Dennis [00:00:00]:
On this week's episode, I was worrying. And then you changed and it went away. But then you did it again, and I'm back to worrying.
Eldar [00:00:07]:
That's why they might be hiding behind worrying, saying, I worry because it's love. Because they can't tell you that. You know what, son? You're a fucking idiot. Nobody ever says that, right?
Mike [00:00:17]:
No.
Eldar [00:00:17]:
So they worry and then they say.
Mike [00:00:19]:
Okay, they're hiding behind it.
Eldar [00:00:20]:
They might be hiding behind it.
Mike [00:00:21]:
The iron situation. Did you think that was a sick person at that time?
Gary [00:00:24]:
Of course you were sick. You were sick with love. I did stupid thing when I was in love when I was a kid.
Mike [00:00:28]:
Yeah.
Gary [00:00:28]:
But the difference is I was 10 or 12.
Eldar [00:00:31]:
Right.
Gary [00:00:31]:
You were much, much older. In the past, we had situations. Right. When Mike was on the mission. Right. Mike was on the mission to do something stupid. Right. And there was.
Eldar [00:00:49]:
All right, so this week's topic is why worrying is a love language. Is it effective love language? Right. What does it accomplish and who prefers it, this type of love language? I guess worrying. But before I guess we answer that question, since Ygrud was not here for why we think worrying is a love language, can we kind of bring him up to speed to why we think that worrying is a love language? And maybe you can get an example since you have one.
Toliy [00:01:22]:
Yeah. Yeah, I guess oftentimes, at least, like I have felt that my parents show love through worrying. Right. And then if you are not worrying, that means that you don't love like that. That that's always something that they have said and, like, felt. So I guess, like that. That would be one example, right?
Eldar [00:01:43]:
Yeah. No. 100%. So you understand, right? Yeah. That parents, a lot of the times are they worry for us because they love us, you know, so we, we, you know, we concluded that for some people, at least. At least for parents, right. Their love language is to worry for their kids, obviously. Right.
Eldar [00:02:00]:
So we want to ask why is that? Why? Why is worrying has to be the love language? Can there be something else? Is it effective way of, you know, showing your love, I guess, to whoever it is that you're worrying about? What does it accomplish? And who prefers to display this type of love language to others through worrying?
Gary [00:02:24]:
What is opposite to worrying?
Eldar [00:02:25]:
Opposite. Yeah, to worrying.
Gary [00:02:27]:
Careless. Right. Can you. Can you?
Eldar [00:02:30]:
No.
Gary [00:02:30]:
Yeah. Not to care. To worry means to care, right?
Eldar [00:02:36]:
Well, I'm not sure I can tell you. The opposite of not caring is to.
Gary [00:02:40]:
Care, but the opposite. But if care. If worry. If worrying is part of caring.
Eldar [00:02:48]:
Yeah.
Toliy [00:02:48]:
Well, what is worrying? How Would we define that?
Gary [00:02:53]:
Well, have you been fed? Are you closed properly? I mean, that usually relates to a small child, right?
Toliy [00:03:05]:
Small.
Gary [00:03:05]:
Are we talking about parents?
Eldar [00:03:07]:
So that's just one example.
Toliy [00:03:09]:
Yeah. I'm asking because, like, I think that I can care about something but not worry about it. But I don't know.
Mike [00:03:16]:
But.
Eldar [00:03:16]:
Right, right. Oh, yeah.
Toliy [00:03:17]:
You can care about something but not worry.
Gary [00:03:19]:
Talking about worrying, and I think from my position, it's. It's easy to show you my side of caring because I'm a parent, right? I'm a parent.
Eldar [00:03:29]:
You're the only one parent here so far as me. No, I am too. But you parent only to Archie.
Gary [00:03:36]:
Yeah, but technically. Technically you are.
Eldar [00:03:38]:
Yeah, Right.
Gary [00:03:39]:
So to me, opposite to worrying is carelessness, right? You either care or you don't. Now imagine careless parents, but those are.
Mike [00:03:55]:
Not the same words. Worrying, carrying, worrying.
Gary [00:03:58]:
It's similar caring.
Eldar [00:03:59]:
Well, yeah, I hear you. I hear your argument that worrying and caring is very similar, but I'm not sure if they're the same. Carelessness and caring is two opposites, 100%.
Gary [00:04:10]:
Well, I really don't know what. The opposite of worrying.
Eldar [00:04:15]:
Yeah. So, yeah, but it doesn't mean not caring because, for example. Right.
Mike [00:04:22]:
I'll give you an example that you might understand. You have somebody that works for you, that drives the cars. In the beginning, you're worried, is he competent? Is he a safe driver, Is a good driver, as time progresses, should you naturally not worry about what he's doing? That person shows you that he's competent and you get confidence from that.
Eldar [00:04:42]:
Right? Yes. But you can also do active caring. Right. So in your case, if you worried for a driver who might be not competent.
Mike [00:04:49]:
Yes.
Eldar [00:04:49]:
What you can do is you can make sure to take off the time to care. Right? So by caring, by actually showing that you care, by going on drives with him, by sitting down and describing different routes and how to go to them, know your shortcuts and stuff like that, telling them about the proper etiquette and stuff like that. You caring for this individual to perform their duties correctly. Right. So that's not you actually worrying, Right. It's like, sure, you might worry, but you actually doing something proactively. Right. Versus worrying is more of a passive, inactive.
Eldar [00:05:23]:
Yeah. Way of showing you care. But active caring, Right. Is actually training the driver to do. Right. And then therefore you're not going to worry.
Toliy [00:05:33]:
So then, so then based on what you said, worrying only kicks in when there's lack of action on the caring side.
Eldar [00:05:42]:
That's interesting. Okay.
Toliy [00:05:44]:
Because it's like this. It's like if you have a test, right? And your test is tomorrow and you've been studying for like weeks, you have.
Eldar [00:05:52]:
Nothing to worry about, Right.
Toliy [00:05:53]:
You have nothing to worry about. Right. And you have nothing to worry about because you took physical action of preparing for the test. You studied for it, Right. But if you know that the test is tomorrow and you did not take action, you did not care, and you did not study for it and prepare for it, you will be worried, right?
Gary [00:06:11]:
Correct.
Toliy [00:06:12]:
So if you're more than prepared, you have nothing to worry about. If you're, if you feel like you're not prepared and you kind of procrastinated, then you're going to worry.
Eldar [00:06:21]:
But you worry because you care. Because you can also go and say, you know what? I'm not worried because I don't even care if I get a fucking.
Toliy [00:06:28]:
Yeah. You know. You know what I'm saying?
Eldar [00:06:30]:
So. So to a degree, you care for the grade that you get or whatever or how people will see you when you get a bad grade. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? So you worry because deep inside you care, but you're not doing anything about it. So it's almost an inactive. Inactive caring that provides worry. Some feeling. Yeah.
Toliy [00:06:48]:
I think naturally to worry you have to care, but if you're caring, you don't have to worry.
Eldar [00:06:54]:
That's good. That's a, That's a good way to put it. What do you think, Gary?
Gary [00:06:58]:
Well, in relationship to drivers, it's, it's. It's one thing if we staying. If you're staying with the topic, which is more like a parenting. Right.
Eldar [00:07:07]:
Because we can.
Gary [00:07:08]:
It doesn't matter what it's about, Right?
Eldar [00:07:10]:
Yeah.
Gary [00:07:10]:
Then it's different. Like, I care about my business, but I only care about my driver. I just want him to be, you know, to do what he's supposed to do, what he's supposed to do.
Eldar [00:07:20]:
Right.
Mike [00:07:21]:
You don't worry when the drivers are out late on the jobs. You don't have a problem that you can't sleep at night.
Gary [00:07:26]:
I, I don't think I'm worried about his sleeping at night or not. I'm worried. I'm worried that he's not sleeping behind the wheel.
Mike [00:07:35]:
No, I'm saying that you're not worried while the driver's on the job doing, Driving a party bus with 20 people. You're not worried about him.
Gary [00:07:43]:
Yeah, you do worry, but I don't, I don't worry about his personal life.
Mike [00:07:46]:
Well, yeah, obviously, I hope you're not worried. You're worried about what? You. About the situation that he's driving 20 people.
Gary [00:07:55]:
I worry about my business.
Mike [00:07:57]:
You do. And you also care about.
Gary [00:07:59]:
So my driver is part of my business about my drive. I worry about my car. Cars, Car.
Eldar [00:08:05]:
Customers.
Gary [00:08:06]:
Customers. It's natural, it's instinctive. You cannot not worry.
Mike [00:08:12]:
That's what we're trying to get to.
Gary [00:08:14]:
It's definitely instinctive, even when it comes to your children or anything else.
Eldar [00:08:18]:
Yeah, I agree with that.
Mike [00:08:20]:
When you were saying that if you're.
Eldar [00:08:23]:
Prepared, then you don't worry. I think worry is like a derivative of fear, and that's a human natural emotion. No one's been able to escape fear. So, like, even if you're fully confident, you'll still worry. Now, maybe there's just a way to kind of lower the volumes of worry. But I don't think it's possible to just be like, no, if you're prepared, you're not worried. I just don't think that's.
Mike [00:08:44]:
So then you're saying that any person in his situation that has employees or whatever would always worry. There's not a person that, as a business owner that does not worry. I don't know. It would have to be universal thing. If you're saying it's instinctual. No.
Gary [00:08:58]:
Well, yeah, that's what I'm saying.
Eldar [00:08:59]:
I don't.
Mike [00:08:59]:
I don't know if that kind of person even exists.
Eldar [00:09:01]:
I think.
Mike [00:09:01]:
I think would be a masterful person.
Eldar [00:09:04]:
Again, gauges the volumes of that worry.
Mike [00:09:07]:
See, there's also different kinds of worry. There's paranoid worry, then there's like, okay, the driver hasn't picked up the phone. I can't see where he is, the job is. Or versus, like sitting there and thinking about it like, yo, like, I wonder where he is. I wonder if everything's okay, but there's nothing happening, you know, or where you make up your own shit in your head and you start thinking like, well.
Eldar [00:09:27]:
That'S the thing, right? When I think that the worry. I think what totally was saying comes in when you didn't do enough due diligence. Yeah, right. You did the work properly to prepare the driver to explain everything thoroughly. Where he understands that you have an agreement with that person. He understands you, you understand them. And then you know that you sent someone out there, competent. Yes, Right.
Eldar [00:09:51]:
To do the job correctly. Yeah. So example of that is right? For example, you doing a job yourself, right. With 20 people on the bus versus somebody who you just hired doing the job themselves. Right. So there's clearly difference that how much worry he's going to have for you doing it and making sure that the job is done.
Mike [00:10:11]:
Yeah.
Eldar [00:10:11]:
Versus somebody. Somebody else was a stranger.
Mike [00:10:13]:
Yeah, of course.
Eldar [00:10:14]:
So it's clearly there's, you know, different. There's a reason for that because he has a rapport with you. He understands you. He knows that you care for the business as much as he cares for the business and stuff like that. Right. So to an individual who's a completely new to the business, he didn't have the time or the effort that he put in enough care has put in in order to train that person up and get to know them properly.
Mike [00:10:35]:
Yeah.
Eldar [00:10:36]:
He will have certain words. Yeah.
Mike [00:10:38]:
No, I agree for sure. But I think that there's a gap here. I guess. I think we talk. I'm not sure if we touched on it, but I think the gap is confidence and competence. If you're not confident in the training you provided that person or you're not confident in that person's abilities.
Eldar [00:10:56]:
Yeah.
Mike [00:10:57]:
Whether it be employee or it be your kids. If you don't think that your kids are competent.
Eldar [00:11:01]:
Yeah.
Mike [00:11:01]:
And you're not confident in their abilities, you will always worry.
Eldar [00:11:05]:
Correct.
Mike [00:11:05]:
So, but where does that come from? What's the root of that? You know, like, we have a different way.
Eldar [00:11:12]:
We try to answer that question. Why worrying is the love language.
Mike [00:11:15]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Maybe it's a guilt thing, but is.
Toliy [00:11:19]:
Is this a question where everything universally is the like the same thing? Like, like, for example, like I, I asked my mom the same question.
Eldar [00:11:29]:
Right.
Toliy [00:11:29]:
And I mean the first thing she said is that, you know, one day, like if and when you have kids, you'll understand. So she, she, she's just kind of implying that I don't have the ability to understand, like to talk about this right now. So you need to experience. So like by, by telling me that she's, she's believing that like because it involves kids like in, in, in, in.
Eldar [00:11:53]:
In.
Toliy [00:11:53]:
When I was asking her. Yeah, right. She's saying that, that like that's a whole different world basically. So like it say like, she's basically saying that like you could solve this for everything else but, but like when it comes to the kids thing, it'll be completely different.
Eldar [00:12:09]:
So your question is what.
Toliy [00:12:11]:
So it is, is this a thing where it's universally the same like, like for all types of situations or.
Eldar [00:12:19]:
Well, no, because you know what I would say no, because we have plenty of examples of parents that kick their kids out of the house, for example. Right. We have that we have kids that go to jail, that. We have kids that grow up poor with drugs, you know, get addicted to drugs, become alcoholics, whatever it is. Right. So there is a threshold where maybe a parent reaches where they're no longer worried. They're like they gave up on the kid.
Toliy [00:12:46]:
Well, that's. I think what Gary was saying. He was saying that, like, the. The opposite. I mean, to him, he was saying the opposite of. Of worrying is carelessness. And if you have the carelessness, that's how the kid could end up. Like all those things that you just said.
Toliy [00:13:00]:
Right. But if you worry, then you can prevent potentially those kind of things.
Mike [00:13:05]:
Yeah, yeah. I'm saying that if you care.
Eldar [00:13:07]:
Yeah.
Mike [00:13:08]:
And you care, which means, like, you're gonna do due diligence with whatever you're trying accomplish.
Eldar [00:13:13]:
Can you. Can you do worrying and caring at the same time?
Gary [00:13:16]:
I think worrying is part of caring. I still, still.
Eldar [00:13:19]:
I'm not sure we solved that.
Toliy [00:13:21]:
Yeah, no, I. I think that for you to worry, there has to be some level of care.
Eldar [00:13:26]:
I think there's probably a lack of care.
Mike [00:13:28]:
But what's still some level you subconsciously may know that you didn't care enough. That's why you're worrying, is what I was saying.
Eldar [00:13:34]:
Yes.
Toliy [00:13:34]:
Yes.
Eldar [00:13:35]:
Your example of the test is a perfect example. You didn't prepare enough for the test. That's why you worry.
Toliy [00:13:41]:
Yeah.
Eldar [00:13:42]:
Because if, you know, if you looked at there's 20 questions, you study those 20 questions, you know the answers to them.
Toliy [00:13:47]:
Yeah.
Eldar [00:13:47]:
You're not gonna go to class trembling like, I just read these questions. I know the answers to these questions.
Toliy [00:13:53]:
Yeah. Like, probably about, like 10 years ago, I had an accounting final. I didn't study for it. All right? It was 50 questions, all one point each. And. And the night before, I got a Adderall pill from a friend and I studied all night.
Eldar [00:14:14]:
This is a concentration pill.
Toliy [00:14:15]:
If you don't know, like a concentration. Like a pill for people who have ADHD. And I took it at like 8:00 at night.
Gary [00:14:22]:
Should try it.
Toliy [00:14:23]:
Yeah. I took it at like 8 o'clock at night and I stood up all night. My accounting final was at 8am at Bergen. Yeah, I stood up all night. I studied the whole thing.
Eldar [00:14:32]:
Okay.
Toliy [00:14:33]:
And I got 40 out of 50.
Eldar [00:14:34]:
Were you worried?
Toliy [00:14:35]:
I was now.
Eldar [00:14:36]:
No.
Toliy [00:14:36]:
When I was done studying, there was no chance that I would not annihilate this test.
Eldar [00:14:40]:
You would not worry at all.
Toliy [00:14:42]:
But I was absolutely worried.
Eldar [00:14:43]:
Before he actually put in the work.
Toliy [00:14:45]:
I studied for like, eight hours straight.
Eldar [00:14:48]:
But why is worrying then is disguised as a love language for so many people then?
Mike [00:14:55]:
Because they. Again, because there's a disconnect. Because caring is a conscious thing and worrying is a subconscious thing. It's a side effect of not caring.
Toliy [00:15:04]:
I think worrying is a connection.
Eldar [00:15:05]:
What? What?
Toliy [00:15:07]:
Yeah, like, like worrying is like. Like, like when two people are worrying together, there's a connection that they share. For example.
Eldar [00:15:15]:
Okay.
Toliy [00:15:16]:
Right. So like my, My. Like my. My mom and my grandma are worried about, I don't know, let's say my sister or me or something.
Mike [00:15:23]:
Yeah.
Toliy [00:15:23]:
Like they're worrying and there's not actually no action being taken. It's just worrying and they're displaying that. And by doing that, they're connecting and there's some kind of comfort zone that's created, like if we worry enough.
Eldar [00:15:37]:
But I would probably say that worrying is infectious.
Toliy [00:15:41]:
Well, yes, but it's also. But it's also a scenario where, like, they feel. The more they're worrying at that moment, it's like. It's like rubbing like the golden lamp. Like the genie will come out and do what?
Eldar [00:15:54]:
And fix the problem. Really?
Toliy [00:15:56]:
Yes.
Eldar [00:15:57]:
Wow, that's interesting. Wow. And you think that if you ask them this question, they'll admit.
Mike [00:16:03]:
But also what happens from worrying? Isn't there.
Eldar [00:16:05]:
They might admit to this.
Mike [00:16:06]:
Yeah, like.
Eldar [00:16:08]:
Like you already said.
Mike [00:16:10]:
I already said. Yeah, but I think. I think. I think it's.
Eldar [00:16:14]:
It's.
Mike [00:16:15]:
It's ridiculous, but it's probably reasonable.
Gary [00:16:17]:
Worrying is actually. Is. Is. Is a negative thing because it prevents you from finding a way. From solution. Yeah, finding solution. Like if you stuck with. If your car broke down and you stuck, and first thing you do, you worry.
Gary [00:16:35]:
Which is equal. Equal panicking.
Eldar [00:16:38]:
Yeah.
Gary [00:16:38]:
Right. You're done. You're never gonna find solution.
Eldar [00:16:41]:
Yeah.
Gary [00:16:41]:
Which is probably in front of you versus in many. In many times. In most of the time. Yes. Versus person who, like, from what I understand, worrying is inherited. You're born with it. You either born a person who worries or you're born a person who is not. Person who always finds solution.
Gary [00:17:06]:
Right.
Mike [00:17:07]:
Born or developed.
Gary [00:17:08]:
Do you think, like, he. You take me and him. I always worry. He's always calm.
Mike [00:17:17]:
But I'm reckless, though.
Eldar [00:17:18]:
But that means you didn't pass it down to him. So it's not inherited.
Mike [00:17:21]:
Yeah, for him.
Gary [00:17:22]:
No, no.
Eldar [00:17:23]:
In this example.
Gary [00:17:23]:
No, that's not. It wasn't right when I was trying to say you're born with it, it's not inherited.
Eldar [00:17:28]:
Oh, okay.
Gary [00:17:29]:
You're born with it. Yes.
Eldar [00:17:29]:
You're born with it.
Mike [00:17:30]:
Oh, you think you're born with it?
Gary [00:17:31]:
It's. It's random.
Eldar [00:17:33]:
Random.
Gary [00:17:34]:
Is it. Is it right word to use? Instinctive?
Eldar [00:17:37]:
No, probably not instinctual.
Gary [00:17:40]:
Like you. Born with it.
Eldar [00:17:41]:
Yeah.
Gary [00:17:42]:
Right.
Eldar [00:17:42]:
Yeah.
Gary [00:17:44]:
Like some people, they born to be calm, calm. Some people born to be short. Some people born to be high, tall, or some other qualities. So warring is equality. You're born with it. Like if. If you. If you're born without quality, without balance in your.
Gary [00:18:05]:
In your, in your, you know, psychology, you. You always gonna be worry, worrying. Like me. I've always been worried.
Mike [00:18:14]:
But what happened to me?
Gary [00:18:15]:
You were always cow.
Mike [00:18:17]:
So then I didn't. I wasn't born with it.
Eldar [00:18:19]:
Well, yeah. Yeah. You were born with it or not?
Gary [00:18:24]:
To me. To me to change it. There's no chance. I'll. I'll never change. I've always been worried about things.
Eldar [00:18:31]:
Yeah.
Gary [00:18:32]:
Things that exist, things that don't exist. It's also your perception. My perception is I'm always worried about.
Eldar [00:18:39]:
Things you like worrying or not.
Gary [00:18:41]:
My house. I can't change it. There's nothing you can do.
Eldar [00:18:44]:
No. But did you grow to like it?
Gary [00:18:47]:
Of course not.
Eldar [00:18:48]:
Or not?
Gary [00:18:49]:
No.
Toliy [00:18:49]:
What the hell have I been doing this whole time then? I can't change it.
Gary [00:18:54]:
I always. I don't know, maybe, like, if I look back right at my life, the things that went through my life, maybe those things made me worrying. I don't know.
Eldar [00:19:08]:
Maybe. Yeah.
Mike [00:19:08]:
Well, I think that's what we're trying to crack here.
Gary [00:19:10]:
What I'm trying to say is I don't know what comes first, the worrying or reason. Yeah.
Mike [00:19:16]:
You never had a situation where initially you were worried about something, but with time that you stopped worrying. Or now, of course.
Eldar [00:19:24]:
You didn't help the cause.
Mike [00:19:25]:
No, that I get.
Eldar [00:19:27]:
Yeah.
Gary [00:19:29]:
You mean like things just went away?
Toliy [00:19:32]:
No, like, do you, do you, like. I don't know if you're saying the same thing, but, like, do you think that, like things that you worry about now, for example, Right. Are you able to stop worrying about them if you were to look at them and maybe, like, change something? Yeah, yeah, well.
Eldar [00:19:51]:
Well, yeah.
Toliy [00:19:51]:
Change your perception by using, like a logic.
Gary [00:19:55]:
It's. It's. It's hard. It's.
Eldar [00:19:57]:
It's.
Gary [00:19:57]:
It's almost impossible.
Mike [00:19:58]:
I was asking him if he had a situation where he worried about something and then with time. Yeah, he stopped worrying about that thing. That thing didn't go away.
Toliy [00:20:05]:
Using, I think, a logic. Right.
Mike [00:20:08]:
Also putting time on yourself, maturing.
Gary [00:20:10]:
Let's, let's.
Eldar [00:20:11]:
Solving the problem.
Gary [00:20:12]:
Let's you. Let's use an example, right? Let's. Let's use you as example, right? Oh, yeah, I was worrying and then you changed and it went away. But then you did it again and I'm back to worry.
Mike [00:20:27]:
You don't have to always worry, right?
Toliy [00:20:29]:
Yeah, but did it make sense for him to worry?
Gary [00:20:31]:
Guys, that's what I'm trying to explain to you. You can't. This is something that you live with it.
Mike [00:20:38]:
No, but you just said you stopped, so that means you don't have to live with it.
Gary [00:20:42]:
It just went away.
Mike [00:20:43]:
You think it just went away?
Gary [00:20:44]:
You don't think it went away somewhere?
Mike [00:20:46]:
Somewhere.
Gary [00:20:46]:
Somewhere it's. It's still there, but it never goes away. Never. It never goes away.
Eldar [00:20:52]:
It's also. There's a lot of many different things that we worry about and we don't worry about. You might worry about your kid, but you might not worry about this thing, you know what I mean? Your job or vice versa. You might worry about your job so much as much as you worry about your kid or your car. Right. There's plenty of people that have their values wrong. Right? Yeah.
