Ep. 91: Building the Perfect Elk Arrow

Welcome back to another episode of Cutting the Distance podcast. I'm Dirk Durham and I have a guest here today.

It's Corey Miller.

We're in beautiful Big Sky of Montana at Total Archery Challenge.

Corey's here with Darton Archery.

And Black Eagleros have a booth set up and Cory's longtime friend someone. I appreciate his insight on archery and el cunning. He's an accomplished l hunter. Welcome Corey.

Hey, thanks, thanks Derek.

I doing really good, really good. What's your job title at SO?

I'm the regional sales manager out West. So basically I cover Oregon, Washington, Idaho, Montana, and Wyoming. So travel around all the beautiful states. I was born and raised in Oregon, had a shop in Oregon, lived a majority of my life, I guess in Washington, right on the border.

And then what was the name of your shop? Triple X R Trey.

I bet a, but a lot of our listeners will probably recognize your shop. Yeah, probably recognize you. You've been around the business.

For a while. I'm old yah. Yeah.

And then so we moved to sold the business and moved to Montana. Couldn't be happier on that. Just blessed to live in a great state. And yeah, a lot better elk, environment, people, environment, everything, beauty weather.

I just love it out here. Yeah, I love Montana. How many years you been out cutting?

Uh, thirty? I think close to thirty. Yeah, yeah, I've kind of forgotten.

You've probably seen a lot of different fads and and different things and get gadgets and gizmos and bows and arrows and stuff come long in the last thirty years.

Yeah, definitely.

Yeah, it's changed and changed a lot.

There's been some new stuff which is still old stuff that we did back then, but but now we just do it better. So you know, between fletchings, broadheads, arrow components to you know, the carbon makeup of an arrow and overall weight of an arrow, all those things have changed drastically, you know, in the last to me, in the last really probably ten years, is really starting to change and change a lot.

So yeah, I remember when I was a kid, I didn't even have a compound bow at the time. I was still shooting like a crappy little re curve. And one of my neighbor kids, his dad was big into archery and they had some kind of.

Were they graphite arrows?

Yeah? Were they were more fiberglass.

They were fiberglass.

They were weird looking, yeah, and I was like, whoa, those are wow, those are cool? You know, I had my old XX seventy five's you know, or game probably a game getter at that point, you know, my one arrow.

I remember when like carbon first came out and everybody's like, oh, they're dangerous. You know, if you shoot an animal, you're gonna want to cut like eight inches around the meat because there's gonna be carbon splinters exploded all through the meat. And so yeah, nobody even thinks about it.

Anymore now, and arrow brakes if it does break inside of an animal, and it's not a big deal, but you know it's usually so bloodshot.

Nobody's eating that hamburger anyway, right right, Yeah, you just cut that out anyway.

With the with the devastation that the broadheads are doing to them, that's pretty well a big hole already.

So yeah, yeah, So what's your favorite mode of operation when you go l hutting? Are you a day tripper, you a backpack hunter? Like back hunter?

What are you like both? What do you do?

Yeah?

So, I mean like when I first started hunting, it was, you know, pull a camper and had elk camp with you.

I didn't know anything other than.

Like hunting camps where everybody you know sat around, and it was more of a camping trip slash hunting. I didn't know anything about calling. I remember I sounded good calling and stuff, but I didn't know, like why am I doing what I'm doing and when should I do it? And so then I instantly thought I sucked, and so that I kind of quit calling because I'd be out in the middle of the open, I'd be looking at elk and I'd scream at him and they all turn around and run away, and I'm like, God, I suck

Right.

You know, I don't want to be anchored down. I've never wanted to put up a wall tent. I want to be as much mobile as possible. So that's kind of our version of a back country hunts. You know, it's you know, anywhere from two miles in to eight miles in. We're we're pretty realistic. We're getting old. We're both fifty five years old. The hills are getting steeper every year, so it's it's tough to hunt that way, but I enjoy it.

What do you do in the off season to keep in shape? You like to do a lot of trail running, right.

Do a lot of trail running.

