Ep. 32: Locating Gobblers and Turkey Strategies with James Harrison

building them and designing them for over fourteen years. In addition to being an amazing contest caller and call builder, James knows his stuff when it comes to hunting turkeys, which is the whole reason we have him here on the podcast. Welcome to the show, James. Hey, how's it going, Jason, How are things going there? Excellent? You know what, It's seventy degrees today, it's a sunny so definitely getting me

in the mood for some spring turkey season. Spring peepers are out peeping, and I guarantee it's keys we're probably gobbling. This morning, I woke up, it was beautiful out. I hated to go to work. I was like dog on it. I'd like to be out of scouting birds. What do the populations look like in Missouri this year? You guys have a good hatch or is it down up from last year? Well, you know around the house here we had we've had good hatches the last three years in

a row. So I mean you're just right around the house here is it has been really really good. Uh. We do manage. I'm lucky that I know all the farmers around the house, so we all manage for predators, and we do habitat and stuff like that. So that makes a you know in my area there that makes huge difference southern Missouri and some spots that we hunt a lot, Uh, they're they're kind of hitting miss You'll get some pockets that got good birds and then you'll

hit others. Ah, there ain't no birds area. You know, it's just been bad hatches, you know, due to weather and stuff like that. So it's a you know, it's kind of funny. You'll be one spot and then you'll drive ten miles away and they'll be loaded up full of turkeys. And you'll go to another spot maybe just down the road, and uh that used to carry and hold a lot of birds and there's just there ain't that many there. So gotcha, So hit or miss, but

in your your area pretty good right now. Yes, Turkey turkeys are one of those species that are they're awesome with their life expectancy of you know, three and a half to four years max. You know, they can definitely get older than that, but on typical so you can change. You know, we're we're you know, the last twenty or thirty years, Missouri seems to be going on a downhill trend. It's like a couple of good springs, you know, things going your way, and it can rebound, you know, fairly quickly.

Compared to some of the other species, you know, winter kills and stuff we have out west here, it seems like it takes a lot longer to rebound and get your numbers back. So it's good to hear that. Um, you have had a few good hatches in a row there. Yeah, it's it's been good. We've been seeing a lot of jake's uh for last three years. We've had good jake numbers and two year olds and a lot of the farms that we do that we do hunt and stuff like that. We manage it pretty tight. We may only

take one bird off of a farm. The farm here by the house that uh, I've been watching really close and we've had under management. We didn't even kill a bird off of it last year. So just because we the age structure. There was a bunch of two year olds in there, which is great, you know, they're movie stars full fans usually get shot, you know, but uh,

they were breeding. We had a lot of hens, so we just kind of let that farm set and uh, you know, we got the luxury to do that, and we we hunt a ton of private I mean a public ground down south of us. So it's all timber, big hardwoods. Uh, you know pretty much. I think right behind right below the house. About an hour we got like ninety eight thousand acres of public ground to hunting. Then it's all all like I said, it's all timbers. So we go down there and chase birds all the time,

and we really enjoy it. So that kind of takes the pressure off of our birds here by the house to just kind of let them do their thing. Yeah. Yeah, it's a little bit of your backgrounds, a little bit of private hunting, a little bit of public hunting. You know, out here in the West, we we do a lot of public majority public But then when I get to go back to Kansas and whatnot, get to do some private and it's it's it's fun to compare and contrast and kind of use a different skill set on on both.

So you have that, you know, well rounded. You just got home from the NABTF National Convention down there in Nashville, Tennessee. I just got back from the Pacific Northwest Sportsman Show there in Portland, Oregon. I I envy your location compared to mine, for sure. Yeah, Portland's not the not the greatest place, but it's got great customers. Um, you know, I would call them friends. Now at this point, it's it's kind of our back backyard show. But I think,

you know, you can attest to it. Even the people we've seen here in the Pacific Northwest. People are starting to get excited about Turkey. Um, you know, it's right around the corner. So how was the convention down there in Nashville. It was bigger than it ever was. I mean, the seems like the people are really coming out. I think I haven't heard any solid numbers, but I know there was I'm almost one hundred percent and positive it was over sixty thousand people went through the show or

it's going to be really close to that. But I mean people were there, they were you know, they were spending money, they were out shopping, they were they were doing what they're supposed to do, and I mean we were having a great time and uh, you know, positive feedback. The weather was nice, so that always helps. You know,

everybody got out and stuff like that. So, uh, you know, the NWTF convention every year just seems like it keeps getting better and better and better and growing, and uh, you know, hats off to those guys were putting on a heck of a convention. You know. The calling contest end of it was up, probably record numbers of guys in the contest. Uh you know, vendors vendors was up, you know, so it was it was good all the

way around. You know, the custom Call building shows there where they do the duck calls and stuff like that, and the Turkey calls and everything, and uh, I think that was a record this year too as far as people entering NATS. So overall it was a home run for sure, you know. And they have it at the Opera Land Hotel down there and convention center, so it's all contained in one building. So I mean, if you're

staying there, that's awesome. You never have to Once you pull in in park, you don't leave for the next three days. You're just there, you know. So, uh, it's a it's an enjoyable, joyable time for sure. Yeah. You mentioned you know, record attendants coming off of the Western Hunt Expo and out of the the Pacific Northwest. Uh. Everybody talks about these uh you know, recessions and stuff we're in.

But if if you had to judge based on the sportsman and people at these shows, you know, spending money,

you wouldn't you wouldn't know anything about it. Seems like, you know, either people are on fire, they're passionate, they're just they're showing up and and um, you know, I've always I've always kind of thought that, you know, hunters were a little bit you know, recession proof because they're gonna budget, they're gonna do what they need to do to make sure that you know, they they can enjoy the outdoors and have the right equipment and so um

oh yeah, yeah. And I think COVID too. You know, when COVID hit a lot of guys that uh, you know had to stay at home, you know, or work for home and stuff like that, and everything was shut down. So I think a lot of guys you know, got back into hunting again and they you know, they realize what they've been missing all that time, so they just picked it back up and they're just you know what, hey, this is we enjoy doing it, and they continue to do it. They just didn't go back to work and uh,

you know, we'll drop it. So I think that really, I mean, take a bright point out of a out of a terrible situation. I think covid really made the sportsman and uh, you know, fishing industry everything. I think it made it stronger because more people got out there and started participating and uh and are still continuing to do it. So I mean that's great all the way

around for everybody. Yeah, for sure, for sure. So we're gonna jump into the first segment here on the cutting of the Distance, where we take listener questions and if you have any questions for us here on the show for me and my guests, please make sure to email CTD app phelps gamecalls dot com or send us a social message. We'll do our best to get these questions on the show and see if myself. Our experts can answer them. So the first question for today is and

it's kind of right up your wheelhouse. I went and kind of cherry picked these for you. I'm new to turkey hunting, and I'm curious why you would located turkey without turkey calls. That's a that's a good question. I get that one. I'll ask a lot too. And uh, the reason, you know, the main reason to located turkeys to get that bird to gobble at you so you know his location so you can go set up on

him to hunt, hone him and stuff like that. I'm a real stickler about not turkey calling to a bird until I'm ready to set up on him and actually start calling him in to shoot him. So that's why I use the al hooters, the crow calls, the you know, the kyote howlers, stuff like that, because I want that turkey to be gobbling at a sound, but I don't want him to be associating that turkey because a lot of times I've seen guys set up and this is me too. I've done it before in the past. I'm

guilty of it. I've set up and I hadn't. I didn't get a bird goblin. So I started getting a mouth call or a box call out and I started cutting at him, and I got one of gobble at me, and I was like, okay, he's over there, you know, so I'm gonna go to him. And as I'm going to him, he was actually coming to me. So I just lumped him and spook the bird or if there's a bird around, it's being quiet, and I'm turkey calling to him and he never gobbles, and I go on

and move on. Then that bird shows up at my location and he's just he's he's confused, like, okay, there was a hen here, she's not here. Now I don't know what happened. And uh so I try not to turkey call until I am set up on the bird and actually ready to call him in and shoot him. Yeah, and uh that's the same as me. I think, you know the same as elk cutting out here out west. We will locate you got a kind of you know, elkdo shot gobble unfortunately, so you do have to locate

him with a bugle. But it's very similar. Like I've always said, I think the biggest mistake is like bugling your way in and letting him know you're coming. Um. Similar to turkeys, you don't want to have to give up your location until you have to. So if you can paint that, if you can, you know, get his location without having to, you know, paint the picture that you are a hen turkey somewhere on the on the landscape.

