Episode description

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In this episode, we talk about getting jobs in the cyber security industry. Do you need a PhD to get a job? What about certifications? Find out the secrets in this episode.

Episode Transcript

 [00:00:00] Hi everyone welcome to episode one of the cyber life podcast. My name is Ken Underhill. I'll be your host. In today's episode, we're going to talk about cyber security jobs. Now there's a lot of myths out there on how you should get a job right. Should I get a go get a masters degree in cyber security should I go get a doctorate degree and the reality behind that is a degree is not going to help you get a job necessarily. Now for some jobs they want you to have a bachelors degree or maybe a Masters if you're in certain jobs, or doctorate if for teaching at the university level. But for the most part it's about skills. And this industry, unfortunately, is very, very heavy on certifications. That being said there are so many certifications. I literally know people that have like 40 or 50 certifications. Now will certifications get you a job. Not necessarily. So there are some certs that might help you get your foot in the door. You know maybe help you get past that robotic resume filter that H.R. departments have. And there are some key ones. There are things like CompTIA's Security Plus. That's kind of an entry level generalized security certification. Also, I want to state that I'm not endorsing any of these certifications. I don't have any special deal or anything with them. Other entry level ones that may be beneficial to you are things like the Amazon AWS certifications or even like Google Cloud certification. Primarily though AmazonAWS. One thing to note about this industry is you really have to network quite a bit and then you also need to brand yourself. So you've got to show why are you different. Right. And it's not just you saying like "oh yeah I can do this job right" or "I have these skills I can do this." You really need to show that. So, whether that's you maybe creating an online course, maybe that's you having a YouTube channel where you throw up some videos. For example let's say you want to be a SOC Analyst. And so you throw up some YouTube videos showing you using you know the free version of Splunk and analyzing some data. Right. Or it shows you analyzing packets with Wireshark. Just something that actually shows an employer that you actually have a skill. Right. And then I mentioned networking and it's not so much of having like five million LinkedIn connections or five million Facebook page likes. That's not networking. Networking is you getting off your rear-end, going out to different conferences or meetings in your areas and building those real relationships. And then from there, after you've delivered some value to those people, saying "hey by the way I'm looking for a job. If you hear something that might be a good fit let me know." You know. Or "Hey I'm trying to get into company X. I noticed that you work there. I know we've been chatting a bit at this meetup. Are there any positions open you know of, even if they're not cyber security-related? I just want to really get my foot in the door at that company." Something that a lot of people don't know about, at least I don't think they know about a lot of times, is that companies if they want you, they'll just create a job for you you know and a lot of times it's about the person that you connect with going back to their boss and saying "hey this person is really, really good. What can we do to get them working here? Can we get them in here part-time or in an internship or something just to get them working here because they're really, really good." And like I said a lot of times it's all about the fact that you've networked with different people within that organization. The other thing I want to talk about, briefly is resume's. So I notice a lot of cookie-cutter resumes out there and some of them are very terrible. You know some people want to use like fancy fonts and different colorings and just try to make it look super, super cool. The reality is a lot of times that doesn't even get through the filter for the H.R. department. And honestly the best way to get through the filters is by handing a human your resumé or you know writing a letter in and we'll talk about kind of how to get into your your quote on quote dream company in just a second. So with your resumé just some key things that I recommend. Again, I'll flat out say I'm not a resume writing expert. I don't sell you a resume writing template or anything like that. I have no financial gain by you getting a better resume. So I'm just gonna tell you what's worked for me and if you want to use that great. If you don't, hopefully you get that job, you know, hopefully you get an interview and get the job. So, the first thing is I always like to throw a quote at the very top of my resume from someone you know maybe a professor or maybe a past manager just somebody that would give you a quote you know like "hey, this person is a hard worker" or whatever the case might be. Now with that, make sure it's somebody that kind of has some credentials so don't just pick like the lowest level helpdesk person to write you a review. That's fine if that's all you can get, but try to get somebody like a manager or you know somebody with an advanced degree or advanced certifications. Basically, you just want somebody that you can throw a bunch of alphabet soup after their name, a bunch of different letters that tries to impress the H.R. person looking at your resume.

