Welcome back to another episode of Cutting the Distance head Day. I'm joining with John White of Northwest spur Chasers. John served thirty five years in the military doing military aviation work. He's originally from the Northwest Hardwoods of Connecticut, where he started hunting at the young age of ten. He moved to Washington twenty eight years ago and started hunting turkey
shortly thereafter, and he's never really looked back. He's had died in the Wool Mountain turkey hunter with a running gun style of chasing and setting up on gobbling birds and prefers. This one hundred to one over out of a blind or pattern turkeys. Welcome to the show.
John, Hey, how's it going on, Jason, Good to see you.
Good good. We're only about two months away from opening day here and it's getting close.
Yeah. The countdown is rolling and everybody's comptable.
How I mean, you're over there more than I am. How was the hatch last year? Everything looking good, numbers looking good.
Yeah, the hatch actually was pretty decent. Birds are actually strutting and moving up already amazingly because we just don't have much snow, so that's great.
Yeah. Yeah, these these Mountain Meriams that we hunted together last year. They love to be at that snow line. They love to be at the top of the mountain if the weather and the food sources let them. So I imagine this year even more so than last year, we're going to be apply chasing birds.
Oh I sure hope. So looking forward to let them spread out a little bit before everybody else shows up.
Yeah, perfect, perfect. So we're gonna start today's episode like we do on all of our Cutting the Distance, We're gonna take some question and answers from you know, our our listeners, our users, Phelps game Calls customers, and if you want to submit any questions of your own, feel free to email us at CTD at Phelps game Calls dot com or send us a social media message and we'll do our best to get them in. These three questions.
I just got done with the Pacific Northwest Sportsman show, John, and these were some of the most questions asked by either new turkey hunters or turkey hunters that started hunting and maybe don't have the experience. So this is where I kind of gathered these three questions from the day. In your opinion, what's the best time of the day to hunt turkeys and Gona. I'm gonna add my own little twist to this because I think there may be a best time of the day to hunt turkeys if
you want to hear gobbles and get in action. And there may be a different answer for if you want to kill birds, but I'm gonna let you go ahead and take that and then we'll all add on.
Yeah, you're absolutely right. I mean, it's definitely a best time of the day if you want to hear them. We all know, get out there early in the morning, you know, listen for them, and you know, so nine o'clock is fantastic. It's one of the best hours, i'd say, of the morning hours, just because birds have come down.
Those that are hand up are going to get hand up, and then, depending on the time of season, obviously some are going to cut away and the times are going to get lonely and start talking again sometime after nine and ten o'clock and they'll start talking. I'm pretty heavy, but I'd have to add to that. At the same time, one of my favorite times would be two o'clocking on in the afternoon as well.
Yeah, and I'm you know, as I can remember, back as a new turkey hunter, it was all about that early morning hunt, you know, sitting under a treaty, hearing the roosted birds. And I loved everything about hearing the woods wake up, you know, hearing the hundred two hundred gobbles plus whatever, you know, just birds all over. But then I started to learn, you know, is all good
hunters do, or people that should be reflecting. I'm like, you know what, it's real fun, but I don't kill near as many as many birds right then as I do later in the morning. And then it was kind of always the running joke is the old timers that have been turkey huting for a long time, they'll sleep in, They're going to make themselves a nice breakfast, be a little more rest, and then then we're all coming in
because we're whipped and tired. They're going to go out and kill the birds that we've been hunting all morning, you know. And it's just it's just that natural biology. It's not saying that you can't kill a bird first in the morning. It happens all the time, especially if you've got you know, if you've got them past and to know where they're going to want to fly down which way they're going to want to feed out. But
it's just the nature of turkeys. And especially as that season moves on and more and more of the turkeys are nesting or going to lay eggs in the nests, are potentially even sitting on the nest full time. At that point, those toms become more and more lonely. And it's just it's by nature, those toms are more susceptible and easier to kill.
I think, yeah, without a doubt. I mean it's like you said, you could dissect that question. This month or this week would be this thing, next week could be a different one, and then the other Later in the season, you'll change those times again, it just depends on what cycle they're in.
Yeah, And like you know, you mentioned the two o'clock I don't remember. We mean, I can remember me and you driving around on my truck looking at the temperature gage. I think it was like in the low nineties, two thirty three o'clock. We were doing short little hikes and we're like, man, we're just it's hot, like we you know,
you kind of feel your percentage you're really low. We stop at one spot, probably our fiftieth spot we stopped to locate get a bird to hammer, and it was one of the cooler hunts we had that, you know, And it was a two point thirty you know, three o'clock calling. Yeah, it took a long time. The birds weren't super active. They came in a little more cautious. But yeah, those birds you know, you say two o'clock,
we talk about nine o'clock. I like anywhere that's not like within that roosting time where the birds become more talkative early morning. Like anything that gobbles in that mid day seems like you have a pretty good chance of capitalizing or having a good chance at calling that bird in if he's very active middle of the day. Anytime from like you said, ten or nine, ten o'clock to two three o'clock is going to be a good hunt if you can get them to talk.
Yeah. Absolutely. On top of that, you know, getting out in the morning, we all want to hear them gobble, and it gives you a chance to listen to different voices and you know, maybe dial in on a voice you really want to focus on. So that's really important too. And then understand they're hearing you when you're calling in the morning. A lot of people make that mistake that you know, he walked away, he's not coming back. Well
give him time, he is coming back. You know. Patience skills more birds sometimes than anything else.
