EP 425: The Contract to My Polyamory (Ft. Jerrie Johnson)

Welcome to Decisions Decisions.

I don't think you should say decision decisions.

It sounded like you was talking to Kirsty. You definitely say to welcome, Welcome to the new podcast.

May you want to say together, decisions decisions?

Mike check, Mike check? Is this thing on?

Hey, guys, we are exactly one week out from the release of our book, No Holds Barred, a dual manifesto of sexual exploration and power written by yours truly, your girl Mandy B and we ZWTF And I wanted to let y'all know you have the chance to meet us, keep your book signed, and experience guided conversations with us about this book.

And so I'm about to ring off the date to you, guys.

Hopefully we're able to see you so on June twenty third, virtually we are doing another talk shop live where you can literally join us and ask us anything you'd like about the book.

While also ordering it. You get a signed.

Version of the copy from our talk Shop Live event. June twenty fourth at seven pm. We are at the Word Bookstore in Brooklyn, New York, with a guided conversation. June twenty fifth, at seven pm. Come and get your signatures.

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June twenty sixth at seven pm, we are at Solid State Books in Washington, d C. And then join us as well June twenty seventh at five pm in New Haven Pride Center. That's New Haven, Connecticut. And then twenty ninth Atlanta joe Ja three pm. You can join me and some good friends for a conversation as well as book signing.

And La Weezi is not leaving you hanging.

July second, at seven pm she will be at Reparations with Shan Boudram.

Really really, really excited to have you guys.

Join us on this monumental week of our book release, No Holds Barred. Go to our Instagram page, get your tickets or put it in your calendars to pull up to these bookstores to meet us in person again during the week of our release of No Holds barn We cannot wait to see you there. Welcome everybody to another episode of DC.

The y'alls, The City, y'alls. It's your girl, maybe b a Ka dat Beach. It's weazy.

We're having another three so with somebody from Survival of the Ticket.

We have.

We have actress Jerry Johnson from Harlem and Survival of the Thickest and a lot more. But I do want to talk about your two roles there. So that's what you could sit and watch. Now, are they They're both on One is on Netflix, one is on.

Hulu, Amazon Prime, Amazon Prime Prime Video Prime.

There we go, Prime Video. Welcome Jerry to the plot. I've been trying to make this happen for a very long time.

Since last year.

I'm well, No, I met Jerry through both of our male friends or mutual friends.

Yes, So we all went out one night.

After it was Paddle of the Sexes, Yes, And so we go to I don't even remember some bar. We drinking, and everyone at the table's kind of having their own conversations, and I think, I don't even know what the fuck it she was talking to, but I end up getting into deep talks. Wait this one right here, and I was like, oh my god, I think I love you, but I don't love you because you're a taking woman and I'm gonna respect that. But also we have to bring you onto the show to talk about all things.

A label if you align with any I am the Jerry Johnson.

I identify as a non binary person. But any respectable pronouns work for me.

Queen. Mostly you know, I am currently engaged.

I am polyamorous, so we are open and.

I'm a lot of things. We can get into things that I've heard about.

So I haven't gotten to watch Harlem resp yet but found this picture. I have to show it to me because this photo got sent to me three times, one spy Brianda, one spy, two random fans. And it was the first time I came across your page. Someone said, why are you and Mandy kissing in this photos?

Oh my god, stop it.

Very and I was like, my hair is dark right now, but this time my hair we look at Jerry is Wow.

That ship was so fucking it's cool. Let's be let's be very clear. I am sent every light skin to light brown skinned woman with short blonde hair and some ass.

It was to you blonde, then the brain it was like it was literally our hol asthetic always. Then the second thing was my partner watches Harlem, so I was like.

Oh, we're having this girl on it.

Before I could say it, he was like, oh, don't want to be fucking bitchous.

And I was like I love that. Wow, what do you know?

And he was like m I was like, ooh, this is one where she fucking his lady and then she go downstairs and she was sucking the daughter too, and she just out here in the show.

I mean she was living player ship. I was like, ow, mind you.

The only reason he started watching the show he told me a woman that he dated previously hit him up and said hey, because I think he told some previous partners like I have a girlfriend now whatever. She was like, you need to watch Harlem because Kofi like uses the same language like Kofe like talks to talk Boks.

Which I told them. I was like, we need a polyamorous storyline.

Wait, you got that out of the writer.

I was like, yes, I wanted Tie to re poly but then when I read the script, I was like, oh, Okay, this this works out, yeah because it because it also gives Quinn a new thing to battle with. But yeah, when we had the after season two, we had the conversation about like what kind of things you want to see, and there were some things like meeting my family that we just didn't have time to do. But I was like,

So basically basically found out people were calling my nigga coke.

So we could blame Harlem then for him going on the press run talking about his non monography because he did it was but maybe I don't know if he

I want to play everything. I can play everything here.

I think this happens to be like, you know, people saw me as tie and then they felt like they you know, it feels like the if you're looking for this kind of person, like you know she can do that, right, And I think.

But Tracy took a chance.

You know, I was fresh out of grad school, you know, and so and I was doing plays right, But now it's like people don't know that I'm a stage actor first because they haven't seen that. And so it's really about like who in the industry is willing to take the chance for you to do something different? And where is it like, oh, well, we need somebody who we know can do this thing, so we're going to hire you to do that thing because we know you can do it.

It's great sexual Sorry for anyone listening, Mandy and I aren't looking at each other for being queer, being whatever you identify as, but just sexually fluid. Do you think that it kind of plays up and is a plus for when you're looking for certain roles. Do you think it's a look or do you think it's actually that you live that lifestyle.

I think it's both.

I think so when I talked to Tracy about why I was the first one to be hired for Harlem, And when I talked to Tracy about she was like, do you know why we hired you?

And I was like no.