And you know that helps too because I'm on the road a lot during the winters, you know, eating bad food and sleeping bad, you know, sleeping in hotels, never really getting a lot of sleep, and so trying to

And so that's kind of kind of fun.

While you're on the road. Yeah, yeah, that'd be probably really helpful.

It's kind of cool, like I got strawa so you can track what you know you're doing and your friends can see it and they're like, man, this is this guy's running in Bend, Oregon, and then he's over in Boise, Idaho running, and he's he's down in Wyoming running. What's this guy do for work? He's always on vacation or something living. Yeah, so it's kind of neat to do that and it's fun. So, yeah, I do a little bit of trail running.

I don't. There was a time there I kind of got.

Into the gym thing and going to the gym and yeah, I like cardio.

Yeah, so yeah, what do you do? Usually? I don't.

I don't start until right now, here are the beginning of June. So I start in June. I start hiking the hills around the boys here. I live in the Boise area. There's a bunch of great trails in the Boise foothills. I mean, you want to hike, you want to bike, you want to run, whatever, There's no running for me. I'm I have some lower back issues where running just kills me. From my previous career back in the old days, back when I was a tire guy. But but that was part of your job.

That was running.

That was my job was to run every day on concrete for twelve hours a day.

It was.

It was brilliant. You know, it's pretty good shape back from there. Yeah.

I was pretty pretty good shape back then, except for all my aches and pains. And I felt like a truck run over a truck run over me every day. Yeah, and then on the weekends and my time off, it was it was tough. I feel I think I feel better now than I did in my thirties as far as aches and pains go. But I'm a little heavier too. I'm a little bit fatter. And so in June then I'm fifty. I just took fifty.

So I'm fifty five and I don't know what fifty five is supposed to feel like, but it hurts.

Yeah.

And so I've been I've been really laxed.

I've been you know, I run, I see, I feel like I stay in shape enough. But for some reason, it's just I hit a It's changed. And so now I'm happened to be more diet Yeah, differently than what it was before.

Yeah.

Yeah, well yeah, inflammation comes from your diet big time.

Yeah, And they say you.

Can't outwork a at work a bad diet which is in your in your twenties and thirties, I'd.

Argue, I'd argue with I'd argue because I but really bad and I was really really into the hardcore running and doing lots of lots of miles, ate everything, drink everything, and it was good.

Yeah, you just burn it up. But man, now it's it catches up.

Yeah, it catches up.

Yeah, same thing.

I eat like an a hole a lot of the year and then right now I'm I'm on the carnivore diet. You know, I gotta drop some pounds before September and you know, back to the you know, hiking those hills. I will go to the gym, lift some weights I'd like to get. I like to do a dumbbell workhouse to get my shoulders strong, you know, just build strength that way you can grab those quarters, pick them up, lug them around.

You know. I've always been pretty strong anyway, but it's good.

Like as I age, I don't have that superhuman strength I had when I was younger, you know, and I was in my thirties. Now I don't have a physical job, so I'm not as strong. So I got to I get to keep keep some some strength training in there to to be able to let log those quarters around and also even to us walking around with your day pack. You know, a day pack can be anywhere from ten to twenty five pounds, depending on where you're at, what

Yeah, the shoulders burn just having a pack on.

Yeah.

The other thing that I've noticed, like running, my cardio is really good, but still like we went shed hunting and we did some bear hunts and like say, only twenty twenty five pounds pack on, nothing big, but putting boots on and actually hiking hills instead of running hills. I was sore, like big time. My shin's hurt, back hurts, And so I've got it about now is probably where I need to start introducing a little bit more hikes

A lot more stabilization muscles are used all this and that's a good thing with trail running.

Like my ankles as they feel really super strong from trail runs, so I don't I don't roll ankles very often.

Never really.

I should do some light running just to kind of help my ankles because my ankles are I got a bad ankle I had surgery on.

In December of twenty two.

But I need to and it's feeling really good now, but it'd be it never can hurt to have stronger ankles. Yeah, so, but yeah, I probably I probably should work on my fitness and my diet year round, you know, especially now that I'm older. And I could get away with that when I was younger, but nowadays I just can't do it.