Yeah, and doctor I've mentioned this study multiple times, doctor Mike Chamberlain out of the University of Georgia, while Turkey Lab references it and they've they've had birds monitored where if if that turkey, when he eventually loses his hands, they will typically come back by that spot three to four hours later. It might be a long time, but that turkey almost with very very pinpoint accuracy, knew where that hen was calling from.
You know.
You and they'll come.
Back, yeah, Yeah, they don't forget.
Yeah, they'll eventually come check on you once they're their their live hens leave, So keep that in mind. Like patience is a virtue, I don't have a whole lot of it, you know, similar to John may have more patients than me. But I like the run and gun. I like to be on an active bird and not like slow play it. But it can be effective.
Oh heck yeah. I mean we walk away from so many birds all the time. For the same reason myself, I want to run a gun. I want to play, I want to hear the voice. Yeah, it's just like you want to sit still and wait for an elk to come by, and you want to chase bugles.
I mean you know I want to chase bugles. Yeah, yeah, exactly. I can I sit in a tree stand. I could sit in the tree stand until I heard the first bugle. No, I figure out how quick I can get down on the ground and go chasing around.
So exactly.
Nope, Yeah, that was one of the things we heard that. Of course, being at a trade show, that's second most or the probably the most asked question. I'm new to turkey hunting or I'm I'm getting into it. I'm not a real good caller. What turkey call should I get for hunting? In your opinion? Like where should you start? What should you have in your kit? And then like how do you progress to become a better turkey caller? And what does that look like?
I think straight off the bat, for anyone brand new starting out, you can't really beat a box call. I mean it's not super hard to make the right sounds. Obviously, spend time listening to real birds and try to mimic and I try to learn the language as much as you can. But you know, a box call, as you well know too, they're fantastic, they work great, and I've
had birds coming down the line that I swore. I'm like, well that's another turkey hunter, you know, with a box call, and around the corner comes a hand and it happens every once in a while, like yeah, man, they sounded right.
Yeah last year on the hunt. You know, we're proud mouth callers. I think anybody that's hunted for a long time, like always always wants to go to mouth call. But we got on a few birds last year where I don't remember if it was yours or size bird it was. We tried to, like I always call it, like switch them to a mouth call, Like we got them fired up on the box, right, and then we wanted to switch them to the mouth caall so we can be
hands free. And we kind of looked at each other and we're like, we're gonna keep running the box like they were just hooked on that. And then my bird the long calling where me and you said had to run back to town. It was me and you. I can remember you had your bigger camera and I would like pick up my box just to make sure they were still there, but we could never really get them to gobble to a diaphragm. It's like they just like
the sound of that box. And you know, pot calls are considered easy to run too, but you watch people at these shows pick up a pot call and if they don't know how to angle the striker with allabit a little without a little bit of training, they struggle. But everybody can pick that box up make a sound. And you know pot calls are easy. There's you know, we don't make them, but they are pushpin type calls
that are very, very easy. And then I always feel unless you've tried and practice, And when I say tried and practice, like you're not just saying you had to call in your mouth for fifteen minutes and give up. But if you've put in time and tried to everybody should try to run a diaphragm and learn it and makes you know, hands free, you can you know, make all the sounds with it. We're like on a box call,
you're kind of limited to yelps. You can purr, you can cluck, but you're not gonna make like bubble clucks and you're not going to be you know, do do certain things where you can on a diaphragm. The same with the pot call. There's just certain sounds that they don't allow you to make where a full range of sounds on a diaphragm. So and it's a lot of practice.
Like you know, you didn't get to be as good as calor as you did by putting the thing in for five minutes, and that's how good you were or me. It takes a lot of time, a lot of practice, and so give yourself ample time prior to season. Pick up some diaphragms, you know, and and uh, you know, ultimately if you if those don't work, there's always a chance to buy a box or a pot and still be able to make turkey sounds and effective turkey sounds
out in the wood now. And we all know that does it does limit your you know, movement, It doesn't limit your you know, eliminate some ability to be hands free. You know, for those of you this may be a question that's new for turkey hunters, Like until you realize what movement you can get away with, you may you know, with having a box call on your hand, you may be very surprised that your your first few birds don't come in, And it's because they will pick up any
sudden movement. And I mean that's one of those other things like we don't probably talk enough about, is until you've been in enough call ins and enough situations where you realize like how slow and subtle and what you're allowed to get away with. I think people underestimate a turkey's ability to like, you know, it's that turkey sided you know, eighty yards. You don't like, I really don't know why he left or didn't commit, and you're like, well,
did you move anywhere? Like you might not even question yourself that you had moved, but it may be some movement, you know, along along the way.
Oh yeah, without a doubt. I mean, those are really good examples. Jason too. I'm talking about distance and a bird's ability to peg.
You.
I learned early, early in the in the years when I tried scouting birds at seven hundred yards and the whole group would stop and just stare at me, and I'm like, that's amazing. They are actually seeing me cutting through branches at seven hundred yards. I was totally not moving much. So it doesn't take much yeah.
Yeah, And we had a couple setups last year. I remember the one that came down on like the horseshoe or Saia was hunting, like, you know, we he was coming. We didn't know, like maybe we were in a We had that weird set up in a green bank, like, yeah, was there any little bit of movement? There was there? You know, So you question yourself and and I always think like, yeah, it could be the setups wrong, or we didn't want the bird didn't want to leave his
hand to go there. But a lot of times if you get real critical and look back, like maybe we moved, or maybe we didn't look right, or maybe we weren't you know, tucked in or hidden or concealed enough. Yeah. But so back to back to what call should use for turkey hunting, I would say number one, not to answer a specific type of call, but whatever your most confidence in, you know, whatever you got the most confidence in, whatever you feel like making out there, you know, be
willing to use it. Yeah me pers me personally. We we can talk about all these fancy sounds, you know, yelps, klucks, purs. I would say, you always want to have as many tools in the toolbox as possible. But if you if I had to go out with just one call, like go, go, be able to make your good seven to nine note, YELP is going to do the majority of what you need.