Apparently, when I came into the room for the producer session, I was flirting with their assistance, but I was so thin, I was so encaractered that I didn't notice. But they was cute, you know. I was giving them, you know, a little bit longer handshakes, like you know, what's up?

You look? You know what I mean. I'm not even you know, I'm not even thinking about it.

And I mean before I even said the words on the page, Tracy knew, like, this is our Tie, and she thought that Tie would be the hardest person to cast because she didn't see anybody with that same aesthetic in the industry.

We had the conversation with Tone about his sex scenes, and often you could hear actors talk about their heterosexual sex scenes, right, and then we've heard male actors and their uncomfortability if they're heterosexual in real life and have to play out gay scenes, what.

Is it like for you?

And what are the conversations between you and women that may or may not be bisexual or or lesbian and having to do gay scenes and kiss, Like, what are those scenes.

Like for you?

I know they're comfortable for you, but what is the conversation well with the other person that's in the scene with you.

It's interesting because I have.

Yet to have a sex scene on screen with an actual queer person it's queer woman. Really, nobody that I've been intimate with on screen has been queer.

What about when you were watching did you watch Black Mirror with Raa? Yes? That made me feel like, wow, you're not gay. It makes a difference. Even a white girl was a little more. It does make a little bit of a difference.

And so for me, I always have the conversation of like, hey, like, let me know what makes you feel comfortable, let me know what doesn't make you feel comfortable. My interest is for this to be as authentic as possible, and so there are things that I would or would not do that Like, sometimes I watch queer sex scenes and I'm like, bro who did this?

What are you doing? You know? I'm like where a strap beck didn't.

Where we yet where you can maybe tell us like that you saw that's a popular scene where you're like this is fake as fun.

No. But I was watching.

The new generation L Word and I was like, there was a sex scene in there that I was like.

Oh, okay, what made me feel like?

I got to have so many conversations with myself when I was younger, yes, and.

The new one fucked me up? What about it? And what was the scene?

It was like she was I think she was going down on her something and it just wasn't It just didn't feel it didn't feel right, Like it was like, huh, I don't know if this necessarily like maybe it was too easy or maybe there was no other component right, and it just didn't feel like.

It didn't feel like you know the thing.

About that L word that felt real for me all the hands Like there were times where I would say I was having sex with somebody and people be like, you're not in sex sex, you're just doing this or if you're paying like, or if you're using your hands, and it would make me feel so invalidated. When I was younger, because I thought that really was sex for us.

No, no have Is there any scenes currently on TV where a strap has even been shown. I have advocated for the strap to be hanging up on the ball so many times they're like, so just tell me like the like the thought process behind it. The thought is that I used it and that when queer people see it, they're gonna be like, oh, okay, I'll see.

What you did there.

You know, it's it's a little bit of a level of recognition, even if you don't have to see me putting it on, you know, just that they bumping cheese, right. I enjoy that, But I'm not doing that all the time my days.

In my closet, does your say on your headport?

Where do you put it?

I have a basket okay, yeah, I have a bag sizes same same.

I just showed.

I just showed my boyfriend one that I have, and he was like, it was King Noirs.

He was like, no, okay, it was oh no, let me, let me tell you.

I don't even know if I shared this on on a podcast yet.

His parents live in Europe.

So he just got me a refrigerator from my room because I live upstairs and downstairs and I'll be tired and lazy and don't want to go downstairs beet water.

So he's showing his dad the little refrigerator.

There was a dildo, a white glass and condoms on top of the fridge and he's he was like, oh wow, y'all were And so he had to tell me that his dad saw the fucking dildo on the goddamn motherfucking refrigerator.

And it was funny. And I was gay gay. My mom saw everything. Girl was a little too much. There was a suction cup dildo I had that I would hang necklaces on. She was gay gay. I just have a man.

Now I've been making jokes. Now I'm just half gay. So no, and I was gay, My mom was.

She was almost so overwhelmed she used the dilto to hang necklaces on.

It was just I had so many at that point it was just fun. So I stuck one on the wall. The necklace is there, and she came into my house and she said.

You guys are balls to no balls.

And I think the questions that she had were so interesting because she wanted to know so much how I wasn't missing anything, like I was dating women for most of my life, but only her. She was just like and I could tell my mom would have three little vod because he's sitting there sap. It was very difficult for me to talk about it with her. And I think it's because talking about men with a woman that's straight, it's easy.

But like, oh, yet I have yet to talk to my mom about being with women, even though I be fucking women. And what's crazy is my experience with a strap is I've only been strapped once by a woman, my ex girlfriend when I lived in Miami, and bitch, I do this strapping only on men, so like, my.

Oh, you know what I mean. So my experience with that is that.

And I love that you, as an actress who can be so vocal for representation on screen, is able to try to at least advocate for these little subtleties of what our life really looks like in real life but also on the paper, because I think even when I'm seeing them acting it out, there's ways in which we talk women to women that's different than heterosexual relationships as well.

So I just love that.

I know we talked a lot about Harlem. But what was it like working with Tasha Smith?

Right?

Yes, Tasha is great, Tasha is funny, and all of our aunties have been that for our whole lives.

Yeah, how was that? You know?

She came into the room, like, why y'all know we about to do this hairset scene.

And she got her little wrong that she you know what I mean.

But then you know, when we're in the back, she said, but you're gonna have to tell me, right, you know, you're gonna have to let me know. And so she went and she got over me, and I'm like, we ain't even get there yet. You know, we gotta you pull up the leg, you know, you gotta make sure the puzzle pieces work right so that it looks like, you know, we really going there, and maybe y'all slide down, you know, so I can get up in there. Because it's supposed to be like such a such.

A beautiful experience.

For her that she gets so emotionally overwhelmed that she has to leave. And so I'm like, we want I want also the audience to feel like, oh, I know what happened.

You know what I mean?

Even if we can't show everything, we have to do a little bit of the.

New battling with her sexuality essentially, right, it's.

