Ep. 34: Talking Turkey with Jordan Budd

elk and mill Gear. This also allowed her a lot of time in the field and was a great platform for her to test equipment, so along with filming the hunts, she also started to write gear reviews. This has all led to her current position with Meat Eater producing content testing gear and now she is the co host of the gear Talk podcast that she works with Jannis Patellas on.

Aside from the media, she also runs an outfitting business in Nebraska on the ramps that she grew up in called Running Water Hunting, where she guides and hunts for deer and Mariam's turkey. Welcome to the show, Jordan's thanks Jason, thanks for having me on. Man. How's everything going? Things are? Things are good, They're warming up, snows melting. I'm in Nebraska. How's everything going? Things are. Things are good. They're warming up,

snows melting. Um. I'm in Nebraska currently helping out with some ranch stuff and then getting ready for turkey season, and I was a little worried about all the snow we had, but it seems to be melting and and been seeing a lot of birds, so I'm excited to get out there. Yeah. So you're talking a lot of snow in Nebraska as well as Idaho. Yeah, and it pretty much. I've been here for about a week and about the time I left Idaho it really cut loose and started snowing there. So um, yeah, it's been a

little bit of a shift. Yeah. Yeah, it looks I've seen pictures and it looks like people are trying to dig themselves out in a few places in Idaho and Montana. And uh, you know, turkeys, turkeys hunting is gonna be interesting. I think I think your snow line is going to be a lot lower. But I'm starting to really worry

for our deer and elk. You know, I've seen lots of videos and you know, Utah and Idaho and people often to do some supplemental feeding, so hopefully we don't lose too many and Um, you know, just just pictures on social media's people start to head out in the woods and maybe look for horns, like a few too many deadheads showing up. Not Yeah, it's been been a tough winner on them. Yeah, it's been really difficult. But

uh yeah, things are things are good, good good. So, like all of our podcasts, we're gonna start off with a few listener questions I'm gonna throw at you, and if you have any questions of your own, h that's to our listeners, feel free to get hold of us on social media, send us a message, or you can email us at CTD at Phelps Gamecalls dot com and we'll do our best to get your questions aired. So

the first question we have is from Alan Rodgers. Um, he was asking what does your layering system typically look like for spring Turkey? So I'll let you you take that one on first and see what you come up with. Yeah, So typically here we're looking at like, you know, thirty degrees in the morning, maybe even a little bit colder, and then getting up like into the fifties. We might be hitting sixty degrees as we move on in April. So I typically just wear like a a mid like

a midweight style pant. The cord Get Guide pant is what I like to use. And then I like the wick hoodie has been a staple piece for me and pretty much everything. Um. I really like to have that little lightweight hood on there. And then I go with like an Origin hoodie, so just a midweight fleece over the top of that, and then a catalyst jacket over the top of that. That pretty much rounds me out.

If it's you know, like dipping into those thirties in the morning, I'll put like a Brooks vest or like a lightweight puffy jacket underneath my catalyst jacket. But that pretty much will We'll get me through that first little bit of oldness in the morning, and then it seems to heat up pretty quick and especially if we're moving, So that's that's what I use. Yeah, and I'm very similar um, you know, core Get Guide. It seems to

be kind of just my go to pant. And then if I need to if it's getting really chilly, um, you know, maybe throw just a wick layer on under it, you know, just a bass layer on. Um, and uh, you know, I I will go to just like my Chamberlain UM you know coat if needed over the top everything. Of course, we have to cut our noise, you know, it's it's a little bit of a noisier piece, so we have to be a little bit more cognizant of our movement. But very similar to you. Um, you know,

we've got got the hoodie on. Um. I like to be able to get the wind off my ears, my neck if needed. Um. You know, I used to wear the Klamath hoodie, but now it switched to the origin Is. Things have kind of changed. And then um, you know, on top of that, we'll we'll either throw the Chamberlain or if it's not too cold, I'll just stuff it back and um carried around. You know, usually once the sun comes up, things warm up a little bit. But yeah,

very very similar. Um. One thing I've been doing also, it's just like in addition to to the lightweight hoods, it's just like a gator seems to be a little bit of a game changer as well for me because I now use that as my my mask. But it also helps like just keep that cold air off of my my neck. So um, I also make sure that that that net gator kind of goes with me everywhere. And there's a couple different weights. Yeah, I like the

really light one. Is that the one you use? Yeah, yeah, that's the one I use the majority of the time. I do have the heavier one, but um yeah, usually just that real light one so I can keep it, you know, around my neck most time. But you know, I use it for my mask now as well when it comes time to turkey hunt, and I'll just pulled up and that acts as my mask, you know, even though the origin hoodie now does have you know, a mask that comes out of the hood. I just usually

there's too much a movement. I like to be pretty mobile, and you know it's usually pull my mask up at the at the last second, so I don't want to pull my hood down and you know, get my hat rearranged as I'm trying to get that mask over. Yeah. Sweet is a great set up. Yeah yeah. So yeah.

And and there's places where where we know in Northeast Washington, we're gonna hunt Meriam's and I might dress a little lighter because I know my my my the first half hour of my day is going to be climbing a thousand feet up to a ridge, you know, or or a spot. So it's just it's depending on where you at. But I I usually always similar to to big game hunting, I'm gonna carry that that same kit, and I'm just adjust throughout the day if i need be all right,

if I need to sweet. Um, next question from David Smith, Um, should I carry binoculars with me while turkey hunting? And I'm gonna kick this one to you, but I used to be I'll let you answer, but uh, I used to never carry binoculars. Like either if I hear the bird, I'll kill it and if not, then you know, I'll see the thing. But um, i'll see if your answer kind of drives with mine. Yeah, I think some of

