Joe [01:41:18]:
Like, we can't blame the discipline because, you know, to buy Lambos with the money instead of, I don't know, save for a rainy day. I don't. You know what I'm saying? Like, those are, you know.
Denis [01:41:27]:
Yeah.
Joe [01:41:27]:
So I don't know. I Don't know if you know.
Denis [01:41:29]:
No, what I'm saying that before, I use discipline to be, you know, successful, like you say, you know, to reach the goal. Now I don't use discipline. I'm not disciplined.
Eldar [01:41:40]:
I don't.
Denis [01:41:40]:
I mean, I don't feel like I'm disciplined.
Eldar [01:41:42]:
The paradox I think of it though is you become disciplined on the things you want to be disciplined in.
Toliy [01:41:51]:
Yeah.
Eldar [01:41:51]:
I think that is the ultimate goal. Right?
Denis [01:41:53]:
Yeah.
Eldar [01:41:54]:
Right.
Denis [01:41:54]:
But then you don't call it discipline.
Eldar [01:41:56]:
But then you don't call. Yes. The paradox of. Is that. Is it really discipline?
Toliy [01:41:59]:
Yeah, I think that.
Eldar [01:41:59]:
Or is it. Or is it a natural, like. Yeah, like to come and work out every Saturday morning on basketball or play basketball. It just is. He's just flowing.
Denis [01:42:09]:
Yeah. You know what I mean?
Eldar [01:42:10]:
Nobody has to tell him. Nobody has to remind him. He doesn't have to set an alarm. He doesn't do any of that. Yeah, he just doesn't.
Toliy [01:42:16]:
Yeah. Discipline needs to get summoned when there's love and passion lacking in those things.
Joe [01:42:25]:
So use a sports example.
Denis [01:42:27]:
Kobe.
Joe [01:42:28]:
Kobe didn't like. Didn't love basketball. She talks a lot about this.
Eldar [01:42:33]:
No, I think he didn't like losing.
Denis [01:42:37]:
Yeah. A lot of things seem within adi.
Joe [01:42:42]:
Yeah, so.
Denis [01:42:42]:
So, yeah, I don't. I don't think he. It's.
Toliy [01:42:46]:
It's also. It's hard to know like. Like, it's hard to have a conversation about this without like getting to know the person on like just like not just like looking at them as like.
Denis [01:42:55]:
An icon and then to have the person be honest with you as well.
Toliy [01:42:59]:
Yeah.
Denis [01:42:59]:
You know, cuz as if they know about themselves enough to make that statement.
Toliy [01:43:03]:
Yeah. Like, I think that would be a series of questions that you probably would have to go back and forth to that individual and then kind of see what. What that person loved or didn't love.
Joe [01:43:12]:
For Kobe. I know, like, first of all, I know he cheated on his wife like 50 times.
Eldar [01:43:16]:
What an indicator.
Joe [01:43:20]:
Well, no, I'm saying like that if you. If you're going the personal route and all this and trying to get to know the person.
Toliy [01:43:26]:
No, no, I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about like, you're saying, wait, Kobe didn't love basketball. Like, I never had a conversation with him to, to find out, like to like ask him questions about. Yeah, but he's like, not even personal ones to explain it about basketball. Right?
Denis [01:43:45]:
He loves basketball. No, I don't. I'm not saying that. But he might be an impression that he loves basketball. But he actually hates losing or he likes something else.
Toliy [01:43:55]:
No, I think that in this. In this example, D is bringing up someone that did something successfully and grinded the fuck out of it. Therefore, he's saying that he loved it, which I disagree with. Like that.
Eldar [01:44:10]:
No, put words in his mouth.
Toliy [01:44:11]:
Why'd you bring up.
Joe [01:44:13]:
Because he talks about this one all the time. You don't have to know.
Toliy [01:44:16]:
No, but you asked me a question. You asked me a question. So Kobe doesn't love basketball, right?
Joe [01:44:21]:
We. He says.
Eldar [01:44:23]:
He says it.
Joe [01:44:23]:
He tells us this many times. We can assume it based on how he says it and what he talks about. How he talks about the leather, the smell of the ball, the smell of the Everything. Like he loves the game. You know what I'm talking about? You watch those same things.
Denis [01:44:36]:
Wow.
Joe [01:44:37]:
Back in your hoop dreams days, right?
Toliy [01:44:39]:
No, no. I mean, I haven't watched those kind of interviews.
Joe [01:44:43]:
Why did he talk. I mean, he talks about it, like, profoundly like this. He's like the smell of the leather in every morning, the squeaking of the heart. I mean, he just go. It was. He lights up talking about, you know, through his words, that he says, I love basketball and through his actions.
Eldar [01:44:59]:
Yeah, but those things can be enjoyed without having the discipline for basketball.
Joe [01:45:02]:
But hold on. That's what I'm saying.
Eldar [01:45:03]:
Well, now the discipline, I think, comes in and so losing and winning.
Joe [01:45:06]:
He loves basketball, but he talked about how he really was bad. Grade 7, 8, 9. The kids were all better than him. His knees were hurting. He was still small. He had to put in more. He's like, yo, I gotta catch up to everybody in the summers. I want to be great at this game.
Joe [01:45:22]:
I don't know what's gonna happen, but I want to be great at this game. I love this game. This is where I want to commit to my life. That's it. And so he kept pushing and pushing and he. I mean, I don't have to sell you on this. He talks about it a million times about that the discipline got him in that gym to do the two days to work harder than.
Toliy [01:45:36]:
Yeah, well, it sounds like he didn't have a better way than of accomplishing.
Joe [01:45:40]:
But what is the better way then? Like.
Toliy [01:45:42]:
Well, the better way is to do things that you enjoy.
Joe [01:45:46]:
Here's an example of an individual that said he enjoyed it, but still.
Toliy [01:45:49]:
Well, then you can't tell me what. Well, then he didn't. Well, then he didn't enjoy it.
Denis [01:45:55]:
No.
Joe [01:45:55]:
I mean, yeah, based on your guys's theory, I guess not. But based on Other theories? Not exactly.
Eldar [01:46:01]:
Well, no, no, no. I think that you can enjoy the smell of the leather and the balancing of the ball.
Toliy [01:46:05]:
Yeah.
Eldar [01:46:05]:
On the court, stuff like that. And squeaking us over the floors. But I don't see how discipline goes into having the ability to enjoy that. Now what? I think that if you have attachment to winning and minimize the amount of times you're losing. Right. Being a certain type of way.
Joe [01:46:21]:
But that's part of that.
Denis [01:46:24]:
No basketball exists outside of winning and losing. The love of basketball.
Eldar [01:46:28]:
Yes, it exists.
Joe [01:46:29]:
Also the game. I mean, for you, I know when you get out of the court, you don't. For most people, like these kinds of individuals, they care about what.
Eldar [01:46:37]:
No, it is clear. It is clear, though. Right. But it's clear that, again, there has to be something that he did not enjoy.
Joe [01:46:44]:
Yeah.
Eldar [01:46:45]:
About the part of basketball. Right.
Joe [01:46:47]:
Losing. Yeah.
Eldar [01:46:48]:
Which is part of basketball. Right. It's like you're losing. So in order not to enjoy losing. Right. You try to minimize the amount of times you lose. In order to do that, you should do what? Do more.
Joe [01:47:00]:
Yeah.
Eldar [01:47:00]:
Okay. The discipline. I mean, again, we come into the same example.
Joe [01:47:05]:
Yeah. So you're saying he didn't love basketball.
Eldar [01:47:07]:
No, no, he loved basketball. But there's a part of basketball that he didn't like. Okay. Which required him then to do discipline. Yeah. Again, we showed. I think we displayed yet again another example of that. When the person.
Eldar [01:47:21]:
Like he said, when you don't like something or you don't like something, you gotta employ discipline. And in this case, I think Kobe probably successfully employ discipline in order to minimize the amount of times he lost. That's why he was great.
Denis [01:47:35]:
Yeah.
Eldar [01:47:36]:
Okay. I said. But this is an example to prove our point. He did not enjoy something. Therefore, he said, I need discipline.
Joe [01:47:45]:
Well, he enjoyed it.
Eldar [01:47:46]:
He just do not listen. He did not enjoy losing 10 branches to it.
Joe [01:47:51]:
He enjoyed maybe eight. But the two he didn't enjoy, he.
Eldar [01:47:54]:
Had applied discipline to it compromised for.
Joe [01:47:56]:
Them by applying the D word to enjoy the overall. Still.
Eldar [01:47:59]:
Okay.
Joe [01:48:00]:
And that's just the summary of life. I don't know what it.
Eldar [01:48:03]:
No, but that proves the point.
Joe [01:48:06]:
You saying it proves your point. It still kind of proves mine, in my opinion. My only point here is like, you're not just, you know, even in this ultimate scenario, one of the greats in his line of work still had to apply that, even though he loved this.
Eldar [01:48:21]:
Exactly. Because he was not okay with a particular aspect. He was not okay with something.
Joe [01:48:24]:
Yeah.
Eldar [01:48:25]:
He was not happy with that aspect.
Joe [01:48:26]:
Of basketball or he Just, you know, kind of assumed that, like. Okay, not assume. What's the word Accepted that this part of basketball exists and if I. If I want to continue.
Denis [01:48:38]:
No, but what is basketball apply? What is basketball?
Eldar [01:48:42]:
That's what I'm saying.
Denis [01:48:43]:
What is basketball? Dennis?
Joe [01:48:45]:
It's his love.
Denis [01:48:45]:
No, no, but what is actually basketball game? It's a game. What is it? What does the game entail?
Joe [01:48:51]:
Score, winning, losing, shooting, dribbling.
Denis [01:48:54]:
So if I'm playing basketball, shooting around with my friends, that's not basketball?
Joe [01:48:58]:
Sure, it's basketball.
Denis [01:48:59]:
Okay, so how can you. Why he couldn't just love basketball just for the game, without the score, without, you know, needing to beat other people.
Joe [01:49:07]:
Maybe just as much?
Denis [01:49:09]:
Okay, so then. So then now it's not basketball. He loves winning.
Joe [01:49:14]:
Sure.
Eldar [01:49:14]:
Both.
Joe [01:49:15]:
Yeah.
Denis [01:49:16]:
Well, if you wanted to play basketball, he could have played basketball. If you wanted to win at basketball, that's a different thing now.
Joe [01:49:21]:
No, well, yeah, he's now combining maybe his two loves, like, I really want to. I love the feeling of winning and I love basketball. I'm gonna marry the two. In order to do that, you gotta do some extra things.
Denis [01:49:32]:
But do you require. Is there a discipline that's required to play basketball?
Joe [01:49:36]:
Just pick a bowl.
Denis [01:49:37]:
No, no.
Joe [01:49:38]:
I mean.
Denis [01:49:39]:
So then we can't call him loving basketball for the purity of what, basketball?
Eldar [01:49:43]:
No, absolutely not. Absolutely not.
Denis [01:49:46]:
Can we call. What was it. Can we call him loving basketball for the purity of basketball?
Eldar [01:49:53]:
No, we cannot.
Denis [01:49:57]:
I mean, if basketball is a basketball.
Eldar [01:50:00]:
Like you just said, if basketball exists outside of winning and losing. Right, Outside of winning and losing competition. Right.
Denis [01:50:06]:
Well, does he agree to that?
Eldar [01:50:08]:
Well, he just did.
Denis [01:50:08]:
He did. Okay. He did agree that.
Eldar [01:50:10]:
All right. Okay, then. Yeah. Correct in the form that he wanted to express himself. He needed winning and losing to be one of those, and he needed to be on the NBA platform.
Denis [01:50:19]:
Yes.
Eldar [01:50:19]:
In order for that to be. Yeah. And he didn't want anything less than that. So therefore, you needed to subject himself to a level of suffering through discipline.
Denis [01:50:27]:
Right, yeah.