It catches up to you.

Everything, Your metabolism slows down, you know, just harder to get off the couch. And yeah, I need I need to. I need to now that in my fifties, Now that I'm fifty, I need to. I need to like reevaluate and start doing things different. Yeah what's that your next?

That song?

My next thirty years? You know, I'm gonna start doing some things a little differently. So yeah, that way can have some honey in my in my sixties and seventies and enjoy them.

Yeah, yeah, so that's yeah, that's kind of my elk hunting.

You know, are you spot in stock? Are you call heavy?

I'm a call heavy.

I've killed one, well one elk silent. And it was the hardest thing I could do not to rip out a bugle because the bulls.

Just streaming and I can't see him.

He's just over the edge, and I'm just like, I know if I call, he'll come over here.

And it was just like pulling teeth not to call. But it worked out.

And uh, because I had I had a cow out in front of me and and I had another bull coming up to that cow, and all I could see was just time.

And then as soon as he.

Just busted out of there, and I thought, well, two things, either that bull's coming or they winded me. So I went to full draw, took two steps up the hill and all here is glunks. Here he comes, walked right up to that cow twenty yards and smoked him. So he had no idea was there. And that's the that's the problem with calling, is it's like they know you're there. You're giving it up right.

I just love calling, Yes, but it's a it's a poker game, chess match, whatever. You can't show your cards, can't move your your your pieces until at the right moment, and sometimes, like you said, that, the right moment never came for you to call.

Yeah, you know, and that's the thing I kept pulling.

I think I could, and then that you know, and then you do, and then it doesn't work out, and you're like, so, I've had a lot of times where it's like there's probably times I should have just shut up and I and I didn't, which is fine, you know, I mean, I don't know. We hunt, We hunt hard and long, and we we have access to time to hunt, which is good. So I'm willing to booger some stuff up.

Yeah I'm not.

I'm not worried that that was my one opportunity. I feel like I can get a few more opportunities because of the way we hunt and and calling I think offers more.

You know.

I think that that's the things that sucks is when the OLP don't talk back.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's the that's the hard part because I.

Get used to nothing but answers, and so you know, you'll be you know, working down into some some areas and you're doing some some calls and nothing answers, and then you walk fifty yards and blow elk out and you're like, why why didn't he just say something?

And sometimes in primetime, you know that third week of September, it's like there's got to be bold and that. I mean, they're hearing me, they're just tight.

Lip and he's just like, Oh, I'm just gonna stand here and wait till you come down here.

Yeah.

Yeah, such as the life of elk calling, it can be really awesome or really terrible.

I guess that's where you have to be able to pivot.

Like if you're in country where you can spot them and then like you get on them, that's good.

Yeah.

So this year is gonna be going to be that because the tag I drew is definitely in country that I'm not used to hunting, So it's gonna be glass and spotting stalking. I'm kind of nervous on that because I'm not real stealthy, patient kind of hunter.

I'm not either either.

I stumble on a blade of grass, so I'm sure I'm gonna roll rocks and be loud and so stalking is going to be tough, but we'll see, it'll be fun.

Yeah, get it done.

Yeah, it's a new way to do it.

Yeah.

I know in times where I've like stalked in on bugles, my my anticipation is through the roof, Like I almost psyched myself out with like excitement. I mean, it is an exciting way to do it, just like anticipating the opportunity.

But also I.

Love the interaction with ELK when you call him, and that's it's funner yet so I can see both.

More.

Yeah, yeah, definitely, definitely they are the lesser species.

Yeah.

I mean some people like Ryan Lampers might argue with you and laugh in your face if you said that, but it's okay.

I mean he's entitled to that opinion.

But he's not a good ELK caller.

But he's not a good.

ELK caller, but he's a great ELK killer. Yes, he

Man?

There's so much information out there on both sides. One one camp says you have to shoot an eight hundred grain arrow, one camp says you have to shoot a four hundred grain arrows Well, you know, there's all these differences of opinion on what the perfect elk.

Hunting arrow is, a perfect amount of foc front of center, front of center.

Wait, wait if you didn't know what that is.

