33. The Struggle Between Internal Self-Worth and Societal Validation

Dennis [00:00:00]:
On this week's episode.

Eldar [00:00:01]:
And if at any point that enjoyment that you're doing for yourself becomes tied to other individuals opinions of it, then you're doing it wrong.

Tom [00:00:08]:
Oh wow, this guy's making a ham sandwich out of this. How many times have I said that I was going to fulfill something and did not do it?

Toliy [00:00:15]:
What is self worth exactly?

Mike [00:00:17]:
Not really understanding the term.

Toliy [00:00:18]:
It's what you're worth.

Mike [00:00:19]:
Like Elon Musk, Bill Gates.

Toliy [00:00:21]:
Self worth. That's net worth. I enjoy making steaks.

Katherine [00:00:40]:
I don't really know what the question is. Yes, it's just like a general kind of.

Mike [00:00:44]:
We can formulate it.

Katherine [00:00:45]:
But it's something that I've been struggling forever with. And it's like self worth, you know, you know, always doubting myself and you know, I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one that, you know, goes through this. But like, yeah, struggling.

Tom [00:01:00]:
I think that will fit. I think that'll correspond with balance. I think that works together with balance.

Katherine [00:01:06]:
I literally never have a topic. Anytime Elder asks me, I'm like blank.

Mike [00:01:10]:
But like this one I think, oh, so so forth.

Katherine [00:01:13]:
Yeah, but like I don't specifically have a question. It's just something that I'm personally struggling with.

Eldar [00:01:18]:
Well, can you give us like an example of like when you struggle with self worth? Like, you know, like when can you, you feel sometimes or when do you feel sometimes? When you're not enough.

Katherine [00:01:27]:
Almost like for example, with like picking up, let's say, like people are always suggesting for me like, oh, you should really like do interior design for a living. You know, you should really think about it or you know, like you're good at it, like you should do it. And in my mind I'm like, this is just like, this is something that I like to do. It just keeps me busy. But like, I don't think I could do this professionally. Like in my mind, like, I'm not.

Mike [00:01:55]:
Mm.

Katherine [00:01:56]:
I guess like I don't believe that I can do it.

Eldar [00:01:58]:
Yeah. Yeah, I guess, I guess maybe we could tie this to like do it professionally. Right. So maybe then in your mind, do it professionally means like I fear failure. Something where it's like out of the ordinary thing that you might not be able to do because you didn't get the proper schooling, for example.

Katherine [00:02:17]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:02:18]:
Or the proper whatever. Right, right.

Tom [00:02:19]:
We're not gonna do it professionally though. This is what I want some clarification. Why? Yeah, like the salt says I can do it. I. I don't know if I can do it.

Mike [00:02:29]:
Why?

Tom [00:02:29]:
How do you get from I don't know if I can do it to what. Where did you change it into professionally? What do you mean by that sort of shift?

Eldar [00:02:37]:
Yeah.

Tom [00:02:38]:
How do you go from, like, amateur to being professional in a way.

Eldar [00:02:41]:
Why.

Tom [00:02:42]:
Why say that even?

Eldar [00:02:43]:
Why say that?

Tom [00:02:44]:
Yeah, why say, you know, so you sort of. You're. You're sort of modifying what Cat said to. From like, I don't know if I can do it to I don't know if I can do it professionally because that's a higher stage. That's like a more.

Eldar [00:02:59]:
Yeah, yeah, that's what I'm saying. Like, when. When does it go. Become a professional thing? Like.

Toliy [00:03:05]:
Yeah, but I think it's just like my thing in this case, or I think in some of these cases, I think it's also like. Like, if you're doing it for yourself, you could be really good at it, but you don't, like, feel the need to call yourself a professional. Like, why? Right. But then when you do it as a service, right. For others, you can't just be like, hey, I'm not sure how good I am.

Eldar [00:03:28]:
Okay.

Toliy [00:03:28]:
Right. But I'm offering my interior. No, you kind of have to say that you are a professional because, like, that. That's a society's, like, safe word for, like, it's okay to hire you.

Eldar [00:03:37]:
You're in good hands.

Toliy [00:03:38]:
Yes. You can't be like, look, I've never done this for anybody else, and I could be terrible. But you could have all this talent, for example. Right?

Eldar [00:03:46]:
Yeah, but, you know, but with design. Yeah, with design, it's such a thing where it's like, yeah. How do you go from amateur? I really like doing this, and I'm pretty good at this because everybody gives me compliments to.

Toliy [00:03:57]:
Now I'm a professional, I think, in societal terms for some of these things. Like, unless there's like, hard certifications. Right. In societal things, I think it's just like a. Like, like, like, for example, photographer. Like, I don't know, someone could be a really good photographer. Right. And then, like, they.

Toliy [00:04:15]:
When the moment they start offering their services, I guess they kind of have to call themselves a professional.

Eldar [00:04:20]:
Yeah, but.

Tom [00:04:22]:
But I actually use the word amateur pretty seriously because I know that what it means is that I'm sort of working with it. And someone remarked to me once, actually, they were like, oh, it's nice that how you use the word amateur because you actually take it seriously.

Eldar [00:04:42]:
What does that mean, take it seriously? That's.

Tom [00:04:43]:
That's what's interesting. I looked up the word amateur one day.

Eldar [00:04:47]:
Okay. Yeah.

Tom [00:04:47]:
And it says to me it's basically a person who hasn't won any acclaim or hasn't been recognized anyway.

Toliy [00:04:54]:
Yeah, professionals.

Tom [00:04:55]:
But you're also qualifying. You're qualifying what you're saying, you're saying I'm an amateur. So and so, you know, whatever. I'm either a writer or a photographer or whatever. An interior designer. I'm an amateur. So and so.

Toliy [00:05:09]:
But, but you're saying like you haven't hit that, that market.

Tom [00:05:12]:
That's right. That's the point. Because I think I've been working with it long enough to be able to say I'm an amateur as a writer, you know, and I'd say I'm even an amateur as a photographer. And lately actually I've been getting some recognition as like an artist with photography.

Mike [00:05:29]:
From crazy people though. Put that in the thing.

Tom [00:05:31]:
Can we, can we.

Eldar [00:05:34]:
How does the self worth though fall into this, this amateur to professional thing?

Toliy [00:05:38]:
Well, I think the professional thing enhances your self worth.

Eldar [00:05:42]:
Enhanced. Yeah.

Toliy [00:05:43]:
But it's also like.

Mike [00:05:44]:
But it's also you're getting other people to tell you that you are a professional. That's also like.

Toliy [00:05:50]:
Well, is that what you want? You could just call yourself a professional.

Eldar [00:05:53]:
No, but I'm saying.

Mike [00:05:53]:
No, but if you don't believe that and if it's saying you need accredited. You accredited by other people.

Eldar [00:05:58]:
Yes. Then you can never like you're always stuck by like somebody else.

Mike [00:06:03]:
A professional is somebody who has awards and is accredited.

Eldar [00:06:05]:
Yeah.

Toliy [00:06:06]:
Who said that?

Mike [00:06:07]:
Sometimes you said that.

Eldar [00:06:08]:
Yeah. That's what like you didn't get.

Toliy [00:06:09]:
That's a definition of professional.

Tom [00:06:11]:
No, an amateur.

Eldar [00:06:13]:
So.

Mike [00:06:13]:
Oh yeah.

Tom [00:06:14]:
Professional is someone.

Eldar [00:06:15]:
No, no, he said amateur is somebody who did not get any accolades. Did not get a certification. Yeah. Did not get like a piece of paper. Yeah. Diploma.

Toliy [00:06:22]:
Yeah. Professional I guess is like a, like a.

Eldar [00:06:25]:
Who got those things?

Toliy [00:06:26]:
Yes, yes. Someone who, who has those things or someone who's like professional proficient. Right. Someone who's like really good.

Mike [00:06:35]:
I guess. Can you actually say someone is professional or not? Especially in such an open entertain like you cat's doing interior design.

Eldar [00:06:43]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:06:44]:
One person like oh, this is trash. And I'll say this is professional.

Eldar [00:06:46]:
Correct. No, that's what I said.

Mike [00:06:48]:
Open ended thing in design.

Eldar [00:06:49]:
It's so subjective.

Mike [00:06:52]:
Yes, it's very open ended. You can't. So only when people start putting up like oh yo, this new photographer is hot.

Eldar [00:06:58]:
So let's examine your. Where's your self worth? Come in here. Like regarding when people make Those comments to you, like, what makes you feel not enough?

Toliy [00:07:11]:
I think in this case that she's. She's afraid of like the, like the word professional, I think. And she's saying, I mean, maybe she's feeling that like she is not professional, therefore she should not do interior design.

Eldar [00:07:23]:
And therefore she should feel a certain type of way. Yes.

Toliy [00:07:25]:
Yeah. I think that like, she may have an idea of what society would consider an interior. Like, like a professional interior designer. And she may feel that she may not live up to those standards, even though she might. So it's like, I think it's like, it's like a societal thing. Like it's like a society.

Eldar [00:07:42]:
Is self worth always a societal pressure?

Toliy [00:07:47]:
Self worth? Well, yeah, it has to be worth.

Mike [00:07:51]:
If you.

Toliy [00:07:51]:
On the island, we're talking about value here, right? Worth value. Right. Your self. Value. You're comparing it to something. Yeah, comparing it to something.

Eldar [00:07:59]:
If you're on an island and all you do every single day is just harvest coconuts all day.

Toliy [00:08:04]:
Yeah. Like it depends on what the bar is. That that's how it's made.

Eldar [00:08:08]:
Is it possible for you to even think about self worth?

Toliy [00:08:10]:
Yeah. That's also why you can go like, like, I don't know, like the, like.

Mike [00:08:15]:
That's interesting.

Toliy [00:08:16]:
Oh yeah.

Eldar [00:08:17]:
Yeah.

Toliy [00:08:17]:
If you're alone in the island, all.

Eldar [00:08:19]:
You do is fish all day. Nobody's there to judge you. Or you do survive.

Toliy [00:08:23]:
Unless you came from a civilization where like.

Eldar [00:08:25]:
But sooner or later those things have to fall off. Yeah.

Toliy [00:08:28]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:08:29]:
You're no longer like, man, I didn't finish math class.

Toliy [00:08:32]:
Like, yeah, I think it's definitely like a pressure. Like it's, it's from a societal thing.

Tom [00:08:39]:
Like how would you feel if you were sort of alone on an island and you had to do all this stuff? Where does self worth come in?

Eldar [00:08:46]:
It doesn't. I don't think it does really.

Toliy [00:08:49]:
There's no self worth here. If you're in a world alone because you have nothing to what is compared.

Eldar [00:08:55]:
To, let's say, wait, but isn't it.

Mike [00:08:57]:
Worth attached to challenges and growth or. It's not.

Toliy [00:09:01]:
It's attached, I think to a bar that somebody else. Somebody else.

Mike [00:09:07]:
But is there no internal bar?

Katherine [00:09:08]:
Because if you always have and you're never seeing yourself capable of achieving it, then you're keeping yourself from. From doing a lot of things in life or from even attempting to do them because you're afraid that you're.

Mike [00:09:21]:
You're not going to be successful. But how does self worth then work? Like, let's Say here you're talking about self worth in the career. What about self worth in a relationship where you don't have like self worth. Right. Then you don't have self respect. Right?

Eldar [00:09:35]:
Yeah.

Toliy [00:09:36]:
You don't think that you have the amount, the right amount of value here. And the right amount of value is in comparison to another value to another person's. To another person's. Another thing.

Eldar [00:09:46]:
Right.

Mike [00:09:47]:
But is it, does it not exist outside of that? Isn't there actual. No, I think it's actual something that's called self worth. Like a, like a respect. There's a certain gauge here.

Toliy [00:09:59]:
Well, no, it's. It's a value. Right. And either you feel like your, your values high or you feel like your value is low and it's in comparison to what you understand as value, what you bought in.

Eldar [00:10:12]:
Yes. Right. Like somebody sold you to.

Mike [00:10:14]:
For me, it's like universal value.

Tom [00:10:17]:
For me as like a public personality on like a YouTube channel or something like that. My self worth is very low. Yeah. I can't. You've said to me I should start a YouTube channel multiple times and I've said, yeah, yeah, I should.

Eldar [00:10:29]:
Yeah.

Tom [00:10:29]:
But the truth is my self worth is very low. I cannot do it because I don't feel like people find me interesting.

Eldar [00:10:36]:
No, Tom say. See, that's the thing. You don't see certain. You, you don't have the ability to see in that. In that instance what I see. You know what I mean? Yeah.

Toliy [00:10:44]:
He is not good at determining self worth in that.

Eldar [00:10:47]:
Yes, I see your talents and I know that people will buy those talents. Right. They'll chime in into those.

Toliy [00:10:53]:
You're right.

Tom [00:10:54]:
I have no idea.

Eldar [00:10:55]:
But you don't know that.

Tom [00:10:56]:
And I'm not ready to inquire because I feel like my self worth is low. I actually feel like myself.

Eldar [00:11:01]:
You also. No, because you're not your standard. Your standard for movies, for acting and everything else is a lot higher than what I think is standard for a very good, like entertaining person or a good personality, a funny personality. Like you already have that. You know what I mean? But to you, you need to get to a professional level. You know what I mean?

Toliy [00:11:23]:
So probably compare himself with corrupt comedians that he knows.

Eldar [00:11:28]:
Yeah.

Tom [00:11:28]:
But not consciously, to be honest. Not consciously. I just feel like, I guess for me, branching out from this idea that sometimes I'm kind of like what Eldar saying cool or funny or interesting.

Eldar [00:11:41]:
Yeah.

Tom [00:11:42]:
To me is it's, it's, it's broken or it's not good enough actually. So myself, that's exactly what I'm saying. It's not good.

Katherine [00:11:49]:
And I keep going back to that in different areas of my life, especially professionally when it comes to, like, that's.

Eldar [00:11:55]:
What many people don't make it.

Katherine [00:11:56]:
And, and then. And. And my self worth is. Is. I. I always. It always comes back to the same thing. Like, I don't really see myself worth there.

Katherine [00:12:03]:
You know, I mentioned to Hadassah actually recently, she was digging about, like, my. My past with my career and stuff. And I told her I felt like a fish out of water. Like, the first block room that I worked in, you know, no training, just. Just going in there, like, you know, just. Just trying my best, you know.

Eldar [00:12:22]:
Yeah.

Katherine [00:12:23]:
And I moved up. You know, I moved up in positions. And one time I mentioned to her, remember the one attorney, please delete this. Yeah, but do you remember him?

Eldar [00:12:36]:
No, I don't.

Katherine [00:12:36]:
Okay. So he would hang out with us once in a while after work. He was really nice. And then he wanted to go, like, I guess, like, do his own thing in. In Long island and leave the firm.

Eldar [00:12:46]:
Yeah.

Katherine [00:12:47]:
And he had told me you were with me at the time.

Eldar [00:12:49]:
Yeah.

Katherine [00:12:49]:
He's like, catherine, I would want you to be the office manager. I looked at him, and I was like a deer in headlights. Now I realize I'm like, how could he believe that I could do that job? You know? Because I don't believe that I could do that job. So Hadassah is like, look, that is proof that he worked with you, saw something in you, and said, hey, this girl.

Eldar [00:13:11]:
Did he ever compliment you on the way the jeans look on you?

Tom [00:13:14]:
Wait, there's something to be said here. I want to add something here. Something came to mind right away when Cat took. Talked about the emotion.

Eldar [00:13:23]:
No, this is what I'm saying. Yes. It's a very good example.

Toliy [00:13:26]:
Sorry, Tom.

Eldar [00:13:26]:
Is that I see something in Tom. Other people see something. It's the same thing. Right. But what.

Toliy [00:13:31]:
What's worse is, is it, for example, like, in this case, like this. This guy's saying that, like, you should be the office manager, and Cat's saying, like, she doesn't feel that, like she's qualified enough, or is it better for the person who. Who's on the opposite spectrum? Who.

Tom [00:13:49]:
Sorry, I'm thinking.

Toliy [00:13:50]:
So who. Who's, like, not qualified for the position, but thinks that they are and. And does.

Tom [00:13:58]:
Oh, wow, this guy's making a head rush out of this.

Eldar [00:14:01]:
That's a good question.

Toliy [00:14:02]:
Which one is a. A better position or.

Mike [00:14:04]:
I'd.

Eldar [00:14:04]:
I'd probably I'll probably stay with the one who's a little bit more reserved.

Mike [00:14:08]:
Yeah. But never does it, because the.

Eldar [00:14:10]:
Yeah. Yes. Yeah, probably. Yeah.

Tom [00:14:12]:
Here's what I'm thinking and just in terms of creativity, say that person wants to give you the promotion, but your thoughts or your heart is really elsewhere. Let's say Kat was at the time, was thinking really about where her career could be stepping up in another part of her life. And to get. Receive that promotion is also in a way like giving up the other thing that you really wanted to do. And that's kind of something. But this is something that usually happens. So if Cat at the time was thinking, I'm working on this other part of my life, but now here's another pull and something is going to demand my time and so on.

Eldar [00:14:49]:
So give us your example, Tom, if you would like to speak about it.

