Ep. 2: Turkey Hunting 101 - Being Aggressive vs. Being Patient

and A from social email and past episodes. The first question we have today is how far can a turkey here? Your call? Um? You know, whether we look at like the scientific research versus like what our experience tells us out in the field. Um. A lot of scientists say that they can hear at least a quarter mile. Um. Some say imperfect conditions, they can hear up to a half a mile. You honest, what would you say just from your experience hunting? You know, getting responses? Um? How

does terrain matter? You know, calmness of the day, fog versus windy? Um, kind of give us give us your opinion and then all kind of you know, use some of my examples to decide how far they can hear. I think the quick answer would be, yeah, that quarter mile, half mile, you know, bad conditions versus great conditions. That

sounds about right. But I do think that, um, there's a lot of uh nuances that you know, I am constantly thinking about when I'm you know, calling two turkeys if I don't know they're there, you know, if I haven't heard them. Ah, And certainly probably even more than terrain, I'd say it's foliage, like the amount of foliage on the trees, the amount of trees in general that are between you and the turkey, you know, because out west,

you know, we're mostly hunt coniferous forest. Right, it was just needles on the tree, a little more open, no real leaves. Now obviously thick evergreen could I think soak up some sound big time. But like this past springing

I was in Wisconsin. We were there pretty late in May, and it was way leafed out, like when you were in the woods, you know, you could barely see fifty yards, you know, and I felt like they're like at best, you know, we were here in a gobble at like they were, so they're pretty much right on top of you at the point you can hear yeah, totally, yeah, And now you've got some pet turkeys that you're gonna have to like walk farther from your house and like range,

find back and you can get an answer, and then we'll maybe get a better answer to this question. Um, okay, the second question. Early in the season, I had a particular area in the morning, the birds are gobbling their heads off, hit the ground and shut up. What would your strategy be, Um, I'll take a crack at this and we'll see if you have anything to add Um. So it's very tough. I mean, hopefully you have some

idea where these turkeys are going. They're going, you know, where they're strutting zone is where those hens want to be, where the hens want to feed. You can try to set up down there. You know. One thing that I have an issue with is if I can I can watch a turkey for five days, pitch out of a tree, out of the roofs hit a spot, do the same thing five days in your own If I go sit in that spot on the sixth day, they're gonna do something different. But I would just try to figure out

where those birds are going. Um. You know, it sounds like and we don't have all of the context of this question, Like maybe the person scared to you know, chase chase gobbles. Maybe the person is scared to you know, go bump the bird, which is you know, completely normal, but maybe be a little more aggressive. Um. The other

thing is one of the things I had heard. I believe Mike Chamberlain brought it up on a podcast I was on on the met Eater a year ago, which I didn't realize that Turkey, they they've got a pretty good memory, like they knew where maybe they've heard you called from three or four or five hours ago. Um, you know, I'm not necessarily that patient to to call from an area and then wait three to five hours see if he loses his hens, maybe comes back. But

those are some options. Either get aggressive, um, you know, try to stay with that bird and that's how I hunt. You know, Turkey's a lot is you know, chasing gobbles, and then try to get just close enough to set up without them seeing me. And then usually you're back up trying to reset up. But those would be the

two options. What would you do in that. I mean, we don't have all the context of this question, but sure, but I've been in that position, and you know, maybe you're hunting a place that you haven't been before, so you don't really know where you're they're going. You know, you have an idea. UM. I do feel like we often forget that. Like most turkeys, like they unless they're getting bunked, they're probably not ranging that far. So yeah,

being patient and hanging out in that zone. UM. But I had heard it that turkeys will, when they lose their hands, come back to where they heard you call in the morning before, and I've had it payoff where you can never know if it was the same bird. But I know that one morning I called back and forth at a bird that was way too far off. I think it was on a neighboring property, and we did it for maybe minutes and I could hear hands,

and I'm like, man, it ain't gonna happen now. But for whatever reason, we're like at one pm, we're like, oh, let's swing by that same point and see what's going on. And we peeked out and it's a big, like a high lining cut and we could look down it and like yards down this cut, there's a gobbler out shutting. Can't see any hands with him. We made a few calls, and that soccer was like about face and just coming on. Yep, yeah, good good points. And I'm just never patient enough to

see if they'll come back. I've either moved on or wouldn't chase the bird that was, you know, still talking, but no good advice. And then um a question that Joanni brought from a listener or cousin. I can't remember what he said, my cousin, does your decoy approach changed during the course of the season. I only want to carry two decoys the same with me. I usually carry a hand and and a breeding jake my decoy approaches.