Eldar [01:50:28]:
Grinding, grinding, grinding. Which he probably didn't enjoy. Right. In order to get there. Just like the fighters say in ufc, Right? They hate the camp. They love fighting.
Denis [01:50:37]:
They love fighting.
Eldar [01:50:38]:
Yeah. They just want the camp to be over. Yeah, Right. That's the difficult part. The training.
Denis [01:50:42]:
Yeah, the training.
Eldar [01:50:43]:
Right. They actually like fighting. Yeah. I don't like the training. Yeah.
Joe [01:50:45]:
Should they not be fighting?
Denis [01:50:47]:
They should be only fighting.
Eldar [01:50:48]:
Yeah, they should be only fighting youg know what I'm saying?
Denis [01:50:51]:
But if you want to. If you also want to fight and Win.
Eldar [01:50:53]:
Yes.
Denis [01:50:54]:
And become famous and successful.
Eldar [01:50:55]:
Correct.
Denis [01:50:56]:
You have to do discipline.
Eldar [01:50:57]:
Yes.
Denis [01:50:57]:
But in order to fight what's required in order to play basketball required.
Joe [01:51:00]:
Fucking fight a ball without trying to like. Like who's going to go beat their face? And just for the. You know what I mean? Like, or for lack of. Okay.
Eldar [01:51:08]:
Basketball.
Denis [01:51:08]:
You would have to tell me that you never went to the basketball court just because you wanted to go play ball.
Eldar [01:51:12]:
Sure.
Joe [01:51:12]:
But I don't have the. The passion or love that he did.
Eldar [01:51:16]:
Sure.
Denis [01:51:16]:
You don't have it in that sphere, but you may have.
Toliy [01:51:18]:
It's like you can separate probably who likes what. When you remove all the lights and the fame and the, and the money and, and everything that like comes with the two. Right. Like, I think like that could also help in like seeing what you actually like, like. And like.
Denis [01:51:40]:
Yeah, it's not. There's nothing required to play basketball outside of just a pole and a hoop.
Joe [01:51:45]:
I agree.
Eldar [01:51:46]:
You just said that.
Toliy [01:51:46]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Denis [01:51:48]:
I probably love that you can do.
Toliy [01:51:50]:
Like, like Jordan, Kobe and stuff like that. Like, they're probably much more.
Eldar [01:51:55]:
I think Jordan talks about. He hated losing.
Toliy [01:51:58]:
Yeah, I think that was an actual thing. I think that winning Trump's basketball.
Eldar [01:52:01]:
Correct. Those two people. Very good.
Denis [01:52:04]:
Yeah, yeah.
Toliy [01:52:08]:
Like they're called winning trumps it.
Joe [01:52:10]:
But it's definitely like, it's another.
Denis [01:52:13]:
It's more important. It weighs more than basketball itself.
Toliy [01:52:16]:
It might have started with basketball.
Denis [01:52:18]:
Yeah. For this.
Eldar [01:52:22]:
Like. Yeah, just like you said. I remember the other player Embiid, you said. Yeah, right. He didn't care about that. So he came not in shape, eating burgers and stuff like that. He didn't really care like that. Right.
Toliy [01:52:32]:
Yeah, he was a decent player. Pretty good. Right. But he wasn't getting anywhere. And there was always videos, like pre game stuff like that. Like reports always ask him. He would be laying on the court and like the trainers are stretching him out, like, you know how like I do. And he's eating McDonald's Burger King.
Denis [01:52:50]:
Yeah.
Toliy [01:52:51]:
He had this like terrible diet and he had this, you know, injury history and like, you know, just not being in shape, getting tired, playing basketball of a person who. And then he wanted to take. Yeah. Then he wanted to take it to the next level and he stopped doing all that. He has like a personal chef everything. And like he started eating better. He got way more like lean, stronger. He became a next player.
Toliy [01:53:14]:
Like a next level player to win.
Joe [01:53:16]:
Yeah. So, okay, so coming back to your flip phone thing. So in this version, what's next? Like what's the, what's the. Like, what are you, what are you, what are you trying to create with that?
Toliy [01:53:28]:
So, so part of my problem, I guess, about having no time is that like, I will go like in my usual days, I guess. Right. And I will do like anywhere from like three to like seven things at one time, plus think about, I don't know, a bunch of things at those same times. So the way that my life goes is that like, I don't know, like I say, okay, I'm gonna go watch the Rangers game, right? Oh, I'm watching the Rangers game. I'm also like, have a podcast playing and then I also have like Twitch on my iPad. Right. And then I'm like, also checking my phone to see scores of other games. And then I'm also like looking at group chat.
Toliy [01:54:08]:
And then I'm also like replying to some. Something like that, right? No, no, I mean, if I need to go, I have it on my iPad, but. But like I'm doing like a million things at once. And what happens is that when I, when that ends, I feel like I didn't do anything. So like, I didn't watch tv, didn't look at Twitch, I didn't listen to that podcast. I have no idea what, what happened with it. Right. Yeah.
Toliy [01:54:39]:
I'm not even sure what's going on because, like, I'm just trying to do all these different things at the same time.
Denis [01:54:44]:
Yeah.
Toliy [01:54:45]:
And like, what that solely does is that like, it makes my attention span like an absolute, like not non existent. So, like, I have no attention span.
Joe [01:54:55]:
Yeah.
Toliy [01:54:55]:
So all I do is I crave like, I need all these different like, lights and like, attentions and like, and like this and that. And like it almost feels up like I'm going like a million miles an hour, but just like running in place like your brother said, he exhausts himself.
Eldar [01:55:10]:
Yeah.
Toliy [01:55:10]:
Right. So, yeah, I feel like I get nothing done, but I'm getting everything done same time. Like that, that. That's why, like, I might be doing 10 things at one time but not doing anything that comes out of it. And I feel like over time that like, fries me. And like, yeah, I don't have the ability, ability to use my brain. And I always just feel tired and I always just feel like, no, no, no energy and like, yeah, like, oh.
Eldar [01:55:37]:
That kind of stuff.
Toliy [01:55:39]:
So like, I'm hoping to be able to like.
Eldar [01:55:42]:
And he exhausts. He also exhausted the thing that we talked about in the beginning of the topic. Right. He also. One of the, one of the People that always went and got excited about stuff and said. Announced it and said it to the public. You know, he exhausts all that. That's it.
Eldar [01:55:53]:
Like, there's no more talking. There's nothing's being done.
Joe [01:55:56]:
That part, by the way, I wanted to continue, but that part, by the way, I just feel. And I think you agree on this, where that's just the element of.
Eldar [01:56:04]:
When.
Joe [01:56:05]:
You speak it out, it's like, you got to live it. You got to feel the endorphins of, like, it happened already.
Eldar [01:56:12]:
Yeah.
Joe [01:56:12]:
And so. And then it's like. So you. It's like an addiction because you get to do it without actually doing it.
Eldar [01:56:16]:
Right.
Joe [01:56:17]:
So that part is. Yeah. So it's okay.
Eldar [01:56:19]:
So. So he exhausted that part.
Joe [01:56:20]:
Yeah.
Eldar [01:56:21]:
And now he's. Now he. And then he's like, wait a second, But I have goals. I want to do stuff, but I can never get to them. And now he has. He found a problem, and then he has a perpetual cycle of shame, guilt, unworthiness. He doesn't feel like he did anything. Right.
Eldar [01:56:34]:
So now he's. He's jumping into a depression now. Right. An ongoing thing where it's like, I'm a piece of shit. My life sucks. I didn't get anything accomplished, and I want nobody.
Toliy [01:56:44]:
And else don't. Don't have the ability to deal with my anxieties and deal with those kinds of things and, like, investigate them, learn them, like, see what's happening.
Eldar [01:56:53]:
Like, he can't even appreciate the things that he does accomplish.
Joe [01:56:56]:
Saying that, by the way, is fascinating to me that you would say that. But, like, you know, you do. You do enjoy investigating and examining.
Toliy [01:57:07]:
No, I do it when I can, but I don't feel like.
Eldar [01:57:14]:
Yeah, well, it's becoming. No, no, no. I think it's becoming more and more uncomfortable for him to examine things, do things, and then nothing comes out of it. That's also a thing.
Joe [01:57:23]:
Well, yeah, I agree.
Eldar [01:57:24]:
You know what I mean? That's the whole point of it as well, is the more you talk about certain stuff, you're going to reach a threshold. I think Catherine's slowly opening up that can of worms. Slowly. Sooner or later, she's not gonna be able to talk. Talk is going to be cheap. She's not gonna be able to talk anymore.
Joe [01:57:36]:
Yeah.
Eldar [01:57:36]:
You could complain. Only for so long, up until you yourself start hearing yourself, and you're like, I don't like myself. Then you keep your mouth shut.
Joe [01:57:44]:
So this idea.
Eldar [01:57:45]:
And then you start becoming about the business.
Joe [01:57:47]:
Mm. So this idea with the flip phone came about and like, so it's.
Eldar [01:57:51]:
He has no time. Right.
Joe [01:57:53]:
So this is going to stop you from doing certain of those.
Eldar [01:57:56]:
This is gonna free some time up so he can maybe, maybe we're testing this theory out. This is also a theory again, right. To see whether or not he's going to be able to do things that he has on his list.
Joe [01:58:08]:
Which one of them is like wash the dishes.
Eldar [01:58:12]:
Oh, what's his name? Rearrange the stuff in his kitchen. I don't know. Throw out the boxes in his backyard. Weed. The weed. His trees that he planted. You know what I mean? Like all those things that he has. He has a running list.
Joe [01:58:25]:
I think that's great. Yeah.
Eldar [01:58:26]:
You know what I mean? Well, you're sitting there and now, right. Stephen A. Smith. A. Smith is no longer taking your attention, buying, you know, you.
Joe [01:58:35]:
Yeah.
Eldar [01:58:36]:
Because he gave you some new sports statistic or some other nonsense that's going on. You don't have to fill your mind about that. And then other things and other things.
Toliy [01:58:44]:
I already knew on my smartphone, every sound of that phone made. What kind of information am I about to get? Yeah, okay. This sound is Bleacher report. This is SportsCenter. This is Signal.
Eldar [01:58:54]:
That's great.
Toliy [01:58:55]:
This is message. Right. I knew instantly what that sound is about to get. I knew when someone is live on Twitch. I knew when, when.
Joe [01:59:11]:
Everything. That's crazy. When I was. Was more active in the chat and stuff and I post and I would be waiting for your guys reaction, you know, because I showed you guys how you could see if someone read it. He was the first one. Always read instantly five seconds. Boom, team. Read it.
Joe [01:59:26]:
Yeah, he's fast. He had the notification.
Denis [01:59:28]:
But he lurks though. He doesn't respond though.
Eldar [01:59:29]:
He just.
Toliy [01:59:33]:
In general, the way I felt feel is that like. Yeah, I just feel like. Yeah, it's. Yeah, it's. It's this weird paradox again of like, I'm not doing shit. Like, I'm not doing shit is how I feel, but I am doing mad shit.
Eldar [01:59:47]:
Yeah. Yeah.
Toliy [01:59:48]:
And like the thing is, I like when you feel that you're not doing anything. Right. And you aren't like chipping away at the things that you want to do. And like I don't have that, like that like, ability. Right, Right. Where it's like, oh, okay, like, like, like I want to do this and I'm like, okay, let's just like get up and do it. Right. Like I don't have that ability to just be like, like anything that like my Mind wants to do.
Toliy [02:00:14]:
I don't have the ability to physically, like, follow through with those things.
Eldar [02:00:18]:
So you're constantly bullshitting yourself.
Toliy [02:00:20]:
Yeah.
Eldar [02:00:21]:
And then you bullshit others.
Toliy [02:00:22]:
Yeah, and then I experience pain, and then like, I spend more time going back and forth on these things and do. And like all that kind of stuff. Then like, if I actually had the ability to just like, do what I wanted to do.
Joe [02:00:36]:
So what happens if not for the record, I think it's great because I think that.
Eldar [02:00:40]:
Thank you.
