Vemir [00:00:00]:
On this week's episode, we have people.
Eldar [00:00:02]:
In our lives that say, I'm gonna do this in my life, right? Set this goal or that goal, and you look at them like, okay, cool. Yeah, you a bullshitter. You know what I mean?
Vemir [00:00:10]:
Remember we talked about dating or whatever, but it's like, even in any context, platonic context. Like, why are you looking at her nippies?
Eldar [00:00:17]:
Why you say this?
Vemir [00:00:18]:
What's that?
Eldar [00:00:19]:
Oh, I'm sorry.
Vemir [00:00:20]:
The thing is, like, I want people to accept me for who I am now. Right, but that's a tall order.
Katherine [00:00:26]:
That's.
Eldar [00:00:27]:
Yeah, but why?
Katherine [00:00:28]:
And you can't control it?
Vemir [00:00:29]:
Because I've done so much work to be myself.
Katherine [00:00:33]:
We can't control.
Eldar [00:00:48]:
My phone started jumping. What a day. Swear to God, I need it now I can't afford to wait. I just had a fan hit me up from Kuwait, told him, this will happen, and we not admit. Seen them down bad now they trying to hate same ones trying to hit me for the race got a man now they coming with a place. I'm a don, just like a perrier.
Eldar [00:01:13]:
Listen, a big hundred.
Katherine [00:01:15]:
Oh, really?
Eldar [00:01:16]:
100 episode.
Mike [00:01:17]:
I don't know if it's like probably a hundred, cuz.
Eldar [00:01:21]:
Oh, no, we definitely have more. But, yeah, you know, life 100 live. Correct. Which is, I think, is big. Thank you so much for coming. I think this is also a very good topic, Mike. Let me know if I get it right.
Mike [00:01:32]:
I will try.
Eldar [00:01:33]:
We'd like to talk about very specific thing that happens to, I think, a lot of people.
Sergiy [00:01:38]:
Right.
Eldar [00:01:38]:
That set personal goals for themselves.
Sergiy [00:01:41]:
Right.
Eldar [00:01:42]:
I guess.
Sergiy [00:01:42]:
How do you put it?
Eldar [00:01:43]:
What's the best way to put it? A lot of times we set a personal goal, like, I want to lose weight, I want to be healthier or whatever it is that you want to do. And a lot of the times, we have many more goals that we want to set and that we want to achieve. And a lot of times when we go about, you know, trying to achieve those goals, we don't know when to actually say, like, okay, cool, I actually got this done. This is part of my routine now. I'm good. It's solidified, and I'm ready to move forward to something else, something next.
Sergiy [00:02:09]:
Right.
Eldar [00:02:10]:
Is that kind of the question? Like.
Sergiy [00:02:11]:
Yeah. Yeah, right.
Mike [00:02:13]:
That is the question.
Eldar [00:02:13]:
Yeah, that is the question. When do we actually know that that which we've been working on, whatever it may be, right. Is actually here to stay? It's part of us. It's, uh. Let's just say it's almost part of our character.
Sergiy [00:02:25]:
Right.
Eldar [00:02:25]:
It's no longer like a flip flopping thing that, you know, uh, wishy washy attitude or whatever. You actually have a little bit more consistency now, and you're. And people around you actually identify you for that specific trait. I gave examples like Katherine, right, for example, who was never into yoga.
Sergiy [00:02:43]:
Right?
Eldar [00:02:43]:
Right. Now I think that, you know, at least people in this room, maybe serge, too, notice that she's been doing yoga a lot more consistently so she can start identifying herself as a person who actually enjoys yoga.
Sergiy [00:02:53]:
Right.
Eldar [00:02:54]:
You know, who didn't before? You know, I gave a long time ago example with Mike. I used to go to a gym a lot, and Mike, when Mike was heavier, I used to always invite him to come to the gym with me. And he used to always be a flip flopper. He would never give me a direct answer. Or if he does, if he did give me an answer, he would then bail on me, you know, not calm or whatever, and have some kind of an excuse that he didn't feel good or whatever it was. So he was always flip flopping back and forth on that. Now, I think I identify Mike at least a little bit more than me as a gym goer.
Katherine [00:03:23]:
He's a consistent.
Eldar [00:03:24]:
Now he's consistent gym goer. He actually enjoys it. It's part of his routine. It's part of his life. And now I no longer see or view Mike as a flip flopper that he used to be about Jim.
Sergiy [00:03:34]:
Right?
Eldar [00:03:35]:
So, you know, the question is, when does that turn actually, when does it finally turn into. I guess it's the, like. Like the effect of young plants that are green. When do they become brown?
Sergiy [00:03:46]:
Right?
Eldar [00:03:46]:
They become brown. You're like, okay, this is an actual tree now. It's no longer a small, little sapling.
Sergiy [00:03:51]:
Well, I think it depends on what it is. Like, if it's like, if it's going to the gym, usually they say average, 16 weeks. After that, it just becomes part of you.
Eldar [00:04:00]:
Like, really?
Sergiy [00:04:00]:
Yeah.
Sergiy [00:04:01]:
Until then, you're like, I should go to the gym today or not. But if you're like, eight to 16 weeks, you constantly go. It's like a known number that you will actually enjoy it after that time.
Katherine [00:04:09]:
That's a long time.
Sergiy [00:04:10]:
Yeah.
Sergiy [00:04:10]:
Because you will see the changes in your body, you know, better, feel better, and they're like, okay, now it's a part of you.
Sergiy [00:04:15]:
Okay.
Sergiy [00:04:16]:
And I think it takes maybe eight weeks or something to forget about it. Like, if you stop doing it, for some reason, it's hard to get back into it.
Eldar [00:04:22]:
Again. Okay, that's interesting.
Sergiy [00:04:24]:
Like, because I took it. Every time I have, like, a few years of working out and then something happens, I take time off. It's so much harder for me to get back into it.
Sergiy [00:04:32]:
Yeah.
Sergiy [00:04:32]:
Cause I look back and I was, like, to reach what I was is gonna take a long time.
Eldar [00:04:36]:
You see that identity's gone.
Sergiy [00:04:38]:
Yeah. Now you're like, but what gets me back into it? Sometimes people be like, I see you now, and I saw you before. What happened slowly. Slowly grinds me down. Let me go try. And then, you know, because you go to the gym and, like, you look at yourself, it's like, I'm not the same anymore. Yeah, it's a lot harder. But then again, it takes eight to maybe 16 weeks, and you get back into it again.
Sergiy [00:04:58]:
Okay, so you have to be, like, consistent for eight to 16 weeks. And then you. I think in working out, for me, at least it was. And then I did, like, the research on it. That's what it says. Minimum of eight weeks, going to. Doing something physical for yourself, like going to the gym, maybe even yoga, you are actually going to start enjoying and see differences. Only at that time period.
Sergiy [00:05:17]:
You're not going to see difference in a week.
Sergiy [00:05:18]:
Okay.
Sergiy [00:05:19]:
You're not going to see difference in two weeks. But eight week minimum is.
Eldar [00:05:22]:
All right, so we found the answer to the gym. But how about some of the psychological goals that we make for ourselves? Let's just pick one. That's, for example, you, catherine, setting boundaries with your mom.
Katherine [00:05:35]:
It's so weird. You call me katherine, right, babe?
Sergiy [00:05:38]:
Yeah.
Eldar [00:05:39]:
You know, like, setting boundaries with your mom.
Katherine [00:05:41]:
Oh, yeah.
Eldar [00:05:41]:
Like, psychological ones where, like, hey, I want to rewire the way I respond to my mom when this happens or that happens.
Sergiy [00:05:48]:
Right.
Eldar [00:05:48]:
A lot of the times we'll set those goals, and we were like, oh, yeah, I think we're good here, you know? And then we let down our guard, you know? Then, boom, all of a sudden, we get sideswiped again by the same thing.
Katherine [00:05:57]:
Yeah.
Eldar [00:05:57]:
What? That shows almost like, you're not solidified yet. It's not part of your character yet to be able to respond to it automatically.
Katherine [00:06:05]:
But, you know, it's interesting, the same way that works. It's just like creating the habit of going to the gym for four months, and then it becomes like a new habit. It's the same. It's the same thing. Initially, setting the boundary is extremely hard because it's almost like this identity that you don't, like, connect with. Like, this is not really me. Right. Cause you're a person that has never known how to set a boundary, for example.
Sergiy [00:06:29]:
Right? Yeah.
Katherine [00:06:29]:
And so then when you start implementing it, it's. It's hard. You feel really out of your element. You're really afraid of, like, how that person is gonna respond to it. They're gonna be upset with me. They're gonna get mad at me. And you start, like, you go through all these scenarios, right? And then you finally do it, and you're like, okay, I didn't die. Everything's okay.
Katherine [00:06:49]:
The person's not mad at me. You kind of test the water, and it's like, okay, I think I'm all right, you know? And then the next time, you will get, like, many opportunities, and the next time it happens, you go through the same pattern, and you have to do it many times in order.
Eldar [00:07:04]:
How many?
Katherine [00:07:05]:
To kind of just create almost like a. Like. Then it becomes like you don't really think about it so much. You know what I mean?
Eldar [00:07:12]:
I definitely know what you mean.
Sergiy [00:07:13]:
It's basically like, my luck.
Katherine [00:07:14]:
You're trying. In a sense, you're creating a habit.
Eldar [00:07:17]:
Correct. When you see, we would like to know what it takes to unlock that next level. You're almost saying that.
Katherine [00:07:22]:
What next level?
Eldar [00:07:23]:
Well, this level where you. It becomes automatic for you. And now it's part of your identity and your character. That's your character trait. And now you know how to properly set boundaries, not only with your mom, but all across the board, because you know yourself. Where does the unlocking happen?
Katherine [00:07:37]:
And what do you mean? The unlocking of, like, taking the first step or taking the steps.
Eldar [00:07:42]:
And then when it just happens, that's you second nature. It's like you don't even think about it.
Sergiy [00:07:48]:
Yeah.
Katherine [00:07:48]:
Oh, no. I mean, the hard work happens before that, where you have to, you know, whether it's the gym, you got to, you know, get off your butt.
Sergiy [00:07:55]:
She wants to push yourself, know, when do you think it happens?
Sergiy [00:07:58]:
Like, after.
Sergiy [00:07:58]:
How long is there? Like a month?
Mike [00:08:00]:
Well, I guess.
Sergiy [00:08:01]:
What do you say the hundred times before it becomes a part of you?
Mike [00:08:04]:
Yeah, I guess. I think you want a number, but I don't think it's gonna be the same for everybody.
Katherine [00:08:09]:
Yeah.
Mike [00:08:09]:
Same activity. So I think it more has to be like a certain maybe line of questioning you have to ask yourself or others to help you to understand. Have you reached that level that you need to, like, is there some, like, some questions you can ask? I'm not sure this is a very good question. Is there some questions you can ask yourself? Say, hey, actually, I am that what I want it to be. But let me check against these questions to see if there's actually a truth.
Sergiy [00:08:38]:
Right? Yes.
Eldar [00:08:39]:
Because a lot of times, right, we have people in our lives that say, I'm gonna do this in my life, right? Set this goal or that goal, and you look at them like, okay, cool. Yeah, you're a bullshitter. You know what I mean? And that person goes for one week, for two weeks, they're doing it. And you're like, you're still skeptical. You're like, you don't believe this shit. And come one month later, they fall off. And you're like, I fucking told you so. Cause, like, you just don't believe it.
Eldar [00:08:59]:
You know, that it's not there. Up to what point do you go to, like you said, or what questions do you ask to find out that that person's really about that life?
Sergiy [00:09:08]:
But the thing is, like you said, maybe they don't like it. Like, they did it for a while. Like, I don't like it. It's not that they are a flip flop or they just didn't like the new person there. You don't always like who you become.
Sergiy [00:09:19]:
How could I be?
Katherine [00:09:21]:
Interesting point.
Mike [00:09:21]:
You make a positive change in your life.
Eldar [00:09:24]:
If it's a positive goal. Let's just say it is a positive.
Katherine [00:09:26]:
Put it this way. Like, the only reason why I'm consistent with yoga is because I actually enjoy it.
Eldar [00:09:31]:
Yeah.
Katherine [00:09:32]:
If I didn't enjoy it, I would not have become consistent with yoga. So I think part of it, it has to be something that you're enjoying, that you're actually happy doing. If it's not, I think developing that habit or that consistency will be very difficult.
Sergiy [00:09:46]:
Well, that's what they say it takes.