it depends on where you're hunting. Like here, it's you know, we have wooded areas on the river bottom, but otherwise it's pretty open and there's like big open openings between the trees. So like it's just fairly conducive to glassing. So like I'll use glassing a lot, even when locating birds from a long distance, you know, even like the night before we go out or whatever. But I do carry a set with me, but I just go with

like an eight power lightweight, like really compact. You know, I'm not looking to put them on a tripod and go, you know, like high power on a tripod or anything like that. I'm just looking for something with like a wide field of view, lightweight, easy to carry in my chest harness, and then like just be able to give a little look, you know. But uh yeah, I don't go too crazy on it. But I do like to carry binoculars. Yep. I was. I was in the camp

of you don't need optics for turkey hunting. You know, they gobble at you, you know where they're if they're there. But so many times we started getting busted, and then I knew I needed binoculars. But then I didn't want to carry them my big you know what I would consider my Western hunting binoculars, you know, my big ten by forty twos, or my range finding binoculars or whatever I might have. And so I still went a few more years without carrying them and just kept getting busted.

And now I can't imagine turck hunt without them, you know, whether I'm crossing you know, food plots in Kansas, and they need to glass like the other timber edge because I can't pick things out versus you know, if I'm hunting in um, you know, more open stuff like eastern Washington, Idaho. Like we'll just sit on a ridge, you know maybe and when those birds are in lockdown and they're just not gobbling, you know, they're just they're hind up, they're

not gonna gobble. Um, we'll just spot them with the binoculars where it's like you may not have spotted them with your naked eye across the canyon. Um. You know, they sometimes are easy to spot. But we've you know, similar to UM to spot in you know, mule deer that are in tough to see areas or in the shade. Um, we're able to just spot turkeys. And that kind of gets us back in the game. So UM, like you, I carry a very small eight by thirty twos. They

have a spot in my chest rigg. I can still carry my calls and UM yeah, I'm I'm always carrying binoculars with me now when I'm in the Turkey woods. Sweet the other they're nice to have, man. Yeah, So that kind of wraps up our our two listener questions. Once again, if you have questions for us, for my guests, for myself, UM, please email them to us at CTD at Phelps Gamecalls dot com and we'll do our best to get them on here. So now we're gonna kind

of jump into to the discussion. Um, we're gonna talk kind of stay in your lane. We're gonna talk about gear for turkeys. Um, you know, we're gonna talk about you know, seat versus seatpad, turkey vest versus chess regg. We're gonna dive a little deeper into optics, um, you know, ground blinds and all of that. But before that, UM, I want you to give me a little bit of the lowdown on the gear Talk podcast. I'm I'm maybe the worst because I don't listen to podcasts, not even

my own. After I've done so, I haven't listened to any of the gear Talk podcasts. But give me kind of the what you're doing, where it's going, and what you you and Janna's hope to accomplish with the podcast

before we jump into our conversation. Yeah. So there. You know, there's a lot of podcasts out on different networks now and a lot of times they're hitting gear on like one episode, but there wasn't a podcast that was really talking a lot about gear and I think that that's something that people really like, is they like hearing your kit and what you're using, and it helps them narrow down there's so many options on the market, like it helps them narrow down a little bit, you know, of

what they really actually need to buy. And that's really what we wanted to do with the podcast was just have it be a source for that, you know, consume can go listen and get a little bit better idea of like what they actually need for an upcoming hunt and what they can get by without. And then also just be a really educational platform to how some of

this stuff works. Because a lot of this gear we're using is super it is technical, and there's a lot of thought and process that goes into it and new materials that do different things, and we wanted to give a platform to be able to have experts on to talk about breathable laminates and to talk about dwr's for your outerwear and why it's important to wash those because it like revital It can revitalize the DWR and just make your clothing perform a little bit better. So that's

really what the podcast is about. We're doing some stuff, we got some stuff coming up that's going to be really interesting. We got soft shell jackets from of course First Light, but we also have them from qu Sitka

arc ICs, Stone Glacier. So we're gonna do kind of I don't know if like I don't really think like a head to head, but we're gonna go through those jackets, talk about fit, talk about some of the materials that they use and the ideas behind them, and just give folks like a hopefully a place to go that they can be like, hey, I've been looking at these jackets like these are kind of how they fit. This is the difference in some of the materials and just the

idea behind like what they built them for. And so yeah, we're doing things like that with those jackets. We're gonna do pants, eventually, we're gonna do like backpacks. We're trying to do like a few different things with it. But really it's we really wanted to make it to educate and just you know, be a source of learning so consumers can like better make a decision on their purchase

nice nicely. I'm we talked a little bit before we got started here and I'm kind of like a gear nerd as well, Um, you know, especially early on once you kind of I feel like once I figured out my gear, I kind of just settled in and don't

look at the new stuff as much. And that's where I think like a podcast like Gears, if if if I was to listen, if I if I was, you know, somebody that hadn't figured out my gear and didn't want to spend a bunch of money like we have in the past to kind of figured out, you could tune into a podcast like that and just kind of get the lowdown and people that have you know, touched, felt,

and used all this gear in the field. Um, you know, maybe maybe save save a few bucks and make sure that you're getting you know, good gear that other people have reviewed. Um, you're not everything's gonna work or fit and function like it does, um, you know for you and jannat but I think you can get a pretty good sense on on what's gonna work and and um, like I say, cuts cuts a lot of costs out of trying it all for yourself. Yeah, it's been Uh, it's been fun and we've got a lot of good

feedback on it. So con forward to seeing what it does good. Yeah, I might I might have to change my ways and put you guys on like the Spotify the Spotify playlist, so I can have you guys in the rotation. Um so no, no, I wish you guys the best of luck. Um it's on the it's a meat Eater brand podcast. Uh, it's gear Talk and it's hosted by Jordan and Joannas. Go check it out if you're looking at um all their gear reviews. Is it a does it come out weekly or you guys every

other week? Right now we're in every other week. Yep. I like that cadence. It seems like sometimes producing these is tough enough to do every other week. I couldn't imagine doing it every week like some of our podcasts. So well, yeah, no, I really appreciate you having having you on. So now we're going to jump into some of my discussions. Uh, you know, the discussion I want to have with you because you honestly have a better grasp on some of this stuff like ground blinds that

we're going to get into. Um, We've got a good conversation coming up about boots for tricky hunting and kind of how I've had to change, you know, the way I think. So we're gonna jump into it to our conversation. The first thing I wanted to talk about is are you a seat person? Are you a seat pad person

kind of? And is your style running gun or if you're on the ranch there in Nebraska, are you kind of uh, you know, set up and you know ground blinds in a in a high seat, you know, kind of kind of give me your take on that, and then I'll expand on it with what I found to be the most comfortable set up. Yeah. So a lot of times, if I'm hunting myself, I'm probably just archery hunting.

