Toliy [00:00:00]:
On this week's episode, someone is coming you with one problem. And in order for you to help, you might need to ask some questions.
Eldar [00:00:05]:
Yeah.
Toliy [00:00:05]:
And when you ask those questions, you realize that there's a lot more problems. Right. If you bring up these things, it will cause the individual to, like, potentially butt heads with you.
Eldar [00:00:14]:
Yeah. I need to solve this problem A so I can continue on my journey. You're like, wait a sec. This problem A doesn't exist. You actually have problem B. And they're like, no, no, no. What are you talking about? Like, I have no time for that.
Mike [00:00:23]:
You know, this image of the successful business guy, promised land of the Jews, you know?
Eldar [00:00:27]:
Yeah.
Mike [00:00:28]:
And now I have to also act in such a way, like, I'm this business guy, like, know.
Eldar [00:00:32]:
Yeah.
Mike [00:00:33]:
Girls, part of it is a conflicting identity. Right. Maybe to the. To my father or to those girls, I want to present myself as, like, some kind of different version.
Eldar [00:00:41]:
Correct.
Mike [00:00:41]:
Versus, like, I'm actually this silly, goofy guy who doesn't really give a. About anything. Yeah. One. One of the topics I was thinking about, I was talking about with you guys, I guess, a little bit was the allegory of the cave. I'd like to understand that more what was meant when it was said, like, what's the responsibility of the person who maybe knows something and his duty or responsibility or desire? And versus what's right? What's wrong in the sense of helping others to kind of, you know, come out of certain situations or trying to figure this thing out?
Eldar [00:01:26]:
Mm.
Mike [00:01:28]:
That was the first one.
Eldar [00:01:30]:
Okay.
Mike [00:01:32]:
That's the first topic. In the second topic, I don't really have a question about it, but I think me and you were talking about it for a second about love. Why is love misused?
Eldar [00:01:42]:
You said.
Mike [00:01:43]:
Is that what you said? Misunderstood. Why is the word love or the understanding of love.
Eldar [00:01:49]:
I said misused.
Mike [00:01:50]:
I don't know what you said used misused. Yeah.
Eldar [00:01:52]:
Probably the word love.
Mike [00:01:53]:
Yeah. Misused. Yeah. And why. And like, what are the people's wrong perceptions, understandings about love?
Eldar [00:01:58]:
Yeah. All right, well, tell us why you personally, you know, want to talk about these topics.
Mike [00:02:05]:
Well, for love, I think that's something I've been thinking about a lot, especially very recently, more on the romantic side, but, you know, also in the friendship side and the family side. Love. Finding love. And that's definitely something that's been interesting for me in the whole process of the journey.
Eldar [00:02:24]:
Yeah.
Mike [00:02:25]:
So that's a huge, you know, next step, I think, for myself, you know, next big step, you know, so I'D like to, you know, know what I'm getting myself into and yeah. Hopefully succeed at it, you know, in the long term. So that's why it's close to me. And the second topic is, throughout the journey that I've been going on right now, a lot of, you know, sometimes I think about the stuff that is kind of like I'm experiencing. It feels great and I want to share with other people and I want to help people to also to live like a good life that I think I'm living, you know, and figure out what's my obligation there or if there's obligation, will it be effective? Will not be effective. So there's a lot of questions around that, you know, because you see people around you suffering that, like, you know, maybe your parents, maybe some friends.
Eldar [00:03:18]:
Yeah.
Mike [00:03:18]:
You know, kind of thing to. You want to help them. But is going back in the cave the help they need and how do you go back in the cave or.
Eldar [00:03:28]:
Yeah, yeah. All right. Well. Yeah, I know me. You mean you watched a little allegory of the cave.
Mike [00:03:35]:
Yeah.
Eldar [00:03:35]:
Thing that Socrates talked about. Right. I mean, Plato. Yes, we know what that is. Pretty much. Right. But we don't know. We didn't go further to find out what are the ethical implications and like what, like, you know, what.
Eldar [00:03:46]:
What's your duty if you came out of the cave? Right.
Mike [00:03:49]:
Yeah.
Eldar [00:03:49]:
So let me look this up real quick.
Mike [00:03:50]:
Okay.
Eldar [00:03:51]:
To see, you know, if not, then we'll go probably to the love topic, which.
Mike [00:03:54]:
Yeah.
Eldar [00:03:54]:
Which is great too.
Mike [00:03:55]:
Yeah. Plus, I think love everybody wants, you know.
Eldar [00:04:00]:
Okay, let me read this to you.
Mike [00:04:01]:
Okay.
Eldar [00:04:02]:
Okay. Real quick. See if you like it.
Mike [00:04:04]:
Okay.
Eldar [00:04:04]:
Socrates likens our perception of the world around us to habitation in prison. Okay. This coincides with his understanding that one is not as smart as he thinks he is. Right. Okay. So Socrates says that the philosopher is a prisoner freed from the cave. Right. So when you discover philosophy.
Eldar [00:04:22]:
Right. Start seeing things for what they are actually, you know, because they're no longer. You see only shadows on the wall. Right. Just your perception. The philosopher sees the true form of reality, and others only see shadows on the wall that are created by this reality. Right. The prisoner's first trip to the fire tells us that besides needing perceptions that can be adequately oriented to evidence has to fit into the preexisting paradigm of the prisoner's belief system.
Eldar [00:04:48]:
And in the case of this allegory, it is going to take a great degree of acclamation. Is it the philosopher's job to bring people into the light? Is A philosopher supposed to be a writer of pamphlets made to incite action. Does he have a moral obligation to try when he returns? If the philosopher's truth is so profound that it cannot fit into paradigms of the other prisoners, then he's a fool to talk about it, you see?
Mike [00:05:17]:
Yeah.
Eldar [00:05:17]:
Okay. To do so makes him a religious fanatic among atheists, saying, even though I look severely damaged, come with me up to this path to Valhalla. There is no moral dilemma. If the contention is that he should try to convert his fellow prisoners, he should only attempt to convert them if it is feasible to do so. In the case of this algorithm, it is not feasible. And I agree with Socrates that they would try to kill anyone who attempted to drag them out of the cave. Even if the conversion is feasible, to not do so is not necessarily immoral. So very interesting, which we talked about earlier too, that, you know, I mean, it goes back to like, I guess the philosophy of Eastern philosophy, more so maybe somebody else teach when asked, right? Because if the recept, if the mind is not receptive in the moment of receiving the information, it can be perceived as a threat, Right?
Mike [00:06:23]:
Yeah.
Eldar [00:06:24]:
You know what I mean? So you being the person who's like, okay, I got this profound knowledge, taking individual, like I don't know, your parent, for example, right? In case, let's take Tony's dad, for example, right? Who's constantly suffering from these illusions or whatever and totally coming in and say, you don't want dad.
Mike [00:06:39]:
That's it.
Eldar [00:06:39]:
Going forward, this is the solution to it all. He's going to be look totally looked at as a crazy person who's a religious fanatic who try to brainwash now his dad into something completely different, you know, and more likely he's gonna find resistance there.
Mike [00:06:53]:
Okay.
Eldar [00:06:54]:
You know what I mean? So you'll be a fool to do that, Right. You know what I mean? I guess then the suggestion by Socrates would be to know what you're up against. Right. If it's feasible, it says. Right. If it's feasible, more so you should definitely try. Right. But if it's not, then, you know.
Mike [00:07:16]:
Yeah.
Eldar [00:07:17]:
Your, your efforts would be in vain.
Mike [00:07:20]:
We talked about a little bit today with Toli and I was saying, I think you were saying to me is that when a curse, when a person is complaining, they're kind of coming out and saying, hey, complaining about a thing, are they asking for help or. No.
Eldar [00:07:38]:
Not directly. Not directly. I think you have to really pay attention, close attention to find out when is actually a good time for them. To get help because they actually will be asking for help. You could lead them there, I think, by asking questions about that which they're complaining. Right. And then as you go around and around and around with those questions, a lot of times what Socrates, I think found is that a lot of times people just run away and like. I actually don't want to talk about that.
Eldar [00:08:03]:
Oh, I don't know. Yes. You know, they get scared off, you know, they don't want to actually solve the problem. Right. That they're talking about.
Mike [00:08:13]:
Interesting.
Eldar [00:08:14]:
You know.
Mike [00:08:15]:
Yeah.
Eldar [00:08:15]:
So what do you think there's a good topic you want to go into or.
Mike [00:08:18]:
No, it sounds like it's kind of dead.
Eldar [00:08:21]:
Well, did it help answer your question? Or maybe you're the level, your personal.
Mike [00:08:27]:
No, it doesn't sound dead. It sounds like Socrates saying not to. Or that approach says not.
Eldar [00:08:32]:
No, I think, I think this guy was trying to answer Socrates. Socrates, the question is the moral. Do we have a moral obligation to go back to the cave and show these people the reality for what it.
Toliy [00:08:42]:
Is without them asking for it?
Eldar [00:08:44]:
Well, I'm not sure if they're asking. Right.
Mike [00:08:47]:
They're, they're, they cannot, they're not really. Right.
Toliy [00:08:50]:
Yeah, well, that's what I'm saying.
Eldar [00:08:51]:
I think shadows on the wall, that's their reality.
Toliy [00:08:54]:
Yeah, I think like, part of it is like not, not, not always trying to like, impede the process of that person because, for example, like, someone complains about something. Right. Sometimes, like rather than questioning or talking to them about it, like right away, but letting them complain and kind of just staying quiet and being more passive and letting them come back around many, many times to complain. I think that like, that could lead to like a better place where they might be more receptive youe think so? Well, I think it could if you, if you.
Eldar [00:09:32]:
What does the strategy is to just to stay quiet. Okay.
Toliy [00:09:35]:
Yeah. Yeah.
Eldar [00:09:35]:
Or are you one of those people kind of like, yeah, no, I understand. Or like, like, what are you doing?
Toliy [00:09:39]:
No, just to kind just to kind of be more on the passive side.
Eldar [00:09:44]:
Give me an example.
Toliy [00:09:45]:
Well, I feel like when someone's complaining, I don't believe that they're complaining. Like they're saying this to you for a particular purpose. But I think that they want a reaction that they're like, they want you to have a particular reaction.
Mike [00:09:59]:
Passion.
Eldar [00:09:59]:
Okay, so see, what he's saying is very interesting though, and I agree with him. I think the complainer is probably looking to solicit a particular reaction.
Toliy [00:10:09]:
Yeah, like sometimes they want you to feel bad for them.
Eldar [00:10:11]:
Correct.
Toliy [00:10:12]:
Sometimes they just want you to listen to everything but not do anything. Yeah, sometimes they want you to. I think that sometimes people want. Want you to confirm that, like, yeah, that sucks. And there's nothing you could do about it.
Mike [00:10:23]:
Yeah.
Eldar [00:10:24]:
Yeah. So then, so that's a little bit.
Toliy [00:10:25]:
More like a, like a good feeling.
Eldar [00:10:28]:
Yeah. So how do you go around like kind of finding out or deciphering that which is being complained about.
Mike [00:10:34]:
Yeah, well, I decided to totally. What interesting was the approach that you, you mentioned a couple times that Socrates the troll. And I think regardless of what people come, the trolling is the gatekeeper to see like where your person's head is at. Probably.
Eldar [00:10:47]:
Yeah.
Mike [00:10:47]:
You know, if you're joking about it, number one, I think you also, by trolling, you may. May have them think like, yo, like, this is not in that serious. Why am I taking this so seriously?
Eldar [00:11:00]:
Yes.
Mike [00:11:00]:
You know, and I. And then you might provoke some thinking.
Eldar [00:11:03]:
Correct. Or you can provoke anger. Right?
Toliy [00:11:05]:
Anger.
Eldar [00:11:06]:
So. So, yeah, so I've done that before, especially with my mom, you know.
Mike [00:11:10]:
Yeah.
Eldar [00:11:10]:
Shout out to my mom. But like a lot of times I'll do that. Right? Like you said, what I do it. I'll take her serious quote, unquote situation and I'll make, I'll make, I'll poke fun at it. You know what I mean? And I could see how far I can poke fun at it up until a point where she starts to like, yo, this is serious. What the fuck? You know what I mean? And I'm like, okay, you want to have a serious conversation now? We can have a serious conversation. Tell me about it. Right? And I sit down and I start asking questions that are actually going to be pertaining to the actual problem.
Eldar [00:11:38]:
Right, right. And showing her that there's. She's going to sit here now give me the undivided attention in order for me to try to help her solve it.
Mike [00:11:44]:
Yeah.
Eldar [00:11:45]:
You know what I mean? So, yeah, I think that's a definite strategy. I think like you said, a gatekeeper or a sales term is a qualification process, a qualifier. Right?
Toliy [00:11:59]:
Yeah, but so, so question around, like helping, right? Do you think that. All right, all right. So like this, something I've definitely experienced many times and probably most of us here have as well.
Eldar [00:12:12]:
Yeah.
Toliy [00:12:12]:
So do you think that the idea of, like you not having holes of yours to pick at isn't a essential part of helping somebody? Example. Right. D. I'm gonna need you to participate here. Right.
Eldar [00:12:29]:
Not speaking at the mic right now, by the way.
Toliy [00:12:32]:
There's plenty of times where like, I don't know, like, let's say D might say something that, like, I don't know if he's, I don't know, struggling with something or like, or may, or maybe he is not right. But like, I'll poke at it, but because I have holes of my own, he's not willing to have a conversation about it. Even though, like, deep inside of me, I feel like on that subject that we're talking about, I feel like that I am competent and that I can help. Right. But because I have particular holes on my own, may maybe either within that same sphere. Right. And sometimes I'm better at guiding and helping others and always applying from myself. Yeah, right.
Toliy [00:13:15]:
But this happens, I think, plenty of times where it's like someone has something and as soon as you like highlight it. So you're making it bigger now, right? That person feels like an attack is being made against them. And now instead of now continuing to examine that one thing, they now are like, okay, let me look at your.
Eldar [00:13:36]:
Your receipts.
Toliy [00:13:37]:
Right?
Eldar [00:13:38]:
Yeah.
Toliy [00:13:38]:
And they'll start.
Eldar [00:13:39]:
That's fucked up.
Toliy [00:13:40]:
You bring it plenty of times.
Eldar [00:13:43]:
But this is a good example. Yeah, it is a good.
Toliy [00:13:45]:
Yeah. I'm not saying 100%. I mean, this happened to all of us, right?
Mike [00:13:49]:
We all got the.
Eldar [00:13:49]:
Yeah, no, no. Yeah, for sure. D. What?
Mike [00:13:53]:
That's your thing.
Eldar [00:13:55]:
Yeah. No, no, no, I agree.
Mike [00:13:56]:
Right.
Toliy [00:13:57]:
Yeah. So. So I'm saying in those cases, do you think that part of the process to helping people, is this a societal condition where you need to not have holes to endure a whole process of helping someone? Because it's like if somebody is struggling with something, right, like they're going to be fighting, they're going to like, there's going to be something inside of them that's going to try to fight it at all costs. Right?
Eldar [00:14:23]:
Let me tell you, Let me tell you. No, because the first thing is you started talking about that. Let me throw a word called a word friendship in there, okay?
Toliy [00:14:32]:
Okay.
Eldar [00:14:33]:
I think friendship, okay? If you have friendship with an individual and it's actually felt and understood and it's mutual, okay. That individual, for the moment being, has the ability to not see your imperfections and only concentrate on theirs within that moment. So they can, you can be as you, you know, as a good friend, you can be their path to, you know, solving that. That problem. Because you are using friendship as the bridge.
Toliy [00:15:04]:
Yes.
Eldar [00:15:04]:
But yeah, so it doesn't matter if you have same problems. Right? And I think a lot of people, this is A lot of. How a lot of people actually get help, right? So just because, you know, they have problems in their relationship.
Toliy [00:15:14]:
No, but I also acknowledge. Yeah, I read that, like, friendship can be a bridge, right? But I'm also thinking if the person is really struggling with something, they could be so sick with it, and. And, like, there could be a really strong internal battle that I'm not sure if they'll be able to. To, like. To, like, some summon friendship as, like, a bridge at all times. Like, I feel like.
Eldar [00:15:43]:
Yeah, yeah.
Toliy [00:15:44]:
Like. Like, at that moment, they're gonna be sick, and they're gonna potentially view you as an enemy, and they're gonna try to be like, okay, like, all right, well, my shit sucks. Well, your shit sucks, too. Like, you know.
Eldar [00:15:55]:
Yeah, no, but. No, but then. But then we're not talking. We're not even talking about solving a problem here. We're talking about now. Comparing. Comparing.
Toliy [00:16:02]:
Well, that's what I'm saying is that I think that sometimes in the process of helping solve a problem, the individual is sick. And instead of trying to examine the problem, they don't have the ability, the time, and they go right away to comparing.
Eldar [00:16:14]:
I mean, but then you're not talking about friendship. Totally. I think you talk about something completely different.
Toliy [00:16:19]:
No, no, but. No. So then I'm asking you, don't come.
Eldar [00:16:23]:
To a friend, say, hey, Mike, like, I have a problem with my car. You know what I'm saying? And then Mike starts somehow judging me about my car. And then I'm like, oh, but you look at your car. Look at the wheels in your car. Like, you know what I mean? Like, that's not it. If I came to you and I said, hey, like, I need help with the brakes or whatever, Mike's gonna, like, as a friend, you should say, okay, although we can buy you new brakes or we can change them right now, or you could do this, this and that, right? Like, there should be no questions asked about comparison where, like, I go into, like. Like, I'm coming already humbled, right? My car is messed up. My brakes have messed up.
Eldar [00:16:55]:
And Mike has some solutions for me. You know, he's my friend.
Toliy [00:16:58]:
There's no way.
Mike [00:16:59]:
But I'm not talking about.
