On this week's episode you probably have to have an acknowledgement in the moment of ignorance , to then have humility , to then to learn , because humility is not required without ignorance . There you go , you know I agree with this 100% . Need to be at the mercy of someone else's time and pace .
I think that's a logistical almost a logical answer to how to get into the moment . Is the pain to do something about it greater or less than the pain of not doing something about it that you've been doing for a while ?
Yeah , that's interesting . Yeah , sure . So the topic is is there a guess ? Maybe sequence of events or sequence that needs to be followed Should be followed in order to like where do you start ? As far as like virtues is concerned , is there like a ?
one that's Virtues . Oh , you said virtues , Virtues yeah , yeah .
is there like before you practice , for example , you know , or you try to understand , you know , an application of justice ? Is there something that needs to be kind of understood and practiced beforehand ? So is there like higher level versus lower level ? Is there like a baseline of certain things you need as like a foundation , virtues , yeah , of virtues .
And then there's like level two , advanced , for example . Is there such a thing ? And if there is , I mean I don't know the answer , but how does that look in ?
Yeah , that's the question . What made you think of the question ?
I would actually have to think about it because I had a lot of events that happened throughout the week . I can't recall . I like it . What made you think about it ?
Yeah , like why is that an important question to ask for you ?
For me . You like these Tully .
I like this ? Yeah , because once he was asking the question , many thoughts went into my head and I think I'm understanding a little bit . Okay , good , look at that . I got a notification from UberEats . Enjoy reliable deliveries for fruit , veggies and more in just a few taps .
Very nice you think they send us in a particular time , then we were thinking about it . Yeah , perfect , damn my credit . So the reason I asked this , this happened a long time ago .
I've been thinking about this for a long time , but it's probably some interactions that I have with people and I see there may be proficient in one thing and I look at like yo damn , they're proficient in that , but they're not proficient in things that I would consider basic . But that's probably my misinterpretation of what basic is .
That's why I raised that question , like am I wrong here To say hey , there's some baseline things and then there's some advanced things ?
Yeah , okay , so give us an example of what you think is baseline and then obviously advanced , like you said , like justice , maybe practice , injustice , more so advanced maybe . Yeah Right , what would be an example of ?
Probably respect for yourself , respect for others , consideration again of others Are those things that come easier for you . I'm not sure I have to think about that .
Like , and that's why maybe you call them baseline- Maybe it's possible .
Yeah , like I said , I don't really know , but this is something I've been thinking about . That's why I consider them the baseline , but maybe in my head I think they're easier to execute versus something that's much more advanced , where it's maybe much more complicated . The situation maybe more complicated , but the application might be subjective .
Yeah , it might be Because to someone maybe applying justice is easier comes easier than maybe self-respect .
It's possible . Yeah , I just don't know , like how would that look ?
So there were a couple of leaders I think I'm thinking maybe of one of them I'm okay , right who's talked and preached a lot about fairness , justice , equality , right , but maybe lack a certain level of respect , and obviously everybody knows the story . Why that is Because he clearly they said that he had mistresses . I think this is true , a true fact .
Let's just go off of that . So someone who's talking about , let's just say , higher levels of understandings , right or truths Mine necessarily is not practicing the same thing when it comes to his own personal life . Right . So what does that say ?
I mean maybe then , like you said , the other things are easier for that person to execute versus the other ones . Some of the other ones , right , right .
So I'm saying my question will probably be then . I think it's a very good , important question . But well then , if we have these examples , is it subjective , the order of events based on the people that we are and within that spectrum of the moment ?
Yeah , that's the question , like , do you need to ? Is there a certain way to go about it ? If you'd like to reach , I guess , why would this be important ? Well , I think for quality of life right To ultimately live a happy life , you obviously would like to know if there's a proper way to execute things right .
You want to know the basics .
Well , you hope possibly the basics , but also I think , part of the basics also sequence of events . Like , is it important before you walk I mean before you run to walk , or before that to crawl , yeah , or does that not apply in this world ?
That's the question , because , as I'm working on myself and trying to figure out how to navigate these things , that question came about because I'm like , hey , maybe I'm trying to think of two things that are like , hey , I'm not ready to face those yet .
They're good theories , but maybe I should just focus on the basic stuff which I consider basic but that might not be , is respect or consideration or compassion or , like you know , seeing things what they are . Maybe they sound a little bit easier . They're probably not easier , I think , maybe I don't know . I guess the question is all values equal or equally ?
That's a very good question . All values created equal . Yeah , that's a good one , yeah . All values come the same way to each person . All people is just in general .
But to tie it into what we spoke about the last few weeks I mentioned , I think every single virtue is connected to every other virtue , so I'm not sure how that also ties into it , but that's also a theory that I have , that you can't be one versus the other .
Yeah , I don't think there is any , in a way , like I feel like there's no separation , because how can you practice honesty without practicing the patience , like that's also a different virtue ? How can you practice honesty with respect or without compassion ?
Right . Well , why can't you practice honesty without patience ?
Well , I think , if you were to put out a certain scenario , that you need to be honest , being patient may be the right thing as well . There's patience within that act of the honesty .
But how would ? Being impatient and being honest ?
Well , I don't know . Again , this is just a theory , but I think that every single virtue has a piece of every other virtue within it Are you saying that some of it doesn't translate .
It does translate . It would have to be an example , some examples we can bring up . Probably , like totally probably , is challenging at that point .
I mean , I'm not probably not every single example . It would apply to , yeah , or maybe it would , I'm not sure , but I think I would have to think of an example , I don't know one , I wasn't thinking about that , but I think it does have a part of every virtue within it .
We can talk about that if you guys , like I mean I , definitely open to discuss that theory . It's just a hunch I have . If we can figure out a scenario , we can try to dissect it and see if those things are within it as well .
So what are you thinking ?
Well , I mean , I guess it's actually the first point that Mike was making around what's easy and hard . I think all the things that he brought is more basics or simple .
I think those are incredibly hard things Because when I view it like , practicing it , I know for a fact that the best and the most like let's say , if you want to call them evil or bad or ignorant , people still practice all those you know , I think all those values , just at a very low , low amount , right , the meanest person could still be compassionate .
The meanest person could still be respectful . You may not be respectful majority of the time , but there are times where he's still respectful or understanding or stuff like that .
So everybody tunes into glimpses of this , but to me , any of those things for you to , if you're someone that could like embody those things , let's just say 95% plus times or 99% like for someone who doesn't do that , to me that's a very , very advanced step to be able to do that Like . That's extremely difficult . For example , self respect .
For you to be self respectful , let's just say , in all scenarios , 95 or 99% of the time . That to me sounds extremely challenging right Now to do it . You know , 5% of the time , or 1% of the time . I mean still not easy , but more doable . Or if you're more advanced , go 20 or 30 or 40 . So that's my opinion on that .
Like I don't view any of those things as like basic or stuff like that , I think they're all extremely , very like , extremely hard . So why do ?
you find that big disparity ? If you totally find that those things that you mentioned are very kind of equally hard , why do you find some of them to be basic versus ? Well , I think they are .
I think even the basic ones are very hard , oh , okay .
So I think , they are hard .
So you agree with him , I agree with him . I think all of them are very hard . But I think people may be practicing prematurely certain things that are way too advanced for them , where they haven't , in my opinion , figured out the basics . But again , it doesn't . It sounds like weird , but in my head it makes sense .
Yeah , I think that , like he said , to be able to practice self-respect in 95 or 99% of the times would be extremely difficult , absolutely .
But also I feel , like in Mike's point , which I think that if we were all to subjectively talk about any of these kinds of things , it's very hard to not categorize certain things as easy or hard .
Because when you're talking about it from that kind of point of view , I think that , like you're making a judgment as to how well or not well , you do something Right and then you're forming from there a take as to what makes something harder or easy .
Right , it's very subjective , yeah .
Someone could go and be like , you know , let's just say Mike was playing , if he was playing with players of basketball that are not so good , and then , like , let's say , someone comes in and like , dominates them maybe . Like basketball is easy , right , like the sport of basketball is easy .
Like they had an experience , they have a certain perception of things and now they formed like a like a conclusion on that Right Now , throw in players who are really good , like you , or other people who are very good throwing some NBA players , then that person gets destroyed .
They'd be like , wow , there's actually way more to the sport than I thought , right , yeah , so like , for example , that might be an example of how someone might make a conclusion about something but then , based on like new findings , then they would change their opinions .
So this is an example of perception is actually not the reality , so so because a lot of people like this generally perception is not the reality unless your perception aligns so happens to align with the reality , which is right .
That's ideal .
Yeah , but I think , yeah , lots of times , like , and it could actually work in the opposite . You could , you could be like yo . Respect is very hard and you might be a pretty respectful person and not even realize it . For example , yeah , you might not even see that you're practicing that , but not even like .
Like , but because you're not in tune with that , you might not even know that like this is what you're doing , but you're doing a good job at it .
So it could work in both ways where it's like you think you're better than you are , and then it could work in the other way , where you're you think you're worse , but you're actually better than you are in that thing .
Yeah .
Yeah .
Yeah , I think until you kind of , you know , talk about objective definitions of these things that we talk about and kind of rate them , let's just say in the most honest way possible , you know , most educated , if we can . It's very hard to kind of quantify , yeah .
They're also in all of these things , like they're all they're , for example , the virtue of self-respect . Right , let's just say , maybe for me , let's just say in , like the business world , the sales world , at the point where I'm at now , it might be easier for me to practice self-respect in that .
Yeah , Right , for example , yeah , but maybe you throw me in a different scenario and maybe , like , in this business world , I can be self-respect like 95% of the time . Yeah , I could really practice it . I don't disrespect myself , I don't overextend , I don't , like you know , promise things I can't do and , like you know , I don't do any of that right .
But then you throw a virtue up against yeah , let's say a relationship , and then you just get started getting ragdolled yeah , right Now , what Now ? Like , have you mastered self-respect ?
And so I feel like to me it's like there's no , there's no , like doing the basics or not , because all of these things have so many different ties and so many different parts of your life that the application , the like , the upholding , the education , all that combined with all of these things is an endless path .
Okay , and you're an expert and a novice at the same time always Sure .
So then let me ask you this question Can't we then not use happiness in specific fields as a measure to know whether or not we have some mastery of those virtues within that particular field ?
Wait you , you worded that in a very confusing way , can't ? We can ?
we can we use , okay , not can't , can't we use . Can we use Right ? I can say it like that Okay , yeah , yeah .
Can we use happiness as a measure , right ?
Of mastery of a specific virtue was just a self-respect , like you said in the specific field .
Meaning now . Would you consider ignorance happiness ?
Hold on a second Before you hit me with that one . Yeah , would you say that when talking about self-respect , that you are generally happy the way you carry yourself when you do sales ? When it comes to self-respect , yes . You do , I do so . There you go , right .
So I mean , without going into depth of what's actually going on and stuff , right , making examples and stuff , then that's your measure to say that you know what in business or in sales , I have self-respect .
Yeah .
So what happiness be a good measure A university within a specific field .
Right Acceptable university probably right .
Yeah , yeah , you know what I mean . Obviously , we're going off of totally's , but I think , me and totally speak the same language when it comes to happiness and self-respect , where we can both say that totally doesn't punk out on the phone call versus , for example , how Philip does All right . Yeah .
Who doesn't carry self-respect , right , yeah , through the phone call . So I think that there you go , right . If you can take the ruler of happiness into different fields , like he said , right , then I'll take this and say you know what , totally , let's just have .
Say that he has an imaginary girlfriend , you know , are you happy with your self-respect and your relationship , you know , in your romantic relationship ? Yeah , with your relationship with your parents , for example , right . Or something else , a relationship somewhere else , right .
And it goes on and on , and on , and on , and on and on , because we obviously are not limited to just totally . Is not just a sales guy , he's also a brother , he's also a son . You know what I mean . Sometimes he's a daughter .
No , I'm just , you know , but there's different roles and different things that we play right in this life , different identities that we have and I think the mastery of those things that you said virtues , self-respect and some other stuff , honesty and things like that can carry different weight based on the field that we've mastered or not .
Yes .
Yeah , I don't , and we can measure it through happiness . If we're happy or not , yeah , which is still subjective .
