Ep20: Dating with Herpes Feat Ella Dawson

there or you're visiting. And this actually works out well for me because bit before I went there on a more day weekend, I was trying to get my we've done feel like that's the one thing that we would recruit for. Seriously well, visiting Vegas for Mayweather versus McGregor fight and need somewhere to get your face beat. Want to know which club or pool will be the hot spot? Or do you want to support the large number of

black female entrepreneurs, talent and professionals in Sin City. Visit Black Women in Las Vegas dot com and follow them on Instagram and Facebook at black Women in Las Vegas, Black Women in Las Vegas because we meta um and that is my friend. Yeah, that is a close friend

of mine. And she's setting up to where when black professionals black women come to law spagas they kind of have somewhere to go kind of somewhere to its popular like city, but you wouldn't think like maybe trip now like more a weekend and all these other weekends, right And like I said, I want to needed my hair and done, so shut up, I went there to turn up anyways, as welcome to yet another episode of horrible decisions. I'm your girl, Mandy B and I'm weazy and we

have get that all the time. Really, yes, umbrella, Well just like me a man due why do I still get that from my name? Really girl? Like like we're in the second grade. They're very original, not original. Well, guys, um, we're back. I guess we'll update a little bit. So Weezy is just getting back from goddamn Europe yet again. Um with loverboy, do you want to briefly update our listeners on how that trip went? Was it better than Italy? Like how was it? So? To me? It was way

but in Italy. So we were broth on a vacation in Italy, and I feel like maybe because we were just getting to know each other that time, I was doing just too much, you know. I was like I even caught myself posing at one point when I was waiting to the bathroom. And now I went to where he's from, and you know, kind of just checked out, like friends. Family introduced me to the place, and it was just so much better because I was like way more chill. Um. So funny little story. I'm allergic to

eggs and he used a a restaurant. Um, and I'm just so embarrassed about this story. I'm sorry, I'm getting shy. So I'm allergy to eggs and all he wanted to do was make sure that I wouldn't eat eggs. So he had the chef because I've never had a cupcake make me cupcakes, specially without eggs. And he was super excited. We were talking about it like a week and a half. He's like, oh my god, they're gonna be great cupcakes. I'm like, oh my god, everything's new with you antal

and cupcakes. So we get to the restaurant. I'm super excited and it's really nice and uh, you know, we're sitting down some family and his friends and um, he's saying it over again. I can hear him saying the word in his language, like no fucking egg. So there's bread on the table and it's French. Bread, which generally doesn't have eggs. So I'm having a bite a bit and when I tell you, I had one bite and I could feel my throat and I'm looking at him

and I'm like, um, is there egg in my martini? Do? Is there any egg wash? She's like, no, I told you I made the recipe. There's no egg in this. There's no egg in this. It's in your I don't know if he said this in my head or what. I'm like, I'll be right back. I'm gonna go to the bathroom. I'm trying to walk very daintily to the bathroom and next you can, I get in there. Like it's like, so I come back, fucking face flush. I sit back down and I'm like, maybe it's my nerves, right,

So I'm looking at again. I'm like, you know what, I actually had a dream then had eggs, um, you know, before I got here, And I'm just gonna be just kind of wondering, like do you think there's a No, there's no egg. So finally he goes finds out that they put egg wash on the bread to make it shiny. I'm like, dude, I need to go because right I'm like literally gonnahip my pants and I don't want to tell him, and he's like, you want to go with you? I don't want to be sick. I'm like, no, no,

don't go, no, ship, don't go. So in his apartment is like two minutes away, right, he can to be the keys you have. I'm like, I don't even know if I have my jacket. Bro. I'm walking down the street all right. People are staring at me. It's like, um, it's more like up north, like Baltic. So it's like nine at night and it's still right outside. Dude, I'm throwing up in the corner. We can't even make it

to the apartment. People are looking at me like what the funk happened through this beach And I'm just like I'm not drunk. I'm just sick with eggs. Bro. Oh my god. So then he's like texting me like crazy, I'm so sorry. You want me to come back now? This fucking hey there, dude, I was so scared. I didn't know when the apartment would smell. I do what bomb?

It smells like? So now because it's his brand new apartment, he just moved into his apartment and you know this is someone I'm data and I wanted to be nice and I'm embarrassed. I'm literally throwing up with a fucking paper towel in my hand is scrubbing down. Oh god. It was really bad. But it came home with cupcakes and ain't the funk out of my pussy. So I was like, this is a really good sorry head and cupcakes. I'll take that. That's a great way to end the night.

But it was awesome. It was just hanging out a massages casino and we both love to gamble. Um. We made some great porns. Let me just shake this one clip now. We don't want to see your porn every time. It's like fifth Element but like slut anyway, that's my anal plug in the corner and a little spit coming down from his mouth. But it was fun, and I bought a tripod for us. You know. I was like, babe, you know, I'm always like making videos for you. Finally

we can just we can have some good ship. We can, you know, and we did. They're like five minute long videos. Normally their thirty seconds because the other person wants to let go so they can fuck. So I was really excited. This is awesome. I'm on the opposite end of the spectrum right now. I do want to let you listeners know that you guys would not be joining me on my journey of abstinence. Um, I've had just too much mediocre.

When we first started well and I was I went a month without Dick and everyone was like, you just hear that abstinence. I went to Munk without Dick and everyone was like, you're so born, you need dick, weezy as all these stories, when are you going to have one? And then I literally just went through a nice little set where I was like, I've been getting some dick, but it's been very just mediocre and except which we're on every six week thing right now, and I just

can't deal with it. He's never in town, like, oh so stressful. So I'm to the point now where even though I do have all these dicks in my phone that are available, I don't enjoy being around any of them. It's one of those where their dicks to come over, but I don't want the dicks to talk. Just pull out the dick, put it in and go. And I don't want those relationships anymore. So I'm about to be absinent until I can find someone who actually but I feel like because the best part of my was watching

Cheetos and watching a movie and eating cheetos together. That's what I'm saying, like and so away and Cheetos. The fuck you know, embarrassing this is We're gonna literally get people are gonna click off the show now. Well that's whe I'm Matt. Guys, abstinence. I'll let you guys know when I have sex again. Count month counts because if I like the guy, are you being abstinent? Well I abstinence sounds a lot more convincing. Anyways, guys are welcome me on my journey. This is our guest. So, um,

I guess she's our segue into ushering herpies. I guess that's how she said she wanted to really like that was well kind of not really herpes consultant. Are we go on things? So let our listeners know. First of all, I know how I'll see Mark because I talked to you, Thank you, But all of our listeners have not talked to you yet. Can you let our listeners know who you are what you do just a little bit? Yeah? Sure.

