Official Box Owner Presents: Period, Sis- There's No Heartbeat

It's not okay. You need to go to hospital. It's fine. I just need to let me know. Just get your hands off my miscarriage. It's mine, It's mine. That was a clip from the series Lee Bag. Hi, guys, welcome to another episode of Periods SIS, brought to you by the official box owner. I'm your girl, Mandy B. And

this episode again if you heard the trigger warning. Um. This was actually the first episode that I recorded for Periods This and it brought so much emotion to me, knowing that these conversations were now coming to the forefront, specifically regarding situations that I myself has have not been through as a woman. This episode will show you just how strong a black woman can be and how determination will drive her to be exactly who she wants to be. And in this case, it's a mother. Um. And so

I guess I'll give you yet another trigger warning. The content and material that you were about to hear UM can trigger many people who have experienced anything of this nature regarding trying to get pregnant. So I just want to warn you. And so this is another tale of womanhood by women for women today. I'm super excited to be joined with Lindsay mctush burns. She is a pregnancy and infant loss awareness advocate, host of Journey Firm infertility podcast,

and the mother of two rainbow babies. Hi, Lindsay, thank you for joining me booth. Thank you for having me girl, thank you, thank you. I'm super excited. So for those of you who are not aware on what a rainbow baby is, a rainbow baby is a term for a child born to a couple who has previously lost a child due to miscarriage, still birth, or death during infancy.

These subsequent pregnancies can bring strong feelings of anxiety, guilt, and even fear, but also a men's joy, reflection, healing and mixed emotions, and that's kind of what we're actually going to go through, um during this episode. So I guess before we start anything, Lindsay, can you let our audience know how many miscarriages, unfortunately you have experienced. So I have had a total of six miscarriages, so that

actually included a still birth at thirty four weeks. I've had miscarriages before fourteen weeks, and then I've actually had two E topic pregnancies and one of those topic pregnancies resulted in me losing one of my fallopian two's and that's at an ET topic pregnancy. Can you explain what that is because I'm not familiar with the term, so A, the topic pregnancy is when you have a pregnancy that is really pretty much in one of your fallopian two's.

Usually it's not viable and the only way to either get it removed is through like any emergency surgery. So I've had to go through two emergency surgeries and get one of my fallopian twos removed. Wow, So I I I specifically when I when I thought too to have an episode on this specific topic. Um. You know, I've known you since high school and I have gotten to

almost kind of share this with you. You've been very open on social media um about your journey through this process, and so I want to go back to your very first pregnancy, and I want to kind of walk our audience through you being excited about pregnancy um and then losing it, and then further on into the conversation. I definitely want to get into how you got to six and kept trying. I think a lot of people who

who go through this kind of give up hope. So I want this to be an episode that gives hope to those women that may have been through the same experience as you and have given up, especially for you to now be a proud mother of two. So can you go ahead and kind of just start and and and tell your story about going through through the miscarriage

and how that made you felt. Yeah, So the first miscarriage, of course, I was probably about eighteen nineteen years old, had a boyfriend, so just going through the usual process. We weren't planning to get pregnant, of course, but it happened, and you know, everything was going fine. Went to my regular appointments and went out of town one time and then came back and just going for a usual appointment

and they couldn't find a heartbeat. So I was about thirteen weeks at that point, so I was still in my first trimester. So that alone was inexperience just by itself, because one what was a miscarriage? I had no clue what a miscarriage was, no understanding, and then just being left with nothing so I had to actually go and have a surgery to get this baby removed and everything with that too. So it was something that I had not even experienced, and nobody around me knew what that was.