Mike [00:21:08]:
Some people call the word then you can't. I would say it's not a worry, it's a panic. Because what he just described, maybe initially was worry. Then when the situation, like he said, went away, when it resurfaced. I don't know if it was worry or was panic.
Gary [00:21:23]:
It's probably next level, you know.
Toliy [00:21:26]:
Yeah, they're probably levels what I want.
Eldar [00:21:28]:
They're definitely.
Mike [00:21:31]:
Panic is an elevated worry. Elevated.
Gary [00:21:34]:
The next. It's the next.
Mike [00:21:35]:
It's. Yeah. I guess more worrying is like a.
Eldar [00:21:38]:
Little buzz and panic is like a big blow up.
Gary [00:21:40]:
Yeah. If your car broke down on the. I'll give you an example. If your car broke down.
Eldar [00:21:46]:
Right.
Gary [00:21:46]:
It's not, it's not a good thing.
Eldar [00:21:48]:
Yeah.
Gary [00:21:48]:
And it broke down on the, on the local street. Right. Versus it broke down on turnpike. Is it?
Eldar [00:21:55]:
Oh, and you have 20 minutes to get to your wedding.
Gary [00:21:57]:
Yeah. Reaction is, reaction is different. Right. You panic.
Eldar [00:22:00]:
Yeah.
Gary [00:22:01]:
You worry, but you have time and it's safe. You're in your neighborhood. But if it's a fucking tour bike, you, you're panicking because, you know.
Toliy [00:22:11]:
But, but the reason that, that you're panicking is, is why, like, what's the difference, for example there?
Gary [00:22:18]:
Because, because you, that's how you are.
Eldar [00:22:22]:
No, he gave you a reason. He gave you a reason. He said on one area, if you broke down on a regular street yeah, Right. The car's not going as fast.
Toliy [00:22:30]:
Oh, he said not going as fast.
Eldar [00:22:32]:
Yeah.
Mike [00:22:32]:
Well, local street, safer.
Gary [00:22:34]:
A lot of factors.
Eldar [00:22:35]:
And then. And then if you're in a turnpike and if you have to be at the wedding in 15 minutes. Right. And a lot of cars are going fast. Just too much stuff going on all at the same time.
Gary [00:22:43]:
And of course you fast.
Eldar [00:22:44]:
So you stop. Yeah.
Mike [00:22:44]:
You don't want to change a tire on the highway, like 100 people, hundreds of cars flying by.
Eldar [00:22:48]:
Right. Especially when a customer is calling you and saying like, where are you?
Mike [00:22:51]:
Yeah.
Toliy [00:22:51]:
Okay. So the, the same breakdown happens, but the, the circumstance are different. Is different.
Eldar [00:22:57]:
Correct. Does that happen, by the way, or not have. It's just then. Then it's inability to deal with those types of situations. Your inability.
Toliy [00:23:06]:
That's what I'm saying is that like if you prepared yourself for like, for example, like if you're doing like, I don't know, like weddings. Right. You know that there's going to be a time, like this is almost fact. Right. That there's going to be a time, a break, probably more than once that some car is going to break down.
Mike [00:23:23]:
Oh, yeah.
Toliy [00:23:24]:
And the wedding is going to get messed up.
Mike [00:23:26]:
The first job I did on a stretch car.
Eldar [00:23:28]:
Yeah.
Mike [00:23:28]:
The first stretch car that we ever bought. The first job I went on my own and the car broke down 10 minutes from the house. It was a problem.
Eldar [00:23:34]:
Yeah. And you clearly panicked, right. Because it's probably a big pressure. First time ever, you know, I don't think you padded.
Mike [00:23:40]:
No, I don't remember. I don't know.
Eldar [00:23:41]:
He didn't.
Gary [00:23:42]:
Patty.
Mike [00:23:42]:
No, he panicked.
Eldar [00:23:43]:
He just called another company. But, yo, I need another limo, bro.
Mike [00:23:46]:
No, I don't. I don't think I panicked because I.
Gary [00:23:47]:
Was upset, but he.
Mike [00:23:49]:
I was upset, but I didn't like, worry. I didn't panic.
Gary [00:23:51]:
I was like, yo, Mike never panics because that's the way he was born. That's his nature. That's how he is. And other people, they just. That's their first reaction. That's how they are. There's nothing you can. There's nothing they can do.
Eldar [00:24:10]:
All right, so let's not talk about worrying for things or outcomes. I guess we just talk about love language. Why is worrying really a love language? That is used by some.
Mike [00:24:20]:
Yeah, I mean, we can ask Gary. Does he feel like he's expressing that he loves his kids when he wears for them? Sure, if he's open to answer that question.
Eldar [00:24:28]:
Yeah.
Gary [00:24:29]:
Again, there are many ways to express their love Right. Everyone is doing it the way, the way they can or the way they learned. Like my dad, he didn't spend much time with me, but I know he loved me. But you know, that's the way he express his love. He wasn't worrying about me, except maybe once or twice. He wasn't worried about me. It's just the way he expressed his love. His personality was, I'm different, I'm more emotional.
Gary [00:25:07]:
And it probably part of my worrying or anybody else's worrying because maybe those people are more emotional. And that again and again, that that's how you're born.
Mike [00:25:22]:
You don't then you don't. So you don't think that's changeable, Right. You're just born with it and that's it.
Gary [00:25:26]:
You know what? It's, it's a good question because I think, I think if you put enough efforts, you can probably change it. You can, you can change a lot of things about yourself. You just need to know how. And it takes efforts, but you can change a lot of things about yourself. And without using any pills.
Mike [00:25:49]:
Yeah.
Eldar [00:25:49]:
Yeah.
Gary [00:25:50]:
I truly believe it.
Eldar [00:25:51]:
Yeah.
Toliy [00:25:51]:
So what, what do you think is lacking, I guess, in the. People that are worrying, aren't worrying, are.
Gary [00:25:58]:
Worrying what they're liking.
Toliy [00:25:59]:
Like, like what would.
Gary [00:26:00]:
Perception. It's perception, the way you see things, right. Like if Mike is late, like very late, right. Later, like he's away, he's out. I'm worried and there's nothing I can do. I'm worried.
Toliy [00:26:16]:
Okay, so that's a good example, right? Because for example, let's just say it's 2:30 in the morning, right? Mike's not home and Gary's worrying about where he is. He's not answering his phone.
Gary [00:26:27]:
And I'm not trying to express my love. I'm just.
Eldar [00:26:30]:
Very good. I think that's a very good distinction. You see what he just said? He's separating. I'm just worried. This is not my expression of love language. Yeah, he's saying I'm worried. And I agree with that. When you worry, you just worry.
Eldar [00:26:41]:
It is not a love language. However, the argument here, we're talking about why some people call it. Your mom said I'm worried because I love you.
Toliy [00:26:49]:
Yes.
Gary [00:26:50]:
And yeah.
Mike [00:26:51]:
And guys, can you do this expression?
Eldar [00:26:54]:
Well, he said when you're late, he's not worried. No, but that's showing you love. He's just worried.
Toliy [00:26:58]:
That's what I'm saying. Is that the perception? It's 2:30 in the morning or 3am Whatever. Let's say Mike's out and, and worrying about him. I, I, I guess, like when he's worrying, he could play out a scenario where like, I don't know, like, I don't know, like he, he's in danger or maybe he's at some, like, I don't know, some, like a pirate ship? Yeah. No, no. Somewhere in a position.
Mike [00:27:22]:
All the company's money.
Toliy [00:27:23]:
Yeah.
Eldar [00:27:23]:
Yeah.
Toliy [00:27:24]:
Like he could be in some bad position or he could be passed out on Eldar's couch in his basement.
Mike [00:27:29]:
Yeah. Eating Doritos.
Eldar [00:27:30]:
Right.
Toliy [00:27:31]:
But the perception of what's going on is what's causing the worrying. If he knew that it's three in the morning and he's asleep on your couch, would you worry?
Gary [00:27:39]:
If I knew?
Toliy [00:27:40]:
Yeah.
Gary [00:27:40]:
If I know his little other house, I'm sleeping, I'll stop worrying.
Eldar [00:27:44]:
Yeah.
Toliy [00:27:44]:
You see, so it's the perceptions. Because it's three in the morning and he doesn't know what is going on. Exactly. So because of that you have the.
Mike [00:27:53]:
So the worry is from the unknown.
Toliy [00:27:55]:
Yeah. Yeah. Because it's unknown. Right. You go right away towards the more potential batting that Mike's just like, I don't know, out and I don't know, like drugs or something.
Eldar [00:28:04]:
I don't think we have a disagreement here when it comes to worrying itself.
Mike [00:28:08]:
Yeah.
Eldar [00:28:08]:
What he described to you, he was just worried. This is by no means was it showing the way. No.
Toliy [00:28:14]:
But why is he worried to begin with? Because he loves Mike.
Eldar [00:28:17]:
No.
Toliy [00:28:20]:
Like he's not worried. He says he's not worried about his personal, personal life.
Eldar [00:28:24]:
He wouldn't get, he wouldn't want. Because he's worrying. Because he doesn't want any harm. Yeah.
Toliy [00:28:29]:
He said he's worried because he cares.
Gary [00:28:32]:
So, so caring comes first.
Toliy [00:28:35]:
Yeah. And he cares because he loves his son.
Eldar [00:28:39]:
Right.
Toliy [00:28:40]:
He's not worried if his driver is out.
Gary [00:28:43]:
You worry not only about people who you love. Like you have friends. Right. When your friend is sick, what do you do? Like if Hildar, God forbid, if Hildar is sick, what do you do? What do I do?
Mike [00:28:57]:
Chrome.
Toliy [00:28:59]:
I probably call him a few times to bother him and then.
Gary [00:29:02]:
But why you call him. You don't call him too much because you worry.
Eldar [00:29:07]:
Right.
Gary [00:29:07]:
You worry how he is.
Toliy [00:29:09]:
Well, it doesn't have to be worrying. Can I call? Because I care?
Gary [00:29:14]:
Well, that, that's, I distinguish the two.
Eldar [00:29:18]:
Good. See, he, he's challenging that. He's saying that I'm not worried. Elder would be fine. He got Covid, whatever. But I know he'll get through it. I'm calling because I care.
Toliy [00:29:26]:
Yeah. I also know, you know, for example, when it comes to getting sick, like, I know that Elder is competent, taking the right vitamins, doing the right things. Like he's, he's not like gonna be at a, like no partying at night when he knows.
Eldar [00:29:38]:
Okay, so there you go. So that's a very good point. See, what you bring in is that there you have trust. Yeah. I will do the right thing. Where Gary doesn't know where Mike is, he is under the impression or making impressions in his head.
Toliy [00:29:51]:
Perceptions.
Eldar [00:29:51]:
Perceptions, Right. Yeah. That Mike is on a pirate ship with strippers and blowing all this company money.
Mike [00:29:58]:
It might have happened once, but why is that?
Eldar [00:30:02]:
Why is that? Because Mike had a certain level of history, maybe of doing certain things that gave Gary worry more. Build into that word.
Gary [00:30:10]:
Absolutely.
Eldar [00:30:11]:
And they never grew together closer to understand each other. That Mike actually maybe has grown from that period of time. Now he's a different Mike. That he has nothing to worry about. That most likely he's not somewhere blowing money. He's most likely watching TV somewhere. He got carried away, maybe fell asleep on the couch. Yeah, but that comes.
Eldar [00:30:29]:
Yeah, so you said trust. It's a very important word. Yeah.
Toliy [00:30:32]:
Because like, nobody's worried when, like, like for example, if. But it's like, like, I don't know, like.
Eldar [00:30:37]:
So to worry is to demon of the individual incompetence, right?
Toliy [00:30:43]:
Yeah, Like I worry definitely. It's the times for Archie. But I. Then, yeah, then I, I also believe that Archie could display incompetence of eating certain things or doing certain things that could harm. Harm him.
Eldar [00:30:55]:
Yeah.
Toliy [00:30:56]:
So I don't trust him to make the right decisions. Right.
Eldar [00:31:01]:
Yeah, yeah.
Toliy [00:31:02]:
That's why, for example, I would worry for him.
Eldar [00:31:05]:
Yeah.
Toliy [00:31:05]:
But I'm not worried when he's laying right in front of me. I know exactly what's going on.
Eldar [00:31:09]:
So you know that he can be a danger to himself.
Toliy [00:31:12]:
Yes.
Eldar [00:31:12]:
Therefore you can't leave him alone with chocolate everywhere. Yeah. Right. Because he'll hurt himself by eating it. Yeah. Yeah. So he's incompetent. So I think worrying then displays your, your true or inner feelings about how competent that individual is in a given moment or scenario.
Toliy [00:31:31]:
Yeah. And when it comes to like a parent to kid relationship, parents, I would say overwhelmingly probably think that their kids are incompetent.
Eldar [00:31:38]:
Yes. So that's why they might be hiding behind worrying, saying, I worry because it's love. Because they can't tell you that, you know what, son? You're a fucking idiot.
Toliy [00:31:48]:
Yeah.
Eldar [00:31:48]:
And you can't get yourself in bed at the right time because you're gonna go party, you're gonna hurt yourself. Yeah. Nobody ever says that, right?
Mike [00:31:54]:
No.
Eldar [00:31:55]:
So they worry and then they say.
Mike [00:31:56]:
Okay, hiding behind it.
Eldar [00:31:58]:
They might be hiding behind it because they can straightforward tell you youu know what? You're an idiot. This is why I worry. Prove to me that you're not an idiot. And now I'm not gonna worry anymore. Right. Right. So that means you have to call me every hour on an hour until you get home.
Mike [00:32:10]:
Yeah.
Eldar [00:32:11]:
If you show me that you can do this every single hour, I'm not gonna worry anymore. I'm gonna leave you alone.
Mike [00:32:16]:
Yeah.
Eldar [00:32:16]:
That's it. So if you call him like, yo, dad, I'm good, dad, I'm good. That I'm good, he's gonna see that you're competent, individual. You're gonna come home on time and, and he's not going to worry anymore. But until you do that, he's going to have to hide behind. Yeah, I worry because I love you, but really it's like I worry because you're an idiot.
Toliy [00:32:31]:
Yeah. And, and like the, like the parent and like, like kid relationship.
Eldar [00:32:36]:
Right.
Toliy [00:32:36]:
Is that like, like they're your parents, like they brought you into the world and stuff like that? I feel like they feel like they have a responsibility to, to care, to, to worry and to care. Care for you. Probably. Probably. Because yeah, they, they like I don't know what it takes for the parents to, to have that full trust that they have a responsible kid. I think that that's probably very rare.
Eldar [00:32:58]:
Yeah, but what does it take exactly? Tell me what it takes. What it takes for you to install into your kid, to know that, you know what my kid is.
Mike [00:33:05]:
You gotta study for that exam.
Eldar [00:33:07]:
You have to study for that exam.
Mike [00:33:10]:
That's where the drop is. Some parents might feel like they not study enough for the exam to be, to be parents. And then it comes out in that way where you have to worry. You know what I'm saying?
Eldar [00:33:21]:
Oh, wow. So worrying then becomes Dr. K, which is Dr. Karma. Yeah.
Mike [00:33:27]:
Yeah, I guess so.
Eldar [00:33:29]:
Right. So, Gary, following us.
Gary [00:33:33]:
I lost you for a past few moments.
Eldar [00:33:36]:
For moments. Okay. Yeah. So we're saying that worrying, Right. Ultimately is describing to our kids. Let's just talk about kids or drivers. Right. That we don't trust that the kid or the driver is competent yet.
Eldar [00:33:49]:
Not yet. That's why we have to worry. But as soon as they display competence, you stop worrying.
Gary [00:33:58]:
It's one of the one of the ways.
Eldar [00:34:04]:
Right. That means the person is not behaving in accordance to what you believe be right. And because they're not displaying that, you have to have worry. Right. But worry, then we deducted, is a phenomenon that comes in into your brain, into your heart, into your feeling is a result of you knowing that probably you didn't do enough caring in order to install competence in that individual. So you worry.
Gary [00:34:38]:
Yeah, but that's one of the sides of worrying. There is also, like a different side. When you worry about someone who's sick and you worry about that person and you're trying to help him and you end up bothering him with your phone calls and so on. So that's another way of worrying.
Eldar [00:35:02]:
Right.
Gary [00:35:02]:
You not necessarily love the people, but you care about them and you worry that he's. He's okay or she is okay. So that's another side of worrying. Yeah, and question is, like, some people, they worry too much and they just bother that person who probably wants some peace of mind, you know? So that's caring. That's worrying, too. That's also worrying.
Eldar [00:35:28]:
Yeah, but like, what's the reason to.
Toliy [00:35:30]:
Worry about individual who's sick?
Gary [00:35:32]:
Well, if somebody is ill, maybe like even seriously ill, and you worry about that person in the column every minute, checking, do you need anything? Do you need anything? That's worrying too, that's not necessarily positive.
Toliy [00:35:47]:
So, for example, if there was a scenario where you're worrying about someone who's ill and sick, but let's say beforehand they are sick, but you have 100% guaranteed chance that they're going to make it out fine, like they're gonna get through it, Would you still worry throughout the process? Like, if you have guaranteed that they're going to get better, everything will be okay.
Eldar [00:36:06]:
Who gives out those guarantees?
Gary [00:36:07]:
But he's. Nobody can guarantee.
Toliy [00:36:09]:
No, no, I'm trying. Oh, no.
Eldar [00:36:11]:
Well, no, come on, Tony. But obviously.
Toliy [00:36:13]:
No, but I'm saying that, like, the reason that the worry happens is because, like, you get a perception of like. Like something really bad. Like, like the worrying is only there. Like it's not because the person is sick. It's because the person is. I think it's because the person is sick and you feel like, I don't know, they're going to die or like. Or like they're not gonna make it or like something like that. Right.
Toliy [00:36:37]:
But if you got those guarantees before, you wouldn't worry. So you worry because they're ill, they may not make it.
Mike [00:36:43]:
So you're worried because of the Unknown.
Toliy [00:36:45]:
Yeah. You worry about the unknown.
Eldar [00:36:48]:
Sounds like very selfish. Yeah, it sounds like a very selfish.
Mike [00:36:52]:
You actually was not for yourself. You like.
Toliy [00:36:54]:
Yeah, that's what I was asking. If you know that that person's gonna be completely fine, for sure. But they're sick right now, but you have a guarantee that they're fine afterwards, are you still worrying, or are you only worrying because you feel that that person will not be okay?
Eldar [00:37:06]:
Correct. Yeah, it's a very good. Very good point. Very good question.
Mike [00:37:09]:
I think it might. Worry might be tied to, like, in a way, guilt. No.
Eldar [00:37:15]:
Yeah.
Mike [00:37:17]:
Like, if you're worried about your friend, maybe you feel like you've been a bad friend, you didn't support him enough, you didn't win there for him enough. Now you. Him hogging him on the phone, calling him all the time.
Eldar [00:37:25]:
Yes.
Mike [00:37:26]:
Because you feel guilty that you didn't. You weren't there for the times maybe before that you needed him, and now his time might be up.
Eldar [00:37:31]:
Yeah.
Mike [00:37:32]:
All of a sudden you want to, like, you know, you want to clear your conscience. Like, I was there for him in the end. Like.
Eldar [00:37:37]:
Yeah, yeah, that.
Toliy [00:37:38]:
Or like. Or like, if they're ill and, like, you're not a doctor or you're not, like, able to help really, like, for example. Right. Like, yeah, I feel like there. I. I think it's some kind of energy connection here that that's going on. Like, if someone is sick and Gary's worrying about them and he makes that known, there's some kind of energy connection that's happening between the person who is sick and the worrier. Like, that gives that person something like that.
Toliy [00:38:08]:
Or they think it will. Like, they think that it will help. I mean.
Mike [00:38:11]:
But.
Eldar [00:38:11]:
Yeah, I think a lot of times, I think at least what, you know, thinking about, you know, people getting sick or whatever, anybody. All you guys getting sick with COVID or whatever. Right. And giving you a call, you know, it is an interesting thing where it's like, am I really worried, or am I calling you because I care? You know what I mean? Because I'm not really worried. Because I. You know, I generally believe that you can. You'll make it through. You'll be fine.
Toliy [00:38:35]:
Okay.
Eldar [00:38:35]:
You know what I mean? You didn't give me the reason. Like, you're not on a. You're not in the hospital in a coma. You know what I mean? Like, for me to actually worry, you know, you're doing fine, and, you know, like you said, you display level of competence, that you're taking care of yourself, drinking lots of fluids and stuff like that, you know, taking your medication. So. Yeah. But yeah, I can see how worrying can be almost like a selfish thing that is maybe like you said, it.
Gary [00:39:02]:
Could be a result as a result.
Eldar [00:39:04]:
Of caring, you know, because I can display caring in a different way. Right. And of course, I don't know, like Dennis, for example. Right. Your example. I think that maybe versus totally. I can do that. Right.
Eldar [00:39:18]:
I can do the two different contrasts because totally is more anxiety.
Mike [00:39:21]:
Yeah.
Eldar [00:39:22]:
Right. Then it says two, but it's more masked with maybe action, fast action. If you said something, hey, you know, this was going on. Totally will ask a whole bunch of questions beforehand about how's this, how's that? You know, all those things. He'll go into the worrying part where Dennis goes, what do you need? I could bring you this, I could bring you that. I could bring you that. You guys have. Maybe he goes into worrying on his own.
Mike [00:39:43]:
Yeah.
Eldar [00:39:44]:
But he goes into go mode.
Mike [00:39:46]:
Yeah.
Eldar [00:39:47]:
It's a different display of care. You know what I'm saying? Why? No. Totally cares. Right. But I know that he's worried.
Mike [00:39:55]:
Yeah.
Eldar [00:39:56]:
Right. So he's going through his own experience, through the process where this is mass. Dennis's masked more with like. I know he's worried, but he's hiding it behind like, I'm going to just get done. For you.
Gary [00:40:07]:
Survival mode.
Eldar [00:40:08]:
Yeah, it's different type of.
Mike [00:40:10]:
Yeah.
Toliy [00:40:10]:
No, but that. That reaction to me is like a trained reaction of like, this is what's needed. Because like. Yeah, that. That. That's what I'm saying.
Eldar [00:40:20]:
Personally, I appreciate the go mode. Right. More than worrying. You know, my personal preference, for example, Because I know like, yo. Like, enough worry. Everybody's. I'm worried. God damn it.
Eldar [00:40:30]:
You know what I'm saying? If I'm sick with COVID like, I don't need more people to worry about me. Like, care for me, be there for me, love me.
Mike [00:40:36]:
Yeah.
Eldar [00:40:36]:
But don't also worry. Yeah. It's funny you mentioned that. I. It is. Maybe it's like a. Another form of it. You.
Eldar [00:40:43]:
This reminded me when me and Osley.
Gary [00:40:44]:
Were in the car and we got hit.
Eldar [00:40:46]:
Yeah.
Mike [00:40:46]:
She started panicking.
Eldar [00:40:48]:
Yeah. She. She's like, you know, and.
Mike [00:40:49]:
And she then days later, she's recount. Or the next day recounting, and she's like, yeah.
Eldar [00:40:54]:
It was so fascinating to watch you. I lean. I look over to your left.
Mike [00:40:58]:
To my left.
Eldar [00:40:59]:
And the first thing you say is. Yep. All right. Like, I was just kind of like all like, so.
Gary [00:41:06]:
Cuz I'm like, switched.
Mike [00:41:08]:
I just automatically switched to, like.
Eldar [00:41:09]:
Even though I'm literally absolutely angry or.