But you know, we but then we will talk about last year's and we'll talk about each situation where we had to cut at this bird and we had to you know, get this one fired up. And so that's where I think, Yeah, you can hunt pretty effectively, but the more you can do, the better off you're gonna be.
For sure, oh, without a doubt. And it, like you said, we're talking about the box call is hard to beat for a beginner. But yeah, you want to definitely start moving into that mouth call and get your reads figured out definitely. What's nice about Philips is they have different size diaphragms, you know, their frames are different sizes, and you get one that fits right. And that takes time
to figure all that out, but yeah you can. I mean you can sit there and cup over it and you can make the sound throw in one direction the other direction. You've been able to create amazing realism. And that's the difference over time. You want to move there.
Yep, yep, so the the third question has a little more to do with locating turkeys. You know, when we hear this every year, you've already hinted on it in the early question, and so it is, you know, these flocks I'm gonna I'm gonna go all the way back, you know, these winter flocks, especially merriams, and you know we're hunting kind of a hybrid mariams rios. I think
they're more considered merriams. But these birds will will and the winter congregate and be in flocks of hundreds and hundreds of birds, right, and then as spring comes along, as you're saying, they're already strutting, they will start the
pair down into smaller flocks. And then that smaller flock may go up a certain valley, and then they'll pare down to ten groups of ten, you know, and then that group may and so you get this dispersion, and you hear a lot of guys new hunters, or even you know, people that are new to an area, like I located a whole bunch in February and I can't find them in the spring, or there are a lot
smaller groups. How do people in your opinion, how should people scout, and then how should people like translate that to the spring opener or the early May season.
Well, you know, scouting is a double edged sword. For one thing, you definitely want to hear him from a distance early in the morning. He's probably the safest way to scout. But if you start moving in physical and doing a lot of moving around and the birds start noticing you, they pick up really fast on the fact that, okay, pressure, things are going to change, they're going to disperse even more so. So really, if I'm going to scout a new area at all, it's going to be with my
ears more than anything else. And buyos from a large distance. But be really careful. If you really have an area you know you want to hunt, turkeys are going to be there, especially you know, we're blessed here in Washington and you know Idaho as well, Montana some sorts. But uh, there's birds. If you've got public land, if you're on it, you're going to find birds. So you know, use your ears more so than letting them see you constantly.
Yeah, and now let's let's say we scouted, but finding turkeys, you know, during hunting season, you're in an area, what's what's your what's your go to? I know we we had a little debate because I'm a guy and I was testing a new call, right, so I've got this this other business case why I want to blow a woodpecker call or this or that? What's your go to when you're just locating turkey? You know during season? Like is this a good area? Should I keep running and gun?
And should I keep running this ridge?
Like?
What's your go to to locate birds during season? To get the hunt started?
Well, my go to is to get up high originally and listen earlier in the morning. If I can get up on a good elevation point, and if I'm going to make a call, if it's early in the morning, you know, you can blow a crow call. You can make just about any loud noise there is. You can use a coyote call. Respectfully, you don't want to be too close doing that because you can set them on edge a little bit too. But evenings are great for coyote calls. They'll gobble to it. Mornings you had that
woodpecker call. It was fantastic. So I mean just about any loud noise that you can make that's reasonable and makes sense in the woods they're going to gobble at it. So that's that's one of the best ways. But I like to start up high.
Yep, start high. And then you were more of a you. You tend to go to your just turkey calls for locating, right you. You We did use some locators throughout, but you tend to you know, loud alps, loud, you know, some cutting, and then that was typically your go to wire in hunt mode. Might as well be the real thing and get that turkey to gobble at you, you know, oh y, turkey calling more so than locator calls.
A lot of people say, hey, man, you call kind of a little too much, and I'm like, yeah, I've heard that before, and i know some other ELK callers have heard that before too, right, Yeah, but yeah, my favorite honestly, because I have followed hens that are looking for a tom. I followed one hen many years back, and she literally went over three different mountain ranges. She never stopped talking. I mean literally, I'm like, is this girl ever going to take a breath? And she was
looking for a tom. So I've learned from the real birds. You can call a lot, you can call an awful lot and become very realistic and they're going to answer if they're there.
Yeah, and I don't like to. I mean, we have did some some podcasts with some biologists and we talk about difference in subspecies. I do want to know that. Like when I'm in Easterns, back in can this not as much calling. Where we're out here in the mountains merriam or Rio's chasing, I tend to call a whole lot more and they're more responsive to call. So it's
you know, keep that in mind. We got listeners all over, so we may not be talking you know, your normal you know what we'd call like your ag edge, hardwood
edge type turkey hunting. This is more of our our mountain hunting where you can get away with a lot more calling and just due to the terrain and vegetation, we might walk one hundred to two hundred yards and this new bird could hear us where you know, when you're in Kansas or you know, Tennessee or where miss it, wherever you might be those you know, flat as a pancake, you can you know that turkey you can hear from
a long way, So maybe you're not. You don't just have to call that much to get responses.
No, that's a really good point. Yeah, for the most part, when I'm talking, I'm talking about our birds here. For the most if we're going to talk about Easterns, the whole game is going to change completely.