Mike [00:09:47]:
But I think that was, like weeks.
Sergiy [00:09:48]:
For you to start actually enjoying it.
Mike [00:09:50]:
Because.
Sergiy [00:09:52]:
Especially if you don't know, you go there looking like an idiot and everybody's nice and, like, stretching and doing.
Sergiy [00:09:57]:
Yeah.
Sergiy [00:09:58]:
And you're like, you, like, you look like an idiot. I don't even know what the hell I'm doing.
Mike [00:10:02]:
Maybe that's an important and prerequisite question, is to ask off if whatever you're about to do, why are you doing it? And see if those reasons actually are accurate. Well, that's important, too, in line with, like, yeah, I don't know. I can't think of an example for working out.
Sergiy [00:10:17]:
That's what I do, is I. I'm afraid to go out. And although I've done it for many years, I know that I'm no longer where I was. I start at home, slowly get myself into it, mentally get to a limit where I can no longer push myself in the house, or I don't have a full gym. I just, like, push up small weight. And then, as I get now, it's time to go to the gym. I feel more comfortable now. Go to the gym.
Sergiy [00:10:36]:
So maybe, you know, when you set the boundaries with somebody, also takes a couple of times.
Eldar [00:10:41]:
Practice.
Sergiy [00:10:41]:
Practice small way. Like, a small way. And then you see, because sometimes you could actually hurt that other person, and you might not like it, who they become after what you've done.
Katherine [00:10:48]:
Like, it's actually a mental workout.
Eldar [00:10:50]:
The boundaries, 100%.
Katherine [00:10:53]:
It's actually really hard.
Mike [00:10:53]:
All of it is, even the gym. I mean, anything is all mental. Yeah, initially.
Eldar [00:10:57]:
How about this question? I think I got it. I think I got this question. Okay. How about the question of, can you practice this trait at your lowest point? See, she said, no, I don't think so. Which trait, for example, setting boundaries. Oh, bound, for example.
Sergiy [00:11:19]:
Right.
Eldar [00:11:19]:
Let's just say she's tired, drained.
Sergiy [00:11:22]:
Right.
Eldar [00:11:22]:
Whatever it is.
Sergiy [00:11:23]:
Right?
Katherine [00:11:24]:
Yeah.
Eldar [00:11:24]:
And then your mom's like, hey, can you do this for me? Or whatever. She's very pushy, or whatever.
Katherine [00:11:28]:
This still happens to me. Like, I'll have a slip up, and.
Eldar [00:11:30]:
I'm like, this is what I'm saying.
Katherine [00:11:31]:
You know, she got me again. I forgot to put up my boundary. It'll be like, on a day where maybe I'm really down or maybe I'm just really tired. Maybe I'm sick.
Vemir [00:11:39]:
Sick.
Katherine [00:11:40]:
Maybe I'm just really feeling down.
Eldar [00:11:42]:
Correct.
Katherine [00:11:42]:
And it just works that way.
Sergiy [00:11:43]:
For me, setting boundaries is one of the hardest things. I'm almost a yes man. It's very hard for me to say no.
Katherine [00:11:49]:
You're saying people pleaser.
Sergiy [00:11:52]:
I'm afraid of hurting people.
Sergiy [00:11:54]:
Yeah.
Sergiy [00:11:54]:
Like, because sometimes I want to say, you know, f off or something like that, and I'm like, you know, I just don't want to hurt that person. Like, ruin my religion, because I right away think it's going to ruin a relationship because I'm doing something that they don't want me to say to them, you know?
Sergiy [00:12:04]:
Okay.
Sergiy [00:12:05]:
So it takes me something very hard to take. I do say it eventually, when it just gets to a level where, you know, you give them a finger to snatch your whole arm. Yeah, but it takes me a long time to just set a boundary with anybody.
Eldar [00:12:15]:
But you understand the importance of setting boundaries.
Sergiy [00:12:17]:
Obviously, I understand the importance is just sometimes, like, you start weighing out it's like the pros worth it for me or not.
Sergiy [00:12:23]:
Okay. Okay.
Eldar [00:12:25]:
But that's what I'm saying. Like, is that one of those question.
Mike [00:12:27]:
We'd have to test it against all other, like all that. I mean, a few different things, but initially it makes sense because.
Eldar [00:12:33]:
Right. If you're. Let's just say this, right? And I'm not saying that we're masters of any of our crafts or whatever, but I'm saying if you're a master of a particular craft, it's like they saying.
Sergiy [00:12:42]:
Right.
Eldar [00:12:42]:
You should be able to do it blindfolded.
Sergiy [00:12:43]:
Yeah.
Eldar [00:12:44]:
With your eyes closed in your sleep. They say, right. There's certain things in your life that you're very good at, proficient in. It's like a practice.
Sergiy [00:12:51]:
The more you practice, the better you.
Eldar [00:12:53]:
That's what I'm saying. So can that be an indicator of our mastery of ourselves or that particular goal? Let's just say the boundaries or something else. Mike, maybe your example you can bring up.
Sergiy [00:13:03]:
Yeah, yeah.
Eldar [00:13:03]:
Where you can do it while you're sleeping like that, you know?
Mike [00:13:09]:
Yeah, that's a good question. But I think the interesting part is what we're talking about. The prerequisite is to ask yourself, why are you doing this in the first place?
Eldar [00:13:19]:
Correct.
Mike [00:13:20]:
I think that's probably a good place.
Sergiy [00:13:22]:
Right.
Mike [00:13:22]:
You start there. You ask yourself, why are you doing in the first place? Then why are you doing it? You can ask yourself.
Sergiy [00:13:28]:
You remind you. You remind yourself. You don't ask. You remind yourself.
Eldar [00:13:31]:
Yeah, no, that's a. That's a very good point.
Katherine [00:13:33]:
Ultimately, that will take you to, how important is it to you? Where are your values? How much do you value this in your life? It goes deeper than that.
Sergiy [00:13:40]:
Why am I doing it? Okay, I'm doing this because.
Mike [00:13:43]:
No, I meant, like the initial, like, day one, before you even start doing anything, you want to ask yourself, what are my reasons for doing this? Like, if you say, like, hey, I want to lose weight, right? And you say, oh, I just want to, like, do it for vanity. Let's say just an easy example.
Eldar [00:13:57]:
To look good.
Mike [00:13:58]:
To look good.
Sergiy [00:13:59]:
Right.
Eldar [00:13:59]:
To smell good, to feel good, to eat rich.
Sergiy [00:14:02]:
Yeah.
Mike [00:14:04]:
If you want to do it for that, like, then you have to see those are reasons, mind, if you say, I want to lose weight because I want to be healthy, what do you.
Sergiy [00:14:12]:
Think is a bigger reason for people to hit up the gym, to feel better and look better, probably. Or to lose weight?
Mike [00:14:17]:
I mean, are they saying it out.
Eldar [00:14:18]:
Loud or are they saying it to themselves, to themselves, like, then I think it's more like, I want to look good.
Sergiy [00:14:24]:
Just look.
Eldar [00:14:24]:
But if they say it out, ask them out loud, because of course it's for to be Help.
Phillip [00:14:28]:
I think a lot of people go to the gym for community in a sense of like, like a hangout. Also, the way, like, gym, like, gym goers. Like, gym goers talk about, like, no way. The way that I hear, like, people who are, like, into weights and, like, the way that I pay attention, even like, online, is like, they go and it's like a hangout.
Sergiy [00:14:43]:
No way.
Sergiy [00:14:43]:
Yeah. Oh, yeah.
Sergiy [00:14:44]:
I've been working out all my life. And you want to be secluded when you're working out, because you need to have concentration. You put headphones on, and when you're working out, so what, the concentration? No, but they're yapping around.
Eldar [00:14:54]:
No, but there's a lot of people.
Katherine [00:14:55]:
That.
Sergiy [00:14:58]:
You can see. They don't look good. They're not doing anything.
Katherine [00:15:02]:
This is very morale.
Sergiy [00:15:05]:
Community, I think. I think communities is in, like, yoga classes, stuff like that. That all the stretching classes or what kaya does where they do like, drills and stuff. Yeah, that's community. But when you're, like a weight person, you do it alone.
Phillip [00:15:18]:
Yeah, dude.
Sergiy [00:15:19]:
Because the concentration you need.
Phillip [00:15:21]:
I personally. I personally am. But the way that I would. I would also argue that there is a sense that, like, when you're there just saying hi to other people and the fact that, you know, they're people that are there, like, it is like, maybe it's the equivalent of, like, you going out. Like, if you're staying home, you don't have a big.
Eldar [00:15:37]:
If you don't have, like, a social.
Phillip [00:15:38]:
Element to your life, if there's familiarity with other people that are there, maybe not, like, during your workout, per se, but. But the fact of, like, going in, having your locker experience, going in the steam room sauna, like, if you just know people, I think it can be a social.
Katherine [00:15:50]:
There could be a social. You're gonna be amongst like minded individuals. You're all there for a very similar goal, which is you're working on your health, you're working on your body.
Sergiy [00:16:00]:
From where I know. Notice people who lift weights, they don't do that. Cause every time you yap, you're losing that pump, you're losing that concentration.
Eldar [00:16:07]:
You talk about some serious ones.
Katherine [00:16:09]:
Yeah, surgery's talking, like, hardcore.
Sergiy [00:16:11]:
When you say, when I work out.
Sergiy [00:16:12]:
I try not to hang out with anybody. I just do it my own.
Eldar [00:16:14]:
Because you're in the zone.
Sergiy [00:16:15]:
Yeah, because as soon as Mike or duck, come up to me.
Sergiy [00:16:17]:
I.
Sergiy [00:16:17]:
Right away. Relax. I want to blab with them now.
Katherine [00:16:19]:
You want to just hang out, then I go home.
Sergiy [00:16:21]:
Like, I didn't really have a workout, you know, like, serious workout, when you actually.
Eldar [00:16:25]:
I actually enjoy the fact that sometimes between the breaks, you can. Hey, you can actually, uh oh.
Mike [00:16:29]:
El presidente.
Katherine [00:16:31]:
The president.
Mike [00:16:34]:
Hey, yo, what's up, man?
Sergiy [00:16:37]:
Perfect.
Eldar [00:16:37]:
Your dear friend.
Mike [00:16:40]:
They're changing into costumes.
Katherine [00:16:42]:
Hi. How are you? Good to see you.
Phillip [00:16:44]:
What's up, man?
Sergiy [00:16:45]:
How we doing?
Sergiy [00:16:46]:
How are you, man?
Vemir [00:16:46]:
What's your name?
Sergiy [00:16:47]:
Sergey. Sergey.
Mike [00:16:48]:
Sergei.
Eldar [00:16:50]:
Let me just catch you up to speed real quick what we're talking about. So we'd like to find out when does our certain goals that we make.
Sergiy [00:16:58]:
Right.
Eldar [00:16:59]:
Could be physical goals. It could be mental goals, challenges and things that we're trying to overcome in our personal life. When do they become solidified in a sense that they become part of your character? Now you no longer are, you know.
Vemir [00:17:11]:
Returning to the same issues.
Eldar [00:17:13]:
Yeah. Almost like you've passed this level and, you know, you know, it's like almost being able to, you know, perform when. Without even looking.
Sergiy [00:17:22]:
Right.
Eldar [00:17:22]:
It becomes very easy to you.
Sergiy [00:17:24]:
Right.
Eldar [00:17:24]:
And a couple of things. Couple examples that we brought up is, like, for example, going to the gym. Serge said, you know, you need how many weeks? 16 weeks.
Sergiy [00:17:31]:
Eight to 16 weeks.
Eldar [00:17:32]:
Eight to 16 weeks. In order to build a habit that's going to stay, stick around. And then now you identify as a gym goer, and it's easy for you and stuff like that.
Sergiy [00:17:40]:
Right?
Eldar [00:17:40]:
Now, we want to find out what about the psychological ones? The psychological ones. Like, for example, setting boundaries, right? Like, we have Catherine's example of setting boundaries with her mom. When do those get solidified?
Sergiy [00:17:51]:
Right?
Eldar [00:17:51]:
And this is what we're discussing. We're trying to find out, how do you go from being a complete noob and setting this goal is to be maybe a kinder person, maybe a, you know, more compassionate, setting boundaries, I don't know, self care, self love, and all this other stuff. And how does it actually then become part of you where you no longer have to think about it? It's just part of you. And now you're, I guess, benefiting from the. The fruits of your own labor. Like, this is what we're trying to answer.
