Ep. 82: Applying For Big Game Tags, Part 2

I hope you guys have been doing good. Today we're gonna be just diving into part two of our Tag draw series, where I've been covering various Western state application processes and helping you figure out how to secure a tag for next season. If you missed it last week, I gave a rundown of the types of tags and the types of points in the draw system to help kind of ease some of the confusion and get you started. This week, we're gonna be covering a few of the

over the counter options. I'm going to talk about how O T seek tags should be implemented in your hunting plan, and then I'll all to give you tips on other tags to look for. I'm gonna be breaking down a few of my favorite states that we did not cover last week, and then just go through the opportunities that might be available. And then finally I think I'm just gonna give everybody my hot tip on the best place to kill a bull elk this year, so you won't

want to miss it. But before we do that, I want to share the story of a general area monster bull that ended up coming home in my backpack. Now, if you were to ask me what would be one of the epitomes of of hunting, one thing that comes to mind would be harvesting a large, mature bull in a general elk area. To me, there's just so much involved in that. I mean, yes, there's a lot of luck, but there's also a lot of time. They can be kind of few and far between. Most general areas are

more just kind of managed for opportunity. And that's not to say that there's not really big bulls in there. You know, most of my experienced elk hunting is in

general type units. Um pretty much cut my teeth growing up guiding and what would have been considered a low success area, but I found a lot of success by hunting the same area over and over, knowing it really well, really understanding those elk and finding a lot of success and over the years guiding different hunters, various hunters, you know, we would always see some of those upper echelon bulls, those those high caliber bulls, And to me, I think

anything in a general area over a three inch bull is a big bull. If you aren't familiar with like scores, what that is is just tewing up the number of inches on the antler, and a good benchmark for a mature bull is three inches for a general area. Most most elk they get killed in general areas are probably

more around two inches. And then every once in a while you'll see one that's just what I would consider a slam or just a big, big mature bowl big six by six, probably in like the three fifty class. If you're familiar with that, that's like the type of bull that you're looking for on most limited draw tags. So to be able to harvest a milk like that in a general area, it's just a very cool thing

to happen. Um. It takes a lot of luck, a lot of persistence, a lot of just being in the right place at the right time finding that animal, but it does happen, and that was a guide. We We run into those elk quite often, yet it always seems like those really big bulls, those once in a lifetime bulls if I was out hunting myself and just be like a dream bull. Of mind, those are the ones that always get missed. But this is a story of

the time that that bull did not get missed. I took a client out that he's hunted with me for a few years, and I'd spotted a group of elk with a few just normal bulls. You know, in this type area, we just really look to harvest in elk. You can't shoot a cow, but you can shoot a bull. Has to be a brow time bull. So we were

just looking for any bull elk. I spotted one the night before, and we're gonna plan on going in that area, and we're talking and we out in there early, but there was already quite a few vehicles there, and it's just like, oh, man, do we really want this rat race of racing to these elk. So we started to go in there and we were looking around and we did see elk, but we ended up not seeing the bull. He must have just moved off from the cows, and so we spotted a lot of cows that just didn't

see the illegal bull in there. So I was talking with him and the hunter and he said Oh, you know, I've I've shot quite a few elk. Now, would be fun to just, you know, one time just kind of concentrate on looking for those bigger elk that I'm always talking about that we do encounter. And I told him, I was like, you know, to find those bulls, you kind of have to go to a place where there's not as many hunters, where it's very tough hunting, and it's one of these things where you might not really

see any elk. You have to know going into it that, hey, we're gonna go hunting area that's going to be low success, it's gonna be low spotting, but it gives those bulls a little bit more chance to mature. There's a lot of timber, it's tough hunting, but if we do find an elk a bull, it will probably be a good bull, better than most of the bulls that were chasing where we were hunting. He's like, yeah, you know, I actually

feel game for that. So we move locations and you know, we're just kind of getting into this new area and it's it's heavily timbered, it's not necessarily you know, it's a little bit further than where we normally hunt. But hey, you know, I've I've seen good bulls in there. It's a good area, and with the right kind of weather and other things, you know that you never know what

could happen. So we start hunting it and I'm up on this glass and knob and I'm just glassing into these little tiny openings in the timber, and I'm looking for a bowl that I'd seen during archery season, but it figured maybe it would move into this particular region later in the year. I figured it's an isolated pocket. It's a place where a bull could hang out and not be pressured, and pretty much nobody else is gonna be looking for him because it's not an easy place

to hunt. So I'm sitting there and we were just talking, you know, kind of going over how it's pretty out here. Yeah, we might not see anything, YadA YadA. I'm glassing. I look up and I'm just like, my jaw drops, Oh my god, there's a giant bull. I've got the binoculars up. I quickly get my spotting scope out, put my spotting scope on him, just to verify what I'm seeing, make sure I'm not just losing it. And I'm like that

