Krissy Cela On Finding Your Vision, Mission and Why

Krissy Cela 0:00 Why are you setting yourself up to fail? When there's so many people in this world already trying to do that for you? There's one of you in this world, you're in this world for a very short period of time. Whether you think is long or not, it's short do something magical in it. Ali Abdaal 0:15 Hello and welcome to deep dive the podcast that delves into the minds of entrepreneurs, creators and other inspiring people to uncover their journeys towards finding joy and fulfilment at work and in life. My name is Ali and in each episode, I chat to my guests about the philosophies, strategies and tools that have helped them along the path to living a life of happiness and meaning. In this week's episode of Deep Dive, I chat to Krissy Cela. Krissy first started posting fitness videos on Instagram and YouTube in 2017. While studying for a law degree, Fast forward four years and Chrissy has built a health and fitness empire with the mission to empower women across the world. Unknown Speaker 0:48 There's a huge problem in the world where women lack confidence, like I perceive that as a problem. Ali Abdaal 0:54 Krissy is co founder of the tone and sculpt app fitness clothing brand on her active and an internationally respected personal trainer. In the episode we have a very honest conversation about the foundations of leading multimillion dollar brands how to find your why and her book, do this for you Unknown Speaker 1:08 Do this for you, to me means prioritising yourself, and taking care of yourself and not putting yourself bottom on the list. And I think that people tend to really prioritise other people their needs, how other people perceive them, that you tend to kind of neglect what how you perceive yourself and where you prioritise yourself. And it's not even to do with other people. It's also to do with things like students always prioritise their study in before themselves in their health. Right, moms prioritise their children over themselves. People prioritise their job more than themselves. And it's like you come bottom to the list. And then by the time you want to do something for yourself too exhausted. Ali Abdaal 1:57 Yeah. And there's a real sense of martyrdom almost in a way where I think parents feel good that they're prioritising the kids and students feel like it's almost a badge of honour to have pulled an all nighter and to be prioritising your studies for whatever reason. I get I, I guess there is a balance that right like or how do you see? For example, for you, I imagine your your business is fairly top of mind and you're thinking about it a lot. Yeah. But also there's the taking care of yourself aspect. And do you ever find that the two are sometimes conflicting for that top spot? Unknown Speaker 2:27 I think I found a balance now. I've found a balance where it like I've said to my entire team, you know, I've said to, to my personal assistant, like no meetings before 10 o'clock. And I've made that very clear to everyone. And I've said I wake up at 530 in the morning, and waking up at 530 in the morning to prioritise my health, and myself. So I'm in the gym at six o'clock in the morning. I'm there training an hour, sometimes dependent hour and a half if I really have the time, but maximum one hour in and out. You know, I'm eating my breakfast. I'm going through my emails. I'm reading some sort of book in the morning. So when I get to the office, I'm ready to give you my 110% attention. Because had I not done all those things. I'm then going to have this constant battle of oh my god, I haven't trained today. I haven't prioritised myself, I haven't done anything for myself. And then by the time I do go home, I'm so exhausted. I'm so overwhelmed. I just want to lay on the on the sofa and watch Netflix. Yeah, and that. That's not really doing something for me to bettering me. Ali Abdaal 3:37 Yeah, so I guess you've got those four and a half hours in the morning to do the new stuff. And then you can focus fully fully on the business. Yeah, like Unknown Speaker 3:43 even My commute is an hour, sometimes an hour and a half. So in my commute, you know, I tend to take my dog buttons with me so she's always on the train with me. And you know, it's quite nice doing that together. But I'm always even reading something listening to some sort of podcast, I'm getting myself mentally prepped for my team. My companies as much as people think my companies are about me they're not my companies are about the people that drive the mission and the vision. It's about the employees every single day coming to the office working from home dedicated their time to make this vision come true. So if I'm coming into the office expecting everybody else to be on their A game, I have to be on my A game. And I can't come in and be angry or emotional over you know, just just not be myself. And there has been too many moments. I've done that. And it's caused a really big division in the company. It really has because I've come in thinking I can be the way I want to be. Well, no, I'm a leader. I have to be collective I have to become I have to, you know, prioritise my team over my own emotions, and I've learned that the hard way. Ali Abdaal 4:57 Oh, interesting. Any But what was there one occasion in particular that that helped you helped you learn that lesson? Unknown Speaker 5:04 I don't think enough leaders actually speak about this. I think there's so many entrepreneurs and CEOs, leaders, whatever. And they come across, like, they have their shit together, right? Like, they've just like, they're the karmis people in the world, like they've got it all figured out. And the truth is, every leader is different. There is no handbook to be given to how you should be as a leader. One thing you should always have is empathy for the team that you're working with, and one thing you should always have his patience. And I was never patient. Okay, I, when I started turning, sculpt, or on or active, I was never ever patient. I was actually way too emotionally connected to both brands that I used to take everything personally. Okay. And now as the years have gone on, especially with Tony Scott, because it's much older than our active, I have to take a step back, and I have to go, this has nothing to do with me the mission and the vision is so much greater and bigger than any emotion I have. Ali Abdaal 6:11 You talk a lot about vision and mission. Yeah. When did you figure out what your vision mission and stuff was? And how did you figure that out? Cuz that's a big question. Like, it's a question of, What do you want to do with your life? Yeah, I Unknown Speaker 6:23 mean, look, it's not been till very recent, that I'm 110% focused on that vision and mission. Now. At first, I was a bit like, what is the what I know, I'm, I want to do something here. But I can't put my finger on. I couldn't put my finger on it. All I knew and was certain on for years was I wanted to help women. Like I was certain on that thing. Ali Abdaal 6:52 How did how did you get certain on that? Because that's also quite as it's, it's not so specific. But it's like, it's a very specific kind of kind of grace. Yeah, Unknown Speaker 7:01 yeah. The reason being is when I started my Instagram, and my YouTube, I was doing this for myself, right. And then I was connecting with all these women globally, saying, I don't have time to go to the gym, I don't know what I'm doing. I feel so rejected. So neglected, I feel like I'm just letting myself down. And I realised there was such a need for women to come together. And there was such a need for fitness to be in women's lives, it was like it was, it's a need, like there's a there's a huge problem in the world where women lack confidence, like I perceive that as a problem. And I perceive Turner sculpt as a solution to that problem. So to me, I don't like the fact that there's so many women out there who are not body, body confident, who are not mentally confident. I don't like the fact that women don't know what to do in their fitness journey and feel really left left out or alone. That's a huge problem to me, because your health is the key to any form of success. I cannot stress that enough. Like if you are not mentally and physically okay? It will transfer it will transpire into every aspect of your life, your relationship, your work, your passion, your vision, everything will cloud you. That's why I say do this for you and prioritise yourself first and then bring your best foot forward for everything else. So that's why I knew I wanted to help women, but I didn't know how I was going to do it. Okay. So when I launched a tennis club that when my business partner Jack, I sat down and I just said this is it. We are going to make a fitness hub. That is community orientated first, then fitness led secondary. Oh, interesting. So that's why community is our vessel. It's our heartbeat. It's our core. We every decision we make, we asked what would the community need and want first, our core values and none of our core values hold a profit lead value. It's our core value to return and sculpt actually the following so long as there's women in the world, our business to make women feel confident and better their lives is not done. The second one is actually more team lead. So it's we have to treat each and every single single team member with integrity and honesty, accountability, everyone's accountability for is with each other and with themselves. Third one is community lead. So our communities are driving force to everything that we do. So if they do not like something, then we won't do it. It's as simple as that. Fourth one is customer support. And fifth is innovation. Okay, so profit is not even in our list. Profit is like the last thing we actually think about and that's genuinely we don't really, we don't even shove numbers down. All employees froze. We say, Okay, there's women in this world, your job here isn't done. So I'm trying to build an organisation not just a social hub. Ali Abdaal 10:09 Yeah. Interesting. I want to ask you more about the value thing in a moment, because we're literally going through that sort of value stuff with our team now, because we've got, like, this week behind seven people's we're now in 19. Unknown Speaker 10:20 Wow, actually, Ali Abdaal 10:22 yeah, but ever people, like, you know, you make YouTube videos watching 19 People like, well, you'd be surprised when you when you draw the org chart, and you see all the holes. But before we go there, I want to ask about the early days. So you were posting workout workout videos on Instagram? What