Tom [00:14:52]:
I'm just saying this is, this is. I just did. No, I just did. I'm saying that there's. I, I read this in a book once. You, you may, you may find that at some point you're looking at leaving, but the counter is that the person who's employing you is going to try to keep you on and in a way still be your boss and give you the sort of the plan that you're going to have to, you're going to have to put in place for your life if you say yes, but when you say no, you have that. You have that opportunity to actually act on the things that you care about.

Eldar [00:15:25]:
Yeah.

Tom [00:15:25]:
And I think this is very relevant for creativity because there are going to be other people who see better things for you. You know, it doesn't matter if they want you to be doing something that's relevant to what you do, as long as you're doing it for them. In a way, you're giving up. Yeah, sometimes. Sometimes it's like that and you say yes because, you know, you know, unwillingly blind in a way.

Eldar [00:15:48]:
Yeah.

Tom [00:15:49]:
And so I think it's. For me. Let's get back to that thing about, you know, for me it's unconscious in a way that I am kind of. How did I put it? But, you know, like, I don't know if I'm. That I don't have the self worth, but I unconsciously think these things.

Eldar [00:16:08]:
Yeah, yeah. But you know, the difference between like a proposition that this guy made to Catherine and for example, to the proposition that we're making to you become a YouTuber.

Mike [00:16:16]:
Right.

Eldar [00:16:16]:
You actually are looking to be in a particular space and do particular Things, Right. Acting, little skits, funny entertainment.

Mike [00:16:25]:
Right.

Eldar [00:16:25]:
So you in there already. So we're not suggesting something out of the left field complete that you didn't think about.

Tom [00:16:30]:
That's the thing. I think I. I don't even think about these things. Things. I don't even actually think about what it is I would think of doing. I just don't have the self worth. I'm not able to actually give it a title.

Eldar [00:16:40]:
No, but you talked, you know, before Tom.

Tom [00:16:42]:
Dude, I'll tell you honestly, I don't remember even one. One thing that I mentioned was like, I can't. I. I may have. I may have.

Eldar [00:16:51]:
Yeah.

Tom [00:16:51]:
The truth is I don't remember one thing. I mean, apart from the little videos that I did with Mike not long ago.

Eldar [00:16:56]:
Yeah, that's what I'm saying.

Tom [00:16:58]:
It was like, I. I can't think of one thing really that I think in that arrange that realm I would be good at. So I can't, like, I can't actually. The thing is I haven't labeled it in my mind, you know, I haven't said so. I have talked about movies and yeah.

Mike [00:17:13]:
Maybe making things interesting. I was just thinking is he's. The way he's looking at it and he needs people to tell him that what we're doing, we're having fun.

Eldar [00:17:23]:
Correct.

Mike [00:17:24]:
And for me, like, we're just having fun.

Eldar [00:17:26]:
Correct.

Mike [00:17:27]:
And if it's recorded, cool.

Eldar [00:17:28]:
Yes.

Mike [00:17:28]:
If I get somewhere cool. But if it doesn't, is it worth something? Because people will watch like, yo, this is funny.

Eldar [00:17:33]:
Yeah, I think so. Yeah. But you really don't know until you try.

Mike [00:17:36]:
But I'm doing it because it's generally fun.

Eldar [00:17:38]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:17:39]:
I'm not looking for people to tell me like, oh, this is actually fun. I'm doing it because I'm having fun.

Eldar [00:17:43]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:17:43]:
I'm laughing and yeah, we're enjoying something from this experience.

Tom [00:17:46]:
I'll tell you after.

Mike [00:17:47]:
So I think that's the big thing where like, if you suffer with this, you're always looking for other people to tell you something you might already like, know. But you don't, you don't consciously like, say like Cat. I think she might think or might know that she's good at it. Yeah, she might be scared to say it to somebody else, but I think she, you know, she, she has good taste. She knows some stuff. Like I don't know anything about interior design. But yeah, when I come to your house and I know that somebody designed.

Eldar [00:18:14]:
This, like, yo, this is serious. Yeah.

Mike [00:18:16]:
You know, like, yeah, I'm not professional, but to my eye, yeah, I see like, yo. As a consumer, I'm like, yo, cat's a person with talent, you know, so, yeah, I guess people forget why they're doing something and how much.

Eldar [00:18:33]:
The question is, how many times does a. Does people and different people have to come into this house, for example, and give Catherine enough compliments for her to. To. To tell herself that? Let's just say, oh, maybe I am something like that.

Toliy [00:18:45]:
There is no.

Eldar [00:18:46]:
There is no number. Right.

Toliy [00:18:47]:
Why do you say.

Eldar [00:18:48]:
I agree there is no.

Toliy [00:18:49]:
Because if, If. If the initial Fear is like the title of, for example, the professional thing, it. It would. It would probably. I mean, the way I think about it, that it would require like, a renowned interior designer who can.

Mike [00:19:08]:
Now that I'm looking around, see.

Tom [00:19:10]:
But based.

Eldar [00:19:11]:
Based on what I'm saying, though, nice little, you know.

Toliy [00:19:14]:
Yeah. I think.

Tom [00:19:15]:
I think based on what I just said, though, that maybe the. The ladder to becoming professional is kind of like. I mean, it's true that it's very difficult to sort of cross that.

Eldar [00:19:26]:
Yeah.

Tom [00:19:27]:
That boundary.

Eldar [00:19:28]:
Whatever.

Tom [00:19:28]:
Whatever it is to cross that. But I think it's also. It's so much deeper because you think that it requires so much persistence and so much consistency that you lack and you have lacked that. It's like impossible to.

Eldar [00:19:43]:
Okay, so that's different. Now you bring it now you. Yeah, consistency is a different thing now. But also. Yeah, yeah, I think that's a different thing.

Toliy [00:19:51]:
No, I was saying that. To me, it doesn't matter how many, I guess normal people or people who don't know about that, like, are not like.

Tom [00:20:00]:
Yeah.

Toliy [00:20:00]:
I think it would take one person who's like a renowned interior designer to be like, yo, who designed this? And that person has talent. That person has to do this. I think that would, in this kind of fear switch the. Really well, yes, really well. Yeah, because it's like this. Like, I'm guessing that she's probably thinking that, like, she. She may not be good enough to do this. And I don't think that she esteems people who don't know what it takes to be good enough.

Toliy [00:20:27]:
Their opinion on whether, like, she should do this, like, whether, like, I don't know if that encourages her.

Eldar [00:20:33]:
Okay. What I think is. Yeah, no, what I think what she can do is not that she can't reproduce that, what she did here. You understand? Yeah. The variable is there, how fast it needs to be reproduced. Right. Who are you working with? Who you're dealing with, those variables. Well, that the variables that are Actually scary.

Eldar [00:20:51]:
The outside variables.

Toliy [00:20:53]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:20:53]:
Doing it to your own home is one thing. And your own time.

Toliy [00:20:57]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:20:57]:
With your husband who's understanding it and accepting is one thing. Yeah. Doing it to an actual client who's like, hey, where's my stuff? I'd like to see this done. This done. This done. Where's my stuff? That's the stuff. I think that when she watches at least her shows and she sees all the interior designers, they have a quality that is a go getter quality. Right.

Eldar [00:21:16]:
Who's gonna get shit done, who works great under pressure, who is a buzzer.

Toliy [00:21:20]:
So then I don't think it's a self worth problem.

Eldar [00:21:22]:
Then that's.

Tom [00:21:23]:
That, that's separate. You know the opinion of how well the interior designer functions is separate. I think the idea is that, I.

Toliy [00:21:31]:
Don'T think that that's a self worth problem.

Eldar [00:21:33]:
Okay. Baby, you don't think it's a software.

Tom [00:21:35]:
We started at how, how many compliments you would have to receive in order to become a better interior designer.

Mike [00:21:42]:
See, I think the, the thing that I just was thinking about is that can somebody tell you that when you're doing interior design stuff that you're not having fun?

Tom [00:21:53]:
Can someone tell you that like if.

Mike [00:21:54]:
You, if you're doing something.

Eldar [00:21:56]:
Yes.

Mike [00:21:57]:
And you're having fun.

Eldar [00:21:58]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:21:58]:
Can somebody take that away from you?

Eldar [00:21:59]:
They cannot. You're right, they cannot. And if you're having fun and the way you, you enjoying it, it will naturally come out the right way.

Toliy [00:22:08]:
But. But it's also like depending on in what scenario, like that's. It may be fun on your own time and doing it like for yourself.

Tom [00:22:15]:
Or.

Toliy [00:22:16]:
But if you're.

Mike [00:22:17]:
But, but if you say like, you know what, I'm gonna do interior design, but I'm gonna be like, but I'll.

Eldar [00:22:22]:
Never show it to anybody.

Mike [00:22:23]:
No, but like there's those artists. Right.

Eldar [00:22:26]:
100 possible.

Mike [00:22:27]:
There's like certain artists who are awkward. Right. And they, yeah. Some people say they're acting like, but they try to make themselves like special. Like, yeah, oh, I don't do this, but now I do it. I have my own thing.

Eldar [00:22:36]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:22:37]:
Like Tommy, he's like, no, no, my is unique.

Eldar [00:22:40]:
Guys.

Tom [00:22:41]:
What you're saying is not really an artist. So what you're saying is somebody who's like a fraud.

Mike [00:22:45]:
Yes. Yes.

Eldar [00:22:46]:
Is that fair?

Tom [00:22:47]:
Can we say fraud?

Mike [00:22:48]:
It might to us observing that people might be frauds. But if Cat is like saying like, hey, actually I like, I'll do your interior design, but it might take a year.

Eldar [00:22:57]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:22:58]:
Because this is the way I work. I only work when I'm having fun. If you want a good result, I'm gonna. I'm gonna have to do it this way. If you don't want to. Okay. Buzz off.

Eldar [00:23:05]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:23:06]:
Because if you actually focus on the having fun.

Eldar [00:23:08]:
Yes.

Mike [00:23:09]:
The outcome will be good.

Eldar [00:23:10]:
Yes.

Mike [00:23:10]:
People will enjoy it.

Eldar [00:23:11]:
Yes.

Mike [00:23:11]:
And that will build your confidence, because nobody can take away that you're having fun doing this.

Eldar [00:23:16]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:23:16]:
Except you.

Eldar [00:23:17]:
And that was bringing back to, like, when we. When I started the podcast thing. Right. This is a new.

Mike [00:23:22]:
New.

Eldar [00:23:22]:
Like, it's not a recent phenomenon. Right. Recording, but it's. It's more so new. Right. But we've been doing it for a while now. Right?

Mike [00:23:29]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:23:30]:
But when I first started doing it, I also thought this. This thing, I was like, in my head, I was like, like, why would people listen to whatever. Whatever. And then I asked myself the question, like, who gives a fuck?

Mike [00:23:41]:
Yeah. You doing your own here.

Eldar [00:23:46]:
Nobody can tell you otherwise.

Mike [00:23:47]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:23:48]:
If something comes out of it, great. If nothing comes out of it.

Tom [00:23:51]:
So what?

Mike [00:23:52]:
But the thing is, I think when you genuinely having fun.

Eldar [00:23:55]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:23:55]:
A lot of good comes out because you're doing it for a genuine purpose.

Eldar [00:23:59]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:23:59]:
You know, so that's how I felt.

Eldar [00:24:01]:
As well with this whole thing, because in the beginning, I was asking myself, like, I was like, put myself out there. I was like, you know, I mean, I had to go through that little process, and I was like. And I kind of just launched. I just launched without any, you know, professional accreditation or whatever you want to call it. Right? Yeah. Practicing my voice skills or practicing how to record it and stuff like that.

Tom [00:24:24]:
Yes.

Eldar [00:24:24]:
And slowly it's going to a place where it's like, hey, this is pretty official. Like, we're doing this officially, where we have a guy who takes care of us, sets it all up.

Mike [00:24:32]:
Sound effects, sound effects, records.

Eldar [00:24:34]:
It makes it more. Makes it professional. Yeah. And what are we doing? We're still having fun. So. And I still. And I'm still convinced that somebody from outside who looked in and listened to this stuff.

Mike [00:24:49]:
Right.

Eldar [00:24:49]:
The final result, say, yo, this was professionally done, and these guys know what they're doing.

Mike [00:24:53]:
Yeah, right.

Toliy [00:24:56]:
Yeah, but, like. Yeah, but. Yeah, but that. That. That algorithm has to, like, be a switch.

Eldar [00:25:01]:
Yes. Yeah, it has to switch.

Mike [00:25:02]:
No, but you have to.

Eldar [00:25:03]:
Each individual has to have that conversation with themselves.

Toliy [00:25:05]:
Yeah, well, that. That. That's how you have to all also define, like, professional.

Eldar [00:25:11]:
Yeah, like.

Toliy [00:25:12]:
Like the.

Mike [00:25:12]:
The.

Toliy [00:25:13]:
The professional tagline is your understanding of it and you doing it. You Feel like you need to live up or do it, do it a certain way.

Eldar [00:25:20]:
Correct. So see the difference between being a professional electrician because you need to know how the wires work, right. How electricity conducts from one wire to another. Right? Yeah. You know what I mean? You cannot connect this wire to this wire and it's gonna, you're gonna cause a fire. Right. You have to be a professional wire, I mean, electrician, to know electricity.

Mike [00:25:39]:
Right.

Eldar [00:25:40]:
That's. You have to go to school. You have to understand that this is not a, a subjective experience. You're gonna have this. What we're having here is a form of art which is subject. Yes.

Mike [00:25:50]:
So.

Toliy [00:25:50]:
So can you not be a professional at a subjective thing?

Eldar [00:25:54]:
Yeah, that's very difficult to do, I think.

Tom [00:25:56]:
Wow.

Toliy [00:25:57]:
That's only like a label that someone could throw at you.

Eldar [00:26:00]:
Yeah, right. Yes. Yeah. Based on what?

Mike [00:26:03]:
Yeah, like.

Eldar [00:26:03]:
Based on what?

Toliy [00:26:04]:
Yeah, like for example, you could be a professional at making steaks, but there's people who like well done with ketchup.

Eldar [00:26:09]:
What I'm saying is that talking here about topics, Right. Talking here about topics of whatever topics we want and wherever the conversation goes, it's subjective. Who's going to tell us, where is it going to go, how it's going to go, what's good, what's not. However, now the sound people, right. When they hear the sound, right. And there's a level, there's a standard, there's no like static. What other problems there are, you know, I don't know, background noise and stuff like that. Right.

Eldar [00:26:36]:
Now, professionals who are engineering sound, they understand that there's level standards to this. Right. So when they listen to sound, that's maybe more or less objective rather than something.

Toliy [00:26:46]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:26:47]:
But even then it's a little, I think it's wishy washy as well. Yeah. On some things. You know what I mean? Generally we people can tell the difference between them.

Tom [00:26:55]:
I wouldn't say it's entirely, entirely subjective because some art can be based, you know, some, sometimes even the design, the sound is an objective and it's an art at the same time.

Eldar [00:27:09]:
Yeah.

Tom [00:27:09]:
You know, so I think art can be both.

Eldar [00:27:11]:
Yeah.

Tom [00:27:12]:
It has to be. Because when you use perspective in an, in a, in a painting, for example.

Eldar [00:27:17]:
Yeah.

Tom [00:27:17]:
You know, you're using science, you're using objective experience.

Eldar [00:27:20]:
Yeah, yeah. This is true. And I think like in these types of things, nobody can really tell you.

Toliy [00:27:25]:
Nobody can ever tell. In the subjective world, you're not professional.

Tom [00:27:28]:
Yeah.

Toliy [00:27:29]:
In the subjective world, I guess will be considered professional or not. Would only Be like, what the people think about it.

Eldar [00:27:37]:
Exactly. The masses, the general public. But then again, right, Art is such a thing where you have million people go through that museum and look at that painting and, like, this is trash.

Mike [00:27:48]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:27:48]:
You know what I mean? Like, what is this? Right? And then you have thousand years pass by, thousand years pass by, and then somebody saw something and they said, this is a masterpiece. And now next generation, you know, of 100, you know, years of people visiting that same thing, they're like, this is incredible.

Tom [00:28:06]:
But question.

Eldar [00:28:06]:
What?

Tom [00:28:07]:
Was the artist happy when they made it?

Eldar [00:28:09]:
I would say yes.

Toliy [00:28:11]:
Even.

Katherine [00:28:11]:
Even if.

Tom [00:28:13]:
Even if for a thousand years that painting wasn't recognized, I think the artist still made it in mind within mind that they're doing what they love and they're doing what's important to them.

Eldar [00:28:25]:
Yeah, but doing something. Doing something and being happy doing it is not. It's not the same as being happy and doing it.

Toliy [00:28:32]:
Right.

Tom [00:28:33]:
I. Dude. I would say it's a very fine line, especially when it comes to this subjective kind of point of view about art. You have to love it. I mean, even sometimes when it's hard.

Eldar [00:28:43]:
Yeah.

Tom [00:28:44]:
Yeah. I think you have to actually, you know, believe that you're doing something for the good of, you know, putting it out there or doing something for the good of your, you know, your inner sense of creativity. Because you're exploring. You're, you know, you're. You know, you. Whatever it is.

Eldar [00:29:01]:
Yeah.

Toliy [00:29:02]:
So you're saying that it's the only thing you know. Yeah. So you're saying that if you have a successful artist who is, like, you know, recognized by the masses, that's like.