is a Boone and Crockett bowl. I mean, is one side is like just just a monster bowl three seventy on that one side if they matched, is what I told him. I was like, that is a that is one of the bigger bulls I've ever seen here. So we gotta make a move because it's timber. He's standing and feeding in an opening that's the size of an elk essentially, and we need to close some distance. So

it's like, go, go go. He was shooting my gun for that week, which you know, I know all the ballistics for it and everything, and it just makes it easier. I know that that gun is good and he shot it really well at the range. So we decide if we can only get a cross canyon shot, we might take a little bit further shot, but we know the gun is good for it, we know the shooter is good for it. So we're gonna get into position because there's no way we can get over there and and

relocate this bull. So he moved down real quick. We're moving down the mountain below us. I keep ranging, ranging, like too far, too far. We keep going out and hoping that this there's this hill where it can kind of make a point. We're gonna go down and then drop down, and as we're losing elevation, we're hopefully getting an open shot where we can shoot across. So we get an opening. The bulls still right there. I mean, his body is just huge. He is an old, mature

just tank of an ELK. I get my hunter set up. I'm like, all right, Mark, get ready, we said shooting. Sticks up because it's a pretty good slope. So he's rested on his knee. I range the ELK. I adjusted my scope. I'm like, okay, you know this should be good. You just need to put it right where the cross hair is and make a good shot because if if you miss or whatever, I can always adjust the scope, but I need to assume that that first shot was a good shot. It's like, sweet, we're on it. He

squeezes the trigger boom and just hits the ELK. Sweet. I'm looking through the spotting scope like, all right, shoot again. The all just soaked up. The bullet shoots again, hits it again, and we watched the bullet fall done. We're pumped. So I'm I'm just as excited as he is because this is definitely the biggest bull. I've had anybody take in the area. I've had people miss bulls that were close to this bull. But this is just an incredible elk,

So I'm pretty pumped. We hustled down. We get to the bottom below where the elk was at, and there's actually like this river stream thing running across through the canyon across the water. Climb up and I made some good notes in my mind on where this elk was. We climb up to. When we get up to him, it is just a big bodied, mature, giant bull elk. I think, you know, normally I'm not like two pumped up on whatever the score is, but we did score him.

He was a three three fifty three. If both sides match, you would have been a three seventy bowl, which for a general area elk is about as good as it gets. Just a mature animal and one of the coolest elk that I've seen in a general area on public land. My best plan for planning a hunt is to have a strategy that involves having a system where you may

obtain a more limited entry tag through a draw. So, like we talked about last week, those areas that might take some preference points and you can kind of guarantee that you'll get it in three years or maybe including in that an area that might be a random draw where hey, it's gonna be a really big bull hunt, but you know, if you get like you can get it.

And then I also like to include in the plan a plan on getting into the field if those other options don't pan out, And the best way to do this is what we call an O t C hunt formally known as over the counter hunts. I like to now refer to them as over the computer hunts. But these are just essentially tags that are generally easier to obtain and they are not needed. You don't have to get them through a draw. Now, a lot of people think, well,

they might be unlimited tags. That's not always the case. Not all over the counter tags are unlimited. Some of them may be limited, and that's important to note, but you don't have to go through a draw process to get one. It might be a first come, first serve

type deal. Um, it might be something where there is a very very large number of them and they never sell out or they rarely sell out, And there might even be some hunts where there is an unlimited number of these tags and you can get them at any time. So these type of tags are going to be the

tags that kind of get you in the field. It's a backup plan, but it's a plan that says, Okay, I can get this, I can plan my hunt, and I know that I will be hunting whatever it is, mule, your elk, potentially antelope, something that you want to get into and get it in on a hunt. My suggestion when you're kind of looking at your application strategy and you're saying, Okay, I'm gonna pick these states and maybe you've got New Mexico is a random draw state. You say, oh,

Colorado is a really good preference point state. There's some tags that I can draw there on you know, one or two points, three points, something like that. Maybe get into a more limited hunt, but not necessarily in over the counter hunt that has a lot more hunters. And then I would say plan and over the counter type hunt in a state that you might already be applying in because a lot of places that you apply you have to buy a hunting license, you've got to buy

preference points, you're already spending money there. You might be able to cut some of that costs and just say, hey, this is gonna be the state that I'm going to also plan in over the counter option, because you've already you're already money in with that license that you had to buy to even apply for that state. Um, so you aren't necessarily wasting money with that hunting license. But

you say, Okay, I can get in here. I can get in on a hunt if I don't draw out, if I don't draw one of these other tags, and then I can start planning that hunt now like I'm going on it, so I don't have to wait to draw something. And a lot of people might hear this and say, why would I even apply in the draw And that's a really good question, because I think this is a really good way to get you in the

hunt that you want to get on. Also, I think a good idea with applying in a state that you're also looking at over the counter options is you're doing in a place where you have an opportunity to hunt and familiarize yourself with the types of areas in that proximity. If you're saying, well, what over the counter state should I choose? What over the counter hunt is the best?