Yep, yep. Yeah. So thanks a lot, John for helping answer some of those questions. Those are the three most asked questions we had here at the Pacific Northwest Sportsman Show in Portland last week. Once again, you have questions for me and my guests, feel free to email them to us at CTD at phelpsgame Calls dot com or send us a social message and we'll do our best to get it on here. Now we're gonna kind of jump into our discussion, John, you know, we're getting excited.
Me and you were gonna try to coordinate a hunt. We're gonna be what may tenth to fifteenth, So I'm without giving without giving away all of our secrets. I really love that time of year. You know, the hunting is typically pretty good. The birds tend to do what you want them to do, so I'm excited about that. But uh, yeah, everybody hates when we compare elk hunting
the turkey hunting. But I challenge somebody that hunts them the way we do out here and Washington, Idaho, you know, even Eastern Oregon to find, aside from the physical animal we shoot at the end and the sound, that they make very very similar strategies, very very similar terrain and country, me and you and side and people might this might add the or confirm that we're crazy. I think the one day when so I was hunting, we did what sixteen miles the one day?
Oh yeah, I mean that's not uncommon for me, that's for sure.
Yeah, And so, I mean there's there's a lot of similarities. And I know people hate to you know, out West. I don't know if it's a pride thing or all. Turkey hunting isn't the same as outcome. I get very very similar from any way that I've did it, you know, so very exciting.
I mean, I mean some people, yeah, you're you're absolutely right, But it just comes down to how do you like the hunt turkeys. Sure you can go sit on a field somewhere at a farm's place and you know, set yourself up in a blind, but I mean that's not what we're looking for personally. On top of that every turkey hunt an opportunity to scott for elk as well, and they tend to be in the same places just as difficult to get into. So that's right.
Yeah, yeah, both turkeys and elk this time of year, you know that April May time frame, they're falling the snow up, eating that newest, freshest growth, and they seem to be in the same spot. So yeah, all right, I'm going to start this one a little different for you, John. We're going to do kind of a rapid fire twenty questions here, just your opinion. If you had to pick box call, slate, collar, diaphragms, you can only take one.
I'm going to take a diaphragm every time.
Diaphragm, and then we probably know your reasons, but explain why you're picking diaphragms on this one.
For me personally, I can make every sound that I need to make with a diaphragm, whether it's making it like a coyote. If I want to play like all the kinds of animals, just to do a locator call, I can do that on a diaphragm. I can sound like a young bird, like an old bird, and I can change the direction in distance and make myself sound like I'm in one place compared to another. And they're
easy to pack. It doesn't take much for space they either, So it's just really convenient with lots of practice.
Gotcha, Okay, decoys are no decoys on You don't know if you're going two miles or twenty miles, you're taking decoys or you're leaving them in your truck.
For me, personally, I always have a decoy, and I know a lot of people don't think that's even right, but then again, they're not filming all the time either, and I enjoy filming, so a decoy just gives me more bird time on film, especially if I can get them to come in and strut around it and hang out. I'll stay there as long as I can before pulling the trigger.
Yep. Yeah, we actually I just got done with the podcast, and I know, you know you're you're teamed up with a different company, but we you know, one of the meat Eater brands is Dave Smith Decoys, and just just got done with a podcast on meat Eater with Dave and and they're almost to the point where they've got some people within that company that don't like using the calls. They want to use the decoys almost, you know, they do, they do team them up with calls, but like sometimes
they're like just decoying. So like take the calls away. You got the bird's pattern, let's set this out and see if we can get this bird to do nothing but decoy and kind of kind of you know, for me, I'm like, we got to use calls and tricky, but there are people that you know, just there are different ways to do it right. And we always pack decoys now whether I get that, you know, they're running and gunning set up a lot of times you're like, well we were. It's it's you can't do it on this setup.
But there are times where you know, a lot of our birds we end up on on a logging road or somehow that seems to be our setup, and and you can get them, you know, putt on the outside corner so the bird can see it, it can't see your location. And there are times where the decoys really do help and and add to the situation for sure.
Oh yeah. And sometimes the negatives are when people don't really set them up properly, or they had the decoy facing directly at where the tom is coming from. And a lot of times will come around the corner and see a hend and staring them down and he'll back off. So, you know, try to face the decoy slightly away on a forty five degree angle. Let them know it's just a missive hand and she's just looking for action.
Yep. I know your answer this one, but I'm asking it anyways. Ground blind or natural setup.
Run a gun definitely no ground blind, don't need extra stuff to carry. But then again, I'm not in Kansas or some other place too, So.
Yeah, if you if you had some private ground, you know, this might be for some of our listeners. They're not doing it the way we and we hunt for a specific reason. I do want to preface this whole thing. Like me and John are out there, we hunt a certain way where we're wanting to work the birds without being set up or necessarily patterning them. So we're not
saying this this isn't effective or won't work. But if you had birds on private that were really patternable, and maybe it was a little more open ad country where you know, these these birds don't like to be tight in the timber. You know, Southwest Oregon, these birds they fly down, and they're out in the open for ninety nine percent of the day. Ground blinds might be your best solution, especially if you've got good patterns on them.
So we're not saying it doesn't work, but a lot of times these birds that we find, we literally really had no idea they were there. We had a good idea there should be birds around, but we don't know which pocket, and we're locating birds that we have no idea, and we're just hunting them for the first time in that moment, right, So we have no idea about these birds. And so you know, we're talking into natural training. I like that. I like, you know, the idea that we're
playing them kind of on their turf. We're having to adapt and try to make it work.
Yeah, I mean definitely, if you're going to be in an open field or maybe at a farmer's place or even property that someone's just giving you access to, even in the yard, I mean, yeah, they're going to be in the open areas and obviously set up a blind, get in there in the dark, hang out, let them do their thing.