If I'm in thick foliage, thick vegetation, I usually don't set up a decoy or have time or want to risk, you know, depending on how close we are to the bird. Um, if we're cold calling, you could set up you know, birds in that you know situation, even if you're in the dense, you know, just to get the eyes off of you and and maybe attract you know, pick up you know, on the turkey's site, um, to keep them

off of you. But normally throughout the year, I'm really only setting up decoys if we got good visibility, you know, if I'm across the field or across the meadow. UM got good visibility where a turkey can come out and see the decoys, and I'll set them up typically on the edge of the edge of the foliage. But I guess I wouldn't say I don't typically change my decoy approach out this season. It's usually always a jake behind

a hen. How about you. You're honest, you know, I love using a strutter decoy just because I feel like it's faun, you know, because that strutter really like entices a big gobbler to come in and strut for you, and you get to see the whole show and all that. But yeah, I've never like used the strutter and then thought I should have been using something else. You know,

I might him off, um, but I'm with you. It seems like for running gun the decoys can almost get in the way more than they are helpful, because you're you're constantly like setting up and then setting up for the decoy placement, right, And if you didn't have the decoy, you just set up so that you know when the bird comes over the horizon to come check you out, you shoot him right, Instead, you're kind of setting up so that he's gonna have an opportunity to see the decoy.

So yeah, I do feel like for running gun it's not as it's just better to leave him behind. Um, but there's no doubt in my mind that like on a like an open field set up like a big spread, definitely can just be the actual little bit of realism that you need to bring in the bird for sure. I'm gonna add on to that question, Um, do you feel I mean, we've all seen you know, Gabbler's takeoff running across the field at a foam decoy, you know,

just a cheap decoy. Do you feel there's any need difference? Are turkeys smart enough? The wildiest turkey? Can you fool him like with a stuff for decoy, which is you know, somebody's taken the you know, a real turkey taxidermy it up? Or do you think it matters that much between would that, ever, you know, be the difference in calling the bird and having a stuff for decoy versus you know, you're cheaper

film options. Yes, I think I feel like I've seen it in action where I'm just like that bird could tell from two yards away that something was in this. Yeah, We've we've had birds coming in like instantly, like all of a sudden lost interest and you're like, what, you know, what did it pick up? What wasn't right? Um, I've got to hunt behind a few stuff or hands before, and it seems like the birds you know, could tell at times that you know, it was more real life. Yeah,

real life. I like to run those uh Dave Smith decoys. I'm sure you've probably used those two, and I don't know of others that are as realistic or more realistic. That being said, I've had birds turn away from those two.

I feel like if it's like the same field, the same corner where in the last week, you know, five out of the seven mornings there's been a decoy set up and somebody even maybe shot round off at one point, like it doesn't matter what you got going on, and they're just like, no, not into it, you know, yep, no, I'm And then a lot of times, you know, the quality of decoys, whether it's Dave Smith if you're hunting you know, Kansas flat Lands versus if you're in eastern

Washington and Canyon Country like you know, and then and then you're the decision run through your head, like is it actually gonna hurt to pull out these smashed up foam decoys that the paints ripped off their heads? You know? And some of that stuff always runs here and I don't know what the right answer is, like is it does it actually do more harm than good? But what I'm in here, I'm excited to try this spring is Uh, I got a whole batch of those uh Montana decoys.

They're doing some turkeys now and uh it's like they're like spring loaded, so they still pop out three D. But yeah, it's a very like compared to a Dave Smith, it's a very crude representation. But like and when we hunt eastern Montana, we cover miles every day, and packing around those bigger Dave Smiths, man, you just get gets old after a while, exactly. And so I'll let you

know next time we do this next spring. How the just super pacable, you know, not as realistic looking, want to do perfect some of the questions that I had pretty honest. Um, you know, I think he spends maybe more time than anybody in the spring Jason turkeys, um quite a bit. He's frowning at my cross table there, so he spends quiet, he spends more time turkey hunting, I think on it on any given spring than I do.

So I've got some questions for him, um and and uh coincidentally, the very first question I have for him

is on decoying. Um, you know, I wake up every morning ready to kind of do run and gun, you know, after we sit at the roost tree, see how that pans out, which is almost always in the turkey's favor versus you know, setting up decoys, figuring out you've got a good spot, Like what do you wake up in the morning, what the plan doesn't depend on you know, where the roost tree is, where they've been typically flying down, Like you go out there with a plan the decoy

in the morning, or do you go out with a plan like to move and then if decoying works that you'll set them up. Oh boy, I mean I would certainly say that I'm never gonna pass up trying to have a bird roosted and trying to go for that move just because it gives me more time to hunt. Right And Uh, it's like great to be sitting there in the dark and the bird fires off and you're like sweet, he's like less than seventy yards away in

the tree. Like it's a fun, Like the anticipation is high, and even though we know that it doesn't work out, probably more than half the time, Like, it's fun to be in that position. And that's why I'm out there, is to have some fun, you know. So you're the guy out there at like four am, like crawling out to get your decoys kind of set up up and and uh in place and then crawl back to your tree. Oh sure, yeah, if I have a bird roosted, you know.

