Ep. 13: 20 Years of Elk Hunting Experience with Cody Rich

ten years ago. I remember very distinctly. He walked in with a duct tape camo duct tape like hose hooked to a vague yellow whiffleball bat um and I'm like, man, that guy sounds good. You know, he's not using my calls, but he sounds pretty good. Um and and to my surprise, and this isn't a dig on you like and this is one of the reasons I don't like podcast is I don't think you made the finals that first year I met you, and I was like scratching my head.

I'm like, man, that guy was good. And so that that's when I met you. I think we we've stayed in touch ever since. You know, I've been on your podcast. We've talked el cunning, I followed your you know all everything you've been doing, so you know, it's cool to finally have you on here, and how are you doing, Cody good Man? Dude, that was kind of like the tail end of the competition stuff for me. I was

actually kind of like one of the bitter moments. But back in those days, I wanted to say, like pre pre felps like that in the competition circles like that was kind of like the go to you know, the whiffleball bat with like some kind of hose attached to it, like you know, not everyone had a felps bat back then. So yeah, yeah, good times. Uh yeah, But like again,

like dude, calling competitions can be so fannicated. It's like you can think he crushed it and then it just like not even place you like whatever, Yeah, I hate him because I feel like I feel like I'm like my own biggest critic um and very honest with myself. But I also know when I feel like I did good and I've just been frustrated so many times you know,

did well at them as well. But then the beats are a lot, you know, the bad beats are worse than the than the good winds, and uh, I just kind of went there and supported some of our colors and provided advice on routines and stuff. But I'm I'm kind of kind of over it. But um, yeah, it is what it is. How's everything out there in Bozeman, good Man, good Um, just getting ready for Alex season, getting pumps getting you know, just like trying to iron

out all the little pieces before season. So I mean, I'm stoked about this year. I am a little bit sugger happy, I will say, like going into it. I think the last two years I've really tried to hold out for big bowls. Um, but you know that that itch starts to come back. So I haven't killed a bow or an oak with my bow the last two years, which as long as I've ever gone, and it's like okay now like hold sparred, I'm not holding out for anything anymore. Yeah, So that that makes Yeah, that's tough.

M I remember back and I think two thousand and fifteen or I think when I didn't kill a bowl and it was like the first thing you know that next year, like the monkeys getting kicked off the back early early, Like I don't even care. We can we can build from there. It's just a building point. So that's that's good. So we're gonna start this podcast really quickly, like we do all of them before we jump in

the meat and potatoes of the podcast. If you have any questions out there, um from our listeners, UM, hit us up on social. You can email us at ct D at Phelps game Calls dot com. We'll take questions from past episodes, but we want to we want to do our our best to answer the questions. You know, we'll get Cody's opinion on the as well, but one of the questions we get the most. And you know, it's the middle of July. Now this will probably be airing,

you know, sometime in August. But as a beginner, elk color, what call should I get? Which is kind of you know, right in our wheelhouse. And and I'll give you my explanation. Um, we have a diaphragm pack. That is we call it the beginner diaphragm pack. But I also want to put the asterix on it that it it doesn't you can't necessarily outgrow that quickly. It's just a good sample pack that will give you, um, the ability to try diaphragms

that are in different spectrums of our lineup. If we were to just say, hey, go use Dirk Dirhams called the Maverick and you were a light pressure of finesse type color, you would kind of write them off that hey, these these Phelps calls won't work for us, or that you know, I just I'm just not gonna be a

good diaphragm color. Have to do something else. So we try to pick calls that are gonna, you know, cater to multiple styles and then from there, once you decide what you could you like, we will make better recommendations on how to continue. But a lot of times most guys or gals will like multiple of those calls and it works works fairly well. Um. We have a brand new call we just released UM called the Easy Sucker.

It really kind of cuts that learning curve down for people that don't know if they're gonna be able to use diaphragms and need to have that confidence going in the season very very quickly. And then on the beagle side, we you know, if you want a bugle um, which I highly recommend just to have in your arsenal, it's like a you know, a carpenter showing up to build a house with you know, half the tools and this tool box or half the tools in his van. It

just makes it easier if you have the right tools. Um, if you become a good diaphragm caller, you know, you can pick up one of our plastic tubes if you need assistance UM on biggling. The easy bigler is there, so all you have to do is place your bottom lip on on basically the amp diaphragm that is an attachment to a bagle tube. Very easy to learning, cuts out learning curve down, but um, really there's multiple ways

to do it, but I always recommend everybody try diaphragm. UM. And then we have some new you know, the easy sucker, the easy biggle that really kind of and then the easy estress that really kind of cut that learning curve down for people that may not be able to master diaphragms. UM. And then you know, whether it's even our brand or something that you just have to make sure that the

fits right. There's so many different mouth shapes and styles and latex stretches, like you just need to find something that you're going to be confident with what's your recommendation for new ELK callers where to start and and try to try to cut that learning curve down as fast as possible. Cody, You know, it's funny, um Like when I started, I remember, you know, getting readson whatnot and trying to do it and then trying to help people

do it. Uh. Like it's it's such a learning curve to to want you to get into the whole reads game, right, But I do think it's worth doing, It's worth practicing. I say that because you, you of all people, have like made it so easy for people to be able to call without reads that now I'm like, maybe I don't know, maybe you don't even need them anymore because like you know, the new socker call, Like I I've always had either like an open read call, uh, you know,

some kind of external call uh. And I like having that just like you said in Arsenal, just as it's a different call. But a lot of those is really hard to have. Hit those like soft quiet calls like you would with a read or something. They just have never historically been like great at that being quiet, right, Like we use them because I can hit that hyper level and get a bolt of bugle off a cow call. Uh,

maybe he wouldn't answer another bugle. But now you have like this the socker call, which is like you can hit those I mean, it sounds so much like a read, it's crazy to me. Um and then say that the easier easy bugle ar Like I think those two like, honestly, in today's day and age, you could get away with just those two calls. Uh as a beginner. And I even struggle to be like, yeah, I think you should

get good at reads. But you know, if if you just can't, don't want to, don't want to put them in the effort, Uh, then I think you can get by on those two calls. No, And I'm I'm a little bit torn, you know. There there's the idea that I had to struggle through to get really good at diagrams,

and and we're cutting that learning curve. But ultimately, um, at least this is what I tell myself so I can get over that is you know, it's it's really experience, you know, It's why would I be selfish enough to you know, or selfish to the point where no, you need to struggle through and maybe just people don't have the resolve that I did to not give up or or the time. Um, so I that's my goal going

into this. As we identify problems, you know, we get to listen to a lot of um where they struggle calling UM people that just aren't having the same experience out there that we are because we can run diaphragms very well. And so that's really my point going in is let's make something where they can be as good as us, you know, very very quickly without as much time.

