Ep. 81: Applying For Big Game Tags, Part 1

of it as application season. Applying is as much a part of the hunting process, especially out West, as getting into the field, because the reality is you can't hunt without a tag, so it's really going to be the first step in the planning phase before we go out hunting. For a lot of people, securing a tag may seem daunting, especially those that are new to it, because the draw systems can be difficult to wade through an understand, and planning for hunts can be confusing with so many deadlines,

different types of point systems. It's just a real process. Lucky for you. I've been playing this game across the West for many years, so over the next few weeks, I want to bring to light the various processes and break down some of the nuances of applying and securing a tag. In this week's tag draw breakdown, we're gonna be focusing in on the basics the types of tags and points that are available, and how point creep will affect you, and whether or not it's too late for

you if you're just getting started. We'll also do a dive into some of the upcoming state draws and glaze over a couple of states, including Wyoming, Arizona, Utah, Nevada, and Montana. But first, let's share a story of a hunt when I got past the point creep and cashting on some preference points for California mule deer tag. My first real experience with what people like to call point

creep happened on a California deer tag. Growing up in the state of Nevada, everything that you would hunt had to be on a draw system, so there was no over the counter tag, So I kind of started at a very young age looking towards other places the hunt that were nearby, California being one of them. More places that I knew Montana, especially because my grandpa lived up there and I spent a lot of time up there

looking at applying in other places. So maybe if I didn't draw a tag around home or in my home state that I might have the opportunity to hunt other places. I was looking at through the regulations some of the California stuff. I know, there was an archery area that took two points to draw, So I was like, sweet, that's close enough by I can I can hunt that. It seems like it could be a cool hunt. Um, I'm gonna started applying for that. So I started applying.

I finally got my two points. I was like, cool, I applied and didn't draw the tag. What the heck happened here? And so then it was like that year For some reason, I think it just became a more popular unit and now needed four points a couple more years. So I applied the next year with the three points nothing. Finally got those four points. You know, everything looked like it would draw with four points, didn't draw. I'm like, what is going on? I couldn't figure it out. You know.

The state was on a preference point system, which was completely different than the bonus point systems many other places. You had to have the most points to get a tag. So I applied again five points nothing. Then on my sixth year of applying, I finally drew the tag that when I started out only needed two points to get. I'm like, sweet, Okay, Well, it just so happened that I also drew a lot of other tags that year

as well. I drew a Nevada elk tag, and Nevada analope tag, and a Nevada deer tag, all archery tags, and then I had a Montana limited entry meal dear permit, a general elk license, and then this California tag that took me six years to get. But I was only thinking it was gonna take me too, so I wanted to kind of give it a good go. But I also had a lot of other tags and a lot

of limited amount of time. All these tags were like early season archery hunts from the beginning of August through pretty much September, so I need to make good on this tag with a limited amount of time. I spent quite a bit of time during the summer scouting, and I really didn't see as many deer as I thought I would. For waiting that long for that deer tag. I thought, Okay, I've been in a lot of other

limited entry areas. I should be seeing a lot of deer, and it just was not turning up the numbers of bucks that I thought I should. I ended up hunting my other uh those three Nevada tags antelope, elk, and deer, and tagging out on all of them fairly early, and I ended up hunting like my antelope for a day and my buck might Nevada deer for two days. And then ended up having time to before the California season.

I planned to start Opening Day, but I had a few days before the season to start scouting a lot closer to the season, so I took that time. I packed into some good high alpine areas where I thought I might find some summering bucks. It just really didn't turn up what I was looking for, so I kind of refocused my attention to a burn area. There's a lot of little regrowth in there, says an older burn, but short little pines, And sure enough I spotted like

a good bachelor group of buck. Sweet, this is gonna be awesome. So Opening Day rolls around, find myself on a glassing knob, turning up some younger bucks and some other a lot of doughes, but not necessarily the type of buck I'm looking for. I didn't really have any size expectations. I just wanted to harvest a mature buck and that was all that I thought. It would be cool to get a mature deer out of there and really do that tag justice, especially because I hadn't seen

a lot of deer. I actually saw probably more bears

than deer um. So I hunt the tag and I wasn't seeing anything kind of glassing and move spots, and midday I'm looking up into this place like a betting area, and I see a bachelor group of meal dere There's a couple of smaller bucks and then one nice mature three by four looks pretty heavy, Like, oh sweet, that would be an awesome buck to take, So I just keep glassing, watching, watching, and all the younger bucks like start going down into this creek bottom and the big