was the growth? Like? How did things start growing in the very early days before you knew that this could become like a career for you? Yeah, I Unknown Speaker 10:43 mean, huge growth, huge growth. And like I said, no one was really doing what I was doing, and a handful of creators were doing back in the day. And, you know, if you go on YouTube, about 10 years ago, it was heavily bodybuilder orientated. So you had people trying to be bikini bodies. And, and people were genuinely selling Bikini Body guides, and they were selling bikini programmes, and it was heavily based on being on stage as well, and being a professional bodybuilder. And I just didn't fit in. Because I was like, oh my god, I just want to go to gym to escape my reality. Like, literally, I'm so sick of my life. I just want to go somewhere and do something for myself. Yeah. And that's when I started posting. And all my captions were like, hi, like, I went to the gym today. And I did a few squats. And I felt so much better. How about you do it too, and it was very, like, I it was very premature. And it was very like, it was it was very, like vulnerable. And it was very authentic. It was it was genuine. And I remember when I was growing, I was a waitress at the time, and a law student. And I grew to about 120,000 followers and woman's best approached me women's best as the biggest female supplement brand in the world. They're huge, absolutely massive. Now, like I think their evaluation will be close to a billion, so that they're massive. And they approached me and I got an email saying, Hi, we love your Instagram, like we'd love to work with you on a collaborative basis. And I said, I've never really tried your supplements. I'll give them a go. And I'll see what's what, because I'd never done a collaboration before. So I didn't know how it works. I've never had a manager till this day, I don't have a manager. And so they sent me supplements after three, four months of testing them. See what like what didn't like give them honest feedback. My problem is I'm a bit too honest, for my own good. I set my mouth sometimes, but how? And I was like, Yeah, I really like it like this is you're on something good here. I like it. And I was finding myself having the supplements more often than I would because I enjoyed it. And it was there to supplement the diet I'd already had, right, I didn't rely on it. And then women's best gave me enough funds monthly to quit my job, I still remained a law student I when I start something I need to follow it through, I just am just like that. And I started posting more often, like they supported me, you know. And at that time, I'd reached about 600,000 followers and Jim shark came knocking on my door. And I actually rejected the first contract. They didn't want to work with them. But I didn't really understand it a bit at the start. And then when I got to know the brand a bit more, and then I got to know, you know, that they had a vision to you know, they had a mission to I started I started working with them. It was short lived. But I'm so thankful for the opportunity, I'm so thankful that they gave me the opportunity to travel the world with them and meet so many community members. And I'm so thankful for the learnings, so thankful for the opportunities that they gave me with photoshoots with meeting other peers with meeting such incredible minds. And you know, even though it was short lived, every opportunity is absolute blessing. And it makes me so happy to see brands genuinely succeed at the rate that they have when I started when they were quite small. So it just it's inspiring, because it's like, if they can do it, we can do it. That's the way I perceive it. Yeah. And yeah, the growth was substantial. I I hit a million followers within I think two years and then straight into 2 million followers a year after. Now on to 2.5. The growth is definitely different because the market is utterly saturated now and take Talk is obviously just come in from God knows where. But that's why I can't stress enough that I'm not chasing the grove. I chasing the fact that there is only one Krissy Chela didn't know what I'm trying to say like, I'm going to share with you my own thoughts are my own vision. If you like it great. If you don't, that's no problem. But I'm not going to follow trends anymore. It's too draining for me Ali Abdaal 15:25 in the early days. That's a kind of going from like, like Akina 00 to 100,000. Was it a case that you were sort of just just sort of posting stuff? Because you felt like it? Or did you feel Unknown Speaker 15:34 like it? No, I felt no pressure, okay, no pressure, I felt like I really enjoyed that I was posting daily, I was posting everyday at five o'clock, everyone knew what they were getting. It was a workout video, or it was a picture. It was some sort of food as well. Everyone knew what they were getting, like they knew what they were getting. I was posting regularly, I still post regularly now I've never stopped not posting regularly. But it was just very authentic. Ali Abdaal 16:01 chasing some kind of anything I could get to a million if I did more. Unknown Speaker 16:06 Not not then it wasn't until I probably hit about 300,000 followers, where I was like, like, there's substantial growth here. I think at one point I grew, I was growing like 10,000 a day. Yeah, it was ridic It was ridiculous. Honestly, ridiculous growth. And, and yeah, I mean, I was I was chasing the growth then. Okay, so then some of the decisions were very growth lead instead of authenticity and being true to myself lead, such as such as like, oh my god, there was a stay a phase where peers would ask each other to repost each other's pictures on their stories and gain more followers or like for like on, and you would ask like big accounts to post you. It was very heavily numbers driven. And I lost sight completely because I was just like, the bigger I am, the more brands will want to work with me the more guess what I don't work with any other brand. But my own and women's best and I've been working with was best for five years. I don't do any paid collaborations. I've even told my PR team don't give me paid collaborations. I don't want to do it. I'm not interested in it. Even if they give me a million I'm not interested in it. Unless it's a brand that I've like lived by for like 567 10 years of my life Ali Abdaal 17:22 in those early days, as you know, you go from being kind of waitress plus law student into suddenly having this enormous following on the internet. And, and it's within the field of like being a woman and doing the fitness stuff. That's got to be a lot of pressure, a lot of baggage pressure, like what was that experience like? Cuz you're like a normal or normal university student who seemed to have stumbled into this, like incredible growth. Unknown Speaker 17:47 I think there's a lot of pressure because I was young, I still am young. But you know, when it all started, I was early 20s, like an early 20 year old is like doing things they'll regret when they're 30. Or you know what I mean? I'll talk about 150 and laugh about it with their friends. And at uni, I was a bit of a loner. I was a bit of a lone I had probably one or two friends. I remember this girl called Giuliana, she was so lovely and like always so welcoming. But I just kept myself to myself, I was working full time I was trying to get my law degree and I wasn't working full time I was trying to grow my own personal brand and, you know, trying to grow my community. So I was so focused because it didn't feel like work. It felt like a passion. University to me was actually almost like my escape from the career I was trying to build and it was a lot of pressure. But I'm so thankful that everything has happened the way it has happened. I'm so thankful for the mistakes I made with Turner's sculpt in the early years I'm so thankful for, you know, being in a relationship with Jack who is my business partner still to this day. And I was with him for five years. We were engaged, it didn't work, but we still sustained tone and sculpt together. And we have so much respect for each other like he he is one of a kind, you know, and yes, it didn't work romantically but we share the same vision and mission. So our emotions come secondary for one another because we have a bigger role in this universe. Ali Abdaal 19:27 Will you ever worried about what your uni friends would say about the fact that you're posting workout videos and Unknown Speaker 19:33 not give a shit sorry, he didn't give a shit. He was like yeah, I'm gonna I'm not gonna I'm not even gonna lie like I don't care. I don't care what I didn't care what my team fought of me when I was a waitress and posts in Instagram it is I didn't care what my professors thought of me when my university friends formatting care like I loved it so much that I didn't count on my dad as Balkan, right? My dad comes from Albania. He's a strict dad. When you're around my dad growing up, you can be wearing miniskirts, and you couldn't be like, doing things like that, right? So for my dad to go on Instagram to see his daughter in shorts, like Mike pro short squatting, and it was a bit much for him like it. Like he hated it. He sat me down, he goes, You need to stop like, this is this is not good for our family. And I was like, No, I don't care what anyone has to say. Like, I'm so sick and tired of people trying to dictate who I'm going to be. And for so long, I let my previous boyfriend do that, like the one that cheated on me, for so many years dictate how I felt who I was going to be how I should be treated. Since then I fought no way it happened once. I'm never letting that happen again. Not by friends, not my family, not my co workers. No, but not by found like partners. Nope, not by nothing. Ali Abdaal 21:04 That's a pretty remarkable level of confidence to be I do all of that. And just like, reach Unknown Speaker 21:09 that level one. Like, if you don't like me, yeah, no problem. If you do phenomenal. Let's get dinner together. The bottom line is, we should never ever, ever judge someone for trying to look good in the world. Like I wasn't doing anything wrong. I was. I'm genuinely trying to look good in this world. I'm trying so hard daily, to build two brands that prevail. Women's confidence, man, when you put on are active on you're like, Shit, I look good. I feel good. I look good. I'm trying to build a platform with Tony Scott, where a woman's confidence just skyrockets. I'm trying to look good in this world. I'm not doing anything wrong. So if some judge that that's on them, not me. Ali Abdaal 21:51 