Ep118: My Body, My Choice

do have professionals. We will be digging into everything regarding women's rights and what's going on with abortions, UM, and of course just our bodies and what the rights that are being taken away from us right now. So I'm excited. It's a Monday morning. We here as always, it's horrible decisions. I'm your girl, Mandy. Hi, I'm easy, and we have two wonderful people here to join us in this conversation.

Can you go ahead and introduce your selves to our listeners and let them know why you guys are sitting across from us. Hi, thank you guys for having us. I'm Lacy and here with Danielle UM. I am kind of a newcomer to this work. I've been more deeply involved in the last year, but um, prior to that, I worked in media for like the last ten years and really wanted to help put the medicine in the sugar and have recently transitioned into working in sexual and

reproductive health and rights. And Danielle actually who you'll meet in a moment um. I attended a meeting with her in January of oh seven, ye of seventeen, dating myself. I came to a meeting in my community and she was speaking about, like, you know, post Trump, like what was going on, and she lit a fire under my ass and I started to volunteer and become an advocate and eventually work for an organization that does this work. So here to talk about everything, yes, yes, and then YEA,

what is it that you do? U, I'm so excited to be here. I'm excited to have you. UM. So I work for an organization called the National Institute for Reproductive Health. I am the vice president of Political and Government Affairs, which is a lot to say with my

very long first and last name. As well. We heard, girl, I gotta like gear up to do it in meetings, um, and what that means is and I r H as an organization that works at the state and local level to try to UM improve access to abortion another reproductive health care UM. One of the things that I always clarify and this is important for like the general public, but also people in the movement. We're a reproductive health and rights organization. So what that means is we focus

on changing laws UM. With that comes culture change and UMU community organizing. But it's all sort of with the the premise of trying to change laws in policies. There is UM an additional movement called Reproductive Justice UM, which is what we try to use to inform the work that we do. But that is really a much more holistic movement UM designed to advocate for people to have children and families when they want to and where they want to, and for it to be safe and healthy

for them to do that UM. And it's a movement that is created by and led by people of color, started by black women primarily UM. So I always feel like I want to like clear if I where we sit within the movement well, and I also want to touch on just kind of how hard I know that is, especially with the climate change so on one of my flights. I don't remember what city I was going to, but I ended up watching On the Basis of Sex, which is about Ruth Ginsburg. If you guys, um watched that movie.

It was literally a woman lawyer who took I guess her law studies to go and change women's rights and kind of all of the outdated laws that are specific to gender mostly women. UM. So I just know that

that's very hard to do. And before we start this conversation, I guess one of the things that you actually came in and said before we start having the conversation, you said, we need to touch on who has abortions, before we get into the stigma surrounding it, before we bring up any myths, and before we even talk about the shape surrounding it. We want to talk about who has abortions. So what is your who has abortions? I mean we do, I'm the same, Um. The answer is sort of everyone.

Abortion is extremely normal. Um. There's not a ton of medical procedures in this society that we treat the way we treat abortion. And by not a ton, I mean like none, Um, other than abortion. You don't have to go to a tonsilectomy clinic. To get your tonsils removed, you go to the hospital where you get the rest of your medical Um. So the people who have abortions are um, of every age, of lots of genders. Some men have women who have abortions. Um, some men have abortions. Uh.

Anybody who can become pregnant can have an abortion. How do men have abortions? Trans people, gender binary people identify people who frankly have an even harder time accessing medical care than women do. Right. Um, and uh, the statistic

it changes a little bit. It's one in four, one in five women have had an abortion, one in four recently when I was looking it up and whether it's one and four and one and five five percent difference, But like it's crazy how I went online on our Twitter like the day the Georgia thing happened or whatever, and I was like, I want men to send in your abortion stories. And I was really grateful for the men that stood by women and saying like, hey, this

happened to me too. I mean, we didn't get ourselves pregnant it, you know what I mean. And a lot of times men don't include themselves in this conversation as far as the abortion experience goes, as far as the emotions that go behind the confusion, the financial worries, like it's a two part job, but only one person holds

the baby. But yeah, consider ourselves lucky if we get a ride to the clinic right right when you're right, two people were involved in or even not only that, even even the experience from the man automatically saying, well, you're gonna abort it. So there's also the pressure that's automatically given from the man. But then I also know a lot of men who didn't feel like they were a part of the decision that was made. So like the man has felt it from either side. So I

think that that's very interesting. I wanted to get into I guess now that we know everyone is a part of the abortion conversation, UM, I wanted to get into some of the myths UM. And before we get into this, as you guys know, Weeie and I have both shared our abortion story on this show before and I said something that I would like UM to possibly mend um

or correct um. And as you guys know, I this is a learning process for me with this podcast, with bringing people on with learning, you know more about a ton of things. So something that I said and something that I guess and I don't even know how I learned it, and I guess you guys can make me unlearn it. There's a lot of misinformation, a lot. So in the abortion episode, I did mention that there could be caused, um, fertility issues could be caused with abortions.

Um and Lacy was like, girl, Um, so what is the actual physical damage that can be done to the reproductive system if having an abortion? And if not, where did that come from? So abortion is like exceptionally safe. It's one of the safest medical procedures out there. It's safe here now. Seriously, abortion is exceptionally safe. Um. That misinformation come from the anti abortion movement, and the anti abortion movement is loud and it is not concerned with

the truth or accuracy in any um and Son. It's designed to scare you. Um, and it's designed to make you question this decision that you've already decided is right for you. Right. So abortion is exceptionally safe. Um. When abortion is done in UH safe setting, where it's legal, where providers are trained, where you're receiving abortion care. The way you're receiving healthcare. In general, abortion is exceptionally safe. Um,

when folks can access abortion earlier in pregnancy, of course. Um, but of course we've thrown up all these barriers to people, um accessing the religion. What are the other tactics like you're seeing needs to make people guilt chip their abortion? So I think there's a lot. The one thing I do just want to add before I address that, though,

is abortion is significantly safer than childbirth. You are far more likely to die in childbirth than you are to die in an abortion, especial especially now, especially if you were a black woman. The rates of maternal mortality in the US are at astronomical. Abortion is safer than pushing it out, and for black women it's something like twelve times higher than for everyone else. High in New York City. In New York City, I was going to say, that's what I heard about New York too. I heard it's

higher in New York than anywhere else. We're up there. It's not the high, but it's high. Although if you start breaking the numbers don't even further. If you're a black woman giving birth in the South, ron and it's basically it's dangerous thing you can do in the US, black women having babies in the hospital complaining about issues pain,

that doctor is not listening to us. That's where the safe situations happened for black women, right, So right, it's Serena Williams not being believed, and she's Serena Williams in the world, just a black woman just saying this doesn't feel right and a doctor just not believing her. Now, I guess can I get that to the other spectrum? So if a white woman says, hey, this hurts, is she just being attended to more? She's more likely to be believed believe. But like, we're not all just human

bodies are the color of our skin doesn't change. Are anatomy is working? No? Of course, friends of mine or doesn't friends of mine who are having children right when I'm at thirties, um, like we're always having conversations like whether they have a partner in the picture or not.

