Ep. 36: Calling and Killing Turkeys with Tony Peterson

twenties after becoming the associate editor for Peterson's Bonehunting magazine. Later, he earned the role of equipment editor for Bonhuert Magazine and Bowhunter TV. In more recent years, Tony joined up with me Eater to produce content including articles and podcasts under the Wired to Hunt brand, as well as shows like Back forty and One Week in November. Listeners will likely know of Tony if they are into white to hunting. Public land is He was one of the pioneers that

thrived at killing big bucks on public ground. He has aired a pilot Good Bucks on Public Ground in multiple states and is considered one of the nation's top authorities on hunting pressured gear. But that's not why we have him here today. He also happens to be one hell of a turkey hunter with countless shotgun and boat tip turkeys do his credit. He's a wealth of knowledge on calling long beards, especially long beards that have received a lot of hunting pressure, which is what we're going to

get into today. Welcome to the show, Tony.

checking out new spots and turkey seasons. So good for you know, kind of taking a flyer weekend and going somewhere because you never know you might find something worth going to deer hunt.

now I really like it. But uh yeah, now I'm excited for spring. Got Kansas, I've got Washington and then Idaho.

in the woods. Yeah, how do you define a roost tree or what makes an ideal group of roost trees?

to death up there. They don't need as much protection, and so they'll spread out. But you know, I mean always it's droppings, it's scouting is huge, you know, looking

for those those spots. And then you know, I always tell people one thing you notice especially and you know, maybe like the first half of your season, you know, if you have a roost, even if it gets blown out, what you'll see those birds do, especially when they're flocked up, is if you have nasty weather come in, like we get a lot of fronts in the spring in different places, those birds are going to roost somewhere where there's a there's a real advantage to getting out of the wind.

And so you think, you know, you get a crazy east wind or something and you're like, oh, they're going to be roosted where they're always roosted. And then you go there and that wind's blowing that up. They're gonna be somewhere else and you can almost call your shots. You can pull up on X and look at it and go, Okay, they could tuck in here and be out of that wind all night long.

And you go to the Midwest and if you're hunting Easterns, they seem to want to come back to a set group of trees as long as it checks all the box, you know, out of the wind. A lot of times those roost trees are just off of a ridge line. They can walk up the ridge, lion or walk and then they can pitch down into the tree without having to do a bunch of like laborersts flying up and just being off of that ridge, as you had mentioned, keeps them out of the wind. So big heavy limbs,

they don't like to be shook around. So it's like, you know, it's I guess we're talking about what they typically like to be. And they can roost anywhere, right, but but typically like to be in those bigger trees, bigger you know, oak trees, big limbs, and not getting shook around here as much. And then when I go to hunt Mariam's round home, those things literally just roost

where they end up. But similar you know, they're they're staying out of the wind, but they they they're they're not as likely to come back to that tree night after night after night.

them in the evening approach it, it's so valuable. See how see how they actually work their way in and then you know, okay, if I if I get in there where I would want to set up, they're gonna see me because they're going to have a visual advantage a lot of times. So being able to watch turkey is so huge.

take it with a grain of salt. But in your opinion kind of what's the best time to be out there if you had to pick, like a one week.

split up. You know, those hens are going to go start eating bugs and some fresh greenery, and those times are going to follow them, and then if you can time it, you know, for years in Minnesota, one of my favorite times the hunt was when the walleye opener happened. Nobody wanted to you know what I mean. And you

see that in other states. So there's it's kind of Turkey season a lot of times sort of follows the deer season, like at least the bow season pattern where there's a bunch of activity right away and then it kind of dies down and then as the clock starts to and toward the end, you'll see people start to get back out, and so there's there's usually a middle.

up phase where everything's locked down. Sometimes they won't gobble, they won't they just they will not come to a call and you so you're kind of fighting that I've always liked in Washington, Like May tenth, it's getting pretty late in the season, but we're starting to get the majority of our hens bread and on eggs all day and away from him and so, and that's to be honest, no matter what, you know, if you want to kill the three or four year old birds, like I've always

felt like mid May for us in Washington and some of your best timing, it's just those birds are lonely after nine o'clock and you know you got them all to yourself.