So we were so sighted and then just and then gone, what was there any any news from the doctor um during this first miscarriage as to maybe what led to it? What was there anything that was done wrong? Was there? You know? No, you just went in for a check up and they were like, there's no heartbeat. That just went in for a check up. They did an ultrasound and of course the baby was there, but there was no heartbeat and there was really no explanation for it

at all. Oh wow, So so this happens, and I think, honestly, I mean, there's a lot of stories where you know, maybe someone has gone through one mm hmm. Go to where you are now at miscarriage number three. This has now happened twice. Um, maybe you're starting to feel like you may never be able to have children. What are your thoughts when you experienced this for the third time. So the third time was actually after I lost my son,

so that was the freak out part. So of course this my son was born and still at thirty four weeks. So I went through and this was this was the second Yeah, that was my second one. Okay, so actually let's take a step back then, So your second pregnancy, you made it full term and your your son was born still. Yes, so okay, so this is completely different from the first time around. Can you walk us through that experience then? Yes. So with my son, we went

to regular appointments. Everything measured up good all the time. Um, I didn't have any issues with this pregnancy at all. So like I didn't have any cases of like diabetes or any high blood pressure or anything like that. And just one day I wasn't I really wouldn't wasn't feeling good and I had this weird feeling and had some pains that day or that week before, but of course I didn't think anything of it. Because he used to kick hard anyway, so it didn't alarm anything to me.

But that following week, like I was at work, lost my mucus plug and so of course my contraction started while I'm at work and call my doctor. They said, well, just come on, come over to the hospital and we'll check you out. And then we get there, they're trying to put the monitor on me for the baby, so to get the fetal heart rate, and she can't find the heartbeat, so she's giggling. She's like, oh, they know, the baby's just running from me. Can't find the heartbeat,

you know, whoop the whoop. But it goes on a little bit too long. So then she was like, okay, well let me go get the ultrasound machine and we're gonna go look and see what's going on. So she gets the ultrasound machine and then you just see her face just go completely blank. And and of course at that time, I work in cardiology, so this is something that I see on a regular basis, so I can tell when people are trying to give me a poker

face about something. So I'm like, what's wrong, and she's like, oh, wait, we should just wait for the doctor. So she's trying to find the heartbeat and I hear it go off and there's nothing. So it's just really like silence. You just hear the water washing in my stomach. But then she kept trying and she didn't hear a heartbeat, and I asked her again, I said, what's going on? She was like, just wait for the doctor to come in. And so soon as she walked out of the room,

I told my mom and I told my boyfriend. I said, there was no heartbeat. He was like, what you mean. I was like, there was no heartbeat? And how many months in are you at this point? Nine months? Oh? Okay, which is why they felt comfortable telling you, hey, just come on in. And usually around that time, you know, most women go through like Braxton Higgs, which is like

false labor and stuff like that. So those contractions, you know, they bring you into monitor just to see like, Okay, are you actively in labor or is this something that's just going on for a spell, you know, So that was really ultimately what was going on, because I was still kind of early, but it was still close enough for me to just go in and come in for monitoring. But once the doctor came in, he did the ultrasound again and he didn't see the heartbeat. It was like, yeah,

there's no heartbeat. Um. And then actively then after that like we're gonna have to go ahead and just admit

you so we can get this baby out. And I want I'm not gonna lie like this is having me like, oh my god, yeah, like girl, I even kind of hear your voice cackling a little bit, and I'm just like I don't want to cry and i gotta keep my So I want to know at this point, you're they're pretty much gonna induce labor, and you know that there's no heartbeat, but you have to go through giving birth to a baby that you know may not be

a baby. What is? What is? What emotions do you have at this at this point, Like all, are you distraught? Are you planning a funeral in your head already? Are you thinking of how your partner's gonna take this? What's literally going through your mind at this moment? At that point, I just it was literally like everything went silent for me personally, um, because I didn't know what Again, I don't know what's going on. I've never had to I've never been through this, so I did not know what

to say. I didn't know what to do. But it seems like as soon as that happened, it seemed like everybody started coming to the hospital, Like I don't know what. I don't know what went on in that process, but everybody started showing up to the emergency room with me, and I'm like, I don't know what the heck is going on, Like why are all y'all here? Who told

you all that I was here? Um? Like, and I'm trying my best, like to just be okay, because like everybody is trying to figure out what's going on, and I still haven't figured it out for myself. When you say everybody, that everybody like everyone that works at the hospital, or all of your family members and friends, all of my family and friends. So let me let me ask you this question, because at this point everyone's coming in,

you don't know who told who what. It's just something that you would have rather been alone to cope with yourself and deal with yourself for a little bit. Or were you happy that friends and families showed up for you? It was kind of like both, like because I think more so that I think what happened that people they think my boyfriend had told them, like I'm probably going into labor, and so people just started coming. But in the midst of them coming, then we find out this news.