Her battling with power really, like not wanting, not wanting to be vulnerable enough to like let a person see you, know when you have that good set you like who I just want to cry and hug you and keep you and all of this stuff. And I have to go because I don't know where to put these emotions. And so I think it's more about like the emotional arc of Marley always being the one who can put her energetic dick on the table, who can pay for whatever needs to be paid for.

And now she's meeting this woman who is not only.

Beautiful and smart and has her own funds, She's gonna fuck you Lood too.

How do you how do you differentiate as a person from the characters you've played.

I feel like ty Is. I feel like maybe both of the characters are lesbian. I don't know in the fire as a lesson. I'm gender fluid and sexually fluid.

You know, I will dig.

But but I think I think also there is a lack of emotional availability with Tie, Like there is a lot of family trauma there that just doesn't allow her to have the courage enough to go deep. And I'm a person like I lay it all out on the table, like I want you to know what you're getting into, so that you don't say, like, oh, well, I thought you don't show up with a representative basically.

And some bitches want Ties. Are you from New York? I'm from Philly, Okay, cousin, you know Georgia, I'm.

From Philly, But it is you know, it was giving that and the Philly you know they give that and so.

But but I think also.

Tie wants that type of like love and connection but also doesn't know how to get it because she's not living truthfully to her family. And that was a big thing, Like people in my family know, was it.

Easy for you to express like being that you're gender fluid sexually fluid? Was that easier to quote unquote come out to your family about so?

I so my mom she passed away in twenty nineteen. It was she was she was ready to go.

But my mom was the.

First hole I ever met space on it Jotty back Cooper.

She was before the hot girls were popular. It was a hot girl sad just kind of I kind of know. Our children say, I love that.

Probably first off we say we is hold reddit Harry around here. She's her mama said that she is a queen sucking dick like on our first live show.

Yeah, oh no, this is verbating my conversation. I was in the car with my mom I might be recorded, and she was like, how's that saying. I was like, he said, it was the best he ever had. She literally hold my hand, not joking.

I've told me this my whole life. I knew what happened. I knew it. I knew it.

There was just no way I would look at you sometimes that I would say, they're gonna be I just knew.

What did you see your mom?

She six' three, always like between like one ninety and two thirty okay, and she always towered over men. I have seven brothers and sisters. We all have different dads except for two of us. I've seen my mom one a nigga out of the house. She'd be going toe to toe with niggas. Yes, I've seen my mom fight her best friend on a cop car what they called the cops to come get her.

As she's like, I'm gonna beat your ass before they take me away.

Like truly, my mom has been on cops Twiceelesion show, the television show where I Need You, this episode where she was she was her own like and so.

So conversations about sex.

And she also was a bartender and she was she worked at the door.

Are you the queer sibling? Yes, okay, and so the only output not your brother, but she so so.

She had her schedule was she would wake up at five pm, get herself ready, take her little lxative okay, go to the bar. She'd be back at like three o'clock in the morning. If the house wasn't clean, she'd wake us all up. She was a virgo.

Even if we had school in.

The morning, we'd be up cleaning the house until it was I'm to go to school. Truly, this woman was she was. But she'd be talking about sucking dick and all of this with my aunts and stuff and then my cousins. I love y'all my sister.

Would you overhear the conversations or did she specifically come to you and your siblings with the conversation about the bird?

We weren't having birds and the bees conversations.

It was like you just got to sit there and be quiet, and they talking about what they talking about.

But it was no separation, you know, like go upstairs because we're about to talk about adult conversations. No, and and and when she got.

An Instagram page, her Instagram page was milky with two eyes okay, and she would post.

Like, you know the best dick suckers are this just that knowledge?

God, I'm thirty.

So you were the Oh my gosh, okay, well I'm thirty four, so those media I'm thinking the same age. I'm just trying to think about my mama post like, yeah, you know it was me ig videos tagging the people. My mom will comment on a bitch, just thing like look.

Like just crazy.

You were in high school, you had to see.

I was so embarrassed when I was in high school.

I was so I never wanted anybody to come to my house because my mom sometimes she only have a bra on.

Sometimes she'll take her wig off.

And put it on her knee and put her She had a towel on one knee, right, she had take the wig off, put it on her knee, put the towel. She got too hot on her head. Her hair was cut like mine. She would die her hair.

The same color.

No way, I'll say in my mind, yeah, what color if it was? She had red, whatever her hair was, I swear to God, this scotti.

What is it again? He said? What? John?

Oh?

Miss John? She an't feel like some ship.

And I love and now I see like the audacity that I have comes from my mom. But there was a time where I was like, oh my gosh, Like you can't say that in front of people.

You can't. She said, what in this movie? She wanted the one sinner than this. We have a movie on your mom. Need to be a character in one of these things.

I'd like to ask you about coming out stories, because I feel like I have friends that are gay for real, and a lot of.

This shit that we see on TV.

It's just like I'm confused, I don't know, and it's like the same troupe.

Are you kind of tired of it?

Are you kind of tired of feeling like queer storylines have to come with the coming out story.

Why is it always a part of the character.

Yes, That's what drew me to Tie was that it wasn't like, oh my god, like I'm so embarrassed about being gay, or like I have to come out to my friends and like I can't have straight friends because they're gonna think I want them. It's not that or it's like the gay character in the friend group is always questioning and confused and an artist and don't have no money. It's like all of like if you're confused about you can't write, you can't also have like a

What about like even in this moment, like you do an interview and it's the question, how often do you feel like you're talking about this story over and over to where it kind of like just muddles who you are.

I feel like I come out more as Polly than coming out as queer.

Oh that's okay.

I think that's a thing, like right now you are like, But I mean when I was in college, I had a boyfriend who was a Leo and we were.

Doing these signs girl my mama who was a virgo because they.

Was Leo. Yes, it matters, what's your sign? I'm an Aquarius?