like you said, no pressure early for sure. You know, we just completed our Washington youth season and guys were just moping, you know, they were. It was just great. These birds haven't heard calls yet. They're super callable. And then you know it's gonna progressively get slower a season.

a lot of places. And turkeys are so patternable. I mean they it feels like it gets wild, kind of like the white tail rut, Like you're like, oh, they're just all over the count. No, there's a method to their madness. And Tom's are super predictable and so we're hens. And so if you've got a place where they're scratching, you know, if if they were there today at ten o'clock, they're gonna be there.

scouted those roofs like we talked about. Now you're like, okay, I've got places to be, and then you just got to give them time.

whole call scenario to us. Let's just go and it's way more effective. And I'm saying, this is a guy that loves to call turkeys and makes a living, you know, sell them calls for turkeys, but patterning, you know, it's it's almost like the ambush style and elk cunning. I'll all always say that you're going to be way more successful in calling that bowling if he's already doing what he wants to do and only has to come a little bit, versus like make them do what they don't want to do.

like just having that circular conversation. There's only so many things you can talk about tricky hunting, So we're gonna jump into maybe some of the oddities or some stuff we haven't talked about on some of the past Tricky episodes. So one thing we just kind of mentioned some of the things that takes me till day two or three

to figure out. But every spring you go out and you start to you know, you hear your first gobble and you're like, shoot, you know, whether you're in eastern Washington, where you're in Kansas, how far away was that thing?

And so I'm always like, you know, I know everybody wants to sprint across the countryside and get seventy five yards away and set up, but I always just assume they're closer, and I always assume that if I go sneaking in on this bird, unless I've got like an obvious like if there's a bluff or something and he's on top, like they're gonna see me better than I think,

And even with the woods greened down and everything. So I'm I'm pretty cautious that way, and i'd rather especially, you know, if they're sounding off and you can throw an owl food at him or something, it's like you don't have any reason to go rush, and like work it out a little bit, and you almost can guarantee that if there's a bird goblin at you there, he's probably not alone. I mean, you might have run into that two year old it's or what like they might

be alone, but a lot of times they're not. And so you're now you're working in on not just.

I thought he was. But it's literally, you know, maybe a three x magnitude and difference on what I thought that distance was. Just if he turns and gobbles the other way versus gobbles towards me. So I've already got that against me. Now we've got if he did that same thing and the wind was at his back versus in his face. You know, what's the wind doing where

I'm at? You've got fooliage. You know, early in the spring gobbles are going to travel a little bit farther is it starts to really green up and get thick. And now, you know, so all these things play into But I think you hit the nail on the head earlier with your comment of you just always play it a little more cautious. There's if he's gobbling, he's obviously still there, and as long as he's still there, you

have a chance. Versus if you go and bump him and spook him, you're now dealing with a you know, a buggered up bird, real hard to deal with at that point, once him or his hens get you know, spooked, it's it's gonna be tough.

or suddenly they just come in. And so if you've got one and you're like, oh, he sounds like he's two hundred two hundred fifty yards away, I'm like, man, if he's calling to me, unless I have a real terrain advantage to get closer, I'm like, I'm just gonna work him until he makes the decision.

And so if you can work two calls at one time, you know, and make it sound like two hens meeting up and cutting hard, and or just give them something different, sometimes that's all you need to break them to you. But just going to them is so often that does not go well.

how does water affect your turkey hunt? It's it's different than an elk and a wallow or you know elk that need to go to water every day. Turkeys can get it in different places. But they also will use, you know, water for different reasons, for feed, for green up. What do you how do you think about water in relation to spring turkey hunting?