I think you're putting the you know, you're kind of stacking the deck in your favor a little bit, because then you can go silent um and all of a sudden, when you are set up within close proximity UM or whatever whatever you know, tactics or you're going to use UM, you can then you know, become a hen turkey and do the calling. So, you know, very much like you, we we try to always locate UM, you know out west UM. You know, we we tend to use and I'll get into this in a little bit, UM we

tend to use. You know. You try to time your your locators with with what's working, you know, So in the morning we'll go to Ala. In the evening we'll

go to al or Kyle. I don't like to use KYO early in the morning because I don't want to let that turkey know, you know, if I do locate that there's a kyote running around and may you know, I don't know if turkeys think that deeply about things, but in my mind is like, well, if there's a kyote on the ground, that turkey is going to be a little less hesitant or a little more hesitant then,

you know, coming in. And then for us out west, um, you know crow and then the pilliated woodpecker, maybe even more so than these other ones, Um seems to just work. I don't know if it's that sharp, high pitched, you know, rapid sound that just kind to get them going. Um. But yeah, we've been using a lot of affiliated woodpecker out here on the Merriams and it seems to have great um. You know, it's just got a great response and it carries, it carries to some of this big

canyon country. And then there's all the other things we could use, you know, kyote, peacock, goose, duck, We even use elk bugles. And you always hear the same reference too. I just slam my truck door, I hunk my horn you know when I get out, and those work. But I think I'd just just being a woodsman and wanting to fit on the landscape. I think, you know, using natural animal sounds as part of the game we love to play, right, Oh, oh for sure, Yeah, I want to.

You know, I try to when I'm hunting, hunting and going to located bird I try to be as realistic with my calling, even on my locator calls, as possible. So and I was talking to a guy this weekend

about that the show. I said, if I can get my owlhooter out and I can get that, get a you know, hit a few notes on the owlhooter, and I can get four or five owls to start hooting back at me, then I can just be quiet and listen to the owls because if that, you know, if another owl's on a different ridge, he's carrying farther than my sounds carrying, so he's actually helping me locate more turkeys and carry the distance. Same way with a crow or anything like that. So I try to keep it

as realistic as possible. And you know, I mean like in the mornings, I like to do a crow in an owl kind of like you're talking about where you guys are at midday, I'll hit the uh, you know, the hawk screen peleated woodpecker Kyle Hollen. I saved that until they are up on roost, and you know, I know them. Berger actually up on the roost. And the reason being had a great hunt in Kansas a couple of years ago, and I was on a bird and had it was a galber had three hens with him,

and I was laying there just watching him. He was gonna flyp to roost. I was gonna get set up far him that next morning. You know, if he came into range that evening, I was gonna shot him. You know, we get hunt all day out there. And uh, I could tell by the way he was acting he wasn't. He was just gonna stay with him him. So I was just gonna watch him fly up, get a good bearing on him, and slide in the next morning and uh, here comes my oldest son, Cody, driving down the road.

I'm I'm five six hundred yards off the road. He doesn't even know I'm in there on this chunk of ground, and he stops a truck and he starts kyote Hollen and he's probably six hundred yards for me and the turkey, and that that Galbert literally just popped out a strut, popped his wings in and all three of them took off going up the ridge side and was gone for the evening, so I never knew where they got to to go to roost. So I was like dag, um, you know. So that's the the kyote hollen works great.

It covers a lot of ground. Just make sure when you do something like that that then birds are definitely on roost that way, they're safe and up in a tree because kayo's definitely I mean, turkey's their main goal in life. They're gonna try to survive and uh, everything tries to eat a turkey pretty much. So I think they definitely associate. You know, they know what noises or what you know, they hear kyote, they know that's danger. So yep, yep, I'm I'm in the same camp that

you are that. Uh, those kyle halls work great, but they're only a you know, after dark locator, you know, and uh, make sure those birds feel comfortable, you know, and during the during the morning, even during the afternoon. I don't want them to think that there's a you know, a kyote running around close to them. Um. So that's a good segue into this next one. Um. You know, we just mentioned the plethora of calls. You know, you could have crow, I'll woodpecker, kyote, peacock, goose, you know,

duck calls, elk, bugles, whatever you mean. You could you could literally fill up a vest and have way more locator calls than you could have turkey calls on you if you carried everything. But what locators? Uh? What locator calls should I carry with me? And this was a listener question, but you know, what's what's a good coverage? You know, what's a I guess what kind of covers all your bases? Um? And what do you carry for locator calls? Oh? That's that's a great question there, and

I can I can honestly sum it up. You know, I hunt a lot of big timber, you know, especially on public grounds places like that where we're going in there a long ways and going you know, four or five miles in and stuff like that. So and when you're in and it's probably just like you are out west, when you're in that big vast country. If you can't find in your turn keys to hunt, you're gonna be doing a lot of walking or a lot of glass and a lot of time wasted just trying to find birds.

So I carry. Usually I have my al hooter with me, I have a crow call, I carry a kyote holler with me. I usually carry a peliated woodpecker and a hawk scream, And so I carry several locator calls just because if I can't find my turkeys that I'm trying to, you know, to hunt, then it's just making my job that much harder. So I literally probably carry I I'm one of the guys. I probably carry more locator calls than I do turkey calls, so you know, I you know,

it's just all the way down the line. So good al hooter, good crow call, peleiad woodpecker, hawks scream, kyote holler, you know, let's and you can get into goose calls, you know, like we're around the house where we're at, we don't have a ton of geese, so you know, you can hit a goose call and they may not ever answer it. So then I got a couple of places I hunt that's loaded up with geese, So I mean they'll hear geese a lot and they'll gobble at it,

you know, So I really trying to hunt that. You know, you're terrain in that area as far as yea, yeah, what's what's natural for the area. All right. So with that said, we've already kind of talked about not using turkey calls. When is there a situation or if you know there are turkeys around, is there at a point where you're like, all right, these locators aren't working, they

don't care. Will you switch to a turkey call, do some loud cutting or some yelping, or do you do you only only use that for calling turkeys in once you know where they're at the time, I'll start to switch over and use the turkey calls. If I'm in an area and I've scouted at a bunch and I

know there's birds in there. So let's take, for instance, I'm on a couple ridges and I know I got three long beards hanging in those ridges, and you know, it's a pretty big area, but I know them verger there, and it's getting mid day and it's kind of just starting to wind down. You know, everything's gotten woods have kind of gotten quiet. I may go ahead then and hit a call cut a few times, but at that point I'm pretty much setting up and gonna stay for

a while. You know, I'm gonna find me a real good location that I can see good, and I'm gonna set up up, go ahead, get ready to roll, and then I'm gonna hit the calls, and then I'm gonna sit there and wait for you know, half an hour forty five minutes, and then I may hit another series of calls and then you know, wait again for another half hour forty five minutes and just kind of like

wait for the birds to do their thing. And a lot of times that works out great because I may call two or three times I've had birds coming quiet on me, a bunch that you know, didn't gobble at all. And then also, you know, you're sitting there in thirty four or five minutes, you know, an hour, just doing your thing, and then you'll you'll hear another bird gobble in a different direction or something. So then at that

point you can pick up and go from there. But yeah, if I know I'm gonna stay in an area and I know there's birds in the area, then I'll be more apt to grab a turkey call and sit down and just set up. And basically what you're doing is blind calling to them, you know, kind of like you do a deer. You're just know they're in the area. You're just hoping to make contact with them and get them to come in. Yeah, and what kind of led me on to doing this. We're a few situations where

we knew there were birds around. We're on a you know, a good piece of property or a good area over there, and you know you're locate and locate and locate, hitting crow, hitting you know whatever, you got, pillated woodpecker. Nothing's answering, right, But then you can visually like see the turkeys, like you know, hind up or they're with and you're like, well, I can I know they can hear me. I know

