S3x Before the Internet (Ft. Sinnamon Love)

still go by Cinnamon Love for your sex ed work? Yeah? I still go by Cinnamon Love. I mean, you know, a bit trying to rebrand. I mean it's been twenty nine years. I think the rebrand was adding the last name Love, like eight years in. But I've been doing the ship for twenty nine years, Like there is no rebrand. So I've known your name for a long time because I mean, you're obviously such a well known adult film actress, but also most recently you work in sex education. What

do you do? Yeah? Yeah, I mean, um, so I've been teaching people how to rethink their pleasure, and you know, I think a lot of people are super hyper focused on on using porn as sex ed, but they forget that what they're watching is they did it. It's not a fake, like it's really Have you read that book Your Brain on Porn? I have not read the book Your Brain? Do you know what I'm talking about? Yeah,

but I know what you're talking about. Someone sentence to me a shout out to Miko, and it's funny because it's a dude I worked with, and I was like,

this is weird. Does anythink I'm an addict? But it was so interesting to read because it was just talking about one of the things I mentioned a horrible lot, how much more we need when watching porn, And I realized I do that, Like if I'm watching maybe too like lesbians, just them, Suddenly I need them to be more aggressive than I get into some weird porn ship. Then it's like boom boom boom. It just levels up

and my porn can't be normal anymore. Like watching gay porn is why I like eating Nigga booty is so bad. I love eating because I don't chapter just because I don't, you know, I was filled with the pink dick so it'd be like beautiful, my little brown chocolate starfish. But I know it's because I've grown like more of a fascination the male from watching gay porn and because like they're also like masculine. I don't have those hangups of of men not knowing how to clean. I'm also friends

with a lot of gay men. Like the idea that straight men just don't know how to wipe as is really odd to me because I deal with a lot of super clean men, and so watching porn and seeing them taking some big old dick, I don't know why. I fu niggas that takes showers and I love right, like like if I walk into your house and you're your bathroom is filthy, I'm not gonna take my clothes off the toilet the toilet like did you guys? Yes?

For the girls were sharing? Guy, Yes, here's the way both thread and you know what, let me ask you, because you've been around the block, let me know, did you mean that like it sounds because you know? So,

let me ask you. Then, in dating and before having sex with someone, if you do go to someone's house, what are things that you will see that will be like, you know what I'm not gonna I'm gonna love I'm the hard towel in the bathroom, the hard towel, Oh my god, you're like I know exactly what you're saying.

You know what I'm talking about, Like like that hasn't been washed, like you know what I mean, or or not having towels, not having like hand soap in the bathroom, just a bar, just a bar, or having like three and one, you know, like body wash, ample conditioner and body wash. Yes. Actually, there was a guy that I was seeing a couple a few years ago, and I walked in his you know, like I walked in his place and I was like, this is not gonna work for me, and I and I left, and then he

hit me up and was like what what happened? And I'm like, well, I'm a woman, and this is not clean, like like I'm not it's not even about being bougie, but it's like not comfortable. I'm not laying down in your bed and taking my clothes off. If I have to worry about whether or not I'm gonna you know, she's or even clean, but she's or even clean even clear? Are they even clean? Like if you don't have you don't have at least like you know, food in your fridge,

Like how I need water after we have sex. I don't think that like the things that I required from a dude's house had to do a money when I was younger, because I've had been very spoiled by good products and things men would have, and like, honestly, it's just not I don't like no, even if there was

one guy. There was an actor that I dated back in the like very briefly, back in the nineties, and he is the reason why I have the standards I do now around cleanliness with men, because his house was so fucking dirty, like I didn't see it when we walked in because the no. And then it's like when I got up to go to the bathroom after we had sex, and I was like, where the funk am

I at? Like I couldn't even I couldn't even sleep, Like I literally started cleaning his apartment, not because I wanted to, like train his not wasn't trying to be shows Like I couldn't even like laid my head down on.

I was like, And it was funny because his mom came in in the morning, like she had a key, she came in in the morning and she was walking like I was in the bathroom cleaning the bathroom because I wanted to take a shower and I couldn't take a shower, like there was like food curtains everywhere, and it's like and she was so when she walked in, she was like, there's a there's a there's been a woman here, Like do you have a girlfriend? And I was like, and that was a problem. That was a problem.

But after being embarrassed her. That's also there's a difference between filth and mess. Like I've definitely didn't mess you guys where their laundry. I'll never get fold everywhere, but like filth, filth is different. It was so filthy and so because of that, I've never like at this Like now I'm like I walk in and I say, okay, Like what am I looking for? Like is there is that? Is it clean? First of all? Do you have bath products?

Are there clean towels? Is there water in the fridge or at least a britt of filter like something, because after we have sex, like I'm gonna want water, Like you know, you shouldn't have to go make a run to the bodega to get water after we fucked, Like, how am I supposed to like, you're you I New York water. York water is good to be in the water. Yeah they got it from the water. No. No, like people, you know, people that their kids and now we got

polio people. I don't know why. This just made me think of I'm like, so I was like a really big hater before I watched it, The Little Baby Doc. I was like laughing about I saw people on Twitter talking about like your niggas feeling inspired from the rappers dog like you need to do man. But I watched it and it was really well made, even talking about politics. Just the way it was filmed like phenomenal. But one of the things I noticed that I thought was so

funny was how rich he is. How he they've talked about, how he's been rich forever, how he was a millionaire before he was rapping. But his house a lot of empty parts. I'm like, this is such a nigga's. Like his closet phenomenal, the sneakers like everything, and it wasn't dirty. It was just empty rooms in this mansion. And it's like, obviously you can figure this out, but you know what niggas don't do think of interior design. They know what

I'm saying. You like. Also, the best thing. I don't know if you guys saw it, but he was going to the grands with his son, and this to me, I love watching black kids live in luxury and understand wealth. So they're going down the stairs and they're dressed so adorably and there's like a fountain underneath where the stairs are and little baby drops his phone. He's like fun and he's running to grab his phone and the sun goes. But don't worry, Dad, You're right. I was like, just on.

But yeah, like really, it has nothing to do with money. You went to an actor's house. It was filthy. It's just like again, niggas need to be elensated about Yeah, I mean, because if you have money like that, like higher housekeeper. You know what I'm saying, Like, you don't have to live that way. It's you old to ask grabb it on, get a coupon code. Now let's get to what we really want to know about the house ship. So I I know about you from the era of

here were my personal favorites. Not saying youwheren't in there, but this was like women that I feel like I remembered because they were top dogs. And then when you're like looking at their ship, you find cinnamon love like you were kind of in your own Lady Pinky had her own kind of vibe. But then I feel like Caprix styles, Lacies, we've all cinem in love. Was what Cherokee Cherokee was like, because y'all had a similar body type. Lazy you write Cherokee to asked, was that Pinky likes sunny?

