Ep. 77: Bo Nickal - The Wrestler, The Fighter, The Hunter

his tenure at Penn State University. But recently he's been transitioning from what would be considered a prestigious wrestling career and he's transitioning into that fast paced world of MMA. Nichol's journey continues as he seeks to make his mark in the octagon. He's drawn upon his as an athleticism, strategic mindset, and competitive spirit in this new arena beyond the confinance of the wrestling and MMA. He's also passionate.

It's a new passion for the outdoors and he's kind of propelled in the world of hunting, which we've seen other UFC stars do and and kind of it seems like there's a pretty good parallel between those where he's using, you know, applying his dedication, focus and skill to pursue well game. So welcome to the show, bo.

as like a first grader. So I was I was a guy like I coach all my other kids sports, whether it's football, basketball, baseball, and it was the first sport I ever just kind of sat up and watched, like and then you realize what the coach is like, all right, I can yell get on your toes, like when you're getting ready to be you know, like I was that guy, like that's my level of wrestling I've become.

But I've always been a student of the game. And so it's actually, you know, three or four years ago, you know, watching YouTube, like oh there's a guy named Bo Nickel and and you know these guys at Penn State that are dominant and learned about Sanderson cause always wanted to just know more, you know. It's like, yeah, and then we're getting taught all these moves and practice for my kids are and then you watch you guys wrestling. You guys do use moves, but it's it's almost like

it turns into a different sport. Like you can't get away with had an arm anymore. You can't get away. And so that's I'm I'm exposing myself to my understanding of wrestling. But uh, I was a basketball player.

I felt like the most passionate about. But uh yeah, that's cool that you're, uh, your son's into it. It's a great or just to even it doesn't mean matter if you wrestle for your whole life or wrestling college or anything like that. Just experiencing it, I think is a really you know, good thing.

to kind of own that. And I like that about wrestling, you know, And I think in today's world, we don't have enough grit and a lot of what we do, and so it's like if nothing else, I like that word grit. It's like teaching you to grind it out whether you win or lose, like you better leave it all out there.

your practice partners or anything like that. But you know, I think that for me, that definitely instilled a lot of uh, you know, character and different things into you know, how I try to carry myself. And but also, you know, I was really appreciative that I did team sports as well, because that social component is it's you know, you see some guys that maybe just wrestled their whole life and they don't quite get that, they don't understand what it's

like to to know, work with another person. And you know, so I think both are important. But yeah, I mean and they both they both teach you know, different lessons that are that are positive.

wants to continue wrestling or playing basketball. But like you said, regardless, it was great life lessons for the last six or seven years, and I think it's it's good and it's weird. And I'm a basketball guy. Like you watch basketball players and like I cringe when you see like guys hoop and holler and acting like an idiot. It's like, at

least most wrestlers. There are a few bad apple, but like most wrestlers carry themselves different which I like that like respect side and more respect for the sports and their opponents than maybe some of the sports that I played carry themselves with you know nowadays. So I do like that, like it it seems like most wrestlers carry a different level of respect than some other athletes.

of respect for your opponents. And in addition to the fact that that's just kind of part of the culture is to you know, respect each other, appreciate each other, like, you know, a good example, I was at the Arnold Classic for I was doing appearance at that Fit and sexpo and it was in Columbus, Ohio, and a guy walks up to me. He's like bo and I turn and look and it's this kid, Colin Moore who I wrestled him the NCA season, the NSA finals, and like,

we wrestled a few times my senior year. And some might have considered us kind of like rivals and stuff like that, compete against each other, but comes right out to me, Hey man, how you doing, like just you know, really friendly and stuff, and so that just the culture. You know, you just kind of have that bond with people, even if you compete against them, you just have that connection. So it's pretty it's pretty cool for sure.

and they literally fight each other. It's the craziest thing. So I was like, I think I could get down for that.

She takes care of them and she does a lot so that I can get good rest and recovery and be at my best for training, So we're figuring it out. Definitely, you know, a big adjustment going from just us to adding a little one, but it's all good things and all fun.

bring you on talk about that crossover. Like a lot of you know, a lot of my Yeah we can be in the greatest shape shoot our bow grape, but a lot of you know, good elk hunters, mealdeer hunters. That it comes down to the mental and like staying in the game, which has a great connection with wrestling. But yeah, we're gonna we're gonna hit a few Q

and A from our listeners. Once again, if you have questions for me or my guests, feel free to email them to us at CTD at Phelps game Calls dot com or hit us up on social media and we'll do our best to get him in here. So our first question comes from Nate dan Zy, how has the wrestling discipline transferred over into the hunting world and how have you been able to pull and use pieces as you if you become more into hunting.

it's it's literally a non issue. And so I think that's just that's just very base like basic stuff, standard stuff. I think in addition to that, if you look at however you hunt, whether it's with a bow or with a with a rifle, and you know, there's a certain technical aspect to shooting and you know, making a good shot, I feel like that comes pretty natural to me because

I'm always used to learning technique. So I watch a ton of film and there's a lot of guys that I am listening to and trying to figure out, you know, what little tips and tricks they use just for making good shots and stuff. So I think that that that just having trained my whole life and had to learn technique, it helps me pick things up a little quicker. And then when I when you get into you know, those are just like I said, the basic things that you

know kind of seem pretty standard. But I feel like when you get into actual hunting scenarios, it's always going to be different and you can never And wrestling is also like that, right, Like you get into a match, it's never going to go the way that you drill, right, So you know, you might have drilled a double like takedown ten thousand times, but you know you're in a match in a high pressure situation and there might have to be little micro adjustments within that. And so I

think that that that applies as well. So you know, anytime that I go into compete, whether that's wrestling or fighting, or anytime I go out on too to hunt too, it's just my mindset is very i would say focused, strategic. I feel confident and I feel like I'm gonna do whatever I need to do to make it happen. So, you know, I think that that comes from that wrestling foundation and that base of like I never really feel