So my name's Ella. I am uh, Internet famous for having herpies, I guess is really the bluntest way to put that. Um, I'd always been a sex writer. I wrote erotica and call I'd always been fascinated by sexual health in general. And then shockingly contracted an STD in college and had like a lovely little mini meltdown of like maybe all the conservatives are right and like I shouldn't be having sex lasted like five minutes, and and I realized, like, herpes is so ridiculously common and there's

this huge inflated stigma about it. And so I wrote one article for Women's Health and it went insanely viral on the Internet, was picked up by Washington Post and Yahoo News and like Huffington Post and all these places and BuzzFeed and everything. So overnight I went from like maybe I should write about herpes and how common it is, and then it was like, funk. If you google me, Google's like, did you mean ellados? It's done like overnight

face of Herpes? Did you ever read it? At one point when I got that pig, oh sure, because it's when you become viral like that. It is terrifying because it's so much attention at once and even even if none of it is negative, and most of it was super super positive at the beginning, like there were so many people messaging me on Facebook and like finding my email and sending me their stories and it was like I had unlocked something and suddenly there was an avalanche

of people being like me too, and that's petrifying. And I was twenty two, like I was a baby, Like it was a lot. So well, yeah, explain how old are you now? I am twenty five now, so I'm still a baby. But I was even more of a baby. And so that was like two years ago. That was April, um, two thousand, I don't know what year it is, two

thousand fifteen. Were you because Mandy mentioned, oh my god, she's only twenty three when we were watching your Ted talks, you were twenty three then, so I yeah, I gave my my Ted X talk, um like a month before my birthday. Okay, so yeah, um, so that was last April. I'm a may baby. It was so great, thank you. Yeah, absolutely, And I told her, I was like, bro, it's only sixteen minutes. If you don't find the time to watch this ship before she comes on the show, Like I'm

not going to have you on with her. Um, So I want you to explain because I read the article and um again with the ted talks, you say that harpies is associated with people who are dirty or promiscuous or people who have a ton of sex. But you definitely got it, like two or three strains of it. Who knows. So what was your sex life like when you found out you called it? And can you share the story of when you called it, like where you were in your life, what you were doing sexually. Sure,

so I was a big old Silton college. I had a ton of fun. I was super into casual sex, not excessively, but like more than a girl is supposed to Because were you saying this? And I was, Yeah, I had always used condoms. I had never had unprotected sex at all. Yeah, And I was kind of like the asshole in my friend group who like gave out condoms and work for planned parenthood and would like yell

at you. Yeah. And I remember like a few years before I got diagnosed, a friend came to me and was like, I really prefer having sex dot condoms, and I like dreamed him a new one, being like, you're going to get herpies and then a few years later I was like, so, I'm really sorry that I was such a dick, but anyway, I know I was super safe, but I was having a lot of casual sex and I wound up meeting somebody following super hard like we're

spending every day together and we were using protection. Um, But three weeks in our relationship, I had an outbreak of genital herpies and I was very surprised. Um, and he immediately like he had been super sweet and charismatic and wonderful, and immediately it was like Jacqueline hide of like I knew I shouldn't have dated somebody like you, like this is all your faults from him. Well, yeah, it's hard to prove, but I found out after the fact that he was very unfaithful to other girlfriends and

just was like not a great character. And I wouldn't be surprised, But at the time I was like, Okay, I'm the sex writer. I must have been carrying this, like I'm so sorry I gave this to you, Like I just took the sex. I well, I was writing about sex like that was a huge part of my life. And I was like, okay, I must have had this. I didn't. I didn't even think that he might have given it to me. So it was a whole like

who done it? Kind of dramatic. Also want to point out I just love that, UM, just a backcheck, we had a sex worker and escort on our last show who like never gave oral sex without a condom. You were writing about sex and sleeping with a bunch of people and always use condoms, And there's always a stigma that promiscuous women are open free women are just like super unsafe and all over the place. Like, I just

love that you're like non gond condom. Yeah. I had never had sex without a condom UM for years and years and years, and then I got diagnosed, and then I got an I U D and I started I was in like a serious, um committed relationship with somebody and we just stopped using condoms. And that was so this was well after I got diagnosed, and it was something that we talked about. How did you break it to him like that you had it and what was

his reaction? My the later boyfriend or who which any boyfriend really any boyfriend that you've had, UM, you were diagnosed and you're still not you have a normal dating life. You're you've had relationships clearly more than one um and they're okay with having sex with you. So how do you open up to somebody and say, listen, this is what I have and how do they receive it? Yeah, So the good thing about being internet famous for having her pies is very rarely on a date and they

don't already know. Like I'm even now on Tinder, and it'll get to the point like where we're chatting and then like before we actually meet up for drinks, he'll be like, just want to let you know, like I googled you and I think what you do is great. It's already like taken care of and um, I have a I have a first date tomorrow with somebody who

um I met on tender. Yeah. It really fun hopefully but my cheerleader, but but I I was really nervous about breaking the news because of all this usher stuff. It's like it's I've been feeling more down on myself

for it and the way that about it was. I was like, so I'm going on this podcast, I'm gonna talked about about herpies and all this, and he's like, why are you, like the consultanty're bringing on And I was like, well, I have it, and I write about it, and I gave a tedex talk about it, and he like you could see like the read receipt came up. And then a few minutes later he's like, that's really interesting, is that? Like how does that impact your dating life?

And I was like, well, like condoms, I guess, but otherwise that's actually I was like, it's usually a conversation I have like this one at the beginning of relationship, and then it becomes irrelevant when somebody realizes that two and three people have the strain that I have and used like, oh yeah, and I think it's like the other strains right altogether. Yeah, I super high. When I got tested, it just says normal. Um and then like the little less THN symbol. Yeah, so everyone has a

strain in them. Um. And that's why, UM, I do want to let you guys know that that that are listening that Ella is not an m D. So we're not going to be able to provide medical advice for you. However, get on Google look it up. Um. That's what she did. Um. She actually says, you know, and this is what I wanted to bring up in your TED talk and I'd

love to bring it um to the show. Is the misconceptions you named three, yes, and I wanted to talk about those because as you were saying them, I was like, yes, bitch, yes, bitch yes, which clearly you won't watch the videos. I didn't look you up. Yeah, so can we list those again for the followers? Like I know, one was just the education of it, blah blah blah, like what we received in school, that was where the stigmas come from.