three by four, the buck that I was after, ends up just like peeling off and going off on his own, and I'm like, oh, yeah, this is perfect. Fewer eyes. Now, I just got to make sure that I don't lose him. So he ends up going up over a ridge and I'm like, it's a lot of cover over here, and I could lose him. So I end up running like hustling it from my glassing vantage to another glassing point where I know I'll be able to see into where he went. And sure enough I spot him and he

starts moving up the mountain. I'm like, okay, well, I'm just gonna have to follow him. So I kind of just follow him at distance where I can keep eyes on him, and I just watch him finally get to a place where I can get a good view of him. But it's really thick, short little conifers, and he ends up going behind this like just out in this wide open area, but it's just all this regrowth and just

plops down, beds down. I'm like, oh, perfect, But the type of terrain, it's kind of hard to actually pinpoint exactly where he's at because as I'm moving in, it's all the same. It's like little tiny pine trees and like this man's anita brush that's really thick and about waist high. So I started glassing in there. As I get closer, I planned out my stock and luckily I see antler tips just poking up above the man's in need. It's like a big fuzzy velvet rack of a nice

mature and meal deer buck. I'm like sweet, I range it and it's like a hundred and something yards and I've got good wind. The winds actually blowing down the mountains. So I figured generally the bucks that I think the reason that buck, the bigger, more mature buck, cruised off as the wind wasn't right for all the other bedding locations, so he went off where he could lay down kind of facing downhill and the wind would be coming down

at his back. Luckily for me, it was so thick where he bed he actually didn't have a very good view. So my decision was, instead of going in from above him, I was going to sneak up from below. The trouble with that approaches he's looking that direction, but I could keep tabs on him because I could just see his antler tips above the brush. So I creep in a little shoes off situation. Pop my boots off, crawl in with my socks, leave my pack, and I'm creeping in

and just like ranging. As I get closer and the arranging points where I can get to you, just trying to be super quiet through this thick stuff. The wind starts to pick up, which gives it a good little rattle, so I know that I'm my sound is a little bit more dampened, and I keep creeping in and then

his antlers disappears. He must be asleep, so I move a little bit faster, get into position and set up range, and then his antlers come back up range thirty yards and I just keep this bush where his head is so I know that I can't see his eyes, so he can't see me, and he's facing me like okay, and there's this one little opening and it's just worked out perfect where his head was behind some brush and his body was over here. So I get set I'm like, okay,

pick my pin that I'm gonna use to think about it. Drawback. And now I'm drawing back like below the brush line, but I'm gonna have to stand to shoot, so I slowly stand up. My thought was I could see whereas he was bedded, and I knew that I could get a shot of him while he was bedded. So I draw back and he's just bedded perfect. Gives me that open kind of like broadside shot, nothing in the way. I'm only thirty yards away. He has no clue I'm there.

I settle the pin and release the arrow, perfect shot. The buck runs maybe ten yards I don't even know if you're running that like ten yards up the hill and then disappears. Sweet. So I sit down and give it a few minutes, go look blood trail. I'm like, oh, this is perfect, and walk up there's the buck. Awesome like heavy three by four, gnarly little bases and just

a really cool, really cool buck. I was super stoked take that buck, especially for the tag that I thought was only gonna take me two years but ended up taking me six. You really can't talk about elk hunting, mule you're hunting, antelope hunting, big horn sheep hunting without talking first about tag draws and applications. It's kind of

unique to Western big game hunting. But the tag system is just an attempt to allocate the resource of each state in what would seem like a fair way, or in a way that makes sense because there's a limited number of resources and and now a growing number of

people that want access to those resources. Western big game hunting is often different than a lot of other maybe like further East hunting or white tail hunting, in the way that we have these large tracts of public land and then we have species that maybe have lower densities than you might see in white tail areas or or whatever. So we need to figure out a way that people can kind of get those tags and have a hunt. But also those tags are used to manage wildlife populations

in different ways. Some are used to manage them with um more mature animals, Some are used to manage wildlife populations like reduce the numbers. There's there's a lot of different ways that tags are allocated to manage the resource. But for all intents and purposes, every state is a little bit different. But I would say that most states have some form of lottery that tries to allocate those tags.