Mike [00:41:13]:
Worried, whatever's going on, it's a terrible situation. My car got wrecked, Right?
Eldar [00:41:17]:
Yeah. But now it's like, okay, I got.
Gary [00:41:19]:
This person who I know is.
Mike [00:41:21]:
I look over and she's in fear.
Eldar [00:41:22]:
And if. If I also do that, I'm going to just hurt her more and add to that. So I'm like, I'm gonna. Like you said, it is. I'm still masking something where internally I'm.
Gary [00:41:31]:
Fighting my own thing, but I have.
Eldar [00:41:32]:
To be, like, kind of strong person. So it's like, all right, we're gonna do xyz. Yep. Yep. That's it. Even if I'm still in the moment.
Gary [00:41:40]:
Trying to believe in myself.
Eldar [00:41:41]:
Yes. Yes.
Gary [00:41:42]:
But you just have to go.
Eldar [00:41:43]:
Yeah. Because otherwise it's like two people panicking. It's a wrap. Yeah. And that's why I think that's.
Gary [00:41:48]:
It's like that example that you brought with you and your friends, you and.
Mike [00:41:51]:
Joe in the woods and everything.
Eldar [00:41:53]:
Yes. When we got lost, me and Joe, like, yo, cut it out.
Mike [00:41:55]:
Let's just.
Eldar [00:41:56]:
Yeah. Was still worried. He probably was. He was just like, yo. But he saw that we were panicking.
Mike [00:42:01]:
It's funny. I was just thinking about my situation. I got lost in the woods, like, two years ago with no cell phone service. Just today in the morning.
Eldar [00:42:06]:
Yeah.
Mike [00:42:07]:
And I'm like, yo, I didn't worry. I didn't panic. I was like, yo, like, whatever. I'm gonna figure it out.
Eldar [00:42:10]:
Yeah.
Mike [00:42:11]:
I realized it's important to stay calm and collected and just to figure it out. And eventually, like, I just kept walking till I found the thing.
Eldar [00:42:18]:
Yeah. Yeah. Action gives you more opportunities to hopefully solve it.
Mike [00:42:21]:
Yeah. Because I guess the panicking, the worrying, it, like, up your whole.
Eldar [00:42:27]:
That's what Gary said earlier. Yeah. It fucks your whole thing. You might have the solution right in front of you. The ranch. Right.
Mike [00:42:31]:
The ranch is right there. You can't find it.
Eldar [00:42:32]:
You can't even find it because you're somewhere else.
Gary [00:42:35]:
That's a downside of being a person.
Eldar [00:42:39]:
Yeah. Yeah.
Gary [00:42:41]:
You pay price. Yeah. When I was. When we were in Italy, I lost Mike at the market.
Eldar [00:42:49]:
Yeah.
Toliy [00:42:50]:
Is it a milk market?
Mike [00:42:51]:
So is it.
Eldar [00:42:52]:
Yes. Is there a possibility that this is not your son?
Gary [00:42:55]:
And. And. And I told myself, I started panicking, and I told myself, if I let it continue, I will. I won't find him. And I pull myself together and I counted my steps back. No. And I found him.
Eldar [00:43:15]:
Yeah.
Gary [00:43:15]:
Because I left him with the bike. I went to check on the, you know, all the groceries.
Eldar [00:43:21]:
Yeah.
Gary [00:43:22]:
And. And instead of standing at the. By the bike, he followed me and I. And when it happened, I thought the only way he. He can do is follow me. And I went back and he was right there. It's funny, I also.
Eldar [00:43:37]:
My parents lost me in Bulgaria at a market. Now explains everything. This guy's also.
Toliy [00:43:42]:
Yeah.
Gary [00:43:43]:
Completely lost.
Mike [00:43:44]:
Some.
Eldar [00:43:44]:
Some like.
Mike [00:43:45]:
Some like, street.
Eldar [00:43:46]:
Street market guys. Yeah. Held on to me.
Mike [00:43:48]:
You gotta do DNA test. Yo.
Eldar [00:43:49]:
Yeah.
Mike [00:43:50]:
For me and D. Yeah.
Gary [00:43:51]:
This is true.
Eldar [00:43:53]:
And who found you? Did they found you or are you still lost?
Gary [00:43:58]:
Guy just kept holding me.
Eldar [00:43:59]:
Wow.
Toliy [00:43:59]:
And then they finally found me.
Eldar [00:44:01]:
Yeah. Wow. But they were in a panic.
Gary [00:44:02]:
Completely.
Eldar [00:44:03]:
Like, can you imagine you're in a foreign country and you lose your child. Yeah. Like. Yeah. You don't even speak the language. Yeah. It's a big difference between a person who panics or the person who goes into solving mode.
Gary [00:44:16]:
So now the question that I wanted to ask you. Does the person out of these two people, right. Out of these two categories, people who tend to worry and people who are calm, who has better chances to accomplish, like, better things, like business.
Eldar [00:44:42]:
That's a very deep question. It's a lot. That's a lot. That's a different next week topic or something. Who can accomplish more? The person who worries or person who is more collected and calm, but it's.
Gary [00:44:53]:
Relatable to the topic. It is, yeah. It's a good question.
Eldar [00:44:56]:
Yeah. We have a lot of questions to tackle. The next one is, is it effective? Is this love language effective through worrying? Why is she doing it? Right. It is effective. Is it? Is it? Maybe we're going into.
Toliy [00:45:11]:
I don't know if it's a matter of, like, effective or not. Like I think Gary said before, is that different people, like, know how to do, like, know how to show love or something like that in different, different ways. I'm not sure if they thought about. Is there like a better way? Is there a more effective way? Yeah, but. But it's not only like, worrying. Like, there is action. There is, like, stuff like that, but there is a lot of worry.
Eldar [00:45:37]:
No, that's what the whole point is. Yeah. We want to see whether or not it's effective and how it's affecting the individual that you're worrying about and the individual, you know, that is doing the worrying.
Toliy [00:45:46]:
Yeah, clearly. It's funny. It's. It's funny because, like, I know that I'm also, like, a worrier, but for Example when I'm with my family, like, when they worry, it gives him the. It completely.
Eldar [00:45:56]:
Wow.
Toliy [00:45:57]:
And I am the like. Like, yeah, like, because they're Next level.
Eldar [00:46:00]:
Word.
Toliy [00:46:00]:
Yeah. Right away, like, trying to put everyone together, be like, yo, everyone calm down. Like, stop this nonsense.
Mike [00:46:06]:
What do you guys usually worry about?
Eldar [00:46:08]:
Like, if they're sour, if the, the Chinese food place is open till 9.
Toliy [00:46:12]:
Oh, 9:30? Yeah.
Mike [00:46:15]:
Yes, that's what I was thinking.
Toliy [00:46:17]:
Yeah. There's all different stuff. Yeah, right. Like today my mom was getting the. I mean, today was an example. My, My mom was getting her, like, an eye procedure, right? And. And like, my mom's finished with it. She gets in my car, I help her, like, cross the street because she couldn't see, right? And.
Toliy [00:46:36]:
And she calls my grandma, right?
Eldar [00:46:38]:
Her.
Toliy [00:46:38]:
Her.
Gary [00:46:38]:
Her mom.
Toliy [00:46:39]:
And right away my grandma's like, oh, my God, I was worrying so much. Like, I don't know what to do with myself. Like, I was just sitting here, Like.
Eldar [00:46:46]:
I was just like, how did she react to it? How did your mom react to it? To what she was saying?
Toliy [00:46:51]:
Oh, I mean, like, my, My mom was trying to calm her down and I was like. And I was talking like, yo, take her off speaker. Like, I can listen to this.
Eldar [00:46:58]:
Okay.
Toliy [00:46:59]:
Right. Cuz, like, she's talking the phone so loud and she's just displaying so much panic. Like, it makes me feel terrible.
Eldar [00:47:05]:
Like I make your mom feel. Is it like, kind of like, oh, thank God she's worried for me because she's clearly displaying love language.
Mike [00:47:11]:
Oh, no way. Your mom got the ick too, or.
Toliy [00:47:13]:
No, the thing is this, that my mom sometimes gets the ick, but when I'm with my mom, I remind my mom that this is exactly what, what.
Eldar [00:47:21]:
You do to you.
Toliy [00:47:22]:
Yeah. And my mom is like, I know, I know. Like, you know, like, she'll. She'll say that. So she doesn't. She does not get the ick as.
Mike [00:47:28]:
Much as I do. You guys think that that's the whole thing?
Eldar [00:47:33]:
That's what I'm asking. Is it effective? Right. Clearly the grandma is showing love through worrying here. Right, but is it effective?
Toliy [00:47:41]:
Is it if you were to hear.
Eldar [00:47:42]:
What she was trying to be accomplished?
Gary [00:47:43]:
In most cases, most likely not.
Eldar [00:47:45]:
In most cases, most likely not.
Toliy [00:47:47]:
Yeah, but the person who's worrying at the moment doesn't feel that way, Right? They feel like that's what I'm saying is, I'm telling you, there's some kind of energy thing that is happening here. The person worrying feels that it is.
Eldar [00:48:00]:
Actually helping you know, that's just nuts.
Toliy [00:48:02]:
I'm telling you, in most cases.
Eldar [00:48:05]:
Oh my God, you're doing some magic here.
Mike [00:48:08]:
No, I'm telling that it's not magic. I'm trying to. I understand what he's saying, but it's not.
Eldar [00:48:14]:
Her grandma is actually curing his mom's vision through worrying.
Mike [00:48:18]:
Yeah.
Toliy [00:48:18]:
Like if you're there, it's your way of being. Like. Like for example, I feel like the vibe I get from like a parent to a kid.
Eldar [00:48:25]:
You believe like.
Toliy [00:48:26]:
No.
Eldar [00:48:27]:
Okay.
Toliy [00:48:27]:
No, there. I think that there's like. Do I believe it's existing? Yes.
Eldar [00:48:31]:
No. But if it works. Yeah. It's effective.
Toliy [00:48:34]:
No, I'm saying that I believe that. What in like my observations. That when there's a parent and kid scenario, for example.
Eldar [00:48:41]:
Uh huh.
Toliy [00:48:42]:
Right. By worrying, like when you're worrying, you kind of feel a bit. A bit helpless.
Gary [00:48:49]:
Right.
Toliy [00:48:49]:
Like, I don't know, like Gary doesn't know where Mike is. He can't do anything.
Eldar [00:48:52]:
Yeah.
Toliy [00:48:53]:
Like if there's people attacking him, he can't help fend them off. Right.
Eldar [00:48:56]:
Yeah.
Toliy [00:48:56]:
Nothing. Right. So because he, like he can't, he almost feels that moment tied. Like the power of worrying gets channeled to Mike to help him.
Eldar [00:49:07]:
Okay. Wow.
Mike [00:49:08]:
My. My thought before I lost it. Lose it before because I lost it again.
Eldar [00:49:11]:
I got one too. Yeah, go ahead.
Mike [00:49:14]:
My thing is that with the worrying.
Eldar [00:49:16]:
Yeah.
Mike [00:49:19]:
We worry because in that subject, we feel like we no longer have a choice in the matter. That we can change the outcome.
Eldar [00:49:29]:
Okay.
Mike [00:49:30]:
So like our parents worry about us because they think we're retards for life.
Eldar [00:49:33]:
Mm.
Mike [00:49:33]:
Oh, sorry. Our parents worry about us because. Because they think we're incompetent for life.
Toliy [00:49:38]:
No, but I think it's a moment to moment basis.
Eldar [00:49:41]:
It is. I agree with that too.
Toliy [00:49:42]:
Yeah.
Eldar [00:49:43]:
But in general.
Toliy [00:49:44]:
But in general, they may have a theory in general that you are not competent. But I'm saying in the moment of worrying, I don't think they're thinking about the whole picture.
Mike [00:49:51]:
I think worrying is not supposed to be logical. How are you apply logic?
Eldar [00:49:56]:
No situation.
Toliy [00:49:58]:
Yeah, no, I say. I, I agree. In general, parents do not feel that their kids are competent. That that's 100.
Mike [00:50:03]:
And I think that they. That, that that matter. That they weren't.
Eldar [00:50:06]:
Unless they reach their. Their. Their dream of them. Unless the kids reach the dream that the parents had for them.
Gary [00:50:12]:
No, no, I disagree. You're right. It's case by case. Like in my.
Mike [00:50:18]:
You're worried because you think that based on my previous track record that I'm gonna be an idiot for life. I've proven to be an idiot.
Gary [00:50:25]:
No, absolutely.
Mike [00:50:26]:
And that's why you kind of close.
Toliy [00:50:27]:
The L. You're so far an idiot.
Mike [00:50:29]:
Not.
Toliy [00:50:29]:
Not that you're an idiot for life.
Eldar [00:50:30]:
But you're so far.
Toliy [00:50:32]:
You. Yeah, so far you've proven to be an idiot.
Eldar [00:50:35]:
You have a back record.
Toliy [00:50:36]:
It is valid for him to be.
Eldar [00:50:37]:
Concerned unless you show him otherwise.
Mike [00:50:39]:
Yes, yes, yes.
Toliy [00:50:41]:
Yeah.
Gary [00:50:41]:
No, no, he is. In fact, he did show otherwise. So I'm not worried that he will do something stupid. I'm worried that something might happen.
Mike [00:50:51]:
Yeah, like, especially.
Eldar [00:50:52]:
Especially random things back then.
Gary [00:50:55]:
When he is in the city. When he is in the city.
Eldar [00:50:57]:
Yeah.
Gary [00:50:58]:
And there is a lot of things going on in the city lately. Past few years. Right. When he's in the city. I'm worried. Another thing is Mike likes to leave his wallet in the car. So I'm worried that. And if his car's standing in the city for hours, somebody will find out.
Eldar [00:51:20]:
That it's in there and go with it.
Gary [00:51:21]:
Somebody will break.
Mike [00:51:22]:
Break it and what.
Gary [00:51:23]:
That's another reason for worrying.
Mike [00:51:25]:
But what's going to happen if somebody breaks in and takes my wallet?
Gary [00:51:27]:
They will break. And they'll take your wallet and what? And then you have a problem restoring your documents.
Eldar [00:51:36]:
You did it several times.
Gary [00:51:37]:
Probably.
Mike [00:51:37]:
I never. I never had to do it.
Gary [00:51:39]:
You never did that before.
Eldar [00:51:40]:
You know how many times I lost my wallet?
Mike [00:51:42]:
Maybe once.
Gary [00:51:43]:
But yeah, Paris always find things. But to say that we worried because you guys are stupid. Absolutely not.
Mike [00:51:51]:
No. Because you guys don't think that we're.
Eldar [00:51:52]:
Crying this out, right?
Gary [00:51:53]:
Absolutely.
Eldar [00:51:54]:
Yeah. But you know, your example, Gary, for him to go in the city and somebody breaking into the thing and into the car. Yeah, but that's, you know, sure, it could happen. But check this out. Somebody actually broke into my car in my driveway while I was sleeping at three in the morning. They broke into the whole. Everybody's car on that whole block. In some cars, the doors weren't open.
Eldar [00:52:13]:
Like, mine was actually open because it was at home. I didn't lock my car. They broke the windows. Right. They just got in and then they got this. My wallet. You know, it's quicker. Yeah.
Gary [00:52:24]:
Break the window, then try to open the car.
Eldar [00:52:25]:
Yeah, they opened the car and they took my wallet. So I have an option here. Yeah. For the first day I was like, oh, man, I'm a little bit worried. Like, this is crazy. Yada, yada. But then I thought about, like, what is there to worry about? You know, like, he didn't select me for my house purposely me to get something out of my thing right now.
Toliy [00:52:44]:
Spray painted, like Uzbekistan or something on your car. And so only your car was the one vandalized then you might be.
Mike [00:52:51]:
No, but what Gary said. I don't know. I don't know.
Eldar [00:52:53]:
But I'm saying. What I'm saying is that, like, I'm not gonna go live my life worrying that somebody else is gonna go into my car and target me. Right?
Mike [00:52:59]:
Yes.
Eldar [00:53:00]:
Like, I'm not sure if that's an effective or good.
Mike [00:53:03]:
No, but what he said. What he said, I think is big. What he said is Mike always leaves his wallet.
Eldar [00:53:10]:
That's what I'm saying, in the car.
Mike [00:53:11]:
Therefore, Mike is an idiot for leaving his wallet in the car.
Eldar [00:53:14]:
Yeah, but I leave my. That's what I'm saying. I'm leaving my wallet in my driveway, and this can happen. But I'm not laying there, sitting there by chance, thinking that I'm gonna win the lotto ticket.
Toliy [00:53:23]:
Yeah, but then by doing that, you should not leave your wallet in the car, period.
Mike [00:53:27]:
But he's saying that I'm stupid, therefore, he worries about me for leaving the wallet in the car. A thing that has no. Like, one time, my car got you, but not him. My car got towed in the city once. I didn't know where it went. You know, like, I mean. Yeah, that's like. Okay, that's problematic.
Mike [00:53:46]:
But, like, you're talking about a wallet in my car.
Eldar [00:53:50]:
Yeah.
Mike [00:53:51]:
And this is what's worrying him in the middle of night.
Eldar [00:53:53]:
Yeah, I don't. Yeah. I don't see how you can worry for a thing versus worrying for a son. Right. One thing is worrying for a son.
Gary [00:53:59]:
If you want to worry, you're always fine.
Eldar [00:54:01]:
No, my.
Toliy [00:54:01]:
My parents have this wallet thing, for example. Always with me.
Mike [00:54:05]:
But you always lose your wallet.
Toliy [00:54:06]:
But I. I do leave my wallet.
Mike [00:54:08]:
And you also probably tell your parents.
Eldar [00:54:09]:
I conditioned my parents for that. I just say I never know where my wallet is, and after a while, they stop asking.
Gary [00:54:15]:
But after. After somebody broke into your car, did you stop leaving car unlocked?
Eldar [00:54:20]:
No, I didn't.
Gary [00:54:22]:
You still leave it unlocked?
Eldar [00:54:23]:
Sometimes it's still unlocked. Yes. And. And my wallet is still in the car. Wow. Like, I'm not. I don't think I'm gonna win another lottery is what I'm saying. That some random guy.
Toliy [00:54:32]:
If I do, then you gotta play the lottery.
Eldar [00:54:34]:
He's gonna break the window. So it's almost. It's almost smart to leave the car open. Right?
Toliy [00:54:41]:
Don't leave the wallet, period in there.
Eldar [00:54:43]:
No, sure. But I don't want my window to be broken. Right. So you should leave the car open because the other cars got broken into.
Mike [00:54:51]:
Like, windows are smashed.
Gary [00:54:53]:
I really, I really don't want anybody get in my car. That's why I keep them in the garage.
Eldar [00:54:59]:
Well, sure, you have a garage if.
Gary [00:55:00]:
There is a solution. You have a garage you need to use?
Eldar [00:55:03]:
Yeah. Oh, I have two cars. I only have one car garage. One day, maybe I'll have two car garage. Then if Dennis does a good job.
Gary [00:55:08]:
Well, then, then you should probably think about some other. I don't know.
Eldar [00:55:13]:
Well, look, cameras. I see the guy. The guy got caught.
Gary [00:55:16]:
Cameras don't. Cameras don't help.
Mike [00:55:18]:
Yeah, but again, but again, these are things.
Eldar [00:55:20]:
Plus I didn't want to wake up to, to, you know, to confronting some birds, burglar, some maybe, you know, angry drug addict or whatever and fighting him for a while. Like, take my shit and leave.
Mike [00:55:28]:
Yeah.
Eldar [00:55:29]:
You know, like, I'm not.
Toliy [00:55:30]:
But then it also comes down to like, value. See, like, like, like Mike, he doesn't care. Like.
Mike [00:55:35]:
No, he's saying that he worries about me, but it sounds like he's saying.
Eldar [00:55:38]:
He'S worried about the wallet and the car.
Toliy [00:55:40]:
Well, because the wallet is worried about trivial.
Gary [00:55:42]:
What I said. You should listen carefully what I said.
Mike [00:55:45]:
But the example that you gave, I said is the wallet.
Gary [00:55:48]:
No, what I said was I'm worried when Mike is in the city because what's going on in the city.
Eldar [00:55:52]:
Yeah.
Gary [00:55:53]:
I also worried because you like to leave your wallet in the car and when your car is sitting there for hours in the city.
Mike [00:56:00]:
And do you consider that reckless behavior to leave the wallet in the car?
Gary [00:56:04]:
Yes.
Mike [00:56:05]:
Careless behavior.
Eldar [00:56:07]:
How about this? On a scale of one to ten in the city.
Gary [00:56:11]:
Yes.
Eldar [00:56:12]:
One to ten. Yeah. One being you don't worry at all. To ten being you worried a lot and you're panicking. How much do you care? How much do you worry from 1 to 10 about him being safe versus the wallet? How much does the wallet get and how much does your son get? What do you think, one through 10? I hope that the son gets 10 and the wallet gets two or three.
Gary [00:56:31]:
But you shouldn't even ask them.
Eldar [00:56:33]:
No, I just want to see where it lies on the thing where it's like if it's insignificant, two or three, the wallet that you don't even have to think.
Gary [00:56:38]:
Well, I'm worried. I'll tell you why I'm worried about the wallet. Because if somebody stole your Wall if you lost a while, it creates huge inconvenience. Right?
Eldar [00:56:48]:
Yeah.
Gary [00:56:48]:
Because then you need to go to a motor vehicle. You need to call every single.
Eldar [00:56:55]:
Why do you care about that if that's your son's problem? I don't say like you're living out.
Mike [00:56:59]:
The problem because he's worried that I'm not competent and I make mistakes and he wants to solve them for me. He does not trust me.
Eldar [00:57:06]:
It sounds like he wants to do.
Gary [00:57:07]:
Preventative care to individual that taking wallet out to your car, out of your car is an easy solution. That's it. It's just, I just.
Mike [00:57:15]:
I understand, I understand what you're saying, but for me.
Eldar [00:57:18]:
Yeah, but how about the convenience that he.
Mike [00:57:19]:
The value proposition.
Eldar [00:57:21]:
What's the value between him leaving. Like, I leave my wallet in the car all the time because I don't want to carry it. And I tend to lose my wallet if I sit right there. I'm going to lose it in between the cracks and I'm not going to find it for two weeks. And that gives me more worry. However, right now I know exactly what my wallet is. It's in the car. It's right here in the glove box.
Eldar [00:57:38]:
Right, right.
Gary [00:57:38]:
Your car is sitting on, on that parking lot.
Eldar [00:57:41]:
No, sure, sure, sure.
Gary [00:57:42]:
But doesn't matter where the city. It's different because I also go to the city because, because there is a pretty, pretty big statistics. Car being stolen, car, car being broke. Right. I don't care if he leaves the wallet.
Eldar [00:57:55]:
Yeah.
Gary [00:57:56]:
On my driveway. I mean in the car, in the driver or in the. And it's not like I'm worried about it all the time. I, you know, I stop paying attention to that. No, of course, if Mike is in the city, it's like let's say 3:00 in the morning and he's not responding like, because I, you know, I sometimes I check on him.
Mike [00:58:18]:
But the thing here is that the fundamental disagreement with the way that Mike does things, therefore Mike is not competent.
Toliy [00:58:24]:
In the area, but does things. And also like, I could picture it like for my mom, if my mom had lost her wallet and all the processes that, like how difficult it would be, for example, for her to call everything to do everything versus us.
Eldar [00:58:39]:
Yeah.
Toliy [00:58:39]:
Like he'll call those like three, four credit card companies like this.
