I'm joined today by my good buddy Randy Milligan. Randy goes to work every day as a c p A where he's a principal in Arkansas, but his real passion lies in farming for turkey and deer at his property in Kansas. Today, we're going to discuss what he sees as an essential habitat for turkeys. This information should be just as helpful for public land turkey hunters as it is for people on private It should be a great conversation.
But first let's get to some listeners questions. The first questions we got from our listeners is what kind of calls do you like to use? And so for me, I'll take a stab at it and then I'm gonna throw it over to Randy to kind of see how how are our kids kind of compare and then how they differ. So what kind of calls do I like to use? Being a you know, elk caller that that's kind of transitioned over to turkey. Really have a love
for turkey. I always have two or three diaphragms, And with that said, I'd like to have one that's that's fairly heavy, you know, a fairly raspy call, and then I like to have one that's pretty clean for for light subtle calling. UM, I'm always gonna have at least one pot call on me with a couple of different strikers,
and then I'm gonna carry a box call. So on those windy days, you know out here in the Pacific Northwest, we have really dense you know, vegetation in some of the areas we hunt, and we really want to reach out and touch them. We'll we'll grab that high pitched, you know, loud box call. With that said, I would say eighty percent of the time we're running diaphragms, but there's just certain birds where that pot caller, that box call is kind of the ticket and you gotta kind
of stick with it. But um, that that's kind of my setup. Keep it really simple. You know, there's a lot of different you know shape gobble calls. There's you know the spring loaded you know, cluckers and stuff like that. But I keep it pretty pretty uh, you know, playing with some diaphragms, pot call with a few strikers in a box call. What do you use, Randy, Um, as far as what calls do you like to use? You know,
I'm kind of like you. But I have a pouch full of mouth calls, so I have several mouth calls. I may have five or six different mouth calls. I normally carry two, at least two podcasts. One of them will be a slate call. One of them might be a glass or you know, something like that with several strikers and I and I too carry one box call. Now I use mine a little different. Where in the mornings, when I'm sitting on a roost and I'm close to it, I'm normally always used that pod call. I can get
as low as I can. It's quiet. I don't want to be very loud, so I'm using that podcall. Once that turkey hits the ground, I'm normally going to a diaphragm because you know, I don't have to move my hands. I feel comfortable calling that mouth, you know, with a diaphragm. And then I keep a box call. A lot of times I'll hunt different states. If I'm in Texas or something, or in Kansas. As you know, he came out and
hunting with me last year. It can give very wendy, So in the middle of the day, I may hit that box call where you know I can make it pretty loud. So, uh yeah, I try to. I don't really use a shape tube or anything like that. And those those are my three go to calls. Perfect. Perfect. You brought up a point. Um, you know, turkeys on the roost. It's it seems to have been like my Achilles Hill. If if I called to a bird on the roost, my chance of killing them seems to be,
you know, very very slim. What's your success in calling birds off the roost? Um? You know with some light you know, tree yelping and and some you know, real light calling. Like do you have good luck with that? Or do the turkeys just tend to do what they want to do and go to the opposite direction. Um, if you make a peep, you know, I've had luck on the roost. And I still I was in Texas last year and the buddy and I doubled off the roost called him into us. But uh, you know, I start,
I kind of let the turkeys tell me what to do. Uh. If I'm sitting on a roost and the gobblers or goblin the hens aren't any noise, I'm not really making a lot of noise, you know, I'm gonna let that gobbler know where I am sitting there. I try to get as close as the roost I can without bumping them. But uh, you know, I'll let that gobbler know where I am and and then you know, cut it off. Now if the hens get real vocal, I don't normally get pretty vocal, so I just kind of let the
turkeys tell me what I'm gonna do. There you go. The two questions we got are both related around calls and and there's not a lot of other information around this one, but how important are calls? And I'm gonna I'm gonna kind of add to this question, so how important there calls as far as if it was like calls versus you know, habitat and you know, turkey population, or how important our calls to your success could have been in another way to to kind of put that
out there. But we'll just I'm gonna let you answer this one first, Randy. How important are calls um to you as far as spring turkey season goes? You know, I'm I'm I would tell you if I was saying, what's the most important is it? Turkey hunter, I'd say the Woodsman ship, you know, to get around in the woods, where to set up, to get on the ridge in front of and things like that. What I enjoy about the cause and the reason I try to be good
at it. And I can't say that I'm a great caller, but I you know, I've killed a lot of turkeys, and I practiced quite a bit with a call. I want to be able to know when to call, when not to call, and when it is time to call. I want to be able to use it and and be able to use it without you know, sounding like somebody scratching a chalkboard. And so I have over the years of practice with a call, and I want to make sure the three calls you talked about, the mouth call,
a slate, call, in the box call. I try to be efficient at all three of them. Now, as long as you're efficient at one of them, I think a lot of people, can you know, will kill turkeys. I don't think it's the most important, but I think that calling and woodsmanship are the best, you know, the two things out there that you've got to be pretty decent that, yeah, yeah, for sure, you know, I love to make the calls