So I get the calls too, because I do a lot of customer service calls too. So everybody across the country who calls Black Eagle a good chance I'm going to be answering the phone, and so a lot of can I.

Just call in and like mess with you? Yeah, Hello, I have a problem.

I have a transfer button, so I usually transfer somebody with weird, somebody with some more experience me or patients. But but yeah, so I think I personally feel, you know, shooting enough elk seeing some differences.

I've went down that road.

I went to the real heavy, and I tell people I've killed them with three hundred and seventy greets. So I've killed them with five hundred and seventy and I'll and everything in between, and not one elk died any deader than the other.

But I know I'll never shoot that heavy again.

Yeah.

And the main reason on that is I don't have the draw length or the poundage to push that heavy and narrow at a speed that I want, and which that speed is that two eighty to ninety mark. And there's some people that still can't even get to that just because of their limits on draw links or or poundage.

Yeah, so let's back, let's before we go further. Why is that to eighty to two ninety? Yeah, So speed's important.

The big thing on that is if you were to measure or look at a site tape, measure your gap from twenty to sixty, if you were to shoot a speed of two sixty versus two eighty, and you look at the gap difference from that twenty to sixty, that that pen gap shrinks a lot when you go from two eighty to three hundred, that twenty to sixty gap barely changes, so at some point there's no much not much more return in my gapping of my pins of

And see where I'm at.

And I know that every thirty grains is ten feet, So if I shoot a four to fifty graine arrow through the graph at two seventy, I know I need to gain ten feet, So I need to shove or take thirty grains off of that arrow. So I want to try and build an arrow around four to twenty to get to me too eighty.

Do I mess with your poundage or your bow at all a little.

Bit, because that's you know, I want to be comfortable, I want to aim good at that I'll make everything else work. And this is the beautiful thing from back in the day where we didn't have arrow choices, and so poundage was the only way we could gain speed overdraws were the only way we could shorten an arrow up to make it lighter. So we've seen a lot of ninety pound bows back in the day, and they didn't have any letoff and twenty five inches arrows, and

It weakens up a spine.

So depending on how much tip weight you're going to run to make sure you're going to stay in a spine.

I'm still basing everything on my overall weight of an arrow. So so it's say a.

Spartan arrow versus a rampage. A rampage is gonna have fifty six grain half out and a Spartan has a twenty six grain insert.

So right there, there's thirty grains difference.

And if that arrow, because of this, the build on those overall weight is within five.

Ten grains of each other. I'm gonna take the one with the.

More foc Yeah.

So, and I think, you know, I think another thing about people think come out west and shooting elk or shooting moose. You know, they need a bigger, heavier system. And I think the opposite on it, because I look at it as a target, and it's a stationary target. You take a lighter target, a light hoofed animal or a bag target that's hanging. It absorbs all the energy

And so you take an elk or a moose, they kind of stand there.

Well, every comes some wind again that you know, that target stands there, and so that penetration gets better as the bigger the animal.

In my opinion, that makes sense.

Yeah, it's a more stationary, solid target you're shooting into. There's it doesn't give yep.

Yeah, and it's not absorbing the you know, And that's why a lot of white tails, especially the ones that look up the tree, usually that arrow doesn't get through that animal. But when that animals relax and has no idea about the reaction time of that shot happening, you can usually blow through a white tail at fifty pounds, no problem. I've shot through a lot of the white

Yeah, it's funny. I've I kind of stumbled onto that same idea on my own through trials and tribulations over the years, mostly regarding pit gap, right. I don't want these great, big pin gaps. Reason being, if you misjudge your yardage by three to five yards, when you have a huge pin gap, you're gonna miss or hit somewhere you don't want to hit.

And that's what happened when I shot that big, heavy arrow, and I you know, I don't know when the last I've shot over forty yards, so I'm not a distant shooter. And that's where it really opened my eyes because I'm like Okay, here's the bull. He's stepping out. It's forty. Put forty on him, let it go, and I hit at forty. It was forty two yards I shot him for and I was five six inches below where my pin was, and I was I was actually praying that I was going to miss him because it was going

You know he was dead.