Toliy [00:17:00]:
No, but I'm not talking about those kinds of situations. Like, those are very.
Mike [00:17:03]:
Maybe going into the cave prematurely when you don't have your shit figured out, but you're trying to go.
Toliy [00:17:09]:
It could be like. I'm not talking about, like, the examples that you're bringing up to me are, like, very isolated and Direct situations where, like, you have a clear problem and someone is competent in that area and you are in clear, neat need of help. And you're a bit helpless in that. I'm talking about those times where, like, somebody might be coming for help. Right. And then you start uncovering different things through conversation.
Eldar [00:17:38]:
Yeah.
Toliy [00:17:39]:
And, like, there may be a sense that, like, shit is more fucked up than it really is and it's being uncovered by someone else. And it sounds a bit mean.
Eldar [00:17:46]:
Well, there you go.
Toliy [00:17:47]:
And then they, there, they kind of feel threatened now. Right. Oh, and they kind of want to fire shots back. My question is, I like, do you need to have. Is it essential for you to have your holes filled prior to.
Eldar [00:18:04]:
I don't think what I think is happening is that phenomenon about the fact that you have actually. Right. He came to you with problem A, but you actually discovered problem A, B, and C. Okay. But nobody's ready for a, B and C solving here. You understand? They're just ready for A. Even though you think that it would be better to just encompass and solve A, B and C. Right.
Eldar [00:18:25]:
So what you're doing is you overwhelming the individual.
Toliy [00:18:27]:
Yeah.
Eldar [00:18:28]:
That stuff and what's happening at that moment is you're, you're not measuring properly, which kind of help you need to give that individual for that.
Mike [00:18:34]:
Okay.
Toliy [00:18:35]:
Yeah.
Eldar [00:18:35]:
So you're coming back to the cave saying, like, that's it. I can liberate everything. Look at this new stuff.
Toliy [00:18:40]:
You think that that's okay? Do you think that, that that interaction is an okay one? Or.
Eldar [00:18:45]:
What do you mean? No, it's not okay. Of course it's not. Because you're not, you're not accomplishing the. You supposed he's coming to you for help, and in turn, you guys get into a fight.
Toliy [00:18:54]:
Like, no, but I'm asking you if, like, I'm not sure. Like, in that case, if you want to. I'm not sure if it'll, like, apply there, but if you're like, hey, Mike, my brakes are messed up. And he comes and he looks at your car and he sees, wait, your engine is messed up.
Eldar [00:19:10]:
The reason why your brakes are messed up. Yes. Because your engine's messed up and because your roof is messed up.
Toliy [00:19:14]:
And this is le. Should he still just fix the brakes? Like, if I'm saying that, hey, hailed or like, I, I, I have a problem with my weight. Right.
Eldar [00:19:27]:
And then if I was only willing to spend a hundred dollars to fix my brakes, and this is what I am attached to. And now Mike is telling me that I Need to fix the roof and the leak on my roof in the car. That's what's causing the brakes problem, which is Gonna cost me $1,000. Yeah. He becomes the enemy, I think.
Toliy [00:19:42]:
No, so that's what I'm saying, though, if, like, someone is coming. You with one problem.
Eldar [00:19:46]:
Yeah.
Toliy [00:19:46]:
Right. And in order for you to help, you might need to ask some questions.
Eldar [00:19:50]:
Yeah.
Toliy [00:19:50]:
Right. And look at some things.
Eldar [00:19:52]:
Yeah.
Toliy [00:19:52]:
And when you ask those questions, you realize that there's a lot more problems. Right.
Eldar [00:19:56]:
Yeah.
Toliy [00:19:56]:
But, you know, let's just say now, ahead of time, that if you bring up these things, it will cause the individual to, like, potentially butt heads with you.
Eldar [00:20:05]:
Yeah. Yeah.
Toliy [00:20:06]:
Should you not bring up those things?
Eldar [00:20:08]:
If you know, then. Of course not. You shouldn't. You should apply as much pressure as you're able to handle or the other person's able to handle.
Mike [00:20:15]:
In a. What? An ideal situation.
Eldar [00:20:17]:
An ideal situation.
Mike [00:20:18]:
What about in a friendship?
Eldar [00:20:19]:
Well, that's What's. What saves friendship. That could save potentially the friendship. It should. It should carry. Carry that over and a good friendship.
Mike [00:20:27]:
Would you want that if you came to me and you said, yo, my fucked up. My brakes are bad.
Eldar [00:20:31]:
Okay.
Mike [00:20:31]:
And I don't tell you what the actual sources.
Eldar [00:20:33]:
Yeah, see, that's. That becomes tricky because then you talk about honesty now. You know what I mean? Because you know your roof is leaking, but you come in for break.
Toliy [00:20:41]:
That's what I was gonna say. Is that like.
Eldar [00:20:42]:
Yeah.
Toliy [00:20:42]:
Sometimes when we have these conversations.
Eldar [00:20:44]:
Yes.
Toliy [00:20:45]:
Like, yeah, I feel like if I don't speak, like, my minor for. Or stuff like that, I feel like I can't even participate in this. Like, it's like. Like, I can't just be like, all right, like, here's the solution maybe to this. Knowing the other stuff in my head. Like, I can't.
Mike [00:21:03]:
Well, it doesn't make me feel good. It's being communicated. Because if questions give.
Eldar [00:21:09]:
Yeah, but you see, Mike, it's a good. You're a good example here, Mike, because you went through this. This school of thought with him where you would come to me, I give you a little bit, and you kind of were okay with it. But Tor's like, yo, hold on. But you missed this other stuff. And when he gave it to you, you like, yo, what the fuck? He's attacking me. Like, you know what I mean? And I kind of had to pat it for you and say, yo, he's not really attacking you. He's actually trying to solve even the bigger problem that you have here.
Eldar [00:21:30]:
You know what I Mean, but you were not ready for that bigger problem yet, right?
Mike [00:21:33]:
Yeah.
Eldar [00:21:34]:
So that's the dilemma.
Mike [00:21:35]:
But I think. Yeah, I get it.
Eldar [00:21:38]:
So you know that then you grew up and you said, eldar, you know, there's a possibility that you're not. You're not giving me everything. Why are you not giving me everything? I'd like more. You know what I mean? There's potentially more truth that might sting right now. It might hurt right now. So give it to me raw, and then like, okay, Mike, if you want it, then I'll give it to you. You know what I'm saying? So it's. It's.
Eldar [00:22:00]:
It's. It's. Yeah, it's a very interesting phenomenon.
Mike [00:22:03]:
Yeah.
Eldar [00:22:03]:
You know what I mean?
Toliy [00:22:04]:
Yeah. But I think that also, if you go through one of those scenarios, there's no way. I think there's no way that you could request that kind of approach on things going forward.
Eldar [00:22:16]:
If what?
Toliy [00:22:17]:
Like, if there was something that you were working on and that approach was given. Let's say, like, during that time, you. You were completely ignorant as to what's happening. Right. And then let's say, like, that person broke through and actually, like, they were able to, like, work on and fix that thing. Right. I'm not sure, like, with the person knowing what they know now. Right.
Toliy [00:22:41]:
I'm not sure that they can be okay going forward with anything. But I agree with you that kind of.
Eldar [00:22:46]:
Because they reset their bar, and their bar is a lot higher. Yes, I agree with that.
Toliy [00:22:50]:
Yeah. But also, like, I also know that, like, hey, I want the truth. Right?
Eldar [00:22:55]:
Yeah.
Toliy [00:22:55]:
But I also know that, like, when that stuff comes out and, like, when, like, I'm really sick in those moments, I know ahead of time right now that I'm gonna be on the.
Eldar [00:23:07]:
Yeah.
Toliy [00:23:08]:
I'm. I'm not gonna be so nice.
Eldar [00:23:10]:
Yeah.
Toliy [00:23:10]:
I know that, like, I'm gonna get into the sick mode, that I'm gonna be blinded by things. But, like, I know that this ahead of time, so. Yeah, I almost know that. Like, yes. Like, there's gonna be an uncomfortable situation.
Eldar [00:23:25]:
Yeah.
Toliy [00:23:25]:
But I can't live myself knowing that, like.
Eldar [00:23:28]:
Yeah, you see, after a little while, like you said, like, what kind of friendships do we have? Then you're gonna question a friendship like, yo, do I want this type of friendship? You know what I mean? Where somebody's patting me because I'm actually in the mode not. And I don't have the ability to receive the truth.
Mike [00:23:43]:
Yeah.
Eldar [00:23:44]:
You know what I'm saying?
Toliy [00:23:45]:
Yeah. That. That becomes a blow to yourself versus the other person being a bad person.
Eldar [00:23:49]:
Correct.
Toliy [00:23:50]:
But in the beginning, it's viewed upon as that person's being a bad person.
Eldar [00:23:53]:
Yes.
Toliy [00:23:53]:
Then afterwards it's viewed upon is like, you. You're not going to put yourself in a situation where you're like. Yeah. You're like, living this kind of like Truman, like, kind of like Truman life. Yeah, yeah.
Mike [00:24:03]:
Experience.
Eldar [00:24:04]:
Yeah. And yeah. I remember, remember you used to ask me very particular question around that, you know, are you withholding something for me? Do you know, something more that I can't take in right now? Yeah, you know, it's, it's. Yeah, it's a. You know, it's interesting. So. Yeah.
Mike [00:24:20]:
Do you think. I guess another Socrates thing is he used to ask questions rather than his.
Eldar [00:24:29]:
The way he asked questions has led you to the answers.
Mike [00:24:31]:
Yeah. If you come somebody and they give an answer.
Eldar [00:24:36]:
Yeah.
Mike [00:24:37]:
That will not have the same effect if that person asks you a question for your question.
Eldar [00:24:40]:
Yeah.
Mike [00:24:41]:
And I think that that's like a. It's a great approach.
Eldar [00:24:44]:
It is.
Mike [00:24:44]:
Because in theory, it sounds great.
Eldar [00:24:46]:
Yeah. It's a lot more effective, I think. You know what I mean?
Mike [00:24:49]:
It's hard to do.
Eldar [00:24:49]:
Yeah. Because, like, look, for example, Right. Most of the time, people that have problems, they don't trust people to give them solutions. Okay. First of all, they don't trust themselves. However, they do trust themselves more than they trust others.
Mike [00:25:02]:
Oh, yeah.
Eldar [00:25:02]:
Okay. That's usually like the thing that goes. Right. So what happens is he, I guess he found out that, you know, by asking yourself questions, you answering them yourself. Right. You will trust those things yourself because you deduce them properly yourself. Right. With the case of you coming to me, for example, and asking me for an answer, I can give you the answer, but then we have to talk about trust.
Eldar [00:25:23]:
Do you actually trust me? You know, instead we have to jump over another barrier. Without trust, you can't take the answer in.
Mike [00:25:29]:
Yeah.
Eldar [00:25:29]:
You know what I'm saying? That's true. You know what I mean? But you can trust yourself, I think.
Mike [00:25:36]:
When you deduce it also English, but you take ownership of it.
Eldar [00:25:42]:
Yeah.
Mike [00:25:43]:
And now it's like it becomes partly like your truth now, 100%.
Eldar [00:25:47]:
Especially if it's a universal thing. Yeah. You know what I mean?
Mike [00:25:50]:
You reason through it logically. It's not like you just told me, oh, here, do this. And. Yeah, okay, I have to trust you. Yeah, yeah, do that.
Eldar [00:25:54]:
Yes.
Mike [00:25:55]:
Versus I reason through myself.
Eldar [00:25:57]:
But a lot of the times individuals who are sick or individuals who are complaining and need help, will say that unfortunately. Right. They will go and say, hey, give it to me how it is. I trust you because I can't trust myself. That's a bunch of bullshit.
Mike [00:26:11]:
Yeah.
Eldar [00:26:12]:
You know what I'm saying? Because a lot of times those individuals cannot. They cannot perform the requirements of the answer. You know what I'm saying? It just. It just. You can't sit with it.
Toliy [00:26:23]:
Yeah, that.
Mike [00:26:24]:
That.
Toliy [00:26:25]:
That's also why I feel, is that, like, when individuals are complaining, I think that, like, sometimes trying to take that, like, passive or quiet approach where it's like, you give no feedback. Right. And seeing if they continue doing it, I think that over time, like, you as a person who kind of can see what's going on more, you can do. You can measure whether somebody's, like, potentially ready or not to have a conversation based on, like, how they're complaining.
Eldar [00:26:55]:
Yeah.
Toliy [00:26:56]:
How often?
Eldar [00:26:56]:
Yeah.
Toliy [00:26:57]:
What kind of complaining is it?
Eldar [00:26:59]:
Right.
Toliy [00:26:59]:
Because, like, sometimes during the process of complaining, people already tell you that, like, yes, I'm complaining, but there's nothing that is possible to be done here.
Eldar [00:27:07]:
Correct. Yeah.
Toliy [00:27:08]:
Like.
Eldar [00:27:08]:
Yeah.
Toliy [00:27:09]:
When they say that, it, like. Yeah. And anything that you possibly say is gonna, like, it's. It's gonna be an attack.
Eldar [00:27:17]:
Most likely, yes.
Toliy [00:27:19]:
Yeah.
Eldar [00:27:19]:
Most likely. Yes.
Mike [00:27:20]:
So, like, there's gonna be.
Eldar [00:27:21]:
Yeah.
Mike [00:27:21]:
Because.
Eldar [00:27:22]:
Because what you're doing is. Right. What you're doing is the person who's complaining is in pain, Right. To a lot of degree. You have to kind of expose even more pain because they're under the wrong oppression. So you opening up another thing. Another painful thing. Right.
Eldar [00:27:35]:
So they have to go into more pain, and the person's like, yo, I already had enough of this. I'm exhausted. You know, a lot of times you had that, right? Where you like, yo, I'm exhausted. This is too much because we're opening up too many. Too many cans of worms, you know.
Mike [00:27:45]:
Yeah.
Eldar [00:27:46]:
And you can close them afterwards.
Toliy [00:27:47]:
So.
Eldar [00:27:48]:
Yeah. You know, it's. Yeah. You have to be calculated and see what the person can and cannot withstand within that moment. But you have to evaluate it, like you said.
Toliy [00:27:57]:
Yeah.
Eldar [00:27:57]:
For a while. You have to observe it if you're the good at it or, you know.
Toliy [00:28:03]:
Yeah. Yeah.
Eldar [00:28:04]:
But people are fucking tricky, bro. Yeah, you're very tricky, too. Everybody's very tricky when it comes to, you know, this kind of stuff, you know, because, you know, a lot of times everybody wants instant gratification, you know, to solve the issues and problems where instant gratification is not the remedy or the prescription that is being Applied for that particular problem. You know what I mean? You. I mean, you experienced that with totally what he said, you're not ready yet. You're like, what? Wait, what do you mean? Like, I need help, bro. Like, help me here, you know? He's like, no, based on what I'm observing, you're not ready to take on this medication, you know? And you're like, what the. You know, like, then it's a fight, you know, like, how do you convince.
Eldar [00:28:45]:
Right. The next question, how do you convince. How do you convince him that you're ready for what is. He's trying to prescribe you? Where he's standing from? He's like, yo, no, you're not ready.
Mike [00:28:53]:
Yeah.
Eldar [00:28:54]:
You know?
Toliy [00:28:55]:
Yeah. I also feel that, like, in those scenarios, there's resistance because the person feels that, like, if they don't take immediate action, like, in the moment where that person is saying that, like, I'm ready for action, and, like, let's say the other person who they're talking to feels that they're not. I feel like at that point, the person who needs the help feels that if. That if there is no action taken right now, something negative is going to happen. So I feel like. I don't know how, but maybe, like, is there a way for the person to say you're not. What's it called? Ready? But, like, almost like, nothing bad's gonna happen. Yeah, almost like, is there a way to not.
Toliy [00:29:43]:
Not, like, help them at that moment? Do the instant gratification thing and solve it? But maybe is there a method that can be done to put, like. Like a pause on this situation 100% or, like, it's not gonna go one way or 100%, and the person who needs the help will actually, like, believe that.
Eldar [00:30:00]:
Well, yeah, I think. I think with Mike, where we put everything on the board, we've kind of found the red hot items. You know, he was overwhelmed by too much. And then we said, okay, what's the most important stuff? Let's focus on that for now and put everything else to the side, you know?
Toliy [00:30:14]:
Yeah. Yeah. I feel like part of the stuff in general and helping, like, it's. It's a very tricky world because it's like the wrong language is being used on things.
Eldar [00:30:26]:
Yeah.
Toliy [00:30:27]:
And like. Like, someone's not saying, like, hey, I need help, but I have a ton of barriers to get over, and there's a ton of obstacles that we're going to have to go through and untangle.
Eldar [00:30:38]:
Yeah.
Toliy [00:30:39]:
And I'm going to resist a ton.
Eldar [00:30:40]:
Yeah.
Toliy [00:30:41]:
Is there something that we can do? Like.
Eldar [00:30:42]:
Yeah. No.
Toliy [00:30:43]:
It's like, I need help. And I feel like when someone hears that, the other person on the other side almost, like, feels this instant sensation of, like, okay, this person is ready to put their life in my hands and do exactly what I say, step for step. Like, I feel like that's not, like, as big, but I feel like a version of that feeling is felt by the person who's gonna be. Who's ready, like, you know, like this to dish out the help.
Eldar [00:31:09]:
Yeah. I mean, you're talking. You were talking about a good complainer. You know what I mean? Who's a good complainer? You know?
Toliy [00:31:16]:
No, no, the person was looking for help, Right.
Eldar [00:31:18]:
To come and present it in such a way.
Toliy [00:31:20]:
No, no, I'm saying that, like, the majority of the time someone just says, like. Like, someone complains and then. Or maybe ask for help.
