Ep. 124: Guiding

it's kind of into the hunting season. In my hunting lodge here, just got done with a lot of guiding and you got the fire going. I'm slipping through a few photo albums, some old pictures of some guy that hunts have done in the past, kind of reminiscing and then just realizing I've got about a hundreds of stories and noticed there's quite a few that I actually forgot about.

But I really do love guiding hunters, and for me, it's always just been away, or at least starting out was a way that I could be hunting all the time. Just as someone that's obsessed with hunting, I thought, there's gotta be a way I can do this all the time, and for me, that was getting into guiding. Hey, I mean really, I kind of made it a year round gig.

I travel the world, chasing the seasons. I go to Southern Hemisphere when hunts would close down in the North, travel different states, and then of course throwing my own hunts in there. For a lot of my adult life, I probably spent way more nights in a sleeping bag than a bed. I actually still sleep like when I sleep in a bed, my arms and legs are crossed like I'm in a mummy bag because of it. But

that's just a different story in itself. I think one of the things that I'm most proud about is just having that background and experience base as a guide and outfitter, and well, of course building a good business and working really hard for it and the time I was one

of the youngest outfitters in the state of Montana. But more than anything, it was just a lifestyle that I enjoyed because I got to be out hunting and to the questions that I get asked a lot, or actually kind of two different sides of the coin, but I figured I'd answer both of them in this podcast. The first is it regarding how do you become a hunting guide? I get a question a lot a lot like how do I do what you do? It seems like an awesome lifestyle. I love hunting. I'd love to be a guide,

but there's really no job fair for it. There's really no good like this is the plan that you go through? How do you become a hunting guide? So I'll answer that question, And then the other question is kind of the opposite side of that coin. Guys saying maybe Hey, I'm gonna go on my first time out west or I'm gonna I really want to hunt this particular species or this particular area. You know what's the best option? Should I go d I y or should I go guided?

And then you know, if I do choose to go guided, how do I prepare and be a good client. So this week I'm gonna answer all those questions regarding guiding, picking a guided hunt, being on a guided hunt, or becoming a guide yourself. But first I want to share the story of a recent Canada moose hunt and a little behind the scenes that I've been itching to share and an encounter where the bull cut the distance for us listen took place in Newfoundland and we're chasing moose

is this year. Actually, I told the story of the caribou hunt Withold Cariboe Hunt, and while I was there, I actually got the opportunity to hunt moose and a friend of mine, Jed, was hunting moose as well, so the two of us had moose tags. I was archery hunting, he was rifle hunting. And I released a video today so she'd be able to go watch it if you want. And I thought, it's it's fun when you have a video because you can actually see the hunt. But then

I was kind of thinking about it. I was like, well, there's all those moments that you don't see in a video, those kind of like the things that camera doesn't capture, so kind of like behind the scenes story of the story. I thought it would be kind of a cool story to tell um this particular hunt. You know, we were

with our guy, Daniel, same guy. So this is actually the first year I've hunted in Canada because of that restriction where a lot of places in Canada you have to have a guide or there are a few places you could do like a hunter host thing if you know someone but it's only for a certain species and fairly limited. Canada actually is fairly restricted in like different provinces. If you don't live in that province, you can't hunt without a guide even so um kind of restricted in

that way. But anyways, find myself in Newfoundland and we're chasing the moose, one of the things that so we flew in. We got choppered into a pretty remote location, had set up a base camp and we we're just coming kind of coming off the tail end of I guess would be a hurricane h like a few weeks earlier, really bad wind. Um. I think like there's other guys out not where we were at, but just other places, and you know, it's just kind of been like dismal hunting.