If not, Um, you know, it's trying to be on a high point in the dark and you know, listening making some you know crow calls or or you know, olo hoots at the right time of the morning and hopefully here one fire and off somewhere, and then it's a sprint to get within range. You know. But I'm definitely more cautious at that point, like I'm not gonna risk them seeing me so I can get closer. Um, when I know that it is better, I think just to like let it happen. Maybe you call them in

first thing, Maybe you don't. If you don't, at least they haven't seen you, they fade off, I have the opportunity to make another move. How many I guess that brings up another question. How many days do you go out in the Turkey woods with birds rooster? What do you say, I mean, is it is it vital to

your success or? Or? I mean, because we when we hunt a northeast Washington growing up, you know, when I was in high school just starting to trick out, like we were in an area that fortunately for us, on public ground somewhere like we could drive around after dark and locate a bird. So we always started on on a roosted bird. But I honestly have never killed one that we've had. I mean, we maybe killed them later in the morning, but we've never killed them technically off

the roost um. What would you say your percentage is like? Do you like the I mean, ideally we all go into the morning right having a bird roost and knowing exactly where they are. I mean, I mean I know some people that have quit doing it. I read some article recently, I can't remember who wrote it, but they said that they kind of quit doing the roosted bird thing and just went out there sort of with a little bit more of a blank slate and when they'd

hear bird, they'd go and you know, make their setup. Um, But is the question, what's my like success percentage of like like killing them off the roost? Yeah? Yeah, I mean what would you say, like is it are you killing you know, ten percent of birds off the roost? Or are you killing? Yeah? I think if I have a bird roost in, I think it might go up to one out of five birds that I know where they are, I could probably kill. I would think that's

about right, even though mine's way less. I don't know. I don't know if it's because I start to you know, do the soft tree helps and you just want them to keep going or like to recognize you. Maybe I'm just overdo it on the calls, um, first thing in the morning. But it just never seems to work out for me. I mean I'll and you know, I'll definitely run if I have a bird rooster and I feel like it's in a good spot to set out some decoys, Um,

I'll run that for sure. Like you know, a hand and a strutter, it's hard for that strutter, that the real strutter to be up in a tree and see that going on down below him and not come over and have a confrontational Last year, you had some interesting things happen at your decoy setups. Um, one coyote and then three cougars and come into your setups with decoys. Well the uh, trying to think if we even had I don't think I had. We were just calling when

those when the lions came in. Actually I don't, I don't. Actually, I don't think I had decoys set up for either of them, or they were just because the kyote came and got the bird you had just shot. Yeah, yeah, So I'm sure that in both instances, I'm not sure. I believe. I think that in both instances the predators

were there for the same reason. I was like, they could hear gobbling, they could hear turkeys, they were sneaking around, they were sneaking in, and it just so happened that, you know, they went right by me or in the coyotes case, like he watched my bird start flopping, And it's still odd to me that that was, you know, a half a second after a gunshot went off, and he had not a care in the world. Yeah, he

didn't care about he had a crippled bird. There that he thought was an easy meal and didn't care that a gun had literally just did that. Yeah. And then on the cougars, you just called those into your set up, right, they kind of well, again, I don't know, like we were set up on the side of a pretty steep mountain, like like in a full on mountain, like a mountain that took us a solid thirty forty minutes to climb up out of this creek bottom to get up to

where these turkeys were. And uh, we're kind of on like a draw on the side of this mountain and turkeys were on one side. Later we learned once we kind of went up there to see where they were,

they were. They were on this sort of a bench, uh you know, land type, you know land feature, but the cougar So we were calling to them back and forth, and the cougars basically came up this draw that was between us and the real turkeys, and you know whether I mean, I'm sure they heard my calling, but they were like on a direct path to go to where those turkeys were, you know. Yeah, and once they went by us, those turkeys where Goblin. That was the end

of that morning. A lot of excitement at Janice is setups. You know for sure last year was intense, you know, and I can't believe that both times we had the presence of mind to whip out a camera and uh, take a little video perfect perfect or switch gears of here a little bit um this one. You got to be a little creative. Let's say you, uh, you have a clean canvas hunted acres, and you can paint your

perfect turkey hunting setting. Um, give us a little bit of what that would look like as far as streams, vegetation, agg trees, ridges, Like, what what would your ideal turkey hunting spot look like? And you're asking me ideal as in just what I like to hunt? Or is it or is more of like what I feel like is a this is the best landscape to kill a turkey? Yeah? Kill? You can pose it anyway want um hunt and kill?