You know, realistically it's one that's in a close proximity to you that you can get to where you might even have the potential of the go scouting, or where it's not a huge distance or not as much of a distance, where you can get in there and maybe go multiple times and maybe save a little bit of money on the travel. But also there's a lot of people I understand and say, hey, I'm gonna do this once, maybe twice. Um, where's the best place to do it?

So I think what I'm gonna do is I'm just gonna break down kind of all the things you need to know about over the counter units, how to pick a good area, what to look for, and some things that are important for over the counter options. When it comes to over the counter tags, I've seen a lot of changes to the landscape of tags. Especially with these more available tags, it's getting more popular. I'm not gonna be oblivious to say podcasts like this don't lend to

that popularity. But I also like to think that I'm not ruining it for everyone, as much as I might suck to say, I really don't know if over the counter type opportunities will be around forever. You see a lot of these these opportunities kind of starting to dwindle in the last few years, and it seems to be a lot of areas are on that path. I think

there's a lot of factors involved in that. Maybe it's more hunters, but also you know, changes in the way people are managing things, increases in pressure, maybe decreasing numbers of animals in certain areas. You know, you look at maybe Colorado will see what the wolf situation does in the future, how that affects the populations. They have had

the highest populations of elk over most states. But as they start changing some of the season dates, as they start changing some of the numbers, as they introduce predators, we never know where that's going to turn. So all these things are very fragile, very dynamic. But for the most part, if you're thinking about doing this, I would say I wouldn't put it off. I would do it in the next one to five years, because who knows

how long these opportunities will be around. And you don't want to be kicking yourself saying, man, I used to have that option to go over there and just pick that tag up, and now I'm behind the curve and it's not going to be an option for me. So that's just something to think about, some food for thought when you start looking at some of these over the counter tags. They know a lot of people think about putting them off, but like they're always going to be there.

I've done that as well. There's some tags that I've wanted to hunt and now it's too late. So that's just something to think about as we talk about some

of these over the counter options. I honestly believe if you were to talk about elk success or if if I had the option right, if I was to say, Okay, I can hunt an area that's lower quality, but I can hunt it five times times, or I can hunt a area that's higher quality, but I can only hunt it once in five years, I would choose the go hunting five years as opposed to the hunting once in

a better area. And I really kind of look at that as what makes over the counter tags so attractive, so appealing, and actually almost a better opportunity than a lot of other hunts that are out there. Over the countertype hunts are often in areas where you're exchanging quality for opportunities. So the management strategy in here is saying, hey, let's give people an opportunity. If you're out in the field, you have a chance to be successful, you have a

chance to harvest. What that leads to is it often leads to larger numbers of hunters. But that does not mean that there's not some incredible hunts. And I honestly believe that some of the best hunting opportunities out west currently are in over the counter tag areas because you have the option of learning the area, of learning the animals, learning their behavior, and finding success over a span of time.

I would like to say, if you're planning on thinking about an over the counter hunt, if you can, if you're like, Okay, I'm gonna save up and go on one elk hunt in my life, so I want to be a good elk hunt, I think you'd be better off finding a cheaper elk hunt and going twice. That's that's what I mean to say, because you can go on that one elk hunt in a better area but still not have that experience and needed to be successful.

That's really my selling point with a lot of these type of tags is you can pick them up and they're also a great backup plan if you don't draw something, or don't have the preference points, or you're just getting into it. So I think the first step now is going to be just kind of discussing some of the over the counter U states. So for elk, you've got Colorado, Idaho, Oregon, Washington, Utah, and then Montana also has a few over the counter

cow elk tags in those states. Not all over the counter tags are in every unit, so you have to pick one of those states, get the regulations, and see what opportunities are available. Most over the counter tags are based on a season, so it might be an archery season. I know, like Oregon and Washington have some great over the counter Roosevelt elk hunting, and then a lot of the Rocky Mountain elk hunting general areas is either limited to maybe a cow, a spike, or an archery season.