And a lot of times like we uh me in Leah, my wife, we shot a turkey out of or just on the ground out in the open with a bow last year and that was like super fun to be able to do that. But for the most part, like I'm probably sitting in a blind for archery season. Um. But if we're if we're guiding, then I'm like we're more running gun with a shotgun. Um. I've mostly been a seat pad person, but now that I've gone to something more like a chest rig, it's I don't always

grab it. I seem to forget it, so I just haven't been using one. And when you were talking about the little chair that you've been using, that's what I want to hear more about that, because I think that's what I need to do. Yeah, And so I grew up with a new turkey vest every year every other year for some reason, you know, the young guy thinking that turkey vests mattered or the butt pad was going

to get better. And I still found and maybe it was me being impatient as a younger hunter, where maybe I'm finally starting to get a little bit of patience. But that was my biggest I think my biggest fault when it came to turkey hunting is I wanted to move and some of these seat pads, no matter how thick they are, no matter what tree is sit under, I think fifteen to twenty minutes in and you're like,

all right, my ass is numb, it's going sore. You're rocking from your right to your left, and you're thinking of now you're starting to tell yourself why this plan isn't gonna work. And you know what, I should get up and move from this tree because it's because you're uncomfortable. And I've went through that enough times, went out to my buddy's place and to hunt in Kansas where we've been hunting a lot, you know, deer, and we cut

the line one tree down everything out there. So I have a lot of stories about Kansas, but we go back there and hunt twice year. My buddy Randy handed me this this bag that looked just like your normal you know, foldable beach chair, you know the one you can buy for fifteen dollars at Walmart. You know, springtime rolls around, they've got them out in the boxes. But this was a low to the ground that sits maybe two or three inches off and they're built a little

bit more sturdy, right, um camouflage. I think that brown was like Cabella's. So we hunted out of those, and I'm like, man, I could fall asleep under every tree that I sit under. It's just super comfortable. It adjust to a little bit of unevenness, and it just was a game changer for me and it allowed me to be a lot more patient. I think the one I'm using now was like a Browning I don't remember the

exact name, like a Browning strutter hunting chair or something. Um, it's just it folds out and now that I'm using a chest rig rather than carrying at my vest. Um, I just throw it over my shoulder kind of, you know, I don't cross saddle across my back. And that's just something I carry everywhere. And when we go to set up, within about twenty seconds, I can, you know, throw the thing out, get it set in, and we're we're we're in place, and it's just allowed long sets. And like

I said, I'm getting more patient. A lot of our turkey call ins are taken thirty to forty five minutes, especially when we're hunting in that that time of the year where the talms are just completely hand up and aren't moving very fast and they're kind of moving at their own pace. Um, those little folding chairs are are We're a game changer for us. And I can't imagine turkey hunting off of a seat pad or a little we used to have, like those little hard seats like

the the cordrea was stretched really tight. You know, Um, those things aren't comfortably. This is this is the best system I've found. So Um, if you haven't turkey hunted off of a small folding seat and you don't think it would change things too much, I highly encourage you to try it, um, because it's it is a game changer for me. And like I said, I fell asleep under a tree more than I ever have, um, you know, in the past. It's just super comfortable. Um yeah, so

I ditch seatpad. I'm a seat guy now. I like it, Yeah, and like not to change it from turkeys, but I think colin kyotes, I've seen people use those two yep. And uh, well we'll jump into it a little bit on the tick side as well. But I like getting myself like another barrier of protection off the ground, um, you know, and only giving them four legs to climb up to start to get on, you know, and and my feet to get on me. Um. So yeah, it

just has it's it's been a good system. Um. And uh yeah, that's kind of a great segue into seat versus seat pad and then you know with the chest rig versus a turkey vest conversation, Um, what's your system currently. I've never been like a big turkey vest person. Um. I've had a couple and I just always seem to end up figuring out how to put stuff in my

pockets enough stuff in my pockets to just make it work. Um. But then I started using a chest rig and that's been really nice just to have everything in one spot. Like I can toss it on, I can still get in and out of the pickup with it easy. Um, I don't have to take it off. Everything's just in one spot. And really, like when I'm done with turkey season, like the thing gets put on the shelf and then it's like I pull it off the shelf and pretty much everything is in there that I need. So yeah,

that's that's what I use. An FHF just the regular chest rig and then I put in an E four pouch on the front of it this year just for a little bit extra space for like my headlamp and stuff like that. Um. Yeah, but that's been a that's been a good system for me. Yeah. Are you also using uh, I'm I'm the most unorganized hunter in the world. Like, as long as it fits in the pocket, it's good. So when you look at my chest rigg, it's two pot calls, my strikers, my locators are all just like

just in there in the bottom right. Are you using any of the divide like the striker dividers, the shotgun shell dividers and stuff. HF for you just kind of if it fits and it zips and you're good to go, zips. I like it. Yeah, No, I do use that that turkey I think it's just called like their turkey accessory kid or whatever. That velcro's in the inside, UM, one thing that's kind of cool. With the diaphragm U divider deal,