Like bring an advocate in the room, Like I know you guys had a doula episode, right, Bring someone in the room who knows what you want, who knows that at a certain point during um, you know the birthing process that the physician can't come over and just like snip you, because that's what he or she feels is the next step, and that you've given your permission to

have something done to your body. Or by snip, she means an episiotomy, which is cut in the skin between the bottom of your vaginal opening, which is I believe Naya may have mentioned that she had We had a guess that that mentioned friends that have a vaginal birth

that didn't get snipped. So and and there's a lot of every single one concern about that, right because oftentimes will and I'm not an expert on childbirth, birth to child UM, but also I'm in my mid thirties and spent a lot of time talking to people who have UM, and there's a lot of concern. It's much harder to heal from a decision than it is from a natural time to talk about it. I feel it in my

feel it. And that's just like one thing in the like soup to nuts like process that of like what your wishes are, what you're consenting to, So overall, like yes, black women definitely bear the bront of the statistic for show, but if you know anyone who's being who is pregnant, like tell them to have an Everyone should have an advocate who knows there was this. I like that. So one of the other myths that I wanted to get on is that many people believe only young, irresponsible women

seek to have abortions. So I wanted to maybe go through some of the reasons why someone may want to have an abortion outside of them being younger irresponsible. I think that's a terrible title to put on a you know, well, so oneing for a women I've had an abortion. There's four of us sitting in this room, and the number is already higher, right, Um, yeah, abortion, I've liked one. So and I'll speak from my own perspective. I've had two abortions and I am thirty nine years old. I

am a product of absolute like AIDS panic. Um. I grew up as a kid with just AIDS being the absolute specter of the most terrifying thing that can So I have a lot of like sex paranoia about that I've never had the only that's not true I had unprotected sex on my wedding night. That is the only two I have not had unprotected sex. And I still had two abortions because birth control is not infallible. I want to wait, wait, wait, wait, but like I really

appreciate hearing that. I think it's what adi eight point something percent. I've had condoms break as far as like unrightly point something per cent. I don't know what it is, but like not saying if you're having a lot of sex, helping your odds of something going wrong. I currently use a diaphragm for contraception because I wanted a non hormonal method, and because did the men not believe you in your experience? Like were they like, oh we used the condom? Did

they like make you feel No? But they were like partners, like long term and like they knew the condom. Bro, Well, it's not only it's not only even the contraceptive, but like we even just had a recent conversation about the Plan B pill, and there is proven fact that for women for a certain way, it's not as effective for we're just talking about that. Yeah, and that was something for me, Like I just lost, um, almost eighty pounds in last year, but that was important for me to get,

you know, to my friends who are listeners already. Yeah, because we read it it was saying that they were it was like a test study, and I think it's only a hundred and sixty pounds. It's it's it's it's or something. It's somewhere. It's more like very A lot of people are over two hundred pounds. Like America, I think the average weight of a woman was like seven pounds away from what it was, which is sucking that crazy.

And so people contraception contraception fails. Um Contraception isn't always available because you have a partner that won't use it, because you can't access it yourself, because you're assaulted, because of a whole host of reasons. Um, people don't have a great understanding of their body. Not only there a timing things properly and our but a lot of people will even just go based off of their period coming, which in fact, you can still be pregnant and still

be having a period. She said it wasn't a real period, but she's like I definitely saw some blood and I was like, okay, yeah, people and people don't really know

how their fertility cycle works. There was just as also as a side note, there was just a thing one of the fertility tracking apps it was just released, was actually like GAUM or something it's with an F and it just came out that it was created by and paint abortion by anti abortion Shut the fun Up, which is an app that was created essentially to allow women to track their ovulation. And what it was is it was purposefully making the relation that it was purposely doing

anything wrong. But what it was was taking that information and sending it back to an organization that was specifically trying to you limit abortion rights, which at a time when we're seeing a I'm trying to figure out the best way to say this, a complete dissolution of our

government is really terrifying. Not to get to handsmad handmade tally here, but like also with like you know, all of the how they were finding that they were tracking periods for like UM for the girls with migrant children girls what Scott Lloyd, who was the head of the Office of Refugee Resettlement, it's o r R. That might not be what it actually stands forth something like that UM like it had to spreadshetension camps, had to spreadsheet to when these of all of them teenagers, when they

were men, they were men, were seeking an abortion and was trying to prevent them from getting them civil liberties had to do, like lawsuit after lawsuit after laws. So like if they imagine if they're tracking that information, how surprising, How surprising is it that like an app that you don't really know where it comes from? Who opulation cycle after that? Like I mean, you know they sell the kid like so you can figure it out and then from there you can make sure. But even like to

this day, I used to app. I've been on the the method for three years, havn't gotten pregnant. But one of my friends doctor we've had on doctor Kim Natural Happy Doctor. She's like, even with your discharged, like make sure if that's it, says the fifth, check yourself and see if that's really coming out of you, Like this is how women have done it for years, like fun the apparelling a machine, right, which is what I said, Like hopping on planes every weekend and habits changing, all

of that can effect when you get your periods. So's around you? Who's around you? Oh, your period will match sometimes just even the women that are around you. So like to me, yeah, the app thing, I've kind of always said, I'm not gonna have it a good, tell me it's a good, Like engauge. I've never had an exactly always one or two days off, but tracking the

obulations through the kid is what let me know. It's just more of like a p s A for your listeners, like the things that we are using to collect our own data, like we're not the only people who are who have So I wanted to get into me. I wanted to get into now our vanilla ship for this week, and we're pretty much gonna do a larger segment um than normal for our vanilla ship. But I wanted to get into what we're facing now with the government and

these bullshit as state laws um. And there are now fifteen states who have went as far as to pass these abortion laws um, and some that have made abortion criminal as a criminal fence, others who are making it a much shorter time frame in which you can actually have an abortion, which of course I believe. When I was growing up, I lived in the state of Georgia, you couldn't get it after in like the third trimester,

which is or the second trimester. It was at like six after five months, you couldn't get it in Georgia. But right now it's six weeks, which a lot of time we have a monthly cycle. Like we just said, we can be a week off and still not be part. You may not even know, you may not never, We may not know in the sixth um weeks. So I wanted you have your little space. Um. And of course one of the laws or one of the states that made the most of us about this was Alabama recently. Hum.

So the first thing I want to start by saying is that abortion is technically at least legal in all fifty states. Still. That is really important to know all of those states. It is legal for all of these states that have passed these six week bands in the last few months. Uh, none of them have gone into effect yet they are there's a political strategy behind passing these laws that are that's aiming to get to the

Supreme Court. So that's the key thing to know. If you are in Ohio or Mississippi or Georgia or Alabama, it is still legal for you to access abortion states and there are people who are trying to help you access the abortion care you need. So that's really important. And we'll give I'll give you a full list of like all the resources you can put it up and will definitely our Patreon, but it'll be in the description

of this episode. So there's there's a bunch of places that there are laws about abortion right at the state level. All of this is done under the umbrella of Roe v. Wade, which is a Supreme Court decision. We will talk about like it as federal law, but it's not a law to Supreme Court decision. This is the moment where I always clarify I'm not a lawyer. I talked to lots of lawyers all of the time. I think none of being lawyers. We see these these new articles that we

don't know what it means. So I'm not gonna lie. I thought that it was effects already. But I'm not a lawyer. But I am a lobbyist, so I'm very concerned about the goings on of government right so um I also, and I r H is a nonpartisan organization. If I had a bunch of pro Traice Republicans to talk about I would, but I don't. So I watch

your opinion on something, Daniel. I used to work with a woman that voted for Trump and we would always sit naw you about it, and she said to me one day, you act like they can turn like turnover roversus weight like you need to relax, And I want to know your opinion on that because we're watching all of this go on within the last two years of

having a ship bag. Yeah, run the office, and I am curious to know what you think as far as rovers it goes in if that really could happen to so yes, and no Supreme Court decisions are unlikely to just be flipped over. And what Roe says is that you have the right to access an abortion up to twenty four weeks or later than that if the life or health of the woman is in danger or in cases of fetal inviability. That is the standard of Row and the subsequent cases that came after it. Right, So

that's like our national umbrella. What we think is going to happen is that states have been passing laws, and I don't think it's going to be any of these more recent law So I think it's gonna be ones that have already been passed um that have been working their way through the court system and getting to circuit courts in an effort to get to the Supreme Court. And what I think we're going to see, and this is just sort of guessing but like educated guessing is

a chipping away at access. So abortion will still technically be legal, but the states will be allowed to put in put in place so many barriers you won't be able to access it. As far as the cause, as far as far as clinics open, clinics being open if the patient specifically is is um uh could be made available to have care um insurance issues documentation status, right, like, just start putting rules in place that I have. This