Naming like a bunch of people that I used to manage? But go ahead, so you did you you did management? I had a Yeah, I had a management company called Urban I Candy Um. All of these people that you're naming, they came after I did, right, So I came into the business. It was Lana San's Janet, jack Mee Wowy, Persia Um, Persia, Champagne, Pandavis like you know, those those

were the generation Jackie and Persia. Yeah, so Channing I came in after after they did, and so and then everybody else that you're like that, those early two thousand's people came in after. Let's talk about age, can't we? So you're forty eight, correct, Yeah, forty eight. So you

started in nine Wow. When I was nineteen, I was the very first black kind of like girl next door only because I like, I looked like I was a miner, right, So when I came in a lot most of the women outside of like Lana Sands and Janet Jackie had these like these late eighties early nineties horn star bodies, which were the big, huge hits, a little bit, no hips, no ass because that's what was selling on the feature market, and that's what the white men want to see, right,

So when I came in, I looked like I was scouted because I looked like I was barely legal. I was like the very first barely legal black porn star. Was that something that you were okay knowing that this was the fan untill I showed up and there was a photo from my very first Hustler magazine shoot that was that appeared in the movie Freeway with Reese Witherspoon. So for people who don't know, Freeway was to me was her best ever, her best movie that she ever

movie Don't Fire. Now, I gotta go back a little. So there's a scene in the movie. So so for the people who don't know it's like it's a red riding Hood take, right, it's a modern red riding hood take. And there's a scene in the movie where um, they go to the house to you know, to the killer's house, and they cut the lock on a shed in the backyard and all this like child sexual exploitation material comes out.

And I'm watching the movie on on on DVD, and all of a sudden there's this there's this picture of me that comes like this flying out of the and I'm looking. I'm like wait what And I'm like so I had to pause it and go back, and I'm like, they're using a picture of me for child pornographer, a child sexual exploitation material. And I was like, oh, you know, we gotta do a rebrand. Like that was actually the real when I rebranded, because I was like, this is

not okay. What does a rebrand look like for for important for for something. So for me, like, you know, the porn industry doesn't have the same kind of like branding and marketing for performers the way that the music industr tree or the or film and television does. So, like if you think about like in music, you know what you start, like your Brittany Christina Beyonce. You start off as a teen and then as you get older, you get sexier. The the tops gets shorter, the skirts

get shorter, music gets a little dirty. So well, no, so I started off as a team, but then because of the way the porn industry works, usually you age out right, or it used to be that you would age out. So for me, what I did was I started shooting with companies that we're also shooting playmates because like, so a lot of people were some of those companies, um, well, like kink dot Com I shot four they were one of the first. A lot of photographers that I worked with, like, um,

I'm trying to think of who I worked with. There's like Christine, Christine Cussler, um, Ashley Fontanae, Like there was a bunch of people that I that were shooting glamour models. Um. Because the way that Playboy used to work is that the playmates could do they could do glamour and they could do kink, but they couldn't have on like uniforms

or costumes, okay, and they couldn't do hardcore porn. So I could shoot louis like fetish companies and fetish photographers because playmates would also be on the platform and then that way their audience would also get to witness and see me. So that for me, like shooting with these kinds of photographers to you know, allow my character to grow up, my on screen character to grow up and represent myself the way that I see myself right, not

as you know, a cheerleader, you know, like whatever. Like you know, this is like a different interesting to me because we are in an era of only fans and you know, to have a conversation with someone that's been in the game so long and been able to keep up a career in sex work, whether sex at anything, porn, like, it's really interesting to me. What do you think of this era in terms of like how do they grow? I love it. I love it so much. I mean,

first off, there's nothing is there's nothing new under the sun. Right, So, way back when I think like nineties seven, I danced in a peep show booth on O what's that? What's you doing? We were talking about this show, the Peep Shows. It was dope. I mean, it was one of my first trips to New York. You know. I met a guy at an af season l A and he was the next day he was like, I'm going to New York tomorrow. I was like, I want to go. So he got me a ticket and I came to New York.

But he lived in Long Island. He lived in Himpstead and I was no, it was fun. I was like, let me find my way. How do I get into the city. And so, you know, I came. I came into the city. I met an agent and you know, made some calls. There was you know New York p ourn agent and he booked me to dance at this It was a it was a you know, like a sex shop video store on and it had peep show booths in the back. So I, you know, I had never done that before, Like I worked in phone sex before.

But you know, you go into the booth breakdown working. So you go into these little booths and it would be like a little tiny like octagon is it just and just you? And then the other person is sitting behind a glass green on the other side. You see though they would and you could see them, so they would put like coins is still available in New York by the way, Yeah, it doesn't necessary. They're not in there,

but you can see it. Yeah, you you would go, they'd put the coins in the machine and the curtain would come up, and then you would dance. And so the way they taught me was like you would slowly move. You would move and you would kind of like start to dance around. How long did they get minutes? It would be like, you know, I don't remember the exact amount, but I would say it was kind of like like three dollars for three minutes or some something something along

the line I was making. It wasn't a lot like it would be like maybe two hundred, three hundred dollars a night, but it was. It was one of those things that was the only black girl that was there. And so it's like they were there was a little bit of you know, it was a nice constant flow. Can you you can see them. I could see them on the other side, and so they would off, they would be jerking off. They would be jerking off. And

so but when I say everything, there's nothing new. It's the same thing with campsites, except that now they use their credit card instead of a point. I have to make this like point, you're not that old. The fact that you were in a coin books. It's nuts. It's nuts like that this sounds like you, I know, but it's but it's wild. It's like this is pretty Giuliani right where this whether all the sex shops still existed

in New York, New York and so like. But to be able to even think about the fact that I had that experience right like that I could go to a peep show booth and and work. I worked in a phone sex bank for like two days, and a bank like what does a phone sex bank not? Like yes, like marketing. So back in the day, when did they find in the Yellow Pages? They didn't find me? Well, actually, actually my first my first time ever worked like seeing

people in person. I worked out of the l A Weekly, which was it was and and and and also which still exists. And also there were other like you would see in you know in l A. You see the red boxes in New York too, but you see the red boxes on the corner, but that have all the free papers, and they have the free papers. So there were there were escort newspapers that like in l A,

like you would pay for your ads. Those are like the game newspapers nowadays there are papers now, yeah, but that was that was those are the kinds of things like when I I'm actually I'm shooting a documentary next month for Anny Um for vice rather on um on sex before the Internet, and so so these are some of the types of wow that I that I had an opportunity to do that that nowadays people would be like what you were you were advertising in the paper.

I mean, we used to advertise in the back of the New Yorker, you know, so for for a second, you know, for I mean, but also your videos were put to like vhs hs and they had to buy it that way a DVD and then and so even yeah, when you did it, it was because you said ninety three because when you started that was also before the

Internet with escorting in papers. Yeah, I can't imagine how terrifying because with the Internet you can see it looks like maybe Google in the in the paper you could do either for myself, I could either put an ad. It was like a hundred dollars to put an ad up with a pat with your photo and a description, or it was like sixty dollars to put an ad with just like you're just text and also modern version of that. Right. Craiglis is a modern version of that,

not even but the same way Craigslist. Not all of the posts had photos. Sometimes you add to email if you were inquiring, then get a photo or it would all be blurred faces. Was your face bloard and in these papers my face was not. But there was no blurring like option. I mean you could you could put

a picture of like that didn't show what you do. No, you would go to the there, you'd go to the office and they would say in it and no you would just you would, Yeah, you would give them whatever you want because there was email, you know, but but not like in I want to say, it was so how did you? How did you protect you? So I was really fortunate that when I first got into the business, there was um I think I was like maybe maybe two.