Joe [02:00:41]:
You know, not that you gave a fuck.
Eldar [02:00:44]:
No, I really didn't, but. No, no, but from coming from you, it means a lot.
Joe [02:00:48]:
Yeah. Don't lie.
Eldar [02:00:50]:
Just don't talk to the listeners.
Joe [02:00:52]:
Yeah, but when you say. When you say you're making fun of structure before about that one thing where you're like, yeah, that also falls apart. Can't this also fall apart?
Eldar [02:01:05]:
I did not give him. This is not structure. I know. I didn't give him structure. I said, yo, my man, you want to watch the hockey game? Watch the hockey game. You want to play video games? Watch. Play the video games. You want to check out those.
Eldar [02:01:14]:
Check out the social media. But he's. He himself called himself. He's missing exits when he's driving on the. When he's driving his car, he's missing exits where he's running red lights. He's running red lights.
Denis [02:01:24]:
He.
Eldar [02:01:24]:
We saw him run two red lights within the span of a week.
Eldar [02:01:28]:
Yeah, we actually caught him.
Eldar [02:01:30]:
He is fried. You understand?
Joe [02:01:33]:
It's because of the phone.
Eldar [02:01:35]:
Well, it's because of. He uses the phone to dampen his anxiety, which is also a non existent thing. Now he's going to be forced to look within to see or confront.
Joe [02:01:46]:
Forced is like it. Don't use the word force because that's from the D camp and that and the discipline camp. Don't use forced. It's not forcing himself.
Eldar [02:01:54]:
Obliged.
Joe [02:01:55]:
He really loves.
Toliy [02:01:55]:
I'm gonna be given the opportunity.
Joe [02:01:57]:
He fell in love with a flip phone.
Denis [02:02:00]:
I'm in love with a stripper.
Toliy [02:02:09]:
No, I think I'm gonna have. He has no opportunity.
Eldar [02:02:12]:
He'll have the opportunity.
Denis [02:02:13]:
He's definitely forced.
Eldar [02:02:14]:
Well, no, I mean, he forced himself. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. But it's not attached. It's like it's a byproduct. I'm not talking about. He's not forcing himself. He's not. He didn't force himself to say, like, you know what? Going forward, I'm doing this for this.
Eldar [02:02:28]:
There's no tie here. But it's it's gonna happen eventually on its own. Right. Where he's gonna be like, all right, cool. Let's sit down with this anxiety and see where it's at. He's gonna finally complete it and then move on. Move on to the next thing. And no longer is it going to be this lingering thing because something else is taking his attention, so he's somewhere else in two different places all the time.
Eldar [02:02:47]:
He's gonna be able to hopefully tackle one thing at a time and actually be able to have the thing that he's looking for.
Denis [02:02:53]:
Structure.
Eldar [02:02:54]:
Right. But this is gonna hopefully occur naturally.
Denis [02:02:57]:
Yes.
Eldar [02:02:58]:
Through a natural process of not having to force yourself to do this, but rather want to do this.
Joe [02:03:04]:
What I'm saying is the flip phone natural.
Eldar [02:03:07]:
Ask him.
Joe [02:03:09]:
Well, yeah, I'm asking. Yeah.
Eldar [02:03:11]:
Both of you. Yeah.
Joe [02:03:11]:
Yeah.
Toliy [02:03:12]:
I definitely don't feel like I'm forced.
Joe [02:03:13]:
Into doing this, but is it, like, it. Was it a natural move?
Toliy [02:03:19]:
It was a natural move.
Eldar [02:03:20]:
I would say it was inevitable. Yeah.
Toliy [02:03:22]:
Like, it. Like, is the act in general a natural act? No, but it's. It becomes a natural move once you understand, like, the things behind it.
Eldar [02:03:31]:
Mm.
Joe [02:03:34]:
Did you feel more empowered once you.
Eldar [02:03:36]:
Like, how long have you been. Like, the decision to remove the phone.
Toliy [02:03:38]:
Wasn'T just, like, a day?
Eldar [02:03:39]:
Yeah.
Joe [02:03:40]:
It's the first day.
Toliy [02:03:41]:
Yeah. Like, yeah, it's definitely a very interesting thing.
Denis [02:03:47]:
Like.
Toliy [02:03:47]:
Yeah.
Eldar [02:03:47]:
Yeah.
Joe [02:03:48]:
I would imagine it hard as fuck.
Toliy [02:03:50]:
Yeah. Like. Like. Like this night, for example, like, I was watching tv and, like, my phone's there, and I, like. There's, like, a commercial. I'm like, okay, I'm gonna go check bleacher report.
Eldar [02:03:59]:
I grabbed this. I'm like, okay.
Toliy [02:04:01]:
And I just put it back down. Yeah. Like, I saw the car today, so it's like, I still had my phone today.
Joe [02:04:11]:
Oh, shit. You gotta open the car manually.
Toliy [02:04:13]:
Yeah. Now I have to use. That's what I have.
Joe [02:04:16]:
What about paying for things?
Toliy [02:04:18]:
That's why I got my wallet.
Eldar [02:04:19]:
Wow.
Joe [02:04:19]:
You're going old school, huh?
Eldar [02:04:20]:
Yeah.
Toliy [02:04:21]:
Now there's probably a 75% chance of losing my wallet.
Eldar [02:04:26]:
Yeah. You can keep it. You could pay for you.
Joe [02:04:28]:
So what. What happens if, like, you. You fall off of it?
Eldar [02:04:32]:
Like, what do you mean?
Joe [02:04:34]:
Like, what if you, like. Yeah, f. This, you know? No such thing.
Eldar [02:04:40]:
Based on what? The scenario that played out, you missed, obviously, most of it. There's no such thing as phone off. I mean, like, really. I mean, this is, like. This is to con. To finally. To finally come to terms with who you actually are and accept it. I'm not sure if individual who at least thinks a little bit is.
Eldar [02:04:58]:
That's possible. Mm.
Denis [02:05:01]:
Can't put the stuff the. Back into the.
Eldar [02:05:04]:
Can't put the worms back in the can.
Denis [02:05:05]:
No.
Eldar [02:05:07]:
My gig is up. Like he trapped himself.
Denis [02:05:10]:
He would have to pull like. And pull like a disappearing act.
Eldar [02:05:13]:
Yeah. Yes. A Fortnite.
Denis [02:05:15]:
A fortnite.
Eldar [02:05:15]:
Correct.
Joe [02:05:17]:
Yeah.
Eldar [02:05:17]:
Yeah.
Joe [02:05:18]:
I think you underestimating the power of our mind to convince us even out of the good things though, is what I would say to that.
Eldar [02:05:25]:
Yeah. That's. That is to choose to. That is to choose to be sick, which is a choice. But that is the truth. Yeah. That is the choose to be sick. And that's.
Eldar [02:05:33]:
That's also his choice. Obviously. That's his right as a human. He can if he wants to. I'm not sure if the person who thinks right at least once a week we'll be able to go through that. Okay. That type of decision on it. Like on a normal way.
Eldar [02:05:47]:
If they do. I mean.
Joe [02:05:50]:
So the thesis here is to summarize. You'll have now enough time in theory. Right. Based on theory, to do the things that you've been holding off on. The things that you don't, God forbid, want to apply the D word on, but you just want to naturally do whatever else.
Eldar [02:06:07]:
Right. Like.
Joe [02:06:08]:
Right. You have the time for those.
Toliy [02:06:09]:
Well, I mean, like, I don't know.
Eldar [02:06:11]:
What'S time and energy?
Toliy [02:06:13]:
Like, I'm not sure what's going to actually happen. Like, I'm very. You have very new to.
Joe [02:06:20]:
Like I said, go the goals or.
Toliy [02:06:22]:
I had a lot of desires of things I want to do with my life.
Denis [02:06:27]:
Yeah.
Toliy [02:06:27]:
But the way it was going, I didn't feel like that I could do them. So I don't know how long this is gonna span. Is gonna span.
Joe [02:06:33]:
You're testing it.
Toliy [02:06:34]:
Years. This is gonna span. This is gonna be forever. Is this, you know, months or. Yeah, I'm not sure, bro.
Joe [02:06:41]:
That's respect for sure.
Eldar [02:06:42]:
That's.
Joe [02:06:43]:
I definitely surprising that you holding a brick.
Eldar [02:06:45]:
Yeah. I don't see how like a person who makes that type of decision comes out of it with the same form. You have to come out of it with this with a different form, right?
Denis [02:06:53]:
Mm. Yeah, I agree. No, I don't. I don't see how you go back to going to a smartphone again and using it the way he did before.
Eldar [02:07:01]:
Yeah, correct. With the same type of engagement. Impossible. If this choice was genuinely his choice.
Denis [02:07:08]:
Yes. Yes.
Eldar [02:07:10]:
Right. Now, if we forced him somehow put a guilt trip or put a Money number on it. Yo give you thousand dollars. That's a different thing. I did do this. Of course. But why'd you do it back then? I guess I needed to focus probably. But I realized that how detrimental was probably.
Joe [02:07:30]:
But why'd you come back?
Eldar [02:07:31]:
You remember? Cuz I'm good at it now. You are? Yeah.
Joe [02:07:34]:
You are?
Eldar [02:07:35]:
Yeah.
Joe [02:07:36]:
Why your wife looking at you like that?
Eldar [02:07:38]:
What do you mean?
Toliy [02:07:39]:
You, you're a testament to how good good he is at it.
Denis [02:07:43]:
Yeah.
Joe [02:07:44]:
What do you mean?
Toliy [02:07:45]:
He never want complain of for you when he was your assistant.
Joe [02:07:51]:
Well, yeah.
Eldar [02:07:52]:
He never remember or not he never answered his phone.
Joe [02:07:54]:
Yeah. You know that part for sure.
Eldar [02:07:57]:
Yeah. You know, you know what that means or no. When I go gardening and you guys call me and text me.
Toliy [02:08:02]:
I called Elder when I say I.
Eldar [02:08:04]:
Go days forgetting to put on my phone back on from silent.
Joe [02:08:08]:
Okay.
Toliy [02:08:08]:
Yeah, yeah, I called Elder and then he didn't answer and it was like after work and it was so like decently like nice outside. Didn't answer some like oh, the only way to see if like it's free or not just to pull up and he's in the backyard. He's like, yeah, I just don't have my phone.
Joe [02:08:23]:
Yeah.
Toliy [02:08:23]:
And you don't care.
Joe [02:08:25]:
Social media and still using it a lot.
Eldar [02:08:27]:
I'm on social media.
Joe [02:08:28]:
I'm asking.
Eldar [02:08:29]:
I mean I have social media. I have six friends on Facebook, I have one friend on Instagram. Yeah.
Joe [02:08:36]:
So you saying that from that experience you came out and you use it in healthy and.
Eldar [02:08:41]:
Yeah, I think like if he wants.
Toliy [02:08:43]:
To sit and watch YouTube for an hour, for two hours, I'm sure he'll do it.
Eldar [02:08:47]:
Yeah. And I do do it right.
Toliy [02:08:48]:
But like not, not, not in like a way where it's like all day consuming.
Denis [02:08:53]:
His totally was on.
Eldar [02:08:54]:
He said I get shit done. Right. I feel like no, I mean I think definitely can improve and stuff. Right. But I get stuff done in comparison to what this gentleman right here, he doesn't can get stuff done, can't get started. So he's constantly making me as an example. Yo, you get shit done and I don't get shit done. And I clearly have a different relationship with my phone versus his phone.
Eldar [02:09:12]:
Right. And the type of anxieties and all those other things to think about. Right. I have no problem right now. I'm going on a flip phone like this. I have no fear and no nothing I can leave right now.
Joe [02:09:22]:
Did you ever check like how many hours you spent on it or not? They had like a thing.
Denis [02:09:25]:
Yeah.
Toliy [02:09:26]:
My screen time was. Yeah, was. Was like 10 hours a day.
Joe [02:09:31]:
10 hours a day?
Eldar [02:09:32]:
Yeah.