I guess like if that was your hunted acres to hunt for the rest of your life, you had it forever, Like what would it consist of? You would have a barn in the back corner of the feel like you know, the just picture perfect turkey stuff, Like, what would what

would that look like? Well? I tell you, man, I'm I really it's a tough question because I enjoy like the ponderosa kind of river breaks country of the West that I get to hunt that it's it's very savannah like you have big ponderoses, but you can see sometimes hundreds of yards you know, through the understory, and uh, it's just like beautiful park land to walk through its rolling hills. You're not trudging up and down you know, two thousand foot elevation, you know, gains and drops like

you are l hunting. Yeah, it's just beautiful. But I also really enjoy hunting turkeys in the Midwest, which you know on hard hardwood oak ridges, um, with just beautiful green, super green spring colors going off, you know, and you know, if you get lucky, you see something like the dogwoods bloom and you know, Um, so I would I would always prefer to hunt him like without any sort of agriculture, just because I feel like you end up like not at the field edge hunt is bad, but um, they

just see it just seems to be a little bit more predictable. And there's a lot of the reason I love hunting turkeys is because they are on protectable and they're constantly like humbling me, you know, and what they're doing. Um, So I feel like just hunting them in the woods,

it's a little more challenging. Um. And I would say like the defining feature between both of those landscapes that I would like to have to help me kill him would be some sort of roles in the terrain, something that makes like horizon edges that are you know, that I can set up behind, that I can use to hide, that I can use to move um. Because it's no

different I feel like than from an elk. If you're calling and that elk can see a hundred yards to where you're calling from, and he doesn't see another elk there, they get suspicious. Yeah, And the turkey is the same way. And so if you have to force the animal to come around a corner or come over the horizon to come and check you out, or come through something thick to you know, come check you out. I use that as my sort of like if you want to see me going to come through here, and if you come

through here, hopefully I get a shot, you know. And so I like to have some sort of you know, I don't want to go on turkeys on the planes of Kansas although I've done it and it was fun, but I remember being extremely difficult for that reason. Gotcha, Yeah, I mean there's we have a kind of what I would label as my picture perfect spot in northeast Washington. Of course it's a piece of private but you would drive by. It has you know, one major agg filled out in the middle, and then it goes up in

the mountainous country. But then the draws would have like you know, semi parks and meadows and the bottoms of those and it kind of all fed to this agg. I just would love to go kill him back up on those parks and meadows. But it was just kind of like the ideal spot where they had big roost trees along the creek, they had their water they needed there, they had a bunch of brush around it for their

nesting spots. So it's just like the perfect mix of everything, Like the hens didn't need to leave that piece you know later, you know, to to go find nesting um, tons of food, you know, tons of elevation for us to hear birds off of um. And so it's kind

of that like mountain mixed in the agg. But then have you know, the creek and the brush and stuff was It's kind of always been like the ideal set up, and it seems like now, of course, any time I'm anywhere, you know, if we're in a Kansas spot that kind of looks like it, it it reminds me of like, oh, I just you feel like you're in turkeys and uh, you know, it's kind of my my ideal set up. But it's it's on the ground. It exists. We just don't have permission to hunt the private anymore. Never did

we never did. We have the fringes, but you could like you know, you you do your morning hunt, maybe go back, you know for lunch or whatnot, and there's you know, birds everywhere on you know, every edge of that place, and it's just like dang, you know, it's like it was just perfect. Yeah. Well that's the cool thing about turkeys, man, They're so adaptable and they live I think now in every state in the country, right, um,

dang near. I know that the Alaska population is like kind of like uh, you know, maybe a myth maybe not, but there there sometimes you know, Um, but yeah, they live everywhere, you know, so you can find like, in your mind perfect turkey have tet anywhere anywhere you go, all right, Um, aggressive setups for verse being patient and you know, coming as a you know, a die hard elk guy, Like I've just kind of taken what I knew about elk and transferred it to turkey hunting, So

we keep a very aggressive set up. Um. The question I want to ask, how long do you wait before moving? Like, if let's say you're you're in a decent spot, you know, a hardwood bottom, you hear turkey three or four yards away, you call you guys play the game for a little bit, you know, let's say five to ten minutes, a bird answers, answers, and it seems like either moved off or went silent. Like how patient is the honest patel us against the

turkey tree? Or are you gonna go move two hundred yards ahead and see if you can strike him back up? Like you know, where the heck are you at? Yeah? Boy, it depends on It depends on the day and in

the terrain big time. Um, Because again, a lot of times in the open country of the West, you might be able to see them, you know, and kind of see what their mood is or you know, if they're tending to head one way or another, you know, which makes it great for us because you can always sort of fall back on like a bush wax strategy, which is just like, Okay, they're heading generally east, let's jump on the north side of this ridge and boogie five

yards get in front of them. Because I can tell you that it's you're always gonna be more successful calling a turkey the direction that he's already going or she's already going, then trying to turn them or pull them back,

you know, the way they don't want to go. This past spring, when we were in Wisconsin, I was just telling you about when it was super leafed out, we had a great example of this where we snuck into like, shoot, three hundred yards of these turkeys like working this wide open chopped corn field, and it was like it was a hilly corn field, so you could see all the way up to the horizon. It was maybe five yards

away in these turkeys. There was I don't know, three or four gollbers working back and forth, um, and we got the decoys set up without them seeing us. We got behind our decoys and and the chopped cornfield was on the neighbors, so we were like limited as to like how much we could actually chase them, you know, and uh, we set up called worked um, called worked um.