And this is my other uh, you know, this is at least what I tell myself, Um, I'd rather have a bunch of guys out there that can call good then a bunch of guys out there that are calling bad. And and you know, my reasoning for that is not educating elk, not screwing things up. And at least if you sound like an elk, um, there's not a bunch of education going on. So at least that's what I

told myself. But who knows if that's right or not. Dude, one, I would rather have someone behind me, like coming in on me with with the new socker call than hitting a hoochie mama, because like how many times have we've been there where like somebody you can hear them coming down the mountain, like you know, you get a bowl. This happened. This happened to me last year. So I'm working this this bowl and I get right at daylight. I'm on him, and it's very evident that calling I

don't need to call. It is pure chaos, and I just need to like stay close right, and I'm basically dogging this heard and uh, I hear it. I hear like the pretty most bugle, and then I hear the hoochie mama, and I hear the hoochie mamma come and write in and like I'll shut up, and I'm in like I'm in the herd, like I'm in the red zone. All I need is just something to go right in

my situation. You know, I'm within sixty yards of cows, and here comes the hoochie mama, and like they're like heads up looking and the like, they start to move away, and then he just keeps hitting it and they'd kind of go, you know, a couple hundred yards, and I'd be right there with him, and here comes the hoochie mama again, and I'm like I would have much rather had you know, someone with a you know, a Phelps sucker call back there to or at least it sounded

somewhat like an elk, you know. So I don't know, we've all been in the the the hoochie mama situation. Yep, yep. So that's that's my recommenation. I'm beginning colors. There's no there's no right answer because we don't really know what

a beginner needs. You might be a high pressure, high volume, lots of air type of color, or you might be the complete opposite and finesse light, subtle sounds, and there's no real good answer it Just try a few and then we'll quickly hopefully find a solution, and then we can stick with that moving out the next The next question is more of a statement that I just wanted to elaborate on. We get a lot, I want to sound like a small bull. What diaphragm should I get?

And they usually um follow that up with some scenario where they feel or tell us that, you know, sounding like a big bull is gonna scare everything off. And so I wanted to elaborate this on this um statement and kind of turn into a question and give my my two cents. Um. It came up at a seminar I was out the other day. Um, I've been very fortunate, you know, my my hunting buddies, Charlie Smith, you know, Schmidt, Tyson, Gabriel.

I get to hunt with a lot of great elk colors who were on the upper end of uh you know volume, they're they're good colors. They call loud. And so I've had you know, Charlie twenty yards to my right and had a real bull coming in seventy yards you know, to my left or whatever it may be. And no matter what Charlie does or what I can do, we can't match the intensity of even some of these

smaller Raghorn bulls as they come in. Everything is louder, everything's deeper, everything is more intense from the real elk. And so I kind of turned that question on people, why do you want to sound like a small bull? Um? You know? And it's typically I don't want to scare the big ones away, or I don't want to scare the small ones away. Um, I don't think it's possible. And then I'm also going to go on, um, I'm I'm a very loud color. I got a giant set

of lungs on me. Whatever I did throughout learning to call, I figured out how to control read, and I would say I'm in the top one percent volume wise, So I I get even louder when I'm out in the woods, um than I than I do on stage and whatnot, so very very loud color. But if you if you go to look at my rafters where I grew up cutting my teeth here in my backyard, you will literally see the longest lineup of one fifty two one seventy type raghorn bulls that came in me me calling as

loud as I can. So I I use two different um you know branches on this argument. That number one you can't call as out as a real elk no matter what you do. So why would you even want to, you know, tone that down, you know, or bring that back, cut that volume down a little bit. Anyways, But then the statistics, you know, the statistics and what I've been able to call in even with trying to call big herd bulls, and usually I end up calling the satellite

bowling with those large beagles. Anyways, So I'm I'm a very you know, I'm a proponent I I I advocate for going out and calling as big as possible. But what's your take on that? Do you ever go out? I mean I will, in certain sense instances and situations go out there and try to you know, I will spike squeal, I will give out small rag horn beagles, but it's very very appointed and um, in very certain situations. Um. But but most time I'm out there cranking at a

hundred percent. Yeah. So I would say, like, generally speaking, I get where people are coming from. They want to sound, you know, like a small ball. They think that bring that has more options. Right. Um, I would say, like you said I would, I would say most people don't have the problem that they sound too big. They just don't know how to have the right inflection. And I would say far far more people are not loud enough. That is a much much bigger issue that like you're

bugling too quietly and nothing can hear you. Uh, is a far bigger issue. I've listened to a lot of people bugle. I've listened to Phelps people too, and he's ridiculously loud. Uh. And so I would say, like there's it's a far bigger issue that you can't be loud enough, then you're being too big. Like you said, like I can, I can run any call to sound. I don't even want to say small. I would say less aggressive is a better term. Um. And there's scenarios where I would

use that, So like the first half a season. Uh, you know, elks elk er in a timber patch and I slip in there. I know they're in this area and I'm gonna sound like a lazy bowl. I use the term lazy bowl more than I would say a small ball. Uh. And that's what the you know, like it could be a small but basically, I'm just not being super aggressive when I don't need to be. Uh. And I think that's probably what people are trying to

say more so than a small ball. It's like we've all heard really really big bulls give us lazy bugles, you know, bugles from their bed um, those type of things, and and it's not that they're small, it's that you know they're they're very passive aggressive in that. And I think that's what people are going for us, Like, how do I be more passive aggressive and not ridiculously aggressive? There's times to have both, right, you don't want to walk into a situation. You know, say you get into

a timber patch. You know, there's smoke bedded in here, and you're probably within two hundred yards, and then you just rip off a you know, a big loud bugle and maybe these are pressured elk and so they're just gonna balance out of there or not say anything, you know, Whereas if I throw the lazy bugle at them, you know, maybe it takes you know, five or six, maybe ten or fifteen bugles over an hour period, and finally I

get a response out of him. You know, I'm not pressuring that bowl, but I'm trying to figure out where he is in this, in this in this timber pact with me. Uh. And so like again I sent him it to you. Like what you said is like, I don't really try to sound small. There's just moments where I can give a less aggressive call. Uh. And I don't. To me, the read does not matter. I mean Charlie's read. I would struggle with it a little bit. I could still do it, um, you know. And so those those

two those are tougher to give. The spike squeals and stuff. Uh. But I think pretty much once you can run a read you can do it with any of them for sure. And I'm gonna piggyback on this real quick before we jump out of the questions Um from the listeners, is Cody mentioned um? Volume is usually attached or a yeah. It goes along with trying to sound like a small bowl versus a big bull. But you know, for for skilled colors, we can just tone it back like I

can take my I call the Maverick. Tone it back and sound smaller with us volume. But you can't go the obstit direction. If I'm using a call that's lighter and latex, lighter and stretch. When I'm hunting big canyon country, you know, we might be in a three thousand foot drainage, two thousand foot drainage, big um, you know, big country. For me to get the game going, I need that

call to reach as many elk as possible. So I'm taking as much volume as I can get all the time, because there are days or there are weeks where we go through where you know, these elk just aren't really biggling on their own. We have to get them kind of going or we need you know, it might be big country and it takes you a couple of hours to get there, so we kind of missed the the morning action, and we still need to get these things to crank up. And I want that loud you know,

crisp diaphragm. You know that is typically associated with quote unquote a big bull read to to go in there and hammerm. And another great option which really cranks up the volume even more is that easy bugler um you know, mouthpiece. It's just extremely loud. But that's one reason I to go out armed with a bunch of different options. You know, I can you know, I do have lighter reads for real subtle cal calls, but we can do it all.