Yet sure, yeah, so we can start with that with school, Like most of us, I received aption it's only sex education, just don't have sex. If you have sex, you're gonna die and get pregnant exactly. And even if you did get more comprehensive sex, like sure you might have been taught how to put a condom on a banana, but you really weren't given great information about STDs. It was just like very scary photos and like misinformation and really scary ship and it was google it. Now it's like

like it's not a fun Google. Don't do Google. Just don't do that to yourself. That's just going to drive you insane. But no, so I when we have that terrible sex said, we're not taught anything about if you do get it, or here's how to talk to your partner about it, or here's how to get tested. It's just like you better not fucking get an STD. That's it. That's because the end of your life's end of your life.

And so when you do get diagnosed, if you get diagnosed, or if your partner does, or if someone discloses to you, your brain just goes that panic space of like I'm gonna die, Like this is it. This is the end of my life. No one's ever going to touch me again, and you're not giving any information about how common it is, how to actually protect yourself like condoms, yes, dental damns, things like that when you're having oral sex, like being smart about that. Oral sex is one of the biggest

ways that Herbie's is transmitted. Like it's it's something to think about. And there's just so much misinformation coming from sex said, which is not sex said, it's abstinence. It's like it's not helpful. So that's number one. UM, And yeah, I hate absence education. I will go off on that forever. Really feeding my activists, right, now I get kissed. I actually nearly was suspended for my high school for giving

out condoms in my abstinence. Are you kidding? Yeah, because I was like, I'm a planned parenthood rep and according to the House of Representatives, this this education leads to like x y z rates of teen pregnancy. And I started giving out condoms and the teacher was just like looking. It was like a volleyball coach being like, you need to stop, or I will send you to the headmaster's office. It was a whole thing, like I am the head

master and that's why. And so I like took all the condoms back and I was like my my lockers in the theater way, it's help yourself. And within a few weeks, like all of the bros at my school knew me because they would come and be like, do you have still of those condoms? So people are scared to like go and then think about small town. They don't want to go to CBS and get caught up. Yeah. I just actually, so I'm having this weird sinus thing going on with my ears. Well this is it was

so funny. So I go to pick up my prescription because I have like really bad sinus with my ear my throat and at this point I'm looking at throat things. There's this new gun and reastrained. I'm just like, oh, shouot, I did just swallow last week. I'm scared. So I go to the damn doctor to make sure everything's okay, pissing a cup, you know, all that stuff. Um, And so I get a prescription, an antibiotic from my ear. And when I go, it's a ten dollar fucking minimum

on the debit card. Bitch, I got Medici, my right, So my my prescription only a dollar. So I'm like, ship, what am I gonna get? I said, you know what, go ahead and give me a pack of condoms. The guy at the store was so happy. He said, come here, come here, I give you the big pack he gives me. You know, he's like, I even give you discount. He was like, I gotta get rid of these ships. Nobody buys condoms. Oh my god. And he's like, listen, here's

my card. I'll deliver your prescription. Hell, I'll deliver condoms. He said no, he was no, but he was really nice. He was like, yo, like they get expired, and you know, he pays for its inventory. There's an expiration date on them. So he's like, I'll give you the big pack he gave me, Like the big pack he took off almost three dollars, So I have now I have now a ten pack of condoms um which mind you made me get because of course, well, of course that night I

have sex. So I go to pull them out. I got the kind that Candy suggested, the thinner Trojan, so I go to pull that out. The nigga is like, what do you have magnums? I actually did in my purse from another time. So now he's like, wait, you even had options of condoms. So I'm just like, but it's so freny that you say that, because yeah, like he literally was like, people don't buy condoms, and you

just said people are shamed by condoms at CVS. It's like a stigma, Like how how girls feel when they go to buy tampons for the first time because they're bleeding. I think my old groommate ordered them on Amazon. It's so crazy. So okay, so so you handed those out so sex at abstinence, bro, it's bullshit. You can still apparently get herpes even with a condom on which a lot of people don't know. It's the skin to skin contact.

It's not fluid, so if you're if you're snuggling and if but is is like it's called asymptomatic viral shedding, which is a horrible term, but it means it's it's not that common, but there or it is. I heard you mentioned the wrestling man. Yeah, it's uh, well wrestling is a whole other thing. But you can you can transmit herpies if you're not having an outbreak, like it's it's something percent of the time you can um and that that rate goes down the longer that you've had herpies.

And for me, like I my last outbreak was two years ago. Like I'm not really that concerned about giving somebody herpies. But yeah, you can get it from like vigorous rubbing if you want to. Years ago, you said your outbreak last outbreak was two years ago? Here night, What is the frequency of an outbreak? So are you dormant now? What what would or or it's just really your body really right, it's your body. Yeah. For me, like I had my first outbreak three weeks after getting it.

I had a really bad immune system. I'm not the healthiest personage. The first one was your only one. So I had my second one, Um, so I've had too And my second one was two years after that and I was working, um a really crazy prints in a different time zone and my body was just like where are you? Like, what is going on? This is so stressful and I had an outbreak because of stress in

my body. The body just freaked out. And I probably won't have another one, honestly, because it's I have HSV one, which is um usually associated with oral herpies, but you can have a genitally, but it tends to just be a bit milder and as a result, I'm probably not likely to have another one anytime soon unless there's like a body trigger. But yeah, it's pretty chill for me. I got lucky. I got like the lazy strain of herpies.