Eldar [00:31:29]:
Yeah.
Toliy [00:31:29]:
And then the other person on the other line feels like them just asking for help or them complaining means that, hey, I have my guards down. I'm willing to do anything you say. Because, like, they could almost come across in that way. They might show, like, an emotion. They might, like, do that.
Eldar [00:31:45]:
Yeah.
Toliy [00:31:46]:
And I feel like. Yeah, the wrong words is being, like, used for, like, not the, like, the wrong actions.
Eldar [00:31:53]:
Yeah, well, that's what I'm saying. Like, you're. You're. Then you described an example of how if you're a good complainer, you will come and what you would say. Right? Yes. I mean, that's like.
Toliy [00:32:02]:
But I'm talking about also, like, a tricky complainer where it comes with, like. Like, his words. Like, I'm talking about the typical complainer who makes it seem like they're ready to, like, do anything, which is most of the people. Yes. But they're not. But I'm saying is that those people use particular words that can maybe lead the person that they're talking to feel like this person is willing to put one down and be with you hand for hand.
Eldar [00:32:30]:
Yeah, but.
Toliy [00:32:32]:
And their words might sound that way.
Eldar [00:32:34]:
And a lot of people will. A lot of friends especially. Right. They'll go into go mode right away. Yes, they'll go into go mode and like, okay, cool, let's do this, let's do that, let's do this, let's do that.
Toliy [00:32:42]:
Yeah.
Eldar [00:32:42]:
And what happens is, right. They're almost putting their friendship on the line and saying, okay, cool, I'll do this, this, this, and the third 1, 2, 3, 4. But you got to meet me. 1, 2, 3, 4, and if the other person only meets one and it doesn't do the 2, 3, and 4, what happens is. Right. The individual that's actually helping starts to feel a level of resentment.
Toliy [00:33:00]:
Yeah, it definitely.
Eldar [00:33:01]:
But the other person is not. Is not pulling their weight. But again, it's. I mean, it's. It's blind leading the blind here.
Toliy [00:33:08]:
Yeah, it definitely. It definitely pisses me off, especially when I'm in those scenarios. But, like, I like your method when, like, somebody asks you for help or like, you know, like, let's say I ask you for help. Right. Like, you will put me through a million loops to, like, to gauge the situation.
Eldar [00:33:29]:
Well, there's a recent phenomenon because you evolved.
Toliy [00:33:32]:
Yeah.
Eldar [00:33:32]:
You know what I'm saying? You evolved. So I also had to evolve because you've been able to trick me for quite some time. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? So I had to also change my technique because I realized, like, okay, cool. Like, he knows what to do. He likes the padding and stuff like that. And that kind of gets him over, but nothing really changes.
Mike [00:33:49]:
Damn.
Eldar [00:33:49]:
You know what I'm saying? There's no real change. So now we've upgraded. Now I know what he's doing. I know he's lying to me. Complain line, right to me. That's how I call it now. Right. He has thicker skin now that's what I can call that.
Eldar [00:34:01]:
You know what I mean? So then, yeah, I put him through those loops to see whether or not he's for real. And most of the time, you're not.
Toliy [00:34:08]:
No, I'm not. Yeah.
Eldar [00:34:08]:
You know, you're not about that life. So what are we talking about? So what I do is I give you the remedy of time. Throw the time at it.
Toliy [00:34:15]:
Yeah.
Eldar [00:34:15]:
And, like, he forgets it, you know, Memory and time.
Toliy [00:34:19]:
No, but I also know that, like. Yeah, it makes me angry in the moment, I'm not.
Eldar [00:34:23]:
Yeah.
Toliy [00:34:23]:
Getting what I want. But, yeah, I mean, I agree with that. When I'm in that mode, that it is effective in kind of seeing what's going on here. And if I'm willing to jump through the hoops and continue it.
Eldar [00:34:35]:
Yeah.
Toliy [00:34:35]:
I'm guessing that you'll see that I'm for real.
Eldar [00:34:37]:
Yeah, of course. Yeah, of course.
Toliy [00:34:40]:
Yeah. But in the moment, it definitely makes, like, the person who's trying to trick or.
Eldar [00:34:48]:
I think that that's part of getting to know each other. That's a very important part when it comes to helping and getting help to understand what you're dealing with. The subject. That's Getting the help.
Mike [00:34:57]:
Yeah.
Eldar [00:34:58]:
You know what I mean? And the person who's given the help, you have to know one another and how it works so you could be compatible in order for it. For the help to be gotten. You know what I'm saying? And I think a lot of times it's not even the help. If you just discuss help and what it is, the person who's helping is not doing anything special, I would say, but allowing the other person to get to know themselves. That's it. That's how I would put it. You know what I'm saying?
Mike [00:35:29]:
Yeah. Okay.
Eldar [00:35:31]:
You know, that's it. You know? Yeah.
Toliy [00:35:34]:
But I think creating that environment for that, for that to happen.
Eldar [00:35:37]:
Yeah.
Toliy [00:35:37]:
Can scare the other individual.
Eldar [00:35:39]:
Yeah. Yeah. And it's difficult to do.
Toliy [00:35:41]:
Yeah, yeah. I think people underestimate how many times when somebody asks for help or complaints with something, they are actually want a predetermined reaction from you based on what? Like, they're asking for. Like, I don't. Like, like, they, they want it to be like, coded already. Like, they're coming into it thinking that this is what's going to happen.
Mike [00:36:02]:
They're assuming that.
Toliy [00:36:03]:
Yeah.
Mike [00:36:04]:
They know what's best for them.
Toliy [00:36:05]:
Yeah.
Mike [00:36:05]:
To help them to get there.
Toliy [00:36:07]:
Yeah. Like, like I agree with that, Mike. Yeah. Like, like, I don't know, let's say, like. Yeah. Like in any, almost any of these kinds of scenarios, somebody wants. Somebody's asking in a way to get a predetermined response until they meet somebody who's not going to give it to them, which either, like, makes them want to avoid that person or it does the opposite. Makes them more curious.
Eldar [00:36:39]:
Yeah. Yeah.
Mike [00:36:42]:
But I think that's more rarity.
Toliy [00:36:43]:
Right.
Mike [00:36:44]:
The curiousness.
Toliy [00:36:45]:
Yeah. Like if someone says something and they already kind of give the reply to it. Like, I don't know, like, if you, if you answer in a very nonchalant way, it might be like, wait, this person is not doing what I was expecting.
Eldar [00:37:00]:
Yeah.
Toliy [00:37:00]:
So that could either go one way or another. It's either like, yo, fuck this person. Right.
Eldar [00:37:06]:
Yeah.
Toliy [00:37:06]:
Or to the, like, wait, why are they, why are they just replying in that kind of way?
Eldar [00:37:11]:
Correct.
Toliy [00:37:12]:
Like, Right. It's. It's the same way. It's like if you have anxious people and they're doing something anxious, they want you to cut, like to do something in an actual way. And if you're doing in a completely, like, stone cold.
Mike [00:37:24]:
Yeah.
Toliy [00:37:24]:
Chilling way, they're almost like, you know what's happening?
Eldar [00:37:27]:
There's a fire right there. Yeah. I mean, that. Reacting.
Toliy [00:37:30]:
Yeah. Yeah. So I think that people who truly want to learn will ask. Will ask some questions and maybe become more curious as to what's, like, happening here.
Eldar [00:37:39]:
Mm.
Toliy [00:37:40]:
Right. Or they're want to run. To run away from that person at all costs.
Eldar [00:37:44]:
At all costs. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Toliy [00:37:47]:
Like, I've had plenty of scenarios where I hear a complaint, you know, especially, like in my family and stuff, and I will try to impose my will.
Eldar [00:37:56]:
Oh, you actually do? Yeah.
Toliy [00:37:58]:
I mean. I mean, like, not.
Eldar [00:37:59]:
Not.
Toliy [00:38:00]:
Not so much as of late, obviously.
Eldar [00:38:01]:
Bother. Yeah, more.
Toliy [00:38:02]:
More before. Like, I would do anything I can to impose my will, thinking that, like, okay, like, these are basic problems and I have solutions for these. Like, what. What's the issue?
Eldar [00:38:14]:
So would you call yourself a philosopher bully?
Toliy [00:38:18]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So. Yeah, so that. But I've also tried to learn in certain scenarios where it's like, the thing is that for a long time I was not okay with suffering.
Eldar [00:38:29]:
Mm.
Toliy [00:38:30]:
Not for myself, but I was not okay with suffering happening. Like on my watch.
Eldar [00:38:35]:
Oh.
Toliy [00:38:36]:
I felt like that that was a bad thing. And I felt that like. Like this cannot be done. Like. Like, like stuff.
Eldar [00:38:42]:
But now that. Now. Now. Now what? You know, right now that you. I think that you grown and you understood the topic a little bit better, would you say it's actually suffering that you're watching?
Toliy [00:38:54]:
The. The problem is. I know that, like. Yeah, it's sometimes known. Sometimes, yes. But a lot of times, no. But it's interpreted in different ways.
Eldar [00:39:04]:
When do you actually. Right now, like, see actual suffering? Can you come up with an actual example? Like, if I asked you maybe a year ago, you show me a different. Like, my dad's doing this, my mom's doing this, my sister's doing this. Right now that. Is there actual real suffering going on or no?
Toliy [00:39:19]:
Yeah, I mean, it's hard to. It's hard to like, almost admit it, but if they're. Yeah. I mean, if these people are like, are we saying that. That suffering doesn't exist if a person is not ready for actionable change, but.
Eldar [00:39:35]:
Pretty sure they still suffer? But like, the type of suffering where, like. Like where we're discussing now is ready for action, Right. Like, ready to do something?
Toliy [00:39:41]:
Yeah. That type of suffering is like the less than 1% of situations.
Eldar [00:39:47]:
There you go.
Toliy [00:39:47]:
And the problem was that when I was part of those situations.
Eldar [00:39:51]:
Yeah.
Toliy [00:39:51]:
I would feel the suffering myself, thinking that this is how they are feeling it at the. At the moment. How I would feel this right now.
Eldar [00:39:59]:
Yeah.
Toliy [00:40:00]:
Right. And when I would see that it would be like, my eyes would get red. I'd be like, no, it's not happening like that. And then I would try to impose myself, but then obviously, like, in a.
Mike [00:40:14]:
Gremlin way, didn't work.
Eldar [00:40:16]:
Yeah. Can you give us a real life example of what you used to do?
Toliy [00:40:22]:
Yeah.
Mike [00:40:22]:
You used to hit your mom with. With the text thing that you roll the dough.
Eldar [00:40:26]:
Yeah. The roller.
Toliy [00:40:28]:
Yeah. Yeah. So, like. Yeah, those methods don't work. And you kind of have to, I think, examine that and see that, like, yes, they might be suffering, but it is important for them to go through their process.
Eldar [00:40:44]:
Yeah.
Toliy [00:40:45]:
Because, like. Like, yeah. The. The. The answers, I feel like, to any of. Any. Any of the stuff that we talk about, like, the answers, I think, are the very, very easy part.
Eldar [00:40:55]:
You know, that's interesting.
Toliy [00:40:56]:
The answers are the extremely easy part. Right. All of us here have answers for each other.
Eldar [00:41:01]:
Yeah.
Mike [00:41:02]:
Right.
Toliy [00:41:02]:
Of how our lives can improve or how we can solve problems. Like I said, there's not one problem here, so we don't know. But I think the harder thing is finding the right point where, like. Or in general. I think the hardest part is getting to a right point where you can take that information and begin to take action, be effective. Yeah.
Mike [00:41:29]:
So then is that thing not really a problem if you're not.
Eldar [00:41:33]:
Well, that's what I was asking on it.
Toliy [00:41:34]:
Well, that's the thing is that it's really suffering if.
Mike [00:41:38]:
You know.
Toliy [00:41:38]:
Yeah. I think that it's like a. Like a paradox here. The person with the problem is always looking for a solution.
Eldar [00:41:44]:
Mm.
Toliy [00:41:44]:
They're looking for the answer.
Eldar [00:41:46]:
Yeah.
Toliy [00:41:47]:
But what they. What they need to do is not search for the answers that they need to find a way for them to be humble enough to. To receive an answer. Like, you don't have to go anywhere. But the person who has a problem feels that they only need to find the answer.
Eldar [00:42:02]:
That.
Toliy [00:42:03]:
That. That's the hard part. Right. Is that, like, when you have a pro problem, you feel that, like, you need an answer to this problem problem. You don't say that they're like, you need to find a way to get into such. Get. Get into a scenario where you could be humble.
Eldar [00:42:18]:
Yeah. Yes. But the reason why that is is usually because people are already operating out of the wrong impression. Correct.
Toliy [00:42:24]:
Well, that's the point, is that their impression is that I have everything else except the answer.
Mike [00:42:29]:
Yes.
Eldar [00:42:29]:
So I need to solve this problem in order to continue with my life. And they have goals and ambitions and everything else that they need to solve. Right. So when they come to you and say, hey, I have a problem A. Yeah. Can you. I need to solve this problem A so I can continue on my journey. You're like, wait a second.
Eldar [00:42:43]:
This problem A doesn't exist. You actually have problem B. And they're like, no, no, no. What are you talking about? Like, I have no time for that. I have no time for that. I need to solve A. Please help me with this.
Mike [00:42:54]:
A lot of times people want to solve the back end.
Eldar [00:42:56]:
So understand. And that's right.
Toliy [00:42:59]:
No, not the back. No. They only want to solve the only end.
Eldar [00:43:02]:
I mean, imagine a person on the journey.
Mike [00:43:03]:
Sorry, the front end.
Eldar [00:43:04]:
Yeah, yeah. Imagine the person's on some kind of a journey. Right. They're going to. I don't know, man. Yeah. They go into the supermarket that's five miles away. You know what I mean? And they need to get there in 10 minutes.
Eldar [00:43:16]:
And the car breaks right. On that journey, and they come to you and they're like, yo, Mike, I need the tires fixed. Tires are flat. You know what I mean?
Mike [00:43:24]:
Yeah.
Eldar [00:43:24]:
I need to get to the thing. This is this. You know, they're gonna get whatever done. They're gonna buy groceries or whatever. You realize you look at the thing, you're like, okay, cool. You know what I mean? Like, that's not the problem you have here. The actual problem is that there's no more supermarket. It burned down or whatever, some other crazy shit.
Eldar [00:43:41]:
You know what I mean? You know this.
Mike [00:43:43]:
Yeah.
Eldar [00:43:43]:
They don't want to hear that. They don't want to hear that. Like, look, bro, like, you don't. Don't even go there. Don't even go to the supermarket 10 miles away. You have something else to work on. You know, nobody's trying to hear that because they have a goal to go to the supermarket and buy their groceries or whatever, you know, so they can be under a completely wrong impression.
Mike [00:43:58]:
Yeah.
Eldar [00:43:58]:
Trying to solve an issue that they. They need to solve in order to get their destination. And sometimes that's what totally. Sometimes had a problem with where I'm like, okay, cool. Let's solve this problem for you.
Mike [00:44:07]:
Yeah.
Eldar [00:44:07]:
And we'll send you out packing just to you. For you to find out that the supermarket no longer exists. And you get there, you're like, ah, okay.
Mike [00:44:16]:
Yeah. So it's funny you're saying. But also had another thing.
Eldar [00:44:21]:
Yeah.
Mike [00:44:23]:
I think. I think Socrates is called principles. First principles.
Eldar [00:44:25]:
Mm.
Mike [00:44:26]:
You know about this Prince? The first principles thing?
Eldar [00:44:28]:
Like the Elon Musk one?
Mike [00:44:29]:
Yeah. That's where he got it. From. He got it from Socrates.
Eldar [00:44:31]:
Uh huh. Yeah.
Mike [00:44:32]:
And he said, you know, Elon Musk was saying, like people when they start to sell problems.
Eldar [00:44:38]:
Mm.
Mike [00:44:39]:
They don't really get to the problem to the core. Core. Core.
Eldar [00:44:42]:
Mm.
Mike [00:44:43]:
They just want to solve. Like. Like, for example, you have a problem with your brakes.
Eldar [00:44:46]:
Yeah.
Mike [00:44:46]:
If I change your brakes, it's not gonna solve the problem that the way.
Eldar [00:44:49]:
I drive is wrong.
Mike [00:44:50]:
The way you drive is wrong. Right. Or you have another thing that affects the brake.
Eldar [00:44:54]:
Right.
Mike [00:44:54]:
From burning out.
Eldar [00:44:56]:
Yes.
Mike [00:44:56]:
So I think a lot of the.
Eldar [00:44:57]:
Time he wants to get to the core of it and start from the.
Mike [00:45:00]:
Because a lot of the times the problem that you're having is actually a result of an or byproduct of maybe, you know, two, three levels before that corrupt actual product.
Eldar [00:45:11]:
Correct. You know, and that's why sometimes in the friendships and stuff like that, where you see that the person is. He's not listening. He has an attachment or desire to get to the supermarket at any means. You know what I mean? So if you're not helping them inflate those tires or fix that tire. You know what I mean? Even though you know that the supermarket is burned down and it's closed, it's not working, there's nothing there.
Mike [00:45:35]:
So what should you do? Should you fix the tire?
Eldar [00:45:36]:
Fix the tire then because the person's desire is so strong to continue.
Toliy [00:45:42]:
Yeah. I think find it on their own. I think that part of that process, like buying into actually doing that, I think proves or disproves your attachment to help for yourself or for that other person. Well, yeah, I think that if you have an attachment for yourself to do something good, for example, maybe for more selfish reasons, like you're gonna try to talk him out of this tire and try to like.
Eldar [00:46:13]:
Yeah.
Toliy [00:46:14]:
Tell them about the supermarket.
Eldar [00:46:15]:
Yeah.