that I can see them, and they're not answering. But yet you sit down and hind call, and then you could you know, we've we've pulled over, you know, pulled over one of the you know, subbordinate toms, or we've pulled over one of the two year olds, and it's like all right, that's where like, all right, turkey calling may be beneficial versus you know, just sit there cranking on locators the whole time, you know, And that's like

you mentioned right off the bat on that question. If you know they're birds in the area and you're not just you know, I would say it's not cold calling, but it's not necessarily hot calling either. It's kind of that you know, lukewarm calling where you know there's birds around, but they're not directly answering you, Like I feel that's the time where we can start to try to locate um with our with our hind calls. But also at that point you're almost SIMMI trying to call them in

from that location at that point. Yeah. Correct. And it's just like fishing in a farm pond, you know, the fisher there. You just gotta figure out what they're biting on that day and h hopefully you know, get one and get one to bite. Same way with the turkeys, we know they're in the area, we know they're you know, probably have hens with them, you know, you know, and that's where and and we may talk about this a little bit later, and I'm sure we will. As scouting

is key. You know, the more you've spend scouting the birds and knowing the turkeys and uh going and you know, studying them and knowing how many birds is on your piece of property or where they're at, that that's just all the you know that that benefits you so much because then you know when you get into an area. Okay, I've had two birds in this area, offspringer, I've had one bird and a couple of jakes or something like that. So the more you scout, the better advantage. You have

to really pinpoint your birds and getting them. And you know, when I'm scouting birds too, and I'll bring this up on the on the topic, when I'm scouting for birds before season, I leave my turkey calls at home because I don't want to. I'm more than nebody love to hear a turkey gobble, and I want to fire him up and get that bird gobbling and hammering and doing everything that you want him to do. But before season,

I don't want to call to that bird. I don't I want him just as calm and no hunting pressure. It's kind of like on deer hunting. I don't want them bucks to know I'm in the area that I don't even want them to know I exist. So I kind of treat my turkeys like I do my deer. I get on the outside fringes, hit them with an owl who to hit them with a crow call whatever, get them to gobble, and then I just sit there and listen to them and learn and see where they're

going to. You know, if I can get them, If I can get birds that are roosting on a certain ridge and every morning they'll fly down and go to a watering hole or someplace to a creek to get water, well that's just giving me the advantage that I know the next morning I need to be where the water

is and just set up on him. And if I hen call, maybe I'm off a hundred yards from them, but they know a hens there, buy it, They're gonna come over and skirt right to me, you know, and they're gonna get the hen and get to the water at the same time. So scouting and just paying attention to listen, you know, that's that's the key. Key key, key, yep, yep.

All right, Well, thanks for answering those questions for us, James, and once again, if you have any questions for us here, me or my guests here on the cutting the Distance, um, please submit your questions to CTD at Phelps Gamecalls dot com. We'll do our best to get him answered. So on the day's episode, I wanted to dive into your tactics and strategies and what you use to be successful year

and in year out. When it comes to turkey hunting, we mentioned it earlier, you know, Ben in Missouri, you saw the heydays of the nineties, the early two thousands, you know, where turkey numbers were way up. Um. You know, you guys had maybe some of the best turkey hunting

in the world, you know, in Missouri. Um, and now it seems, you know, I've heard anywhere from you know, fifty to sixty five percent reduction in turkey numbers here in Missouri from the from the from the peak, which is an ideal, but it also probably forces you guys to you know, be a little more cautious, become a little bit better to you know, So there is some I don't want to say there's any good that comes from it, but it forced you guys to, like, you know,

sharpen your skills a little bit and home your approaches, and you learn a lot from that. You know, when there isn't a bird around every corner. Um, we're still kind of in that that big upswing here in Washington where we have more birds than we know what to do with. But um, you know, once the predators kind of figure them out. I'm sure we'll be in in your guy's a situation. UM. So yeah, your experienced turkey you know you and your son's um. You know, Cody Carter,

they you guys get it done every year. I'm really excited to talk to you guys. See what you do, UM, the same and then maybe different than than what we do. UM. I wanted to just give a little background before we jump in our conversation, kind of how we met and kind of you know, what we've got going on for people that may or may not know. We have a

mutual buddy Chris Parrish. UM. You know, I got to know him almost ten years ago building Turkey Calls, went out and visited him, and we've stayed in touch, you knows, as Phelps Game Calls has grown and and as he's you know, changed careers and did some stuff and we were able to meet you and Steve On we were on a Kansas Turkey hunt and you guys came out for a day and I don't even know what the

whole idea was. We were just kind of meeting up and maybe bus and a little bit maybe we had I don't know at that point if we'd even decided to do anything together. We were just going to meet up and talk and chat there and maybe film some maybe we had decided to do that. But we met up in Kansas and just I think I speak for everybody here at Phelps Game calls like it was one of those things We're just getting to know you and Steve a little bit, and I don't care how good

of colors you guys are. I don't care how good of call makers you guys are. Like one thing that we always looked for first is U you know, quality of people. We can we can find all kinds of guys that can call, we can find all kinds of people that can build calls, but you know, quality of people. And remember me and Dirt chatted a couple of days, you know, he stayed an extra day and filmed you guys, and like, hey, these guys are as salt of the earth.

And so yeah, we met, we had a few phone calls, met there in Kansas and then um, you know, just been kind of rolling on projects ever since then. So really excited to have you, you know, you guys on board, and we're doing some cool things and we have some

cool things coming in the future. So um yeah, we've we've worked on you know, our beta and our our Omega deer calls, you know, with you kind of giving some feedback and then um, you know, the Harrison Hooter and Harrison Hooter Pro were kind of all your ideas. So we're really stoked to be able to bring those, you know, to market through the Phelps Game Calls brand.

And uh yeah, that's that's enough of a plug. Just want to give a little background story that I just wanted to give a little background story on how you know, uh yeah, Elk Hunter from and a callmaker from Southwest Washington hooked up with some you know, some some great

guys from Missouri and are doing some collabs together. Oh yeah, it was great and you know and Chris is uh Chris Parrish is I want to thank for that because I've known Chris since I've been you know, basically a teenager, you know, in the Turkey calling circuit and stuff like that, and uh, he knows I build out who's in you know, into deer grunners and stuff like that, and then he got with me and it's like, hey man, you need to build me some deer grunners and stuff. And uh,

I need show some of these guys. And at the time he was talking about you, you you know, showing deer grunners and you know, talking about how Hooters and I constantly, you know, I'm always trying to build a better mousetrap, I guess so to speak. You know, I'm never satisfied with good. I always want to keep take something to the next level and keep going. And then, uh, when he brought up your guys, you know, Phelps and you and Dirk and everybody, I was, man, I was so

excited to meet everybody. And then and it was the same thing. I remember the first conversation me and you had on the phone. I I hung up and I talked to my wife and I said, Jason is the type of person that is literally is as passionate about building calls and a down Hooters person as I am. And I said, this is going to be phenomenal. And uh, ever since it's been, it's been absolutely Uh, you know, it's been awesome. It's been a whirldwin. You know, we

went out to Kansas, met you guys. It was great, and then from there we ain't looked back. You know, we're we're we're full steam ahead. You know this is Uh, deer Gunners did great, the owhooters are doing great. So it's a blast. Yeah. Yeah, looking to do some new stuff in twenty twenty five. So excited, excited to have you on, not to not to board the listeners with our our our, our, our backstory. But well we'll jump

into some of the questions I have for you. Um, you know, some of these are similar questions I've asked past guests. Um, but yeah, just kind of get your

take on it. And uh, like I say, it's give our listeners kind of the chance to find where some of you, you know, you expert you know turkey hunters, guys that get it done, know your stuff, kind of where you guys are similar, and then maybe little nuggets where you guys are different, and give them kind of enough tools and their toolbox to go out and uh, you know, try different things that they found successful. So one question I always ask is how early do you

get to the Turkey Woods? And I know you'd mentioned earlier we're gonna talk about scouting a little bit and if that affects it, go ahead and kind of add

that in. But um, you know, we we've always balanced back and forth on getting out, you know, at four o'clock waiting for everything to to come alive versus you know, let's just hang back and get to the best bandage on the entire property and then we've got like a good snapshot on what it's all over the property and you know how to kind of give us a little a little um, you know, insight into how earlier is