Yeah , see , like I don't view them maybe so much as connected , but maybe like the feeling that you get with it might be or the right word might be like balance , you know , Like if you're not working all of those things , you're going to have an imbalance that occurs , but not necessarily that they're all , let's say , directly connected where you can't have one
or the other . So , like that , that's how I view it , right , Like , and it all applies to all different individuals , because a virtue is something that exists outside of you and it's something that you tune into in that specific thing that you're talking about .
Okay , so that's what I'm saying is I think we're all experts , you know , intermediate whatever that word is right , and novices right , like all at the same time , because we're noobs in certain fields , right . And then we're experts and others and then we're okay , and others , and then we're growing , and others , and some we haven't even discovered yet .
But how does that happen ? How ?
do you like ? That's the question . See , Mike has a problem with that because he actually has original questions like look , everything's tied . Why isn't that translating ?
Why are you an expert in that , but you're not ? But like , why are you leveling up differently in different things ? And is that right , is that wrong , or is just the natural way ?
of Very good questions .
Well , yeah , I feel like , for example , like right , we all at one point know to try to help other people , right , Sure , and I think that's different than just helping yourself , right ? That's like maybe a next level kind of advanced thing , right , as long as well again .
we can digest that and dissect that it could be if it's for personal gain , so yeah , so if you're going out there and you're helping other people with things , that you have a message yourself , that's more I would say an advanced level , because you're able to see it kind of through a different light .
So you may be helping another person to understand what is adjusting to do , but yeah , you're not being a just person yourself , for example , within your own life . So I think that that is also interesting to me as well .
Well , that just shows how dynamic we really are as humans and what we entail and embody in ourselves . Obviously , I think the goal is to be able to be in different spectrums of different identities and function out of the happy level , which is competent level , to be whatever is needed in that moment .
When you're a salesperson , you know you have the integrity , you have honesty and you're still strong behind yours and respecting yourself , right ? You want that to translate also into your relationship , right ?
And if whatever other things that you partake in , you know if you're I don't know playing basketball , you're part of a team , you want that to translate , you know . But that definitely is not the case . I agree with totally that . We're definitely like , if you're one , you're 80% complete and you are happy , on the other , you can be 50 .
And then the other , you can be 20 . And at all the depends , I think that probably levels of attachments that we have , level of expertise that we have within a specific field , you know yeah .
Yeah , I think it's also a different . It's different situations , I think , when you're thinking about it for yourself than for others . I mean , at least that's how I view it Like I feel that like , take me and take my emotions and take my ignorance and take the things that I don't see out of it and look at someone else .
I feel like I have a very clear picture of what's , what's going on and what steps need to be applied . Throw me into the equation Now . I have things that like like different dramas , different issues , different things that I'm not seeing that I'm understanding different attachments , different feelings , and now it makes it a lot harder , of course , at that point .
So like I don't view that as like , like that , like there's one step or the other . I feel that , like , like , like I feel like , for example , when it comes to my myself at least , let's just say that , right , like I feel like growing up on different topics , I feel like I was very like pesty in different things .
I just feel like a lot of my nature has been inquisitive and like like pesky and I feel like that evolved , for example , let's say , like career-wise , like what I do every single day , all day , is that I try to put myself in positions where people give me their time so I can ask them a bunch of questions .
Right , Like that , that's my job , realistically right , that's what I do pretty much .
Like you know , most of the day is that , especially if I have a lot of meetings or a lot of people that I can actually get on the phone , I ask them a lot of questions and then my process of learning happens from like , okay , what questions are good questions , what questions are bad questions ?
And then it's also it's like then my job is also to try to get people that have one opinion or one understanding of how things work , to try to get them to be open to a different one potentially , or maybe get to a point where I can kind of offend them and being them being wrong , but then also kind of help them at the same time , so that they don't
have to flare up their posies at me and they can give me an opportunity to tell them something that might click . Then , when it clicks , they kind of then put me in a position of like a teacher , where then we can have a conversation and then we can evolve in our relationship .
And I feel like doing that now for 10 plus years right , which is also crazy to say .
I feel like it helps me get these , I guess , maybe better like an investigative type of skills where , for example , let's say , someone whose job or like , let's say , what they do on a daily basis , does not involve that kind of stuff maybe an accountant , I just unlocked a crazy thing based on what you were saying .
I could tell you that later , though .
Yeah , okay , yeah . So like if your job doesn't entail that , then like those things are not going to get probably has developed right and then you're not going to have those kinds of sense sensitivities to two things .
And I at least feel that , like a lot of the things I've learned through philosophy , like that and I feel like I told you this before where , like that , that that's how I at least feel in sales was like my karate kid experience , where maybe you were teaching me things in philosophy and then , because I had an interest in sales , that trend , so I was learning
sales while not learning sales at all . You know , and I feel like that to me , translated like understanding those kinds of relationship , doesn't mean that you can call me a good sales rep , because I also have my deficiencies as to what I'm not good at , right , right , but at least when it comes to those kinds of things , I'm very inquisitive , I'm very .
I feel like I I learned over time to try to ask better questions and then when I feel like if we're talking about a scenario where I can help diagnose someone else's problem and figure out what's going on , I feel like I apply those same principles there and I feel like that . That helps me at least see what's going on there .
Yeah , Mike , is that helping you ?
Yeah , no , it's interesting , for sure , I mean . I mean I think it's easier to look at all the people's objectively things that they're going through . For sure it always seems to be easier to do that .
Yeah , right , because when you don't have a horse in a race , like you said , right , he has the ability to really , like , see things for what they are in that moment . And I think that's a beauty about us as humans , right ?
Another thing that was installed by whoever right In our mind that we have this ability that when we're not busy , right , fucking our own shit up in our own minds . Right , because we're constantly doing some weird shit .
Right , we have the ability , or innate , innate ability right , to zoom out from our problems and zoom in on other individual and give them an objective perspective . So hopefully it's everyone has that , you know , yeah .
You know , yeah . I think most people do and I think most people would like to do that .
Yeah , so it's almost . It's almost like we were created in such a way to be a tribe . Right , then , because we have this innate ability to be objective about other people's problems . Right , yeah , as long as we don't have a horse in a race .
We just put that okay , because , if you know , some people have a horse in a race right , they might sway you a certain type of way , or . But what we're talking about very specifically is when you don't have a horse in a race . Right , you have nothing to gain from giving your advice .
Right , you can actually practice on the objective level when it comes to giving advice . But as soon as you look into yourself you're like oh man , I can't apply that same objective advice that I'm given necessarily to myself and to my own life , and I think that's where it might be the answer to your question lies . But is there's no .
Do you think that there is a sequence of events where you need to ? Probably I don't know if it's possible or what that really means , but I would say , use the word . You know .
You kind of have to be at maybe 90% on your own self , towards yourself , before you can have a prerequisite to help other people or not , or you don't think it's supposed to be like that .
No see , I think it's the other way .
You know , for some reason , that a lot and I've witnessed , obviously , this with a lot of people where you know a lot of people that have don't have their own shit together right there can be the best helpers or the best supporters , right , and they're ready to give you know what I mean Not necessarily they'll give you the right advice , right , but they're
willing and able to go out of their way , right , and trying to help you out .
Do you think that maybe part of it is them looking for their own salvation through helping others ? It's possible .
Yeah , it's possible for sure , right ? Or maybe you can say that they're tapping into their soul or their true nature , right ? That was kind of in us that by helping others we feel good . You know what I mean ? Because if we're good , what do you do ? You don't just keep that to yourself . It has to spill over , right . It has to go on to other people .
And when it goes on to other people , what happens is it becomes a double whammy , right ? You help them , you benefit , and then , when they benefit , you benefit again . So almost three people benefit from one effort . You know , I think that's the way we were programmed .
I mean , yeah , I believe that too .
You know , when a person's cup is full , it's going to have to spill over , and when it spills over in that sequence of events , you benefit like crazy .
I guess this kind of thing what you just said made me think , like the thing where I was trying to say basic versus advanced , it leads me to that point where your cup is full . How do you get to that place of getting where your cup is full right ? Is it through the mastery or through having that happiness ?
And if we're saying that living a virtuous life equals living a happier life right , or living that examined life and trying to live , I think happiness is a result of living a virtuous life right , yes , that's what I'm saying . If that's what it is , is there like , hey , I don't read instructions , but if I was to , yeah , are they going to tell me ?
Hey , before you can practice patience , you got to practice self-respect .
Yeah .
After you do patience , step three is , I don't know , compassion , right . Is there that , in order to reach that , what you're saying , cup full ? That was the question .
That's how you tie it in .
That's how ? Yeah , I don't think that's possible , I don't think it's possible , because we all suffer with different stuff .
If you're a master of self-respect at work , I'm not going to say oh , you need to learn self-respect because you're a master already . But that's because we have dirty slates . Let's just call it that we are already working out of a deficit , you know .
But now if you introduce a factor where the person is not tainted , let's just say yeah , but you can say that .
but are we really ? Are we really working ?
out a deficit . To somebody who's mastered that , yes , but to ourselves we're working out of where we need to be sure , yeah .
Okay , right , I'm not sure , because , based on what we're discovering here , we have everything that we need inside of us Of course .
Knowing this fact , it's not a deficit at all If you have the tools to dig a hole . No , dig a hole with a shovel we use in a fork . I think that it's inevitable . I'm sure it is inevitable .
You know what ?
I'm saying , then there's other .
It might take a couple of lifetimes . Yeah , but it's also I can't find a way to look at it like that where it's like you have to do self-respect before you do this , because it's just like there's so many . You can maybe have a similar , maybe you could have a sequences on one particular thing , one particular topic .
Give an example , like saying that okay , before you have compassion , you need to have self-respect . I feel like that's impossible to generalize that as a whole , because there's self-respect in so many different portions of your life Sure .
So , if you're talking about from a time perspective or from a ability to understand perspective , you need to learn and the process of learning . You don't just learn one thing at a time and you don't do anything else all day .
So it's like , for example , if you were to think about it or know , let's say you wanted to learn how to master the act of making coffee . If that was something that you're doing , you're still doing many other things in your life . You're interacting with people , you are I don't know . Let's say that you're working and learning . Coffee is like your hobby .
So you have work , maybe you have family , maybe you have how you act when you go to the grocery store , when you're at a deli or at a restaurant or buying clothes or reading news or on the subway . Life is extremely complex when it comes to all the different micro details of everything .
So , unless you're in a box and you're just devoting 24 hours a day to just one aspect of one thing at a time , you're going to experience . Life is what I'm saying by just being alive and doing things . So there's so much information , so many different things that's coming at you that I don't think it's possible to just over-arching .
I just feel like people are so ever-evolving and learning beings . So there's no stagnant state where you just learn self-respect because eventually you're going to get better at something that's going to require a new level of self-respect . You're going to get better at that and that's going to require a new level of self-respect .
So , unless you're an item that is like something that just remains stagnant , I think it's impossible to just say that you've learned self-respect because you're going to evolve and the problems are going to evolve , and the problems are going to evolve and also so the application of yourself to have self-respect will have to evolve .
Yeah , and then also it's like , as learning also involves , some problems might drop off or you might not even have to find a solution for it because it's no longer a problem , because you learned something new . That like , yeah , I don't have this issue anymore , like that .
So it's just like I think it's impossible to say that because you , as a living human , you're going to participate in life , and participate in life , all of those virtues are going to be touched every single day . Is this true ? Every single day , in all different aspects , and they're all in all different levels , and they're all in all different levels ?
Yeah , I think nobody just is like we're like , wow , that person has self-respect . Yeah , To say that , I think , would be inaccurate because , like , again they might have it in one thing that you're perceiving Well , again they might not have it in something else .
What you're showing is that we also have an issue with the way we describe the things that we're witnessing or our perceptions . Right , Like you said , hey , you can say that he has self-respect in sports , but that does not translate to your family life and all this other stuff . So we have to speak properly when we describe him or we're describing .
Yes , that's what I'm saying . I think it's impossible to generalize that like you've mastered . Like , yeah , I would say virtue is so . Yeah , like , because virtues are things that exist outside of us , right , when we tune into them , it's not just like you get it and you get it , it's like a tuning into it and you can tune out of it .
It's interesting how you put it , you can tune out of it . Right , let me throw some different obstacles your way . Let's say if you have self-respect with your parents . Right , let me throw some different obstacles your way where you're going to have a shit day and then throw you in that thing and let's see if you can have that same self-respect .
Or is there a chance you might get ham-hugged ? Yeah , right , yeah . Now throw you on regular conditions . Great sleep , your focus , stuff , like that . You're going to have a 99.9 , right , great , yeah .