Vemir [00:18:20]:
Did you guys hear that quote of Anicha? It's like when you're tired. Like, the translation is german, so tired means, I think depressed.
Sergiy [00:18:28]:
Right?
Vemir [00:18:29]:
All those things you think you conquered come right back to you. All the demons come right back.
Sergiy [00:18:33]:
Okay.
Vemir [00:18:34]:
As if they never left, that's sick.
Eldar [00:18:37]:
I just actually, we were trying to find out a question that we can ask in order to identify whether or not the person is actually are about that life. And I said, well, let's ask that question. Whether or not I'll present that challenge to them when they're very tired, and if they can still do it, that means they actually about that life, and they can actually have that and get character. So that's funny that you say that. That niche. I didn't know that.
Vemir [00:18:59]:
Yeah, no, it's, like, one of his more, like, prominent things that people repeat. But, I mean, the immediate thing I thought was, like, okay, it's probably when you go back down a level, and that's easy, that you go back up. For example, I feel, like, bad with social anxiety in high school.
Sergiy [00:19:14]:
Okay.
Vemir [00:19:14]:
Then you become really, like, the best. Then you go back to your hometown bar, and that's, like, feels like a completed level.
Sergiy [00:19:22]:
Right.
Vemir [00:19:23]:
Or, like, girl that you were nervous to talk to now. Yeah, no problem. That's when you see, like, something that was hard before is not easy. That's a great sign.
Sergiy [00:19:32]:
Yeah.
Vemir [00:19:32]:
Like, if Ronaldo went back to, like, a smaller league and destroyed the league, that's a sign of solidified progress. Right?
Eldar [00:19:40]:
Okay.
Sergiy [00:19:40]:
Yeah.
Vemir [00:19:40]:
But I think, like, have you heard of, like, the four competence levels, like, conscious competence and stuff like this?
Eldar [00:19:46]:
Probably better.
Vemir [00:19:47]:
The framework is, like, super easy. It's like, in terms of mastering a skill, it's like, unconscious incompetence means, like, you're bad at something like karate, and you don't know why you're bad. Then the teacher shows you what you're doing wrong. You enter conscious competence.
Eldar [00:20:03]:
Incompetence.
Vemir [00:20:04]:
Conscious incompetence. So now you know what you're doing wrong.
Eldar [00:20:07]:
Correct.
Vemir [00:20:07]:
Then you become what? Conscious competence. You're doing it on purpose.
Eldar [00:20:11]:
Okay.
Vemir [00:20:11]:
You're training. You're doing it right. You're doing the kick right and stuff. And then the last one is second nature. It's a. It's unconscious competence. So you're doing it, like, as if it was your natural breathing. Exactly.
Vemir [00:20:23]:
I think that final level is what people call mastery.
Eldar [00:20:26]:
Oh, again, but we're trying to find.
Vemir [00:20:28]:
Out that's in terms of competence.
Sergiy [00:20:29]:
We're trying to find out if there is, like, a time.
Eldar [00:20:32]:
Is there a time? And also, like, what are the. Some of the triggers or indic indicators that, like. Okay, cool. Like, I actually got this right.
Sergiy [00:20:38]:
Like, really, like, is there a time frame? How many times? Let's say you want to set like, shoot, let's say you want to say, how many times would you set boundaries with somebody until you know this part of you?
Vemir [00:20:50]:
Well, it's about, I think, like, integrity there. Like, if you set a boundary, it fails. Set a boundary, it fails. Either the boundary is wrong or your strength and maintaining it's wrong.
Sergiy [00:21:00]:
That's what I was also thinking. Because it's also not only used other person, how they reciprocate your boundary.
Eldar [00:21:05]:
Well, no, I don't think it's supposed.
Vemir [00:21:06]:
To be like that.
Eldar [00:21:06]:
At least with boundaries. Yeah, I don't think, you know, your progress should be reliant on how they responding to your boundaries. Now, if you're setting the wrong ones or you don't know how to properly uphold them, I think then it's an indicator that you're still failing.
Vemir [00:21:18]:
I can tell you how you know that one's successful. When boundaries that you set, when you meet someone new, they've pre established the boundary without you saying, okay, that's, you know, when someone has an aura of respect or presence, you automatically don't do certain things around.
Eldar [00:21:34]:
Wow, that's a good point.
Sergiy [00:21:35]:
I think you can feel.
Vemir [00:21:36]:
I think that's.
Eldar [00:21:36]:
That is a good point.
Vemir [00:21:37]:
That's when it's really.
Eldar [00:21:39]:
See, we're talking about character now.
Sergiy [00:21:40]:
Yeah.
Vemir [00:21:41]:
When your character is integrated.
Sergiy [00:21:42]:
Yes.
Vemir [00:21:43]:
Nonverbal.
Eldar [00:21:44]:
Correct. So, like, my example was when Mike, you know, years ago, was a flip flop or going to the gym.
Vemir [00:21:49]:
You were flip flops to the gym.
Sergiy [00:21:50]:
Yeah.
Eldar [00:21:51]:
No, yeah, he was, you know, he would always be wishy washy when it comes to going to the gym. And now I I completely forgot about that identity. I mean, I remember it, but I don't associate him with that because now he's an actual gym goer. Consistent gym goer.
Vemir [00:22:04]:
Right, right.
Eldar [00:22:04]:
So. And it's almost like Mike is the gym guy.
Sergiy [00:22:07]:
Yeah.
Vemir [00:22:07]:
Now he's the new.
Eldar [00:22:08]:
This is his new identity. And, like, everybody knows that. You know what I mean? There's no longer Mike the slippery eel.
Vemir [00:22:16]:
Are you afraid of slipping back into your old ways?
Sergiy [00:22:19]:
No.
Mike [00:22:19]:
Now with a gym.
Eldar [00:22:20]:
Oh, see, that's. That's another good point. I think that if you're not afraid, if you're not afraid to get caught off guard or slip back, I think that's another indicator that you probably mastered this, because this comes as a second nature.
Sergiy [00:22:32]:
You're like, I'll do it again next time.
Vemir [00:22:34]:
Some people, the thing is, you cannot.
Sergiy [00:22:35]:
Take a break for too long.
Vemir [00:22:37]:
Oh, do you think, like, I think.
Eldar [00:22:40]:
You'Re not a real gym guys.
Sergiy [00:22:41]:
On drug addiction?
Eldar [00:22:45]:
No.
Phillip [00:22:45]:
See, over time, I think what happens is then you have to ask yourself, let's say you go to the gym, right? And you go for, like, two months. So you start to become better then. Are you starting to like the fact that you're actually good at it, or do you actually like the process of lifting weights? Cause, like, if you're going to do something, like the first time or the second time, if you don't like it, then, okay, you don't know how to do it. So does that mean that, like, as you're getting better and you're becoming more of a master, does that mean you just, like, becoming a master? So, like, what if you start painting? What if you start doing music and, like, do you just. Are you only then gauging your level of interest based off of how good you become or you actually enjoy the process of, like, writing the music or, like, lifting the weights? I think that's important because, like, the first time, like, I would go for a walk and, like, in the city, like, me and Mike started to do it. Like, I, like, I genuinely like it then I was trying to figure out, like, okay, do I want to do it with people? Do I want to do it by myself? And I found that I'm doing it on my own and I do like it. And then I compare the walking to, like, the gym. I can go to the gym.
Phillip [00:23:45]:
I can go with the group or by myself. I don't keep going back. Like, I'm good at working out. I just don't enjoy the process.
Mike [00:23:52]:
So that's another question.
Phillip [00:23:53]:
Yeah, I think also, are you doing it for the.
Sergiy [00:23:55]:
Only.
Mike [00:23:55]:
For the results?
Phillip [00:23:56]:
Yeah, are you doing it for the results?
Mike [00:23:57]:
Only for the results or for the results?
Vemir [00:24:00]:
Yeah, I think that motivations, right? Yeah, motive changes over time.
Sergiy [00:24:05]:
Yeah. Right.
Vemir [00:24:05]:
Like, but do you need motivation? If you enjoy the process, your intention when you first go to the gym might be way different than when you're two years deep. Like, you'll find different things.
Sergiy [00:24:18]:
Right.
Vemir [00:24:19]:
By doing something for a while.
Sergiy [00:24:20]:
Yeah.
Sergiy [00:24:20]:
Because you're gonna be like, maybe I want to be next level above, right?
Sergiy [00:24:23]:
Yeah.
Eldar [00:24:23]:
You might be going to the gym for one thing, and then you're like, oh, look good.
Sergiy [00:24:27]:
And then in two years, like, you know what? I want to go become, you know, become a bodybuilder.
Phillip [00:24:31]:
But if you enjoy it, what does it matter?
Vemir [00:24:34]:
Because the, the flavor of it changes, which might keep you there longer. Like, for example, like, I went into sales to make money, but I love the people. And then we built a company, and then we did a startup from there. And, like, I think it can evolve, and your original intention might be completely different from what you enjoy about it.
Sergiy [00:24:55]:
Yeah, time changes people, you know?
Vemir [00:24:56]:
I mean, like, the process you're emphasizing is, like, super important. I'm just saying the. The reason why you go over time changes, usually.
Sergiy [00:25:06]:
Yeah.
Phillip [00:25:06]:
I'd say, though, in that scenario with the company, like, you're goal driven. Like, it seems like you would sell the company and then, like, you'd move on to another thing. Like, if you genuinely enjoy working out, it would just come in different forms. Like, you enter a competition, you do something else. Or then, like, maybe you're just going to then go to the gym by yourself and do it on a lower scale. But, like, to me, if you really, truly enjoyed working out, you wouldn't stop working out whether you're doing a competition or, like, you're just going by yourself. Like, if you're starting a company just to sell it, I would argue that you actually don't like the thing that you were doing and you were just going there to get the money. Yeah.
Phillip [00:25:40]:
I think that's why the process, to me, is very important. Like, we're saying, why are you doing what you're doing? And if it's just to, like, say, like, oh, I feel really good when I work out, I would argue that you don't like working out the process. To me, you didn't describe anything about working out to me. You're not saying, like, hey, I love the class. I love the breathing technique. I love learning, like, how to do, like, different types of stretches, because, like, it, like, really pushes my boundary and challenges me.
Sergiy [00:26:04]:
Yeah, yeah.
Phillip [00:26:05]:
Like, if you talk like that, then I would say, like, oh, you know what? This person's actually interested in that thing. And, like, I think that they have a really good shot.
Eldar [00:26:12]:
You're describing passion.
Sergiy [00:26:13]:
Yeah.
Phillip [00:26:14]:
To me, like, if there's passion in the process, I think that person has a better chance to stay in that thing. Like, irregardless of, like, what the actual outcome is. Like, if they get in better shape or they make more money from their company. Like, to me, there has to be some type of passion in that thing to genuinely keep you coming back and to then make it embody, like, who you are and then have somebody associate that thing with you.
Vemir [00:26:36]:
I think we have a problem with that, though, in today's society. Like, the way you described it is really good.
Sergiy [00:26:41]:
Yeah.
Vemir [00:26:41]:
I'm just thinking, like, I watched this, like, panel or something this guy was saying today kids want to grow up to be youtubers and stuff like that. And it's like people say, follow your dreams this day. But the dreams are kind of like bland or boring. Used to be in the sixties, kids wanted to be an astronaut. This is like extremely complex mathematical operations pushing the boundaries of humanity. All this really interesting and I would say important stuff, not taking away any value from YouTube, which what it is, but it's like our dreams are context based too. Like, I feel like that can muddle the pot. Like, you can tell yourself, I'm really passionate about this, but how many people are blacksmiths or masons anymore?
Sergiy [00:27:21]:
Right?
Vemir [00:27:21]:
That used to be the main gig. It's like I'm curious, like when it talks about passion and like, who you are, it's like it is limited, right, to. To what the current thing is.
Phillip [00:27:33]:
That's if you want a certain type of response from an outside person.
Vemir [00:27:39]:
But I'm saying it's natural, right? Automatic thing is like, kids look around, they're not thinking about masonry work or architecture, they're thinking about YouTube. Most of the point.
Phillip [00:27:47]:
Well, you're describing like the evolution of Hollywood fame and now the equivalent of a famous person that's also now getting money is somebody who's going to be an influencer because now they're making tens of millions of dollars and maybe more because they're getting recognition where they're able to sit home, influence a product, be a brand ambassador or whatever that may be. And kids are looking at it like, hey, you know what? I don't have to do too much. Or maybe I can entertain people and do it this way. I think if you're looking at some of the top creators, these are people that genuinely love to entertain. And I think if acting was still a thing, maybe they would have went the acting route, but they saw this as a route where they can create. Like, if you're a true content creator, I think you're coming from a place of creation and you genuinely enjoy the process.