See, as you said earlier on that one of the issues that you want to kind of solve is a women's under confidence. Yes. I imagine a lot of people in your community are in that sort of beginner stage where they can't imagine having that level of confidence where you can just I don't know, post a workout video and not care what other people think. What do you think sort of the and you've got a chapter in the book where you talk about this, but what would you say are the are the steps for someone to get to that level of confidence where they're comfortable putting themselves out there? And in that capacity? And I guess I'm asking because because a lot of people who watch this channel and listen to the podcast, they're interested in becoming creators in some capacity. But the number one question when we ask people, what's your biggest challenge of being a creator? It's, I'm scared of what my friends and family will think I'm scared of what my mom's gonna say scared what my cousin's will think scared of what people in school are gonna say, well, at uni or my job, I'm scared. I'm not going to get a job. 10 years down the line when people discover my YouTube channel, all of these fears around what other people will think how, yeah. Any any thoughts? Unknown Speaker 22:52 I think if you're to ask you doubt what you want to do, or you want to put fear as your main driven emotion to what you're doing, you're setting yourself up to fail, that you've already kind of just, it's almost like when people start their fitness journeys, right, they go, oh, yeah, I'll try it. But I know it's not gonna work. Yeah, like you've kind of and then when it doesn't work, because for whatever reason, they go, I see. I knew I knew when work. So this is how I there's no point in me doing ever again, you're already setting yourself up to fail. Like, why are you doing that to yourself? Why are you setting yourself up to fail? When there's so many people in this world already trying to do that for you? My there's already other people in the world judging you. Why are you going to add more unnecessary pressure to yourself, right? There's one of you in this world, you're in this world for a very short period of time, whether you think is long or not, it's short, right? Do something magical in it, do something so extraordinary, that it makes other people want to do it to they makes other people want to go? Damn, I want to give that a go because she did it or he did it. And yes, you're gonna have judgement. So be prepared for it. Like people will say, What are you doing on my own dad sat me down and was like, What are you doing? Like, it's embarrassing. I'll never forget that conversation. Now he's living his best life because I bought him a home and new teeth. Like Like, you just have to go for it. You have to go for that leap. You have to get that that that passion in you and drive yourself forward, because it's such a waste if you don't, yeah. And also like, what would you tell your kids? Like if my daughter came to me and was like, Mom, I'm gonna start posting on Instagram. I don't know how it's gonna go, but I'm just gonna give it a go. I'd be like, go for it. Do you want me to go record? Yeah, go for it. And people are forgetting now. Like there's tick tock stars making millions a year and making careers For Life and there's YouTube stars, like literally going to, you know, the Met Gala or whatever it's called and sitting down with some of the most influential people in the world. These are now jobs like they're real jobs. People, unfortunately don't want to become lawyers anymore. They want to become a trainer online help him with millions of women. Ali Abdaal 25:25 So speaking of the law thing, so you see finished your law degree, but you decided to not do the lawyer thing, because you had all this other stuff going for you? Was that a difficult choice that you made at the time? No, see this thing? Okay. Unknown Speaker 25:39 I was so I don't know where this confidence comes from. One day, someone's gonna come knock it the hell down. But I was so confident. Yeah, I was so like, Ah, this isn't what I want to do. Like, why am I even entertainer like, my job on this planet? My duty on this planet is to help women Okay, that's, that's, that's my that's my driving force to help women. So I'm not gonna entertain anything else. Like I haven't entertained anything else. I'm so tunnel vision. Ali Abdaal 26:11 So okay, so it's it's it's the early days the Instagram account has grown is growing. You've got the deal from women's best. Yeah. And how how did you decide the next step was to do tunnel sculpt, Unknown Speaker 26:21 I gained my personal training qualification because I thought to myself, if I'm putting this out on social and I'm essentially telling people how I live my life. I want to be able to advise people further and be well more educated and rounded. So I got my level two and my level three qualification. So I was all qualified in that field. And the thing is with me, I'm quite addicted to learning. So even outside of school, I was actually a pain in the ass in school. No teacher like me, but one. So no, they actually never thought I'd get to uni. So okay, yeah, here I am. But whatever. I did it to myself. But anyway, I was always addicted to learning, but in my own way, I never liked being told what to do. So I hated that. So I always liked learning, though, I really enjoyed it. So I started learning about fitness and how the body works and nutrition and just was so intrigued by it. That I was like, You know what? I'm going to build an app. I'm going to build an app. Ali Abdaal 27:24 Did you have like a coding background or anything like that? No, no, no, no, no. How did that. So at the time, a random thing, just decide to do right. Yeah, Unknown Speaker 27:31 yeah, no, we had PDFs, we had started PDF, then digital visual Ali Abdaal 27:36 platform, we're gonna take a very quick break to introduce our sponsor for this episode. And that is brilliant. I've been using brilliant for the last two plus years. They're a fantastic platform for learning maths, science and computer science with engaging and interactive online courses. And the great thing about brilliant is that they really teach stuff from a very first principles based approach. It almost like the way that we were taught in places like Oxford and Cambridge, where you learn a concept, and then you apply the concept to an interesting problem. Rather than just being spoon fed stuff like we initially learned in school. My favourite courses, and brilliant are the computer science ones. As some of you guys might know, I was torn between applying to medicine and computer science. I went for medicine in the end, but I always had an affinity to computer science and taking the courses and brilliant, like the Introduction to Algorithms and the introduction to Python really helped me get more of a grasp of computer science than I've ever had before. It's also great for learning how to code which is an incredibly useful skill to have, especially if you want to start a business. And I attribute like 98% of my business success, to the fact that I learned how to code when I was in secondary school. So if you want to check out the courses on math, science and computer science, then head over to brilliant org forward slash deep dive, and the first 200 people to sign up, that link will get 20% off of the annual premium subscriptions. Thank you brilliant for sponsoring this episode. Unknown Speaker 28:44 I built my app with a third party. Oh, how did that go? Yes, with a third party. And they tried to fuck me over big time. Oh, and so they tried to take the app away. And basically say that they own everything, and I only own the content. Okay, who wants to own a content on an app? Yeah, that you want to own the data, your code. So if you're out there building an app, data and code and interface is the most important thing that you can have not just the content you put in like the pic pretty pictures and the workouts, you know. So after like 50 grand in legal fees, and one relationship broken mind my fiance's way out was officially ours. So mine and Jax because it's completely owned by us now. Ali Abdaal 29:32 Yeah. What was that like when you when you first found out that they were there was Unknown Speaker 29:36 no official contract. And when the contract was given to me with my background was a law student I read through it and knew this was wrong. And I just would not agree to the terms. It was after they made the operative. Oh, interesting. The app was already made already launched. Ali Abdaal 29:50 Okay. And then they give you a contract saying oh, by the way, we we own all the entire content. Yeah. Unknown Speaker 29:56 And I said no. Okay. And what happened next Well, the app wouldn't have survived if I didn't promote it, right? Yeah. So the app is mine. Just because you build the coding, no problem, I'll pay you for that. But you can't tell me you're gonna own my app for the rest of my life. That means like all the new trainers, we've brought in hundreds and 1000s of women subscribed to the app, you're telling me you own all that? Yeah, that wouldn't also make the community feel comfortable. That would make the community feel really uncomfortable. Knowing that this third party had all this information like no, now it's 100%. Owned by tonus called we are self funded, we've, we're not with any other parties, we own everything. We protect everything. We protect our community. It's in our hands. So if we mess up, it's our fault. Okay. Yes. Nobody else's fault. I can't run to someone and blame them. It's my blame. So Ali Abdaal 30:49 So is that why you decided okay, you know what, we need to fight this, we're gonna embark on this, like messy legal battle type Unknown Speaker 30:54 hydrations. And I was happy to go down 1050 100 I was ready to sell my house. Like I genuinely was ready to sell my house. hand on my heart. I know, my mom was like I was I looked at Jack at the time. And I said, I don't care. I'm not losing this app. I will sell this house. I will sell a car. We will go live back with your mom and dad. But no one has taken this thing away from us. Because this is purposeful. Like we have something is we have something so legitimately powerful for this world. I'm not giving that up. Like are you crazy? Never. Okay, so yeah. Ali Abdaal 31:33 How did you win the win the battle in the end, Unknown Speaker 31:35 Palace probability was more towards my favourite. My, towards favoriting me than the other party. Ali Abdaal 31:43 Okay, so were they like, Did it go to like a jury and all