Ep. 72: North Country Ghost Bulls

the cart before the horse. If you guys have don't know who Dusty is, if you didn't listen to our previous podcasts, there was a I don't know, we did him last summer about filming. You know, it's about cinematography and what it takes to get into it, what it takes to get the job done. What what makes good films? What doesn't make good films? You want to look that back up? It's a few episodes ago. I can't remember what the number fifty. Wow, you pulled that out of

your sleeve like Ron Bergundy pulled the flute. Well played, well played. You probably have the link handwritten on your brand too, if you want to. Okay back, flash backlas htsh. Anyhow, Dusty for the last few years has followed me around during elk season, filming me making me look good as good as I can look. I mean, I mean, I think it looks good, but you know, other people probably

think it's kind of mediocre. But anyhow, all kidding aside, Dusty has a great he's got a great eye for for film, and he's got a really good demeanor and personality to go film elk hunting and any other kind of hunting trips. He's one of those guys that just he doesn't complain. He we are out there in some really awkward, difficult situations in the woods where some people might want to say, screw this, We're going home. And I'm looking at Dusty, I'm like, how's it going? And

he's just like, I'm good. I'm good, you know, no matter how much he's dying inside, he hides it. Well. Uh and then when I do my I call it my trailer park cuisine. I have. I make courmet meals at a very common everyday food that you know, not a lot of people may think is good. But Dusty always compliments me about my about my cuisine, you know. So he's not a picky eater. He will drink a cold beer from time to time with me, which is nice. And he said he's not scared of bears, and I

have not seen him be scared of anything yet. So that's good. That's really good. Anyway. He owns and operates Depth of Field. Yeah, product Productions, owner, operator, head, bottle washer, you name, you do it all, you do it all, Dusty. You know, he's he's edited quite a few films for us in the past, the last few. I've got to do that. But he's very talented. Big help. Anyway, thank you Dusty for coming on today. Welcome, Thank you, thank you.

lots of timber, lots of brush. The film is about an elk hunt. This was in twenty twenty two, right,

it wasn't twenty twenty three. So in twenty twenty two we went out cutting in this place and you know, I think we had probably ten hours of just footage alone, you know, that would film throughout the days that we were hunting, and you have to trim that down to forty five minutes or approximately forty five minutes or less, you know, just to give it some watchability on YouTube, because if it gets too much longer than that, it's really hard to keep people's attention unless it's like non

stop monster bugling bulls. And even then, sometimes I think, I know, I find myself watching videos and even after like a while, you know, you start losing start you start losing the audience a little bit, I think, even on something that's spectacular. So it was it was a

tough hunt. We didn't have a lot of great video of big bulls coming in up close and bugling their head off, and you know, the things that all filmmakers dream of, But we kind of wanted to show the reality of what, you know, hunting in such a place like this. This is over the counter type unit public land. At one time in the nineties, this place was loaded

with elk. Fast forward a few years to where wolves infiltrated the landscape and the numbers have just continued to decline and there's just not a lot of elk necessary. You know, it's not a it's not a target rich environment, but it's one of those places that just kind of gets into your soul. You folks may may understand that.

You know, you may have have some places that maybe you hunted with family, or you've spent time in the woods with family or friends, and it just kind of gets you have a special spot for that place and you want to go back every year, and no matter how how many times it lets you down, you're just like, yeah, but I really love that place. Because you have so many fond memories of it and anyway, that was kind

of place we're at. And we got three call ins on video and we heard a few bulls during that that week, but we had three call ins and we kind of show you know, the raw and real of what it looks like, you know, trudging through the landscape. If if I had to have you give me a to describe in your own words, Dusty, what that landscape? I can sit here all day and tell people about it, but you know, from another person, because I'm kind of

used to that place. I kind of spent a lot of time in those kind of places, those kind of areas, so I have my my my the way I see the world to describe it. But I'd like for you to describe it in your own words and then maybe compare and contrast to what kind of hunting in woods that you were had experienced before, maybe before you and you start following me around, maybe maybe you have some regrets in that regard of following after cony of these places.

I don't know, tell me about it. What what do you think? What?

it's wet, for sure. So that just puts an a whole other obstacle in the way when things get wet. So it's yeah, it's there's a lot, it's a totally different way of thinking, a different way of hunting all of that. It's it's definitely different.

it's a tangled mess. You have huckleberry brush that can be you know, thought thigh high to ankle high, but most of it's at least waist deep, and you have some that's even chest deep. And then you have there's a lot of different kinds of brush, you know, and then you can get in these tag tag alder thickets

where if you've ever seen tag alders. It's a deciduous type bush, but it grows downhill in a downward angle, and then they go grows downhill and then it kind of swoops up and one I don't know what you call it, if you'd call it a brand, they grow in big clusters, but one one stock, one brand, one little bush or tree all whatever you would call it.