Toliy [00:46:15]:
I think that, that, that more is you bringing your own selfish reasons of helping.
Eldar [00:46:20]:
Yeah.
Toliy [00:46:20]:
But if your reason.
Eldar [00:46:21]:
Because if you value time, for example. Right. If you a guy that's all about time. I'm all about time efficiency. You know what I mean? Like, this is the most important thing and I love time efficiency. So if you come into me with a problem like, yo, I need to fix this thing, so I'll go over there, waste an hour or whatever. I'm thinking like, you're gonna waste an hour just to find out that the, that the market is closed, what's wrong with you? So if I'm attached to time. Yes.
Eldar [00:46:42]:
I will be trying to push my agenda on it. So when the person doesn't take my thing, I'm gonna be upset.
Mike [00:46:47]:
You know what I mean?
Eldar [00:46:48]:
So he's right. Yeah.
Toliy [00:46:49]:
Like, selfless help is that if they're coming to you for that help, Right? Yeah. You fix their tire, and then you kind of get there and you have to sit tight until they come back. They come back.
Eldar [00:47:01]:
They come back.
Mike [00:47:02]:
Yeah, they come back and they're like.
Eldar [00:47:03]:
Yeah, you know, I should have listened to you. You know what I mean?
Toliy [00:47:06]:
So, for example, if this is.
Eldar [00:47:08]:
And that, I think in that right there, totally, that builds credibility for the individual that has the answer. Okay, Remember you said, like, yo, like, some of the ways, like you said, the reason why the other individual is not listening or whatever is because they see you not competent in those areas. Right. In this example I'm bringing up with the supermarket, that individual will start building slowly credibility and trust that, like, hey, his word means something. Like, he said the burned down, and I don't believe him. You know what I mean? And slowly, as you accumulate those things and that person slowly understands, like, okay, cool. Like, this guy's not gonna lie to me. He has no reason to lie to me.
Eldar [00:47:44]:
Doesn't have a horse in a race. You know what I mean? Then you start listening a little bit more. So the next time, you'll evaluate that which you heard, which is the truth. Obviously, you didn't just pick yourself up and kept going. You actually examined it.
Toliy [00:47:57]:
How do you think that? I guess, like, society or stuff evolved to a place where, like, plain text does. Doesn't exist.
Eldar [00:48:05]:
Plain what?
Toliy [00:48:06]:
Like, plain words and plain text.
Eldar [00:48:08]:
I'm not sure what the kind of questions are like.
Toliy [00:48:10]:
Like, what do you think happened in society as a whole? Where it's like, I tell you, like, hey, Elder.
Eldar [00:48:16]:
Mm.
Mike [00:48:16]:
I'll be right back.
Toliy [00:48:17]:
I'm gonna go fix this and fix that.
Eldar [00:48:20]:
Mm.
Toliy [00:48:20]:
And I'll be back in two hours. Yeah, and in that two hour Spanish, fix those things. I do all that, and I come back on time.
Eldar [00:48:28]:
Oh, so, like, in your word, you mean.
Toliy [00:48:30]:
Well, like, keeping your word and using more plain things. Like, I'd like some help, and that actually means I'd like some help. Like, so, like, I'm talking about, like, plain text, where it's like, there's no, like, opportunities for confusion as, like, a society of, like, whatever. What everything everyone says is what actually is.
Eldar [00:48:50]:
No, but I don't think it's what happened. I think that we're just developing into it. We just developing into learning the language and trying to understand how to use language in a proper way.
Toliy [00:49:00]:
No, but I'm saying, is that, like, what happened to us using language, like, was language.
Eldar [00:49:07]:
Are you assuming that the thing is, the way you're posing the questions, you're assuming that it was better before?
Toliy [00:49:12]:
Well, I'm not sure if it was, like, better. Yeah, I said I did think that it was better before, but if it was not, my question is that, like, why did that either? Like, do you believe that existed at one point or not?
Eldar [00:49:26]:
I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I would like to think so. However. Yeah, I'm also looking at the state of the world, right? I see a lot of progress on one end, but I see a lot of issues on the other hand, right, where we have electric cars that drive themselves, but we also have a nut in as a president who's ready to blow up the whole world as well. You know what I mean? So we have polar opposite situation going on. So I'm not sure. You know what I mean? I'd like to think so, but then I would say, why is it lost? But is it lost then? You know, there's so many questions around.
Toliy [00:50:02]:
Like, yeah, like, my question is that, like. Yeah. Was there then a time or if, like. Like, why does it not exist now? Where it's just like. Because, like, a lot of these things, I think in general, like, conflicts, problems, all that, they stem from miscommunication.
Eldar [00:50:19]:
I agree with you.
Toliy [00:50:20]:
But then, like, how. How did miscommunic. Like, how did it come to a point where there was even possibility for miscommunication? Like, how did it. Like, how did it steer away from, like, okay, like. Yeah, like, everybody keeping their word at all times. And that is just a reality of, like, the. Like, the area or, like, the place.
Eldar [00:50:39]:
The problem is people have a lot. People inflicted by a lot of desires, I think, that are outside of the desire of communicating properly. You know what I'm saying? Like, you don't wake up and say, you know what? I can't wait to communicate properly today. Yeah, like, right, Mike, do you wake up like that? Like, I can't wait to use the proper language in order not to confuse anybody today. Or I'd like to use language in such a way where I'm gonna put a smile on people's faces. Like, people don't wake up like that. People don't say that.
Toliy [00:51:10]:
No, I know, but, like, what I'm.
Eldar [00:51:12]:
Saying is that we have other desires. We have a desire. You know what? I have a desire to acquire this particular thing. And in order for me to acquire that particular Thing. I gotta bend these words a little bit.
Toliy [00:51:22]:
No, I know, but, like, confuse somebody.
Mike [00:51:24]:
Why? I think. I think. I think it's because we have free will to do good, bad, or whatever you want to call it. We. I think we've always had that. Then people just chose what they felt. You know, maybe they got the most pleasure from chasing those desires, like, you know, those good feelings.
Toliy [00:51:41]:
So do you think someone down the line realized that I can intentionally use miscommunication to fulfill a desire?
Eldar [00:51:50]:
I'm worried about that intentional part. Intentionally, not sure thing.
Mike [00:51:54]:
They discovered, like.
Eldar [00:51:56]:
Yeah, I think the individual who is sick with a desire does not intentionally then chooses that. Right. I think it's subconsciously they're following the deeds of a desire in their brains in that moment or in that, you.
Toliy [00:52:07]:
Know, and then it became where they knew that it was possible to summon this right to those intentionally.
Eldar [00:52:13]:
And then you become a liar. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Toliy [00:52:15]:
Like someone but. But had to realize that, like. Okay, like, I can say that like.
Eldar [00:52:21]:
In order to get.
Toliy [00:52:22]:
Everyone says that. Hey, how long did you park here for it? Two hours. Okay, so you pay $10. Someone realizes, like, I can just say one hour.
Mike [00:52:30]:
Yeah.
Toliy [00:52:30]:
And people pay $5 even though I stayed for three.
Eldar [00:52:33]:
Yeah, correct.
Toliy [00:52:34]:
You think someone said that accidentally and realize, like, oh, like, I don't know.
Eldar [00:52:39]:
Which one came first?
Toliy [00:52:40]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because it's like, for miscommunication to happen, there had to be a world of communication, right? Like, proper communication, proper speech, proper expression. Right.
Mike [00:52:54]:
I don't know. Is it required to be that?
Eldar [00:52:58]:
I don't know.
Mike [00:52:59]:
I'm not sure.
Toliy [00:53:00]:
Yeah. Unless you're saying that things were right away learned, like, like that way.
Eldar [00:53:05]:
You know, I still think that we as humanity, I think, are trying to learn this. This thing, language and the communications in order to be able to communicate better so we can have better lives and stuff.
Toliy [00:53:15]:
So.
Eldar [00:53:15]:
Right. So then as we have, you know, people that lie, people that don't, people that value honestly that some people that don't. You know what I mean?
Toliy [00:53:21]:
So then, do you. Do you think that proper communication was never a thing and we're still in the process of figuring it out, or.
Eldar [00:53:31]:
Do you think that by proper thing for what the whole society or individuals, like, we have. We had Socrates 2000 years ago, the whole society. No, I don't think.
Toliy [00:53:42]:
Do you think that there was a point where there was proper communication and it went sour? Or do you think that there was never proper communication?
Eldar [00:53:49]:
See, I think proper communication exists outside of probably people broke. How about that? It's logic, right. It's reason, it's math. It probably lives outside of us.
Toliy [00:53:58]:
But do you think that, that, that people were at a point where they had. That is what I'm asking. Or do you think that they were never there?
Mike [00:54:03]:
People are striving to not a civilization that we know slowly. Right. There was always like the one guy, Socrates, for example.
Eldar [00:54:09]:
No, there's a lot of guys. Yeah, but a lot of guys.
Mike [00:54:12]:
A lot of guys who strive not in a mass, not in the mass. No, no, there was like the Socrates, the Plato's. Right. Those people that live in those generations.
Toliy [00:54:20]:
No, but like even before that, like what Was there a world where there was proper communication that, that went sour?
Mike [00:54:27]:
I don't know.
Toliy [00:54:27]:
But if you had to.
Eldar [00:54:28]:
What do you mean sour? How can that be? How can that. No, like, no, no, I would say no. How can you have a proper communication society and go sour? Those, those two don't work.
Toliy [00:54:38]:
I, I, I think that.
Eldar [00:54:39]:
Who made it sour?
Toliy [00:54:40]:
Well, I think that desires could, could have slowly over time.
Eldar [00:54:43]:
No, but then you're talking about. Yeah, but then you're talking about, you know, a sickness of some sort. So.
Mike [00:54:51]:
Yeah. You say people were, went from being enlightenment to now, not only.
Eldar [00:54:57]:
No, that's impossible.
Mike [00:54:58]:
No.
Toliy [00:54:58]:
So it was always a situation of people trying to still. And people figure it out.
Mike [00:55:02]:
Yeah, yeah.
Eldar [00:55:03]:
I think people are, it's in development stages, right? I think we're in development. So I, you know, I think people.
Mike [00:55:08]:
Are trying to figure it out.
Eldar [00:55:09]:
Yeah, people are trying to figure out and they are figuring out throughout their lives.
Mike [00:55:12]:
Because all society has changed in such tremendous way. There's so many more people.
Eldar [00:55:16]:
There's progress too.
Mike [00:55:17]:
There is progress for sure. Yeah. But there's also a lot more people. So percentage wise, like. I don't know.
Eldar [00:55:22]:
Yeah, yeah.
Mike [00:55:22]:
Has the percentage of the society moved in the right direction as a whole?
Toliy [00:55:27]:
I don't know.
Mike [00:55:28]:
Probably.
Eldar [00:55:28]:
Why? What are you thinking?
Toliy [00:55:30]:
No, I'm not, I'm not sure. Just like I was more, Yeah, I guess that I was more assuming that there was a time where people like properly at some point communicated where like.
Eldar [00:55:45]:
Well, they do think about it.
Toliy [00:55:47]:
Maybe intentionally or unintentionally things went a particular way.
Mike [00:55:51]:
Yeah.
Toliy [00:55:51]:
And then certain people with certain desires used those things against society to then begin the, like the cycle of miscommunication.
Eldar [00:56:01]:
Well, how about this, right? I think in general, generally speaking, right. Because we're so advanced in technological standpoint, right. We had the tech, technology, technology, boom, right. There had to be a level of proper communication in order to get there. Right. Would you say that where people had to get together and kind of speak the same language, understand one another in order to get to a progress that we have today? Right?
Mike [00:56:25]:
Yeah. If you look, yeah. If you look at evolution. Right.
Eldar [00:56:28]:
Yeah, that's what I'm saying.
Mike [00:56:30]:
You know, we, first of all, we didn't even have a language. Right. People didn't know how to speak.
Eldar [00:56:34]:
Yeah.
Mike [00:56:35]:
Probably they were like, like trying to build the wheel. That's like you know, a thousand years ago. Whatever.
Eldar [00:56:39]:
Yeah, yeah.
Mike [00:56:40]:
So I think.
Eldar [00:56:41]:
Yeah, as we get. That's what I'm saying.
Mike [00:56:43]:
Yeah. What I'm.
Eldar [00:56:43]:
As we get together more and more people. Right. And communicate the same language. Right. We're able to have monumental changes in our society. Right. Electric cars, dry self driving cars, for example, iPhone, cell phones. Communication through quick communication.
Eldar [00:56:58]:
In that sense it's different.
Mike [00:57:00]:
But with every kind of stuff, there's also some that are like, you know.
Eldar [00:57:04]:
Yeah, the individual use it for the. Yeah, not so good because they're not educated yet.
Mike [00:57:09]:
Yeah.
Eldar [00:57:10]:
And how to use it properly.
Toliy [00:57:13]:
Okay.
Eldar [00:57:16]:
So yeah. So where do we drift from? We drew from the fact that. Yeah, I mean, yeah, it's, it's a. This is big. We didn't drift anywhere because communicate. If you're going back to the cave to trying to get other people out, you got to communicate properly. And totally mentioned that sometimes he wants to, he wants to help others not suffer anymore because he doesn't want to be on his watch, you know, he wants to force.
Toliy [00:57:38]:
But yeah, but I was also at that time assuming that there was suffering going on on the way that I'm understanding it and feel and feeling it, which is why I feel like I had to do something to do that.
Eldar [00:57:51]:
But then you found out.
Toliy [00:57:52]:
Yeah, when I realize that like the words that like these people are saying and stuff like that and like, you know, this does not add up with their, their, their desire to listen or to take particular actions to change.
Eldar [00:58:05]:
Actually.
Toliy [00:58:05]:
Yeah, I, I can see that they're not really suffering that bad.
Eldar [00:58:08]:
Okay, there you go.
Mike [00:58:10]:
You know, there you go.
Toliy [00:58:11]:
I mean same same for myself and you.
Eldar [00:58:12]:
And you've tried, right? You went down the line where laying down, you went down there where you went and asked questions and did things in such a way where like, okay, cool, like this is the way out.
Toliy [00:58:23]:
And they were like, yeah, I'm not at that time. And sometimes, I mean still now I have a bad relationship with time and I assume that these things need to get done asap. Yeah, that's How I felt is that, like, if we don't get on this, like, yeah, this is a waste. Like, this has to be done asap.
Eldar [00:58:44]:
Yeah.
Toliy [00:58:45]:
And for yourself.
Mike [00:58:46]:
For others. For others, but not for yourself.
Eldar [00:58:50]:
Probably for himself, too.
Toliy [00:58:52]:
What do you mean for myself?
Mike [00:58:53]:
Like, when you have a problem, do you feel like it has to get done right away?
Toliy [00:58:56]:
Oh, yeah, yeah. No, I'm talking about situations where, like, someone is, like, complaining or, like, potentially asking for help. And I feel that, like, this. Is this suffering happening, like, And I have, like. Yeah. I had the attachment also of time, this getting solved asap. So I also feel like that was probably felt by those people because it's like you're bringing up more things and going into more things than is being asked of you. Now, one of the reasons you're probably doing that is the attachment of time.
Eldar [00:59:34]:
Right.
Toliy [00:59:37]:
Why do you need to realize everything so fast?
Eldar [00:59:39]:
Yeah. Why did you think. Yeah, why did you think as a helper at that time, why did you feel like that's what needed to be done so fast? Like, why?
Toliy [00:59:48]:
Because I felt that, like, the person.
Mike [00:59:50]:
Who was coming made it sound like time is of the essence.
Eldar [00:59:53]:
They always do time sensitive.
Toliy [00:59:54]:
Well, no.
Mike [00:59:56]:
Always feel like it's emergency right away. Right now.
Toliy [00:59:59]:
No, I don't even think it's the person. I felt like. It was probably my understanding of, like. Like, I think it had to do more of, like, the way I felt that people were suffering versus what they were actually suffering. So because of that, I felt like you have to put a time attachment.
Mike [01:00:20]:
Yeah.
Toliy [01:00:21]:
To it.
Mike [01:00:22]:
Yeah.
Toliy [01:00:23]:
So now I need to impose.
Mike [01:00:25]:
Like, okay, tires bad.
Toliy [01:00:28]:
But also, I already know engines. Fucked up. Bruce fucked up. You know, stuff like that. I have to, like, right away unload this all.
Eldar [01:00:35]:
Yeah. Interesting.
Toliy [01:00:36]:
Because almost like, why wouldn't you want to, like, these things? Right? If they're all.
Eldar [01:00:45]:
You should get excited.
Toliy [01:00:46]:
Yeah. Like, why would you not want to fix all this?
Eldar [01:00:48]:
Yeah. No, no, no, no. But understandably, Right? But, like, imagine me, I'm a bodybuilder, okay? And I can lift 100 pounds. I can do it.
Toliy [01:00:59]:
Mm.
Eldar [01:00:59]:
You're not a bodybuilder. You're a toddler. You can't lift those hundred pounds. You can lift only £1. Yeah. There you go. Right? They can't lift that. Yeah, they cannot lift it.
Eldar [01:01:10]:
They're toddlers.
Toliy [01:01:11]:
Yeah.
Eldar [01:01:11]:
Right. So to you, it's like, come on, come on, let's get this done. This is easy. Like, look, I'm picking it up. Can't you see it? And they were like, wait, what you put time.
Mike [01:01:23]:
Because maybe you don't understand the.
Toliy [01:01:25]:
I didn't find value in the importance of those people going through a particular lesson.
Mike [01:01:31]:
No, because also you're not maybe seeing it that if I come to anybody with a problem, I'm clouded by emotion.
Eldar [01:01:41]:
See, I was thinking he was going to say something else. You know what I mean? Not. Not just respecting the process. I thought he was going to say, like, I wanted to be, in their eyes, a savior.