that? But no, Unknown Speaker 31:47 we settled eventually, because I just said, Look, I'm ready to sell my house. To get the best lawyer there. We did really genuinely have the most amazing stories, my lawyer, but yeah, and I think it's important for people to hear this stuff, because a lot of people think it was just like Happy Days. More Happy Than bad, of course. But, you know, like, a lot happens behind the scenes that that's why I'm so passionate about toners sculpt, and if anything, my passions grown more, and it just I'm so consistent in the same goal, like I'm consistent in believing the same thing. It hasn't changed since day one, Ali Abdaal 32:26 huh? Okay, awesome. So you've got the app now. And then you launched the interactive sportswear brand? Or was about a year ago? Unknown Speaker 32:33 Yes. Uh, yeah. marks in September 21. That was a year, Ali Abdaal 32:36 what was three behind that? How do you decide that the next step after after the app, the community was your own your own clothing line. Unknown Speaker 32:43 So the next stage after that, for me was okay, so I'm a woman in fitness. I train every day, I have a community of 1000s of women training with me, let me make them more so look extraordinary. Like, I'm helping you feel extraordinary. Let me make you look extraordinary. And I thought it was really powerful to have a woman, you know, create clothing that women want to wear, okay. And I thought there was something really powerful behind that. And I thought that there was something really clever behind that. And every decision we make on our active is really, yet again, community led, but it's also our core value is to make products that make people feel extraordinary and performance and day to day activity. So how do we do that? How do we make people feel extraordinary? Is it the colours we choose? So internally, I've built a formula called the colour formula. So we ensure that every colour palette we use complements every skin tone in the world. And like there's a huge project going on behind the scenes where we're even going to bring in the skin specialists tell us what colours we should never go for. So regardless of me dying tomorrow, I set in stone that these colours should never be used, but you can go towards these colours. So that means everybody can can feel extraordinary in the colours we use. How about the fix? Okay, so it's our duty to ensure that we have a fit for everyone. How do we do that? Well, I'm really like, proud to announce that in December, we're going to launch our first double XL range. So it helps even more people felt short Neri so loads of the decisions we make are hugely calculative. And hugely based on our core value. Ali Abdaal 34:42 How do you figure out what these core values were? Unknown Speaker 34:45 Or you just have to ask yourself the questions are why are you doing this? Like? It's very easy when you ask yourself, why are you doing this? i You sit yourself in a room and you go, why did you feel like Tony Scott was needed in this world? Or why do you feel like There wasn't enough already out there. Yeah. And then you start listing all these things and you're like, yeah, those are values. Okay? Like, why did I feel the need to create honour active? With my business partners? Like, why did I feel the need to do this? You start really seeing it all come to life. There's insane brands out there brands that genuinely inspire me daily. I just think the bottom line is, I'm so community orientated. And I want to listen to women's, and potentially one day men's needs to just give them what they need and what they want in the book. Ali Abdaal 35:39 I think so is one of the early chapters, you talk about finding your why. And your reference Simon cynics book, start with why, I wonder when it comes to sort of new entrepreneurs or people starting out either in entrepreneurship or being a creator? To what extent do you think it's important to start with, to start with that mission or purpose, because Unknown Speaker 36:00 it's very important, it's so important, it's so important. If you are starting a brand, if you want to start a brand, like if you don't know your why just don't do it? Like I can't stress that enough, if you are starting a brand to make money are like, no, no, you should never start a brand to make money. If your core if your if your core ideology is profit. If your core value is we aim to make 100 million in the first five years, if that's your number one core value. I'm not saying that shouldn't be a core value. I'm saying if that's your number one core value, you're going to plumb it, because every decision you make will be profit led, not mission led, there's a complete difference. So you need your why you need to know why you want to start why you want to start what is the reason? And it's a very big question to ask yourself, because you'll start understanding that it's deeper than what you first perceived. When women come to me and go, I really want to lose 10 pounds. I go why? Why did why? Tell me? Why? Because I really want to know why. Oh, because I know I look better. Okay, but why does that matter? I know I'll feel better. Okay, but why? But why but why? Truth is that bride that wants to lose 10 pounds for her wedding day. It's not that she wants to lose 10 pounds is that she wants to feel confident in her wedding day. So actually, it's not about the pounds, she loses it's the effort she's putting in daily to feel confident on her wedding day, there's a complete difference. So that y is going to keep her driven longer than constantly stepping on the scales and seeing those numbers not shift. Ali Abdaal 37:42 I think it's similar on the let's say, if someone wants to start a YouTube channel, if you if you do it for the sake of wanting to make money from it, it's really hard to keep that motivation going to sustain that if you do it for the sake of chasing views, it's really hard to keep going. But if you do it for like, Unknown Speaker 37:57 get really sad, you're gonna get you're gonna think you're not good enough, you're gonna cross compare. You're gonna just never be satisfied. I've been there like I can genuinely speak from experience and you're going to completely and truly fuck your mind up. Ali Abdaal 38:13 So one thing one thing I was I was intrigued about, well, you sort of your one of your sort of life philosophies. That sounds like a grandiose way of putting it but one of your life philosophies is that you don't seem you seem not. You seem to not care about goals. And that really resonated with me, because I also think goals are a bit overrated. And it's more about the journey rather than about the destination. And that's something I've been I've been like spilling on my YouTube channel for the last like four years. And I read that in the book, you said something along that effect as well that like, you know, it's it's less about the destination. It's not about like the motivation. It's not about the goal. Yeah. Elaborate on that. Yeah. Unknown Speaker 38:48 Motivation is so overrated. Like, what? Oh, she's just, like, charming and just dislike Shut up like a hater. She's, she comes one day, she leaves another day. She's there in a moment. And then I'm like, where is she gone. And then it's just like, I can't be bothered with it. And I can't express enough how you need to stop liner motivation and start relying more on building consistency and discipline in your day to day life. Motivation is not something that you can sustain for the rest of your life. Because there's going to be moments where you don't want to get out of bed. There's going to be moments where you want to eat your favourite pizza and watch Netflix and skip the gym totally fine. There's going to be moments where you actually don't want to come to work, even though it's your biggest passion because you're tired, you're drained, you're exhausted mentally and physically. But consistency is what makes you go I'm gonna go to the gym, but I'm going to come back home also and eat my pizza and watch Netflix with my partner. I'm going to go to work but only for two hours. You know, it's it's that's what consistency is to me. Ali Abdaal 39:54 Okay, because my sort of like showing up showing up. Yeah, Unknown Speaker 39:57 because motivation to me is either Ali Abdaal 40:00 Okay, yeah, I need a motivated to go for that five camera like, like yeah, Unknown Speaker 40:04 yes. Okay, because this is see to me as if I don't want to do it one day, I'll go for a little bit. Okay, I'll give it a go. Yep. If I don't want to show up fine, I'll take my meetings from home. It's more flexible. It's more understanding. And I see these components as actual humans. That sounds really weird. But I see motivation is like this sassy diva. She sometimes wants to go on stage and give her best show. But sometimes she just wants to tell her team to go away and she's not going on stage. Then I see consistency as like this really like humble, genuine person that wants to help you. And I think people need to start perceiving certain elements as personas, because it will make you kind of distinguish which one you want to aim for more. Yeah. Which one you want to build a relationship with? More Ali Abdaal 40:58 interesting, okay, so it's in the wake in the morning, your alarm goes off at half past five. And you're thinking, Oh, I'm feeling a bit tired today. What do you what do you tell yourself to and this was Unknown Speaker 41:08 the other day for me? Actually, I my alarm went off at half five, ironically. And then I was like, it's cold. It's dark. I'm in England. Like it's too cold now. Yeah, like, nearly November, and I was I'm so tired and I want to go to the gym. And then I said to myself, right? Listen, Chrissy go to the gym today. If you'd feel like this tomorrow, give it a mess. That's what I said to myself. Like, and I did today, I didn't go to the gym. I didn't go to the gym, I was still so tired. I gave myself an extra two hours sleep instead. And that's what I needed. Yeah. But if I'm doing that every day, that's not good. Ali Abdaal 41:48 Um, one thing I wanted to ask you about is you talk about how we should move towards, and Steve, Steven Bartlett talks about this as well, kind of helping your foundation do it for you that kind of stuff. But realistically, I mean, certainly for me, the reason I go to the gym, like I would love for it to be for my own health and for myself. But a big part of it is because I want to look, I want to look better, I want I don't know, I want girls to be more attracted to me kind of stuff. To what extent Unknown Speaker 42:21 do you know that