James Harrison sitting under a tree? And then um, you know, how does that affect if you don't have a bird rooster or do you have a bird rooster plus all you're scouting. Well, you know that's that's a good question. Early for me is I will get in as early as I have to get in. I mean, that's kind of vague, but most of the time I am well at where I'm gonna be hunting at an hour to an hour and a half early. Maybe not up against

a tree, but I'll be at my location. And just for the fact that you know, if I'm crossing fields or if I'm going through timber and I got to walk in on a bunch of public ground and I have a half mile or a mile trek or whatever I want to get in there super early. That way, if I do make some noise getting through there by the time daylight hits and then birds start to goblin,

that that's a noise they have done forgot about. I mean, there's a lot of things in the woods that make noise all night long, between deer and you know, possums and armadillas, whatever. There's always something making noise. So as long as you're not doing it right at daylight when them birds are waking up, and you're you know, relatively quiet about it, you know, you can get away with a lot of stuff. But I get in. I'm an

early guy. I like getting in early. If I have to take a nap beside a tree and sleep for half an hour or forty five minutes, I'm fine with it. I don't mind at all. I'd much rather be early than late, because lates when you get caught, and lates when you start rushing and doing doing things that that spook birds, you know, crossing fields when it's starting and break daylight and the birds are roosted on the edge of the fields, or if you're in big hard timbers.

You know, I think a big mistake guys making timber situations is they try to get too close to them birds. And I'm a two hundred pound guy, so when I'm walking in dry leaves, I sound like a two hundred pound guy. And if I'm gonna try to get fifty sixty seventy eighty yards on a bird and set up, it's not gonna happen without that bird not knowing I'm there. So the earlier I can slide in on a bird and get set up in his general location, the better off I'm gonna be. Now that being said, you know,

I'll throw this in a little bit here. I'll jump ahead a little bit. If I am in a situation like that and I get there super early and I get set up in the bird start goblin, and they're not where I want to be, and I cannot get to them without spooking or letting them know him there, I let them go ahead and fly down and start their morning off, and then at that point I'll get up and circle and put the move on him, kind of like you know, it'd be the same as an elk.

You know, you know that you know where he's at, you just don't have a good way to get to him without booger and him, So you just let him make the first It's just a game of chess. You just got You know, the biggest thing is patience and time with these turkeys. And you know, turkeys don't wear watches. I've said it all along. They don't know it's Saturday at eight o'clock and you got to be at work at nine o'clock. So you're trying to cram a hunt in.

Just take your time and get there plenty early. I love getting in way before daylight. That way, I know I'm not spooking nothing. Yeah. Oh, and you're opinion, You know, you brought up a good point, not getting through fields or open areas. You know, we always call it that gray light where it's not dark, it's not quite daylight. In your opinion, if the turkeys aren't gobbling yet, are you okay to kind of get through that field or

are you risking them seeing you? And then like, how how long is a turkey's memory on when they're on the roofs. You know, I've heard people say, oh, we can get through there. You know, they might, we might bug them up, they might hear us, but they'll forget

by time they fly down. And in my opinion. It's just it's hard to imagine that they're going to forget that there's something that just walked, you know, towards their tree or they're close, and so I've always been you know, similar like you said on ELK Coney, I'd rather go way around or you know, for us, it's wind more than eyesight. But I'd rather just never get smelled than risk it. Um, how much can you get away with during that gray light? And is a turkey gonna remember

what they just saw? I think it varies per bird and hunting pressure, you know, like around the house here we have a lot of cattle farms. So I think if you're a big object and you're moving in the field in that gray light, I think them turkey's probably don't pay much as attention. You know, they don't. They ain't really just registering as a threat because they hear

that stuff constantly at night and stuff. But I still if it's a gray area, man, that's once again, I try to make sure I get to my spot before it ever starts. To get to that point. That way I know I'm safe, no questions asked, because turkeys will I mean a lot of times you've had guys walk through the field and he's like, man, that bird was gobbling good and when he pitched down, he pitched down completely the other direction. Well, there's a good chance he

might have seen you. He might not have been spooked, but he knew you wasn't correct or you wouldn't you didn't belong there, So he's definitely not gonna fly down to you and check you out. You know, turkeys are one thing about turkeys, they're not curious creatures. They don't stick around to find out very long. So I try to give them zero you know, I don't want to

give them any advantages. So you know, and another thing too while we're talking on that, as far as a gray light, I go into an area to rooster bird or to locate a turkey in the morning. When I go to alhu, man, plant yourself up against a big tree or a backdrop to alhoot, just because if a bird's close and you hit him with a alhoot or anything and he wheels around in gobbles and he looks right at you, and you're a six foot guy that you know that's an awful big owl. You know that

bird's gonna know something's up. Where if you're up against a tree and you're more or less hid, you're gonna get away with a lot more stuff. So I always anytime I stopped to call, whether it be a turkey call or a locator call, I really try to have myself in a situation where if I got to hit the deck and sit down real quick, I can just slide right into a spot and disappear without spooking anything. Yeah,

that's a great point. Don't don't go locate from out in the middle of the wide open where everything can see if they look that way. So, what's your typical morning looks like when you don't have a bird roosted? If you either you know, didn't have a chance to roost the night before, or you know, maybe it's a it's a farm or a piece of ground that the turkeys, you know, roosting multiple spots. Kind of, what's your strategy?

Are you gonna GetUp on a high point, are you gonna go to where you think they are and then you know, walk around the property kind of what's your typical strategy when you don't have a bird roosted? Well, and that depends too with me on if you know what farm. It is. If it's farms around the house here that I know really well, and I've got a long history with the farms and the turkey's on them, I always got general areas where they're gonna be at.

So I got a real good idea. If I don't hear a bird, or if I don't roost one the night before and a lot of times around the house, our birds will not hardly gobble in the evening, not like out in Kansas and Nebraska and stuff like that. You know, we for every ten times we go out to rooster turkey, we might get them to gobble twice, you know. So I mean I don't put a lot of stock in roosting birds at night. I do a

lot of listening at night, you know. I would go out and listen and listen farm to fly up and maybe gobble. But I mean, I just if I don't hear one gobble, it's not the end of the world. In my book, I'm just like, oh, well, we'll just catch them in the morning. But if it's a ground that I don't know a lot about, like timber and spots that I'm going I usually try to get to an advance in point, you know, I check, you know, I check my on X or my hunt stand apps, look at the top o kind of get an idea.

I even go to the point where I check which way the wind's blowing that night, and usually then birds will try to get out of that wind. So I think, Okay, if the wind's been blowing strong coming out of the north, and birds are probably gonna be on a south facing hillside, you know, down off of it a little bit, not catching that wind all night long. So um, I really kind of look at stuff like that, and uh, I try to stay high. I literally I don't mind staying

low on a bird. I just really look for places that I can get and move on because man, a lot of times and a lot of this stuff that I'm talking about and your listeners are listening is I've done all this stuff, and I've made all these mistakes, and I've screwed up countless times. So I've just learned over the years what to do, so you don't do that. So I just basically try to get it to a

spot where I can have an advantage and move. So if a turkey does gobble and he's I'm not in a POSI and I can get you know, I can't set up right there and call to him. I want to be able to move on that bird and get in a position that I can. So I try not to get myself too high up on a knob where I'm kind of stuck up there, or in a spot where I can't back out of without that bird spooking me, so,

you know, without me spooking him. So that's that's the key, And a lot of that's just scout, like I said, goes back to the basic scouting scouting scouting. The more you know, and the more even better know you're terrained, the better off you're gonna be. Yeah, And then you know, you guys hunting primarily Easterns out there versus US hunting you know Merriams. Rio's, um, it's like a completely different game.