So it's like it's a tuning into it and I think the practice of it is what makes you tune into that channel probably more often and probably have a stronger signal .
But an individual who has the ability to then to understand that things work the way they do you , the way you just explained , has the ability to then balance those things at the right times so they can tap into their greatest self within that particular moment .
Well , yeah , that's what I was saying . I was saying that I view it more as like a balancing act . Is that you can't just have this obsession , for example , over self-respect , because then something else is going to , you're not going to have capacity for something else .
So it's like it's a balancing act of finding out what works and then , as you learn , you might find that this no longer works right . What works for us now might not work for us in two months , because again , we're not stagnant to the point of like okay , how ?
do you convince yourself along enough to be able to always remember this ?
How do you convince yourself to always remember this ? Well , I'm not sure if it's possible to always remember this because you're ignorant . Well , there is there is , there is humility right ? Well , there is humility , but there is still ignorance . We're still going to have these moments .
Well , that's why I think Sakurini stressed what he stressed right .
Yeah , I think before , like before the opportunity for learning occurs , there probably has to be an acknowledgement of ignorance first .
I think we talked about this earlier .
Yeah , I don't think that you can just learn and just always be in this like , yeah , no matter what , I'm down , you know .
So there you go , Mike . That's your prerequisite . She just gave it to us .
Yeah , you probably have to have an acknowledgement in the moment of ignorance to then have humility , to then to learn , because humility is not required without ignorance .
There you go . You know I agree with this 100% . It's well put you know .
but that's what I'm saying . You can't just be like , yeah , no matter what , I'm humble and I'm going to do that no way , because you're evolving , that's right . You're an ever-evolving person and you're never . You can't , you're not like an inanimate object that , like this , is what it's going to be .
It's not going to get any larger , it's not going to get any smaller , it's not going to progress in any kind of way . It just is what it is . The human psyche is like in mind is so , so , so complex and so powerful that your development is never ending .
That is why , if you understand this fact of what he just said , you ought to stay away from making any type of conclusion , because if you do , this is what creates war , and again , this is I said . The antidote to this is to have a curious mind . If you have enough curious mind , you'll continue to have open-ended questions .
Open-ended questions will lead you to what Humility , right ? Hey , I actually don't know . I actually want to find out , so you'll never get in trouble , right ?
Well , well , well . Yeah , because if you get to a point where you figured something out , now you're ignorant . I would say you could just say that you're ignorant now . That's a technical ignorant statement , Because you are evolving , you're going to find out more guaranteed .
That's going to be more about life , about yourself , yeah .
Yeah , I don't think one lifetime is probably enough for anybody to figure anything out .
So would that be an evidence to our incarnation , or no , it might be .
I think you'd probably have it a lot easier if you just said yo , there's no rush , calm down . Yeah , but you're not going to get this anyway . Yeah , you're right . Yeah , why don't you get like 10% of this in this lifetime ? So would you call YOLO a virus ?
What Call , what YOLO ? A virus . You want to live once a virus , the saying .
YOLO bro . Well , yeah , but like it's also I don't know if you remember I said that like you know , like people say that , like life is short and I guess it is kind of in over all short when you're doing it wrong , it feels very long , yeah Right , because it's just like constant pain and suffering and shitty scenarios .
When it's great , it feels fast , like whoa , this has gone by . Yeah Right , like how many times have you did something that you liked , realized you're late for the next thing and you can't believe that , while three hours just passed , yeah , holy shit , you're almost surprised because you weren't in pain , you were in like bliss .
And those states always feel short . That's why you want to get back to them as soon as possible , you know .
Mike , are we onto something ? We got you stumped , or what ?
No , no , no , no , it's not stumped . No , I mean it's you guys . I agree , you agree , I agree with you guys are saying yeah .
Yeah , I think he has it all wrong and like what they view as like the basics and not basics and like maybe like the very preschool stuff , they're actually teaching the most advanced things about sharing , about caring , about , like those little cartoons kids , they always teach that .
But I think where they get it wrong is that they feel like this is it Like , let's say , you're an adult , yeah , by default you should understand these things , and then like there's no emphasis on that moving forward , yeah , like you know , life just gets slowly ruined over time because you don't have an emphasis on those things .
There's emphasis on , like , what they consider , you know , different , grand , like grandiose things , but when you have those basics , those other grandiose things in life become extremely easy , becomes extremely easy to make money , becomes extremely easy to I don't know , figure out those , those problems that people are just wrestling with nonstop , that are so , so basic
and irrelevant . But because they don't have , like Mike said , like those things that we're saying is basics , yeah , right , about compassion and stuff like that , right , yeah , okay , we have a good start . Then then then like , yeah , like , if we don't have those , then everything just becomes very hard .
Yeah , you know . So are you saying that things are the way they are and they're exactly where they're supposed to be ?
I guess . So yeah , but you know it's like a . I always pin you against that one , yeah yeah , yeah , you always like to pin that one . I always get the three . Count on you with this one . Yeah , oh , no , yeah , it is , but it's difficult to accept that .
Why ? Who is it difficult for accept to ? For who ? For your ego ?
For your pride . Yeah , it's difficult . Yeah , it's difficult as long as attachment exists . It's difficult when attachment is dropped and it's easy , okay . Yeah , fair enough .
So is the fight , is always the fight between ego and humility . For some form of it . That's actually a good question .
Well , yeah , I think ego , humility and ignorance , they're in like a constant wrestling match .
Ego is ignorance too right Part of it . Or no , I don't know .
I think they might be a little separate . Separate , I guess they can be another , I think , but they're not always , I think .
See , yeah , the thing is , it's hard to answer that or make a conclusion , because yeah , because if you don't know , are you actually If you don't know . Ego usually knows . Yeah , ego thinks it knows let's put it that way , right , it doesn't actually fucking know Shit . You know what I mean , but it's a convincing factor that makes you think that you do know .
It's a fucking trick , it's an illusion . You know what I mean . If you're ignorant and if you're in the state of ignorance , you're almost relieved of that , of that almost responsibility of the ego .
Yeah , that's also why I think that Socrates said that examined life is not worth living On the examined life is not worth living .
Yeah and I think he said that because he realized that you might think you know , but you're not gonna find out that you don't know through pain and suffering , through pain and suffering , and he said , yeah , this is not what I want , that's not what he advised for .
Yeah , and by examining it , I think that you eliminate higher chances of you having pain and suffering in those different things by doing that .
So what are you suggesting ? Well , on what ? On what Mike's asking ? Well , the people that have a thing like hey , you know , before you start doing this , right Before you start doing this goal , you should have these prerequisites , you know .
I think it ties into the topic that you know that we're talking off the off the air after work , which was you were trying to pin toly with something that he always he always has a hard time with a process . Right , seeing other people struggling with things which which to him seems to be basic , but right , maybe they seem like you're the ridiculous .
Yeah , you know , but it's not that person .
Yeah , that's , I think , ties close to the same topic . Yeah , that that person might actually , like he said , like you know , in that specific field he might be just a noob , you know , and that's his process , you know , but something that he's really good .
I don't know . I'll just obviously easy example like this guy's really good at basketball player yeah . With sports we hear all the time , right , yeah , Athletes like yo , this guy's really great athlete . He might , he must be really good at everything else yeah .
And then these people start giving a statement about how the world ought to be , how things should be right yeah . And then people who are , I guess , not aware they're looking at him like , oh yeah , he's right , he's , he's great at basketball , he's the best basketball player right now . Yeah , he must know something about life or other subjects , yeah , yeah .
And basketball doesn't mean shit . That's right , yeah . And unless you're doing philosophy basketball , then it could be mean something .
Most likely you're not , but you're probably not .
Yeah , most likely you're not . I mean , I wouldn't bet on that . But if you're able to practice that , what you practice with the philosophical application of it , then you can say actually , yeah , I'm a basketball philosopher or whatever , right , but I don't think those guys are pursuing that .
But people I guess out of our own ignorance or I don't know what we look at people like , oh , this guy's really great at this . Therefore you give him the pass for a lot more other stuff . You know thinking like , oh , he must be good at that as well . Yeah , and we get , we get . I don't know .
Well , you know , I think we put on those what are they called ? Beer goggles , right , and we have , maybe , aligning attachments to the certain things that were accomplished by that individual . Therefore , we appoint them to be the spokesperson for that specific attachment . Right , you know what I mean .
And when we do that , right , we automatically kind of let him pass through the metal detector right without searching him . Oh , this guy actually is an idiot on this subject completely . But we're letting them go through and say , you know , yeah , can you tell me more about politics too ? Yeah , yeah , we might have that same understanding , or whatever .
Yeah , just to find out that they have no idea what the fuck they're talking about . Yeah .
Yeah , so what are you guys saying ? I don't think I'm still waiting for a totally example . Oh yeah , that's why I think examples are interesting , because you know , sometimes for me I also may look at certain people be like yo , this guy's very competent in this , but he's a complete asshole or an idiot in the basic stuff , and to me it's very fascinating .
Well , remember the most . The example of this was when Toly talks the things that he talks about , and then he goes on the basketball court , right , very specifically , where he's inflicted by a very specific thing , which is called competition , let's just say , which not necessarily is bringing out the best in him , right ?
Or to a point where you guys were fighting with each other because he was so competitive that when he saw you , who's not so competitive at all , right , he wanted you to have outcomes that are not possible for you , so you naturally clashed heads at the time . Yeah , so this ?
I think this is a very good example , as , where you know , attachments in different fields will dictate some of our competencies that don't translate from one to another . Maybe , I think , though , individual that can translate those things wins when it comes to happiness .
Seeing things for what they are right .
Across the board of all the different things and be able to apply those traits right . Good traits , let's just say the things that he has off the court . Clearly , no , toly is not crazy monster . He turns into a monster when he has this competitive spirit driving him right . So there's a clear disparity .
You know , even though he was highly behind the fact that he's always happy when he plays . Oh no , I think that was me . No , it's you yeah what .
Yeah , no , you said that you're always happy .
I know that You're always happy . No matter what I know , what I just did , yeah , so it's very interesting , you know . So that definitely helps me to be able to maybe compartmentalize this whole structure of our mind in such a way . Like you said , hey , there's certain prerequisites that we should have in certain things , but no , it's .
don't put yourself against that assumption , because I guess the number one prerequisite is to be aware of your ignorance and try to be humble .
Yes , and that's why the titles things . Yes , that's why I think that it's so interesting with your case , where you know you're learning the things that you're learning , but let's throw the biggest kicker into your process , right , the biggest attachment love , romantic relationship into the spanner .
See what happens to all your , what happens to all your , all the things that you've learned , and the jury is still out on that . Oh yeah , for sure , the jury is still out on that to see whether or not you're going to be able to translate those things . You know , I think , I think he's betting against you . I'm not saying anything .
Got to your head Over on there . He's going to succeed .
Well , right , now Right now , right now , yeah , right now . I say now there you go , yeah .
And you might be under oppression and you say yes , yeah , I mean , I know where he stands .
I think that you'll do a lot better than you used to . Yeah , but will there be mistakes and some pitfalls ? Absolutely yeah .
I don't think it's a possible , not a way to avoid mistakes or pitfalls .
Yeah , yeah , so , yeah . So I think that's a good way to look at it . I think , to look at it this way , it's almost to practice maybe self-acceptance , right , a little bit of more self-love in the areas that you are not progressing as fast as you maybe thought you should have , because you've mastered one area .
Yeah , well , I think probably the best thing that you can do for yourself as an individual is to take a look at the places that you're extremely competent in or very good at , right , maybe think about those things , right , and try to recollect and think about how you got there , what you did , what things worked for you in that thing and what things didn't work
for you , and remember what was that kind of progression like , right , remember , have recollection of when you were a noob and when you were afraid to take a phone call or when you were this or you were overextending yourself or offering free shit or doing different stuff like that .
And try to remember that progression and think about what happened along the way and how you overcame those different things .
And then , I think , examine the place of yeah , examine that whole progression of things , right , so anything that any of us are very good at , for example , take that thing , look at it , look at the whole progression of things , of how it happened , right , remember , try to remember who you were at the very early stages , the rebellious stages , the terrible twos
yeah , the terrible twos the middle stages , right . And now , if you are in an advanced place , for example , in that thing think about where you're at now . Right , take all that right and take all that . And then the thing that you're , I guess , looking at now .