I can like stick it to the inside. But then with the velcrow the E four pouch has a velcrow patch on the outside, and so I can unstick that and I can stick it to the outside if I'm if I need to just get to my calls more, if I don't want to just keep my thing open as I'm running around. Um. But for the most part, I keep that stuck in. But yeah, I've got it pretty I've got it pretty organized in there. Yeah. Yeah, I've they sent me all the Turkey accessories and I

haven't ran it. Um, But I'm gonna try to do a better job of, you know, setting setting it up. And I wanted to touch on turkey vest just a little bit. As I mentioned earlier, I had I had all kinds of turkey vests growing up. Um, and I got to the point where I had to have seventeen

pot calls, you know, fourteen strikers. I had two. You know, it's like you just had to fill up every pocket and then when it was time to like where did I put my scour pad or my chalk, You're like, oh, it's inside the front left pocket, two pockets deep, and then the zipper that's inside. You know, it's like you

couldn't find anything. And so I think it just comes with a lot of experience and learning, like, hey, you probably only need two pot calls, Max, even though I'm the game call guy, right like I need to have calls on, may need to be promoting them. But you're like, I can probably get away with maybe a box calf. I want to use it on this hunt. Is it a windy day? Is a big country? If not, maybe I'll leave my box call the truck or the or

the side by side for that day. So I think it was just like learning that I didn't need to have so much stuff on me to turkey hunt. You know, I can leave the truck with three different mouth diaphragms, you know, a couple different strikers, maybe a crow call, maybe a woodpecker call, and my binoculars. And maybe a

couple extra shotgun shells. To be honest, I actually just been carrying my three shotgun shells in the gun, and it's do you do I really need to bring a whole bunch of backups, Like if I do my job, keep my shots close, like I shouldn't even need to shoot more than once. So it's just like, yeah, I don't need to carry a whole extra box of shells anymore. And the chest rig is just like you said, it's simple. I grab it at the beginning of the year. It's got everything I need in it, and I don't have

to carry this big, cumbersome turkey best. The one thing I wouldn't say it's it's a knock on the chest rigg. It's just one of the things I don't have a good solution for. It is like carrying a little bit of water. I'm not gonna lie like we're not hiking mountains for turkeys. But it's like, all right, you've been away from the for three or four hours, like I'm thirsty, Um,

Like what am I doing for water? And usually that's just you know, a little cheap disposable water bottle like just shoved in my origin pocket, you know, or something that's what it ends up being. Um, so that's the one thing I miss on the turkey best having a

spot for water. And we're going to talk about decoys here in a little bit, but you know, my turkey best used to also just to hold all of my decoys in the back, and now that we're using you know, some Dave Smith decoys and whatnot, I don't have the need to carry a bunch of foamies around. So it's like the vest just really doesn't have a lot of utility anymore for me. Yeah. Yeah, And I will say I'm pretty like I like turkey hunting. I don't like love love love it, so I don't get too crazy.

I keep like my call is pretty simple. I have like a pot call, and I have mouth diaphragm calls, even like last year, even guiding people I don't remember. I think I just like forgot my actual old turkey diaphragms. I called in at least three birds with an Elk campre dude. Yeah, and it works like it's super clear, it's a super clean there's no rasking this to it, but it works. Yeah. I'm always amazed how many people we get sending us pictures in what Turkey's killed with

our ELK calls. It's just they're more comfortable. They don't have to do a whole bunch of professional calling. You know, it's just it works. It gets a job done. And you know, even though you know, my job is to make and sell game calls, like it's really ninety percent of the equations right place, right time, right mood, right, it's it's not necessarily the calling does help and finish

them off. But you know, very rarely, Um, you know, are you is the culling making up the majority of of you know, the the am on a word that wrong. The calling isn't very big piece of the pie when it comes like you're, you know, putting the success together. It's it's a small portion. And I recognize that. Um so optics, we talked about it a little bit. Carrying binoculars. Um do you do you carry like spotters in your truck?

Like not with you for sure? If anybody carries a spotter white turkey hunting and I want to talk to you and figure out why. But like in your rig, are you using anything else? Do you bring range finders to maybe just check your range? Where you're sittting decoys up or are kind of what do you look at

as far as like your optics package while you're tricky hunting. Yeah, for the most part, you know, I'm just carrying those like an eight power on my chest and then I will carry a spotting scope in my pickup just to like really sometimes what I'll do guiding wise is I'll go put people in a blind in the evening and then they can just kind of hunt themselves, and then I'll go and do some scouting try to find birds.

And I can, dude, I've picked out birds in trees with my spotting scope from like long ways away, like a mile away, yep. And then it just gives you an idea of like, all right, well those birds are like kind of over there, like we can probably you know, slip in this way or whatever. So that has been nice for me. Um, something I'm gonna use a little bit more of uh this year. And not like I don't want to do super shameless plug for a sig.

But there have you seen their image stabilizing binoculars. I've looked through them. Yeah, I think um at the Western un somebody had them last year and looked through them a little bit. Yeah. Yeah, they're they're ten powers, are super little and super light, and they're like if you're hand holding all the time like you are often with turkeys, like that thing is so nice just to steady it up. Cool. Cool. Yeah. And one thing I used to also not carry was

a range finder and my my rifle one. You know, I use loophold stuff. So like my twenty eight hundred was just too much for turkeys, Like right, it's it's not geared up. So I just grabbed my my full draw. I think last year I used the four. This year I'll have the five. But you know what, just any archery range finder that's good. Um, short distant ranging. Um,

it just helps your setup. You know when you're when you're out there, you know, if you're on the edge of a field, your depth perception is off a little bit, like just making sure you're not shooting too far. You're you're setups right, Um, So we typically range stuff and when we set up just real quickly, all right, we can shoot out to that bush, we can shoot to that line. Um, we can shoot ten yards past the decoys,