Oh February January Okay, very compatible, right, But we were watching porn and we were watching lesbian porn and I was so turned on and he was like, you like women, and so we started dating women together.

And this was me at eighteen, nineteen years old.

You introduced it because he was comfortable with that? Or did you have to have did they have to join y'all in the bedroom? Was he able to go out?

Like?

What was the dynamic at eighteen entering your relationship Polly with a man with other women?

What did that look like?

It was most of the time we had we had sex with women together, but it wasn't like it wasn't closed to that, Like, Okay, if he as long as he told me you know exactly what it was. Like, I'm a truth person, like I can tell when somebody's lying to me. So as long as you're fully honest with me, I don't care, as long as you're being safe, like it is what it is. But most of the time we were having sex with women together.

And then I was like, how many years did that last? We were together for like four years? Oh well maybe like a soft five, so you're again yes, yes, and he was.

So it was such a like deep understanding there that I felt safe enough to like do what I needed. There wasn't any judgment, and he was curious about it too, like he wanted me to talk about it with him.

And there was he older or same age, he was the same age.

Wow, what about that relationship brought around the biggest lesson because now we know so much about open relationships, But what about that particular relationship kind of taught you something that you even used today, was.

That it's possible.

Like I have like been with monogamous people who like wanted to try polly with me. I've dated people who are like, you're just you're just Polly because you want this this and this and you want to have and if you want to just like okay, sure, but also, like I saying talking about astrology, like truly it is in my chart, like multiple partnerships is like in my chart.

To me right back.

And I know, I know you know I am a I am a siren, but I knew I know how the siren for men.

He's talking about what a siren is for people who don't know. It's like it's like little Mermaid kind of say.

I was just in San Diego and my friend Lamar is like, Jerry, you have a siren song. It's like the silent thing that you do that just draws people to you. And I know that that siren works for men.

But how do you know the difference between your siren energy versus just having an extrovertic energy being somebody that people want to be around. How do you know it's that because it's see it, But I'm just asking.

It's so I was on the plane coming back from San Diego and I'm like in my headphones and this man stops and he's like, oh.

My god, I am gay, but I want to be with you.

What is I didn't say nothing to him, I didn't do it. I didn't even look at him. But there is something about me that calls people in and a lot of times it's like it is a big responsibility because it can be used in a lot of different ways. And I am a deep impath and I care about care for people.

I care about people's feelings.

I care about people's well being, and I have a hyper sensitivity to being used and using people, which sometimes is like this double edged sword because then there are things that I might not accept because I don't want to deal with the whatever might come with the thing that is being offered to me. And so because of that, I'm like, I'm really aware of people's feelings and how

It's not just like, oh my god, you're a nice person to be around.

No, you have impacted my life and I'm gonna be thinking about you forever when if you.

Start getting comfortable. Then with realizing that same power work for women through.

My relationship with him, I was like I started to like really see, like, oh he's right, like women do like right. And but then when I moved to San Francisco, I was to say, oh, you were in.

The back the Bay area.

I mean, they were talking about all this shit before anybody was, when it was not popular. It was like, hello, my name is and my pronouns are this this? Yes, I'm a poly nominogami all of life.

Yeah, it's just.

And so to be in a to live in a bay for four years while I was in grad school really opened me up. And so I remember telling my friend like, I want to be a hoe and he was like, but you too nice.

You can't you.

Said to me, not not that, but this is what he said. He said, It's like I can't. I just I was I was a little back footed. You say, friend, I want to be a hoe?

What did that look like to you because we've had that debate tail as long as time, like since we had horrible decisions.

Huh, what's the hell do you? What's like? What did a home that meant?

Any sexual instinct or impulse that I had in any moment.

I was going to follow through with, Oh do you think you had phases of your life where even in the pursuit of hodem you felt a little guilty.

No, never felt shame. It never happened.

Well, yes, yes, because what I realized that then through that relationship that I had for four years, although it was so open in terms of being with women, I was his barbie, like I was his princess, Like I was the girl who hadn't had sex with a lot of people, and I was like, holy his So then when the so for me for women, like, I'm like, you know, I feel the freedom freedom there, but with when I would have sex with men. I remember this one guy I had sex with him and then afterwards I was like.

Oh my god, why did I do? Like I was so hard? What made what made you do? You know? What triggered that?

Really it was the like the shame of like what happens when you've been with X amount of men?

Or what does it mean to be with a man?

Or like what the the things that can happen when you are with men?

Like a lot of that started to come up.

And so then when I was like, when I was like, I want to be a hoe, which is really just like me living in my truth and my freedom, I had to dismantle all of the ideas I had about what it would look like for me me or it would make me to have.

Sex freely with men? Oh wow. And when I tell you, I remember being at this meeting with this.

Girl at this bar and this man was just giving me these blueberry drinks, and so I'm looking at him and I'm like, oh, I'm i to fuck this bartender now.

Mind you.

The bar is kind of like it's kind of like an afternoon in the bay, not that many people, and so PM and.

I'm looking on the blueberry. He just kept talking.

The way he was saying blueberry to me, I was like, he's trying to fuck blueberry.

You want it?

So then I was like, can you tell me where the bathroom is? And so he was like always downstairs on this side of the So then I'm in the bathroom. I'm like, Okay, how can I get this nigga down here so we can fuck right now in the middle of this meeting.

This girl don't even know. So then I was like, this is shit. I said, don't care.

I said, sorry, there's no tissue down there. He said, oh really, let me come show you. Then we went down there and we fucked in the freezer.

Bab you are yeah, we did.

We did and there was no And then I went back upstairs and had the meeting.

I lived for the period.

I said, Oh, okay, Jerry, Jerry, when is your book coming out?

I need the whole hold them, your entire twenties, bringing it to a motherfucking erotica bus.

You have me a fucking chapter in that.

You know, I really am curious about being someone that is I wouldn't even say lesbian presented just on your page, your girl, the shows we're seeing you in now. When you have sex with men, do you find that they're almost a little insecure?