Well it was two. I was like a year in I met I was on a set and I met a woman who actually thought that I was somebody's kids sister that the director and studio owner allowed to be on the set. She like she like cussed him out because she was like, you're gonna get us all arrested. And then when she found out that I was actually talented, she was like, wait, what you're you're you're a performer, Like how long have you been doing this? What have

do you dance? Like? What's the story? So she was the person her and her roommate, they were the people who taught me how to be a home like they taught me how to walk in six inches the lettos to the b too music, they showed they went, took me to buy my first pair of thigh high You do really young looking at this picture of you one with glasses on? That one wasn't he that's like in the two thousand's though, that's like no porn, well not. This is why I'm trying to find your you. I

see the baby face this one. Look for Yeah, no, that's that's put put nineteen hundreds. Put put the nineteen hundreds. I'll have to show you some girl boody grow and then get smaller again and then grow. I was like, do you know what any photos are? Right? How many scenes have you done? Like, oh my god, oh my god, look at this one we're looking at. Let me describe

this to y'all. There is right, there is uh you are tied to if there's cups over your tips, what like literally cupping like someone does on the back, you're strapped up by the wrist and the stomach a magic one some a woman's using on you. What's the woodening underneath the sucking machine. I'm sorry, sucking machine, and I don't want to get it on you. Sucking machine. Yeah, it's a machine that has the um that had a

deilt to attached to its sex. Yeah, you turn it on and it it sucks you for the party scenes. Have you done like to fifty actually? And it really it's I probably did like maybe a hundred and fifty scenes and then there's like a hundred like you know, mixtape. I have a few questions to about like money, So I did an episode, Um, I have a show about business of sex. No really sex stories, just finance on it.

And we went to Evil Angel where they talked about legacy studio like rates and how girls get like two thousand dollars the big stars and and they're like, well only fans. Girls obviously make more, but they want to do film so that people will see their face and

then go to their only fans. Disagree with that, So yeah, well I disagree with that because like it used to be back in the day, you had like the dancers would go to the big studios to dance horn like strippers would go to the big studios, like like the Legacy studios. Stormy used to do that. Yeah, Stormy, everybody

used to do that. So because you would go dance with you, you would shoot for these companies so you could get box covers, and then the box covers would allow you to go back to the strip clubs to feature. I like to describe like for people who don't understand what that means. You know, it's like when when a when a rapper tours, you know, you know, tours, like yeah, like yeah, yeah, that that's kind of the way that

that's the way that the feature dancer could work. So but the thing is like you don't need that anymore. You don't need a box cover because Instagram is your box cover, right, So whereas before you had some still the same thing though, because only fans of just the strip club now where you can make that money, You

make the money and it's your own. But it's like, you know't but if you can do the social media marketing and you get the followers, why do you need to shoot for a company to get a box cover?

You don't what were the rates like back then, because he said, a top girl today is getting So when I started, the going rate for like, you would get a lot of money, like fifteen hundreds to two thousand for your first couple of scenes, and then after that, like the you know, blow job scenes were like three hundred dollars five girls, five hundred dollars for you know, five eight hundred for a for a boy girl scene.

Girl girl scenes were usually a little bit less um but then you you know, when I think about you know, annal scenes would be like maybe twelve to fifteen or you know, something like that. But it's and then you go up depending on how the game the game thing, the most you've made, and was that like your most brutal the most of you ever did. Ghetto Gaggers, I did not do ghetto Gaggers. And because they're racist, let's

talk about hetto Gagers. Yeah, so Ghetto Gaggers is a They are a company that is run by white men. They also they have another website called Latina Abuse, and they basically they basically like they they they consider themselves extreme hardcore porn, but really what they do is they fly women in from wherever they are on like overnight flights. They get them to a studio in they take them straight to the studio in the middle of Bfi, Jersey.

They have them, they don't get them checked into a hotel first, and then they put them in these in these compromising position. Was like they're they're giving them pizza and like like stuff that's really greasy, and then they have they film them going through their checklist of all the different things that they're okay with and the things that they're interested in doing, and then they start shooting

this scene. Right, so the woman is already signed a release form with a full stomach, and they have them. They shoot these scenes with them where they are literally

just trying to make them throw up. And so I've seen I've seen scenes where they had a girl throw up in the in a dog bowl and then poured it on her head, right, and it's and it's it's it's really you can tell like even if somebody's interested in hardcore, really hardcore extreme like b D s M, that you can see the look on someone's face in their videos when they go from options are like making the bitch cry like yeah, and it's so far and you can see that where they go from I'm okay

with this too, I'm scared, like what the fun did I get what I signed up for? And because they flown them out, they don't have a hotel room there. It's like they don't check them into the hotel until after the scene is over. So they're literally like, you know, it's it's coercion. Okay. I have to tell you guys about how why I asked about Gett Gregers. I was asked to do a short docum memory series on violence important and this was a few months ago, right after

shooting Sex Cell season two. So I was like, oh, ghetto gaggers is the worst I've ever seen. We've got to talk about that. All of them are going to be a little bit older to where they could probably talk about it and be done with it right. I had to go through the site to find the girls that I wanted to work with. I could not even finish it. And I said, you know, I'm not the

first thing to this. It was supposed to be educational and um, no, no no, no, the doctor we're making which it was, I'm sure, but I was like, I don't think I could do it. It was taking me to a place that was. So it's difficult, and you're right, do you watch this? I don't even know how it's still up. And you know, it's crazy how cancel culture exists, right, you think about this Tiffany Hattish already spirits thing that's going on? How did this kid exist? It's gone. Now

that's gonna happen to ghetto gaggers. I don't know when it's gonna happen. I don't, but I found a girl I wanted to interview, started watching it. The look, the comments, how they increasingly enjoyed her getting more upset. Oh my god, bro, Like, I don't even know how it's still illegal. And now dog fart is a company ship, so I like Bukaki porn. So when I type it in, I find a lot of dog part which is literally then wearing Confederate flag shirts,

sucking women on trash cans. Like it's so they tried to get me to shoot for that Confederate flag shirt, like seeing like it's like a it's like a blow bang with the guys wearing Confederate Confederate flag t shirt and they use black women and they use black women and I was like, no, I'm not doing that actually, and I wanted to ask you about that, because you're coming in as the girl next door, a petito, a more petite body, not not mean making it worries, but

a more petite body. Did you start off with white men, because we've all and we've talked to porn stars that said that they stayed there because once you sucked a black man in porn, your right would down. Did you experience that as well coming in early on or what

was that? So two things. The reason why a lot of white women wait to shoot with black men later is because back in the eighties and the nineties, when when white performers would have to also do the feature dance circuit, most of the strip clubs that would have like chains of stores, so like deja vu, a lot of their stores would be across the Bible Belt and across the Midwest. Okay, if you were a white performer, you could not tour those strip clubs across the Bible Belt.

They wouldn't book you because if you had had sex with a black guy. So all over the internet all yes, exactly, I've got a black eye in some places. It's not in some place like that, but but don't be Yeah, but don't black guy, and so and so a lot of like when I came in, a lot of the

women were told. The white women were told if even if they were sucking black guys in their personal life, even if their boyfriend was black, they were told to wait and hold their first scene with a black guy for later when their career would start to like ebb and flow like so that way they could they could charge the most money for their first scene with a

black guy. Right so, and actually up until when the porn industry had its Black Lives Matter moment, which is a whole another conversation, but that we it was up until then that there was an industry wide decision to not charge, like to not allow agents to charge more money for a white girl's first scene with a black

which is nuts. And doing that now with with gay men that if you talk, the longer you talk, the more the fans want to see you the bottom and so like I know, so like I'll go on because because I followed them all to bring them all. Now not all of them live here, but we were talking about that. Well one wasn't Vegas. We we gotta work I know a few and now zeus then hired them all to fucking fall in love with Bobby life. But now all is getting famous and I'm like, I don't

want to hear you talk. I just wanted to see you, Bence Ober. But they were telling me how even if they're versed in real life, the longer they stay a top and gay porn, the higher the higher they can charge whenever they do bottom. Like literally I watched one guy do it and they added all the like the thematic music of the dick finally going in this tops as and it's crazy, it is I haven't saved, you know.