the most important. But just like you, you know, woodsman ship, um, you know understanding of what that turkey wants to do throughout the day, from the time they you know, come out of the roost to feed, you know, uh, you know, following his flock to you know that that tom breaking off later in the season. You know, all that stuff
is is is quite a bit more important. And you know, like Chris and Dirk's bird last year, you know what I would have loved to say, we called those things all the way across the field, but we spotted him, um worked the terrain, you know, worked the vegetation, got set up, and you know, let those turkeys do their own thing, you know, ultimately lead to us back in
those turkeys. So you know, I love to call turkeys in the spring, but just like you, I think there's a lot of other stuff that that may be more important to you know, to being successful. All right, Well, now that we've got those two user questions of the way, let's jump into kind of the reason, you know, the main reason we brought you on. And don't let Randy Foolia out there. He's a great turkey caller, knows what to do, you know, makes the right noises. Uh, you know,
he can call for me any day. But uh, you know, it's more of what do the turkeys need? Um. You know, there there's areas we've we've all seen it lately. You know, your your own home stata, well not your home state, the state you hunt in the majority of the time, Kansas, UM, seems like the population's way down. You know, Missouri's trying to figure out right now why they're turkey populations you know,
way down. And so you know, one of the questions that needs to be answered is what do turkeys need? What do turkeys need to thrive? What do turkeys need just to get by and live? Um? You know, what's required, what's preferred, what do they prefer? Um. There's a lot of different answers, but that's kind of what we're gonna
tackle with you today. Randy is a guy that sets out and and just being able to spend you know, five four or five days at your property and just kind of see everything that's been built for the you know, the deer and the turkeys out there. UM. You know, be a great guesses to go over you know, some
of these questions we have and then get your opinion. UM. Since you've got to you monitor the property and kind of see what they do like and where they do prefer to go, and how you've been able to keep you know, your numbers on your own property so high compared to you know, the surrounding properties. Jason, I there's
so turkey populations and you're correct, you know. I I read in the WTF and all these states and numbers are down and and a lot of areas and even in my area in Southeast Kansas, we used to have a two bird limit and now we're down to one bird limit. And you know, there's so much that goes along with that, you know, raising a turkey, as I call it, And you've been on my place. I try to make it better every year. I try to do
something different. And if it's planting, you know, gobbler sawtooth trees, which I have several planted, chestnut trees, I mean, turkey's love ans. But you know, one of the things you notice when you're out there, you know, I've got already forty acres of food plots, and of them are in clover turkeys bug And I've got a lot of other acreage.
And you know that's not clover in fields that I will most strips in where a turkey can walk down the strip with her pots and bug but if danger is close, she can run right into the tall grass. You do a lot of things like that. One of the things I did I started years a few years ago, is I do a lot of hinge cutting. You hear people talk about hinge cutting. I try to do, uh, timber management where a lot of people don't do that.
You know, a lot of people go out and do food plots, they put feeders out there, but timber management is very important, you know. But give them that nest area where turkey can go into that tree top and nest and and hopefully you know, go unseen. And uh. The other thing I think, you know, I hear people talk about, you know, is if farm kimble cools, what's killing these turkeys? Why there's not as many? And and I'll still go back and people disagree, But I think
predator to control is the main thing. You know. I grew up coon hunting, and man, you could sell a coon pelt for twenty dollars, and kids like me, we're going out coon hunting and selling you know, coon pelts. And now they're not buying cones and in the palates and they're just everywhere. I mean I can put out a hundred cameras and they'll be twenty coons on almost
every camera. If I got food up, yeah, I think last year and we were there, uh you know, we've seen your one camera that we were watching for turkeys had coons that kept showing up and I think we we bumped some raccoons off of one of the feeders, and uh yeah, it seems like that's a big issue
back there, for sure, it is. And I think prect or control is something that I know, you know, from a duck standpoint, I know what Ducks and Lamon is really working on predt or control and no, n wtf is but I think that that's probably the number one reason you see a lot of decline and uh but you know from the food p tat, you know, I try to provide them a lot of acrons, which in Southeast Kansas I happened to been fortunate and bought some farms and had a lot of oak trees on it,
white white oak. And in Red ohk I try to do half of my food plots and clover. Again. I try to mow strips so they can hide, they can bug because you know, you go up there in the summertime in June and July and and and there's as long as you've got the grass motors grasshoppers everywhere, it's fun to watch those little posts just get out and start chasing them around. And uh so, you know, I just try to provide them all the food and cover and I can provide them. Yeah, I got you, and
I'm gonna do my best, uh my best. Barbara Ross to kind of verbally describe your property, Randy, and some of the stuff you mentioned. You know, you don't see big large tracts of anything on your property, like to me being a being a guy from out you know on the Pacific coast where you know, we've got industrial timberlands were growing, you know, forty to fifty year old Douglas fur and lock forest. You kind of get the same thing over and over until you down the river bottoms.