But that's one reason. Another reason I like to go out there and have a big bull read or extra volume is just to reach and locate, right, I mean generally speaking, Like in the old days, it was like you had caw reads and you had big bull reads and and like you know, those those triples, you know,

those heavy stretched triples. Uh, you know, they can be tough to do little soft cal calls, But at the same time, those cal reads, like you just can't get very allowed with them because when you hit that octave, that high pitch, it's just you can't have the volume and so you just can't really get the the located them as nearly as well and at least not as loud. Yeah.

So well, once again, if you have any questions of your own you'd like us to try to tackle here on cutting the distance, email us at ct D at helps game Calls dot com will do our best to get them on here. So now we're gonna roll into my questions for you. Um, you had to post the other day on Twitter that seemed to gain a lot of traction and it brought up a good point and I'm like, hey, you know that that would be a great topic um for the podcast. So we're just gonna

kind of run through these in um it. What your post was some things I wish I knew about elk hunting twenty years ago, which uh, you know there there's all kinds of you know, what we've did wrong, which we've learned from. But these are more statements that you know, a little bit of skill, a little bit of um, you know, mental um toughness, a little bit of physical toughness. So we're just gonna kind of go through elaborate on

you know, how these have you know, impacted. Uh, you know, and and why we think these are things we wishing you twenty years ago, because it's obvious we probably made some mistakes or it's been screwed up along the way. Um, but I think most of us can look back what we did twenty years ago laugh a little bit and then um, but it was all part of figuring out our system, what works and ultimately what made us better

elk hunters. So the first one that that we've got here and I Cody, I just went to your Twitter post and we just kind of stole these. But so, um, luck luck is great when it comes, but consistency is the thing that separates the lucky from the unlucky. Um, go ahead and elaborate on that. And then I've got some you know, some stories that that kind of run

into that or as well. Yeah, um, you know, I mean like consistency is I think there's people, there's a lot of people who who would go into the woods, like and they're kind of just going out there be like, man, I hope I get lucky this year, and and you know, when it comes, it comes, and like, um, I'll take those lucky strikes when they happen, like one of my

one of my best bowls I ever killed. I was literally taking a nap and like almost got stepped on and you know, I had to crawl fifteen yards in my bow and it was chaos, and like I'm not too proud to be like, yeah, I'll take that luck when it comes. But you know, being consistent. I think when you look at a career over time, it's like just doing things consistent, finding your rhythm, finding like you had said, your your own system. I think we all have like, hey, here's what works for us, and we

create that system. And just being super consistent, being consistent in the days you put in, like doing the work, you know, and all those things. Like that's what when you find elk hunters who have been successful, you know, year in and year out, you know they got twenty racks hanging on the wall, it's usually they're very consistent, right, Um. You know, Like there's there's the same analogy in business. It's like it's about doing the little things. Well yeah,

and I think this is true for l cunning. It's like, you know, you instead of being like, oh man, that guy got lucky. Er, oh he hunts private, or he does this or whatever it's like. No, they have a really good system and they learned how to execute it right, and they they're very consistent within that system, and they're very consistent year over year. And I think you know, you find those things to be true. Yeah, and you know, the same same as you. I'll take luck when it

when it comes. You know. There have been multiple times where you know, I can remember one time we didn't end up well, we did end up later killing the bull. But in two thousand fourteen, Um, we we were struggling. UM Kelly Smith, Charlie's wife, had drawn into Cannon Tag and we were in Elk every day, but we just, for one reason or another, nothing would work out. Um. We had just screwed up on maybe our twentieth bull,

you know, the hunt. And it's just like we were just sitting there kind of just frustrating, and we could hear all of a sudden a satellite bowl ripping off. We didn't move from our spot. Were like we were almost to the point where we were throwing a big pisci fit. Charlie didn't want to move, like script, I'm not even chasing that bowl. Um. We literally sat there and that bowl ran up the ridge across the little drainage and ran right back down the same ridge and

ran into us. Like that's luck. Like we didn't do anything. We were literally sitting in a spot and that bowl you know, came into us. Now you know, she ended up missing, but that was that was a hunt where like no skill was ever, you know, was required. Yeah, we had put ourselves in that spot, but um, we didn't know that bowl even lived at the time we went to that spot and it literally ran right into

us when we made a conscious effort to we're not moving. Um. But but similar to you, I don't want to go out into the woods or out into the elk mountains, whatever you wanna call it, with only having luck on my side. I want to build consistent success year in and year out, and by being lucky, it's not gonna happen.

Like I think those are the and not saying anything bad, but that's the other ten you know, the Yeah, that's the hunters that kill ten of the elk, you know, it's it's the it's the guys that rely on that luck for things to come into play. Um, And so I expect and one thing I just wanted to elaborate on this which you consistency. I expect to be successful

every morning, every night, every afternoon. Everything I do in the Elk Woods, I've either drawn up a plan where I can honest least see the end result being me notching it to egg or standing over a dead bull or my buddy standing over a dead bull. And if I can't get to the point where I feel that my plan is that consistent, I need to change my plan right because going it, I'm not a life coach. I'm not a big motivational speaker. But we're getting a

little bit there. If I can't draw up a plan or buy into a plan where I can see that as an option somewhere throughout, you know, every everything I do that day is a building block towards killing an elk. If I honestly don't believe that, and I've got to like talk myself into that or lie about it, I'm

now going into that. I've been there that that situation I'm now hunting, you know, at a very low confidence and where you're just literally walking through the paces and you don't feel that everything you're doing is leading to that success. It's just not great. And so if I consistency, Like everything we do is a pointed movement appointed use of energy, and and we're we're trying to continue on that,

you know, that consistent success. So um, yeah, a little off track there, but that's kind of how I go about it in my head, that everything we do is leading up to that, that consistent success. And I think it's tough when you're first starting out. You don't have a system. You don't have like you don't have gout intuition even really, um, you don't have a base of knowledge, a base of experiences that you've built to where you're like, Okay, I just need to keep doing this. You know, we're

we're we're hitting it. We're close. Um, A great example, And I'm sure you've been here. We've all been there. You're you're going out and like sometimes like man, just yet twenty bowls, you you just haven't gotten close to you know, like something goes wrong every single time, Like, man, am I being too aggressive? Am I not being aggressive enough? Uh?