Joe [02:09:33]:
That's a long time.
Toliy [02:09:34]:
Yeah.
Joe [02:09:34]:
Holy shit.
Eldar [02:09:37]:
Man.
Eldar [02:09:40]:
Should I check yours?
Joe [02:09:42]:
Obviously.
Eldar [02:09:46]:
IPhone, like, makes it kind of easy for you to look that thing up. I have it on my iPad and it's like, like always asking me if I want to know. I'm like, why? You know, so they want you to look.
Toliy [02:09:57]:
And at home, I would use iPad and phone at the same time.
Joe [02:09:59]:
Yeah, I got a lot too.
Eldar [02:10:02]:
How much per day?
Joe [02:10:02]:
But I am making calls all day. 6 hours and 30 minutes.
Denis [02:10:05]:
Not bad, isn't it?
Toliy [02:10:06]:
Damn, that's a lot.
Eldar [02:10:07]:
Yeah, don't worry about it. See all that? You can always call on the big.
Denis [02:10:11]:
D.
Joe [02:10:15]:
I sure can. Absolutely. Kind of like what toys doing now?
Eldar [02:10:17]:
What? Moving things.
Denis [02:10:21]:
Mr. D. Wow.
Joe [02:10:22]:
I use six hours. Most used YouTube.
Denis [02:10:26]:
Yeah. Yeah.
Joe [02:10:28]:
Oh, no, but you see, the phone makes up five hours.
Eldar [02:10:32]:
Only one hour. So just calling. Five hours calling and one hour.
Joe [02:10:37]:
Yeah, look, four hours, 58 minutes. Yeah. Phone Just because I'm calling a lot.
Toliy [02:10:45]:
Yeah, but you're on like the computer a lot probably, right?
Joe [02:10:49]:
Well, yeah. What do you mean?
Toliy [02:10:51]:
Like watching, like what's.
Eldar [02:10:52]:
Just doing some on the Apple. Apple iPad.
Joe [02:10:55]:
I don't have an iPad. I just do it all from the phone. Cast it.
Eldar [02:11:01]:
Yeah. All right. All right, Cool, man. Yeah.
Toliy [02:11:04]:
Interesting.
Eldar [02:11:04]:
All right, guys. So we came from where we came from, came from the fact that excitement. Yeah, Excitement and how detrimental it is to our mental health, especially if it's very, I guess out there. Especially when you put it out there.
Denis [02:11:21]:
Unchecked excitement.
Eldar [02:11:22]:
Unchecked excitement. Yeah.
Denis [02:11:25]:
Yeah.
Eldar [02:11:25]:
Like, especially if you don't have a follow through behind that excitement.
Denis [02:11:29]:
Yeah.
Eldar [02:11:29]:
Right. Yeah.
Denis [02:11:30]:
I mean, I feel like right now I'm excited, right.
Eldar [02:11:32]:
Yeah.
Denis [02:11:33]:
About what I'm doing, you know, like what I'm about to embark in.
Eldar [02:11:35]:
That's a good. It's a good buy. Temple.
Denis [02:11:37]:
I don't feel like a pressure like, yo, I got like, rush this. And I was surprised. I was like, yeah, like, it's pretty sick. I'm like, I'm not in a rush here.
Eldar [02:11:45]:
I'm excited for you.
Denis [02:11:46]:
Even though before I was always in a rush. Like, okay, what do we do now? Yeah, I'm ready to make moves.
Eldar [02:11:51]:
I told you I'm excited for you. Genuine, genuinely excited for you internally.
Denis [02:11:54]:
Yeah.
Eldar [02:11:55]:
And I'd be upset if you pull the plug on this. Like, that's, that's where I would be upset.
Denis [02:11:59]:
Oh, yeah.
Eldar [02:11:59]:
I'm now invested.
Denis [02:12:00]:
Yeah.
Eldar [02:12:00]:
Because you got excited.
Denis [02:12:02]:
Yeah.
Eldar [02:12:02]:
And I'M like, oh, wow. Like, you're ready.
Denis [02:12:04]:
Yeah.
Eldar [02:12:05]:
To embark on this journey. Which is awesome. I can't wait to see what comes out.
Denis [02:12:09]:
Out of it. No, me too.
Eldar [02:12:10]:
You know what I'm saying? So, like. Yeah, but I'm not, like, I'm not losing my head over it.
Denis [02:12:13]:
Yeah. I don't feel like I'm.
Eldar [02:12:14]:
And you're not either.
Joe [02:12:15]:
So.
Eldar [02:12:15]:
So it's a very.
Denis [02:12:16]:
I'm sitting tight, like. Yeah. I feel like I'm moving slow.
Eldar [02:12:20]:
Yeah.
Denis [02:12:20]:
I can't.
Eldar [02:12:21]:
You know, I think that not you. Not only you will enjoy it. I will enjoy it, like, immensely.
Denis [02:12:26]:
Yeah.
Eldar [02:12:27]:
Yeah. You know, if anyone. Which is gonna be awesome.
Toliy [02:12:29]:
If anyone wants to use them.
Eldar [02:12:32]:
Okay. Nice.
Eldar [02:12:34]:
Oh, my God. You do.
Eldar [02:12:36]:
Wow, that is pretty sick. They even made a dumb one. Smart.
Joe [02:12:41]:
Sick.
Denis [02:12:41]:
Yeah.
Eldar [02:12:42]:
Yeah. That's why you chose that one.
Joe [02:12:44]:
Where'd you get the phone?
Toliy [02:12:46]:
This was the only dumb one they had ever.
Joe [02:12:48]:
Oh, you went and got it.
Denis [02:12:51]:
Yeah.
Eldar [02:12:52]:
So, yeah.
Denis [02:12:53]:
Unchecked excitement is dangerous.
Eldar [02:12:55]:
Yeah. And also. Yeah. If you don't have a little bit of caution behind it as well, like you do right now. Right. I think that form is a little bit maybe tainted where the type of excitement that we're describing now with you, there is something behind it where we actually. There was work behind it. There was stuff behind it.
Eldar [02:13:11]:
So now we want to see into the field. That's, like, what's actually gonna come out. Out of it. You know what I mean? And we're not. And we're cautiously excited.
Denis [02:13:17]:
Yeah, cautiously.
Eldar [02:13:18]:
Because we know that there's still some more girls up in that house and there's jury still out on some conceptually understood and learned. But in the field, we'll see how it plays out.
Denis [02:13:30]:
Yeah.
Eldar [02:13:30]:
So I'm excited for that. I'm very excited for that. Like, internally.
Joe [02:13:34]:
It's your one year. It's October. It's your one year anniversary of jumping in the bed.
Eldar [02:13:38]:
Yeah.
Denis [02:13:39]:
It's funny. How'd you know that?
Joe [02:13:40]:
As I remember, it was October, right?
Denis [02:13:42]:
It's. Yeah, I didn't think about that, but I got an email a few days ago, like, hey, you sent, like, flowers to somebody.
Eldar [02:13:48]:
Oh, wow.
Denis [02:13:48]:
And in Russia.
Eldar [02:13:49]:
Yeah.
Denis [02:13:50]:
Would you, like, send it again?
Eldar [02:13:51]:
It's a year.
Denis [02:13:51]:
I was like, wow.
Joe [02:13:53]:
Yeah, that was. That was. She was here in October, right?
Denis [02:13:58]:
She was here in October.
Eldar [02:13:59]:
Yeah.
Denis [02:13:59]:
Right after my birthday.
Eldar [02:14:00]:
Say.
Toliy [02:14:03]:
Yeah. I feel like all those also, like, wait, when you get to that, like, at the point where, like, Mike is like, like, not. Not that there's like a. Like a Like a pressure that like, you know, could be put on him. But it's like a. Like I feel like, like when. When like I think that like you're doing well. It's almost like it's like a continuation and the expectations, I guess, are there to continue up pull that.
Toliy [02:14:31]:
And it's good to be like. It's good to see it like that, like, like that like the expectations increase as you also.
Eldar [02:14:39]:
Yeah. And things a lot things align more like, you know, the thoughts and the actions and everything else gonna start aligning and you're no longer in this like limbo where you like, you know, this excitement that never will get you anywhere. You not sure about, like, this is. I feel more sure about this. You know what I mean?
Denis [02:14:57]:
Yeah, I do too youo know, and also I genuinely feel that the reason to do this journey is because I genuinely feel like. I feel like I have enough maybe. I don't know if it's the right word, but maybe like an abundance, you know, And I'm ready to share, you know, that's very. Versus, like I'm lacking and I'm looking for something in somebody else where it's like, yo, I got mad energy. I'm ready to like, maybe share a journey with somebody else now, you know? Yeah. And it doesn't come from like I want to.
Eldar [02:15:32]:
Yeah.
Denis [02:15:32]:
It's more so like I'd like to have a lot I already feel inside that like I want to. And I'm offered the challenge, I guess offer the. Not challenge, but like I'm offering for the journey, you know, I'm ready to like, embark on it. Yeah.
Eldar [02:15:48]:
Yeah. That's great. Well, for the listeners, they'll be happy to hear it, I think.
Denis [02:15:54]:
Yeah. To see what they got to come on for the next episode. To hear that.
Eldar [02:15:57]:
That's right.
Denis [02:15:58]:
Breaking news.
Eldar [02:15:58]:
The juicy part.
Eldar [02:16:00]:
I gotta make sure I tune in.
Denis [02:16:02]:
Because I gotta pause.
Eldar [02:16:04]:
I missed a conversation, I guess.
Eldar [02:16:06]:
Yeah, yeah.
Denis [02:16:08]:
Did we answer the question that you posed though? Like, why do people do it so repetitively?
Eldar [02:16:14]:
I didn't ask that question.
Eldar [02:16:15]:
No, no, that was.
Denis [02:16:16]:
Did we talk about why do people like get excited and they never do anything and then they try to get excited again before you answered it, like.
Eldar [02:16:25]:
And you guys gave different. Different things and they were all like. At least from my experience of it, it was bang on. It was Right. Yeah, yeah.
Eldar [02:16:35]:
I mean, ultimately it's. You want it. You want to lead from these things that we talked about into a practical sense of what the hell is actually happening to us when we get Excited, you know what I mean? And what, and how it can be detrimental to us, especially when we voice it and don't do nothing about it. Right. Because a lot of times people get excited, don't do stuff about it. Some people do follow through obviously through the excitement, stuff like that, and they connect it, which is good. But a lot of people don't. So there's detrimental, I think to your mental health when you don't.
Eldar [02:17:03]:
And you don't even know how slowly, slowly describe it starts to creep in everywhere.
Denis [02:17:08]:
Yeah.
Eldar [02:17:09]:
You know, and next thing you know, you having conversations with yourself about shaming yourself, guilt, you know, everything being yourself up and stuff. Just that negative self talk that is constantly leading you on, you know, you.
Denis [02:17:23]:
Never, you know, do you think all those things add up to like getting you eventually to where you need to go?
Eldar [02:17:29]:
They do.
Denis [02:17:30]:
So in a way they do. It's not, it's not. But then it's not the best way, obviously.
Eldar [02:17:34]:
Yeah, but that's for you to know because you know, you're thinking about it now. You're a reasonable person right now. Any person who sits down and like they don't want to go the long way. They don't want to sign up for that. They want to actually make things happen. They want to change their lives for the better. Nobody's gonna sign up consciously to go on this long ass journey hitting their self, hitting their heads against the same nobody.
Toliy [02:17:56]:
The paradox is like, like I find this just in, in a, in general about like life is that like the paradox of like this, like this, what you consider this like more efficient or quick way or stuff like that is like your actions are lightening up with that and that, and that's like what you feel is happening. And then like because you feel that you naturally feel that like you maybe know of another way. But that way it's kind of like, oh, like this is like, like you know, this like ruling long way.
Eldar [02:18:29]:
Yeah.