It could be twelve fifteen feet long. So it starts low to the ground and then kind of swoop goes for like five or ten feet, and then swoops up another four or five feet, and then it's a big cluster. So trying to penetrate some of that is is rough, so you kind of learn try not to go through those unless that's your only alternative. And a lot of times, you know, the deer and elk don't like to do

it on a daily basis. Either a lot of times they'll have a little trail above it, or maybe there'll be one right through the middle where it kind of gets a little thinner. But usually find these places on those north facing slopes where there's a spring or some place where the snow will linger really long and it's a where the soil stays damp, those tag alders love wet ground. You have mountain maple, which elk love the leaves off the mountain maple or red stamp maple, and

those can get pretty thick and pretty tall. And then there's this yellow brush. I don't even know what it

called it. Some people call it buck brush. I call it just call it yellow brush because in the early September it's green, but as the frost hits it, it turns kind of a bright yellow throughout the fall into October, and if you're lucky, you can get a little snow on it in late October and all the leaves will fall off, and then it's like you can see right through it, but you can't hardly shoot through it with a three thirty eight wind mag it's still the branches

are so thick, so and then it's pretty vertical too, so right, there's a lot of this vertical stuff to wade through. Now, you talked about the dangers. It can be dangerous when it rains. What what what are you talking about? Are you talking about slip and fall? Are you talking about hypothermia? Are you talking about kind of all the above? Right?

that I got. My son Austin pretty good with that a couple of times. That's funny anyway.

kind of stumbling around. So I've always made a practice of having a headlamp and a handheld flashlight because then I can take my handheld flashlight, hold it below my waist and scan the ground with it to make sure I'm not stepping in a hole or stepping on a slick log or on a slick something. Blowdowns, I mean, blowdowns are terrible there too. Yeah. Yeah, it's a wonderful place.

It's it is, it's magical. So what kind of what kind of obstacles does that create for someone trying to film a hunt that kind of conditions, whether it's not wet or whether it's dry. You know, whether it's wet or dry.

eyes can't even see through that stuff. So that that is definitely very difficult and very hard. And then of course with all the falling and stuff, that's that's its own own thing. You know, you're carrying thousands of dollars worth of gear in your hand and trying not to fall or get the lens scratched up or you know any of that stuff.

you're soaked to the bone. Yeah, thirty yards from the truck, from the waist down or even like from your armpits down. So yeah, it's a it's definitely a nuue place. And you know, trying to keep your your your lens, the water droplets off the lens. That's that's a full time job. It seems like even on a pretty nice day, there's always a little drop of water that's gonna get on there, it seems, unless it's just hot and dry, you know, right.

you know, rain gear, but even then it's tough. It's tough because then if you may overheat in your angeer, so then you get wet from sweat. So it's not super comfortable just because it's so difficult walk through that brush. But so typically if it's raining pretty good, we will not hunt during that time. We don't want to ruin the camera equipment because you know, as good as it is, you can't go out there and get it wet and

then now your camera's messed up. And well we were going to film this hunt and it's going to be nice tomorrow, and well we ruined our camera. Great, So we kind of try to pick our battles with all that in mind, as much as how beautiful and it is, and then you talk about how crazy all this other stuff is. What did I tell you about? Halfway through that hunt? I said, Dusty. If I ever say I want to come hunting up here, I want you to look me dead and say you fool? Yes, what's wrong

with you? Are you crazy? You're never going hunting there? I mean I need I need the voice of reason to kind of snap me back into reality, because I do get these I get this euphoria of like old romanticism, of like, oh it's going to be great, it's so pretty, and I've had success and and and then I start like then reality starts slapping in the face, like there's no spot in stock hunting here. If the elk don't bugle,

you're spun out. And with the elk being few and far between, you know, you can go for a couple three days without hearing anything. So I'm telling you this, what what what did you think about that? Did you? Did you tell me that during the hunt? You know, every time I start getting that old time feeling.

that's where the film takes place. I don't want to I don't want to give too much away to to our listeners. I want them to go check it out. It's on the Phelps Game Calls channel. It's called Ghost Bowls of the North. Got kind of a cool little thumbnail of a ghost bowl on the front. And yeah, check it out. It's about forty five minutes. If you like it, comment below, tell us you know, what do you think? What do you think we did. We you know, we we got Sir David Attenborough to do some voiceover

for us. You know, you know, I didn't know if we could pull it off, but he did. It's a great yeah, and it's a little bit. He got a little different twist than our normal elk hunting films. But we've had tons of really good feedback so far. So go watch it if you like it, comment if you didn't like it, let me know. It seems like there's always that one person that comments and says the music's stupid,

Like I don't like the music. They'll they'll have some little jab you know, about the music, and we haven't got that yet. But but I was, I was kind of poked back a little bit. I'm like, Okay, if you're gonna give them a negative feedback, please let us know what you didn't like about it. Was it too loud? Was it too often? Was it the genre? Was it? What didn't you like about the music? So if you

don't like the music, let me know. If you love the music, let us know that too, because, believe it or not, we're trying to refine these films as good as we can. We want the next one to be better, and the next one to be better, and the next one to be better. So for the editors, I edited this one for the filmer Dusty, you know, getting the shots. We're always just trying to refine and make this as

good as it possibly can. So and the bad part is we can't show you everything that happened, so it gives a little more context of why we do and kind of I guess we could have voiced over certain sections and kind of told you why things kind of play out, But sometimes I feel like that voiceover can be a little distracting too. It's like I kind of

like to just immerse myself and watching things unfold. So I don't know, let us know if you like the voiceover telling you, you know, step by step what's going on, or maybe maybe you don't like that, maybe you just like to watch an unfold and figure it out in your head. But we will kind of go over some stuff since we didn't do any voiceover on there, and kind of let you know what happened during the hunt

here in a minute. But first, less shift gears and I just want to say, as always, if you guys have any questions regarding ELK calling Elk cutting why the Maverick diaphragm is better than the pink diaphragm that Phelps likes. You can call it in to our super secret hotline. It's two eight two one nine seven seven zero one. You have three minutes to leave a message. You can leave a message and tell us how cool Dusty is

and what a good film are you is. You can tell us why Jason Phelps is not a great caller.