You know, those Merriams will gobble more time on the you know, more times at that nighttime roots, and they will throughout the whole day, which to me is crazy. Versus when we do go to Kansas the east side and hunt you know, um Easterns, they won't barely gobble at night like you had mentioned. You know, you won't get him to roost near as much and you go back in the morning and the day and things, you're right there. They just didn't make a peep as they

flew up that night. So yep. Yeah, different subspecies are just like you know why they all are all turkeys. They they've got different little um, you know, quirks and and different things that work. Now I'm gonna kind of break down the day. Um. You know, one this is where I really struggled kind of as a as a new turkey hunter. Is different strategies I should be using throughout the day. Um. So we talked a little bit about, you know, hunting the roost, but what is what's your

go to on the roost? You know, you are you getting one hundred yards one hundred and fifty yards from the tree? Are you calling? Are you just sitting there? Like, what's your what's your best strategy when you've got a bird in the roost and you're you know exactly what trees in Okay, that's a you know a lot of it as far as distance wise really is determined by

the terrain that you're in. You know, it could be a really uh early spring and there's not a lot of foliage so you just can't get that close to that bird where you know, give it three weeks and it really greens up, you can get in a lot closer on that bird. I try to stay back, you know, my ideal situation would be seventy five to one hundred yards. I want to I want to that bird to be able to hear me and know where I'm at. But I don't want that bird to just be able to

look from the roost right down where I'm at. So I kind of stay off of him just a little bit. So there's a little bit of curiosity right there for that bird, so he has to come check me out. You know. I think a lot of times guys will get close in on a bird and that bird will be up on the roost and he'll be gobbling and you're trying to tree call to him, and that turkey's literally looking down there and there's like, man, there was no hint there last night. There was I don't see

nothing this morning, you know. So a lot of times they'll pitch down and go the other direction because something just doesn't add up. So I try to stay seventy five one hundred yards off. Just really depends on the terrain. I'll soft talk to him, just a little bit of tree yelping. Once I get that bird to gobble at me, a lot of times I will shut down and just let him do his goblin. I always carry a wing with me. That's one thing I carry a lot, you know,

I do a lot of you know. And I'll take that wing and when I know that bird's up there and it's getting closer to fly down time, I'll take and hit that wing on my leg and coming down like I just flew out of the tree. Because you can't get no more realistic than an actual set of wings coming out of a tree. I mean, that's what turkeys do every morning, every night. So when that bird hears that, he automatically thinks that's a turkey. So you don't have to be a great caller to kill turkeys,

you know. And that's that's, you know, just how it is. But if you can keep it as realistic as a real turkey, you're gonna kill a lot more So when he hears that wing, that takes that level of realism up to him. Where Okay, that hen just flew out of the ground, off out of the tree, unto the ground,

and now she's on the ground. So a lot of times he'll gobble at that, and when he does, I may hit him with this, you know, a couple of notes, you up, just you know, just something to lay you know, him still there, and then I just shut up and let him fly down and do a thing. And most of the time off the you know, now that changes.

He may have hens with him right in there. And then at that point, you know, I try to get them hens talking and uh, you know, try to get them hens to feed into me and work in my way. You know, a lot of times that will lead hen she'll fly down and pull him right away from you because she doesn't want the competition. So if a situation

like that arises, I just doug them turkeys. You know, I let him get out of sight, and I just kind of you know, if that's the only game, if that's the only turkey I've heard, and that's the only game in town, I just shadow him until I can get to a spot where I can either ag get in front of him or you know, I've followed birds all morning long until the hens finally, you know, we're bread and left and went to nest and then I'll work on him from there. So I definitely stay in

the game if I can. You know, if I got time, or if that bird stays on my property, you know, he may, he may. A lot of times guys will hunt him and they'll fly down and get on another guy's property. So what do you do at that point? Well, if I know that's the only bird there, I'm gonna up and wait on him. If I know there's multiple birds, I may back out of there, not pressure him, because I think one of the biggest mistakes you can do on any of them birds is spook them. And that's uh, yeah,

that's it. You know, Like I said before, they don't have they don't tell time, and they don't know you got to be at work by nine o'clock or ten o'clock in the morning. And I don't want to rush a hunt. And as bad as I as bad as I want to shoot the turkey, I don't want to rush a situation and spook a turkey or make a bad shot on him, because then you just you just took your whole game and you lost. So you know, then you got to go find another bird on another

piece of property. And you know, when I was growing up as a kid. We didn't have a ton of turkeys right around my house. So the ones you did here, you had to make sure you were you know, you had to hunt him. It may take you an extra day or two to get him killed, but you didn't spook him because once you spooked him, it was checkmate. Yeah, you had to capitalize on the few birds you had, so on the roost, real quick decoy or no, or depends,

you know. If it's early season, I'm h and I am field hunting, I run decoys, especially during youth season, so I can pull them birds attention off of me and the youth or me, you know, just me. You know, if I'm field hunting, I'll run a decoy. If I'm timber hunting, I rarely packed decoys. I'm pretty much try to get in a terrain situation where that birds got to fly down and walk up and when he walks up in to look for the hen, he's within range.

So that's that's my goal. You know, catch him over a little crest in the hill, or over a little knob or you know, a bend in a logging road or something like that, so when he walks around it I can shoot him. But uh, decoys are oh man, they're they're phenomenal. I mean they've gotten so good over the years. They look I mean, guys are using mounted birds all the way through. So uh yeah, and in a case too, I try to put those decoys out

in the field. You know. Well, you know, if you're running decoys, like I said, get get out there early. Set them birds out there early, way before the gray light starts. That way, you know, you're all set up in position. The birds are out there, you know, and that way, when that gobbler does wake up and they come down, there's no chance of you spooking them. Yep. Um, all right, so we've you know, birds kicked off the roost, they go the opposite way. You don't get a shot

at them. What's your hunt look like? You know after fly down into late morning, and what's your strategy You kind of mentioned if it goes to another property, you're gonna kind of hang out since that's the only bird in town. What's your strategy there? Yeah, you know what it depends. If like I'm on public ground, I've got a lot of ground of cover. I may go ahead and mark that bird and know where he's going to and I may jump off of him and go try

to find another bird that's goblin. And then from there I'm pretty aggressive. I'm you know, I'm walking hitting locator calls, looking for fresh sign. You know, don't over underestimate too. When you're walking down through the woods and you're walking and you see fresh sign that was made that morning,

them turkeys are close. There's somewhere right in there. So at that point, slow down and start watching and listening and maybe maybe find a good spot to set up if it's fresh sign, and especial if you see some gobbler tracks and stuff like that, and hit some calls if you think you know, like again, if you know the birds are there in that area, definitely set up

on him and try to call them. You know, you might be surprised and maybe right just around the bend of the road or over the ridge and once you sit down I hit a call, you know, they'll gobblin come on in on you. So, uh, my mid mid day is I just you know, I'm pretty I kind of hunt. I always tell Cody, I hunt like a coyote, you know, I stay low, I stay out of sight,

but I keep moving and I'm constantly looking. If I'm on property around the house where I don't have a lot of ground, I could I can really just jump on. I'll either make the decision to bail off the property and go to another chunk and check it, or if I think them birds are gonna come back that mid morning, I'll just you know, I'll set up and just wait on them, you know. More more or less, you almost go to a deer hunting mode then, which I rarely do,

just because I'm I'm active. I want to be out there. You know. That'd be kind of like deer hunting elk for you, I can get pretty tedious. I'd rather make him. I'd rather have turkey goblin and that elk buglin then just sitting there waiting on when to come in. So I usually I'm pretty active. Yeah, And one thing I've noticed,