But when you go to your place in Kansas. What I loved about it is it it doesn't seem to be you know, a hundred acres of clover. You know, your clover and your your cut corn, and you know where you you kind of mixed clover in with like a planted um you know, alfalfa hay field. Everything was broken up in a way where those turkeys felt comfortable. You know, you might have a hundred hundred foot two hundred yard wide strip, but then they've got hardwoods right
next to it. And then like where I killed my turkey and you left a standing cut corn field, which it wasn't very big. It was only what three or four acres, and then it was surrounded by a hedgerow and hardwoods, and then you go to the corner of it, and then you enter into like a two acre clover field.
And it was just kind of cool to see. How you know, where people out west, if there's age, it's it's like forever where you're looking, it seems like with your your food plots um and the way that you're harvesting. You know, you know some of the crops that it really is. You know, it's not it's not just wide open. It's strategically placed. Um. The birds and the deer have a ton of security um, which kind of is going to get into our next question. Randy is like, what's
the most important? Is it the food? Is it the roost? Is it the security and nesting? You know, what is that in moments before I killed my bird on your place last year. Um, we were walking down one year old farm roads and we kind of spotted a hen up ahead, maybe a couple hundred yards, and we were kind of watching her and not wanting to really spook birds in case something else was with her. And we walked up there, gave her enough time, and she just
kind of disappeared. Um. And and I don't know whether you designed this into your property or not, but that you had kind of a pile of of logs there that were kind of leftovers, and we had all kind of confirm we thought that that hen was nesting inside that pile of logs. So whether you design that or not, like your your property so broken up, and so you know unique that it's it's opportunities like that where that hen picked that pile of logs and nest. Like what
is the most important there? And is it? Is it food? Is it roost? Or is there is there not one that's most important? Is it? In your opinion? Like they're all equals. I think it's a combination, you know. I try to provide them all of that and even the you know, the food, the cover turkey has gotta have cover. I mean, you think about a turkey, Everything out there is trying to hunt it. I mean, coons and postums
are eating their nest, Skunks are eating their nests. You've got hawks and birds, you know, killing them when they're small, killing them when they're big. I mean, hoot owls are trying to kill them. They have got to have somewhere to nest. And so I try to make that when I do hinge cutting, do a lot of around the edges in my food plots, just like that pile. You know that was just some logs there, an old tree that I piled up. Or a hen can run away.
She's out there with her pots and they're out there in that little clover field around those trees, and you know, a hawk is flying over. She can run them right into that tree log And uh so I tried. I think it's a combination of all. It's hard to just pick one, you know. I believe you can have all the cover you can, but if you don't have any food for them, you know, it's it's just as detrimental
for them. So I think it's a little bit of combination of all of them, for sure, for sure, And Randy, can you explain hinge cutting for all of our listeners that might not know what that is. You know, hinge cutting is is I go out in a piece of ground and and I try not to really do you know, twenty or thirty acres of it. I'll do a few acres here and there. I go out and you see a lot of old trees that are about as big as my leg or you know, just not huge trees.
But there may be hickory nut trees, or they may be some tree that's not producing. Basically, I always say, if it's not producing an acren, I'm gonna hinge cut it. I'm gonna cut it about belt high. Instead of cutting it all the way through. When it starts to tip over, I just push it on over so it's still it's it's actually still growing for a few years. Uh, And it's laying on the ground and a lot of deer
turkeys can nest in it. And for several years, even though that tree is laying down, Uh, you know, ben over as I say, it's still growing its leaves every year and turkeys can get in their dear love to eat on it. Dear love to always say, like a cedar tree. I don't Hinge cut sedars. I only do you know the what I call the ugly tree. But uh, they like to get in there and put their back up against it. You know they can. Uh. I killed this year. We're talking about turkeys, but I killed a
hundred seventi five inch buck this year. And I had Hinge cut a piece of property last year of about five acres and he walked right out of it right to me, you know, And that thrilled me to know he was bedded up in that that you know, thicket
got you. Yeah, And I remember we walked down off of that one really heavy oak ridge and we walked down across I. I don't I don't want to misquote you, but I think you said, like every every oak tree that was bigger than a certain like eighteen inches breast height, you were taking them down because they were no longer producing. And that bottom is that? So I remember that correct,
that you were. You were taking down some of those medium sized oaks throughout that that bottom, well, the larger ones. I had a timber guy come in and again I try to do all the timber management I can if they're really twenty five inches and again some people will say they gotta be a little bigger. If they're twenty five inches are bigger, I let him cut them. And and uh, I use a guy that is he's a hunter, he's a timber guy. He understands him. He'll come and
mark them. And when he marks him, he and I walked through there and make sure I agree with the ones he marks. And but he's cutting the really big trees. And you know, it's a it's always amazing how much better my hunting's got over the several years as I'm doing timber management. When I cut that big tree out of there, there's three or four smaller trees that are that are around it that all of a sudden really starts producing good acrens. You know, that ten twelve fifteen
inch tree starts producing. So you know, it's like I said earlier, timber management is something I think a lot of people miss out on that I think really has