Eldar [00:58:44]:
Yeah. So, yeah, to us, Gary. To me at least. Right. I'll speak for myself. Not carrying a wallet and worrying about losing it all the time, which I do. Right. Does not over.
Eldar [00:58:54]:
It does not overweighs the chance of.
Toliy [00:58:57]:
It being broken into.
Eldar [00:58:58]:
Yeah. The mere chance, I think, which is a lottery ticket for it to be my car to break. To be broken into and stolen in my car. So, like, I'd rather go through the inconvenience once every, I don't know, three, five years of somebody stealing it from me versus carrying it all the time, having the inconvenience, worrying about it all the time. Where is it? How is it? And I remember you being like that all the time. He used to drive. He used to go like this in the middle of driving.
Gary [00:59:25]:
There is. There is a.
Eldar [00:59:26]:
You remember this? No, I don't see you do this anymore, Eldar, because what happened, right?
Gary [00:59:32]:
There is a solution. There is a. There is an easy solution.
Toliy [00:59:35]:
Like that.
Eldar [00:59:35]:
Literally, he's going into, like, what's.
Gary [00:59:37]:
There is an easy solution.
Eldar [00:59:38]:
Yeah.
Gary [00:59:39]:
You want to hear it?
Eldar [00:59:40]:
Yeah. Digital wallet.
Gary [00:59:42]:
Keep your car at home. Keep your wallet at home. I don't take my wallet. Every time I draw, I go somewhere.
Eldar [00:59:48]:
Oh, I mean, I would love to.
Gary [00:59:50]:
I only take my wallet.
Eldar [00:59:51]:
I agree with you.
Gary [00:59:52]:
I only take my wallet when I go on the long rides.
Eldar [00:59:54]:
Digital wallet. I agree with you.
Gary [00:59:56]:
No, I don't have. I don't. I don't bring a wallet with me at all.
Mike [00:59:59]:
But then you.
Eldar [01:00:01]:
I agree with you.
Gary [01:00:02]:
I'd rather explain my. You know, the police officer.
Eldar [01:00:05]:
I agree with you, Gary. And my wife takes your advice.
Gary [01:00:09]:
Then lose it. I lose it. I lose it. I forget it.
Eldar [01:00:12]:
I agree with you. 100. I'd rather get a ticket not having my wallet right once a year rather than carrying and worrying about it and.
Gary [01:00:18]:
Rather than going to motor vehicle to. To restore it.
Eldar [01:00:21]:
I agree with you. I agree with you 100%.
Toliy [01:00:24]:
But then the question comes down to.
Eldar [01:00:25]:
Also is like, he's right.
Gary [01:00:26]:
Keep it. Keep it in your.
Eldar [01:00:29]:
I'd rather have a digital license and tell, hey, officer, here's my license, my picture. I'm sorry, I. I forgot it at home on my credit card. You can pay with your phone.
Gary [01:00:37]:
And also. And also because you don't need to carry your credit card.
Eldar [01:00:40]:
You're 100, right.
Gary [01:00:41]:
Your credit cards are on your phone.
Eldar [01:00:42]:
You're 100, right?
Gary [01:00:43]:
You. You never leave your home or your car without the phone.
Eldar [01:00:46]:
Right?
Gary [01:00:47]:
That's it.
Eldar [01:00:47]:
All right, guys, so if we didn't solve the worrying and the love part, we definitely solved one thing. If you. If you're worrying about carrying your wallet around there, stop carrying your wallet. Leave it as at home, and that's it. Forget about it. You're gonna solve a lot of problems.
Gary [01:00:59]:
It's.
Eldar [01:01:00]:
Yeah, you. You most likely not going to get pulled over every. Every month to get. Get a ticket. And if you do be polite, show your license through your phone and then say, officer, I left it at home. I'm so sorry. While I'm driving my wife's car. I'm so sorry.
Eldar [01:01:12]:
You know what I mean? And stuff like that. Yeah, Yeah, I agree with you. Yeah.
Toliy [01:01:17]:
It might be better just.
Eldar [01:01:18]:
It might be better leave it at home. Yeah.
Toliy [01:01:20]:
It's also like, how often do you actually use it? Even if.
Eldar [01:01:23]:
Unless you go to a club or bar.
Toliy [01:01:24]:
Yeah.
Eldar [01:01:25]:
But we don't get id. We got beards.
Mike [01:01:27]:
Yeah.
Eldar [01:01:28]:
You know what I'm saying? Nowadays, when do we get id Nowadays? Nobody really. No.
Mike [01:01:32]:
But I guess the back to the actual thing behind it though.
Eldar [01:01:36]:
Or what if you leave it in the trunk?
Mike [01:01:38]:
The second trunk underneath the trunk.
Gary [01:01:41]:
What if you.
Eldar [01:01:41]:
Or the front.
Toliy [01:01:43]:
Or the front.
Eldar [01:01:44]:
Yeah. You know, you have bigger.
Mike [01:01:45]:
You can't worry about every possible outcome. That's why you have to like. For me, I want to like the same thing you said. For me, the comfort of not having to carry it is always the risk of it on a chance of it getting stolen.
Eldar [01:01:59]:
Yeah.
Mike [01:02:00]:
I hate carrying in my pockets.
Eldar [01:02:01]:
Yeah.
Mike [01:02:01]:
I always think it's gonna fall out.
Eldar [01:02:03]:
Yeah. Yeah, me too. Me too.
Mike [01:02:04]:
Like today we're walking around, I was like holding on to it in a sense to check it every few minutes to make sure it's there because these.
Eldar [01:02:10]:
Are small pockets and you got loose pants.
Gary [01:02:13]:
In the summer, summertime, it's a big issue.
Eldar [01:02:15]:
Yeah.
Gary [01:02:16]:
I just don't bring it with me.
Eldar [01:02:17]:
There might be a statistic. Probably people. It's even bigger.
Toliy [01:02:20]:
No, for me it's even bigger in the winter time.
Eldar [01:02:22]:
Oh really?
Toliy [01:02:22]:
I wear sweatpants all the time.
Mike [01:02:24]:
Oh yeah, Sweatpants.
Toliy [01:02:25]:
Amazing shorts.
Eldar [01:02:26]:
Yeah, they fall right out.
Toliy [01:02:28]:
They fall right out.
Eldar [01:02:28]:
You're right. Cool. Gary, thank you so much. I definitely will look into that. I'm probably gonna leave my wallet at home.
Toliy [01:02:33]:
Yeah.
Gary [01:02:34]:
I wish I was right. I wish there was shoes that had a pocket.
Eldar [01:02:39]:
Hey, let's give this out right now.
Gary [01:02:40]:
On the air for a license and. Yeah, and.
Mike [01:02:44]:
And what if you got nice shoes on in my jacket, Right?
Eldar [01:02:46]:
Yeah, just unzip it like this. They will have that watch. He said it.
Mike [01:02:49]:
They're gonna have the wall, the ID soon on the digital. It's just not in New Jersey. They have it in some states already, but not really.
Eldar [01:02:54]:
I agree. 100.
Gary [01:02:55]:
Look, it happens to you not because you're special. It happens to everyone. Everyone loses. So we have their violence all the time. Everybody.
Mike [01:03:04]:
Yeah.
Eldar [01:03:04]:
Unnecessary worries.
Gary [01:03:06]:
If somebody is not losing it, they're lucky. They're lucky guys.
Eldar [01:03:09]:
You're right. You're right.
Mike [01:03:11]:
Yeah.
Eldar [01:03:12]:
Yeah. So, you know, we just subject ourselves to worrying for no reason, but that's a different worry. Okay, so what does it accomplish? Worrying in the form of showing love language. Your love language. What does it.
Gary [01:03:25]:
I don't think. I don't think it's a positive quality.
Eldar [01:03:27]:
You don't think it's a positive.
Mike [01:03:28]:
Yeah, I think based on toy example, I think it pushes the people actually away. Well, if you grandma.
Eldar [01:03:35]:
No, not. Not if they keep exchanging it back and forth the same way. If the grandma is not feeling well, the mom is doing it to her and vice versa. So they constantly pedaling the same. I care for you by worrying. Yeah, right. So it's like, when do you stop it? Like, say, like, hey, I no longer speak that language. Can you please stop worrying for me this morning much like, sooner or later somebody's gonna feel offended because they're like, oh, like, actually, the reason why I worry for you so much is because I care and I love you.
Eldar [01:04:05]:
Unless you have a philosophical conversation with them and ready to have that kind of thing. Are you serious?
Toliy [01:04:16]:
I took him out twice.
Eldar [01:04:17]:
You did?
Gary [01:04:17]:
Okay, so what. What is he trying to say?
Eldar [01:04:20]:
Trying to say he's a little bit.
Gary [01:04:21]:
Hungry, but Stacy does it all the time.
Eldar [01:04:23]:
I'll give. I'll give you food. I hear you. I hear you. How's the nose?
Mike [01:04:27]:
Cold.
Eldar [01:04:29]:
Yeah, so. Yeah, so this is what I'm saying. Like somebody, sooner or later the mom. Right. Or the grandma has to say, hey, I don't want you no longer to worry about me. I'm all right. And this is not the way I want you to care anymore.
Mike [01:04:40]:
But then. But the thing is, the logical thing has to happen. The mom has to understand that this worrying, like, I think the worrying. People who worry in this situation, like the totally thing, they think about it as a good thing, but once they understand that it's not a good thing, then they will stop doing that.
Toliy [01:04:58]:
Yeah, I would say that, like. No, the way that my understanding of worrying and like how. I mean, not. Not as much anymore, but how was worrying is. Like when you start realizing what's happening, you get like a feeling that like. Like. Like you're actively, like, ruining your life by doing this. Like, that's how it feels.
Eldar [01:05:17]:
Wait, what? What?
Toliy [01:05:19]:
Like this constant, like, worry thing. Right? Once you start, like logically talking about it, you know, over and over again. And like deducing certain things and you're seeing like how much energy and time it takes to actually continuously worry about all these different things.
Eldar [01:05:35]:
So here it is. I actually. This is very good that you're going towards the time. How long. The time it takes. I, I actually think that worrying actually occupies a very important time that we need to use. It's almost like it's viral. Right.
Eldar [01:05:48]:
So we need to worry constantly to fill up the time in our day. I actually think that because we don't have trained. Because we don't have anything better to.
Gary [01:05:59]:
Do or you don't know a better way.
Mike [01:06:02]:
Correct.
Gary [01:06:03]:
To express.
Eldar [01:06:04]:
Correct.
Gary [01:06:04]:
Express your love.
Mike [01:06:06]:
You love or you haven't.
Eldar [01:06:07]:
Very good. Yeah, I agree with you.
Mike [01:06:08]:
You haven't figured it out.
Eldar [01:06:09]:
Yeah. You haven't figured out a better way to express it.
Gary [01:06:11]:
Exactly.
Mike [01:06:12]:
No, I'm thinking you haven't figured out that is, that is the, the truth in the situation. So you worry. You actually haven't taken the time to think about.
Eldar [01:06:19]:
Yes.
Mike [01:06:20]:
What's the truth here?
Eldar [01:06:20]:
Correct. Correct. I agree with that.
Mike [01:06:23]:
You know, like about that thing that you're worrying about.
Gary [01:06:25]:
Some people have different ways expressing their love. If we're talking about love.
Eldar [01:06:29]:
Yes, yes, we are talking.
Gary [01:06:31]:
Some people don't and they just worry because they think that's how they prove.
Eldar [01:06:36]:
Would you say then it's a very primitive way of displaying love?
Gary [01:06:40]:
Absolutely. Yes, absolutely. Definitely.
Eldar [01:06:42]:
Wow, Gary. Perfect. Perfect guest appearance from a parent.
Gary [01:06:46]:
Not even gonna deny.
Eldar [01:06:47]:
Who's not being biased.
Gary [01:06:48]:
Absolutely. Wow. Primitive. Yes.
Eldar [01:06:50]:
Very primitive.
Toliy [01:06:52]:
Yeah.
Eldar [01:06:52]:
You go back to your mom right now and say, mom, actually the way you've been displaying love to me this whole time, right through worrying, your way of displaying love. Your love language is very primitive. What kind of reaction will you get?
Gary [01:07:03]:
Oh, she probably gonna get offended.
Mike [01:07:05]:
Oh, yeah, yeah.
Gary [01:07:06]:
It's not easy. It's not easy to, to. To. For parents. It's not easy to accept it.
Eldar [01:07:13]:
Wow.
Gary [01:07:13]:
I accept it because I know.
Eldar [01:07:15]:
Wow. That's very interesting.
Gary [01:07:16]:
No, nobody goes to parenting school. Right. Like, look, look at the people who brought me up. Right. You don't know. Right. Mike knows or look at like family that parents that brought my wife's up. She doesn't all.
Gary [01:07:35]:
She knows that she needs to worry. She doesn't know any other ways to express it.
Eldar [01:07:39]:
Yeah, yeah. No, I think that, yeah, especially, especially because you're a parent that you have that if you. You're being truthful, obviously.
Gary [01:07:46]:
Absolutely.
Eldar [01:07:47]:
Very good insight, you know, from a parent who's saying, hey, look, the Reason why I'm displaying it this way is because I've never learned how to do it any other way. And it was passed down to me from my parents, who also did this type of job. Right. And so on and so on. So.
Toliy [01:08:01]:
Yeah. I think it also comes a difficulty when, like, if that's what's happening and the child, for example, like, realizes that, like. Like I don't.
Eldar [01:08:11]:
Like.
Toliy [01:08:11]:
Like this.
Eldar [01:08:12]:
Right.
Toliy [01:08:12]:
Like, I don't like this kind of form of love. Right. Like, how do you. Yeah. Like, without offending the parent, how do you communicate that to the parent? Yes, because, like, they're not raising their hand saying, like, hey, I have a problem. I have a primitive way of showing love, and I need to change. I need help. Right.
Toliy [01:08:29]:
But then it's like, like, like, yeah, like, I. I know that my mom loves me like that. It's not even, like, up for discussion. Right. But. And. But there are times where she's worrying more and stuff like that. And like.
Eldar [01:08:45]:
Yeah.
Toliy [01:08:45]:
Like, it makes me feel worse when I'm feeling that energy of, like, the worrying.
Eldar [01:08:49]:
Yeah.
Toliy [01:08:50]:
Right. So now. Yeah. When I'm around them and. And I sense it, it make like it like my alarm rings like this. Like, I'm, like, right away.
Gary [01:08:57]:
I can. I can give you another example of parents being primitive. Ready? So when parents trying to feed their children or their grandchildren. Right. I'm gonna feed you. You have to eat. You have to eat. Have this, have that.
Gary [01:09:17]:
That's an expression of love, right? Isn't it? Or did you eat today? Why don't you eat? Or haven't eaten anything? Right. Like Irina running after Francisco all day, trying to feed him in the morning, in the afternoon, in the evening. That's expression of love. That's expression of worry. And it's primitive. It's very primitive because she doesn't know how to get a lot of that kind of stuff. You said nobody goes to parenting school. Maybe we should have parenting school.
Gary [01:09:50]:
You know, if you can start one, I'm sure a lot of people.
Eldar [01:09:54]:
Yeah. Like, why isn't there a parenting school for this important.
Gary [01:09:56]:
Well, when we grew up in Soviet Union, the only school we know is how to love your motherland.
Eldar [01:10:05]:
Wow.
Gary [01:10:06]:
That's.
Eldar [01:10:07]:
Wow.
Gary [01:10:08]:
We didn't have any other.
Eldar [01:10:09]:
Look at that. Yeah. That's history for you right there.
Mike [01:10:12]:
Yeah.
Eldar [01:10:12]:
Yeah.
Gary [01:10:12]:
That was the only school we had.
Eldar [01:10:14]:
Yeah. So love your motherland. Yeah. Yeah.
Gary [01:10:16]:
Like you would think, right?
Eldar [01:10:17]:
This difficult job of, like, caring for another human being. Yep. We don't really have a grasp on.
Gary [01:10:23]:
Educational system for that, you know, motherland in. In the face of communist party was the only love that you were instilled. So. So don't blame your parents too much.
Eldar [01:10:36]:
Yeah, totally. Like, you know, like, for example, your sister, right, who is right now a young, you know, teenager in college, right? And wants to go and have fun and enjoy herself. And she will, obviously, right? She doesn't want her mom on her back, single every single hour to tell her where she's at. Where she's at. What does she say? What's her rebuttal? Mom, leave me alone. I'm okay. Everything is fine. Right? Like, she clearly is displaying, like, I don't like you thinking and worrying about me.
Eldar [01:11:04]:
Why? Because she senses that the mom is doing it because she's incompetent.
Mike [01:11:10]:
Yes.
Eldar [01:11:10]:
Right. Like, why? Leave me alone. Everything's okay. I got this. I'm smart. I'm smarter than that. You know, when you. When parents start telling you like, oh, be careful of this, be careful.
Eldar [01:11:19]:
No, I'm not gonna do that.
Mike [01:11:20]:
You crazy.
Eldar [01:11:20]:
You know, they clearly show that. I don't want to hear this. I don't want to hear this type of worrying. You stop worrying for me, you know, so.
Toliy [01:11:27]:
Yeah, but do you think that enough worrying teaches you to do better?
Gary [01:11:32]:
No, it does.
Mike [01:11:33]:
Enough worrying.
Eldar [01:11:34]:
What, it's impossible?
Toliy [01:11:35]:
No. Like, do you think that, like, my mom constantly, like, showing.
Eldar [01:11:40]:
It just shows that your mom has not understood it or got it.
Gary [01:11:43]:
It doesn't teach you anything.
Mike [01:11:44]:
Yeah, it's a logical. It's a logic.
Toliy [01:11:46]:
No, but is it a reminder of, like, yo, I to do the right thing? My mom is worried.
Mike [01:11:50]:
No.
Eldar [01:11:51]:
Well, that's the thing. That's what the next question is, right? Is it effective or what does it accomplish? Does it actually accomplish that?
Mike [01:11:59]:
No kid has ever done what their parents said to do.
Eldar [01:12:02]:
Yeah, exactly. All the parents are like, hey, do this, do this, do this. And the kids like, no, leave me alone.
Toliy [01:12:07]:
Leave me alone.
Eldar [01:12:08]:
Leave me alone. Like, come on. You know what I'm saying? The parents is almost mission is to prove it out. That, like, look, you see? Like, I was worried for you and this happened to you. This bad shit happened to you. I told you so, you know, like, this is a way of learning. Like, this is the exchange that you want to teach your kid. Almost like, it sounds pretty ridiculous and primitive.
Toliy [01:12:27]:
Yeah, I've definitely had that. I mean, if you remember that first time I got Covid.
Eldar [01:12:31]:
Oh, yeah, right. Yeah, I was.
Toliy [01:12:34]:
I mean. I mean, I was very sick. You know, I had a very high fever for a Very long time.
Eldar [01:12:39]:
Yeah.
Toliy [01:12:40]:
And I was, I mean, I was sick for a while.
Eldar [01:12:42]:
Yeah.
Toliy [01:12:42]:
And like, I told my mom that, like, hey, like, you know, like, like, like I was explaining that, like, hey, like, I have my own methods here of like, of getting better.
Eldar [01:12:53]:
Okay.
Toliy [01:12:54]:
Right. And because, like, I guess I, I, I mean, I didn't follow through with them to the T of how I was talking about them for first off.
Eldar [01:13:02]:
Yeah.
Toliy [01:13:02]:
Right. And even if I did, it didn't work out well. Like, my mom always after that brought up is like, you remember when you had Covid? What happened? You didn't listen to me.
Eldar [01:13:14]:
Yeah. She used it against you. Yeah.
Toliy [01:13:16]:
And now every time any of those scenarios would happen, like the second time around, when we got Covid.
Eldar [01:13:21]:
Yeah.
Toliy [01:13:21]:
Right, right. She, she always reminded me, he's like, you remember the last time?
Eldar [01:13:25]:
Yep. You better follow suit. Yeah.
Toliy [01:13:26]:
You remember. You didn't listen to me.
Eldar [01:13:28]:
Yeah.
Toliy [01:13:29]:
Remember what happened?
Mike [01:13:29]:
Parents, like, I see us a lot of times not competent or dumb for the.
Eldar [01:13:34]:
Who? The parents.
Mike [01:13:36]:
The parents.
Eldar [01:13:36]:
Yes. A lot of things you said a lot of times, like, it's not even their fault.
Toliy [01:13:40]:
No.
Mike [01:13:40]:
Because.
Eldar [01:13:41]:
Yeah. Because of the way they grew up as well.
Toliy [01:13:44]:
Should they worry if, if they actually give it. Given, like a reason to worry. Is that valid or.
Eldar [01:13:51]:
No, if they actually give a real reason. I think so. Like, it's inevitable if you have love for your kids, competent and you're doing something stupid and your parents like, oh, my God, he's about to fall. Right. They can say, I'm worried that they're going to get hurt. They're going to get a bloody nose. Or they can say, you know what? They need a bloody nose. Let them learn this way.
Eldar [01:14:11]:
That's another way of doing it.
Toliy [01:14:12]:
But also, like, if the kid is, for example, like a knucklehead. Right. And they're doing knucklehead things.
Eldar [01:14:18]:
Yeah.
Toliy [01:14:19]:
It's going to make sense, whatever's happening to them. Right. So, like, it's inevitable. Right. Like if they're stupid and they're doing stupid.
Eldar [01:14:26]:
Yeah. They need a bloody nose.
Toliy [01:14:28]:
Yeah.
Eldar [01:14:29]:
And they will get it. And it's hard for the parents. The problem is sometimes the parents right through worrying will prevent the bloody nose that is very necessary for the kid to get. Yes.
Toliy [01:14:42]:
Yeah.
Eldar [01:14:43]:
So what they'll do is they'll patch it up a little bit for them, make sure that they get through it. They won't get a bloody nose, but they won't learn the lesson.
Toliy [01:14:51]:
Yeah.
Eldar [01:14:52]:
Yeah. Because that's, that's, that's.
Toliy [01:14:53]:
It's hard for your kid to like, I. I guess to like to watch them learn that it is hard, right, Gary?
Eldar [01:15:00]:
It is hard for you to watch your kid fall on their face over and over and again and be okay with it. To say that it's.
Gary [01:15:08]:
Believe it or not, I. I truly believe that if you don't fall and if you get. Don't get bruised and so on, you. You just never gonna learn. You have to learn your experiences on your own. You can't. You know what my dad always told me when I was a kid? He always told me, why make mistake.
Eldar [01:15:31]:
When you can learn from the others?
Gary [01:15:32]:
If you can learn from others.
Eldar [01:15:33]:
Right. My mom says this didn't know each other.
Gary [01:15:37]:
It always made sense to me.
Eldar [01:15:39]:
Yeah.
Gary [01:15:40]:
But later on I realized, you know, that looking at Mike, I realized that until he gets bruised, he won't learn.
Eldar [01:15:51]:
Yeah.
Gary [01:15:51]:
And that's exactly what happened.
Eldar [01:15:53]:
Yeah.
Gary [01:15:54]:
So somehow I survived with my dad's ideology.
Eldar [01:15:58]:
Yeah.
Gary [01:15:59]:
But it didn't help Mike.
Eldar [01:16:00]:
It didn't help.
Gary [01:16:01]:
Yeah, it didn't help him. Everyone has his own ways.
Eldar [01:16:04]:
Yeah.
Gary [01:16:04]:
Of his own way.
Eldar [01:16:06]:
And would you say that you learned through that way? Through your dad's? Dad's.
Gary [01:16:10]:
I think, I think I was very cautious. My dad was very cautious and I try to be very cautious and I. I don't know, somehow I managed. It doesn't mean I haven't done stupid stuff in my life. Yeah, I probably have.