Do they have this conquering attitude? Do you enjoy that? What is it about the male dynamics sexually that kind of gets you?

I think men are so infatuated with me they're so curious about me.

But what I find is when.

I'm just trying to fuck a nigga.

They want so much more.

And I have friends, but what that And it's like, oh no, well let's do this this first, in this first, and this first.

I'm like, I'm trying to get some you want to do.

But reverse psychology, ladies, if you treat a man like a piece of motherfucking meat days, he will literally pour his soul out of insecurities, like that's all you want.

You only want me for my dick. This is what I learned. Bro. They will literally be like, but I have more for you.

Yes, it's not also offering everything, but I find so so I feel like sometimes like either American men, either American men want to play like this sort of like game, this game of mouse, or it's like the Caribbean or the African American men who are like, you need to be my wife.

But then I went to Europe. Ship I was fucking the Europe. They're a little bit more out of Europe peeing.

I don't know what said I.

I didn't even know that's what I went to Europe to do.

You know, I was just trying to mind my bigga's all, y'all.

Want to go to get them Hungarian men?

Okay, they they hungry for the pussy, do you understand?

And they felt a little bit more like, oh, we can have our intimate moments and that just be it, Like you're not calling my phone a million times, but you know what.

You like like my encounters.

I have always been the little year travel girl, and I will tell you they're just more passionate people where we have more of a tie to, like intimacy and chemistry. Like I've had conversations with friends about kissing and how you know, maybe one of my home girls like, oh, I don't know, I kind of want to just get some dick.

I don't know.

I feel like I might need to like this nigga, bro, I can be in love with a nigga in an hour in Italy.

Yes, in Berlin, I was at Burghon y'all. Yeah, did I go to bay I went to the club here.

No, I don't know about the stuff here.

I would love to though after we should we should talk about it. But I was that and it was like the tension between it was like we were we knew that we were gonna do this thing, but we also didn't know, and it felt like more of a vamping up to the to the act as opposed to transaction, which I think like sometimes in America it can be about the transaction.

Like I'm a very passionate person.

I feel like my erotic is attached to and connected to my creativity, and so like I like sex to be created fun, to get this roll off, I feel like attached.

I don't know if I can perform no, no, no, not that it's contingent upon it.

But I do think that sex is a creative act for me that like, I'm not just like gonna be like, oh yeah, let's get it. I it's gonna be incredible, like you really like they said on hotels, you're gonna remember these.

Pussy you understand.

But I like that type of passion, and I feel like in Europe it just felt more like they were down to have that like that, not that rendezvous for a night that's really passionate and sweet.

And sexy, and it doesn't feel like exploitati weirdness with intimacy.

Think about even children, nudity, nude beaches, sexual American Yeah.

We have such when you were.

When you were in high school and you said, like I got a condom, people were like, oh my god, why have a you know, but in Europe, like it's like people you would have to carry. It was almost like shame because you having a condom meant that you were promiscuous. But it's like, but if I have sex and I don't have this condom. But that's the American conditioning as opposed to in Europe. It's like people are

You're right, you're not in your house. You asked Jeeves that I mean, actually, my mama was at work.

I was writing this nigga hair. It was at the house. But you know, the little I think I remember, I was an how.

A woman studies major in college, and we talked about this kind of stuff. We talked about how it's like even just like.

The weird shit you going on in America.

It's like because we're having conversations because parents in Europe are like, oh okay, it's Cindy coming over. Okay, you guys can go upstairs, We'll leave you alone, and so then it's a safer experience because everybody knows what's going on. We're not sneaking. If something happens, there are witnesses to know.

Like also just being that in the Western world were based off Christian views and so we even just went through a on an episode we talked about the history of sexual norms through age and it's really interesting to know that a lot of our views now actually stem from the feminist movement and us getting our autonomy back and really letting these niggas know they weird out you weird. I do want to get into our reactionary because I want to talk about your relationship just a little bit.

I'm gonna play this clip and then we'll go from there. I want to know if you agree or disagree.

At the age of fifty four and two divorces later, let me give you the marriage advice I wish that I had listened to. Love is not enough. Married for character, not just chemistry.

You're not just.

Marrying them, You're marrying their habits, their debt, and their family drama. Marriage will never fix loneliness. The wrong person will make it worse, you can't marry potential. You're not a life coach. Your spouse. Being alone is way better than wishing you were. The right person will make you feel safe. The wrong one will make you feel small. We'll figure it out. It's not a financial plan. Some people don't want love, they want control. Learn the difference.

Did you agree with her sentiments? And then the follow up would be what lets you know that your fiance was the one I agree?

I think I was dating my fiance and I was also dating somebody else and the.

Other person met. They ain't get to ring right and we had we we it was a it was a great thing going. They planned my twenty birthday together. It was literally the other woman and.

She wasn't my fiance at the time, but yeslfriend, I was dating both of them. They were not dating, okay, but my girlfriends at the time planning my birthday.

You know, I'm a person where I'm like everybody got.

To meet everybody, so that you don't you're not asking me, well, what it's not there's no I think sometimes like the mystery of like who this other person is is more daunting than the reality of like what this And y'all don't like to amplify or throw salt on anybody's like insecurities, Like let's just all know what's going on. Y'all have each other's number, y'all want to compare notes with each other, y'all could do what y'all want to do, you know what I mean, so that I am.

Not the centerpiece of this of this thing.

And then the relationship with that that person.

Didn't work out, and then I.

Was like, okay, and I think the relationship with my fiance the time kind of got.

A little uh it was it was a little interesting.

I didn't feel like I felt like we were like butting up against each other, and I couldn't understand that because we were so we just like had fun together, right, And so I was like, Okay, I don't think that this is working for me. So I kind of just like took a took a moment, and then I was child might even wanna say that anyway. Anyway, I started I started getting these messages that I needed to like reconnect with with her like that this is my person and I'm but when I.