I never really get too up or two down. It No, it's just very very even keel, and you know, whatever the scenario is, I feel like I can kind of focus on what I need to do rather than letting the moment get bigger than me. Right, Like you see, you see a massive bowl coming at you, screaming in your face like it it's really easy to like lose your cool. Yeah, and then the same thing as you know, wrestling in NCA finals or a state championship map. You know,

it's it's it's easy. But since I have that experience and I know how I'm gonna respond, how my body's going to feel, how' going to react, I feel like it really applies in those scenarios. So you know, then it goes back to all right, put myself in the best position I can to now in hunting, make a good shot and hopefully, you know, be able to kill

that animal quickly and as ethically as I can. So I just, folks, I'm able to be in these high pressure scenarios and just focus on the technique, focus on the discipline, and be calm. And then I think that that's what has helped me. I've had a decent amount of success fairly quickly, and all those things you know, apply and translate.

Like you you go through, it's methodical, and but you need to adapt right you were you know, whether you're you're planning for a guy that you know is a single leg guy or an ankle picker versus he comes out and you know he's going for a double or however you'd prepared, and it's different than you adapt right and we it's the same. And then one thing that

like I struggled with early. I've hunted my entire life, but when I picked up in the bow and archery hunting, I couldn't keep my cool where it's like you maybe you know doing it later like well, you're like I've been in a million situations where like the stakes are extremely high, and you know you've been able to So it's like you have mechanisms built in or you can you can you rely on that experience where your heart rate's been elevated or you've been maybe a little bit frazzled,

and you know, but you're like, all right, you know you got mechanisms that calm yourself down and make a good shot, you know, keep your keep your stuff together.

So yeah, I see where you know, wrestling in that discipline can definitely transfer, and we're going to get into it a lot more here in a little bit like the mental side of like, you know, that's that's the toughest thing I think for a lot of people is like day two or three of a hunt, things aren't going good, like staying with it or talking yourself into it. And you know, you've had a lot of great mentors.

This is also one of Neate's questions. You've had a lot of great mentors from your parents to your probably your high school coaches. But you know, Kale gets a lot of Cale Sanderson, your coach at Penn State, gets a lot of you know, credit and whatever. But he was curious, like, what was the one thing you learned from Kale that like you use in your day to day life, Like, was there a message, like an underlying message that really kind of stuck.

sport to you know, family and relationships to business. It's it's it's always, you know, has the I feel like everything I do, I try to do it with gratitude and and appreciation, and uh, you know, you can always kind of just I guess, want more in your mind, or feel like maybe you didn't get a fair shake

or whatever it is. But what I found has given me the best results and allowed me to be the happiest and most content is just to find things that I appreciate, you know, whether they're they're a big thing like my wife or my son, or a small thing. Whenever I think of gratitude, I always think, so we used to have a box in our wrestling room and we'd have a little note cards and we'd write something down that we were grateful for and put in the box.

And we did this exercise one time where we kind of read something we were grateful for and most people put big things, you know, put their family or wrestling at Penn State, or your health, things like that. And my buddy Zan reat Theford, who was you know, pretty pretty amazing wrestler in his own right, multiple time national champion, world champion, he wrote down that he was grateful that he had dry socks and if you ever had wet sox,

you know, like that's not fun. But I just thought that was so cool and it was so simple, but at the same time it was really profound. And so I think that gratitude is something that I've learned, you know, from coach Kale that he really preached that and it's allowed me just to, I think, get the most out of myself in every area of my life.

was also something a little new. Yeah, you were in you know, a wrestling, which is a you know, a style, right, you would call it a style, but you had to be a complete fighter, so you were exposed to you know, striking or you know, jiu jitsu all these other things. So maybe we can make other connections that aren't just physical the whole way through.

and pack something out like that. I look at that as like, oh, this is like preparing me for a fight. So it's kind of funny. I look at it almost in an opposite way too, like they both help each other, and I think mentally, what's really interesting. So I started hunting at a pretty similar time to when I started training MMA, and so obviously I had that wrestling base

and I had twenty plus years of wrestling knowledge. But like you said, there's so many other disciplines and styles that I had to learn, right, Like I have to learn jiu jitsu, I've learned boxing, I've learned muy thai. I have to learn how to blend these all together. And that's really how hunting is, right. You know, there's a lot of different ways to hunt. There's different styles,

there's different reins, you know, there's different animals. So I think for me, it's about when I look at my MMA training and hunting training, I want to learn really good, solid fundamentals and in everything that I'm doing. And I feel like when you master the fundamentals and the basics, then you can really be free to do whatever you want.

You know, people see I think the end result. A lot of times they see, oh, you get your arm raised, you have that success, or oh you you killed a massive bull, or you killed a big deer or something

like that, Like they just see that. They don't see all the hours and hours that you spent training and mastering those fundamentals, or you know, mastering your shot technique, or spending time in the mountains, studying scouting and learning you know, how animals react to certain situations, how to put yourself in the best position, those type of things. So I feel like they're they're one and the same

really for MMA and for hunting. You know, if you can master fundundamentals and then you know, basically whatever scenario're in, you're going to be able to make the best decision possible and put yourself into a position.