But it was like, man, I can't I can't be worrying about two to three yards at forty and under, yes, and the other thing talking about a pin gap for me, I should a two pin that I can move my two pins gap wise. It's not a stationary this is what it is. And I set it for twenty to forty and on an Elk's cavity at fifty yards is back to belly. So if I'm at full draw, Elk comes in, boogers up, runs out there, stops, looks it

Yeah, so it sounds like you like to keep your shots fortying in fortying under. So you know, with all the hype these days guys, you know, practicing long distances and wanting to shoot an elk at seventy yards and what's your opinion on them?

I don't try to have an opinion on it, because it's a moral issue that you battle with your own self, right, And I alwasy tell people if you question yourself and you lose that animal, I hope you beat yourself up. But because you're going to still the possibilities of losing an animal at twenty yard shot is still going to be there. So I have a hard time saying it's because of that distance, right, But when I take a

I've I've seen that a lot of these ELK training camps have gone to you know, in the questionaire when you sign up, what's your.

What disisgust with Dan and watch him do that?

Get a heart rate improved and watch people watch you put a little bit of pressure on you.

And these guys have a hard time hitting that dot.

Yeah you got you got thirty people looking at you and you said fifty yards. It's damn tough for them to even hit the target.

Let alone.

It's the same thing as a steel target. You put the steel target out there.

Also in the stress level changes because I got it, you know, so, I mean that's hunting. I mean yeah, So I try not to, Like I say, it's a moral thing that you've got a battle with yourself. I just feel like at where I am in my life, like I don't need to push to the envelope. I feel confident that I'm going to get opportunities and it's not the end of the world if I don't kill an elk. Honestly, I love being in the woods. I love sunsets, I love the sunrises. I love the thunderstorms.

I don't know. But it's not like the determining factor of whether or.

Not that you had fun. Yeah, yeah, so no, I get that. I love that. Yeah.

It is a it is a morality thing, and you're not here to be the moral morality police, not either.

No, And I'd like to talk about it.

To like, you know, I think more informed people, you know, can start quite I feel like it's very important to question yourself. I know, I'm my own worst critic, and I love that how you said, if if you doubted the shot and then you make a bad shot, you better beat yourself up, right.

Don't normalize it. That's the big thing.

And you know, we start to see more more of this stuff being filmed or talked about, you know, and a run in an archery shot for years. My struggle with it is I feel like people are are being more okay with losing animals, and I think that's terrible. I think that's wrong.

Yeah, I agree with that, So I'm not okay with it. That's why I try to keep my shots.

Yeah, and I know people and I did it. I've lost animals. And I look at it and I say, you know, it was a fatal hit. I'm punching my tag. Yes, And I don't judge people for not doing it. Like I said, I these are all things that you have to deal with yourself. But looking at it as a whole of us as hunters, I don't think we should ever normalize it.

Yeah, I agree. What's your take on this is kind off the topic arrows, but you know, people normalize and stuff. What's your take on the on people just being crappy to each other on social and all these all these little little TIFFs and people getting these arguments on social media, and and uh, there's a like arguments absolutely horribly.

You know.

I'm not a crossbow guy, and you see a lot of it on crossbow stuff. I seen one particular person say something about I don't even know if I want to say it. It was it was so bad, you know, and it was a pretty prominent person, and I'm.

Thinking that's just horrible. Because you don't know the limitations of anybody else. And it's the same thing.

We go back into the moral thing, right, you know, why am I going to determine whether or not you want to shoot sixty yards? Why are why are you determined whether or not I shoot? Shooting and expandable? You know, it's just you know, there's there's all these things, and we've got enough people and coming. The big thing for me is coming from a state such as Oregon and Washington where we watched hunters fight against hunters and we lost baron cougar hunting, we lost running hounds, we lost

And I look at that and I'm like, this is the most ridiculous thing I've ever seen. Absolutely, if you don't want to hunt with a crossbow, don't do it. I've never seen anybody else's equipment ever screw up any of my hunts. I was like, man, I would have killed a note, but there was a guy out there hunting with a crossbow. From crying out loud. You know, it just makes no sense.