You know it's like and then you start switching and you're like, oh, you're going back and forth and you know what, what I've tried to do and I'm not not perfect at this bunny stretch. But like, Okay, here's what I'm gonna do. I'm gonna execute this playbook over and over and over. And I know this playbook works because it's work in the past. But if I executed enough times, I'm going to be successful versus well, maybe

I should sit water. Oh maybe I should just you know, spot stuff like you're switching up and then you're like you start to have that self doubt you like, let's go over here, let's go over there, and you start bouncing around and it's like, Okay, we're not executing a system right now. It's like you can figure out your system and execute it well right and eventually it might not work out every single time, but you know, if you do the same plan, you kind of work through

your system. Uh. And that sounds super boring, right, Like it sounds like, well, no, I want to just want to go out and be spontaneous. And I think when you try to just be spontaneous and go where the wind blows, that's a good recipe for like only relying on luck. Not not entirely, but I would say like it leans a lot more that way, Yeah, for sure, And that your your point there at the end kind of rolls into your next point is being aggressive as a skill knowing when to be patient as a skill.

But the balance between those two is an art. Um and so all, I'll kind of roll into this one first. Um I'm a very very aggressive hunter and caller. Um And and being patient as a skill. I would say I've learned a lot more over the last twenty years, because I would say, you rewind twenty years ago, everything was aggressive and I wasn't able to I would say I wasn't able. I just was unwilling to roll that back ever. Um And And as you just mentioned, my

calling system is very very prescriptive. We do this, you know, with within some confines, it's always gonna be a little bit different, but it's basically, we're gonna check the wind, We're gonna get as close as the terrain and vegetation allows us to. We are going to you know, take his temperature. We're going to make this call, and we're

going to do that over and over and over. So I call it, you know, very prescriptive calling in a very prescriptive system, which usually the underlying theme is us being very aggressive, getting very close, not letting time pass, why why we kind of got what we have on the table. Um. But I also as I've gotten older, and one of the things it's probably I would say, have made me a better elk hunter or more successful elk hunter, is being able to be a little bit

more patient. And so this I now look at it like, I have my basis, my my base system, which is very aggressive, but I will make slight changes to that based system based on how the elk are reacting, because I would be a fool to just say, you know what, these elk in this area aren't biggling quite like they were last year. They're very lacks of days of coal. But I'm gonna just keep going in and hammering them and you know, seven, eight, nine, ten times in a row,

just blown them out. So I'm like, I'm still gonna get close, but I'm gonna maybe change up my calling just slightly. Now. I'm not gonna I'm not gonna be less aggressive, but I may, you know, so I do. I want to be aware and cognizant that that my old system that worked last year or in a different area or a different area that had different bold of

cow ratios, whatever it may be. Timing of the rut um making making slight changes, but I agree, Um, I feel like I'm finally getting to that point where I know how to mix skill and and add in sprinkling just enough patients to to make make myself like, you know, a more balanced hunter. UM. And you you said it's kind of an art, which is you know, yeah, I wouldn't say anything about me as art, but it's just it's more of the idea that that it's kind of just like made me a better elk hunter at this

point by not just going in. UM. I can remember back and I think it was oh eight or o nine and one of my buddies, um trevied he said he was gonna archery hunt for elk finally that year. And uh, I don't know if he was ready to like just loose an arrow into the back of my calf eventually. But you know, the system that I had developed, we had busted probably. You know that was back in the good old days here where not a lot of people were archery hunting, UM, and we had just been

busting out. I'm like, this is the system I've used, like we've been using it, We've been successful, and you know, we'd getting close and we'd end up blowing the herd out, and he was just like, man, I'm gonna I'm going nuts, like we're about ready to I'm not hunting with you anymore, and I'm like, you just gotta trust in the system, you know. But it ultimately did work out. But it was that style of I'm gonna get sixty sevent yards from these elk and then we're gonna hit him with

a giant bugle. Where now if I was to rewind, like we would still get, you know, fairly close, but we would do things a little bit differently, you know. And it was just it's a difference on blowing four or five herds out versus maybe blowing one or two of those out and getting collins on the other one. So um, yeah, No, I like that statement. And uh, for me, patience has only come with age because I'm a super impatient elk hunter. Uh yeah. And I don't know if it's you know, with with the age that

we've become more patient. Yeah. I grew up, you know, same as you like, and that worked really well. I mean, we we grew up hunting Roosevelt. So that was being aggressive of this name of the game. There wasn't nearly as many hunters, and you know, not to not to pick on anyone, but it's like, I feel like a lot of us cut our teeth and that super restive blow them out. I'll find more elk mentality, and it worked for a lot of years, and in my opinion, I could be wrong, but I said my opinion that

dynamic has changed a little bit. And you know, I went from Okay, I knew the call game. I knew it really what I could do that I had that system, you know, much like your system. It was like, I'll just keep finding more elk and I know the system works. It just it'll have to play out, and it plays out, and now every year, you know, you'd play out. And then I went to you know, eastern Montana, and I actually,

I just want to started hunting Montana. I learned from some guys that had killed giants and you know, they never touched a call and I was like, Okay, I want to learn this. It's it's not for me, but I want to learn it. And so I you know, I went there and I've spent now almost five years, uh, and I do a lot more glassing and spotting and stocking. I love the fact, you know, And to me, it's always been about mastering the game and not mastering one technique.

And so it's like, I how many times have I put myself in a situation where it's like, man, I could go in there and and call these elk, but you know, I'm gonna try to learn this technique of hunting, this open country stuff, and and so now I'm at a place where I feel like I'm super dangerous whether an elk goes into a thick timber patch or whether they stay out in the wide open. You know, to me, it's always about just kind of learning mastering the game

as a whole and not mastering one system. But within that that taught me a lot of patients. You know, I still one pcent believe there are times where I can go in and challenge a herd bull Uh that's in a timber patch, even in the most open country, right. I just I now know both games, whereas most people who open country would never uh never think to go in there and do that. Like, no way, I'll just wait until my opportunity comes. And so like it's that's

the balance. To me, it's always been like super aggressive in my early days and during that time, those those tactics work, and then I became much more patient. And as I started hunting, like one particular bowl, like you have to be really really patient, and I think I was like too sometimes too patient there, and that that's why I always say there's an art when you balance the two of like when to be aggressive and when