Mike [01:01:52]:
Oh.
Eldar [01:01:53]:
You know what I'm saying? We're like, I'll be the hero to get you out.
Mike [01:01:57]:
Okay.
Eldar [01:01:57]:
You know what I'm saying?
Mike [01:01:58]:
He does. Hero.
Toliy [01:02:00]:
No, no. I mean, I did. I didn't, like, feel like I got.
Eldar [01:02:03]:
This, like, follow me, you kind of thing. You know what I mean?
Mike [01:02:06]:
We think everybody wants to help other.
Eldar [01:02:08]:
People, at least I felt this thing from you a little bit, maybe a couple of times for, like, Oleg, somebody else, you know, like, you almost like an eager beaver. Like, I got this. You know what I mean?
Mike [01:02:20]:
And because for the person who's not in the problem.
Eldar [01:02:23]:
Yeah.
Mike [01:02:23]:
There. There's no emotional thing to cloud that judgment here.
Eldar [01:02:26]:
Yeah. No.
Mike [01:02:27]:
So for me to solve that problem, it's very easy.
Eldar [01:02:30]:
Yeah.
Mike [01:02:30]:
But I guess when. And that's why it's. You're like, yo, there's no. Nothing to do here. Just. Let's just do it.
Eldar [01:02:36]:
Yeah. But you will be being like, an eager beaver for. I feel like, for what? Right? For, like, almost like, to get like, a praise from them.
Mike [01:02:44]:
No, like, with all, like. No.
Eldar [01:02:47]:
You know, whoever was.
Mike [01:02:49]:
I was like, yo, I want to help my friend because I have a good life as a business owner. I enjoy the benefits of it.
Eldar [01:02:55]:
Yeah.
Mike [01:02:56]:
And I would like him to share it, too, you know, like a good life.
Eldar [01:03:00]:
Okay.
Mike [01:03:00]:
You know, do you.
Toliy [01:03:04]:
Do you think, for example, let's say in, like, a scenario where, like, someone's asking for help. Right. And you kind of know that, like, okay, like, they're asking for just A and B right now, but you already see A, B, C, D, E, F. Right. Do you think that. That you should ask, like, hey, do you want me to kind of be honest? Or do you think that you should only be fully honest like that if you are asked for it?
Eldar [01:03:32]:
I think you can do that as long as people understand where you're going to, you know, going towards what?
Toliy [01:03:38]:
Do, do, do what?
Eldar [01:03:39]:
Do that. What you just asked, like, hey, do you want me to be honest?
Toliy [01:03:42]:
But do you think that it's. It that you should ask that you can.
Eldar [01:03:45]:
Yeah. No process, no No, I think it's good.
Toliy [01:03:49]:
But nobody would say. Nobody would say no, Right.
Eldar [01:03:53]:
Yeah. But at least you can say I told you so later. Remember, like, you. You can set them up, you know?
Toliy [01:04:02]:
Yeah. Yes. That's what I try to do in sales.
Eldar [01:04:07]:
Yeah.
Toliy [01:04:07]:
Like, when I'm talking and you start saying stuff like, I always start off by saying, hey, is it okay if I ask you a few questions?
Eldar [01:04:14]:
Yeah. Yeah.
Toliy [01:04:14]:
And I know that I already know where this is gonna lead. When they get angry, they almost can't get so angry with me because, like, they gave me the green light to dig this shit up.
Eldar [01:04:24]:
Correct. Correct.
Toliy [01:04:25]:
You know?
Eldar [01:04:25]:
Correct. Mm. You said, hey, remember that warning I gave you?
Mike [01:04:31]:
Yeah.
Eldar [01:04:32]:
Right in the beginning.
Toliy [01:04:33]:
Yeah.
Eldar [01:04:33]:
Yeah.
Toliy [01:04:34]:
And see, like. Yeah, I didn't. Yeah. I didn't like how some of those scenarios, like, played out so much. Like, you know, for example, with Mike or, like. Like being looked as, like, the bad guy or other situations. But I guess, like. Yeah, my mindset was always like, this is super necessary.
Eldar [01:04:50]:
Mm.
Toliy [01:04:51]:
But I don't know. Yeah.
Mike [01:04:52]:
Me.
Eldar [01:04:53]:
What was super necessary? The punishment.
Toliy [01:04:55]:
No, like. Like, so I felt it was necessary for me to be honest and say those things that were potentially steps ahead as to what they were asking for. I felt that way at those times. I think that I justified that as.
Eldar [01:05:10]:
Like, listen, I personally think that there is space for that. There is definitely, you know, an important factor here, and to give you one where I think it is, is if a person is arrogant, sometimes you gotta shoot it down, you know? Sometimes you gotta get into a fight because then that person then sees it, like, directly, like, you know what I mean? Of what you're doing to them and stuff like that. And if it's. If it takes them a week, a month or whatever. Right. To go through those motions, to feel that out, then it is what it is.
Mike [01:05:48]:
Mm.
Eldar [01:05:49]:
You know, it is what it is. But I think it's. Sometimes it's necessary, you know?
Toliy [01:05:56]:
Yeah. Yeah. I mean.
Mike [01:05:57]:
I mean.
Eldar [01:05:58]:
I mean, you know, look at. You know, it could be a week with Mike or it could be a year with Nate, for example. Right. I said the same thing. Like, yo, look, you know, this is what it is. I shot it down, said what it is, and gigs up youp know what I mean? If he never comes around. Never comes around. He comes around, great.
Eldar [01:06:14]:
We'll be on the same page. You know what I mean? But sometimes it's. I think it's necessary.
Mike [01:06:20]:
Yeah. They're always. I think there is. It's important to have a good cop in A bad cop, which you guys.
Eldar [01:06:24]:
Yeah, yeah.
Mike [01:06:25]:
Oh, there's like the good cop and totally the backup. I think they're both important.
Eldar [01:06:29]:
Yeah, I'm just disguised as a. Yeah, you're disguised. You know what I'm saying?
Mike [01:06:32]:
Yeah.
Eldar [01:06:33]:
For the moment being. But I can be a very.
Mike [01:06:35]:
I don't think he told you. The bad cop. I think he just.
Eldar [01:06:37]:
He's actually the good cop. Disguise as a backup.
Mike [01:06:38]:
Yeah.
Eldar [01:06:39]:
It's different.
Mike [01:06:40]:
Yeah.
Eldar [01:06:40]:
You know what I mean? That's a funny.
Mike [01:06:42]:
But it's good to get a dose of both.
Eldar [01:06:44]:
Yeah.
Mike [01:06:45]:
In retrospect, you know, for sure.
Eldar [01:06:46]:
Yeah. His pain is like, you know, his pain is right now. And it's in your face. It's right here.
Mike [01:06:53]:
Yeah.
Eldar [01:06:53]:
My pain is somewhere down the line. You won't see it. It's a crow. It's gonna slap you in the face. When you. When you're not. Like, when you're not expecting. Tony's like, yo, he's standing right there.
Eldar [01:07:03]:
He's standing right there. I'm like, no, you just go. I'm gonna just leave you. When you're eating cookies and stuff like that, when you're not looking, everything's great.
Mike [01:07:11]:
Boom.
Eldar [01:07:11]:
Yeah. When you look.
Toliy [01:07:14]:
At. There's like spells that people cast.
Eldar [01:07:17]:
Yeah.
Toliy [01:07:17]:
That inflict like, let's say a thousand damage right away.
Eldar [01:07:21]:
Mm.
Toliy [01:07:22]:
And it's just like a boom blast. But then there's something called dots, which is damage over time of abilities that you cast a spell, and over 25 seconds, it does 3,000 damage.
Eldar [01:07:33]:
Okay.
Toliy [01:07:33]:
So I feel like you. You can cast like more dots where it's like it's gonna.
Eldar [01:07:37]:
Yeah.
Toliy [01:07:38]:
Over time, like, it's gonna keep ticking and keep.
Mike [01:07:40]:
Keep.
Toliy [01:07:40]:
Keep ticking.
Eldar [01:07:41]:
Yeah.
Toliy [01:07:42]:
Versus, like, right away.
Eldar [01:07:45]:
You know, if I can, I'd like to save the relationship, obviously. But if it's not possible, then it's not possible. You know what I mean? So.
Toliy [01:07:58]:
Yeah. And I also feel that, like, the. The ability to detach in that kind of way or like. Or not. Or not detach are like displays of like, proper, like, emotional systems versus not proper, like, emotional systems too.
Eldar [01:08:19]:
Yeah.
Toliy [01:08:20]:
And sometimes those non proper emotional systems definitely can get you into a trouble.
Eldar [01:08:28]:
Yeah, they can, but they're like. We discussed the emotions and those emotional systems and stuff from the last podcast. You know, we came to conclusion that those are the crumbs that are gonna get you to a place where your perception is probably wrong. Right.
Mike [01:08:41]:
Mm.
Eldar [01:08:42]:
And you can find out and actually treat yourself. Then you're those improper emotions. You know what I mean? Yeah. But yeah, ultimately you would like to have a healthy attachment to things and not attachments of things and stuff like that, for sure. In order to, you know. Yeah, but in order to do that, you have to actually believe your own shit. Remember, Mike? Yeah. You got to believe your own stuff.
Eldar [01:09:05]:
So then you don't hold attachments to the individuals that come into your life, right. And you are sucking them dry for, you know, for a little bit of happiness or whatever, you know, for them to validate you or whatever it is. You know, I'm talking about girls and stuff like that. You know what I mean? You don't need them. No, I'm with you. Is because it happens to be nicer together. It's great. But don't get it twisted.
Eldar [01:09:26]:
If we're not together, I'm gonna be all right. You know what I mean? And that's the attitude, you know.
Mike [01:09:30]:
Yeah.
Eldar [01:09:30]:
I'd like for everybody to have. So then when those two types of individuals come together, right? That's on their shit and their P's and Q's, they know the. It's gonna be an explosive explosion. Love. Right. Yeah.
Toliy [01:09:41]:
See, I feel like. Like I agree with what. What you're saying, but I feel. I see from a different angle why individuals may not bite into that is. I feel that like. Like what you're saying, like it's a truth and it's the right way, I think, to go about things. But I think that it sounds a little bit. I think for some individuals, let's say if they're more like driven by, like, false perceptions, emotions, let's say, right.
Toliy [01:10:15]:
They almost view that as. I like, the way you're coming across is that, like, you're closed off and you. And you may not fully feel that great. Like a moment.
Mike [01:10:25]:
Yeah, we're not going around saying that.
Toliy [01:10:27]:
No.
Eldar [01:10:28]:
Yeah.
Toliy [01:10:28]:
No.
Mike [01:10:28]:
First of all.
Eldar [01:10:29]:
First of all, I'm not going around saying that. Right.
Toliy [01:10:31]:
No, no, I know, but I'm saying. Is that, like, when. When you're saying that way, is that like. Like. Yeah, part of it sounds a bit mean to those individuals.
Mike [01:10:42]:
I think it's individuals.
Toliy [01:10:44]:
No, no, no. Not the individuals. Not.
Eldar [01:10:46]:
You're acting according.
Toliy [01:10:47]:
No, not those.
Eldar [01:10:48]:
Not as if, Mike. Not as if. Don't this up, Mike. You gotta be it. You can't access it, my man.
Mike [01:10:56]:
Bad.
Toliy [01:10:56]:
But that's. What the hell.
Eldar [01:10:57]:
Yeah, no, I'm not talking about Mike. You have to be that. And then you just. You just show that energy. Sorry. It's important.
Toliy [01:11:08]:
But you're acting like. As if you're not. You're gonna gear up to go all the way up to the top.
Eldar [01:11:16]:
Yeah.
Mike [01:11:16]:
To be full of communication is bad.
Eldar [01:11:21]:
Yes.
Mike [01:11:21]:
My communication is bad.
Eldar [01:11:22]:
Yeah.
Mike [01:11:23]:
Fine. Yeah.
Eldar [01:11:23]:
But we're on the same page.
Toliy [01:11:24]:
Yeah. No, I was saying is that when you're talking to that.
Eldar [01:11:27]:
Yeah.
Toliy [01:11:27]:
To Mike, like, the emotion I. I feel. I mean, at least a bit from, like, Mike's side.
Eldar [01:11:32]:
Yeah.
Toliy [01:11:32]:
Is that it's coming across as if, like, you could potentially be closed off to who.
Mike [01:11:38]:
Wait, you said, I feel it's close.
Toliy [01:11:40]:
Like, am I close to him?
Eldar [01:11:41]:
Or you even talk about the girl that's gonna be.
Toliy [01:11:43]:
No, I feel like, what you're, like, in the moment, like. Okay, so I agree that it's correct. All right.
Eldar [01:11:49]:
Okay, cool.
Mike [01:11:49]:
All right.
Toliy [01:11:50]:
I'm saying that when you're talking about it to Mike and I. And I see Mike trying to learn it, I feel like one of the things that doesn't potentially sit well with Mike. Right. Is that it comes across as a little bit like. Of like, a I'm not emotionally sensitive approach or not like a.
Mike [01:12:14]:
Were you getting that from me?
Eldar [01:12:15]:
Yeah, he's getting. Those are the vibes. Yeah. Are you feeling that way when I say it?
Mike [01:12:19]:
I mean, if he's communicating the proper words to me.
Eldar [01:12:22]:
Yeah.
Mike [01:12:22]:
I don't feel like that at all. No.
Toliy [01:12:24]:
Yeah.
Mike [01:12:24]:
So what are you feeling when you say this thing? Yeah, yeah, I'm trying to figure out how to get there.
Toliy [01:12:29]:
Yeah.
Mike [01:12:30]:
I'm trying to figure out.
Eldar [01:12:31]:
I'd like for him to, like.
Toliy [01:12:33]:
No, I know. I know. I know that he wants to get there, but, like, my. My, my, my, like, at least observation is that I feel that, like.
Eldar [01:12:44]:
Any guy or any girl that we're in a relationship where the other individual mopped the floor with them, didn't see their worth. Should hear this advice. Correct. Correct.
Toliy [01:12:57]:
Good shit, Arch.
Eldar [01:12:58]:
Yes. You know what I'm saying?
Toliy [01:12:59]:
No, no, I'm saying they should hear.
Eldar [01:13:01]:
That, like, yo, yeah, you have the stuff too. You have the magic. Unfortunately, you're just not comfortable yet in your own skin, in your own body, on your own whatever. Therefore, you're not showing that magic off into the world you have.
Toliy [01:13:14]:
I'm more saying, and your stuff is.
Eldar [01:13:15]:
What makes you you and what makes you happy. There's no other individual out in the world that can make you you.
Mike [01:13:22]:
It's you.
Toliy [01:13:23]:
Yeah.
Eldar [01:13:23]:
It's only you. You know what I'm saying? So if you find somebody who you're liking or you're attracted to, that togetherness can spark something more and extra. However Those two individuals have to be on the same page about that phenomenon. If they are, they're humble enough to raise each other up all the time, back and forth, you know, in different moments. They never, ever put themselves above one another. Like, I know some shit more than you, or you know some shit more than me. No, it's a humbling exchange, you know, that is rooted in humility and love, ultimately. But the two individuals have to have that sauce where they're like, yo, you ain't leaving me, because I'm the shit.
Eldar [01:14:05]:
And the other person's like, yeah, I'm the shit, too. And we on the same page. That's it. That's how I see it. So I don't know which part of it comes off as mean. It's supposed to come off as confident. Yeah. And, like, I don't give a fuck, because, like, you gotta know your shit.
Eldar [01:14:24]:
And I believe. I wholeheartedly believe at least the people in this room right now have that. Have that sauce. But they don't buy it as much as I buy it.
Mike [01:14:33]:
Yeah. Yeah.
Eldar [01:14:34]:
I put a lot more chips on the table for this.
Mike [01:14:36]:
Yeah.
Eldar [01:14:36]:
I'll go all in on this stuff. I'll go all in on you guys and what your qualities are.
Toliy [01:14:41]:
You know what I'm saying? Yes. I feel like you don't. Yeah.
Eldar [01:14:43]:
And that is what I'm saying. Crime you commit against yourself.
Toliy [01:14:45]:
Yeah. I. I just feel that there. There is, like, in the interaction, like, what. What I'm observing is that, like, I. I think that, like, the way that you're talking about it is like, a very, like, calculated, like. Here's what.
Eldar [01:15:02]:
Why am I talking about it this way? Totally. Because I believe it and I love it.
Toliy [01:15:05]:
I'm not saying that it's wrong.
Eldar [01:15:07]:
Yeah.
Toliy [01:15:07]:
I'm not saying that. I'm saying that, like, the way that I could potentially see it observed that, like another. Like the other individual, for example, if it's Mike in this case.
Eldar [01:15:17]:
Yeah.
Toliy [01:15:17]:
I feel like there's a part of it that's like a storybook situation.
Eldar [01:15:21]:
Yeah.
Toliy [01:15:22]:
That is not in that full control that you're talking about it.
Eldar [01:15:25]:
What do you mean?
Toliy [01:15:26]:
Like a. Like a magical kind of, like, world around, like.
Mike [01:15:30]:
No.
Toliy [01:15:30]:
Like. Like you don't have it.
Eldar [01:15:31]:
You believe this, Mike?
Toliy [01:15:32]:
No.
Mike [01:15:33]:
No.
Toliy [01:15:33]:
Part of it is like, you doing shit.
Eldar [01:15:35]:
Yeah.
Toliy [01:15:35]:
And part of it is like a magical storybook. Like a, like, moment where I feel like you're believing that you can fully create that. Like, you can fully control all of that, like, to the T. And I feel like Maybe. I don't know. I don't know if I'm right. The observation that I see is that I feel like Mike believes that he can control 90% of it, for example, and there's 10%. That is like a magical moment that is out of control.