whatever it may be. And it's just just so we have some confidence and we're not miss miss you know, ranging something by fifteen twenty yards. Um. Yeah, yeah, that's it's a great thing to carry with you. Now we're going to roll into the next Uh. Question I have for you is on ground blinds, which you you know, guiding and having you know, customers that you may want to limit their their movement or somebody that might not be experienced. Um in the woods. Um, I've never hunted

out of a ground blind, um for turkeys. So what do you feel about ground blinds? Um? What's where were they useful? And then maybe where do they have their drawbacks? Yeah, drawbacks can definitely be just your ability to move is quick. Um, you kind of have to. And it seems like when I when I go to hunt in a ground blind, I bring like the kitchen sink with me because I

feel like I got to sit there for a long time. Um. But then I always if they're not moving or something, I always feel like I got to get out and and get after them. So there's a patience factor there for sure. Um. But I like ground blinds for especially if the birds aren't moving, um something that or aren't talking. Sorry if if they're not talking, Um, I can set that ground blind up in a spot where I've just seen turkeys go buy a lot or something like that.

Sometimes like you just got to wait them out. And sometimes, like you know, clients always come in and they want that like gobbler running in from a long ways away and they want to get the whole experience. But the reality is it just doesn't always happen like that, and so you got to be able to adjust. So that's

where I see ground blinds really coming in. I put them in places where I just know that turkey's like to be or pass through, So if we can't get them talking, that's always a good place to put somebody,

like in the evenings or the afternoons or whatever. But yeah, it's just kinda they're nice because you can move around, You can move around, kind of have more stuff with you, like if you think that you're gonna especially I think like on a really small chunk of property where you can't really you don't really just want to walk through it and blow it out. Just spending a lot of time in a ground blind seems to be like just kind of how the East, you know, more Eastern type

hunting is um just due to parcel size. So, um, they can be really nice, but I definitely see where people get impatient and they just don't want to sit there. Yeah, and then um continue on my uh me not knowing anything about ground blinds, you can see them for you know, you see him out there one hundred twenty ninety nine and then you can see ground blinds at five hundred dollars. Are you of the opinion that you get what you're

paid for on ground blinds? I know that, like the space inside may be different, like the shooting windows may be laid out different. Um even I mean, I'll even give you a chance, like is there a brand that you like to use or is it more of those just a ground blinds of ground blind you. So I've gone back and forth on this a lot. Um. I think if you're in a spot where it's really windy and you're dealing with a lot of winds, um, you're

gonna want a more expensive one. Just it seems like the poles or b fere where the joints like come in usually they out those are just better, um, because the wind just destroys them. That's that's a huge problem we have here. Like I have muzzloader. Deer hunters in them a lot, and the winds just kill them. Um, Honestly, I've I've gone to a I've bought a ton of those things, and uh, the double bowls just seem to like be holding strong and it's it's Um they're expensive, man,

They're like four hundred bucks. Um. But they've got some They've got some really cool ones. Now. I bought one just this last year for deer hunters that it's like the sea through but you can't see into it, like the whole the whole wall in front of you or the whole two walls in front of you. You You can completely see through them, um, but they are not supposed to be able to see in. So like that's super

cool too. It's just kind of fun to sit in it because you're not just looking through a tiny little window all the time. That's awesome. I hunted um a little bit out of them. Um. They were elevated ground blinds, but the ones in Kansas they had more of like a metal structure like and then they were screwed down to like a palette or like a platform. But yeah, those ones are like frustrating because you would have deer running from your right and you could hear them and

then they'd pop in front of you. It's like, man, I wish I could see like I it almost like, I don't want to say it took away from the experience, but it did take away from the experience because I was limited. I can only see, you know, ninety degrees out in front of me, nothing to my right. But yet Yeah, so it would be cool to have like that double bull system you're talking about where you can actually see through and see everything versus out out you know,

strategic windows that you have opened. So yeah, yeah, pretty cool. One one quick thing Baronet. There's a company called Baronet that makes a blind called an OX five and instead of four you know, usually you usually it's a five hub blind, so you have four sides and then your top. This one's actually a six, so you have one more U The thing is huge. Um so, like people with kids, like multiple kids, and like they want to sit in and have a lot of room to like, you know,

have the kids laid down and stuff like that. OXX five is great and I think it's like three hundred bucks or something like that. The thanks for educating me a little bit on ground blinds. Now we're gonna jump into boots for turkey. Um. You know, as I got started, it was always just took whatever boots I was MAO hunting Western big game in um and and those those kind of got the nod for for turkey hunting. But you know, the more I've learned, the more I've you know,

got the chance to try different boots. Um, I'm turning into more of a like a lacrosse like arrowhead type guy. Um. It seems like every morning the grass is wet, um, you know when during spring turkey, regardless of whether it's a clear night or not. What's your boot system, um for for turkey hunting? And what do you what do you go with? Yeah, so here we're not really dealing with like swampy type stuff. In the spring, the ground

like hardens up pretty quick. So I'm kind of the same honestly, just like even a flexible pair of boots, like not even really a mountain boot, you know, just like one that's pretty quiet when you're walking, just like a comfortable, nice boot. But if I'm using my like rubber boots and stuff, a lot of times it's really nice with rubber boots because they're warmer in the morning and stuff. They're just warmer, and if you do have to like do a crieker river crossing or something like that,

they're just easier to use that with. But I have always been like, even for all this ranch stuff, I've always been a muck boot person, Like that's just always what I've bought, Like that always seemed to be the gold standard to me was muck boots. And I recently, like a couple of years ago, I tried apparel across that were I don't remember what they were called, but they were just like a little bulky like they were pretty much the same as muck I was like, yeah, okay,

that's kind of one and the same. Well, this last year I got the Arrowhead model from Lacrosse. Dude, it's like a different situation, Like it's I got the seven millimeter ones. They make a lighter one too, but it's supposed to be like negative forty to forty degrees is what those things are supposed to be good for, like cold weatherwise, And they're so much more comfortable once you put them on. It's like a running shoe. Yeah, And that's that was the reason I always hated rubber boots.