Toliy [02:18:30]:
And I just feel like it's, it's just funny how like the paradox of like this like slow kind of like, you know, like way like doing it right and stuff like that. I just feel like it always ends up being way faster than the way that you thought was faster to begin with. But it doesn't feel that way in a moment early on. Like only like when you're in it or maybe like. Yeah, like in, in, in it. Does it like feel, feel that. But the start, it's like there's always this like faster way that you're like that you, you're like, convinced you can hack, right? But it ends up being that, like, you just try, like, a million of these hacks, and they're probably, like, seven times longer combined than just that one. Like, one long way.
Toliy [02:19:15]:
That what you consider was a long way.
Denis [02:19:17]:
Yeah.
Eldar [02:19:18]:
Correct.
Toliy [02:19:18]:
So, like, it's just funny, but, like, if you're in that for the life of you, like, you. You will never feel that, like.
Eldar [02:19:24]:
Yeah.
Toliy [02:19:25]:
That's, like, the fast way.
Eldar [02:19:26]:
Yeah. That's the tricks that we ourselves play on ourselves.
Toliy [02:19:29]:
Yeah. Like, everything I always felt that, like, would take so long ended up happening so fast. And everything that, like, I felt like, okay, like, this is around the corner so quick, like, it still hasn't happened.
Eldar [02:19:41]:
Yeah. Yeah.
Denis [02:19:42]:
We were kind of what he was saying, what we're talking about yesterday. Why is it so hard to ask for help?
Eldar [02:19:48]:
Right?
Denis [02:19:49]:
And actually that yesterday said, because ask for help is a great thing, and great things, not easy to come by. That's right. I think that's what it is. In order for you to maybe humble yourself and ask for help and how to get to where you think you want to go, and maybe that is actually where you need to go. Where you don't, that's another thing. But it requires you to ask for help, you know? But that's a great thing to do, and it's a very hard thing to do.
Eldar [02:20:15]:
Correct. Even though it sounds like it's easy, it's really not. It's paradoxical.
Denis [02:20:18]:
But. No, but it is very, very hard. That's why.
Eldar [02:20:24]:
Mm.
Denis [02:20:25]:
That's why it's great. Right?
Eldar [02:20:26]:
That's why it's great.
Denis [02:20:27]:
Yeah. What did he say? It can't be cheap. Yeah.
Eldar [02:20:31]:
This shit can't be cheap.
Denis [02:20:32]:
It can be cheap.
Eldar [02:20:33]:
Can't be cheap.
Denis [02:20:34]:
Because it's too good to.
Eldar [02:20:34]:
Cheap. Yeah, yeah, yeah. This is true.
Denis [02:20:37]:
Yeah.
Eldar [02:20:38]:
All right, final thoughts.
Denis [02:20:46]:
Nobody got final thoughts.
Eldar [02:20:47]:
I'm asking. No, I think you either.
Toliy [02:20:50]:
Yeah. I think you either either live by.
Denis [02:20:52]:
The gun or die by the bullet.
Toliy [02:20:53]:
Yeah. You either, like, you either keep thinking.
Denis [02:20:57]:
Or you keep thinking, or you get disciplined.
Eldar [02:21:01]:
Wow.
Toliy [02:21:02]:
One or the other.
Joe [02:21:06]:
Write it down. T shirt.
Eldar [02:21:11]:
Not today. Yeah, that's a distal. That's bad. Yeah.
Denis [02:21:23]:
No, there's, like, the thing that. The debate that we keep having back and forth d. I don't know how this, like, how it could be solved without, like, I guess, comparing notes at the end of the day, you know, because that's the only proof that will be accepted, you know?
Eldar [02:21:39]:
Yeah. But who cares about.
Denis [02:21:40]:
No, no.
Eldar [02:21:41]:
I got, like, what comes to my Mind, think about the final thoughts. Like, because this phenomena is happening and it's happening to everybody. Not just Catherine, not you, me. It's everybody.
Denis [02:21:52]:
Yeah.
Eldar [02:21:52]:
Like, the cliche thing I came to mind is like, we're the worst enemies to ourselves. Like, it's crazy.
Eldar [02:21:59]:
1,000.
Joe [02:21:59]:
That's not.
Eldar [02:22:00]:
I can definitely, you know, say, like, it's crazy. Like everything that we just described is that we're playing all these mind tricks just to fuck ourselves over. You know what I mean? Just ourselves. Yeah, the process. We fuck other people too. Well, yeah, we do. You know, most importantly, number one, we fuck ourselves.
Eldar [02:22:18]:
Can you imagine how much better off we would be if. If we were taught these things? More like, you know, more awareness, like how to better control your thoughts and all these things as well as everything else that we learned in school.
Toliy [02:22:32]:
It's so much harder.
Eldar [02:22:33]:
Mental health is people like, you know, like, we just might just talked about. Babe. It's like getting help. It sounds like it's an easy thing, but it's not.
Eldar [02:22:42]:
It's really hard. Do you mean getting help from help.
Eldar [02:22:45]:
Like mental health, period, Just period. Any help?
Denis [02:22:48]:
Right.
Eldar [02:22:49]:
Just asking for help in general is just very difficult. Why? Because it's so great. So what you're talking about is such a great thing, but it's so hard to come by. It's supposed to be this way. It's supposed to be difficult.
Denis [02:23:00]:
Yeah.
Eldar [02:23:01]:
This philosophy, it's supposed to be difficult. And it is. It's not. It's not like a, you know, just walk in the park. Let's just educate all our kids. In order to educate all our kids, we have to have really good teachers.
Toliy [02:23:15]:
Or really good discipline. Sorry, I'm.
Eldar [02:23:19]:
That's fucked up, bro.
Toliy [02:23:20]:
Yeah, no, I feel like.
Eldar [02:23:22]:
I mean, that's like discipline to me.
Toliy [02:23:24]:
To me, it's like this discipline is applied at like at the point of like decide desire at that moment, super superseding, like, thought. I feel like that that's like when you have to like. Right. Because like, if you can't continue to think and continue to like, figure out a way or continue to examine or like, like. Yeah, like if you can't enjoy what you're doing. Yeah, right. Then you need to say, okay, like, we're. We're here, but we want something.
Toliy [02:23:59]:
Right? That's the only way you apply discipline is if you want something.
Eldar [02:24:02]:
Right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Of course. There's no. Like, there's an old desireless discipline.
Toliy [02:24:07]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like if I told you that this step stool is not doing shit and it never will.
Eldar [02:24:11]:
Would you Wouldn't do it. No. Yeah.
Toliy [02:24:14]:
Right. So it's like that discipline is applied is when, like, desire supersedes, like, the. Like, the belief in yourself to continue.
Denis [02:24:24]:
My thing. I said. I don't know if you guys heard it.
Eldar [02:24:27]:
My thing about.
Denis [02:24:27]:
My thing about discipline.
Eldar [02:24:28]:
Why is it that it's hard to hear discipline exists. Like, Sorry.
Denis [02:24:36]:
No. My thing was. It's maybe on his level as well. My thing is discipline exists when love is abandoned.
Eldar [02:24:43]:
That's sick, too.
Denis [02:24:44]:
Yeah. Because that's.
Eldar [02:24:46]:
That's why.
Denis [02:24:46]:
That's why when we were talking earlier.
Eldar [02:24:50]:
For yourself.
Denis [02:24:51]:
Yes.
Eldar [02:24:52]:
You gotta oppress yourself. Yeah.
Toliy [02:24:53]:
That. That's why I said before. I said, for discipline to exist, love and passion cannot be present.
Eldar [02:24:58]:
No. Yes. Wow. Hold on one second, guys. Mike, face that again.
Denis [02:25:02]:
Yeah. Discipline exists when love is abandoned. It's reckless.
Eldar [02:25:11]:
Right?
Denis [02:25:11]:
Like, that's why I got so upset, like, in the. Like, an hour ago, and I said, yo, discipline is dead, yo. I had to kill it.
Eldar [02:25:18]:
You had enough of it.
Denis [02:25:19]:
Because I understood that. What I said, I understood what that meant, and I agree with it.
Eldar [02:25:22]:
Yeah. Yeah.
Denis [02:25:23]:
I cannot. This is dead. I can't. I want to talk about. I don't want to have anything to do with it.
Eldar [02:25:28]:
You're bad.
Denis [02:25:29]:
Because it goes against everything that I believe in.
Eldar [02:25:31]:
Yeah.
Toliy [02:25:31]:
And Mike. And Mike was a God. Golden child. Growing.
Denis [02:25:34]:
Yes.
Eldar [02:25:34]:
No, he was always running a mug. Yeah. Look what you ended up.
Denis [02:25:40]:
You slug.
Joe [02:25:43]:
All right, D. I. I just. I don't know.
Eldar [02:25:46]:
The.
Joe [02:25:46]:
The hype words is. That's the beauty of philosophy, yo.
Eldar [02:25:54]:
That's sick.
Toliy [02:25:55]:
All right?
Joe [02:25:55]:
But.
Eldar [02:25:56]:
Yeah.
Denis [02:25:56]:
What's wrong with my statement? What's not sitting well with you, Gilbert?
Toliy [02:26:00]:
Make that a shuttle there. The best part of philosophy is the hype words.
Denis [02:26:05]:
Yeah. No, let's wrap it.
Toliy [02:26:09]:
It sounds good on paper.
Denis [02:26:10]:
I.
Joe [02:26:10]:
Man, you know, like. Like, I think I really love myself. So, like, for that statement to be valid in this case, where you're saying that I'm trying to use this, like, man, you know, like. Like, I can. I can safely say I truly love myself. Right? Like, of course I want to be better, and I haven't accomplished all the things, but I can, you know, And I have love in my life as well. But most importantly, you know, with me in this dynamic that we're talking about. So, I don't know, like, the hype of the words again, beauty of philosophy is like, oh, damn.
Joe [02:26:46]:
Like, that was good. But, like, you really start to, as you guys like to say, peel back the layers.
Denis [02:26:51]:
Yeah. Is that I'm open to peeling back some players. I'm not hungry yet, kid.
Joe [02:26:57]:
Yeah, I have to call Joey because last. Last time, you know, you guys didn't.
Denis [02:27:01]:
Do such a good job. Tag team.
Joe [02:27:03]:
Well, no, I mean, I don't know. I don't know who. Well, you thought you did a good job with the smoking idea.
Denis [02:27:08]:
I mean. Yeah, I think so.
Joe [02:27:10]:
All right, listen. That's what I'm saying. And then the beauty of it is. Is also philosophy is subjective. It's like, of course you're thinking, you got it.
Eldar [02:27:16]:
You got it.
Joe [02:27:17]:
You know.
Denis [02:27:19]:
Love is also. I mean, philosophy is just. It's not actual implementation.
Eldar [02:27:23]:
Would you wear that shirt or no. What if I got this for you?
Joe [02:27:25]:
Which one?
Eldar [02:27:26]:
The beauty of it is a philosophy. Subjective.
Joe [02:27:31]:
Yeah. My final thoughts is.
Denis [02:27:34]:
Well, we're not gonna have a taste about this.
Eldar [02:27:36]:
Yeah.
Joe [02:27:36]:
I mean, if you want. I said it. You didn't say anything about. I mean.
Denis [02:27:40]:
Yeah, yeah.
Joe [02:27:40]:
Like, wait, would you say that. So if we.
Eldar [02:27:42]:
That.
Joe [02:27:43]:
That's the thing, right? Like, that's why it's easier to jump.
Eldar [02:27:45]:
On the next one.
Joe [02:27:45]:
Because if I hold you to your statement.
Denis [02:27:47]:
Yeah, well, I'm not the one who's asking to jump. You jumped. You jumped onto the next topic, you guys.
Joe [02:27:53]:
Then it's the next thing.
Denis [02:27:54]:
Yeah.
Joe [02:27:55]:
If we hold it to a statement, like, you know.
Denis [02:27:58]:
Yeah. What is usually, like, then we have.
Joe [02:28:00]:
To do what you don't want to do. And then it's like we're trying to.