Toliy [01:16:04]:
Like, that. That's what I see as.
Eldar [01:16:06]:
I don't understand. Yeah, you understand.
Mike [01:16:09]:
No, I wouldn't call it magical, but totally does like to use the magic stuff.
Toliy [01:16:12]:
Yeah.
Mike [01:16:14]:
One thing that I have been thinking about recently.
Eldar [01:16:16]:
Okay.
Mike [01:16:17]:
Now that we're, like, in a shifting set.
Eldar [01:16:19]:
We're not shifting anywhere. He's saying that you have a problem with this.
Mike [01:16:22]:
I definitely don't have a problem with what you're saying. I have a problem is how to get there. Yeah, but. Which I'm trying to understand that. Yeah, that's. Yeah, yeah, that. That.
Toliy [01:16:32]:
That's exactly what I'm saying. Is that the. The way in trying to get there. I feel like Elder is giving, like, the 100%. Like, this is the 100%. And I feel like you could potentially be buying into, like, not at 90.
Eldar [01:16:44]:
Well, that's because.
Mike [01:16:45]:
Wait, but how can you.
Eldar [01:16:47]:
But it's a problem.
Mike [01:16:47]:
You. Like if Eldar comes to you and gives you advice.
Toliy [01:16:51]:
Yeah.
Mike [01:16:52]:
How do you. You have to make your own. No, I can't just say, okay. Although I trust everything you say. I'm gonna beat all of a sudden Eldar.
Toliy [01:16:58]:
Well, it's not about making it your own. It's about, like, whether you act. Yeah, that. That's. That's what I'm saying. That there. There is a portion that's not understood and maybe interpret it for, like. Like a magic kind of thing.
Eldar [01:17:15]:
Is it.
Mike [01:17:16]:
You've been on the serious magic flow for past.
Eldar [01:17:19]:
Is it something like a miracle to you? And you know.
Mike [01:17:21]:
Okay, one thing I have been thinking about, it's kind of not. I don't know if it's related or not related, but I said it on last podcast.
Toliy [01:17:27]:
Agave nectar.
Mike [01:17:28]:
Yes. If you. I think I said something like, when you live a good life, good things.
Eldar [01:17:37]:
Yeah.
Mike [01:17:37]:
Continue to come into your life.
Eldar [01:17:39]:
Yeah.
Mike [01:17:39]:
I don't know if that's considered magic, but if you're. Like I said, if I was being a piece of shit, wanting to fall in love.
Eldar [01:17:44]:
Yeah.
Mike [01:17:44]:
That equation doesn't work. So now I feel like I'm becoming a better person.
Eldar [01:17:47]:
Yeah.
Mike [01:17:48]:
And I think better things will come into my life. Is that a magic thing?
Eldar [01:17:51]:
No, that's you being sneaky. You calculate in the future. But. Yes.
Mike [01:17:56]:
Yes.
Eldar [01:17:57]:
No, it's.
Mike [01:17:58]:
But But I mean, like more so, like.
Eldar [01:18:01]:
Yeah, I don't know.
Mike [01:18:02]:
I don't know how you want to call.
Eldar [01:18:03]:
Yeah.
Toliy [01:18:03]:
I just feel that like elders, elder gives a very direct, like very, very direct, like clear your are the hundred percent, like.
Mike [01:18:11]:
Yeah, but what you're saying right now is the whole reason we're having the conflict is where elders give me, let's say, quote, unquote, advice and you want.
Eldar [01:18:18]:
Me to, like, I'm not, I'm not even giving advice. Yeah, you're just saying how it is.
Mike [01:18:21]:
Yeah, but that's why I said quote, unquote. It's like you come to say what it is.
Eldar [01:18:24]:
Yeah.
Mike [01:18:24]:
Advice of how I should be, for example. Right. As a person.
Eldar [01:18:28]:
No, you. No, I'm not saying that if you, if you are looking for love, you want to be in a relationship, I'd like for you to have that type of remedy, like that type of outcome.
Mike [01:18:38]:
Yeah.
Eldar [01:18:38]:
You know what I'm saying? I saw you at your lowest. I saw what girls, you know, particular girls did, what they did and how you made you feel. You know what I'm saying? And now I know what you can accomplish potentially, you know, and that's what I wish for you. I mean, obviously I wish you the best, of course, in it. You know what I mean? Especially when we have these types of conversations. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But no, but, you know.
Mike [01:19:03]:
Yeah.
Eldar [01:19:04]:
You know what I'm saying?
Mike [01:19:04]:
Like, you would have to give the example of what he said and how I responded and then maybe we can understand that.
Toliy [01:19:10]:
Yeah.
Mike [01:19:10]:
I don't know.
Eldar [01:19:11]:
I think the magical moment is actually.
Toliy [01:19:14]:
The application of those things.
Eldar [01:19:16]:
The things to become reality.
Toliy [01:19:18]:
Yeah, the application of those things to do that.
Mike [01:19:22]:
Come. To come.
Eldar [01:19:23]:
Come into reality.
Toliy [01:19:23]:
Yeah. And I feel like often.
Mike [01:19:26]:
Are you saying that I'm scared that I'm not ready? Because I will say no, I definitely feel that way.
Toliy [01:19:31]:
No, no, no, it's not that. Like, I feel like. I mean, I know what other way to describe it. Yeah, that, that, that. That's just how I feel. Is that like. Yeah. Or if you want to call it magic or like, I feel like, like I know that when someone, when someone knows something like in general about it.
Toliy [01:19:49]:
Right. Like the way that they give guidance and try to put confidence in another individual. They describe things in a way where you have 100% control over everything. Right. Like, you know what I'm talking about?
Eldar [01:20:03]:
Who has control? The person who's given advice.
Toliy [01:20:06]:
The person who's giving advice to the other individual. And they actually know their shit. Right. They're depicting it in a way where, like, you have 100% control of the individual. The more ignorant the person is, they, they. They are coming into it feeling that they only have 10% control and 90% is out of their hands. The person who knows their shit shows that there's a hundred percent.
Eldar [01:20:29]:
Okay, got it. Okay, okay. I got it. I.
Toliy [01:20:34]:
I hear it. That when you're giving the advice.
Eldar [01:20:37]:
Yeah.
Toliy [01:20:37]:
There's still like, for example, let's just say, I don't know, numbers. 90, 10. Yeah, there's still 10% that is not in Mike's control.
Eldar [01:20:44]:
Well done. Yeah.
Mike [01:20:45]:
No, but that 10% is not that. It's not in my control.
Eldar [01:20:48]:
It's not there yet.
Mike [01:20:49]:
So it's a buy in. That's what you're. That's what's missing.
Eldar [01:20:53]:
What?
Mike [01:20:54]:
Right.
Eldar [01:20:54]:
What's missing. Buying the buy in, I think. Buying on what? On, like, on the fact that this is possible. Okay.
Mike [01:21:03]:
No, no, on the fact like, like, you. Something hasn't occurred for me to, like. I understand what you said.
Eldar [01:21:07]:
I understand what he's saying. Yeah.
Mike [01:21:08]:
I haven't assumed that identity.
Eldar [01:21:10]:
Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Mike [01:21:12]:
So Maybe that's the 10% you talk about.
Toliy [01:21:15]:
That's what I'm saying is that like part of the feedback that's what I'm saying is magic is like Elder is saying that, hey, none of this is just magic. These are like, this is your 100%. You have full control over this. And like, when you're in a. When you're a person who doesn't know this stuff. For example, when you hear that, you're like, wait, Elder, but what do you mean? Like, what if this happens? Right. You know what I'm talking about. The person can give you things, and they're gonna keep giving you things.
Eldar [01:21:41]:
Yeah.
Toliy [01:21:41]:
Until they run out of those things.
Eldar [01:21:43]:
Yeah.
Toliy [01:21:43]:
And you're gonna keep the spelling because you actually know your shit yout're gonna show that.
Eldar [01:21:47]:
Yeah.
Toliy [01:21:48]:
You have 100% control.
Eldar [01:21:49]:
Yeah.
Toliy [01:21:49]:
Right.
Eldar [01:21:50]:
Yeah.
Toliy [01:21:50]:
But the person who, like, is less and less competent feels that more and more of this is almost like luck and magic.
Mike [01:21:57]:
Yeah. I definitely don't feel like there's luck or magic. I feel like in this situation, I'm.
Toliy [01:22:02]:
Not saying in general, like, there's parts of it.
Eldar [01:22:05]:
No, I get it. I get. I know what he's saying. You know, the unknown that you're not experiencing yet or that energy or whatever.
Toliy [01:22:11]:
Yeah.
Eldar [01:22:11]:
Is a little bit like magic called to you maybe right now. Yeah. But, but, but to me, it's very attainable.
Mike [01:22:18]:
Yes.
Eldar [01:22:19]:
Yes, I get it.
Toliy [01:22:20]:
Yes.
Mike [01:22:20]:
I'm not sure. I don't get it.
Toliy [01:22:22]:
Yes.
Eldar [01:22:22]:
Oh, you're not supposed to.
Mike [01:22:23]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Toliy [01:22:26]:
Also. Also, in part of that process, you could say things and the person, like, may not even say them. Could be like, oh, you could say that.
Eldar [01:22:34]:
Yeah.
Mike [01:22:35]:
Now you completely lost.
Toliy [01:22:36]:
That's okay.
Mike [01:22:36]:
I didn't follow the first part.
Eldar [01:22:37]:
Now I don't.
Toliy [01:22:39]:
You know what I'm saying?
Eldar [01:22:41]:
Yeah. When they're acting. Right.
Toliy [01:22:43]:
What?
Eldar [01:22:43]:
When they're acting. When they're in the field.
Toliy [01:22:46]:
Like. Like. Like part. Part of the stuff, too, as well. What I'm saying is that, like, you could say things of like, this is how shit is ran. And the person on the other hand could be like, oh, it's really ran. Like that.
Eldar [01:22:56]:
Like. Well, no, come on. Mike knows that. Not. Not. Not right now. I mean.
Toliy [01:23:00]:
No, like certain stuff I'm saying.
Mike [01:23:04]:
To.
Eldar [01:23:04]:
An individual who doesn't know anything. Yeah.
Toliy [01:23:06]:
Yes, I get it.
Eldar [01:23:07]:
To Mike.
Toliy [01:23:08]:
No, I know.
Mike [01:23:10]:
He actually.
Toliy [01:23:11]:
No, I'm saying that over time, that. That decreases. That's. That's why I said not like 90 10, for example, to the completely ignorant idiot.
Eldar [01:23:22]:
99.9.
Toliy [01:23:23]:
9.9.
Mike [01:23:24]:
He actually said this. I wanted to bring it up, but we haven't had a chance. Yeah, No, I remember something like that. They were speaking when we're writing on the board. He said, I know my shit. Like, my shit and nobody tell me shit.
Eldar [01:23:34]:
Yeah.
Mike [01:23:35]:
And when we're talking about. I said, yeah, I feel like I like my shit.
Eldar [01:23:38]:
Yeah.
Mike [01:23:38]:
And I have someone. I know my shit.
Eldar [01:23:40]:
Yeah.
Mike [01:23:40]:
And I'm trying to get to the third place, maybe the 10% or whatever. Right?
Eldar [01:23:45]:
Yeah.
Mike [01:23:46]:
But when I said that, he said, no, I don't think so.
Eldar [01:23:48]:
Huh?
Mike [01:23:49]:
He said that. I don't think you know you shit.
Eldar [01:23:51]:
Yeah, I think that's what it is. Probably that's the magic part.
Mike [01:23:54]:
Oh, that's the magic.
Eldar [01:23:55]:
Well, yeah. Ultimately.
Mike [01:23:57]:
So what does that mean? Like, when you said that, I never asked you, but I wanted to follow up.
Toliy [01:23:59]:
No, I said it. No, I didn't say that. You didn't know your shit. You were asking for, like, a rankings. I remember.
Mike [01:24:07]:
Yeah.
Toliy [01:24:07]:
Rank this out of town.
Eldar [01:24:08]:
Put your mic close to yes.
Toliy [01:24:11]:
Yeah, yeah. Like, you were what. Whatever the number was, you were asking for a numerical. Like, oh, like, okay, this is nine out of ten. Or this is ten out of ten.
Mike [01:24:19]:
Okay.
Toliy [01:24:20]:
Maybe.
Mike [01:24:20]:
Yeah. Okay. Okay.
Toliy [01:24:21]:
So I didn't say they. You didn't know.
Mike [01:24:22]:
Yeah, your.
Toliy [01:24:24]:
I. Yeah, I. I definitely agree with Eldar that the third one is the clear.
Mike [01:24:28]:
Like, yeah, 100% clear.
Toliy [01:24:29]:
Outlier.
Mike [01:24:30]:
Yeah.
Toliy [01:24:30]:
In. In lacking. But I also don't agree that like. That like what? Like knowing your is like displaying your also right. Like hand. Hand in hand.
Mike [01:24:44]:
No, but then that's the third one though.
Toliy [01:24:46]:
No, that's. No one can tell me shit. So like you could still be behaving.
Mike [01:24:50]:
That way and then that's showing. It's all.
Eldar [01:24:52]:
They all intertwined.
Mike [01:24:53]:
Yeah.
Toliy [01:24:54]:
Okay. Yeah, yeah. Like I viewed that, that second part as more of like a new phenomenon.
Mike [01:25:00]:
Yeah.
Toliy [01:25:00]:
Like five year old Mike.
Mike [01:25:02]:
Yeah, yeah. Yes. Yeah.
Eldar [01:25:08]:
Yeah.
Mike [01:25:08]:
So what. So what's the 10%?
Eldar [01:25:11]:
The magic?
Mike [01:25:12]:
The magic. And what is the magic?
Toliy [01:25:14]:
Yeah, I think part of the process is for you to keep asking questions and for, I mean, people like Eller to not convince you that parts of those things are magic. Yeah.
Eldar [01:25:25]:
So what it is like the magic.
Mike [01:25:26]:
The bridge of the bridge.
Eldar [01:25:28]:
The bridge of the magic happens where you get it, get it is when you go out in the field, you test it and then you convince yourself.
Mike [01:25:35]:
Oh yeah.
Eldar [01:25:35]:
So there's no one going to be in your ears, say, mike, you got it, bro. Then you're gonna, then you're gonna say, wait, Mike, I do have a Mike. Like that, that's that moment. That's the magic moment. And then you're like, okay, like now I'm buying it into my shit. Right. I really, really, like, I got this.
Mike [01:25:50]:
Yeah.
Eldar [01:25:50]:
Like nobody can tell me otherwise.
Mike [01:25:51]:
But yeah, I definitely feel like my. I want to be more prepared, so I want to know more rightfully so before I get into a situation again, like going out there and dating. Even though I have a desire, I want to go out there. But I know that if I don't take the time, do it the right way.
Eldar [01:26:09]:
Yeah.
Mike [01:26:10]:
And I will, you know, feel like it's the right way.
Eldar [01:26:13]:
Yeah.
Mike [01:26:14]:
When I feel like that's that I'm ready to kind of give a crack.
Eldar [01:26:17]:
Yeah.
Mike [01:26:18]:
Yeah. But until I feel like that, I don't want to go out there. Like, I don't want to go out there with a gun for a knife fight, you know?
Eldar [01:26:25]:
Yes. You know, you want to go out there with a shotgun for a toothpick fight.
Mike [01:26:29]:
Yeah, exactly. So that's. Yeah, that's maybe, maybe that's why what he feels. But yeah, I'm definitely more careful and more cautious.
Eldar [01:26:39]:
But yeah.
Mike [01:26:40]:
Yeah, maybe it's like fear. I don't know. Like I've said that to you before, 100%.
Eldar [01:26:45]:
And that's that fear is a good guidance for us to know.
Mike [01:26:49]:
Yeah.
Eldar [01:26:49]:
Where you stand.
Mike [01:26:50]:
Yeah, yeah.
Eldar [01:26:51]:
You know, I mean, and I. And it'll probably guide us to where we land as well.
Mike [01:26:55]:
Yeah.
Eldar [01:26:55]:
Out there.
Mike [01:26:56]:
I don't want to go out there, like, fearful.
Eldar [01:26:58]:
Yeah.
Mike [01:26:59]:
I want to go out there, like, you know, careful.
Eldar [01:27:02]:
But enthusiastic.
Mike [01:27:02]:
Also enthusiastic and ready to correct. Have a.
Eldar [01:27:05]:
So if any girls listening out there, man, we're about to bring it to anybody who want it. We're loaded with banana clips. So it's a good way to segue. Segue towards your next topic about love. Right. And the miscommunication of love and how people. Mr. You know, represent it, you know, and misuse it, misplace it and miss everything.
Eldar [01:27:25]:
Right. The word love and that which they're trying to describe.
Mike [01:27:28]:
Yeah, I think that's. I think that's a huge topic.
Eldar [01:27:30]:
Yeah, for sure.
Mike [01:27:31]:
Because I think. I don't know if I can say it, but I think a lot of people. Most people are looking. They want to love, right?
Eldar [01:27:37]:
Yeah.
Mike [01:27:38]:
In general, like, they won't love from their friends, their family. And overall, romantic love is probably one of the biggest thing that people chase, but it's also one that gives them everybody. I feel like those people the most amount of suffering.
Eldar [01:27:49]:
Yeah.
Mike [01:27:50]:
You know.
Eldar [01:27:51]:
Yeah. So what do you. Here's my question. Can you develop yourself to a point. Point. Okay. As an individual human where you are subconsciously, maybe always only demanding love towards you from others. Yeah.
Mike [01:28:06]:
From yourself.
Eldar [01:28:07]:
No. Well, obviously, first from yourself. I think that's where. That's where I think that the path is. I think it's first going to be yourself and then, like, can you get.
Mike [01:28:16]:
Yeah. See, also.