So it's ironic, like it does not impact my life except that it's now like my internet reputation and so your outbreak is on your mouth or is it? It's just it's just it's genital, okay, And so HSB one can be both because I assumed that HSB one just so that's what people think. But what it has to do is it. It has to do with where it's

hosted in your body, like where your spine. It is an HSB one I believe is towards the top of towards the top of your body, and it's usually associated with oral herpes and you get cold stres and things like that, but you can have either strain in either place. I think oral HSP two is very very rare, but yeah, you can have HSP one genitally. And it's actually on the rise among women, especially in college, because of all the oral sex that they're having, which like the ladies like, yes,

but make sure your partners not having a could store. Um. Yeah, okay, that's good. And so I also didn't know that you could get it when someone wasn't having an outbreak. Yes, um, because Mandy's got a friend who was saying she doesn't, so I have to. I have two friends. Um, and we've openly talked about it. Um. And that was my first question, is like, so do you tell people that you have sex with because at the same time, they're both girls that condoms aren't fun like they it doesn't

feel right. I don't like hat feels and I'm just like bro but you know, you have herpies and both of them do not tell their partners, and so it's just like I know, and it's just like, but they both date black men. And clearly you've been reading these Ussher comments and so I want to get into that

as well. Um, just how maybe it may be more accepted in what I don't want to say, white culture, Like I don't want to make this a race thing, but for sure we are we are a lot more yeah, and we are a lot more uneducated and ignorant when it comes to these type of things, especially the things we say and how hurtful the ignorance. Um. So I guess I can bring it up because I want to bring this into how you, you know, go through dat feeling. I don't know if you do the words shaming or

what did you say? And so I want to I want to ask you why is that? Because you've been this advocate for it, you've gotten so much positive feedback. Now the Usher thing comes out and for you guys who don't know, if you've been sleeping under a rock, Um, it just came out that Usher paid a woman one point one million dollars um because she contracted her pies from him, he's been positive. There's court docks showing that he was tested positive in two thousand nine, so he's

known that. There's now been a second female that, since this information has come out, has now sued him and is asking for twenty million dollars because she just went and got testing. Oh, I'm taking her pies for a million. I don't give a funk, Um, but she's she's suing out of here, y'all. Y'all really not gonna have her pies for a million dollars anyway. Um, So now there's someone else suing Um saying, Hey, I slept with Usher.

I want twenty million because I just got tested positive. However, I've had the conversation with friends and just just like you said, you can't, especially if you're not tested for it. Um. And the doctor that came on, Dr Kim, who you guys love, she said that they're not really testing for

it unless you maybe get a PAP smear. And I believe it was your ted talk you said you've heard it was expensive or we're testing a lot of doctors won't test you for her pies even if you ask, because they think that if you have it and you're asymptomatic, you're better off not knowing that you have it because it is so powerful. And like a lot of people suffer from mental health issues after they get diagnosed because it's so devastating the news, because the stigma is so bad.

So there are a lot of doctors who are like, hey, it's not going to infect your it's not going to Freudian affect your life. Um, and if you're not having symptoms, like clearly you're not, you're not feeling anything negative, you don't need to be on medication for that. We're just not going to test you. Like if you have an outbreak, Common will give you a cream, but rather than that, you don't need to know. Yeah, and and the other

thing is that the testing itself makes no sense. And because it's there are a bunch of different ways to get tested. You can get a culture taken from a culture which is pretty resiable testing. It was just like it might just be like a weird skin thing that they can take a culture from or whatever it is. But some mine didn't happen. My mind was just like regular CD testing And then she swabbed and you were

getting a papum. That's what Dr Kim said that during your path they will test you because it's a yearly um. But again they might be able to get it from from a swab. I'm not entirely sure, but I do know that culture testing tends to be a bit more reliable. But if you're getting like a blood test, it's testing how many like how prevalent of the page virus is in your body, and yeah, and the percentage. This is where I'm a little confused because I don't have a

science brain. But they give you like a numerical score, and it gives they give you like a window of like if you're below this amount, like you're probably negative, and if you're above this amount, you're probably positive. And if you're in between, like, we don't even know what to tell you. And I don't test positive for herpes on those I come in and like the neutral zone.

They're like, we don't know. I had a doctor try to tell me I didn't have her bees and I was like, bro, that ship has sailed like and he was right, yeah, I was like, I have lived it, it's google to worry about it. But but like and he himself was like insisting, no, you probably don't have it because he thought I was better off thinking I didn't have it even if I did, because the stigma is so bad and the test is zone reliable. So

I don't know. I like, I've heard a lot of doctors tell me different reasons for why they don't test. I've also had a lot of friends be like, yeah, I demanded a test and they still said no. Yeah. And I also want to let the listeners note, like you said um, Like even Dr Kemp said, so it's through a paps, a pap blood or um, the scalpel whatever would you say, scalpel, so when you're going And I do want to let let our listeners know when you're going in and you're pissing in a cup that's

checking you for clamydia, like not herpies. So even though that test could come back clean and negative, there's still a possibility if you do not ask or request for our herpes test. So going back to the Usher thing, because lady finds out that she's positive um, and because she's slept with Usher, apparently he had to be the one to give it to her. That's where I'm like,

I don't believe you. If she had the case. I So the frustrating thing is that in certain states, like it is technically illegal to um have sex with someone and know your status and not tell them that. I thought that was just with HIV. It is, but it it does. I think it does apply to other STDs when they are like lifelong, like herpes isn't curable. Yeah, it's primarily the HIV criminalization laws, which I think are trash and not effective and just add to stigma. And

I have a lot of feelings about that. But so she may have a case. But at the same time, like it is so hard to prove, how like when you got give it to you because it kind of just been sitting in your body, right, Yeah, And a lot of people get it as kids, is the thing, and like never know about it, never get tested, never show symptoms because it's cold stores, like you get it from a family member who kisses you on the mount.

And so my sister, so growing up, my sister, um actually like are you about to well no, every like whatever, But she got cold swords. I have friends get yea, and when you call them cold swords, it's not bad. But there her beest the cold sor absolutely and I have friends that get cold swords. And it's like, if I didn't have genital herpes and I had a cold stort and you gave someone a head, you can give them. Absolutely.

Wait no, if you have genital herpes and you give someone head, you can't transmit because you don't have it. But if you have it in your mouth, if you have it early. I've never had genital herpes. I've never had it. I've just had a cold story because I have I've had a could sture in my lifetime. Absolutely, so you probably have h one. If y'all want to see the look at her face. Well, anyways, I want to get back to the story because my sister, well, my sis, it will see you. Oh my god, yes,

who's here? Oh my god? Well my sister has to join the club with her? Oh my god. Wait wait wait, we're not going to right the Secret Society Welcome. I'm totally even tested and I didn't get I mean it didn't come back. I mean this thing is like you might not test positive for when you're you might not be at any risk of transmitting. Since I've been a teenager, well,

I don't know. Well, my sister used to get them really bad growing up to like where she would miss school because she'd have one, and then it would spread and we literally and when you're young, especially because your immune system is different, so it would literally we would be in the house and it would be like, okay, girl, here's your cup, your spoon, and your fork for the week.