is not new. These are things that in many of these states have been going on for years and years and years are before been setting the stage for forgetting the Supreme Court that we have now. And even I mean as far as even just funding for like the organizations. I think we all know of Planned Parenthood, but even when Trump came into office, that was one of the number one thing like that was one of the first things he did was cut funding for that organization amongst

other organizations. Correct sort of. Uh, there's already a prohibition on federal funding for abortion care. It's called the Hide. You guys brought up the Hide monument on your last show. Um. It's named after guy named Henry Hyde who said I can't make it impossible for everyone to get an abortion, so I'll just make it impossible for poor women, like said it out loud, said the inside part outside. And UM, what that means is that Medicaid in most states can't

cover abortion. In some states, like in New York, we put state dollars in to fund abortion for Medicaid patients. But more people in New York can abortion care. So he didn't actually cut abortion funding. What he cut, or what he's trying to mess with, is funding for family planning, for contraceptive care, for sex said for all of the things around in it and saying I'm cutting money to those terrible abortion organizations because he can't actually there's no

money for him to cut. He did implement. UM. There's a thing called the global gag rule which goes back and forth with the parties UM, which says, when Republicans are in charge, they say that international organizations can't get US aid dollars if they're going to talk about abortion, so like in foreign countries, huge geopolitical issue. UM, and he's trying to implement basically a domestic gag rule that says that organizations in the US, if they're going to

provide a refer for abortions. Also, that's kind of an ongoing fight right now. That's a lawsuit that's working its way up. So the answer to the Supreme Court question is like, it's not gonna it's I don't think it's gonna get overturned, but I do think that it's going to get chipped away out enough that the states will be able to block people from actually having meaningful access to care. So we have this like over arching umbrella

like the rights that Row gives us. And then there's a bunch of states that had bands before Roe v. Wade, which passed in nineteen seventy three. So prior to nineteen seventy three, they passed bands on abortion, which were then deemed unconstitutional by Row. So if Row were to be overturned, they would it would still be banned in those states,

like automatically. There's a bunch of states that post Roe v. Wade passed what we call trigger bands, which is if Roe v. Wade gets overturned, then it becomes illegal in the states. So there's like six of them, so they're already liked they were just prepared like the late seventies, this has been done since then. There are states that have essentially total bands, but none of them are in effect.

And these are the ones that we're hearing about in the news, right, Ohio, Mississippi, Georgia, Alabama, Louisiana, Missouri, Iowa, Kentucky, North Dakota. Places that you might expect, and then they're a bunch of places. And this is always really important for me to talk about that are actually passing proactive expansions of abortion rights. And that's something that we did in New York this year. Um, New York, Massachusetts, Washington, Delaware,

Illinois just did it like last week. Um now in Ohio, Nevada. Correct, isn't Ohio like completely that's a six week right, I was a six week band, but as the Alabama again not in effect. That I actually before we had this episode a few days ago, because I knew it was coming up, called plant Parenthood, asked for medical records and I wanted to see how many weeks I was when

I got my abortion. And just so you guys know, I got an abortion the week after I found out I was pregnant, and that was eight weeks, which is which is crazy because so when I got mine, I actually argued with them dates told me I was six weeks. I knew to the day. I knew when it happened who it was with, becuse I didn't even have I knew what it was and I was exactly four and

a half weeks. They told me six. It's because of the way they date pregnancy, which is so so that also affects so I could have gone in there even though they're I'm telling them the exact date this happened. Who it was with. I knew fourth of July weekend. Yeah, anyway, I was literally four and a half weeks. This is when we went to Tampa, bich But anyways, I was four and a half weeks. I found out the next

I knew my body something wasn't right. I ended up taking a goddamn pregnancy test in a Kroker bathroom because I was ship face scared. I was going into so. I was actually in Georgia, but we had like we we ended up going to Tampa that weekend. I went back home and my body just wasn't right. I knew I was four and a half weeks, and on you know, when I have my bours, Nay, we'll give you a picture. Um, So I got the picture of my my stomach and my mom asked me over and over do you want

to see it? Do you want it? It It was nothing but a dot. It was literally a dot, and I, you know, I didn't feel connected at all. We'll get into my story a little bit later, but um, yeah, I was four and a half weeks and they told me I was sick. So for you to know your time and what was that your exact date, well, I called them and asked and so like that was on my records. But um, I mean yeah, I do remember letting a week go by because I was stressed out

with works. I was like, okay, so maybe my period will kind of right. It didn't. Um, but that's the thing. It's like crazy. And I actually took a pregnancy test the night of our Toronto show because the app was freaking me out. My app was updating me like you're one day late, and I was like, fuck, someone follow my girlfriend. She's like, bitch, you definitely pregnant. I was like, no, but I feel like cramp. She was like I did too, So I go to take care of it while you're

in right right, I'm feeling out, dude. I walked to the I don't know what the grocery store, I mean, like whatever they have there. But anyway, I couldn't even like hold on, like I don't know why we all do it in like supermarketing, like pharmacy bathrooms can't well, I was an age. I was like, I am not doing this in my home, and I was ship base scared to even bring it back to me. All I know is like when I actually told my mom that I was pregnant and she listened to the show so

shout out to you, mom um. I literally had it in my hand and I took two because the first one, I was like, man, maybe the first one broke, So I took the second. No, ship so I took the second one that she came. I just started bawling tears, and so I walked home. I couldn't even tell my mom. So I walked into her room and at this point, I'm just literally bawling crying, and she's like, what's wrong, what's wrong? Tell me? And she just started shaking her head.

I think she knew and all I did was show her. I handed her the things, and then that became like a whole conversation because my mom, I won't say the number, but I was her first child after her having multiple abortions, so it was to a point where she loved having me. My my last sister was almost aborted, and that's a conversation we've had, and so like her immediate response was Okay,

what do you want to do? And she gave me that option, but she like when ahead and shared how much she kind of regretted the one before the abortion before me and seeing how her daughters came out after like the ones that she didn't have, and so it affected her mentally after and so she just wanted to

make sure I was okay with it. Shout out she did, and she even all the way up until me going to the clinic, it was just like, are you sure this was And she literally had the conversation with me about her regrets of her abortions, just you know, because she just didn't want me to feel what she felt. Hey, guys,

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of all of your subscriptions. Now I'm super excited to get back to this conversation. So now let's get back to the episode. Was there any type of conversation that you and your mom had, because I know you being your mom's only with so my mom had me at forty, she did know she would have kids. I think and my aunt rest in peace of aunt. But she had like five miscarriages or something, so like childbirth is like really hard, um, which not like it's funny, but I'm

just saying. So when I was like pregnant, I was like, yo, I was like, the way should be going with my family And I don't even know if this thing Like, I mean, bro, my grandma said it. My aunt had five miscarriages, my mom had three. I was like, yo, I mean maybe like lots of lots of pregnancies and in miscarriage outside that's not even right. So um, but so yeah, anyway, when I ended up having my abortion, my mom was super supportive, Like I was in my opinion,

like I don't care. I'm twenty eight years old right now. If I got pregnant today, I'm not ready. I still feel like a kid. You know, I might be financially stable, but I'm not mentally stable for a kid. My mom was talking about how you know, she's like, I just accepted my life without a kid as much as I wanted you. She was talked about that postpartum, about how bad it was and how regretful she was feeling. You know,