B and scratching or whatever, they're gonna avoid water. And so I've I spend a lot of time setting up blind, especially for my daughters, where I'm like, there's a swamp here and there's a cattail slew there and this is the high ground. I mean, kind of like you do a deer and you know, they don't always do it. Sometimes they'll fly across, but if they can walk, they can. And so I mean water is a factor in a

lot of stuff. And then I mean, I've seen this too, and I don't really know what's going on, but it's almost like there's a little micro climate around that water first, you know, so when you don't have anything else green in the woods, sometimes you can go and see turkey scratching up on the edges of water. It's like they're they're finding something there that they're keying on. And so there's a you know, you might look at it and go, well,

they're just walking around this edge. They're not if you watch them or you you know, you might think, oh, they're going down there to drink when they got water everywhere, and so there's there's things like that.

you know, better bugging area from the feed. But yeah, so you're basically saying you can treat that water as almost not necessarily a funnel, but it almost condenses them to like a more narrow path, Like their routine is gonna be a tighter path because they're not gonna want to be in the swamp. They're not gonna want to be next to the water. I'm sure you're gonna kind of choke them down to some of these areas so they can maintain the high ground.

those turkeys work in those swamp edges. I'm like, are they they you know they'd grab a frog? Yeah, I mean you know they would. And I'm like, are they keen? This probably sounds so stupid, but I'm like, there's something there. You know, it doesn't really look like they're catching something, but if it was cold enough, it probably wouldn't be that, you know, probably wouldn't look that crazy.

almost lose your advantage. You know, the advantage you had of necking them down or funneling them is because now they've got you know, basically more real estate that they they're not afraid to walk through, or or that green up's changing, right, the green up used to be on the edge here will now the edge is receded back, you know, one hundred feet, hundred yards whatever it is, and so now they it's basically opened up their path. So early on you can take advantage of some of

those higher water levels and neck them down. So that's an interesting point there. So one thing that's really hard, and I've tried to rewind my brain when this question kind of came up, or I was putting it together for you. Is because once you kind of got your understanding of turkeys, you just kind of know what amount of sign is enough. But let's say you're a brand new hunter, your brand new turkey hunting. How do you know when you go to scout property if enough sign

is there? If that makes any sense, you know, like we've been there enough, we just like, oh there's enough scat, there's birds, goblin, whatever. But for a new hunter that maybe just doesn't have it figured out yet, you know, there might have been one bird on there a year ago, you know, and that's a sign that you see. What would you look at and when would you be comfortable enough that there's enough sign on this piece to hunt it?

alluded to this earlier. You know the good thing about spring in most places, you're gonna get some rain and you're gonna get a fresh you know, like a clean slate, and you know it might only you might only have to find a fresh set of tom track that you know was made this morning, and that's all you need to set up on that login road tomorrow, or you know, if you haven't had any rain for a while, it's a little drier, and now it's like, okay, I know the sign I'm looking at might be a couple of

days or a week old. Then you want as much as possible, and so I always try to. It's kind of like with white tails, like, oh, you know, you find a bunch of rubs, that's great, Like I want to see what's going on too, So that's like that's the starting point. So if you go out there and you're in that corner of the cut, you know, cornfield or whatever, and you see some you know tracks and some you know turkey droppings, you're like, okay, this it

seems like there's a concentration here. If there's a way to back that up with observation, then you win because now you know and I mean, you know, the good thing about signing the turkeys laid down is you know they did it in the day, so at least you have that to work. But you know the other thing

to do. And I know people they don't think about this very often, but if you're working, if you're like on a small property like a lot of us in the Midwest and the East Star running trail cameras for turkeys is almost cheating, Like it's it's crazy ey, how dialed into those patterns you can get them and see

with a trail camera. So it's if you're like, if you're new to it and you're like, I don't know what these tracks mean, Like if you have a trail camera, maybe put it out, or it's better to go out and glass if you can, because you know, in person observation is way better. But there's ways to just kind of go, Okay, now I know what's going on here.

least where I'm at. You know, they've been gobling for the last well by time this airs, you know, two months, so you should really go proof it when those birds are there and as they start to break up, you know, into the end of March or middle of March, wherever you're at, just go proof that that ground is going

to hold turkeys during you know, the spring. And and the best way to do that is Tony mentioned, you know, put eyes on them, put eyes on the or just go locate on that, you know, go spend the morning there and you're gonna know, you know, probably by the middle of March, if if there's gonna be birds or not.

And you start to get you know, by nine ten o'clock in the morning when you're sitting out there and you see all those bugs kind of like when you're fly fishing, like you just know those birds are keying on that. And so you might have glassed a flock in the cornfield two weeks ago.