Don't touch anything else because it's just been like the But even my other friend we were just gonna and she had one and she was trying to I was like, girl, there's a breather in the in the guy like, I don't know what you like, get it off. It's but and and so it's crazy because something else you meant. Just so you see how easy it was to talk about it as a cold store as opposed to her being it's so crazy because you open your ted, talk

like who in here has allergies? And I absolutely love the eggs, And then she goes to say who when here has herpes? And there's not one literally literally not one hand raised And if they know what you're going to talk about, the audience know, which was great. They weren't. Nobody introduced me. I just like rolled on up on the stage. It was like a like a college organized event, so they were great, but they didn't There was not

a lot of stagecraft. So I was gonna say, I noticed that there were things that you said, we're funny, and they didn't laugh till a little bit after. I could tell it's because they were like, holy sh it, oh my god. It was also like ten am on a Saturday, so everyone in that room was hungover. It was kind of so that might have been part of it, but no, people were genuinely they enjoyed. But I noticed that I don't know if I was teching, there was tension. Yeah,

holy sh it. So wow, do you want to talk? So I don't even know if I can right now. That text a few people right now, so sorry, So I do want to ask you, and again bringing back to the usher thing, you've been reading the comments, you've been feeling iky Clearly people are shaming the ship out of him and saying life is ruined now like lumping it in with R. Kelly, which is pissing me off. So like R. Kelly is a sex colt, not sure as herpies, and I'm like those two are not which

one would you rather do? Yeah? Yeah, it's literally been like would you rather have herpies than one point and I'm not gonna you weren't, but I did. I sent it in my group chat with my home girls, so I said, you gotta pick one. So I said, hey, would you rather have herpies with one point one million dollars?

Or would you rather being a sex cult where you can't talk to any of your friends or family or be would you rather be pregnant and being cheated on by someone who's shorter than you because apparently Kevin Hart was cheating on his life. Rather definitely not go with because you can never be And I feel like herpes. Apparently you're gonna ignore it. I can ignore that real nice and Fiji, apparently you're still getting freaking tender dates. So oh so so, And this is what I want

our listeners to know. If, for whatever reason, you do get tested and you have this um positive result, don't talk Ella like I did to find her and ask her all these questions, but do a Google search and do like psychologically you will do your dude, your due diligence to to inform yourself on the things, just the

same way that that you did. And I wanted to ask you of all the comments that you've seen, um, because I'm you know, it's making you feeling what has been the worst part of what people normally say about her pies, Like, what is something that has stood out to you as far as oh my god, people still

really think like this, Oh man. So I should preface this by saying, like, I get a lot of harassment online because I write a lot about feminism as well as sexual health, and like the men's rights activists and the all right, like they love me because it's a great example of like these feminists be crazy, they're preaching. So I see a lot of like horrific stuff on the daily, um, but just in terms of the Usher stuff like there right, yeah, I'm sure you guys have everywhere.

It's like all sorts of horrible online too, horrible, horrible, It's it's scarring. So I've like definitely read my fair share of like really horrific things people say about herpes. But even in the context, even in the context of the Usher thing, like because he's a celebrity and all of the other many things that make it okay to make fun of Usher, Like even publications I respect have been just like leaning hard into this story because it's so salacious and like Vice ran a story that was like,

would you have sex with Usher and get herpes? For a million dollars? And they interviewed people on the street and they found like eight people and it was just like Vice, you should know better, like you've interfered about this. Yeah, and my favorite powers. All the people were like, funk, no, I wouldn't do that, And it's like, statistically, you already have it. All of you just said no to a million dollars and having sex with Usher, which like I

would probably do anyway. Guys, you know what's funny. I was having that conversation with myself like that, I just wouldn't have said it out loud, and I was like, I'm not gonna lie, like just kind of feel like why I feel like there's quite a few so listeners if you're listening, well, clearly you're listening at this point. If you're sitting there, think of your celebrity crush and I just think to yourself, would you have sex with him? Knowing that they have And the thing is, all of

your favorite celebrities have herpies. All of them, like I have done my research, like all of them have herpes. Britney Spears has herpies. Derek Jeter has herpies. Derek Jeter is rumored who have given it to like everyone like, which is probably why he used to give them gifts. He used to do gift baskets to the girls, but he literally used to everyone who dates him used to get a gift basket. Probably trucks in there, like yeah, I know, like all of your favorite celebrities have herpes,

even like sweet Robin Williams had herpies like everyone. Billie Idol has herpies like they all do. And the thing is like if you think about it that way, like okay, anyway, So like the moment I learned about that, I started be like, oh, this is kind of ridiculous. And the other thing like I've had, I've had like hot coworkers or like hot classmates, these people who have been like,

oh my god, this person is so gorgeous. I wish they would talk to me, And they've asked me out for lunch after watching my talk and I've been like, oh, I finally have my chance with this, and they're always like, so I've heard he's I've never told anyone but you, And this is mind blowing because I'm like, you are like the most fucable person I know, so much shame and self doubt and I'm like, what is fucking wrong

with you? But it's literally, it's literally what what I think goes on with the ignorance that I said in not community, people caring, whatever reaction, I was like, I can't do this. I had one person turned me down, but he said that he had just gotten over chlamydia and he was like, I can't do it again. The only really he was still probably it's just like even not even it's just the fear, like I I can't go. The thing is like they have probably been people who

have been interested in me and changed their lines. Like I'm sure there's been people who have been like Ella's really gorgeous or I think she's really smart. But I can't do that. But I like, to the point where I've actually approached someone, I've never actually been turned down because they've already decided in their brain. My favorite story, and I tell this in in my talk, but the

longer version is kind of more fun. I was at a party my senior year, like six months after getting diagnosed, like freshly single, like feeling really good about myself, but also super nervous. And this really cute guy was flirting with me at a party, super gorgeous, and this like case of norovirus, like this super fluid gone around campus and he asked me if if he if I wanted the rest of behind a kid, and I was like, you don't have norovirus, do you? Right? Because everybody was

puking in trash cans. He was like no, and I also don't have herpes, and it just looked at him and I was like, I was like, do I say something like do you I laugh? Do I walk away? Like clearly the problem? And I was just like, that's like not that funny because I have it and it's really common. And he just looked at me and like you could see on his face like you just blew it with this amazing girl, and that moment of him being like, wow, I'm such a dick, and he immediately,