to be patient. And man, that takes a lot of time, a lot of app bats to figure out, but I do think there's a balance, and and to me, it's like I think it's almost a necessity. I think there's a ton of people teaching, like be super aggressive and that's what works for them. It works for them ten years ago, but like now there's twice as many elk hunters. The elk are more like they're more pressure than they've ever been. Uh, And so I you know, I feel like more now than ever, you have to be able

to balance when to make that move. I'm still fine with being aggressive going in there and challenge peopling, but like it's got to be a very calculated decision because you just don't get it as many apt bats with herds, you know, And when we were you know, I don't know, let's say two thousand five to two thousand and ten, like it felt like you could just go screw up or her bouncing the next one, screwup or herd bounce the next one, and there was always more elk to

be messed with right where ass Today it's like you're getting less opportunities and you kind of have to be more careful. Not to say you don't be aggressive, because I don't think that's the answer, because I think you still can be aggressive in certain situations. Again, just finding that balance for sure. The next one, I don't like Cody, but I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna and I'm gonna elaborate on that. Learn to be comfortable alone. It's a

superpower few have, which I don't like. That would be if I was, that would be my kryptonite. Um, I've never well shoot, I mean around home. You know when I used to hunt here, I would hunt alone. You know. It was I learned by the school of what I would call heart. You know, if there was a hard Knox of hunting, it was the idea that my dad and my uncle and my grandpa and his brothers learned to hunt this way. It was I'm scared to death of big timber and they would drop us off in

these big canyons here around home. You know. We would glass clear cuts the first hour and a half maybe hour, and then they would drop you off in a timber patch and they would literally say, you hunt down this canyon. There'll be a bridge at the bottom, will pick you up at five to night. Um. I'm like, I was scared to death, and and I always joke with my dad like I could maybe thank you for making me figure out how to be a great elkhun right off

the bat. I learned to kill elk because I was more scared of trying to get through this big timber patch and not get lost. So if I killed an elk, I could jump on the radio and tell these guys like, hey, you guys gotta come find me now, you know, versus me happen to hunt for that, you know, next eight hours down a canyon. Um. And so I was kind of joked that it made me a better elk hunter because the quicker I could find these elk and kill him, um, the less I had to be by myself out there.

But no, I I don't do well. Um and and over the last you know, I did some deer hunts this year by my self, but um, you know it's just one day or is like overnight? Really probably would you know, and it wouldn't bother me. It's just I feel confident, like I like the balance ideas, even if it's my camera guy or if it's just my buddy, Like, hey, you know the elker here. Do you think that you

know they're that far away through that direction? Um, I don't have the superpower of being able to necessarily be alone, um overnight, multiple overnights. Um. So I can't really elaborate on that one, but I agree it is it is a great um you know, uh option to have. I I just don't know how I I guess I've never tested myself either. But UM, I don't like the idea of it, which is is probably why you should do it,

um you know. And I think there's another one. I said, I don't know if this is on the list you want to cover, but you know I do. First off, I do believe that a great hunting partner is worth three times the cost of having another tag to fill, and a bad partner is cost three times as much.

And what I mean by that is like you're going to hunt and say I have another body, right, I've been a solo hunter for so long that, uh, it seems funny to me, like why I would take someone else hunting, because it's like, now I just get a hunt half the time, you know, give me a ten day hunt, and like now I'm trying to fill your tag for at least five but you know I'm probably more than that. And and so it's like it's always been funny to me, like why would I take someone else?

I don't really need anyone else. Um, And we've all been there on a bad experience where you you take someone hunting and it's just like, oh my god, Like it's you know, they drag you down, they don't want to go places. Uh you know, they're just mentally not as strong as you, and so it drags you down

as well. And so like, outside of that, I do think that hunting alone, one of the things that I've been able to do is like, once once you're at the point where you're comfortable with being alone and and kind of just operating in your own headspace, is like

I don't have to rely on anyone else's decision. Uh, that's good and bad, right, But I also I never have I never not do something because is like, even if you and I were together, And maybe this is not the perfect example, but if you and I were together, it would be like, well, I don't know if I want to go down there, I don't know if Jason wants to go, I'll just we'll just stay up here. We'll just do this, you know, like you tend to

take things differently, you do a different procedure. And I've just found that when I'm alone, I push myself farther than if I'm with someone. And that sounds kind of intuitive, um, but like for me, it's just like I've always pushed myself farther when I'm alone, and I'm like, Okay, I can make this decision. I can move quicker. I don't

have to think about it, you know. The one downside is that, man, there's so many times where I wish I could just be like, there's a guy calling for me a hundred yards away, and this would have been a done deal, you know, but I don't know. To me, like it's just it's a great superpower because it allows me to do uh, push do more uh and not have to like run decisions, not have that like decision fatigue of like hey do you want to do this?

Do you not want to do this? Overthinking things? Yeah, no, We're I'm gonna have a couple of points to add to that and kind of skip four were to that good hunting partners versus bad Uh. One thing I would recommend to everybody if you don't have a die hard hunting partner, like, don't assume the guy that you get along with three fifty days out of the year is going to make a great hunting partner, because I don't know what it is about elk hunting. Um, you know,

physical fatigue, mental fatigue, things not going your way. But um, a normal friendship may not work very well you know in the elk would so make sure you went scouting with this person, like you know, playing some shorter trips like two or three days scouting. Um, You're I've been fortunate. Um, but here's where my good hunting partners You don't John Nick, Charlie, you know, Dirk, these guys that I've hunted with, is

that decision making um or calling? You know, I get frustrated if I'm the shooter, and the color is like not doing what I want them to do. And then you know, the first thing enters your head is like this idiot, you know, even though they're you're one of your best buddies, Like why doesn't this guy know how to call elk? You know, and you start the question, Well, then it you know, some of the battling of like, well, it's my day to hunt, I want to go here.

But then I'm trying to give like very good educated you know, because we've all been there. We've all got our own experience as we pull from Like John, I don't want to cross the creek and go up the

other side. I want to stay on our side of the drainage because you know, of of this, this and this, and we were there two days ago and there were multiple herd bowls in a rut fest, and but it's like it's his day to hunt, and so now I'm like pissed at John the rest of the day, you know, or whatever it may be, Like we went on the other side, it's you know, or you go over there and it sucks, and then you're kind of like told you so all day, like should just listen to my plan.

I've been here, you know enough. But you know, with with respect for him, he's also been in situations enough. Um. So yeah, it's a lot of that decision making where if you are solo, um, you know, you just get to do what you want to do. But yeah, I mean it's like as as you like you think about like dogging and herd. Um, I would say if you're if your go to tactic is like, oh, we're gonna fin located milk, move in and we're gonna try to call him in. Then having a pardon or really it

does help. Or even those situations where like one guy stays up on the hill, keep them talking, I'll moving.