You know, growing up, we just probably had the cheap ones where if you walk more than you know, out to your mailbox and back, you had blisters everywhere and they were just uncomfortable from your your your heel slipping. Um. I got those arrowhead sports, you know, the same seven millimeter and it's like I could probably you know, hike all day in them and not have any issues. I don't know about going up a mountain for too long, but that was always the reason I would just go

to go to my my mountain boots. Um. And so yeah, if if I know I'm not climbing mountains, if I'm not gonna you know, put on five or six miles on in a morning or a day turkey hunting, I'm always gonna go for those, um, you know those knee high lacrosse boots at this point, you know those type of boots. Um. Now we were talking a little bit before. Now, if I'm showing up in my spot northeast Washington, where

it's public ground, it's super rugged. Your day near you know, mule deer or sheep hunting for turkeys, Um, I'm still gonna lace up my my mountain boots. Because it's it's just kind of matching the terrain you're in. But um, yeah, if you haven't tried, you know, like like say, I'm not not trying to give any specific brand or company a plug, but those Lacrosse arrowheads, Um, they're they're a legit boot that you can cover some ground in and

they're super comfortable. Um, it's it's nice, Like you say, they're warmer, I know my feet aren't gonna get wet, um, and they just they're they're a good boot and you know we're gonna get into ticks here in a little bit. The other thing is that's nice, um, is that they're they're a tall boot. You know, they cover more of your they they give kind of and if you tuck your your pants in, it gives like access for ticks is a very difficult path. Yeah that's a really good

point man. Um Yeah, those those boots. I I go through this thing, like just to mention it real quick. Every time I put them on, I'm like, are these lighter than the other ones? And I'll weigh them and they weighed pretty much the same, but just the way that they fit, they just seem like nimble and lighter. I can't explain it, but I'm just like I've been blown away the last couple of weeks season them. Yeah, no, they're legit. So if you you're going out trick hunting, UM,

don't don't um discredit rubber boots. Um that they they've got their place for sure. So uh, ticks one of the things that used to just drive me nuts. They still drive me nuts, but we've kind of got them under wrap. Um, every every year I came back from Kansas, I've been bit or had ticks some kind of stuck in me. So yeah, it's it's it bothers me. My little funny story. I cannot get my boy to youth turkey hunt. And it's not just a it's not just

he's scared of ticks. It's like a serious phobia. Like if my dog comes in the house with a tick, like my kids like running through glass doors to get out the other side of the house. Like it's it's legit. So, um, ticks and what do we what do we do to fix it? And I'll let you go. And now I've got kind of a gross little story about um what what what happened to me last year in Kansas? So

what do you go to prevent ticks. Um, there's I think there's like the chemical side, and then there's what I would consider like housekeeping before you sit down, before you do this or that, like you can prevent a lot of this from happening. Yeah. I we don't have a huge tick problem here, like they're definitely around. Um, but you know the story you're gonna tell. I don't think we have anything. I've never seen anything quiet like

that here. Um. But I've got the just the basic like the off or the sawyer stuff in the house where it's just like a ticker or repellent, just spray it on the outside of your clothes. Um. I've done that a little bit. It seems like if I haven't really seen any ticks, I just kind of forget to do it, and then I don't do it. Um. I do just when I get home, though, I try to like look through all my clothes and just do like a body check and make sure that there's none stuck

to me. Um. But I'm really interested to hear what you guys say about ticks. Yeah. Yeah, so yeah, chemical wise, like we use sawyer or repel like aerosol. Um. I think I think it's mixed like a half percent permethrin. UM. I know you can get higher concentrations off of like Amazon and stuff. I'm I am in no way doning like the safety of that here on the podcast, but there are ways to get it in like higher concentration.

But yeah, we we lay out all of our gear. Um, when we get to where we're going, we spray it down. I think it lasts like two weeks and it makes it through washings and Whatnotum, So that's really helped. I would I got. I got like some. I sprayed my gaiter last year because I was always worried like if something landed on my shoulder it came off the tree. I wouldn't recommend like necessarily spray it on your gaiter and breathing through it for long periods of time. But yeah,

the chemical treatment does great. But yeah, last year in Kansas, our buddy Chris Parrish was the last one with a tag, and me and Dirk set up maybe thirty yards behind him into the woods to help do some just some supplemental calling occasionally and set up in my seat kind of set up in a bunch of oak leaves, and I could see that I always wear my gaiters as well as another if I'm wearing leather boots or I'm not wearing my rubber boots, like I still I just

want those ticks to have like a crazy path to get on me, you know, if possible. We're sitting there and I start to see some ticks like crawling up my leg. Like visually, I'm like, this is interesting. But you could watch them get to like your knee, and they get kind of almost what I would consider drunk.

They were like they would start walking crooked, and then they'd walk to the side of your pant and like literally just fall to the ground like permeteran was killing them by time they got to my knee, and then they were I must have sat in a nest, a nymph nest or a midge nest. Like they were mostly babies, but I had a couple of big ones. And then I realized that I was sitting in a lone star tick nest, which is it for those that don't know, those are the ones that carry the alpha gal syndrome.