Eldar [00:28:29]:
There's a guy in your successful people.
Vemir [00:28:30]:
Are the ones who do that.
Phillip [00:28:31]:
Yeah, exactly. So to me, what you're describing is like, for the person who is, like, looking for the next hot thing to then have like, a response from, like, somebody telling them, hey, you know what? Like, this is really good to me. That's not somebody who's enjoying the process. I don't think there's any passion in that.
Vemir [00:28:46]:
You think burnout only comes from that?
Phillip [00:28:48]:
Oh, yeah. I think it's inevitable.
Sergiy [00:28:49]:
Burnout.
Vemir [00:28:50]:
Do you think burnout is a delusion.
Phillip [00:28:52]:
A delusion in.
Vemir [00:28:54]:
Within another delusion.
Phillip [00:28:55]:
Well, yeah, because you're saying, I want to do this because. And then if you actually ask them, that person probably just wants to be famous. And famous to me is just attention, and there's nothing to me built in that process.
Eldar [00:29:05]:
That's why Socrates went around and said, why you do what you do.
Sergiy [00:29:08]:
Yeah.
Eldar [00:29:08]:
And a lot of times people couldn't answer it properly.
Sergiy [00:29:11]:
Yeah.
Phillip [00:29:11]:
And most of the people, if you.
Vemir [00:29:12]:
Do ask the problem.
Sergiy [00:29:14]:
Yeah.
Phillip [00:29:14]:
It's gonna be a surface level.
Sergiy [00:29:15]:
There you go.
Phillip [00:29:16]:
Action.
Mike [00:29:17]:
The flip side of that coin, the passion thing, I think it's one of our favorite topics, would be the opposite of passion, which is discipline.
Sergiy [00:29:24]:
Right.
Mike [00:29:25]:
And I think that's a very good question. Whatever you're doing, right. If you're going to the gym, hey, am I going to the gym because I'm passionate or because I'm using discipline? If your answer to yourself is going to be honest and you say it's discipline, then you probably have to just fuck it and just go eat three big Macs.
Vemir [00:29:42]:
Passion can also be very selfish thing. How so? Like, I know a lot of artists who are so passionate about art, and they carry along people and depend on them and they're not self sufficient, but then are really sacrificing.
Eldar [00:29:56]:
How's that on that? So what?
Vemir [00:29:57]:
Because they're like, so isn't it there?
Sergiy [00:30:00]:
Right?
Vemir [00:30:00]:
No.
Mike [00:30:01]:
It could be also fake passion. It could be like an act.
Vemir [00:30:04]:
It's more ego based. But even then, like, you are a node in a network. That's how you are in the world. You cannot say, I am alone. I can do anything I want. It doesn't affect anybody. It's fine. That doesn't exist.
Vemir [00:30:16]:
That phrase, I think, is a false phrase.
Sergiy [00:30:18]:
Okay, sure. But.
Eldar [00:30:19]:
But nonetheless, you have the right to do so.
Vemir [00:30:21]:
I mean, having the right is like saying we all have free will. Yeah, but I'm saying, like, the right thing to do, I think, is to also, passion can emerge from being of service, too, like great art can.
Eldar [00:30:34]:
I definitely agree with you, but it's.
Vemir [00:30:35]:
Like, some people are passionate and, like, it's all about me and how I feel right now. And I don't want to feel pain.
Phillip [00:30:42]:
Like you're describing somebody who's struggling with something. Like somebody who's passionate about something and coming from either a place of creation or of service is coming from a genuine place, to me, expecting nothing in.
Mike [00:30:53]:
Return, but passionate about the process.
Phillip [00:30:56]:
Exactly. About the create the creation process or service process. Like, if you're. If you're coming from a place of like, I'm doing this because I want something in return. It's again, going back to the gym and saying, I'm going here so I can lose weight, so I can feel good. To me, that's. That's not keeping you going back to the gym. Like, if you're gonna make.
Vemir [00:31:14]:
I think that's a good motivation for your capillaries.
Phillip [00:31:18]:
And that's nothing to do with the process.
Eldar [00:31:21]:
And I think that's going back to what surge said, right. He said, there's a difference between going to the gym for fucking socializing aspect versus when I'm focused, you know what I mean? And really paying attention to how. And I saw. I saw the way he works out. I don't work out like that.
Phillip [00:31:37]:
That's, to me, that's more processed. He's more into the process.
Vemir [00:31:41]:
Correct, though. Like, I think he's right. He's like Arnold even says, and he's like an authority. He's like, if you're listening to music, checking your phone in between sets and.
Eldar [00:31:50]:
Talking to people and stuff like that.
Vemir [00:31:52]:
You'Re not getting in the full. You should be scared of your next set.
Sergiy [00:31:55]:
You know what I mean?
Vemir [00:31:56]:
You should be walking around getting a drink of water, like, oh, shit, that's some weight I have to pull. And that requires your focus. But in terms of, like, passion. Passion and focus are, like, embedded within each other. I think we have that issue today with attention and focus and drive and discipline in our paradox of choice is a huge issue. People are wishy washy, I think, with their passions.
Sergiy [00:32:20]:
Yeah.
Eldar [00:32:21]:
I mean, the big difference for me, for example, something that I'm passionate about versus something that I'm not. I do gym and I play basketball. It's completely two different experiences. I definitely like how I feel after gym. Same 100%.
Sergiy [00:32:33]:
Yeah, yeah.
Phillip [00:32:34]:
What keeps you going back, though?
Sergiy [00:32:36]:
It's.
Phillip [00:32:36]:
It's not as easy. Right.
Eldar [00:32:38]:
There's basketball. Basketball is effortless. Soccer.
Vemir [00:32:41]:
Soccer is effortless.
Eldar [00:32:42]:
But you probably feel the gym you're.
Sergiy [00:32:44]:
Like in after basketball than you do from the gym.
Sergiy [00:32:46]:
Yeah.
Sergiy [00:32:47]:
Your basketball wears you out more.
Mike [00:32:49]:
Yes, for sure.
Sergiy [00:32:50]:
Basketball.
Vemir [00:32:50]:
What?
Sergiy [00:32:51]:
Basketball wears him out physically more than.
Vemir [00:32:53]:
Oh, where's you out?
Sergiy [00:32:53]:
Yeah, yeah.
Eldar [00:32:54]:
Cuz I give him my all and I really in it versus Jim, it's.
Sergiy [00:32:57]:
Like, yeah, that's what I'm saying.
Eldar [00:32:59]:
Like, I'll do it, but I'm not giving what you give it.
Sergiy [00:33:01]:
You love in this passion. Yeah.
Sergiy [00:33:05]:
Yeah.
Eldar [00:33:05]:
You know what I'm saying?
Sergiy [00:33:07]:
I feel like I'm dead. Like I'm, you know.
Eldar [00:33:10]:
Yeah, no, I saw the way you work out. It's wild.
Sergiy [00:33:12]:
Yeah.
Phillip [00:33:12]:
So I would argue those people that, that I'm finding online that are saying it's a sense of community aren't as serious, and they are going for a social element that is probably not what the gym is there for, for you, but the gym is gonna take their money. And it's just, to me, a part of, like, what new culture is. It's like, if you don't want to go to clubs and you don't want to go to places, if you can pay for a place where, like, hey, you can pretend to, like, you know, $400 a month.
Vemir [00:33:37]:
Equinox. Equinox, baby.
Eldar [00:33:42]:
A lot of people can't study at home. They go study at the library. Same thing.
Phillip [00:33:46]:
Same thing.
Eldar [00:33:47]:
Yes, I use that crush for the gym, but.
Vemir [00:33:49]:
But is that, um. Okay, so I have a question about this because, like, I'm pretty intense guy. Like, I want to eliminate variables, do it the pure way, whatever else, to my benefit and damage. Sometimes David Goggins is on, like, joe Rogan and he's like, yo, man, those guys with music on the gym, I just think, where are you gonna be without that music? I'm like, okay, that's from his perspective. But then there's, like, some guy who's really fat who's just trying to lose weight for his health. If he needs music, it's okay, you know, I mean, like, I think there's different levels.
Sergiy [00:34:21]:
I cannot work out without music, right? I put headphones, but I think it's.
Vemir [00:34:25]:
Like that kind of crunch, it's different. Like, that kind of crutches.
Mike [00:34:28]:
There's levels to it.
Eldar [00:34:28]:
Like, he's talking about purest form.
Sergiy [00:34:31]:
Yes.
Vemir [00:34:31]:
Like, you hear other people, if you're.
Sergiy [00:34:34]:
Alone in the room, you could work out without music. You could concentrate. But when there's other people making noise, talking, you need music to eliminate all of that. So you concentrate. You put on a song that pumps.
Vemir [00:34:44]:
You up and you just listen to music. Like.
Sergiy [00:34:46]:
Like, I put on, like, hardcore metal, something like that. And it keeps me. I cannot listen to, like, you know, Britney Spears.
Vemir [00:34:52]:
It has to be high bpm.
Sergiy [00:34:54]:
Yeah, one, something like that. Like, you know, like a rock. Like hardcore stuff, you know, metal, something like that. I was like, yeah, I could get into this workout as soon as I forget my headphones, bro. I cannot work out all that yapping and people talking around me. I cannot. The noises. I cannot do anything.
Sergiy [00:35:10]:
I live the gym. I was like, I'm done.
Phillip [00:35:11]:
But David Gong is, from what I understand, is that he's somebody who wants to push the, like, the human limit, what you think you can have in an extreme level. So, like, again, like, is he enjoying this? I've heard him talk about things that, like, he doesn't enjoy the process, but he's doing them to, like, push his limit, to become maybe, like, a master or, like, show people, like, you're capable of what's possible.
Vemir [00:35:33]:
I think he's also, like. But the kind of disciplinarian who's serving other.
Phillip [00:35:38]:
He is, though. I feel like.
Sergiy [00:35:40]:
Like.
Vemir [00:35:40]:
But he's not enjoying.
Sergiy [00:35:41]:
No, he's extreme. He was swimming with hands tied behind.
Mike [00:35:44]:
But what is the. What is. Is there possible. Is it possible to be passionate but not to go into overdrive, like, in this rage mode where he goes, but.
Phillip [00:35:57]:
Balance and passion is basically what you're.
Mike [00:35:58]:
Yeah, I'm asking, like, did you hear.
Sergiy [00:36:00]:
About the guy that was doing, like, a hundred marathons and, like, something in a row?
Sergiy [00:36:04]:
Yeah. Yeah.
Sergiy [00:36:05]:
Like, they talk about as a hundred.
Vemir [00:36:07]:
Days in a row, 100 days.
Sergiy [00:36:08]:
100 marathons in the row. It's like, these people are insane. There's, like, superhuman. You know? He does a marathon in the morning to go to warm up. He's like, before work, he does a marathon. You know, it's like, there's people, like, maybe less than 1% of entire world, you know?
Vemir [00:36:21]:
But, like, what's Alex Honold?
Sergiy [00:36:23]:
Do?
Vemir [00:36:23]:
You know that climber?
Mike [00:36:25]:
There's a.
Vemir [00:36:26]:
There's a documentary called free solo. That guy, he climbed the negative angle.
Sergiy [00:36:31]:
Yeah.
Vemir [00:36:32]:
Freehand is like, he's not really. By the way, David Goggins usually comes in second place, and then the first place guy is like, I love running. You know, that kind of guy. Like, he's smashing David Goggins because he's so passionate about it. Alex Honnold is climbing two fingers. Nobody's asking him to do this. He just cannot not do it. But the problem is, is our.
Vemir [00:36:53]:
Our society, I can see clearly they're always focused on these number one people. And the number one people are always extreme versions, right? I was having this conversation about Cristiano Ronaldo, like, six years ago. Like, that guy is the most european footballer looking guy. He sets the archetype right, the diamond earring. Everything's clean. Dating Irina Shaik. Like, people model themselves after him. Like, you notice that, right? Like, their archetypes exist.
Sergiy [00:37:21]:
And people, implicitly, they try to look like.
Vemir [00:37:24]:
I see many David Goggins, mini Elon Musk. I see those guys everywhere now. The way they speak, even like, this is a weird, like, monkey see, monkey do thing, which I thought that's always.