was camping up there. Him and his son had heard that bowl the day before and bugling, and him and his u son kind of walked over the hill there and kind of bugled at him a little bit, and he's like, man, need to tell Dirk about that. So he told me and we were kind of spun out where we were not having much luck. So we went over there and found the bowl right away. And you know, I feel like there's a lot of folks out there

in the elk calling education world. They maybe they have a silver bullet, you know, you do this, you make this certain call every time, and they'll just make the bulls come in, you know, whether that's a bugle or a certain cow call, or a Estris buzz or what have you. You know, there's a lot of phrases and names of these different calls that kind of been thrown around. But I've always been kind of a different of a different mindset. I feel like I'm always kind of like

the student of the game. I'm always trying to figure it out. I spend a lot of time elk calling every year, and for the last thirty five years, I've spent a lot of time in the Elk woods. And one thing I've found for me is I haven't found that one perfect call that does it all. I feel like I kind of go into it as an experiment every time. I'm having an experiment on what that bowl is going to react to. And some bulls react well to like a really high pitched A lot of bulls

react really well to a really high pitched bugle. Some don't. Some react well if you do a lot of chuckling or grunting. Some react really well with cow calls, and they don't want to answer bugles, but the lancer cow calls. So what I'm doing is I'm trying to find out I'm in the When I first start calling to a bowl, I'm trying to figure out what he wants to reply to. So I'll try three different bugles right off the beginning.

Beginning as I call to him, you know, at any sense, you know, whether I know Elk is there or not, I'll do three three different bugles. My first one is just a long high note locator type bugle, very non aggressive, just a hey, you do you know I'm over here, guys, you know, just a non threatening hey, everybody, I'm gonna Elk come over here. The next one, I ramp it up a little bit. I escalate a little bit, and I give a full bugle from the low note to the high note to the low note, and I'll throw

in like three or four chuckles or crunts. But they're not gonna be aggressive, just it's it's just I've taken it up a notch and I wait, you know, so after the first bugle, we may wait five minutes. Second bugle, wait another five minutes. And the third bugle I'm gonna do is gonna be the biggest, meanest, nastiest lip ball

bugle with thunderous ground shaking grunts at the end. And a lipball bugle if you're not familiar, that's when you buzz your lips on your tube to make that real guttural bas owl sound and then it goes to a really high note and then it comes back off and then lots of big thunderous grunts. And if I don't usually hear anything from those three bugles, we move on. Also, I kind of forgot to say this between those bugles, and I may even just start out with this before

I make any other vocalization. I will make a cow call, two three very quiet light call calls to begin with, because especially in that thick country, you don't know if there's an elk fifty sixty yards for me, right that one time we got out of the truck and bugled and there was a bull that answered, what sixty yards just right out of sight, and we almost killed that sucker.

This was when I had my mouth tab. I shoot my mouth tab, and if i'd have been shooting a normal bow, I'd have killed that sucker dead to rights because we're in that thing forests, and then there were some branches. I could have shot through between the branches with a little bit of squatting in my in my stance, but to squat and pull it back, pull the bow back with the mouth tab, with your teeth, and it was just I couldn't do it. I couldn't make the shot, so I didn't do it. But I mean, we were

really close, so you just never know. So start out with a really quiet call from the beginning, just to make sure you don't have one right right there. Then your next calls, my next cow calls, I'm going to escally. I'm gonna make them really loud to where if like we're at the edge of a big canyon, I want those calls to reach across several hundred yards to an animal, to a bowl that's over there to get a reply. And if I don't hear nothing, then that's when I

do that first located bugle. Anyhow, when we got that bolt answer the first time, he answered one of my locator bugles, I don't I don't even know if I even chuckled. I can't remember a drunded you'll see on the video. But as we as we once we kind of pinpointed where he was at, we hiked in on him, and as we kind of got closer, we got about halfway to him, and it hits a jungle. So I had to I had to call again and kind of try to all right, let's get our navigation or get

our bearings. Here where's he at? And I called it a couple times and I had did like big full bugles, and he wouldn't answer any won't answer, and then he kind of and then fight cow called a little bit, and I remember he kind of did kind of a mony type bugle, and I thought, well, maybe I'll do a mony type bugle, so I gave kind of a mony bugle. Bam. He answered, I'm like, okay, he likes the mony bugles, but he don't like those high pitched

aggressive bugles at all. So as you watch the film unfold, you'll notice I'm not really doing too much of that real high pitch bugle on I do kind of a grunt or a bark at the beginning, and then I give kind of a low mony bugle, and that kind of kept us in the game with him and kept him talking, and he kind of stood he stood his ground, so we got up there, got real close to him. Finally he comes out and we can kind of see him,