I mean that's a real thing. I couldn't imagine thinking I was going to have an abortion abortion felt shamed enough for guilty enough to keep it and then end up with this kid the whole time. I know people in my life right now that probably shouldn't have had kids. And it's also okay to just not want children, Like

it's okay to just not want what motherhood sucks. Yeah, I think there's nothing wrong with having an abortion and also want to add the shaming around abortion, like I felt it too, and like even from friends like making jokes about it, like it's funny and we laugh and whatever, but like is it though in the moment they're like damn, and like you laugh, but you laugh, I think to cover up how you might really feel, you know, I mean we all got to feel a little sup you

asked earlier about like besides religion, which I don't think is besides. I think it's a really big piece of big like what are the other sort of like forces around the stigma of abortion. And I think there's a couple of things. One um, religion is a huge piece of it. Family absolutely, but also all of it comes back to a need culturally to control women. It also

obviously impacts other people who can get pregnant. But this cultural need is to control women, and the best way to control women is to keep them out of control of their fertility. If you can't control that when you're having a child, or how many children you're having, or if you're having children, you can't be in control of your economic life. You can't be in control of your career, your happiness. Can you control of your happiness? You uh,

get removed from society at ways. Talk about Sorry, I just loved my dream of dreams, not the shame. I'll come back to it. There's there's a Ruth Bader Ginsberg quote that I'm going to rutalize, apologize, but about um, the ability to control ones one's reproduction is like intrinsic to women being a full member of society. Oh that's the gist of it again, or I've got it. A lot of people have said the heartbeat bill and oh well later abortions. Uh, it's not good because maybe you

could feel it. Maybe we could do this. Can we talk about maybe, I mean as far as you can speak to but like how true all that is? Yeah? You know, like because they pretty much which mine is not so bad because if it's only six weeks, mine looks like it didn't have a heartbeat at the point twenty seven days or something as heartbeat said that in the other and then you guys shared your stories initially, So what is the what date is a heartbeat thing?

I'm not a doctor, so I'm I like, don't know specifics, but from what I've read, like that's more of like a pulsation from like, it's not a heartbeat. Oh, it's not a heartbeat. Again, this is a symptom of missing amation that people do to pull it heartstrings at people who are already inclined, whether it's their family pressure or huge to be like that's crazy. I am almost I'm going to send you the pulsations not a heartbeat paraphrase point where Fauslop developing the mechanism that is a heart

These heartbeat bills are not about that point. They are about a moment in which, during ultrasound you can hear what sounds like a pulse um but really full well, it's it's happening. It's something happening. It could be ship moving because now it's getting ready. It's just the thing that and and I am an unapologetic pro abortion person. People are always like, nobody is like pro abortion, Like I am absolutely am. I was right. Didn't get her fired? Well,

the men don't want her to like anything. I don't want to work with her, but I'll take that one point. I come from a perspective that abortion is not a tragedy. It's not a difficult, tragic, horrible decision. Abortion is a social good. Abortion is a medical procedure that allows women to engage in society fully. That is, people legislators love to ask, like, well, how do we reduce the abortion rate?

I don't care about reducing dis abortion rate. I care about being there being exactly as many abortions as people need. That is, if someone is listening to us right now and truly believes, but you're murdering, You're killing a human being, You're killing a person, which is what this This where the criminal aspect of it comes from. You like, you're killing a human life. For the listeners that are listening and truly believe that it, Like, I guess what would

you say to that? Or I think you can believe it, fine, knock yourself out. You can also believe anything else that you want I don't care what you believe. I cared deeply about what people legislate. Now, there's still harm in your believing that, because that's where we enter all of this cultural stigma. But it's when people start legislating based on these medically inaccurate, religiously based, oppressive, all over google which is all over everything contry. Yeah. Um, that's where

we have a problem. Okay. You know there are legislators out there who are saying, I'm voting for this pro abortion bill because of my religious beliefs. It's something that Governor Cuomo is said. I am a Catholic, but I am I am a legislator who is running the state of New York and this is important and good. So like, it's not Evangelicals and Catholics don't have a monopoly on religious belief about abortion, but they would like you to believe that they do right. And it still should be

a separation between Welsh state. Maybe I was just no, I was just about to say that. Um, you know you asked the question about if someone who's listening, if they feel like they're you know, hurting a fetus or killing or you know, taking a life. Um, I read this recently from on the Daily Beast, there was a piece according to the founding fathers, a fetus is not an American person. The United States Constitution clearly indicates that

human life begins at birth, not at conception. So like on a legal level of New York definds a person as someone who is born in life. So I mean that could be one Maybe that might make sense to

someone who's listening. I understand there's a lot of like moral back and forth on this, of course, but um, yeah, when once you're in the world, yours are there like resources or groups or like women that have felt like too much shame or like or any like so many, so many, there's so there's lots of folks who are

doing like anti stigma work around abortion. Um, there's a group called Shout Your Abortion that publishes I've been seeing the stories online about that publishes people's abortion stories that they submit to them. They wrote a whole book. I think Lindy West hadn't had an excerpt in there. And our home mail for this episode, guys will actually be and we want to think um our listeners. So when weezy you know, ask people to share their stories. We did get some emails as well, so we'll be sharing

an abortion experience from one of our listeners. Just even the fact that you guys have shared yours, the fact that this is like a kind of a movement that's

brewing and more people are like adding to that. The more we talk about this stuff and people share their experiences and like, just you know, especially men in our lives, and get them more in involved in having the conversation and what are it affects like women they know where their partners or whomever, Like this is something we need to keep talking and even because in our mainstream too lately.

I don't know if you guys watched the game, there was an episode UM where I believe it was Tea or Tamara, I don't know which one is on there, but um, one of the twins Um went to the doctor with her partner at the time, and she had never let him know that she had an abortion previously. And so even having that conversation with your partner, I think a lot of women do feel the shame of even bringing up, Hey, I've done this before and he's

sex in the city. I don't know if you guys, Carrie lied, she's because He's like, have you ever had one? She's like, oh god, now, oh god no, and like she's like, why the fund did I do that? Why? And the most sex positive show of the nineties, Like why even in that, why did we do that? We set at this table, like I can't believe we're doing this. I can't believe literally we we We did the whole preface and me and her were just like, oh my god. I didn't think I would ever show you know what

I didn't. It's not so acknowledge that we're sex positive, but there's a lot of truth behind hor phobia and abortion shame and feeling like what are they going to think of me? And even as people like this, you watched Carrie right who, second to Samantha, was the most sex positive person, but we still feel that that really tells you how our upbringing has shaped us to feel

shame about it. Agree on I was talking to um Lacy actually and a part of kind of my abortion that I didn't share, and I was talking to her about UM and I guess we can talk to it as well. It's kind of like the PTSD or the aftermath of what people are feeling after they have abortions. And so I was talking to a friend of mine, UM shout out to Cecilia. We were having a conversation and we talked about oh my God, like the casual sex, me wanting a boyfriend, me doing all of these things.

And during our conversation, I burst into tears UM because I realized, and I'm on the podcast a lot talking about I love condom dick. I like fucking guys with condoms. I only you know, I don't like raw dick. There's

like I'm scared of ship to have raw sex. And not only, of course, I'm concerned about catching something, but having a baby is like, to me right now outside of a disease, of course, is kind of the worst thing that could happen because to me, I genuinely feel like I don't want to go through the abortion UM experience again. And talking to her, I realized why UM when I had my abortion UM, and I just I think this is more so of a personality trait. I like to prove people wrong. I hate to feel like

I disappoint people. And with that decision, I felt like I let three people down. I let my mom down. She was in tears, crying and we Also at that point I lied to my mom. I went a year with my period and didn't even tell her. So in terms of my body and me growing up, I never felt like I had anyone to really talk sex or anything about my body with growing up UM, so at that when I let her down, I felt like I

let my homegirl down. Shout out to Kita Um. She was the one My mom could not afford my full abortion, even though we had healthcare. She didn't have the money too. We wouldn't have been able to pay our bills that month if she so. I literally reached out to my homegirl, who worked at an ice cream shop, and she sent the money up for me to be able to pay for my abortion. The third person I felt like I let down but also kind of affected me was the

person who got me pregnant. When I told him I was going to do it, he was I rate and said, you're killing my son. He had a daughter already. He was just certain that I had his son, and so he didn't want me to get it. He didn't help send money for UM when I was pregnant, and then, of course, in the process of the two weeks to me to set the clinic appointment and all of that things. He actually ended up getting locked up, so go figure.