Met mess yes, like like like like I would be on a plane and I'm behind, uh this couple and we're having a good time.

I'm like, what's your signs?

Because I am into science and it's like an Aquarius and a libre and that's our signs, or it's like six sixty six that means that like you're gonna rekindle with an old flame, or me getting a reading months ahead saying whoever you're going to be with on this date is going to be the person that you're going to be with happened. So like the at twelve am on that day, I went to a concert that she also was at, and then we decided to get dinner to dad together, so that it was just like all

I would love to talk to you, and so she was like okay.

So we sat down and we had a conversation and the thing that she said is like I want to be best friends this time, Like no, matter what we do, Like, I want to be friends.

And I was like, okay, did you believe that that was possible to go from a romantic relationship to just a platonic one.

But it didn't mean platonic. I don't think.

I don't think she wanted it platonic. She wanted she wanted the friendship to be the most important thing, because I think sometimes we miss our partners, we miss connections, we miss communication when we aren't friends. It's like, that's not your friend, and so you don't you don't even understand me on a baseline because I'm not your friend.

I'm just your partner, and.

So for us, she was like, okay, I said, let's I'm.

Down with that.

And we've literally been inseparable ever since. That is truly my best friend. Wherever I'm at, I'm like, I want to share information with her.

I'm like going to Evinsa.

I don't really want to go to because she's gonna be there, and we live together, Like, but.

I just love hanging out with her. I can talk to her all night.

We can like go on these walks we don't know where the hell we going, and we just laughing and joking and there's been like some some moments where it's been difficult to like figure out, like, Okay, how do we because a lot of our.

Our pain pressure points were the same, and so it was like.

We would be at these standstills and it's like, okay, why are we we don't Like we'll have like every three months, we'll have like one big argument and it's like what is this? And so we started going to therapy and all of that to like truly get to understanding.

But it'll be like, you, how many years have you been dating her? Three years?

Did you feel like therapy early on or just let's just say a year, a year and a half, it's too early.

I don't think therapy is I think if you feel like I think a relationship is an investment. It's an investment of time, it's an investment of money. And so you're not just gonna invest in the stock that you don't know nothing about, right, or invest in the stock that you might get some opinions from other people and all of that, right, And I think that relationships are the same, and so sometimes you just need to be witnessed.

It's not about like.

Because people would say the argument on the other side is, well, if you're thinking about therapy so early, this can't be good. And really what I'm hearing from you is like, Okay, we're going good, this is happening, let's fix it.

Yeah, it's like not letting your.

Not letting the the one thing, one thing be the thing that like we can't see eyed eye on And it wasn't. I mean we had we had gone maybe two years at first of just like trying to figure it out ourselves, and we realized like, oh, we need somebody to see what's happening and to say, oh uh uh, Dria, that's actually just this trauma, Jerry, you need to be more considerate about this or this, And that shift for me, because I'm an intellectual, the shift for me of that.

Is like, oh I can do that. I can I don't.

I don't mind making concessions, but it has it has to make sense to me.

But sometimes we also just don't have the right tools to figure out right from either not seeing healthy relationships and not even being able sometimes to hold up the mirror and get ourselves out of our own way sometimes right. And so I'm glad that you guys just do that. So after therapy and being together. What was the Aha, I gotta put a ring on it.

I actually put a ring on it before we were going to therapy.

But I did this rooms into loom and I was in the loon. I was like walking down the beach. Did you even have the ring?

No?

Oh, oh we did.

We found this ring upstate at this Ventus shop and we bought this ring.

But it wasn't like it was like in.

Case it happens like this is the We didn't want to pass up on the opportunity of getting this ring.

It was a beautiful ring and we both loved it. Yeah, this ring.

You didn't buy an adventure shop in Touloum, because I ain't never seen one. No, you bought it in New York, upstate. Okay, you buy this ring and a dventuge shop that it's on her ring finger perfectly just in case we get married?

Who was it not just in case we get We didn't even talk about it, like we just kind of like she tried the ring on her ring finger and then I bought it, and then I had it like talking about it.

Which was interesting.

Because we're talking about yes, And then I would do this funny thing when she would say something smart.

I mean, we get we just do stuff with each other.

But when she would say something smart or something, I would do this because the ring was in this pocket.

You better watch out, bro bro. She was just crack up. That's what this little energy is what makes me feel like.

You know, my man and I've been dating two years and we just talk very deeply about exactly what we want, marriage planning, whatever. So I feel like when we get to that stage sometimes you're like, oh, when right. Sometimes I'll be doing shit where I'll be sucking up, like let's just say, my brokente will make me act crazy. You'd be looking at me like and you think I can't go back back.

Right on the line. And it's scary because when you are in these moments.

You just made me think something about therapy. We were having a conversation the other day where he was like, sometimes I wish you could hear yourself from someone else's Like if.

You don't see it with our when our brother says it.

It's like absolutely not, no, no, no, And it's like, no, you need somebody else to hear you and let them tell you because you're not gonna hear it from me. And it's also like with all of our endoor friends and the loved thing, and it's like I want to, I want to. I want to seem perfect to you. So when when you say, when you give me these notes or this feedback that I can't see, it's hard to contend with from your partner, right, It's hard to be seen in that way.

And so it is nice to be with where most of your arguments surrounding open relationship things.

No, we had a few of that.

No, it just we had a There was a It was a sticky situation because she felt like, like, I get why you're ethically non monogamous.

It makes sense on.

Paper, and it makes sense why I could be. I just am contending with like am I or not? Did you did you give her? I gave her my work, Shet, my ethical non monogamy framework works. Y'all know, this is this is this is where, this is why Hey, y'all She has it in a Google doc in the Google drive.

On her phone.

Yes, I would love Could you pull up yes, the ethical nominogamy contract. Yes, and if we could go through, yes, the points and mind you real quick. This is something that when you meet a partner, you get to them yes on the first date.