Those are great for having a hunting partner when it comes to dogging or herd or like just you know moving as quietly as you can or or you know, putting a stock on our herd generally speaking, like it's not beneficial to have a second person, right, and so like there's just certain situations for me, it just I don't know, I always worked out better to be solo, yep, until you have to pack them out and then I'm like, man, I wish Yeah, yeah, it's yeah, it's funny how that works.

But I might have to one of these days. I'm have to plan a hunt where it's just me and see if I'm if I'm tough enough to do it. So the next one here is something you can control in a game of unknowns. A crutches, the device that someone depends on. No the difference. Um, yeah, I mean I can go like, what's your thought? Okay, So a

lot of the stems from m I talked. I mean, it's been a lot of time I talked to new hunters and whatnot, and I feel like a lot of people are, oh, should I get this tent or this camo or this gear or this thing, And I don't know, since for a long time, I've kind of always said, like, by tags, not gear, and I mean by experiences and stop worrying about equipment. I was dude, dead, broke, poor, whatever you want to call it growing up, and we didn't have options. And so when I came in, I

mean a hunted since I can remember. So gear has never really been like a thing for me. Like there's things I wish I had or wanted to have, but I've just kind of operated on this, like I just hunt with what I have, and that's a mentality. I think it's different when you come into it adult onset hunting, if you will, and you're like, Okay, what do I need? And I get the argument that you're like, okay, I want to be comfortable because then I'll stay out there longer.

I understand that argument. I don't really agree with it as as much because it's like I've just done this when I was poor and had nothing, and so like, to me, it never really made sense. But I think it's like you can try to worry about what gear you have and what's going to be this and it's in a world of like, Okay, I'm gonna go into this new unit. Maybe I'm going into the wilderness, uh, and and like I just don't know what's gonna happen,

I you know, all these things. I think people try to worry about what what gear they're gonna take because it's the only thing that they can tangibly controls, the only thing they can like, oh if I get the best of this, right, and I I feel like that's a little bit of a crutch for trying to maybe better understand you know, even just he scouting right or like working through scenarios or like just trying to figure

out what all the game plans are. Uh. And that's a better to me, a better use of my worry than what pants I'm wearing. And I do feel like people tend to key in on that gear, uh more than I don't know, say, like, if I look at all the greatest hunters that I looked up to and respected growing up, that we're like, you know, they none

of them care. They were blue jeans and flannels, you know, but they got it done and so like, to me, I just feel like there's a lot of adult onset hunters that worry about, you know, their gear too much. I get it. If you like going to like I totally disagree, blah blah blah blah blah. No, no, I'm I'm fully on board with that. Um I would say twenty years ago, Um, you know, when I didn't have

great gear, I was always looking to upgrade pieces. But if you were, I don't even I get a hunt with a lot of people, and you know, some people have got like the nicest news gear and it's like organized and like and this isn't necessarily right to the idea, but it's in the nicest. You know, it's in the perfect little pocket, folded up in the perfect spot. You go to look at me, like all my stuff is just like jammed in a bag. I know that it's gonna work, you know. I grew up similar to you.

You know, my dad's and my dad and my uncle's. They were the guys that hunted in white New Balance tennis shoes so they could make sure they weren't stepping on sticks and making noise. You know. That's how they were taught. You. You know, the elk don't know you live, and they hunted in sweatpants and a red flannel, you know, or their their logging jeans, depending on how hot it was and how quiet they wanted to be. Um, you know.

And and so gears one of those things I don't even think about, or I don't necessarily associate with my success, similar to you, it's it's there. I want to have very nice gear. But we've all, I don't say we all. I get the fortune of seeing a lot of these guys, you know, because they're they're struggling year in a year out, and they can't seem to kind of break that barrier

to success. But they've always got the newest bow, and they've always got brand new rain gear, and they've got a new pack this year, and they've got now by all means, if if that makes you feel more confident, But I agree with you, And the reason it becomes a crutch is because they feel that somehow that new gear is bridging the gap to their success, when really they probably can't shoot the new you know, two bow any better than they could one bow, or those new

pants they're wearing aren't gonna get them to the next ridge back because they didn't spend the time to get in shape, you know. And so it that's where that gear becomes a crutch, Like, yeah, you've got it, and maybe in your head it's like a placebo or kind of that fall as confidence. But yeah, don't don't rely on your gear because gear is never killed an animal.

It's just added to the comfort. It's added to the ability to go deeper, farthest, stay longer, um, you know, whatever it may be, but it's not going No piece of gear is going to make you a better elk hunter, um, you know, without knowing how to use it and putting it into action. And that's why I just believe it's it can be a crutch. Is if I worry that's the thing I'm worrying about or trying to improve, it means I'm taking my focus off worrying and improving something else.

And I think there's far better things if you just want to be successful to improve than you know what pair of pans you were? Yep, I agree that completely. The next one. There is compounding success in doing the same thing year after year, but there comes a point when it hurts your growth. And we touched on this one a little bit earlier. Um with more of the aggressive um and then knowing when to be patient. That's

probably the biggest um. You know, when we talk about the same thing you're after, you're being prescriptive, but then you know, you taking the chance and and like I'm gonna learn the spot and stock me taking the chance of not being so aggressive and learning you know, timing when to be as aggressive as I used to, but

when to kick it back a notch um. There was never a situation back twenty years ago when I you know, or or farther when I started this, if I had a bowl, you know, seven twenty in the evening and it was gonna be dark by eight I was bombing over there with like every you know, last ditch effort. I had to go over there and kill that bowl.

Now there may be an instance where I'm like, you know what, We're gonna sit back, make sure that bowl doesn't smell us, make sure he doesn't know that there's you know, another elk you know, also known as me trying to call him in like there's it just is gonna be a better situation if we don't mess with him until the morning or the thermals are going to be right, you know, rather than risking it. And so I'm you know, very similar to the one we talked

about earlier. For me, it turns into more of an aggressive or you know, learning new styles and picking up um, you know, just recognizing um. And then there's just more experience um like you get the you know, I've been very fortunate five or six weeks a year for the last um, you know, five years elk hunting, and a lot before that. Just the more I can stack up and experience, the more I'm like, hey, I've been in

this situation before. I've tried to do this twenty times the same way, and it's failed every time, let's recognize that, draw up a different plan, and let's go do that, you know. So, yeah, I agree. If if I only ever did the aggressive calling the same way every time, I wasn't becoming a better elk hunter. And even if you know what, I consider myself successful. But I'm still going out every day, every every minute out there, I'm

trying to learn and just hone my skills and get better. Yeah, And I think like the basic version of this is, uh, you know, you find success in something, and there's two types of people. There's the type of person that just keeps renting and repeating until it stops working, and then there's the type of person who wants to grow. And so it's like, how how do you want to define your set success? And you can define your success is