to his credit, he immediately immediately apologized. And I saw later him like googling herpies transmission statistics like him doing it. Yeah, we had sex that weekend and then you almost a year. Yeah. I loved that when I heard that. That is awesome. Yeah, And there was a point, like a few months into our relationship where he was like, look, I'm just going to assume that I have it. I don't really care, like it doesn't bother me, Like I love you, don't

worry about it. Because we had had a conversation where I was like, I'm really nervous that if I do transmit you you're going to hate me, and he was like, how the hell could I do that? You're like, the love of my life, You're amazing. It's not a thing. If it happens, it happens, And it's really because everyone's body is different, and you do say that all the time,

but even you it's the outbreak. Those pictures are discussing, but yet in three or four years you had to operate and they haven't been fun, Like I don't enjoy them. They are having herpies if you do have like an active strain. The first outbreak was held of painful. I'm not gonna like, I'm not gonna pretend it wasn't. It was like peeing glass. It was terrible. I hated it. And your your first outbreak sucks like that is how

it goes. And then it gets easier usually, and there's some people who have like more um, more severe cases, who have have outbreaks more often like some people. It isn't fun. I've gotten some criticism for like making herpes sound super chill like it's not. But the vast majority there constantly, exactly and compared to like other things that you can have wrong, other skin conditions, other health conditions, choose herpes over almost anything in the world. So I've

heard more. Yeah, I've had more severe like head colds, like sinus not just because I was like trying to read a little bit more. Um, So I'm twenty six and I'm just now getting gardenssil Apparently I can't find any doctor, I mean, in any old records that I've ever had it. Well, and I don't even know how you're allowed to get it, because I actually was yet well no, I was looking at you. It's something that you should have been given as a teenager, and you have up to twenty four to get it. No, I

just looked this up. So there is a vaccine, and it's so funny because well you can't. It's not covered by insurance anymore, that's what you mean. Not only well, no, not on it's not, but after a certain age after

it's not. Yeah. Well not only that, also apparently it's something in which doctors don't even suggest it should be given to us, like how we get our happy and so when I looked up this vaccine, so there is a vaccine that you can get when you're younger for h for HPV, which which I wanted to bring up

because I heard that it go ahead. So the thing about it is doctors stay away from recommending this vaccine as they do the Happy, the happy whatever, because they consider HPV to be sexually transmitted and it's something that's uncomfortable to talk about with children, or they don't feel like they write to be vaccinated for something because it's sexually transmitted, and so it's something that they don't like.

There's three rounds of shots. So um, that's it. Before I went to Cuba, I turned twenty six this year in March. Before I went to Cuba, thirty dollars. She's like, I'm just gonna let you know. I'm really sorry, but your next round is going to cost you three dollars called Dr Kim. I'm like, um, in Canada, So actually I'm going to Japan because it's every three months. So my next one, I'm going to buy it in Japan.

I'm just going to get the name of the vaccine, whatever it is and buy it there because you know, and Asian drugs are cheaper. But I'm put this ship right in my booty. So do you happen to know? You said HPV is not herpies, different different viruses, So

h s V is herpies. So this is herpie simplex virus harpies simply, so this HPV is preventing Well, I just read a few things about obviously men can't find out if they have HPV, so um, you know if and they hosted women and I believe a comedian Ali Wong said it's either the kind that's just dormant in your body or I can kill you and give you

her vocal cancer and something. Yeah, and that's and that's reports and that's what that's what Dr Kim said as well, like HPV can lead to cancers, um, but not herpes. Then no, wow, I don't know different things, okay, sports just HPV symptoms. Yeah, I didn't know that. Okay, that's interesting. Yeah, I feel like I just got schools and you're not a doctor. Yeah, I meant, well, this isn't this is my expertise. And again, well this goes to her googling

and taking initiative to to look up these things. What is what? I really fun? I don't want to know. All I want to do is have like a long conversation about Harry Potter on a date, like that's all I want to talk about. Did you see this coming out in October? I did see that. I have a lot of opinions, and I want to talk about that on a date instead of her being anything today. No, I mean it's he I mean that is like to me, I don't know if you if you don't mind explaining,

I know you work for them. Now, I saw it on your LinkedIn because we talked to if. I did wait, and then the funny thing is I thought we lost her for good because she didn't respond to my email the first day. So I go on Twitter and I'm like, hey, can all of y'all at and put her at? You didn't tell her to come on the podcast I did. She's like, can you please on do that? I said, oh my god, I'm so sorry, but she responded, so I was like, Okay, we're getting somewhere and shed and

literally I'm at work today. She was like, girl, did you check the email? And I was like, I literally was so happy because I definitely wanted to bring you on the show to talk about this, and and here you go bringing light to such a dim, dark topic I get. Honestly, I was you guys just diagnosed me. I'm scared as I'm also go online and just be like, just to give you guys a warning, this communal blunt um. Yeah, okay, So now I want to kind of get off this.

Oh why don't we do a listener question? Yeah, so I have. So we have homemail. Um, and this one I think is good because it kind of brings us back to not so horrsh ways, I guess, um, so it says warning, this is a long one. Forgive me, please keep me anonymous. Girl, you know we are. So. I just wanted to say that this podcast has really helped me confront a lot of insecurities regarding sexual desires

and relationships. I'm probably on the complete opposite end of the spectrum girl, we know, but I just wanted to know if you guys could give me some advice about navigating sex and dating is a twenty three year old virgin, So she's a virgin. Guys. It's kind of embarrassing sometimes, But I'm a late bloomer and just lost a lot of weight in the past few years. So I've avoided sexual relationships for my entire life simply because I was

uncomfortable in my own skin for so long. I'm super sex positive when it comes to supporting others, and I want to have fun and experience new things so badly, but it's hard to just jump in when you're still behind everyone else your age. I'm attracted to both men and women, and not to toot my own horn, but I could be sleeping several people who are still interested in me, even after finding out that I'm Hella inexperienced. If you guys were in my situation, what would you do?