They're still on the upswing. But it seems like no matter how many birds we're in, every once in a while, every season, you just run into that brick wall. And then sometimes that brick wall of no gobbling will stay up for a day. Sometimes it'll last a couple of days. You know, it's a lot of times triggered by whether it could be triggered up by them just being a hind up. What's your strategy go to there where you

feel like I just seen a bird. I crow called out him, my alcohol at him, my turkey called out of my cut at him, and the thing doesn't answer, Like how do you get you know, how do you hunt with with purpose and with some confidence at that point? Because sometimes I just you know, I just get super frustrated, but I'm curious, you.

And when you spend time around turkeys, there's we're so keen in on the loud noises right, like the loud yelping sequence, the gobbles, of course, But when you when you call in birds, the hens, and they come in close, even Tom's there's a language that it almost doesn't stop. And if you don't hear them make it, you don't know how to like, you don't know how to work on that. So I'm always I don't when I'm out there,

I'm way too cocky. I'm like, there isn't a bird I can't call in, and there's lots of birds I can't call in, and trust me, I met them, But I always look at that and I go the bird, the bird that won't gobble at me. That's fine, Like you can still call in those quiet birds. And it's I always like just think of it, like there's something I got to figure out with my calling to win

that dude over. And the more this, I mean, this was really like the primary benefit I felt when I bow hunted him for so long was you call in so many hens into your decoys and you get them going, and you start going back and forth and they're preening in front of you and you you're getting an education in the sounds they make when they're interacting with other hens, and the sounds they make when there's a tom close. And it's just like you just have more tools in

the kit. And so I think, I think a lot of times we go out and we go, well, if I can't shot goblinm he's call shy or whatever, or if I throw him that that sequence of yelps and he you know, he looks but he doesn't hit me, then he's not workable. And I'm like, man, you got a lot more things you can do. And I think you know my thing, you know, you would think you hunt pressure birds, right, like you go down public land, and it's always like tied to subtlety, right like be quiet,

make soft yelps, scratch a little bit. I find going the other way helps me a lot. Like I think a lot of those birds are out there and they go, I've heard these hens yelp and you know, purr and cluck and do all the little quiet stuff. But when you start getting fired up, especially if you can run two calls or you have a buddy to go back and forth with, now there's something interesting for them. And I just think a lot of your competition on pressure

birds is going the other way. And they're like, I gotta they're not saying much, so I gotta be quiet, and man, I usually get real aggressive and at least then even if you don't call them in, they'll usually hit you or change their body language a little bit. And I think that's important. But it's a confidence thing with your calls, you know, yep.

we talked about before, it's proximity. And if you've got birds that are covering the countryside, even if they're not making noise, and I'm sitting there and I'm working and it's in a spot that has something going for it, you know, half hours isn't enough time, Forty five minutes isn't enough time. And you know, I just think about how often you you know, especially when you're younger, and you're you're just gung ho and you stand up and you walk twenty yards.

long can you sit still? You know, me just wiggling, you know, forty five minutes into sit or a minute has cost me birds me you know, thinking I can do something that because there hasn't been any action, So when aside from me just setting a clock and is it just a gut feel? And how long you're gonna sit if the area is like cold versus lukewarm, like maybe you heard a gobble, you know, a half hour into the sites that like can you run us through?

Like when you're gonna move aside from just setting your clock to two hours or is it as simple as just I'm gonna give this two hours because I think that's the right time, or that's how big this area is, or I.

this is in the white tail space big time. But turkeys, because people they're visible. People think they're gonna go strike one up or they're gonna go see one There's a lot of covering ground and not as much hunting, you know, guys out there. You know, you go hunting over the counter unit for elk in Colorado. You know, if it's the first week, you probably better off sitting on that water all day, even though most people can't do it right. And turkeys, I think we just don't give them enough time.