improved my wildlife. Got you perfect perfect. So now that we kind of have talked a little bit, you know that food roost, you know, security nesting, you know, everything that you're providing on your property is there um as far as food um let's let's just put you in a scenario like we're gonna let go a band of wild turkeys and they can go veer off a little bit to the left and go get in the clover field. Or they can go straight ahead and get into like a chief of field. Um, they can go to the
right and getting like an alf alfa field. Um. In your opinion, like, what is the best food source? I know you've already touched on clover a little bit and you know the bugging and then um, you know, using the clover for food. But is have you found that you know, turkeys prefer certain foods at certain times of the year or is it really just hit and missed for the area and they can be found in all of them. Well, I think it depends on where they are,
you know, where they're located. I grew up hunting Missouri, you know, as a college kid, and and chase them all over public ground and Mark Twain and they had a lot of acorn flats, you know, white white oak and red oak flats. And you take my farm. You know, we killed we killed that bird of chris and dirks that you know they doubled on the clover field. You know,
we come over the hill. I could see him way down there with the binoculars, and I told you, these birds are coming to this clover And what was cool about that video where those hens were just out there are those gobblers just bugging everywhere. The hens were bugging
and the gobblers were just strutting with him. And uh but there's a lot of time, like you killed Jrors ten o'clock in the morning, and when he first gobbled, he was in the cloverfield, so he had been out there bugging ten o'clock in the morning and when he heard us call, and Chris Parrish I think was calling at the time. And you know, most turkeys are probably gonna come to Chris when he's calling, but being a world champion, uh, you know, he come across that cornfield
and and right to you. But uh yeah, I think depends on where the location is. You know, if a turkey is in a wooded area, are grown up cattle fields because they love to bug, you know, and cattle and chase grasshoppers and and they may not even have any clover. Uh. So it all depends where that turkey is located. And I've hunted several states where I hunt Texas. I mean, you can't find a clover within twenty miles where I'm hunting, So I'm hunting cattle pastures with grasshoppers,
you know. So it's just difference of where you're hunting. Yeah. Yeah, well we hunt here in northeast Washington, you know, very very little agg you know, just along kind of the county roads, and then you kind of shoot up into the mountains where it's you know, Ponderosa pine and just kind of your native grasses and stuff, and you know, trying to figure out where those birds want to be and that stuff is sometimes difficult because it looks, you know the same for miles and miles and miles um.
But you eventually figure out, you know, draws and ridge tops and and some of that stuff, you know, where they prefer to be, even though there's a vast um, you know, never ending supply of of native grasses and and you know, pine trees and whatnot. So yeah, same thing.
You've got to just kind of adapt to the area. Um, even though I do kind of always like being close to somewhat you know, some part of agg um seems to be and make those turkeys a little more predictable, but um you know, you just got to kind of adapt to to those um So, one thing I want to touch on, you know, the the intent of this podcast is to hopefully help you know, the listeners be more successful, is how do you use the habitat to
hunt the turkeys? As far as we've went over, like everything that turkey wants for food and security and roost trees and you know how they can set up their own daily routine, you know, based on the habitat. But how do you use that to to give you an advantage Randy as you kind of put the day's plan together or you know that hunt plan together, you know, in in the mornings, Jason, I'm I'm going to go, you know where I hunt normally, even when I hunt Missouri or a hunt ends is hunt Texas. I know
where a lot of the turkey's gonna roost. I'm gonna try to find them on the roost and and go there and get as close as I can in that morning. And most of the time, you know, they're they're in the woods a lot of times on the creek bottom, and they're gonna come down to you know, in those woods somewhere in the middle of the day. A lot of times I'm gonna go to specific clover field or cornfield.
The other day you killed your bird, we were headed trially really to the clover field and and the cornfield you know, still had had corn in it, you know, standing corn and things. So we set up there because it had been raining, if you remember that day. And and uh, I like to hunt till about noon. Truthfully, over older, I get I try not to hunt in the afternoons. I try not to hunt roost sites in the afternoon. I want to give them a break. And that's kind of when we go crappie fishing, but in
the afternoons. But uh, yeah, I will try to hunt off the roost in the mornings. And once you know, if the turk he's in the first second week in April and Kansas, they'll stay in the woods for a while. So I enjoy getting into timber and hunting them. In the middle of the day. I'll go to the food plots. I'll go to that clover field because I think those hens are coming to buck and you know, so I I kind of know I've hunted there over twenty years. I kind of know where to go up there where
they're gonna be. Yeah. And one thing that I liked on your places that we kind of hung around that same area and we did a lot of calling. You know, Chris did a lot of calling early in that morning and and things weren't working. We got close a couple of times, and those hens kind of did the same routine. Um, when Chris and Dirk were able to kill their birds, they kind of pulled those toms right pastes. They didn't
really care. But you know, one thing is as I get older, I'm convinced and talking with you know, some Turkey experts like Mike Chamberlain as those those toms you know, later in that season, they know that you were around that area, and once their hens go to lay, they
may come back looking for you. And so like you said, you know, calling in that area and then staying there, you know throughout the late morning, UM could definitely beat to the hunter's benefit, you know, not to leave the area and go find new birds, but kind of continue that play that you played on the morning, UM and get them to come back and see if you're still around.