To make no sense.

So so yeah, so I'm watching hunters fight against hunters and watching watching us lose our rights to hunt. That's why, the biggest reason why I am so against people treating other hunters that way. It's pretty simple. Turn the channel, you know, if you don't watch the program that's on TV, turn the channel. Yeah, if you don't want to hunt the way that the person is hunting.

It's okay, it's fine.

Yeah, you don't have to. Nobody's saying you had to.

No.

Yeah, let's say if it's legal, that's the thing. If it's legal, the state's determined it's legal. Yeah, then let them do it. Someone wants to do it, let's go right ahead.

And there's a lot of things. You know, we're older too, and you know, back in the day, what I thought was dumb, and now I've done I'm like, it's actually kind of fun. You know, for me hunting out of a tree, I thought, god, I could never do it. And I look forward to hunting white tailed dos in you know, in October, November whatever time that you know, that late season.

I enjoy it. It's kind of fun. It's a different hunt.

It's relaxing, it's fun to watch animal behavior. I love watching deer.

But back in my earlier days, I man, I couldn't do it.

Yeah, that's stupid. They should outlaw that. Yeah. Yeah.

My good friend Bradley, you know, he runs hound dogs and he doesn't run baits. He has, but he doesn't run baits anymore. But he's not against him and by all means, if other people want a bait, he supports it. He's like, I'll stand there right with him and I will fight for them to have baits.

Yeah, but I hope they fight for me to have dogs dogs. You know.

Well that's the thing too with like even you know, like going back to dogs, like you know, looking back and saying I don't understand it because I.

Don't do it or whatever.

But when you really get to know some of those guys, it's just the same thing for me. Like I said of like I love the thunderstorms, I love the sunsets, I love the smoke in the air of of what colors it will turn in September. And a hounsman loves watching his dogs work, And same thing with a duck hutter, you know, they they love the animal side of the dogs working and the calling of the duck. You know, it's not you know, there's so there's other reasons why people hunt.

Yeah, do I want to get up at three am and go set up decoys?

It's not really for me.

I did it for a while and I was like, this sucks. I can't I can't even unbutton my pants that go to the bathroom. My hands are so so numb. It was like all to shoot a duck that I didn't really enjoy eating. And but also what I had a dog back then, and so I did watch like watching my dog work.

Yeah, the dog loved it. Yeah, my bulldog doesn't. Yeah, she's not a duck retreating. No, probably don't swim a lot. You know, she sinks she's a bolder. So what I'm hearing is we're looking for speed, we're looking for pin gap, and we were prioritizing that over araw weight.

Well no airrowweight. Yeah, I mean as far as going over the board.

Yeah, like like saying, oh I need X amount of I need another and arrow.

No.

I if my five hundred grain arrow shoots to eighty, then That's what I'm gonna shoot. But if my four hundred and twenty grain arrow shoots to eighty. That's what I'm building. I'm not gonna build for the momentum thing. And my feelings on the momentum thing is momentum really

Right right, So I know, I know, man, it can make people crazy, like they're just like frustrated and just like, man, I really got to dial this in and it can be real confusing. So I'm really glad you kind of cleared that up.

I know.

And the good thing is is if if you get something that's pretty close and you're like, I think, I think this is the right way to are and both shooting the right pin gap and the right feet per second, I think this will work, and like be confident in the setup because we're we've been around for a long time, thirty plus years bow hunting, back when we didn't weigh arrows, we didn't don't even know what FOC was.

Yep, we I shot. I used to.

Shoot twenty six inch arrows with an overdraw with an eighty pound bow back in the eighties, right, And I don't know how fast it went.

But it it It.

Went pretty fast, it seemed like and it sounded like a thirty thirty going off when you shoot, you know, it's pretty loud, but you know those arrows penetrated good you know, I had some path through.

And that being said too, a lot of what we're talking about is what I consider being on the ground, because speed doesn't really When you go into a tree, it changes. Your distances are fixed. You can usually put flags out there or no, you've already ranged the trail. Yeah, And so you're like, okay, there's a fixed distance. It's going to be twenty five yards and under heavy arrow shoot it.