So you know what's so crazy is that, Like when I came in, it's like, you know, there there was no equivalent to the black dick rate for black women. There's none. It's like you basically, as a black woman, you're expected to come in or Latina, you're expected to come in doing everything right. So you know, even you couldn't say no. I mean that's not that you can't

say no, but it's there's just an expectation. It's of course people ask you like what you know, do you do anal to you do tps or to YouTube, group text like you know, all of these they ask you what you do. But there's no different, there's no there's no big you know, black dick rate for black women. And the reason that black dick rate existed is because

there's this it's the stereotype of black men having bigger dicks. Yes, even though you out or even though there's white guys important that have big dicks, like do you know what I'm s James that was big. Manuel Ferrara has a big has a big gas dick like you know, and it's like, there's no, I was never all made a white He's from white, not the spicy friends what I mean.

It's still now but they're well but but you know what I'm saying, It's like, there's no there's no there's no special rate for him, there's no I've worked with Rocoster Fred, there's no there's no big, special big dig rate for to Funk Rocklessoffreddi and he has a huge dick,

you know. But so it's it's a there's a there was always this this fucked up way that they would, you know, make it seem like it's like always just because of the black guys, like and I did, like I did a scene for Vivid with Shane Diesel and Richard Mann two the on once they got out of their their individual contracts. I was shooting a scene for Um for Um rough sex to for with Trisan Teremino, and she was like, what's one thing that you want

to do? And I was like, I want to do a hardcore b D s M scene with you know, b D s M scene with hardcore sex with two with you know, with a group of black guys. Right. I wanted these two black guys who are known for having the biggest dicks their whole careers. They were put with only little, tiny, petite white girls, right because to fit the stereotype. And I'm like, I want, I want the big black tick. And I also I brought in another black guy, this UM name Orpheus. I brought in Orpheus.

Orpheus was my Yeah, Orpheus was my was my top for the scene. I created this really dope ass scene where I was like, I wanted to do domestic service. I had this latex French maid's outfit on with with a like a d porn like you have to do a porn treatment like film for some films. For some films, I love thee I love a story. So yeah, so I had I had this um, I had this idea that I wanted the guys like all in like a

you know, shirt collared shirts playing pool. I was gonna do, you know, be serving drinks and then I would fill a drink on one of the guests so that my top would have to discipline me. And then part of the discipline was to loan me to his his boys. You don't even want the money, now, I wanted. I wanted the money too. I mean, you know, it's like I get turned on by by getting paid to have sex, right, that's my everything around around me. But it was it

was really dope. So we got to do some knife play and some fireplay and and also I got sucked by Shane and you know and Richard, And it was dope because here's two guys who are known for having like they're like twelve plus inches and to be able to I was like, I want to show that black

women can also do all of the big dirty thing. Yeah, take dick, do all the dirty nasty ship like I mean, my whole not even that the b d s M. Having black men engaging in DS is having black people engaging and b d I mean, that's why we have the show, because we oftentimes look at b d s M and all those things kinks as white people should. That's why we started the pod saying, and there are so many black people they truly jined. I'm really wild

to like find that. And also I remember in an episode were we interview this guy who was like, I was telling this story about who someone tied me up and blindfold of me. Was like, man, do that to you, And I was like, you know how difficult it is like me and black men and them kind of wanted them to get that way nowadays. Yeah, actually that was only an episode six years ago. I actually think it's different.

It's different now. I think it's I think that, and I think that people like King and Jasmine have definitely shut up the move that forward. I mean, there were always people doing like black people doing, you know, involved in the b DSM scene, But like when I shot I was the very first person, like black person to shoot for Kink dot com. That scene that you pulled up with the fucking machine was for Kink that way

back in the day. But when and when I shot for them, my first scene for them was actually with the owner of the company because and he was he pushed back so much about hiring me because he was terrified of the of the social pushback of the black of putting a black woman in bondage and and like you know, or in a cage, like he was really afraid. Was there pushback though from hell? No, I don't know.

I mean, I mean there was. I got pushed back on forums, like there were some some porn forums back in the day where people, of course, we're like, oh, she's setting the black race back fifty years, like nigga, what like, how am I setting them? It's sex, It's not like like I'm not. Actually, do you feel like being I'm not somebody way conversation, the Mia Khalifa conversation. Tell me more, tell anywhere. Actually, this is interesting. So I talked about this with the mutual friend of ours,

that thing we were both asked to do. There there's a platform that wanted to interview people about sex, and they asked me what I thought of Mia Khalifa. But they told me that earlier that day they were going to talk to cinament. Oh. Yes, we said, I'm gonna be honest with y'all. We all know mia Kalifa story already. Yeah, she wore the heat job. It was only a few scenes she did. Now she's a millionaire. People hated her. They wanted to kill her, like not saying it's not

sucked up. But and you hearded this story where she was on daytime television and now she's on only fans And how are we not going to talk to the black girl that is older than her with a longer standing career. There's probably got more stories, bro. They were all on the zoom feelings they talk about Yeah, no

they yeah, they told me. They told like why they crossed her off the list after I said that, and it's like something and then and then they people just don't really they're not really conscious of Yeah, and then and then they ghosted. But but that's another story for another day. But but I think that there's you know, people are always looking for this um They're looking for

you know, stories that fit a certain narrative. And so like for me, like, you know, I I that platform like last year, and I actually told them when we first got on the call that you know, I was really glad that they reached out because last year they did a show where they were regurgitating some very swarthy language and some Christian conservative like talking points around how porn harms women as if we are not women also those of us who are doing this work. And it's like,

I think a lot of people don't. They don't, people don't understand where some of these misconceptions and you know about porn come from. Right, You've got you have you know, right wing Christian conservative organizations like Nicosi who swear that if you are black or brown, or queer or trans or disabled or poor, that you your your you know, proximity to white supremacy makes it, you know, and you know, systemic oppression makes it to where you can't actually choose

to do sex work. And it's like a lot of are you saying that poor people can't don't have choice? Like you're saying that if you're and and what they're basically doing is they're taking you know, like iconic black feminist theory from like the Cahambie River Collective who who who said that, you know, our intersexuality is in direct relationship with capitalism, right, So and it's like, yes, that's true,

but that doesn't mean that we don't have choice. Like there's mad people who were survivors of sexual violence who don't choose to go into sex work. There are people who are poor who choose to work retail and or work at McDonald's or whatever as opposed to going into sex work. It's not it's your your your your proximity to capital, Like we all have the right to survive capitalism by any means flat necessary, Like do you know what I'm saying? And it's like, so, why should that

not be a choice. It's like, there are a lot of people who can't maintain traditional employment, can't find or maintain traditional employment, or who just don't want to do is a real thing, Like I've definitely felt, for one, I've definitely had sex with someone for rent money and

not have wanted to do it. But I'm also a hypocrite because I can remember the moments where I didn't need to funk for money, but knowing that he was gonna give me some money felt great and I great kind of agree with like being turned on by it. There's a lot of moments like when I was thinking back and we were having a conversation recently about you

know you talking through therapy. The two things I had discovered through therapy, were one for giving myself for those moments where I did have to funk for money, and then the other ones where I was like the guilt I had because I did kind of like it. Well, and here's think I have. Here's here's the thing. Why should you have to forgive yourself for the things that you chose to do in order to survive capitalism? Right? Because you're the other option is what to be on

the street, Like do you know what I'm saying? Like, there's you shouldn't have to forgive yourself for the choices that you made. Nobody is going to tell somebody, Oh, you know, you should forgive yourself for when you had to take that low pay, low wage job in order for you to in order for you to your to pay for your kids, you know, for whatever. So why should you have to forgive yourself for the choices that

you made when you when you had fewer options? But people don't believe that sex workers have a choice, right which where Like to me, if I'm fucking because I have to pay my rent? To me, yeah, there was some choices that I made that I probably wouldn't have made had the money been there. But I also have friends that have been in relationships where they didn't have to do anything sexual for money and they chose to like it's like they they missed it. They fiend off.