Idaho has some great over the counter tags for both rifle and archery. They're split up in rifle or archery. Now you have to buy those by a certain date, and unfortunately this year is the first year that has happened. They changed a lot of things and those tags are no longer available over the counter right now because they need to be purchased by December one. And then you've got Colorado, which has um an archery season. Generally it

has two rifle seasons. Like a they break most of their elk seasons into four seasons, and so normally the second and third are available as a general area in some in some places, so there are options there. And then Montana has a feed cow tags and Utah has a few archery tags as well as some units that are over the counter bull elk tags for deers, some of your over the counter options are gonna include Oregon, Idaho, Arizona, Washington, California UM and then for meal there also there's tags

available in Nebraska and South Dakota. Each one of those states. That varies depending on whether it's archery over the counter, whether there's some rifle over the counter Arizona and Oregan or mostly archery over the counter. Idaho has some rifle over the counter. California has rifle and archery over the counter, as well as some seasons that allow you to hunt archery and rifle UM So if you don't harvest in the archery season, you can hunt during the rifle season.

And then for antelope, as far as I know, I think the only over the counter options for antelope are archery tags in Nebraska in a few areas in Colorado. And then one of the probably one of the most available over the counter hunts would be a bear tag. Almost every Western state offers some bear tag, whether it be spring or fall season, over the counter, So that's always a great option to say, like, Hey, I want to get out West, I want to do a hunt,

I didn't draw a tag. What can I hunt? Bear tags are really good tag to look at and think about because you can pick those tags up for the most part, even right before you hunt, so it's not something that you have to necessarily plan ahead of time. Most those tags are available and kind of unlimited quantity,

so that's always a great option. Now, outside of over the counter tags or OTC tags, you know, some states will actually offer a draw tag that turns into an O t C tag when those are under served hunts. So almost every state that as a draw system offers everything in the draw and then the tags that aren't taken to the main draw will then be offered or main first or second draw will be offered first come, first serve basis, So these are often just dough tags,

cow elk tags. But many years you might find some underserved tags that can really be some great hunts, especially when you're comparing it to other maybe preference point hunts or an other regular over the counter hunts that have higher numbers of hunters. Maybe these have a limited number of hunters, so you know, it's also another good option, and I think really gets overlooked by a lot of people.

I think that you find more of these happening in preference point states, but I've seen leftover tags sold over the counter in Wyoming, Colorado, New Mexico, and Arizona very frequently. Most of these are just great options, and they're going to be in units that might have who knows, like a a high number of animals. They offer a high number of tags, but a lot of people don't want to use their preference points to obtain those tags or

um draw those tags. There's also um some of those seasons where it's it's a season where you're in a good unit, but it's just a season that it's very difficult to find animals. So it might be a mule deer tag that's in the middle of October, which is often the hardest time to find mule deer. So those kind of tags do exist, and that's definitely something that

you want to look out for. UM when these underserved hunt's become over the counter tags and you can kind of get on a mailing list for each state you're interested in or when you've applied, and pay attention to those tags when they come available, and you just got to be ready to buy them first come, first serve when they are when they do come available. There's a lot of different things. If if I'm sitting down, I'm like, Okay, I've got my hunt plan, I've got a few applications

out right. I I personally apply everywhere, but I've been doing it for years. I think there's some states that might not necessarily be great to jump into now. But when I'm looking at what I'm planning for the fall, I'm always right now before I even apply, assuming or planning on some form of over the counter tag because of my hunts that I do out of state are on these over the counter type tags, because I just can't guarantee that I'm going to get a tag somewhere

through the draw. And I think that that UM is the way that most people probably find hunting out of state, especially when it comes to meal Doar Elk out West. So what I look for when I'm deciding units, I first look for areas and I look at the public land and the access in that unit. I look at season dates, the type of hunts available, then the type of other tags and seasons in there, and then I kind of asked myself, are there draw tags in the unit?

And then I look at a little bit of the statistics for each area, including success, hunter congestion, and then the land type uses. So I'm gonna break all those down and kind of run through those. And these are things that just go through my mind when I'm looking in over the counter tag. So let's say I pick a state I use I mean there's a lot of different companies out there, or you could just pick up applications and regulations for each state and just understand, okay,

where are these over the counter tags? Um, I use go hunt a lot. I also like to look in the regulations of myself and just flip through and say, okay, I outline some over the counter tags. Then I'll pull out like my ONYX maps and I'll do a little bit of research on that. Tag. So I'm gonna say how am I of this area? So I'll go through all the areas. I'll write them down and say how much of this is public land? Or is there access

going to be difficult? And now, because you've got to think, Okay, they're offering these tags in a large quantity or kind of in a without a draw system. Why is that? Is it because there's a lot of land they want to provide opportunity, or is it because a lot of it's private and nobody has access to it? So they want to incentivize those people with private land to be