I think only because of bad weather. Um. Some of the guys that we had talked to, you know, just encountering a lot of wet and we kind of landed in this perfect break in between that really bad weather. Anytime you're hunting, you know you're going somewhere, not one thing that can always like jack up. What you're expecting is really bad weather. And I'm generally the person that hits the bad weather. So I was like we're kind of delayed a little bit um getting into camp because

of the weather. Once we got out, we had a few openings where it's like, okay, it's we're actually gonna have decent enough weather to do some hunting. So I've shot moose before, but my buddy Jed was hunting with me, and you'd never taken a moose. So I was like, I was kind of thinking about I was like, all right, I'm gonna kind of look for I don't know if I was. I wasn't really gonna be super picky. We didn't have a lot of time with thinking two moose, and then we wanted to have time to care we

hunt afterwards. But I was like, well, you know, it's kind of like it depends on the scenario. But Jed, I'll let you shoot first. You know, you know, a shot of moose it's like sweet. So anyways, I'm gonna kind of fast forward to the behind the scenes part because you can watch the the video and I think that's it's like, you know, I'm always the person's like, uh, if you could read the book or watch the movie,

they watch the movie guy first. Uh not always, you know, sometimes the books are good, but just you know, I like to see it, but there's some things in the

hunting story you can't see. So we're getting set up in Daniel's calling and we just moved down from camp calling and we see this cow moose kind of across the way, just like watching glass and or switching between, you know, some guys we're kind of like switching between rain gear and no rain gear because it's like, you know, you're wearing your rain gear and it's wet, like the ground's way, everything's wet in the morning, so you got

your rain you're on keep from getting soaked. But then if you're hiking aggressively as things start to dry out, if you're just wearing your rain gear, then you're just raining on the inside as supposed to getting wet from the outside. So you're gonna be wet no matter what. So a couple of guys swapping gear out and whatever Daniel's calling, we're looking at this cow moose and then you hear like a stick break behind us. Slowly turn

around and there's just like a bull. He's like he wants to come in, Like so I whis for Like I don't think anything's recording this morning. I wish for jet, like eight jet. There's nice bull, you should probably shoot it. He's like sweet. And then so we're like we start to move and I realized, like this bull is coming

and I've got my bow. I was planning on hunting second, but I'm like, now this bull was like on a b line for the call, and it's at a point where I'm kind of thinking like, man, this is gonna be. This is too close to shoot with the rifle. I better shoot with the boat. And it just kind of happened like this bull was just Normally when you can kind of like make a play and make a plan and do whatever, you might have a little bit of time, this bull was just on one. He was ready to

come in. He was ready to fight, swaying back and forth. So it's like Jed's behind me. I'm like, well, it looks like I'm up. So I've got my boat and the bulls like slowly working his way and standing there waiting. It's like I've seen this happen on videos every time I've been moose hunting myself. The moose don't do this, and I've guided shiris moose huins where they just they get in like this trance, and it's like you could pretty much get away with anything within reason. Um, and

that bull is just coming in on a string. He's just like so fired up on testosterone that he's just gonna m in. He's gonna rake, he's gonna do his thing, and he's coming. He's coming in hot. For me when I've had a bone in my hand, that's never been the case. Like it's always you make one small movement and they blow out or it just seems like that does happen. But in my mind it's like how that only happens on TV. It doesn't happen for me, And

here it's happening. I'm like, oh, this is awesome, says Bulls kind of like in that bull trance, swaying back and forth, coming in, starting to rake. We're in this like a little bit of a burn area and uh, you know, kind of like I've got this tree at my back. It kind of feels like we're out in the open, but also like utilizing what available cover we've got. Daniel's gut is um shoulder blade kind of mimicking an antler.