And understanding those different points systems, those different systems for every state really is the first step in obtaining a tag and understanding and kind of creating your own plan on how you're going to get a tag so you can go out hunting this fall, next fall, maybe a few years down the road. So to start out, I think we really need to just break down the different types of categories of points and the different types of

tags available. So we first off have different systems of applying and I would say they're kind of all fall under one of these categories, which would be bonus points, preference points than a modified preference point, a random draw tag, and then over the counter tags. Some states have multiple of these systems, so we're gonna break those down right now. Let's start with a bonus point. The bonus point his a system where the longer you apply for tags, the

more favor you have in the draw. So let's say, just in a basic form, you've been applying for five years, so you get five names in the hat, and the person that's been applying for one year gets one name in the hat. Everybody's names in the hat. This is obviously computerized, but I'm just giving you an example. Some six the hand in the hat pulls out a name. Now, the person that applied the first time could get drawn, but the person that's been applying longer has more uh

probability of their name being pulled. Now, most states that do the bonus point, actually, like states like Nevada and Montana, square your number of points, so as time goes on, your your chance exponentially increases above the person that was before you. So if you have one name, if it's your first year applying, you get that year's name that one. But if you've been applying for ten years, you have ten times ten should be a hundred plus that year's

once you have a hundred and one. So your odds for applying ten years is exp initially greater than that person applying for one year. However, this point system is good because anybody can draw at any time, just with a little luck. The next point system would be a preference point system. There's a lot of states that use this in some form or another, and a preference point what it does is it gives tags to the people with the most points. And you say that that makes

a lot of sense. Um, if I've been applying for twenty years, I should get a tag before the guy that's been applying for one year. So a preference point system only looks at the people with the most points and then allocates the tags to those people first. Over the years, that system has kind of created some problems where new people getting into it are completely unable to draw tags because of what is known as point creep.

So there's a lot of modified preference systems where a portion of the tags go to those with the most and then the rest might be allocated in a random draw that either favors no one or acts as a sort of bonus point system where somebody that applies for the first year could get lucky and draw, but a portion of the tags are given away purely on preference points. The next kind of draw would be a random draw, and this is just where everybody's names in the hat.

Doesn't matter if you've been applying for twenty years or this is your first time, you're all in. It's pure draws. You know, everybody gets one name, one chance, and then the draw is done. And that's just the random draw. There's a couple of states, Alaska, um Idaho, and New Mexico are the primary states that offer random draw hunts. And then there's another type of tag which really doesn't involve a draw, is what we call O t C tags.

A lot of people refer to him as O t C. Over the counter um doesn't necessarily mean that they're actually sold over the counter, and it also doesn't necessarily mean that they're in unlimited quality. But these are ones that can be purchased often first come, first serve. Sometimes you have to log in and buy it before the next guy, or purchase it before a certain date or even apply before a certain date, but if you apply, you get it.

Those tags are the ones that are a little bit more guaranteed obviously and um a little bit more dependable. But then those hunts also have more hunters and can be sometimes a more difficult hunt than other tags. So we've got all those different types of points and applications

for every different state. And what I'm gonna do a little bit later on is kind of go through some of the main Western states that people apply for, kind of give you the pros and cons the type of points that they use, in a few little tricks on maybe ways to get a tag sooner. One question I get asked a lot when it comes to applying for tags is well, if I apply as a party, I'll have a better chance at drawing a tag. And I think almost every state that you look at, party applications

are primarily done in the same way. How they work as everybody in that group goes in as one application, so it's not like there's five people altogether and if one of those persons get drawn, then everybody gets a tag. It's actually everybody goes in is one application, and then if that application is drawn they're all allocated tags so long as there's enough tags remaining, so it's an all or nothing thing. If people have multiple points, like different

levels of points, often those points are averaged. However, every state is different. So Colorado, if you apply as a party and you've got twenty points and your friend has two points, you go in with the person with the lowest points. So too, whereas Wyoming just averages um exactly, so you can have fractions of points um, but in a preference system even just a fraction of a point puts you higher than the person with less than a fraction of a point. And then there's other states that

just average them and round up or round down. So that's how party applications work. When you're looking at states to apply for. In units, I would say that there's two different kinds of units. There are general units and then there are limited entry units. So general seasons are going to be ones that are often less can troll

over the number of hunters. Many of those involved some form of over the counter hunt, especially for residents, where maybe nonresidents have to draw that tag or apply for a limited number, but you can often hunt a wider range of units. Uh, maybe multiple different seasons. It's more spread out, less controlled on the number of hunters. Now, limited tag draws or limited entry draws are ones that you have to draw in some way or severely limits

the number of hunters in there. These are often gonna be, you know, hunts where you see probably higher demand for those tags that they are a lot harder to draw. The game maybe more plentiful in those areas or less pressured, and you'll probably see fewer hunters in the field. Now, not all limited entry units are great, amazing hunts where you're gonna shoot the biggest belolk or the biggest meal there.