able to harvest the animals. So you gotta look at that and you go, Okay, just because it's a lot of private land not is not necessarily a deal breaker for me. As long as there is some kind of fringe hunting, it might still be a good tag. If I look at it and go, this is all private land. It doesn't look like there's any good areas in here mixed in, there's no checkerboarding. Move on to the next one and find an area where there's something that I can hunt. Then I'm going to also look at, Okay,

what kind of hunts are there? Or is it an archery hunt? Why why are these tags available over the counter? Is it an archery hunt? Is is there some offseason dates available? Is it a unit that for whatever reason, they just have a lot of tags available? So it's probably got maybe a high population, but maybe it's got some rugged country, some really remote areas. What's that land look like and what kind of hunts are there? And then I'll also dive into looking at an area and

say what other seasons are in this unit. One thing that I like to look for is an over the counter tag where all the other tags there might be a draw hunt. And that does happen in a lot of places. Arizona, there's a lot of draw units that you can go hunt deer on and over the counter archery tag. There's places in Oregon, Um, Washington where you might be able to pick up an archery tag that all the other seasons are limited draw limited entry units. Idaho does that, a lot of units in a lot

of states having over the counter tag. Any unit that's a draw for something else, So that always appeals to me. Okay, maybe I can get in and if I choose a different weapon, if I decided to go with a bow, that might limit my success a little bit, but it also allows me to maybe find, hey, this is a quality area that other people are waiting a long time to draw, and I might be able to get in

and hunt. Another thing is just those changes in season dates where you might be able to pick up a leftover tag or a tag that somebody didn't want because it's harder hunting, but it's that offseason date, so I know that, hey, it's more of an opportunity. If I have that tag, I can get out and I might be able to find what I'm looking for. So these are all things that I consider when building out which

area to pick and which hunt to go on. Then the last thing that I look for is I kind of look at um any published success rates, and I would say, when you're looking at success rates for unit, you know you you can flip through regulations, you can go to state websites, look online, and you might see, okay,

what's the success rate. And if you just compare success rate to success rate of different over the counter units and choose it that way, I think that that's not a very way to choose the unit because there's a lot of different factors in those success rates that are not reported in that number, And this is the way that I look at it, and I think it's a fair assumption that's going to help you build out like a better idea of this is a good unit for me. So the first thing I ask is what kind of

reporting is there? Because I've seen units that I've researched and I look and I go, a hundred percent success here, And then you look and say, well, reporting isn't mandatory. They survey a certain random sample and in this particular area, they called one person out of who knows how many that had tags, and that person killed the elk, and they report success. Yet there's other areas where reporting is mandatory.

Everybody has to report. You see that the report success was and you see a success rate, and that shows you how many people actually hunted and actually we're successful. So you first have to just take those success rates with a grain of salt. And the second thing I kind of ask is I like to figure out whether it's a bull hunt, a cow hunt or both. You know, you might have a one unit that reports a success rate but you have to shoot a brow time bull

and another unit that shows a success rate. But you can shoot a cow or a ble or a spike, you know, so you have to really compare those based on not just those numbers, but what's available and say what's better for me? If I go into an area, do I want to be able to harvest anything, whether it's a bowl or a cow. I just want a

good opportunity at success. Then you might be kind of gravitating towards that unit where you could shoot a bowl or a spike or a cow, as opposed to that other area where you can only shoot a brow time bull. But that brow time bowl area, if you're like, hey, I want to get a nice mature bull, you go. It's a pretty high success rate for the type of outcome looking for. You know, it's not just the numbers not higher than this other area, but what I'm looking

for makes it a better unit for me. Now, the other factor that I like to look at in order to own areas is a congestion and just the number of hunters that might be in that area. But I also like to compare that to the type of land. So I look at and say, okay, how many hunters are are hunting this area, and then how big is the unit? What is the hunter congestion per public mile, like the ability of me being able to go out

and hunt. How many hunters might be just as like a metric to compare to places, how many hunters might be using that area. And then what kind of area is Is it a heavily wilderness area or is it a very timbered area. Is it heavily roaded, is it logged? Is it burned? What does it look like? And how big is that unit? If I look at the unit, I say, wow, there's roads everywhere in here, and there's no wilderness area and it's a very small unit and

it's got high numbers. Well, that might for my personal hunting style might not be as good as an area that now I look at and say, okay, this area is four times the size, but it has three times the hunters. The hunter congestion per public mile is lower, and there's some really big wilderness areas that I could probably get away from a lot of those people. So for me personally, that's good, but for someone else it