Thought we had one or two pretty fired up. They kind of came down the hill across the chopped corn field, but eventually it went silent and we couldn't see any more birds, and we could we had seen a couple of fade away, but I kept telling my buddy Miller that I was hunted with. I'm like, man, like we saw it. For whatever it was four gobblers total. We know, two faded away, but the other two we don't know where they are. Like, let's give it some time. Let's wait,

let's wait, let's wait. And because for sure they had seen the decoys. For sure they had heard us. They had been answering us, and it probably seemed like a lot longer than it was. I'm guessing it was five to ten minutes. But all of a sudden, like we're looking at, you know, our equoy, and right next to it, here comes the redhead. I mean he was in range when and it was just like the role of the terrain or whatever. He was able to, you know, kind

of sneak in on us. But we very easily could have been standing there and been you know, their heads down, like thinking about the next plan, and just those five or ten minutes made it pay off. So I'd like to think that, you know, all, at least when I'm like in a rush, I'll be like, okay, dude, just give it five give a tent, you know what I mean?

Like that Turkey's, like I said, most of them just really aren't covering that much country in a day, So they're not going that far, you know, And so give it ten minutes if he's sure. If he was, he's walking directly away from you, maybe he's gonna be fifty yards farther than he was earlier, right there, just slowly feeding their way around. Yeah. One thing I noticed this

year on the bird I killed um in Kansas. We think he was like a two year old, maybe a young three, But there were some big, big Eastern birds on that property, like a lot bigger than he was, and we got to watch him, similar to that story, come corner to corner across the cut corn field that was just you know, left, and he approached so so slowly, like made up zero ground and like fifteen minutes to come across that field, maybe two hundred yards and you know,

we were hunt with Chris Parrish and he's like that bird had been beat up. You know, he was super nervous with the situation. You know, kind of as he approached that hind decoy all by itself, like just he

was waiting to almost be ambush. He's waiting to you know, approach with extreme caution and so you know, but it just lets you kind of see, like, well, if that would have been where I thought that bird was four hundred yards away and he had to cover that like it could have been thirty to forty five minutes before. Because I inevitably I get super impatient, Well the damn thing hasn't answered me. Obviously he left. Let's walk towards him.

And then you know, you're, you know, two hundred yards away, you meet the turkey and it's just an explosion of feathers and you know, him bombing out of there, and it's like he was still there. He just for some reason or another had crossed the lying in the dirt that said all right, I'm not gonna talk anymore. I'm

close enough. Um. You know, maybe he's waiting for that him to come see him, like I don't know what the thing is, but it seems like more times than not, when I get in patient, you end up, you know, busting that bird um as you get up moving in his direction. Yeah, totally, so I think it happens with you know, with elk dude. We had one last year that I think we already caught him, or maybe we had set up. He came feeding out of the timber and there's this giant oak tree in the middle of

a child. I think it was like I think it was corn again, maybe it was like half corn half beans. Anyways, he comes out, goes around this big old oak tree, starts coming towards me, and then veers off, just keeps on feeding, goes all the way around this giant oak tree. It took him fifteen twenty minutes and he's just feeding, feeding, feeding, and he'd already made like emotion to come towards me, but he just had to go all the way around

this oak tree again. And then the second time around he came, and then he came to but it was still it wasn't like the dominant bird that's just come and running where you can just see his you know, breast shaking as he's running towards you. It was just like I'm gonna feed slowly. And then when he finally got within that you know range, when he's looking at my Jake Decoit going like all right, I know I can beat you up. That was the first time he

came into strut and he was already within range. You know. So let's dive a little bit into how Janice would tell us calls turkeys, Like what his strategy is? What your technique is? Um? You know there's Kluck's purrs, cackles, you know, cutting yelping, Um, is there a and I'm sure most of us have a go to Like, you know, let's say you're you're set up in a good spot, everything's working, the birds a hun fift yards away, Like,

what's your calling? You know, strategy? I know there's a lot of other factors, but let's just say on um, you know your general calling setup, Like how are you going to speak to the burden? Where are you gonna what call you gonna use? Is gonna be on a pot call box, a mouth diaphragm? Like can you explain that situation? Kind of what your go to is? Go to geez? It used to be a diaphragm. Like I always felt like if I could, if you're gonna make me just have one call, it would be a diaphragm.