and then he kind of disappears. I'm like, okay, typically when those bulls are that close and he's and he's coming your way. Next time he bugles, and when he bugled again, it was seemed very a little more aggressive. So I thought, okay, it's time for me to escalate. So I escalated a little bit. So I gave him a little more than a than a than a moany bugle. He didn't like it away when so he kind of pursue him a little bit, and I'd given him I think a couple three of those big high pitched bugles

and maybe some crunts. He didn't like it, and then I went back to the mony bugles, and at that point the jig was up. So I think the takeaway on that is, you know, don't don't escalate too soon, especially if you get that feeling. I had kind of the gut feeling that he wasn't aggressive bull anyway, and I should have kind of stuck with my my gut on the thing. I should have just like, well, we're just gonna just play this with kid gloves the whole time.

But I you know, sometimes you get a little excited and and I think I turned half elk anyway, when I get in close like that, I want a bugle. I want to want to fight. I want to fight you man. And so I think my excitement might have got the best of me too. So if I had to play that over again, I definitely would have maybe stuck with the money bugles right up to you know, that's all that's all you get. That's that's where I live,

that's where I make, and that's what he likes. And I don't want to intimidate him, and I want him to because I think he came in out of curiosity more than anger. He was. He raked a little bit, but he didn't He never escalated with his voice. He never got really mad. And a lot of times they'll rake for a little bit and then they'll escalate their calls and prety sing the bull will make a bugle that it's undoubtedly he means business. He's upset, and I

always got like, oh he's mad. And usually after they make a bugle like that and I cut them off with my own bugle similar similar status. Then person here he comes. But he never gave that bugle, so I think he was more curious than anything. So then we had the long walk out of there, and that place was a crap hole, wasn't There was blowdowns on blowdowns.

There'd been like a microburst and part of that place and you didn't get to see it all on the video, but there was down timber and brush and it was wet, and I think I made note to Dusty. I told him at one point, I was like, you know, maybe I'm glad that we didn't get that out is we'd have had a heck of a time getting out of there. It wasn't super steep, it was it was kind of rolling. There were some steep spots, but it was so difficult to just walk on semi flat ground. It would have

been bad with one hundred pounds on our back. Yeah, we would have done it, though, Oh yeah, I would have been I would have happily done it, and that after being done, we'd have been like, let's get out of here and never come back. So the bowl number two we heard from a long distance away, and Dusty he thought he only heard one. I swore I heard too. I said, I heard it just a kind of a whimpy bowl and I heard a grolly bowl. But I

don't know. Dusty cant of looked at me, but and he was like, I don't remember hearing a grally bul. I'm like, I swear I heard it. And then we we bugled from across his big drainage. So then we got over on the same side they were on, took this old trail, hiked in on him. We bugled from the trail. We heard a bugle, and I swear I heard a growly just oh down in there. But I don't think that's you heard it. He's just like, okay, Derek, whatever you know. I think he does that a lot.

He just like, you know, yes, yes, Dirk, whatever you say, Dirk. He just like tries to, like, you know, nod, just like okay, whatever you think. Maybe I come up with this stuff in my own head. Maybe I don't know.

places we've ever been in. The next drainage over a couple of years ago, we went down in that same same type of stuff, and at that point we kind of said the same things, like this is the worst place we've ever been in. This place was worse than that, because from top to bottom it was bad. And we get in there and this bowl would bugle kind of off and on, and by the sounds of him, I'm just like, eh, he don't sound like a big bowl. He just kind of sounds like a raghorn five point.

But big bulls can sound wimpy until they turn it up a notch too. So there's always that little carrot the dangles out in front of your head. It's like, well, this thing may he may just be a giant playing possum a little bit. So we got to go and plus I swear, Dusty, I swear I heard a big growler down here.

it was like, okay, let's make our move. So then we took in after him again and we get over on the same ridge he's on, and he just just taunts us, just like he. We get one hundred yards and they're like, okay, this is no time to work my magic, and then he would just move off. So then it's almost like leapfrog. We'd move up to where he was standing from the last time he bugled, and then he would be just one hundred yards further, so

which this is. This is typical elk behavior, right, And he kind of liked those mony bugles too, so you'll see in the video I'm giving him those kind of mony bugles. I'm not giving him those beautiful prize winning bugles that everybody likes to do. And hear right, these are just these crappy mony bugles. It's like a pre pre pubescent boy trying to trying to talk or something, and you know that kept kind of kept him talking.