I've I've been through enough situations. I'm never going to quit. So I hunt till the last minute of the last day every time, you know, and so it's like, yeah, you've got this foundation, very fundamental, and then you build from there and then you yeah, like I always figure there there's some great elk hunters that don't run a call, you know, they figured out different ways. They're super there, maybe even sneakier than I am, you know, and so

there's there's lots of ways. But you build that foundation, and like you say, there's nothing stopping you from figuring out who you are, how you're going to do it, which which translates over really well, you know from that next question is from Jason Verbeck, a guy got to meal to your hunt with probably ten years ago in

eastern Washington. You just had a question. Is a feeling similar between like when you let a perfect arrow go versus like when you're getting ready to knock after you knock somebody out or you know, submit somebody, Like is there any carry over to that similar feeling or is it different?

But you're also just like a lot of times in this very quiet, serene, majestic scenario, you know, beautiful country a lot of times, and then you know, in a fight, it's so there's so many people packed in there and it's such a more of a chaotic environment that But but as far as like the actual action of it happening,

it's super similar. You almost turn everything off. And like I noticed when I knock a guy out when if you if you punch, like sometimes you'll punch somebody and you'll feel the connection on your hand, but a lot of times, if you land a really good shot, you don't feel.

not a bad thing. But I think that I always go back to, like why I'm doing what I'm doing, And for me, winning isn't why I do what I do. I didn't wrestle just so I could win, you know. I if I my main priority in life was just winning, then I would do something really easy that I would win every time and I would never lose, you know. And so I enjoy wrestling and I enjoy a fighting because I like to challenge myself. I like the strategy.

I like to you know, I like the blend of physical physicality and mental preparation and you know, having to you know, make decisions in uh scenario, high pressure scenario quickly. So that's that's what I I like. That's why I like wrestling, And so I think it's important for people to ask themselves why why am I doing what I'm doing? And I also think it's okay to change directions, like if you if you're doing something and maybe you realize

why you're doing it is it's not very fulfilling. It's not the right reasons, Like you should find something that you really love and enjoy the process and and you know, I know that's not easy, but that's kind of I think what you have to do to really get good results. I mean, you can get good results for a certain amount of time doing something that you you don't love, but it's not fulfilling. And I don't think that's really gonna last.

with him and we played eighteen holes. And he's just a super down to earth cool guy for being, you know, President of the United States and one of the most famous people on the face of the planet. He was super down to earth. We talked about obviously, golf, we talked about fighting, we talked about football, and it was just kind of like just hanging out like a couple of bros. I really and that's huge. How I judge people is I'm not ever going to judge people based

on when anybody else says about him. I'm going to judge them based on my own interactions with them, and you know, people can say whatever they want, but I've had a good amount of experience and hung out with the guy for hours and hours, and he's super cool, super like I said, down to earth and just one of the nicest guys I've ever met.

Everybody likes to win, like that's not unusual. And something that actually my coach, that coach Kele said the other day that I really liked was he said, it's okay to be nervous. It's just not okay to be nervous about being nervous. You know, nerves are normal and everybody gets nervous before a match. So you know, just don't feel weird about that. Don't feel like, you know, oh my gosh, like what am I'm nervous? I'm not gonna what am I gonna do?

my head. And so you never really get caught up and lost in what to do, and you're not worried about what the score is or how much time left. You're just circle post the head, pull them around, get to the leg like shot. And so I think those two things are really important. So yeah, try to try to you know, it's okay to be nervous, but just understand that that's normal. And also just build a system so you don't have to try to figure out what

you're going to do in the match. Already know and you already have a plan.

move that I really liked, it was always cradles. So you know, I had long arms and I was pretty quick, so I was able to get to a lot of cradles. And for me, the ultimate best part about wrestling was pinning somebody. You know, I think that that was just my style and what I gravitated most towards from a young age. So you know, cradles were a way that like that was always kind of one of my best best areas, best moves in I was able to pin guys in them.

You're early, and then you go through this and then it's like as things go on, you're slowly like losing the ability to throw these moves because other wrestlers and we've even watched it a little bit where the dominant kids can still create ale and stuff, but you're almost to the point like if you're not super dominant, which you know, maybe you know, it's like some of these kids have to just go back to the fundamentals, like you know, single leg, double legs, you know, and run

run the normal program. And it's kind of funny you teach all these moves early, but I think you know, just as an outsider, as a coach, just coaches other things like and then watching you guys wrestle at a very high level, like it all come come full circle back to fundamentals.

They know how to defend them. And that that's when, like I said, you know, you're you always have to continue to master fundamentals and and get better and improve on them. You know, I was able to pull off a lot of what people would call like junior high moves or crazy moves in college, and but that was because my fundamentals allowed me to execute in those positions, you know, not necessarily you know, just going for a

crazy moves out of nowhere. It would be something that my opponents had to put themselves out of position because I was in position. So then now these these quote unquote crazy moves are more available to me. And I think that that's what people don't realize. And also I think it helped that I just wasn't scared, you know, I'm not afraid. It doesn't matter if it's first match of the year or the NCAA Finals, like I'm going to wrestle the same, So you know that that's something

that I think added to that. But uh yeah, it definitely goes in cycles. And the fundamentals are something that can never be you can never feel like, you know, you don't need to work on them. It's always gonna it's always gonna help you.