Sometimes I'll use like a paddle or something like that shoulder blade makes a pretty good sound, just like a dried out shoulder bone, and so bulls coming in and it's just like getting closer and thoser. At one point it's raking. So I'm like, all right, I'm gonna draw when he's you know, I still don't want to do something stupid, make a movement and get get busted and you know, have him standing there facing us or whatever not get a good shot. So I draw back and

I'm just holding holding. I'm like, I'm just waiting from taking another step, and he's just busy raking and then starts walking straight again, like right at us. His head goes behind something or actually started raking again. A let down and uh, just waiting, waiting, waiting. Now he moves, he passes behind something we can't see me, and I can draw back again, drawback and waiting for him takes a step, opens up the shoulder and send an arrow through. Well. Uh,

Chris is one of the guys filming. Was actually just like so we three of us, Well, this is a big crew because when you've got other people filming, it just kind of exponentially increases the amount of moving parts. So it's like I got a draw diagram. There's me and Daniel. I've got the bow, Daniel calling. There's Jed who's got the rifle, who's right behind me, and then there's Niko who's got a camera filming. And then there's another guy, Chris. He's got a camera and he stopped

where we first started. Well, the moose is coming right towards Chris. And at this point, like I see Chris over here, the moose right here, and I'm like thinking, oh, yeah, Chris is a good buddy of mine. Um, I would hate to shoot this moose and have him run Chris over. But I also knew that there's a big dead fall in front of Chris, So you know, I I shoot

the moose and it was pretty close to Chris. I mean it's so like runs toward him, but not real far, and then turns and I put another arrow in the bowl at probably like twenty yards at that point, first shot was pretty close. I didn't range it or anything. I didn't have to. I just said, yeah, top pin moose is down. Pretty nice moose. We're like, okay, that

happened fast. We're kind of expecting, you know, see a bowl, you know, kind of get them to come in like they sometimes do where they're like kind of interested, and it was just like this bull, we're distracted, turnaround, bulls coming in hot, make a move, shoot the bull. So

then it's jets turned up to bad. So we hunt, you know, a few days, and have some encounters and get some weather, and you know, things go how hunts go, and it's getting down toward the last it's probably kind of like I don't know if it's the last day, but it was getting towards the end of that. And so the night before we did this huge hike I don't know. We hiked like all the way out back around maybe thirteen miles something like that, and get back

to camp. But just before shooting time ends and we hear this bull like grunting off in the distance like ye, and we're like, oh geez. So we we be lined down the ridge pass camp, so we now blow pass camp and we're trying to like get in there. You know, it sounds like he's close but also ways away, so generally, you know, and it's kind of like anything when you're calling.

You know, you might call and you've got to cover a considerable amount because you aren't gonna call that animal off of something else, Like you aren't gonna call a bull off of a hot cow, for instance, Probably not going to So we're calling and and as we're moving in, we're trying to just using the calls to keep an eye like tabs on him. And we're gonna cross through this little creek bottom. All of a sudden, we hear these willows breaking, and it's like, do this bull is

coming to us? So we get set up the bull like it's just like, of course, the worst possible spot, all the stick willows, and this bull comes through the willows and I look and I see just a big record. I'm like, well, this is a really big bull. This is nice bowl one of that you want this ball jet And so I'm like, but we're Jed's at he can't see him. Of course, Chris, I think the moose were like attracted to his I'm joking. But it's like he had like the big camera lens and they're just

like walking straight toward him. He's not moving, he's like frozen. He's got a good view of him, none of none of them. No one else does. So we tries to reposition to get a shot. Both catches the movement, wheels around, runs off. Crap, that's a bummer. That was a really good bull. So gets dark. Uh next morning, we're like, well, I don't know if we blow them out of the

area or what. Um. So the plan was there was this good glass and like you climb up the mountain kind of see over some of the burns and a few bogs off in the distance. And because we're limited on time, I was like, well, let's split up. Maybe you know, Daniel and Jed are going to stay down and call kind of where that bull was if he's still around. I'm gonna go to the top of the mountain and just glass and then they're gonna meet up

with me. And then that way, if nothing happens during the calling, then we can I can kind of like be like, well, I saw a moose go over here in bed and do this whole thing, right, So I'm sure you can guess what happens. I split up from those guys. I get just to my glassing spot, right. I just pop over the glassing spot. I look down below me two yards away, here's that big bull like standing their butts. I'm like, you've got to be kidding me, right, So I'm like, I was gonna like, if I saw