Denis [02:28:04]:
Build the great life we would have discussed. We'll have to go back to last week and define what is. What does it mean when you say you love yourself? What's self. Love?
Joe [02:28:12]:
Yeah, yeah. Like, I don't. I don't beat myself down with, like, I'm my number one cheerleader, you know, when I. When I have a bad day, I try to pull myself out of it. I always try to look at the bright side. I'm trying to be thankful for what I do have. Right. Like, I have those qualities.
Joe [02:28:30]:
I'm not trying to. You mentioned. You know, I'm not one to just sit and talk.
Denis [02:28:33]:
Yeah, yeah. No, no, please do.
Joe [02:28:35]:
But in this scenario, it's like these intrinsic qualities I would. I would constitute to a person who loves themselves. You know what I'm saying?
Denis [02:28:41]:
Like, how do you. How do you measure if a person loves themselves in a. In a healthy way versus, like.
Joe [02:28:52]:
Versus, like, an egomaniac way?
Denis [02:28:55]:
Like a flawed way? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't know how to put the right words together.
Joe [02:28:58]:
Say the flawed way would be if I love myself so much and I look at everybody else and like, they're flawless. I'm better than them. Or like, you know, like, you have.
Denis [02:29:06]:
To get an idea of what people around you think and the relationships you have.
Joe [02:29:10]:
What do you mean?
Eldar [02:29:11]:
Say it.
Denis [02:29:11]:
I don't understand. Well, you said something about your peers. Didn't you say something about your peers? You have love in your life. Yeah.
Eldar [02:29:23]:
Yeah.
Denis [02:29:23]:
Okay.
Joe [02:29:23]:
So unless that's also debatable based on these theories.
Denis [02:29:27]:
Yeah, no, I mean, I think the word love is a very. It's a big word. So in order for us to talk about what I think love is and you think about love is, we have to. We have to define what we think love is. Oh, yeah.
Joe [02:29:41]:
We probably.
Denis [02:29:42]:
Ultimately, love exists.
Joe [02:29:44]:
The same idea on it. We could probably go do the words play about how we go about it or whatever, or how the best way to go about it. But probably what you think or what I think, what I feel. What you feel. When we're in that state, we're probably talking. We're probably on the same page on that. We can assume.
Denis [02:30:00]:
No, I mean, yeah, I would.
Joe [02:30:01]:
I'm not like a raging maniac over here, you know, like, thinks love is, you know, abusing, you know, or picking.
Denis [02:30:10]:
On her for her.
Joe [02:30:13]:
Go ahead.
Denis [02:30:14]:
Oh, I don't know. I'm just talking shit.
Joe [02:30:17]:
Yeah.
Denis [02:30:18]:
Not really. Yeah, No, I mean, we can't. We can discuss what you think love is and what I think love is, and we can, you know, we would have to see if we agree.
Joe [02:30:29]:
Yeah.
Denis [02:30:29]:
Because you saying you love yourself, you.
Joe [02:30:31]:
Know, you probably wouldn't agree.
Toliy [02:30:34]:
Sorry, are you coming into saying that you disagree that he loves himself?
Denis [02:30:37]:
I'm not saying. I say. I don't know. I don't know what.
Joe [02:30:41]:
Say that.
Denis [02:30:41]:
No, I don't.
Eldar [02:30:44]:
He has a standard based on his statement. Yeah.
Joe [02:30:46]:
That love.
Eldar [02:30:47]:
Using the same word, love. But Mike might say, okay, in order to love yourself, you have to do X, Y, and Z. Dennis is gonna say, no, actually, to love yourself is A, B, and C. So they need to be able to define it.
Toliy [02:30:57]:
Yeah, define. They can't have a conversation prior to define.
Denis [02:31:01]:
Correct.
Eldar [02:31:01]:
100.
Denis [02:31:02]:
That's what.
Joe [02:31:02]:
That's what my challenge. The reason why I'm getting in this challenge is because the T shirt, which he's. He branded as the truth, which is, you know, love is dead. When you got discipline. I'm. I challenge that by saying, you saying, I don't love myself. So that's what we would then have to. But that's we might have to.
Joe [02:31:16]:
For the sake of Catherine's mental health. We might have to do it another time.
Denis [02:31:19]:
Catherine went into Archie's place. She was highly moment.
Toliy [02:31:26]:
Is it checking out?
Eldar [02:31:27]:
I'm done.
Eldar [02:31:29]:
What is happening to you?
Joe [02:31:31]:
Yeah, maybe that's the topic for the next time.
Denis [02:31:33]:
No, for sure.
Joe [02:31:34]:
What. What is. What is self love or how is. I don't know. Although I think we just had one.
Denis [02:31:38]:
We talked last week about self love. Yeah.
Joe [02:31:40]:
Yeah. But it's like a different version, I guess.
Denis [02:31:42]:
Yeah. Yeah.
Joe [02:31:44]:
So, yeah, that's just, you know.
Denis [02:31:46]:
No, I. I get what you're saying.
Joe [02:31:48]:
The words, Mike. You can put the words together. They sound good.
Denis [02:31:50]:
But no, just from Mike's.
Joe [02:31:52]:
Even with this. Even with this. To be honest with you. Even just last on that with his brick phone, to me, I guess it is. You could really just define anything as anything to me. He's applying this. You know what I'm saying? Like, that's complete.
Denis [02:32:05]:
Yeah, but he could. But again, he could apply discipline, but he could also be applying love. It depends. Yes, they are claiming. I think they are.
Joe [02:32:16]:
I don't think they are. I think that most certainly he's applying love for the goal, but he's also applying discipline. Was like, yo, to remove this thing that has impacted his life so much, to completely ban it, man, that's a major change. That's a major structural change. He applied a certain discipline.
Denis [02:32:32]:
Yeah. If you believe it. If you believe in something, right. You truly believe into that thing, which.
Joe [02:32:38]:
He'S saying he doesn't even know what's gonna happen.
Toliy [02:32:40]:
Yeah.
Denis [02:32:41]:
So then he. Then he. Then. Then I would say he might be applying discipline, but if he does believe in it, he is applying love because he understands what he's actually doing at the core.
Joe [02:32:52]:
I don't think, like, you get. You separating love and discipline, and that's where then it's like, okay, what can I argue about? You know, My man is saying, like, yeah, you. Like, you know.
Denis [02:33:01]:
Yeah, no, we could definitely love.
Joe [02:33:03]:
Or you're superseding the mind, which I agree with you also. That's the point. That's where also we could get into another argument. It's like you claiming the mind can help so much, but, like, mind is the same culprit that gets you into the anxiety 100.
Toliy [02:33:17]:
Use it like. Like you have to.
Denis [02:33:18]:
You're not speaking. You're not speaking into the right end of the mic, yo.
Toliy [02:33:26]:
Yeah, I was saying that you have to untangle the wires that you tangled. And if you leave a tangled mess, then you need to suppress yourself with discipline to yeah, keep that shit tangled and move on.
Joe [02:33:38]:
Probably if you, if it's real tangled, you probably can't even apply this thing because you wouldn't have come to the thought that like okay, with the action, a kk, AKA discipline, you will break through that tangledness as well. I think it's also a matter of like, there's many ways to get there. Even though you guys are, you know.
Denis [02:33:56]:
There is definitely multiple ways to go.
Joe [02:33:58]:
Yeah, like, you know, like I said.
Denis [02:34:00]:
The ways to get there are the actual important things, not the destination. The way that you get there is the important part. If you do it through love or through discipline, that's only thing that matters.
Joe [02:34:11]:
Separating them. I'm not separating them.
Denis [02:34:17]:
Does discipline feel like this Discipline to you carry an annotation of forcefulness.
Joe [02:34:24]:
I'll answer that by saying something else.
Eldar [02:34:26]:
To answer your real question, take one example, right. He said I clearly did not like doing this. So yes, there was force involved there where I don't think that in the moment of him doing it for the next two months he applied self love, correct?
Joe [02:34:41]:
No, no, I absolutely did.
Eldar [02:34:42]:
You. You missed.
Joe [02:34:43]:
You miss 100%. I was going to answer that.
Eldar [02:34:45]:
You didn't enjoy.
Joe [02:34:47]:
When I say I got to do four weeks and this is what's going to happen and I'm going to burn 7,000 calories every week. Let's say I was doing three and a half thousand a week, which is a pound. And after those four weeks it's accomplished and I stuck with it and I didn't miss a single day. Not a single day. Let's say in this example. Not. Let's say that's what happened. The self love, the empowerment, the joy like you feel.
Joe [02:35:11]:
It's not like a man. I just was miserable. I had no. I love the fact that me with my own two hands set out on an objective.
Denis [02:35:19]:
That's how it's supposed to feel.
Joe [02:35:20]:
And there was love in it, you.
Denis [02:35:22]:
Know, but you didn't. Weren't able to extend yourself enough love to like forgive yourself being four pounds overweight.
Joe [02:35:28]:
Well, yeah, no, I don't want to forgive myself.
Denis [02:35:32]:
Yeah, that's what.
Toliy [02:35:33]:
How long does that like I have a vision accomplishment like last though.
Joe [02:35:39]:
And that's what I want to.
Toliy [02:35:41]:
How long does that feel? I did this, you know.
Joe [02:35:46]:
Not for long. Obviously the goal is accomplished, but I.
Toliy [02:35:48]:
Mean, so you gotta go like into a month boot camp to lose that pound and be like you so did it and then you gain it back and then you have to go another month.
Joe [02:35:56]:
What do you mean, gain it back?
Denis [02:35:58]:
Didn't you gain it back? Is that why you had to lose it in the beginning?
Joe [02:36:01]:
Well, no, no, no.
Denis [02:36:02]:
Eventually you gain along the way.
Joe [02:36:04]:
There's mistakes that happen, of course, because, again, you fall short, just like anything in life, and then you apply the D word to fix it, or you apply whatever other magical way you want to do it. But of course, there's been times where I fell off, but in this scenario. No, actually you say, how long does it last now? It's been two months where I'm like, yo, fucking. That fucking shit. I actually remember, like, every couple days, like, oh, shit. Like, I'm still. I look at the thing. It's still the exact same fucking weight.
Joe [02:36:28]:
Why? Because of the work that I put in. And I get to enjoy in and taste those fruits. It's like you put the fucking thing for the cucumber garden, and then you reap the benefits later. You know what I'm saying?
Denis [02:36:40]:
Like, d. Can I. Can I ask you a question? And this could be off the air, because I. I don't.
Joe [02:36:44]:
I would love for you guys to, you know, like, if I'm dead wrong here, I would love to, like, be rerouted.
Denis [02:36:50]:
I have a question. Yeah, I have a question. Maybe. Maybe it'll.
Eldar [02:36:53]:
You don't mean that. Come on.
Denis [02:36:54]:
Yeah, maybe. Have you had. You love your. Your fiance?
Joe [02:37:01]:
I think so.
Eldar [02:37:02]:
Yeah.
Denis [02:37:02]:
She's your fiance, right?
Joe [02:37:03]:
I think so.
Denis [02:37:03]:
You love your fiance.
Joe [02:37:04]:
I hope so. Yeah.
Denis [02:37:05]:
And in the love of your fiance, is there moments that you do love her and you don't love her or you love her all the time?
Joe [02:37:12]:
I mean, if I was being honest. Yeah, probably there's moments where I don't love her.
Denis [02:37:15]:
Okay.
Eldar [02:37:17]:
Not on air.
Joe [02:37:18]:
Yeah.
Denis [02:37:18]:
Well, that's why I said you could cut this out in. In those moments. Right.
Joe [02:37:22]:
That's a good point. I'm better.
Denis [02:37:24]:
Well, I said to you, you might have to cut this out.
Eldar [02:37:27]:
The ability to cut without listening.
Joe [02:37:31]:
Why do you think I'm not listening?
Denis [02:37:33]:
You learned how to not listen to this nonsense. Twice is like a punishment, right? Yeah. So, okay, D. Can I. Can I ask you this question in. In the moments when Asley. Yeah.