And just because I was that was most comfortable with him. It's probably because I've gotten good with an elk diaphragm and so it's pretty easy to you know, when I switched over. Now, I've also feel like I could probably make more nuanced, softer stuff with a pot um. And it just depends, like probably for the nuance softer stuff slate and then if I want to get a little bit louder, you know, I'll go crystal, you know, to

try to fire one up. But if the birds already there, and like I feel like I'm working him, Um, I'm gonna start with less and then work towards more. And that's something I've learned with my pet turkeys, and it might change as we come into the first breeding season here soon. But like, rarely do I hear those turkeys. I've got one jke and two hands right now. Rarely do they make more than like three to four notes. Rarely.

It's that's what you hear five percent of the time out of my turkeys, And you hear just the little putts and purrs, but they're not sitting there. Yeah, got cock, yeah for seven or eight. Yeah, now everybody's seen now a YouTube video. There's some hand that you know does

seventies to you know, yelps in a row. Um, but I would start with less and just think that, you know, again, just like percent of the time my turkeys are not doing a lot, it's probably similar in the woods, um five percent at the time there's probably some hend just

going bonkers. You can always escalate to that and and um, you know, backing up to if the bird wasn't there, and if I'm just trying to find one, yeah, i might do a you know, ten notes real loud with some cutting and stuff just to get an answer, but then I'd probably immediately back it off, you know, and trying to just work into it. So um, yeah, it probably just depends on whether if I have a diaphragm of mouth or if I want to pull out the pot call you know, how much time I have, you

know to set up and whatever. But yeah, starting just really micro couple three yelps, you know, maybe a little a couple of clucks here and there, and then you just judge kind of his response as he gobbled as he you know, are you or are you just doing

it regardless? And then you gotta, you know, figure out how he responded and then kind of make your next play like all right, he like that will get Because a lot of times I feel like, even though you know, you think that you're getting him all fired up and he's gobbling in every call, I have a feeling that that bird you could probably quit calling and he's gonna keep coming and keep gobbling because he's fired up, right, Like, you don't necessarily have to get him all hot and bothered.

And I'm sure that some people are good enough to do that. I don't know if I am. It seems like most of the time like he wants to come to you anyways. I don't know if he needs like to hear you making more yelps to be like okay, for sure, I'm coming now, Like he's like, okay, there's a hen there, I'm coming, you know. Yeah. And that's where it's nice to be able to watch him because you know, if they kind of stop and then you call again and they start to move again, it's all right.

He needs, you know, need some prompting to keep moving versus you know, like you said, if you make that first three or four note yelp, he responds to it, he might be on his way regardless of what you do from there on out. Um, I'm with you. I I I used to be a diaphragm junking because it's kind of a carry over from elk calling. But you get into turkey calling and I just love the sound that you get have a pot It seems like the

birds are super responsive. My one big conundrum though, is all right, you're doing the calling, you're you're running a pot call, and the bird gets close or he's visible and you're not necessarily you know, tucked in right all right, now I've got to is me switching to the mouth dif I'm here at the end, you gonna mess it up? Is you're gonna notice a difference Like That's always the why.

I wish you could just you know, have a have a caller ten yards back using a pot call shared in that way, you don't have to you know, the shooter can do what he needs to do or I could do. Um. Yeah, hey on top, you mentioned slate to bring this up. I just found out this morning before this podcast. There is evidently a a slate um

issue across the country. Shortage, Like I'm having to decide now what I want for slate in the middle of and we haven't even sold calls yet and so um and I'm lucky that Phelps Game Calls was a big enough customer last year, thankful to the meter x Belts line and it's popularity that we made like that that we were like the bottom cut of being on the list of even being able to buy slate from the

one manufacturer. So it's getting crazy out there. Um Like just it's not like glass or crystal or something that's like more you know, um man made. I guess it's being naturally produced stone, Like there's only gonna be x amount. And if you don't, if you're not part of the do you know if like demand his increase like in some other production that happens in the world. I just think that there was. It sounds like there was. It's been bad business for the last couple of years. So

they're um raising the price up. And they basically said like well, you know, basically there was anybody else besides this group of of you know, people that have the

slate could sell to you. But other than that, like we're no longer distributing slate to the smaller companies, Like, well, that puts us in a weird spot because you know, we're we're here probably you know, early March of you too, and I'm making the decision like what are are forecasting and and everything's gonna be for But it's it's such a it's such a good material for a tricky call. Um you want to be on that list? Or Yeah,

interesting decisions I gotta make. Yeah, yeah, I think we'll we'll definitely probably buy more than we need, just to make sure we have someone hand. Yeah. Um, soeah, just a little side fact on on the slate issue in the United States. Right now, we're gonna drop down to the question that I had for you is and then this is very dependent. I mean, if you're hunting Osceola's, you're obviously going to be in you know, March early April. Or if you're hunting Washington way up north, it's gonna

be different. Let's take like your typical Midwest state, Um, what's your favorite seven days? I mean, you know you're hunting from April, you know, I think last year when you hunt from April early in April too, you know towards the end of May even you're kind of you know, scattered out like with with a ton of experience covering

probably two different months. Like if you could pick a seven day period, you know, what would be your ideal time to be out there, and just top my head, I'd probably say like the fifth through the seventh or fifth or the twelfth of May. Yeah, elaborate a little bit. I'm sure your reasons are the same, um for mine, because my my days are very similar in Washington. I would like to be there, you know that probably that first weekend in May, and then hunt that next week.