Well, when it's getting it's when it's getting there.

Because what I found was I was going on dates with women who has so many preconceived notions about polyamory that I was saying the same thing on a cycle. I'm like, why why do I Why am I keep like proving this or like I'm like handing out the facts or something. So when you got questions about it, if you say, if you say, well, I think people who are poly are this, and I think that, here goes my Ethical.

Nominogamy Framework worksheet.

Here is why I am Polly, and this is my burglar morning verbal Rising. Here's why I am Polly. If you can get down with this, we can do this. But you know the baseline of what you're coming in too, so there's no assumptions or preconceived notions or any of that.

September No, I'm not a virgal. I'm a virgal Moon and Rising. Oh my god.

That's because y'all even know the Okay, so what is your framework?

What what does it read on that document?

So it says why, it says Jerry's CNM he NM poly framework. It says as an intellectual processor, it's helpful for me to write things out to process, understand, and express my ideas and feelings. The first one why. Firstly, I like to start by saying that I am polyamorous by orientation, meaning that it is directly correlated with who I am and how I move through the world. It is also connected to my need to decolonize my body, thoughts, and ways of being.

For me, ethical.

Nominogamy or polyamory is directly dismantling the patriarchy, queerness, and white supremacy are direct opposites in how they function in my life. This supports my desire for expansion in this lifetime. Having multiple intimate, romantic, and loving relationships helps me to sharpen my communication skills, learn and address where my blind spots are, and pushes my capacity for compassion, empathy.

And love.

Love in many forms is the perfect definition for me. Love is abundant in my life and in conjunction and conversation with the universe. My being non monogamous is a continuing conversation with myself, how I spread love and intimate relationships and the freedom that.

Comes without the compound right.

Any Western ideals of monogamy and heteronormativity. Also, the word intimate is mostly faceted because it is.

Not limited to sex.

I think sex is just a minuscule part of intimacy, and because people limit intimacy to those that are sexually involved with it stunts the expansion of how we can connect and expressed ourselves as humans. I just want to feel free in my expression of love outside of any binary including the ones we've learned, because all this is what we learned about how we should exist in relationships. I also know that how I show up in the world in all of my identities with that elevated expression of love.

Is a radical act. It is what I call liberation. Honey, if I wasn't a theater kid right there to.

Hold you ed And I'm gonna need the transcript for this episode so I can copy and paste. Gonna need different So have you ever given this worksheet to someone and they've been like, oh, yeah, this isn't for me.

No, people want to be with me.

You know how it would be a no for me because there's a lot of discussion about the act of love needing to be spread. Decolonization to me of the body sometimes is sexual freedom not necessarily love, and I think I would probably have issues with jealousy knowing that more love needed to be shared.

But also me sharing me share, me loving somebody.

And I'm ethically nonmnogapists by the way my partner and our data the people and together, but the love aspect makes me sometimes and again just boundary for me, feel like I'm putting myself at.

Risk, right, because there's also I think I think polyamory is an umbrella, right, and so you are in an open relationship, right, And in open relationships, different partners might need different things right, And usually sometimes like the Olive conversation, there's a person who like is like, well, I can't just have sex all willy nilly. I need to know somebody. I need to know that I like them. And then there's a person who's like, well, I'm just trying to fuck.

I can't just have.

Sex with a stranger, or I don't want to talk about my feelings with a person that title since outside my partner works.

She and under what you like?

Can you say I love you to someone else while also saying I love you to your fiance.

Yet I feel like I was.

I loved my fiance and I love the partner that I was with at the time.

Now now.

You know, I think there is a little more nuance to it, right, Like I like I'm gonna somebody wrote on uh it not as TikTok, Well, how are you getting married if you're polyamorous? Right, It's like, my partner is the is my best friend. She is the person that I want to share resources with. She is the person that I want to carry my child. She's the person that I want to start a family with. Right, So everybody coming in will know that my partner is my primary, the primary.

And so whereas.

Maybe before her I was open to like having like nobody be the primary, right, maybe having like a kitchen table thing.

But for for what I know, right, which is.

Into today on the kitchen table, I just yes, I just learned about the kitchen.

Yo, let me say something real quick.

Uh oh, niggas will be talking about kitchen table, but don't do the work.

Okay, this is y'all need to quit it. Y'all need to quit it because it's it's it.

Look what's in my notes? Kitchen table, Polly. It just got added in here. February twenty second of this year, I went to a freaking party and literally they handed.

Out it's a way for the men to shirk responsibility by that. It's like it's like a study that this is kitchen table.

Then, like I don't actually have to deal with the real problems at hand. My sister is currently dating somebody. Sorry, I'm gonna tell your business for a little bit.

Who who was not Polly? Right? When your sister was not Polly? No, my sister isn't it? What is not Polly?

But now it was in a poly situation, they were not Polly to begin with, right, But now all of a sudden, a year and a half in, he said, he poled, And now it's this this girl that he been had been dealing with from before who maybe they broke up or maybe they did it.

But he tells her that it's kitchen table.

And so then when she's like, when she's like, well, like you said, the things between us wouldn't change, well, you know, well it's kitchen table.

So we gotta share. No, no, no, no, no, no, no.

Kitchen table is us coming to the table together discussing things.

They don't ever come to the table together to discuss anything.

We don't have a relationship where we can have a relationship.

But also you don't have to.

When she gives him feedback, it becomes about her not being Polly and not about the fact that he didn't do this problem.

That's what I wrong with those men having these ultimatums so like and if you can't suck a dick, you.

Not pop well.

It does say kitchen kitchen table. Polly describes the style of polyamory. We're all parts in the polycule, which is why he's just misusing the word wrong. Are on friendly terms, socialized together regularly and may even share meals or living spaces. But it emphasizes a strong sense of community and we're in this together attitude where the relationships between all partners are prioritized and considered. So he's misusing the word, which I think is well together.