How do I calm down enough to let somebody in? Literally my biggest my biggest firit is that I'll just be some funny story they tell or someone they'll they'll regret sleeping with later. By the way, you guys can read this on the show. Um, thank you again for being so open and honest about your lives. It's really

inspired me. To grow and learn about myself. I love that vergence of that because I just say, when I read this email, I was so confused because I was like, I don't know if you give the advice to someone to get it over with or to take your time. UM. So I actually wrote her UM because I felt like, you know, this was something who knew when we were going to read this on the show UM. And my advice to her was, first off, to make sure she was comfortable with herself and doing it because she wanted

to do it. I told her, don't feel like you have to have sex to validate yourself because everyone else wanted it, or because it's gonna make you feel special, because I'm not even gonna lie. If I could go back and tell my young self something, it would literally be that sex is not going to keep a man. It's not gonna make a guy like you more. It's not gonna make a guy stay, it's not gonna you having sex with him, isn' gonna make him like you,

like like you anymore than he already does. And so my advice to her was to make sure that when she goes and has sex, however nasty, she want to do it. It's probably gonna be terrible actually the first time, because you don't even know what it feels like. UM, But I told her to make sure she wanted to do it, and she wasn't doing it to play someone else. Do you have? You know, you were in college having fun and we've been having fun since we were freaking six team with fake I d S. So what would

what what advice would you give her? UM for someone you know, a virgin wanting to get out there, and

of course to be safe. Yeah, no, it's funny. I've had this conversation recently with a lot of my friends who are in their middle twenties and either like are really inexperienced or haven't had sex, or like I feel like they haven't as much sex as other people, Like I have had this conversation like five times in the last six So I feel like, first of all, you are not alone, Like I know everyone is constantly talking about sex, and it's sex is everywhere, and sex is

in the media, and it's like unavoidable. But you're not weird, you're not strange, Like you're not delayed, like this is this is just your life and you're living at how you choose to and you're doing what you want, and do not feel abnormal. Don't don't listen to that pressure, like you're fine, You're totally fine. I feel like, oh my god, I'm weird. Yeah, and with me, I didn't lose my virginity until I turned eighteen, and like I was in my high school, like I desperately wanted to

have a Yeah, I was like giving condoms out. I would like bring friends to CBS to buy. I was the person who bought everybody planned b like I was everybody's sex and up to the counter. Okay, yeah, I'd be like your money and I willing because I would volunteer to drive girls without a license to get abortions and for real, because dude, listen, I still go to plan parenthood to get control, just to put my money

back into the system. And even when I'm walking up if it's a Tuesday, because that's the day they do proportions, and so hope there's some women getting ready to come for me, and I'm like, hold on, bitch, even if I was, if you're gonna take care of my baby, oh and god forbid, you talked about a bit on welfare and let me just have this baby in the boy and then when this motherfucking asked go to jail because I haven't been around, Like I'm telling you, people

just judge so much. But when I was doing that in high school, people were like, it's because she's just because she's had abortions, blah blah blah blah. And it's just that same thing. It's like, you can't advocate for something if you're right, and that's what you're listening to. Horrible decisions are you're fucking kidding me. Mandy pisted on a guy I sucked you guys in one day and talked about how I went over there to dominate one

of though. Yeah, like we've definitely talked about everything, but I think I did two guys on one day. You just lied about that. When lover boy asked to I don't think he listened to that. He only listens like the first twenty minutes. I hate he stopped. You stopped listening when you were like, I have could tours, like I need to pause on this. That was a little mean. I'm sorry. I hate her. I take you back. He

came in all fucking nice, the Cinderella looking face. Jesus Ella, and I'm just you know, and like ship let me see. I'm trying to think do you have do you have one that you could read through really quick? Or now I did? Um? What about him? And I kind of want your input on relationships like this too. I sent it to Mandy. This girl wrote me on Snapchat and said, I love the show. I've been listening since day one, and I love what you guys have going on. So I have a quote unquote lover boy of my own

two not a boyfriend, somebody with mutual feelings. We care about each other, still finding our own way into something more serious, but for now it's open and we really like it. My question is do you share the dates you go on? Do you enjoy it? Does he ever get jealous of the women? Do you feel like you have to include him? I feel like the guy I'm dating only wants to see it if he's if he's included in it, like me dating a girl without him?

Is you know? I want to have an example of how this works, But I'm really curious to know the other side. Can you ask him does he actually like you dating? Or does he put up with it so he could do his thing too? That's what she asked me. So I sent him the question you want me back? And he said, this is loverboy. That answered the question for the readers. So yeah, I don't get jealous when you're with other girls because that's what you like to

do and I want you to enjoy it. I don't have to join in, but I like to know when you do it and how it went. Makes me feel good to know, like, you know, you had a good time. And then he said I'd probably join one day. Um, as far as the guys, we know that he was not here for you dating other guys, however, So I brought it up in the car. I was like, you know, I've been thinking about all right, Well, you know they're dead, so I guess I'll talk about it later. But being

buy is very fun, right. What do you think about that? Though? Like um, she was saying, she wants an example of how this is going to work. They're being open with each other. Do you think that open relationships means every every detail? No, I don't think it has to. I've been in open relationships before as well, and I think that every couple finds what they're comfortable with. Every couple finds what they want, like I've been. I was in an open relationship for a while with somebody who like

the same situation. Like we adored each other, we were super close, the sex was amazing, but we were in very different places in our lives and geographically, so it like it wasn't a thing that we would be committed to each other. And I get so jealous, like it's not cute, so and what made you do the open relationship? Then I wanted him in my life, but it wasn't I'm not good at long distance. He wasn't right. That's a very good answer. That's kind of I just don't

want you. But I will tell you this though I can't say that I don't enjoy him dating other women. That sounds really weird, But I don't think it's weird. It's just everybody's front. I was going to say, because to me, I would be okay with a relationship, even long distance or whatever. Um, but unless I ask, I don't want to know that you're on dates. I don't

want to know what other women are your phone. Like I would be okay having an open relationship with where I know what you're doing, but I don't want to know if that makes sense. Like, so he's the opposite, right, he plays on my dates, like if I go in the bathroom. I think there was a time where I'm like, oh my god, she kissed me and blah blah blah happened and it was exciting and he likes that and

he did the same for me. I mean a picture of him all he was on a date with and I was like, that's right, and did like a play by not not even like immediately she was so pretty and I was like, her fucking eyebrowse sucked. They weren't that bad, you know, but like that's what we do. That's how I internalized it. But I just wonder, can women be in open relationships? Because what you said, do you think that was settling? I don't think it was settling.