I had a friend literally engaged, living with her partner, lied about what she did for a living, and would trial engaged, engaged, lived with her nigga and said that

she was like a wedding planner or something. Would travel to New York, would traveled to d C. Would travel to all these different cities and beyond eroes and literally and literally stay on arrows like for the weekend and make all the money and come back home and take it back home to her husband or her fiance where she played um no, he she did find out because of course with clients, you you start getting repeat customers.

So one of them ended up really liking her, and so he ended up just finding the messages between them too, so it seemed more like a sugar daddy relationship than what she was really doing since and he was really he got Yeah, I will say how bad it got. It got really bad. They're no longer together, but yeah, she got caught that way. But they were together for like seven plus years, and we would hang out. And sometimes I'd go and hang out with her at the hotel.

She'd be like, yeah, girl, I got a client coming, so you can you can go down there, come back. Unless she did like a dinner date, which would be like eight hours, so we were just paying the dinner date. She would get paid so much money for the dinner day. It would be like a half night. She would go out to dinner and get paid to do the dinner.

And she did a lot of girlfriend experiences. So but long story short, I say all of that to say, even though she had a partner that loved her dearly, they lived together, they were planning a family together, she was like, I like doing this and this is what this is what I'm gonna do. This is my choice. This is how I want to make my money. I

don't want to drive, also saying quick money. It's It's interesting because I had a conversation with a dude that I used to funk with who used to sell dope, and he was telling me how bro like it's so crazy now, like he goes it's like a construction thing or something, and he was like, so crazy now, like everybody be like, oh, you make six figures He's like, they got to make six figures a month. And he's like and he's like, you know, it's crazy more than

I missed past money. He was like, I missed being in the streets. I have mad fun, I had bitches. It's a lifestyle. And I was telling him like, oh, I was speaking arrangement a little, how I kind of missed that ship. I remember like not a bad scary nervous. I wouldn't say that. I never really felt unsafe. Um. I've had maybe one or two scenarios, but for the most part, I felt I felt like I was having fun.

And I remember getting dressed up for dinner and how it felt and like, oh, this guy is so excited to fuck me, but maybe I won't fuck him. I'm gonna just keep getting this allowed winch money, which is kind of crazy because the allowance money thing on seeking arrangement, it is bullshit. They prey on young women, they do. Oh yeah, I was getting old, and I was like, I'm in school two six right, I was in college

that was a non traditional student. Bro. I started making it like I realized because like always gonna go to college, but I wasn't really passionate about anything, particularly in college. I couldn't figure it out. And I were like, oh, I would have to really do this up for this thing, Like just my little appearance are starting. I don't know what. I love a good dinner date, like I had a couple of months ago. I met some well, I met

someone new. He's you know, new, a new regular client, and we did um you know, he flew into New York and I took you know, we went to one of my favorite black owned restaurants in Harlem. We went to you know, went to the restaurant. Um, if you don't want to share his produs, I'm not gonna share it because yeah, I'm not gonna share. But we went. But we went to but we went to the spot, we had dinner, We went someplace else, we had drinks.

I took him to. It was during n f T and n y C Wings, so I took him to some events and then we went back to the hotel and we were hanging out. And it's like, but I love I love that opportunity to get to know people. And like, one of the things I always tell like newer sex workers, especially when I used to manage people, is that instead of trying to create a persona to be to be yourself right, because you can only fake You can only fake it for so long, and your

real life, your real interests are actually interesting. So like with this guy, we were able to have conversations around panic because he was from the continent, so we were able to have conversations around Pan Africanism. You know, he was like super interested in the experiences of Black Americans

in relationship to being ancestors that were stolen. And to be able to have those kinds of conversations with him over dinner and then at the end of the night go back to his home and give him the God you know, and and and for him to be like, wait, how much, how how much for you to stay for a little longer, Like you know, it's like, can you stay the night? And and I don't like I don't do overnights. I know a lot of a lot of like sex workers do, because I like to sleep by

my I don't want nobody. I don't want nobody waking up in a little night trying to put the dick and me like I'm not trying to be like I liked I like space in my bed, like I don't. I don't. It takes me a long time to be comfortable with somebody it would be able to ever fallen

in love with a client kind of. I mean yeah, I mean yeah when I had a I had like an eight year relationship with a client that was really wonderful, and you know, it was you know, he was my sugar daddy, and so we definitely were in love with each other, and you know, but by the time it was you know, there came a point when I wanted something more in my personal life than he was able

to provide. And so like when when he broke up with me, um, like I was I would saying, I've been really open about the fact that I had a variant cancer when I was young, when I was in my thirties, and so when the last time that I had cancer, he was like, I really want to be there. I can't be there. Uh, you know, I'm realizing that I love you too much. And so he broke up with me. But he gave me a six mes severance package. So not a severance package from a sugar daddy. Yes.

In fact, in fact, I was having a conversation with our mutual friend about we were talking about a celebrity that you know who has a bunch of women on retainer, and I was like, two dollars a year is not enough, because I hope he's also paying the taxes on the on that two K. I hope he's also paying for their wardrobe. I hope he's also maxing out there four oh one K and their roth Ira at the end

of the year. I hope, And I hope he's also giving you know, paying for their health insurance and giving them a severance package when it's over, because you're you're putting your life on hold to have an exclusive arrangement with somebody, and so your life and your career, which means that when that's over now it takes it's going to take time to get back into the game and

start being able to two ship. But I want to say that's been in terms of even being in those situations, right, how do you leave being sugar and making money from having sex to doing it out of love where there's no money involved. Maybe you're doing or have you ever? Yeah, I mean connection, You know I would definitely have broke love. What about you still get taken care of barbridgement? But I mean not everyone can just keep in Richmon, we're

talking about that relationship. Yeah, I mean I've had I've had you know, several ongoing you know, I've constantly been in relationship. I used to be a serial monogamous, so I remember, I'm a recovering serial monogamous. I'm like, definitely not interested in being in a relationship. Stop deeming me asking me if we can be in a relationship. But but I you know, it's it's just different. It's like for me, the money is the is the is the

dividing line. It's the line in the sand. Right. It's like, because I I show up for my clients in ways that in similar ways and how I show up with my partner part minus the emotional labor, right, minus the you know, it's like I'm not necessarily cooking dinner for you if you're a client, you know, because we're gonna go out to eat. Like I'm not going to you know, I'm not interested in you know, being around your kids, being around your kids. Nope, not you know, it's like

but yeah, yeah, it's not. It's not that hard for me to be able to make that transition back and forth. And also I've I've been in a lot of like ongoing long term relationships while also doing sex work. So it's for me, it's we've been able to navigate that. Did you ever have a partner that was like I feel like we have a lot of things, so like, well, what did you do when he was mad? But can you tell this someone that like celebrated it? I was excited about it for you. Yeah, I was dating this guy.