Eldar [01:16:26]:
Yeah.
Gary [01:16:27]:
But I don't know. I guess I'm lucky. I don't know. But I. I truly believe that the problem is like, some people are like in the middle. Some people are like, they wanna experience, have more experiences like you would expect from a person who is not stupid.
Eldar [01:16:53]:
Right.
Gary [01:16:57]:
If he tripped. Right. Next time he's more careful. Right?
Eldar [01:17:00]:
Sure. Yeah.
Gary [01:17:02]:
But you know, it's not the case. That's not.
Eldar [01:17:05]:
It's just sometimes it's not that simple. I think, I think those lessons are a lot more.
Gary [01:17:08]:
That I never find an answer, I guess.
Toliy [01:17:11]:
But, but, but it's also sometimes like, I feel like when we think that someone is competent at one thing, it doesn't mean that they're stupid in something else.
Eldar [01:17:22]:
Right.
Toliy [01:17:22]:
Because like, like there, there's a very frequent like, I guess, phrase that said, like, you're too smart to do this.
Eldar [01:17:27]:
Right.
Toliy [01:17:28]:
Like you're too smart to be like.
Eldar [01:17:29]:
Oh, yes.
Toliy [01:17:30]:
With the stuff. Right. So it's like someone is saying that you are too intelligent to be like suffering with this dumb thing.
Eldar [01:17:37]:
Yeah. You actually heard a lot that from Gary towards Mike. He said, Mike Come on. You're such a good kid. You have such a good head on your shoulders. Why are you doing this over and over again? You're right.
Gary [01:17:47]:
How many times I said that?
Eldar [01:17:48]:
You said that a lot.
Toliy [01:17:49]:
Yeah.
Gary [01:17:49]:
And I never told him that he's stupid. He's never gonna. Right? Yeah, Yeah, I know. I never did that to him. Never.
Toliy [01:17:57]:
Yeah, but, but is the like, is. Is it possible that might be reality? What?
Eldar [01:18:01]:
That might be a mistake? Yeah.
Toliy [01:18:03]:
Yeah. Like, is the reality that that person actually is stupid enough that they can just.
Eldar [01:18:08]:
Well, that's what I'm saying. That. I think that's why worrying is actually a cover up for calling your kid stupid to their face.
Toliy [01:18:17]:
Yeah.
Eldar [01:18:18]:
You can't do it.
Mike [01:18:19]:
You could say.
Eldar [01:18:19]:
You could say, hey, hey, hey, buddy, I love you, but you're stupid.
Mike [01:18:24]:
Yeah.
Eldar [01:18:25]:
And the reason why I worry is because you're stupid. But then you're going to have a more honest conversation because the kid is going to say, what? Dad, Are you serious?
Mike [01:18:33]:
Yeah.
Eldar [01:18:33]:
What the. You mean I'm stupid? Yep. You know, and then you have to have an honest conversation and your dad's gonna say this, this, this. Show me that you're stupid. Prove me wrong. And then that stays in your head. Right. You're gonna go now into life and say.
Eldar [01:18:47]:
And then that stays with you.
Gary [01:18:48]:
You know, personally, I don't even know why somebody have to tell you that you did that. This, this, this. I mean, if you did something stupid and you don't realize it, then maybe you are stupid. I don't know. I. I truly don't know. Like there is this distinction between.
Eldar [01:19:04]:
Yeah, but you can't see Gary, at least with your efforts. I. I've seen it, witnessed it with Mike. With your efforts. At least I saw that you said, mike, this is stupid, but I love you and you're a very smart kid. So those two, like, it was a very confusing. I think.
Gary [01:19:19]:
Well, well, first of all situation. If somebody thinks that his son is stupid.
Eldar [01:19:23]:
Yeah.
Gary [01:19:24]:
If somebody is convinced that his son is to. Not necessarily son. A friend.
Eldar [01:19:27]:
Yeah.
Gary [01:19:28]:
Doesn't matter. A dog. Doesn't matter. You don't ex. That person doesn't expect from that person to do something smart. Right. I know. I never thought that Mike was too.
Gary [01:19:38]:
I never, I never said.
Eldar [01:19:39]:
No. Yeah.
Gary [01:19:40]:
I never agreed that I expected more. Maybe I expected too much.
Eldar [01:19:43]:
Yeah.
Gary [01:19:44]:
I don't know.
Eldar [01:19:45]:
Yeah.
Mike [01:19:46]:
No, it's true.
Eldar [01:19:47]:
Yeah.
Gary [01:19:47]:
So it's. But it's different. It's a whole different topic.
Eldar [01:19:52]:
Yeah. Yeah.
Mike [01:19:53]:
I think there's nothing wrong with calling.
Eldar [01:19:55]:
Things for what they are.
Mike [01:19:56]:
Your friend or your family member. Stupid.
Eldar [01:19:58]:
No, but it's, but it's also the right thing. No, but I think. No, you also have to be careful with the way you say it because you can, you know, you can't say in general you're stupid.
Mike [01:20:06]:
Right.
Eldar [01:20:08]:
You're very good at math, but you're very good. You're very bad at English, for example. Right.
Mike [01:20:13]:
Yeah, yeah.
Eldar [01:20:14]:
So you have to pick a topic and say, okay, cool. When it comes to, let's say, relationships and the way you handle girls. Right. Your incompetence area. Right. You're stupid. For now. For now.
Toliy [01:20:24]:
But, but you also have to have some level of rapport and relationship to be able to talk that bluntly between two people.
Eldar [01:20:32]:
Well, hopefully, hopefully that you displayed enough actual love care for that individual in order to then say on the other end that, like, hey, like, you're doing stupid stuff.
Toliy [01:20:41]:
Yeah, but how many like, parent and kid relationships are like that? Or like they actually got to know each other and like, they have that relationship where it could be like, like, hey, mom, when it comes to this, you're an idiot.
Eldar [01:20:53]:
Yeah.
Toliy [01:20:53]:
You're very good at Microsoft Excel. Yeah, right. And accounting. But in this stuff, you're stupid. Yeah, right.
Eldar [01:21:00]:
Don't, don't, don't make believe, like, you are. We are smart on this.
Toliy [01:21:03]:
Yeah, yeah, right. Like, that's a very blunt, like, very, very particular type of conversation.
Eldar [01:21:09]:
I think those types of conversations gets you to the end goal faster, you know?
Toliy [01:21:14]:
Yes, but, but two people have to be like, it gets you to the point. If I think both individuals are open and trying to get to the point.
Eldar [01:21:22]:
And that's what you need to develop that.
Toliy [01:21:23]:
Yeah.
Eldar [01:21:24]:
As parents, as kids, I think that you need to develop that kind of rapport with your, what you're asking for.
Mike [01:21:29]:
Is to be able to have a logical conversation with the kid.
Eldar [01:21:31]:
Correct.
Toliy [01:21:31]:
Yeah.
Mike [01:21:31]:
And I leave your emotions and the kids emotions out the door.
Toliy [01:21:34]:
Yes, but, but the constant thing about parents, like, like, for example, with, like, especially with like very like, young kids.
Eldar [01:21:42]:
Right.
Toliy [01:21:42]:
And I think that, that it transfers over when they're older. Like, I think the way the society treats young kids, they, they firmly believe that they're stupid.
Eldar [01:21:51]:
Right.
Toliy [01:21:52]:
That's why they should watch cartoons all day and like, they should just do mindless things all day because they're not capable of understanding things in a logical way. And then they, and then what, what, what, what do they do? They do the emotion, like, oh, come here. You know, like, yeah, you know this. Like, they Talk to them like they're idiots.
Eldar [01:22:09]:
Yeah.
Toliy [01:22:10]:
Right. So it's like that's. You're raised that way from the beginning that like your ways in this like, dumb way that like, you're not capable of like. Oh, yeah. Like you're not brought into the world of like the world of logic is not introduced to you until, like, until you're probably already an idiot. Yeah.
Eldar [01:22:27]:
Well, you already went through your first career, your second career.
Toliy [01:22:30]:
Yeah. When you realize, you know, in your. Yeah. 20s, 30s, 40s, he's gonna open up parenting school.
Eldar [01:22:37]:
You came across as some guy that used to read philosophy in the lunchroom and he read a couple of quotes to you. Yeah. Wait a second. Why am I here? And you all of a sudden wake up.
Toliy [01:22:45]:
Yeah.
Eldar [01:22:45]:
Completely new life.
Toliy [01:22:46]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like the world, like, like the logical stuff is not brought into a young kid's life.
Eldar [01:22:53]:
Yeah, yeah.
Toliy [01:22:54]:
Why? Because they feel like again, like, like they are not smart enough for this. And like. And same thing with, with like the different laws. Right.
Eldar [01:23:03]:
Also you would then also have to say that the parents don't believe in that. Right, Right. Clearly.
Toliy [01:23:08]:
Like, like why do these different laws exist, you know, about drinking, smoking, driving. Right. Like they're, they're based on age. Right, Right. So like they feel that like an age is like there are certain people who are 50 that shouldn't be driving or 40.
Eldar [01:23:21]:
Yeah, you're right.
Toliy [01:23:22]:
But then there's people that are probably 13 that could be drive right now.
Gary [01:23:25]:
No problems that exist. They don't make any sense. Because if you go, if you are 18 and you go to the store, you can buy a pack of cigarettes.
Toliy [01:23:33]:
Right, but you could go fight in.
Gary [01:23:35]:
The, in the army, but. Yeah. So does it make any sense?
Toliy [01:23:39]:
You can go.
Eldar [01:23:39]:
Yeah.
Toliy [01:23:39]:
Shoot guns at people who, who is.
Gary [01:23:41]:
Defending a country against the enemy. 19 year olds, 20 years olds, 20 year olds.
Eldar [01:23:47]:
Right. Yeah.
Gary [01:23:47]:
But the 19 year olds, 20 year olds can't go and buy a pack of beer, but they can drive a car. When they're 16, they can drive a car, but they can't go and buy a pack of cigarettes. Doesn't make any sense. Does this law make any sense? No.
Eldar [01:24:04]:
Well, you know, that just means that we're people and we're trying to get it right.
Toliy [01:24:08]:
But it's not that true.
Gary [01:24:09]:
If you were 16. If you were 16 or 17 and your parents reserved you a Lima so you can go and have fun with your parents and they have chaperone on the limo. I mean, I hear it all the time. And when I hear It. I'm so upset. No, thank you. I'm getting so upset. 16 parents reserve a Lima for their 16 year olds for birthday and they have two people chaperoning there on the bus.
Eldar [01:24:43]:
Yeah.
Gary [01:24:44]:
How can you expect this, these kids to be responsible when they're 18 or 19 or driving a car? Like seriously, I can't put those things together. To me it doesn't make any sense. Who are these parents?
Eldar [01:25:02]:
Wait, so you're trying, you're saying that.
Mike [01:25:03]:
They shouldn't be chaperoning?
Gary [01:25:04]:
No, of course not.
Eldar [01:25:05]:
Right.
Mike [01:25:06]:
You got to let the kids run amok. That way they can learn their lessons. They're not running around 25 years old, don't know how to like, you know, light a match or just don't let.
Gary [01:25:14]:
Them have a party, you know, if you don't trust.
Eldar [01:25:16]:
If you don't trust.
Toliy [01:25:17]:
Yeah, that, that's also why I feel like the kids that try, I mean the parents are trying to keep their kids in this. Like, like May made a bubble. They usually get like a room.
Mike [01:25:26]:
They go on a roller coaster. Even worse down the line, right.
Gary [01:25:29]:
They want to have, they wanna, they want to pretend that they're a good parents because. Because their parents of John's parents, they got him a lemur for his birthday. So we need to get a Lima for our Peter birthday. Right. That's why they're doing it. It's good for us.
Eldar [01:25:49]:
So who prefers this type of language? Totally. Get back to the topic.
Toliy [01:25:53]:
Worrying.
Eldar [01:25:53]:
Yeah, worrying language. Yeah, the love language of worry. Who prefers it?
Toliy [01:25:57]:
People who are in shitty scenarios that don't know solutions for worry them.
Eldar [01:26:03]:
Yep. People that are the shittiest. Wait, what?
Mike [01:26:06]:
People who are in shitty scenarios and don't know the solutions for them.
Toliy [01:26:09]:
Yeah, they like. Yeah, they like when people worry for them. I mean I. I mean I've definitely experienced that.
Eldar [01:26:17]:
Wow. Wow.
Toliy [01:26:18]:
Probably not.
Mike [01:26:19]:
What, you've done this to somebody?
Toliy [01:26:20]:
No, no, I've been on the receiving end.
Mike [01:26:23]:
You've been on both sides or not?
Toliy [01:26:25]:
Yeah, I've probably been on both sides.
Eldar [01:26:26]:
Yeah.
Toliy [01:26:27]:
Yeah. Not consciously either. No, but. No, but like looking back at it now, it's like. Yeah, yeah. Like if you're already in like a shitty scenario and you don't know what to do, the least you could get a summoner worry for you.
Eldar [01:26:40]:
Wow, that's bad. It's not bad. I mean, that's great, you know.
Toliy [01:26:48]:
Yeah, you get some, some.
Eldar [01:26:50]:
You're getting some crumbs.
Toliy [01:26:51]:
Yeah, yeah. Because it's like those people in those scenarios, like they feel a bit Helpless, like they don't know what to do really. Like the kingdom, stuff like that.
Eldar [01:27:02]:
So would you say then this whole time we're thinking that these people a lineage of like the kings and queens from so many different lifetimes. It sounds like the lineage just began first life.
Mike [01:27:13]:
Oh, yeah. No, they came from the mountains. They're not kings and queens.
Toliy [01:27:17]:
Yeah. Mike's family is like kings and queens.
Eldar [01:27:20]:
They're also battling worry.
Toliy [01:27:22]:
Mike's lineage 100 beat our people to spend the reunions in class. Especially like me and the hundred percent.
Eldar [01:27:29]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Toliy [01:27:30]:
They. They. They subjected us to splay.
Eldar [01:27:33]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Wow. So that's who prefers it, huh? That's crazy.
Toliy [01:27:41]:
Well, most people think about it.
Eldar [01:27:43]:
Right.
Toliy [01:27:43]:
Like, you don't know what to do in a bad situation.
Eldar [01:27:46]:
Yeah.
Toliy [01:27:46]:
Does it not feel good like some of them.
Eldar [01:27:49]:
No, you're right. Yeah. If you're in a hopeless situation kind of thing. Yeah. Yeah. You're almost looking for a pity part.
Gary [01:27:55]:
Interesting fact. I just. I just thought.
Eldar [01:27:59]:
Usually I get those thoughts in the bathroom too.
Toliy [01:28:01]:
Me too.
Gary [01:28:02]:
You know, how do. How do you translate worry?
Mike [01:28:06]:
You're gonna give out the.
Gary [01:28:07]:
Yeah. Do you know the translation? Yeah. Now breaks into words. Pacoi. People who can't find himself peace.
Eldar [01:28:20]:
Yeah, that's a good point. That is a good point.
Mike [01:28:23]:
So if you can't find yourself enough peace, what are you going to do? You're going to put that on to other people?
Eldar [01:28:27]:
Onto other people as well? Yeah, that's it.
Mike [01:28:28]:
So you're going to stop bothering me or in 20 years.
Toliy [01:28:31]:
No, man, think about it. You need to worry about it for.
Eldar [01:28:33]:
The rest of your life. He's. He's incompetent.
Toliy [01:28:35]:
Yeah. And think about it. If you're talking about. Yeah. If people have nothing to do and they're trying to find peace, you can give them peace by reassuring them that everything is okay.
Eldar [01:28:45]:
Yeah, but you don't want to play that game. No, no.
Toliy [01:28:47]:
I'm just saying that, like.
Eldar [01:28:49]:
See, I don't think the reassurance of calling every hour is the real reassurance.
Toliy [01:28:54]:
Right.
Eldar [01:28:54]:
In. In solving that worry.
Toliy [01:28:56]:
Yeah.
Eldar [01:28:56]:
I think that having genuine conversations, spending real time going on vacations with your dad, for example. Right. Are actual times where you can get to know one another as to say, okay, who is this person? Who am I dealing with? Right. To find out whether or not this person's actually competent. That's the only way. There's no, you know, like your sister calling in your mom, and they just checking in that reassurance.
Gary [01:29:20]:
You know what Parents want. They want assurance. It doesn't mean that Mike has to take me on that trip and prove that he is a serious person, right?
Eldar [01:29:32]:
Sure. Sure.
Gary [01:29:33]:
There are many other ways. Like we had a fight with Emily last week, right. And she behaved just like she always do, Right. She behaves like nothing happened. That's not right. You are 32 years old. 33. And you know I'm mad.
Gary [01:29:54]:
So come to me and have an adult conversation. And she hasn't done it. She just continues. She avoids it. So should I consider her a serious person, A responsible person?
Mike [01:30:08]:
Never in that field.
Eldar [01:30:10]:
Yeah.
Mike [01:30:11]:
I have to say no. But other fields, she's competent.
Gary [01:30:13]:
No. Emily is a completely different person. She transformed into a completely different person in a good way. In the past two, three years. She's start working back, working with us. How she did it, I don't know, but she's completely different person. And I'm extremely proud of her. But every now and then she manages to.
Gary [01:30:43]:
To make me like completely crazy. Like completely mad. She does something stupid. Yeah, but I understand. Everyone makes mistake, but fix it, right? Fix it. Approach me. Have a conversation with me.
Eldar [01:30:56]:
Yeah.
Mike [01:31:01]:
But you're asking a person who's not confident, not logical, to do a logical thing, right?
Eldar [01:31:09]:
Yeah. Are you asking too much?
Mike [01:31:10]:
Too much or no?
Gary [01:31:13]:
I don't think so. I never ask too much. Give me. Give me an example.
Mike [01:31:18]:
Give me an exception.
Gary [01:31:19]:
Give me an example when I was asking too much. Give me at least one example.
Mike [01:31:23]:
I can give you one example.
Gary [01:31:24]:
Yeah, give me an example. Yeah.
Mike [01:31:29]:
When. When you're asking for too much or when you didn't let things kind of take its natural course.
Gary [01:31:34]:
Is that Wisana?
Mike [01:31:36]:
Yeah. What you were trying to do there. What you did was. I think it. You might think you were shortening the. The lesson for me, you know, but I think it ended up extending for much longer than it might. It could have been much shorter if you would allow me to go learn the lesson. Instead of.
Mike [01:31:52]:
What you did was you turned me against you. Instead of turning me against Anna, you turned me against you. But you were trying to do what? You were trying to go and help me, right? And here, like, same thing. What you doing, Emily? You're trying to go and you're trying.
Eldar [01:32:05]:
To get a bloody voice.
Gary [01:32:06]:
It might be. It might be an exception. It might be an exception. But regardless.
Mike [01:32:10]:
But I'm saying this might be the same situation with Emily's, where you're trying to go and help her and save her, where she's not ready to be saved even Though what she's saying is she wants to be saved.
Eldar [01:32:19]:
Saved.
Mike [01:32:20]:
She is not like a, like the, you know, she's not consistent in her character where she's doing the.
Gary [01:32:27]:
No, I understand what I, what I constantly, what I'm saying is there are better ways to behave. Like she could have done it.
Eldar [01:32:37]:
I agree.
Gary [01:32:38]:
She could have done it differently.
Mike [01:32:39]:
You can't ask a sick person to do things. A non sick.
Gary [01:32:43]:
I don't see her as a sick person.
Mike [01:32:44]:
Did you think that I was. Well then that's your fault.
Gary [01:32:47]:
I don't see.
Mike [01:32:47]:
Did you think that I was sick when I was behaving the way I was with Anya? What is it, the Anya situation? Did you think that was a sick person at that time?
Gary [01:32:55]:
You or me?
Mike [01:32:56]:
Yeah, me. Me.
Gary [01:32:57]:
Of course you were sick. You were sick with love.
Mike [01:32:59]:
Yeah.
Gary [01:32:59]:
Or whatever. Whatever it was. Yeah, yeah, you were sick. Of course.
Mike [01:33:03]:
So do you think that I did.
Gary [01:33:04]:
Stupid thing when I was in love when I was a kid?
Mike [01:33:06]:
Yeah.
Gary [01:33:07]:
But the difference is I was 10 or 12, right? You were much, much older.
Mike [01:33:16]:
Yeah.
Eldar [01:33:17]:
Wow. Yeah, that's gonna be intro.
Toliy [01:33:24]:
That might be the problem here. Is that like the, the age thing, like concrete.
Eldar [01:33:29]:
Yeah, I was 10 years old.
Toliy [01:33:34]:
Yeah, yeah. No, I, I, I think that might be the problem for where like just because someone is older or just because someone is, is younger. Right. It doesn't mean that like they're, they're smart. Yeah, like, like that they're competent in something. But like for example, how we're talking about these different age things, that's how things are done in America and in the world. If you're 18, you are considered competent enough to make a decision to go to the army or not. When you are 21, you are considered competent to buy cigarettes or drink.
Toliy [01:34:06]:
Where maybe for some people, they're only competent to make a decision on drinking when they're 50 or 40. And then some people can make a decision of drinking when they're 15 or 16. So I don't think that like the age has shows any like, and like, is any indication of competence because there's people who do, like, again, like live.
Eldar [01:34:29]:
All your life focusing on one particular thing. Like, for example, bodybuilding.
Toliy [01:34:33]:
Yeah.
Eldar [01:34:33]:
You know what I mean? And you got yourself to a nice place where you have a nice, really, really nice body. You know what I mean? This is what you do, you know? And like, this is what you're competent. Doesn't mean that when you go somewhere in a difficult situation that you're not going to display anger.
Toliy [01:34:46]:
Yeah. You can Be a philosopher.
Eldar [01:34:48]:
Yeah. Just because, you know.
Mike [01:34:50]:
Just because. Yeah, yeah.
Toliy [01:34:51]:
Age is not an indication of competence.
Mike [01:34:53]:
No, not all. Not only age, but also competence. And another thing is not an indicator and comes in a different thing. I think he's saying that Emma's great. She's been so confident in the past two, three years.
Eldar [01:35:03]:
But when it comes to heart, when she's feeling relationship, she's Emotions.
Mike [01:35:08]:
Yeah. You cannot. And I think that it's. That's the. That's the important thing is to differentiate and to understand. Like, hey, this is what she's good at, this is what she's not. And when she's good at great. That stuff, she's not.
Mike [01:35:17]:
Okay. Understand.
Eldar [01:35:18]:
So then why does he have that opinion? We have to. We have to discuss that. Why does he.
Mike [01:35:23]:
It's not an opinion.
Eldar [01:35:24]:
Why does he hold her to a higher standard when it comes to this? Does he have a horse in a race? Right. Does he hold some kind of an attachment? Right.
Gary [01:35:32]:
She hasn't changed. She hasn't grown just professionally. She's grown as a mother, as a woman, as a. Yeah, those. Those two. Professionally, as a mother and as a woman.
Eldar [01:35:47]:
What about a partner?
Gary [01:35:50]:
Professionally, a partner. In terms of relationship.
Eldar [01:35:58]:
You see, it's a little bit trickier.
Gary [01:36:00]:
Sure.
Eldar [01:36:01]:
She definitely became, you know, more mature because she has a responsibility.
Gary [01:36:05]:
She probably is. I mean, but it has to be mutual.
Mike [01:36:09]:
But you see, the thing is, you might have data to prove that Emma has gotten better as a mom because you see her as a mom.
Eldar [01:36:15]:
Yes.
Mike [01:36:15]:
She might have become better in business because you see her in business. But have you seen her in relationship? You.
Gary [01:36:20]:
I. Yes.
Mike [01:36:22]:
You have?