I totally agree. I mean, you know, I like to a lot of times even you know if if I know the birds are really hand up, you know, we'll go eat breakfast, be gone about an hour, hour and a half and give them time to do their thing, get them bread and hopefully the hands will leave them, you know, and later this season it's a little easier to do. You go back to the same exact same spot, and the turkeys were gobbling. I couldn't tell you how
many times I had a buddy. A couple of years ago, we were down in Kansas about the same spot Dirks and Chris Hauld killed their birds. We were down the ridge a little ways and uh we had five long beards with about fifteen hens hu hung up in the woods and they gobbled probably to eight thirty never moved. Jason, we went back to the house e breakfast, got back about Levin called eleven o'clock. I called. They were in the same spot. You know, it's amazing turkeys don't move
a lot. They can be in the same spot for hours and you think they're gone, and two hours later they're still on the same ridge. Yea. You know. So the key is you just gotta stay after him, you know, you gotta get after him. And when I'm going to make a mistake. Yeah, that day, I think we started we touched everywhere those turkeys were, and then when we came back it I believe we showed up at what two o'clock, those turkeys were right back in the same spot.
They had never left there. They just walked a circle around us all day. Um. Yeah, so that was that was pretty cool. And uh so on that day, I want to ask you specifically about that situation, Randy, and whether we know the answer or not, we'll take our best stab at it, you know, so we should you know later And well, I guess it was what was at May seventh and eighth? We were there, um a little bit later and you know, in the season, and those those hens were still what the birds out till
one and two o'clock. Do you feel that those hens had already went to nest and then came back or were they just uh not being bred yet? Like what was the reason those hens were hanging onto those toms so long? Um that day? You know, one, we have a lot of hens down there, so you know that morning they may have bred several of them and several of them went to roost and and several of them, uh,
May have not have been bred yet. So you know when if you remember when we were down there, you could hear hens all in the woods and uh, those two turkeys, you know, they we had four or five hens just struck, you know, walked right by us bugging and um, so I would think probably several of the hens they had bread had gone to nest. I mean made the seventh in Kansas. I mean a lot of hens are sitting on nests, and but there's so many hens in there, I would imagine they were still with them.
And you know, early Jason, I've seen, uh, I've seen turkeys up there with several hens sit under a couple of trees out in an open field. They'll be there for hours and never so I think, you know, depending on what the time of the year is, those gobblers aren't leaving leaving those hens very often. Now you're going back up there May or twenty nine, you know, those those hens would have definitely left those gobblers and go and sit on the net more than likely. You have
my favorite time here in Washington to hunt. Um. You know, you would always get all amped up for opening day April fifteen. You wanted to be in the woods and then you realize one, everybody else is, you know, just as excited for opening day. So the woods, uh, you know, are just a mess with people everywhere. Number two, you would find a gobbler and he wouldn't leave those hens or nothing. And so we kind of just developed that plan.
Like we found out the best time for us to hunt was early May here, um, just because the crowds. But then almost you know, we always picked that first weekend in May, which was typically you know, somewhere between you know, first or the seventh, whatever that is, and and almost always by I would say tenor at eleven o'clock, we would almost have you know, hand free gobblers. They would they would go off to lay, and then we
would have him all to ourselves. You know. There were a few times, and I don't know if that's because we're you know, but it would it would seem to be opposite, like further north, we're a little bit later than you guys. But um, I was just a little surprised to see those two hens kind of you know, our three hens kind of leading the show there in the in the mid afternoon, and then those gobblers were not going to leave them either. Watching them strut all
the way. You know, they came to link to that big road. They're all the way down in that clover field, and we set up on the south end of it, and they came strutted all the way down to I know. Yeah, it on video and it's pretty cool to watch. Yeah, it was a really cool you know, just to watch them come through that clover and just kind of you know, spitting drummond and just puffed up the whole way. Was
was pretty cool to watch. And then Chris and Dirk made great shots and doubled up there and uh yeah, a great hunt. So we touched on a little bit. Um, I'm gonna dive a little bit deeper into predators because I know, you know, talking with you before the show, Um, we feel that that may be the biggest issue currently. Um. You know that that's that's given just these wild turkeys a fit right now. Um, you know, everything from the cons the possums, the everything that we've have here. You
know what's the solution. Is it just the landowners or the hunters themselves. You know, the same reason we hunt coyotes out here because they wreak havoc on you know, the the young fawns and calves. I mean, are we just gonna have to to take it into our own hands? Is that the solution is to just take care of these predators, regardless of you know, the pelts being worth anything or you know, apossum is never gonna be worth a dang thing. Um Like, what's the solution to take
can care of this randy? Is it? Is it people just you know, doing it because it's the right thing to do for the wild turkey? Um? Or is there anything else we can do to to help fend off these predators? Well, you know, I think and it there's two parts of that. You know, in a way, there's private landowners, and I think a lot of private landowners can do more trapping. And and I know in Kansas, in the area I'm in up there this weekend, they're
having a cow competition. Whoever kills the most colts and brings them in, you know, wins a prize because cowls are rough on turkeys too. And and and I've never seen anything kill a turkey as fast as a bobcat can.