But he made it hell because he felt like I was killing his son, So he guilt shamed me into me believing like I'm killing his son that he wants. So having that experience of letting three people down with this one decision, I just know I probably I just don't want to ever experience that again. And so I feel like that's even why I'm so like pro condom. I you know, because I feared it again. Listen, I know,

I mean A sure things happen. Also, it's probably a lot easier to enjoy sex if you're not worried about, right, If that's what you're comfort like, you've learned what works for you, which is important. Yes, it's a I mean, I don't I'm sad that you've had all those feelings. Right. Those are hard feelings. Those are not necessarily abortion feelings. Those are relationship feelings for sure. They're triggered by your

mom's feelings about her choices. They're triggered by your partner at the time not frankly respecting your bodily out toime me enough to support you in that decision. They're triggered by the feeling of having to rely on other people like your friend, which also was an amazing friend. She shouldn't like, we're all gonna like candles for her instead of feeling but like, instead of feeling badly towards her, or that you disappointed her, how about finding gratitude that

she helped you in that moment. Of course, you know what I mean, and I know that that's oversimplification, but but also all of those things, all of those feelings happened because barriers have put up been put up against you accessing cameras, because that guy had been told that his feelings mattered more than yours, because your mom had been told she did something wrong right, all of those things are the compounding effect of God, damn, you know.

I mean, I'm just saying, look, I don't I don't know, You're not. Are you gonna feels like your tonsils didn't get a chance to live? You know, I had a different experience because I think I was so sure that this is what I had to do, like how a

relationship that person was my boyfriend. It was like I was positive and honestly, even now, like people ask me like how like I don't even attach those feelings, and then when I watched certain movies or talk to certain people, they'll know the ages that they would have been down to the day. I don't regret it, I will say, it's not a regret where where I saw even me in her life like us just trying to figure out

life on our own. At all of my friends who have children or just one child to have to take care of themselves and a whole note, I was so dumb, honestly for real, Like I think I just got over the dumb hump at like act even I don't know how to call you. I don't you know, people figure it out right, but you have the opportunity to decide

if you want to figure it out right. So I want to think, can I say one more thing on that, just to echo again what she said, but also like as you were talking and saying that, seeing your facial

expression change and like thinking about that time. It's just interesting too for I think as people are going through these situations to try and make like to differentiate what their feelings are on the process versus the outside input they're getting from people they care a lot about and and the pressure that that kind of comes with that. And I just I just as you were talking, I

want to say one more thing. There are a lot of women and trans people who are in relationships like that that gentleman friend of yours who pressure them to stay in them by getting them pregnant. Like, there's a lot of domestic violence. Uh, reproductive coortion is very very really and you just you know, you barely touched on like this. This guy who you were dating, like pressured you into you know, want to keep there right mind you. And again, like I said, he had sometimes not the

ones that listen. But yeah, I don't know what what he planned. He was in the streets at the time. That's probably also I don't deal with him type of nigs nor um. But like, yeah, like what you're saying is exactly what it was like. And while a lot of men that we would think pressure woman to have an abortion because they don't want it, I got the opposite of him saying, oh my god, you're gonna kill my baby. It's my it's my little boy. Yeah, in

his life forever. So I wanted to ask you, guys, um, what are the steps so if someone wants to have an abortion. What are the steps and which you would do to get one? Because both of you are are in the space like some some people don't even know where to be game. It varies a little bit based

on where you live, which is unfortunate. So if you're in a state like New York or Massachusetts or California, UM, you can go to a your doctor, if you're a public hospital, any medical provider, and in those states they should be able to refer you to an abortion provider, whether it's in the hospital. You can get an abortion at bellevue like not all procedures, but like you don't always have to go to a clinic. If you're in a place where there is less access to care, you're

going to have to do a few things. You're going to have to find a provider, and there's a bunch of ways to do that. You can look for Planned parenthoods if they don't provide abortion in your state, they'll refer you to an abortion provider. You can look at the National Abortion Federation, which represents all of the independent clinics. They have a website. But if you're going to google, like abortion Cleveland, one of the things you know, like

whatever where an abortion UM. One of the things you're going to have to look out for is there are these fake anti abortion clinics UM that present themselves like options. You may remember on the subway. This dates me a little bit, but there used to be signs where like pregnant, scared, and like had a phone number. And what these are are it's the same people who protest outside clinics UM.

Crisis pregnancy. Crisis pregnancy centers are fake clinics. And what they do is they try to convince you, to convince you'd either keep it or delay you until you legally can't get an abortion in your state. And there's already for in many states, so many tax tactics that delay you. As it is that like you wander into one of these clinics, you know, fake clinics, thinking that you're getting help and like actual unbiased opinions, and they're strategically making

you How does someone tell the difference? But a clinic that's going to do that and a clinic that can actually help you. One of the things that you can do is take a look at their website. If they talk about post abortion syndrome, they're a non abortion clinic that is a made up fake thing. If they tell you your abortion abortion might give you breast cancer, they are not a real clinic. That is fake and a lie. Um. If they talk about pre abortion counseling but not actually

about abortion care, they are not a real clinic. Um. But also you can always check against something like the nav National Abortion Pederation website to see if this is listed as one of their clinics. So say you've now found an actual provider and you're like, ship, now I have to pay for it. You might need to go in seventy two hours in advance and have a first appointment. Some states have waiting periods. You don't need to wait to buy a gun, but you gotta wait to have medicine. So, um,

initial consultation, you drive like hundreds of miles. Let's say you know two, you have that initial consultation, then in some states the same physician has to see you for again the actual abortion, but not until three days later. So imagine like you have you already have children, right, because take your time. People who have abortions, by the way, are very often women who already have to already mothers already have children, you know, So like, what do you

what do you do for childcare? What do you do for taking time off? During that time? Do you sleep in your car? We know you know their people who tell these stories all the time. The later the later you wait to get a procedure. It also gets exponentially more expensive because the medicine behind your changes at six weeks. I don't know if you guys had a medication abortion or a physical one, but you can do either. A medication abortion is literally taking some pills and going home. Yeah,

I think I have the same. My body had something almost identically to Plan B S to a medication abortion, where I was right, don't enjoy this at all. I think I have something something. You had a physical procedure, surgical and medical. Yeah, surgical is yeah, so there's a medical abortion, which is the pills. Oftentimes it's referred to a surgical but that implies like cutting. Okay, yeah, that it was like a vacuum. I think. So all make a face. So you have to go, you have to

maybe you have to wait. Maybe you have to hear a state mandated script the full of medical and accuracies, because states passed those laws where the doctor has to read you a thing and then be like none. If this is true. I had to tell you that because the state mandated that I tell you that, UM, And then you get the procedure. You may have to wait for somebody to come and pick you up because you can't leave alone, especially if you had I used to

do in high school. And then there's the question of how are you going to pay for it? If you are poor and you don't live in a state, Medicaid won't cover it, your insurance may not cover it. In New York, they are mandated to cover it at pay or they'll do a portion of it, or they'll cover a portion of it. Um. And then you have to come up with the rest. Now the resources to help you come up with the rest. There is a network of abortion funds across the country. UM. They are amazing.