We're lucky here in Washington. We've got three subspecies. We've got easterns here on the west side of the state, and then we've got rios and a majority of them or merriams on the northeast and southeast side, I think

southeastern rios. But I've been able to hunt in all the locations and both the Easterns I've hunted here in Washington's state and in Kansas, man that midday hunting is just tough to pull a gobble out from them, especially, you know, I'd say from like April twentieth to May tenth. It's just we've we've seen it. We can get a gobble out of the midday, but it just seems a lot tougher. Where like Miriam's lend themselves, they seem to

gobble all day long. If they're there, they hear a shot gobble, they hear turkey calls that, and then rios are kind of a mix between both. It maybe a little bit tougher to pull a gobble out, And that's one thing I just wanted to kind of put out there is in my experience, you know, having you know, five six years of hunting Easterns, post hunting Easterns, they

just they're a little tougher bird. And you know, I think they lend they they make you think that there's not as many birds on the landscape when when there are, especially on some of these properties with lots of cameras and stuff, we can see where the bird. You know that there are birds everyone we're not there when we go and check cameras after the hunts, Like, dang, that thing was right next to us when we were you know,

we were a ridge over or whatnot. We couldn't hear them. Um. So that's one thing that I've noticed, Um, you know, just just between the different subspecies that we've got to hunt, um mid day. And then one thing I like mid day is you know you get later in the season. We used to always our season goes all the way to the end of May. Here um Easterns and Merriam's

both and the Rio's that we've got to hunt. Is when those you get into the middle of May and all those hens are either starting to sit or their clutches are about full or they're sitting full day. Like, that's when the hunting gets good and you're gonna kill those older birds. In my opinions, so when when we when I was learning cutting my teeth, turkey hunting, like mid day was like you went back to camp, had

a big breakfast, hung out until the night hunt. You know, we always thought we could only kill them when they were gobbling. What we've actually started killing. I would say the majority of our birds midday once, you know, once you get that gobble dot, gobble's worth a whole lot more than those morning gobbles as far as you know, can finding that bird and killing it. Oh yeah, yeah, that's a you know, in Missouri, we can only hunt till one o'clock. So after one o'clock we were fishing.

You know, we're we're done. And some days, if the weather's good in the turkeys and goblin, I'm just gonna go fishing earlier. But uh, you know, and it's one of them things like that's that's a great deal with the locator calls, uh you know al scream or a Kyle How, not a Kyle How midday, but an al scream or like a peliated woodpecker or something like that. Just one time to get that bird to gobble midday,

one time, just to give up his location. That's gonna help you immensely because most of the time when you can get if you can get a bird to gobble midday and get him fired up, he's killable. You know, he's either had hens lefteam and uh he's and you know, and up till noon and one o'clock. I have more success around the house here at eleven, thirty twelve and one getting birds to goblin, getting them killed, and I

do at eight, nine, ten o'clock in the morning. So and then as the season goes on, and once the hens start getting bread and they're hitting the nest and stuff like that, then the gobblers are definitely starting to pick back up and make more tracks and be more vocal.

Now when i'm decoy and in the spring of the year, like early season, I'll run a jake decoy, a couple of hen decoys stuff like that, and then then birds will come in and a lot of times them gobblers will go right to that jake decoy because they want to assert their dominance and fight that jake for the hens. As it gets later in the season, I dropped the

jake decoy and I just go with a hen. That way, when that gobbler pops around the corner, he can see a hen out there, but there's no other gobblers for him to contend with or fight. Because you know, the way I hunt the birds, as you gotta understand their breeding cycle and early season, they're aggressive, they're wanting to fight. They're just like pre rut with a deer. You know, they're or sparring, they're going at it. Once the mating starts and the gobbling kind of hits a lull, then

birds are actively mating them. Gobblers don't want no competition. They don't want another gobbler coming in, you know, challenging them off the hens and stuff like that. So that's when all the goblin quits and they get quiet. Well, once the hens start nesting and the gobblers are starting to find themselves more alone, they still want to come to the hens, but they still don't want the competition of another gobbler because they know the hens are scares.

So that's when I drop, if you know, if I'm running a decoy again, I'll drop down to one hen. A lot of times of grass and stuff starting to get taller late season, you know, from early on, so I avoid any of the wheat fields or any of the hay fields early morning because they're all wet, and the birds usually don't like getting in that wet. They wait till it's dry, you know, mid morning on. So if it's a field that you know and you have

to watch your turkeys. This is a big thing I can say about scouting you even though you scout before season, You also need to be paying attention scouting deering season because just like elk hunting or deer hunting, as a mating season progresses and the temperature changes and the terrain changes, whether it be leaves greening up or grass getting taller, you have to adapt and change with that because because

the turkeys are changing with it. So the situation the place you set up early season that you killed a bird off of that was just on fire three weeks later is dead because the birds are not used it because they the grass got up to you know, over knee high, and you know, so they went to another field, you know, cut cornfield or something like that. So they've

they've changed their locations a little bit. So the whole time you're the whole time season is going, don't you know, don't stop scouting to birds, because that's that's a big mistake a lot of guys do. They they hold on to something like, man, I had birds here all spring and now they're not here and they're not goblin. Well they're they're still they just might have moved over ridge or you know, they might have hens with them, so

they quit goblins. So just the big thing with turkeys is you just have to really watch them because you early season, when they're all grouped up, you may have eight or nine gobblers in your flock, and then within two days you may be down to one gobbler because all the rest of them split up to go find their own territories. So you know, that's so's it's just like deer elk or anything. The more you scout, you know, the better off you're gonna be. And you know, talk

to your farmers, talk to your other buddies. The more information you know, knowledge is king. So the more you know, and the more you know. Watching the weather, you've got storms coming in, and you know that you're gonna have a bad winds out of the you know north. Like I said before, storms and birds are gonna roost low that morning. I'm not gonna go to a high spot. I'm gonna get down there in the bottom where I know them birds are at, you know, where there was

roosting at that night before. So just you know, take everything into consideration when you're easing in in the mornings and during the day's hunt. If the winds picking up during the midday, like you probably out west, you guys probably get it all the time, like Kansas and Bressa is terrible mid day. I try to get in them low spots where them birds can get out of them wind and where they can do their thing without you know,

just getting pounded by wind constantly. So take that into consideration when you're on your midday hunts, getting in a spot where the birds can actually hear you calling, you know, because if it's windy and you're blowing it, if you're running a calling the winds hitting in the face, your sound's not carrying very far. So try to, you know, use that wind to your advantage. You get in spots where you're calling and that sounds carrying a long ways

with the wind. Yeah, those are all great points. I know you've hunted, you know, nights in some other states that you've hunted in. But the I was gonna ask you kind of what you're late afternoon to fly up. Looks like we're gonna skip that since it sounds like you guys can't hunt pass well one o'clock there in Missouri and well, Kansas and Nebraska, places like that. I've hunted where you can hunt knights and stuff like that. Kentucky we can hunt nights and Tennessee in through there.

Uh you know what, I it's a lot of times the dudes goes back to scouting a lot of the areas in Kansas and places like that. Then birds are going to roost in the same general areas that they were, you know, from night to night to night. So I'm gonna slide in there a couple of hours early, you know, catch me a nap up against a tree. But I'm gonna be somewhere in their general vicinity where they're at.

And then as it's getting closer to dark, I'll have a good setup and I'm gonna start calling to them and try and get them birds coming in because you know, Rio's and Rio's and Miriam's all like that. Man, they got long legs. They can cover a lot of ground quick and all of a sudden, getting close to dark, all of a sudden you got to parade to Turkey's coming right in on top of and you hit them

with a call, man, they'll light up and go. Now, Kentucky places like that where the birds don't generally like around my house. I don't think my turkey's roost in the same tree their whole life. I think they pick a different tree every night just to drive me crazy. But Kentucky's the same way. You know, there's a lot of spots. They may be on the same ridge, but

they'll never be in the same spot exactly. So when that happens, I just kind of pick a spot that I know I can get in and out of good and I know I've got a little bit of advantage, you know. I'll check the wind and stuff like that, and uh set up and I just wait on them, you know, hit them with some soft calls, and if they gobble and come in, that's awesome. But I'm sitting there listening too, So if I hear them fly up, I'll know there's birds there for the morning. So that's

what I do. If I if I hunt all day and we've had great success in the evening time, you know, I mean, it's it's for me this. I've never got to hunt the evening. When I get to go someplace that I can't hunt the evening, I want to just because it's something new and exciting to me. You know, I've been up plenty of mornings at three thirty stomping through the woods to go get a bird off the limb.