I don't care.

Not a big deal. But for what we do when elk or deer are coming in and going, they can change that distance by two yards three yards very quickly and not even notice it. And so that pin gap is more important than you know. If I was shooting hogs over bait, i'd probably shoot a heavy arrow cut on contact. You got to shoot down into the target, so you need to make sure you're getting a little bit more penetration.

You know that.

It's all good, But for really what we're talking about, elk hunting, a meal deer hunting.

It's a Western hunting. It's not the same game.

No, So that's kind of how I build mine.

Yeah, yeah, that's good. Yeah, And some of the arrows I shot in the past, i'd never even wait them before.

If you have an idelt spot, you're not going to kill them. And they're again going you've killed enough animals too, and your penetration changes. And this is where I don't think that the information that we have really is still skewed, because going back to a light animal versus a heavy animal, an alert animal versus a non alert animal, penetration depths all change.

It's all anecdotal information.

The same thing with blood trails. You know you can.

You can hit one artery and blood squirting everywhere, and you could just miss that artery. And that air hole is a half an inch difference from another air hole. Blood trails are gonna be totally different. And everybody's like, oh, I'll never use that broad head again.

It didn't bleed.

It's like, you have to be smart, you're a little scientific things for everyone's going to be due.

But what I do know is it's usually pretty quick. And so for me, if I don't watch an elk fall or hear an elk fall, I'm nervous and I'm going to take my time. I've learned that it's when it's right, it's right, and it's fast. So if if I don't hear it or see it, I'm going to really really slow down because there's no reason to ever be in a hurry.

Yeah, no, I agree, And then retracing blood. Don't get ahead of the evidence, right, that's like a quote from all CSI, you know, Hal Grisome, like, all right, got people start making assumptions, Oh, maybe it this way, maybe it went that way.

Hey, don't get ahead of the evidence. Let's stay on the blood.

I think one person can like kind of look ahead and stuff, but if you get people walking ahead and moving around and person you can mess up the blood trail if you're having a hard.

Time stepping on a couple of branches here and there, or leaves, and and you kick the leaf over. Now the blood's underneath and you stir them down there where you're trying to you know, pine needles are the worst.

Yeah, you're like picking it up. You're like I had a leaf one time, like, oh, it's just kind of red. And I tasted it and I'm like, I'll taste blood. I taste it, like, nope, that's pee. How do you know what he tastes. Well, I've smelled olk p and it tasted a lot like it smells.

Hey, you know, maybe I should. I don't want to reveal all my secrets.

Oh man, Well, hey, I appreciate you getting on here and talking about those arrows. I think sometimes we just, you know, everybody, I think a lot of people want to put the best foot forward.

We do everyone, and I think everybody's trying to give. And that's one thing with archers not saying that there's bad information out there. There's a lot of information out there, and there's not anybody on purposely trying to steer people the wrong way, right.

And.

But at the end of the day, it's like, man, you can really overthink it, or you can really go

Yeah, so I don't think there's enough infhasis on woodsmanship, yep, and understanding animals behavior, body language. All of that back to that point where some people will take a maybe a frontal shot not at the right time, or or or a longer shot. They're like, well, that was the

Yeah, well, you know, kind of going into that frontel thing. Yeah, that's a tough talk pick for a lot of folks. I like it, but I but I also know my limitations of distance to shoot it, and my thought process on this is also if I can't hit that size of a spot that I need to hit there, I've got a lot more stuff to miss on a broad side, shut right, Because so if I can't put it where it needs to be a broadside, if you shoot one

That's a lot of hair, that's a lot of high You.

Can't hardly get your knife through it, and that tells you how much energy is that robbing you to get in there. So because of that, I'm probably not. But if I was more of a spot in stock and like the you know that elk I shot when I was quiet, Yeah, I shot him perfectly broad sid He walks right in front of me with not a care in the world, not even know it, and I shot him still with a fixed head. But like I said,

Yeah, and uh.

You know, get dial in, your your your feet per second and you know you get a good hit.