Eldar [00:37:36]:
That'S always been that way.
Vemir [00:37:37]:
Of course it's always been that way. But I'm wondering, like, how do we, how do we prop up individual? Is there balanced, passionate people that can rise to those levels or the percent eventually?
Sergiy [00:37:50]:
Like, if you do something on your own and you're not, like, you don't see somebody do it and you just do your own thing and then you become really good at it, other people flock to you. Same thing is happening with these people. So there are people because you see.
Vemir [00:38:00]:
Them is just, you're saying they emerged from that process.
Sergiy [00:38:04]:
They emerged, but on their own process.
Eldar [00:38:05]:
Yeah, but if everybody was individual, then, then nobody would value.
Sergiy [00:38:10]:
That's what I'm saying, each other.
Eldar [00:38:12]:
So I'm saying mine just everybody would just be your own person.
Sergiy [00:38:15]:
So we do have.
Eldar [00:38:16]:
And nobody will be famous and nobody will.
Sergiy [00:38:19]:
That's why we have those few 1% that everybody.
Eldar [00:38:21]:
Let's hop into that.
Vemir [00:38:22]:
My advisor said it's always the, like, unique angle. Like, especially people who see around the corner who become prominent. Like, I've studied in my own narcissistic circle. Energy, time. Right? I studied great people. I read all their biographies and this kind of stuff. They always have like, certain patterns, like young greatness, like childhood trauma, like a certain isolation period, grinding, doubling down, extending that pain threshold when things are hard and continuing, and then there's this long period of nothing and then they skyrocket out.
Sergiy [00:38:58]:
Right.
Vemir [00:38:58]:
So it's like there's a certain character style that makes these people too. Like, it's not like, it's not always like the rich kid who becomes the, the one you would expect. You ever seen shark tank? You know that guy Robert on the right side? He's like a really nice guy. He was on Dancing with the Stars.
Sergiy [00:39:19]:
Canadian guy.
Sergiy [00:39:20]:
Yeah.
Vemir [00:39:20]:
He's like, originally from Croatia, Czech Republic.
Sergiy [00:39:24]:
Yeah, but I think he lives in Canada.
Sergiy [00:39:26]:
Yeah.
Vemir [00:39:26]:
So he said, like, he looked around, he was not the richest, he was not the most competent. There's Harvard, I believe. How do you compete with those guys? And he said his approach was being kind and of learning and iterating and always being nice and leaving a good impression. And he's the one there and not the Ivy League guys who you would expect to be there. Right. I met some politician kids who, they had selfies with Hillary Clinton at age twelve. Wait, that doesn't sound right. But it's like, you know, it's not the ones that are textbook.
Vemir [00:39:57]:
But it's the really unique versions that set the inner archetype, which is very weird to me.
Eldar [00:40:04]:
Why is that weird?
Vemir [00:40:05]:
We're, like, searching for alternative routes for success. It's very interesting.
Eldar [00:40:10]:
No, but that's the. I think that's the authenticity of those individuals.
Sergiy [00:40:15]:
Yeah.
Eldar [00:40:15]:
Actually makes them stand out.
Sergiy [00:40:16]:
You know, they're not molded by anybody else.
Sergiy [00:40:18]:
Yeah.
Sergiy [00:40:18]:
They're making their own molds.
Eldar [00:40:20]:
And that is very, like. I think that that's what illuminates maybe a level of, like, self sufficient, like, happiness, maybe, and builds their character. Builds the character.
Sergiy [00:40:30]:
Yeah. So.
Vemir [00:40:31]:
So that when they're in the big rooms, they don't change.
Sergiy [00:40:33]:
Yeah.
Eldar [00:40:34]:
They stay the same because they know who they are, what they're about. And that is obviously for the simps out there.
Sergiy [00:40:41]:
Right.
Eldar [00:40:41]:
It is fucking attractive.
Vemir [00:40:43]:
Mmm. Simps are looking for a source of strength, 100%. And.
Eldar [00:40:50]:
So they have to look after something like that.
Vemir [00:40:53]:
Pardon me.
Eldar [00:40:54]:
And they have to look up to someone like that because they.
Vemir [00:40:56]:
They want to find, like, certain permission. Like, they know it exists within themselves. They just haven't given themselves the permission a chance. Because it's painful.
Eldar [00:41:03]:
That's right.
Vemir [00:41:03]:
Like, I think part of it is just doing weird shit. Like, if you're socially anxious, you fall and you realize it wasn't that bad. Like, I feel like the Mount Everest is always in my head whenever I do something, it's never as hard. Getting into the gym is the hardest part of every workout. Every time.
Sergiy [00:41:19]:
Yeah.
Vemir [00:41:20]:
Just getting there. Every time that I need to do something hard, the hardest part is starting. It's really weird.
Mike [00:41:29]:
Every time in the morning when I go into the cold shower, especially in the winter, I'm like, holy shit, this is about to be difficult.
Vemir [00:41:35]:
I used to call it laughing. Like. You ever laugh?
Mike [00:41:38]:
But it's. I think, like, I was listening.
Eldar [00:41:41]:
That's your weird part.
Sergiy [00:41:42]:
Sorry. Yeah. Oh, yeah.
Mike [00:41:44]:
This guy, he was saying, like, it's important for us to do things that are challenging, though. That's a good, like, a stress thing version.
Vemir [00:41:51]:
Yeah, it's a good stress.
Mike [00:41:52]:
It builds character, I guess, too, you know, challenging ourselves. Do things that we find difficult.
Sergiy [00:41:57]:
You know?
Vemir [00:41:57]:
I went to Wim Hof's training, and after that, for a year and a half, every day, I did cold showers. And I remember being the weird guy. I lived in Soho. I would go out in shorts and just gloves, no shirt even. And I walk around in the freezing cold, breathing and stuff like that.
Sergiy [00:42:14]:
I did it also.
Vemir [00:42:15]:
It was also double fun because it's weird. You know what I mean?
Sergiy [00:42:18]:
I want to see. What do you think?
Mike [00:42:21]:
Shorts.
Phillip [00:42:21]:
And I think eventually, Mike definitely respects shorts. In the winter, we said this.
Eldar [00:42:26]:
I should have just was a show off his bulge.
Sergiy [00:42:28]:
Eventually. Closed shower.
Vemir [00:42:29]:
If you miss the markers for Aruba, the instead is Iceland or something.
Sergiy [00:42:33]:
Because the way he was breathing, like, the oxygen increasing your bloodstream.
Eldar [00:42:39]:
Yeah, yeah. It sounds like he was cheating.
Mike [00:42:41]:
No, it wasn't. I think it's called intentional hyperventilation, bro.
Sergiy [00:42:45]:
Yeah, yeah.
Sergiy [00:42:45]:
But it makes you hot. So when you do it and you go in the cold shower, you don't really feel it. I would do it in the shower, and then I was like, after a while, I don't even know if it was the breathing, because I think if you submerge yourself in the water a hundred times, eventually you don't care about the cold water anymore.
Vemir [00:42:57]:
Tolerance, build character.
Sergiy [00:42:59]:
But I did go outside after the gym. I would take off my shirt, stand there sweating cold in the winter, and then go back in the house and take a cold shower.
Eldar [00:43:06]:
It feels cool.
Sergiy [00:43:07]:
But I don't know if it made.
Eldar [00:43:08]:
Me any special, like, guys, are we gonna answer this question or what?
Sergiy [00:43:12]:
How long it takes to.
Eldar [00:43:13]:
To build character?
Mike [00:43:14]:
I don't think it's a. I'm not sure if you gotta put time on it.
Vemir [00:43:17]:
Oh, I think I know.
Mike [00:43:19]:
I think. Because, again, also certain things, right?
Vemir [00:43:21]:
Like, yeah.
Eldar [00:43:23]:
And why do we actually know what.
Vemir [00:43:24]:
Are they when it's not painful anymore?
Mike [00:43:27]:
Yeah, I think. I think the question of maybe when.
Sergiy [00:43:29]:
You start noticing it's in a second nature, like, when you notice that you just do not like it. Suck nature. That time is when.
Eldar [00:43:36]:
You know, one example that we have right now with Catherine is when she went to her friends that she hasn't seen in a while or whatever.
Sergiy [00:43:43]:
Right.
Eldar [00:43:44]:
But she's been doing therapy for some time now, right. The way Catherine's been coming across to them, they're like, oh, shit, like, you've changed.
Sergiy [00:43:50]:
Yeah.
Eldar [00:43:51]:
And you've changed for the better. And we feel it and we like it.
Sergiy [00:43:54]:
Right?
Eldar [00:43:55]:
So that almost like. And she's like. And she was surprised by it, so.
Sergiy [00:43:59]:
But do you need other people to confirm?
Sergiy [00:44:01]:
Mm hmm.
Eldar [00:44:02]:
That's what.
Sergiy [00:44:02]:
Yes. You do. Yes.
Eldar [00:44:04]:
Sometimes you do. Because you don't see yourself outside of yourself. Sometimes, yeah.
Katherine [00:44:07]:
No, because you're like, yeah, from how.
Sergiy [00:44:10]:
My question was, when sign of progress.
Vemir [00:44:14]:
When is it?
Sergiy [00:44:15]:
When other people tell you when you notice it?
Vemir [00:44:17]:
When is a ridiculous question.
Sergiy [00:44:19]:
But we're just trying to figure it.
Vemir [00:44:21]:
Out like he wants to Chico.
Mike [00:44:23]:
No, but I think the reason. There is a reason for when.
Sergiy [00:44:25]:
Right.
Mike [00:44:25]:
Like, at least for my example.
Sergiy [00:44:27]:
Right.
Mike [00:44:28]:
This is a one step in the process.
Sergiy [00:44:30]:
Right.
Mike [00:44:31]:
So that I can feel good about then going to the next step.
Eldar [00:44:34]:
Okay, cool.
Sergiy [00:44:34]:
Yeah.
Eldar [00:44:35]:
If you're tying it to the next.
Mike [00:44:36]:
Yeah, that's the way I. So for my thing, you know, the way I thought about it, I think it's a, like. Yeah, I guess part of it is being a complete person so that you could then engage in the next step in your life. That's like. It's not just, like, that's the end, right? Like, it's not just go to the gym and just to go to the gym. I think there's more stuff to it. So the important question.
Vemir [00:45:02]:
I have a question on top of the question.
Mike [00:45:04]:
Oh, shit.
Sergiy [00:45:05]:
Layering questions.
Sergiy [00:45:06]:
The.
Vemir [00:45:07]:
The question is, like, are you more comfortable being yourself with strangers or people you know very well? It's not an easy question to answer. Are you more authentic with.
Eldar [00:45:18]:
Oh, that's a different question now.
Vemir [00:45:20]:
But it's an emergency, and authentic is two different things.
Sergiy [00:45:22]:
Okay.
Vemir [00:45:23]:
Are you more authentic with the people that know you a long time or new people?
Mike [00:45:27]:
How is that possible to be the latter?
Sergiy [00:45:29]:
No, because you could be yes to the new people. You cannot be used to the people.
Sergiy [00:45:32]:
Yes.
Sergiy [00:45:32]:
Owe you.
Vemir [00:45:32]:
That's not true.
Sergiy [00:45:33]:
400%.
Vemir [00:45:34]:
It's. That's.
Sergiy [00:45:35]:
I know all these guys for so many years. If he starts bsing, I know he's B's, what happens?
Eldar [00:45:39]:
You'll feel it. Right.
Vemir [00:45:40]:
However, what happens if you go away to Japan for two years, you've changed for the better, but you come back, they say, oh, it's the same guy, Sergei. I know him.
Sergiy [00:45:49]:
No, no, that's not enough time.
Eldar [00:45:51]:
I think with enough time, you know.
Vemir [00:45:52]:
But, like, which one is easier? If you meet someone new after you've changed, they accept you for who you are. Right there.
Eldar [00:45:58]:
How about this? Why are you asking the question?
Vemir [00:45:59]:
Oh, because I've had this conversation a long time.
Mike [00:46:02]:
Why does it matter?
Vemir [00:46:03]:
I'm just saying there's more resistance to people who know you for some way that it was. And also, I think men are taking longer than women to accept. By the way, this is my chip in the pot.
Sergiy [00:46:16]:
Yeah.
Mike [00:46:16]:
If you do it on your own, then probably.
Sergiy [00:46:17]:
Yeah.
Mike [00:46:18]:
But if you're doing it together, it's a different if you. Together.