And then a couple times, once we got up on top of that ridge, I thought, I think we'll put a little bit of pressure on him and he's gonna come in. He kind of start escalating a little bit. I'm like, Okay, this is gonna be good. We're just we're we got good wind. It's it's very advantageous for the bull to come in this spot, but he's gonna have to come in close to see us. We can

set up, we can call. So I escalated a little bit and he just kept on moving off when and I thought, all right, we're gonna step on this thing. So sometimes I take the aggressive just a little. The next step up, it's like I'm just gonna not maybe call as much, but I'm just gonna start walking right

to where I think he is. So we just start walking and start hoofing it, because a lot of times those things will shut up and then it'll just stand there and wait for you to walk up, and they're like, oh, there he is. Jig's up. Well, that stupid thing wouldn't even stand these ground long enough to even catch us, you know, try to catch us sneaking in or walking in on him. So he was clearly intimidated. He didn't

want to fight, and he just kept moving off. So at that point, I think we ran into like a couple of bold moose, a couple, but a most one was a giant, probably a boon and crocket shyris moose. The other one was a little thinking one, like a thirty inch er, and the other one was a big haws And you filmed and tried to film them like it. There again, we talked about film and stuff. You think I think I got it right now? Yeah, Like I'm like,

I'm just canvas in like the film. I'm like, I got to show these moose and and they're black and they're really hard. They don't stand out in the video at all, so.

I've got a car blowed. Hey. We eat healthy snacks though, fruit leathers and protein jerkys and nossages and stuff like that.

a lot where the bugling has kind of gone stale. Well, we'll just find a good spot where the wind is good and we have a good vantage point to where we can hear a lot of different directions, and we just sit in that one spot and just call, and we just start calling sparingly in the beginning, just a few cow calls, and then after a while introduce a bugle.

It's almost like cold calling, right. And as let's say, we do this for thirty minutes, and as as we get closer to that thirty minute mark, you know, we're constantly escalating. By the time we get to the thirty minute mark, I'm cow calling, and I'm bugling almost every breath, right, and maybe I get up and run around or throw some sticks around or roll rocks down the hill. I want to paint this picture that there is a cow

and heat. There's some kind of a rut fast melee going on up here, and a lot of times during that sometimes you'll hear a bugle, but more times than not. Once once you kind of quit doing that, and then you just you turn it off. Thirty minute mark. Shut it off, Sit down, be quiet, shut up, put your head on a swivel, and you after about ten to fifteen minutes, pretty soon you'll hear You'll hear a bowl about as far way sometimes you can hear him, and

pretty soon closer, pretty soon closer. Well, we did that, and we didn't hear squawk. You're bugling over to that next big that next big canyon where that growler was supposed to be. And evidently he didn't get the memo he's supposed to participate when he hears that sound. And so after sitting there for I don't know, probably in an hour, then we're just okay, nothing's happening. And that bowl we've been chasing all morning, he shut up to you.

So it's like, well, let's get out of here. So then you have to do that terrible walk of shame out of there, and it's you know he talked about it before. It's brushy and steep and yucky, and it's hot, and by that time, you know, of course it's it's warmed up. And now we have the sun on the hillside, wearing too many clothes, and yeah, it's it's it's fun. It built character is what it does. You know, It's if it wasn't for all the beautiful fall colors, you know,

you may not you know, appreciate it as much. Anyhow, that was kind of the strategy on that bowl, is like try not to work him up too hard, too quick, just kind of not be super aggressive until it became advantageous. We got out of that thick brushold he did. I

guess I'll back up. He did come into probably ten yards fifteen yards maybe I seen antler tips, but he kind of came in quiet and I heard him rub it, and then I'm like, oh, Dusty, And then I went and I called and he didn't come out, and like, all right, let's move up. So we moved up there and we were I don't know, ten yards maybe, and I seen an antler tip. I don't think Dusty could see it. Just from where I was standing. I kind of see it looked like maybe a five point just

by the splits on his on his antlers. And then he moved off, of course, and then we you know, followed suit after that. But yeah, it's my advice, is I mean, you don't want to give up too quick. We could have like when he moved off, then maybe the smart play that would have been all right, let's pack it up, gets get out of here and go find one that does want to play better. But there's been times where if you just give him that little nudge, pretty soon it's curiosity gets the best of them, or

maybe you fool him into getting mad. You know, it's almost like on the playground when there's a kid you want to start a fight with and you just to start poking them a little bit and poking them, just these little nudges, and finally you just you break that barriers, like, all right, I've had enough. And I was kind of hoping we would get that. But yeah, he that guy was a rock. He was an oak. He wasn't oak.

He was an oak. He wasn't going to lose his temper. Yeah, he he probably listens to a lot of JOCKO will link, you know, and not loosen to his temper. You know, he goes the enemy, right guys, you know, and he knew. You know, I'm not that tough. I don't need to fight. I got nothing to prove here, exactly Good the elk doesn't want to fight. Good. Good, find another one. And then the third bowl that we got on, well, one thing I will mention is this hunt. We mid hunt.

I got news from home that my wife Jessica was in the hospital. She has appendicitis, and I'm like, oh, pendicitis. I know people that had that. That's that's not a big deal. I mean, they just do a couple of little poke incisions and they fix you up and you're out and it's not a big deal. I know two or three people they act like, no, it's nothing. They were back to work within a day. Well, no, she

had to get a major surgery. They had to cut her way open, they had to they had to dig in, had to remove someonetestine, they had to like kind of stitch it back together. It was a very very major oldeal and we had to cut the hunt short. I'm like, okay, we got we got one more half day to hunt. We can hunt till noon, and then we got to get out of here. So because she didn't you know, my my, my wipe, my my kids were down there,

and then her friends were there. But I needed to get back home, you know, as quick as they could. So I'm like, all right, after this hunt, this this half day, we got to get home. So the night before that half day, we'd we'd we'd called down into this really steep, nasty, like almost vertical, like you could see eight hundred vertical feet straight down and you could have probably thrown a baseball straight out, you know, to

hit the bottom. I was like it was that vertical and across the draw on the other hill side of bowl answers, and as a five point he started coming out crossed and start he was going to climb that hill. To us, I'm like, oh, if that sucker climbed this hill,