 [00:05:07] After that quote, you know because again a quote helps a lot, like if you think of you going to Amazon for example and you go to buy a product, you're going to look at the reviews right. At least most people are going to look through those reviews and if you see a people leaving reviews on a product you're more likely to buy that one if it's got five star reviews or four star reviews than a product with no reviews, right. Most of us do it that way. Some people still want to buy the product with no reviews, but most people are going to buy a product that has the four or five star reviews, similar psychology philosophy here.

 [00:05:36] We're trying to get the H.R. person or the hiring manager that's looking at your résumé to say "oh, this person that has all these credentials after their name is saying that this person is really good. So, why don't I go ahead and set them up for an interview?".

 [00:05:51] The next part on the resumé I would do is bullet points. So right after that quote you list from somebody, go ahead and put bullet points listing out some of the key things you have done. Not you know "I was responsible for this or that" but instead list quantifiable information. "I completed this project that directly led to five thousand dollars extra a month for the company." Right. Or I closed this deal that netted the company one hundred million dollars. I reduced the time to launch on this product by implementing you know my strategy of X, which made this project more successful. Measurable things, so that way somebody can quickly look at that and say "Ok, this person produces results" because at the end of the day if I'm trying to hire you, I want to know that you can come in and produce results for me. You don't have to know everything technically right up front. Right. I can train you on a lot of stuff, but if I see that you're producing results for somebody else already it's a lot easier to make that decision to bring you in for an interview.

 [00:06:56] The next area I would go with is your education. So just quickly listing out you if you have a bachelor's degree, master's, or associates. If you don't have a college degree you can just skip part that. Or if you've done some kind of like a boot camp training then you can put that in there, like a coding boot camp or whatever. After that, put any type of awards or certifications you have. This is so the HR search will find you when they are looking for a Security Plus, CASP, CEH, Pentest Plus, whatever. You could also list awards you got in college, so for example if you received an award for a 4.0 GPA, you could list that.

 [00:07:37] After that section, list out anything you've done in the industry, so anything you've done to contribute to the industry. So after you've listed out any awards and certifications, the next section should be your contributions to the community. Now, if you don't have any then just leave that section off your resume. But if you've done any type of volunteer work, if you volunteered at different events, like a security conference for example, list that on there. It just shows that you're really in for the long haul with the industry.

 [00:08:24] The next section is going to be any other type of give back type of stuff, so volunteer work or whatever. And then after that move into your actual work experience.

 [00:08:35] What you're trying to do there with that format I use is you're just trying to somewhat lay it on thick of all the stuff you've done because most people don't care about your work experience. If they see that you've got all these other criteria in their head that's the reality of it.

 [00:08:51] There was some study that was done a while ago and I read through it. I forget the name of it. Basically, they went around and interviewed all these hiring managers. And they were asking them "what is important to you of these criteria that are listed out in the survey" and surprisingly work experience was the last thing they cared about, it was like maybe 6 percent of the time. That was one of the last things they looked for, but they looked mostly for what kind of things were you accomplishing. What were the specific measurable things that you were doing. And then also, what were you doing to contribute back to whatever industry you were trying to get a job in. Those two were I think were 65 percent combined or 70 percent combined of what hiring managers were looking for. So essentially, it's like you had those things kind of locked down and you were really delivering results here at your current company, a previous company and then you were also really giving back to whatever industry you were trying to get a job in, then essentially in most cases you would get called for an interview. Your work experience could be McDonald's right and you were still getting called for an interview because you hit those areas. So that's just something to keep in mind. And that's exactly why I format my résumé the way I do.

 [00:10:14] And I'll tell you something else, when I talked earlier about networking and then also branding yourself most of the time that's how you get the interview in most cases. You actually get employers reaching out to you. I have that frequently I have people reaching out to me saying "hey not sure if you're in the market but here's you know this type of thing available. Just want to see if you're interested in it or if you know somebody else interested in it.".

 [00:10:38] And that's the way it works in this particular industry. It's different from other places where you know you get a certain degree you get a certain certification and you kind of automatically get a job right. Like if you go to medical school and you get your doctor's license you're pretty much guaranteed to be a doctor right. You can get a job as a doctor in most cases. This industry is a little different in the aspect of you need to network. I mean you need to do it before you need the job obviously. Right now you're listening to this and you're like I need a job right now. Then start going to whatever free conferences or meetups are in town. You basically have to put in the work. If there are no meetups in your area then do them online or start volunteering to different things online. Of course you're not getting paid, but it's a way to network and something else to throw in your resume. You also need to think outside the box to get into the industry, specifically into the companies that you want. A lot of times people are strictly like I want to be a penetration tester. And the company never hires for that role. They only hire for maybe a SOC Analyst or Cybersecurity analyst, or security engineer. So be mindful of that. What are they actually hiring for at the company.