might not be. So this is how I kind of research these these over the counter areas and decide what what's right for me. Now, you might look at that heavily roaded area you might say has a lot of tags, and then you go back and look look at the success and it might have a higher success rate. You say, hey, this is the kind of hunt that I want. I want to be able to go out. It's obviously got a lot of animals, there's a lot of hunters, a

lot of them are successful. I'll probably find something I won't have to get too far away or or pack in somewhere, and I'll have a good reasonable chance of success. That might be the kind of hunt you're looking for. And that's kind of how you can decipher those hunts when you're looking at all these over the counter tags and just pulling up these different statistics that might be reported. I think, with a little bit of leg work, over the counter options are are a must and a reality

for most people. It's a must to research and then add into the plan, and it's an honest reality for most hunters. I think that a lot of people always want to go for the biggest and the best, But the bulk of um hunts taken, the bulk of elk and deer taken, are probably or hunts that people go on are in these o t C type areas. And that is especially true because most of these states for residents, A lot of these areas that might even be draw

for non residents or over the counter for residents. So when you're looking at hunters overall and the hunting experience, over the counter tags play a huge portion of that game of getting people in the field and giving people an opportunity. And I think it's really good when you're thinking about planning out your hunts and when we talk about draws and how do you get a better hunt, but how do you also plan on going on a hunt?

This is the way to do it. So I like to originally when I set out my plan, I start to think and look at and research over the counter options and plan for that hunt like I'm going on it.

Then I do the draw and if it doesn't happen, and then I plan on going on this other hunt because it's while I'm playing that waiting game, I need to gain that experience out in the field hunting, and that is really I think the best way to look at these over the counter tags, and I really think that these are some of the best hunts out West, and the best hunts that you know you can get into and gain that experience. Now let's take a little look.

We're kind of moving back out of the over the counter stuff, and I'm gonna be going over the remaining state breakdown that I didn't cover last time, So that would be Idaho, Oregon, Washington, New Mexico, Colorado, and California.

And I'm just gonna give you my take on each state and the opportunities and tag systems available, because what I really wanted this whole thing to be was just a look at the tag systems out west, especially for those that aren't very familiar with it, or maybe I've never thought about going across state lines to hunt somewhere where they don't have opportunity where they live. And so if you have all the states broken down, I think you can kind of pick something that's best for you

and works best for you. Now, let's just start with um Idaho. I think in the past, Idaho's been known as probably one of the best over the counter states, but recent changes really kind of made that difficult to obtain some tags there, so most of them were purchased on December first, and I don't necessarily know that um there's much left for that but things might pop up

after the draw. They also have a draw system as well for a lot of good areas, and in that state, you have to choose either elk, deer and antelope, So you can go elk deer antelope and that's do in June, or you can choose one of the falling moose, sheep, goat. Now, if you apply for moose, you cannot apply for elk deer ori antelope, and you cannot apply for sheep or goats. So you can pick one of the once in a lifetime tags, or you can kind of go and apply

for each three of the elk, deer and antelope. That makes sense, and the reason they do that is because they have no points system, but they kind of want to shuffle hunter and demand, so that kind of helps with the odds, or it really helps with the odds because Idaho really does have the best draws for moose, sheep, and goat in the West, and then it has pretty decent odds for the elk, deer, antelope in some some pretty good units and no everybody's kind of on the

same playing field, so it is a good place to apply if you're interested in one of those. Another good thing. The kind of way that I incorporate Idaho into my plan is the deadline to apply for elk and deer and Antelope is a lot later than most states in June, so you might even know if you apply in another state whether you drew a tag or not. So it's a good state to consider. It's kind of a last ditch attempt at drawing something before purchasing and over the

counter tag. Now, Oregan organ is a preference point system. They also have they have a random draw for their sheep, so that one is random that's not on points, which I think is actually pretty good because for sheep tags because they're so limited. You know, if you have a preference point system in your state, sheep people just getting into it or people one point behind max are never going to get to tag in most in most cases, so having a random draw of that kind is nice.

But then the preference points for everything else allow you to kind of maybe plan or build up to a certain amount of points. And then they also have over the counter tags for elk and deer um. The point creew is pretty bad in Oregon and you probably won't draw like a limited entry high end tag there unless you've been already started for a while. I hate to have to say that, but it's probably true. There are

some decent over the counter hunts though. They include Roosevelt elk, Rocky Mountain elk for archery, blacktails, and meal deer, So there is a lot of option there, especially if you're like, hey, what over the counter tags do I get or have an option at? There's some really good hunts in there for that. Washington is a bonus point draw, but it

actually for non residents it can be quite expensive. There's quite a few general units that aren't necessarily over the counter, but you can draw, and those are a good option if you're applying for something else, then you kind of have that over the counter je general tag type mentality you're okay, I'm gonna go elk hunting there. It's a good state to apply for. And then there are some other over the counter options for Roosevelt elk and blacktail deer,