Gary [01:36:23]:
Yes.
Mike [01:36:23]:
What have you seen?
Gary [01:36:24]:
Well, because she interacts with him in front of me. She interacts with him.
Eldar [01:36:30]:
Have you.
Mike [01:36:30]:
And have you seen the interaction become better? The. Emma's become more confident.
Gary [01:36:33]:
It hasn't gotten better.
Mike [01:36:34]:
It has not changed at all.
Eldar [01:36:35]:
Right.
Gary [01:36:36]:
With agree.
Mike [01:36:37]:
So you're asking for a person who's.
Gary [01:36:38]:
Not confident it's gotten worse. Probably.
Mike [01:36:40]:
Probably, yes. Because I think she's more fed up.
Eldar [01:36:42]:
Which just proves a point. She might be. She might be growing in other areas of her life. Right. But in that particular compartment, it only.
Gary [01:36:50]:
Proves that this relationship are not working.
Eldar [01:36:54]:
Oh, I agree with you.
Gary [01:36:55]:
They have to.
Mike [01:36:55]:
We don't disagree.
Eldar [01:36:56]:
Oh, no, we don't disagree with that. She has to come to those terms. She has to get that bloody nose over and over and over again.
Gary [01:37:03]:
She did.
Eldar [01:37:04]:
And she did. Exactly.
Mike [01:37:05]:
But you think. You think she has enough.
Eldar [01:37:07]:
Did she get enough of them? Is the Question.
Gary [01:37:10]:
Oh, guys, I don't know. I don't know.
Eldar [01:37:11]:
You know, I know you. I know you can say, yeah, it's been 10 years and stuff like that, but a lot of people, I saw.
Gary [01:37:16]:
My brother suffering, suffering with his first.
Eldar [01:37:18]:
Wife for how long?
Gary [01:37:19]:
20 years.
Eldar [01:37:20]:
So there you go.
Mike [01:37:20]:
So she got at least 10 more.
Gary [01:37:22]:
I just don't want to.
Eldar [01:37:24]:
Yeah, but there you go. Now we're talking about attachment.
Toliy [01:37:26]:
That's the problem.
Eldar [01:37:27]:
Yeah. Now we're talking about his attachment towards not wanting. Right. He wants Emma to be better. He wants to esteem her higher than other examples that he has. Right. He has a horse in a race. Yeah.
Mike [01:37:37]:
That's why he unfortunately, like, yeah, like you have a selfish desire for her to do better and. But you're not respecting the process that she needs to go through to her herself to believe in herself that she deserves better. That's what needs to happen. Until she believes that she deserves better than this person, she will not change or keep going back to him.
Eldar [01:37:54]:
Once again, imagine, imagine a scenario, right? Imagine a scenario where, right. Emma's doing. Continues to do better in all the other fields that you guys are talking about and you guys are supporting her in those fields, right. But then she goes home and she has fights. Ongoing fights, ongoing problems there.
Mike [01:38:10]:
Yeah.
Eldar [01:38:10]:
She's going to keep, she's going to figure out once, like, wait a second, when I'm home, when I'm with you guys, I'm enjoying my life, I'm doing better, I'm progressing, I'm doing this profession, all this other stuff, what the fuck is happening, right? As soon as I get home, I get extremely stressed out, I get into fights, I have all these problems, right. Sooner or later she's gonna be like, I don't need this anymore. I had enough of this. I'd like to continue to pursue my professional career. Right. My career, not career, but my relationship as a daughter, my relationship as a sister. Right. Rather than dealing with this nonsense and then sooner or later she's gonna wake up and you know, finally break the tie.
Mike [01:38:43]:
Yeah. That's once and for all.
Eldar [01:38:46]:
But one side has to be then encouraged, Right. And now hopefully you guys are not worrying for her. Right? Through the love language of worry, more so caring through real actions, real effective actions, hopefully that promote her growth in other areas that's going to help her see clearly. And that bad area.
Toliy [01:39:06]:
Yeah. Because she develop enough self respect for herself.
Eldar [01:39:09]:
Yes.
Toliy [01:39:10]:
Where that she, she's gonna take action. Yeah. Because like it's, it's bound to happen. Like if your Life is shitty in one place.
Gary [01:39:16]:
I think you, that's. You hit the nail on the head because I think it's about self respect. She hasn't realized it yet, but there's different spheres, right?
Mike [01:39:27]:
Like, you may, with your friends, you may have self respect. With your business party, you may have some respect. With a boyfriend, you may not. Yeah, those things develop. Those things developed in all spheres. Not like, oh, you have self respect now.
Eldar [01:39:40]:
Yeah.
Mike [01:39:40]:
And especially if it's like if you had self respect from the day you were born, and it's probably, I think it's easier to kind of, you know, introduce it to everybody. But if you never had self respect and now you're getting some respect as a businesswoman, as a mother, as a friend, as a daughter, you have to. Now it's. You actually have to do things to spread it to other parts of your life so it doesn't just naturally happen.
Gary [01:40:04]:
There isn't self respect. There's no, like, one universe.
Mike [01:40:10]:
If you, like, everybody here has different.
Eldar [01:40:13]:
Well, look at this. I'll give you an example of Mike, right? He carries himself really well as a friend. He carries himself really well as a business owner or whatever it is that you guys do. But as soon as he gets into a relationship, his head is completely gone, right? He becomes very insecure. He becomes a mouse. He can't talk anymore. He, even though, you know what I'm saying, like, he can speak, whatever, he's very funny, he's very outgoing. But as soon as he gets in a relationship, he becomes a little bitch.
Eldar [01:40:39]:
What is that? That just shows that there's, you know, he hasn't progressed or has enough confidence or enough competence in that particular area. And that's what he's working on. So he doesn't lose his head completely when he's with somebody who he desires or whatever. You know what I mean? I think it's the same phenomenon. I think a lot of people struggle from this, this particular problem where as soon as you get into a relationship, as soon as you get something that you really, really like, you're willing to bend, you're willing to lose self respect, you're willing to, you know. Yeah.
Mike [01:41:09]:
Like, yeah.
Toliy [01:41:11]:
And for example, like, like, like, I mean, like, like I would say in most people's case. But if we're talking about Emma's case, like, she, like, my understanding is that like, she, she's not coming from, like, she had self respect everywhere, right. For example, she's coming from a deficit where, like, she did not have self respect in business, right? She did not have self respect and all these other things. So she's developed it and like you said, that you're proud of her and that she's improved.
Mike [01:41:35]:
Clear.
Toliy [01:41:36]:
Clearly. So this is just another thing that she needs to.
Mike [01:41:39]:
Yeah.
Toliy [01:41:40]:
And develop on her own. But I think the problem is that like when, when, when someone is trying to, like, I guess, like, like, like, even if they have good wishes, like intervene to, to, to give them that self respect, I think that they will always be looked at as like.
Eldar [01:41:57]:
I had a thought, I had a thought as soon as he was talking about that. So if he agrees with what you said, his course of action actually should be. He should be coming to her. Right. And saying to her, hey, you know what? Everything that you've done, what you just said, respect here, self respect there, you've grown a lot and I appreciate it and this is what I wish for you. You know what I mean? And I'll be here when you're ready.
Toliy [01:42:20]:
That's it.
Eldar [01:42:21]:
That, that speeds up the process for her to say, you know what, what's happening here. I really get a lot of love and support here from my dad. He sees how good I am, he's promoting that, what I'm doing. And then on the other side I'm getting. Sooner or later she's going to wake up and stand next to him because of.
Toliy [01:42:40]:
Yeah, yeah. Because if not, I think that there's probably a bigger, A bigger focus, I would say, between the war between, let's say like Emma and Gary, then the focus is wrong. Yeah. The focus is fighting you versus actually realizing what's going on over there.
Eldar [01:42:53]:
Correct, partner? Correct. I agree with that.
Mike [01:42:56]:
Yeah.
Eldar [01:42:56]:
I actually agree with that. By him accepting her and supporting her. One.
Toliy [01:43:01]:
One less thing to worry about.
Eldar [01:43:02]:
Correct.
Mike [01:43:02]:
He doesn't enemy anymore.
Eldar [01:43:04]:
Correct. He's correct. He's 100. Right. The focus now shifts towards one particular area where it's bad. And she already confirmed to you and to him that she's done with him. She doesn't want to be with him. You only will support that by speeding up that process.
Mike [01:43:18]:
But if you push her.
Eldar [01:43:19]:
Yes. If she, you push her, make more obstacles for her. Yeah.
Mike [01:43:22]:
She'll go to him because it's less resistance.
Eldar [01:43:24]:
She's gonna fight you instead of him. Correct.
Mike [01:43:25]:
Yeah.
Eldar [01:43:26]:
Yeah. And because right now he's, in a.
Mike [01:43:28]:
Way, he's pushing her into his arms.
Eldar [01:43:30]:
Yeah.
Mike [01:43:31]:
You know, because he's the, he's actually.
Toliy [01:43:33]:
The one sitting there accepting.
Eldar [01:43:34]:
Correct.
Toliy [01:43:34]:
Being just ready to help.
Eldar [01:43:36]:
Yeah.
Mike [01:43:36]:
Yeah.
Toliy [01:43:36]:
Right.
Gary [01:43:37]:
There's a difference. Since we're on this topic. There's a different issue going on. She proved to Mike, she proved to me. We're in great communication with Emily. Great communication.
Eldar [01:43:46]:
Okay?
Mike [01:43:48]:
She proved this to us.
Gary [01:43:49]:
She, well, said that. She proved to you that she's over with this guy, right?
Mike [01:43:53]:
She told me. She didn't.
Gary [01:43:55]:
She just said it.
Eldar [01:43:56]:
Yeah, she definitely proved otherwise.
Gary [01:43:58]:
At the same time, he is trying really, really hard to manipulate her and trick her back into the relationship.
Eldar [01:44:09]:
Are you convinced that he can trick her?
Gary [01:44:11]:
He's trying and he's trying very hard. You know why? Because for him, this is the last chance. He's never gonna find another Hillary or another stupid young girl. That's it. It's over for him. It's either Emily's back or he's done. Because this guy can't survive on his own at all. He can't survive because he never did, never tried.
Gary [01:44:33]:
Right. Because he was with parents and then he was Hillary and then Emily took over and that's it. He's never gonna find another person who will be willing to waste her time on this guy. So he's trying very hard to come to manipulate her. And that's what I'm afraid of, that she doesn't understand it.
Eldar [01:44:52]:
So that is what you're worrying about?
Gary [01:44:54]:
That's what I'm worried about. Back to our.
Eldar [01:44:57]:
Yeah, it sounds like you're using primitive ways. And, and now then if you yourself agree that, you know, the way you're worrying right now, showing love to her, it's primitive.
Gary [01:45:06]:
That is, that is a perfect example.
Toliy [01:45:08]:
Yeah, but, but, but, but what, what's happening here is that like Gus, for example, Right. Or Right. For example, here is like a person.
Eldar [01:45:18]:
Remove that.
Toliy [01:45:19]:
Right? Yeah. This person is like a sales guy, right? And he's trying to, he's trying to. Yeah. Sell something to, to Emma, right?
Eldar [01:45:29]:
Yeah.
Toliy [01:45:29]:
Right?
Mike [01:45:32]:
Yeah.
Toliy [01:45:32]:
And when you don't have self respect, he's gonna be showing that. This, this little plastic piece right here. Gary, this is a $20,000 nice piece, right?
Eldar [01:45:42]:
Yeah.
Toliy [01:45:42]:
And when she has no self respect, she's like, oh, wow, this is nice.
Eldar [01:45:45]:
I'll tell you. Right?
Toliy [01:45:46]:
Yeah, I like it. Right? But then when she gets. When, when, when eventually over time, he's gonna keep coming and keep coming, keep trying to sell this little plastic piece for $20,000 to her Rolex, to her. And eventually he's gonna be like, what are you talking about?
Mike [01:46:03]:
Right?
Eldar [01:46:03]:
Like this garbage.
Toliy [01:46:04]:
This is a garbage. 25 cent pieces of plastic.
Gary [01:46:08]:
I don't need this.
Toliy [01:46:10]:
So until she goes through that process to, like, develop that, he's gonna be able to do what you're saying to sell her on this comeback, to sell on this promises. And eventually that time's gonna tick. And as she continues to grow, he's gonna be like, wait, like, I can't be buying this anymore.
Gary [01:46:30]:
I hear you, what you're saying, but there is one very, very important detail that you are not aware of also.
Mike [01:46:35]:
Anything.
Gary [01:46:36]:
Emily. Emily.
Toliy [01:46:38]:
Okay?
Gary [01:46:39]:
Deep inside, she probably doesn't even understand it, but deep inside she feels responsible for this guy.
Eldar [01:46:47]:
Okay?
Gary [01:46:48]:
Why? Because she was part of the reason that they are together.
Toliy [01:46:54]:
Okay?
Gary [01:46:57]:
So. So that guilt, that guilt subconsciously maybe pushing Emily towards. Towards that relationship.
Eldar [01:47:08]:
Have you ever asked that question?
Mike [01:47:09]:
Yeah.
Gary [01:47:10]:
Am I. Am I. Am I making any sense, Mike?
Eldar [01:47:13]:
No, no.
Mike [01:47:13]:
You would have to ask the question to her.
Gary [01:47:15]:
No, but also, like, even I don't think she knows.
Mike [01:47:18]:
Also, guilt is not gonna ever get you far enough.
Toliy [01:47:21]:
Yeah, yeah, that's what I'm saying. Also, it's the same thing with this, right? If you believe that you have a smart daughter, right? She's gonna be able to eventually reason to be, like, look, I'm not the guilty one here. I'm not doing anything wrong.
Mike [01:47:34]:
There's two adults here.
Gary [01:47:35]:
There is another problem, okay? Another complication, okay? It's not just about her anymore, okay? If it wasn't just her and him, that'd be much more simple, okay?
Mike [01:47:46]:
It's.
Gary [01:47:46]:
There is a child, okay, who everybody loves very much.
Toliy [01:47:50]:
Okay?
Gary [01:47:51]:
So. And he's suffering, the child is suffering because of. Because of that. That relationship. It's. It's a toxic. It's a toxic environment. There, like, in a huge sense of this word, it's toxic in all aspects.
Toliy [01:48:09]:
Okay?
Eldar [01:48:10]:
Okay.
Gary [01:48:11]:
They live in the basement. It's not healthy there. Every time I pick them up, they stink. So it's toxic. Toxic in all the senses. Toxic because they fight all the time. Toxic because they're in one room. They sleep in one room.
Gary [01:48:32]:
But the worst part is they have not Emily, not him. Nobody's suggesting any way out. It's either breaking up completely or continue living as they live. Right? Nobody is offering any solutions. Her solution is move out, get stuff a place, and then whatever happens, that's her solution. She still, I'm sure, is not convinced that they're not gonna be. They're gonna be separating. I think deep inside, she still.
Gary [01:49:10]:
She still sees for them to come back. I mean, he's trying to convince her that he's going to change. He can't change. There's no way this guy can change. It's impossible. Mike can change.
Eldar [01:49:28]:
Listen, if she's buying this right now.
Gary [01:49:29]:
Right, that's what I'm afraid of.
Eldar [01:49:31]:
Okay? If she's buying it right, then he's gonna, that's the best thing he could do. Yes. If she's buying this right, he's setting himself up for failure or track. Right? So because she can technically say, okay, cool, you're gonna change. What are the actual actions? Tell me, are we gonna get married in one year? Are we going to have our own place in another year? Are we going to have more kids? What is the plan? And if you're a competent person who has self respect, you would outline certain things for yourself. And if she, if she does do it right, like you guys are saying, if maybe you guys can help her do it, she's going to subject them to this and say, okay, cool, sounds like you want to change. Let me give you a chance. Let's see this.
Gary [01:50:07]:
Because, because of Emily's insecurity, she's never going to ask him.
Eldar [01:50:12]:
So then, so then, so then, what are we talking about here, Gary? Everything you talked about her self respect and growing. It sounds like she hasn't done any growing. Or you don't believe it, or you don't believe it.
Gary [01:50:21]:
It's still growing, but it's still in progress.
Eldar [01:50:25]:
So then you yourself then saying that, hey, this is not the right time for her to move on because of.
Mike [01:50:30]:
Her insecurity, and you not supporting her is not adding to her insecurity. It's actually making her insecurity worse.
Gary [01:50:36]:
Well, it's not like I'm not supporting her. I'm, I, I just, I'm just afraid that she's not, you know, she's not on the right track. I don't think she's doing it right.
Mike [01:50:47]:
I don't think she should. But the thing is, if the person is not on the right track, you have to still be there, support her.
Eldar [01:50:52]:
No, you don't have to.
Gary [01:50:53]:
Well, I am supporting her, right? She lives in my house.
Mike [01:50:57]:
I, I, I know, but you guys are not talking. You guys not talking. You, you guys.
Gary [01:51:02]:
No, we talk. Go back to talk.
Mike [01:51:05]:
I'm sorry, Dennis. I'm so, so, so, so, so, so sorry. Yeah, you guys weren't talking for a few days. You know, she doesn't feel like she can come to you and talk to you about what's happening. She needs support now. Not the opposite.
Gary [01:51:19]:
She's an adult. She can come to me any, anytime. Yeah, but she, but she won't.
Mike [01:51:24]:
She won't. But you, I mean, like, I also.
Eldar [01:51:27]:
Think that you shouldn't be growing frustrated from. You clearly see, two individuals are in a predicament that they have to be in this predicament. Gary has to be in this predicament, and Emma has to be in this predicament. That's true. Right. Where they have to learn the lessons that they need to learn in their relationship as well. You know what I mean? So you're trying to push him towards it one way. Yeah, but he might not be ready for that.
Mike [01:51:48]:
No, he might not be ready.
Eldar [01:51:49]:
He might not be ready to accept that.
Mike [01:51:50]:
But that's because. But we're here having a logic conversation and we're trying to understand.
Eldar [01:51:54]:
That's the thing. We are trying to have a lot of conversation, but a lot of times the application of it can be prematurely hit. Individuals that are not ready to take those steps. You might be ready for it. Right. Because you clearly understand the point.
Mike [01:52:05]:
Yeah.
Eldar [01:52:06]:
But he might have to sleep on it or think about it a little more, maybe come to another. Right. Podcast or two or whatever to discuss this topic. Because this topic is complicated.
Mike [01:52:15]:
It is for sure.
Eldar [01:52:16]:
You know what I mean? It is complicated. He's clearly worried. You know, he also admitted, which I was very surprised. The worry is, you know, if it is, you know, a way of love language that parents use, it is a very primitive way of showing their love to their kids. Right. So if he's open to learning a different, more effective way to care and stuff for the kids to grow and make leaps and bounds in their progress, then that's great.
Toliy [01:52:43]:
Yeah. But if not, I also think it's a difficult but very valuable lesson when, when it comes to, like, like, I, I, I, I think that, for example, like, Gary may feel by, like, stepping aside and just being there, that is not doing anything.
Eldar [01:53:02]:
Correct.
Toliy [01:53:03]:
Right.
Eldar [01:53:03]:
But it might be doing a lot.
Toliy [01:53:05]:
But it might be doing a lot. But it's hard to, to kind of accept that.
Eldar [01:53:08]:
Yeah.
Toliy [01:53:08]:
If you see your daughter suffering or the situation being shitty, then you kind of. Yeah. Like in those moments, he feels that by actually taking the actions that he's taking, he is actually helping.
Eldar [01:53:21]:
Correct. You have to reconvince and challenge Gary's methods that he's been using all his life in a way to guide his kids. Right. You're saying, do nothing. It works better. He's going to say, what are you talking about? Do nothing is going to make things worse. Yeah, you have to challenge that, and you have to then come to an agreement, whether or not that what you're saying.
Toliy [01:53:39]:
Yeah, No, I know that it's difficult to kind of just be there on the sideline and. And wait to be tagged in.
Eldar [01:53:45]:
Yeah.
Gary [01:53:46]:
You know, in the past we had situations. Right. When Mike was on the mission. Right. Mike was on the mission to do something stupid. Right.
Mike [01:53:55]:
That's a good intro.
Eldar [01:53:57]:
I'm on a mission to do something stupid. That's a T shirt.
Toliy [01:54:00]:
Wow. Yeah.
Gary [01:54:03]:
And. And. And there was no way I'm going to stop him. Right.
Toliy [01:54:07]:
I would take that as a ringtone every time I calls you. Mike's on a mission to do something stupid.
Gary [01:54:12]:
There was no way of stopping me.
Toliy [01:54:14]:
Yeah.
Gary [01:54:15]:
I just let it go. You want to do stupid? You want. You want your family to suffer? It's gonna backfire on you anyways. So, you know, I let him go.
Toliy [01:54:27]:
Yeah.
Gary [01:54:28]:
Right. I mean, how you stop somebody from doing something stupid. Stupid that will hurt you.
Eldar [01:54:34]:
Human.
Mike [01:54:35]:
And if you're doing this, you're saying you did this with me, why aren't you standing? The same thing.
Eldar [01:54:40]:
You didn't like the outcome.
Mike [01:54:41]:
Oh, you didn't like the outcome?
Toliy [01:54:42]:
Well, well, no. He said. He said that he was forced into be like. Because he couldn't. He couldn't do anything. Maybe Emma has to force him then.
Gary [01:54:50]:
And now is a big difference. It's a big difference. There is a kid involved.
Eldar [01:54:56]:
Why is.
Gary [01:54:56]:
There's a. There is a kid involved.
Eldar [01:54:58]:
Why? So what?
Gary [01:54:59]:
Francisco. I know I don't want him to. To suffer because of her, of his mom.
Eldar [01:55:05]:
But is it an actual course of how things. How things play out in life? Kids do suffer because of stupidity of their parents. Like, why is that? Like, I know you don't want to do it, but like, that's a natural course of how things go.
Toliy [01:55:20]:
I don't think anybody here wants to see Francisco, but I can't.
Eldar [01:55:23]:
Nobody wants to see Francisco software.
Toliy [01:55:25]:
Nobody.
Gary [01:55:25]:
But I can't just stand and let it happen.
Toliy [01:55:28]:
Why not?
Gary [01:55:29]:
Because I can't let him suffer because of his parents stupidity. I mean, it's not his fault. He didn't deserve it.
Eldar [01:55:42]:
Yeah.
Toliy [01:55:42]:
I mean.
Gary [01:55:46]:
Right. I didn't kick her out of the house. So let her stay.
Mike [01:55:48]:
But what can you do about him not to suffer besides showing him that you love him?
Eldar [01:55:52]:
Try.
Gary [01:55:53]:
Try to somehow fix them up. No, try. Try to somehow affect Emily. Emily's behavior. Emily's decisions.
Mike [01:56:04]:
She.
Gary [01:56:05]:
She can. She can't go back, right? She can't go back.
Eldar [01:56:08]:
It's.
Gary [01:56:08]:
It's to me. It's to. To me. It's absolutely unacceptable. Like, it just can't happen. Cannot happen. Mike says, what do you want from her? They've been together 10 years. 10 years.
Gary [01:56:23]:
Are you expecting this to happen in one week?
Mike [01:56:27]:
I said to me, it's like, I think it's inevitable.
Gary [01:56:30]:
I said, no, it's not true. They've been together, let's say, 10 years, but they've been fighting. They haven't had great relationship. And it was always. It was always about to happen. It just. Emily wasn't ready.
Mike [01:56:51]:
She's ready now.
Gary [01:56:53]:
Well, that's what she says.
Eldar [01:56:55]:
And now all of a sudden, you believe her.
Gary [01:56:58]:
Well, that's. That's what par. That's. That's another thing. That's. That is. That is.