like oh, how many bulls I've killed? Right? And I think the best way to do that is to hunt the same spot, the same area and do the same things, like, because you'll get really good at that. You could, you know, shoot a five point Roosevelt every single year. At the end of your career, you'll have thirty five point Roosevelts, you know what I mean. And maybe a couple of you know, booners in there because you know that's what

came through. You see it with fishing, right, um, fishing is actually a decent example of this is like there's people who can do this one thing really well and they can rent and repeat it um. And then there's people who like I want to go I want to master my craft and learn different techniques. I want to learn different fish, want to go to new areas and the same Like to me, like that's how you you

focus on getting better. So like a great like good example, I you know, didn't kill an elk the last two years, but did I grow as an elk hunter a hundred percent? Like I've gone far better. You know, I could have just stayed hunting the September and doing the call game and probably killed elk every year, but like, you know, I took two years to kind of I wouldn't even say go backwards, but to grow and in my knowledge

of the game. Right, And I was like, Okay, I want to you know, I want to master all these aspects of the game, and that's gonna help me grow because at the end of the day, I could go back, you know, I could go back to Oregon and hunt roosevelts, and I still know that game. But what I've picked up by hunting the open country, um, you know, hunting the breaks in Montana is going to teach me a lot about you know, hunting roosevelts. You have a different thing.

My patience has grown. Like the most simple version is like, yeah, my patience has grown a lot. You know, I'm way more patient on which attacks I make, which moments I you know, make those attacks, and so just like, okay, do you want to grow? And so I don't know, it's it's uh just kind of a blanket statement of like, are you trying to be successful? Ak shoot one elk? Are you trying to increase your ability as an el connor to be successful? Yeah? And that's that's where I

was at UM. I had a great Idaho spot and and to this day when we walked out of it, I haven't been back since um two thousand seventeen and the place is just on fire. But we had three good years in there, and I'm like, I can can probably you know similar, I can rinse and repeat. Just like you said, I know the area, I know where the elk rat. But it wasn't satisfying anymore, and people can be like, well, and this is where, and I

don't I don't dodge it at all. Sport hunting versus like filling the freezer, and I like to do both. I wanted to go fill the freezer in a different area, and you can call it sport, but I wanted to challenge myself because ultimately my goal and it can be I don't know why it's even said as a goal.

I would love to be dropped into any area, whether it's the mountains, whether it's a sage brush, whether it's the arid desert of Arizona and New Mexico, whether it's the mountains of Idaho, wherever it is, and I want to be the best elk hunter possible at that point when somebody dropped me in there. Um, it's kind of a weird. It's a weird idea, but I want to be if you give me a gun, you know, late November. I want to be a smart NFL hunter. I know

what those elk are doing. You know, their their outfeed and they're recuperating from the rut. They're gonna be off on their own versus you put me in you know, super pre rut in Western Washington, and I want to know what to do. I want to be that that type of elk hunter that knows it all from you know, a to z any situation any time of year. Um. So yeah, I still haven't been back to Idaho. I literally left the place on fire with bull's biggle and like crazy and uh, it just is what it is.

I wanted to see, you know, life short. We only get so many years to do this, and I just wanted to see other country and challenge myself in different ways. But um yeah, no, um, you know we should we should do this some day. I keep saying I'm gonna do this. Um. I would love to challenge myself to go to Colorado and be like, okay, how many days is the tech to killing elk um? Because I'm never

hunted in Colorado. I know it's it's very high pressure, you know, like it's a totally different type of hunt. And and I would love to like just document like, okay, my test my skills is an elk gutter and go to like over the counter Colorado hunt and see if we can get it done, you know, in in like three days, and just see if it's possible. I'm sure

you'd be fine. But now yeah, it's it's just challenging yourself. Um. Once you find success, um, you know, continue to build on that and and keep adding blocks to your game. You know, build build a bigger house. I guess, Um, so the next the next one. Um, you're going to think killing an Elk is a success. But when you look back, all you will see as the memory of the cool moments and in parentheses you had which you hated the most at the time. Um, I'll let you go.

I I I agree and disagree with this statement, and and I'll but I'll let you take a first crack out it and I'm gonna add to it. I mean, I think this like plays nicely to that last one you just talked about. It's like, you know, it's it's about building those skills. And in early days when I started, you know, killing Elk was with success, right, Like I just want to kill it Olk. And you know, when I look act on my season, the moments I remember

the most, the memories that make me smile. Dude, they're not even killing out. There's those moments are there, but like it's the misses, Like it's the you know, I don't know screw ups. It's the like close encounters more far more than anything. You know, it's like both screaming and you're like, man, like remember that time, and those are like the moments you're gonna remember. And I think it's easy. You know, a lot of this is talking about how to be successful, and I get that that's

what we all focus on. And maybe this is to your point of you know, the hunting white people home with partners, and I get that there's a lot of people like, man, I don't know to be successful hunt because I want to hang out with my dad or I want to hang out with my brother or whatever, and like those are me the moments you're gonna remember. Um. So it's it's kind of like a play on the

whole be here now. And I think this is just great life advice to say, like, you know, all these moments that you're trying to strive for and push hard, and I'm a huge fan of like work your face off for it. But at the same time, don't forget to like take a glimpse into like what you're doing right now, because when I look back on on all the hunting seasons, you know, like the moments where it was just a suck fester or a pack out. Uh, those are the ones I like, I remember the most.

And you just said Idaho And I can particularly remember a pack out in Idaho killed the boles solo, and it's just it's raining sideways and all this, and I was like, this is so dumb. Why did I do this? Why am I in here? Like all those things? And like in retrospect now I'm like, what a cool moment, you know what I mean? And like that that was a part of killing the elk, But it was just a miserable moment within that. Yeah, And I'm I'm the same way. Um, the moments you hate everything about your

questioning why you're doing this. Um, you know I've I've still got elk in the freezer. I could have hunted lower on the mountain. Um. You know, when you're miserable, sweating, hurting, hungry, you look back on those times and it's like that was that was the best part of that hunt. Um. I don't know why our brains work that way. UM. I don't know if it's because it's because you're you know, you're just grinding in that memory and so it just

it's more vivid later. I don't know what it is, but yeah, most of what you remember or either one the hardest times or number two the unique and chaotic times. And by chaotic I mean like good elk encounters, like you know, the rough best you get into just you know, all of your all of your senses, they're like pegged. You know, You're you're seeing elk and bowls running everywhere,