that's your driving force, then fine. Like, that's not a bad thing. I just want to I just want to say something, because I think a lot of people think that it's a bad thing to have a physical goal when it's not like, it takes roughly three months to incorporate a consistent habit into your life, right? If your goal for the next three months is to look a certain way, because you want to make a chest six pack abs, whatever. Great. But guess what, but behind the scenes, whether you like to think or not, you're building that consistency. Yeah. So when you get those abs, you're still going to go still gonna it's gonna be part of your life now, right? So if it is a physical goal that's driving you no problem. But behind the scenes, you're still building that consistency. The only thing I would say is if you're not getting that result that you want to see, or when you're stepping on the scales, and you're not seeing a number shift. And then you're doing a 360 and completely give it up. That's that's a problem. Because then it's not you're not, you're not taking the time to build that consistency. I can't stress enough that if something is not sustainable in your life, you shouldn't be doing it. So if you're pushing yourself to do two hours in the gym every single day, and that's not sustainable for your life. Yeah, stop doing it. If you can only train at home with a set of dumbbells for 30 minutes, do that instead? Ali Abdaal 43:49 Yeah, it's not really about the short intense bursts that lasts like a week, because that's actually not going to have any impact at all. Exactly. Consistency rather than intensity. It's always interesting. There was something you posted on Instagram, I think it was in the last week or so where he it was like a screenshot of your body a few years ago versus now. Yeah. And you were highlighting some of the comments you got around. Before what, and I think you talked about in in one of the videos, or in one of your stories about how men don't really get that. Like, you know, if a guy posts before and after no one's commenting. Oh, bro, you look better before. What does that kind of feel like from from your perspective? And like what? I just want to try and try and understand what it's like being being a woman in the space. Because you're dealing with that side of things that men just don't deal with? Unknown Speaker 44:41 Yeah, I mean, look, there's a concept called billboard bodies. And it's almost like if a girl has a six pack and then they sell in a six pack guide. That six pack guide will do really well because there's a billboard to prove. Okay, that's the that's the product you'll get right And men use that a lot in this industry. So a lot of the really like chiselled guys incredible physiques use their bodies as a way to promote their product. That's what I do. That's what I have done. You know, everybody in the fitness industry does that. But I can't stress that enough that that's just one aspect of it, not all aspects of it. So when you look at those before and afters, that's why in the caption, I was saying that before I was actually mentally exhausted. I was not okay, I was not happy. I felt just not great. But the after is a byproduct of the years I've put in to not only better myself, physically, but mentally as well. No one reads captions. They're looking at two pictures side by side and going you look better before. Yeah, you know? And that's fine. That doesn't affect me. Like, no, it doesn't. Okay, no way used to not anymore. But I think for females, I can sit here and say, it's more difficult for women than it is for men. But the bottom line is, I could always also use the fact I am a woman to huge, a huge advantage. Okay, as in, as in the community I've built of women. Can a man build a community like that? For women? No. Like, I've used the fact that I'm a woman, to make other women feel really confident in my space, to make them feel at home to make them feel like they're part of a family. And I'm so thankful that I am a woman. Because in my industry, I was able to do that. Ali Abdaal 46:39 Hmm, interesting. So you've got this like, although it is harder in that sense, in that you're dealing with these comments which dudes might not deal with, you also have that kind of unfair advantage, as it were, yeah, of being able to build this, this like, Unknown Speaker 46:51 you will tell me that they like my before, I'm just happy to see a woman lifting weights and like the the tags I see every day, like I see every single Instagram tag. Yeah, I go for all of them. And I replied to them, and I love seeing them. I see women in the gym, I see them with their best friends, I see them with other trainers got community members, and I'm just like, This is it. I love it. Ali Abdaal 47:16 Nice. Um, I want to end by talking about the book a little bit. So how to know what was the story behind the book? And like, how you got the book deal? And what was the story? Like, what was the story there? Unknown Speaker 47:28 So look, the book is one of those things where it's a reminder, like when, when people open up, do this for you, I want them to end this book with a reminder to do this for themselves. And I give you loads of analogies I give you loads of like, you know, it's very much so I point something out, and then I give you an example. So if you're if you like reading stuff like that, it's great. So I point a situation out, and then I give you an example of that situation to help you further kind of expand your understanding. And if you have read it before, I can't encourage you enough to go back and start making notes. Because each and every single chapter will force you to think right. And I see so many people in this using this book, and I see post it notes everywhere. Because they're just thinking out loud. They're like, Oh, yeah, what about this? What if I do this? What if I do that? It's a it's a thinking book. It's not a book where I'm telling you what to do for for seven days, how to eat how to train. It's a book where I'm telling you to think about your why in your fitness journey. And to remind you of your why. Ali Abdaal 48:37 Yeah, nice. So when did the publisher like approach you for it? Or did you decide? Unknown Speaker 48:44 Or how did that work? For I'd write book. I'm not gonna lie. It was like, I'm actually a little bit dyslexic. Now a lot dyslexic. Okay, so I find it very easy to speak, but I find it really hard to write. And actually, the person that helped me write this book was a community member. So her name is ahora. Yeah. And she was Ali Abdaal 49:05 in the acknowledgments of the end. Yes, Unknown Speaker 49:07 she was one of the original Tony Scott crew, and community members. And I met her because I invited her on set. And we just connected. She's completely she's one of a kind, like, I've never met a person like her. And I knew my strengths were the skeleton of the book. I know, her background is teaching. And her background is like writing. So I said to her, help me write it your you know, my voice, you know, my tone of voice, you know who you are, who I am, and I know who you are. So we did it together. And I'm so happy we did because I got her perspective on it as well like how a committee member would perceive it. And then me as a trainer, how I would write it Ali Abdaal 49:54 Yeah, so I guess you're writing the book for your community members. So that's like Unknown Speaker 49:57 I was this biography, right? Yeah. But then the beginning is a bit but this is a help book. This is me trying to help you Ali Abdaal 50:06 what was that process of getting all the ideas onto the page and figuring out okay, these are the I don't know club chapters that we want like how do I easy Unknown Speaker 50:12 for me because I was a bit like I kind of it was things I talk about all the time like it's things I always discuss all the time. So it was nothing out of the extraordinary for me like you know chapter one find your why lose your excuses maximise your time form healthy habits is what we discussed. shift your perspective is what we've discussed, believe you can we've discussed, find your tribe, which is your community, all these things mean you've discussed. So it comes very natural. It was just about making them fit perfectly in the book. Ali Abdaal 50:45 How did you do that, like in the thing of making them fit, because it would be very easy for it to turn into sort of a messy, messy BuzzFeed, listicle kind of thing. But as I was reading, I was like, Oh, 1.8 like, it flows really nicely, Unknown Speaker 50:58 because every point is kind of the same. Okay, if you think about it, like finding your wire not making excuses, they sit hand in hand, your first thing you need to do is find your why like, why are you doing this? Second thing to do is right now let's drop all the excuses behind your why write? That thing is okay, let's find the time to execute your why. Yeah. So everything goes back to the why your tribe? Who is your tribe, and why are they your tribe? So everything always goes back? Back Back to that why? And that's why do my book was cool. Find your why. But there's one out there called Find your why. Yeah. So Ali Abdaal 51:37 yeah. wasn't much of a struggle coming up with the title. Unknown Speaker 51:40 No, no, come on. Do this. Yeah, it just, Ali Abdaal 51:43 it just fits so nicely. I mean, so I'm, I'm writing a book at the moment. And it's been such a struggle to figure out what the hell to talk Unknown Speaker 51:49 to you. But you have to find your life first. Yeah, that's the thing. I would say, you know, I would take a day off work. Yeah. Like, just tell your team you know what guys crack on with work, I'm going to just don't contact me. And I would just go sit in a coffee shop. Wherever you feel comfortable, don't do at home. It gets too comfortable at home. And I would just list all your whys. I'd list all your whys why you want to do this? Why you want to be here? Why you want to put this out in the world. And you'll start just write your site free writing, like it'll just be so natural to you. And then by time you realise it. Two hours have gone by, then you're like taking compartments brainstorming concepts. Yeah. By the time even as four hours have gone by the next day, you've got your you've got your title. Hmm, give me a picture. Ali Abdaal 52:39 Okay. I will actually do it. I'll actually try that. Give it a go. You never know why the why exercise because I spend so much time sitting in coffee shops thinking, what's the title gonna be? But I've never really taken a step back to Unknown Speaker 52:52 it. Yeah, you to dissect it, you need