They are by and large volunteer run and driven by individual donors, and they will help you pay for your abortion like a good grassroots They're they're incredible, incredible, they have they are primarily run by and I believe founded by women of color. They've existed for a long time. Some of them pay for abortion hair, some of them help with travel logistics, some of them can we talk

about National Network of abortion funds. Someone who's listening who maybe can't get pregnant but wants to help, either men listening or women that can't get whatever, how can they help in their communities? UM, I know we have escorts in some places. I don't know what it was called that I did, but basically, if I was free, I would call the planned parent wouldn't be like yo, if anybody needs help, and they would call me back. Like it wasn't even a real sign up thing. There was

no real place to do this. I was sixteen, I just got a license, maybe like online. I don't know, but I'm sure there is now. Yeah, basically I would go and they would just have me meet the girl like maybe an hour before, and then I would drive them. And even when I was sitting in the parking lot, people would go off because I knew what I was doing. They've seen before. So there's a lot of different ways people can be involved in this. UM. The baseline is

making this a decision point. You're voting and not voting for anti choice politicians, not just at the presidential level, not at just at the federal level, but at the state level and local level. State elections. Um, there are a lot of places that need your money. The abortion funds and they exist in every part of the country rely exclusively on grassroots dotations. So you are helping someone

pay for their abortion care, I'll reach out for sure. Yeah, And um, the other pieces to talk about it, Um, I'm part of why I was so excited to come here is because healthcare is an important part of being sex positive, and worshion is part of having set. UM. And I'm so excited that we're talking about this, and You'm so glad that our listeners are gonna like I've learned so much literally just sitting across from you in

the last hour. Um. And I'm sure just even our listeners like they'll be able to do more further research

on their own. And for any of our listeners who are having, you know, the struggles psychologically or with the people in their life, like pressuring them to either have one or not have one, genuinely just listening to this episode and hopefully making the decision for themselves, I feel like there's going to be someone who listens that it's like, Oh, you're just basically acting like aborson is not a big deal. Much like our HIV episode when people were like, yeah,

you guys make it that and hurt bees. You make it not like a big deal. But I feel like out of everything that we've ever covered, abortion is the most not like normal. You said it was normal in the which has been a king to the league, like it's we've both had it. I can't address these statistics on that, but I just don't know. I don't know how many people, Like four people have Okay, has anyone in this room ate ship? No, but three of us had there. We go, all right, you know my dog does.

But oh my god. Pink Flamingos is a John Waters movie featuring Divine who was a drag queen and she eats ship in it. Hello, that's the only drag queen movie right now on Classic Oh, del delve into the world of John Water and eating ship. You guys been in the Box, Well, I've been to the Box, but not doing one of their shows. It's it's here and so it's a lesque show show, but like, yeah, it's really out there. I actually saw Sophie Turner, who has

sons from Games from there, and I lost it. I'm like, what is she good? Because if she here, I need to be here. It is very yeah one of those venues. Yeah yeah, yeah, it's to the lower east side, right, So I go. And the second act that I saw was like a fake toilet coming out and I don't know if it was real ship or not, but he

definitely wasn't real. He smeared all over himself. The third person I saw that came out and put a water bottle inside of a pussy and like squirted in the audience pete and like or like squirted into like a person like drink. It was great, you guys gotta go. Yeah. So they you look at the Yelp reviews, you'll either see five stars or people five nobody's like, you know, I didn't expect whatever nobody feels like about it. The one other thing I wanted to say, I think, and

we hear this a lot with abortion. We hear this with like sexual harassment and rape and all of the things that impact women and other people who aren't straight men. Basically, they you'll often hear men say like I don't know anybody that's happened to I don't know anybody has had abortion. And but it's also like those conversations have you actually tried to have you know a man that's had have one with the right your homeboy then made a bitch

having abortion, but you don't know your friends. Ask your male friends, ask your female friends. If you're gonna do it, you have to be prepared to like actually have that conversation and not be an asshole about it for sure, and be genuinely interested in hearing from your friends. But

talk about it. You'll learn. Talk to your mom comfortable with like talking to your mom about it, Talk to your aunts, talk to your you know, like other elders and your family who could who would probably be like a little bit more inclined to have the conversation because

they know that you're not going to get it. Asked about abortion with when we were I went to see your roar with it like last week and um my mom and I are having a conversation on Georgia and like you know, we're talking about learning stuff and whatever, and I'm like, Grandma, did do you ever have an abortion? And she was like just look and she's like I

don't think I could have got it. And I'm like, oh, if my mom is in the car, mind she had three fucking kids, and I'm like, this is awkward, but also, like she was saying to me, she was like, and even if I could, She's like, but I've had enough money, Probably not, I would have been in the same place. And that's the sad thing about it then, So maybe not, which makes it significantly less safe, you know, which is

what they're trying. Like just just if abortion if these bands go through, which hopefully, I don't want to talk about, how do unsafe What is an unsafe abortion? We all know about a fucking hanger, but that sounds very like you thrown down the stairs like those probably on the what is the most realistic as it did drink? Someone takes like how are women culturally having unsafe abortions? Like in what way? Well today, so there's a couple of ways. Um,

they're having a procedure done by someone who isn't licensed. Um, and they're doing that because they can't access the care and be available to them. Turned out by the way third world countries, Ireland, just an abortion become legal like that ship is really if you couldn't afford to fly

out what you want. Yeah, I just want to be clear that, like the reason people don't access like the provision of medical care is usually because there are barriers put in place, so they perhaps ordering pills on the internet, which can be more or less safe depending on the pills. There are herbal remedies which are more or less safe. Some of them have been used for really essentially have a safe miscarriage quote unquote, well, there's no means of

deciphering between the two. If you like went to the hospital afterwards, they can't tell if it's safe if you've

had an abortion or if you're miscarrying. Okay, But then there are places and I'm forgetting what country it was, it was in South America where they were dealing with an abortion ban, and activists were circulating videos teaching women how to throw themselves in front of a bus it looked like an accident to terminate their pregnancies, or how to trip and fall super human right, how to how to physically induce a miscarriage because they couldn't access abortion.

That's insane. Literally, this shouldn't never be the measures that women have to resort to. Listen, if the answer is you have to take herbs, then it worked for thousands of years, Like okay, fine, Like that's not ideal, but like, all right, but to have to cause physical harm to yourself, and people take top beats, they drink bleach, which really doesn't work. Those things are not connected, but people are pretty unaway. Bodies were a movie precious, that's right. She

had an abortion by some like neighborhood doctor Lady. That movie came with a while ago, but I do remember that was the first time I had kind of watched it like that and had questions for myself and when I was dancing that but that was the shout out to New Paul. Yeah, I want to read um before we get out of here. Our homemail this week again is from one of our listeners who shared her abortion experience. She says, Hey, y'all, I just want to start by

saying I love y'all. I listened faithfully every week and was so happy to hear you guys mentioned abortion. Here's my story. I was fourteen when I had an abortion. I had only had sex eight times and knew nothing about what I was doing. I was a freshman in high school sneaking around with a nineteen year old senior. He was the star of the football team, and he made me feel special. Eventually, we stopped having sex because I found out he had a whole girlfriend, not a

half one, a whole one. Fast forward, I start throwing up all day long after every meal. I can't make it through basketball practice anymore. I sleep all day long, and all of a sudden, I can't see my feet in the shower anymore. One morning, one morning, I threw up after I had breakfast, and my mom straight up asked me if I was pregnant. I hadn't told anyone but my big sister that I was having sex, so I was in shock, but I was honest. I told her I didn't know. Her reaction was what any black

mother's reaction would be. She was pissed. She called my dad, stepmom, and stepdad, and they made me explain everything. My dad called the whole team. My dad called me a hot I don't know, maybe maybe my dad called me at home. My stepmom told me this baby was going to ruin my life and they were going to let it. They then made me take them over to the house. His mom was there, but he wasn't, and she basically acted

like she didn't care. Then they made me call him and he told my parents it wasn't his and he didn't know me. Oh my god, God, he was the only person I had ever had sex with. So then my parents were really pissed. They made me call and tell my grandparents, and they told everybody else. I felt so ashamed, but at the same time, I still didn't really know no much. For that night, I was at my dad's house and got a call for my mom.