Some of them just restrict to the amount of people in there over general areas or restricted enough where there's a lot of tags, but it's just you have to get it through a draw system or some other thing. So, now let's talk a little bit about this idea of point creep and what that is is if you're looking at a different state that has preference points, you might see that it will show you how many years of

or like what level people were drawing tags this. So might say for two points to like sweet, in two years, I can get this tag. But then what happens is the next year, there's a bunch of people with one point that put in more than tags available, and so they all put in with two points. But then there's some people that maybe have been waiting with preference points that didn't just got points only, or who knows what.

Maybe we're applying for a different areas. This area becomes more popular or another area becomes less popular, and people shuffle around units, and then all of a sudden, that area takes three points to draw, and then the next year it takes four points to draw. In the next year it takes five points to draw, and mean while you're always behind, never getting a tag that you thought

you should be able to get. This has become a huge problem in a lot of these Western draws and kind of really goes to prove that the preference points system doesn't really work for people just getting into it. If you're just to get into Wyoming sheep tag and hoping to draw on a preference, it's going to be physically impossible for you to ever draw a preference tag. You look at it now, you go, oh, well, people are drawing with twelve to fifteen points or something like that.

But there's thousands of people in line, and you'll never get through that many people for the limited amount of tags available. So a lot of states have had to kind of modify their preference system and offer essentially offer some kind of random draw in these preference points states. Because you know, let's face it, tag draw application is a huge fundraiser for most state phishing game agencies, and if there's zero chance that somebody can actually ever end

up getting that tag, people are gonna stop applying. So they needed ways to make it where people can actually get tags, but also kind of make it fair in some way, um that new people getting into it might be able to randomly draw a tag and get lucky. So when you're looking at a state that might be a preference point state, there's going to be probably in almost all of them now kind of an option for a random draw, and that's probably what most people just

getting into it are hoping for. When I talk about all these things, I like to think of applying for a tag in a way of a strategy. So I've said this before, but I think that the best way to apply is kind of pick different states based on

the different strategy. So there's preference point states which although you might think, oh, there's a lot of point creep and I'll never get a tag, there are tags that you can get with that and their tags that you can kind of count on, and they're a little bit better than just over the counter tag or a general area tag that might not um you know, might just have a little bit better hunt with a fewer hunters, but it might take a few years. So something you

can plan on now. A bonus point state is something where you're gonna play the long game. You're hoping to get lucky early, but if you keep applying, you know you might get lucky over time and draw a really good tag and have a really good hunt. And in the random draw state is just everybody's on equal footing, So hey, I might get lucky just like everybody else. The people that have done this a hundred times, and then people that's their first year, we're all on the

same plane. So I'd say, if you have a limited budget and you want to start applying for different states, I would look at it this way. I look at it by trying to think of three states that have different systems, one where I might be able to realistically draw a preference point tag within two to five years, one where I'm on equal footing with everyone, a random draw state, and then a bonus point state where I

can kind of think, I'm gonna pick this state. I'm gonna apply over time, and hopefully I'll get lucky before I get a lot of points, but you never know, and I'm gonna keep applying and just keep after it with that one. Then on the back burner, I'm gonna have an over the counter tag or other states that are easy to draw, where I can pick up these overcounter the tags and plan the hunt that I know I'll be able to go on. And I think for most people we're really gonna have to focus on those

over the counter tags. Um, but it's good to have the strategy of thinking of hunts that you might want to do in the future, especially if you live near other states or might be places that you want to hunt in the future. You really got to make these plans and plan out what you're gonna do. I think if you were to look at like the point creep in some of these states and you go, Okay, well is it too late for me? If you're just getting

into it, and you say, is it too late? For me to even jump in these draws, is it even worth me my time, effort, money to apply? And I'm gonna say the sad reality is yes and no. So it is a little bit too late for some things but not for others. And what that means is some of these top units in places that use preference points

between the point creep unless you draw randomly. So the yes is like, you will not draw it on a preference how Ever, you could potentially draw it as a random draw for the now the states that are offering these a few of those tags as random draws. But also there's you have to think of using those preference points not for the top units, but units that you can realistically get. So that's kind of the way that

I see combating the creep. So you look for areas that had less points than necessary, then you build your points up and you go to those areas. You don't want to see it as wasting points. I know I've done that in the past, where I have four points and I see an area that takes two points to draw, and I'm like, oh, but I've got two extra years invested in this. I don't want to waste them on an area that has two points, I'm gonna go for this area that has six, and then you just never

catch up and you never want to go back. My philosophy when it comes to points is just turn and burn as much as you can. You're a lot better to have a tag in your pocket, be out in the field. You can actually kill an elk when you have an elk tag and you're out hunting, as opposed to having a bunch of points sitting in some imaginary wallets somewhere not getting used, and always chasing an area that you may never uh statistically be able to draw.