He you know, and in retrospect, like he should have been a Well, there's a couple of people. I had one person who should have been a one night stand and wanted being four years. Yeah, we all listen, A discern is a lot. But I had I had somebody that I dated for a while who was really hype about, like, you know, everything I was doing. Like I met him at a time when I was starting to write, when I was starting to do college lectures, when I was starting to do when I was with the Punani poets,

Like it's like, you know, what are your lecture? Um, I leo sure about? You know? Well, usually it's anything and everything happened to do with porn and sex work, particularly around my career. I do some stuff about finance,

like I've done. I've taught a class on economics and sex work at U c l A. I wanted to ask you that because you brought up n f T. I wanted to know if at any point, and this could be brief, but if you ever thought to make any of your porn and n f T and if that was a conversation and there's yeah, there's a few

of them. Um I have. I'm not quite there yet because I'm trying to figure out what kinds of additional features people will get with the n f T s that I already have some content that's laid out and then set for that. Did you Yeah, I'm made one on TV with Sham Boody. It was for fee, so Shan filmed my feet smashing into tacos. It was crazy.

And then I brought on and Dunlap if anyone wants to watch it this episode eight and I brought it me and Dunlap, who's called the Master Investor, and I was like, tell me what to do and he was like, oh my god, bro. So we had to name the page go on the site. But the thing that I didn't like about it there was a tangible item which would have been the food itself feet in some people

make it panties whatever. But for me, the reason I wasn't a fan of it is because you get actual like different currency, right, you get something called polk ins. So whatever the site has that's selling the porn n f T, it's its own currency. And for me, I want to do an actual dollar exchange or something like that. You know what I'm saying that I was gonna donate it, but then it ended up not going out. But I was like, yo, when I was thinking about it, if

I donated my feet for charity, what the fuck? They? Yeah, I have a I have a hard time with it with n f T is because of the fact that crypto is is so like you know, it's so volatile, you know, and so it's like for me, it's like, well, if I sell this to somebody for two dollars and then by the time I get ready to transfer the money, it's only worth like fifty dollars, then what did I

just do? Like I'd rather just take the stock drop right like, And that's and that's real, Like, that's that's that's one of the big problems that I have with Like everybody keeps talking about crypto and and n f T s as a way of being able to circumvent the issues with MasterCard and Visa. But it's like not everybody has that's not a viable option for people. But we also talking about market rates. Is their market rates for pussy and how did you how did how are

those rates looking like today? Like you talked about what the blow jobs are imporn, but in terms of sugaring or escorting, like what are like the market rates? I mean the mart the market rates that depends it value. It varies depending on your location. Right, So in New York is high New York in DC is high. But I was living in l A. I used to fly back and forth once a month, like just so that I could I would make all my money haven't expensive.

L A don't care about black people. That's where they're

are not interested in black women. Like I mean, there's some like come to New York and they want so many black areas are war Hive taught me that, Like I was kind of on that ship too, but then like I learned Black l A. And now that I just stick to it, I'm like it's differed about park Is Baldwin Hills it's fucking west out of I mean, it's it's there's there's you get a few people, you know, you get you know a lot of celebrities, athletes, you know,

you get your There's a small percentage of black you know wealth in l A that is also interested in spending money on sex workers, on black sex workers. I mean, you know, they're really looking for people who are more who are more light skin, more ethnically ambiguous, Like they're not looking for black women. You know what I'm saying. I'm a black woman, so they're not they're not really checking for me. But if I go to Atlanta, Atlanta, the guys are looking to spend less money, Like they

want to spend between five hundred and eight hundred. You know, they might want to do a half hour because if your raid is a thousand, they want to try or eight hundreds, they want to do a half hour just so that they can try to like you know, navigate how they they can they can try to get in there um and like I don't do I used to do half hours because I want to be able to see black men, but I don't do that anymore because it's like a half hour is not a half hour.

A half hour is really like forty five minutes. So because we gotta have a conversation, we gotta get to know each other, we gotta catch a vibe. And even then, like for a lot of them, because these they're fans, they've been watching me in porn for so long, they get intimidated and they get like anxiety, you know, performing anxiety, And I'm like, I'm not gonna be sitting here second you a dick for forty minutes. That's not my job. That's I mean, it's my job. Like, that's got my job.

I actually I wondered that was like sex workers are point actress is like I would see it a lot on Twitter when they'll like put their city dates and I've always took taken that is like, okay, this is like sex workers ship. I'm in the tour, you know what I I mean. Don't think the name now what the city that they are with the dates, But it's my mind has n y C. Like like yeah, I mean, but but like New York, d C, Boston. The rate, the going rate is between like a thousand and fifteen

hundred an hour. Um, some people will do half hours. I'm seeing a lot of younger women now who are doing you know, like a two or three hour minimum or a dinner date you know, dinner date minimum. And I think a lot of those people are tend to be people who also are probably have a day job or so then you know, or they're you know, they don't have to have the um, they don't have to

do volume, right, you know. But you do see some people who you know are willing to you know, to book still for five hundred you know, four hundred, five hundred, six hundred an hour because they can make it up in volume. Yeah, do you have a maxim dickts in a day? One a day, one a day just then, And I don't even like, is it the energy? It's the energy I'm grown like, I don't really I don't have that. I don't have the energy to do all

that I wasna saying it more than his money. It's like you just feel like I need to have other ships and also like and also it's hard, it's hard now that i'm you know, now that I'm doing like

i'm you know, my as a community organizer. I'm constantly happy to switch back and forth between my sex work brain and my like educator, my educator brain and so like you know, last week I had a call with the l County Health Department about doing a monkey Pops vaccine clinic and Medicaid enrollment program, like like we're gonna actually get because the work that we do with a Bipop Collective, we have a lot of people who do up to us for financial assistance and they're looking for

money for med's therapy hrt s like you know, like things like that, and it's like we can only give out so much money like we have. If we give give somebody five hundred dollars and they're unhoused, like that money is not gonna or or if they need groceries and meds like that, that ship is not gonna go. It's gonna go fast, and they're still gonna need meds

next month, Like do you know what I'm saying? So I was, you know, it's it's a long term manifestation for me, like I've been wanting to do a Medicaid enrollment program for a while, and they reached out to us about the vaccine resistance around monkey poks, which I was like, you know at the time, you had to have like what was it, um you had to identify it from you had you had to be a man or a trans person who has sex with men who also was having commercial sex, anonymous sex or was on housed.