She had her first child at eighteen. She told me she's seen me make so many of the same mistakes that she did, but she didn't want this to be one of them. She asked me if I had wanted to keep it. I was honest and said no, I was a baby. What was I going to do with a baby? She told me we didn't have to tell

anybody and she would take care of it. Right. I didn't grow up with a lot of money, but my mom took the rest of her income tax money and paid for the doctor's visit where we found out I was eight weeks along and the and they took care of the abortion. She gave me the chance that nobody else wanted to. Now I'm in college grad, I'm a teacher, and I'm influencing more girls like me not to make the same mistakes. It really hurts sometimes to see people

openly speak against something they could never understand. All shout from the mountaintops that a woman should have the right to choose what she does with her body. Thanks for my eyes are watering reading that. But I'm also really emotional right now with my anxiety. But dude, because I just that was messed out. You are already the four team if you don't even think you're pregnant, you're that oblivious and everyone everyone's letting him off the hook like

it's not a big deal. It's not a big deal. I'm not wishing bad on nobody, but yesabok and just see and if he ain't, let's all rejoice. Email us.

You know that was But also again, as a woman like you, feel the shame from every The kid was probably scared to his parents, who sure you know, mom, who knew, who knew, and who knew that she also had to hide that from all of those other people, you know what I mean, And that's what it becomes like this roal, intergenerational like trauma that gets passed down and it doesn't. I get frustrated because it doesn't have to.

But also for any of any for anyone who's a mother of a teenage daughter for her first response to be to call everyone in the family without first having that conversation where her, Because now even though you did take her to have the abortion, everyone knows she was pregnant.

How you think the baby just disappeared? So without even saying, hey, I want to take her to get an abortion, it's wanting to shame, but a lot of I was recently talking to the lady when I was getting my hair braided, and she was like, we watched this woman embarrass her kid in the hair song, right, And I was like,

as gonna say, it's like a lesson, right, Yeah. Now, my mom had done a few things to try to embarrass me, Like I think I was really young, and like I made front of this girl about what she was wearing, so my mom wouldn't let me wear my certain things. I was a kid as an element elementary school, but I understood that lesson. To me, that's a value, right, It's like I still have clothes to wear to school, but it's not what I wanted. That was her way

of letting me feel it. When parents try to embarrass kids like I really don't believe it's this transformative justice at all, Like it's degrading as fun. My sister soul something one time and my mom turn it literally made her back. I got difference from versus like telling everyone's like to own up to. In this girl's scenario, she had, what that's not a thing you have to own up to. That's the thing you do, and that's an okay choice in the rate, right, So it's not like stealing is

wrong depending on who you're stealing. A lot of you might be hearing this age fourteen and like all high school, but high school, I mean that's the age one of the y and one of the things that we also advocate for. Obviously, abortion is sort of our centerpiece, like that is the thing, but it's also the thing that's most under attack. Access to contraception is so important and

harder than it should be. Um. But the other thing is that sex said in this country is like you know, if you're at a public you know who's providing some of that sex said in some schools, those fake clinics. Governments are bringing them in to do abstinence only education. So there's a real need to reform that. It's something that should be like a K through twelve learning experience. You're not going to send a kid to college and be like, do calculus if you didn't teach them how

to count in kindergarten. But we're sending kids off graduating out of high school and being like, you need to understand consent, You need to understand your body under not wanting your kid to be in sex. You have to get permission to be able to teach it to kids. And a lot of the legislators love to say, well, parents really want to teach that at home. No, they know they didn't learn it themselves, Like they don't know how to conversation. And we wouldn't have such a consent

problem in this country if that was true. And get pregnant only like my mom told me, Like I just didn't ask those specifics right right, Well, like my mom told me about sex. My mom told me how I can get pregnant, like I got to use a condom, birth control, things like that. But I still really was like, yo, pa swallow, never know baby gonna swim down connected. But people don't know that. They don't people don't get taught that.

Do you guys have any sort of emails or anything that we would be able to let our listeners know if they have any questions to you or I guess we can go ahead and also just shout out on before we get out of here, the places that they could do outreach to UM and maybe find the answers they want regarding the laws that are going cover from thing now. I don't know if you did when I was in the bathroom the effects of too many like

is there a two high number? No? No, but we talked about it not affecting the reproduction and also like, so it doesn't affect the reproduction, right, what are the statistics that we are fucking seeing like that? Like we sat in this episode, Mandy heard it, I said, no way, googled it and it came up like it was fucking gospel, Like are there studies that are like it? Could could there be a false about fertility? Yeah? Fertility the one

thing that I would really really not like. So okay on that episode again, I keep going back to it. When you guys talked about it, you pulled something up and started reading. In my head as I'm listening, I'm like, what is this source? What is the website? Is this Wikipedia, is it? Pro life dot com? Is it? You know what I mean? Like, where are people finding information? People

update Wikipedia? They can just go in there and the update anything one of the things, um that is just coming out in particular, And this isn't fully the same thing, but um, in the last year and a half, studies of the Facebook algorithm show that in particular, anti abortion stories get lifted up in social media more than other sources. So life news gets like elevated in shares of life news. Get life news dot com, which is they're not good

life news dot com. Okay, not a good source. It's ironic, right, like life sounds like a good thing. Inevitably, if you were reading about reproduction and there's the word life in the title, it is almost always an anti abortion source. So um, there's lots of resources out there that makes sense, right and that I actually shout out to an EQUO used to work with. She sent an article to me this morning on this. Right wing sources dominate abortion related

news on Facebook. Sixt of links and se Facebook um posts are coming from right leaning like this is again this is something honestly, don't even get it anymore, Like I unrelated but like posted a picture with the girl I'm dating and I kissed her. You wouldn't believe the amount of fake pages that like has ship to say about. I literally talked about eating a cream pie out of someone before, but seeing me kiss this girl on Instagram

was too fucking too far. Certain that we have for other people and their bodies, the concern that men have, it's it's all it's all about control, it's all about Um, this is where I start to sound like a little cookie, but like, it's it's all about a system of oppression. Um, you're talking to POC and we're women. Like, there's all sorts of systems in place to keep non white people oppressed, right, you know, all sorts of voter suppression, redlining, like every

horrible racist policy that exists in this country. Right, There's all sorts of systems in place to keep gay people oppressed. There's all sorts of systems to keep women oppress. All of the systems are in place to keep everybody except

for straight white men oppressed. Design and it's my design, right, It's on purpose, And they're freaking out right now, and all these laws are passing right now because women are standing up, because gay people are standing up because because black people are standing up and they're scared because we're making a lot more progress than we ever have. Right. So there's a ton of resources out there. Organization. I mean, I will put in a plug for our website, which

is UM and I are health dot org. And if you're interested in like the local level laws that are being passed, what's going on at that level, it's a great place. VP. We ain't gotta ask nobody else. We come a right, you just call me Daniel name. You will not be the first person just call me now that I'm also everyone's aunt who like they're like, oh hey, my kid needs to ask you a question, like all right, hey, and and I'm like, okay, well you remember when your

mom was pregnant. Okay, let's start there. UM. So we have a lot of information on the local stuff that's happening. There's an organization called bedsider that if you're trying to find the right contraception for you, they're an excellent resource.

Everything that's like laid out really nicely. Some other non hormonal besides I do the rhythm method, you use a diaphram, some um any other ones that maybe are it's really once you're doing non hormonal, you're talking about physical barriers, right, so a diaphermo or cervical care, both things that go inside you. A non hormonal I U D or or condoms and tracking um. There are a ton of hormonal methods that work really well for people, but you do sometimes have to find the one that works for you.

The first pill that your doctor puts you on might not be the best one for your body. May not be. And that's why I stopped, Like I just I didn't like taking a pill every day, and I felt crazy, and I didn't want to take the effort to go through finding already acquired crazy. Not to mention when I got the depot. I remember coming back and like, hey, I gained weight, and he was like, yeah, the depot didn't make you gain weight. Maybe your appetite went up.