You're hearing them, you're smelling them. You know. It's like, I don't know if if it gets that deep, but for me, it's like it literally triggered every sense that I had. Um, you know, it's just you know, that's what it's about. But I did want to peel this one back a little bit um on on killing an elk being a success. So I think there's two different ways to define success. There's the younger me and since we are talking about twenty years ago, to me, success

meant that I killed an elk. I I felt back then it was a little more important. I was either establishing myself is a good elk hunter. I wanted approval from you know, my dad and uncles and grandpa that you know, hey, this guy is becoming a good elk hunter, like it was more about the killing of the elk. Fast forward to now, and I still I still needed to be a success, but it's more about accomplishing goals that I've set out for myself and a challenge that

I've given myself. And so, like I said, there's a success with the the idea that I've killed an elk, but there's now the success with the idea that I set a goal for myself. I challenged myself and I met it. So that's where I said, I kind of agree with the idea that the you know that the hard times or what you remember. But then as far as the definition of success, um, I still want to

be successful due to goal accomplishing. And when I look back, it's like, all right, that one was a success because we went to this unit in Wyoming with the intention of killing you know, a mature six point bull, and I did my e scouting, I had did all of my calling the biologists and whatever it may be. And because of all that, this hunt was a success as well. So, um, I still challenge myself to a point where you know, I wouldn't say it's like militant like demanding him success

to myself. But I put a lot of pressure on myself every year, and it's not because I need to kill for anybody else. It's it's because of what I expect out of myself and and just holding myself to a pretty high standard. Yeah, and that's I mean, I

think we're on the same page on that. It just you know, like you and I book grew up in very successful hunting families, and so like there's always that seek of approval, like you want your you know, your dad, you want to kill el because like that's what dad did, that's what grandpa did, and and like that's who you want to become, right, and then like as you progress, the goal marker keeps moving right, And you know, like the advice I'd give myself twenty years ago is like,

just pay attention to the journey, because when you look back, those minors successes all made up the journey, and the journey was kind of cool. Um. And so but within that there's micro decisions Like that was a big piece of my decision to like, Okay, I'm gonna do this stupid thing called hunting open country, Like it's not my game,

I'm gonna suck at it. But that's a great piece of like going backwards to go forward, because I have to say, like, okay, you want to get better, not necessarily be successful, and I it ties right into that other one is like just from like when you're twenty, you're like journey, what journey? Like We're justout killing elk

and having fun and that's fine. It's just like those micro decisions of going to new places and you did the same thing, right you were and I how you were successful, but like a party, you had this itch to go try something new and test yourself in a new environment. And you know, it's the same when I was like, I remember the first time I was nervous

in a long time. I've done a lot of things that were I had been there, done that, but like going for sixteen days into the wilderness on horseback so low it was like that's you know, can I do it whatever? And I'm pushing myself and like when I look back, um, you know that was an unsuccessful hunt. I came out and end up killing a bowl, um you know, in different place, But that sixteen days was like that was a good test of your skill. And I'm sure there's tons of people are like I don't.

I don't care about that. I just want to be successful. My advice to my myself, you know, twenty years ago, whenever it was two years ago, would be like, hey, just do new things, challenge yourself in new ways, because if you only focus on this goal of you know, killing elk uh, it'll make the journey uh less wide, right, Like it's a it's just kind of a simple journey of like, oh, yeah, you were successful in the same

way and the same thing over time. So it kind of ties right back into what we're talking about, Like that's why you go to new places, why you test yourself in new ways. And I get that everyone's in a different place in their journey. And if you're listening to this and you're like, I'm just trying to kill

my first elk, I get it. Like don't let me talk too big on you, because like we've all been there, and like killing your first elk is step one, right, and maybe if you have killed nelk yet, like hunt the same place, don't go try to test yourself by being in new areas, new ways, like find a system that works, and then before you go take the step to like I want to go to a new place figure that step out right, because you did the building blocks and you can't just like seek the end goal

of like I want to kill an elk in every single state. Like maybe you should start with like what's block one, which is killing an elk in my home state? For sure, we're about only halfway through these, Cody. We may have to bring you back for part two because we're kind of running on time. But I did I want to give you a chance kind of maybe explain a little bit about the rich ideas, some of the stuff you've got going on, how people can you reach

out to you? And then um, in closing, I'll ask for your kind of your gold nugget for all counters out there, but go ahead and give us a little bit about yourself and some of the stuff you've got

going on before we close up here. Yeah, I mean I run a podcast and we talked a lot about entrepreneurship and hunting all those things, many projects, the ideas lab um and actually I just I'm launching so I mean a lot of people probably know I have wappty Wednesday, which is like our Patreon only podcast, and we do

olk podcasts every single week. Um, but on top of that, I'm kind of launching an elk to a one course uh, and it's definitely not for beginners, like these are the these are the nuggets that I've learned in five D plus podcasts. Uh. And so if you're interested in like the next level of skills, check out my elk to a one of course. Uh. It's gonna be like fifty bucks. And I think it's like this is how you become to my My goal is to double your success rate.

So if you've never hunted before, like, don't worry, like, don't take this course, go take you know, the l Collective or something else. But if if you want to double your success rate, uh, and go from that a ten percent success rate to twenty or even thirty forty success rate. This is like the things you need to focus on. And a lot of the stem from having you know, hundreds of podcasts and people like, oh, what's the what's the one thing I need to listen to?

What's the best advice? Like Okay, I'll just put together like a three to four hour course that's like here's what you need to know. Um, and we're actually gonna make an audio file as well, so as I know Uh, it's almost seasoned, so like trying to go watch videos, you don't have time for that. So we made an

audio only file. So if you want to check that out, Uh, go to the Rish Outdoors dot net four slash two A one and we'll we'll have everything there perfect perfect Well, thank you, and um, you're one piece of advice for Newell cuners out there and maybe people struggling to find success. Um, just a one liner or something that that you think they need to know. Man, I would say, like the difference between you know, people who have success rate and

ten percent sexist rate is just pure effort. I just don't think people understand how much how hard those guys are working and when they get when they show up in the field, it's not like, hey, this is my vacation. It's like we have work to do and I'm about to get it done. That's like if you could just experience what it's like to go hunting with Jason is like I remember hunted with Jason, but I know exactly how it is. It's like he's just gonna go all

in and like everything is towards that goal. What and I know, like we just talked about like all this other stuff, but I think the amount of effort that goes in is like, once you show up, it's got to be game time. If you want to be successful every single year, you gotta you gotta treat it like such. Yeah I like that, Um yeah, and just elaborate on a little bit like I show up just like you do it your normal job. And I don't like to think of hunting as a job, so don't don't get

that mixed up. But I show up with a this is my job and my my goal, and this is the check marks and and this is how I accomplish it. And I don't like to fail, and so no, very very systematically, and this is the effort required to do it. And I'm willing to do that. So I really appreciate having you on Cody um as a great converse Asian good luck this fall, and yeah, it's nice nice catching

up with you likewise, but yeah, that's a luck. Keep crushing it, killing big bulls, making me jealous, all those things. We'll try, h