to really be like, why am I even writing a book? What is the reason behind this book? Yeah. Why am I even here? Because you start asking yourself your life's big questions. Yeah, but they're really great questions, because they start getting your mind to think some of the decisions we have with Tony sculpt and on our active I always go to Team okay, why? And they don't realise that I'm asking them a really big, quite big question. Because of the way I'm saying this. I'm like, Okay, why? Yeah. And I had to drop it in there. And then they go because of this, this this is, imagine a go tell me the why. They're like, Ali Abdaal 53:28 Oh, shit. Yeah, that sounds like a big deal. Unknown Speaker 53:30 So I'm like, Yeah, okay, some of you why, like, why, why are we doing this? Then they don't realise that I do it every single day to them. Okay. They don't realise like, I go to my design team. By the way, sometimes I know the answer. Yeah. And I'll go to my design team. Why are we doing that? That line there? I know the answer. Yeah. I just want to hear how they perceive it. Okay. Ali Abdaal 53:51 So I sort of sometimes do this with my team and and occasionally team members will get frustrated that I'm, I'm not trusting them enough. I'm questioning their decision. When I'm asking, you know, what's, what's the rationale here? Why, why are we doing it that way? Do you get that sort of thing at all from your team? Unknown Speaker 54:07 Why are they getting frustrated over you asking why? That encourages conversation that encourages you to collaborate together that encourages you to share each other's thoughts? That shouldn't be offensive to them. This isn't new trusting having a trust issue with your team. This is you just genuinely wanting to understand their thought process. Yeah, I always sit and talk to my team actually, sometimes when we over collaborate, like sometimes a little bit. Like guys stop now. Okay, but it is so beautiful when you see people come together like my favourite thing in the world is when a can a worm is opened up in the office. Yeah. And the questions thrown out and I'm like, Guys, what do you think about this and I do it on purpose. I go, guys, what do you think about this? I'm unsure. I know the and they're like, huh, they start talking. And then they start deliberating. And then they start constructively arguing. And I'm like, amazing. This is it. When you bring people like minded with the same vision and mission in one office, and they're just at it in a healthy way, they're at it in a very respectful, constructive way. And you come out with the best possible outcome. If your team doesn't challenge you. There's an issue, you should challenge them. And they should challenge you. I've had so many team members before, but my team does not kiss my office, I can't express that enough. And my team will say no to me, I'll say no, we need to do is they go? No, we need more time. Or they'll go, No, we can do it sooner. And I'm like, No, we need more time. And I'll go, they'll go, No, your team should be able to do that with you. They should be able to see you as someone that they can collaborate with not be afraid of. Ali Abdaal 55:55 Yeah, I guess when you when you started building a team, you probably didn't have much experience of managing and leading. How did you learn that stuff over time? And I guess go What mistakes did you make Unknown Speaker 56:07 that so many learn from it, that so many mistakes, like, no one tells you that people people are going to be your biggest problem, or they know what? No one tells you that no one tells you that stuff is gonna be your best reward, but your biggest issue as well. And I've learned on the job, and I've literally faked it till I made it. Like I've not I don't have a mentor. I don't have like this hidden, handy book I've learned as I go along. But I can't stress enough to you that the team you have are people. They're not machines, they are people. And they require empathy. They require respect. And they require to have purpose. Okay, like you have to treat your team, like people. And so many corporations forget that people want weekends off. Forget that people have children. And I'm so thankful that it's very rare for me to ask an employee to do more than they should. But they want to, they want to do more because they believe in what we believe in. And what I believe in, they genuinely like believe it's so much that they get emotional if it's not done. So like the other day, we were picking colours for 2022. And Lisa had designer on an active has a child and I said go home not What are you doing? Oh, no, no, no, it's fine. I'll just stay. Yeah. Like she genuinely wants to stay not because I was there. But she was so in treated by what we were doing. And that's because I've shown her so much respect. And I've shown her so much integrity and transparency. And I've said to her like I don't fucking understand this. Can you teach me? Or I've said to her like, Lisa, what do I do? I trust you. Can you help me? You have to give people purpose. Okay. You have to say to your team, I trust you to do it. Yeah, go do it. Let them make mistakes. Okay. I guess I just learned along the way. I don't know where I got it from. Ali Abdaal 58:14 What are some things that you did very wrong in the early days? Yeah. Unknown Speaker 58:17 Yeah, of course, of course, I made so many mistakes. I some of the mistakes I made was I got too involved with my team, like, saw them was friends less as employees. One of the mistakes I made was, you know, just taking things too personally. One of the mistakes I made was also like my reactions to things like I remember, especially during this whole legal battle and my ending of my relationship, which is no excuse. But to put it in perspective, I would sometimes have major outbursts, and I would shout, and that's not good. That's not good at all. You know, and I've come to the, to the realisation that it's not about me. And it changed, it has changed over time, and it will continue to change. And I have some really great people around me to come into my office and say, maybe deal with things differently next time. No, nice. Interesting that my team does not kiss my ass. They might laugh at my joke. What Ali Abdaal 59:23 do you say? Do you do you do like goal setting and like metrics and stuff for the team? Unknown Speaker 59:30 Right now, tone of sculpt is way more structured than non interactive, simply because it's got years more years they're not away on or active is in a very transitional period right now. Like we're hiring a lot of exact department team leaders, which will come in and put KPIs in place. We're in a period as well, where we've we've had a lot of growth. So we're trying to catch up with that growth with the right team members. So the first year we made 10 million revenue, so to have to make 10 million with a team Yeah, 10 million revenue with a team of five people. Yeah, that's insane. That's, that's also not good. Yeah, it's scary because it's like, we need more processes. We need more team members, we need more suppliers like. So right now the team is more focused on building more relationships with suppliers that that have great ethical processes. And we we want to work with them, building more of their internal teams. So we hired a great head designer, she was actually head designer for sweaty Betty for 10 years, which is incredible. So she's come to honour active, which is huge success for us, because she's absolutely amazing at what she does. Yeah, so she's now building her team. When she builds her prices and her team, she will then build KPIs and goals Ali Abdaal 1:00:42 and whatnot. How do you think about for like, exactly the leadership positions, promoting from within, like the five people you got started with and sort of making them the exact team versus bringing in people from from the outside? Unknown Speaker 1:00:57 Everyone you hire should be great. Like everyone you hire, should be so fucking good, that they're able to come in one day to your office and go, I'm leaving, because I'm going to start my own brand. And I go, off you go. That's how good they should be. And I can safely say that, with both brands, we have great people. And, you know, great people that will get huge promotions going forward. Because I don't want to just bring someone else in. Because they've been great in another brand. Okay, sure, that might work for some people. But for us, it's like, no, we have some great people here we can nurture. And if we have great people that maybe require 1x, one more year extra to be incredible. Let's just wait a bit. Ali Abdaal 1:01:49 Okay. So you wouldn't hire someone in a position to kind of above them, you would give them that time to develop into that position? Yes, Unknown Speaker 1:01:55 I would give them that time to develop in that position. But it depends who they are. So for example, right now, for interactive, we're in the process of hiring a creative director. So that creative director is going to be an exec, that this huge, big exec role, right. So they will come in, but they also they already have kind of a team built underneath them. But then, you know, I have an operations manager on an active who I see as my right hand and one day I do you see her as an incredible exec role, you know, that could lead a team without me there. Okay. So it depends who it is. It depends who you have internally right now. Whereas we have a graphic designer OA as well, who I see beyond the graphic design, I see her more as an art director, you know, yeah, but I need more from her. I need to test her a bit more. I need to give her a few more fires to take out and see how she handles it. But I know she's capable. I don't want to just bring it bring people above other people. I want to give them time to prove themselves, you know, okay, because then your team just feels like there's no ladder. There's nowhere to progress. There's nowhere to go with the brand. And they just feel stuck. And you don't want people to feel like that. Especially not your your, your first hub of people. Ali Abdaal 1:03:09 Hmm, interesting. So with with Honorata, for example, the brand is going growing like ridiculously fast. Presumably, when you got to that point of 10 million revenue with five people. I imagine you would have been like, Oh, crap we need we need to hire all these people all at the same time. Unknown Speaker 1:03:24 We already had the process. So high a very, very, very, very slow, hire slow. Fire fast, right? Ali Abdaal 1:03:31 Yeah. People say that. Hire slow. Yeah. Unknown Speaker 1:03:35 Take your