Eldar [00:29:10]:
You know, I don't know.

Toliy [00:29:11]:
Unbelievable, right? You're saying then. Then based on what Tom is saying, if you take that guy and you capture him and you make him slave away and do it, he won't. Will he not be able to create good art?

Eldar [00:29:22]:
Correct. Yeah, correct. This is exactly what he's saying.

Mike [00:29:26]:
That's his.

Tom [00:29:27]:
There's an episode of.

Eldar [00:29:29]:
But then it's subjective. You can never. You can never label that as. How can you ever measure that?

Toliy [00:29:34]:
I guess to the standard that he was producing before he was captured.

Eldar [00:29:37]:
You know what I'm saying? I mean, I think he can replicate.

Mike [00:29:40]:
The picture, but can you.

Toliy [00:29:42]:
Can he make new ones that are on that level, is what I'm saying?

Mike [00:29:47]:
Tom is saying. No.

Toliy [00:29:48]:
Or can you make. Can you make an art hoax? Like.

Eldar [00:29:52]:
Yeah.

Toliy [00:29:52]:
Can you draw something that's a complete piece of.

Eldar [00:29:55]:
Yeah.

Toliy [00:29:56]:
Organize it? I mean.

Mike [00:29:57]:
Yeah. 100.

Eldar [00:29:58]:
Yes.

Toliy [00:29:58]:
Guy. He knows what he's talking about. And then someone else will say like.

Mike [00:30:03]:
Oh, I see it too.

Toliy [00:30:04]:
You know, while you don't see.

Mike [00:30:06]:
Yeah. A lot of the stuff is. I feel like it's also.

Eldar [00:30:09]:
It is. It is.

Toliy [00:30:11]:
You know.

Eldar [00:30:11]:
Yeah, it is. So I think.

Tom [00:30:14]:
But art is at the end of the day, really so totally.

Toliy [00:30:17]:
Art can't be wrong.

Tom [00:30:18]:
It's an expression. Something that you believe and see as an artist.

Toliy [00:30:22]:
Then there's no such as a professional and subjective things.

Eldar [00:30:25]:
Right.

Tom [00:30:25]:
I. I would say there's a. There's a. Probably a good.

Toliy [00:30:28]:
No, but, but wait. For example, in interior design. Right?

Eldar [00:30:31]:
Yeah.

Toliy [00:30:32]:
There's different, like there's like, like modern contemporary.

Eldar [00:30:35]:
Right.

Toliy [00:30:35]:
Like all these different styles. And if someone says, I want this.

Eldar [00:30:38]:
Style, which is a. Oh, no. Agree. And if you come and make something.

Toliy [00:30:41]:
Else, you can't put like a. A. Yeah. You can't just put like a water.

Eldar [00:30:45]:
A water. Water bed into.

Toliy [00:30:46]:
You have like an actual.

Eldar [00:30:48]:
Understand.

Katherine [00:30:48]:
Understanding.

Eldar [00:30:49]:
What about into a traditional. You know, you do.

Katherine [00:30:52]:
That's why. That's why the training and the certification is necessary.

Mike [00:30:56]:
So there is some professionalism there, which is in knowing what the different styles.

Katherine [00:31:03]:
Mid, like mid century modern. Like I'm a fish out of water. I'm like, okay, I don't know.

Eldar [00:31:09]:
Yeah.

Toliy [00:31:09]:
So. So what style is.

Eldar [00:31:11]:
Is this a particular style? Yes.

Katherine [00:31:13]:
This is kind of a mishmash of a couple of things like that technically is mish century modern. That got this.

Eldar [00:31:19]:
That's boho.

Katherine [00:31:20]:
That's ratan. Which is boho. I did not choose this couch.

Toliy [00:31:25]:
I told you that couch.

Eldar [00:31:26]:
But it's mad nice, as you can see. It's comfortable and it looks mad good as well. With those pink pillows.

Katherine [00:31:32]:
These chairs, these that you guys are sitting on. Those were.

Eldar [00:31:37]:
My mom.

Toliy [00:31:38]:
But these to me match the style that.

Eldar [00:31:40]:
Boom.

Katherine [00:31:41]:
They do. They just. That was just.

Mike [00:31:42]:
And this tool.

Eldar [00:31:43]:
Yeah. And not too. See you on the. This is also boho. Yes. It's a vin.

Toliy [00:31:48]:
Not really.

Eldar [00:31:48]:
Yes.

Katherine [00:31:49]:
But like woods.

Eldar [00:31:50]:
You can argue.

Mike [00:31:51]:
You can argue sandalwood type.

Tom [00:31:54]:
I have to say I was. I was looking on Airbnb the other day yesterday. Sorry. And this is the weirdest.

Mike [00:32:00]:
Dennis wants to know.

Tom [00:32:02]:
In the comments, this one person said I was going to stay an extra day just to sit in this particular chair. There was the most comfortable chair they ever sat in.

Mike [00:32:14]:
Send me the location. I'm trying to buy that chair. Yeah.

Tom [00:32:18]:
I was shocked.

Eldar [00:32:19]:
Yeah. Yeah. So what do you see? What do you get? Self worth. Totally was asking. There's no such thing as self Worth in the. In interior design.

Toliy [00:32:29]:
I think it might be, for example, a fear that, like, you may not have the. Well, I want your judge. Or, like, the inability to deal with those. For example, be like, yo, Kat. Like, yeah.

Eldar [00:32:40]:
Yes.

Mike [00:32:43]:
I think the self worth comes into play here when you're lying to yourself about what's actually happening. Okay. Like, she could maybe. She could be saying, like, yo, I'm actually having fun doing interior design. But if you get to the core of it, she's not having fun because she's stressed out. Got deadlines, is out of stock. It's delayed.

Eldar [00:33:02]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:33:06]:
You know, think about somebody else.

Tom [00:33:09]:
Like, I'm. It makes me anxious. You know, I get afraid.

Mike [00:33:13]:
See, how many times.

Tom [00:33:15]:
How many times have I said that I was gonna fulfill something and haven't and did not do it?

Mike [00:33:20]:
All the time.

Eldar [00:33:21]:
All the time, Tom. Yeah. So you don't actually enjoy.

Tom [00:33:24]:
Especially with the creative stuff, remember?

Eldar [00:33:27]:
Okay, so wait a second. So that could be the measure. Mike is onto something here.

Tom [00:33:32]:
The what?

Toliy [00:33:33]:
What could be the measure.

Eldar [00:33:34]:
The measure of you actually enjoying the thing that you're doing. Actually enjoying it. Not lying to yourself.

Toliy [00:33:41]:
Okay.

Eldar [00:33:41]:
Because Kat likes doing it, but then she likes doing it because in the process, she's stressing out on my terms. Your terms. You have not proved them to me at least that you.

Katherine [00:33:52]:
Yeah, but, like, you do. You know what I mean? Like, there's certain things that if I'm stressed out, I don't want to deal with it. You know, like, when you're done, your dad is like, he wants to do stuff at this point, we're done with the kitchen.

Eldar [00:34:03]:
Yeah.

Katherine [00:34:04]:
We're giving him little small things that needed maybe, to be fair, but he's, like, approaching me, like, all right, so what's next? What's next? And I'm like. I'm like, my. My mind is closed. Like, shop is closed. I don't want anything. You guys are talking about this. I don't even want to deal with it. Like, I don't want it.

Eldar [00:34:21]:
Yeah.

Toliy [00:34:21]:
It sounds like she might have plenty.

Eldar [00:34:22]:
Of reasons that's why she doesn't want.

Toliy [00:34:23]:
To be an interior designer officially, like, done.

Katherine [00:34:28]:
There might be, like, small things here and there.

Eldar [00:34:32]:
Yeah. No, you were right. You were right. It's honesty with yourself worth if you're not honest with yourself. Yes.

Mike [00:34:41]:
But it happens in a very subconscious level.

Eldar [00:34:44]:
You're right.

Katherine [00:34:45]:
You guys have to dissect that more.

Eldar [00:34:47]:
Explain it. Yeah. And then explain it doesn't happen. Yeah. I'm good.

Katherine [00:34:55]:
Thank you.

Tom [00:34:57]:
So I would say if you're stuck on an island. There is a way to find self worth. I think self worth is really just. You're worthy to yourself. So it's not exactly something that you trade off.

Eldar [00:35:10]:
It's not yourself right away.

Tom [00:35:13]:
I would say, even if I'm like the greatest photographer, right. I know that today on Wednesday or whatever day of the week it is, or today's Friday. So let's just say Friday. I, if I. There are two potential clients, one from Prada and the other one from Moonlight Limousine. Right. I can only put. And, and those people are only available at that time on that day or else they're going somewhere else.

Tom [00:35:39]:
There's a trade off. I'm going to go with one client and essentially it's going to be, you know, like a thing, you know, it's like, it's gonna be like an adventure. What I'm, what I'm getting at is that I think, I think that like there's a way to, to find self worth.

Eldar [00:36:00]:
Yeah.

Tom [00:36:00]:
But. Oh, what I was saying, here's the thing, My idea is this, is that once I gain that client, I'm, I'm sort of earning. I've earned business and it's something to be proud of. It's a success. I've found success. Doesn't matter who the client is. I found success. So in terms of self worth success, you haven't.

Tom [00:36:20]:
Even if I'm self worth all the.

Eldar [00:36:22]:
Way up here, you trick somebody, Tom, you know.

Tom [00:36:25]:
No, no, no. What I'm saying is even if self worth flies me up to like the top client, whoever that top client happens to be, I still think that that self worth is not going to, not necessarily going to earn me my next best client, you know, it's not gonna, it's not necessarily gonna be the reason why I, I succeed, I continue to succeed. You feel me? Because I don't. This may be the.

Eldar [00:36:57]:
This may be.

Tom [00:36:58]:
The first and the last client. You see what I'm saying? Guys, hear me out. This may be my first and my last. Last big client. You never know. That's what this is, what I mean. So I think like, even if you're sort of, even if you can find self worth, but what value does it have? What value does that self worth have in terms of, I guess like continuing. Continuing it does.

Tom [00:37:24]:
But you have to define it. You have to like define what your self worth means for your next step, let's say.

Eldar [00:37:32]:
Yeah. Yes.

Tom [00:37:34]:
So you could be a great shoemaker, but if you're not making shoes, what self worth value does it have, you know.

Eldar [00:37:40]:
No. Good point. You have to identify to yourself where your self worth lies.

Tom [00:37:45]:
Right. Where does your self worth lie? Right.

Eldar [00:37:48]:
Especially when it comes to like these types of subjective experiences that you're getting yourself into.

Toliy [00:37:55]:
Right.

Tom [00:37:55]:
And that's the correct. That's the point. Yeah. Because maybe, maybe. Yeah, maybe it does help me move a little bit. The thing is, it is a sort of self relationship.

Eldar [00:38:06]:
Yeah.

Tom [00:38:08]:
The better you do at it, I guess the more you do at it, the better you do at it, let's say.

Eldar [00:38:12]:
Yeah.

Toliy [00:38:13]:
So if, if you age, if, if you, let's say you are actually good at something, right. And you don't believe. So is that low self worth?

Tom [00:38:27]:
Are you talking about Dennis right now?

Eldar [00:38:28]:
If you actually are good at something but you don't believe it, you have reasons? No. Then yeah, yeah, yeah. You have reasons as to why you don't believe it, right?

Toliy [00:38:37]:
Well, no, for example, like, like, could this be compared to like the Socrates thing where like he actually knows a lot, but he says that he knows nothing. It doesn't mean that he has low self worth. Right. And he.

Eldar [00:38:49]:
No, I think the reason Socrates was.

Toliy [00:38:51]:
Yeah, the margin of error.

Eldar [00:38:53]:
No, I think Socrates did that on purpose because he didn't want to miss something.

Toliy [00:38:57]:
That's what I'm saying.

Eldar [00:38:58]:
He just wanted to find out, get to the bottom of it.

Toliy [00:39:00]:
Okay, so, but if you are actually.

Mike [00:39:02]:
Good at something, but taking that stance of not saying, you know, anything is actually displaying self worth.

Eldar [00:39:09]:
Yes.

Toliy [00:39:10]:
Yeah, so that's what I'm saying though. So if you are actually good at.

Eldar [00:39:14]:
Something, you would never say it out loud.

Toliy [00:39:18]:
Is, is that true?

Eldar [00:39:20]:
It should be. I think, and I think, you know, it's like the fighters or really top level athletes, when they ask them like, hey, you realize that you like the pound for pound king you the best of the best. And a lot of them go, I'm not sure that's up to you guys to decide.

Toliy [00:39:37]:
But are they, are they just. I mean, I guess my, my questions are like, do they actually believe that.

Eldar [00:39:43]:
Or they just say that? Because, because I think that they themselves, themselves know that there are flaws in their game or whatever it is that they know they can still improve upon, however, that what they're putting out might be good enough for the majority of the masses.

Tom [00:39:58]:
Maybe, maybe it's more than just flaws too.

Eldar [00:40:01]:
Right? Like, because like, it's like, it's almost like you close the chapter. Everybody says, yeah, you're, you're the greatest. And you like, yeah, I am the greatest. It's Almost like, then, okay, so now I have to go to practice anymore. I don't.

Mike [00:40:11]:
Dead.

Eldar [00:40:12]:
It's kind of dead.

Mike [00:40:12]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:40:13]:
It's almost like the final chapter and it's. It's done. But if you constantly feel like, hey, no, I. There's. I'm gonna improve. Because you actually believe that there's room to improve.

Tom [00:40:22]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:40:22]:
Which is. In which art can you not improve? Can you, you know, which.

Toliy [00:40:28]:
Which sport?

Eldar [00:40:28]:
Which.

Toliy [00:40:29]:
Yeah, but can you just be good at something but still be on the path of. Of like.

Mike [00:40:34]:
Of.

Eldar [00:40:36]:
Of improving? Yeah, of course.

Tom [00:40:40]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:40:41]:
That's the ideal, I would say, just.

Tom [00:40:43]:
Sort of, especially in art, because art is not necessarily all performance, because the expression of art is also about growth. It is also about your growth. That's what kind of art is.

Toliy [00:40:53]:
But can you feel that you are good at it? Is that fine? But know that you. You are still aspiring to be, like, better.

Eldar [00:41:01]:
I'm not sure if it's going to help you, though. You know what I'm saying?

Toliy [00:41:04]:
But sure, because, like, somebody else, right?

Eldar [00:41:08]:
Somebody else.

Tom [00:41:09]:
What did he ask?

Toliy [00:41:11]:
Like, if you are good at something, you actually are, but you know that, like, you could be better, and you're still aspiring to be better, is it okay to label yourself as good? Like, why? Why?

Eldar [00:41:22]:
Why?

Toliy [00:41:22]:
I'm asking that because I could see that, like.

Tom [00:41:24]:
Yeah.

Toliy [00:41:24]:
If you don't put that label potentially on, then you'll be the person who. Then, like, you could be the person with like, like, the talent, but then lack the confidence to actually, like.

Eldar [00:41:38]:
Well, there you go. There you go.

Toliy [00:41:41]:
Or if you don't have that, like, consistency.

Mike [00:41:43]:
Right.

Eldar [00:41:44]:
Tom can and do a skit to us right now, and it's gonna be funny as hell, and we would love it. And I'm pretty sure if we taped it, put it out in the world, people also would love it. But can Tom do it every week? Can Tom carry that type of energy every single week? Can he be consistent? Yeah, that's proven. We don't know yet. Yeah. Like, for example, like, just like Catherine, she created this house, but can she create a second house? We don't know.

Toliy [00:42:06]:
Yeah, yeah. Like, I. I like, like, for example, like, I enjoy making steaks. And you guys have said. Yes, you guys have said a number of times. Yeah, you like them too, correct? Right?

Eldar [00:42:19]:
Yeah.

Toliy [00:42:19]:
That you like them too, right?

Eldar [00:42:20]:
Yeah.

Toliy [00:42:21]:
So, like, over. Over time, because you guys have praised me for it.

Eldar [00:42:25]:
Yeah.

Toliy [00:42:26]:
I. I felt like.

Eldar [00:42:27]:
I felt.

Toliy [00:42:28]:
I feel internally that I am good at it.

Eldar [00:42:30]:
Yeah.

Toliy [00:42:30]:
But I also know that, like, I would want it Like. Like, there. There are levels that.

Mike [00:42:36]:
Correct. So then you also know, like, yeah, if.

Toliy [00:42:39]:
If I didn't feel that I was good at it and I was in a different environment, someone's like, yo, can you make the steaks? Like, I may not be like, sure. Be like, I, like. Like, right now I could be like, yeah, I could take care of them.

Eldar [00:42:50]:
Check this out. No, no, no. See, the thing is, I'm not sure if it translates to the. To the outside world, this particular thing, especially when it comes to taste. Right. Taste is, again, one of those things. Right. We can say confidently now.

Eldar [00:43:01]:
We can say in our friends group, based on the States that we've tried outside in the restaurant and based on what we can cook. You're good. Your stakes are good.

Toliy [00:43:11]:
Yeah, but I can also.

Eldar [00:43:12]:
But now let's bring Gordon Ramsay into the. Into this house. Right? Whatever.

Mike [00:43:18]:
Whatever.

Eldar [00:43:18]:
Whatever he does. You know how he does it, right?