But I'm excited when they're getting ready to fly up on one and I can get in there and work them because I've found that the birds in the evening time are they're they're killable. There ain't no issues there. Thanks, thanks for thanks for going to lining out you know your strategies throughout the day. Now we're going to kind of jump into calling. Um, how important is calling to your success? And then how important is good calling? Um? If you could break that down? You know, I'm assuming

you know you're you're a call builder. You love to call, You're like me. We like to add that, and that's what we're out there for. Um. But but how important is it? And and you know the same thing we always get do we have to call it? You know, elk as good as you to be able to call elkin or you know, So how important is calling? How important is good calling? Oh? Man? I you know I'm a I'm a call builder. I love to hear myself call.

I'm guilty as charge. I want to make that turkey gobble five thousand times just so you know I love it. But as far as you know, calling's important, and I'll stress this out, you know, I mean, I've I've called competitions since I've been in high school. So I mean to me, if I'm gonna go out there and make an animal sound, I want it to be correct, exactly like you know, whether if I'm locating birds, I want to sound exactly like an owl, sound like a crow.

I think the more realistic and natural you are, and the proper volume we are, I think the better success you'll has because that's what the birds are used to hearing. You don't have to be a good caller to kill turkeys. What you have to have is woodsmanship and the knowledge of knowing turkeys and knowing where they're wanting to go.

So if you're across the woven wire fence and you got a hot gobbler, I don't care how good a caller you are, he does and if he doesn't want to across that fence, he's not gonna come across it. Where if you had a little bit of knowledge of that fence and you set up where there was a hole in it or where you could shoot to the fence, you to kill that turkey with, you know, hardly minimal calling. So I mean, take, for instance, the Indians used to

use a cherry leaves and wingbones. And if you've heard those calls, they roughly imitate a turkey sound. I wouldn't call him a good sound. I'd call him good enough to full a turkey. And that's what and that's all it takes. So you don't have to be a champion caller to kill turkeys by no means, you know, I think being a better woodsman and knowing where the birds are wanting to go and putting yourself in a position where you can kill them turkeys is a big thing.

So I mean, if if you get off work and you're driving to the ice cream shop, you know, I mean, if you can get in between there, you know what's gonna go on, you can you know, same way with the turkeys. If you know them, Turkey's gonna fly down and run to a watering hole and get some water. If you can get in between there, and then you can sound like a turkey, whether it be just a little bit or you know, excellent, then birds are gonna swing by right there because they're on their way anyway.

So and trust me, when I first started turkey calling, I sounded like I got slammed in a screen door. So my first turkey hunt. I sounded, dude, I sounded like a coyote and a henhouse killing chickens. It didn't sound like a turkey, trust me. But the turkey still

gobbled at it and they came in, you know. So I mean, now that being said, if you can call and call good, I've had situations that I have been able to pull birds that, let's say, and you know, an average I wouldn't be able to where I've had them, let's say across the river or something like that, where I've just showered down on them with really crazy calling

and stuff like that. And I kind of have an unfair advantage if I'm hunting with my Cody or Carter, because those two can call like a house of fire. So a lot of times we'll set up and it'll sound like two or three hens over there, all calling at once, and I mean we just we drive them turkey's nuts till they've out to fly over. They've got to come over and check us out. So you know,

good calling does have its advantages in certain situations. But I will honestly say ninety five percent of the time or ninety seven percent of the time even back just being able to you know, do your basic yelp, your basic cluck, your basic per as long as you're set up where that burden needs to be. You know, a wing is a great example, Like I use a wing in a morning to fly down with. You can't get no more turkey than that. And you don't even have

to make a sound. You just have to, you know, bring it down, you know, beat it across your leg when you come down. If you're in a spot where they want to be and you know them turkeys are gonna be there, you can kill them. But no problem at all. Thanks, Thanks for that. Um. So that's a great segue into what you know. We talked about what locators you carry, what turkey calls are in your vest um you're taking on every hunt, every hunt. Man, I

tell you what, I take a wingbone turkey call. I started out in my whole turkey calling crew learning how to run a wing bone. So I take a wingbone with me. And a wingbone is a great call because it's a very soft call, or you can get as loud as you want on it, and it carries extremely long ways. So I mean I will I will match a wing bone up against any box call or any friction call, as far as sound carrying in the woods, as far as if you're like trying to locate a bird.

I mean, I've had bird's gobble at it before where you could see their heads and next stick out, but you couldn't hear them gobble. So I mean that it's a good call to carry. It's a you know, doesn't take up a lot of room. I always carry a few mouth calls, you know. I run a couple of double reads. I'll run a couple of triple reads, different cuts, you know, split vs. Basically, what I'm wanting is different calls that have different sounds, because every hen sounds different.

And you know, if if I'm out in the woods, here's a great story, and I'll get back on the turkey calls in a second. I was out and in the public ground a couple of years ago, and I had this gobbler, and man, I could not get this bird killed. I just couldn't get him killed. He was outsmarting me every time. And I was just like gonna start taking up croppie fishing for a living. And I to hen walk by one day and she did like a two note yelp, and she was real high pitch.

I mean she was just like yep, yep, just like that, and I was like, holy count and I and he gobbled and they hooked up and you know, went on. So the next morning I got in there and I was digging through my mouth calls, and I had a single read mouth call, which I keep in there because a lot of times if I'm out hunting, I see a coyote or something like that, I'll throw that single read in I'll try to like squeak him up and

get him shot. And uh so I took that mouth call and I hit it, and I was just like yep, just like that turkey and that high pitch. A bird gobbled at it, and he came right to me and I killed him and it wasn't and it was it wasn't. You know. I threw every mouth call, every box call, every friction call I had at him, and any pew gobbled at it. But he'd never come in because he was used to hearing that certain sound. And once I

pinpointed it, you know, I did it. So that's why I carry several mouth calls are small, you can fit them in a poucheesy. There's you know, they're minimal, so you can carry a lot of them. As far as that, I always care a couple of friction calls. I carry a slate call. I'm a slate junkie. I love slate just because it's soft. A lot of times in Missouri where we're at, you know, we're doing tree yuffs, clucks and purrs, you know, just soft stuff, tree talking. Then

I carry my aluminum you know, alumium call. I know Steve. I was carrying Steve's aluminum call before you know, before he started with you guys and designing that one that we did with you know one that he did with the osage, and uh, that thing's a monster, So I you know, I was. I'm carrying that all the time. And that's more for the you know, aggressive getting a

little bit louder stuff like that. It still does all the soft stuff great, but uh, that aluminum's just got a sound that that slate doesn't have, and on certain days and birds will gobble grade at it. So I've got my two friction calls. I got my mouth calls. I got a wing bone. I will carry a box call.

I'm hit or miss on a box call. Sometimes I'll carry it if I'm out west, I seem to carry a little bit more than I do if I'm around the house, just because I know my birds and I kind of got an idea what I'm gonna be setting up on and stuff like that. But I mean, I've had days before where the box call was the only call that made the turkey gobble and everything else just didn't work. You know a lot of guys, and we can segue on that a lot of guys. I carry him.

I carry multiple calls because certain days, certain turkeys will gobble and work in better on certain calls. So break that down for you. You know, last year I was on a bird here by the house, working him, and he was gobbling really good at all everything I was thrown, but he was just hanging up. He just wasn't doing

He wasn't advancing towards me. He was just sitting there gobbling, And basically, you know, in nature, the hens go to the gobblers, so we're reversing nature and having the gobblers come hunt us up. So he was gobbling good, he just wasn't coming into nothing. And I pulled out that aluminum call and hit him with that, and it turned

him inside out. He just lost it. And I mean, I don't know what it triggered in his mind or what why that sound that day grabbed him, but man, it grabbed him and he broke and came you know, he actually left two hens and came in right into me. So the multiple calls you can carry, the better you are as far as you know being in the game. You don't want to get out there and have one call and then the bird night answering it and then what do you do? You know, then you're kind of stuck.

So I carry a friction call, you know, my two friction calls, I usually carry about four strikers because every striker I have a little bit different sounds. So the idea, you know, sound like the turkey that they want to hear that day. So that's that's the key. Gotcha. Um, let's talk a little bit about the new Harrison Hooter and Harrison Hooter pro um. You guys have been calling in contests the last three weekends. The calls did exceptionally well.