I'm gonna shoot him right here. But there again, we didn't get anything good on video because it's he was a long ways away and we don't have all these big telescopic lenses because we're in brush country, USA, so we don't have these big zoom lenses to zoom in and see the bulls. So there wasn't really much to show there, so we left that part out. But so the next morning we have this half day, I'm like, we got to get back in there. That thing was

pretty hot. We'll just slip over there and get him to talk and we'll pinpoint him and then we'll go down that ridge, walk down there, shoot him, pack him out. It's not that far outpack We'll be out of here at noon, easy, easy. Well, the next morning we get there, that bull would not make a peep. I think he smelled us that night. I think he must have smelled us or something, and he you know, fooled me once. You know, he ain't gonna be fooled twice or smart.

So we stood there for quite a while calling, and then I pulled out my my external call, the external open read cow call. And I always say those things like ten percent of the time. They work every time, and I start blowing on it. My brother always makes fun of me. He's like, God, that thing does not sound like an elk. That sounds terrible. It sounds like a weird bird or something like. I know, but sometimes bowls like it. For whatever reason, maybe I sound like

old Mary Lou from last year. You know Mary Lou. She's pretty crazy ex girlfriend see crazy girlfriends sometimes. Actually she wants child support. But anyway, I started, I blew on that thing, and baham, we got an answer. And I'm like, Dusty, that's a big that's a big bowl. That's not that little one. So we make a quick plan. We throw our packs on, hike out this ridge. I'm like, oh, yeah, he's just right on that ridge. Can he sounds like

he's just right over the roll of that ridge. We get down there, we set up, we start calling nothing like man, he's just like gotta be right here. Nothing didn't. He didn't bugle anymore. I'm like, man, well, we've walked this far, let's walk a little bit further and bugle over this next little backside of this little ridge here and see if we can get a little better bird's eye on him. So we get over there, boom, he answers he's not on the ridge we're on. He's across

this big drainage on the other side of this canyon. Well, from our elevated position where we were calling, we could hear that bowl from that other side of that other drainage, and the sound was traveling straight across that big ridge that we were standing on up to us up high. So we had this depth perception issue, like we thought he was on the ridge when he was another five hundred yards or further six hundred yards. The crow flies

on the other side of this other drainage. So anyway, we get down there, I'm like, man, the toc the clock is ticking. So we get down there and we do a bunch of calling and and it seemed like I kind of pinpointed him. And then about the time we get him pinpointed, he just shuts up. And I'm like, well, at this point, I'm feeling pretty low. It's just like, man, we're not getting an elk stupid place, Dusty, what did I tell you to tell me? What are you supposed

to be saying to me right now? You fool? I felt like a fool, Like, man, I just why do I come back to this place? This is dumb. I'm just I'm wasting my time and spinning my wheels. You know I have that all those doubts. You know, this is I'm a fraud. I'm a fake. This this doesn't work. What am I doing? So we back to the snacks. We own some snacks, and snacks always kind of make you feel a little better, and you know, get a little sugar, and you know those organic mangoes. You know

you can get a Costco. Those things are so good. I ate a bunch of I'm like, I'm gonna eat all of.

lip bawling. And then I had that open reed and I was blowing on that thing and I was making up stuff. It was like these quick, god awful calls. Like if any human would have heard that, there had been like, good God, who is down there? What are they doing? That sounds terrible? My brother would have got up and left. He just shook his head like I'm out of here. You're a You're a fool. He had a double fool, double fool, you know. And I thought

this will get that bold to bugle it. And before that he would bugle every now and then, but not much, just just to just kind of oh, because he was bedded across this hillside, you know, and we're approaching the mid day out of the twelve o'clock midday madness hour, r and I escalated to the to the crescendo, and then I stopped, and I was like tea, and he didn't bugle. Actually, he went completely radio silent on us.

So I wish we could have. I wish Dusty could have been like taken like eight different angles and me doing that, because you guys probably would have been like, oh yeah. But I think at that point, Duty just like, hey, yeah, yeah, hurry up, get it over with. This is not gonna happen. Hurry up. And we got to go, and so we just I'm like, I just clammed up. I just clammed

it up, which you're supposed to do. We set there for I don't know, fifteen minutes and then all of a sudden, bam, he answers, he bugles, and it's not just the old mony bed bugle like it was a It is a pretty good, you know, mature, growy sound of bugle almost sounded like a planer, like a woodplaner when you put a freaking two by four in the old planer and he goes that makes that really gnarly sound. Is almost that that level. And I'm like, I look

at thisy and like we got him. Yeah, do I call? No? Do not call? Then pretty soon, you know, he he went fifteen minutes without calling, then he bugled, and then thirty seconds later bugles again. Pretty soon he bugles again, and he's like, hey, what happened over there. They sounded like a party. Now there's no party where everybody go. I think I might want to go to the party. So I let him bugle three or four times on

his own, and then I started calling again. But when he went and I but I didn't go right to the bugle. When he bugled the like when I said, okay, I'm gonna start answering now, I started giving him these cow calls, and I the best way to describe him is kind of a longing type cow cal like me, like really high pitched long, but then draw it down slow, like hey, like I'm talking directly to you, not this jerk. I'm talking to you. Come over here and save us.