And I was like, probably because of the depot, believe it or not. But you are not the first person who had that explained. It was such a Remember there was the thing that came out where they had been working on hormonal birth control for men, but the side effects was just too much, and the side effects were like bloating and like remember that I was like, only try every month you got bloated, take the pill. Man. If men I would get pregnant, we all would not

be sitting here right now. We would not be having this conversation. Y'all. Motherfuckers need to go ahead. There's bout of control for men too. So if y'all are out here not wanting a baby, but y'all want to sit here and keep sucking bitches all, there are vasectomes or very easy procedures. They are out patients them. I know I'm talking to a lot of men who have vasectomies.

The second may rates go up during whatever the best whatever the basketball thing is, college basketball thing, March madness really because they during March bad time and they have to take three days off and they can watch basketball tea. We want to true, but one would be good for us.

Then literally any day you get to sit at home, Yeah, I don't even I feel like we always go ahead and do it liber day week in a Memorial weekend when you don't have to take a day off of work because they pay, you know, during a long weekends where it's different because they're like, we have to take days off work for a vasectomise so we can watch March Randness and you're like, I don't want to chakeboy jays.

Can I start one more little bit of outrage if you want to get a tub bulligation as a as a woman is getting your tubes tied, getting your tubes tied, it's really like a lot of times if you're not a certain age, haven't happen. They will freshure you and like, you know how many women I know who have who had conversations with their doctor and they're like, I just don't feel right about it because you're still a child bearing.

So my mom has her tubes tied. So that was a conversation I've had with her, and she got it after my youngest sister. There's three of us, and they still we're trying to even though she had, you know, kind of thoughts of even writing the third one because of financial reasons, they still almost were like trying to tell her She's like, I'm done. I think I would

know for kids. She's like no, And she had you know, her male partner if they were to walk in, no problem, No questions asked, when do you need a schedule, which is what happened to neil Um and Monetta. I believe it's his ex wife. She she agreed to have the her tubes tied um and now he has a baby with someone else. So that's yeah, that w kumal Bell just did an episode where he broadcast his sect to me.

He was like, this is how I'm I'm this is what I'm bringing to our relationship, Like we're done having kids and she doesn't want to be on the pill anymore, so I'm going to get a second me and he like broadcasted. But also this is something that again like abortion needs to be a conversation. A friend of mine, her partner when I got off a sect to me

without letting her know. Um and so again, even even those conversations, if you are in a relationship and your partner may or may not be complete with having children, that's also again another conversation that you need to have with your partner if you should be if you're in a relationship you should be making if you change decisions that you can adopt all those fucking crazies out there who are convincing us to keep them forcing motherhood. You

can adopt those kids if you change your mind. So I want to thank um once again, Danielle and Lacey for coming to the horribless pots having this conversation, and we hope that all of you guys not only learned something, but got a couple of lasts and there it wasn't is planning, but you know, we're just trying to educate you all. Again. We're sitting across the table um from two professionals and Weezy and I are taking in and learning um every episode that we do with this podcast,

So we want to do your research. Guys. UM, there were a lot of good tips in here, and again we're gonna put the information not only in the description of this episode, but on our patron on our Patreon, I do want to give a huge shout out as well to our patrons. As you guys know, for an additional five dollars a month up to fifteen Dallas, you guys can get three bonus episodes per month and those

are dropped. If you guys are all caught up with all one hundred plus episodes, we are sitting in a vault of about another forty almost UM, so check out our bonus episodes, become a Patreon because we are an eight teen plus community. You do have to type in Patreon dot com backslash Horrible Decisions And as always, we're gonna leave you with a clip from one of our

bonus episodes. At the end of this episode. Um, we want to thank again Lacy, We want to thank again Danielle for coming in dropping them knowledge Box, thank you for all of that. And again with condoms, y'all with condoms. Um, but once again this has been yet another episode of Horrible Decisions by They identify as straight. Some of them even have wives, they have children, they have whole families. No, they don't like the they like getting head from guys,

and they don't they don't. They don't look at oral sex as full sex with the man and he says it all the day. Do's like dog, these niggers just want me to head. They just want head from men. And I've met a lot of men that actually like that. And so it's like they won't sure, but they won't identify as gay, questionable by curious They're like none, I'm straight, but they like getting head from guys. And Nicold has

went to Evard like midnight talking about night. Oh, she talks about you know, I don't know, there's a guy speaking in the book about the Jaws. He was like stronger, Like they do have stronger. Yeah, the next one, and it's non binary. So you guys might hear this one a lot. Um. It's a gender identity and experience that embraces a full universe of expressions in ways that of being that resonate for an individual. It might be an active resistance to binary gender expectations. And by the way

that sentence, an active resistance. What is that I say non binary when I want to piss people off? What is non binary? Um? Right now? Because so it means that you don't conform to any of them. It's gender nonconforming, like we just oh, so, well not a man, I'm not a woman. But it's not sexuality because so we

just had a coe and gender. Oh's gender okay, because I was gonna say, we just had a couple on and we asked them their sexuality and they were like, well, they didn't want to say straight, they didn't want to say by, they didn't want to say anything. They were just like we just to me, But okay, I think they just didn't know how to identify. I don't think it's like but this is so gender but gender, so we gotta remember gender and sexual orientation are two different things.

For example, Chris Jenner, I mean Chris Jenner, Caitlyn Jenner would be ambian or queer. So lesbians are not female. Lesbian is woman attracted to woman. But so here's my thing, trans identify as women. So can you not say that there that Caitlyn Jenner is the lesbians, you know, the different to women and female. Yes, for those of you who aren't listen, who are listening and you get a little confused. Actually, when Sam White came and he was like when guys say female, and he was like, oh,

you're truping. Remember that, I get it. I get female describes you by your genitalia, your gender, that it was assigned at birth. Women is how you identify, like I identify as a woman. Um, so apparently Caitleen Jenner is lesbian. But lesbian is women attracted to women, not female attracted to female. So yeah, um, but I think it's queer because she's try but whatever, whatever it was. The next one omni sexual. Okay, this is new a person who

has attracted to people from across the gender spectrum. I think this is what I am. Similar to pan sexual omni sexual, people recognize potential partners, genders are attracted to all genders and make decisions about partners based on their gender. So maybe I'm only sexual Beach. I know I've said pant sexual before, but I think it's a live because when I'm women, so in those pay and sexual people say they're like, oh, it just doesn't matter. It doesn't matter.

Now I'll be looking at just for who they are. Same. I ain't gonna always look at like hair, the nape of the neck, lips, like hips, like I definitely is there is there like, um, I don't think any of Oh I guess there is one. Maybe no, So like for me when it comes to say all genders, like because I watch all types of port, I watch gay, straight,

and transport. But even when I watched transport, I'll be honest, and again I'm sorry if I have had anyone, but when I watched transport, and I want them to be super feminine looking but with big old dicks, and I have a problem with the don't have what you want. So this isn't a I didn't do pant sexual or polly for this one because we discussed it with um MARSI je maybe, but anyway, passing is also gay slang. It's the act of being perceived by others this one's

preferred identity. Now imposed did you watch POK I meant to watch it. I know they talk about there's an electro whose imposed makes comments to this other call. She's like, she's like, you're just mad because I'm passing and you're not. I can pass. I could go to Bergdwarf and they're gonna wait on me. They won't do it for you, like they were using that as like a I mean,

I'm not gonna lie. Shout out to Jamie Paris who came on the show Beautiful Mitch, and I'm considered a quote unquote passing and and that's what the funds you probably have a problem with you right now. So I just I just feel like you're dramatic because this bitch really just pulled out her and hailer. We're not smoking weed. It's not about the is it? Because this room isn't closed? No, I fucking went. I just near not in workout clothes.

So what did you do that? You just had your It's not always like I don't have to be doing something in the moment. Sometimes it could just be like backed up from later. I don't know, Mandy. I felt like I really I was listening this show. Wasn't I wheezing. I was starting to hear it. I didn't hear a bit. You don't have your headphones on.