Toliy [00:43:20]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:43:20]:
He's gonna try your steaks and say, totally the depth of this. This. This case lacks.

Mike [00:43:25]:
Yeah.

Toliy [00:43:25]:
And. And it's funny.

Eldar [00:43:26]:
And then you're gonna show.

Toliy [00:43:27]:
I'm not sure where he does. Like, he's going to a place and. And, like, he's saying, like, you know, he's asking, like, the waiter, the waitress.

Eldar [00:43:34]:
Yeah.

Toliy [00:43:35]:
Like, yeah, like, what? What. What's popular? Someone be like. And, like, the owner could come out and be like, this is our famous this. And, like, everybody loves this. And you'll be like, this is lacking.

Eldar [00:43:44]:
Exactly. See, there you go. However, no, no, no, no, no, no. I think that, for example, your steak skills, based on me being as a consumer going out there and whatever, you can run your own restaurant and be successful at selling that. Yeah. That taste is good enough because there's plenty of people.

Toliy [00:44:04]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:44:04]:
See that we're not in. We're not on the island where it's only me and Gordon Ramsay and you also.

Toliy [00:44:10]:
I in. In this kind of stuff. Like, I would be okay if I go to another environment and people be like, no, we. We like ours, like, super well done with ketchup, right?

Eldar [00:44:18]:
Yes.

Toliy [00:44:19]:
Like, I would, like, I wouldn't, like, I wouldn't be upset if, like, they were. Everyone's like, yo, these things are terrible. Because I would automatically, like, be like, yo, you don't know what they're talking about.

Eldar [00:44:29]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Mike [00:44:30]:
But then we could.

Eldar [00:44:31]:
But then that's because we could be under the wrong impression, too. No, but it's just.

Toliy [00:44:35]:
I mean, it's up to me whether I want to. Where I want to put your opinions.

Eldar [00:44:40]:
There you go because of the relationship that you have with them.

Toliy [00:44:43]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I also know that, like, if I was not labeling myself as like, good at some. At something like that, the good title.

Eldar [00:44:52]:
You didn't get because you got it, you got it from us.

Tom [00:44:54]:
Who is not on zone when t is talking about labeling your talent. I think that everything you said, Eldar, concerning about how your friends like your steaks and think that, you know, you're on par and people would eat that steak, that should be included in that label because it's about that honesty and sort of, sort of gauging your own interest in the thing and being able to like weigh how good you are. That's part of the self worth. My friends like my steaks and they think that other people would like my steaks. And that's where you begin in a way.

Eldar [00:45:29]:
So his steak in general, his ability to cook steak, cook steak is high in our friends group zone. And he goes to Kentucky where they like it with ketchup and he serves it with lemon. They're gonna say, this guy's an idiot. So his self worth in that thing.

Toliy [00:45:47]:
Making stakes for me, it depends on the situation. But yeah, I don't like making it. Yeah, I definitely don't feel as comfortable. I don't like making what I have to make a shit ton of them. So the question, there's like a focus group.

Eldar [00:45:59]:
Yeah.

Toliy [00:46:00]:
Because I also have not.

Tom [00:46:01]:
So it's particular. How much further do you need to go and basically how much to do it more basically, how would you, how would you get to that level of self worth? Where do you begin from there? Of, like, I know I can surf my friends, but today I'm gonna do it.

Toliy [00:46:16]:
I don't view that as like a self worth problem. Why does it have to be like a self worth problem?

Tom [00:46:21]:
Okay, so this is. Why does it have to be like that? Because if you consider yourself good at this and you, you take the advice that your friends give you and they tell you that you make good steaks and people would eat it, well, then maybe your self worth isn't high enough to serve for the extra group that comes tomorrow.

Toliy [00:46:38]:
But that, but that would mean whatever. But that would mean to me that I have the desire to do that.

Tom [00:46:43]:
Exactly. And I think it separates what your interest is and what you really.

Toliy [00:46:48]:
If I don't have the desire to do that, then I wouldn't have a self worth.

Tom [00:46:51]:
Maybe, maybe I don't know if it leads towards being professional, but say it's.

Mike [00:46:56]:
You know, say yeah, his ability to.

Eldar [00:46:59]:
Make good stakes should not be tied to his self worth at all.

Mike [00:47:02]:
Yeah, that's what I was gonna say. I. I don't think you can actually tie subjective things.

Eldar [00:47:06]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:47:06]:
And self worth because that's a complete violation.

Tom [00:47:09]:
Become an artist.

Eldar [00:47:10]:
What people do.

Mike [00:47:11]:
No, I agree. That's the challenge. I think that self worth is more rooted in something else and it has nothing to do with other people's opinions.

Eldar [00:47:20]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:47:21]:
But the problem that happens is we hear somebody's opinion and we internalize it and it makes us feel good. But all. For all the wrong reasons.

Toliy [00:47:30]:
I don't think it's bad for all the wrong reasons.

Katherine [00:47:32]:
Internal opinions. It's your own opinion of yourself. Yourself of your.

Toliy [00:47:37]:
Based on the external. Right.

Eldar [00:47:38]:
But based. But what is it based on?

Mike [00:47:40]:
Based on what other people are going to say, potentially think or say about you in the future.

Eldar [00:47:44]:
Yes.

Mike [00:47:44]:
So the violation is that you actually care what other people. Reputation.

Eldar [00:47:50]:
Yeah.

Toliy [00:47:51]:
In a world with nobody else. Self worth only exists in a world with others.

Katherine [00:47:55]:
Yeah. Especially when. When it's like a service that you would provide where people's review or opinion actually counts.

Toliy [00:48:02]:
Like, oh, this designer is trash or could affect you.

Eldar [00:48:06]:
It could affect your reputation. Yeah.

Tom [00:48:09]:
For you it really has nothing to do about the extra. Who they are, the people who come and who they are, but more of how you just don't like managing the bigger amount of. Yeah.

Eldar [00:48:19]:
If you're engaging in subjective things.

Toliy [00:48:21]:
Mike.

Eldar [00:48:22]:
Yeah. You should not be attaching self worth to any of it because you're only undercutting yourself.

Mike [00:48:27]:
Yeah. But it shows the actual flow in your character. Wait, wait.

Toliy [00:48:31]:
But that interior design, it based on these different styles. Like that it is not subjective.

Eldar [00:48:37]:
Correct.

Toliy [00:48:39]:
It's only subjective if you're not educated on it. Right.

Eldar [00:48:41]:
The thing is, who created the designs? Somebody. Yes, people.

Toliy [00:48:45]:
But there is a design. So there is a rubric.

Eldar [00:48:48]:
Not if, not necessarily. You have to go off of. She said this is boho and this is modern.

Toliy [00:48:52]:
No, I know, but if. So then, but if you're offering it as a.

Eldar [00:48:55]:
So she's doing a hybrid. This is Catherine hybrid. And we're going to call this. You know what I mean? Like, okay, so then, you know what I'm saying?

Toliy [00:49:04]:
So, so, so then the, the okay, so then is there not the fear about being. Being a interior designer on those kinds of terms and being okay with doing the. The boho Catherine mix? Like, is she not okay?

Mike [00:49:19]:
Yeah, she. Like, what I'm hearing from. I am hearing is that she. She is not. Again, if you. It doesn't sound like her, actually internal. What she wants to gain from it is at the forefront of this whole thing. Before you do anything like this interior design thing.

Eldar [00:49:37]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:49:38]:
The first thing you should, I would say is like, hey, am I enjoying this? Am I going to have fun?

Eldar [00:49:42]:
Yeah. Yeah.

Mike [00:49:43]:
And. And then I'm not sure if the other people's opinions are valuable here. Yeah.

Eldar [00:49:50]:
Yeah. Because if you can answer that to yourself, there's nobody can say to you because then you set the tone.

Mike [00:49:55]:
If you make something right, Cat. If you design a house and you're like, wow, I love this. And somebody else comes in and they say, oh, I don't like it. Or this is terrible.

Eldar [00:50:03]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:50:03]:
I mean, to me it's like, yeah, fuck you.

Eldar [00:50:05]:
Yeah, way like, yeah, yeah, 100%.

Mike [00:50:08]:
Because you see, the thing is. But the fuck you have. And you say like, yo, did I enjoy it? Did I have fun? Did I try? Yeah, did I do a good job?

Eldar [00:50:16]:
Yes.

Mike [00:50:16]:
That's it.

Eldar [00:50:17]:
Like, that's your mark.

Mike [00:50:18]:
See? And the problem is, I think a lot of people, we always worry about whether people think, say or, you know.

Eldar [00:50:24]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:50:24]:
About us. And that's where the disconnect is, where we now we think we call something self worth. But it's just this because we're somehow drawing.

Eldar [00:50:36]:
Drawing or steaming as somebody else's opinion. And it fuels us in certain. Certain type of way that we're constantly seeking it.

Mike [00:50:44]:
Yes. But it's. It comes from our own insecurity of something else where.

Eldar [00:50:48]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:50:49]:
I don't know.

Eldar [00:50:50]:
What, what, what are you missing?

Toliy [00:50:52]:
Something's missing to get.

Eldar [00:50:54]:
You want some kind of validation.

Mike [00:50:57]:
I think, I think it's.

Katherine [00:50:59]:
I definitely. The process maybe do care what people say.

Eldar [00:51:02]:
Yeah. Yeah.

Mike [00:51:03]:
Most people feel like that.

Eldar [00:51:04]:
Yeah. Like. Yeah. Like when you show off the house. Yeah. You. You definitely go into a particular mode.

Katherine [00:51:09]:
There's a sense of pride there. Like.

Eldar [00:51:11]:
Yeah.

Toliy [00:51:11]:
You know.

Katherine [00:51:12]:
You know, I put my heart into it.

Eldar [00:51:14]:
It.

Toliy [00:51:14]:
You know, so.

Katherine [00:51:15]:
Sense of pride for sure.

Toliy [00:51:18]:
But so, so what would happen, for example, if the scenario was like, you guys finished the kitchen, right. And you showed everybody and everyone was like, I don't really like it.

Eldar [00:51:26]:
Yeah, but you loved it.

Mike [00:51:28]:
If you have a problem with self.

Eldar [00:51:29]:
Worth, then you're going to have to. You're going to have to go and say that.

Tom [00:51:32]:
No, I have to say, like, hold on.

Toliy [00:51:35]:
Would that happen?

Tom [00:51:36]:
Sometimes I think self worth. Self worth is lacking. Self worth is lacking. Because even here's what I'm saying, self worth lacks. Even though you on your end have the ability and have shown that ability and you're just not kind of connecting it. You're not. So maybe self worth is. Hasn't established.

Toliy [00:52:01]:
No way.

Eldar [00:52:01]:
There's no way you could draw self worth from this subjective experience.

Mike [00:52:05]:
No. You're not supposed to.

Eldar [00:52:06]:
There's no way.

Mike [00:52:07]:
And I think that's where you get stickiest. Your waste.

Eldar [00:52:09]:
Yeah. No, no. It actually could be extremely misleading that when people come through and give you some kind of validation that then you're connecting that to your self worth.

Toliy [00:52:19]:
Wow.

Eldar [00:52:20]:
Yeah.

Toliy [00:52:21]:
Especially unqualified, especially on quality, which is I think the majority of the time on majority of situations.

Katherine [00:52:27]:
But I think that's.

Eldar [00:52:28]:
And that is very. That could be very bad.

Mike [00:52:30]:
Very bad.

Toliy [00:52:30]:
Yeah. But based on how humans are and basically I guess, like, like we're social creatures, right. And like, like do you think it's possible to completely do things for yourself only and, and have absolutely zero care of. Of like what anyone else thinks?

Eldar [00:52:53]:
I think people should strive towards that.

Mike [00:52:55]:
As long as you do it. Morals and ethics and values.

Eldar [00:52:58]:
Yeah, you should.

Toliy [00:53:00]:
But, but, but are, are we still doing things to. To sat. Like to satisfy others even if it's.

Tom [00:53:05]:
In a small way like as part of your process? Yes.

Toliy [00:53:10]:
Like, even what we like. Yeah. Like. Like is that possible? Or there's there always still a small part that's still like it's definitely possible. It still matters. The opinion of others.

Eldar [00:53:23]:
It's still. But you should try to stray away from it.

Mike [00:53:26]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:53:26]:
If you want to be. If you want to live a happy examined life.

Toliy [00:53:29]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:53:29]:
You should stay away from that. Yeah, you should definitely. Right.

Tom [00:53:31]:
Because there's harm in actually being like individual who closed up, who says they're not this kind of self. High self worth person, but says it so much that they eventually become like the person who they don't want to be. Yeah.

Toliy [00:53:45]:
Because then like if you're saying that then like you should basically be willing to like to, to. To die with your thing. Right? Yeah.

Eldar [00:53:57]:
With your truth.

Toliy [00:53:58]:
Right. Because it's like if everyone says that shit is trash.

Eldar [00:54:02]:
Yeah. And well this is a good, that's a good example here actually. Your cousin, right, who when you, when Katherine is so invested, right. Pouring her whole heart out designing this kitchen. Time, money, sleepless nights, worry, anxiety, everything. Right? Okay. So imagine this. She finishes this.

Eldar [00:54:24]:
Okay. She finishes the kitchen and everybody, all her immediate friends look at it. Ola, you're gonna see it too. Maybe you can give her a compliment if you truly think that she did a good job. Okay.

Mike [00:54:33]:
But if you have to lie. Yeah. Don't lie.

Eldar [00:54:35]:
Yeah. Yeah. Everybody's esteeming her, her finished product, saying, this is great. This is great.

Toliy [00:54:41]:
This is great.

Eldar [00:54:42]:
Right? And she's like, she's pumped up and hyped up about it. What happens when your cousin Ivana, Whose opinion you do.

Katherine [00:54:49]:
No, but she hasn't seen it.

Eldar [00:54:50]:
No, no, no. But there's a comment that she made. There's a comment that she made that. That irked you a little bit. And I remember.

Katherine [00:54:56]:
Okay. No, no, no. But this is before a construction so started it was. We're redoing the kitchen. Like, I have two cousins that had the same reaction.

Mike [00:55:04]:
Oh.

Katherine [00:55:05]:
But I really. I really like. I really love the old one.

Eldar [00:55:08]:
Like, no one. One cousin was here and saw the new. And she.

Katherine [00:55:12]:
And said that.

Eldar [00:55:13]:
And she said that he's not involved. Yes.

Tom [00:55:17]:
I got to hear.

Toliy [00:55:18]:
Wait, this is. That they like the old one more.

Eldar [00:55:20]:
Yes.

Mike [00:55:20]:
So. Yes.

Toliy [00:55:21]:
So my cousin.

Katherine [00:55:22]:
My cousin Joanna was here when they had just installed the. The countertops. But were the doors installed? The kitchen wasn't finished. If we had just installed the floors and the. And the floor, it was still, like, still rough, but we had cabinets and, like, countertops. And she's like, oh, you know, like, totally minimizing it. Like, oh, you know, I. I really love the old kitchen.

Katherine [00:55:47]:
You know, like, that was.

Mike [00:55:49]:
And she does.

Eldar [00:55:52]:
She's standing there. What happens? Right? I'm thinking what happens. She poured her heart out here. She was a perfectionist about it.

Toliy [00:55:58]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:55:58]:
She really thought she did a good job because other people also believe it. And then one person came on her parade, and she's standing there like, you.

Katherine [00:56:07]:
Know what it is? It's not the. Not everyone has to walk into my house and like my style. Like, everybody's going to like it. But I think it's.

Tom [00:56:16]:
It's. It's.

Katherine [00:56:16]:
There's. There's a minimizing there. There's something they want to. I feel like she wants.

Eldar [00:56:21]:
No matter what it is, it's an attack. Personal attack.

Tom [00:56:26]:
I have to ask you a question. To the creator, to the artists who designed the home, was there a sense of self worth in finding the way that this home should come together?

Katherine [00:56:35]:
Yes, absolutely.

Mike [00:56:37]:
Can I ask you a question? This is. Relates to her thing. If you. If we're playing basketball.

Eldar [00:56:42]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:56:43]:
On Saturday.

Eldar [00:56:44]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:56:45]:
Right. And we're having fun. We're winning, we're losing.

Eldar [00:56:47]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:56:47]:
Can somebody come to you and say, yo. Like, yo. Yeah, like that.

Eldar [00:56:53]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:56:53]:
Like, can somebody come and say, like, yo. You were actually not having fun. Like, if you were out There.

Eldar [00:57:00]:
Yeah, yeah. If they. If they. If they saw that I got extremely angry.

Mike [00:57:03]:
Yes. Okay.

Eldar [00:57:05]:
Yeah. And like. And I'm fighting, like, you know, like.

Mike [00:57:07]:
But if you actually genuinely felt like you're having a good time, you're enjoying.

Eldar [00:57:10]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Mike [00:57:11]:
And somebody comes and challenges that.

Eldar [00:57:13]:
No way.

Mike [00:57:13]:
No way, no way. I think that's the same here.

Eldar [00:57:16]:
But they do. But you see what happens.

Mike [00:57:18]:
But I would only say that happens when you maybe consciously or subconsciously violate yourself. Then you will be open to those kind of attacks.

Tom [00:57:27]:
Interesting.

Eldar [00:57:28]:
Yes.