Yep. If you if you had to declare on your turkey tag, you could hunt from five to nine or nine to one o'clock. What are you picking?
Five to nine or nine till one o'clock? I go five to nine for sure. I want to hear them, and then I'll get in as tight as I can and be the first hen on the ground at the roost.
Okay, so you're going early, even though we've talked, you can have success in both places. You're out there. You want to hear the gobbleys, want to be in the action and make that work. That's a tough one because I mean we've killed birds and you know, at both times. But I agree. I'm a guy that likes the action.
I like to hear all the gods, like to know where all the birds, how many birds are out there, And there's just something about that fly down and birds dispersing and doing their thing that I love to be a part of.
Yeah, you're right, I mean, but if you're looking for just success rate, then another timeframe is probably better for success rate. But if you just want to suffer and really enjoy the calls morning early.
Yeah, you have to hunt alone or you can hunt with a buddy.
Oh, I like them both equally. Fifty to fifty. I mean, I love doing solo hunts. I love filming solo hunts. But then I really love the camaraderie and everything that comes with that, and that's just another hole epic opportunity.
Yeah. No, I'm in the same boat. Yeah, I've probably hunted more turkeys with buddies and you and maybe set a collar back just a little bit. But yeah, I think the hunting alone, especially when I did somewhere around here back when you know we have easterns here in western Washington, we'd go out. Yeah, I love just like working a bird on my own or firing a bird up on my own. You know, it's like yeah. But then, but like you said, hunt with buddies. I had a
blast last year with you inside. So I like, like you said, it doesn't really matter. As long as I'm turkey hunting, I'm gonna be good. Exactly this this question, I know your answer, running and gunning or sitting and waiting.
Running and gunning without a doubt. I mean, it's it's all about the action. It's about the fun, excitement, the exercise, just being out there and moving through the mountains and seeing more terrain.
Now with that said, let's let's dive into sitting and waiting a little bit more during a call, and like, let's say you've running gun to a point, how long are you willing to sit and wait as long as the bird's responding and you feel like you're working him? Or is there a point within a call and you're like, we gotta get up and get a little closer, like he's been stuck for too long or he's unwilling to
get closer. Like how do you make that determination where you're maybe I don't want to say too aggressive, but you know you're being aggressive versus you're willing to sit and wait during part of a setup.
Well, for me, I mean one of the reasons I like being out there early is to hear how many voices there are in a certain area. And just because they went quiet doesn't mean they left. I mean that's something you learned. So then it becomes time to just sit down and shut up and wait for that next gobble to kick off on his own, because that's going to happen eventually. At some point, Tom's going to get
alone or he's going to lose his girl. And you're there knowing that they were there and they still are and you just got to believe it. Have confidence. Wait for that gobble, it's coming. It might be ten o'clock, gotcha.
Traditional camos or gilly.
Suits, traditional camos, Turkey traditional camos. All the Usterns like to wear the elk stuff, which is fantastic and works good. I just I love the more greens. You know, you pick your shuit yep, yep.
So turkey vest or like a chess pack. How are you organizing your stuff and what do you need to take?
Well, because I'm filming, the Turkey vest is better because I'm loading it up with gear, extra batteries, extra this, And for me, I just enjoy the turkey vest. It's convenient for me. For a lot of people who running gun. If you're not filming, you're not hauling a lot of stuff, then a chess pack is fantastic.
Yeah yeah, and I you know, I ran that new FHF gear. You got to see it a little bit. We had one of the prototops last year. It's kind of a hybrid. It's got you know, it's basically a belt, a tactical belt where we could keep our box and our pots. You couple that with a chest rig that kind of holds it all together. You got the foldable seat. It worked really well, especially out west. Now you know, back East, I've I don't want to call it lazy.
I've even kind of got Steve and you know, hooked on this idea when you're hunting Kansas and and that you're you know, we're using the electric buggies or we're using side by sides to get kind of there. I love a low seat and then just you know, kind of keep my my my calls in the chest pack. I don't need a bunch, but I love having like those very low to the ground, you know, recliner chairs, because with the Easterns it seems like I have to
be a whole lot more patient. I'm gonna sit underneath my tree for a whole lot longer, and the last thing I want to do is my you know, butt cheet going numb or falling asleep, and then you're rocking and you're rotating while you're trying to you know. So yeah, I love that new lightweight system. But yeah, with you being self contained or filming yourself, I could see where the vest and additional pockets and additional space to throw your decoys and stuff really really starts to pay off.
Oh yeah, definitely. And yeah, like you said, I mean even your bird with last calling. We were sitting a long time, I think I remember you and not able to almost get up.
Oh my, both of my feet had fell asleep. Yeah, and so after I shot the bird, it was like three or four minutes before you weren't going to like break your ankle trying to trying to walk. So yeah, we were. We were there for a long long time. And that's where my stubbornness comes in because I was more than well to kill that bird and wake my feet up and move around. So we were, we were. We were locked in for the long haul there.
Oh yeah, that's all film coming out in another couple of weeks.
Yeah. Yeah, we're getting We're getting real close. So I'm excited to see how that all comes together. Yeah, if if you, if you had your own private land, I know we do a lot of public. Are you gonna hunt public or private?
I prefer public personally. I mean I have access to a lot of private, but I honestly rarely go there. What I do is I say it for maybe kids or other people that need help, or older folks as well, that we take out and mentor. But for me personally, I'll just go to public because there's so many birds.