 [00:11:43] And then also look at their jobs that are currently open and figure out which one of these you could actually do. They may not be cybersecurity specific, but if you really want to work at that company a lot of times if you get your foot in the door and then you start talking about "hey I really want to transition into the Cyber Security Department here" many times they'll create a position for you after they see you working hard for like three to six months. So just keep all of that in mind. Again this industry has a lot of the myths around if you get a bunch of certifications and college degrees you will be all set for jobs. And I know a bunch of people that have that all of that stuff and have no job right now.

 [00:12:27] So you just just keep that in mind. The other thing along those lines that I want to mention is you need to think outside the box.

 [00:12:38] You also just need to realize again that it's all about branding yourself. You have to differentiate yourself. There's so many people trying to get into this industry right now because they see the media talking about millions of job openings and the reality is a lot of those jobs that are open require security clearances. A lot of them are government jobs and many people don't qualify or, if you've ever experienced clearance process, it takes years to get cleared. And who really has time to wait for two years on a security clearance when you have to feed your family, right?

 [00:13:15] And then the other thing is that employers a lot of times make these job postings unrealistic. I've literally seen some that are like "hey we're hiring for this entry level role. We want somebody with at least five years experience. And you must have at least four certifications or you know we want you to have the CISSP certificartion, which you have to have 5 work experience to be able to even hold. And we want you to have all that stuff and be skilled in all these different technology areas. And by the way again this is an entry level role and the pay as you know is 10 bucks an hour right now.".

 [00:14:05] You know most of those job descriptions out there are unrealistic and that's why I really encourage you if you're listening to this to actually focus on branding yourself number one. Number two getting out there and networking. So going to conferences in your area going to meetups. Meetup groups are generally free. So do those, connect with people, get a LinkedIn profile if you don't have one already have one, put all your skills and stuff in your profile and really make it look nice look. You can google search how to make your LinkedIn profile look professional. And then from there, start following the companies you want to work for. Connect with their employees. Start following their posts to see what they're doing. Like their posts and comment on their posts.

 [00:14:52] Use what I call the three by three by three method, so basically what you're going to do to grow your network you're going to comment on three different people's post today, so positive comments you know contribute. Don't just be like I hate this stuff you know be positive about it. You're also going to like three other people's posts and then you're going to send three other people a message each day like "Hey I see that you work at company X or I see that you posted about this or that or that you're skilled in this area. If I can ever help you on this project or if I can ever help you in any way let me know.".

 [00:15:34] Just something to reach out, so you kind of cut through all that noise and they say oh who is this person. And they go look at your profile because what they may know, that you don't know, is that there's a job that just opened up at that company that you'd be perfect for. And they go look at your profile and say "well this person has all these skills. Let me let me message them back because we have a job they would be perfect for.".

 [00:15:58] That's how getting jobs happens in this industry. It does not happen by you getting 12 college degrees and getting 48 certifications and begging people for jobs, that doesn't work. What works is branding yourself, networking like crazy and delivering value to others first before you ask for a job. I can't tell you how many people connect with me on LinkedIn and then automatically are blasting my inbox like "I need a job" or "I need a work visa" and it makes me want to scream.

 [00:16:32] You're not showing any value of what you do and I go look at your profile I'm like there's nothing there. You're literally just talking about how you need a job and you don't even have skills listed on your profile for me to try and pitch to hiring managers or recruiters. That not going to get you a job. Sorry.

 [00:16:42] If you're listening to this and you're like "he doesn't know what he's talking about," I help people get jobs all the time in this industry. So that's my street cred on that. You're welcome to continue not having a job or you can hopefully take the information that I'm talking about if it's new to you and implement it and actually get yourself a job in the cyber security industry.

 [00:17:01] So this first episode again was just talking about dispelling some myths about getting a job in the cybersecurity industry and some of the key tactics that I recommend you do. I'll see you in the next episode.