And I was like, well, in the you can't. You're not gonna reach black and brown men if they're not out as being as being gay and you're asking trans people to to like disclose at their trend so and and also how about like the sex world women who assist women who are sex workers, or the black, black and brown women who because of cultural stigma, don't know that they're having sex with somebody who's Yes. I'm working with the Florida Health Department for an event on October

seven in Orlando. It's called Risky. It's a dinner seven to nine for AIDS awareness, all women, no men. And I remember when I, you know, got the offer. I was like, oh, okay, yeah, that I'm like, but honestly, when do women talk about it? Hey, it's awareness? You know, we we don't we don't, you know, like we're talking about it amongst our gay friends generally because maybe either we're having more experience with them being aware about it or being on TREP and things like that. But we

don't talk about this ship. We don't talk about it at all. And that's and for me, it's like, you know, when I was talking to them, I was like, look, I'm like, this is something that we've been wanting to do. If you have access to to medicaid navigators, you know, enrollment navigators, and you can bring them to the table, because I think a lot of sex workers don't know that they could qualify for medicaid based on how much

they mean. Because you know, it's like we talk about only fans, but it's like the average person is only making a hundred and twenty dollars a month on only fans. So you you make me want to talk about something. You guys, remember the I G model think her name is Gianna that got HIV really badly. I wrote a comment on Hollywood Unlocked. Basically she was talking about she even raped a few times and she was homeless and people were like, well, how did you not know you

had HIV so long? And when of the compas said this thing, I said, Yo, a lot of people she's like, how could you not go get tested? I'm like, a lot of people don't have access like that. And when I say access, I don't just mean insurance. People are like, oh, there's a free clinic, like the access to and understand

think about what this podcast does. How people now figure out we've shouted out the dino that we went to bro Like, people are not really experiencing relationships, friendships or communities where you're learning about how to get healthcare accent as a real fucking thing. So when you're saying, oh, so and so I can walk into a free spot, people don't even think this is real sometimes, like they don't know how to do it. And and it's like

you have you to go into those free clinics. It's like you're you're talking about you know, the you know the cost of being poor, right, It's like you might have to be in a free clinic for like ten hours just to get tested. Nobody has ten hours to be there. Like when I was on this this Monkey Pop's call, the woman was talking about like it's like they were like, oh, you have to have a computer to go online to to schedule for an appointment and

then we send you a text message. And I was like, so you're expecting the people to have act the internet and a laptop ana phone and have their phone on all the time, Like how like people don't like there's there's times when because I don't have I don't have my my phone service set up on on auto pay right because I don't like to for money to just

disappear from my bank account. So it's like, but there are times when I'll wake up and I'll be like, oh, funk, I forgot to pay the phone bill, Like let me, let me pay it real quick. And it's like, but I have means to be able to do that. What about people who don't have that means? Like you're expecting them to have this access for when you finally decide to get around to to texting them about an appointment.

But also the way they were like doing specifically, like the weird and how you identify sexuality wise, that was why this summer, especially because New York it was hot out here, I didn't really go to the sex club because even lifestyle and being that it was something that just touched to touch a lot of the clubs that I go to, they don't ask you if you're straight. So there are a lot of people that are queer.

I'm dealing with men and women and again so even lifestyle wise, you don't know what straighter gay is probably gonna be problematic. It's problematic one too, even if they are straight and not gay, that doesn't guarantee that we won't get monkey pox. And I think there's gonna be a huge surge in the hetero community. Is everybody just gaming, Well, they set it down so they are getting in control of it. Yeah, I mean, I mean it's it's hard.

But but but to go back to the original question about like, how do I you know like the way that I because I don't. I see fewer clients these days than I than I used to. So I might see somebody, you know, I have this one person that I'm seeing once a month and then I have an and and that's you know, somebody might reach out to me. But I'm really picky, like I have I have protocols. UM. So I run people I get, do a full background check, I do a criminal background check. I run them through

the sex offender registry. UM, because I want to make sure that I know that the person that I'm that's gonna see me is not violent. Um. You know, at least on paper, you have to pay to do that yourself. UM. There's a couple of resources that I they're they're not. I'll send you some some stuff ex curious for the ballpark for people that will may like like like twenty dollars a month for one platform. And then there's Blacklist.

There's like there's like um go on and they share like information about about bad A lot of those wild A lot of them went away during the FATA, A lot of one away, but there are still options out there. Um So I do that, and then I also, like I look at their social media because sometimes I don't use social media for screening, um alone, but I do look at social media because I want to get an idea of who this person is, right, because people they you know, they show their ass on social media, like

the comments. I look through their their tweet, their tweet, their replies, I look through the types of stuff that they're liking, you know. And and then I also I take a deposit, and you know, I take a thirty percent deposit because I just because I'm not gonna waste my time getting ready for somebody to cancel, to cancel or no show. And and it's a nonrefundable deposit. They

get one time within three months to rebook um. And I also need proof of COVID vacs, you know, vaccine also because because we're still you know, COVID is still in these streets. You know what I'm saying. This is amazing, Honestly with you. I think a lot of men just think when they see that someone's putting their city or dates that they're like cool, like look me up and see. I get mad people who will tell me that that's what I'm asking for is too much, And I'm like, well,

let me go to somebody else. Then go to somebody else, because you know, like, fortunately I make you comfortable, like make me comfortable. And I tell guys this all the time. I'm like, you know, at the end of the day, it's like, you know who I am. I don't know about you, and I'm still a woman. You're you're a man, Like you're asking me and we're about to be alone. We're about to be alone. You should want me to be comfortable. You should want because really a lot of

the screening for me is about compliance. If you're willing to give me the information that I asked for with no problems, we don't have to go back and forth. You're just like, here you go. Oh, here's the screening for him. Here you go, and they just you just do whatever I ask. Then I'm more likely to want to see you because now you made you made this a lot easier. But you should want me to be comfortable. You want it goes away for a moment. I think Ben will realize that I had a guide tell me

recently that I sucked years ago. He said, uh, I don't even remember doing this. When we were in Miami and he said that there was like a two bedroom sweet and I said, are you sure no one's in here? And I opened the door to check when he was in the bathroom. I remember he was like, are you trying to look through my stuff? I was like, no, I just want to make sure in the room. Yeah, he told me because I ran into him your later,

it was super what weeken I saw. He was like, you know what makes me think you every time girls come to my house, I'll be trying to make sure they know nobody else in here. Is like, do you want them to feel comfortable? That was like the highest compliment because because ship like that happens, like you know, there's there are there's always that situation where somebody is trying to set a woman up on some bullshit, you know what I'm saying, Like, especially sex workers, especially if

you are a substance user. It's like and and women should be checking like you should just the same way that you if you put your glass down in the club walk away up. I was at the Box last night and it's fashion week, so if the club is backed, there's a dark room in the box where everybody does drugs. I could hear a girl. This guy was like, do you want to do a bump? And she's like bump of what? And he's like, oh, it's coke. She was

like can you do it first? And he's like, oh, I had a lot, and she was like I'm good, and the girl walked out. I was like, you, that's right, all right. But like if the dude like you're it wants you to do drugs with him, I won't do the drugs. I was like, yo, shout out to this speech. And I remember starting at the guy all night wondering like, oh, should I like watch the women? But now I've also drunk,

so I'm getting my mom break on. I'm like, oh, make sure these girls don't make sure they're okay, but but like, can you just imagine just thinking you're having a good time going to a do the hotel room with Bama and other dude comes out to That's what I was thinking about, or a group of dude because that happens to I appreciate you like sharing with everyone

a lot of tips for sex work. And also like obviously I know, I mean the outline so we never get to it, but talking about porn, what would you say before the internet is before the internet before it's sucking nuts, it's nuts, you know, and it's funny because you know, I remember I did a UM, I did an event with UM Vanessa del Rio UM here in New York, one of my first big trips to New York, and we were having a conversation about what it was like when she first arted in the seventies and the

going rate Jesus at that time was in that was a lot. That was a lot back. But also not because you know, the porn industry is one of the few forms of sex of entertainment that does not have residuals. So people like Vanessa Del Rio or Genie Pepper, you know, who are still alive, who are you know, in their

sixties or or older. They are their movies are on the Internet, and they're not getting any money from that, right, So people are that's the crazies about the craziest only fans scale Now we can like now you can monetize