Yeah, it's so dang good. Yeah, I know. Last you know, if you follow along your adventures with Northwest Purchasers, you know, you you you utilize that private at certain times or people's first birds or kids, like you said, and it definitely has it's use. And I'm I'm neither. I don't. You know, a lot of people, Oh it was a private land bird, or it was a private land elk or a private land. I don't care. Like hunting is
hunting to me, but I agree with you. I like, I like at this point to challenge myself on public land or land that everybody has to hunt, and it's just it adds a little bit of a level of difficulty. Not that I'm out there trying to find the toughest to kill bird, but it's just it's not not quite as easy as private land. And yeah, you once again, it goes back, do we get done them exactly where
they are? We're not like waiting here for three hours because eventually they're gonna come through this pinch point in the field. You know, You're like, I'm just wherever I found the bird never been here before. It's all brand new to me, and I love that. Like you know, it's you know, there's always a wild card. You can't plan for it.
Yeah, it just adds a whole different level of stress and adventure to it, for sure. And then sometimes just because you got private property doesn't mean it's always going to be easy either, because a lot of people, if they want you, they're killing turkeys. They want everybody else they're killing turkeys too, so you might find it's worse.
Yep, yep for sure. Shotgun or bow, Oh, I love them both.
I used to do archery turkey a lot in earlier times. I just got tired of the mess, to be honest. And the shotgun is this easier again to pack along for filming?
Yep. And one thing that doesn't get talked about enough. We're hunting these in mountainous terrain, right and andy, if you may, even if you make a great shot on a tricky yeah, you can, you know, without getting too detailed, you can decapitated. You know, you can do some things. But if you make a perfect turkey, a shot on a turkey, there's nothing saying that thing doesn't pitch off that mountain and end up flying over a group of trees before it decides it's going to die or expires
or you know, they leave bad blood trails. And so why I I love the challenge of bow hunting. I'm like, there's something about not losing a bird that I feel like I owe them a little bit in a certain terrain and you know where sometimes private land, you know it's flat ground, so the turkey just kind of runs off or you can, you know, keep track of them wearing these mountains. These birds get spooked or get shot, they might pitch off of a mountain and you may
never find the thing. And that's not what I'm out there for either.
Oh yeah, definitely. And it is definitely a much smaller target obviously. And I've been on a few boat hunts with other people where a lot of time was spent trying to recover bird which was never recovered. So yeah, yeah, it's not not enjoyable.
Open open uh in the woods or open terrain or vegetation. Excuse me.
Both have their adventures depends on where you live. But I mean for us out here, I'll always go for the thick and dark and all those inside of twenty yard shots.
Yep, I there. I mean like that spot where U n s I killed your bird, Like it was pretty open up top and then it was timbered. So it's not like thick timber, but it's it's kind of a mosaic and it seems like we end up finding ourselves. You know, some a lot of this is industrial timberland where you're gonna have, you know, thick timber patches, you're
gonna have clearcuts, you're gonna have your road systems. And that's why a lot of time these road systems inside the you know, these heavy timber, it ends up being like good travel corridors. So it's, yeah, I'm with you. I want to be in the woods, be tight, but you know, you may find yourself in a road. You might find yourself in an old clearcut or a thin piece of timber. You know. It's really wherever we find the birds.
Yeah, and they're definitely gonna use every easy access because they love easy traveling too, So you're gonna find them wherever you're walking easy.
Are you hunting the rain or you're gonna just wait for clear weather.
I hate hunting turkeys in the rain. They I hate it as much as they enjoy it. Basically, you'll see them just sitting there, all hunched over like somebody without a rain coat, just miserable. So I'll stay home. It's not worth it. There's better days.
Yeah, you have a luxury. Guy was gonna say, you have the luxury of being close and you you dedicate so much time to it that you'll just pick the good day. And now let's say I'm I'm coming over or I'm coming to an area, I've only got five days to hunt. Might as well be out there. Right. It might not be as good, but there's always a chance. And it seems like we talked a little bit last year where we want the weather patterns to kind of
stabilize for you know, a short stretch. But do you notice like if you come off the backside of a rainstorm, maybe there's a break in the weather and it really clears up. Are you going to get better action? Is that like a good time to be out in the woods.
If the pressure stays the same, then yeah. And even in the heavy downpour, we've called birds in in the pass on times, Like you said, people came in out of town and you know, we got these three days, and these three days are bad. But we can go out there in a heavy downpour and still call a bird and gobblin. Even though he looks terrible, he'll come in. But you know, if I have a choice, it's different.
And like you said, if it breaks, usually they're going to light back up pretty quick, or you'll find them on the edge of a field out here or an opening where they can catch a breeze and dry off. So go to those openings where the wind is live, giving them a chance to dry off.
If you only had you have to hunt your water or hunt your food.
I don't find that hunting near water with our birds is critical, not at all. So food seems to be more important, and that changes depending on what time of the season it is.
Gotcha, we have to make an assumption on this one. You've got a hint decoy, but you have to grab your second decoy. You're grabbing a long beard, you're grabbing a jake.
And that's a tough one too. I mean, a long beer is going to work if you don't put them in a dominant area. And it depends on how I've found personally, it depends on how many birds are in that zone. If there's a lot of dominant tom's already there, then a tom's not going to make a difference. If there's maybe not quite so many, I've found that a jake works really good at a distance from the hen.
Gotcha are you going? Are you bringing a twelve gage or a four to ten or twenty?
If I had a choice between all of them and I only had to choose one gun, I'd probably bring that twelve gage because sometimes out here you are shooting through so pile of junk, So that's going to be the number one choice. If I had to pick.
TSS heavy shot or copper.
TSS every time, Let's see, if I could buy a really cheap Walmart arrow to go elk hunting, would I do that? No, So I'm gonna GOSS.