time. Understand people like when I hired my head designer, I was COVID times I couldn't meet her. But I just had a call with her face to face. And we spoke for about two hours. And then I and then when restrictions were a bit okay. I said come to the office, like, Come and see what the team is like the entire team was there and I was asking her to fit me. Okay, throw them in deep and see how they react. It's a culture thing as well. Do they fit in your culture? Because my culture at OA is nuts. Like the team is crazy, crazy as in like, just a whole bunch of wild pitches like that just they're just a big family. Like, they just love the brand. They love the community love the ethos, but we are you could see we're like, We're family. Like it's a bunch of cousins. It's so bizarre because like, we respect each other so much, but we also can go and have a crazy wild night out and have the best memories. And if someone comes in and can't really fit that culture, it's going to be a bit hard on on the rest of the team. There's different personalities we have introverts extroverts, we have people who like working alone, people like working in a team, but our our ethos is the same. Okay, cultures are quite similar. Ali Abdaal 1:05:01 So how do you how do you assess for cultural fit before someone is part of the team? Unknown Speaker 1:05:05 I throw them in the team. Okay. So when they so me and my operations manager will actually discuss in this and new processes of hiring. And from now on when we interview someone, we want to interview them in the office, pretty much like, we have an open plan. So they're not they don't go to my office, they go to the sitting room wherever the team can hear. Ali Abdaal 1:05:25 Oh, interesting. What does your hiring process look like at the moment? Unknown Speaker 1:05:29 So right now, at the moment, we're headhunting a lot of people. Okay. But because we need to really accept roles. But right now, like we've taken interns on as well, and we've found interns and deepened, and we've been like, you wanna you want to work with us? Yeah, let's do this. Let's go, okay, everybody's paid. Like we don't take interns on not pay them. Like, we don't believe in that sort of stuff. Everybody needs to love the job and needs to love the brand. And they need to believe in the brand. If you do not believe in the brand. And you're just here for salary. I will suss that out. I will suss that out. Okay. It's very easy to suss out when you've got a great team. Ali Abdaal 1:06:12 So with tone and sculpt, I imagine in the early bit, because with interactive, it sounds like you've already built a business once. And so maybe you had some of the processes in place that you could like copy and paste, whereas Unknown Speaker 1:06:25 Okay, everyone thinks everyone thinks that it's like, oh, you've got one brand. So it's just like completely different brands, completely different brands. What interactive has China's got blacks what Turner's cooked has on our active blacks. So what I mean by that is the processes, toner sculpt has, and the infrastructure on our active doesn't have currently. So we're building that we're starting to wear baby like, we're one years old, like Jesus give us give us time, you know, Ali Abdaal 1:06:53 but but with the, you know, five people in 10 million revenue, you know, that's like, ridiculous levels of growth Unknown Speaker 1:06:59 isn't it's scary, it's not the best thing when you grow that fast, trust me can go up and go down. So it's better to be a bit more steady, okay. But on our active has a lot more. I would say, creativity, okay. And more focused on the mission. And then we've turned us cop because there's more of us in need, there needs to be a reminder, because there's like, triple the people there. So you have two more actually, yeah, there's going to be at the end of the the end of the year, end of next year will be about 60 people don't have scoped. So you have to ensure that the execs of that company filter through to the rest of the team, the core mission, the core vision, and it can't be forgotten. But because OAE is so small, you can't forget it because you're speaking about it every day, an open plan office, Ali Abdaal 1:07:52 you know, and how would you split your time between the two. Unknown Speaker 1:07:55 So I actually have a free story office on active sits top and two floors down two floors are toner Scott. So I'm Ali Abdaal 1:08:04 speaking of time management, we're going to take a very quick break to introduce Ries who are sponsoring this week's episode. Rice is a desktop app for Mac OS and Windows that helps you understand where your time is going while you're browsing the internet. By automatically tracking the time you spend on apps and websites. They've got some pretty slick features to like smart break notifications that let you know when to take breaks based on your activity. And they also give you in depth analysis of how you're dividing your time between deep work meetings and all that jazz. So you can find out where you can reclaim your focus, optimise your time and be more productive. If you fancy trying it out. I've got a cheeky promo code where the first 1000 signups will get a 25% discount off of their first three months. Just type in Ali Abdaal in caps rise, also offer a 14 day free trial so you can test it out beforehand, so there's no reason not to give it a go. So thank you very much rice for sponsoring this episode. Now let's jump back into the conversation. So what is like your day? Let's say you wake up and wake up at five do the gym trainee breakfast commute stuff until 10. Unknown Speaker 1:08:58 And then the opposite 10 first meeting is at 10. Okay, so yesterday for example, I had me in 10 till six. Okay, no break. Ali Abdaal 1:09:08 Well, why do you like that? Unknown Speaker 1:09:12 I like to I like to eat for 10 minutes. But yeah, it's like, one after the other. And it's like, I cannot be late. You have that time with me. Tell me what we need to do. Tell me what we need to work on. If you go over my time, sorry, I've got to go. I have to be very like cutthroat Okay. Unfortunately, even though the conversations great, I've got places to be and people to see. Ali Abdaal 1:09:38 So is that what most of your days are like sort of back to back meetings till lunchtime back to Unknown Speaker 1:09:42 back to back meetings or if I have anything like out of my ordinary schedule like this, for example, but it is back to back and then I have a nine till 10pm slot where I review documents in the evening. So I'll get home. So I'll get to Office at 10 then I'll leave the office around about seven. Okay, now, and then I get home about 815. And then I'll eat. Say hello to my partner at 9pm. I'll crack on with more work till about 11 Yeah, rest back at Ali Abdaal 1:10:17 it. Well, that's quite a schedule. So you get like six and a half hours of sleep each night. Six hours. Yeah, six hours. Do you find that works for you? Unknown Speaker 1:10:25 Yeah. Nice. And weekends, I sleep more. Okay. But it works. It works. It works really well. It depends. Like I'm a woman as well, like, time of the month. I need more rest, you know? Um, but yeah, it works. Well. I do have a I do crash 3pm. Okay. And like, I'm like, oh my god, where's my caffeine and like, I I do actually find myself laying on the sofa. And the team has to have meetings with me laying on the sofa sometimes. Because I we actually bought a little sofa bed downstairs of tennis courts like a big bed. So sometimes like with tone sculpting, or Tom just sit there with me. And sometimes I do shut my eyes. I'm still listening. Okay. But I listened I take everything in. But I have a role like emails can't be too long. I can't I can't sit there and read emails all day. Meetings can't be longer than I tried to keep me 30 minutes at time. If they're really important one hour. I also tell Terry, my personal system like I have to have Fridays as a creative day where I think yeah, and I go to the brands and I look at the roadmaps and I shift things around, I change things, or work on weekends as well. I tend to have Saturday's off by work Sundays, Ali Abdaal 1:11:43 okay. And I guess you live your life by your calendar. Yeah, the way you do wake up and like, okay, cool. That's what I've got. Yes. Or the case of shit. That's what I got. No, Unknown Speaker 1:11:51 no, I wake up. Right? This is what we need to achieve. Great. Ali Abdaal 1:11:55 Let's go. Well, Unknown Speaker 1:11:57 yeah. You don't run two companies by having free time. Yeah. But like today, for example, you know, it's been a little bit more relaxed. It's been a bit more. My mum and dad were home. So it was a little bit more chilled. And I, I had my meetings at home in the morning, and I had three meetings. And then I had, you know, to revise a few contracts on the train. And then I came to the office, we did a nother meeting and then a product review with a team. Yeah, now here. Okay, I do have an appointment today. So that's great. Free time. Ali Abdaal 1:12:33 Are we good? Are you gonna review contracts while doing that or Unknown Speaker 1:12:35 stop me? So there's every time I go to the hair salon. Unknown Speaker 1:12:42 My hairdresser, let's say for seven years? Yeah, he he's like, I've got your charges ready for you? Oh, amazing. dinos do like I'm sorry, I'm trying to I'm trying to run like two incredible brands. Time is like money, honey. Like, I gotta go, go, go. Hustle, hustle. Ali Abdaal 1:13:01 Changing gears a bit. I was listening to your interview with Steven Bartlett, which was just under a year ago. Oh, yeah. And in that, I think you were single at the time. And you both talked about how you're difficult to date. And then I saw your video from a few months ago where you kind of revealed Your, your new partner and things. And I wanted to ask like, it's, it sounded like when you were talking to Steven, you were kind of struggling with a dating thing. Feeling like work was the priority and stuff. But now at least from from what I've seen on YouTube, it seems like you're thriving in this new relationship. Unknown Speaker 1:13:36 What's always the priority, okay? Why cuz I you know, I am so happy in my relationship, like, I I am so happy. I've met Brett and he's just, he is everything i i. He is everything that I could want. And he's patient. He's calm. Yep. He calms me. He makes me laugh. He's understanding. He has never once said to me, babe, can you get off your phone? Okay. He's never said that. He understands that I have a job to do. And I have a purpose to fulfil. And at the beginning, it was a bit hard to explain that