Pit gap, you know all this stuff. Yeah, I was he like that when guys were like, well I want a four hundred and fifty not four hundred and twenty. And I'm like, well, if I shot you with or without the lighted knock, yeah, it's really is not going to make any difference, right.

Right, And and then also, don't yuck other people's yum.

Right. You know, if you're not into it, that's okay. Let them be into as long as it's legal.

Yeah. And if somebody does want to shoot six hundred grain, seven hundred grein and arrow, that by all means go ahead. And and I'm not you know, because I don't know you know what you're doing and why you're doing it. As long as you're out there doing it and it makes you happy. Yeah, I mean, let's.

Let's all get together, because we got enough people fighting against us, and we've got to we gotta be able to stand together as hunters and outdoorsmen. This way of life is questioned every year in my opinion.

Yeah, and it's going to become more question. I feel like people in urban society are so much further disconnected.

With with nature and their food sources.

And and hunting and all that they just don't even know they've never been around it. And if you know, if we look like a bunch of a holes fighting against each other and can't stand together, how are you to how are we gonna let's arrive?

You know that if they divide the hunters, that's it's easy way to conquer it. I mean, we see it in politics.

Yeah, Pink Floyd said it all. Yeah, united, we stand.

Divided, divided we fall. Yeah, you know, no, so just yeah, well thanks for coming on.

Man.

The wind is picking.

Up, and yeah, yesterday the winds came and destroyed our our hard display our tent got out of all these tent stars, was the only one somebody.

Was picking on.

Mother Nature didn't like your tent.

I didn't like our tent. So yeah, no, it's been a good it's been good here though. The weather's been pretty good. Got a little bit of rain, a little bit thunder, but for the most part, I'm glad I'm not shooting because it's been kind of windy.

Yeah, yeah, did you.

Shoot No, I didn't know. I didn't plan ahead and get a shoot card or whatever. Oh yeah I should have next year. Next year, Yeah, we'll have to do it.

Yeah, I didn't shoot it. I didn't have any plans to shoot.

But I feel like if I do, I want to make sure that I'm going with the group of guys that I want to go out with there and and kind of kind of do what all the other kids are doing out there, having a little sight bets and picking on each other.

Absolutely so, absolutely fun. So what do you got next?

Next up? Next time?

The summer summer fun man putting out trail cams and camping and spend time with family and and just enjoy and my summertime.

If you're doing any other tax or not, I.

Don't think so. Unless you twist my arm and make me go to Utah, I'm gonna go to Utah. I'm gonna do Elk Summit with Ryan Lamperts next weekend. Okay, So that's always do a good time.

If guys have ever get a chance to go out through that, it's it's just really cool.

You've never I've never gone.

Jason usually goes.

He asked me.

If I could go this year because he can't go and I have I have to have a funeral to go to that weekend, so I'm not gonna be able to make it.

It's a it's a really really cool deal and it's and it's it amazes me the repeat customers. Oh, we see guys.

You know, it's a fun experience.

It is.

Yeah, it's it's pretty cool to just it's kind of like Dack, you know, you get to go hang out with like minded people and it's not all about all the other stuff. There's just other things to go hang around good people. But Ryan, Ryan has a lot of great information and uh and good guest speakers and stuff like that, and so it's in it. We've been doing it in different locations all the time too, which is kind of cool.

Yeah. They always sound like an epic epic locations. You know. You got in some good hikes and just beautiful battery.

There the first time we were over there and on the other side of this mountain. Yeah, yeah, we've seen like five grizzlies the first night camped out. That was crazy hikes, long hikes. I think I'm gonna take my trad bow on the three D because he's already going I'm going to wear these guys out on this three D course. And so I'm like, well, I don't want to carry a heavy compound.

That's smart, that's smart.

I think Joel Turner and Body, we're gonna we're gonna try and shoot traditional.

Yeah, you should show body a thing or two about shit.

I will show him how to shoot the track though.

All right, well, thank you for coming on.

I'm gonna go find the little boys room about I'm about ready to have a have an accident.

So when you find you some pine needles, yeah, probably, Thanks Corey. Thanks h