And uh and I say, so, I think you've got the private landowner that I think just has to be more aggressive in their trapping, but on public ground, I think that the Game and Fish, you know, commissions of these states have to to back up and look at some programs they have and what can they do to really urge people to do more trapping, more coon hunting,
more things like that. And and uh, you know Arkansas has a bad problem with hogs, and and I know our Game and Fish is really spending a lot of time and effort trying to figure out how are we going to control those And but it's the same thing when it comes to the coons and and couts and bobcats and everything. I mean, they're those predators are tough
on turkeys. So I mean, as a private landowner that grew up hunting public ground, which I still enjoy doing, I think I think it's going to take two sides, I mean, the private landowner and the Game and Fish
commissions to to get serious about this predator control. All right, Randy, now that we've kind of hit on, you know, the private habitat and what turkeys prefer, if you can create kind of the ideal situation which you have there on your place, Um, you know, growing up you've hunted a lot of public kind of where the majority of us out west get to do our turkey hunting. What would you say is the most important? Um? You know, we can still use habitat to our advantage on the public ground.
Like what do you look for when you're you know, either EA scouting or boots on the ground, Like are you looking for some of the same stuff like a feed area versus where they're going to come out of the roost versus you know, where they want to spend their day, you know, scratching and bugging. Like, explain to me a little bit about your public land approach, but still using habitat um to help you out. You know,
that's a good question. I still hunt some public ground I grew up and, like said earlier, in college hunting Mark Twain National Forest up in Missouri, which I still, you know, think is some great hunting. You can find a lot of birds on some of that public ground. And and I think there's so many people I've been blessed, And she said earlier, I joke with people that I only work to pay for my hunting hobby, you know, but I've been blessed there. So I do have my
own own property. But you know, growing up hunting public ground. There's a lot of people that still hunt in public ground. And and I I elk hunt on public ground a lot lot of times, and and I use you know, you can go out there and get the ONYX Hunt map and a lot of these maps. And so when I'm going on public ground, I'm using these maps to figure out where these ridges are, you know, uh, where the creeks are lie within in that area I'm hunting. And and so Mark Twain, I'll use them ill brag
on Missouri. I'm not from Missouri. I'm from Arkansas, but I've hunted up there for years. And I think their Game and Fish did a really good job with their public grounds on their Mark Twain National Forest. And and I know in Arkansas we have a lot of public ground and in a lot of states, and I think that's so important that public ground is provided to you know,
residents of that state to come and hunt. And uh so I used to live I lived pretty close to the Missouri line in Arkansas when I grew up, so we could get up there in about an hour. And you know, back then in those days, we didn't have that on X maps. I mean, we had paper maps and we lay it down and figure out, Okay, I'm going over here on this ridge and you go over on that ridge. And I think that's the key because a lot of those public grounds you're hunting acorn flats
and uh. And once you get in there and you find where them turkeys are, they're gonna be in there most of the time if you're hunting a ridge like that. But you know a lot of the game and fishing estates, And I think that's always been good on in in Missouri and Arkansas and Kansas, there's a lot of control burning and that control burning. It's amazing how fast turkeys come in there after after woods are burned, our grasses are burned, and and so I know in Kansas we
do a lot of control burning. We we burn a lot of our properties up there, and I think that really does help with a lot of the the turkey population. But yeah, when I'm hunting public ground, I'm normally using a map trying to figure out, okay, uh, where do I need to go in here? And and probably nothing better Jason and calling a buddy or someone at hunted that area and say hey, I'm up here for a few days, you know, send me to the right spot. Yeah. Yeah,
I've always told people hunters get along with hunters. There's not a lot of jealousy there. You know, I want you to kill a turkey as bad as I want to kill a turkey. A lot of times I want my grandson. I want my grandson to kill a turkey more than I want to kill a turkey. Yeah. So yeah, I think you guys out in the Midwest might be better guys than us out West, because I think it's
the opposite. Like people out here wanna, you know, they wanna, they want to do everything themselves, don't want to share. It doesn't seem as much, but I know that's that's good on you that you know, everybody's trying to help each other back there, and uh um, that's pretty cool because you know, that's that's what I love about turkey hunting, as well as just you know, being able to go out with some good buddies, you know, hang out. It seems to be a little bit more relaxed than big