to him. He doesn't have social media. He is He has a PhD in chemistry. Like he works in a lab all day. He's a very like his home home family man. Like, that's what he's like, his b loves his family. And he loves like being with his brothers and his mom and his dad and, you know, being at home with me and my dog. So he didn't understand the complexity and the velocity of how important these jobs are and what my role was. So what I decided to do was bring him on set. Okay, so I bought him on set and I, you know, brought him around the team and then he would spend like a day with me and kind of see how my day was, and he was like, what And he realised how intense it was because at first instance, he thought I posted selfie sort. He was like, oh, so what do you do like post selfies? So then Ali Abdaal 1:15:10 I was like, yeah. When the it seems like he's in a very different industry to you. I mean, apart from that he has his arms. absolutely huge. Yes. How did you guys meet in the gym? Oh, Unknown Speaker 1:15:20 I saw him and I was always a bit of me is a wise bit handsome. And then one thing led to another, we got speaking, he wasn't interested in me. Okay, at all. He was so focused on his PhD completing it, but he was not interested in anyone. And I was like, Okay, no problem. We won't talk. I'm not chasing. And then we didn't speak for three months, and then we kind of paths collided again. And then we got speaking. He fell in love with me. No joking. We both like fell for each other heart. Really? Really? Really? Hardly. Yeah. And yeah, we've been together now about a year and a bit. But when I was speaking to Stephen, it was a three month gap. Ali Abdaal 1:16:04 Ah, oh, that's what Okay, got it. Yeah. So it will make sense Unknown Speaker 1:16:07 now. Oh, interesting. So, yeah, it's just Brett is just, he just puts a smile on my face. He makes me happy. That's a smile on my face. He's, he's very, very, very just sometimes, like, where's the common sense, but then you can't have both, you know, booksmart. And comment says, I've got given give a guy something. Okay. So yeah, he he's great. Ali Abdaal 1:16:31 How did you? So if he doesn't have social media and stuff, how do you navigate the whole sort of to what extent he wanted the relationship to be public versus private? Unknown Speaker 1:16:38 I asked him, I said, Do you feel comfortable with it? If you don't, we never need to showcase you. I can tell people I'm taking but we don't need to publicly announce he was like, no, like, if you want to, we can. I he goes to me. But if I say like maybe no two videos, just respect that. And I said, of course, like I'm not going to shove down your throat. Sometimes he's a bit difficult, and I'm not going to be in it. And then he's like, I don't want to be in it today. And I kind of problem. But then there's other moments where he's like, let's take a picture. And he like gets into it. So he's is really chilled. He is the he's the guy that really puts he puts me first. He doesn't put himself as he puts me first, he knows that if I need to be on my laptop working, he doesn't disturb. He knows that when I am giving him attention in the sense of when I'm not on my phone. Like, that's genuine quality time. Because I don't give a lot of people that and I have to be honest, like I don't give people that quality time because I don't even have it for myself. I don't like I am giving it to my brands. So he respects that and a lot of guys wouldn't respect that. Okay. A lot of guys would be like, Get off your phone or you never spend time with me or you're not texting me back. Like I think we text in the morning and a few times in the day. And that's it. I'm on my phone to work. I don't socialise on my phone. I don't have time to socialise. Very rare. Yeah. And I don't want it to change. Like I love my life. I don't want to go out clubbing and drinking every single weekend. That's not for me, you know? Ali Abdaal 1:18:16 Okay. So, I've been open dating someone for a few months. And yeah, okay. She is very concerned about the whole public spotlight. Partially a bit nervous. Yeah. Um, have you have you had any, like, negative repercussions from being semi public about the relationship or relationships in the past? Unknown Speaker 1:18:37 No, I think I think because a lot of people saw my relationship with Jack. They were a bit they were really upset when me and Jack did part ways because they felt like so connected to me and Jack. Yeah. But then now they see me and Brett, they, they're like, I'm so happy for you. I think don't do anything that puts pressure on her. But I think three months is very soon. So just like, yeah, give her some more time. Yeah. And I think why not bring her to one of your work days? Why not let her like kind of sneak peek into your, like your genuine work. Because it'll make her feel more comfortable and confident. And just be open with her and say, Hey, like, no pressure. But the reason I want to publicly announce you because you know, I think you're the one so why not celebrate that? Ali Abdaal 1:19:25 Okay, interesting. Did you feel like given that yours and Jack's relationship was was public. Was there more pressure to keep it going even when things weren't working? Yeah. Okay. Unknown Speaker 1:19:39 Yeah. 100% we I had checked out in my head a long time ago and I think Jack had to Jackson a really happy relationship. Now he's so in love with his new partner and you know, we haven't met yet but I really like when we do meet. I just want to say to her, Listen, honey, you got nothing to worry about. I know it's a bit awkward. I get it. I just want him to be happy. Okay. And I know we weren't happy with each other anymore for a while, and we weren't really just like trying to make it work. So he's happiness to me is absolutely everything. Ali Abdaal 1:20:14 And I guess that's, that's one of the risks of having a public relationship. It's sort of like, it's hard to break up with someone once you moved in with them. Because there's like an extra layer of Unknown Speaker 1:20:24 money. And you're in a car. Yeah. So it was a lot but but yeah, no, we we were very, very, very respectful. There was no bitterness. There was no aggression. There was no nastiness that was, you're still part of this brand. This is still your home if you want your share. Sure. If you want to sell it, we'll sell it together. Like it was very amicable, amicable, amicable. I can I can ever say that word of mouth. lickable. America couple Ali Abdaal 1:20:57 closing. Yeah. Unknown Speaker 1:21:00 I told you and sometimes I just mess up words, but yeah, yeah, yeah. No, he were very respectful to one another. We have blowouts here and there for work. But you're going to have pressure you have a team of 30 people and employees to pay in salaries to pay and, you know, these people are putting food on on their on their kids on the table for their kids is a big responsibility. People's mortgages. Ali Abdaal 1:21:23 Mental. Do you ever worry about like security? Because you're like, on the train and stuff? And I imagined Unknown Speaker 1:21:29 all of that. Okay. I mean, for the office? I did, because we have a lot of stuff in the office. And I want to take care of my employees. But Ali Abdaal 1:21:39 like personal security and stuff. No, I've just been hearing a lot of like horror stories. Usually from from YouTubers in America, actually, where they're like, if they if anyone gets a whiff of what what their location is a weather office could be or even something in the background or one of the stories people figure out where they live and come to the house and it's all like, relevant, like, Unknown Speaker 1:22:00 I know I have I'm alarm systems and security in the house. Ali Abdaal 1:22:04 Yeah. Okay. Unknown Speaker 1:22:06 But I'm comfortable getting on trains and yeah, I think anyone wants to hire me. Ali Abdaal 1:22:14 For the thought in your head, but now you've really got me thinking. Unknown Speaker 1:22:17 No, I'm okay. Okay, Ali Abdaal 1:22:20 amazing. I've just got a few kind of rapid fire questions. Sure. If you're if you're down for that, number one, Unknown Speaker 1:22:24 I'll say yes or no. Is that these that this kind of feeling? Potentially? Or maybe maybe one line is fine, no problem. Okay. Ali Abdaal 1:22:30 What advice would you give to your younger self? BE PATIENT Excellent. Who's had the biggest influence in your career? The community nice. What's one tip for someone looking for success? Unknown Speaker 1:22:40 Don't make it profit driven. Make it vision driven? Ali Abdaal 1:22:43 Nice. What is the first and last hour of your day look like? Unknown Speaker 1:22:47 You really want an eye? First hour waking up and heading to the gym? Last hour? Check in my tag pictures for my community. Ali Abdaal 1:22:58 What material item under 100 pounds Could you not live without? Unknown Speaker 1:23:01 Oh god my honour active? Ali Abdaal 1:23:03 Excellent. What book other than yours? Would you recommend to anyone built to last? Oh, interesting. I haven't read that. I'm gonna I'm gonna read that tonight. If you lost everything how would you start a business again with my vision and mission and my why amazing? What quote or mantra do you live by do this for you? Excellent. And finally journey or destination Unknown Speaker 1:23:20 journey. Always the journey. I was thinking holidays then and I was like, I be fine. But no journey. always amazing. Ali Abdaal 1:23:28 Chrissy thank you so much for coming on. Unknown Speaker 1:23:30 Thank you for having me. Thank you so much Ali Abdaal 1:23:33 open, honest about everything. Unknown Speaker 1:23:34 Always a bit too open. But I hope everyone enjoyed it. Thank you so much for having me. Ali Abdaal 1:23:39 Thanks for coming on. And be out links to all your things will be in all the things everyone check out. It's very good. The tagline how to be a strong woman from inside out. I sort of chuckled a bit when I posted that on my Instagram story, but it's like genuinely, I mean, there's there's a little bit about pregnancy and trimesters and stuff but beyond that, it's it's all very it's very gender neutral. So yeah, Unknown Speaker 1:24:00 thank you. Thank you so much. Ali Abdaal 1:24:02 That's it for this week's episode of Deep Dive. Thank you so much for listening. All of Chris's links are going to be in the show notes and the description if you're watching this on YouTube. Thank you again for tuning in. And if you did enjoy this conversation, don't forget to leave us a review on Apple podcasts so that more people can discover the show. I'll see you later. Transcribed by https://otter.ai