something that we could go after. I could make like some cow calls or something. They could hear me making my moose calls and then come up and we could make a player or whatever. I could go down or whatever. But the bull is too close to do anything. So I'm like, okay, well there, they know where I'm at and they're gonna meet me here. So I'm just sitting there watching this bowl, just like freaking out, like, oh man, dude,

come on, guys, just okay. I can hear them calling down lower obviously this now I'm looking, there's like thirteen moose around. It's just like a moose magnet. There's just moose everywhere, little bulls, big bull and I've got this thing just shot after shot broadside, just standing there two

yards and Jed's rife lending. So I'm like, all right, come on, guys, Like so that bulls there and he's just there forever like this never happens, you know, if I it's always when you leave somebody that's got the tag, that's when you see the big one, right. So I'm like, all right, So I hear them walking up to me. I'm like, okay, finally I put my pack down. So as soon as they get up, I'm like, okay, these guys can just make a shot. That's gonna be great.

Literally the second they come up, like not because of spook, the bull just like the cow, like, they just move off into the six stuff and I'm like, guys, there's a really big bull right here. They're like yeah, yeah, okay. I was like no, I mean I've had this thing like all morning standing here broadside, like just staring off in the distance, just standing there doing bull moose things. And now as soon as they get there, of course, like Murphy's Lot, that bull just goes into the timber,

and I'm like, okay. They could see some of the cows and some of the other stuff, and I'm like, no, there's a big bull in here. I showed him, got a little bit of video and stuff like all right, he's there. So we're like okay. So in our wisdom we're like they're like we're gonna go, We're gonna stock in. And then I'm like, okay, I'll stay here and watch. That way, if they like blow out or something happens, at least we'll know what happened. So they leave, and

what do you think happens? As soon as they leave, the bull steps out again for like another three to five minutes, So I'm like, crap, so I just watch him. I'm like, okay, well, at least we know he's still here. So I'm watching andything disappears and it's just like nothing. I'm like, man, they should have shot him by now, and nothing, and so I'm just waiting, waiting, waiting, But forty five minutes goes by. I don't know, it seemed like forever, Mike, all right, I don't see the moose anymore.

I see a couple of cows, so there's still some cows there, and I don't know. I'm like, I'm just my snack bag eating snack or whatever. And then I hear boom, sweet, Okay, they got him, and uh I was like, who I hope he got Was it a hit? Was it a miss? And then a few minutes later here like boom again. So I'm like, all right, I know that he got him because there, you wouldn't have two shots that space apart, So like, sweet, so pack

up my stuff, work over there. They ended up getting in there, but the there's like so thick once, you know, from my view, I had like a wider view. And then when they got in tight um, they actually saw a lot of cows and whatever, but it was just so thick that they didn't have a shot on the bull or didn't even see the bull. So I don't know when they when they got in, I guess I wasn't even there. It was just like kind of a cluster, I guess, like not a good rest bull stepped out

like just one split second shot. Jed made a good shot, anchored the big bull, and we had the big bull down. But I was the whole time just sitting there like, dang, they should have been here earlier. I was just worried the whole time. So walked up on the bull, was like, really good bull for the area, Pretty stoked. Cut him up. Jed got his first moose. I shot a nice bowl with my bow pretty close range, and it was just an epic hunt, really awesome hunt. Got to do a

good hunt with good friends. It was fun being in camp with you know. One of the things um, I always think about, it's like people are like, oh, what's it like, Like, what's it like guiding a guide. You know, it's like thinking on like Daniel side. But you know, for me, I've I've been on enough or guided enough hunts that it's actually really enjoyable to be you know, it's like you're sharing guide stories, you have very similar experiences, and you're around a guy that does it for the

same reason you love to. I think it was just a really cool experience that uh what I got to do this season and was a lot of fun. I do have video of it as well, so but I think that was kind of like the behind the scenes part that I think was I don't know, there's something that you don't see of like that, And it's very classic as far as when it comes to hunting of sometimes with the things that you plan aren't the way things go, even when they work out. It really essentially