So what I want to do now is what I'm gonna go through a few states and I'm going to cover say five of them this week and maybe six next week, and just some of the application periods that are coming up. Um, So we'll start. I wanna just want to cover Wyoming, Utahs, do Montana, Nevada, and Arizona, and we can kind of cover those ones, and then um, we'll cover some of the other ones next week and talk a little bit more about some of the overcounter options.

But I figured if I go state by state now that you kind of have this broad overview of what the points are, then you can kind of I think if it's just better if I kind of explain each state and some of the options there, then you can kind of figure out what piques your interest, which one of these might be a good place for you to jump in, and then kind of build your application strategy and start thinking about planning some hunts for yourself. It's

definitely doable. It's not that difficult. I started figuring a lot of this stuff out when I was a teenager and there wasn't even resources for this kind of stuff. So I think that with this resource, with what's available now and the ease of being able to apply online and so much other stuff, this is something that anybody can do, and I highly suggest it if it's something that you're considering. I know a lot of people that

listen to this podcast. Um I always say I want to plan my first Western big game hunt when a lot of people live out here and just want to increase their opportunities, or maybe some guys just you know, say hey, I want to find a place where I can get a bigger elk than what I normally hunt. Were someplaces that I can apply and realistically have that happen. This is how you do it through these tag draws, through research, and through kind of creating a strategy on

your applications. So let's start with Wyoming. Unfortunately, if you're just getting into this elk, the elk draws already over for Wyoming, that happens kind of early in the year. Um, but it's not too late to get a point. So I would suggest why don't is actually really great state to choose for elker deer because it is a preference point state. And I might be thinking, well, preference points are bad all this point creep stuff, but that's not

necessarily the case. There's a lot of areas where it might take just one point or two points to get

a tagging kind of realistically plan on those areas. What I like to do is look for anything three points or less and then plan on just buying points until you have enough that you're ready to go and cash in and pick an area that the year prior a point lower got you a tag, because then you know for sure you're going to get the tag, or have a realistic expectation unless something crazy happens, like somebody shoots a world record elk and then that area blows up,

but outside of that is a little bit easier to plan. So it's too late to apply for elk there, but it's not too late to get a bonus point. I think the bonus points are available through September so um for all species, so you can get those now. And actually we only kind of change the way their application works where even if you apply, you still have to buy the bonus point later. Um. So you can apply, but you've got to get the preference point later um

if you'd like. And then the moose, sheep goat for wyomings do March one, and then June one is the deadline for deer and antelope, So that's if you're looking, hey, I want to go out for deer, I want to go out for antelope. That June first deadline is gonna be your time now on that it is preference point.

But there's some areas that if they have enough tags, they'll allocate a certain percentage that will go into a random draw, So it doesn't hurt to apply for that, and then if you don't get it, go on and buy your bonus point later. One side note to wyoming, you only get one choice, well one choice uses your points, so it's really going to be the choice that's looked at. There are a few tags in the deer and antelope if you start looking that you can actually pick up

on a second choice. So what that means is those areas are not fully filled on that first choice hunt. This is a really good way to get out hunting, but also start building points. You don't use your points if you don't draw your first choice. In Wyoming, UM I like to start looking for those units where it's like, hey, you can draw a second choice. Many of those, though, are available because it's mostly private lands, so you want

to just definitely research the area. UM I always pull out my onyx map or whatever, see how much private lands in there, how much public lands in their program that I use a lot. Go hunt works really well for this too. Just like researching areas, you can pull up an area. You can look at how many points it took to draw, how many What are the odds of drawing a second choice? Is that even possible? But that's something to look at, UM and one good thing

if you're thinking about Wyoming. I definitely like that aspect of it where you might be able to find a cool hunt that you can do um and still gain points for maybe one, one or two years down the road all jump over to Utah. So the deadline for that it's going to be March fourth. I've been applying in Utah for a very long time. I've got nineteen ELK points this year, so so that's quite a while. Um,

you'd be like, why haven't you drawn a tag? Well, I was chasing lower point tags and then I got into a little bit of point creep, and then I just started drawing other tags and kept saving my points and applying for an area that did not offer a preference point tag. So if it only has one tag, then it's all random draw, but it's kind of weighted random draw where all your points act as bonus points.