It would only be right if you look at all that and you remember all that that you have to treat yourself like a novice all over again at that thing and you need to have respect for the process . Yeah , that process , and you need to really believe and understand why you're an actual noob , because you can see what your progression was .
You can remember what happened , you know . Can you remember what happened ? Well , that's the thing . I think that if you're good at life , if you want to call it that , you would be able to have that ability , like when we were bringing up the Tom Brady example . You can recollect what happened for you to get good at football .
You should respect those same principles when you're talking about a relationship , for example . You should understand that you're a noob , that person is long gone and dead .
No but I'm not sure this applies here for what I just thought about . Tom Brady got to be a great football player not because he lived a virtuous life . He didn't apply anything that was actually rooted in truth , so he got there just by , I don't know , luck athleticism no , I disagree with that .
You're saying that he lived a virtuous life to become a football player .
I think that he had to tune into things of virtue to in any kind of act . I think to get good at something you have to have instances where you're humble . You have to have instances of being respectful . You need to practice all of those crafts to get to that advanced place In that thing . It does not matter what the field is .
You need to tune into those virtues . To get to a place where you're good at something , you need to have particular levels of hard work , of dedication , of humility , of respect . You need to allow people to teach you . It's not just like something , especially somebody .
For example , like in his case where I showed you that picture of him and his boxers where he just looks like a buffoon . There's zero chance anybody looks at that picture and says this person's going to be the best ever at his position . They could be like this person's an accountant , probably right At the team , maybe , or some tech guy .
Yeah , I think that he had to tune , it wasn't like a natural LeBron James freak . Well , again , even LeBron James , how many people are also like six , eight and like 250 in the NBA ? I mean , in NBA terms it's not a crazy uncommon thing , it's not that ?
It's a lot of different things that he probably did and applies that and understandings of where his mind is to allow him to see and understand those things .
Yeah , but I think the line between discipline and self-love is very blurry for most people . So LeBron James may be LeBron James not because he used self-love to get to where he is , but he may be used discipline to get to where he is .
That's all that requires to be successful in the NBA , for example . What do you talk like in the case of putting a ball into a metal ring at a very specific height over and over again ? I'm not sure if it takes necessarily virtue in order to do that .
Well , no , I'm just saying that along the way . I think of learning particular things and doing particular things . I do think you need to tap into virtue .
I think , you come across . Yeah , but again , it's that thing you were saying earlier .
There's plenty of athletes that you can name right now that are very ignorant , very disrespectful and where they are they're just letting us fuck , yeah , and they get what they get Money-wise and stuff like that and fame and all this other stuff . You clearly can tell these people are not deserving of this at all .
Yeah , but if you're looking at them as people overall , are you talking about ? We're talking about them being competent in one thing , not like they're overarching .
Yeah , but I think Mike is having a problem that you're saying that they had to tap into some virtues in order to get to a place where they are right now , which is like fame , success and money .
let's just say Well , I'm talking about in the relationship of that one thing I think that he had to put himself in positions to absorb a lot of information and get taught by people and allow that kind of process to happen , otherwise you wouldn't be able to , I think , To get in mastery levels . I think a lot is required from that .
But again , yeah , sure , it's possible . But people go to 20 years to become a doctor . In school they use discipline , they get a lot of information , a lot of education . It doesn't mean they're doing the doctoring out of the kindness of their heart .
They want to help people , their patient , their kind and compassion to every patient that comes across , or even half of the patients , I think again , that's why I said those lines can be very blurry . A person may absorb the information , but they always may be tied to their attachment to want to be the best or to prove to somebody else that they're better .
No , but in that example , the doctor , you would have to define them like what's a good doctor ?
Yeah . So what's a good football player ? Why is Tom Brady good ? Because he's the best in the world , but he got there by what ? Turning the Throat ? Yeah , jeff Bales is the richest person in the world .
Or Ellen DeGeneres I heard that she's very successful when it comes to her show , but she's a big piece of shit when it comes to treating all her employees , or something like that .
Yeah , that's what I'm saying . I'm not sure allegedly . Yeah , I don't know . I don't know these people intimately enough , but I can't even speak about Tom Brady .
But my initial thing is how do we know , how do I know , at least , that he got there by living that life where he actually did tap into listening and learning , not because he was tapping into his attachment to become a millionaire , to prove people wrong , to be the best ever ? I don't know the story , but that's why I asked that question .
And I think that if he didn't retain certain things in order to be able to apply those things in his other life , aspects of his life , especially a big one like a family life I think that takes a lot of your time to be a husband , dad , and all this other role model , all this other stuff If he didn't retain any of it , then how much of an influence was
it really during his upcoming years ?
Is it possible ? I guess no . I guess the question is is it possible to be this great football player , possibly getting there through a virtuous way , and not have that spillover into other areas of your life where you're also a good dad at least , or a good husband ? Yeah . I don't know the answer to that question . That's something that came to mind .
Maybe he focused all his energy to his craft , but then he abandoned everything else in his life . I don't know Well .
I thought it was just making the suggestions , like he should kind of try to go back and see the years .
Well , no , I was just trying to make the suggestion that if you are good at something , look at it , think about it , examine it , think about the whole process that happened , try to and this is not like a 30-second exercise for you to recollect let's say like 10 years of progression .
Yeah , but you know , one thing is to be able to apply those principles to a hobby . A hobby is a very blind effort to getting good . Would you say that I don't know .
What does that mean ? A blind effort .
Okay . So if I tell you right now , get good at putting this towel down , you're going to be like , oh shit . It's a very specific effort , very like oh shit . You know what I mean ? It's a concentrated focus effort . If I told you to play your favorite video game .
All right , how easy it is for you to start leveling up one level , second level , third level , fourth level , fifth level , and so on . All right , it's a lot more blinded , I would say like , not as conscious , not as concentrated in the sense of pain . Right , it's very like . Yeah , I like this .
I'm just going to keep doing it , doing it hour after hour after hour . I'm completely focused in it , so it's easier to get there because you like it , you know . But laying down tile now get humble , get on your knees , hurt a little bit . Oh , you don't like doing it . It's for the greater good . Can't you see the bigger picture ?
Right , these are the type of questions then come your way . Why am I doing this ? The fuck ? I don't want to do this . I don't know how to do this . This is going to take me so much time to learn what the fuck to do here . Right , versus , like , hey , check out this game and you're like oh shit , this is cool . I really , really like this .
It's effortless , you just run with it .
Yeah , but I mean it might be effortless , but it doesn't mean that you're good at it . Oh , you get good at it .
No , Sooner or later you're going to get good at it . If you keep doing it , if you keep liking it , I think with more practice , enjoyment and stuff like that , you naturally kind of fall into the lines of getting better at something that you like to do . No , Is this not true ? I don't know .
Like that guy that comes to play basketball . I mean he doesn't really come often , but sometimes . You know that guy I'm talking about with the colored hair , Trent's , like Henry and all them Colored hair yeah , Like they all make fun of him . You know , Black guy , black guy , Spansker .
Yeah , black guy , black guy , black guy you know what I'm talking about he comes to like the Henry crew . At times They'll like not let him get next and be like nah , nah , I had next remember , oh yeah yeah , yeah , yeah , he's a little bit thicker .
Yes , yes , oh , yes , I know what he's talking about . Yeah , yeah , he has like a weird walk .
Yeah , yeah , yeah .
Like he might love basketball and like you know stuff like that , but like he's terrible .
Oh , I mean you know , I mean you . Just , you just prove the point as to my theory works here by saying that his friends don't even , don't , don't , don't even allow him to play .
Like yeah , but he doesn't , he doesn't , he doesn't know . It's like a lot of it doesn't play enough .
Like sure , you have to love it , but you have to do it too .
Yeah , but if you have two left feet you got two left feet ?
Yeah , but you have to keep doing it . I mean , the guy that does have two left feet , the one that acts like a Bron James and a lover Bron James , Remember that guy ? The .
Spanish guy . You know what I mean .
He has some skills out there , bro , he's out there and he's doing it and he's loving it and he , he's terrible , he's terrible . He's good in my eyes , he's good you know what I'm saying .
I work effort .
No , no , like to the capacity , yeah Of an individual . I think he's very good . He has one foot , he hobbles when he plays ball .
If you're talking about individual capacity , I mean , that's a whole different .
Well , no , I think this is what I'm talking about in general . Oh , okay , all right , you're leveling up still to your level , to whatever it is that ultimately you can achieve , like I mean , you know , you don't see five footers playing in the NBA , right , yeah , you don't as much as they love basketball .
There's five feet of individuals out there who are just five feet short and they love basketball . They love it . Yeah , I think we only had one moxie bugs . It was five one , five two , something like that . And what Fifty years ? What are we talking about here ? At the end of the day , right , you have to be also like gifted to the sport .
Yeah , the sport requires the taller the better you know athletic athleticism and all the stuff that comes with it . So it's not just likeness , obviously , in the place of sport , but I think it's a big kicker If you like it , it's going to come to you much easier and I think that certain things will be overlooked .
Right In the sense of virtues , right , doing the right thing ? No , I like doing this and it doesn't matter what I have to do . You know , I really like this game and I like winning . Sometimes I'll cheat , I'll put on an aimbot or a wall hack . You know , in my favorite shooter game , you know first person shooter . I really want to win .
You know You're willing to cut a little bit of corners here and there . So I'm like , do we answer your question ? You're about prerequisites for the greater things in life , for virtues and things like that . Yeah , good . So you're not going to complain about this anymore . I might still .
Why you don't get it . No , I do get it , but it's going to take some time to register . Oh , I think so . Yeah , wow , because you know you have to .
You don't get it I do get it .
yeah , I think he gets it in the moment and I understand his argument here too . You also get it in the moment .
That's what I'm saying . You get a lot of things . I'm an ape , then I'm an ape .
Yeah , but yeah , I definitely would like to . It's a matter of recollection now , right Again . Now maybe your soul registered what he said , what I said , and you understood it and you agree with it . But again , you're going to go out there tomorrow , you're going to wake up and the ape is around you , yourself as the ape .
Of course you know and you're like , oh shit , you know and sometimes you'll remember , sometimes you won't Well .
That , I think it's also like I mean . To me , based on what I was hearing , it sounds like there needs to be a redefining of what's basics , what's advanced , what's hard .
No , that's why I think that your suggestion about compartmentalizing everything in fields of identity , let's just say right now , I'm a podcaster , we're all podcasters right now . Right , we're podcasting let's just say whatever the fuck that means . Right Before this , nine to five , we were workers . We were working for a company to make money , to get paid .
Right After this , you're going to be a son with your parents . You're going to be , you know , homeowner , landowner . I'm going to be a husband , you know , and these are going to be my dogs . These are all different identities Throughout the day .
Tomorrow , me , you and maybe totally , will be basketball players , right , and we have different identities that are there . So I think it's a good idea to kind of maybe quantify some of our developments within those specific roles , to know that , you know , in here I'm 20% respectful to myself and others .
Yeah , what I just thought about , like do you remember in that movie , in A Goodfellas , where , like the character that Joe Pashie plays , this guy's like a gangster , a killer , and then he makes a thing to make sure that he's home in the morning to like , make pancakes and for his kids and like he puts on an apron and starts cooking eggs yeah , yeah , yeah ,
he's killing people , like three hours ago trying to find where to bury their bodies and shit but he makes it a priority that every day he never misses it , that he makes breakfast and takes his kid to school and answers his homework questions .
Why , yeah , like Complementalizing , yeah , yeah , so we would be like it's a good dad , you know , for example , right , yeah , for somebody who's looking , who sees him only in the morning .
Yeah , he's like yo such a good dad . He makes it a thing every morning .
He takes care of his kids . He packs it on lunch . He's fresh bacon . He was making orange juice . You know everything , yeah .
Yeah , like I spoke , we mentioned , you know , the example of Martin Luther King , right ? The person who led the people right , who spoke about the truth , who spoke about equality and justice , right , that's what he was big on Was cheating on his wife , mm-hmm .
Right . This is actually true , or no ?
Well , this is a thing , yeah . Yeah . Yeah .
Yeah , what I was thinking about is I guess you have to . You understand this , but I'm not sure you can help me translate it to totally if he doesn't understand . But you know , anybody , this is the part where you don't get . Yeah , no , you might get this yeah it's not .
You have to , I guess , have notes on yourself , but also have notes on the people you interact with too , to kind of know where's your strengths , your weaknesses , right On your own .