Sergiy [00:46:22]:
Right.
Mike [00:46:23]:
If you, like. Like, actively working on a process and changing something in your life and you doing that. That with somebody else, a friend.
Vemir [00:46:29]:
Right, right. Or in a relationship, they will see.
Mike [00:46:33]:
It because you guys talking about all the time, actively, you know, working on that goal.
Sergiy [00:46:38]:
Right.
Mike [00:46:38]:
So I think that's different.
Vemir [00:46:39]:
Like, I feel like your family at, like, age 30 don't know who you are.
Sergiy [00:46:44]:
Shit.
Eldar [00:46:46]:
I would argue that they probably don't know for most of your life. They don't know.
Sergiy [00:46:50]:
No.
Vemir [00:46:50]:
When you're young, they're, like, moving along.
Eldar [00:46:52]:
Because you don't know who you are.
Vemir [00:46:54]:
Right. But so isn't that then pushing it to the fact that when someone meets you who is new, they're seeing you for who you are because that's the information they have. The other people are fighting against all the information.
Sergiy [00:47:10]:
About you.
Eldar [00:47:11]:
Yeah, I knew the first impression.
Sergiy [00:47:12]:
Sometimes people see me first impression. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Eldar [00:47:16]:
Exactly. Is a good example. I think.
Vemir [00:47:17]:
It's not clear, though.
Sergiy [00:47:19]:
Yeah.
Eldar [00:47:19]:
Serge is like a very nice guy. Could be a very good friend, very kind, very friendly. But every time somebody knew, he's like, yo, what's wrong with.
Katherine [00:47:26]:
People are like, something is up with this guy.
Vemir [00:47:28]:
He's ready to same thing. Like, my friend, he doesn't look like anything the way he is. And what's funny is, for me, people are intimidated by me. And then I open my mouth, it's like, completely different.
Sergiy [00:47:39]:
I built a shell around me because of how I was growing up, you see?
Eldar [00:47:43]:
So he could be misread.
Vemir [00:47:45]:
Absolutely. I'm saying that. Don't you think it's not a clear one or the other. Right.
Eldar [00:47:50]:
Well, I would say that the reason why I'm leaning more towards. Towards you, you can be more authentic on the stand. Authenticity a little bit more with the people that you know, is because at least I have the ability to open up. Open up myself and ask other people to open up in such a way where I can really get to know a person.
Vemir [00:48:04]:
That's the type of person.
Sergiy [00:48:05]:
Right. Yeah.
Vemir [00:48:05]:
Like, the people that you're around are, however, and changing your growth mindset. Those kind of people will readily accept changes.
Sergiy [00:48:13]:
Yeah. Okay.
Eldar [00:48:14]:
So that's what I think.
Vemir [00:48:16]:
So I think also in order to change and evolve, you need to be around people who are doing the same thing. Even if they're lovable people, if they want you to stay a certain way, they're going to hold you back and fix you mentally to that thing. Like, this exists a lot of different.
Eldar [00:48:31]:
Do you have a problem with that? You have an issue where people haven't updated their records about you?
Sergiy [00:48:37]:
Yes.
Vemir [00:48:38]:
I mean, I had a bigger issue, but I'm saying, like, I don't, like, remember we talked about dating or whatever, but it's like, even in any context. Platonic context. Like, why are you looking at her.
Eldar [00:48:48]:
Nippies while you say this?
Vemir [00:48:49]:
What's that?
Eldar [00:48:49]:
Oh, I'm sorry.
Vemir [00:48:50]:
Nippies.
Eldar [00:48:51]:
Why are you looking at her nippies when you say this?
Vemir [00:48:52]:
Oh, just a habit.
Eldar [00:48:54]:
I'm just joking.
Vemir [00:48:55]:
Just my habit. Sorry. My eyes are up here.
Katherine [00:49:00]:
Okay.
Sergiy [00:49:00]:
The.
Vemir [00:49:01]:
The thing is, like, I want people to accept me for who I am now. Right, but that's a tall order.
Katherine [00:49:07]:
That's.
Eldar [00:49:08]:
Yeah, but why?
Katherine [00:49:09]:
And you can't control.
Vemir [00:49:10]:
Because I've done so much work to be myself.
Katherine [00:49:13]:
We can't control.
Sergiy [00:49:15]:
We can't.
Vemir [00:49:16]:
But I'm just saying what I want. I'm not saying. I know that it's.
Mike [00:49:19]:
Why does it matter what they think about you?
Eldar [00:49:20]:
Yeah, I'm saying recognition, God damn it.
Vemir [00:49:23]:
Oh, no, no. Now you're going, this guy's. The gig is up.
Katherine [00:49:29]:
I agree with, like, for my family to know who I am.
Sergiy [00:49:32]:
Why?
Mike [00:49:33]:
Why?
Katherine [00:49:34]:
Because I would like to have. I think I would just like to have a better relationship with them as a person.
Mike [00:49:40]:
Knowing why is. Will guarantee a better relationship.
Katherine [00:49:44]:
What do you mean?
Mike [00:49:44]:
Yeah, if they like them knowing why.
Vemir [00:49:47]:
It'D be more authentic.
Katherine [00:49:49]:
No, not the why, just the now. Like, this is.
Mike [00:49:53]:
So what's stopping you from being yourself without making, like, an announcement?
Sergiy [00:49:56]:
That's the problem.
Vemir [00:49:57]:
They're not seeing it.
Sergiy [00:49:58]:
Hide a lot of things and.
Mike [00:49:59]:
No, but why if you carry yourself.
Sergiy [00:50:01]:
That you actually painted to them?
Phillip [00:50:02]:
Well, no, she's saying she wants the authentic. She wants the back.
Katherine [00:50:06]:
More authentic.
Mike [00:50:07]:
You want the back. So why can't you carry yourself in a way that's gonna demand more authenticity from them?
Sergiy [00:50:14]:
Why?
Vemir [00:50:14]:
Because you're fighting uphill, like, sounds like.
Eldar [00:50:18]:
You don't have the ability yet in order to present yourself authentically.
Sergiy [00:50:24]:
Something back, hiding something authentic with that people. And they're gonna paint you for who you're showing them.
Katherine [00:50:29]:
I think it would. It's easier when you're one on one with a person, but when you're with your family as a whole, it's just harder to get like that, personal.
Eldar [00:50:38]:
I think good things take time. Yeah, I think good things take time. I think that you're experiencing this change and this all authenticity thing from your friends right now, and you're getting that feedback and you're enjoying. You know what I mean? But it's a slow process, which.
Katherine [00:50:50]:
Which actually, with my friends where I, you know, express, like, you know, you know, more often, my family is, you know, I don't see them that often. There's not that opportunity to like, well.
Eldar [00:51:06]:
Then you don't really, you really want.
Vemir [00:51:08]:
It, so you don't want it that bad. A good test coming year next week.
Katherine [00:51:11]:
So I do want to have.
Vemir [00:51:12]:
Well, let's see what a good test of your character then is if your family sees you for who you are now, right?
Eldar [00:51:17]:
It's correct.
Vemir [00:51:17]:
That's a good test because that's a hard test.
Eldar [00:51:19]:
A hundred percent right?
Vemir [00:51:20]:
A hundred percent easy. I think that helps answer the question a little bit. Your character is more established when people who know you for a long time.
Eldar [00:51:29]:
Can have updated their record change.
Vemir [00:51:30]:
They updated the record. Akashic records updated.
Eldar [00:51:33]:
Hey, pen once cut this noise. Come here.
Vemir [00:51:36]:
Got this noise.
Eldar [00:51:37]:
Put your nippies on me.
Sergiy [00:51:38]:
Go to.
Katherine [00:51:38]:
Go to Uncle Philip. Uncle Phillip was calling you earlier.
Vemir [00:51:42]:
Okay.
Sergiy [00:51:43]:
Yeah.
Vemir [00:51:43]:
That's a good one, right?
Eldar [00:51:44]:
Yeah, but I'm not sure if you should be actively looking for it where it's like, this is what I want, some test, you know? It's a good test, but I'm not, I'm just not sure if you should be actively wanting that, I think.
Vemir [00:51:59]:
Because then you won't be authentic.
Eldar [00:52:00]:
Correct. What you should be focusing more, right. Is on your process. Your process is your process. And sooner or later, those who want to see, they'll see. They'll feel it, you know? I think you're ready.
Katherine [00:52:11]:
Aside from that, what I'm craving is just a more genuine connection from them. However, I don't actually think I'll get what I want from. From that.
Sergiy [00:52:20]:
Yeah.
Katherine [00:52:21]:
You know what I mean?
Eldar [00:52:21]:
Why not?
Vemir [00:52:22]:
Like, because it's so hard for them to do it, but no, for who?
Eldar [00:52:26]:
No, no, I think it's hard for you.
Katherine [00:52:28]:
It's on both ends. No, it's, it's, it's on.
Eldar [00:52:30]:
No, I think it's on my end.
Katherine [00:52:32]:
But then it's also, you know, what am I trying to get from a person that may or may not be able to give me, I guess what it is that I'm searching for.
Eldar [00:52:41]:
You just afraid to be authentic or set boundaries with certain individuals because you're afraid of the pushback that you're gonna get. That's what he said.
Sergiy [00:52:48]:
Like, I have. Sorry to interrupt you. I have that problem.
Sergiy [00:52:51]:
Yeah.
Sergiy [00:52:51]:
But once I have a bottle of beer or two, I'm more open with people, everybody, my family. So things I would like keep back after I have some relaxation, like in my bloodstream, like alcohol. I am more open. It's 100%. I'm always like, I have anxiety all the time. And like, after my thyroid issue. I had a lot of anxiety before that. After they gave me the medicine, I'm on the propanol.
Sergiy [00:53:15]:
My anxiety levels are almost zero. And I feel different. I feel like a different human being.
Vemir [00:53:19]:
After my health crisis, I had a long COVID. Also, my vulnerability was on full display for a year. So it's like, then you see people who are really rooting for you when it's hard, and then you realize, like, there's no risk of being yourself. So I think you're right. Like, it takes time, but it's like, there was a point I wanted to make there. Like, sometimes people don't know what to ask either. Like, I feel like, for example, I started research in AI, like, three years ago, which was unexpected. But it's like, my family doesn't know me as an AI researcher, so, like, there are people that are professional colleagues or friends that know more about my safety research than my family does.
Vemir [00:54:03]:
And I think that's fine based on their age or whatever else, their interest level. But it's like, I probably still want to be acknowledged by my family, who they love me, for the things that I value. You know what I mean? Why I'm saying it?
Eldar [00:54:17]:
How long I've been doing this business for Serge.
Vemir [00:54:18]:
It's a strong part of me.
Eldar [00:54:20]:
This over ten years. You know this, right? My mom and dad still don't know what I do now. No, my friends know what I do know that.
Sergiy [00:54:27]:
Sergey, how do you make money?
Eldar [00:54:29]:
This doesn't take away from the fact that I enjoy Serge's company. I know what he brings to the relationship, and we understand one another. Like, he might not know what I do or my accomplishments on, you know, on this level, or I don't know his level, but the authentic authenticity is there.
Vemir [00:54:46]:
So your character is how well you know how to.
Eldar [00:54:49]:
You know what I'm saying?
Sergiy [00:54:50]:
Yeah.
Eldar [00:54:50]:
Like, we go into a bar, and there's a fight, we know who's gonna act, right? How we're gonna.
Mike [00:54:55]:
Absolutely.
Eldar [00:54:55]:
And that brings me peace. That's all I need to know.
Vemir [00:54:57]:
In your brotherhood. Yeah, I actually have that with my friends, so, like, you know what? Friends. I told you before, you bring around girls, and you don't bring around girls. You know, friends who have your back.
Sergiy [00:55:09]:
Yeah.
Vemir [00:55:09]:
You don't even have to say anything.
Sergiy [00:55:11]:
Yeah.
Vemir [00:55:11]:
Like, when it comes to certain things, but there is a characteristic. It's like, okay, I guess your accomplishments are not made to be on display, but they could be.
Eldar [00:55:22]:
But I have to accept that.
Vemir [00:55:23]:
I have to accept that. First of all, like, you can't go into the like. I'm trying to avoid going into the nihilistic vacuum. Nobody will ever know me fully. You know what I mean? Yeah, 100%, which is true. But it's so hard to accept. Like, everybody has their archetype of Vermeer. Me, I have my own idea.