So for the last quite a few years, maybe ten years, I've been applying for an area that doesn't offer a tag to the most point applicants. So I could go and just choose if I wanted to say, Hey, I'm ready to hunt Utah this year, I'm gonna go get a tag. And there's a lot of units that I could just be guaranteed a tag in that are gonna be great hunts, Like for three hundred to three fifty type bowls with a bow. That's an awesome hunt and

something that would be super stoked on. But I've also had some really good hunts in my life, so I really thought, man, this might be one where I've got enough points, I might try to hold out for one of those more higher echelon type ELK tags where I could get a three fifty type bowl. And for me, this is state. If you're just getting started, it's not your state for that. Unfortunately, you're gonna have to either get lucky and draw off it. I mean, you could

draw the same tag I apply for. I I've got a friend that the tag that I apply for. He's applied three years and he drew the tag, and I've applied nineteen years and have never drawn it. So in that case, it kind of could be anyone's game. For dear, there's a general deer season in Utah and that's on a true preference point system, so there's it's not weighted. It's just the people with the most preference points get

allocated those tags. There's muzzleloader, archery and rifle general tags and some um ways that you can hunt it like kind of all three seasons, but those are that's a great way to kind of just plan on a hunt. So if you're already gonna say, hey, I want to hunt mule deer um, Utah sounds like a good one general tag. There's a lot more hunters on those general hunts.

But hey, you've got a tag in your pocket, and maybe being finding those areas you could get every other year, every year, maybe every third year, you're gonna be a lot more successful than waiting twenty years to draw a tag that may never come. And while you're doing that, if you're already buying the hunting license, you know you can get in there and apply for some of these limited entry tags that you might get lucky and draw. And that's what I would suggest doing a Feutah appeals

to you a lot of states. You'll notice like you have to buy a hunting license in order to apply. Utah is a state that you've got a little bit of a hack in here. They're they're hunting licenses are three sixty five days, so as long as you have an eligible hunting license when you apply, it's good for

that year. So you can essentially buy one hunting license every other year as long as you apply before your license expires, and that's something that most people do um, but there's a lot of people that don't know about it. This year, I normally set a Google Calendar update, but I missed my deadline for that, so I end up having to buy another license this year, two years in a row, but I try to get them every other years. That's just something to think about when it comes to

elk um. There's some over the counter elk hunts general season tags in Utah summer any bull hunts, and some are spike bull hunts in areas that are like more trophy based. Those spike hunts can be great hunts if you just want a good experience out elk hunting and maybe some success. And then the over the counter tags.

You know, there's other states that have over the counter tags that are you know, maybe more popular or whatever, but it's an option where if you don't have the tag draw you can you can pick up a tag. New this year, actually, Utah extended that their Archery Bull elk hunt over the counter tags by five days, so it now goes to September, which I think is gonna be huge for hitting the rust. So now it's August one,

September twenty two, So I think that's kind of cool. Um, that's that's gonna actually make those hunts quite a bit better, I think, because you can maybe hit some peak rut. I'll zoom down to Arizona. My overview of Arizona is it's really a great state for elk and deer, and if you think about it, I mean, it's probably one of the top states for l one of the top

states for deer. They've got those high and elk hunts. Now, those are really good if you have a lot of points, but I think with the point creep and all the other stuff, for most intents and purposes, those are gonna be out of reach for most hunters. There is the opportunity to maybe randomly draw one of those, but there's a lot of other hunts, like more opportunity type hunts in Arizona that take a lot less time to draw

and they can be great hunts. Um. There's a few L hunts that fall into this, both the antler list L hunts as well as some bowl elk hunts. While they aren't over the counter, there's some elk hunts that in the state of Arizona that are fairly easy to draw that may only take a few points, And there's also a lot of deer tags that might not take

any points. Cou'se deer tags, rifle tags in October. UM. Some of these off season hunts, like outside of the rut, they can be difficult, but that's how they add more tags, so there's more opportunity, but they put them in times of the year when it's the most difficult to find dear so it kind of keeps the numbers in check, not too many deer a shot. And then there's over