And then we're in a relationship to them and then in a relationship to that person you know , and then also that person like , if I know that he's always late , I shouldn't get upset that he's always late . Yeah , I know he's late . This is a note Like that's it . If he's not . If he's late , I shouldn't be surprised .
See , it would be very difficult to do it to quantify , especially a person like yourself who knows a lot of people right To quantify every person's schedule In general .
I think that if you had , a virtue of acceptance , for example .
In that case , you've come to realize that you have an open-ended thing about that . So therefore you're not subjected to a time or conclusion that oh , if they're late , therefore they disrespect me , and all this other stuff .
Yeah , see , like I almost view that like , for example , like I feel like there's a lot of times where I have poor reactions to things , right , and when I view you , for example , in those similar scenarios , you have much better reactions .
And you might be , you could be like not feeling , but like you could be like maybe feeling what I'm feeling , for example , inside , but you may find it valuable to not show that or not to actually say it or do it , for example , or just like like you may have understood why I had that reaction because , like you know this and this makes sense , but you may
have understood it .
I feel like to me it's not even like the practice of acceptance , because that's a very I feel like , like I think it's a very difficult thing to just like to like direct someone to do right , it's like just be honest , going forward , and it's like well , like you know like all right , right , I just feel that , like , oftentimes , what I'll do is I won't be
in the moment , and when I'm not in the moment , I'm probably acting like an ape because I'm not giving myself an opportunity to think . I think all of us , when we're thinking individuals in the moment , we can tune into all of those virtuous things , always pretty much , yeah , like when we're all thinking and we're discussing something .
Nobody's an asshole , yeah , like you know , like dishonest . Nobody's like . Everyone has self respect , everyone's respectful . You tune into all these things when you allow yourself to be a thinking individual .
So when I oftentimes I'm on the end of reflecting on these things , right of reflection , and I'm like what happened , I'm like okay , like I wasn't thinking , yeah , like that's the reality , because if I'm thinking , I know I'm probably going to align with probably much better things Alcoms . Yeah .
Way more often than not , and when I'm not thinking I might get lucky sometimes .
and not react , but the non-thinking . Do you think that's like ? Is that us thinking that we got it figured out , or I think it's something else ?
Well , well , well well . It's a combination of that . Yes , I think I think Eldar finds value . I think a lot of good questions . Eldar finds value . I think in pretty much in like all moments of thinking where , when I reflect on it , I'm like , oh , I skipped that .
Like I'm , like I skipped and because that's why you like the movie , click , click , clickbait .
Oh yeah , maybe I mean that sounds like the worst thing to do . You know it's a skip , that's right , yeah , and yeah .
Well , if you're giving me a compliment that I have the ability to zoom in into most moments and extract what's needed to be extracted and you're not , you fast forwarding certain moments .
Yeah , that's . What I'm saying is that I don't have the ability yet to find the importance in thinking in all moments and then speaking . Oftentimes I'm like , skip that I'm going to speak , skip that I'm going to speak , and when that happens , you often act like an idiot .
Because of it , you could come out of character or come out of phase , to like have a feeling towards an ignorant person . So where do you were ? thinking you would be like okay , this person that you're feeling , that this person's acting ignorant , therefore you cannot feel this kind of way towards them , right , yeah ?
So what do you do into combat that ?
Well , I guess that may be a part of my original question of the night about like , what do you do day to day to these kinds of things you know to like ? I don't know like to , because then you're basically asking , like it seems like you're saying that this is a recipe of happiness , some form of happiness .
Yeah , but you're not doing it and yeah , I think a lot of times I'm on the end of like reflection and then being like fuck , like you know , like yeah , you missed it . Like I missed it , you know . But I do think that I have an evolution of this and I do feel that I've evolved .
I see I hear it ? I hear it . In what ? In the sense that I do , I do see the progress that you're trying to catch up . You know , within those moments , I do see it , yeah , yeah .
And I feel like I definitely feel the worst when I have the realization that , like I skip something and now I'm like you know . I mean it's like now to me more and more becoming like a more devastating feeling .
Wow , because now I feel like I'm missing out and like connection I'm missing out and like yeah , really , really big things , because you becoming more fascinating of those moments and people . Well , yeah yeah , instead of being angry or like frustrated with those kinds of things and wanting to skip over them to speak yeah .
There's definitely a lot of fascination and a lot of interesting things within those . Yeah , right , but yeah , I would definitely like to yeah , because I see this again like practicing acceptance , it's not possible , like no one's going to get that . Like go practice acceptance Right . Like what you need to do is give yourself an opportunity .
Yeah .
To think so that you can , because then you're pretty much guaranteed to practice acceptance . Yeah , you're not going to act that kind of way If you give yourself the opportunity to be aware and to think in the moment .
Yeah , how do you do that ? Well , how do you become more aware and in the moment , like you probably need to change your value system .
That's right .
You know I'm genuinely curious about certain things and I'm able to zoom in into them very specifically for myself . I enjoy the fucking moment .
Yeah , and you see , for example , in that could be things that other people view as like you know that this guy's giving , let's say in like a sales perspective , irrelevant information . To me , it's like no , no , no , I want to . I want to hear all of this to me .
I'm very sensitive to every single word , every sentence , how they're saying it , what tone are they saying it in ? Are they asking a question ? Are they making a statement ? Are they do they have an assumption ? Do they say something's expensive ?
Well , before we move on , I need to make sure that they don't feel this kind of way , because there's no point of continuing this conversation without getting the same page as that thing .
This is what I'm going to tell you what I had epiphany about before I had an epiphany when he was talking about this specific thing For some time now . You know this right , talked about hey , we need to continue to expand the business and obviously hire more people , right , and sales obviously was one of them .
And I was thinking on my head for a while now , what am I putting inside the description ? Now , I know this is the thing . And what In the sales description for the job ad ? Right , for more people , right , curiosity , yeah , you have to . So that's one thing that I'm going to be looking for .
Yes , you would have to look to see if that person is curious . If they come in for an interview and they don't ask , you questions about oh , what do you do , how do you do it , why do you do it ? You could show the person is not .
This is it . This is the quality for the sales . Yeah , that's a good one . It's a long-term play , but I like this part .
I think it's a career for me . It works for me . Some people have and some people don't , I guess , or in certain areas , probably , because if you're coming over here , and I'm interviewing you .
Geeks up , I need you to interview me . Yeah , that's what I'm going to put .
Well , that kid who was here , we interviewed the hell out of him .
That's what I'm saying . If you can out interview me , because I'm curious as fuck why you're here . You know what I'm saying . I can really tell you what the fuck are you doing here . On the first day kind of thing , you shouldn't be here . But if they can out interview me , I have a gold mine . I have to strive for that . That was my opportunity .
What do you think ?
Yeah , I mean , I think that's I mean again to me . I view all the poor qualities of someone that's probably bad at , for example , sales . Is thinking that you know it all , for example , or thinking that you got it ?
Yeah , that you got it that you got it ?
Yeah , and I think we see that time and time and time again yeah , yeah , yeah , yeah , yeah , yeah . I mean again , like the core of sales is asking questions so that you can deliver your information . Good questions , yeah , good questions .
And when you get better , sort of asking better questions where someone is not good is going to brush by those questions , not find them valuable . That's right . But someone said something's expensive . You're already moving on to something else . There's no conversation yet . Until you cannot , you use the drowning method . Yeah .
Yeah , shout out to Philip the drown out method . Yeah .
Big T was an expert at that for a hot minute , the drowning effort .
The drowning method . Just what ? Yeah .
No one Remember . When you said people what's the name ? Said Like you were just talking nonstop .
Oh , yeah , yeah , yeah , yeah , was everybody fall asleep , yeah . Is that ?
humble Practice your humility . Now you know when you came from . You fucking ape .
You fucking ape . Oh shit , yeah , mike , that's the answer right there . You asked hey , how do you do it ? I think , again , a genuine curiosity . Without it , I think you might be doomed , bro , yeah .
Because I think the 100% factual part about being curious is that Is open-ended thing . Well , no , not even that Like we all talk about . How do you slow down ? How do you do all these things ? Oh yeah , what happens when you're ?
curious . Yeah , you have to slow down . You have to slow down why ? Because you have to listen . You have to listen .
There's no way around it .
Listening is the Uh-oh , hit me with a quote this is going to be the fucking intro . Do it , yeah , I mean I- . I know exactly what you're going to say .
Yeah , you think so 100% . I mean I was going to say that listening , I think , is the core functionality , Like the core of curiosity .
I thought you were going to hit it with . Listening is the portal to being in the moment .
Well , yeah .
Yeah , you understand .
Yeah , because it's like , how do you get curious ? You can't be talking . Yeah , you talk much less and you listen much more . You ask a question and then you sit there and you're like yeah and think about it Like if you ask somebody a question , you're on their time , which is also the most humbling thing possible . Oh shit , right .
How often do you ask a question and you're like you want to go at a particular pace ?
Are you kidding me ? I can give you scenarios of that . I have those scenarios . Yeah , for sure . Yeah , because if a person has a horse in a race for a very specific thing , right , and they want the answer to it , they can be very impatient and Well , that's what I'm saying .
Yeah , but you'll never get the information . Yeah , you'll never get the right information . Yeah . Who are you to tell the person that's trying to tell you information ? Yes , how fast . They should say what they should get to the point to when they should not . There you go .
Another thing about this . You have to make another quote about tying , listening to humility .
Yeah , I mean it's very . Yeah , I mean it's very tied .
But make it nice .
Make it nice . Can you package it ?
Package it . Package is your fucking shit for the fucking people .
Yeah , I think that yeah , how do we package this right ?
Listen , our audio engineer is going to hook it up . All right , all right yeah . I guess I just heard you correctly . You said when you listen , it's inevitable for you to be in the moment . Yes , and when you're in the moment of listening , you want somebody else's time ?
Yeah , no , but before that , if you- . How are we saying it in the beginning ? If you are listening you transport yourself into the moment or the very present moment , and if you sense that you're not in the moment , it's because you're not being humble .
Yes , yes , you're not you don't have the humility to be able to be in the present moment , right in order to take in that information .
Yeah , because you need to be at the mercy of someone else's Time , time and pace . Time and pace , which is humbling , automatically Correct , you know .
Yes , I think that's fucking a logistical , almost a logical answer to how to get into the moment .
Yeah . So , as Conor McGregor said , if you are trying to find something out and someone's trying to teach you it and you say I'm a visual learner , shut your fucking mouth . Are you fucking stupid ? Are you stupid ? Yes , you're a visual learner . Yeah . You're an idiot asking a question that you want help on .
How are ?
you going to tell me how you're going to learn this ? Holy shit . You're bad at learning . What are you saying ?
Holy shit , Mike . How do you like it ? How do you like them ?
apples , Well they're good shot at Dennis though , oh shit , oh , bring him back bro he's retired man , that's true .
He's retired , that's true . That was good , totally . That was definitely good , mike . Retain this , mike . It's very important . It is through curiosity that you keep your opened , I guess , possibilities .
And you give yourself an opportunity to be you Whenever I would say probably me and you have a higher likelihood of what we call not being ourselves . And , for example , eldar , when we look back on it , we're like we all feel the same . That's not me , for example . You're out of character , right , but if you gave yourself , you were in character though .
Well , yeah , but like .
Not the character you want to be .
Yeah , that's not the character that's giving you happiness .
Yeah , it's like when you want to be who you want to be like . Yeah , you have to listen , you have to be curious and your curiosity has to be , but it's also thinking again , if you're not genuine about your curiosity , then it's going to be very hard for you to listen . You won't be able , oh there you go .
Now you added another term to the shit . Hey guys , that thing that you taught we were advising you last week about curiosity now has to be genuine , yeah .
It's not easy . What does ?
that mean you know what I mean when it comes to being genuinely curious about .
Yeah , you probably have to have enough reasons as to why you need to learn what you need to learn .
Yeah , you have to actually learn the stuff that you actually want , not what you think society wants or other people , that's why ?
Right , I think the example of sports doesn't play here . Because those individuals didn't retain anything . They fucking thought that they learned . Because they don't have the real ability to be able to then translate that into their everyday life . But the motherfuckers that do able to translate this fucking past their lives .
You can see them that they're living happier lives . It's pretty clear . So , yo , martin Luther King might have been a fraud . Yeah , what , I'm always getting in trouble . I told you this . I think that's why the motherfuckers , sacroities , got the fucking to charge that he got from the state . You corrupting the youth . You are bad . Listen , I can give you .