I think it was a conscious decision. I was about to say, you literally, look, if you look at it, there's three women sitting here. We've all pretty much admitted to being in that same situation, in that same relationship, and I think all of us internalize what we can accept and what we want accept and I think for her it absolutely can work. But there needs to be

the key apparently to everything we talked about. Is this communication like talk about your test results, um, but also but also talk about like what you are willing to accept in a relationship, what you will allow and what you want to allow, and you have to be able to compromise and have a middle ground and know that that's what both of you guys are okay with, period. So it's okay to also change your mind too and

be like, actually, this feels kind of weird. I don't want to know this, or I do want to know what you're doing, but I don't want to know this like that, yeah, that's what her goddamn feelings, and I'd be like, that's not what you signed up for, So you go ahead and let them know you revising the list. Actually, me and Mandy got in a fucking blow out fight like after we recorded last I actually I didn't give a funk about her loved boy asset. We we probably

I didn't. We didn't talk for like a week. Oh no to you text me something like oh you didn't show up at the gym, And I was like, bitch, you thought we were friends? Like I was so mad, and then that and then that pissed me off because I died. She had me go into a cross fifthing. Do you see my thick ass? I like spin put me on a bike. I died and was hurting. Three days after I worked out of this ship to the point where I was gonna walk out. I was like, um,

the water found and I'm gonna go. She's like, oh, it's in the corner. I was like, shoot, I can't leave the room. I was planning an escape, but we got a fight because over there I was talking to doctor Kim, who's our guest and who's asking me about how my comfortability with this relationship and the truth that I hate to admit is for me with the open relationship, I'm just gonna keep it real in my mind, I need to feel like she's no like I am the

more important one. And knowing that, knowing that I'm the one that whether you've seen her often or you're making effort to contact and be with or make effort to just you know, keep it. I got to me it's embarrassing to say it like this main chick, and if right not, then I'm not kind of interested anyone. That's pretty normal. Like for the polyamorous community, it's the idea of having a primary you have a primary partner, and

then you have secondary partners or other relationships. Like in the relationship I was in, I was like, I we didn't really use the term primary and secondary, but I knew like I'm the person he loves, Like I'm the person who knows all of his like weird baggage. I know, like we we know each other in that way. And I wasn't threatened by anybody else. I was like, you can do whatever you want, you can funk whoever you want. But at the end of the day, I know that

I'm the person that's closer. I think that hierarchy is probably what keeps him feeling okay too. That yeah, I love that. So I think the advice for our listener, yeah, for sure, to go ahead and just communicate it and figure out what your boundaries are. And again communication, which apparently has been the key to everything that we do, Like are you buy by the way, I am? Are you?

I'm new about it too. I came out last year and it's funny, like going back to the question we had about virginity and experience, like with men, I don't give a ship like I am so confident, I know exactly what to do. I'm not intimidated. And with women, I'm just like, you're really pretty. I don't know how to do anything. I've never done anything sexually. It's like starting from square. When I feel like I'm twelve, you

still haven't done anything sexually, not yet now. So it's like, it's so the idea of an experience is so relative because there's some ways in which I've done everything, and that's kissing. I feel like you're kissed right, Oh my god, like my first when I knew the girl kisses. Holy change. It's like I'm like shaking sometimes. It still happens to me, even with girls I've already been with. It's so exciting.

So if you guys will wrap up the show, and what we'll do is we'll leave our listeners with kind of something to think about. So if you could give our listeners one moral of the story or one thing to think about, or drop a drop a gem, what would you leave our listeners with? Oh my god, so much pressure. I just thought it would be nice to kind of end it with a bang, like and well, I guess I can, I guess I can, I can try. I mean I feel like the biggest jaw dropper I

ever say is like you probably have her bees. You will probably get her bees. Yeah. And if you guys want to look on YouTube the which I love the title, UM, it's it's like her pies is not a consequences at cis UM And so again I think you guys, UM definitely look her up. Listen, you guys can probably type in Ella and it'll pop up. But Ella Dawson d A W. S O n UM read her articles. She's

in Women's Health magazine, which is where I found her. Um, she's pretty popping, like she's lit and were across from her and she's awesome. Um. I want to go ahead and let you guys know as well to continue sitting us your letters. We love it. I also what you'll to UM give me my props. I think I did well when not over talking our guests today, which I did really well. Actually I was super proud of myself. So I am listening to critiques. I'm listening to all

of your reviews. We read it, we talk it out, and we're still new as we're working on getting better. So go ahead and continue emailing us at horrible decisions at gmail dot com and follow us on Instagram? Can they do? You want them to follow you Twitter? She has a blue checkmark, so you guys can follow her. Damn, yeah, she's verified. I work in social media, so I have an in damage. We want the blue checks? Do you know how much more dick I would get a blue check? Stops?

I'm just playing. It's not It's not what I want. So where can they find you? I'm on Twitter at bros and Prose because I write prose about bros. M Bros, bros and Prose. Yeah, please don't be weird and sexual to me because I will yell at you for it. They're pretty disgusting. And where can they find you? Easy? She's such a little hunt about it on bumble there swipe.

All right, Well, guys, I'm gonna go ahead, and I know we didn't give you a song at the beginning of the show, but I do want to drop you a gem on a great song um from Kaylani, and I think it fits the topic and it's pretty much about loving yourself and knowing who you are before you seek love from someone else. Um. So we'll leave that at the end of the show. Listen to it. Her album is Dope. You can listen to it straight through. I'm surprised. I didn't know I was gonna be a

stand but I actually love her album. So um, we're gonna leave that with you, guys, and thank you. This has been another episode of horrible decisions that was so much fun. That was great. Little girl watching her fish and she thought her curves into foresations. She says, I don't look like them. I don't look like her, and I don't want what's on by he But Babycaul, don't be amazingly Yeah yeah, young woman reading magazines thinking to herself, nobody looks like me. Oh wow, cat, all these curts,

all this nerve. Why can't I keep buming? But baby girl, if you love yourself, you can came. Nobody love somebody that you not love themselves. You are what you choo to be. It's not up to no one else. So be great, be kind, so that them beem your life. Woman like a sun should always stay right. Little boy sitting in the pleach, just staring night at his dirty sneek because thinking my shoes don't shine, money is tight,

I would never get a day. But baby boy, that's not what it, it tastes, oh, young baby always have the same fine the ways