So then it's kind of like I wish y'all wouldn't have come at all, Like, but I embraced it, like they tried their best to keep me uplifted and all that, but it was more sorrow than it was happiness at that point because again, and on top of that, nobody around me, of course, like I'm at this point, hide around me has been through like miscarriages and stuff like this. Nobody knows what the hell is going on. So this

is what I had to deal with. And so before the age of twenty one, you literally have gone through uh a miscarriage and then a full term still still birth. Yes, oh oh okay, So I'm sorry it's so crazy because of course, I mean, I I'm one that doesn't even want, you know, a child, and so to hear this knowing and I know of your excitement. I saw your post. You were very um excited about your pregnancy, and then I did um start to see the post. And I want you to get into this because before we get

into the other instances of miscarriages that you experienced. You did have a funeral for the sun Um, Yeah, I want I want you to share kind of what decisions were made once you realize this baby would not be able to be taken home with you. So eventually it came to the point like I literally had to go like literally had to go through labor and delivery, had to get an epidural, all this stuff, delivered the baby pretty much myself caught my baby um before the doctor

even got there. And so within probably like twelve hours or so, somebody came in my room and said, it was a chaplain at the hospital, what do you want to do? Do you want to have a funeral? Do you want to have the baby cremated? Um? And they gave me this list of options. Pretty much options were given to you almost immediately, yes, like as if you're not going through the loss of a child. This was literally brought to you after you damn near caught the

baby in your hand. Yeah, probably, like probably, like because I delivered that morning at like three o'clock in the morning. By noon, somebody was already in my room saying okay, well what And it was the most disgusting thing, like hindsight now, Like hindsight now, I think it was the most disgusting thing that i've and I I hate that hospital to this day. I hate the smell, the look. I could ride by there and shoot the bird every

time I do. And so it's like a chaplain came in and said, well, you know, we're sorry for your loss, but you know, do you want to have like a memorial? Do you want to have a funeral? Like And then the three options that they gave me with my child is do you want to have a funeral? Do you want to bury the baby? This is how much it will cost the funeral home, which is really across the street. How much this will cost to do a funeral. Do you want to just have the baby cremated? This is

how much it will cost. Or you can get the baby cremated for free, and we can spread the ashes over in the cemetery off of somewhere somewhere. And at that point what piss me off is that I think I don't remember if anybody was in the room with me when this happened. But the option that I picked, I regret it now to this day, and I will say did you what what option did you select out of those and the the free one? Because one, I'm young, we weren't. We weren't prepared. I mean we were, but

we weren't prepared for this. So my option will if you're if you have a baby on the way, you have diapers, you have thoughts of similac and carriages and and binkies, and those things are a lot more materialistic. You know, I'm sure you got them in a baby shower. No one thinks that I'm having a baby. Let me set aside costs for a funeral or cremation, right, And you know, like I said, hindsight, I wish I would

have done something different. But the option I picks was to have to be baby cremated and have their ashes spread across across this garden that's not too far from my house now, and I haven't, you know, really no real memories or anything to hold onto, Like I don't have a grave site that I can go to. I don't have a bottle of ashes in my house. But then I think about it too and say, well, do I really did I really want that? Like? Did I

really want their ashes at my house? Or do I really want to go and sit somewhere and grieve my child. So it's really it's kind of a teeter totter between everything, but that option was the only one that made sense to me at that point. And I wish somebody would have told me or had a sound mind by me when that happened, that this would be, you know, at least try to do something that you can hold on

to more close than sending the ashes off somewhere. And then you really don't even know if it happened or not. Oh wow, So of the so after experiencing this, you still wanted to try. You wanted a baby. You had felt almost like you grew with this baby, and so you continue trying. Between miscarriage three and six were how what were they? Were they the same miscarriages as as the first one? What did you have another stillborn um