the counter archery deer tags later in the season. So I would say this is a really good state to apply if you're looking for, um a hunt that you could actually get into. But at the meantime, maybe try your hand at drawing one of these upper end tags. Because you get two choices in this draw and they consider both, so I like to go for broke on that first choice. And then there's like a list of you can kind of look up different tags where there's a lot of like sometimes tags left over in the

second or third and fourth choices. Um, there's some of those tags you can kind of pick up over the counter if they're left over, but last few years they haven't really been available. However, you can draw those easier, so you can kind of put those in your second choice and end up with a tag, but also maybe try for a better tag, like a dream tag at the same time. And that's kind of cool to be able to do that. So I definitely think that's a

good state to look into as well. Um, there's no state that I would mention that's not a good state to apply in, but I just want to cover everything kind of give you my like, these are just my thoughts on all these states when it comes to considering where you want to apply. Next one is gonna be Montana that opens up March first and then the application

in April one. Montana is honestly the most confusing draw Um, it's one I'm most familiar with, so it's not confusing for me, but I think when most people uh look at it, they're like, this makes no sense, and it's because it's a terrible draw system. Um, I don't know it needs to be changed, unfortunately, because what happens is so Montana has preference points for the general license and

then bonus points for limited entry units. However, The way that your draw works is you need to draw the general license before you are put into the application process for the limited entry units. So if you're just like, man, I want to apply for those giant ELK units and the breaks in Montana, that's cool. But what's gonna happen is you have to first draw general tag and then you're put in that limited entry chance in the breaks.

Now maybe you're like, oh, I don't want to hunt a general unit in Montana, so you have the option to refund your ELK tag. If you don't draw that limited entry tag, well, you're only gonna get eight percent of that, so it's gonna cost you like three something bucks. And um, I think if you do the combat tag, that's cost you to something. I can't remember the exact price.

Probably should have done the math. But see, it didn't really matter before, where everybody kind of just drew the general tagscent draw and then everyone was put in for the other draw and then you got your refund back

and it wasn't a big deal. Now the general tags are becoming more popular, so now there's a lot more competition for those tags, and your preference points to draw that general tag before you get put into that bonus point draw for the limited entry in So, if you know, Monte, I'm gonna just say it like this, this sounds very confusing, and it is. So the best thing for Montana is apply for Montana if you just want to hunt the general units and then you want to apply for a

limited entry unit while you're there. That's the best way to think of it, because you know, doing it the other way around kind of doesn't necessarily make sense that it's going to take you a very long time to draw one of those limited entry tags because you gotta get lucky twice and you're gonna burn your preference point for that general tag by attempting to draw a permit tag.

So I'm hoping that in the next few years Montana wise is up and they just change this and make it more like every other state where it's like, hey, if you're putting in for a limited entry tag and you draw it, you get a tag. That's makes sense.

There's like, you know, I mean, thousands of people putting in for some units that have one tag available, and then it's just this really complicated system where the refunding tags and giving them back to other people and it's just it's like a really horrible system um as more people apply, so that's how that works. But Montana is a great state and has probably one of the better general elk hunts. You know, i'd put it up there in the top states of general elk hunts or general

elk units. You know, it's got quite a few units under that general elk tag. It's fair popular hunt. I would say between Montana, Idaho, Colorado, and Wyoming, those are gonna be your top elk states. New Mexico is a great state hunt, but most of those tags are on to draw. So you know, you look at those other four states and there's areas where you can get into every other year, every year and have a good hunt.

And so that's something like a lot of people are very interested in, and I think there's something worth noting. I mean, Montana's place that I grew up hunting, so I like hunting there. But there's also great hunts other places as well. The nice thing about you know, Montana, if you're doing that in the limited entry units only

your first choice is counted for your bonus points. So you know, if you don't draw your first choice, then you don't lose those bonus points, you continue to gain those bonus points over the years even if you drew that general preference. So there's two point systems in there for one tag um, which makes it a little complicated, but it is easy enough to manage, and then it's just a It's also a really good state if you want to try your look for moose, sheep goat because

the entry fees minimal. You don't have to buy a license ahead of time, so it's probably the cheapest state to apply for moose, sheep or goat UM. So I think it's a pretty good state for that, and that's the way I look at Montana. And the last state we're gonna cover today would be Nevada. Nevada is a bonus point state, so everyone has a chance, but the longer you apply here, the better your chances. So everything is squared, your point numbers squared, so the longer you apply,

the better chance is going to be UM. You have to buy a hunting license in order to gain a point, so you could apply it in Nevada fairly cheap, but you won't gain a point. And I wouldn't suggest that because the money for the application fees the money that you're spending on the license is kind of gonna increase your odds down the road of obtaining a tag. You could go in every year with just one chance, and