And TSS like and with to add to that, we both use custom ammal and you've got a custom amimal supplier. I'm using some fox trot that it's just good, and it's it's amazing when somebody takes a little more time and and you know, gets the right buffer and gets like the right load. Just how much more you can pull out of these shotguns which you can only kill a turkey so dead. But like you said, when you're shooting through brush or I don't I'm very hesitant to
use the word marginal shots. It's they're good shots, but you need to know your equipment and that you're gonna have enough bebies going through there to be very lethal and effective. But yeah, some of these custom loads that people are using, now, you know in some of these you know you use pattern Master chokes. I use Indian Creek,
you use it different, just regardless. I guess the moral of the story is know your know your choke, know your load, and know that when you pull that thing, you're gonna have a whole lot of TSS hitting inside of you know, the head and neck.
Yeah, like you said, I mean time on paper, we can't say that enough. Get out there and know exactly what's happening at different distances, what it's capable of doing and TSS. You know, you don't need to spend that much money on a shell. But I mean, if you want to take your best shot, then you might as well be using a number nine BB that has the weight of a number four or five with small, amazing penetration. So why not.
Yeah, No, that's the thing Like I make a point, especially with my wife, I never add up what it costs to kill these turkeys, you know, after gas and tags, and it's like, all right, yeah, these these some of these shells are five to you know, five to ten bucks apiece at times there they are expensive, but like that's the that's another gallon the gas when I just drove across the state and then got to drive all
the way back. So it's like, when the time comes, I just assume kill the turkey, be very effective, have additional effective range if needed, or a follow up shot. So I'm with you there. I like TSS. You know, heavy shot was the best we had for while. And then you know, it's like I had rigs built for copper plated too. It's like, as long as it's good enough on paper, just make sure you're confident in it and know your effective range, and then go out and make it work.
I mean, pick the company you want to work with, whatever shot you're happy with, and what you feel confident with equipment wise, That's really what it comes down to.
Okay, would you rather if you can only hunt in one place? Would you be feeding areas or roosting areas?
Uh? Probably feeding areas to be honest, if I only had a choice of one place, because they're going to go there guaranteed.
Yep. When you call, you either can call very aggressively or you can only call once every twenty minutes.
It's going to be aggressively for me because I really like to make a point and you can demand a tom come. There is a way to doing that when you understand the language a little bit better, and I have a lot of examples of it. So if you're experienced, then you can get aggressive. If you're not, then take your time and listen to what they're saying back if you can.
Yeah, So that kind of that kind of wraps up our little rapid fire section. There is there anything you want to elaborate on? You know, you're a wealth of knowledge. I really enjoyed. I had never hunted with you until last year. And it's it's funny when you know size
has been successful. I've been successful, You've been successful. Like, is there anything that you feel like you do different or maybe things that people don't talk about enough as far as like you know, finding success or things that you do a little bit differently. Is it is it areas that matter. Is it the way you hunt that matters? Is it what are what do you think you know? Give give our listeners. You know three to five good tips that you feel you know, maybe not everybody talks about,
or things that really matter. Like if you could take these three to five things and implement them, everybody out there would be successful.
Uh for me again, I'm going to go back to I really don't have a problem walking and calling constantly all the time. Uh. Basically, I'm not going to walk too far without a call because if you're going to pretend to be an then be a real hen and call pretty consistently in the morning when you're looking for another time, because you're telling them that you're a hen without a time and you're looking to breathe. So do it every thirty to forty yards. Literally, that's one of
my success rates. It's really high. Don't be afraid to go into areas you've never been in before. Don't feel you have to scout it. Just get in there and put your time in. Walk around the perimeter of properties rather than down the middle of them. That's another really good successful point. If you're doing small parcels, don't overlook small parcels. A lot of people want to find that big, giant piece of land that they can go in and play with birds all day long. Some of the tiniest
piece of properties that get overlooked are extremely good. Just walk around the outside of it and don't think. If you see sign, know they're there. So you can stay there all day and keep walking around it calling like a hen. You can demand they come, they will just be patient.
I mean, we were hunted an area last year that had some very very steep terrain kind of over where I ended up killing my second bird with you, and you know, I looked up and there are turkey's up there. It's like everything is holding birds. The mountains are holding birds. It doesn't look like you're cookie cutter Turkey country because there isn't any ag. There isn't grassy roads, there isn't you know, open clearcuts. It's it's all steep, you know,
reprod big timber. But there are birds up there, goblin and it's like if you put an effort up there. I don't want to say I guarantee, but with pretty good certainty, nobody else's messed with those birds because of where they're at. People don't want to climb a thousand and fifteen hundred feet above the road to a high point. But there are birds that are roosting up there on that ridge line, and you're going to be in birds,
you know, and walk us through real quick. One of the big things, and one of the things I still struggle with is I'm maybe maybe too much of an engineer, a mathematician or a guy that wants like everything's a probability, right. And then one of the most difficult things I struggle with in the morning still to this day, is either you roosted a bird at night and you might not know the exact tree, might there might be multiple gobblers. Is it's just you know what, thirty minutes before daylight
and they start to gobble. I never know which one to sit by, or which one to set up on, or you know, in a lot of times it comes down to just our gut feel. But it's like, all right, here's on X. I think these ones might fly down here, I think this is a tree therein Should I call? Shouldn't I call? What's your process in the morning, Like is it a gut feel that this one's the closest, or like last year, we moved a couple times because you specifically thought a bird was bigger based on his gobble.
So we may be like, we're going to set up on that one, like, is there a better way to figure that out in the morning? Is it really just try your best set up close, set up where you think he's gonna fly down.