just devoted my life to helping people go hunting. You know, I'm a big proponent of d I Y public land hunting, and I try to give hunters the necessary tools to take on those hunts on their own. But I also guide hunters. So I think that some people think of those two things is like mutually exclusive, like one and not the other, But really it's it's not always like that. Just because you like to do d I Y hunts doesn't mean that there isn't a hunt that you couldn't

benefit from going on guided hunt and vice versa. Maybe you've never been on a d I Y hunt, Maybe going on a guided hunts a good entry point into that type of hunt, or a good way to experience something with somebody that really knows what they're doing. Um So, you know, I mean, I personally prefer to do hunts

by myself. That's how I really enjoy the hunt. But there's also other people that enjoy the hunt by you know, being on a guided hunt where they they've got somebody else's taking care of the logistics, somebody else has done the scouting, somebody else's done whatever, and they, you know, are able to go and experience the hunt with somebody that really knows what they're doing or has done it a lot. Um So, I think that the two things, you know, when you're like, oh, I don't think it.

I don't think everything has to always be so polarizing, especially when it comes to hunting. You know, we're all hunters, we all enjoy the same pursuits, and it's like I don't need to be like, oh, this guy is a um, do it yourself hunter, and only that I was like, yeah, I'm gonna do it yourself hunter. And I also guide hunters and and occasionally there's hunts where I need to go on, uh, you know, a guided hunt for various

legal reasons or is whatever reasons logistical reasons. Um. So yeah, I think that the two things, like, it's still definitely a good option to think about when you're thinking about planning that hunt, planning maybe that first kind of planning a hunt out west, maybe planning a hunt where you

drew a special limited tag or something like that. So I feel like we'll just kind of dive in and talk about the reasons why, like some good reasons why you might want to go on a guide and hunt as opposed to do yourself or at least like look at all the options. So the first is kind of the a major one, and this one for me is the choice where it's like these are the kind of the guide and hunts that they go and it would

be like legal restrictions. There's certain areas Alaska for mountain goats, sheep and brown grizzly bear you have to have a guide. Legally pretty much, if you're a US resident and if you want to hunt anywhere in Canada, you have to have a guide. Um. There are a few exceptions with some hunter hosts things that I mentioned before, but I mean, by and large, you have to have a guide. Now, even if you're a Canada resident of one province and you want to hunt and say like BC, you actually

have to have a guide as well. So if you live in Alberta and you want to hunt BC, you to have a guide. UM. Now there's other like um, access logistics. You know when I was guiding a lot in New Zealand, Uh, you know, there's a lot of places you can hunt, and it's like I do. I mean I went over there and the reason that drew me over there was being able to do some d I Y hunts in essentially public land d I Y hunts for myself and then but for most people it's like,

you're traveling all the way around the world. Do you have the logistical ability to get in there and and do those hunts yourself? Some people yes, majority of people know, so they would hire a guide. Another thing would be like equipment restrictions something where uh, think about like a backcountry hunt in Alaska, or in order to access that you might need a plane or a boat or something that's like very hard to get where you're at. Um, it's not just like where you can show a rent

a car and hike in. It might be a unit that's X amount of miles from the road you need a plane to access it. Or even like, um, let's say a wilderness hunt where it's just better to have a string of horses, or maybe you're gonna go do a specific hunt like a mountain lion hunt and you need to pack of dogs. It's like there's an equipment restriction for something. You don't have a guided hunt that I went on recently. Uh, something that I really wanted to do for a long time was hunt snow geese.

But I was like, I didn't have two thousand decoys. So I was like, Okay, instead of buying two thousand decoys, I could go with a guy that has the decoys and has the property or whatever and um and still have that experience of hunting snow gees. Another reason, like if you think about looking at a guided hunter going d I y having a special tagger once in a lifetime opportunity. I think if I think about the kind of hunts where I would you know, potentially go with

a guide. There are a few hunts that I thought, if I ever drew, I would hire a guide, even though I really enjoy the aspect of you know, doing it myself. I done almost the majority of I would say, nine percent of my hunts have been d I y um, aside from I suppose a couple in Alaska where I'm able to you know, you have to have a guide for legal reasons, and then Canada um just this year.