Probably , maybe I can come up with an example where individuals that were about that life were about that life . Maybe Gandhi it was about that life .
There's no like what you're saying .
Watch that movie , gandhi , bro you did watch it .
I did watch it . It was about that life .
Yeah , he was not willing to eat . No , not only eat , but like he also translated that into his relationship . You remember those scenes .
Not that I probably have three watched .
We watched those scenes and when his wife is like yo , let's put a pause on this , he said yo , sit down . He fucking broke it down to her , he scolded her , he was ready to be done , she followed .
Yeah , you're saying serious things , listen .
No you said the shit . No , you're saying this .
Not accusations , but what you're saying is you can't if you discover philosophy right .
Through the craft or the field that you're in . It's inevitable .
You're inevitable . You're going to either forever . Forever , yes , so you reach that . It's anywhere in your life , yeah , or the gig is out .
Not that you're , you're a fraud .
But if you decide you want to go on the journey of the philosophy route , you have to apply it everywhere in your life , for the rest of your life .
But does Mike have this antenna sticking out of his head , right ?
now You're right , you're right and at the end of the day , it's just like we just broke everything down right .
There are certain cases and there are times where , in certain fields in our life , we don't get it right and there's a reason why we don't really get it right is because we're not about our life , Because if we really know something , ultimately it ought to touch everything in all parts of our lives .
That's what I'm saying , like you can't , but , mike , I think that still , that's part of being human , and that we're striving towards that and we should get there , oh yeah . I mean , if you believe this , yeah this should not discount the efforts of MLK right , martin Luther King . It should not discount those efforts . It should not discount them .
And again , I think I took a shot of OSHO before too the same way . They're like look , you know what I mean the reason , the outcomes became the outcomes . You know what I mean . And like this doesn't mean that you're enlightened . I think enlightened is a hard , great judge against . Like I said , you know what I mean .
If you're really enlightened , you shouldn't have had the outcomes that he did have , you know , in the process that he did go through . You know what I mean , but nonetheless he probably did a lot of good things . I didn't study him to really know . You could know a lot of not being enlightened .
In a way , everybody's a fraud , right ? Because if you're not enlightened , you're a fraud . If you're practicing philosophy and you're fucking up , you're a fraud , and that's a good title .
And that's a good , humble title to give everybody , because we all are working in progress in different areas of our lives , because today you're not a dad , next month you're a dad .
But it's not like the Bible or just religion , right , like man is sinners , right , yeah , all people are sinners .
I just don't know what context they have it in them .
But you might not agree with the context that they put it in .
Yeah , but I think the concept there is correct is that we all again , unless you're enlightened , you're going to do some wrong .
The thing is again are you a sinner if you're ignorant ? No , socrates doesn't think so . No , yeah . He says no one knowingly does wrong . Explain that no one knowingly does wrong . Does that exalt you from responsibility ?
It's not going to stop you from getting locked up , but yeah , In society sure .
In society , sure , but in the long , but at the end of the day , right Thing . Hey , you didn't know any better . Yeah . You thought this was the best thing and you took that route . Oh , it happens to be wrong .
Absolutely . I think if you're on the journey of , you know , self-discovery , self-improvement , you're going to be in jail all the time . You know , yeah , in your own jail . In your own jail , because this is the natural process of it yeah . You know like we're learning and we're progressing . Yeah , that's right . You know in different areas at different times .
You know , you never know what you're going to unpack you won't know . You're going to unpack it , you know . You could be under the wrong impression for 30 , 40 , 50 , 70 years of your life . What do you mean ? A couple of lifetimes . Yeah well , if you believe in that , if you believe in that , then it could be a couple of lifetimes . Yeah for sure .
Whatever it takes , I think yeah .
So what's the conclusion , mike ? What's the conclusion ? Are you saying anything or not ?
And also , I remember Mike had two points . I was only answering one . What was the second point ? Wow , no , no , I remember there was two , there was two and they all remember .
The second one was yeah , I remember , I can't remember . It's been a while we got away off topic .
Yeah , we definitely did . I mean , I think we I mean , look , if you look at it from a Right now , maybe it's hard to kind of wrap it all together , but I think , if you look at it , zoom out a little bit . I think it makes sense . That makes perfect sense . You know , again , curiosity be curious , don't make .
Try not to stay away from making statements about the world , about reality , right , about yourself , about others . Right . You probably will be in good shape , right . And the good question I totally pose is like hey , hey , hey , hey , you know what I mean . How do you genuinely become curious , right ?
Like , how do you actually be really interested in the things that you're interested in ? You know what I mean ? In order for it to become almost a second nature , natural flow of like hey , hey , hey , you know , I don't know what I bought in , but I bought in . I'm not , I'm just doing it , I'm just living in now .
I have no choice in the matter , I don't think anymore .
Yeah , and that's probably that's the question that I was asking . Essentially is like how do you get onto the highway ? You know at the right place , that you're going the right way in the right direction . Is there or is there a place ? Yeah , is there a right entrance .
Do you think that there's any shadows ? Just thinking about it ? Again , I have no clue if this is the actual reality , obviously , or maybe it is . Is it possible ?
When it comes to genuine curiosity , right , is it a matter of you being curious and interested about a particular subject and maybe have some unexplainable , maybe like , let's say , feelings towards it and it develops into a very heightened or what we would call genuine state , when you Like .
It's almost like a finding of the soul's process , when you find the right teacher that like the key fits yeah , and then like , it's kind of like , if you think of Peaceful Warrior , for example .
Movie .
Yeah , movie right . Like Dan Milman in that movie right . Like he could have just been like you know , your typical whatever , let's say like Jack or whatever , and maybe he had some curiosity or maybe some things .
But he met the right person that could challenge him in a very particular stern way that worked well for him that he was looking for this whole life .
Well , I think it's the right person , but I think also is the right time , right , if you're . I think the way that at least in the movie was portrayed , he was suffering , right , he couldn't sleep at night . He had this , you know , on paper perfect life , like he self-described as well , but he wasn't sleeping at night .
So I think it's you know , the elder I think uses it's always like are you happy or are you suffering ? Those are two good gauges to say like , hey , what's going on with you ? And I think , because that Milman was suffering , he was open to be here because he was facing problems .
You know , he was going through a shitty situation and he couldn't sleep and he was stressed out . I didn't know what to do . So I think Sack appeared , you know whoever Sack was , in the right time for him to be open to that . But I wonder if it was any random other teacher , it would have worked .
You asking the chicken or the egg question bro . Yeah , I don't know .
That's what I just thought about . Yeah , if you're open to learn , can you learn you know from anybody .
I would not be the way I am without you guys , and I don't think you will be the way you are without me . I think it's a symbiotic relationship with those two things yeah , what comes first and what influences the other . That's up to the fucking universe .
They're talking about next level things .
Yeah , yeah , am I the way I am because of the way you are and vice versa ? And I think , to some degree , I believe , that the world is the way it is because of the way you are . No , yeah , the application of how it all turns out . Who's empowered .
I think that ties to something you said earlier is I think that's the way it's supposed to be , I think it's supposed to be . We have a symbiotic thing where we need each other to help each other to humility bounce the other out you know things like that .
Yeah , I think we do . I think it's created unbelievably perfect .
If you tap into it , it's unbelievably perfect yeah .
If you come to realize a little bit . Yeah , it's unbelievably perfect . You know what I'm saying , so like you have to admire that .
I think the admiration can lead to a curiosity as well , a genuine one .
It could . It comes to with a level of humility Like oh shit . This small fuck is perfect . And what are we talking about ? We're talking about God , the all knowing , all good Right , oh , perfect . Right . The admiration to what this fucking thing and the way it's structured to be fitting the way .
It's fitting Well , the way I , when you said the way I , you know , thought about it . I tied it back into curiosity because you realize that every like we're meant right To learn from each other people individually , in general as well , yeah , we're meant , like , to help each other to learn from each other .
And if you come in right like , with that acceptance and that curiosity mindset , you kind of you know , you can come in and be like , hey , I don't know this person , but I'm curious to hear what they have to say . And you open to hear it .
And I think you know , without jumping to a conclusion or anything , you can , yeah , understand that everybody has something to offer .
Everybody knows something that we might not know , something good you know that they can help to share with us or teach us , you know , in our time , but we always looking for that field , where , in that field , in the specific field that they're good at .
You know what I'm saying ? Because a lot of times , a lot of the people , I think they talk about fields most of the time right , Mm-hmm , they come to you and they say , oh , what do you do for work ? Mm-hmm , oh , I do this . Okay , I'm interested how much money you make . Mm-hmm , oh , wow , mm-hmm , you know tell me more .
Mm-hmm , you know that's a field , right , yeah , basketball . I'm going to play basketball right now . You know People say hi to me that I've never seen before Mm-hmm , that I don't remember saying hi to Mm-hmm Because I'm good at it .
Maybe right , but now I'm naturally have a gravity towards those individuals and those individuals have gravity towards me to teach them , or they are more learned from me and stuff like that To help them be better . Yeah , yeah . You know what I mean . So I think it's that process . That's very .
That relationship is very interesting .
Yes , it is very interesting .
Especially that we described it where you don't even know the people yeah , but they look to you as like , hey , I can learn something from him , I can become better yeah , which I think is a huge thing . You know , that's a good example . That made sense a lot .
You know , like I've never seen myself as a basketball teacher , mm-hmm , let's just say Mm-hmm . You know what I mean . I'm not a basketball teacher , I'm a basketball player . Yeah , I've associated myself for all this time as a basketball player .
Yeah , but I know , and I feel the looks that I do from the individuals that , like you know , tell me something that I need to be doing . Mm-hmm , I feel that Mm-hmm , and that's a teaching appointment that I'm getting . Mm-hmm . It's not a basketball player . I'm a basketball player , mm-hmm . I know what to do . I know why I do it , how to do it .
I enjoy doing it . Mm-hmm , I don't know what the fuck to do how to teach basketball .
But you know , we know it's funny Mm-hmm . And in , for example , professional basketball , like at the high college level or MBA level , lots of times they say that like the best point cards become the best coaches . Oh really , yeah , mm-hmm , like Jason Kidd was a really good point card .
Is that statistically proven ? What Is that statistically proven ? I ?
don't know if it's , I don't know if it's statistically proven , but people , like , as he was getting older , were like , oh , he's definitely going to be a good coach . Oh , okay , or like Steve Nash , or like Steve Kerr , even though they might have not known at that time . Mark Jackson , yeah , yeah , yeah , yeah .
You know Okay .
Like they , they , they say that like there are certain qualities of being a point guard , Like specific that position that like a center doesn't have . And what are we talking about ? Like floor awareness , yeah . Knowing what's going on , making the right play yeah , those are all transferable things that are important in coaching .
Yeah , so you have to see what's going on .
You multitasking Know ?
how to use players . Yeah , the point guard knows where to hit who . Yeah , at the time .
At the right time . Yeah , exactly .
So I'm not . I'm not saying all like in general , like I don't know if Russell Westbrook is going to be a good coach , Probably not Because he wasn't a very good point guard . It wasn't a very good point guard .
Yeah .
So , like they'll often say that someone who's really good , yeah , all those skills could translate towards that role . Oh , I didn't know that . Yeah , that's interesting . Yeah , like you don't usually see , like centers you're not going to see . Like Kevin Garnett , yeah . Or like Shaq , like they're not going to be a good coach .
They see a team from a different perspective .
They see a different perspective . Yeah , they look for maybe within . Well , though , jason Kidd looks from without . Yeah , yeah .
And it's also like , if you're good , a lot of times it's an unselfish position . Right , you're trying to get others to be better , to be better . Others to be in the spotlight , stuff like that . Yeah , lots of times . That's how coaching is too Mm-hmm Right . Coaches when teams are good , all the players get all the credit .
When teams are bad , the coaches get all the blame . Really , that's how it works . Oh , okay , like right now the Bucks hired a new coach . They have Lillard , yanis , stuff like that . If stuff doesn't work out there , no one's going to fire Lillard and Yanis . Yeah . They're going to fire the coach , coach , you can't figure it out how to make it work .
But when they're doing well , they're going to be like oh , you got a Hall of Fame player . Yeah Right , yes , you got this right . People talk shit about Phil Jackson .
Oh , no , no , no . You had Kobe , you had Jordan . Those are cash , bro . They don't understand chemistry bro .