I think you.

Polyamory too, because these niggas are polygamous.

No shade, but it is what it is.

Because if if if the women can't go and have relationships with other women or other men, then you to.

Ask you why as us knowing E and M being under an umbrella, and that polyamory has all of these different like ways in which we set up.

Why are we shading polygamy when it's one of the ways.

Under the umbrella. That's because the men shade to polygamy, Okay, no shade at all, but to marry.

But when people are polygamists, they're dating, they're choosing women, financial game, family structure, socioeconomic Again, that's polygamy with the intent to marry. What happens with these situations, That's why I kept you know, so if you don't.

Listen to our town hall.

Mandy was saying, I'm surprised you had this opinion of Neo's girlfriends when.

We don't want to shame anybody.

It wasn't on Neil's girlfriends specifically.

It was the views on specifically a woman in a polyamorous situation ship wanting to be with him alone.

Right now.

My opinion is that I believe these women probably want to be with him alone and they're accepting. The reason I'm coming to that is because one kind of like what you said about your sister, we see.

A certain dynamic.

We hear about infidelity whatever boom, Now I have four girlfriends. The other layer was that interview of when he said this is what it is. They don't like it, they can go I don't hear anybody doing anything ethical or consensual with that attitude. If we're going to come to the table together, we're going to be in this relationship together.

That hers is not her contract is No, it's literally, this is who I am, this is what I want. This is how I see pitting your girlfriends together and not.

What I'm saying is can people can choose you're what relationship You're getting in.

Telling me what I need to do is coercion and manipulation. It's hurt honestly consent, Well, it's consent. We're rapping honesty in manipulation. I don't that's what That's what her sister's man is going, right, because they were together and she brought someone in. I'm saying out the gate.

If you're saying this is what it is, there's no manipulation in someone accepting what it is. Yes, in this scenario where a woman who may or may not have been broken up or was it part of it is one thing. If he's saying out the gate, these women were given what I'm willing to do, how I'm willing.

To run my house. My kids are here, they're gonna have to partake in that much. We're gonna have.

We got an ig live coming twelve months or less. I'm telling you, when people just decide to jump onto something, that's a fad. Caring for these women feelings, the conversations, making everyone feel valued.

Which I wish they had.

This is my issue is that there's not more people when they're in these interviews asking them those questions.

They don't know that they're judging me monogamous, right.

I guess I'm not a monogamous person, but I'm judging based on his answer.

And to me, when I talk.

About coercion and manipulation, it's generally man with money, you can't fuck another nigga.

I'm a fuck these girls. Hey, these are my girlfriends.

Hope y'all bitch just get long kind of vibe to it instead of as we had learned more conversation about ethical non monogamy or not.

It doesn't sound like that.

Even the thing you just said about is it Polly if she can't suck a dick.

A lot of this is control. That's not Polly, that's not opening.

But I also believe in Polly, in it within ethical non monogamy that everything is customizable and it's not about just everyone being free to go out and suck dick, eat kuchi, sit on dicks.

Whatever they want. Him no, but again it's a conversation.

I was very adamant that that me and my partner, my ex, could fuck women together. I didn't want him fucking bitches outside of me, which is why, yes, he betrayed my trust and cheated on me, but he also was not comfortable with me fucking other niggas.

I didn't feel controlled. I didn't need it.

But to me, ethical non monogamy looks different for everybody. I don't think it's controlling, because hey, this doesn't work for me. If you want to go and have a poly relationship with someone else that wants, that's gonna allow you or be okay, or can take it for you sucking.

Dick, go be with that. But that doesn't make God.

Clearly, I'm like damn, But I think I think ultimately, what I want to say is that.

Consent is the biggest pause.

As long as we are all consenting, I do because I've heard stories of a of a of another person with a lot of money who uses control to be with multiple women, right, Like, I do also understand where you're coming from, because we do need to be having the conversation about like money playing a part in like how people are relating or what people would put up with or not put up with. But I do think, like we can see that all of the women were together,

Would hopefully be the story, right because honestly, that would be the greatest thing for ethical nominogamy, Yes.

For somebody to be like, wow, I was treated so well and then I had these women who I loved, who I could be with all the time, and we all love the same man.

Live casting, sad I didn't get a contract live casting? Can I get a polyameras couple with two women one man combined income under two hundred thousand.

That I think like takes away.

I would want to know two women who are happily with a man where the combined income between.

The three of you ain't watch.

You know that black man, that white woman with the two with the black woman with the two men.

Yes, and I've seen them online.

I would love to be able to talk to it because I hate where we have to just keep bringing up the money. I would love to speak about two women who are agreeing to be in a relationship that's polly, that don't care or wouldn't be happier if they were the only ones that could genuinely come in and explain and express ethical nominogamy and white works for them without the money being the factor. Please email me d M me uh decisions Pott. Gmail will get you on horrible We bring you here.

We need to have share to come back because we gotta wrap for somebody else walking in.

And I know y'all like, damn, it just got hot, But I just want to.

Say that it's it's also indigenous, like the sharing of resources, the and so community. I'm happy to see like more people are talking about it.

I just am.

I just am excited about more women talking about it. Yeah, we get a lot of the male perspective. And I think also people have so many ideas about it, but monogamy is the younger sister.

You know what I mean.

Us hold this, thank you, Mandy close us out while she holding this book that just fits so perfectly well life.

No, I need a book now by you, Jerry. No people are asking for the book.

No, no, no no.

And I got a good writer for you if you want to write one, Yes I do. I got a writer for you. No holds Bart Duing Manifesto, Sexual Exploration and Power. Get it now wherever you get your book available June twenty fourth. Also get onto our Patreon, Patreon, dot com, backslash Horrible Decisions, Bye, Jerry, thank you so much for joining us. So glad we finally got this happened. This has been another episode of Decisions, Decisions

Repett the Bud, the don between the