so there's a lot of options there. Um. I think it actually is often an overlooked state. There is quite a bit of public land, and then there's a lot of private land that you can get on timber company land where you kind of have to go to the Timber Company and then get permission, or you can get into a lottery for some private lands, and or you can have to purchase it at a certain time. But it is it's not a bad option because it gives you a place to hunt and some over the counter

tags as well. New Mexico I think as a state that gets talked about a lot, and for good reason. It's got no points. It has some of the best elk hunting, has some great deer hunting, some phenomenal antelope hunting, and everybody's on a even playing field. Uh, there's lots of options to draw as well as there's places with better odds. So in a state without points, you know you're really looking at playing the and my suggestion is

always trying to find areas with lower draw odds. Now, the unfortunate part about New Mexico is some of those tags you look at it and a lot very few are given to non residents, and there's most of them are given in the guide draws. So I've applied. I started guiding down in New Mexico I think when I was like nineteen, and I've applied in that state ever since then. I've drawn one tag, and then I know people that have applied their first year and drawn premier

best delk hunt in the country type tags. So I think a lot of luck factors in but um, one of the options is to go into the guide draw. You know, hey, I might want to hire a guide. You're gonna have a little bit better odds that way, um. And then there's a few deer permits that go left over. Also if you elk permits, mostly cow permits, and there's a lot of youth tags there, so if you've got kids that you want to apply, that's a really great state for youth tags. They offer a lot of good

opportunity for youth hunters. And then you can also sometimes find those dear permits as left over as well as some elk permits or whatever left over. And then there's a lot of landowner tags in that state that necessarily

aren't super expensive, so that's also an option. Colorado is a pure preference points so the tag goes to the one with the most points, but there are areas that take fewer points in Colorado, and I think that the high point units will really be unreachable for those starting out. If you're getting started or whatever, you're gonna want to look toward those low point areas. There are a lot of them, and you can kind of play and you'll see some that take you know, people have drawn with

zero points. So even just going in without any points, you might want to apply for that area, maybe get lucky before thinking about and over the counter option, or maybe find you know, kind of hone in on a few areas, do a little bit of research on two or three areas that take a low amount of points, and then look at applying for those areas, and then that way, when you draw that tag, you might get a tag um. Also, there's you know, there is a

lot of over the counter tags. I'd say Colorado right now currently is the king for O T C elk hunting. It's got the most elk, it's got the most available ability of elk tags, plus the option to plan, and it's closer to most people. So I think that's why it draws a lot of people. It's got a lot

of selling points for sure. You can also think about pairing a deer tag with an elk tag, so you could look for like the elk and deer tag seasons run coherent, but most there aren't necessarily over the counter deer tags, but you might be able to find a deer tag in and over the counter elk area that might take a couple of years to draw or whatever. Sequence.

Kind of try to plan your hunt that way, where you get a tag and then you you pick up an over the counter ELK tag in an area that you draw a deer or you hunt over the counter elk areas in an area that you might realistically draw deer tag. So you're actually hunting and scouting simultaneously, and you're looking around, you're out there, you're in the field, and you go, oh, this is a cool ELK area. I'm learning the area. So when I cash in my points for a deer cha, ching already know the unit.

And there's a lot to put on knowledge. I believe that I've said it a thousand times, but if you know that unit, you know where things are at, you know where to start looking. When you do secure tag or when you do go in there to hunt, every time, it's going to be a little bit better each time. So really, I think you know the way I see

Colorado's is probably one of the best backup bets. August three is the date that tags go on sale for the leftover licenses, and then you know, you look into areas that may have drawn or may have been drawn in the second draw as well, and you can kind of focus in on those. So your points are only used if you draw out on your first choice, so you can kind of look at, hey, was there any tags drawn in that second choice. Also, you know, are

there any leftover tags? And those leftover tags might be able to be picked up over the counter, first come, first serve as opposed to some of the other units, and might be a good thing to focus on a little bit of a tip there. California. Um, it's kind of a modified preference system for non residents. Really the only thing you can realistically draw would be a deer tag.

They do have elk and sheep and antelope, but they give one non resident tag and it could be a like up to one and if one is drawn, like if someone drew a I always apply for the Julee elk And if someone draws a cow Roosevelt elk tag, that and not restand tag has gone. So it's it's essentially just a donation for those. But um, you know, they do have a modified preference for deer, so a small portion or random draw, but most of them are on that preference point the top areas or can be

difficult to draw. You got just like anywhere with preference points, you get quite a bit of point creep. But I will say there are a lot of good over the counter deer options there. UM. They've got a lot of different species of meal. Theres. So the giant meals are you see in Colorado, You're not going to see in California. But if you understand that hay, these are a hybrid of a blacktail UM, they're a desert type mule deer.