This guy's kind of a jerk. His horns aren't very big. I want you to come over it because I think you sound pretty hot. That's what I'm trying to tell this bull. And when I would do that, he would answer, and then I would bugle. So he hadn't moved. He had not moved the whole time we were there. And as soon as I started doing that, the next thing he knew he had moved from his original betting spot halfway down the hill to the crick, which was probably

a few hundred yards. You know, pretty soon he bugles again, he's in the crick. I'm like, we got him, Dusty, we got him. So now we have to move like he knows exactly. Elk have radar, they have on X maps built into their brain and their gears. So I'm like, we got to move over here and get ready to waylay him unexpectedly when he climbs up the hill, he'll be just walking up the hell right to where he last heard us, and we're gonna get him. Well, he

got that crick. I don't know if he laid in it or he took an extra long drink, if you had to poop. I don't know what happened, but he stood down there forever. It seemed like forever. I'm like, I'm starting to get worried. I'm like, where is he? So finally I'm like, okay, so I made some cow calls and a bugle and he answers. I'm like, okay, okay, he's right there. He's and then he climbs up and then he bugles again at like sixty yards, but off

to our left, not where we anticipated. Typically on these situations I have, they'll come in on a straight line. Right to me, if they're going to come all the way across that hill, they're not going to do no circle in nonsense. They're going to come in on a straight line. I've had this happen a lot. They just come in on straight line. So I'm expecting him to come in on a straight line. Well he came off that straight line and he was off to our left

about sixty yards and we can't see him. It's just I don't know how we couldn't see him. It was just like it was right there right and I'm like, oh, yeah, well he's going to walk across that little tiny opening and I'm gonna zing him. We wait there and we sit there nothing and nothing. And on the film you see this and it it all happens very fast, but I cut out, you know, an hour of us standing there on one foot like waiting for something to happen,

and then flies buzzing around. You know, you can hear bees and flies and birds flying over, but I cut all of that out so it speeds up the process to make this video watchable and short. But anyway, I'm like, I don't know what happened. And then Nick, I'm like, I think, I think the jig's up, Dusty, I think. And then right up to where we where we had our our rutfest party, where we had the cow party,

where people were these these elk were rut drunk. They weren't running around, they were cannon balling into the water. They were doing all sorts of crazy stuff. They were saying some stuff that can never be repeated. He was standing right up there by our packs. Yeah, and he barks at us and it starts chuckling. Mind you, this

is directly upwind, down wind, down wind. I keep on saying it row It's he was directly down went up the hill, but down went because all the thermals are blowing uphill, so he's he's downwind of uphill and he's barking and chuckling. I'm like, well, he's chuckling, it's just not barking, so maybe there's a chance. So I go into bark chuckle mode. So I start copycatting bark chuckle, And a lot of times the bulls come in and they think something's amiss, or they just want they want

to see that other bowl. They will bark like hey, show yourself. So I start barking and chuckling. I'm like, well, maybe he's never smelled people before. I don't know. It don't make any sense to me. But at this point this we're we're in overtime. We're in We're the sudden death overtime. So I bark, chuckle, He barks and chuckles back and forth. We run up the hill, get get up there, and I'm just like, Okay, there's no way that he's gonna be He's gonna just bark and chuckle

and run off. So I make a bee line. I'm walking and I look up and there that sucker is standing there looking at me, Dusty. He's not right behind me, so he don't see him with the camera, but he does seem kind of escaping. You get a little shot of him escaping through this in the shadows of this tree and I and I don't even have my tube in my hand. I just start because I've drawn my bow. As soon as I see him, I stop, I knock an arrow and draw my bow and I start barking

with just my diaphragm in my mouth. I'm like, whoa. I just start barking, and finally he just stops and I've got this little tiny kind of window. The tree is there. I'm like, okay, how far is he? I think I's forty five, maybe forty, I don't know. So I put my forty pin right in the middle of that. I'm like, I can see his shoulder right there. I'm like, all right, I send it. It cuts off a branch and the arrow disappears, and then the next thing, you know, I see the bolt run off. I'm like, did I

get him? I think I got him, And then he barks at us and chuckles again, like I'm pretty sure I didn't get it. So we continue this cat and mouse game of barking and chuckling and advancing, and I would bark and chuckle, he'd bark and chuckle, and I'd run up, you know, as fast as the fat kid can up with that steep hill. It didn't look that steep on the hill on the video, but it's steep

as the back of your head. So we're running up the hill as fasts we can, panting out of breath, and every time I hit a flat spot, he would be standing there waiting and I would catch him like turning and running because he didn't get a good look at us. He would just hear us coming and he would turn and they would run off off to the

next spot about sixty eighty yards bark and chuckle. So we did this leapfrog thing up the hill and finally, the last time I seen him, you can on the video you see just a little little little flash of him disappearing. I'm like, well, the jig is up. So we sit there and man, it's time for the real pity party. Now. It's like, dude, that's it's not the biggest bull I've ever seen and over the counter unit, but it's probably the biggest bowl on over counter unit