Eldar [01:57:03]:
She knows how to sell you.
Gary [01:57:05]:
That is a separate topic. Parents. Parents believing in their children.
Eldar [01:57:09]:
Their children.
Gary [01:57:10]:
That's a completely similar. Separate.
Mike [01:57:11]:
But is it foolish for you to believe? I think.
Eldar [01:57:13]:
I think there's an attachment there, and the attachment is very strong. Obviously, Gary, as a father of you guys.
Mike [01:57:19]:
Yeah.
Eldar [01:57:20]:
Wants you to be your best selves. You know what I mean? He wants you to be happy. You know what I mean? He wants you to be successful. We.
Gary [01:57:25]:
I want to prevent something that can be prevented. Right? Can be prevented. What Mike did could be. Could have been prevented. What she did could have been prevented.
Eldar [01:57:35]:
I completely disagree.
Gary [01:57:36]:
I definitely did something wrong. I mean, we all, you know, all did something wrong. Me and Irina and other people, we all did something wrong. I don't take blame of me, but at least I'm trying to fix the situation.
Mike [01:57:53]:
Yeah, but are you confident that the way you're trying to fix it is the right approach?
Gary [01:57:58]:
I don't see any other ways.
Eldar [01:58:00]:
That's the thing. Yeah. He's doing. He's employing what he knows and what he thinks to be right.
Gary [01:58:04]:
So I certainly don't want to hurt anybody.
Eldar [01:58:08]:
You can challenge him.
Toliy [01:58:09]:
It's also a very difficult. It's a difficult situation to challenge because Gary's not a parent where he's saying that, like, okay, like, I'm not doing shit. Right? Like, I. I think the difficult hurdle here for him to jump is that he's willing, like, he's ready to take action right now.
Eldar [01:58:27]:
Yeah.
Toliy [01:58:27]:
He's wanting to go in the middle of night, grab all the shit and leave.
Eldar [01:58:29]:
Yeah, Right.
Toliy [01:58:30]:
Like, he's ready to go.
Eldar [01:58:31]:
He's ready.
Toliy [01:58:32]:
Like, he's ready to make moves. Well, that's the hard part.
Gary [01:58:35]:
Someone else in my. You know what he would have done? He would have said, you know what? I don't think you're ready. Take your stuff and go back. Right.
Eldar [01:58:45]:
Why would that be a bad situation.
Gary [01:58:49]:
Again, if she was. If it was only concerning Emily.
Eldar [01:58:53]:
Yeah, but I would not send her. You're not sending her to anything different that she wasn't doing already. Like she's already been doing that.
Gary [01:59:00]:
Yeah.
Eldar [01:59:01]:
So I don't see how that could not be an effective method to say, okay, cool, like if you're not ready, you know, ready, don't use my credit history and don't use my house right now because you're clearly showing that you want to continue doing your life. No problem. When you're ready, I'm here. It sounds like you're not ready. Go, go, go. Try it out.
Gary [01:59:18]:
Yeah, I don't see how there is also Francisca factor.
Mike [01:59:22]:
Are you assuming that the Francisco factor is worse if you send her back and better if you don't send her back? And if you do, how do you know? How are you getting to the conclusion that Emma going and moving out and Gus probably moving in with them is gonna be better for Francisco and will maybe shorten the time they're together? These are all open ended questions that I'm not sure if anybody has answers to.
Gary [01:59:50]:
Well, out of the situations, this scenario when she moves out to that apartment and bring him with her is better than them staying in that basement.
Eldar [02:00:04]:
Oh, wow. Of course, of course. I didn't know that thing. Did you know that?
Mike [02:00:10]:
I know. I never heard it before. So you're okay with them moving in if he moves in with her?
Gary [02:00:16]:
Better for Francisco. Because eventually, eventually I don't see them living together. Like if it doesn't happen this time, it'll happen tomorrow or next year or two years from now, even if they move in together in a different place. And it's just, it's just not gonna last. It just can't.
Mike [02:00:40]:
The relationship won't last, you're saying?
Gary [02:00:41]:
No, they haven't.
Mike [02:00:42]:
So if you know this.
Gary [02:00:47]:
Yeah, but it still made me mad because she, because I was, I was afraid that's what's gonna happen.
Mike [02:00:53]:
Because you thought that this was over and over and done.
Gary [02:00:55]:
It wasn't. It wasn't. The idea was not. They're gonna be living there together.
Mike [02:01:00]:
Did you think the day when she came over, when we did the whole thing that you thought it's, it, it's over, it's done. Forever.
Gary [02:01:10]:
Most likely. No, no, no, not, not 100, no. But she. Well, you remember I told her, I said, listen, if you decided that you're gonna Move out. It's not, it's. There's no reason for you to wait another two weeks or three weeks. Do it today. Right.
Eldar [02:01:28]:
Oh, so you decided.
Gary [02:01:30]:
Yeah, I said, listen, if you decided to move out, don't wait. Do it today.
Eldar [02:01:36]:
Wow, that's interesting.
Mike [02:01:38]:
See, yeah, you had your own agenda here.
Gary [02:01:40]:
Because I was afraid that she's gonna. She's gonna go. Yeah.
Eldar [02:01:43]:
And she did.
Mike [02:01:44]:
And she did.
Gary [02:01:45]:
I don't know if she did. Who said she did?
Eldar [02:01:47]:
What do you mean?
Gary [02:01:48]:
I don't know if she did?
Eldar [02:01:49]:
She has clearly doing stuff that she, you, you, you. You disagree with. Huh? She's clearly doing stuff that you disagree with.
Gary [02:01:58]:
Well, they spent together. When was it? Monday or Tuesday. But since then it didn't happen.
Eldar [02:02:07]:
So you're okay with that?
Gary [02:02:09]:
She stayed home. She didn't go anywhere. I think. I think they went out Tuesday, I think.
Mike [02:02:15]:
Yeah.
Eldar [02:02:16]:
And you under the impression that she's okay with staying here and continuing to do this back and forth kind of thing? And you're good with that? This is a victory for you if.
Gary [02:02:32]:
She is not seeing him, if she.
Eldar [02:02:34]:
Stays living with you for the time.
Gary [02:02:37]:
Yeah. But she's moving out in a couple of weeks.
Mike [02:02:39]:
Yeah.
Eldar [02:02:40]:
Oh, you're allowing her to move out?
Gary [02:02:42]:
She's moving out to newer place.
Eldar [02:02:44]:
Okay.
Gary [02:02:45]:
To a new place.
Eldar [02:02:45]:
Yeah. Yeah, Because I heard that you weren't gonna allow her to move out.
Gary [02:02:51]:
For some reason she convinced herself that she has to show him the kids. Right? And I tell her, that's fine if you want to. If want him, he's the father. If he wants to see the kid, tell him to go to the mall and I'll bring you to the mall. He spends half an hour, an hour, two hours there at the mall. Then I pick you up, bring you home. He goes to his house. But I said you never spend six hours together in your whole life together.
Gary [02:03:21]:
You usually wait for him six hours on the weekend to take you somewhere. I said you never spent six hours before in a day. Never. I said, why all of a sudden you spending six hours with this idiot? What's the point? I said, if he wants to see a kid who has nothing to do with. He doesn't know what to do with Francisca. No clue. Just meet him in the mall, spend an hour, two hours, whatever. Have food, have meal, and then go your separate ways.
Gary [02:03:52]:
Yeah, but she's not doing it. She's spending. She spent six hours last Saturday, six hours last Sunday, and then a couple of hours on Tuesday. I don't know what they did where they went, technically, it's not my business, but if it stops, then. Then I'm happy. If not, I don't know. But we decided not to get involved for now. We decided let her do whatever she wants to do.
Mike [02:04:28]:
Oh, I don't know.
Gary [02:04:30]:
We decided.
Mike [02:04:30]:
When did you guys decide this?
Gary [02:04:31]:
Well, you know, the next morning, after mom got upset, Irina just gave up. She just freaked out. You know, if she freaked out, then things are definitely not good.
Eldar [02:04:42]:
Yeah.
Gary [02:04:45]:
But the next morning, she said, you know what? I don't care. Let her do whatever she wants to do. She said, I don't care anymore.
Mike [02:04:53]:
I think that's the right approach.
Eldar [02:04:55]:
Yeah.
Mike [02:04:55]:
You can love Francisco, you know, show him the love and what he needs from you guys and give them that. And Emma, when she's open to it too, you know, like, that's all you can do.
Eldar [02:05:05]:
Right?
Mike [02:05:06]:
Love them.
Eldar [02:05:07]:
Yeah.
Mike [02:05:07]:
And accept them the way they are.
Eldar [02:05:09]:
Yeah.
Mike [02:05:09]:
Yeah. And so she's right.
Eldar [02:05:14]:
So they chose not to worry anymore.
Gary [02:05:15]:
Well, she is ready. She's 100% ready. The problem is he's playing mind games with her. And I told. I didn't tell her, but I told. Oh, yeah, I told Mike.
Mike [02:05:29]:
He has a conspiracy theory about this.
Eldar [02:05:31]:
Oh, that's totally thing.
Gary [02:05:32]:
Yeah, that's my theory. And I know for a fact that's because he's doing it subconsciously. He's. Look, we all want to survive, right? When we put in certain situations all we want. We want to survive, all our mechanisms start turning on. Right? And as stupid as he is, he is very stupid. But he knows for him to survive, he needs to bring her back one way or another. So he's promising her this and that.
Gary [02:06:07]:
I don't know what he's promising her. He's probably promising he's gonna take care of her. He's gonna take care of Francisco and this and that. But the minute he breaks her and brings her back, he's gonna go back to the way he was because there's no other way.
Mike [02:06:25]:
You don't think she's gonna.
Eldar [02:06:27]:
But that's not a conspiracy. That's a pretty logical.
Gary [02:06:29]:
He's incapable of changing.
Mike [02:06:31]:
Yeah.
Gary [02:06:31]:
And he is incapable of doing those things that he should be doing.
Eldar [02:06:34]:
Yeah. Yeah.
Toliy [02:06:35]:
But then eventually that's gonna stop working, right? Just maybe not now.
Mike [02:06:40]:
That wasn't the conspiracy theory I was thinking about.
Eldar [02:06:41]:
Okay, cool.
Mike [02:06:42]:
Yeah.
Eldar [02:06:42]:
Yeah. Because I was like, that's perfectly normal. That's a reasonable.
Toliy [02:06:45]:
Yeah, that's a normal thing. When someone's desperate, they're gonna.
Gary [02:06:47]:
If anybody says that, I'M wrong.
Eldar [02:06:50]:
I agree with you. I agree with you.
Gary [02:06:53]:
Look, if I was in. He's an evil guy. Okay, let's.
Eldar [02:06:58]:
This is where you go.
Gary [02:06:59]:
And that's what evil? Yes, that's what evil guy would do.
Eldar [02:07:02]:
Well, no, no, because you can't say one thing. It's a. It's a survival mechanism, Gary. And another side. You say evil. It's not. It's. You know, I can.
Gary [02:07:11]:
I'll tell you why.
Eldar [02:07:12]:
Okay, so then you're saying he's a parasite.
Gary [02:07:14]:
Oh, absolutely, absolutely.
Eldar [02:07:17]:
Because he's a virus. Look.
Gary [02:07:21]:
People have ability to change.
Eldar [02:07:24]:
That's what I'm saying.
Gary [02:07:25]:
So there have to be a will.
Eldar [02:07:28]:
This might be the display of that will. He's desperate. You don't know. You have to give him a chance.
Gary [02:07:35]:
He had a chance.
Eldar [02:07:36]:
Oh, okay, so, okay, so this is what chance number 10.
Gary [02:07:39]:
When his second son was born, the God gave him a chance. That was his second chance. And he didn't take it. He didn't take it.
Eldar [02:07:48]:
Okay.
Gary [02:07:51]:
What else? It was. It was.
Eldar [02:07:53]:
So it's a survival thing.
Gary [02:07:54]:
Look, let's put it this way. If Francisco wasn't born, Emily would never stayed with him that long. Never. No effing way, right? Well, he would not.
Eldar [02:08:05]:
Can you agree with that?
Gary [02:08:06]:
He would not.
Mike [02:08:06]:
I don't know. Yeah, I don't know about that for sure. Yeah, I don't know.
Gary [02:08:09]:
He wouldn't say. She would.
Mike [02:08:10]:
She did like five years with him already.
Gary [02:08:11]:
She would break up. She would break up. A long time ago. She would have left him. But because of Francisco, she stayed. But I know she hated every single day. I know it.
Mike [02:08:25]:
I don't know that.
Gary [02:08:25]:
Yeah, she hated. Ask her, she'll tell you she hated.
Eldar [02:08:31]:
I think he did ask her and she said that she still has.
Gary [02:08:34]:
In the life of family, in life of family, there is no. There is no 100% happy moments and there is no 100% negative moments, right? There are good days and bad days, right? Tori, Denise, in any family, there is always good days, bad days, right? A lot.
Eldar [02:08:56]:
I agree with you, new family man, 100% right?
Gary [02:08:59]:
In their house, in their family, there is always bad days. There is no good days. I never heard Emily. I never heard Emily coming to me and saying, oh, you know what? We had such a nice day. Me and Gus and Franciske, we went there, we did that. It just never happened. Even worse families, there's always like bright moments. Not in her life.
Mike [02:09:27]:
Does she feel that she could come share those things with you, though?
Gary [02:09:30]:
There is nothing to share, my no.
Mike [02:09:32]:
But I'm asking you, does she feel that you are willing? You, you have stated your position clearly that you hate the guy. Why would I come tell you, like, oh, we had such a good day with.
Gary [02:09:41]:
I made that statement because I know.
Mike [02:09:44]:
Okay, well, then, then.
Eldar [02:09:45]:
Okay.
Mike [02:09:45]:
Yeah.
Gary [02:09:46]:
Because on the weekends she don't. She, she doesn't see him after work. He's always, he always finds the way to run away some. Fix this car or fix that car. On the weekends she waits for him till like 3 o'clock in the afternoon, 4 o'clock in the afternoon just to get out of the bed. So what else family can have a good time other than weekends. No other time. This guy is extremely, extremely stupid.
Mike [02:10:19]:
You are so, so dumb.
Gary [02:10:24]:
Like, hopelessly. Hopelessly done.
Eldar [02:10:27]:
Yeah.
Gary [02:10:28]:
And if you don't know it, just trust me. Not because I hate him so much. I don't even hate the guy. I don't care about him. My concern is that he's raising a child and the child needs.
Eldar [02:10:46]:
Has needs.
Gary [02:10:47]:
Has needs.
Eldar [02:10:47]:
Right.
Gary [02:10:48]:
And those needs are not met at all. I'm doing grandfather doing what he's supposed to be doing.
Eldar [02:10:55]:
Yeah.
Gary [02:10:58]:
I've been offering Emily to go together to, like, Florida so I can spend some time with Francisco on the beach, in the water, playing with. Because nobody can do it. Emma can't do it. Emma can't grab him and take him in the water. She can't. But I can. And that's what my dad did with me. We played in the water on the beach.
Gary [02:11:20]:
So Francisco never had this experience playing with, with that. And I've been dreaming about doing it.
Eldar [02:11:30]:
But that's why you're going to the beach this weekend, you said. I mean, tomorrow.
Gary [02:11:33]:
Yeah, but we're not taking them. Oh, because he has a tissue count. No, we're going because I need to clear my sinus system.
Eldar [02:11:42]:
Yeah.
Gary [02:11:44]:
And also because the season is finishing, so he's not letting Emily go with us on vacation. He's not letting the girl. So what kind of father wouldn't let his son to go with grandparents to the beach? Like, it's unheard of. It's unheard of. He should be thanking me.
Eldar [02:12:09]:
Yeah.
Gary [02:12:10]:
For just for having this design.
Eldar [02:12:12]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, you clearly see that he, you know, he has attachment towards being a good grandfather, showing love and everything else. And he's being, you know, I do.
Gary [02:12:21]:
Everything that I'm required to do.
Eldar [02:12:24]:
Yeah. Okay.
Gary [02:12:24]:
It's my.
Eldar [02:12:25]:
And more. Yeah, yeah.
Gary [02:12:26]:
Maybe not more. I, I could do more. Francisco is a special child. And, you know, A lot of times I don't know how to handle him. Yeah, he's this very special kid.
Eldar [02:12:37]:
Yeah.
Gary [02:12:39]:
But I can certainly handle going to the beach, you know, playing in the water, playing with the sand. I can certainly try that.
Eldar [02:12:45]:
Yeah. Yeah. And you have the desire to do it, so. All right, well, let's. All right, let's do final thoughts. What do you guys think?
Gary [02:12:56]:
What have you learned so far?
Eldar [02:12:58]:
The fight. Yeah. What are the final thoughts? Totally. Why Worrying is a love language. What are your final thoughts on that? Is it effective? What does. And what does it accomplish and who prefers it? Like, those are our questions. I think we went through them and we did a pretty good job at answering all those things. And thank you for bringing up very good examples, real life examples with the stuff.
Eldar [02:13:18]:
And.
Toliy [02:13:19]:
Yeah, I mean, I think that it's hard to answer if it's effective or not because it's like that question can all be answered if you're aware of. Of more effective things or, like, you're aware of, like, different options. Right.
Eldar [02:13:31]:
Well, let's just say that you're. You are a reasonable individual who knows that there are.
Toliy [02:13:35]:
Yeah.
Eldar [02:13:36]:
Other ways.
Toliy [02:13:36]:
Yeah. I mean, then, Simon, like. Yeah. It's not even up for discussion. It's not effective.
Eldar [02:13:41]:
Yeah.
Toliy [02:13:41]:
Right. Yeah. Yeah, I would say it's not effective if. If you're, like, aware of, like, the other options, then what. What's the next one?
Eldar [02:13:55]:
What does it accomplish and who prefers it?
Toliy [02:13:59]:
Yeah. I think when it comes to what does it accomplish is that for the person who's worrying, I think that it gives them some kind of purpose to do something, to potentially help in their own way.
Eldar [02:14:21]:
That's the only way. If that's the only way they know.
Toliy [02:14:22]:
How to do it in that situation. Yeah. And then the. Sorry, what?
Eldar [02:14:29]:
What? What?
Toliy [02:14:30]:
Who prefers it? Yeah, I would say that again. People who don't know better prefer, like, receiving it. And then people who are in situations where they feel a bit hopeless in that scenario.
Eldar [02:14:44]:
Hopeless. Yeah.
Toliy [02:14:45]:
Prefer it because, like, it's a. Yeah. The worrying, like, it's like a warm, like, welcoming thing. Like, it's like. Like it's a very accepting thing.
Eldar [02:14:56]:
Wow.
Mike [02:14:57]:
Do you feel like it's warm and accepting when people worry about you in moments of hopelessness, moments of hope, when.
Eldar [02:15:04]:
You don't know what to do? He says, yeah, it's very comfortable. Yeah.
Toliy [02:15:06]:
Like, for example, if you're in a situation where. Yeah. You don't know what to do and you have a problem. Yeah. Right. Right. Like, if you don't know what to do if. Yeah.
Toliy [02:15:17]:
If you're in a bad scenario, like. Yeah.
Eldar [02:15:22]:
Like.
Toliy [02:15:22]:
And if you're not open to learning or thinking that there's an option out of it. Yeah. The only thing that you want is just to be.
Eldar [02:15:28]:
Yeah.
Toliy [02:15:28]:
You just want someone to feel bad for you. Like, you just want someone to, you know.
Eldar [02:15:32]:
Yeah, that's like.
Toliy [02:15:33]:
It's like a. Yeah, it's like a blanket, like.
Eldar [02:15:37]:
Yeah. I think the funny thing is my mom is away right now, Right. In a different country. And, you know, there's been a couple of days where I haven't talked to her or spoke to her or whatever, and then my dad calls me and goes, did you speak to Mom? I said, no. She goes, you don't care about her because you don't even worry what's going on over there. You know, like, this is kind of almost a duty that I supposed to perform to worry. Right. In order.
Toliy [02:16:02]:
He's saying that you aren't. Therefore.
Eldar [02:16:05]:
Therefore I don't care.
Toliy [02:16:06]:
You don't care sick.
Eldar [02:16:08]:
You know what I'm saying?
Mike [02:16:09]:
Yeah.
Eldar [02:16:09]:
So it's very interesting, you know what I mean?
Gary [02:16:12]:
I mean, that only proved my point that some people are, you know, that's their quality.
Eldar [02:16:20]:
No, that's their preference. It sounds like, at least for my mom or my dad, that's their preference.
Mike [02:16:26]:
No, I suppose that's what they learned, maybe.
Eldar [02:16:29]:
No, that's a preference to.
Mike [02:16:30]:
For me to work.
Toliy [02:16:31]:
No, the preference preference is showing that you have more than one options and you prefer something. I think that there's only that one option. There's no preference here.
Mike [02:16:40]:
This one. Because that's all you know.
Eldar [02:16:41]:
Yeah.
Toliy [02:16:42]:
If there's different things in the menu.
Eldar [02:16:43]:
That'S all they ask you for, what you're saying.
Mike [02:16:45]:
No, but that's not true. But they do other stuff too.
Eldar [02:16:47]:
No, but in the.
Mike [02:16:48]:
In.
Toliy [02:16:49]:
In the moment I'm saying that.
Mike [02:16:51]:
So the only. The preference to a situation where somebody's like.
Eldar [02:16:56]:
Like he's asking for worry.
Toliy [02:16:58]:
He wants preference that there's five options and you select one of them. Right. If there's only one of one, then there.
Mike [02:17:04]:
But again, they have other ways of showing love, though. They show love, but in this kind of situation where you might be down or you might need some support.
Eldar [02:17:12]:
Yeah.
Mike [02:17:13]:
They only know how to give support in a worrying way.
Eldar [02:17:16]:
Yeah.
Toliy [02:17:16]:
There's only one way.
Gary [02:17:19]:
When we are away for more than few days.
Eldar [02:17:22]:
Okay.
Gary [02:17:23]:
When we are Irene and I. When we're away.
Eldar [02:17:25]:
Yeah.
Gary [02:17:26]:
And Mike doesn't call us. I'm not angry, but I'm like, wait a second. You know, he didn't call. He didn't ask how we are. We're alive or we're good.
Mike [02:17:37]:
Yeah.
Gary [02:17:38]:
He never. He rarely. Rarely calls.
Mike [02:17:41]:
Yeah, I don't call.
Toliy [02:17:41]:
Yeah, I have a. I have a mic drop moment for you guys.
Eldar [02:17:46]:
Okay.
Toliy [02:17:47]:
I mean, it's a funny one, right?
Eldar [02:17:49]:
But it's uphill.
Toliy [02:17:50]:
Like a mic drop moment. When my grandma and my mom were talking on the phone. Right.
Eldar [02:17:56]:
Today, Today about that.
Toliy [02:17:58]:
Yeah. My grandma was like, you know, she was worrying. She was like that. And she was like, you know, I'm trying to keep myself busy, stuff like that. My grandma's like, you wouldn't believe what I did. And she was like, I was worrying and stuff like that. And I was trying to keep myself busy. And she was like.
Mike [02:18:17]:
Wow.
Eldar [02:18:18]:
Wow. Sick. Yeah. Yeah.
Toliy [02:18:21]:
So she's like, come on home.
Eldar [02:18:23]:
Like, yeah, I got lunch for you. Sick.
Mike [02:18:26]:
Yeah, See, I also, when you love language.
Eldar [02:18:29]:
Yeah.
Mike [02:18:29]:
See, you know what? When Gary just said that, I started thinking, I don't call.
Eldar [02:18:35]:
Yeah.