If you understand the type of meal there in the subspecies that they are, UM, it can be a pretty good hunt. And there's a lot of a lot of tags available, archery tags as well as unit specific tags. You can hunt archery and rifle UM. And then there's also you know, I think probably some of the best over the counterfall bear hunting in the country is in California,

and I think that that's highly overlooked. I know there's gonna be people being like, don't give out our secret, but you we don't know how long that bear hunt will be around so support it, and then if you're one of the people that's gone and done it, you know you might be hopefully be able to keep that going for the future. Now, as promised in the beginning of the podcast, I said, I'm gonna give my super secret best place to kill an elk, And honestly, I

will tell you this secret. It's anywhere that you can get a tag. And I know that sounds like a cop out, but I mean it to say this that it's better to hunt than not. You know, saving points is really eight but you can't get a bull without a tag in your pocket or a buck or whatever. So too many people, I I believe, are just worried about whether it's going to be a good hunt or not. Is this the best area? Is this what? Oh? But I could wait twenty seven years and and get this

good hunt, which I think is awesome to do. In some instances, I I do that as well, but I'm also using other hunts to look for or other types of tags to make sure that I can get out and hunt. Um, you make it a good hunt. So if you're like worried about it being a good hunt, you're the one that makes it a good hunt, especially if you can hunt it for a few years. You know, I could really tell you the places where the biggest bulls in the country come from. It's not hard to

figure out. There's units in Utah, Nevada, in Arizona where some giants come out of but not being able to get at tagged as you know good. So my super secret place to kill an elk is anywhere you can pick up a tag, just get out and get hunting. I and I personally don't like to give out hot specific area or picks because excuse the odds, unnecessarily and by unnecessarily, I mean it might be a really good area with a certain type of elk densities and big bulls, this,

that and the other thing. But you know, if you skew those odds, there might be another place that is just as good that you can actually get into and hunt. And so I know, I don't like to use my platform to kind of skew the odds in certain areas. So pick a place that you can have access to hunting um, where you can easily get too if possible, and where you can actually get out, and that's the secret sauce. So where I like to hunt is never

really better than another. Spot is just where I find myself with a tag and I make good on it. And sometimes I try to find those places where I can do that year after year, and over the years I find a lot of success that way. I hope this helps you guys, get a grasp on some of the options that are out there and get you pointed

in the right direction for getting into a hunt. You know, I found a large portion of the listeners are looking to go on a Western hunt, and I just keep getting like the biggest hurdle is where do I even get started. It seems like there's an endless amount of land. There's all these options, restricted draws. My head's exploding. I don't know what to do, and then they just paralysis by analysis and it just ends up being that dream that's on the back burner as opposed to something that's

in the planning portion. So I know some of the kind of the tag stuff can get a little dry, but I also kind of geek out on it because it's something that I've done for so long, and I really enjoy this time of year. It's fun to jump in, it's fun to do this kind of research is fun to look for options and dream of the hunts that you can go on and plan something for the future and maybe look for something to do right now. And

that kind of stuff pumps me up. And I know that it's a lot of things that people that listen are are asking, because I know there's a lot of you out there that you're like, I'm listening to this guy about all these Western big game hunts, elk hunting, mule, you're hunting um, public land hunting. Yet where I live isn't like that, and so you know, you're just building up this knowledge base until you one day get out

and get to do it. And I think that this is a good learning lesson, especially for people that you know where you hunt or where you live. You know, maybe look around the map and you're like, hey, it's not that far for me to go over here and maybe have another opportunity. There's not over the counter tags where I live, but I could go drive seven to fifteen hours and maybe get on a hunt once every five, ten years, whatever. It doesn't really matter. So yeah, I

hope that that helps. Before we go, I just want to remind everyone if you have questions, now is the time, because we're coming up on a new Q and A. So it can be anything about tag draws, archery, hunting, just general life advice. I don't know, throw something out there. UM. The best way to do that you can send it to me on Instagram at Remy Warren, send me a

direct message. I try to scroll through those, screenshot the ones that I'm like, oh, that's a cool question, and then try to read those through our Q and A s. So anything you guys got like, try to keep them timely and based on some of the recent podcasts. If you got those, those are coming up. Also, thank everybody for the rating reviews. I really appreciate those. I saw a kind of some new ones pop up. So wherever you listen to the podcast, if you want to give

us a rating and a review, I appreciate that. And that's really it. This will conclude our application series and on that note, goodbye and good luck.