people do that, and people have drawn it. But I'd say your your statistical probability of drawing that is so minimal that it just becomes kind of a raffle at that point, and you might as well just buy like a Um, every state's kind of got like tag raffles as well. Um, you're probably better off just putting your money in that than opposed to applying every year without the bonus points, because over the course of time, you're just gonna have a better and better chance of securing

a tag. The nice thing about Nevada is if you do draw a tag, pretty much every tag is top end hunting, so you're gonna have a really good honey experience because the tags are so limited. I would say it's probably one of the only Western states where you know you have a chance of drawing it your first year, as opposed to the states that have a lot of

preference points systems in place. This bonus point system, at least every time you apply you do have some sort of chance or a better chance than places that are preference. Even though they do have some random tags, there's more tags given out. You have the option of obtaining more tags this way, So I think it's a great state for people to apply in. One of the kind of tricks to this getting a tag in Nevada would be

use weapon types to have better draws. You know, archery seasons seem to have better draws, or maybe some muzzleloader seasons, or some offseason rifle hunts, some like October rifles as opposed to rent rifles into BATA. You get five choices, and all five choices are looked at before the next applicant. So what this great thing to do is mix and

match your choices. Put your first couple of choices is just like awesome, incredible, really hard to draw tags, and then your last three choices as ones that are maybe easier to draw by switching up your weapon choice or something. So it's like, hey, you've got a chance of something really really good, but also you've got a mixture of things that might help you get a tag sooner. And I think that that is a really good strategy in that state, because every stage draw system is a little different.

We really just have to talk about every single state out west and apply for and just give you an idea of how it works, and then kind of look into those states and start planning your hunts that way. I've said it before a thousand times, but your hunt's gonna start now in planning. So what you gotta have to do is you're gonna have to find a unit to hunt, and that's gonna start by finding a place

or a state to apply. You can go online, you can look up a lot of these different states, their systems, and the tags that are available. There's a lot of different services out there as well, but I think that having some sort of knowledge base on your own of how everything works and then choosing for yourself where you want to maybe start looking into, that's a great way

to do it now. Of course, the over the counter tags are going to be a really good option for most people coming from out of state or just looking to get in on a hunt this year with a lot less future planning, and we're definitely gonna start covering those. So we're gonna do a deeper dive into over the counter tag options next week, and then I'm also going to cover the draws in Idaho, Oregon, Washington, New Mexico, Colorado, and California. Before we cast off, I just want to

thank everybody else. Actually cruising through some of the Apple podcasts customer reviews, I guess and uh, it's awesome to see so many great comments, uh and so many great ratings. Definitely really appreciate that. I'll just actually take a few seconds and I haven't done this before, but just read a few of these because I just I'm just gonna randomly pick a few here. So A X thirty says, not just for the experienced hunter, I really appreciate all

the infra you provide for the emerging hunter. Five stars gilb Tom says very informational. One of the best podcasts out there regarding hunting, tips, strategies, gears, etcetera, etcetera. I listened to every episode. Another five stars, this one's from Timmy to fifty three says the Godfather Remy is super knowledgeable at hunting. He can be an animal's worst nightmare when he's hunting them. I've learned and enjoyed listening a lot. My sister in law and I got a double spike

elk this year. Thanks to some of his tips and tactics. Uh plucking them both out of a herd of a hundred plus. Remy is like the master godfather hunter for my buddy and I want to know how to hunt animals successfully, listen, learn practice, and get her done. Remy is the man. Hey, I didn't say it, Timmy, did I think so? Man? That's I appreciate that comment. Um, there's just so many great comments out here. I really appreciate you guys listening. Here's another one from Nick Planner.

One says, awesome, great podcast for any big game Western hunter. So much info you got to listen to them multiple times to retain all the info. I just thank you guys so much. I love cruising through these messages reading them. It gives me stoked. It gives me fired up to keep the podcasts cruising and trucking and and keep pumping out info. So if you guys get a chance, if you think about it, if something you want to do.

I never try to hard sell anyone on anything, but go over there, leave a comment, give me some ratings five stars if you'd like. I prefer that, But sweet, whatever you guys think, and um, yeah, I just thank you guys for tuning in and all the support, So until next week, don't get creeped out. By the point creep. There's still a lot of tags available and I'm gonna teach you how to get them and get on more hunts this fall. So until next week, have a good one, guys,