maybe some rice here and there I'll do. I have a nice farm near me so that I get raw dairy and raw cheese, so get some raw milk in there and then you know, but I keep it very simple. I don't do a lot of I don't really do any processed foods. I make sure that I stay hydrated

and get good electrolytes and stuff. And yeah, so and then hunting it's a little different because with when I'm training and getting ready for flight, I have like two basically, I usually do two two ish hour training sessions a day and then the other time I'm able to like focus on my nutrition. But when I'm hunting, it's like you might be out for ten hours, like you might just be in the morning getting it. So, you know,

I kind of adjust that. Usually I'm eating a little bit less and I'll lose a little bit of weight and stuff. But I try to, of course, like bring snacks and you know, but I keep it pretty simple still, you know, fruits and again like you know, maybe uh, maybe bring some jerky stuff like that. So but I don't really do a lot of a lot of processed stuff. And if I'm eating carbs, it's potatoes or fruit. So yeah, I'm just I'm very simple with that.

a day. And uh then obviously when I work out, it kind of flushes my system and I'm able to sweat out a ton and so then I just basically slowly bring it in so it'll be like two gallons one point seventy five one point five, and I'll just bring it in to a lower lower amount until till weigh and day and that that gets me down. And I have a nutrition coach and he does my strength conditioning as well. So he helps me with everything and he calculates it all out so I don't have to

guess and try to figure it out for myself. But uh yeah, I mean for me, that's really new. I never cut a lot of weight as a kid or high school or even college. Like when I was in college my senior year, I wrestled one ninety seven and pretty much every practice I would end underweight. I weighed about two hundred pounds. I would end practice that, you know one. And so I feel like where people focus on cutting weight, it's more important to just focus on

skills and also just having fun like that. That could easily be the worst part about wrestling, you know, cutting weight and stuff. Yeah, you're you might be at a competitive disadvantage younger if you're not cutting weight, but in the long term, you're going to end up better off because you're gonna have to learn, you know, more skills and also it's going to be more fun for you, so you're going to enjoy it.

they have to continue to cut. But it. Yeah, sometimes I wonder like how healthy that is. But if you're doing it, just buy water loads and not just like crazy.

You know, I'm sure there's some calorie deficit, but I just I would hate for people, you know, especially young kids careful how I say this, like if you're not elite or doing it for like a real reason, you know, like UFC or collegiate you know, championships, Like yeah, maybe you guys should just wrestle at your own weight and played a little safer.

be healthy, be happy, enjoy of the sport. And like I said, you know, for me, I understand if people in college want to cut weight. You know, it's competitive. There's only ten spots on the team. You know, you want to make the team. You want to be you know, college All American national champ. So you're also a little older and more mature. You can handle a little better. So at that point it's like, you know, you got

to do what you do. And now for me, I'm I'm like a full grown adult, and I also know, like I'm disciplined and I have a I know how to do it in the best way possible, and I'm not going to straight from the plan, So I'm able to I like I said, you know, it's not fun and it's not enjoyable, but I'm able to do it in a way where it's not really hurting me.

knock me out or pin there? With my experience, I want to know your honest answer, it'd be saxon, you know.

put any amount of money on it. And he lasted about four seconds, so it was pretty pretty.

the car and we're not asking you. So so I'm gonna jump into you know what kind of inspired you like what you know, You're you're cranking along, you know, wrestling one of the best wrestlers in the world. You know, and then your MMA career starts to take off. Like what inspired you to Like where did this hunting idea come from? Like did you see something that was it? Joe Rogan talking about it, Like what made you want to go do this?

wouldn't be like a turkey from the store. It would be like my my granddad or my dad would go shoot a turkey. And you know, so that was something that was really regular for me. And I just never did it young because I was always wrestling and the seasons overlapped and I didn't have a lot of time. But uh so it was always something that I kind

of was around. And then when I graduated from college, like you know, you're used to being a student athlete, and so you have hours and hours of classes along with practice. And now I'm graduating and I'm just practicing. So I'm like, I got a lot of free time, Like what am I going to be interested in? What

do I want to do? And so I saw, you know, again, I have a lot of family members that hunt and stuff, and I was like, huh, maybe maybe I could do like a like bow hunting, maybe I could do some archery.

And so I thought about it for a while and then, uh, you know, just the more I researched it and the more I looked into it, I think that the fact that just just so many things aligned as far as you know, one wanting to eat healthy and and have be able to provide meat for myself and for my family, I thought that was, you know, such a cool thing, and I wanted to make sure, like, you know, you can get get meat at the store, but it's it's not the same quality as as a as a real,

you know, wild animal. And so that was a big factor in a big influence. And then just the way that everything that we've talked about kind of how hunting aligns with what I do in my in my career and uh, the the passion and the pursued and you know, setting goals and the discipline that it takes to be successful and and all those things just really they just

like kind of spoke to me. And so I'm fortunate that now I live an area in central Pennsylvania where there's there's pretty good opportunity to be able to travel you know, short short while and have you know land that we can hunt on and stuff. And also, uh, you know, I still have a family back home in Colorado and in Wyoming, and so I'm able to go back there and visit as well. So I have you know, pretty good access to to place second hunt.

where that that kind from? And you know, you know how many animals die for you to be able to eat that, like you know, and so I'm like, this is just and and so there was a little bit of negative response, but I feel like the MMA community, the wrestling community, the hunting community are all pretty similar mindset, so you know, if anything, it was, it was more positive and more people that kind of said wow, like I didn't know you hunt, Like I'm even bigger fan now,

or no, I didn't know you hunt. That's so cool. I'm a fan now. So I would say, you know, yeah, there was a little negativity, but even I would say way more, way more positive.