Were when they bite you. When they bite you, you could no longer eat red meat. So now I no longer cared if Chris Parrish ever killed a turkey. I was getting up and moving once I put it all together. But yeah, and just it's not my place to tell everybody about that. But my research that I did is you got about a three percent chance if a lone star tick bites you, that you're gonna get that alpha gal. And I'm like, it's not worth it. So I picked

up my seat. You know some things I could have did there better, like cleaned out the area when I first sat down, you know, get rid of all of those oak leaves, and gave myself, you know, maybe a six by six area to sit down, which maybe would have helped. But yeah, that permeteran I said one hundred ticks earlier. I bet you I probably had, realistically fifty to sixty climb up my leg and none of them made it past my knee. So the permethrin works. Um,

it works well. Like I said, I was always worried about something coming into my neck area, so I sprayed my gator down, which is always kind of tucked in there, and I didn't feel real good after a couple of days. And I don't know if it was that or maybe I was sick, but I'm definitely not a medical doctor, but permetern works. UM. Everything else is like just extra precautions like tucking you know, a shirt in into your

pants and cinching your belt up pretty tight. Like we talked earlier rubber boots put your pants inside so they didn't have to you know a long way around. UM, I've even went to you know, putting like elastic velcro straps like around my wrist just to keep things really tight. Just just extra precautions, not necessarily gear related, but just prevent any of that stuff from happening. So we talked

a little bit earlier about vest versus chest riggs. We kind of talked about where vests maybe we're a little bit better carrying decoys are you? Are you bringing decoys in every turkey hunting situation or there's certain setups we're going to bring them. And then what what decoys do you tend to use? You know, for the most part we're especially during shotgun season, I'm just like not using one. We'll try to do that. We'll just try to not use one. UM just helps you like move setups quicker.

And then sometimes I mean, I don't know, maybe if it's just a way that I set set them up, but sometimes many they might see a decoy and then just skirt you like they don't won't commit to it for some reason. Um, so that deal. But I just have a DSD hen that I use most of the time. Um, I've got some other cheaper one, uh that are like a Jake you could put a fan on it. Um. I gotta be honest, I don't like super Nerd out

about all the different setups and all that stuff. I've got the hen that those ones from DSD like they look so realistic, like pretty realistic looking hen like finding a decoy. That's pretty much what I'm using. Yeah, I've been able. I've got a buddy that, um, Eric Broughton who's on the podcast last week. He's got a couple

of like real life stuffer hens um we're in. I've seen but just like you, I've seen them not working situations where I almost wonder if we didn't have any decoy out, if we would, it would have worked better. You always hear about people like with a Jake and a breeding Hin setup, and I just feel like at times they they have worked, you know, maybe even like detrimental to the situation. But then like last year in Kansas, we were on a field edge. We we kind of

crawled out there. We knew there were turkeys on the other end, set up our decoys and that was the only reason. You know, calling worked a little bit, but it was a visual that got those birds all the way to us. So I think they definitely have their place. And and like you, um, I've got a Dave Smith deco one of the hands and then a jake and you know, we can put the fan on and there's just times where we'll use it in times where we don't.

We usually always carry them around with us for the most part, but um, you know when we're running and gunn and like like I said, I'm already carrying a chair and then now you've got like the hard decoy bags over your shoulders, like you can make it happen. But um, yeah, I'm I guess I'm I'm not bias either way. Like we usually carry them, we sometimes use them,

sometimes we don't. I think they can be a great asset, especially where um, if the birds aren't real callable and you think that that visuals that's gonna work, like, well, we definitely throw them out there nice. So we're gonna talk about weapons in the in the gear that we ultimately use to kill the turkey. You're gonna touch on archery, and then I'm gonna go over just uh, real quick kind of what I use as far as my setup and you know, as far as like patterning and stuff

like that. But you're you're an archery turkey hunter. What do you use? Are using like special broadheads? Are you lightning your setup? Kind of give us, give us the lowdown on an archery setup specifically for turkey. Yeah. The only thing that I change with turkeys is I will put an expandable broadhead on it. Um just seems to I don't know, just it seemed to work a little bit better for me for turkeys. UM, so it opens them up pretty good. I have the Grim Reaper. They

have a white Tail Hybrid. It's like a two I think it's a two and a half inch cutting diameter. UM. That has been a really nice one for me. And they're honestly, they're turkeys are small and they're easy to miss with archery equipment, so UM, I tend to not want a super expensive broadhead up there. So those ones, you know, they're your basic like forty bucks a pack or whatever for three of them. Um, So I snag though,

that's pretty much all I change. Um, I don't do like a big change difference in my archery set up from turkeys to like uh target shooting, you know, like three D season to then going into you know, elk season. I don't really change anything up like that. But the broadhead is something I do change. Gotcha. So you're just using more of what we consider like a big game expandable.

You're not going to like the you know whatever, the turkey guillotines or like these big four inch cutting diam You're you're just sticking with something that's more accurate and smaller expandable. Yeah. Yeah, because honestly, sometimes man like especially if we're doing a running gun archery setup, that's like

way different, more difficult. You're shooting these things at forty yards to um, they're not you know three yards from the from the blind, where I think those guillotines could really be uh, where they're more like it's likely to actually work. Um ye. So yeah, it that expandable seems to work good for me, gotcha, gotcha. Yeah. And then I've I've always felt like turkeys were designed to be shot with a shotgun. So I just I just haven't picked my bow up and taking them yet. But I

really like having like a semi automatic shotgunning. I hunted with a pump forever when UM I first got going, it's what I could afford. I really liked recoil management. UM. Some of these turkey loads UM really kind of thump you, UM when you go to pull the trigger. It's not so much while you're hunting, it's it's more of the patterning and whatnot. But I'm using the weather be currently

great gun. UM. I really I kind of got away from like changing AMMO and tinkering with my setup for a long time because my old gun shot so well. When I got a new gun, I'm like, oh, now we can get a new choke, we can get new ammo. UM did a bunch of research found that Indian Creek seemed to have a great following and like a great UM. You know, they were shooting great patterns and they were really kind of designing for TSS. I know a lot of the guys within the Meater crew were using Carlton

chokes with great success. So I screwed into Indian Creek and then I went to TSS ended up. You know, we used to have like a meat eater had like a five seven eight mix or something, and I ended