Toliy [00:57:28]:
Or are you actually not having fun?

Mike [00:57:30]:
Right. Because you cannot tell me that cat. You just said, cat having sleepless nights is having fun.

Eldar [00:57:35]:
No, that's not having fun.

Mike [00:57:36]:
So again, you violate yourself.

Eldar [00:57:38]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:57:39]:
And then you allow, like, you step away from. What you're actually trying to do is have fun. But you. Now you're, like, almost patient.

Eldar [00:57:46]:
Now you want to prove something.

Mike [00:57:47]:
Now you want to prove something.

Eldar [00:57:48]:
Yeah.

Katherine [00:57:48]:
I just want to be clear. I never entered this, like, saying, hey, I'm going to have a good time.

Mike [00:57:52]:
No, no, no.

Eldar [00:57:53]:
But I'm not saying you did.

Mike [00:57:54]:
I'm just saying that maybe if we start engaging in things and sticking to the, like, the. The genuineness or the truth of it, like, I'm trying to find the word, but the purity of actually doing it for the reason, for fun, because we like it, and doing it with certain rules in mind, like, yo, I'm gonna have fun. And once I feel like, yo, I'm tired, I'm no longer having fun, or I'm stressed, I'm no longer having fun, I'm gonna stop. I think the outcome of self worth will change completely because you will be doing things with a worth. Like, again, self worth is, you know, how much you're worth. And you will not put yourself in a position of stress or impatience or anxiety or depression or overworking over anything because you have worth of yourself. You know what you're worth. When you know what you're worth, you will start to value your own self, your own peace, you know, and so you will not engage in a situation that is not pleasant.

Mike [00:58:47]:
Obviously is ideal, you know, And I think we should strive for it. But I think that's a way to.

Eldar [00:58:53]:
Yeah, I was.

Tom [00:58:55]:
I don't even say it's ideal. Like, I'd say that that is actually. Actually the Maybe.

Toliy [00:58:59]:
Yeah, okay.

Tom [00:59:00]:
Ideal maybe as being the. The rule that you follow, like, the principle that you follow, knowing that these things work this way. You can just go into it the way that you want to go into it. But I think what you're trying to say is that other things sometimes get in the way that also alter the way we behave at times, which at times can cause us to behave in ways we don't want to behave. But, I mean, I try to go out.

Toliy [00:59:23]:
Right.

Tom [00:59:24]:
For example, like, you just tie your shoes.

Toliy [00:59:25]:
Right. You know what I mean?

Mike [00:59:26]:
You're not going to go and leave.

Tom [00:59:28]:
All your hair in the sink like my brother did the other day. Because. Because that's just careless in a way. You're not thinking about yourself.

Toliy [00:59:35]:
I think this stuff, like, I'm gonna put on new underwear tomorrow because I'm.

Tom [00:59:39]:
Not gonna wear dirty underwear today, as Judy says.

Eldar [00:59:43]:
Yeah. Well, we were concluding.

Toliy [00:59:46]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:59:46]:
That.

Toliy [00:59:47]:
Okay, okay. So I was saying that in the realm of what we were talking about, right. Like in. I want to remember the exact phrasing of it, but it.

Mike [01:00:02]:
It.

Toliy [01:00:02]:
It had to do with like. Like, can. Oh, okay.

Eldar [01:00:08]:
By expecting. No, no.

Toliy [01:00:11]:
What was the last thing that you were saying, Mike? It was off of the last thing that Mike said.

Mike [01:00:17]:
I said that.

Toliy [01:00:18]:
Oh. That you. You should not. Like, ideally, you should not do things unless you're doing them the whole time. Right. Like to enjoy them and not get to a point.

Eldar [01:00:28]:
Yeah.

Toliy [01:00:28]:
Where you have that stress and sleepless nights and stuff like that. So my question was this. Does that come. Like, can you. Can you maintain that? Like, I. I guess in a way it's called innocence, Right? Like that, like, you know, purity, right?

Eldar [01:00:40]:
Yeah.

Toliy [01:00:41]:
Can you maintain that in a world where, for example. Like, for example, in this design stuff, right. Where there are like, I guess, expensive things and cheaper things? Like, can you actually maintain that the whole time with also knowing how much things cost and what people steam out there and stuff like that?

Eldar [01:01:05]:
I don't understand.

Toliy [01:01:06]:
So, like, like, for example, like I told you, okay, Interior designed this place. Right. And let's say Cat walked into a warehouse, right. Where everything is there, but no brands, right?

Eldar [01:01:18]:
Yeah.

Toliy [01:01:18]:
And you don't know how much everything cost.

Eldar [01:01:20]:
Okay.

Toliy [01:01:21]:
Okay. So, like, I don't know, she could, like, this item and this item costs like $20, right. While there's another mirror that costs 100,000. But she didn't select it because she actually liked this one more. Right. So I'm saying that, like, does the price of things and the. The way that the society esteems these things, is it possible to maintain that fun the whole time?

Eldar [01:01:43]:
Like knowing those things?

Toliy [01:01:44]:
Knowing those things or knowing those things.

Eldar [01:01:47]:
But what about, like, esteeming those things?

Toliy [01:01:49]:
That's what I'm saying is that if you esteem those things.

Eldar [01:01:52]:
Yeah.

Toliy [01:01:52]:
Will you eventually, like, I guess, lose it in a way right through the process? You would not have fun. Whoa. My. My grandma would say something like, you know, but we're saying it's true.

Eldar [01:02:06]:
I mean, everything we're saying here is true. Yeah, yeah.

Toliy [01:02:09]:
But someone else, like, put the hammer on it. Yeah, yeah. No, so see, I'm saying that, like, versus you said, go interior design and everything is unbranded. You don't know whether this couch is a $10,000 couch or a $200 couch.

Eldar [01:02:23]:
Yeah.

Toliy [01:02:24]:
Right.

Eldar [01:02:24]:
Yeah.

Toliy [01:02:24]:
That would be, to me, like, the purest form of creative expression.

Eldar [01:02:28]:
Yeah.

Toliy [01:02:29]:
But if you know that this mirror is $100,000 mirror, does it change the way that you look at it? And does it change the way that others can make you look at it?

Eldar [01:02:37]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:02:37]:
Yeah.

Toliy [01:02:37]:
Because knowing that, okay, like, I don't know, let's say, like, I did. Did something, selected something, and it was expensive.

Eldar [01:02:43]:
Yeah.

Toliy [01:02:44]:
And let's say you, like, she knows that you guys had to work hard for it.

Eldar [01:02:47]:
Yeah.

Toliy [01:02:48]:
And someone doesn't like it. Do you feel the same way about that there?

Mike [01:02:52]:
Where.

Toliy [01:02:52]:
If that's like, you know, a pillow for $30.

Eldar [01:02:55]:
Yeah. Good question.

Mike [01:02:57]:
See, the thing.

Toliy [01:02:58]:
That's what I was trying to.

Mike [01:02:59]:
When you. When you put the word, but you're not really asking.

Eldar [01:03:01]:
You make it.

Mike [01:03:02]:
When you work, when you use the words pure and innocence.

Eldar [01:03:05]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:03:06]:
I think you can't just say, I'm gonna have pure, innocent fun. I think you have to then apply to everything around it.

Toliy [01:03:12]:
No, no, no.

Mike [01:03:12]:
Not having an attachment, which is not caring about the price, you know?

Toliy [01:03:16]:
Yeah, no, I'm saying more. Is that, like.

Mike [01:03:19]:
Are you more computation error?

Toliy [01:03:21]:
Yeah, no, I'm saying, like, are you more prone towards, like, getting stressed, getting upset, feeling certain type of ways When. When you are dealing in a world where you're selecting styles and stuff like that, knowing how much things cost and knowing what the general world esteems. What, like, there are brands.

Mike [01:03:41]:
If you're trying to take this approach to something, then I think you're gonna cover all angles.

Eldar [01:03:45]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:03:45]:
And you probably will have a much heightened sense. What I'm at. What I'm saying is if you take this approach, this is examining, like, a living, examined life. So if you're gonna examine it, you have to pick up every stone that's involved in this process. You can't just say, I'm gonna have fun, and then all of a sudden.

Eldar [01:04:01]:
You get hit by, like, probably overwork 100%.

Toliy [01:04:03]:
No, I'm saying That shouldn't. I'm saying that like when it comes to friends and stuff like that, are you prone to have less fun because of that?

Mike [01:04:10]:
Well, yeah, if you have a value. If you place that as a value that.

Eldar [01:04:13]:
Oh.

Mike [01:04:14]:
Like if you ask a million people.

Eldar [01:04:17]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:04:17]:
They will 100% tell you that Louis Vuitton bag looks better than that fucking, I don't know, Coles bag. Why? Because they're there is what they've been told.

Eldar [01:04:26]:
Yes.

Mike [01:04:26]:
And.

Toliy [01:04:26]:
And that's also, I think that that's what I'm saying is that being and buying into those kinds of things is what brews like stress and what brews those kind of like feelings.

Eldar [01:04:36]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. But let's get back to the self worth part. You know what I mean? Where in subjective experience expression, you, self worth has nothing to do with it.

Toliy [01:04:51]:
So why do you.

Eldar [01:04:52]:
But it does.

Mike [01:04:53]:
But you, because you do things the wrong way, your self worth does go down.

Eldar [01:04:57]:
Go down. Yeah.

Mike [01:04:57]:
Even though it doesn't exist in the real world.

Eldar [01:05:00]:
Real ties.

Mike [01:05:01]:
But you now have the negative consequences of fake self worth.

Eldar [01:05:05]:
Yeah.

Toliy [01:05:05]:
You know.

Eldar [01:05:06]:
Yep. Yeah. So you then look for what? Validation.

Mike [01:05:11]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:05:12]:
Right.

Toliy [01:05:13]:
So is this a situation where ultimately.

Eldar [01:05:16]:
You get everything, all the compliments you want, but internally you're still broke?

Mike [01:05:20]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:05:21]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:05:21]:
Like if that one person can do that to you.

Eldar [01:05:24]:
Yes.

Mike [01:05:25]:
It shows that everything else that you.

Eldar [01:05:26]:
Were selling, anything your whole house is built on, matches.

Katherine [01:05:30]:
I think that the compliments, the validation that you get from that is temporary. In the moment, it feels nice. Validation of what you did.

Eldar [01:05:38]:
Yeah. You know, all that hard work, but it's completely us.

Katherine [01:05:40]:
But it's, it doesn't hold the flame to whatever the judgments that you put on yourself or, you know, what's not allowing you to believe in yourself or, you know, whatever. Whatever that is.

Toliy [01:05:55]:
So then what, what is that scenario of having talent but not having belief and because you don't have the belief, you can't unlock the talent. What is that kind of scenario called?

Mike [01:06:07]:
I don't understand the question a little bit.

Toliy [01:06:09]:
Like you have talent.

Eldar [01:06:12]:
Huh? Doubt.

Toliy [01:06:15]:
No, I'm saying that like, if you actually have physical talent, why is it.

Eldar [01:06:20]:
You'Re not expressing its doubt?

Toliy [01:06:21]:
No, no, no. Well, no, no, I'm saying that like, if you actually have the talent, why can, why can like words or. Why can stuff like that make you feel like you don't have. If it's actually physically there?

Mike [01:06:36]:
Because the way that you got that talent is an internal violation. So it's like you can't get the cookie and Eat the cake, too.

Eldar [01:06:44]:
But Mike thinks that there wasn't. The way you got it is impure.

Toliy [01:06:49]:
No, but I'm saying that, like, if you do physically have it, you're physically.

Mike [01:06:53]:
You can have the talent, but you can still cheat your way to it. Cheat yourself to be talented.

Toliy [01:06:57]:
Yes, No, I know, but I'm.

Mike [01:06:58]:
You can become successful and work 80 hours a week.

Eldar [01:07:01]:
Right.

Toliy [01:07:01]:
Or you can work 30. I'm talking about scenarios where someone is talented but, like, actually, they actually have it, but they, like, they lack, I guess, like, I don't know.

Eldar [01:07:13]:
No, Mike is answering your question. He's answering your question. I understand your question. He's answering the reason that it's happening to you in the first place is because of the fact that you didn't get there the right way. So you can't jump over that. You lied to yourself. Yeah.

Mike [01:07:28]:
About what?

Eldar [01:07:29]:
About something.

Mike [01:07:31]:
Yeah, but talent is not. Like, you don't just. You don't just have it.

Eldar [01:07:34]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:07:34]:
Like, are you saying that you just all of a sudden. Yeah, like talent and choice interior designs.

Toliy [01:07:39]:
That's a lie.

Eldar [01:07:41]:
You understand? Therefore, she cannot become an interior designer, so. Because she has plenty of reasons why she doesn't enjoy it. She likes watching the show.

Katherine [01:07:50]:
I like watching the show. And I like decorating.

Eldar [01:07:53]:
Decorating, yeah.

Katherine [01:07:55]:
However, if everything is of a construction with miscommunication, with. That's different. Like, I don't have experience with that.

Toliy [01:08:12]:
No, I'm saying decorating, you know, getting.

Katherine [01:08:14]:
Pillows and blankets, that's different.

Toliy [01:08:16]:
I'm saying in those scenarios, like, for example, if you want to compare the basketball court. Right. Someone who's not that good. Right, right. For example, like, I don't know, like they have some ability. Right. But with your particular encouragement, they can be better. Or with your particular discouragement, they could be worse.

Toliy [01:08:34]:
Right, but, like, the, like, the physical ill are there, but words can either enhance them or they can.

Eldar [01:08:43]:
No, no, but then you underestimate the power of the mind. Those people who. You know, when you put pressure on those people and they fold under pressure, this is their physical abilities clearly tied to pressure. You know what I'm saying? Or no, like, you cannot say. Yeah, they have a physical ability. Sure, this guy can dunk it wide open, but then when there's people around them, he cannot go around him. He could.

Mike [01:09:08]:
He.

Eldar [01:09:08]:
He blocked, you know. You know you can't do it.

Toliy [01:09:10]:
Yeah, yeah. That's what I was asking. Is that, like, how does that block get created if the physical abilities are there? Like. Like, how?

Katherine [01:09:20]:
Because he doesn't Believe himself.

Eldar [01:09:22]:
Yeah, they don't.

Katherine [01:09:24]:
That's the biggest block you go.

Eldar [01:09:26]:
Yeah, that's part of the thing. It's like, especially in the competitive thing. It's like there's guys.

Katherine [01:09:31]:
Remember the video of Houdini the other day?

Eldar [01:09:33]:
Yeah.

Katherine [01:09:34]:
Where the cell wasn't locked, but he believed it was locked. Yeah, that's it right there.

Eldar [01:09:39]:
Yeah.

Toliy [01:09:40]:
Yeah. So see it's like a lot of these things are like way more how you're like how you can use your mind to bring you up or down or how you allow others to bring you up or down.

Eldar [01:09:54]:
Yeah.

Toliy [01:09:54]:
Not really a matter of your competition with you.

Katherine [01:09:58]:
Like, sure, maybe I can be a little sensitive but like this is entirely my own thing. This is not like people have not told me, oh, you can't do it, you can't do it. This is my own self telling me I can't do it.

Eldar [01:10:10]:
Yeah.

Katherine [01:10:10]:
You see it's internal. It's my own thing, you know.

Toliy [01:10:13]:
But, but.

Katherine [01:10:16]:
People are encouraging.

Toliy [01:10:17]:
But do you actually have good reasons?

Mike [01:10:19]:
Not doing it.

Eldar [01:10:19]:
But I Do you actually have good.

Toliy [01:10:22]:
Like, is it actually like, do you actually have though, like reasons as to why you can't do this or should.

Eldar [01:10:29]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:10:29]:
She conscious or subconscious? She knows that.

Eldar [01:10:31]:
Yes.

Mike [01:10:32]:
She does not want to do it the way she's been doing it. My guess, that's it.

Katherine [01:10:35]:
That's it right there.

Mike [01:10:36]:
And she hasn't found the approach to do it to herself otherwise.

Toliy [01:10:39]:
So she's correct. Right?

Eldar [01:10:41]:
She's correct.

Toliy [01:10:42]:
So that's not a self worth problem.

Eldar [01:10:44]:
It's not a self worth problem at all.

Toliy [01:10:47]:
She actually is correct about that. She cannot do this.

Eldar [01:10:50]:
No.

Mike [01:10:50]:
There is a self worth problem somewhere else. But it just comes out here, I think.

Eldar [01:10:54]:
Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Like I believe Tom can make those videos, those funny videos.

Toliy [01:10:58]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:10:59]:
But can I do. I believe he can do consistently. No, he cannot. No. So no, he cannot do it.

Toliy [01:11:03]:
No.

Katherine [01:11:04]:
Just like for me, you know what I'm saying? Just like this stuff like, you know, the consistency that requires and the amount of like effort. It's a very high stress that we're doing this.

Eldar [01:11:12]:
Yeah.

Katherine [01:11:13]:
Professionally.

Eldar [01:11:14]:
Like Catherine is not a type of person who handles stress.

Katherine [01:11:16]:
I cannot handle stress at all.

Eldar [01:11:19]:
No.

Toliy [01:11:20]:
So this is not pressure, you know what I'm saying?

Katherine [01:11:23]:
Pressure. It's not my fields like that, you know.