But you you know, Chris Pratt, you know, we were all stoked, you know, as a group of hunters, like yeah, the guy and then he retracts a little bit right and takes pictures down, and it's like, ah, you know, we we'd love to have, but I understand like he makes a living and if he doesn't want and jeopardize that, and so it's easy for me to say, like, you know, fight and I was just curious if you'd had any of that I do, you know, like Mendes is big in the honey, you know, it's like more of these

you know, m m A wrestling, you know, crossover celebrities, and I think it's it's good. It helps kind of show that there's a reason and and the big movement for like natural food and meat and like knowing where your food comes from is a is another you know, good point that we can all make as we you know, it seems like, you know, every day we're losing more and more of that, right or the ability you know, you saying you're from Colorado, Like the fight that we're

we're taking on in Colorado right now is nuts. Like you know, they're they're labeling at trophy hunting and they use all these words basically you know that they can they can describe it in a way where trophy hunting

it's like, that's not what it is. You're twisting words or it's unfortunate, and you know, it's like every day we kind of battle to continue on with the lifestyle that that my family we've a meat off of, you know, natural go get it yourself meet for as long as anybody can remember, Like, who has the right to tell us that we can't do that anymore, you know, through through ballot measures or whatever it may be.

you know, are kind of tricked. They use marketing to trick them into thinking, you know, that that's not what

it is and stuff. But I feel like just having rationable, irrational, reasonable conversations, Like anybody that I've talked to in person that I've had a conversation with that it's been like why do you do that isn't that Like, well, listen, I can explain to you, like, you know, how much more ethical it is too for for myself to eat this, and and how much less waste there is, and you know what's like these animals, Okay, their options are you know,

they either provide food and meat for my family, or they're going to die of starvation or or get eaten by a mountain lion. Like these are kind of the options. And at the same time, like we're put putting money back into conservation and making sure that these they're they're the healthiest populations that they can be and stuff, and you know, we're we're part of this this ecosystem and this food chain. Like that's the way that the world's

worked since the beginning. And you know, anytime you can have a conversation with people like that, I feel like most people, the vast, vast majority, kind of understand it a little bit better. You know. I think that when you maybe try to, you know, fight it, fight it within a more negative way, when you know they're coming at you negatively so you're fundingly it doesn't really help. When you can just explain it, then I feel like that's where I've seen the most help.

the guy fishes and eats fish. I'm like, it's the same. I look at the cougar is the same as the fish, Like, it's not an egotistical thing. It's like to balance nature. There, it's a mature tom, another tom's going to take its place. These toms are going to kill each other if they're in the same area as trying to like and it's great table fair. Like my job is to educate like people like, oh, you just killed the cat, took its hide, and let like no, I've got fifty five pounds of

cougar meat in my freezer now, and it's amazing. Yeah, some people are like I even my my family's killed a lot of deer and elk it's not a lot of cougar. And they're like, you're gonna eat that. I'm like, yeah, everybody says it's may and it is. It's just it's like a lean pork and it's like these things are well and so you, like you said, you go out it positive. I could have told the guy like, you know, go fly a kite. You're you're killing innocent fish that

aren't attacking your family, but that didn't do me any good. Like, hey know, we processed it, we packed the whole thing out. We were going to eat it as a family, and everybody was like you know you And then the guy responded like, oh that that makes more sense, and like, well, at least I hope it's from an area that can sustain your heart. I'm like, yeah, trust me that I have a shortage of big cats.

to be educated on that. And also people don't understand that the way that conservation works and hunting and how they align it's like for the benefit of every of Yeah, like I don't. It's it's wild to me that people think, like you're gonna hunt these animals so they go extinct. It's like, first off, there's a ton of them, yeah, everywhere, and they're they're they're actually you know, they need to

be hunted and they need to be managed. Yeah. And secondly, you know, if if their population, if there's too much, that's that's a huge negative consequence in itself, right, like you know, you look and deer like the chronic wasting disease and stuff like that, that's that's terrible, Like you don't want that type of stuff to happen, or just you know, getting hit by cars like Pennsylvania is one of the worst things for that just because of the

of the way it goes. But yeah, I mean the education piece I think can't be uh can't be overstated, Like.

to be managed as well to increase that. And so it's like, if you truly care about the deer in the elk and the like, the best way to like have the most of these if you you know, if you're a naysayer these free cute, little cuddly critters on the ground them is to let us feel, you know, kill a few cats and not not shun that. And so I've always said it like us as hunters care the most about having the most game on the land

anyways and treating them. So it's like, yeah, but but I I agree back to your point, like going it some of these naysayers with a positive mentality instead of being negative and kind of going at their throat at times, is it pencils out better for us and is a better look overall for sure?

on the process, not focus on the results. And so I feel like doing that has given me basically the best chance of success because I don't get discouraged, I don't get down, and you know what, I like to have every single tag that I ever owned to fill it and have one hundred percent success, And yeah, of course I got and you know that's that's definitely the goal. But for me, it's more about improving getting better as

a hunter. And I know the more time I put in and the more opportunities that I give myself and the more times I put myself in a good position, the more success that I'll have and the more goals that I'll reach. And it's not a it's not a sprint, right, Like it's a marathon. Like I'm gonna be able to hunt for a long long time. And it's kind of similar to my MMA career, where you know, I'm not

in a rush. Yeah, my goals are to be UFC champion and the pou pound number one fighter in the world, but I know that it takes a lot of work and time and effort to get to that point and and and the way that I'll get there the fastest is just by every single day improving, getting a little bit better, putting time into my craft. And so I think that with hunting, you know, I don't any time I go to hunt, Yeah, like I would like to kill the biggest animal possible, and I want to you know,

be able to make a good shot and stuff. But that's just by the way I'm going to do that is by putting one foot in front of the other and being disciplined and again having good fundamentals and keeping a cool head and just you know, worrying about the next step, not wearing out. You know what that amount's going to look like up on my wall.