Eldar [02:37:59]:
No, I was like, yo, he's relistening. Maybe he's able to get it now, you know?
Joe [02:38:04]:
Yeah. Like, this is healing me.
Denis [02:38:06]:
Yeah.
Joe [02:38:06]:
You know, appreciate you giving me the opportunity to heal.
Eldar [02:38:10]:
Yeah.
Toliy [02:38:11]:
Twice.
Eldar [02:38:12]:
I really enjoy it twice in a week.
Joe [02:38:14]:
I don't even need any discipline for it.
Eldar [02:38:16]:
Yeah.
Toliy [02:38:16]:
Whatever you did in your last Life was real bad.
Eldar [02:38:19]:
Oh, my God.
Toliy [02:38:20]:
You probably assassinate some president or some.
Denis [02:38:27]:
Yeah. I was saying you love your fiance.
Joe [02:38:30]:
Yeah. Yeah.
Denis [02:38:30]:
And there's also moments you said that you don't love your fiance.
Toliy [02:38:33]:
Yeah.
Denis [02:38:34]:
And has there been a situation that your fiance asked you for something in the moment that you did love her and you did it, and then in a moment she asked you for the same thing and you didn't love her and you didn't want to do it, but you still applied discipline and you still did it, or you were, or you didn't do it. Was there moments like.
Joe [02:38:53]:
It's always interesting, but you see what you. It's.
Denis [02:38:56]:
Well, I understand.
Joe [02:38:57]:
Twist them a little.
Denis [02:38:57]:
I didn't twist it.
Eldar [02:38:59]:
No, it's pretty clear.
Denis [02:38:59]:
It's a good example.
Joe [02:39:00]:
It's not twisting them to make them to fit the narrative. Trying to get across.
Denis [02:39:06]:
Well, I mean, I'm trying to. Yeah. There's not that difficult. Squeeze it out.
Joe [02:39:12]:
No, my point is.
Denis [02:39:13]:
Yes.
Eldar [02:39:13]:
Or just.
Joe [02:39:14]:
It's framed how. It's framed by saying that, like by definition, if I'm saying I don't love her in a moment. But that's. But that's. I can argue that's not. It's all case by case. For instance. Yes.
Joe [02:39:25]:
In the moment where I'm. I got to do something that I didn't. What did you say that I don't want to do for her?
Eldar [02:39:29]:
Yeah.
Joe [02:39:30]:
Say it again.
Denis [02:39:31]:
Have you had a moment where when you love your fiance and she has you do something which is like, let's say, do point A to point B and you do it and you love her and you do it. That comes from love.
Joe [02:39:41]:
Yeah.
Denis [02:39:41]:
It's easy now. You're not in love with your fiance. Whatever. For the moment. Because it's all moments.
Eldar [02:39:47]:
You in the fight.
Denis [02:39:47]:
You're in a fight and now she asks. Or not even in a fight, you're just tired, you're grumpy, you didn't get sleep. I mean, this million.
Eldar [02:39:54]:
Different situation.
Joe [02:39:54]:
That's the better version. Because in that version, I would argue you can't just definitively, just because I don't want to do it, that I don't love her anymore.
Denis [02:40:01]:
No, no.
Joe [02:40:02]:
I'm like, of course there's been a million.
Denis [02:40:04]:
Well, in the moment. You know, in a moment when she asks something. But you're grumpy.
Joe [02:40:07]:
Yeah.
Denis [02:40:08]:
And you're being nasty. You definitely don't love her.
Joe [02:40:11]:
If I'm being nasty. Sure.
Denis [02:40:12]:
Yeah. And you don't want to do it.
Joe [02:40:15]:
Sure.
Denis [02:40:15]:
You're being. You're not. You don't. Can't say you love her at that moment. Right. But then you.
Eldar [02:40:20]:
Generally speaking, he is.
Denis [02:40:22]:
Overall, yeah, I think he loves his fiance. Yeah, most of the time.
Joe [02:40:26]:
But in those moments, I actually agree with the subliminal culprit over here. What he said in the final thoughts was it's crazy how the mind is our biggest enemy. So like in that moment, even when you're trying to. That's what I'm saying. It's tricky. What you're doing here is because you're trying to divide. It's either you love her and you're doing something with love or you don't love her and therefore you have to apply this.
Denis [02:40:51]:
Are you. You don't think that exists?
Joe [02:40:53]:
No, I'm saying that in that moment when I don't want to do it or when I don't want to get up to get the 4am the kid, the mind comes into play. Even if it's for a moment and it's like, damn, bro, like I want to be sleeping. But then the love can overpower because the love isn't involved in this mind. Your boy Vermeer was touching on it last week.
Eldar [02:41:10]:
Actually, it's fooling a little bit. Spooling.
Toliy [02:41:13]:
But why?
Eldar [02:41:13]:
The law on the other side.
Joe [02:41:15]:
The law.
Eldar [02:41:15]:
Some people go to sleep deep. The love you complete very deeply at night. So it is.
Joe [02:41:20]:
Wait, what? The love comes out. It supersedes the mind. Right. And it could come in the form of discipline. It could come in the form of. Yeah, you just don't even. I mean. Yeah, like it's.
Joe [02:41:31]:
It's tricky because discipline could be defined in many ways. But like.
Denis [02:41:34]:
So in that moment, you choose to apply discipline. You do something for her at the sacrifice of yourself. Love in order to show love to that person.
Joe [02:41:45]:
You can argue.
Eldar [02:41:46]:
Sure.
Joe [02:41:46]:
Yeah, you can argue. Yeah. My self love. My ideal. As you love to have the self love will be. I gotta get my eight hours. You know what?
Eldar [02:41:52]:
Everyone.
Denis [02:41:52]:
No, I'm not even talking about the kid.
Joe [02:41:54]:
I gotta get.
Denis [02:41:54]:
I'm not talking about the kid. I'm talking about something very simple. Yeah, baby, your wife asked you to make tea and you're fucking tired. You're angry. You got a rough day at work and you're not in lovey dovey mode. And now you have to apply discipline to get your lazy ass up and go make the tea with two scoops of honey, sugar, milk, whatever. Lemon. Sure.
Denis [02:42:13]:
Complicated process. Yeah. Now, river bagel.
Joe [02:42:17]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Denis [02:42:18]:
You're applying love or you're applying discipline. Is there a differentiation?
Joe [02:42:24]:
The tree, his love still. But the branch in that moment is the discipline to overcome the mind, which is in the moment. Like that.
Denis [02:42:33]:
Yeah, but you said to me that in. In that moment, you don't. You don't have love.
Joe [02:42:42]:
Yeah, I think, you know.
Denis [02:42:43]:
Yeah.
Eldar [02:42:43]:
Checking out is that.
Denis [02:42:44]:
Yeah, I think the. No, this guy wanted to follow you. Like, he's. He's watching a dog fomo.
Joe [02:42:52]:
He's got. He doesn't have a phone anymore.
Denis [02:42:54]:
No, I understand. He wants to play, but.
Joe [02:42:56]:
Yeah, you know, where's he going?
Eldar [02:43:04]:
He's got a huge balloon in his stomach. He got a demon on him, bro.
Denis [02:43:13]:
That was isolated.
Eldar [02:43:14]:
What happened?
Denis [02:43:15]:
Nothing.
Eldar [02:43:16]:
What.
Joe [02:43:16]:
What do you mean?
Eldar [02:43:19]:
I was listening to this.
Denis [02:43:21]:
Did he answer your question or no, no. Yeah, he's branching that discipline is under the tree of love, which we fundamentally disagree.
Joe [02:43:32]:
It can be in this scenario. It is absolutely. I don't know how you're getting the idea that discipline just. We would also even have to look at the Google. Even just the basic definition of.
Denis [02:43:41]:
I don't think it's in that moment when you. Not when you're not displaying self love, that you can display love to another person. Like, how does that work?
Joe [02:43:48]:
But then again. Okay, so what is self like? Self love is what? Self love, as you said, also can be used in two different variations, right?
Denis [02:43:55]:
Oh, yeah.
Joe [02:43:56]:
In that moment, if I'm tapping into the self love, that saying, yo, my man, like, I'm tired.
Denis [02:44:00]:
Like, yeah, you should tell her, babe, I'm tired.
Eldar [02:44:02]:
Yeah.
Denis [02:44:03]:
And you know, get your ass up. Go make that tea.
Eldar [02:44:05]:
Yeah.
Joe [02:44:06]:
Versus the deeper self love, which is like, all right, if I love myself, but I love her, we connected or whatever. However far you want to go that role, it's like, all right, like, she needs me in that moment. Unless it's like really something stupid. But let's say it's. She needs me, right?
Denis [02:44:21]:
She needs you to make tea. Like, what's the. What's the criteria here? She's glued to the couch.
Joe [02:44:29]:
Well, that's what I'm saying. It really just. It's, it's. It's a. We have to.
Denis [02:44:33]:
I know, but then we cannot call situation. Then we. Then that's what I'm saying. I'm saying there is a divide between love and discipline. When you don't love. When you love her, you love her and you don't need discipline. When you don't love her, then you're required to use discipline and anti self love.
Joe [02:44:48]:
Listen, I can agree that love Makes any action easier. You don't have to even.
Denis [02:44:54]:
Really.
Joe [02:44:54]:
Yes, because it's almost like the ultimate discipline. Because you don't have to use it because it's just your mind is.
Denis [02:45:00]:
No, I think the thought, yeah, should I do it?
Joe [02:45:02]:
Should I not do it? Do I want to do something?
Denis [02:45:05]:
I think love is the opposite of discipline.
Joe [02:45:07]:
Oh, yeah, I. Sure, you can. You can argue it's like the ultimate.
Eldar [02:45:12]:
Right.
Joe [02:45:12]:
Because if you're in that love. But the problem is how many things out of your day, of every your life, do you. Do you have that as you would have for that?
Denis [02:45:22]:
Yeah, see, that's what I'm saying, Dee. But the problem is why you have that is because you go into love and you make a bunch of promises of things that you think you want to do, but at the core, you. You commit to a lot of things that you don't want to really do. You sign yourself up to a lot of shit.
Joe [02:45:39]:
Yeah, sure.
Denis [02:45:40]:
You know, and I think then you have to. You get yourself in trouble, and now you have to do those things.
Joe [02:45:45]:
Absolutely. You know, for, like, your example.
Denis [02:45:48]:
That's why you just got to say, yo, I'm gonna live a simple life. We're gonna, you know, keep it real humble.
Joe [02:45:53]:
Yeah, listen, I'm. I feel terrible. You know, we got cat. Cat wants to go home and relax, guys.
Eldar [02:45:59]:
I could get. I could hop in my car and.
Joe [02:46:01]:
Just go, yeah, like, it's. It's. We'd have to explore further, you know, because I. I don't think that love is. Is automatically the opposite of discipline or doesn't exist in this way. I think discipline can be loveless 100. But I don't think that you can just completely categorize it as, is it possible to have.
Denis [02:46:23]:
No, I'm. I said I think that love is the opposite. I never said it's 100%.
Joe [02:46:27]:
Yeah.
Denis [02:46:27]:
This is my initial thoughts.
Joe [02:46:28]:
Yeah. What I can agree with you on is that yet maybe the ultimate quote unquote, we could call it form of discipline, AKA form of being able to get shit done or be in flow. Right.
Eldar [02:46:40]:
Is love.
Joe [02:46:41]:
Because when you're in that highest state, for sure, it's like it flows. That part I agree with you guys on.
Denis [02:46:46]:
Yeah.
Joe [02:46:46]:
The problem is finding that with the millions of things that we want to do and accomplish.
Denis [02:46:53]:
But, man, why, why. Why in the first place do you want to do an accomplish those things?
Joe [02:46:57]:
That's a good question.
Denis [02:46:58]:
Is that a lack of self love?
Joe [02:46:59]:
You have to weed out what you.
Denis [02:47:01]:
Or we feel like we're not enough. And we need to do all these things, you know, like, it's very deep.