You know, if I had to pick a week time there, um, you know, I'll let you give your your answers why that's such a great time. Um, I'm fully on board and and all of your listeners don't hunt the same time as me and Yanni um are recommending you guys, still fill up opening weekend, get all excited, get it

out of your system, don't come back in May. But we're gonna do our best to explain why we feel that that first part of mayze I mean, honestly, before we get into like the turkey, you know, tactics and behavior and whatever. A lot of it for me has to do it just the weather. I mean you can kill birds all April long long, but especially hunting out west and even hunting in the Midwest. Man, like hunting turkeys like in a light snowstorm. Yeah, it's still fun.

I like hunting turkeys and any weather. But is it as good as when it's like a blue birds sixty five spring day and the birds are all going off and it's all green and pretty out there. No, it ain't the same. Turkey hunting in the rain is only better than work, like there's nothing else below it. Like I'd rather be turkey hunting in the rain. But it just sucks sitting under a tree getting soaked. Um, it's still pretty cold that time of year. Reason the reason, No,

I've have been so cold sitting in exactly that. Man, Like, we had a bird he only gobbled to three times. I was with my wife, and uh, he came down. We kind of lost him and he popped over a little ridgie and I saw a hand with him. But they were just feeding our way. But they were like just feeding because it was just like cold and sopping wet, like he wasn't strutting, they were just feeding. I'm like, you know what kind of looks they're coming our way.

Let's just wait it out. And we were there for a solid hour and sure enough, eventually here they come within range and we killed the killed the tom. But like it's just like yeah, you know, yeah, um yeah, same thing with my my wife's first bird. Big rainstorm, you know, middle April, all the creeks and you know, everything was was elevated. You know, small streams that weren't supposed to be there were there. And her bird just comes in soaking wet. You know, they're not near as pretty.

You know, it's just yeah, she still I was stoked she killed her first bird, but man, did the experience isn't the same if it would have been and sunny. Um. I want to dive into the biology and maybe why or part of Yeah, well, I think what we're both probably hoping for is that And now after listening to Mike Chamberlain, there's even more reason to do this. But they well we're hoping for is that most of the

breeding has happened and the big flocks um have broken up. Um, and you're hoping to catch that time period when like all of a sudden, a majority of the hens are sitting, but there's still plenty of hands out there that haven't been aren't finished breathing, and so all of a sudden, the numbers skew where you know, every gobbler used to have I don't know whatever it is, the ratio of five to one, six to one, and now maybe it drops down to two to one or maybe one to one.

And and those gobblers are they're like still very primed up. They're like still ready to breed. They're talking a lot and and if you just can catch that right, you know, that right time period, man, it can just be like you're just gonna fool him like no other time and fool them easily, and it just like, you know, the competition is a lot less if you're dealing with happing to beat one two hens versus you know, a flock

of five or six. And I was told by an old timer, and whether it's true or not, is you know, those older hens are typically bread first, they start to fill, you know, their clutch of eggs up there, they're fully nesting, they're no longer being bred. And those are the hens, that kind of control those situations, Like they're more likely to tell that Tom, we're going this way away from this hen that's calling to you, which is us versus

These younger hens no longer have control over him. So if you're calling to him, yeah, he might have a hint or two, but he's like, I'm just gonna go this way because the boss in is no longer they're like telling him what he's gonna do or where he's gonna go, which you know kind of has always stuck

with me, whether it's right or wrong. I think about it that way that you know, early May, um, you know, and then that's the thing you even even in early you know, mid April, when our season's open up, you'd always still get those birds to gobble mid day, which you always thought you had a better chance. Um, you just seem to get more of them, you know, and may like you'll get more of that mid day gobbling because like you know, they're still fired up, they're still

wanting to find a hand that wanting to be bred. Um. But it just seems like it opens up that midday gabbling opportunity. You may hear more of them midday, which you know, seems to result in a better, better kill odds for for us as a turkey hunter. I'll tell you what talking about is getting me excited to go turkey Ready. Yeah, I was telling my kids it was time to start talking about turkey hunt and they're like, but it's months away. I said, yeah, you gotta get