up just going with a peer number nine. I wanted more babies, and I didn't have any intention of shooting the past fifty yards and TSS nine is fully capable out to fifty And so that combination of being able to drop down to a three inch magnum instead of a three and a half inch which I was shooting out of my old pump gun, that choke and that pattern, like it is an incredible I've never hunted with the red dot and was able to kind of you know, throw that on, and it's just I almost feel like

it's cheating a little bit, like the gun is just automatic, you know. And I've got the problem of a of a twenty yard bird now of me missing if I don't do everything right. So that's the one downside. Yeah, Yeah, I we're shooting like a I don't know, a six inch circle. It seems like at about twenty, you know, with just a few a few errant babies. But yeah,

there's all kinds of way. I'm not gonna tell you how to hunt but I would say, you know, get comfortable with what turkeys can pick up and seeing like maybe you know your first bird or two with a shotgun, and then once you've kind of got that down and what you can get away with like I'm one of these days, I just need to pick up my bow.

But and then archery hunting, like you had said earlier, having success archery hunting for turkeys outside of a blind is like one of those ultimate, you know, ultimate accomplishments because they've got such good eyesight and getting your bow drawn is incredibly tough. Yeah, it seems like the best time to do it is coming right up when archery season is starting just here in about a week. The twenty fifth, I think is when we open here, they're just all in big groups. So then you got a

ton of hands that are like looking around. So yeah, we uh we locked out with that. I just gotten in a pissing match with the hen and got her to bring the whole crew in. Bye. And then did they did they pick you up when you drew or did were you completely like yep? Yeah, they ended up I'm not joking, man. There were at least twelve hens in that flock, and they were like they were feet

away from us, just pecking at the ground. I don't understand how they didn't see us, because you know, I was on my Leah was sitting down like kind of on her knees but on her butt, and I was just standing up on my knees beside her with a camera and I was almost laughing because they were so close. I was like, how is this even happening? But they ended up, Yeah, they came in. She ended up shooting him at probably fifteen yards maybe just strutted right by us.

We kind of waited until they all got by us before she drew. But yeah, they picked us up when we drew, that's for sure. Yeah, that's cool. That's cool. So Um and then last thing with gear, which um this is gonna be a shameless plug for sure, is calls. Right. You know, everybody when you think of spring turkey hunting,

everybody's got calls in their hand. You know. The whole idea is to interact, and um, you know we we bring we've got our al calls, we've got our crow calls for locators, we've got our meat eater x belps turkey lineup. Um. One thing I just wanted to highlight here, which I feel is worth mentioning is if you haven't checked out like our small batch UM pot calls or our small batch m al hooters. We joined up with

James Harrison and Steve Morgans during this year. UM. I wanted to just build the absolute best sounding, UM, most durable UH Turkey calls we could, and so Steve Morganster knocked it out of the park. UM gave us some recommendations, really tweaked the specs on on some pot calls for us. So we have an aluminum inside an osage, but we went with a lot thicker aluminum than most people use on their calls UM, and that aluminum is just a

smoking call. And then we built a green slate UM inside of a teak pot and teak is just one of those woods that's you know, it's a reason why it's used in marine applications all the time. It's you know, extremely durable, decay resistant, rot resistant UM. And then green slate is is an amazing UM you know surface to

be used. And then UM Steve assembled all of those, tested them all UM and and those those pot calls, in my opinion, are as good as it gets um, and then we joined up with James Harrison to design those Alhooters, which I think at the at the time this uh podcast airs, we're going to be sold out and we hope to have a restock here. But those al calls are just at a different level. Um, they

they're very very good. Um. So yeah, that's kind of the big change, uh, you know, or the additions this year, um in the phelps Turkey lineup, and then um, yeah, if you need to get your calls, um, they are in stock and Turkey season getting close. So in closing, what does one tip you feel would give Turkey hunters

better odds at finding success this year? Uh? You know, from a pure filling your tag success standpoint, don't be afraid to switch things up kind of like I was talking about if if they're not talking for some reason or another, like it just you might not be able to change that. So I think a combination I don't be afraid to change things up and patience. Yeah, that can both really help. Yeah, and that's a great tip. Like as much as especially me going out there, it's

to use the calls. But one time we just hit it wrong in Kansas where we could see birds, and we were hitting in with every locator we had. They had no intention of ever making a sound. Well, it's like the hens were feeding down to us, and it's like, well, I'm not opposed to shooting one when it walks by us, right, And so it's just like changing your strategy. Like we could have probably sat there and called and we would have scared them off, or those hands would have changed

their pattern. But it's like all right, well, just you almost have to play with what the rules that you're given, right or the playing field that you're given, Like, this is what they're going to give us. We've only got so much time in so many days. Um, I'm not opposed to shooting when when it walks by. So um, it's just outsmarting them. But yeah, be patient, um, and and change your strategy. Don't just go in with you know,

one way's got to work. Yep, Yeah, absolutely. I think that's where, like you know, your ground blind can come in. Just being able to chill there and be a little bit more comfortable and move around a little bit more while you're being patient can help um a little bit. But you know, then there's there's certainly people that just want to shoot, they want to have that interaction and they're just going to move around until they find the interaction.

I mean really no different to Helk you know. Um so yeah, I guess it kind of depends what you want. But yeah, yeah, Well we really appreciate you having or having you on the show today, Jordan. How can people find out more about you, you know, through social media or you know gear Talk podcast or where they can they can find you? Yeah, so Instagram, it's just at Jordan dot bud on Instagram. And then I've got a YouTube channel as well. I've been kicking out some stuff

that we've been filming on our fall hunts. So that's just Jordan budd On on YouTube. And yeah, the gear Talk podcast, I find it wherever you get your podcasts. All right, perfect, Thanks for coming on. Good luck out there in Nebraska this year, and we'll we'll touch base with you here middle of the season and see how you're doing. Yeah, I appreciate you. Jason Things