nine or ten years, you know. And we me and Derk, my marketing manager, a lot of these things were like take a step back, like when you want to when you do draw this tag, when you want to have a few cows under your belt and maybe a few rag horns under your belt, and like don't don't avoid the opportunity and look at this like prize at the end, Like for me, I want to I want to fill my freezer, and there's so much more opportunity out there, and it's a it's a little I'm kind of kind

of pulling at this, but like, don't don't feel like you need to kill the biggest six point bowl on the mountain or the big like go out there and learn your craft, like own your craft, because if you're waiting ten years to draw a tag number one, you're not going to be very good when you finally do have the premium tag in your pocket or the chance, you're gonna probably blow it because you didn't put in the work for the last ten years when you should

have been out there chasing cows or spikes or raghorns or whatever you had the opportunity to. And that's I think social media doesn't do any new hunters favors because they see the likes of and I've been doing this my entire life, right, Like it's unfair for you to look and say you know this guy or not saying me even all these other guys that hunt, and that's

all we do, like killing it. It's like it taking It's taken a lot of time to get to the point where I'm comfortable and passing a lot of smaller bulls because trust me, if I showed you the first ten years of I was successful early on, but a bunch of little teeny raghorns, like teeny little bulls, and and I cut my teeth on those and that's what made me, you know, be to the level where I am now where I don't mind letting those go now because I know you know, and and so yeah, I think,

like you said, you're getting better every day you're in the Jim. I think, hunters, we only have so much time in September, so it's even more magnified, right, you only get so many Septembers, like you need to be out hunting, learning hunting your craft so that you get better on a very shortened scale.

I think is cool. I'm like, oh man, like either either on the positive or negative, like oh man, I really should have done that differently, or oh I should have done this or that, and that's like now I'm like that's cool, Like I learned that now I'm never going to make that mistake again, or wow, like, oh look at I did this and it worked out. That's that's really cool how that worked out. Oh maybe there's something to learn there too, and to take with me

next hunt. So that's really I think what's the most valuable just being able to like feel confident in those situations and just experience, like you said.

in my favor. And we're going to talk a little bit about more that mental. But the other thing is I've been doing this long enough where you know, the same as in a fight, you might be down by a point, you know, if a minute and the clock's running out, like you've been there enough though and overcome that that you don't get frazzled or like, I don't get frustrated on a seven day hunt because I know

that it's only going to take one. And so like, my mental game is is unbreakable on a hunt because I've been there, I've seen that it only takes one and so I'm just waiting for that one to make, you know, a mistake or things to go my way. And you know, that's one of the biggest things where just tons of experience and being being in that position helps me wear a new guy. They're like, I'm not

hiking around these mountains anymore. There's no WLK out here, or this has been bad three days, nothing's working in my favor. I'm done, you know. And so, yeah, the mental game is is huge in hunting as well.

boils down to just wanting the result. They just maybe want to meet the freezer or they just want the mount on the wall, and that's not what hunting is about. You know, you want to do that, it's not hunting. I don't know, I don't know.

You've obviously came up the right way. But this instant gratification, you know, group that's coming through like hunting is gonna be, They're gonna really struggle because it's not ever gonna unless you're on some private ranch, which I'm not against, but like the outcome is you're gonna it's gonna be like everything else we do in life, where your your outcome is gonna you know, you're gonna have to hit the time punch of time clock, put in the work, do

the work in order to get results consistently. And yeah, I've always wondered, like my kid, I can see it in them a little bit, like like I just want to They just want to like kill on the first day and sometimes be done. And it's like no, this is like a process. This is a grind. It's supposed to be like this, you know, and then expanding on that where it's like, all right, now you killed your first buck yet it was a good little four point, but let's go try to find something bigger and like

challenge ourselves. And he's like, no, I want to just kill you know, I'm fine with that as long as it happens on day one again, you know. And so it's like like you can always challenge yourself to get you know better. Now I don't want to. I'm never won the back away from sport hunting, but I've always felt like you challenge yourself taking more mature animals always,

you know, something that we do. But yeah, it's interesting to see if if these you know, teens and early twenty guys, you know, are going to be able to like put in and grind on some of these hard hunts that kind of what I thrive on.

crazy stuff like that. And I feel like really fortunate that it wasn't like that for me with wrestling or you know, it didn't just come right away and I was I had to put a lot of time and effort in and work hard. So now I just really relate everything to that. And hunting for me has been kind of similar, like you know there, I think, like

you said, that there's a time for for both. There's a time for you know, private land ranch hunts where you know you're going to get opportunity and it might be the first day and like you know, I think that that you're going to have success and there's a time for that. There's also a time for you know, getting in the back country or on public land and doing it yourself and it's going to take some time and maybe you don't see anything. And I think that

they're both. They're both to me just as valuable, and you know, I would hope that there's people that can continue in that mindset. I think, like you said, it's it's going to be more difficult, just with the way

the world works nowadays. But I see a lot of value in that for for myself, and so I just feel fortunate hopefully that I have a son now once he gets old enough to be able to share those lessons with him, and you know, hopefully the same thing with my friends and their kids and things like that, that you know, we can we can hopefully continue these, uh, these lessons and help kind of pass that down in some way.