game hunting, but it's it's still hunting. It's still a great chess match with a you know, a worthy opponent. You know, it was doing wild turkeys, they get a bad rap on, you know, being a dumb bird, or why can't you guys kill one? They're standing all over the the you know, the edge of the road or the fence line, and I'm like, these turkeys might be the dumbest bird until you put a shotgun in your hand,
and then they become like the smartest bird. You know, they instantly change at the point where you're trying to kill one. Well, I got some friends in Arkansas that go up to Kansas, not far from me, to hunt on public ground, and Jason, they killed birds every year. I mean, these are good hunters, you know, give them credit,
but they're hunting public ground there. They don't have private ground, and so there's a lot of I love reading magazines when it talks about a state just you know, bought and put four thousand acres of public ground in you know, for hunters. I mean that that's exciting and I hope the states keep doing that because that so many people have to hunt there. And and again, when I grew up hunting, that's all we had to hunt. We we
couldn't we didn't own private land, you know. Yeah, And that's that's a good segue into my next USh and um out west. You know, we're hunting the majority of a public ground. You know, if you're lucky enough, you might be able to to get you know, onto a piece of property for maybe a youth season, or if you know a family friend, you might have a little
piece of of private you can get on. But the majority of the time we're we're running and gunning on um you know, public ground, big vast chunks of property with turkeys that aren't you know, they're they're three four miles in on a road, which is is great. But one question I've always had and I haven't really figured it out yet, but you know, on on big wide open country, um, you know, the turkeys need to go
grab water if the area isn't holding small pockets of water. Um. Our turkeys here seemed to travel a long ways to go get you know, to a puddler, to a small creek, um and get their daily water. Like, what have you found?
Have you have you had a chance to hunt out and more of that open country, you know, drier country where these birds are having to go, you know, a fairly long distance from roost to to food the water and how does that kind of a your hunt is These turkeys aren't just sitting in one spot like they were on your property. They're moving, you know, a mile a day or you know a mile and a half on their on their routine. You know, I've hunted out midway our father out like you're talking about up in
northern Nebraska. I would in in different places where you're hunting that Merryam turkey. And I assume you're hunting to Merriyam turkey where Yeah, yeah, we have Merriam's up up in the northeast corner where I'm hunting Eastern's here. But when I go out there to hunt Merriam's, I will say I work. I walk a lot more out there than I do in Kansas or Arkansas or Missouri. I do a lot of walking and a lot of calling and walking, and and those birds travel a lot more
than the eastern turkey does. And uh, but you know it's the same way when I go out there and i'm hunting, I'm looking at a map trying to figure out where the creeks are, where the water is, you know, where where would they be? Is there a cornfield, is there a farmer it's got a close overfield or our fal filfield. I'm using that map to find those turkeys. And but you're you're right, you know you got to I hunt Rio's in Texas, South Texas. Every year I
hunt Rio's and they're a lot like a Merriam. I mean, I could cover teen eleven miles a day. You know, we my buddy is and I we're watching, tell us how far we've gone. We may walk eleven miles and one day chasing Rio's. So you just gotta be ready to move depending on what type of bird you know you're hunting. So you've had the same experience where you're hunting those Merriams or Rio's um that we have in the northeast corner, you lace your boots up a little
tighter that morning than you know. The Easterns that I grew up with right here around my home. You know, they didn't leave you. They had their one little feed spot, they get their water right next to them, and they might not leave that quarter mile circle, you know, for a month. Um. They're just those Easterns here are locked
down pretty tight. I learned a hard lesson when I said the first time I was fortunate to go up in northern Nebraska, to hunt Mariam's and uh, I you know, I've grew up hunting Eastern turkeys, so I wouldn't used to do it all that walking. I learned pretty quick. You better pack some water when you're out hunting, Meriam. Yep, ye a lot more. Do you think you're gonna need because you may be five miles from the truck before
you realize it. Yep, yep. Well we we kind of covered all the questions I had on habitat, But I have a couple of another question for you, and I'll see what answer you give me here. But Randy, if you could give you know, one or two pieces of advice to struggling turkey hunters or maybe people that aren't finding success out there, um to make them more successful?
What would it be just kind of you know, anything from you know, calling the setups to scouting, you know, any of that, Like, give give us kind of your best one or two tips to make you successful. Well, if I was gonna give two tips, one of them would be scouting. I mean, you've got to scout to air your end, you know. And if you're hunting public ground, you know you're going to be facing competition. There's gonna be other hunters there, so you gotta get out and scout.