or how were they different than the first two? So the one after the stillborn it was pretty much probably within like the first eight weeks, and majority of the rest of them they were all pretty much the same. So that when that after one after the loss of my son, that was before eight weeks, and then there was a couple of years gap before I even got

pregnant again because I wasn't actively trying to. I wouldn't date nobody after that because even then me and my boy friend had broke up, so I wasn't even making an attempt to try to have kids. But I still wanted to have more kids after that. So once I got with my now husband, I had another miscarriage and then two eck topic pregnancies right after that. So I want to ask you, after experiencing like I said six, some women experienced one or two and give up, did

you go to any doctors? Did you have any sort of therapy after this to give you the courage to keep trying. Yeah, so I went to doctor's appointments. Um, like right after my after the sect the third miscarriage, I started going to a doctor like I forgot what kind of doctor was, So it's more like I went to like an end of chronologist. I went to a blood therapist or a blood doctor to see if it was something going on with me. Everything came out clear,

so it's something that they just really don't know. I had autopsy done on my son. They didn't say anything was wrong. So wait, wait, wait, wait, so you're getting checked up and you're seeing all of these different spells specialists and they're telling you that you're completely healthy and ready and willing to have a baby. But this has happened to you multiple times. That has was that not frustrating,

very very frustrating. And so after that, like I literally had to get away from my O B office all of those physicians and stuff that I had been dealing with. I had to kind of just let it go because

I felt like that wasn't helping my situation. And then like when I had my two topic pregnancies, that's when I really got fed up and I said, Okay, I gotta leave this doctor's office alone because the lady who I was dealing with, if I could call her all kinds of B words and everything else, because you would she she did because the days that because I literally had her twice when I had my e topics, so she had to do my surgery twice. So the first time she told me I was like the luckiest thing

in the world because I didn't die from it. And then the second time she told me, well, you know, you're still young. You might be able to have kids, but she won't be able to have them on your own, um wow, And she was told yes, and she told my husband this like while we're like, while I'm still in recovery. So she's having a conversation with my my mom, my dad, my husband and telling him like, whoa, she'll never have kids on her own. And you know, even

though it's still it's still kind of early. She has time, she'll be able to have kids, but again, she won't be able to have him on her own. Now. Can I ask you, at any point did this start to like resonate with you? At any point did you say, I'm gonna have to find a Sarah Gett or maybe I'm gonna have to find maybe I'm gonna have to adopt. After after going through you know, this many experiences with not being able to fulfill a full term birth, did you ever have an idea that maybe you would not

be able to experience that. Yes, that moment that she told my husband that I believed her, and I stopped and I literally was like, Okay, so I'm just gonna have to deal with the fact that I'm not gonna have kids. I'm gonna have to go through i v F treatment, or I'm gonna have to find a surrogate or go through adoption, like I hope he doesn't leave me in the process of this that I wanted to be cautious about this. I didn't want to get excited.

But you, you pushed, and you pushed. So congratulations, Toby. He got me excited. Yeah. Well, I'm not going to apologize about being excited. We didn't lose the baby because we got our hopes up. All right, it just happened. It happened to me, it didn't happen to you. Now. I will be your entire support system through all of this. I will hold your head in my lap, and I will stroke your hair, and I will tell you that everything is going to be okay until the cows come home.