Well , yeah , those are cash . Yeah , yeah , they're going to be like oh , he had Jordan and Pippin and Kobe and Shaq . He had only the best players . That's why he won those titles .
No , no , no . It's a huge effort to get him . Well , that's what I'm saying .
When you're bad , all the blame goes to the coach always . That's why it's a very like , almost like selfless , like roll Right .
Yeah , that is interesting . So what are we saying ? Are we saying anything ? Are we making any conclusions here ? Mike extract something from this , bro . We said a lot .
We extracted that we're not making conclusions . I think . Even when you're asking for conclusions that is a good point .
That's a conclusion on the nonconclusion thing , yeah , that we should not make conclusions yeah , so it's really nothing .
I didn't say anything .
You said a lot . Yeah , no , this is huge . Yeah , if you took this and make this your Bible , you understand ? Oh no , no , no he doesn't get it right .
No , he doesn't get any he's an A form .
He's an A form . Hey , if you do this , you go to heaven .
You know what I said in Boris voice , though I don't know yeah , like a retard , yeah , no , like I said , like I think that making , not making conclusions and keeping things open ended right , which then allows you to be curious , which then allows you to be humble , which then allows you to get knowledge , which then allows you to be free of suffering , is the
path to fucking victory here .
Yeah . So I was just thinking about what I was telling you earlier today , about the thing like I went to lunch and I set the intention to be aware of one thing , but then the other thing snuck in from behind me . That thing is here or no , that thing is here . Yeah , that thing is here . That thing might be sharing the same couch with you .
So I think the curiosity , maybe in a way , it's tied like hey , maybe the intention . Like hey , I'm curious . What's going to happen here ? Let me be more aware . Yeah , whereas like hey , I know this is going to happen , it prevented me from also seeing the full picture . Yes , I was only able to see a little portion of it .
Yes , and I think that might be interesting too . That is interesting .
Now you have to commingle the two . Yeah , are you going to share what happened ?
Yeah , oh no , it wasn't actually an example , it happened a few weeks ago . Yeah , yeah , I don't remember where it started . Yeah .
That you understand his curiosity from before . Look here oh yeah , my bad , I was reading that wrong . Yeah , good point . Right , you're a point . Yeah , again , you were operating out of like yeah , I got this .
I was under one impression . Yeah , you know , but it's again , it's telling me like hey , so how about this ?
How about this ? Oh shit , this might be crazy . For next week , if you remember this Okay . I mean , yeah , it is , that's the answer . Okay , crazy .
Are you going to fucking fill me in or are you just fucking like leave ?
me here with fucking the balls . Yeah , hold on one second . I forgot it , bro , wow .
Can you film me in on the situation ?
I forgot the fucking thing . It was fucking so good Really . Mike say it again Say the shit again and get what you're saying I was tying the example of what example ?
The example that me and other know , what example Of you guys going to lunch together . Me and you went to lunch together . Yeah , you know , you fucker , today , yesterday , okay , and I was coming in there with one intention , yeah , to be aware of one thing .
Oh , my God , you know , and because I was concentrated on that thing , I got him hugged by another thing and I thought that was very funny . So what were you concentrating ?
on . It was beats . You liked these .
You understand a little appreciation of the beats right yeah , why don't you drag ?
it out a little bit , like he usually fucking does . You want to like lead on to it like a nice build up .
Yeah , tell me what you ate last week and the week before Something to lean , yeah , so tell them , tell them Go ahead .
No , I was coming in there , right yeah , to be aware of my interaction with you , of what Of like , to not overshare , to not get myself in trouble , okay yeah , while I'm interacting with you , right yeah , you know , and I came in with that , I was focusing on that . This is gonna be crazy , this is gonna be like yo , this is retarded .
But I came in there , I had a pizza . It was wild If I came in there and I got ham hugged by the food . You ham hugged me into eating pizza , into eating the pizza . Eating more than I wanted . Eating more than I wanted yeah .
So , like you know , I'm making the awareness to be conscious of how I'm eating and what I'm eating , but because I was so concentrated on one thing , I wasn't able to focus on the other thing .
It was so sick when he presented it , it was so good . Do you understand what you fucking did ? You fuckhead ?
What do you mean ? I made him do exactly what he wanted .
He doesn't want to do any of this . You see , he's your .
Achilles , heel he knows which buttons to press . He does . Yeah , no , he's just pressing his own buttons , yeah .
He's just reflecting on you . That's what he thinks .
Again , he thinks that he's an intersex schoolgirl Squirrel , squirrel , yeah , yeah , yeah .
Oh , I could definitely eat , for sure . You had half a pie , I had half a pie .
Are you serious , yeah ?
Fuck shit .
I'm gonna throw one more variable at it .
He's talking blaming me Keet more of the pizza than I did . That's what he said . Yeah , because of you . Because of you Again , you could blame whatever external variables you want .
Yeah .
Right , I don't know how many , I think it was six slices in the pie . Wow , I had two , he had four . No , I had two , he had two . And afterwards he took off all the toppings , off the last two with the cheese , and ate them all and left it just fucking bright . That's disgusting .
And then you blame it on me . You ate more than me .
Yeah , I just picture this Because of you , though .
that's what happened Sure because of me .
Yeah , no , he tied that very well together .
But regardless of how it is .
Again , it's just how you prefer to look at things .
That's all . It is Sure . In this example you can say that , but I'm saying in general , when you come in there with one thing , you're trying to be kind of conscious of one thing , you don't see the other things are happening . That's the same thing . You're talking about a point guard .
A point guard , he can see multiple angles , all different things happening at once , five different players on one team , five different players in the other team . Right , who's going where ? Who's going there ? He's able to see all these things and make certain decisions , whereas I was playing one by myself against five . You're a center bro . I was a center bro .
I had no fucking ability to pass or nothing . I could just barely do a layup yeah .
And rebound .
And there's people shooting threes on your head .
That's the point , not being able to see the full picture .
He said you overwhelmed him with pizza , bro .
He's an idiot . He's like this , overwhelmed , he went for the pizza . That's what I'm saying . That's what I'm saying . Yeah , what was it ? Someone went in to do a particular like mental exercise and left a fat ass yeah .
Yeah .
That's so funny . Yeah , holy shit . Yeah , it's humbling 100% . Yeah , you know .
When you first said , I was like holy shit , that was very funny that was funny .
Yeah , yeah , all right , so did you remember ?
where your epiphany was , bro . The epiphany was enlightening and I think and then now I got another different epiphany that the aligning parts that we say out loud right . The white parts . The enlightening words that we say out loud , right , and if understood by many within that moment and make you feel a certain type of way about it .
Right , if there's truth behind it , if it's universal and it's felt within those souls , right Of individuals , in the proper way , that it does something good good , let's just say beneficial is almost an indicator that you are using proper logic in order to explain reality for what it is .
Because if each soul carries within itself truth of the world , of the universe , of everything , and the things that we say out loud resonate with those souls , it is an indication , right , that that what you're saying is true .
This or no , I think , like felt , truth and guarantees have an impact .
Yeah , yeah , guaranteed to have an impact . That's what I thought of . This was still not that . This was the bottom of that , of the thought you forgot . Yeah , the thought that I forgot about , yeah .
Which you still don't remember .
I don't remember it . It was as bright as it could be , and then it was gone In regards to what , though , like what ? Type this topic that we're talking about . That I had a really good thought that I wanted to share , to see the whole picture and extract the conclusion off of it .
It was tied with curiosity , yes . Humility , yes , okay .
Yes , curiosity and humility is almost the gateway to heaven , like that kind of statement . You know what I'm saying , that it is almost everlasting . Well , yeah , because everlasting thing to happiness like bliss not stop . I guess it's you understand like this is like I was going , really like there .
If you're operating out of curiosity , right Versus operating out of like you come in with a preconceived notion or some kind of ? Like you know , attachment to an idea or an outcome . If you're curious , can you ? If you're curious and you stay curious , can you ? I feel like that's like almost like the outcome . Right , I was like I don't know .
Is it like hard to fail here ?
No , you cannot fail . That's what I'm saying .
You're not going to be upset because you're coming in there curious and you don't know what to expect If you , like you said , genuine curiosity is tied to humility .
you know what I'm saying . That is happiness . This is what I'm trying to connect to . I'm trying to find the right words and that's why I'm trying to also . Then I went to that . I was trying to find the right words to be able to say it in such a way that it made sense .
I understand what you're saying , yeah . But I think you understand my gist , I think , yeah , I'm , I'm , I'm understanding it , just by can't put it together like , yeah , I was trying to make a conclusion of everything that we try to say package it and make it a thing .
Yeah , Hmm , the the curiosity leads to something very , very special yes , If you , if you yes if you genuinely curious if you comment on all the directions , if you really want to know because you don't know .
Not , it's not one of those like grimy things . You know where you're like . Yeah , like just tell me , just tell me like I just want to get to a place where I want to get to . You know what I mean . It's okay , there you go . It's an open ended curiosity .
Open ended yeah .
So the link is okay tell me so I can know more and ask more questions afterwards , versus tell me so . I can stop right there . Yes , that that that that chain is leads to enlightenment and continuation of happiness . Yes , the difference . Does that understood , mm-hmm ? Okay , yeah , that's what I wanted to say . Is that a very big difference ?
Oh yeah , it's huge .
You understand .
Yeah Well , one way you're never going to know .
You're never going to know , but you keep wanting , so it's an ongoing pursuit of knowledge . Yeah .
It's because one one , one way , you have the idea of what no looks like . The other way just wants to find out .
Yeah . You know , and it doesn't know it doesn't know .
Yeah , like , inherently , the other way , it like knows and it just like , like , yeah , it feels like it knows . So it's just like just tell me this , that's it .
And that's right , that's right , it's fake .
That's what it wants to find out . Yeah , which yeah is a forever , and I think that's why the kids have what they have .
Mm-hmm , right , what do they have ? What time is it ? When is it when the kid's like yo Mom , why is this ? Why is that the questioning phase ?
right .
Let me Google it If you guys don't know . Mm-hmm , right , kids have a very specific time in their lives and when they go through this phase questioning phase and kids , genuine curiosity Todd was in it . Look what they said , right , genuine curiosity .
Toddlers are innately and unendingly curious about the world and want to better understand the things that they see , hear and do . The constant stream of questions is just a step towards the toddler learning . And your questioning kid really just wants to learn .
You see that , right , he just constantly wants to learn more and more and more and more about the world and the reality that he's experiencing . So he's gonna have genuine curiosity because he actually doesn't know . There's no ego to know .
No ego to know that's good .
The stages from ages from two to seven years old . Pretending and asking questions occurs during the pre-operational stage of development according to the PJ's model , the stages from the ages of two to seven years old . Let's see . And what again ? What do we know about happiness right ? Or the clues that we've gotten through thinking ?
Oh , you know , kids are the happiest right when you have no responsibilities , when you're just genuinely curious and going on adventures . Mm-hmm you want them to know . Mm-hmm . And are we not most happiest when we feel like we're kids right now by having lots of fun and doing shit ?
That's , let's just say , it's not even defined for you to do during the stage of your life , like gaming at 40 years old ? What Are you crazy ? You have no responsibilities . We're going back to gaming . Why ? Because that game provides a genuine curiosity of things it's never ending flow of . I want to know . So do you guys say something ?
No , no , so what was my question ?
Well , you had another question . You were just saying kids with curiosity and a lot of happiness .
Yeah , when we associate ourselves with that , hey , we got to go back to being kids . You know what I mean . And then when we're in relationships , we become mushy , the kids you know , with dogs we create what Baby sounds . Right . With babies . We create baby sounds . We have that inside of us . That is probably yearning to go back . For what ?
The reason why we want to go back is because that's where the fucking shit is . That's where the fucking , the true , genuine happiness is Years they say years two to seven . Right , when you're genuinely curious and want to actually find out , without ego , without any perceived conclusions or a horse in the race . You just want to know . I got to read Aristotle .
I want to see what he said about happiness . He had a whole big thing and I'll have a good reason as to why . I wonder if he ties this to it . I wonder how he ties curiosity to happiness .
Aristotle was a student of Plato .
Yeah , and Plato was a student of Socrates , so I got to . I never wrote ?
And who was Socrates' student of Nobody .
Socrates was appointed by the oracle as the wisest man in Athens at the time .
Who was the oracle ?
The oracle was like a the one I'd bend it . Yeah , so you go to this person right and she's like the witch , yeah yeah , yeah . The local witch or whatever in the good sense , right when she's like under this trance and she kind of speaks in riddles and all this other shit , but you know says the future and all this other stuff .