Toliy [01:28:17]:
Yeah. I'm not sure if there's like a. Like. Like what. What you're saying. I'm not sure if that even exists.
Eldar [01:28:23]:
Know that.
Toliy [01:28:24]:
I think.
Mike [01:28:24]:
Yeah.
Toliy [01:28:25]:
I know that individual who demands love at all times from themselves, I think. I mean, could be wrong, but I think might automatically be demanding love from others.
Eldar [01:28:36]:
Yeah. But like. Yeah, yeah.
Mike [01:28:39]:
Part of, like a standard, what you said.
Eldar [01:28:42]:
Yeah.
Mike [01:28:44]:
Kind of for a second step back into the previous topic. What you guys talking about, the, like the 10%.
Eldar [01:28:49]:
Mm.
Mike [01:28:51]:
I know that because I guess I'm also trying to figure out my footing. Right. With this new identity that I'm working on, like, being this new person and.
Eldar [01:29:01]:
Yeah.
Mike [01:29:02]:
I don't know if that dent is a word, but like this new kind of like, person that I'm. The lifestyle that I'm living.
Eldar [01:29:06]:
Mm.
Mike [01:29:06]:
I'm getting also into that skin. Right. So I could. Sometimes I am hard on myself when I make Mistakes when I fuck up, you know, And I think part of that is where I don't love myself.
Eldar [01:29:18]:
Mm.
Mike [01:29:18]:
So that is like the fear and like, knowing and not knowing thing, which also causes me to be fair, fearful, because I guess in. I also think, like I told you, remember, we're talking about perfection.
Eldar [01:29:31]:
Yeah.
Mike [01:29:31]:
I think I'm demanding too much for myself when I'm not allowing, like, hey, I'm human. I'm gonna go to myself, I'm gonna mess up. Especially this is new day, early days, you know, I'm trying to figure this shit out, how to be the best, you know, towards myself and not get into bad situations with the people I interact with.
Eldar [01:29:47]:
Yeah.
Mike [01:29:48]:
So I think part of that, you know, is the lack of knowing myself and. And putting too much pressure on myself. And that kind of comes back to self love, too.
Eldar [01:29:59]:
Yeah.
Mike [01:30:00]:
You know, and I try to tell myself when I fuck up and make mistakes, I try to say, hey, you're trying to figure this out. You know, I guess it's better than just like, yeah. Moving on. Not taking any accountability and saying, oh, I was right here. Like you guys, for example, you know, like, when I was. Might have been wrong.
Eldar [01:30:17]:
Yeah.
Mike [01:30:19]:
Or reacted emotionally.
Toliy [01:30:21]:
But what do you mean by this pressure thing? Like, what do you mean by that?
Mike [01:30:25]:
Yeah, I, like, I'm not, like, I'm not allowing. I'm not leaving room for like a morning grumpiness kind of thing. Like, if I could be in a grumpy mood, I might take it hard on myself if I was, like, mean to Emma or Gary or mean to Teddy. Right. I'm not allowing, like, the human element to say, like, yo, actually today I'm tired.
Eldar [01:30:53]:
You in pain?
Mike [01:30:55]:
Yeah. Or I'm in pain. And, like, I have to be sure. I don't have to be sure, but I'm going to be sure with everybody.
Toliy [01:30:59]:
But what do you do when that happens? Like what?
Mike [01:31:02]:
I'm upset. I get upset because, like, I'm not trying to be this person. I'm not trying to be perfect. Trying to be perfect. Yes.
Eldar [01:31:07]:
So if he comes out of his face, you know, because he's in pain, he's like, oh, my God, can't believe I did that.
Mike [01:31:14]:
Yeah.
Eldar [01:31:14]:
I should be nicer.
Mike [01:31:15]:
Yeah.
Eldar [01:31:15]:
You know what I mean?
Mike [01:31:16]:
Should be more.
Eldar [01:31:16]:
Yeah, that's definitely. Yeah. I mean. Yeah. You know my example with Catherine.
Mike [01:31:20]:
Yeah.
Eldar [01:31:20]:
You know what I mean? Like, she knows, like, there's certain things about me, you know, they're like, I'm not trying to do this on purpose, but this will Happen if this happens.
Mike [01:31:28]:
Yeah.
Eldar [01:31:28]:
You know, be it sleep deprived being. Yeah, whatever, you know?
Mike [01:31:33]:
Yeah. Like, Gary called me in the morning today with this hurricane talk.
Eldar [01:31:36]:
Yeah.
Mike [01:31:37]:
Handled it. Okay. I would like to have handled the better. I would like to troll them more.
Eldar [01:31:42]:
Yeah.
Mike [01:31:42]:
By like, I want to have a serious conversation with him. Like, yo, what are you saying to me?
Eldar [01:31:46]:
Yeah, yeah.
Mike [01:31:46]:
You know, or like two nights ago, he's like, yo, what'd you do to your car? I'm like, what? He's like, oh, he's moved the logos.
Eldar [01:31:52]:
Mm.
Mike [01:31:53]:
He's like, why'd you do it? I'm like, I like it.
Eldar [01:31:55]:
Mm.
Mike [01:31:55]:
And he's like, no, tell me the truth. Why do you do it?
Eldar [01:31:58]:
Mm.
Mike [01:31:59]:
You know?
Eldar [01:31:59]:
Yeah.
Mike [01:32:00]:
Like, I like it. And then he couldn't. He was. He was like. He was lost a shit.
Eldar [01:32:04]:
Huh.
Mike [01:32:04]:
And the next morning I came in, I'm like, hey, what's up? It's like, I'm good. I'm buying the logos for your car. I'm like, I don't need them. Like, I don't care.
Eldar [01:32:13]:
Lying.
Mike [01:32:13]:
Oh, yeah.
Eldar [01:32:14]:
That's interesting.
Mike [01:32:14]:
Yeah. You know, but like, yeah, I feel like, like, in those kinds directions, I feel like I could have handled myself better.
Eldar [01:32:21]:
Yeah.
Toliy [01:32:22]:
But like, are you guys using that as like, this is a bad thing.
Eldar [01:32:27]:
That wasn't terrible at all.
Mike [01:32:28]:
No, no, no, no, no.
Toliy [01:32:30]:
Not the situation, but like, if you're like, if you had not so great interactions and you're able to realize them afterwards and reflect on it, it's not okay.
Mike [01:32:43]:
Yeah, I mean, I think so. If you could talk about it like.
Toliy [01:32:46]:
Those, like, those are more like. Like, to me. That's better then, like.
Eldar [01:32:54]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. But the thing is, he already set a standard. Right. He understands.
Mike [01:32:58]:
Like.
Eldar [01:32:58]:
Okay, cool. Like, the right approach here. Right. Is to have fun with it.
Toliy [01:33:02]:
Oh, well. Yeah. Yeah. Like, this is definitely my mistake. To fucking tea.
Mike [01:33:06]:
Yeah, I know. Like, there's a better way to do it.
Toliy [01:33:09]:
I have definitely.
Mike [01:33:10]:
I'm too hard on myself.
Toliy [01:33:12]:
Yeah. Like. Like, I. Yeah. Like, you could get to a point where you definitely feel too highly of yourself just because you did a few things right.
Eldar [01:33:22]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Toliy [01:33:23]:
And like. Yeah, you definitely have to. It's very hard. You have to taper down those patients that sometimes you are gonna be an asbag.
Mike [01:33:29]:
Yeah. No, And I think I'm learning that.
Eldar [01:33:32]:
That's right.
Toliy [01:33:32]:
Yeah, that's right.
Mike [01:33:33]:
Well, you.
Eldar [01:33:34]:
You. What you're doing, Mike, you got understand, right. It's reconditioning.
Mike [01:33:37]:
Yeah.
Eldar [01:33:37]:
You're conditioning everything that you've known before and how you used to be so something different now.
Mike [01:33:42]:
Well, yeah.
Eldar [01:33:43]:
You know what I mean? And standards that you set, sometimes they are being a little hard.
Mike [01:33:46]:
Yeah. No, I know that and I. When I do that, when you're.
Toliy [01:33:49]:
I tell myself and. And alert. Than like I do don't account for just waking up. Yeah. Hungover. No. Coffee. Yeah.
Mike [01:33:58]:
Always likes to catch me in those moments.
Toliy [01:33:59]:
Like you just heard those are the best times. Yes.
Mike [01:34:02]:
Yeah.
Toliy [01:34:03]:
Yeah. That. That. I'm. I'm not sure if that's just like a. The way it's supposed to be or. Or some crazy.
Mike [01:34:09]:
Yeah. What I thought about is karma, but.
Toliy [01:34:11]:
It always ends up that way.
Mike [01:34:13]:
But I think.
Eldar [01:34:15]:
Yeah, you're right.
Toliy [01:34:17]:
Yeah.
Eldar [01:34:17]:
The hardest ones.
Toliy [01:34:18]:
At the right moment, I'm just waking up and Marat's coming in and like bombarding me with all the shit.
Eldar [01:34:23]:
Yeah.
Toliy [01:34:24]:
And like. Yeah. To me it's wild, but it's like. It's almost like. Yeah.
Mike [01:34:28]:
Like here's an opportunity.
Toliy [01:34:29]:
Yeah, here's. Here's an opportunity.
Eldar [01:34:31]:
What you got, son?
Toliy [01:34:32]:
Yeah. Yeah. Cuz he's not sleepy, he's alert.
Mike [01:34:34]:
Yep.
Toliy [01:34:35]:
Everything's on point.
Eldar [01:34:36]:
Yep.
Toliy [01:34:36]:
And I'm not.
Eldar [01:34:37]:
Yeah.
Toliy [01:34:38]:
I'm not.
Eldar [01:34:39]:
Yeah.
Mike [01:34:39]:
I want to know if, you know.
Toliy [01:34:41]:
I would have agreed to anything he said.
Eldar [01:34:44]:
Yeah. That's crazy.
Toliy [01:34:45]:
Anything.
Mike [01:34:45]:
I don't know if it's right or not, but one thing I've been thinking about in this kind of thing is also. Probably relates to a lot of areas, if it's accurate, is that life is moment to moment regardless. Right. Like it's. You can't always be the. I mean you can, I guess, strive to be the best version of yourself. But it's also expected that because things are moment to moment, you could fuck up. Because it's not like just a straight, you know, oh, now I'm a fucking do.
Mike [01:35:13]:
Right. And now it's forever. The smooth path. It's going to be like that, you know, with ups and downs.
Eldar [01:35:20]:
Yeah.
Mike [01:35:20]:
Especially early days like this.
Eldar [01:35:22]:
Yeah. We're like.
Mike [01:35:23]:
This is a completely new identity that I'm trying to do.
Eldar [01:35:26]:
But you know what? You know what? I'm gonna put some pressure on you, Mike, considering that you a type of person, like buys in. Into the humor thing and not taking shit too seriously or whatever. Yeah. To be. To be. To be. What's his name? To be dropping the ball on some of these opportunities that you have. That's a little bit.
Eldar [01:35:43]:
Yeah. It's weak sauce on. You know what I'm saying?
Mike [01:35:47]:
I know.
Eldar [01:35:48]:
Because you're A jokester in general.
Mike [01:35:50]:
But I haven't. However, I haven't introduced that identity to my dad.
Eldar [01:35:53]:
That's right.
Toliy [01:35:53]:
No, but it's also different.
Eldar [01:35:55]:
That's right.
Toliy [01:35:55]:
It's also different being a jokester. When you feel like someone's attacking, like, something that, like. Like your ego or.
Eldar [01:36:02]:
Yeah, he's a lot more personal. It gets more personal to him.
Toliy [01:36:05]:
Yes.
Eldar [01:36:06]:
So, like, the Mike who is usually the jokester, the who doesn't really care, doesn't take shit seriously. Right.
Toliy [01:36:11]:
Yeah.
Eldar [01:36:12]:
So this idea. Yeah. So, like, yeah, put. No. Yeah, you should put fucking pressure on yourself to, you know, get your ass and. Yeah. And be consistent with the character 100%. Why not?
Toliy [01:36:21]:
Because then that character won't line up to what you are when you're having time to think correctly.
Mike [01:36:27]:
And I think.
Eldar [01:36:28]:
Yeah.
Mike [01:36:28]:
I mean, like, so do you guys agree that it's just introducing that person to more and more.
Eldar [01:36:33]:
Yeah, absolutely. More and more. Absolutely. Why not? You're good.
Mike [01:36:36]:
I have to go. To resort to the humor. Yeah. Yeah.
Eldar [01:36:39]:
That's what I'm saying. Yeah.
Mike [01:36:40]:
It's hard because that's how I know we have, like, an awkward relationship.
Eldar [01:36:44]:
A hundred percent.
Mike [01:36:44]:
You know, 100%.
Eldar [01:36:46]:
That's why I think that.
Mike [01:36:47]:
And there's a lot of gold nuggets.
Eldar [01:36:48]:
There's a lot of gold nuggets there. And you don't understand how much fun you will have. Like, that's like, my God, you know, Easy pickings there, bro.
Mike [01:36:55]:
Yeah, but is it introducing the identity to myself? Probably. Right. Not to him.
Eldar [01:37:00]:
Again, you're scared to be yourself.
Mike [01:37:01]:
Yes.
Eldar [01:37:02]:
You know what I mean?
Mike [01:37:03]:
I think that's around individuals.
Eldar [01:37:05]:
Individuals that could bully you around.
Mike [01:37:07]:
Yeah.
Eldar [01:37:07]:
On a personal level.
Mike [01:37:08]:
Yeah.
Eldar [01:37:10]:
He can say all the mean shit and, like, it'll push your buttons.
Toliy [01:37:13]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. See, I'm not sure if it's scared to be yourself. I don't even.
Eldar [01:37:18]:
Like, like, when you don't understand how many. Like, my dad is constantly bombarding me and telling me shit that, like, I'm bad at something. Like, this is nonstop. You guys know all those words, bro. Like, he applies that shit to me. You have terrible memory. Where'd you lose your head? Why is this. Why is that constantly.
Eldar [01:37:34]:
I'm like, yeah, you. Right. Like, before I would. You know, before it was a fight, like, trying to convince him otherwise. I assumed everything. I assumed. I said, yeah, you're right. What's wrong with you for not teaching me what's wrong? You know what I mean? Like, I turned the whole thing around.
Eldar [01:37:46]:
Yes, I am all those things. I agree with you.
Mike [01:37:49]:
Yeah.
Eldar [01:37:49]:
That's it. It's done.
Mike [01:37:52]:
Yeah.
Eldar [01:37:52]:
There's no, there's nothing else there. So it's only. It's only right for me to have fun with it. Where then he was on the serious mode and I'm trolling him. Summoning what he's good at too. He's also a troll. My dad likes to laugh. Like fun.
Eldar [01:38:07]:
Right. For fun and shit. Right?
Mike [01:38:08]:
Yeah.
Eldar [01:38:09]:
And then I ignite that in him and then we're ending up having a good time about it because it's not that serious to him. Like, it's just a serious. This is important. You have to order this by today, by tomorrow, whatever. You know what I mean? I'm like, no, I'm already in a year and making a joke out of it or whatever, you know, like. And then we laugh together and stuff.
Toliy [01:38:24]:
Like that, you know, Ordering it in a year.
Eldar [01:38:26]:
Yeah. You know, like stuff like that, you know, so. Yeah.
Toliy [01:38:33]:
Yeah. I feel like, like there's still probably parts, for example, in your guys's relationship where.
Eldar [01:38:39]:
I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry. Before I forget, what I was trying to say is I accepted myself in their eyes. I accepted him like it is that a lot of times what they pointed out is true about me.
Mike [01:38:50]:
Yeah.
Eldar [01:38:50]:
So no problem. But. But there's things that are not true. You gotta be ready to fight.
Mike [01:38:55]:
Yeah.
Eldar [01:38:56]:
And I do fight. So go ahead.
Toliy [01:38:58]:
You know, I was saying that I feel like if you're like, there's definitely scenarios where I know that like, like my family could like say something or do something where I could be very light hearted. I'm just gonna troll all day. And I also know that there are still some things where like they catch me off guard and I can take it like a personal attack.
Eldar [01:39:19]:
Mm.
Toliy [01:39:19]:
And then like there's no funny or light heartedness from me. Now I want to bark back.
Eldar [01:39:24]:
Mm.
Toliy [01:39:24]:
Right. Or maybe I might not say something in my greatest way. So that's what I was saying is I feel like maybe in those terms it's not about like introducing yourself. It's about like really opting out of like there's nothing that this person could say.
Eldar [01:39:38]:
Yes.
Toliy [01:39:38]:
That I can take seriously.
Mike [01:39:40]:
But that's the same.
Eldar [01:39:41]:
Seriously, 100% right. Anything.
Toliy [01:39:45]:
Yeah, but that's very. Yeah, but you may believe that, but then do you believe that when you are beat down all these different.
Eldar [01:39:54]:
Yes.
Mike [01:39:55]:
That 10% correct.
Eldar [01:39:56]:
That gives us that. That's what I'm saying. He said anything.
Mike [01:39:59]:
Be yourself regardless.
Eldar [01:40:00]:
You Cannot believe anything they say.
Toliy [01:40:02]:
Well, no, I don't think that you have any. Have an opportunity to even be yours. Like, you cannot be yourself when there's a personal attack on you. So, like, if you are in the mindset that there's no chance there could be any personal attack on you, there is no chance.
Mike [01:40:17]:
Correct.
Toliy [01:40:17]:
There is no chance.
Eldar [01:40:18]:
And the truth of the matter is if you are, you know, if you are examining the things that they're saying, there's no chance.
Toliy [01:40:23]:
Yeah. You can joke around and laugh at everything.
Eldar [01:40:25]:
Yes, Correct.