because it's a it's a subscription. But it's the same thing that's happening, like get our dollars back the dollars it's but it's happening now with the Internet, Like actors are actually not seeing residuals anymore if they're going if they're shooting streaming, anything on streaming, So anything that you shoot on Netflix, anything that you shoot on HBO Max, any of those streaming platforms, if you're on there, you're

not getting the residuals. Like say everyone who was on Family Matters or The Cosby Show and all these they're still getting checks to his day. Yeah, and it's and it doesn't happen. I mean like the you know Napster, when Napster attacked the music industry and the porn industry simultaneously, the music industry was suing. I remember there was a case where they sued some teenage boy in Seattle for

like a million dollars. Right, the porn industry was so cocky that they thought that they would never be impacted by by by budget and by the Internet. And and as a result, porn Hub X two, exits x two, Red tub the Creator and now they have their own creative platforms. But they had to because of the mass pushback of you're not paying people, this is all stolen content. Yeah, porn stars at one point all just started making their

own website. So we're like, like I remember, and that was probably like the late two thousand's where I started seeing porn stars say, hey, don't watch any of my porn on any of these sy please come to my actual website and purchased through me, because I guess at

money is kind of nuts. Like I just was thinking for a second, you know, I was just really excited because we talked to so many only fans, girls and sex workers, and I'm like, damn, someone that's been through it all, as I know a lot of this ship you talking about, I can't leave. We lived through the yeah. Yeah. But also it's like changed every decade it I mean, I was one of the first black women with a solo model website back Yeah, and and and I owned

a webcam company and get it was. It was so crazy because we used to have to teach I would teach models to to move in a way that would allow it to so it wouldn't be trying, it wouldn't be like yeah exactly because we were running a T one line into my guest house. But the on the other end, there were people who were still on twenty eight dialogue. Yeah, but that wasn't that long ago. That's what we were like this like real flow was a white Why did we get into this? Where her fact?

This is nuts? Yeah okay, but but we really had to like we had to teach models how to move kind of like so that on the other end it would look fluid when they downloaded it. That we have five g Can you tell people where to support you today online? If any place? Hell yeah, um, single in Brooklyn dot com is the place to find all the places to find me on the internet and single in

Brooklyn dot com. So you can go there. You can find the only fans, you can find the cam site that I'm that I sometimes when I feel like it, you know, get on um you can find links to my sex panther so that you can, you can call me, text me, video chat with me. Um. You know, all all of the things, my social media everything is right there along with if you want to watch any of my other inner views, you know, downloads and pictures y'all. Blah blah blah. I really enjoyed talking about. Don't worry,

I'm going anyway. And you don't want to support us horrible decisions dot com back slash, No Patreon dot com back slash, horrible decisions. Um. We have our town hall every month. You can see Mandy and I face to face. We've got merge and we honestly do all of our we call catch up and mustard now, but those episode that's basically I have not got one with them. So and then also, if you guys won't merch like you see behind us here, go to hore hive dot com

and get your merch. Hopefully we have some news designs coming soon. But we always have our segmented shirt, our tight eyed shirt. We got the het. So going over to or hive dot com and Kitty said, thank you so very much for joining us, This was amazing. Appreciate you so much. That's so much hope. Did you guys, enjoyed this episode as well. Um and this has Vin yet again another episode of poor decisions by y'all, like, um, yeah, so who knows, maybe I'll meet a hot Spotify exactly now.

That's honestly the only reason I kind of like go into events, because I'd just be like, who am I gonna meet? Because I realized, and I'm gonna say it before we get to Vanillashi because it's a good one. I'd be fucking with a lot of niggas that aren't necessarily well to do. And we had this conversation altogether

after the link up, uh huh. We all want to eat, and I was talking about how I feel i'd really be broke niggas and Brent was like, I think that's because you just like feel like you don't have time for niggas with money because they're so used to bitches working hard for them, right, And he didn't he didn't get Kevin Samuel's on me at all. He was like, but it's not like you don't want dudes to take care of ship for you. He's like, so, why do

you think it's attractive? On the other side, and I that I think that I'm low key attracted to guys that aren't necessarily the castanova of the crew because they're not scared to show how much they like me. Like sometimes when like rich dudes are athlete, you know what I'm saying, Like I'm not saying they don't you trying to haul at me, but like we I mean we had this conversation literally just they don't. They really don't.

But you said you wanted an industry because you thought it would be easier for an industry dude than of regulantly. So now it's the opposite. No, no, no, no no, no, I still do. But I'm saying He's like, why do you think you've been like having these run ins with like you know, think about hospital dick or the skater dude or whatever. He's like, why do you think this is happening? And I said, I don't think industry dudes for rich niggas necessarily be the ones that give me

the same energy. Like I like guys that like me, you know what I'm saying, Like if I when when someone's giving me that energy, I'm like, yeah, I'm waiting. And sometimes they got rich nigga's got too many options to where like Brianda's it's something to me that I really liked. She's been dating a lot, and she said, if I go on, if I have a date schedule to someone and they don't seem excited about the date or text me that day or screenshot the reservation, I cancel.

She's like, I'm not really into someone that's gonna hit me up right before, Like I want someone that's on it. And she was like, because that's the energy that I'm actually interested in investing in. And I was like, I feel that that's a little dramatic, but I know what she's saying with that, because we all want someone that feels excited to see us and feels like they're lucky to be taking us out somewhere. But I got it. I do, especially if I say yes to going out

with you. It's it's strange, maybe be just because I have, like I actually really hate my phone, so I like when it's literally just a hey, where you at, I'm gonna pull up on you? Or Hey, what you're doing? Do you want to pull up on me? I realized you like that. I hate texting. I don't want it to get a text me on it because I don't respond No, I like, I like planned, and you I'm

surprised you don't. You don't planned because you're a plan I mean, I know I like a plan date, but like, like I've literally been like and I've realized it's more like that. When I see I have free time, I'd be like, well, let's do lunch, like I've done that with Black Jesus, Like should I just finished recording and I'm stressed, and he'll be like, we'll pull up. I'm a Dumbo house, we'll eat here. That's that's that's our first date. You're talking about something different, But no, I'm

just saying I don't need the texting. I don't need the Hey, it's so excited to see you a reservation, like I know what's happening. I'm I realized how much of a non responder I am in text messages now because I really just hate my phone. I mean, if I was dating some you're dating Black Jesus already, so you guys can find talking to see each other. You don't like when men send you reservations? Seriously, No, No,

I didn't say that. I'm talking about the texting screenshot at me and like the texting I've realized I am not in to whatsoever like all FaceTime you or we can link up to talk. I realized how minimal I am. Yeah, I don't mean I don't need a lot of threat. I'm talking about someone showing that they're like, I don't know, I I agree if i'm if I have a date with someone Friday. Actually I did have a date last week. I went to the Short Stories Hotel or two weeks ago.

The dude our date was at five around twelve, He's like, hey, Gila, looking forward, Um, I'll be there five where you are We still good? And I was like, oh, well, I like this Okay, Like I I do appreciate that, not on some like corporate worky ship, but I do think sometimes it's nice to feel like you know, you're you remembered me or I'm I'm not an afterthought. I guess, um, okay, I want to talk about something real quick that I

didn't put in the outline. But I just found this on the Shade Room and I could not believe this bitch. Did you see the Erica Banks clip of her saying what she wants people to look like that go out with her? Now? Erica Bank is the girl that's a rapper, then you know what I'm saying for everybody else is you look. So someone recorded this from her close friends and they just posted this and this is what she said. This is basically what she was