And the other other tip I think would is very important. Um, you know there's you take us. You know, we got to know each other and friends with Chris Parish and a lot of people like that. There's so many chat rooms on there that talks about turkeys, where to go, you know, you can get on them all day long, and and there's so many hunters get along with hunters,
and they're willing to share. And maybe not up north where you are, but most of the time down in the Midwest and places you know they're they're willing to share. And and I I've had a buddy here in Arkansas that has killed a bird in every state that has a turkey, and he and I have visited about how did you do that? And so much of it was just getting on a site and saying, hey, I'm coming to Nevada. You know where would I go? I'm trying
to kill a bird in every state? And and he was helped so much by people, you know, just other hunters and said, hey, man, you know, come here. I think you can get on this public ground and and go to this certain area and there should be a turkey in there. So yeah, a lot of a lot of people aren't fortunate to have their own public ground where you walk out there. And and believe me, it
didn't come easy for me. I was fortunate and and worked hard and and uh and and if if I didn't happen to have a farm in Kansas, I'd still be hunting public ground today in Arkansas. Wouldn't bother me a bit, you know, because I'm going to hunt, uh and uh. But I think those are the two things. I mean, get out and know other people. Yeah, yeah, and we you know, I'm gonna add onto the scouting. I grew up what I I feel is maybe the
hardest turkey in the world to kill. Where these Eastern that they planted here in western Washington um very very low numbers, and that was the battle. Like you couldn't kill one if you didn't find it. So we would spend literally, you know, the entire month of March out locating every morning on the weekends just trying to have a bird, maybe two if you got really lucky to hunt. But and without that scouting, you would have just been,
you know, dead in the water come season. So you know, figuring out where that bird or birds like to roost, you know, kind of where his um you know, a few spots are he would move a little bit, but kind of his core area. And then just kind of pounding that when season came was really your best you know, bet because if you didn't, like I said, locate that bird prior to season, um, you were scouting the entire
season and not really hunting. Yeah, And you make a good point on the scouting part, because you know, even where I hunt, where there's a lot of turkeys is amazing. I think of a couple of times in the last few years where we'll get up there a couple of days before Sasan starts and go out there one morning and they'll be pretty blue bird day and cold in in early April, and in one area, Jason, you know,
one morning we might hear twenty to twenty five turkeys. Guy, boy, it sounds like in the very next morning, go out there and you don't hear a sound. And you know, I swear those turkeys are living in caves. I mean there's you know, how in the world can you hear twenty sitting right here in tomorrow? I didn't hear one, you know, so I try to scout several places because I can tell you I'm one of those running gunners.
If I get out there and a bird doesn't gobble early in the morning, I'm jumping in the truck going to another spot. I'm trying to find that turkey. You know. Yeah, there's a bird out there somewhere, gobbling his head off somewhere where. So uh yeah, we did the same thing here in eastern Washington. We'd have a few little pieces of private we could hunt, but we would save it, you know for a day or a slow day, like, oh, public is on fire, we don't need to mess with
our private birds. And we did a lot of um, you know, night roosting where we would drive around on the roads as it got dark, you know, let our predator calls out, you know, do a bunch of you know, peacocks whatever, and locating these ding Miriam's. They moved so much on their own, you knew they weren't really getting bumped, but they would be you know, a ridge or two over and you couldn't hear them, or they just decided to roost in a different spot that night. Um. So
for us kind of piggyback and on scouting. Um, we did a lot of night locating after our night hunt, and and then just went and made sure we had two or three you know, fresh birds to start on in the morning. And then you know, climbed in close and sat up under that tree, and that just ensured that we always have something to go on in the morning. You're gonna have You're gonna have some live birds, you know, somewhere around you versus you know, start in the morning
running and gunning. Um, you know, at least at least gets you a little bit ahead. Yeah, we do. We do a lot of scouting, even even on land. We're from marry With, We're gonna Part of it is we just want to be outside. I mean, we really enjoy you know, this is what we live for, you know, and so we're gonna be out there scouting no matter what. Yeah. Well, uh, I really appreciate you taking the time from your busy day. It's about tax time, so I'm sure you're just getting
about overwhelmed with everything coming in. So I really appreciate you taking time out of your day Randy and talking turkey and turkey habitat with us, and uh, I can't wait for a couple more months for me to get to you know, join up with you there in Kansas and see if we can't do it again. Well, I'm looking forward to it too, and I know and April there, you guys will be down there and we'll have a good time. So I'll make sure we save a few
for you guys. All right, perfect, I appreciate it. Randy, I don't know if I can get my boy. He's he's got this weird phobia of ticks, so I don't know if I can get him out there for the Kansas opener. I might try to get him through that, get him through that here in Washington and see if he can, you know, get through it, and then we'll maybe planning for Kansas in the future. On a on a youth, Hod, I'll tell you you just said, I
sent you a whole box of spray. Make sure you put it on his clothes, not on his skin, and he won't have any he won't have any problem with this. You need to bring your son out to you season. It would be a lot of fun. I mean, well, if we uh, you know, even get him in a in a blind or something on a on a clover field to just watch Strutter's come across here. He would have a good time. Yeah, I'd love for you to
bring him out. Nobody understands like the severity of this, like tick phobia he has though, Um so I just I figured, like him freaking out in the Washington is a lot less um of an issue than him freaking out in Kansas and the Well, this one we could do, like said, put him into players. We'll drive him right to the blind can probably in and get right back into players. Perfect. Perfect Yeah, um, all right, well thanks Lorandy, take care and we'll see you in a couple of months.
All right, sounds good.