able to surround myself with. I've just been really fortunate to be around really good guys and really good experienced hunters who who you know, just have the right type of mindset and I've been able to learn with from them, and so, you know, I have a lot of a lot of gratitude for all of my hunt I think that my first archery kill was probably like what I really think about. So I went to uh, West Virginia. I was hunting white tail in an area and uh

my buddy, so I had never hunted there before. My buddy had hunted there for a few years. And it was one of those you know, we we were there for three days and it was like we got there and it's like eighty degrees and we're like, Frank, what are we going to do? Like this is not good? And uh, you know, and and also in an area like he knew a little bit, but like neither of

us knew it super well. So we were kind of just trying to get after it, trying to get get some action, and it wasn't looking good, and it was

you know, we really saw nothing. We saw one deer about one hundred and fifty yards off that was gone in a second on the and then uh, it got to the last morning, so we're gonna be I think leaving around noon and so we had, you know, maybe another hour left to hunt, and my buddy and I we had been kind of doing a little bit of hunting together, a little bit of splitting up, and he was like, all right, how about you know, you post up here, I'll maybe like circle around see if we

can get anything moving. And I was like, all right, let's do it. And this was yeah, like I said, you know, I this was like my first time archery hunting. I mean I had sat in some stands and stuff in PA, but never like took a shot at anything. And so you know, he kind of was still like taking the lead, you know, helping me a lot. And he was like set up, set me up here. And then he like kind of went around and I was on like the top of a like kind of a

big hill and it was wooded. I was like, you know what, I don't really like the spot, Like I'm gonna go down a little bit. So I went down probably like fifty yards and I just kind of sat myself in between these two trees and I had like a thicket on my left, and so I ranged a few areas and I had like a few good shooting lanes and it was just like and I was just kind of like, all right, I'm just gonna enjoy being

here nature sitting. It's all good. You know, Pray a little bit and just thank God for me being able to just be out out and you know, now we're going and we're gonna go home empty handed, but it's all good.

immediately just like heart thumping, like losing it. And so he's he's kind of walking at an angle in front of me, and so I have a big tree in front of me, so I know he's gonna walk out on the other side, and so I already had it ranged, and so I'm sitting down and as he walks by the tree, I draw back and I'm waiting for him to come out. And it felt like it was an eternity and it was probably ten seconds. And so he comes out and almost exactly play perfectly where I thought

he would. He was at thirty two yards and sent the arrow, and it just seemed like everything happened so fast it was insane. And he kind of jumped and kicked and took off, and I was just my heart's thumping, and so I waited there for probably like ten minutes, fifteen minutes, and I was like, I don't think I could wait anymore. Let me, let me go find my arrow.

So I go up and I find my arrow and it's like, you know, full blood on the fletchings, looks like lung, and I'm like, this is perfect, let's go. And so then I sit there another like five minutes or so. It's been like twenty minutes, and mind you might, there's no service, so I can't tell my friend or anything, and so I'm just like, all right, let's see if like there's decent blood. And there was like really good blood,

and so I'm like, I'll follow this. And so I felt followed it down the mountain and maybe forty yards down behind the tree, the buck was right there, and I was just.

about that. I and all my hunts, you know, I don't I want to continue to do all bow hunting, so you know, I just love being up close and personal with the animal. So that's something that I'm really excited about. I would love to do a lion hunt at some point, mountain lion, so you know, that's something

that I'm real, uh, real interested in. But I think, yeah, the main thing I want to do is elk, but I could I could see myself getting into the predators as well, So that's something I feel like it's kind of cool just because of the different mindset, right, Like you know, they're they're not prey like they're they're looking for their meals too, and I like the idea of having of like seeing you know, seeing that.

You know. This year, I'm gonna do Dull Sheep, which was you know, the mountain animals have always kind of been been cool, so we're gonna get that out of the way. And then yeah, you know, talking about dream hunts and Elk like that's I was just I think you would release your Instagram video from last year you hunted with l Oh Outfitters in New Mexico, and I'm like, oh, shooter using one of our tubes, And that's why I

just kind of reached out. I'm like, hey, would you ever be interested in in planning a hunt as me and Dirk we're trying to get our year and so we're actually looking we're going to apply and with l Oh again and see if we can't draw tag this year and go to New Mexico. So I'm looking forward to that.

Like I drive about two hours down to Lancaster Archery and they have a great shop, and they were the ones that originally helped get me set up and stuff, and I still go back. So you know, I think that's something that's so valuable is finding a good archery shop and getting yourself a good setup that you're comfortable with. I think that in addition to that, YouTube is such a good resource. You know. I think that I study a lot of film for fighting, and I studied for wrestling,

and it's the same with me for hunting. I think that you know, you can find a lot of pieces that are super educational, you know, just just just search it up on YouTube. There's a lot of good resources and whatever you're looking to do, even even stuff like uh, packless for gear stuff like that, that's just simple that you probably don't even have to think of that type of thing anymore. But you know, like for me, I'm like some of these trips, I'm like, what do I

even what do I What should I bring you? That's type stuff like that's important. And I think also if you know, there's a lot of hunting videos out there that are like, you know, twenty minutes and they're showing uh, they're they're they're showing the hunt and stuff, then it's it's going to culminate with the kill. Try to like pick out little details that you see outside of like

just the shot. Like I think people maybe fast forward and rewind that they just watched the kill and it's like, dude, there's so much valuable information in that twenty minute video of like like, for instance, a good like it's something that I learned this last year that might seem so simple, but it's just like obviously we know the wind, like we don't want to get scented, But where's the sun at? Like is the sun facing there like the animal or is it facing you? Like are you in the shade?