Eldar [01:11:27]:
Yes.

Toliy [01:11:27]:
Then you know probably internally that you should not offer these kinds of services.

Katherine [01:11:31]:
Absolutely not.

Toliy [01:11:33]:
If in those. Yeah. In the ways that I guess that she relates.

Katherine [01:11:38]:
Unless I, you know, unless.

Eldar [01:11:40]:
Unless she makes her own rules. Right. She has a website where she's selling her services and says that you cannot dictate anything regarding this.

Mike [01:11:50]:
There's 100. My process.

Eldar [01:11:51]:
Yes, that's what my hundred million dollars.

Mike [01:11:56]:
But the thing is people will pay crazy money for that. Possibly because I think that itself.

Toliy [01:12:02]:
You have to have very nerve to do that.

Mike [01:12:05]:
Yes, you have to have nerve. You have to have a lot of goals.

Katherine [01:12:08]:
You have to have an elder type of person.

Toliy [01:12:10]:
So are you willing to do that? I mean if she gets.

Eldar [01:12:13]:
I'm willing, like I said, I'm willing to sell a thousand dollar T shirt, for example. You know what I'm saying? I believe that kind of shit, you.

Mike [01:12:19]:
Know, on money exchange.

Toliy [01:12:25]:
Well, no, anyone can sell anything for any amount. It doesn't matter whether they can find buyers.

Eldar [01:12:30]:
There you go. Yeah, same shit.

Katherine [01:12:32]:
Yeah, that's true.

Eldar [01:12:33]:
On my terms. Like, you know, you create your own terms. But that's what the world is. Right. A lot of times people just don't do anything period because of the fact that they're scared of the world.

Toliy [01:12:41]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:12:42]:
You don't think people buy a thousand dollar T shirt. People buying NFTs for 70 million.

Toliy [01:12:48]:
Yeah, no, yeah.

Mike [01:12:49]:
You just got to be more than anybody.

Eldar [01:12:51]:
Yes.

Mike [01:12:51]:
And hype it up and then people.

Toliy [01:12:53]:
No, but, yeah, but you need something. You need someone that is you. You need someone that is esteemed to do something that like something could be. For example, if you upon a stupid. But then someone esteem does it or buys it. That's how any style is made, right. Or like anything is made.

Mike [01:13:10]:
So you go to some rich zipperheaded.

Eldar [01:13:11]:
You tell them yo, you just have to. But that's what I'm saying. Artists, for example, I don't know, Picasso, whoever, I don't know who was an artist back then. There were nobodies back then.

Mike [01:13:22]:
Yes.

Eldar [01:13:23]:
Their art was garbage. It was just laying somewhere in the garage that he painted and that's it. And one day, 100 years later, a thousand years later, they discovered it. And now these paintings are millions of dollars.

Toliy [01:13:36]:
Okay.

Eldar [01:13:36]:
You understand?

Toliy [01:13:37]:
Let me ask you this.

Eldar [01:13:38]:
It's bogus.

Toliy [01:13:39]:
What do you think in society would need to change for.

Eldar [01:13:48]:
Nothing has to change.

Toliy [01:13:49]:
No, no, but supposed to be this way. Yeah, but like for example, like what wouldn't society. Okay, so then what in society would need to change if, if, if, if, if, if people would like to see things for what they are versus just like.

Eldar [01:14:02]:
Well, I think having these types of conversations you have to have. Yeah. In order, like, like we just sat through this thing and Catherine was attaching her self worth to this, this example of compliments that she gets, interior designing, and she can't kind of like do it. She's attaching the self worth stuff. That's nothing to do with that. You have to have these types of.

Katherine [01:14:18]:
Conversations suggesting that I do it. I'm saying, no, but can we. Before we started talking about $7 million T shirts, you were, you, you said something about not doing things because of fear. That is, that is, I think really the root of things with me is.

Eldar [01:14:35]:
Okay, so see, now there's a difference. You that. Now that's a different thing. That's not self worth. It's fear.

Tom [01:14:40]:
It's fear.

Eldar [01:14:41]:
We could talk about that. And also when you start talking about fear, you come to find out that this doesn't even exist. It's. No, but.

Toliy [01:14:47]:
No but is it fear existing?

Katherine [01:14:52]:
What if I'm not good at this?

Mike [01:14:54]:
No.

Toliy [01:14:55]:
Well, no, I think, I think that you can logically say, right, that, like, you may enjoy. Like, like. Yeah, I mean, we were just saying that you saying that you enjoy interior design, but like, on your own terms and, and stuff like that.

Eldar [01:15:09]:
She doesn't even know her own terms, bro. She does not lie in her own terms yet. She's been engaging interior design in a very unhealthy way.

Toliy [01:15:17]:
So then she does not like interior.

Eldar [01:15:19]:
This is.

Toliy [01:15:20]:
There's no.

Mike [01:15:20]:
She likes some parts of it. She likes some parts of it.

Eldar [01:15:24]:
She likes to go and buy pillows.

Toliy [01:15:26]:
Yeah, but do you like decorating your house? I do, but is it like. Do you like decorating your house?

Mike [01:15:33]:
There's going to the core. All right.

Toliy [01:15:35]:
Do you like decorating your house? If, for example, like, everything is in stock and this and this and this and that? Like, are there conditions or do you just like decorating no matter what the conditions are?

Katherine [01:15:46]:
It depends, you know, like, for me, I got overwhelmed with the kitchen. It was overwhelming because it was the kitchen. It was, it was a ton of stuff. Because communicating with our contractor was sometimes difficult. A lot of stuff gets misconstrued. There's miscommunication. I say one thing and something else is done. So there's a lot of stress that comes with it.

Katherine [01:16:08]:
But if it's just up to me about going and getting something that I actually like and that is going to be functional and beautiful, then I enjoy it, you know? But there's aspects of like, let's say construction that is. There's so many wild cards.

Eldar [01:16:22]:
No, like, you don't even have to go to construction. You don't have to go to construction. Is very good Catherine is a bad communicator. She doesn't know how to communicate properly. She cannot communicate with a contractor when it comes to this. She'll say, I want this. He'll do something else. That's a bad communication problem.

Eldar [01:16:39]:
Yeah, you understand an interior design and this happens all the time. Interior designers will say contractor do this, this, this. They come back and something else is wrong, is done. They somewhere messed up. There's a communication problem. She's notoriously known not to be able to communicate her feelings, her thoughts, her ideas, you know, into the world so they can be created in such a way that she wants it to be created. There's always misunderstanding. I think a good interior designer who knows their shit and gets shit done.

Toliy [01:17:05]:
Knows how to communicate properly. So then what about this interior design process? Does Catherine enjoy the way it looks?

Mike [01:17:13]:
Don't look at me when you ask that question. I mean the looks are really nice the before and after the final result.

Toliy [01:17:19]:
But the process.

Eldar [01:17:20]:
No, no, no, no.

Toliy [01:17:21]:
Absolutely not true.

Mike [01:17:23]:
So it's not about the journey.

Katherine [01:17:24]:
I'm sorry, Alana. Alana has like one bar of service and she's like texting us like where they are, their site and stuff. So I'm just answering what is your question?

Toliy [01:17:34]:
So, so you only like the big, like the before and after. So you don't enjoy the whole process?

Mike [01:17:39]:
Well, she didn't actually say that.

Katherine [01:17:40]:
Before and after is my favorite thing.

Toliy [01:17:43]:
You heard, just confirmed it.

Eldar [01:17:44]:
So just confirms it.

Mike [01:17:45]:
Okay.

Toliy [01:17:46]:
But the process you do not like.

Katherine [01:17:48]:
The process is horrible. It's like, like, like you guys saw what we did, like let's say a six month renovation. The process is terrible.

Toliy [01:17:55]:
So it sounds like you would much prefer to hire an interior designer.

Katherine [01:18:01]:
That was the idea.

Toliy [01:18:02]:
The idea that would be the idea was to hire. Because they'll just create the before now you don't have to deal with the process.

Katherine [01:18:08]:
Totally imagine you show them what you're style is or what you like. And I have like at least a thousand pictures of kitchens that I like and they do everything for.

Toliy [01:18:15]:
So you just enjoy high rating interior decorators?

Eldar [01:18:18]:
Yes.

Katherine [01:18:18]:
And we, I wanted to. And I reached out to a couple in the area and nobody, nobody, I guess they were so overwhelmed with work. Nobody bit.

Mike [01:18:26]:
Oh yeah, that's right. I remember you guys.

Katherine [01:18:27]:
That was the idea. I, I didn't want to do this because I don't know how to do this. I don't know how.

Toliy [01:18:31]:
So then you don't enjoy interior decorating?

Mike [01:18:36]:
She says she enjoys it before and after.

Katherine [01:18:38]:
I think the Thing is.

Eldar [01:18:41]:
At its form, she does not.

Katherine [01:18:44]:
There's also a difference between, you know, a construction versus, you know, just picking out what color curtains I want and what pillows I'm gonna. You know.

Toliy [01:18:54]:
Yeah.

Katherine [01:18:54]:
It's very different.

Toliy [01:18:55]:
So you enjoy parts of interior decorating?

Eldar [01:18:58]:
Very seldom parts.

Mike [01:19:02]:
Rare.

Eldar [01:19:03]:
Like, small little things here and there. Not a lot.

Tom [01:19:04]:
Yeah.

Katherine [01:19:05]:
I would say small, little things.

Eldar [01:19:06]:
Not this.

Mike [01:19:07]:
Not.

Eldar [01:19:07]:
Doesn't mean a potato.

Katherine [01:19:08]:
Especially not all at once. Like, being, like, bombarded with, like, this.

Mike [01:19:14]:
A lot of decisions.

Eldar [01:19:15]:
Yeah.

Katherine [01:19:15]:
It is. It is overwhelming.

Mike [01:19:17]:
No.

Toliy [01:19:17]:
100.

Eldar [01:19:17]:
Yeah. And if you ask the people that are doing it themselves, kind of like, this is what they get. Like, you kind of get that thing where it's, like, so much.

Katherine [01:19:24]:
But would I do it again? Probably. Like, I don't hate it. I do like it. I. I'm very happy with how it turned out. It's what I envisioned. I love it, you know, so there's parts of it that I.

Eldar [01:19:36]:
Well, why never touch this ever again?

Mike [01:19:38]:
Memory, you understand?

Eldar [01:19:39]:
But memory. The memory is what usually gets the other. That same person in trouble again.

Mike [01:19:44]:
You cannot put her in the state of mind that she felt all those mornings, days, stressful nights, because she'll step.

Eldar [01:19:51]:
Into the same pit.

Katherine [01:19:51]:
I love it.

Eldar [01:19:52]:
Again and again and again. Yeah.

Toliy [01:19:53]:
And when I walk in, you're saying you're. You're willing to endure the stress to get the final product.

Eldar [01:19:58]:
Yeah. So.

Katherine [01:19:59]:
And just for the record, not every night was stressful. Not every night was sleepless. This is six, seven months. And in that period, I have. I had a couple of bad nights, you know, I had a couple of bad days, you know, but not every day was bad. Not every decision was bad. Even though we did this during the pandemic, I think that we did really well. There was plenty of products.

Katherine [01:20:22]:
There was plenty of stuff for us to select from. The only thing that took long was the windows. You know, it wasn't. It wasn't as horrible as, you know, you hear a lot of horror stories right now. We didn't hit that. So it wasn't that bad. And we selected from what was in stock. And there's plenty of stuff in stock.

Eldar [01:20:39]:
Yeah, I think that it's not as.

Katherine [01:20:41]:
Bad as it sounds.

Eldar [01:20:42]:
I think in order to use the word enjoy, you have to kind of evaluate what did you feel in the process of it. If there's levels of stress that were elevated and you really did not enjoy, you can say that you did not enjoy certain process of it.

Katherine [01:20:55]:
Yeah. Certain days.

Eldar [01:20:57]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:20:59]:
In.

Toliy [01:21:00]:
In. In order to. So then Would you say, like, in order to actually enjoy something on those standards, you probably have to go through a lot of un. Like, not enjoying, so. Because I'm not sure if you can, like, fully say that without, like, a lot of experience. Right. Because then you're like, you'll always.

Mike [01:21:20]:
You.

Toliy [01:21:20]:
You could always hit, like, a snag where you're not enjoying. Right. So, like, you need basically a lot of practice to. To actually, like. Like, see yourself in those kind of scenarios and see how you handle them.

Eldar [01:21:35]:
Correct.

Toliy [01:21:36]:
To see whether you enjoy.

Eldar [01:21:37]:
Correct.

Katherine [01:21:38]:
Something means every day is bright, no day is cloudy type of thing. Like, what is. What does enjoyment mean?

Toliy [01:21:46]:
Yeah, I mean, yeah.

Mike [01:21:47]:
When you, like, never enjoy something.

Eldar [01:21:49]:
When you enjoy something, like, you want.

Mike [01:21:50]:
To go to the pool.

Eldar [01:21:51]:
You can go to the pool a lot of the times. Right. It's kind of effortless thing where you come to the pool, you relax and enjoy the pool. You don't get to a point where it's like, I don't want to do the pool anymore. I had enough of it. Yeah, you came out of it. I had enough of it. That tells me that there was no.

Mike [01:22:09]:
No.

Katherine [01:22:09]:
Okay. So when the kitchen completed, it was wonderful, and I didn't have the. I had enough. It's just more recently with these other little additional projects that have lasted weeks.

Eldar [01:22:19]:
Yeah.

Katherine [01:22:20]:
Then now it's like. It's almost like, tell me what to do. Give me more.

Eldar [01:22:23]:
That.

Katherine [01:22:24]:
That's when I realized, like, okay, I think, like, I need a pause from all of this because I'm like, I'm done with.

Eldar [01:22:30]:
I need a break, you know, Relax, you know?

Katherine [01:22:33]:
So that's. I have to realize that, you know.

Eldar [01:22:35]:
Take a vacation for me. Yeah. 100. 100 away. 100. You go again. I would stick. Right.

Katherine [01:22:43]:
Oh, my God.

Eldar [01:22:44]:
Yeah. You went with us.

Toliy [01:22:46]:
So for, like, let's say your kitchen costs X amount to make. Right. Would you be okay with someone coming in, tearing everything down, and you redoing it? If you got, like, a little more.

Eldar [01:22:57]:
On top, would it be more on top?

Toliy [01:23:00]:
Like, like, you got your money back, plus more. But you. We have to go through the whole process again.

Eldar [01:23:05]:
I don't understand what you're saying.

Mike [01:23:07]:
So, like, kind of gypsy magic.

Eldar [01:23:09]:
Yeah.

Toliy [01:23:09]:
So, like, whatever that you spent on the kitchen, get all that money back.

Eldar [01:23:13]:
Okay.

Toliy [01:23:13]:
Plus a little more. But you have to go through the whole process of redoing it again. Like, it's.

Eldar [01:23:19]:
I got a brand new kitchen for free.

Mike [01:23:21]:
Who would do this for you? Yeah, let me know. Someone's gonna say that.

Toliy [01:23:25]:
Like, if you enjoy it, right? You have no problem doing it again?

Eldar [01:23:28]:
Yeah.

Tom [01:23:29]:
Right?

Eldar [01:23:30]:
Yeah. You would do it again?

Toliy [01:23:31]:
Yeah, yeah.

Eldar [01:23:32]:
If you enjoy it.

Mike [01:23:32]:
But you make money on it too, you said.

Toliy [01:23:34]:
Yeah, but, like, if the stress was big, even a little bit, it would not be like. It'd be like, hell no. Right.

Eldar [01:23:39]:
Well, depends how much money we talk about. Right? You sell out? Yeah.

Toliy [01:23:43]:
Yeah. Yeah, I guess.

Mike [01:23:44]:
Right.

Katherine [01:23:45]:
Of course. I mean, I. I didn't have a car for like, two months this year, but I got a better one.

Eldar [01:23:52]:
Yeah.

Katherine [01:23:53]:
Not having a car for two months is not awesome, but I did it.

Eldar [01:23:56]:
Yeah. So what's the self worth part?

Toliy [01:23:59]:
I don't see it.

Eldar [01:24:00]:
You don't see it? Right.

Katherine [01:24:01]:
It's funny, when I talk to Hadassah about it, it makes a lot of sense with her, and she's the one that's telling me this.

Mike [01:24:07]:
Tell her I'll take her for training.

Eldar [01:24:09]:
Well, what is she saying? Yeah, I'd love to hear. What's.

Toliy [01:24:11]:
What's the scenario?

Eldar [01:24:12]:
What's the scenario in regards to the interior design and self worth that you brought up? Like, you.

Toliy [01:24:17]:
But wait, but wait. She's also advising. Just only based on what.

Katherine [01:24:21]:
Yeah, that's also. She's only advising us on what she's saying.

Eldar [01:24:25]:
Yeah.

Toliy [01:24:25]:
Which could make sense.

Katherine [01:24:27]:
Whereas you guys are actually seeing it.

Toliy [01:24:31]:
Yeah.

Katherine [01:24:31]:
And it's different.

Eldar [01:24:33]:
Correct. It's always right.

Toliy [01:24:34]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:24:34]:
So you got to be under the.

Toliy [01:24:35]:
Impression that, like, she enjoys interior design.

Katherine [01:24:41]:
That, like, you know, she knows that.