But um, you know, we kind of got together and you know, the Harrison Hooters kind of your what we'd called your our standard um, you know, fixed fixed exhaust Hooter. And then we've got the Harrison Hooter Pro. You brought to me, Um like, hey, how do we how do we get this adjustable? And you and we talked, you know, between me and you, we came up with different orifices and kind of you know, came up with that design you know, your idea, and then we kind of worked

on O rings and ways to make it all work. Um. So now I believe when we make the claim it's their first adjustable hooter out there. Um, and it's a full acrylic on that one. So give us a quick rundown on those two, um for all the listeners out there. Oh okay, yeah, no, the Uh you know, I I've been designing out hoooters for a while and I'm passionate about these ouhooters things, kind of like you are with the Elk. So you know, the the Harrison Hooter, which

we made out of hard maple. Uh. The you know, we went with the maple just because maple's a great tone wood. Plus it's just tough, you know, maple. You can abuse, you can hunt it, and uh, it's still gonna have a great sound. Uh. That's a fix. That's a fixed call. It has three exhaust holes in the bottom. Uh, you know, we set the insert in it, and uh, that's your that's your sound. It's got a good, nice, rich sound to it. Uh, it's really smooth. That's the

one I've been running in competition. You know. Uh, a lot of guys are you know, you know, turkey calling contest. You get guys and I'm guilty of it too. You want to build a race car, I call him race cars. You know. My original ouhore that I want a lot of contest with was a race car. I built it specifically for contest, and there was only one of them, and it was the one I ran this go around

on this Harrison Hooter. When I got it done, it was so good that I am running, you know, at the All American this year, you know, at the Grand Nationals, at the Rolling Thunder, I'm running a production out Hooter on stage. And that's that's really what I wanted. I wanted guys to be able to go buy our call, you know, and have the confidence to walk on a stage or any set of woods and have a call of that caliber and that quality that they could they

could do whatever they wanted with it. You know, a lot of times you go to a sports show. I've seen this in past, and the guy who will have a call around his neck and he's blowing or whatever he's doing, you know, turkey call whatever, and you're like, man, let me buy that one. He's like, now that's my personal one. You know, well, I can honestly say, with me and you working on these things that are production

calls is as good as my contest calls. I mean they're all the same as one, so the quality is there. So that's I'm man, I'm so excited and stoked about that. And then the Harrison Hooter pro That idea came to me. You know, a long time ago when I was contest calling a lot, I wanted to be able to change pitches and tones per room I was calling in, so if I was in a small room, I could change it, or if I was in a big room, I could

change it, you know, buying pitch stuff like that. And then I got played with that idea and making some prototypes and I found that, you know, forget the contest idea of it, you know, that's that's an awesome deal, but the fact that now an individual can take that call and tune it to how they run a call, because that's the biggest problem I found with a lot of calls, whether it be an elk call, a duck call,

or anything. Everybody's at a different level of calling, or they run it different, or they hold their hands different, or they hold their you know, they blow air through a call different. With that adjustable out hoooter, you can actually tweak and tune that call to how you like it. So if you're in an open area or a guy that likes to blow a lot of air pressure, you can open it up and use it that way and

you know, have that sound that you want. Or if you're a you know, a light air pressure guy and you want to build that back pressure, you can choke that call down and make it softer and quieter. Where if you're in like a set of hardwood timbers and you don't want to blast that turkey off limb, you know, you can go that route. So the adjustable olhooter in my world is the cats. The cats me out. I mean, it'll do so much and it has so much versatility

and so much range that it's it's crazy. And the acrylic is is you know, you know as well as I do. When it comes to acrylic. The sound quality on acrylic is just it's just it's got a sound of its own that is just so clean and so clear. And on the Alhooters, on both of them, you know, an awl is only so big and he's only so loud. But that tone that they make carries so far through

the woods. And that's one thing I'm happy about the Molehooters that they hit that tone spot on and you don't have to really blast them loud to get that out. They get that sound to carry through the woods. So I mean, it's a I'm tickled to death, you know, the guy, the guys we got turning the barrels, Farst and stuff are absolutely perfect. You know, putting them together was a breeze. I mean, every one of them has been just home run all the way around. Yep. Now

I'm excited how they turned out. Um our first batch of the wood ones that you're using on stage already sold out, but we've got a replenishment coming in. By time this drops on Thursday, we should have them back in stock there hopefully. But yeah, they're doing real well.

And you know I've told you before, you know, back in the day where I use the old palm or tube and you know these things, you know that had a great sound to it, but these things, in my opinion or you know, just just surpassed it and the sound quality, the ability to crank the volume up if I'm trying to locate a bird out in the open versus like you said, dial it back, um, if we're

in a little hardwood draw. Um. I think the Hooter pro is just is where it's at for hunting alcohol um, And and really appreciate, Yeah, you're taking that on and letting us be a part of it, James, and being able to add it to our lineup. So oh man, I'm I'm tickled that you you know, you guys got it, that's for sure. I mean, and we're we're I'm excited to be working with you because, uh, you know, we were just taking it to the you know, like I said on a lot of my stuff, I said, we're

taking locator calls to the next level. And uh, I think that's what the ol hooters, you know, it's it's just like your elk calls. And just like the deer

Grunners we worked on. We don't ever settle for satisfied We're always working and always trying to make something better because no even as even as good as that adjustable ol hooter is, I can promise you, I'm already thinking about how ways I can make it just a little bit better here and there, a little bit tweaks, because you know, that's why we work so good together with

James Harrison Phelps game calls is. Uh, we're always trying to strive for something better and and getting the hunter the quality product that you know they're spending their heart and money for that, you know, And uh, I take that serious that they're spending their money and we're putting a product out that they can count on and rely on.

And I don't have to worry, you know when I when I know they're getting the best product that from both of us, because everything so far we've done, it's been phenomenal and I see nothing but awesome, you know. Future head In closing here, James, what is one tip you feel you would give that you could give that would give Turkey hunters better odds and finding success this year?

Oh man, My one tip, I guess if I had to be and this is gonna be an old man tip as a man patience, patience, and scout a lot. You know, the more patience you can have, Like I said, turkeys don't wear watches. You know, when you're in the woods hunting, whether it be you know, a turkey, elk or whatever, you're on their time. So I try not to push situations. I watched the birds. The more you can learn about them, the better off you're gonna be. The more you can scout them, the better off and

more success you're gonna have. And just having patience, you know, don't you know, just like you said hunting Easterns, you know, you then Virgil was there and you just couldn't hear them, but they were just right there the whole time. You know, patience is the key, I guess if you wanted to be if I had to tell one, you know, people, one thing is just had patience, you know. I mean we live in a world of instant now. You know, if if I have a question, I can Google it

and it's there automatically. In the Turkey words, they don't have Google. So patience is the key. Patience, patience, patience. All right, thanks for that one. And closing, how can people find out more about you? Is? You know, some of the other calls, some of your even your custom stuff. You're still doing. You and you and Cody and Carter and your guys is hunting. How can people find out more about Yeah, I've got the you know, I've got

the Facebook page. It's a Harrison Custom Calls. That's usually where I just put my hand turned one of a kind al hooters on, you know, make them out of different woods or exotics and stuff like that. We have an Instagram which is is Harrison Custom Calls or you're just you know James Harrison. Cody's on there too, he's you know, Cody Harrison. Then harder and uh, We're we're pretty reachable. Just look farst there and then we'll be all over this spring as far as uh, Kentucky, Missouri,

hunting in a little bit everywhere. I'm gonna try to since you got so many turkeys out in Washington, I'm just gonna try to start looking for plane tickets coming out there and kill some turkeys out there. There you go. You can literally land in Spokane, go any direction and you'll be fine out It's good. One of these days we need to get you out here. Um and uh, just planning a hunt and put it on the book, so it'll be it'll be a blast put a big

Turkey camp together. So um, we appreciate having you on. Yeah, really appreciate having you on today, James. And good luck this spring and uh well I'm sure we'll be in touch all week is we're building more out Hooters and getting stuff, you know, getting getting great hunting calls out to all the customers and listeners out there. Awesome. I appreciate the time, man, Thanks dude, Yea, take care of