Toliy [01:40:25]:
Like there, there's nothing that could make you turn on it. Like a serious mode.
Eldar [01:40:28]:
Correct. So your goal is here. He's right. Your goal here, Mike, is ultimately to not take anything seriously from them.
Toliy [01:40:34]:
Like, yeah, they, they want to raise a lot, like, alarms about these, like, so called serious things. And you also notice that those people get pissed off the most.
Eldar [01:40:42]:
Correct.
Toliy [01:40:43]:
When you.
Mike [01:40:43]:
Yeah, that's what happened. Gary got pissed off me when I started saying, like, yeah, like, let him put him on. No, let him put him on.
Eldar [01:40:49]:
And then you're gonna take them off.
Mike [01:40:50]:
He said, yo, I'm like, how bad is it gonna be?
Eldar [01:40:53]:
Yeah.
Mike [01:40:53]:
He's like, he's gonna blow the roof. I'm like, how confident are you that's gonna blow? He said, 100%.
Eldar [01:40:57]:
Yeah.
Mike [01:40:57]:
I'm like, oh, if you're guaranteeing it, definitely have to do something.
Eldar [01:41:00]:
Yeah, let's go do something.
Mike [01:41:01]:
Yeah. Can we talk to him? Because I'm like, yo, we don't have to say ridiculous shit. I'm like, yo, we have to do it.
Toliy [01:41:06]:
That's why I told Mike, I told Mike right, right away when he was telling us. I'm like, yo, you gotta take him up on all of this. You gotta go, go to the max.
Eldar [01:41:13]:
Yeah, 100%. So, Gary, if you're listening to this. Oh, you probably won't because the hurricane will pass by Friday.
Mike [01:41:20]:
Yeah.
Eldar [01:41:21]:
We're coming to do the roof work.
Toliy [01:41:23]:
Yeah.
Eldar [01:41:24]:
To hold down the roof.
Mike [01:41:25]:
He said 100% guaranteed it's gonna blow the roof off.
Toliy [01:41:27]:
Yeah. Like tomorrow we should be on top of the roof.
Eldar [01:41:29]:
Yeah. Putting sandbags. Sandbags, sandbags everywhere.
Mike [01:41:33]:
Yeah.
Toliy [01:41:33]:
Should go to Home Depot and buy sand. Yeah. You should spend thousands of dollars on this. Yeah.
Eldar [01:41:39]:
No. Yeah, there you go. Right. And when you start, when you start doing this, you'll quickly find out that they have no water in anything that they're saying.
Mike [01:41:47]:
No, I know they don't.
Eldar [01:41:50]:
Okay, you want to do this? Let's do this together.
Mike [01:41:52]:
Let's.
Eldar [01:41:53]:
Let's let's exercise your nonsense that we were saying.
Toliy [01:41:56]:
And also imagine like if we were all to get involved in all.
Eldar [01:41:58]:
Oh, my God.
Toliy [01:41:59]:
And then anytime we see Gary, we're like. Like, he's gonna almost know that.
Mike [01:42:02]:
Yeah. See, also one thing I thought about is that, yes, I would like to joke with him, but I know that sometimes my jokes, they could be. They go far.
Eldar [01:42:09]:
Yeah, yeah.
Mike [01:42:10]:
You know, and I also want to make sure, like in a way that I don't also go too far with.
Eldar [01:42:15]:
Oh, yeah, you'll learn that. You'll learn. But sometimes you will step in the. You're gonna feel like you're a little bit mean or whatever other stuff and you might have to apologize even and stuff.
Mike [01:42:24]:
Yeah.
Eldar [01:42:24]:
But you'll learn the gauge of where you can go, where you can push, but you can't push.
Mike [01:42:27]:
No. Yeah.
Eldar [01:42:28]:
You know what I mean? Trust me, there's plenty of times when my mom gets upset with me. You know what I mean? But I know when it's real and when it's not.
Toliy [01:42:33]:
But it's also short lived stuff.
Eldar [01:42:35]:
And it's short lived stuff.
Mike [01:42:36]:
The next day he was like debadging the car because all the glue was there.
Eldar [01:42:39]:
Yeah, yeah.
Mike [01:42:39]:
I saw him in the afternoon wiping it. I was gonna ask him, like, so does it look better or not?
Eldar [01:42:43]:
Yeah.
Mike [01:42:44]:
Without the badges?
Eldar [01:42:44]:
Yeah, yeah.
Mike [01:42:45]:
You know?
Eldar [01:42:45]:
Yeah.
Mike [01:42:46]:
I didn't ask, but yeah, but like, yeah, he comes around. I think the hurricane is dead now for him.
Eldar [01:42:52]:
Yeah, it's already there. That's it?
Mike [01:42:53]:
I think so. Yeah. Yeah.
Toliy [01:42:56]:
You have to ask tonight, like, hey, like, what preventative measures are we doing tomorrow?
Eldar [01:43:03]:
What are some things that you will be comfortable with doing in order for.
Toliy [01:43:06]:
Us to, you know, to ensure our safety?
Eldar [01:43:08]:
Yeah.
Toliy [01:43:09]:
Should we book like a spot in some shelter or something?
Eldar [01:43:11]:
Yeah, yeah.
Mike [01:43:14]:
So we're continuing the carnival.
Eldar [01:43:16]:
No, I mean, we did. I think we did great. We could do final thoughts if you guys want.
Mike [01:43:21]:
About the allegory of the cave.
Eldar [01:43:23]:
Yeah, yeah.
Mike [01:43:24]:
I mean, allegory of the cave, I would say. Well, I like definitely, you know, asking good questions, see if the person is really about what they are.
Eldar [01:43:33]:
Yeah.
Mike [01:43:34]:
But also I think if you ask good questions in a way, there's probably some trolling in it because if you ask a serious question, that person will realize how not serious their theory is.
Eldar [01:43:45]:
Yeah.
Mike [01:43:46]:
Or they complain.
Eldar [01:43:47]:
I agree with that.
Mike [01:43:47]:
So having fun and trolling, asking questions.
Eldar [01:43:49]:
Yeah.
Mike [01:43:50]:
It's a really good method, I think. Method not just for anything, but for overall, maybe in life not to take things too seriously because People, we like to take things seriously.
Eldar [01:44:03]:
Oh, yeah, for sure. For sure.
Mike [01:44:05]:
So I would say.
Eldar [01:44:06]:
Yeah.
Toliy [01:44:07]:
Yeah. Like, I'm not really sure what.
Mike [01:44:09]:
Yo, excuse me. This is my final thoughts.
Eldar [01:44:10]:
Yeah.
Mike [01:44:12]:
This guy. Bro.
Eldar [01:44:13]:
Yeah. Seriously, you just made a. You made the introduction, probably, with that outburst. What's the matter with you?
Toliy [01:44:19]:
Go drink some coffee. Nectar.
Mike [01:44:21]:
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. So I think. I think it's important. Yeah. And I also see, like. Yeah. How I am with. Most of the time.
Mike [01:44:31]:
I do have some sensitive areas you guys know of.
Eldar [01:44:33]:
Yeah.
Mike [01:44:34]:
You know, I do that. Most of the time, I'm pretty, like, happy. Go lucky, Joke around. Try not take things too seriously, especially now that I'm moving on.
Eldar [01:44:41]:
Get your panties in a bunch of slime.
Mike [01:44:43]:
Oh, yeah. You guys know that it's coming. But. Yeah, I think that's a. That's a good approach to kind of have fun with everything. Not take it too seriously. And I guess I'll be thinking how to, you know, apply that more and more for myself.
Eldar [01:45:05]:
Yeah.
Mike [01:45:05]:
And the people that I meet. Yeah. I guess it's part of. It is a conflicting identity. Right. Maybe to the. To my father or to those girls, I want to present myself as, like, some kind of different version.
Eldar [01:45:18]:
Correct.
Mike [01:45:18]:
Versus, like, I'm actually this silly, goofy guy who doesn't really give a fuck about anything.
Eldar [01:45:22]:
Correct. You know that's what I'm saying. Like, that's your sauce. Like, that's your thing.
Mike [01:45:27]:
But also, as I remove, I guess, stresses from my life, like. Right. Bad habits, bad qualities, like, you know, being dishonest, being a bad businessman, whatever that causes me stress that causes me to do this. Probably it helps to stay to my core, which is just having fun and being a funny guy.
Eldar [01:45:45]:
Saucy guy. Saucy guy. Yeah.
Mike [01:45:48]:
So, yeah. Consistency in character.
Eldar [01:45:50]:
100%. I mean, but it's also, like, it's. It's probably making a choice. Who the fuck are you? The fuck you want to be. Right. You got it.
Mike [01:46:00]:
Yeah.
Eldar [01:46:01]:
Right? What? Serves you, what doesn't. That's it. All right. It sounds simple, right? Yeah, sounds simple, but it's not, you know, because we're bound by attachments. You probably have to evaluate some of those attachments to the other stuff or you take yourself seriously or, you know, try to portray a particular.
Mike [01:46:19]:
Why? Why?
Eldar [01:46:19]:
Why?
Mike [01:46:20]:
Because I was instilled, like, with. I guess. Yeah. A lot of the girl stuff is related to the Gary stuff.
Eldar [01:46:26]:
Yeah.
Mike [01:46:26]:
Where Gary wants me, you know, this image of the successful business guy. Promised land of the Jews, you know? Yeah. And now I Have to also act in such a way. Like I'm this business guy, like, you know.
Eldar [01:46:37]:
Yeah. I also parting the seas.
Toliy [01:46:39]:
Yeah. I also think.
Eldar [01:46:41]:
Yo.
Toliy [01:46:43]:
You'Re not final thoughts. You're just like back to observation. What are you talking about here?
Mike [01:46:50]:
Okay.
Eldar [01:46:51]:
What are you talking about?
Toliy [01:46:53]:
Yeah, no, I was saying.
Mike [01:46:54]:
Oh, I got a smile at a dentist and a lot bro. A chuckle, bro. Yeah.
Toliy [01:46:57]:
I was gonna say is that like I. I feel like when. When I observe like anytime you and Gary together or general. Just like all things you said about Gary thinks. I think that Gary's like live job is to promote seriousness.
Eldar [01:47:12]:
Oh yeah.
Toliy [01:47:13]:
Like.
Mike [01:47:13]:
Oh yes.
Toliy [01:47:14]:
His life duty on a bunch of different.
Eldar [01:47:16]:
Yeah. Things.
Toliy [01:47:16]:
Right.
Eldar [01:47:17]:
Yeah.
Mike [01:47:18]:
Right.
Toliy [01:47:18]:
And he tries to I guess like, like even though he does Gary's funny and he could say funny shit.
Eldar [01:47:25]:
Yeah.
Toliy [01:47:25]:
Right. He in general tries to like portrayal more serious person and tries to promote seriousness.
Eldar [01:47:31]:
Yeah.
Toliy [01:47:31]:
And I feel like maybe for a long time Mike was trying to line up with the seriousness and also like he probably grew some resentment towards lining up like feeling the need to be forced into line up to this seriousness.
Eldar [01:47:42]:
Yeah.
Toliy [01:47:42]:
Right.
Mike [01:47:43]:
Yeah.
Toliy [01:47:43]:
So I feel like. Yeah. The conversion of like every time he wants you to be as serious as possible, like you're going to be as fucking like goofy and like silly as possible.
Mike [01:47:55]:
Yeah.
Eldar [01:47:55]:
Like what's his name? Let's not diminish the importance of being serious. Sometimes when it's called when it's called for, when you need to take care of business. Certain things and stuff like that that are actually oppressing stuff, you know what's actually real. Right. I mean again, you have to really define what's not a lot of the individuals in life at least why they taking shit too seriously. Right. Yeah. That means is they're taking small little things and making big things out of them.
Eldar [01:48:20]:
So. Yeah. Like, you know, actual things, you have to identify what those actual things are that need to be serious. You have to.
Mike [01:48:26]:
But I also.
Eldar [01:48:27]:
Yeah.
Mike [01:48:28]:
I also know that nothing that he come to me is actually like if it's serious, I am on it.
Eldar [01:48:34]:
Okay.
Mike [01:48:35]:
Before him is my thoughts.
Eldar [01:48:36]:
Yeah.
Mike [01:48:36]:
What is going to come to me, bro. Yeah. A hurricane is coming or there's a problem in the business, for example. I don't know about.
Eldar [01:48:42]:
Yeah.
Mike [01:48:43]:
Or that I'm not thinking about.
Eldar [01:48:44]:
Like correct.
Mike [01:48:45]:
You know, a lot of times what he thinks is serious, it's either it's not serious or already understood.
Eldar [01:48:50]:
Yeah.
Mike [01:48:50]:
What it is.
Eldar [01:48:51]:
Yeah.
Mike [01:48:51]:
And it's not that serious for me.
Eldar [01:48:53]:
Yep, Yep.
Mike [01:48:54]:
You know. Yeah. I guess the position that he thinks that he's the dad and he's got to watch over me.
Eldar [01:49:02]:
Yeah.
Mike [01:49:03]:
Versus what? The reality is that like you're the dad. I'm the dad. I done been looped him in the business.
Eldar [01:49:08]:
Yeah.
Mike [01:49:08]:
You know, understandings.
Eldar [01:49:09]:
Yeah. Correct.
Mike [01:49:10]:
You know, correct. How the business should be run. Like he can't come to me anything in business related.
Eldar [01:49:14]:
Yeah. Yeah.
Mike [01:49:14]:
But he still does because he thinks I'm the son.
Eldar [01:49:16]:
Yeah. He hasn't separated those two identities.
Mike [01:49:20]:
Yeah.
Eldar [01:49:20]:
Yeah. I really like the fact that we covered a lot of shit, you know, and I think the most important thing again comes back to. Yeah. Try not to take stuff seriously. Maybe by default.
Mike [01:49:34]:
Right?
Eldar [01:49:35]:
By default. Shit's not serious.
Mike [01:49:37]:
Yeah.
Eldar [01:49:37]:
So don't take it seriously. Especially like, you know, we're talking about this guy's our parents and stuff like that.
Mike [01:49:41]:
Right.
Eldar [01:49:42]:
Because a lot of the times, unfortunately they're, you know, life did it to them or whatever.
Mike [01:49:46]:
Yeah.
Eldar [01:49:46]:
Oh, you know, they're rate. They're raising false alarms, you know, in our lives. They're constantly saying like, shit's pressing, shit's got to get done. This is crazy. It's a constant like pedaling of anxiety and fear and like be careful and all this other stuff. Right. If we tap into it and actually pay close attention to our lives are going to be just like theirs. And it's a little chaotic and we clearly don't want that because we don't laugh more, enjoy more and be happy.
Eldar [01:50:12]:
So yeah, by default, like totally said try not to take anything that they say seriously. I mean, think about it, reason through it, see what's up, you know, see if it's really, there's any merit to it. If there's not, like, just stay away. If you. Yeah. If you can like enjoy yourself, laugh and troll. You know what I mean? Just maybe just stay quiet.
Mike [01:50:33]:
Yeah.
Eldar [01:50:33]:
You know, there's also power inside, so.
Mike [01:50:36]:
I agree.
Eldar [01:50:37]:
That's my, my take on it.
Toliy [01:50:39]:
Yeah. I think there's also value. Like if you can't and outburst is.
Mike [01:50:42]:
Needed, like right now.
Eldar [01:50:45]:
Yeah.
Mike [01:50:45]:
Yeah.
Toliy [01:50:45]:
Then like do it. And like, and no, no, but you.
Eldar [01:50:49]:
Can'T, you know, you can't just say that. Totally.
Toliy [01:50:51]:
No, no. What are you saying?
Eldar [01:50:52]:
No, I'm saying have an outburst. Like you can't have an outburst knowing that, like. No, no, you can't summon a random outburst.
Toliy [01:50:57]:
No, not intention.
Mike [01:50:58]:
I'm saying.
Eldar [01:50:59]:
I know.
Toliy [01:51:00]:
No, I'm saying that like if it does have happen. If, if it does happen.
Eldar [01:51:06]:
Yeah.
Toliy [01:51:06]:
Like examine it and, and look at it and just.
Eldar [01:51:09]:
Yeah. And you have to apologize and all those crap. Yeah, yeah. It's true. If you did up, and if you did have an outburst, like you said, then you examine it, apologize and keep it moving.
Mike [01:51:17]:
Yeah.
Eldar [01:51:18]:
And then, you know, make it. Make sure it's. It's a heartfelt apology. So then next time around, you, you know, think twice of stepping in that same dirt.
Mike [01:51:25]:
Yeah.
38. Socratic Methods and Allegory of the Cave: Unveiling Truths through Inquisitive Conversations
Oct 07, 2022•2 hr 51 min•Ep. 38
Episode description
How does one's understanding and confidence in a situation influence their perception of control and ability to address their problems?
In episode 38 of Dennis Rox, titled hosts Mike, Eldar, and Toliy delve into the intricacies of advice, control, and the quest for truth through the lens of personal experience and philosophical underpinnings. They explore the nature of advice, highlighting the fine line between sharing wisdom and appearing overly controlling. Eldar and Toliy bring forward the idea that understanding and confidence can grant a sense of control, while Mike emphasizes the inevitable uncertainties that accompany any journey, underscoring the need for self-belief and persistent curiosity.
Drawing from the famous allegory by Plato, the hosts ponder the ethical implications of sharing enlightenment with those who might be resistant. They discuss whether it's a philosopher's duty to guide others or if such efforts are only valuable when met with openness and readiness. Shifting to personal identity, the conversation touches on the pressures of societal expectations and the importance of self-acceptance. With humor and camaraderie, the hosts tackle the complexities of communication, personal growth, and the pursuit of authentic relationships, making this episode a thought-provoking blend of philosophical inquiry and practical wisdom.
Transcript
Transcript source: Provided by creator in RSS feed: download file