Mike [02:18:35]:
But it's because. Not that I don't care what they're doing by way, I don't care. Like, yo, you guys having fun? Your vacation?
Eldar [02:18:41]:
Yeah.
Mike [02:18:42]:
I see you guys every single day.
Eldar [02:18:43]:
Yeah. My mom's very busy.
Mike [02:18:45]:
I know. You guys hanging out, relaxing.
Eldar [02:18:47]:
Yeah.
Mike [02:18:48]:
I don't care about that. But it's not that I don't care like, that you're okay. But it's more so, like, I don't want it to be in genuine where I'm calling because of some ridiculous, stupid stuff.
Eldar [02:19:01]:
Yeah. That's like.
Mike [02:19:02]:
Because, like, I miss you or I really want to know how you doing.
Eldar [02:19:05]:
Yeah.
Mike [02:19:06]:
Or I thought about like, hey, I want to do. And they're enjoying the vacation.
Eldar [02:19:08]:
Yeah.
Mike [02:19:09]:
I don't want to call you to say, oh, my God, are you guys okay?
Toliy [02:19:11]:
Checking one, check to check in three.
Eldar [02:19:13]:
Yeah.
Mike [02:19:13]:
Like, again, the intention for my call. And if I do call them, which is rare, I'll be calling because I genuinely miss them.
Eldar [02:19:19]:
Yeah.
Mike [02:19:19]:
I was, you know, I'm home relaxing, not doing anything. I want to see how they're doing, but not because I worry about them.
Eldar [02:19:25]:
Yeah.
Mike [02:19:26]:
Because I wouldn't want to call somebody. Like, I don't feel it's a good intention. That's not a good reason to do that.
Eldar [02:19:31]:
Yeah.
Mike [02:19:32]:
To call somebody because you're worried.
Eldar [02:19:34]:
Yeah.
Mike [02:19:34]:
Surely call them.
Gary [02:19:36]:
You know, you can always text us.
Mike [02:19:39]:
I don't want to text you either, because I'm also a relaxing bad boy.
Eldar [02:19:42]:
Like me.
Mike [02:19:43]:
Yeah.
Eldar [02:19:43]:
Bad boy like me. Yeah. Yeah, no, but, like, I was being put into a guilt trip for my dad as to say, well, you don't care about your mama stuff. You're not worrying about what she's doing over there and how she's doing.
Mike [02:19:52]:
Yeah.
Eldar [02:19:53]:
Obviously this is not true. You know what I mean? I do care. You know what I mean? But, like, I know that she's busy and she's doing her.
Mike [02:19:59]:
I mean, it's also ridiculous. You guys not in the jungle in Africa.
Eldar [02:20:01]:
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Mike [02:20:02]:
Safari. Yeah. Alligators running around.
Eldar [02:20:05]:
Yes. Where I have to worry about.
Mike [02:20:09]:
What are we talking about?
Eldar [02:20:10]:
Yeah, this is true.
Mike [02:20:11]:
What, am I worried that the. The shrimp didn't come out hot enough?
Eldar [02:20:15]:
Hot enough.
Mike [02:20:15]:
Yes.
Gary [02:20:15]:
You know, no, we just. We just miss you, that's all.
Eldar [02:20:19]:
Yeah.
Mike [02:20:19]:
Oh, yeah.
Gary [02:20:20]:
As simple as that.
Eldar [02:20:23]:
Well, the missing is cool. Fine. You know, if my dad said, hey, your mom misses you. Yeah. She clearly said it. Call her. Yeah, but I also think that if she misses me, she'll call me.
Gary [02:20:33]:
Yeah, well, that's the thing. We don't want to bother him.
Eldar [02:20:36]:
Ah, that one. I love that one. I love that one. Yeah, I started reversing it on my mom. What do you mean?
Toliy [02:20:42]:
I started telling you. I started to reverse it.
Eldar [02:20:43]:
I started reverse it, too. Every time I call my mom, I'm like, mom, how come you didn't call me in two days? I'm over here waiting for you.
Gary [02:20:49]:
You.
Eldar [02:20:49]:
What the hell? I'm your son. You know what I mean? I miss you. How come you don't call me? Oh, I don't want to bother you. I'm like, what do you mean, bother me? You don't bother me. You know, she's always hiding behind the bother part.
Gary [02:20:58]:
Yeah, well, and sometimes when I do bother him, he is busy because Gary.
Mike [02:21:03]:
Will call me the day after they left. I'm like, my man. You just left. Like, I didn't.
Eldar [02:21:08]:
Like, I didn't realize you've gone yet. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yes. Like, you know. Yes. Yeah.
Mike [02:21:13]:
Don't be so emotional.
Eldar [02:21:14]:
Like, you just left.
Mike [02:21:16]:
I didn't have a chance to miss you. I'm busy.
Eldar [02:21:18]:
Yeah.
Mike [02:21:18]:
You know, I'm relaxing. I'm getting like, yeah, we need time off.
Eldar [02:21:22]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's funny.
Mike [02:21:23]:
Need time to, like, you know, relax.
Eldar [02:21:25]:
To get to miss each other.
Mike [02:21:26]:
Yeah.
Eldar [02:21:26]:
Yes, it's true.
Mike [02:21:27]:
You know, this is true. So definitely fun.
Eldar [02:21:30]:
So you finished with your final thoughts? Yeah. Yes, sir Dennis. Or you want to go this way? Yeah, my final thoughts is about worrying. Yeah. As a love language. Yeah.
Mike [02:21:42]:
No, my only final thoughts Is hope.
Eldar [02:21:44]:
That by the time I'm a parent, Gary's parent school comes out. Because I think it's necessary. You should out of luck. What? By the time you're a parent that the Gary's parent school's gonna come out. No chance.
Mike [02:21:58]:
There's six months. Not enough time. Yeah.
Eldar [02:22:01]:
Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Shots fire. Why put it on me with the hell.
Mike [02:22:10]:
Because you said it.
Eldar [02:22:11]:
I. What do I say?
Mike [02:22:13]:
That no chance.
Eldar [02:22:14]:
No chance what?
Mike [02:22:15]:
No chance that the school's going to be out.
Eldar [02:22:18]:
There's no chance that the school's going to be out in six months.
Mike [02:22:20]:
In six months. I just put a time on it. But you were saying.
Eldar [02:22:23]:
Yeah, you could print six months.
Mike [02:22:26]:
Yeah, I got you.
Toliy [02:22:28]:
You can print business cards by.
Mike [02:22:31]:
By then. Yeah, damn.
Eldar [02:22:32]:
Do you out of luck. All right, Gary, what are your final thoughts on the subject? I think you said a lot, but I think maybe you have some final thoughts as well.
Gary [02:22:42]:
I think, I think. I don't know.
Mike [02:22:48]:
No final thoughts.
Gary [02:22:49]:
I think it could be. I think it could be a good thing. I think it could be an annoying thing. But there is nothing you can do. You know, some people, they worry. Some people, they don't. You know, everyone is different. You can't stop it.
Gary [02:23:02]:
You can prevent it. You can teach not to. And you can't teach to worry. You know how your heart tells you.
Eldar [02:23:10]:
Yeah.
Gary [02:23:11]:
So you have just have to accept it. That's it.
Toliy [02:23:21]:
Is it an unreasonable request to come, for example, to a parent and say like, hey, I would actually like for you to love me like this.
Eldar [02:23:30]:
Through worrying.
Toliy [02:23:31]:
No, no, not like this.
Mike [02:23:33]:
And this. No, like, what the.
Toliy [02:23:35]:
No, no, I'm saying, like, is it unreasonable for like a kid to come to a parent say, hey, hey, mom, or hey, dad? I would actually like for you to like me in X, Y and z way.
Gary [02:23:46]:
You know what?
Eldar [02:23:47]:
I think so.
Toliy [02:23:48]:
Yeah.
Gary [02:23:49]:
I don't think you. I don't think parents, any parents, like I can say for myself, but I can probably say for many other parents. For your parents, probably. I don't think parents really want a lot. They don't really want a lot from you. They don't want that much.
Toliy [02:24:10]:
Yeah, but it's a very like, like, like what's called. That's like a.
Eldar [02:24:17]:
A hidden treasure opinion, right?
Toliy [02:24:19]:
Like, like you could say they don't want a lot. And someone else could say like, you're actually asking for too much.
Eldar [02:24:25]:
Well, I think I was. Can say that right now. If Emma was here, she's gonna be like, yeah, right. You want A lot from me right now.
Mike [02:24:31]:
You know what I mean?
Eldar [02:24:31]:
You want me to change my whole life.
Toliy [02:24:32]:
Yeah.
Eldar [02:24:33]:
For the better.
Gary [02:24:35]:
The older we're getting, the more attention we need. Right.
Eldar [02:24:38]:
As parents or as kids.
Gary [02:24:40]:
As parents.
Eldar [02:24:40]:
Okay.
Mike [02:24:41]:
But.
Toliy [02:24:42]:
But it's also. I think there's a generational thing because, like, Gary is talking about, like, I. I think what. What seems to him like basic things. Right. Basic, like, come talk to me. Like, don't live with a guy who does this.
Eldar [02:24:55]:
Right. Yeah, yeah.
Toliy [02:24:56]:
They're more of like, more of like, I guess, like basic things.
Eldar [02:25:00]:
Yeah.
Toliy [02:25:01]:
Where like, these are like, yo. Like, how are you not doing them? Like, yeah, this is like one plus one. I have self respect.
Eldar [02:25:07]:
Like, easy.
Toliy [02:25:08]:
Be a person of your word, you know?
Eldar [02:25:10]:
Right. Like, keep your word.
Toliy [02:25:12]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I feel like. Yeah. Like there. There are some things that maybe parents ask from kids that are. They're basic to them, but to the kids are very complicated. And then vice versa. There's some things that kids ask from the parents that they feel are very basic and to the parents are very complicated.
Eldar [02:25:29]:
Yeah. But then you Then. Then you would say that there's a, again, a problem in parenting that. That wasn't passed down. If Gary believed and valued keeping your word, he should install those things into Mike and Emma. That means he didn't do a good job at doing that. If he actually values that. If you're saying that this is pretty basic and this is what he wants.
Eldar [02:25:52]:
Right. Then it should have been easy to pass that on to your kids. But it's not that easy. It's not that easy to pass on that thing that you're talking about.
Mike [02:26:01]:
Yeah.
Toliy [02:26:02]:
That's a hard thing.
Eldar [02:26:03]:
It's a hard thing to pass that on.
Gary [02:26:05]:
Well, especially if you don't have to.
Eldar [02:26:08]:
Yeah.
Gary [02:26:09]:
Kids don't come with instruction.
Eldar [02:26:11]:
Exactly. It's a very good point. Yeah. You just have them. You just have them. Like your mom said, even. Right. Well, you said, hey, mom, sounds like this is a very stressful experience to have kids and then have to worry for them all your life.
Eldar [02:26:23]:
And she said, yeah, it is. And you said, sounds like I don't want to have kids. And she goes, no, no, no, no, no. You want to have kids.
Toliy [02:26:30]:
No. Yeah. She told me it's worth it.
Gary [02:26:33]:
You see, it's not. It's not an easy job.
Eldar [02:26:36]:
Yeah.
Gary [02:26:36]:
To be a parent, especially if you want your kids to be, you know, decent.
Toliy [02:26:41]:
Yeah. And again, the way it is in America, I think that like. Or like, I mean, any country probably, like, you know, both parents have to work. Yeah, this and that.
Eldar [02:26:51]:
When do you have the time to think and read the manual about kids?
Gary [02:26:55]:
It also depends on expectations. Like, what do you expect?
Eldar [02:26:58]:
Yeah. Yeah.
Gary [02:27:01]:
You expect your child to be successful, healthy, smart and caring and so on.
Eldar [02:27:09]:
Yeah.
Toliy [02:27:09]:
But I mean, there's also a line that I feel like parents use, but I'm not. But like, I think based on their actions, I'm not sure if they really mean it. Right. Like, there's a very common line. They say, like, hey, I just want you to be happy. Right. But then come certain things. It's like, what if someone's happy doing something that you're not happy with? Right.
Eldar [02:27:32]:
Yeah. I want to be. I want to be an ice skater. No, I need you to be a car mechanic.
Gary [02:27:38]:
Describe a doctor.
Eldar [02:27:39]:
Huh?
Gary [02:27:40]:
Describe happiness.
Toliy [02:27:41]:
Well, the happiness is. Is like a subjective for each person.
Eldar [02:27:47]:
Right, of course.
Toliy [02:27:49]:
All right.
Gary [02:27:51]:
Back in the days when we had our fights with Mike, that's what he was trying to convince me. You just. You just don't. You just want me to be happy? Yeah, of course I want you to be happy. But.
Eldar [02:28:02]:
But your happiness and your happiness driving.
Gary [02:28:04]:
Driving cars that you don't deserve or like, what do you. What. How you. How you define happiness?
Eldar [02:28:13]:
What's.
Gary [02:28:13]:
What. What you happy? What makes you happy? How can I be happy if you. If you putting. If you stealing my credit cards and you. And you buy. You're buying bikes every year.
Mike [02:28:28]:
But.
Toliy [02:28:29]:
But sometimes you have to exhaust the things that don't make you happy to realize what actually makes you happy.
Eldar [02:28:34]:
But he doesn't agree with that approach.
Mike [02:28:37]:
And you can't be a paper taker.
Gary [02:28:39]:
This is true. I think we should all think about how to obviously to. To show you that you care. I think that's. I think that's important. Worry. I don't know.
Eldar [02:28:55]:
Yes. Very good. I'm glad it's actually coming from you. Mike, any final thoughts on this subject?
Mike [02:29:13]:
Yeah, I have. I have a lot. But more questions about it, but a lot more thoughts around it. But initially it's like, if you worry and it doesn't affect the outcome, why worry? You know?
Eldar [02:29:28]:
Oh, he can say that it actually does affect the outcome.
Mike [02:29:32]:
I think it's actually also a Buddhist thing. If you have. If you worry about a situation. Situation. And you can't change about it, then don't worry about it, you know?
Eldar [02:29:40]:
Yeah.
Toliy [02:29:40]:
Because you can't change the conviction to believe that.
Mike [02:29:43]:
Well, isn't that what we're trying to accomplish here? We're trying to look at things in a logical way. And that's part of it. So with, along with that, I'll also say if it's logical to worry, then you should worry. You're entitled to worry. If it's not logical to worry, then you shouldn't worry, you know.
Eldar [02:29:58]:
Wow. Yeah.
Mike [02:29:59]:
You know, I guess everything. I guess everything that we're talking about, it always comes back to the truth. Is. Is worrying rooted in the truth? Do you have a reason to worry? You know, if, if there's a really terminal situation where, you know, life or death. Yeah. I think you could worry because it's life or death situation.
Eldar [02:30:18]:
But even, even now you can argue.
Toliy [02:30:19]:
No, but I also know that I'm a. Like, I can. I also can. Like, I'm smart enough to connect my worrying to lack of action. So I'm supposed to worry.
Mike [02:30:29]:
Well, yeah, again, but the thing is, if you're. If you're rooted in truth, which clearly your lack of action is not rooted in the truth because if you say something, you don't do it. It's not ruined truth. You should worry.
Eldar [02:30:41]:
Yeah.
Mike [02:30:41]:
Because you're full of shit. But if you have a clear conscience and you live in a truthful, honest life.
Eldar [02:30:45]:
Yeah.
Mike [02:30:46]:
Nothing to worry about.
Toliy [02:30:47]:
Yeah, but that, that, yeah, that's cool. That's a paradoxical way. Is that like worrying? Worrying exists for those who need it.
Eldar [02:30:57]:
Yeah.
Mike [02:30:58]:
Again, it doesn't exist.
Toliy [02:31:01]:
You don't need it.
Mike [02:31:02]:
If you don't have a clear conscience, you know, then you should work. You kind of earned the right to worry and to suffer because of it.
Eldar [02:31:10]:
Yeah.
Mike [02:31:10]:
Dr. K, you know.
Eldar [02:31:11]:
Yeah. Well, what up, D?
Mike [02:31:14]:
Dr. K. Visiting today as always, you know. So I think, yeah, worrying is a side effect of not maybe caring, you.
Toliy [02:31:25]:
Know, well, or just not understanding the reality of like the, the, the truth of a situation. Like, yes, there is a bus that could hit any of us at any moment.
Eldar [02:31:37]:
Yeah.
Toliy [02:31:38]:
That is possible. Any of us can get hit by a bus. Like it is possible.
Mike [02:31:41]:
What if it's like a food bus? Yeah, like a food combo bus.
Toliy [02:31:47]:
Yeah. And I think that, like, the more action that, that, that you take, I think that you'll see a little bit of worrying drop off every. Every time.
Mike [02:31:57]:
Yeah.
Toliy [02:31:58]:
Like, though, like the, like the worrying I think is like the clearing of like the skin once you actually evolve into.
Eldar [02:32:05]:
Yeah.
Toliy [02:32:06]:
Something else.
Mike [02:32:08]:
I think the gig is up with worrying.
Eldar [02:32:10]:
Yeah. My final thoughts are the worrying actually paralyzes good action. Right. And caring. It paralyzes you.
Mike [02:32:19]:
Worrying is a, Is paralyzing. Paralyze you from good action.
Eldar [02:32:23]:
Correct. Yeah. And it stops you from then caring. It's actually when you worry, you can't care, you just worry.
Mike [02:32:32]:
Yeah.
Eldar [02:32:32]:
You're in the moment of worry.
Mike [02:32:34]:
So is worrying a selfish design thing then?
Eldar [02:32:36]:
Well, it definitely is. I think, I think the more if we discuss it a little bit more, I think worrying, you quickly find out that it's coping mechanism. It's a coping mechanism to your own bullshit. Right. Because as soon as you get into acting of caring. Caring requires actual actions. Right. That needs to be done.
Eldar [02:32:53]:
Right, right. By you. Right, right. And that's the display of love. That's a different display of love, I think. Right. Worrying, like I think Gary said, is a very primitive way of showing that you do care somewhere deep inside, but yet you have not found a way to display that in acting in accordance of love. Right.
Toliy [02:33:11]:
So.
Eldar [02:33:12]:
So that's a very basic. It's a baby. It's a tiny tadpole.
Mike [02:33:16]:
Yeah.
Eldar [02:33:16]:
Of. Of love language, which is worrying.
Toliy [02:33:20]:
Yeah, it's. Worrying freezes time.
Eldar [02:33:23]:
Yeah, yeah, exactly. It freezes time. It freezes action, it freezes everything. Because when you're worrying, you're not doing anything but worrying. And it's a.
Mike [02:33:33]:
Worrying is for sure. It sounds like it's a. No, I'm not sure for sure, but it sounds like it's a karma thing.
Gary [02:33:38]:
I wonder what Jordan Peterson.
Eldar [02:33:42]:
He wouldn't be able to say anything that we didn't say today.
Gary [02:33:45]:
Boring.
Eldar [02:33:45]:
Yeah.
Mike [02:33:46]:
I don't know who that is, but he sounds like a dummy. That's because he is.
Eldar [02:33:50]:
No, I'm just saying I know Jordan Peterson. Yeah. He's also psychologist, philosopher. Yeah, he's good. He knows some of the stuff for sure. He's very strong about it.
Mike [02:33:56]:
Dennis definitely follows him.
Eldar [02:33:57]:
Right.
Toliy [02:33:57]:
He wears a suit.
Eldar [02:33:58]:
I'm not sure if Dennis knows him.
Mike [02:33:59]:
Yeah, maybe Dennis only follows like Sagurus type of guys.
Eldar [02:34:02]:
Sad guru guys. Yeah. But ultimately, if you are the type. If you are the type of person that constantly see himself find himself worrying is. Is. Is hopefully you find yourself to find a way to stop worrying because, you know, you're living a very unfulfilling, I think life or expression of love because we can show love to ourselves through different ways, as we know, as we discovered.
Toliy [02:34:28]:
You just have to have to be like, open up to those ways and feel those ways and get to a point where you can.
Eldar [02:34:34]:
Yeah. If you want to. No, listen.
Toliy [02:34:35]:
Yeah.
Eldar [02:34:35]:
I'm not saying that you should do it and this is requirement.
Toliy [02:34:38]:
Yeah, true.
Eldar [02:34:38]:
It's your choice. But I think that the more if we examine worry itself and where it's.
Toliy [02:34:43]:
You're not going to be able to worry.
Eldar [02:34:44]:
You're not going to be able to worry.
Toliy [02:34:45]:
No.
Mike [02:34:46]:
Because you have a clear conscience that you did the right thing by the person.
Eldar [02:34:48]:
Correct. And you're going to choose. You're going to choose doing the right thing more than you think.
Mike [02:34:52]:
Yeah.
Eldar [02:34:52]:
You're going to remove worrying. You're going to start becoming an actor.
Mike [02:34:55]:
You actually won't be able to worry, probably.
Eldar [02:34:56]:
Right. It's impossible. I think it will be impossible if you start taking a real action through love, through unconditional logic. Logic and stuff like that, in truth. So worrying will subside. The moment of, like, panic. Right. When Dennis gets into an accident or whatever, he goes not into worrying because he understands that, look, this girl is about to have a fit, a breakdown, a meltdown, a panic.
Eldar [02:35:20]:
Right. So I have to keep my shit together and show that I care in different ways through action and to protect her from that. And which he accomplishes by actually doing something positive.
Toliy [02:35:30]:
Yeah. Which is maybe when I was asking my mom, you know, oh, so I was trying to have kids, she's like, no, no, no, they're. They're like, it's worth it. Maybe. She, you know, she had me to crack this worrying thing, you know.
Eldar [02:35:46]:
Well, let's hope so. Let's see. Time will tell.
Toliy [02:35:48]:
Yeah.
Eldar [02:35:49]:
Hopefully you can, you know, help your mom rid herself from worrying, you know, by displaying certain things and teaching her that. But good luck. It's a serious nuts. A crack. It's not easy, as Gary said, you know.
Mike [02:36:02]:
Yeah.
Eldar [02:36:02]:
That's not easy. But thank you guys for, you know, sharing your thoughts. This was great. Yeah, Gary, thank you so much.
Mike [02:36:09]:
Thanks.
Eldar [02:36:09]:
Yeah, this was awesome.
36. Worrying as a Love Language: How Emotional Connections Shape Family Interactions
Sep 23, 2022•3 hr 36 min•Ep. 36
Episode description
Is worrying an effective way to show love and care?
In this episode of Dennis Rox, titled "Worrying as a Love Language: How Emotional Connections Shape Family Interactions" hosts Eldar, Mike, and Toliy, along with guest Gary, delve into the complex relationship between worry and expressions of love. They explore how worrying, often seen as an inert yet heartfelt gesture, can tread the fine line between showing genuine concern and unintentionally stifling growth. While Eldar recounts feeling pressured by his family to demonstrate worry as a form of care, Mike challenges this notion, emphasizing his preference for authentic and less intrusive ways of staying connected. The discussion also touches on practical considerations of carrying digital IDs and wallets, shedding light on how convenience and the fear of loss intersect with everyday anxieties.
The group debates whether worry truly helps or merely hinders relationships, scrutinizing its role across various life contexts, from parenting to navigating personal insecurities. Gary's anecdotes about his son Mike and the broader family dynamics highlight how excessive worry can imply doubt in someone's competence, whereas balanced concern can foster better understanding and trust. The hosts consider if less worry and more proactive support, such as helping without hindrance, might lead to stronger, more trusting relationships. As they wrap up, the dialogue encourages listeners to reevaluate their means of expressing love and consider more active forms of care that empower rather than encumber their loved ones.
Transcript
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