Is that what Tommy is now ?
Is he an oracle ?
He speaks in riddles . He just speaks in riddles , but he doesn't predict the future .
But she kind of like calls it for what it is . Let's just say , yeah , the oracle appointed or predicted or whatever you want to say that Socrates was the wisest man in Athens at the time and he's like wait what ? So you went and tried to find out .
So his curiosity .
His curiosity for wanting to find out like why am I ?
the person . No , I'm saying is curiosity . I know that I know nothing .
No , that's a statement , but is that a reflection of ?
curiosity . It's a key to unlocking the ignorance Like key to unlocking the ignorance You're showing , that you're very curious .
That's your key . No , no , no , that's just showing that . Not that you necessarily curious , but you're acknowledging the fact it's given you an opportunity to be curious that's giving you like a , like you know , doesn't mean that you're going to be able to practice it in all facets of your life .
But I'm saying with the way he used it . I wonder if he knew about the curiosity .
He fucking knew it . He knew something bro .
Yeah , she probably appointed him because she felt that he was the most curious person Possibly . Yeah .
Possibly .
He did ask very good questions always .
Well , yeah , he then he asked you almost like he's like yo . What's going on here , like why , why this , why that ?
She knew that he was , he was , she would send them on his kind of journey . He was a pest .
Yeah , he was a pest . He was known to be a pest , yeah , and I was when I was reading his text I remember in philosophy class , and then I was reflecting on it , like after the philosophy class , after Paul X team was explaining all the shit to me , I would drive back and turn . Epiphanies will come to me .
I was like holy shit , I couldn't believe this , I couldn't believe this . And one stuck with me when he said the immortality of the soul . I realized like in the moment of my reflection , one time I was like yo , anybody could be Socrates .
You know he might be in his room .
He might be , but probably not , not yet . Not Arch , yeah , he , I don't know . Maybe possibly no . I'm not sure if he would suffer from ear infections .
That's true , you know yeah .
Yeah , so it was very interesting to me to think that , taking a spot at him , what he understood , what he understood in order to be able to reincarnate himself , right , immortality of the soul through knowledge , right , and that was fascinating to me . So , so , mike , make some conclusion or something .
I can't make conclusions .
You can't make conclusions because of what you learned apparently .
But I will still make conclusions , but I can't make them anymore .
Okay , that's a little getaway thing . You like getaway cars Like , just in case I can just slip away through this crack .
No , I think that's realistic . I mean , I'm not saying like I'm gonna give up and not gonna try it . I'm gonna make my best effort not to make conclusions , but also know I'm gonna slip up for sure .
That's that thing , that's honest , and that's that thing that's self love . Acceptance of that Totally . Say something , bro . This whole time you said absolutely nothing . You know . You rambled , fucking away , confusing the fuck out of us , making me forget my statement .
How did I make you forget your statement ?
You probably did . You just looked at him and you forgot oh shit . He said he had to put the stare on me .
Yeah , yeah , I would say that , like everything we spoke about leads me to , like you know , trying to have a stronger desire , trying to have a . I'm gonna go full . Oh shit , full handheld . I like that . Buddies that are . Yeah . Yeah , yeah , I feel like everything we spoke about leads me to Desiring , I guess , to . I guess .
I try to try to pay it , to pay more attention in each moment and get to a place where I can put more and more value on each moment and not allow myself to be ignorant and try to skip over things , or stuff like that .
So would this be an example of you being too hard on yourself , cause like that's a fucking sick task , which you just said , or a conclusion , or maybe a wish ?
Well , no , I was saying that one thing that came to my mind , which I forgot , obviously because . But what'd you say ?
Like what the hell is that .
You fucking interrupted us . Yeah , you interrupt something , yeah , and then forget all you want to say .
I'll remember it , just say it one more time .
No , don't say nothing . I'm not gonna say no , let him suffer now .
Yeah , and this fucking shit . Oh fine , you were being too hard on yourself , he's trying to replicate this bitch Fuck happened .
I was gonna make some shit up .
There was no way .
Yeah , there's no way . We're getting that thought out there . No way , right no ?
way I would not give him no clue .
Look at him . Look at him . He's eating up right now . He's like a little teapot Short and stout .
Mike , forget about it . You got to let go of this , no .
He's trying to squeeze his one out . He is .
He's bad , holy shit . All right guys , totally .
What the ? Fuck were you saying what the fuck .
I've never seen someone interrupt somebody to say Dude to say I forgot what I was gonna say what the hell , this is a sick as fuck joke bro . Holy shit .
That was pretty funny . What ? What ? Can't get your tongue ? Yeah . He said yeah , can't get your tongue , totally Can't get your tongue . No , no , yeah , no , no , I'm not saying that like I'm always he's about to rub your watch . Look at him , he's constantly- . Now , when he thinks about it , he can't say it now right .
No , no , no , no , no , no , no . When he thinks about it , he can't say it now , right , yo Imagine .
It's gonna be like what's his name ? That movie Got Almighty or what , what you care ? Bruce Almighty , yeah , yeah , yeah , you wanna remember he wanted to talk and he can't yeah . Yeah , it's like yo , what the fuck . Yeah , he's gonna be like that right now . Yeah , like yeah .
He knows the thought , but he's saying gibberish yeah . He's sick .
Yeah , that would be sick . Yeah , I can't , I can't .
Yeah , yeah , no , no , I definitely don't think I can live up to doing that all the way Are you being heartiest on yourself here .
Well , no , by setting yourself up to that Like saying , hey , I wish I could do this , no .
No , I'm saying that , like I definitely have a desire to try to capture more , more , more moments so that I have less moments of being an ape , okay , fine . Fine .
Yeah , I remembered it , but it doesn't sound as good anymore . Okay , so my thought was what questions ? Do you need to ask , like he's saying he's making a statement , right , yeah , like what questions do you need to ask yourself to see if you really are about like that life , before you can make that statement , like before you can say like , hey , I know .
I mean , like we're gonna say like , hey , I'm gonna fucking be more curious . Yeah , how do you know that you , like I actually want to do this ? And like , why , if you're convinced , convinced of it , like how do you know this is actually something that you can do and this is something that's very important to do , well .
Well , I think , I guess in my case , because I know what happens when when I'm not , you know .
Yeah , he already has tested this on himself , probably plenty of times to know that like look if I skip the moment , I know what the after effects are .
I know what happens , like I know .
I feel like do you have good enough reasons , then , to execute this ? That's , that's the question . Do you have ? Good enough reasons that you actually gonna do this .
That's , that's what I was going to ask , I'm already , I'm already doing it .
Okay , by bringing awareness . I think he is doing it . I think he is doing it .
Yeah , I'm not only saying to you in general , but I'm saying in the general thing when people make these kind of statements , make statements or anything , yeah , I think it's important to ask yourself do you have good enough reasons to do the things you're going to do , or say the things you're going to do ? I mean , do the things you're going to .
You're saying Uh huh , yeah , you know , I think that can help you to kind of get to that's why I'm saying that .
That's why I asked the question that I asked Mike . I said , hey , are you being too hard on yourself here ? Because you know , obviously it'd be nice to always be able to control the moments and be in the moment and feel the moment , ask all the good questions , be curious and all that stuff and learn , you know . But it's a hard task .
That's why I'm asking him whether or not he's being a little bit unfair to himself , because I think he tends to be a lot of times setting himself for a lot of tough tasks . Right , and I think it ties to your question as to like , how do you actually know that you're going to do that ?
Yeah , like do you have enough of a good reason to be those hard on yourself ? Because if you actually examine it , you don't have a like virtuously speaking you don't have a backbone . No , I'm not saying that , but I do agree with that . Okay , but it's like uh , yeah , you can't even set up for for half an hour you interrupted somebody to say nothing .
Yeah , oh by the way , yeah , yeah . So I think that's important , like that question , like , uh , or that statement , whatever how you want to phrase it if you have the good enough reasons . Because if you say yes , then what do you like ? I guess , what do you challenge you ? Those reasons up against is the truth .
Because now , if you're saying , like , if you're being too hard on yourself , are you being kind to yourself , being patient with yourself or being realistic ? That's , if you're saying , if you're saying no to those , then you don't have a good enough reason , because should your reasons not be a ruling truth If you'd like to succeed and do it the right way ?
Yeah . That's what came to mind Totally .
Well , yeah , I mean , I think my , my reasons are and I feel like , um , this is something that I feel like I have been working on for a long time , but yeah , I just want to continue , basically , uh , to do , and I definitely think I do have good reasons because I think , from a logical perspective , um , I don't think they can be disproved because they do
align with the truth you know .
So if you have the good reasons , then and and you thoroughly like , went to the core of understanding those reasons then shooting the action to follow would be much simpler . That's a Mike you asking another good question , bro .
You almost saying like hey , isn't it obvious , bro ? Yeah .
So , so what is what I'm saying ?
That's that's . My challenge is like hey , if you research this enough , you know the reasons , you know why you should be doing this to the core . How about this ? You went deep as possible , Sure .
I'll give you the thing how about ? We'll talk about pain , and we're going to have to talk about pain ? Sure , is the pain to do something about it greater or less than the pain of not doing something about it that you've been doing for a while ?
Yeah , that's interesting .
Who's perceiving it Right In the moment ? Yeah , my question was posed to individuals who are thinking right . Who should say , no , it's not bro . Development is a good thing . It's not painful .
But then I guess , when the ego looks at it but what you're saying then is also like , that person who's making that statement is , in a way , egotistical because he doesn't have an idea of what that scope really entails . That's right . And he's making the statement out of blind ignorance or whatever it could be . You know it could .
It doesn't have to be to your scenario . I'm just saying in a general thing , that's what I'm thinking about . Therefore , there's a lack of action ?
Well , it would need to be looked at in a case by case .
Yeah , yeah and again those kind of statements . They also take away the curiosity because you already think you know . So it's like you don't have enough reasons and your reasons might not be good enough . Therefore , you can't act and you're already convinced that you know everything , yeah , and you're not curious about finding out .
So I think it's like a double fuck here .
Yeah .
I think it's like you know , that's why people don't act , maybe in certain scenarios , because they probably don't have enough good enough reasons and , like you said , the pain is too hard .
That's a huge one .
The pain is huge . You'll have to talk about that . Yeah , that's huge , yeah .
What else , if not pain ? Right , if you said , hey , the easiest path to victory is to go play video games what I love , video games , of course . Got it done . Go change the floor and change the tile . Break this , we do it . Make sure everything's straight . Wait , what Not doing that it's for the greater good ?
I'm not sure you go against that challenge of you thinking that it might be more painful , even though it is humbling , it is for the greater good . Yeah . It's for development and everything else .
Yeah , that's why I think we go back to Toli's maybe first or second episodes from here Number one , number two , number three probably where he said that the giver is the taker and the taker is actually the giver . A lot of people don't understand that If you're giving somebody a ride , you're doing them a favor , taking them to the airport .
You under an impression that you're actually doing them a favor by taking them , but in a sense of virtual land quote unquote . It is the giver that is actually the taker in that moment .
Yeah , because he's taking the ability to be humbled . That's right .
Well , he's getting the opportunity to be humbled to do the right thing .
Yeah , he's getting the opportunity to tune into virtues , that's right .
Yeah , but nobody looks at it like that . It's a complete reverse roles , right , like what the fuck ? You know what I mean ? I'm gonna get on the ride . It's a very interesting take , but that came from episode three or four giver and taker . Yeah , I remember that , yeah . Yeah , I remember that .
So I think that ego , right to make my kind of maybe conclusive statements , is probably a magician that has the ability to try to , you know , to pull a trick on us a lot of the times . So nicely he thinks for what they are a lot of the times and make this illusion that this is what it is versus what it's what you know .
And I hope maybe job right now is to reason , logic , humility , right , Curiosity and those things to arm ourselves right . Yeah . To be able to then combat that , because we understand now through reasoning , right Through logic , that those states when we're not aware cause us suffering and we're not happy . We don't like the outcomes that come our way , you know .
So do we fucking hammer the fuck out of this topic ? Yeah , that's good . Well , do people understand it ? Chatham's like you gotta dumb it down , won't she listen to it ? She's like they're not gonna understand it . You're not supposed to . You're not supposed to right and notice . You understand .
You probably have to go up to episode one and do all the episodes .
Which I guess is pretty humbling , oh shit .