Toliy [01:24:43]:
Like, she's only going off.

Katherine [01:24:46]:
Day in and day out. Like, I could watch this.

Toliy [01:24:49]:
I won't get bored of it. Like, holy. So then how. If somebody seeks counseling, right? Yeah, if somebody seeks counseling.

Eldar [01:24:59]:
Yes.

Toliy [01:24:59]:
Right. And that person who's counseling them does.

Eldar [01:25:02]:
Not know them well. Yeah, bro. You have to be honest.

Toliy [01:25:04]:
Counseling only. Yeah, but how can you know that you're being honest and that might not even know cry.

Eldar [01:25:11]:
You might not even know. And what.

Toliy [01:25:12]:
What percent of scenarios then are like.

Eldar [01:25:14]:
Until you really dig, dig, dig, dig.

Toliy [01:25:17]:
You come to find out, like, through.

Katherine [01:25:19]:
This conversation, I'm realizing that I don't love it. I like it.

Eldar [01:25:23]:
And no, she doesn't even like it. We don't even believe that she likes.

Toliy [01:25:27]:
It, you know, so you don't even like it.

Katherine [01:25:29]:
I actually have this. I need to have this conversation with. With Hadass myself. Like, hey, you know, actually through conversation, I'm realizing. But she does know that I had a lot of stress with this. Yeah, but it's also normal when you live. When you live in a construction zone.

Eldar [01:25:45]:
Yeah.

Katherine [01:25:45]:
Hands down, you're stressed. Like, most people leave their home, live somewhere else. No, we lived in it.

Tom [01:25:51]:
Yeah.

Katherine [01:25:51]:
So that there's also a stress factor there, you know, that's huge.

Toliy [01:25:55]:
You know, I'm just saying that, like, in those kind of cases where you're getting counseling, like. Yeah, I'm seeing it more and more that. Like that, like. Yeah, yeah. Gets a different topic.

Eldar [01:26:04]:
But, like, interior design has a lot to do with. And it's a big. It's a big umbrella.

Toliy [01:26:10]:
Yeah, right now, that's what I'm saying.

Eldar [01:26:12]:
Minimize it now, she said. Not the interior design. Interior design includes construction and all those other scrap, but interior decorating, it's a little bit more different.

Toliy [01:26:19]:
Right, okay.

Eldar [01:26:21]:
Yeah. Like linens. Right. Anything has to do with linens. Like, like drapery and cloth stuff for the couch. Then maybe she likes that. Like a niche.

Toliy [01:26:30]:
Yeah, Like a specialist, maybe.

Eldar [01:26:31]:
Yeah, like a specialist in a particular thing. We can say that Catherine actually likes this part of it. Yeah, but the whole thing. Absolutely not. Absolutely not.

Mike [01:26:40]:
See, but it's not that she doesn't like that. Is it that she doesn't like herself in that?

Katherine [01:26:45]:
I think it's the way I handle.

Mike [01:26:48]:
She doesn't like the engagement of it.

Eldar [01:26:51]:
Yeah. It requires.

Mike [01:26:53]:
Right.

Eldar [01:26:53]:
It requires when contractors come and they say, hey, what's the decision? Black or white? And you're like, I'm not sure, because this might clash with this. I need more time.

Katherine [01:27:04]:
You know what makes it harder? I can. I can be a perfectionist. And that just makes it even worse.

Eldar [01:27:10]:
Yeah, because you don't want to mess up, right? Because you want.

Katherine [01:27:12]:
And I don't want to mess up. And now I have this big. I have this big cloud of worry because elders there in the background, we're paying a lot of money for this. Is always ready to. To start gunning at us like, oh, this is stupid. You guys are making decision all the time.

Toliy [01:27:28]:
So I have him and I have.

Katherine [01:27:30]:
Marat, like, breathing on me too. Okay. If I make a mistake, I'm gonna hear about this for the rest of my life.

Eldar [01:27:36]:
Because there's a lot of pressure. There's a lot of pressure.

Katherine [01:27:40]:
For sure.

Eldar [01:27:40]:
There was no one at all.

Mike [01:27:42]:
Yeah, yeah, that's true. It's true. See, the situation is.

Toliy [01:27:46]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. It seems like the whole part is like a toxic.

Katherine [01:27:50]:
Also, Mara will approach me when it's convenient for him, like, okay, I'm done with this task. Okay, Tell me right now what you want right now, because tomorrow I'm gonna go buy it. I'm Gonna.

Eldar [01:28:00]:
I'm gonna go get it.

Toliy [01:28:01]:
Yeah.

Katherine [01:28:01]:
And then we're like, wait, I need a day, or I needed some time. And he's like, no, but that's when. Yeah, see, like, when it's convenient for me. And I'm like, okay. Like, I just have.

Mike [01:28:09]:
See, that's important. You have to know how to do that with people.

Eldar [01:28:11]:
You gotta tell them, like, yo, I'm not ready.

Toliy [01:28:13]:
Yeah, see, it's also things you cannot. You cannot have a designer hat on when. When commuting with the construction work worker that's like, they don't give a. About, like, curvy, like, Like, I don't know, archway or something like that. They just want to know, like, what kind of rock you want, what you want. And like. Yeah, Part of it is, like, you having that ability to know, to tell them that, like, okay, you're talking right now to a construction worker that may not be savvy with design or understands that you want to curve here, curve here.

Katherine [01:28:44]:
Also really likes to give a design input. Put and then interior.

Eldar [01:28:47]:
They all do.

Toliy [01:28:48]:
Yeah, that.

Katherine [01:28:50]:
That needs to be stupid. And my design is better.

Toliy [01:28:53]:
Yeah. I mean, that. That has to be accounted for.

Mike [01:28:56]:
But who. Who.

Eldar [01:28:58]:
You the one who making that decision. You. You.

Katherine [01:29:00]:
The person who chose the design aspect, but the contractor is the one that.

Eldar [01:29:05]:
That knows more. But you also. You also choose the contractor. So it's communication issue. You have to be able to communicate properly. And through the process, she's learning how to communicate with this particular contractor.

Toliy [01:29:16]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:29:16]:
And she learned certain things trying to think she had to say no and how to. Oh, I mean, I definitely. I couldn't say anything now, you know. Yeah. So she learned. So she learned on the job. She learned on the job. It's very difficult job.

Eldar [01:29:28]:
Yeah.

Toliy [01:29:28]:
Because I could also picture that, again, that, like, designers may not understand contractors, and contractors may not understand designers.

Eldar [01:29:34]:
Absolutely.

Toliy [01:29:35]:
And you have to be able to bridge that gap. Yeah. No, it sounds like this whole process is terrible.

Mike [01:29:42]:
You know, it is.

Katherine [01:29:43]:
And you have to deal with many vendors. Yeah, many. Like, you know, for example, if you're designing an entire home, you have a ton of people. You have Tylers, you have window people. It's just like a million. A million different things. So that's why I do believe that, you know, if you are not educated and if you don't really know what you're doing, this can be really hard.

Eldar [01:30:05]:
Yeah.

Katherine [01:30:05]:
You know, because I lived it.

Mike [01:30:06]:
But now, you know, you got the experience, and now you're equipped with all the.

Eldar [01:30:14]:
Say, no, I don't believe you.

Katherine [01:30:15]:
No, no, definitely not. Well, I. I don't feel.

Eldar [01:30:19]:
You gotta.

Mike [01:30:20]:
You gotta, like, you gotta learn eventually somehow, and you gotta make those mistakes and just gain experiences.

Katherine [01:30:25]:
No, for sure.

Toliy [01:30:25]:
You gotta learn. If you never do it.

Eldar [01:30:26]:
Yeah, but. Yeah, but you cannot make that statement or that she now knows. But I don't mean it. You're wrong.

Toliy [01:30:31]:
I can't.

Eldar [01:30:32]:
Yeah, because you're absolutely wrong.

Mike [01:30:34]:
But I mean, that's. You.

Eldar [01:30:35]:
Sure, I'll give you your opinion. No problem.

Katherine [01:30:38]:
No, I mean, there's truth to that. And like, you know, through mistakes you can.

Mike [01:30:42]:
Anybody can say you're wrong, you're right. I mean, but I mean, at the end of the day, there's gonna be 50 of people.

Eldar [01:30:46]:
Right.

Mike [01:30:47]:
50 of people. Wrong.

Toliy [01:30:48]:
You know why?

Mike [01:30:50]:
Why 50? 50.

Toliy [01:30:51]:
No.

Mike [01:30:51]:
Or 30? 70.

Tom [01:30:53]:
I don't know.

Mike [01:30:53]:
Whatever the.

Toliy [01:30:54]:
No, I know. But you want to know. Do you want to actually know?

Eldar [01:30:57]:
Yeah, yeah.

Toliy [01:30:58]:
You want to actually get to the bottom of it, right?

Eldar [01:31:00]:
Yeah.

Toliy [01:31:01]:
Right.

Mike [01:31:02]:
Okay.

Eldar [01:31:03]:
That's okay, though.

Katherine [01:31:04]:
No, it wasn't a low.

Eldar [01:31:05]:
No.

Toliy [01:31:05]:
What I'm saying is. No, I know, but do you want to put yourself in a position where you cannot be opinion based? Where it's actually. You're gonna know whether, like. Yeah, like. Yeah, yeah.

Mike [01:31:19]:
I don't think all the beliefs that world exists. Yeah. I don't know what you're talking about. I'm not on that level yet.

Eldar [01:31:25]:
Yeah, it's okay. Yeah. So ultimately you have to be honest with yourself.

Mike [01:31:33]:
Do you believe in track records?

Toliy [01:31:35]:
Yes. Yeah, I think I like that ability to be honest and to like, how can you actually verify.

Eldar [01:31:40]:
That is why Mike's gauge is very good gauge. If you didn't.

Mike [01:31:43]:
If you can't truly say that you.

Eldar [01:31:44]:
Enjoyed yourself and then really see it and examine whether or not you did, you're a bullshitter. You're a liar.

Toliy [01:31:50]:
So what percent of tasks would you say in general that we enjoy ourselves?

Eldar [01:31:53]:
I don't know.

Toliy [01:31:54]:
It sounds like a very small.

Katherine [01:31:56]:
Yeah, but you know what also, I think is going to vary from person to person. The level of enjoyment that Mike would have in a given scenario might be different. What I would call enjoyment for myself.

Eldar [01:32:09]:
Yeah.

Katherine [01:32:11]:
My definition of enjoyment is very different.

Eldar [01:32:14]:
And then that's why I think, unfortunately, a lot of people suffering and they don't know what they're suffering from. Yeah. And that's why they have to do therapy for a very long period of time in order to find out who they really are and what they are.

Katherine [01:32:24]:
You need.

Eldar [01:32:25]:
This is correct.

Katherine [01:32:26]:
You need to. You need to help you.

Eldar [01:32:27]:
Need. Yeah. Because you could be. You could misleading yourself for a very long time thinking one thing. And that's why a lot of people change careers, right. When they're 40, 50 years old, where they're like, wait a second, I don't like this. I actually like, completely opposite. Yeah.

Eldar [01:32:42]:
Of what they used to do. They used to think that they like accounting and now they are painters, you know, because they, like, woke up and like, wait a second, I don't actually like to do this shit. Why am I doing it? Yeah.

Toliy [01:32:52]:
That's also sick.

Eldar [01:32:54]:
Yeah. This happens all the time.

Katherine [01:32:56]:
But that's so common. Yeah.

Eldar [01:32:57]:
Because of the fact that people go throughout their lives under a particular impression.

Toliy [01:33:02]:
Yeah. It's also living in a world about, like, different. Like, you know, one profession pays. Like, it's not like all professions, everything makes the same amount. And you just like, you really enjoy this then.

Eldar [01:33:15]:
Yeah.

Toliy [01:33:15]:
You like the gender makes the same amount as doctor.

Eldar [01:33:18]:
Yeah.

Toliy [01:33:19]:
So I feel like depending on what kind of situations you're in, you may.

Eldar [01:33:22]:
Yeah. What? You're steaming. Yeah.

Tom [01:33:23]:
What?

Toliy [01:33:24]:
You're steaming.

Mike [01:33:24]:
But if you're already thinking about those kind of things, although that's. You're on the good path. Well, if you're thinking about what you actually love to enjoy, that's already good.

Eldar [01:33:32]:
Yeah. But. But if you're not right. Then you have to go on that journey and become a doctor. Right. Go to study 1212, 12 years, for example, just to find out that you're.

Toliy [01:33:39]:
Not making more money. Like, enjoying work, I think is probably like, like a new phenomenon in, like, the world. Like, I feel like.

Eldar [01:33:46]:
What do you mean new? I don't think people crack it.

Toliy [01:33:48]:
Yeah, no, not cracking. I'm just saying that, like, the, the, like the engine is starting to.

Eldar [01:33:53]:
To. To. To questions sort of been asking. I don't.

Mike [01:33:56]:
Yeah.

Toliy [01:33:56]:
People actually are enjoying. No, no, I'm not saying that. I'm saying that, like, just that thought to begin with, I feel like was like back in the day was like, like, what are you talking about? You gotta go to work, you gotta make your money and you come back, then you can enjoy whatever you want. After you've done that.

Eldar [01:34:10]:
65 and older.

Toliy [01:34:11]:
Yes. Right.

Eldar [01:34:12]:
After you retire.

Toliy [01:34:13]:
Right. The concept of you enjoying it and working like this, this is not something that, that even exists. Right, right.

Eldar [01:34:19]:
Which.

Toliy [01:34:20]:
Which again, it just like, shows, like, how far society in one particular direction.

Eldar [01:34:27]:
Mindset.

Toliy [01:34:28]:
Right.

Mike [01:34:28]:
Look at my day. You say I enjoy it.

Toliy [01:34:29]:
Right.

Mike [01:34:30]:
Like, all I do is watch by asking videos all day.

Eldar [01:34:33]:
Yeah. A lot of people under that mindset. Absolutely.

Toliy [01:34:36]:
That's what I'm saying is that. Yeah, it sounds like.

Eldar [01:34:39]:
Yeah, yeah.

Toliy [01:34:41]:
And it's also sick how, like the, the change. Because it's like a situation where it's like it. People almost find it uncomfortable to be the one that raised their hand for change. Right. Like. Like a lot of people don't want to be that person even though they feel that way. So, like, I feel like that's why change is like, slower in that kind of way.

Eldar [01:35:09]:
Okay.

Toliy [01:35:10]:
Does that make sense? Like. Like, like someone may know that they're like, hey, the way we're going about things is wrong.

Eldar [01:35:16]:
Yeah.

Toliy [01:35:17]:
Right. But they're kind of afraid to stand up and say it or be the one that says that, like, yo work is not supposed to be like this. Right. And because they're.

Mike [01:35:26]:
They.

Toliy [01:35:27]:
Even though they may believe it but not doing anything about it.

Eldar [01:35:30]:
Yeah.

Toliy [01:35:30]:
They continue towards contributing towards the. Towards it's the, like the perpetual cycle problems. Yeah. Of nothing, of course, changing.

Mike [01:35:37]:
You get stuck in the cycle.

Eldar [01:35:38]:
You are.

Toliy [01:35:39]:
Yeah, that's what I'm saying.

Mike [01:35:40]:
Thank you, Tommy.

Eldar [01:35:41]:
Yeah. Yeah. You have to be strong. You have to be strong, independent thinker in order to. For your mom, for your dad.

Mike [01:35:47]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:35:47]:
For your friends, to them, like, hey, what are you doing?

Toliy [01:35:50]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:35:50]:
And like, if you're esteeming their opinions about what you're doing. Oh, you're stuck.

Toliy [01:35:53]:
Yeah. Because if given the choice, who would not sign up for enjoying yourself and.

Eldar [01:35:58]:
Getting paid 100, everybody would.

Toliy [01:36:00]:
So I'll be like, actually, no, I want to continue getting on. Right.

Eldar [01:36:04]:
No, but then it's.

Toliy [01:36:06]:
It's the people who either don't know.

Eldar [01:36:08]:
It'S.

Toliy [01:36:10]:
The people who don't know it's a possibility for it to happen, and then it's the people who know it's a possibility but are afraid to be on like the change end. Right.

Eldar [01:36:20]:
Well, I'm not sure if they're convinced. I'm also not sure if they're convinced. I think you have to be actually convinced of that. And if you are, I think you have no choice in the matter but to start making moves a little strides. No, but I feel direction.

Toliy [01:36:32]:
Do you. So do you believe, though, that, like, certain people, the way that they are, they're more in like the follower mentality, but they can understand what the leader is saying and like. And believe it. Right. So they have the same beliefs as the.

Mike [01:36:45]:
As.

Toliy [01:36:45]:
As like the leader, but they need the leader to stand up first to be the one to follow them.

Eldar [01:36:50]:
Most people, like leaders, always Change as soon as that person sparks idea and you know, like.

Toliy [01:36:57]:
But there's a lot more followers than leaders.

Eldar [01:37:00]:
Sure. So.

Toliy [01:37:01]:
Yeah, that.

Mike [01:37:02]:
That's what I'm saying.

Eldar [01:37:03]:
I feel like, I mean. Yes, that's what the whole leadership role is.

Toliy [01:37:06]:
Yeah, that's what I'm saying. I feel like a lot of people could agree with everything that the leader is saying and the leader's ideals, like, they believe it. Right. But they just lack that ability of the leader to be the one to lead and to stand up and go first.