primed up. I told him. I said, all right, I said, I won't talk about it until February. They're like, well, February is in two weeks. I'm like, I know, that's all I'm giving you. What do you have on the docket this year for pretty uh pretty exciting and full spring. I'm trying to think where we start. I want to say that the first hunt is California, where I'm hunting

with my friend room map Um. So we're gonna hunt Rio's out there, like near Napa Valley, which I've hunted before, and I came away with one of the worst cases of uh poison oak I've ever had. So I've got that top of mind to hopefully do better. I don't know what I'm gonna do. If I'm just gonna bring like five changes of clothes and never put on the same clothes, or just do a lot of scrubbing with hardcore soap. But uh, and then, um, let's see, we're

doing the TRCP turkey Hunt. Steve and I are doing that in Michigan. Um, and that's in April two. I've got a fam my annual family turkey hunt in Montana, um, where we go on camp usually for four or five days. Um. I feel like I'm missing something, but I'll probably get just some other you know days here and there in Montana. Yeah, it would be good. Oh, I almost forgot. We're going Steve and I are going to Central America for the oscillated which is kind of a turkey, not really a turkey,

kind of a turkey. Um, it looks like just as much as like a peacock, because it does a turkey. They they don't, they don't. We're not gonna be doing any me. But this is where like the skill of getting up at four o'clock in the morning and slipping through the woods and getting under his tree, Uh, is gonna come in handy because I believe sure, but I

believe that to kill one you have two options. Sit on a field that's got agging it away from the walk by which I'm not that interested in or slip through the woods in the dark and the coming dawn, and when he does, they make some sort of noise that will get that will give away their location and slip in there and then once you can see them, you shoot them off the roots, which I think is

what Steve and I are gunning for. That brings up pulling another topic for a whole another podcast on you know, like it's probably acceptable to shoot him out of the roost down you know, that type of bird down there versus you know up in North America. It's kind of like, ah, you don't want to do it that way. No. I

think some states it's even illegal. So closing this up, your honest if you had one tiper tactic to give to a turkey hunter out there that hasn't had success and this might be able to kind of turn the corner form, what would your your advice be, mm hmm, just one huh, just your one main one if you had to pick one. I mean, we all know there's a bunch of them, but just like one piece of advice that over the years has maybe helped you or

you may help them. Yeah, well, I feel like when I see a lot of beginners the mistake that they make is, um, you know, I'm not gonna go into calling. I'm gonna keep it even simpler than that. Is, like movement. People just don't seem to understand how good the turkey turkey's eyesight is and then how little they will put

up with when they catch micro movement. They might not know exactly what they saw, but they're like, man, there was a leaf that moved the wrong way over there in those bushes, and I'm just not sure, so I'm not messing with it, and I'm not gonna even run away. I'm just gonna kind of just veer and slowly feed away. And when that stuff happens, you might be like, oh man,

my decoy set up was wrong. If you're like a beginner hunter, I can almost guarantee you that, no, it was because you thought that you can move your head three or four inches and look out of the corner of your eye, because you had to look at the turkey because and and he caught your the bill of your hat moving, or he caught your gilly you know, um head net, you know, moving a little bit, your gun barrel moving a little bit, whatever it is. But

like they just won't put up with it. You've got to like the only time I move on a turkey is if I am sure that turkey's head went behind something that they cannot see through. And if it's like a bush, I'm probably not gonna move because I feel like they're going to see through the bush. And if it's like a solid tree trunk or baila hay or maybe even a fence post, like you have a half a second where you can just like you know, justust your gun two inches three inches whatever it might be,

or just your butt because it's fallen asleep. But like, yeah, man, just you gotta like you gotta sit so so still and literally let them walk in front of your gun

barrel versus trying to swing on him. There's so quick, That's what I was gonna say, Like, you know, the movement of guns even need to be like you know, sloth, Like we've thought like, oh, he's in range, like I'm gonna move my gun from my knee now and point, you know, put the beat on him, and that you know that half a second it took me to get from on my knee to you know, maybe twenty degrees.

He's gone and I can't get back on him. It's just like so he puts he puts ten yards on you, and all of a sudden, you know, you went from having like a maybe okay shot and now it's very marginal. Yeah, if you think you're moving slow enough, moved just a little bit slower or not at all. You know, it's like even head turns hunting with Chris Parris, who's did it forever, Like it might take him a minute to

look from his right to his left. You know, maybe he'll move his eyes, but then his neck turned or his head turns on his neck, just like extremely slow. Um, you know, just making sure if there's birds close that you know, no, no fast movement. Well, um, well, good luck to you this year. You're honest on all of your spring turkey outs. I really appreciate, you know, taking the time to be on the podcast today and uh yeah, thanks for having me on. You got me all fired up.

Now man, I'm gonna go home and bust out a pot call and start talking away at my and my pet turkeys and and up in my my language game perfect per have a good one. You're on his Thanks h