Joe [02:47:08]:
I agree, I agree there's, there's a lot to it. And for some of the things, I definitely agree on that. Like, and again also I also. Which guys don't seem to understand is it's not a. It's not like I'm just blinding saying, oh, just disappoint, just. But you gotta think through. You gotta obviously, you know, apply both logic and that.
Denis [02:47:23]:
Yeah.
Joe [02:47:24]:
And action. But you know, my words are usually misunderstood. Antsy panty over here.
Denis [02:47:31]:
Well, you know, he's weaning off the drug. He's got a wet mock. Yeah, well, we can revisit. It's definitely interesting.
Joe [02:47:42]:
Yeah, no, listen, it's funny enough because this. We might have to call Joe back because this discipline thing and this doing what you love thing, we've hit you.
Denis [02:47:51]:
And Hammer on the same page on it, I think.
Joe [02:47:54]:
Yeah, some points for sure. He agrees on the. We were tackling your.
Denis [02:47:57]:
I think, I think the thing is maybe we look at love differently as it's like. Yeah, it's not, it's not just like you have. You're in a relationship and you love. I think it is momentarily it does come and go, it does visit. And there is a way to tap into it for to, you know, be more in your relationship. But there's also ways as you can get tapped more into it, you can also tap out of it. And I think those moments, they need to be called for what they are that you can't say in that moment you were out of love with that person, you know, and you had to maybe this you didn't want to do for whatever reason, but at the sacrifice of yourself.
Joe [02:48:34]:
What would be the alternative? When you're out of love with that person, what's the alternative?
Denis [02:48:40]:
What's alternative if I don't choose discipline.
Joe [02:48:42]:
To counteract that out of love, let's say.
Denis [02:48:44]:
Yeah, you have to apply self love to yourself. Know that right now that you're not able to give that person. But also know that your relationship, if it's strong and is based on actual true love, most of the time, 90% of your relationship is based on love. 95. Whatever. You have to know confident that that will prevail. The love will prevail. And if it doesn't, and if you have to sacrifice yourself for love, then that will.
Denis [02:49:09]:
That shows where you're in. You are in your love. And I don't think can work out he's, you know, he had A little outbreak.
Joe [02:49:19]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, no, for sure. Yeah. We have to. We have to break down some concrete examples next time.
Denis [02:49:28]:
Yeah.
Joe [02:49:31]:
You know, maybe things with love versus, you know, I guess you have already even last week. But the self love and stuff.
Denis [02:49:40]:
I think just a lot of the. Especially like, you know, social media influence and stuff like that that we, you know, we. I watch those things too. You know, they all dictate like discipline. Discipline, hard work, like all these things. It's definitely ingrained in us, you know, that that's the way you achieve these things. It's definitely not promoted like a Zen approach where like, you know, like. Yeah.
Denis [02:50:00]:
Really get to know if this is what you love. And then I don't think if you do something you love that you can. It's impossible not succeed.
Joe [02:50:07]:
It's promoted that thing you're talking about. But how many people should do it? The first one.
Denis [02:50:12]:
No, they don't. But that's not what's required. It's required just to hype people up, buy the product or whatever.
Joe [02:50:19]:
Check this out. The truth.
Denis [02:50:21]:
Mm.
Joe [02:50:21]:
It's probably in one Buddhist book that we really all need, let's say.
Eldar [02:50:25]:
Right.
Joe [02:50:25]:
But we're not reading it. We just spend all of our time, let's say, trying to figure out our own. We have. We form our own philosophy clubs. Our own knowledge is our own things.
Denis [02:50:32]:
Yeah.
Joe [02:50:33]:
When like in reality, like that is probably in there. Somebody of very many thousands of years ago already kind of laid it out. But we want to do it our own way. It's like. My point is.
Denis [02:50:42]:
No, we wanted talking about discipline for sure.
Joe [02:50:45]:
It's become kind of. Especially with social media promote, like it's been commercialized. But then we have to ask how many even. Even though that's become more popular, how many people are actually doing it? So it's like if people were actually doing it and it's.
Denis [02:50:57]:
Well, I think. I think the burn rate and discipline and the burn rate on excitement are very. They might be closely related.
Joe [02:51:04]:
The burn rate of trying to.
Denis [02:51:06]:
Trying but not succeeding.
Joe [02:51:07]:
But the burn rate of trying to get to alignment is also very related.
Denis [02:51:11]:
Yeah.
Joe [02:51:11]:
It's anything that's. Of course it's hard. It's all.
Denis [02:51:13]:
They're all hard.
Joe [02:51:14]:
It's all hard.
Eldar [02:51:15]:
Yeah.
Joe [02:51:15]:
That's why I feel like it's. Listen, if.
Denis [02:51:18]:
But if you like it, it's not hard. It can be hard.
Eldar [02:51:22]:
I agree with that.
Joe [02:51:23]:
I agree with that.
Denis [02:51:24]:
It can be hard if you like it.
Joe [02:51:25]:
I agree.
Denis [02:51:25]:
If you love it, you know, I agree with that.
Joe [02:51:29]:
But My. My only question is, is it possible to love everything that you do at all times?
Denis [02:51:36]:
And I think with time, I think you get there. I don't love everything that I do. But as I'm uncovering more things that I don't enjoy, I'm looking at ways to eliminate those things in a proper way. Like, I'm not gonna say, you know what? I don't like work. I'm not gonna go to work anymore.
Joe [02:51:53]:
Yeah.
Denis [02:51:53]:
But I'm trying to figure out ways that is gonna make my day easier, my life easier. So, you know, work is more enjoyable more and more.
Joe [02:52:01]:
Yeah.
Denis [02:52:01]:
So that.
Toliy [02:52:02]:
Yeah. I just see, like, from your conversations and stuff like that. The big fundamental difference that I see is that I don't think that, like. I don't think that, like, D disagrees with, like. I don't know what. What you're saying in these things. I just think that he questions the possibility of other.
Denis [02:52:21]:
Being a real. It's not a huge. It's not a unicorn utopia.
Toliy [02:52:25]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Then I feel like, like, his examples are probably, like, it also, like, two people that don't know each other. Right. It's like, yeah.
Eldar [02:52:40]:
Like, he.
Toliy [02:52:41]:
Like, yeah. D probably hears you speaking and being like, yo, you're just talking about your shit, but you're not doing any of this shit.
Denis [02:52:47]:
Yeah, it's possible. Yeah.
Toliy [02:52:49]:
That's just what I hear.
Denis [02:52:52]:
Talk about it, be about it.
Joe [02:52:55]:
Yeah.
Eldar [02:52:57]:
But Mike is also coming out of his personal experience now, too. That's why he's like, I have my. My evidence as to how I used to do things and how I do them now.
Toliy [02:53:04]:
Yeah, but that's the problem. Is that, like. No, I know, but when you have a disciplinarian speaking to a slacker.
Eldar [02:53:11]:
This is true.
Joe [02:53:12]:
But I can argue that we can. Just because Mike had success, which he.
Eldar [02:53:17]:
Did at higher levels, wouldn't be success.
Joe [02:53:21]:
Money success when there was crazy money back then with the Lambo days. I could argue. I'm not saying that I could fully argue that, because I would have to. I don't know if I can fully argue that he didn't necessarily have discipline there. He got success. I think maybe.
Denis [02:53:41]:
No, I don't. I had a lot of discipline and no love. Now I have no discipline. A lot more love.
Joe [02:53:48]:
Yeah.
Denis [02:53:48]:
That's the difference. Now. I had discipline. Yeah. When I broke up with Ira.
Eldar [02:53:54]:
Yeah.
Denis [02:53:55]:
Before Scotty.
Joe [02:53:56]:
What?
Denis [02:53:56]:
Ira was my, you know, previous love.
Eldar [02:53:58]:
See?
Joe [02:53:58]:
Okay.
Denis [02:53:59]:
So after that, the business. I did 3X on my own.
Joe [02:54:03]:
Yeah.
Denis [02:54:03]:
On my own.
Joe [02:54:04]:
See?
Denis [02:54:04]:
So no, Scotty I'm glad you said.
Joe [02:54:06]:
Because I could see why you associate. Why you get an ink, like you said, is because you discipline. Tasting discipline came after that. And so you associate like. Like I'm doing it with both at the same time. So, like, to me, it's like when you tell me, hey, like, it's impossible to do both, I'm like, bro, like. Like, that's not true. You know my.
Joe [02:54:30]:
That's how I feel. But if you're saying that you. You tried to apply it or did apply. Like I said, I wasn't. I didn't mean to. Like, I'm just trying to think about the thing. I'm not trying to, like, take a shot at you with the Scotty thing.
Eldar [02:54:40]:
No matter how you spin it, every time you bring. He's gonna say, like, you didn't do.
Toliy [02:54:44]:
It the right way.
Eldar [02:54:44]:
Oh, okay. Because from where he's standing, it's impossible for you guys to.
Denis [02:54:47]:
Okay, no, take the sorry, wrap it up, let's eat pizza, stuff our faces, and go to sleep.
Toliy [02:54:52]:
Yeah, it's. Yeah, it's just like. It's an endless pit of, like, back and forth. A disciplinarian speaking to a slacker.
Eldar [02:54:58]:
Correct. Yeah, like you said, the problem, the kicker is because they don't know each other.
Denis [02:55:03]:
Yeah, yeah.
Joe [02:55:04]:
No, my own thing was. Yeah, if you. If you're coming into that after that revenge kind of a thing.
Denis [02:55:09]:
Well, for sure.
Joe [02:55:09]:
I could see how, like, you know, it's like me. Me listening to homeboy talk about Osho and stuff, even though I fuck with what he's saying, Vermeer, I fuck with a lot of what he's saying because I. That's all I used to spend time on. When he's talking about the mind, we talk about the energy, the love center, all the shit is all. And I believe. Still believe it, but I get the ick from it because I was in that world and it burned me bad. So now, even though I know that he's talking truths, not everything, some of the shit is like, oh, but some of the things. He's a hundred percent.
Joe [02:55:40]:
He knows some shit. And I believe in that as well, meaning what he's talking about, because they're intrinsic truths, but it gives me the ick. That doesn't mean that it's. It's wrong. Yeah, it gives me the ache because I had a bad experience with how.
Denis [02:55:53]:
It ended, you know?
Joe [02:55:55]:
So, I mean, that's just my interpretation on that part where it's like, if you got this ick and it came from that, you know? I don't know.
Toliy [02:56:02]:
I don't know.
Joe [02:56:02]:
It's. We'd have to, I guess, keep getting to know each other.
Denis [02:56:05]:
Sounds like we got to keep getting to know each other. Till the next one.
Joe [02:56:07]:
Yeah.
Toliy [02:56:08]:
All right, guys.
Eldar [02:56:10]:
Good job, man.
40. Discipline vs Love and why Discipline is dead
Oct 21, 2022•3 hr 56 min•Ep. 40
Episode description
What is the complex relationship between discipline, love, and mental health, particularly in how they intersect in achieving personal goals and maintaining relationships?
In Episode 40 of "Dennis Rox," host Eldar and Toliy, and guests Joe and Denis delve into the intricate dynamics of excitement without follow-through and its impact on mental health. They examine how repeated cycles of enthusiasm, unaccompanied by action, can lead to feelings of guilt, shame, and negative self-talk. Denis and Eldar discuss the balance between leveraging excitement for productivity and the importance of methodical, consistent efforts, emphasizing that the seemingly slower path often proves more effective.
Additionally, the episode navigates the philosophical debate around the coexistence of love and discipline. Joe contends that love can guide disciplined actions, while Denis argues that discipline often emerges when love fades. They explore this theme within the context of relationships, self-love, and personal growth, questioning whether genuine enjoyment can align with disciplined efforts. Eldar and the team also scrutinize societal influences, like social media, and their role in promoting a superficially disciplined lifestyle, challenging listeners to find deeper, more meaningful motivations for their actions.
Transcript
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