Are you like just something like this simple like that, like you're like, wow, okay, now I'm gonna position myself in the shade and have the sunshine. Animal like they're not going to seem you know, obviously you know wind is first, but you know, those type of things you can learn through experience and maybe you mess up or you can learn from somebody else's experience, and and so

I think those things are really important. And lastly, just like don't be afraid just get out there right like whether whether you if you're out east, like you know you might have to be sitting in a stand, like just get out as many day as you can go sit in a stand, go go, you know, mess with where your setup is and just try to dink around

and hunt the same area for sure. Like you know, if you're bouncing back and forth between a hundred different areas and you think, oh, I just got to move to an area to find success, like maybe just figure out how to hunt one area, and you know, I think that's that's really important. But like just put yourself,

put yourself out there. Like if you've got to go the whole season and don't see a thing, like that's going to be valuable information for you to learn next year to put yourself in better position.

But there's so much information out there. But I've got the same guys that come to my seminar as year after year and don't find success, And I know I'm telling them everything that I do, and then it's really like you need to go out and take these little bits, but then like develop your own system or figure it out for yourself. In a way. And a lot of that just comes down the time. And I get it. A lot of us have busy lives or they'd rather take their you know, a couple of weeks of vacation

with their family. I don't blame you at all, but in the end, like time in the field is invaluable compared to you know, YouTube, but it can't help fill the pieces in or at least send you in the right direction.

out there experience. And I think too, you know, talk to people, ask them questions, like you know, I think most there's there's some hunters that maybe yeah, they're not gonna take you to their best spot and set you up, but they're gonna give you good information and and and then you know, kind of like I said too, I feel like maybe people hunt like ten different or like one year they hunt this spot, they don't have success,

so they go to a new spot. It's like you can figure out one spot, figure out, just figure out how to hunt it. And if you know there are animals there, you know, just work that spot and you're going to learn a lot. You know, if you just try to bounce back and forth, it's always going to be different. Like if you go hunt let's say you're hunting elk, it's going to be different in Colorado and New Mexico and Utah, like and even in a different

unit it's gonna be it's gonna be so different. Try to try to get out there as much as possible, and if you don't have success at one spot, that doesn't mean that's not a good spot.

So how do you balance your hunting pursuits with your you know, your training and your hunting commitments, Like how are you able to you know, like some NFL star struggle because they're playing football all season, so they're maybe getting the weekend and I have to kind of laugh. I watched the video of CHL who's always critical of everybody, Like the video is like, is bo still honeing right? Because some people say you took a lot of time off from your last fight, but it's you know, you

had a baby coming. There's reasons. But I kind of had to laugh. It's like and now you're on the UFC three hundred card, but like back to the original question, like how are you balancing you know, hunting with with your training and you know, your your events.

like I've told her, I think communicating is important. And I told her I'm like, listen, I'm not going to like this is what I want to do. This is what I'm passionate about. This, I want to pursue outside my career. This is the thing that you know, really just gets me pumped up. So I'm not going to take you know, these I'm not going to be taking other trips throughout the year and you know, dinking around and doing other stuff that's not as important to me.

So I'm sacrificing certain things. So now I have time where I have this month of dedication towards hunting. And the other thing is that's nice for me is I'm able to schedule my fights. So guess what we're fighting end of July or August, So you know, I get that fight and then straight to hunting and now I'm got some time off and then I'm back to camp.

So basically, I'm just building that into my schedule. And I know not everybody's able to do that, like take a month off and stuff, but you know, you might be able to take a week, you might be able to take three days. And so I think whatever it looks like for that individual, you just got to plan ahead, build it out, and be willing to sacrifice you know, maybe some other things, maybe you know your boys want to take a weekend trip or they want this and that.

It's like, you know what, man like that would be a great time, but you know I got to sacrifice that because I'm taking a weekend and here to go hunt. So that's something I think. It's just it's a big priority for me, So I I align my time h correctly right, Like you know, it's it's really important for me to have time to hunt, so you know, other things I'm not going to put as much as much time into and I just build it into my schedule now.

It's not even really a second thought. It's just like that's how it's going to work.

but that's not why I fight. So they could offer me ten million bucks and if I don't want to take the fight and I'm in the mountains chasing elk, then that's what I'm gonna be doing. So the money thing is not really a big motivator for me. So the other things are are a lot more important, And I think that's why people kind of do those short notice fights a lot of times, is oh, this is my only opportunity and it's a big check for me. You know, I don't have that mindset. I'm not I

don't have the scarcy mindset. I'm going to have more opportunity in the future, and the money is not a huge priority, you know. I just I want to do what's best for my career. So yeah, I'm not like the short notice I'm more of a planner.

it's it's the same thing as hunting. It's back to those fundamentals and making sure that wherever we go in the fight, that I have the fundamentals to be able to take advantage of that situation and to be able to put myself in good position. So you know, I never really have a I have a plan and a strategy going into the fight, but really, wherever the situation, wherever the fight goes, whatever situation I'm in, I'm going to be well prepared and so I might knock him out,

I might submit him. You know, it could be a decision if he if he's able to hang in there for me, with me for fifteen minutes. So you know, I'm not really nervous or worried about wherever it goes. I don't. I have many many paths to win to victory. So yeah, that for me, I'm I'm just ready to compete. I'm excited, I'm fired up, gotcha.

a compliment. It says a lot that you know, he knows I would take him down, and I think that, uh, you know, for at the same time that that that's going to be a massive fight. It's an exciting fight, and he's a really really tough guy, tough opponent does a lot of things well. So we'll match up at some point in the future and I'll be ready.