Vemir [00:55:40]:
So I guess building good character is maintaining your internal compass and serving that in any scenario.
Sergiy [00:55:48]:
Yeah.
Vemir [00:55:49]:
Is that like if I'm in front of my dad or a new girl or whatever, there's no change and there's no self sacrifice.
Sergiy [00:55:56]:
Yeah.
Eldar [00:55:57]:
To assume. To assume that you're gonna be understood by a lot of people is to like, is to be completely naive.
Sergiy [00:56:03]:
Yeah.
Vemir [00:56:03]:
I mean, it's also masochistic. You're expecting yourself to suffer.
Sergiy [00:56:06]:
You also don't want to fool people now because if you're gonna be with them for a long time, they're gonna know you were fooling them the whole time.
Sergiy [00:56:12]:
Yeah.
Sergiy [00:56:12]:
So you can. Well, I had a quick question while we were. You said, you know, you do the AI stuff, which I remember from last time I told these two fools that you could talk to chad GDp.
Sergiy [00:56:23]:
Yeah.
Sergiy [00:56:24]:
And you could make it change the. The way things by tricking it while talking to it. Yeah, of course they told me not remember I told you?
Sergiy [00:56:32]:
Yeah.
Sergiy [00:56:32]:
I had an argument with one for three something hours and I checked. After 3 hours, I learned how to trick it.
Sergiy [00:56:38]:
And now.
Eldar [00:56:38]:
Was it trick? Did you only trick it for your application? Can I go on there right now? And then she's gonna tell me your stuff.
Vemir [00:56:44]:
No, it's a drop in the ocean. Like it adds to the data set. But it's just one guy.
Eldar [00:56:48]:
That's what I'm saying.
Sergiy [00:56:50]:
No, but while having conversation with me, nose is having conversation just with me about that topic.
Sergiy [00:56:54]:
Yeah.
Sergiy [00:56:54]:
And I went different ways, like for 3 hours this way and that one this way, and she's still giving me the same answer. I was like. And I was like, you are biased. I was like, your answer is only they are reading, you know, the Internet. It's like, no, I'm not biased and I'm arguing with her. And in the end she started agreeing with what I was saying.
Eldar [00:57:10]:
Yeah, but the question is whether or not I asked those same questions about whatever it is that you were asking is she's going to give me your answer or she's still going to be biased.
Sergiy [00:57:16]:
No.
Sergiy [00:57:16]:
No, because it's not one brain answering to you, it's millions of brains.
Eldar [00:57:21]:
Then you didn't do it this.
Vemir [00:57:22]:
No, you talk it's not that separated, though.
Sergiy [00:57:27]:
It is a system. But that system could multiply itself a million times, right?
Vemir [00:57:31]:
It could, but what you're describing is.
Eldar [00:57:34]:
I mean, we could check.
Sergiy [00:57:35]:
Maybe you could go now.
Eldar [00:57:36]:
And when will AI know it changed its character?
Vemir [00:57:39]:
You put an input.
Sergiy [00:57:40]:
Yes.
Vemir [00:57:41]:
Which is a unique input. However, this input is going into its neural network, and from the neural network, it already has certain weights and predispositions, which is established from trillions. And then what happens is your input being unique, has a unique output, then your unique response. Then it's a unique conversation. How when he goes on to the next guy, he has a unique input, but it's still on this big mainframe.
Sergiy [00:58:06]:
Of, I think, how it works. If there's enough people who ask.
Vemir [00:58:09]:
Absolutely.
Sergiy [00:58:10]:
She will eventually date herself.
Vemir [00:58:11]:
It's mostly a democratic, uh, cha Chi is mostly on lib.
Sergiy [00:58:16]:
I saw it. I was like. I was like, you're biased.
Sergiy [00:58:19]:
Yeah.
Sergiy [00:58:19]:
Everything you gave me is what the news.
Eldar [00:58:21]:
What would be fascinating is that if she had the same conversation with me about the same topic you had, and then she would have, like, Asterik here, but this guy surge once made me realize this, and then I'm like, oh, shit. Okay. I'd like to learn more.
Sergiy [00:58:33]:
I think. I think it has to be pre programmed to think that way. Oh, I don't think it's pre programmed.
Vemir [00:58:39]:
That's called, like, updating weights, like, wherever.
Eldar [00:58:41]:
Advice.
Vemir [00:58:42]:
This is actually very hard to create.
Sergiy [00:58:44]:
If.
Vemir [00:58:44]:
I mean, even if you create, an unbiased AI will probably be banned for being too honest.
Sergiy [00:58:49]:
It won't tell you right away. You got to get rid of the human race. Destruction of humans. I think they recently said, we got to kill humans.
Vemir [00:59:00]:
I mean, sometimes it will come with that output. Yeah, I think that's very.
Eldar [00:59:04]:
Mike, are we helping you with this topic?
Mike [00:59:06]:
Yeah, it is. It is interesting. The answers are good.
Sergiy [00:59:09]:
Yeah.
Eldar [00:59:10]:
What was the problem you have in Mike? Because you had a specific problem about transitioning from goal to goal.
Mike [00:59:16]:
Yeah.
Eldar [00:59:16]:
After finally knowing that you're about this life.
Vemir [00:59:19]:
I have a good point here. Right before you answer, if you don't mind, your values only exist. Sure, sure.
Sergiy [00:59:24]:
Yeah.
Vemir [00:59:26]:
Okay. So your values only exist when challenged by others.
Mike [00:59:31]:
Yeah.
Eldar [00:59:32]:
If you respond.
Vemir [00:59:34]:
I'm saying that if you respond, you.
Sergiy [00:59:36]:
You.
Vemir [00:59:36]:
You can say, I'm this person. It only exists in action.
Sergiy [00:59:40]:
Yeah.
Vemir [00:59:41]:
So, like, your values are confirmed, challenged, or denied when you are presented with the, you know, chance to do them. So in terms of building your character, I would now put right before your response that it depends on in the moment when you act, not how you think, not what you write down as your beliefs. So that's why it takes time, because it requires experiential, you know, like, I'm. I'm not a cheater.
Sergiy [01:00:06]:
Okay.
Vemir [01:00:06]:
Try it a thousand times in context. Are you a cheater?
Sergiy [01:00:09]:
Yeah.
Mike [01:00:11]:
So you want me to give the example?
Sergiy [01:00:14]:
Yeah. Yeah.
Mike [01:00:14]:
So the example was. Right. So I'm trying to date. You know, go out there and date. And one thing that's been bothering me recently for, like, a little while is health. You know, I'm overweight, and I'm not exercising how I used to. I just don't feel healthy. I'm always tired, low energy, certain foods, like, they beat me up, like, I'm drained.
Sergiy [01:00:35]:
Right.
Sergiy [01:00:36]:
Old age. That happened to me after 35 AARP dating.
Sergiy [01:00:41]:
Yeah.
Vemir [01:00:41]:
No, yeah. I mean, the energy levels. I can definitely relate. So this is a frustration on your end, the way you view yourself.
Eldar [01:00:48]:
So, wait, wait, wait. He's got a point.
Vemir [01:00:49]:
So, yeah, excited.
Mike [01:00:51]:
So I was like, okay, so in order to get to a healthy place that I could feel good about myself and. And energized, you know, and go out there and date, be excited about it. You have the energy for it. I wanted to get healthy, so I had to have to learn about what is getting healthy mean?
Sergiy [01:01:09]:
Right.
Mike [01:01:09]:
So I have to do that. I'm doing that. I'm learning it more and more. But one, how do I know that I reached a place where I'm healthy, right. So that I can say, okay, now I'm ready to transition and actually start dating? Because this is one of the things that was stopping me from dating. So this was like a.
Sergiy [01:01:26]:
So self esteem.
Vemir [01:01:27]:
I think it's.
Eldar [01:01:28]:
That's a what?
Sergiy [01:01:29]:
Self esteem problem.
Vemir [01:01:30]:
Self esteem.
Eldar [01:01:31]:
Self esteem.
Vemir [01:01:33]:
I would say yes, because if you're.
Sergiy [01:01:36]:
Bothering you that you're not gonna date until you do that. The physical thing.
Vemir [01:01:43]:
Yeah.
Eldar [01:01:47]:
Maybe. Maybe it's something he doesn't have nothing to offer if he's low energy and he's not really happy about himself, like, it.
Katherine [01:01:55]:
I'm not good enough for x until I'm x. Like, I'm not good enough. Relationship or dating until I.
Mike [01:02:04]:
No, but I said I don't feel. I don't feel.
Vemir [01:02:07]:
You are saying I'm not enough.
Mike [01:02:09]:
No, I'm not saying I'm not good. If I said I don't feel good.
Vemir [01:02:11]:
Enough, which is what's the like?
Mike [01:02:12]:
If you're gonna tell me, if you ask, yo, let's go play basketball tomorrow and be like, no, I don't have the energy for it. Is that because I don't have self esteem or because I'm actually tired?
Sergiy [01:02:22]:
You need to sleep.
Vemir [01:02:23]:
I think you're also wrong, though. Like, in that scenario, like, usually I'm tired, then I join the gym or play soccer and.
Sergiy [01:02:31]:
Go ahead.
Eldar [01:02:31]:
Sorry. I think dating, especially dating with intention.
Sergiy [01:02:38]:
Right?
Eldar [01:02:39]:
And then having a very specific outcome where potentially you're dating for what?
Sergiy [01:02:43]:
Right, right.
Eldar [01:02:44]:
If you dating with the right intention, you're dating for what? Love, future.
Sergiy [01:02:49]:
Right.
Eldar [01:02:49]:
Relationship, wife and kids and. And the whole family shebang. So I think that. I think that there are certain prerequisites.
Sergiy [01:02:59]:
About that question is, can he sustain what he wants to achieve in terms of being good enough?
Eldar [01:03:05]:
Well, no, no, he sees that look, you know, just my energy levels alone, right. Are not gonna get me to a place where I think that I can be an adequate dater, let alone a relationship person, let alone a husband, let alone a family person.
Sergiy [01:03:17]:
Right.
Eldar [01:03:17]:
So there's a lot of things that make up us.
Sergiy [01:03:19]:
Like, the question is, can he sustain that?
Vemir [01:03:21]:
But none of those. None of those are.
Katherine [01:03:23]:
Yeah, like, what if. What if Mike. I'm sorry to interrupt you, but, like, what if Mike finds something, for example, that, like, helps him with his energy levels or how he's feeling and all that stuff? Like, would that make him an adequate person today? Like, I don't think.
Eldar [01:03:37]:
But I don't think it gives them an edge.
Vemir [01:03:39]:
It requires that you could join a.
Eldar [01:03:42]:
Support group and find the same person.
Katherine [01:03:47]:
Well, you can't find love at 60 when you're more tired. Do you know what I mean?
Sergiy [01:03:51]:
Like, I started dating Kai when I was young and strong, and now I'm 40. I'm in pain all the time. I have no energy for anything. She's gonna say, hey, you're not good enough. Get out of here. I'm gonna say, I'm not good enough. I'm gonna leave the family. I can do that.
Vemir [01:04:02]:
But that's not. I think we have. No, no, it's a good example, though, because.
Eldar [01:04:06]:
Yeah, but he started dating when he was. He was, you know.
Sergiy [01:04:09]:
Right.
Eldar [01:04:09]:
I'm saying, why did this come about in the first place? Two people were in a good place, right? Hot, young, all this, you know, a lot of energy, and they boom.
Vemir [01:04:17]:
But that's like what I said with Philip. Like, you go in with the intentions, like, damn, this person's hot. I'm trying to. And then you have a connection, and you build a family. That's not maybe what your original intention was, right? Your relationship might change over time. But in terms of your scenario, it's like you're the problem in terms of your perspective. Two examples is, one time I was not working out. I felt like I was overweight for my standards.
Vemir [01:04:40]:
I felt like shit. One time I got with this beautiful girl, I take my shirt off, she goes, wow, what a nice body. And I was like, she's fucking stupid or something. Like, I was wrong. My impression onto her was nice. But the thing is, like, should we be honest with ourselves? If you had a six pack jacked, it helps. Like, you now enter maybe a new essay. But then here's the thing.
Vemir [01:05:03]:
You disqualifying yourself early is what every guy who has trouble dating does, because they don't even try. They find some excuse and their self esteem. You should actually find someone now. And when you improve, it will get better. Like Jack Nicholson, for example. There's no physical qualities about him. It's his character that I mean, women fall over for him at age, whatever. So I would say, like you emphasizing on your physical health, you have to realize, like, if you're unhealthy, you will die earlier with a lower quality life.