And you got to think, you know, sometimes these birds, you know, we all love that bird that runs in, right, A lot of them don't, especially when it's greened up and they've had some pressure.

and can pick things up that are unnatural. And we've had birds coming in where I know there's a bird within eighty or ninety yards and I can't pick the dang thing up, and you know that little head's bobbing around, and so it's like, be patient, don't move, only move when you know, when when you absolutely know, because we've all taken those risks like getting our gun up or

turning where we think the bird's gonna come. And and you know, that kind of tags on to the patients of time, but it's like they're so good, and it's it's seeing you, seeing movement, seeing any of that that you know, being patient, only moving when you can it is going to be to your advantage because like you said, I've I've flushed birds by getting up after half hour. I've I've got birds to run away because I've you know,

moved my knee at the wrong time. Yeah, patience goes a long way when turkey and you know, being just being comfortable. That is one thing me and Jordan talked about last last week on the podcast was becoming as comfortable as you can under the tree. We've actually went to using foldable like low sitting chairs just because we can sit there for hours and not have to move, and it's it's as stupid as a little chair would seem.

Has probably upped my odds, you know, fifty percent on those long caulums just because I'm more willing to sit there for long sits.

we're getting older, is more patterning off the roost. If you have time available within the hunt, you know you have five six more days, do you ever pattern off the roosts? Like these birds sat here, they went this way. I'm gonna take that a the learning dam. I'm gonna leave them alone. I'm gonna listen to them, I'm gonna show them, but I'm never gonna get close enough to bump them and then use that against them on the

following day. And how important that can be, you know, for your excess, especially on public ground where you're you're finding you know, maybe not as many birds as you want. And that's really your only play.

that's like kind of old school advice. I take it way further and I go, can you pattern them throughout the day? You know, because a lot of times they're not that killable off the roost. I shouldn't say they're not that callable off the roost, because they're gonna be following those hens and they're gonna play that game till nine and ten o'clock in the morning, and then you

start getting a window on a lot of birds. And so yeah, it's great to know where they're gonna start and where they're gonna end.

may be. You know, they walked by there, They're most likely you know it tomorrow, Let's just go back and have a sandwich, or go try to locate some other

birds that we haven't. You know, we may not screw up and then go and kill that bird tomorrow because chances are, you know, as long as they don't get bumped and not crazy weather wind switches, they're gonna be back in that same area Versus me trying to justify how I'm gonna crawl through a field and go kill that bird when you know chances are under a percent. You know, before we before we do it, do it.

approach from any direction. But as far as like getting caught, needing to use terrain vegetation to your advantage and not getting picked off is as tough as it gets while you're wild turkey on you, especially since there's multiple eyes. But in your opinion, like how close do you want to be before you start your calling? And you may have to add some context to that as far as you know vegetation what it allows, But what's your ideal

like always closer the better? But but what's that like magic circle to that bird.

out a spot to sit and that's enough. I mean, they're coming because you're just you're there, you know, And it's so for me, it's it's, you know, pretty close. But you know, if you get to seventy five yards on a bird and you especially early season, you're in

trouble a lot of times. And so it kind of depends if it's earlier late and I'm I'm not huge on pushing it too much, you know, like if I know there's a bird there and I think I can work him, I don't need to be super close, and so I would say just kind of again, be a little bit cautious. But sometimes the terrain lets you get right there, you know. I mean I killed a bird

in Nebraska a few years ago with my bow. It was just strutting his ass off on a ridge top and he was I couldn't get him down to where I was. And I got up there and I got real close to that bird because I had a quiet way to get up there, and I called him over that ridge because I was like twenty yards away before I made a peep. And then you know, you're I mean, you're talking a little soft, you know, like real, You're

not gonna blow his ears out here. But for that bird to walk over and look, you know, and if you can get to like fifty yards on him even you know, especially if you're gun hunting man, they're gonna give you your look like you're you're gonna get your chance, but you better be ready.

they're super visible, like that's a that's a possibility. But if you want to, if you want to really enjoy turkey hunting, you learn how to call.

was fourteen or fifteen birds, and I enjoyed it. But yeah, they're on public ground. It's always a little bit dangerous. Yep, you know, you're you're and but yeah, it's it's definitely a different challenge. But but I think I'm like, you'd rather call them in, And that leads me to my

next question. We talk a lot about calling birds on and cutting distance, but can you kind of roll through kind of your calling system, Like is there a strategy you've mentioned in the past on public land sometimes you'll actually do the opposite of what you think call out or if you're hunting private birds, like just kind of go through your your calling system if there is one, or so.

to gobble, but you'll get a hand to respond. And so they I mean, they almost always give you a courtesy yelp.