But what I will not do, what is not fair for you to do, is to tell me that I wasn't a part of this. Now, Yeah, it didn't happen to my body. I get that. I have no idea what that must be like for you. And I'm trying to be strong here because that's the gig. But it happened to me too, and it hurt, and it's so it's crazy that you say that, because I want to get into that conversation that I don't think it's had enough. So you're married, you have too At topic? Did I

say right? At topic pregnancies with your husband? You guys are trying um and finally you do succeed. But I want to know how you feel his emotions were going through this process with you. Do you feel like a man's emotions during this process matters even because you know this is something that definitely takes place in a woman's body, But I don't think we never really acknowledge how it

makes our partners feel. So can you get into maybe what your conversations were like after going through the topic pregnancies and you guys really trying you and your husband. Yeah, so with my husband, like when we first had because I've had three miss like pretty much three miscarriages with him, so we were grieving a portion of something because he

had never experienced this. And of course, my husband's older and he does have other kids, so this was something that he had never experienced before, and he already knew my history. So this was something totally different from what I had with my you know, my previous boyfriend, and and you know, we didn't talk. Me and my boyfriend didn't talk about our emotions when it came to our pregnancy with my son, so when it came to this one, it was something a whole, a whole different experience with

me because I had never had this with someone. So, yes, we grieved, we were upset, but that wasn't the end of the line. He was like, that does not stop me from loving you. We're gonna keep trying and when it happens, it's gonna happen. And and he literally told me, when it happens, you're gonna have a bunch of babies. And now I got to So I would like to know, just because if anyone's listening that's gone through us, and maybe they don't have, you know, a partner that's as

open as your husband is. I want to know what did that grieving process look like for both of you to successfully make it out? Um? What? What? Yeah? If you could just explain to us what your grieving process looked like. So for me, it was more I had to go and find somebody to help me, So I needed therapy. I started going through um a hospital that's

not the one that I was going through. They had a bereavement office that had a program that's like a like a pregnancy after loss or you know, their bereavement

advocates for for women for parents who've lost kids. So that was my starting point with me grieving, and so I started to bring him along in the process with me like we would just I would just more bring it home with me because he was going through some other things and of course he already has a therapist that he goes through, so we were both just going through different therapists for grieving in the process, and then we would just come together and we would just speak

on it. We'll cry, we hug each other, we do anything just to be together. But make sure that we expressed ourselves in regards to this, because if you don't talk about it, it's gonna fest her up and it's gonna fester up in different things in your life. So we had to talk about it. And that was just one thing that we've already always just learned through our own therapy sessions that you know, you got to talk about what's going on with you. And I know people

grieve differently. Um. Actually, a couple of friends of mine recently have went through either still births or a wrapped in biblical cord or miscarriages, and something that I've seen them do is the celebration of their birthdays. Now, with going through the stillborn um and your miscarriages, which because they didn't make it to full term, I completely understand not having a celebration, but with you're stillborn, do you do you recognize the birthday after after the fact? And

what is that? Like? I literally it's something I used to do with other people, but I tend to do it now by myself. Every year on the birthday, I'll go to the cemetery. I get, however many balloons, So this year has been eleven. I wouldn't go out a living balloons and I released him at the cemetery. And

that's what I do every year. Every year on his birthday, I go and take these balloons and I release those balloons and I celebrate, you know, I go buy some cake or something like that if I feel like it. I used to get toys and donate them to two kids and stuff like that, you know, things that I think that he might like. Even around Christmas time, I'll buy, you know, toys and stuff like that to donate the kids, you know, just because that's what I want to celebrate him,

and I talk about him. I talking about him to the girls like they know. I was literally about to ask that if you have opened up and shared this experience with your with your kids, yeah, of course they don't understand it. Of course. Of course a two year old and eight year old, I mean eight months old have no clue. But my two year old is starting she's starting to kind of like, oh, my brother, Like she's starting to understand it now more so than anything.

So wow, I ain't gonna lie girl. My eyes haven't been a little bit watery listening listening to this, Um. And before we wrap up, you are an advocate again. UM, almost a miracle after going through what you've experienced to now have two healthy babies and to be so strong to share this story with everyone. You do have a podcast and you're opening it up about it on there

as well. But I want you to kind of leave us off with something for anyone that may have experienced a miscarriage recently or or even in the past and still doesn't seem to have made it through to want to try again. What advice would you give to those women? I just say, hold on, if you can find that little mustard seed of faith. Get one, Like, if you can find a mustard seed somewhere, put in a little zip lock bag, put it somewhere that you know, like

I used to keep one in my wallet. Wait and wait, wait an actual mustar and see yes, okay, wait wait explain what is this? What? So a lot of times I say like, as long as you have like a mustard seed of faith, that's all that you need. A mustard seed. Literally you can pinch your fingers as close as you can get together without them touching, and that's

how big it is. And I literally would keep that with me at all times because that was a little bit of faith that I used to keep and hold on to of me ever having kids again, literally go look up a mustard seed and see how big it is. And you will be like, what the what the what are you talking about? Seriously, I'm so serious. I literally something.