Vemir [01:05:33]:
That's a really good reason. Exercise. But when it comes to these other things, like, I don't even think women prioritize physicality as the number one thing.
Sergiy [01:05:41]:
So it's your impression, only girls.
Eldar [01:05:44]:
His lone motivator is to work, to start dating for this? No, I mean, unless it is. I think he started to work out and wanted to work us because number one, he wants to feel good.
Vemir [01:05:52]:
I have a question number two.
Eldar [01:05:53]:
Then start dating. This is not like I'm gonna. The only reason why I want to do this is because I want to date. That's not.
Vemir [01:05:58]:
Have you had a feedback from girls saying anything about this? So what's the problem?
Mike [01:06:04]:
Well, I don't feel healthy. I can't enjoy doing the things that I want to do.
Vemir [01:06:09]:
In general.
Mike [01:06:10]:
In general, a lot, yeah.
Vemir [01:06:11]:
So in general, that's the main thing. But why is dating the thing that comes up?
Sergiy [01:06:15]:
Yeah.
Katherine [01:06:15]:
How does it link to dating?
Vemir [01:06:16]:
Oh, cuz I can link it for.
Eldar [01:06:19]:
You guys if you want. I mean.
Sergiy [01:06:20]:
Okay, good.
Mike [01:06:22]:
I don't feel healthy enough, right. So to do things that I want to do. Dating is definitely one of those things that I'd like to do. And I know it requires me to be in a good health, right? Not to be like a certain weight and have a six pack or whatever. That's not like the goal. The goal is to actually, for me to understand what is healthy. And, okay, what is healthy for me? And to feel that consistently.
Sergiy [01:06:44]:
Right.
Vemir [01:06:44]:
That doesn't sound correlated to dating, though.
Mike [01:06:46]:
And also that my mood is in a consistent place because, like, I don't want to wake up one day because I'm not being healthy and just be like, yo, I'm depressed. I'm fucking tired.
Sergiy [01:06:54]:
Right.
Vemir [01:06:55]:
So you're afraid of a girl leaving you because you're depressed.
Mike [01:06:58]:
Oh, no.
Eldar [01:06:59]:
You're not afraid of.
Mike [01:07:00]:
No, that's not what I'm thinking about now. I'm thinking about, I don't want to have those ups and downs in my own state of mind.
Sergiy [01:07:06]:
Life. Ups and downs are part.
Vemir [01:07:08]:
So you think girls will, you have a choice.
Mike [01:07:09]:
You have a choice of.
Vemir [01:07:11]:
That means you're hiding from girls, your dark side when you're struggling.
Sergiy [01:07:19]:
Sure.
Eldar [01:07:19]:
But if Mike is saying that, look, you know, I enjoy myself when I'm, you know, and I'm well rested and I'm, I worked out and all stuff, it's clearly adds to his mood.
Sergiy [01:07:28]:
His mood is.
Eldar [01:07:29]:
Part of his mood is to be funny, to be whatever, light and stuff like that. If you don't get good sleep, you don't work out, you don't take care, so don't eat good.
Katherine [01:07:36]:
That's, like, imperative for health. Not like, exactly for health, no.
Eldar [01:07:42]:
But for himself. He's clearly saying that, like, hey, I won't be able to sustain this. And I think, you know, until, I mean, he acts. I mean, I think it's part of it has to be where he wants to probably lead the situation, where he can sustain it for a long period of time, and then maybe he can relax versus just come in there and then get hammered by the person who's like, who's gonna dictate the fucking relationship?
Vemir [01:08:04]:
Have you ever picked up a girl while feeling like shit?
Sergiy [01:08:06]:
Or.
Vemir [01:08:06]:
It's only when you're in a good mood, I think.
Sergiy [01:08:08]:
When you feel confident.
Vemir [01:08:09]:
Yeah, exactly.
Eldar [01:08:10]:
You pick up. When do I pick up a girl? When you feel like shit.
Sergiy [01:08:13]:
This.
Vemir [01:08:13]:
I've done it.
Eldar [01:08:14]:
That's, that's weird.
Mike [01:08:15]:
You're.
Vemir [01:08:15]:
No, it's not. She was hot. The reason why is. Cause I didn't care. I was. You hit a point and then you're like, I don't fucking care about the outcome. And that actually helps you.
Eldar [01:08:27]:
Why are you picking up a girl in the first place when you're feeling like shit? Where's the like? Where's the like?
Vemir [01:08:31]:
Your friends want you to go out socially, you don't want to go cause you're feeling down cause you don't feel like you're enough. And then you get out and you go out, you meet someone.
Sergiy [01:08:38]:
You just got lucky. Once in a while.
Vemir [01:08:40]:
Yeah, I'm saying once in a while.
Sergiy [01:08:43]:
Okay.
Vemir [01:08:44]:
But I'm saying, like, in general, yeah, being solid and confident helps your probabilities, but it doesn't mean you have to, like, no, I'm fighting against this woman. I have to be fully ready until.
Eldar [01:08:55]:
No, no, I don't think that's. That's what he's saying.
Mike [01:08:57]:
No, I don't. I understand. Like, one day, like, some days I get bad sleep.
Sergiy [01:09:01]:
Right, right.
Mike [01:09:02]:
And it's not. It's not my fault. It's just my dog was waking up all night last night. He was having an issue. Am I gonna say, what do you want me to do? Just say, like, it's dead? That, like, no, this is a bad day, that it happens. It's out of my control.
Vemir [01:09:15]:
Gotta get through.
Mike [01:09:16]:
I'm not gonna say, oh, well, now I have to start over. Like, I need 200 days consistently of perfection, and then I'm gonna date. No, I understand. Things come about. I may fucking late. Eight late. This may happen. I may have drank late.
Mike [01:09:27]:
Like, these are normal things, but if I can't string along a good consistent. And I think that word is consistent.
Sergiy [01:09:34]:
Yeah.
Eldar [01:09:35]:
Oh, when it's hard.
Vemir [01:09:36]:
Also, where's your character when it's hard?
Eldar [01:09:38]:
Exactly. But it shouldn't be 90% hard because he knows the reasons why is because he's unhealthy.
Vemir [01:09:44]:
That's avoiding your.
Eldar [01:09:45]:
He should actually be 90% healthy and have 10% of ups and down.
Vemir [01:09:48]:
Okay with those sounds all good. What's the problem then? If you don't mind me asking?
Mike [01:09:52]:
What's the problem?
Eldar [01:09:53]:
He wants to know. He know that. That's why you posed the question.
Mike [01:09:55]:
That's why I posed the question in the first place.
Eldar [01:09:57]:
When do I get.
Mike [01:09:57]:
When do I know that I am healthy, right. And I'm in a place where I want to be, that I am ready to go to the next stage of my life and add something more. Maybe not relationships, but, like, I don't know.
Vemir [01:10:08]:
I think you just have to try. Like, knowing when you're ready is not like a prereq. Like, for example, you're in a job here. Some days you don't feel well. Some days you do, you still show up, you perform. Maybe you're not 100%, you're 60%, but it's like, same thing with women, you know? Some days you have a bad day with your girl. Or what? But, like, over time, like, if you think you're at such a low point that it's like you can't build anything, okay, give yourself the space. But it's like, you know, you have to go in imperfectly and figure, I.
Mike [01:10:38]:
Guess the thing is, in my connection is. Is. Is there for sure.
Sergiy [01:10:43]:
Right.
Mike [01:10:43]:
It's something that I want to have in my life.
Sergiy [01:10:45]:
Yeah.
Mike [01:10:45]:
Relationship. But this is a goal for itself in the individual, individually, to be healthy, a person, so that I can do things that I already do, that I extract, that I enjoy going. I would have for a little while, I was like, yo, I was going to the gym, but I was tired as fuck. I couldn't do anything right. I would be dead here on the couch, exhausted. I couldn't, like, you know, I didn't want to go to the gym, but I went, right. I want to get to a place where I feel like I have energy throughout the day. Obviously not every day.
Mike [01:11:14]:
I think that'd be great. But I'm also realistic that things sometimes come out of our, you know, you fucking go to restaurant, you get some bad food.
Sergiy [01:11:20]:
You don't.
Mike [01:11:21]:
You feel sick. Like, what am I gonna say?
Sergiy [01:11:23]:
Then?
Mike [01:11:23]:
I'm gonna, like, you know, kill the whole day? No, I'm, like, reasonable about things, that. That certain circumstances happen. I'm not looking for perfection, but I think a baseline of good health, consistent health for certain kind of time. I don't know what the time is. I think that's the reason I asked. The question is, how do we know that something is already solidified? Like, how. When do I get to the point that I could say, okay, I actually am healthy. I've been healthy for a while.
Mike [01:11:48]:
I feel consistently healthy, and I'm ready to, like, move on to the next thing.
Sergiy [01:11:51]:
And.
Eldar [01:11:52]:
And I answered, and I said that when the spillover starts happening, right. And the spillover is obviously when you around people, right? Like, you were around your friends. Now, you did enough therapy to be able to implement this therapy and everything that you've learned into action now. And now it's spilling over onto your family, or it's spilling over to your friends and, like, oh, shit. Spilling over to me.
Sergiy [01:12:11]:
Yeah.
Eldar [01:12:11]:
And now you have something to give.
Katherine [01:12:12]:
I think part of that, like, to response to Mike is like, it'll kind of just happen organically. It's not something that you have to force or, you know, like, my friend told me this, and I'm like, oh.
Mike [01:12:22]:
Well, yeah, the thing is, I asked that question. That question, I raised it first. I thought for myself, but I'm not at the point yet where I feel healthy or consistently healthy, because this is a very recent. But I also. My thought was like, hey, a lot of people probably are wondering the same thing that I'm wondering.
Sergiy [01:12:38]:
Oh, yeah.
Mike [01:12:38]:
Because, like, we have a journey in life. We have certain things that we're working on progressing, and there's steps along the way. You don't just go from zero to 100. You stop multiple times. And I think a lot of people will be confused about, hey, when have I, like, beat this level boss? That I'm ready now to take on the next challenge.
Eldar [01:12:54]:
A lot of people struggle with hopping from goal to go.
Sergiy [01:12:57]:
Yes.
Eldar [01:12:58]:
Without actually accomplishing a very specific goal.
Katherine [01:13:00]:
In a society that's very snacks.
Eldar [01:13:03]:
This, next. This, and next. Your attention deficit is so crazy that you. You're not building any character. All you're doing is you're talking about you want to set boundaries. You ain't shit. You haven't completed this.
Vemir [01:13:13]:
You escape when it's hard. There was one thing I heard in a podcast, and that's so good. He's like, I think. I don't know if it was Alex hormones quoting, like, when I'm in the hard moment, when I don't want to do the next thing, I think this is hard, and it's hard for a reason. It's because I'm growing. Most people quit at this moment, and I'm strong enough to push through this hard thing. This is hard right now, and it's supposed to be this because it's part of my growth process, roughly speaking. And I thought that was really healthy.
Vemir [01:13:42]:
You just acknowledge the moment where you're feeling the resistance, and you say, okay, this is why people don't progress, because they back down at this moment. And I'm going to continue because it's hard.
Eldar [01:13:53]:
Phone started jumping. What a day. Sweaty. God, I need it now. I can't afford to wait. I just had a fan hit me up from Kuwait, told him, this will happen, and we not a minute late.
100. Aligning Personal Goals with Identity: A Discussion on Consistency, Boundaries, and Personal Growth
Dec 15, 2023•1 hr 14 min•Ep. 100
Episode description
Are your personal goals truly aligned with your identity or do they simply exist as unfulfilled wishes? On this episode, we're discussing the magic of consistency and its power to turn your goals into a piece of your identity. We're sharing experiences, diving into the challenges, and examining the indicators that might point to new character traits that are here to stay.
Do you often find yourself setting boundaries, only to falter during your lowest points? We explore the role of boundaries in personal development and the delicate balance of maintaining them without causing harm to others. We delve into societal shifts, discussing how the fame and influencer culture can deeply impact the dreams and aspirations of the younger generations.
In the concluding segment, we navigate the complexities of balancing passion and motivation with physical fitness and career choices. We uncover the evolution of motivations and how the journey can often be more important than the destination itself. Also, we highlight how being emotionally ready for relationships and persevering through challenges can lead to personal growth. So, join us as we embark on this journey of self-discovery, personal growth, and the pursuit of finding passion and purpose.
Transcript
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