after a while. But almost every calling sequence that I have that's a cold call, I'm starting off so off just in case, and then I never leave without doing a locator, you know, one more, Yeah, just going away, Yeah, just because you know, like you don't know man like that, he might not hit anything you make in that crow caller that awl who might get him, or you know, you gobble and the depending on where you're at, gobble with a mouth, callar whatever.

demeanor leading up to that. But you know, we may rip his head off right off the bat, or we may like, let's try a cal cal, see if he hooks on that, and then if not, let's try an excited cal cal and if that doesn't work, maybe we'll do like a little moaning bugle, you know, and you kind of run these progressions because there is times no matter how much we get uh, you know, we get accused of biggling too much into aggressively. There are some

progressions we run kind of what's your thought there? Are you gonna just kind of start like the lowest level or are you just gonna read the situation or what's the first peep coming out of your mouth? And how do you decide? Kind of.

up on her. Yeah, if you get that hen, if you get a hen that's that's angry and she starts cutting, you're gonna get a bird fired out, Like there's there's nothing better out there. And you know, I really learn this hunt fall birds because hens get real territorial in the fall and they'll come in and chest bump decoys. I mean, you see it in the spring too, but it's real common in the fall for them to get territorial over food sources. And man, when you get them

going and they're pissed, the world changes. And so I mean, if you have a live hen doing that, that's great. But you can do that. I mean, I can do that with a mouth call on and a pot call and you know you can do it with a box call too, But you can make that like confrontation shou happen, and Tom's just freaking love it.

it a yelop. You know, it's like you're trying to figure out what's gonna work, and maybe you know nothing does. But I'm I'm similar. You kind of start slow, but as you know, you run through your four or five different progressions and if none of them hook, you run back through them loud, and then if nothing hooks, you're just like, all right, I don't know what to do or it's gonna be a real tough bird to call him. But yeah, I think similar to you, we go loud real quick, and.

He can see your decoys, he can hear you, and I go the opposite way with a bird like that, if I can watch him where then I do a lot of soft purring and clucking and just like little hen chatter back and forth where it's you know, if you're gun hunting. It's different with bowl hunting because a lot of times they won't commit right to the decoys, but you'll get that drive by and they'll be in gun range and it's one of those things it's just kind of like it kind of just like pulls them closer.

Whether it's not that typical run in and just make it happen, but they're like, Okay, I'm gonna I'm gonna get closer to you.

When he gets to a certain spot, he's gonna be able to see my decoys. One thing I have to do is just make sure my gun's kind of pointed in this somewhat right direction, because he's gonna probably be silent as I'm silent. But yeah, you either be quiet and then either one he'll come all the way in silent or he gets he gets a little bit frustrated, maybe five, seven, ten minutes into that wait and I'll

finally gobble again. And then it seems like you can get him fired up after that versus like just giving him. And so that's kind of when I'll use that silent treatment is when I think I got something semi interested, kind of knows where we're at. There's not a lot more calling needed. He's either gonna come or not, And then just go quiet for a little bit.

the decoys. He's like, you guys can see me. And then you know, two jakes walk out in the other corner or something. You know, something changes the dynamic and then all all of the sudden, you know, like now he's callable. But that is a you know, learning that, like you can't like you could tell people that like, oh you got to take a break, like that's like just an experienced thing.

lot of reasons, but I would say, learn something. Learn that, like you don't have to you know, purse clucks whatever, Like you don't have to do you can kill a lot of birds just yelping, but you gotta know how to do it. And it's it is not a sound when you listen to somebody yelp. You know, it's like a two note sound. And people listen to other callers

and it's like too fast. The cadence is just a little off and they're not breaking that that note right, Like it's just like a one note, too fast cadence and it's unnatural. But you know, if you listen to somebody do it, it's like, okay, well it doesn't it sounds like a turkey whatever. Then you listen to a real turkey and you go, okay, they're a lot slower, and there's like a real distinct break in each yelp,

And I say, just like, master that as best. You can work on it in your truck when you're driving whatever. Because once you get that confidence, you're gonna call in more birds. You're gonna hear them make real sounds, and you're just gonna your your vocabulary is gonna expand.