My mother actually gave me a mustard seed and put it in a little zip lock bag and I used to keep it in my wallet, and I kept it in my wallet for years, years until I had my kids. And you said, this is all the amount of faith I need to keep pushing to know that one day, one day, It's gonna happen for me one day. And it was literally the day that I literally I fed up, and I said and I literally was in the car for a week talking to guys saying, hey man, what's

going on? When is this gonna happen? Let alone? I was already pregnant, like literally the following week. I found out I was pregnant the following week. So I'm usually not like a faith based person or anything like that, but when I get fed up, I get to talking. And when I talked that time, and then I found out literally the monday, after I had been doing it for a week, I found out I was pregnant. I

was already pregnant. Wow, So that little mustard seed is usually what I tell people, like, as long as you have even just that much, that's all you need. And and so you have two healthy babies. Now, are you planning on having any more? No? Okay, you're like, no, got mine now, you know. And it's only because like the way that the one that Georgia works, because of this whole abortion thing that they were going on. At one point, I was like nope, and then I had

to with my first one. I had, you know, a lot of complications, like I had to have an emergency C section with my first one and to plan c section with the second one. So I was like, I don't want to keep having to go through this, and I'm thinking like complications could keep coming. My body has gone through a lot enough, more than enough, So no

to and done. That's fine, Lindsay. I want to just thank you, UM for not only opening up and and sharing your story with my new audience, UM, but just having the courage to share your story, just because I know so many people when when things happen, specifically with us as women and our human bodies, there's so much that we know but that we still don't know about, and there's a lot of shame that is held in us when we see that we're not able to be the super women that we want to be in our mind.

So I want to thank you for sharing this because everything is not perfect. We don't have all the answers to everything, and I'm sure that your story will make somebody realize that they can have the mustard seed bit of faith to keep pushing and keep trying. And yeah, I just I just again, I just want to thank you because this this is good. Thank you, thank you

so much. And um uh. Also I do want to get into UM letting our audience know that we may also be having the conversation later down the line of postpartum depression UM, which is something that most women definitely experience after giving birth. And so I do want to have this conversation with you as well. And so guys, you guys can listen to Lindsay speak on that in an upcoming episode. Lindsay, once again, I want to thank

you so very much for joining us than they. What I hope comes from this episode is a little light at the end of the tunnel for anyone hoping or continuing to try to get pregnant after going through such a traumatic experience. UM. After every episode, just to enlighten my listeners just a little bit more, I like to share a little bit of stats. So about ten fifteen and a hundred pregnancies will end in in miscarriage. That comes from March of Dimes. And it's also just a

status to let you know that you're not alone. UM. Miscarriage in the second trimester, which is between thirteen and nineteen weeks, happens to also about one to five in every one hundred pregnancies, and about fifty percent of miscarriages are associated with extra or missing chromosomes. So just be sure that it if you're trying to get pregnant, you're going to the doctor, You're getting all of the right tests UM that needs to be taken. And also just

be there for for your friends. UM. Women do go through a lot. And Lindsay is actually a friend of mine dating back to high school. We went to prom together and to know that in our adult years she went through such a traumatic experience, UM, it was a lot for me to listen to. UM. You know, we've both been living our lives since graduating high school, and I know that she's been an advocate um for for this issue amongst women, and so to to hear that

she experienced this UM was just a lot. So please just be there for your friends. UM. And again, guys, I want to thank you guys for tuning in. Don't forget to subscribe, rate share with your friends again. This is the periods. This podcast once again brought to you by the official box owner. This is your host, Mandy B and I am dining out until next time.