I've seen in twenty years. I don't want to throw crazy numbers around, but he was a very very big maturable, especially for that country. Usually don't see him that big. So anyway, I have my petty party. I talk about it a little bit and then we let's go. You know, let's go check the arrow. You know, maybe maybe I've heard bulls bugle that I've got hit before we got we gotta be one hundred percent sure. We go down there,

look around, there's the arrow. And as I reached down to get the arrow, he insults her injury by barking and chuckling at us again, and it's like he left, and then he came back and stood right where we were standing the last time when we turned around. So I pick up the arrow. I'm like, well, there's no blood on it and it's clean as a whistle, So I put it away. Dusty, what do we do? Like, I guess we run back up there and see maybe and the whole time I don't understand this. The wind

is blowing straight to him. I've never had this happen before. It defies every law of nature and everything that anybody's ever told you. If I had somebody tell me this story, I'd call bullshit, you know. I would be no, that that's not that didn't happen. Okay, all right, Okay, that's what happened. That's what happened. You know. Dusty is my witness. And we go right back up to the same spot and he and he and we kind of did that same cat mouse thing, and he didn't linger that long

that time. He kind of just disappeared and quit talking. So at that point we were very sad and we had to walk back down to him. They dropped out probably three hundred feet maybe back down to the packs again and get her packs and then make that long walk out. And it was it was it was a nice day though. It was beautiful. It was really clear. It was probably about eighty degrees, so it was a really good day to trudge through that brush all the way back up to the truck. You know, it was

a it was a nasty climb. But and on the way out, what did I say. I'm like, Dusty, yeah, right here, i can start putting some trail cameras. I've got an idea. I could probably hack a little trail over here. I could put some trail cameras right there. And what did you say, you fool? You know, old my nature. She just shook her shook her tail at me again, to shook her old tail feathers at me again. And I was like, I was hooked. I was one

hundred percent all in coming back next year. I'm like, oh, you don't get away with it.

There's there are very few and far between. But if you figure out where they're at, it can it can be amazing. But they're like ghosts, like some people don't believe in ghosts. I took my brother in law up there one summer scouting and he's like, there's no elk. Care in no way, I'm hunting here. I'm like, there's elk here. He's like, I'm not, I'm here. I'm never hunting here. I couldn't talk him into it. This was several years ago when it was better when it was

even better than it is now. This is before it's kind of like got to where it is now. It's like, oh so yeah, but they're like ghosts some I had one person one time tell me he called them vampires because he's like, once they shed their velvet, they're like a vampire. He's like, they do not show themselves in the light of day until they start rutting a bit, and then they come out and run around until that's done, and then they just disappear again and just amazing. It's

it's amazing. Yeah, that's that's a great way to say it. Yeah. So what's your takeaways, Dusty from the film? Do you recommend it? Do you do you wish that? What do you what's your takeaways from the film? Well, people like.

in there and be ready for the evening hunt. Just stack them up. We get up there and it looked like there had never been an elk in there in the last ten years. It was just ghost town. No no fresh scat. There was some old white scot from like last year, no rubs, no tracks, And it wasn't that many years ago that every year, any day of you know, the last part of September, you could could hear a bull in there, if not kill one. So you know, the landscape changes every year. So that's another

big takeaway. You know, if you have your favorite places, no matter where you're at, no matter what state, no matter what kind of place it is, you know, from year to year it changes a lot of times. It depends on snowpack, it depends on the moisture you get in the summer, elk, or just in different places. You know, they're not always in those spots, so you have to be willing to branch out and try other places, try different tactics. And another thing is you just can't give up.

Like it's easy, easy to get up, give up at that point when the cards are down, but you just have to have that faith. You have to ride that that leap of faith or have that little faith. It's like, this will happen because I know it'll happen because I've been there before. I've had success before doing these same things and these similar type places, and it's going to happen. And you just have to hold that faith because if you don't, if you give up and go home, you lose.

If you stay, there's there's still a chance to win. But yeah, well are you ready to go back there this year? Fool? I kind of knew that was coming. But Dusty, hear me out, hear me out. I'm gonna put some trail cameras up there, and I'm sure you are. I have some sitting up there. I put them. I last summer, I went up and I put trail cams out. Again I'm and they're still there. Like I'm gonna go this summer, check though, pull the cards and devise a plan,

and we're going to be back in there again. And then this time it's going to be different. She's gonna love me forever. This time. You are a fool. Oh thanks for coming on. I always enjoy your company. And yeah, the conversation, yeah.

camera guy when I'm not using him, hit him up. Yeah, you'd definitely like to follow you around the Elkwood's deerwoods, fishing woods, fish I mean yeah, yeah, or maybe your small business and need a little bit of help, you know, doing some cool film to promote your stuff. If we can talk. Yeah, but yep, thanks again, and thanks everybody for listening. We'll catch you on the next episode. And remember,

monsters are coming. I always say that I keep just going on to those next ghost bowls as there's a monster coming. All right, I'm ready. Thanks