Well, I mean, again, we're talking about our birds, and I'm not talking about birds in a different part of the United States. So I'll go with that instinctively and say, if I hear him gobbling, I want to try to get in reasonably tight, preferably between honestly fifty to seventy five yards, depending on the cover. Out of course, if you don't have a lot of cover, then you're going
to maybe be at one hundred yards. But if I can get into fifty and still have good cover and start working, then when they start working, letting them gobble in the morning. And then you've got to understand tree talk, and you got to understand what that means and start
talking like a hen that's up in a tree. And if you can get him fired up, and if he's gobbling in your direction, basically telling you he's locking in on your tone and you know there's hens there because he probably wouldn't be there if there wasn't any ends. Then you want to flap slapping your hat on your pants or having a wing whatever you have, and be the first hen on the ground and then start doing a demanding gather up call. And for me, that honestly
has worked more often than not. And have a lot of videos that show you roost work and demanding they come because you're the hand on the ground. And usually if you have more than one time in a tree, it's even better because the younger Tom is going to say, here's my opportunity. She's on the ground. I better get down there fast before he does. And that works really good.
How much can you get away with when they're in the tree, like with the flap down, like they need to be out of visible, like they can't see where that's happening, or can you get away with it early enough? And then like getting into your tree, are you okay? You know once they're gobbling, Like do you feel like you've got a little bit of security to move without them picking you off? Like that's always always my concern, Like all right, they're already gobbling they're obviously awake on
the limb. Can I get to seventy yards or do I need to stay out of there? Can they see yet? You know? Like those are some of the things you just play with. In some mornings you're like, I think I screwed that up, or other mornings you're like, oh, I got right in here and didn't seem to bother them at all.
Yeah, and again, if you had the cover and you can get in that, that's fine. But if you don't know the area, you obviously you better be pretty darn careful if light is starting to come up. If I can see what's in the tree myself, they can see what's on the ground for the most part. But turkeys are kind of funny in this regard. Out here, if if they're up in a tree, they feel extremely safe, and if it's not a heavily pressured area, you have
a lot of leeway to get in. The goal is get in and shut up for at least half an hour. You don't give away the fact that you just sat down, and then they pretty much will forget about the fact that they heard a deer or heard an elk crashing in their way through. I don't worry about making noise, because everything's making noise in the woods.
Yep, yep, no. And that's the thing that usually can let him settle down. Last year in Kansas, the very first day we were there, we didn't get a chance to rouse a night before. It just had to guess set up right under the bird like sixty yards away, had a decoy out. You know, it got daylight and a few jakes flew down and then his hens hung out for like an hour and he didn't come down to fly into those hens until like an hour and
a half after daylight because we were so tight. And that's one of those things where like they knew he knew something was wrong. He knew at some point something but you know, ultimately had to fly down to those hens which were out in front of us and ultimately led to his demise. But yeah, can you can buger him up pretty easy on that roost. And so I think that's where I play a real conservative back out and it might not work all the time, but yeah,
we were we were really aggressive. We did. We It didn't work the one time last year on the roost with us, but we had birds everywhere around this We had hens popping their head up. We were on a we were kind of on a bench that had a real steep drop off, and so it was kind of a an interesting setup how close we and it was it was fun because you never knew what was going to pop up. But yeah, no kidding, Yeah no, that was that was fun. So, uh no, I really appreciate
you having you on, John. You're one of the you know, one of the guys I look up to when it comes turcky hut and get it done year in, year out. You spend you spend as much time turkey hunting as I do el hunting. So I respect that. And uh yeah, you're your wealth of knowledge and can you let other people know where to find out about you Northwest purchasers. Let people know a little bit. I don't want to
mess it all up. You do some veterans hunts. You take a lot of kids in youth their first time hunters, elaborate on that a little bit where people can find you and then can't wait to go hunt with you in May.
Oh yeah, looking forward to We're going to have a blast. Let's just hope for that weather again. Ye yeah, we need some weather, right Although looking really good so far. But as far as finding me, you know, you can find me on Instagram at Northwest spur Chasers, no problem. You can also go on YouTube and I'll answer anything you guys want to talk about. For the most part, unless you're looking for an exact location, you know that's unrealistic. Beyond that, those are the easiest ways to get a
hold of me. I stay on top of it. You can message me through either one and we can talk more. And you know, you look back at the videos. I got stuff up there that's even embarrassing for me to watch. So it's fun to lead the progression and not be afraid to show people. Look how it was in the beginning, and you know here it is now, so you can learn a lot. The veterans thing. I do want to
put a pitch out there for that. So one of our passions is we're always looking for opportunities give back, and so you know, here's harvest Is who I like to work with, and we've been running a camp over
in Idaho. We're actually taking a break this year simply because we want to secure more property rather than constantly bringing people back into the same places and taking birds from a lot of the same places, so we're kind of taking a break to secure a bunch of private properties so we can work our heroes harvest for next
year and years coming as well. But we are going to work with the BHA chapter from Washington of the AFI Armed Forces Initiative and we're going to do a multi joint camp with them, so we'll be helping out
there as well. The other passion I have, of course is taking out kids, always looking for young kids that don't have dads or maybe someone that is just not in their life that needs to They have a need to learn more and want to learn more, so we put a lot of time into that too, and that's probably the two big passions we have.
Paying attention to you. You're always helping, You're always wanting to help. It's one of the awesome things about you, as well as just knowing a ton about Turkey, so I really appreciate you having you on John and good luck in your Turkey season prior to us getting there, and then can't wait to be it up for me.