Eldar [01:37:21]:
Sure, yeah, yeah.

Mike [01:37:23]:
That's the thing. Survival of the fittest, kid. You know what I'm saying?

Eldar [01:37:26]:
Yeah, yeah.

Mike [01:37:27]:
Some people gotta lead, some people gotta follow. It's kind of natural.

Eldar [01:37:30]:
Thank you, Tom, for washing your hands. Yes.

Mike [01:37:32]:
Without soap.

Eldar [01:37:35]:
Yeah, yeah. But Mike, I think it's a good gauge. Very good gauge. But unfortunately, we trick ourselves.

Katherine [01:37:44]:
I think it's a very good gauge.

Eldar [01:37:45]:
Yeah. But I also think truly, genuinely enjoy yourself. Right. Without any caveats, but this, but that, but this, but that.

Katherine [01:37:54]:
And that's the problem. Like, I, I have. I have like a million buts.

Mike [01:37:58]:
Oh, yeah, there you go.

Eldar [01:37:59]:
If you do, then, then, then again, this, this conversation again should be helping you a lot by saying that even though you haven't discovered yet or you're not moving into a particular direction, you actually in a good place. You're in a safe place to find out so you don't make mistake and ham hog yourself into something that you thought you like. And then you realize later down the line that thought you like is complete bullshit.

Toliy [01:38:25]:
That and I think waste your time.

Eldar [01:38:27]:
Waste your energy, waste your life and stress. So it's a good thing that you're sitting still and trying to figure out, engage what is it that you actually like.

Mike [01:38:35]:
But what that gauges is what it actually like. The way I hear you say it is that that translates to, yeah, living an examined life 100. And if you can have fun and call like, yo, I'm gonna enjoy my life by examining it.

Eldar [01:38:48]:
Correct.

Mike [01:38:48]:
Now, you crack the fuck out of it.

Eldar [01:38:50]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:38:50]:
If you believe it.

Eldar [01:38:51]:
Yes.

Toliy [01:38:52]:
Yeah. I think part of that is like, what, what what?

Eldar [01:38:55]:
I think we're trying.

Mike [01:38:56]:
That's what we're trying to do.

Eldar [01:38:57]:
We're ultimately trying to do that here. Right. We're trying to take a stop at that as well in the process. Yeah, yeah.

Toliy [01:39:04]:
I think that, like, part of it too is like discovering the rules of engagement. And I think that that, like, you do a good example of, of displaying that like, like, like, like part, part, part of it is fear. But, like, for example, like, Elder could do something and like. Like the attitude he carries, like, he doesn't care. Like. Like, right. Like that. But then some people, like, whoa, like, you can't do that.

Toliy [01:39:26]:
Like, you can't act that kind of way. Yeah, Right. I feel like part of that, too, is that a lot of people have not discovered, like, what's actually okay and what's not okay. And they live in a world where, like, they go based on, like, what they. What. What. What they see or stuff like that is okay.

Eldar [01:39:43]:
Yeah.

Toliy [01:39:44]:
And they. They. They, like. They don't know that it's actually okay to do it in whatever way you want.

Eldar [01:39:49]:
They haven't had the time to examine. Yeah. I was privileged, right. Enough to get bit by the philosophy bug at the early age. Where then I started examining these phenomenons for myself. Where then I was like, who said this? Like, who wrote the book? What I can, I cannot do in this world. Yeah. Like, who?

Toliy [01:40:05]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:40:06]:
I mean, so then when I found that out, I cracked it. I said, I'm gonna write my own story here, and I'm gonna say what's okay, what's not okay, what's fun for me, what's not for me. So when I started playing around, I.

Toliy [01:40:15]:
Started having fun, and along the way.

Eldar [01:40:17]:
I didn't want to stop. Yeah.

Toliy [01:40:18]:
And along the way, some people, like.

Eldar [01:40:20]:
Yeah, plenty of people. Plenty of people. I mean, till this day, Catherine's still calm down a little bit, you know what I mean? Because of the. Because she's been raised.

Toliy [01:40:27]:
Yeah. But it's also like a rules of engagement thing. Like, not knowing. Like. Like that's part of the rules that you could. You can't act this way. Like, this is the rule. Like, yes, part.

Toliy [01:40:36]:
Part of it.

Eldar [01:40:36]:
Exactly.

Toliy [01:40:37]:
You actually are allowed.

Eldar [01:40:38]:
Yeah. Tom, when it's ready, you can come over here and say, hey, guys, dinner's ready.

Tom [01:40:41]:
Hey, y'all, dinner is served.

Eldar [01:40:47]:
Final thoughts, guys. Mike, Tommy. So, on self worth, baby, what'd you learn?

Katherine [01:40:52]:
I feel like I. I got a lot from this one. I think that I was under the wrong impression.

Eldar [01:41:01]:
Yeah.

Katherine [01:41:02]:
So it's very interesting.

Eldar [01:41:04]:
Yeah.

Katherine [01:41:05]:
I'll still enjoy decorating, but not, like, you know, instruction. I'm not a. You know.

Eldar [01:41:11]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:41:12]:
So.

Katherine [01:41:13]:
Yes. It's hard to juggle. Yeah, I was. I. I learned a lot. Or at least I learned.

Eldar [01:41:20]:
That I learned a lot.

Tom [01:41:21]:
Yeah.

Katherine [01:41:21]:
That I learned a lot.

Tom [01:41:22]:
That's it.

Katherine [01:41:23]:
I'm done.

Mike [01:41:24]:
I don't even know what's what. Like, self worth. How are you guys Connected to like reputation and like all those things. How people, how like people kind of let their thoughts influence your, you know, self worth so forth. Or you know, like with the kitchen design and stuff. I mean, I don't know. I don't know how that people's like comments or opinions affect the self worth. To me, like that reputation thing and like the self worth and people's like opinions and I don't know, it just doesn't.

Mike [01:41:51]:
It didn't tie into this whole one thing. I felt like it was three different topics, three different branches. I didn't really feel it all connected into one thing. I felt like you guys discussed three different like things. Yeah, you guys tried to connect into it, but to me, like just from observing, listening, I felt like it was three different, different like things.

Eldar [01:42:10]:
Yeah. Well, we definitely realized that, you know, the self worth that Catherine was talking about definitely didn't connect. It shouldn't connect because what is self worth?

Mike [01:42:20]:
What did you guys agree all agree on kind of that what is self worth exactly?

Tom [01:42:24]:
I'm just not really understanding that question.

Toliy [01:42:27]:
It's what you're worth.

Mike [01:42:28]:
Like, like Elon Musk. Like what, like Bill Gates so forth.

Toliy [01:42:33]:
Net worth. No, but what is self worth?

Tom [01:42:36]:
Agree that self worth was not like.

Toliy [01:42:38]:
The worth that you put on yourself in, in, in, in in particular situations areas.

Mike [01:42:45]:
The value of yourself not a material away, you know, that you just, you, that you personally say to yourself every time you.

Toliy [01:42:55]:
$100 billion, it has something to do with money. I'm worth a lot. I'm precious.

Katherine [01:43:01]:
I think it's link to like not believing in yourself, you know?

Mike [01:43:04]:
Yeah.

Katherine [01:43:06]:
Confidence.

Eldar [01:43:06]:
Yeah. Confidence. Yeah. Yeah.

Toliy [01:43:08]:
Like maybe you wanna, you wanna, you wanna maybe owner or like sell parts, sell cars and that's and, and, and, and stuff like that. Right. But then you instead go work as like security guard.

Mike [01:43:19]:
So where you have dreams but you're not, you don't follow your dreams, you just do something else.

Toliy [01:43:24]:
It ties in part of that too.

Tom [01:43:25]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:43:26]:
And what is it?

Toliy [01:43:27]:
Yeah, like if you, if like I think like the self, self worth is probably tied it to like not believing.

Eldar [01:43:33]:
I would say probably has to. Yeah, that. But also respecting yourself. Right. So what he said to you is that, look, your passion is to sell parts. Okay. Car parts. This is what you love to do.

Eldar [01:43:43]:
Let's just say this.

Mike [01:43:44]:
You guys are crazy with the whole car parts thing.

Eldar [01:43:46]:
Okay, cool. What do you think?

Mike [01:43:47]:
I don't like it. Junkyard.

Eldar [01:43:49]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:43:52]:
Some parts on ebay, motors. You guys are like, you guys are crazy. I'm not AutoZone.

Eldar [01:43:59]:
It's a self part listen though. But you go and become a security guard. Yeah. You lack a little bit of self respect.

Mike [01:44:05]:
You're kind of.

Toliy [01:44:09]:
Wait, I used to security. Put a button, put a, put a.

Tom [01:44:15]:
Button on this one, my man. Maybe, maybe it's your turn for final.

Eldar [01:44:21]:
Yeah. Wow.

Mike [01:44:26]:
So what is like you just what you think of yourself?

Toliy [01:44:31]:
He just said it's about dreams, following your passion.

Eldar [01:44:34]:
That's part of it.

Toliy [01:44:35]:
It's respect.

Eldar [01:44:36]:
Self respect. Right. Self esteem. It's kind of encompasses a lot of things. Like what do you. What is it that you, you know yourself. You see yourself internally as like.

Mike [01:44:45]:
But if you have super, super high self esteem, then you shouldn't.

Toliy [01:44:48]:
Other people's opinion is not gonna affect you that much.

Eldar [01:44:50]:
Good.

Toliy [01:44:51]:
Then you might have high self worth.

Eldar [01:44:52]:
Yes.

Katherine [01:44:53]:
Is that called when you have like.

Toliy [01:44:55]:
Such a high euphoria.

Mike [01:44:58]:
Euphoria bar. Wait, what if, what if you're just so, so obnoxious and overconfident?

Toliy [01:45:09]:
You think you're only what you say is right.

Katherine [01:45:11]:
People.

Mike [01:45:12]:
You always tell people, oh, you're wrong. No, I don't hear what you know. But it's not like this.

Tom [01:45:15]:
It's not that way.

Katherine [01:45:16]:
It's a narcissism.

Mike [01:45:17]:
Oh, okay.

Katherine [01:45:18]:
Okay. And then there's, there's, there's not an.

Eldar [01:45:20]:
End of a space.

Mike [01:45:21]:
Yeah. If we can't identify self worth, maybe we should try.

Eldar [01:45:25]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:45:26]:
No, it's final thoughts.

Eldar [01:45:27]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:45:28]:
Nobody can train.

Tom [01:45:28]:
Were you here for Toli's steak? Example steaks.

Mike [01:45:31]:
Example steak. He said, well, if when you cook.

Toliy [01:45:34]:
Steaks and you enjoy it, the process.

Mike [01:45:36]:
You still want people who come to taste it and say, oh, it's amazing. It's delicious.

Eldar [01:45:40]:
His. No, his people's opinions about his steak should not define his. Him or lower or make it make his self worth higher. It should not be there. It's. There's nothing has to do with it. You know what I mean? He should not be, he should not be attaching that like him making a good steak and people saying, yeah, this.

Mike [01:45:58]:
Is a good steak.

Eldar [01:45:58]:
And it's like, yeah, so for it.

Tom [01:46:00]:
Exactly. But he sees self worth in himself because. Because of itself as a, as a good thing or something.

Eldar [01:46:07]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:46:07]:
It's like, okay, I mean, all right.

Tom [01:46:10]:
Because the guys like his stakes.

Toliy [01:46:11]:
They said, yeah. Where it's like being at like a job and like, I don't know, like getting abused. Right. Or something like that. Or like not getting treated like a particular way.

Eldar [01:46:21]:
Complaining to your wife constantly about this experience but not doing anything about it. Right, yeah, yeah. And also having some other talents that you're good at. Selling parts. Right. But you're not actualizing them.

Tom [01:46:32]:
I couldn't do that myself.

Mike [01:46:34]:
Take a picture. Throw this on ebay. Let it sell, let it sit itself, throw it in the box, tape around, put a label on the side.

Tom [01:46:42]:
The best, the best that I could get is maybe like a, like a, like a seat belt clicker.

Mike [01:46:48]:
The one that doesn't make her beat.

Eldar [01:46:54]:
My father once did that.

Mike [01:46:56]:
Really?

Toliy [01:46:57]:
On all his cars.

Eldar [01:46:57]:
Not once.

Mike [01:46:58]:
I mean every time I click the.

Toliy [01:46:59]:
Seatbelt and then sit bypasses some other things to change the.

Mike [01:47:03]:
Well, you just buy an extra piece, you cut off the belt and then you stick it in there. You sell them online like that. You just figured out how to turn off the. But what's the whole point of a seatbelt? You're fooling yourself to some duders. Who are you trying to fool if you're bypassing a seatbelt?

Toliy [01:47:17]:
Anyways, we digress.

Eldar [01:47:20]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:47:21]:
Next, what's it called?

Toliy [01:47:23]:
This is where you say define trust.

Mike [01:47:26]:
Did we discuss that?

Eldar [01:47:33]:
Yeah, whatever. I think my final thoughts are whatever you do in life, try to enjoy it and definitely don't attach. You know, if you enjoy it, enjoy it for yourself. And if at any point that enjoyment that you're doing for yourself becomes tied to other individuals opinions of it, then you're doing it wrong. Because then you are allowing other people to dictate the way you feel and that's gonna probably lower your self worth.

Tom [01:48:03]:
That's true. I think it's a spiraling slowly.

Katherine [01:48:06]:
That's what it links to. Like putting value on others. Thinking of you.

Eldar [01:48:11]:
That's correct. So do you and fucking enjoy it? You know what I mean? I mean hopefully you do what you do to enjoy it and you enjoy.

Mike [01:48:21]:
And if you're not enjoying when you're doing it means you're doing something wrong. Right?

Eldar [01:48:24]:
Probably. Yeah. You're probably lying to yourself. Right. So let those one count for the micro D. Yeah, I'm trying to figure.

Mike [01:48:34]:
Out like the way to properly like call self worth so you guys can help me out. But I would say self worth is the way you judge yourself. The proper like understanding is the way you judge yourself on a scale of how many, how virtuous or how virtuous of life you live. But that scale is meant for you. So use like how much do you respect yourself, how much you respect honesty, how much do you value honesty?

Eldar [01:49:03]:
Right.

Mike [01:49:04]:
I think that's a, that's a genuine self worth. Not like you know, how much you make or things like that. So I think I'm trying to figure out a say it. But I think that's the key to self worth. And I think it's funny how these things always come up. Everything, like, always leads back to, are you living a virtuous life? Are you doing the right thing by yourself, by others? You lying, stealing? I don't know. It always comes back, you know, just examining those things. It lives in everything.

Tom [01:49:34]:
I live. I live.

Mike [01:49:35]:
Wait, I wasn't done.

Eldar [01:49:37]:
Have some respect.

Tom [01:49:38]:
Very sorry. Yeah.

Mike [01:49:39]:
Can you apologize one more time?

Eldar [01:49:40]:
See, Mike. Mike standing up for himself right now. Is this display of self worth. He has a little bit of self worth for himself. Himself. Because Tommy's trying to be rude and interrupt him, and Mike is fighting back. Yeah. So he's displaying like, yo, I'm worth something here.

Eldar [01:49:52]:
Please don't interrupt me. Yeah. But some other persons could have been like, oh, sure, Tommy. Okay. You can go ahead.

Mike [01:49:57]:
In reality, is he worth something?

Eldar [01:50:03]:
Probably not. All right.

Mike [01:50:04]:
Go ahead, Tom.

Tom [01:50:05]:
My bad. He's my friend. I can't help it. Sometimes I want to just jump in.

Mike [01:50:10]:
It's all good time. I was the done but not finished.

Eldar [01:50:13]:
Yeah.

Tom [01:50:13]:
So you're saying you just played yourself.

Mike [01:50:15]:
Yes. Okay.

Eldar [01:50:18]:
Tom.

Tom [01:50:22]:
Well, I'm trying to differentiate now, but I shouldn't get in my own way.

Toliy [01:50:27]:
So my last thought was just, I, I think if you just left it there, then that would be sick.

Eldar [01:50:35]:
Yeah. That's a d. Display of, like, self worth for sure.

Toliy [01:50:38]:
Yeah.

Tom [01:50:38]:
I, I, I think that even though I find that, like, most days, I consider a good number of things that, that still doesn't exclude other people. Like being part of my everyday life and sometimes situations that I'm in being uncomfortable for me. So I, I think that self worth is just something made up. I, I need to sort of regulate, you know what I mean, at times. But it's also with me. So, yeah, I think, like, just being honest is really a good part of knowing my own self worth.

Eldar [01:51:22]:
Quick question. Does having self worth or knowing your self worth correlate with how much fun you will have? Yeah. Right.

Mike [01:51:32]:
Because you respect yourself. You wouldn't get into situations you would.

Eldar [01:51:34]:
Not get into situations with enough.

Katherine [01:51:36]:
Step one is you have to know yourself.

Eldar [01:51:38]:
Yes.

Mike [01:51:43]:
Get to know yourself. You got to observe yourself.

Katherine [01:51:46]:
Exactly. It sounds very simple and easy.

Mike [01:51:50]:
Oh, yeah.

Eldar [01:51:53]:
Thanks, Tom, for leading us there.