Uh so, you know. But like I thought about it, and I was like, man, if I ever drew a Missouri Breaks Sheep tag, I probably hire a guide because I know that there's two rams, and I know that I would want it to RAM, and I know myself and know that I would have to scout the whole season and probably hunt every day of the season, and know that it would probably just be better to hire somebody that has already done that over the years and knows where the rams are and how access to certain

areas and whatever. Now I don't have to worry about that because I don't actually even put in for that unit. But if I did and I drew it, and if I randomly put in for it when you're and drew it, then I would probably hire a guide or maybe like an errors on a strip meal der tag where it's like, you you are never gonna draw this again. It's just lucky that you got it, um, And it's like one

of the best hunts you could go for. And there's you know, you could put in the time, but you might not have the time to put in and you wouldn't and you'd want to do that once in a lifetime opportunity. Justice. Good friend of mine, uh this year drew an Arizona strip meal to your rifle tag. It was like, I had hardly any points. It's like, all right, you know he he had was not expecting it, and I think he made the right movie. He hired, you know,

one of the best guides in the area. And it's like, yeah, it costs a lot more than just going out on your own, but you're also you're paying for that experience of these guys are the best, they know the area, they know, and you're never gonna get that tag again, so you might as well do that tag. Justice, if you have the ability to do that, and then you know the flip side is you know that's that's kind of a decision that you can make if you know

that opportunity rises. Now, another reason guys maybe think about

using you guys, just like your physical conditioning. Sometimes older guys that maybe aren't the best shape don't have the time to backpack into or the ability to backpack into an area, so they hire a guy because of logistical reasons, or maybe just um better access, like something where it could be private land hunt where they've got there's gonna be an easier, physically easier hunt, um, better access to I don't know, animals that are unpressured, no other hunters.

Or it could be something where you're just like looking for an experience that you can't get somewhere else. So those are kind of reasons benefits of going guided. Now, just if you're talking about general like, um, let's say you guys like I'm going to go on an ELK hunt. I really want to get an ELK So you could say, well you could go you could do it yourself, public land, unguided, and I think the average guy, you know, this isn't

necessarily people coming from a house to atre whathever. But I read this was a Rocky Mountain Elk foundation a long time ago. Don't know if it's still current because there's a lot of new technology out there, but it's like one in every seven years a guy would kill an elk, like just on his own d I y even people that live in areas where there self because like one in seven years. I'm thinking, like, man, that's crazy,

but that's a long time. And then with a guide, it's like cuts it down to like one in two years or one in three years, So you cut the time to success in half, and if it's with a really good guy, to probably even less than that, so you know the opportunity of having success or then the

other thing is just somebody that maybe doesn't know. Over the course of my guiding, there's been a lot of people that I've taken out that had never really had those big game opportunities, never had somebody to show them kind of got into it, got their feet wet, never found success, and so it's like, let's go with somebody that really knows what they're doing, where I can pick up some tips and things that I can use back home wherever I hunt, where I can kind of learn

from my mistakes or kind of be shown the ropes and like feel comfortable and confident and maybe get that first success or that that at least that experience with somebody that has some form of expert knowledge. And we always talk a lot over this. Of the course of this podcast, I've talked a ton of you know, you get into the field and here's what you can expect

um on a guided hunt. I think that you should also have like here's what I can expect, and I think the one thing to expect is like, no matter what the guided hunt, unless it's like some kind of high fenced thing, success is not guaranteed. Even if you pay a lot of money for whatever kind of hunt, it's never guaranteed. Uh, it's wild animals, as wild conditions. Anything can happen, whether it can happen whatever, even if it's in a really high percentage area. Nothing, I would say,

nothing is guaranteed. There's places where it's a lot higher likelihood that you would kill something. I know that there's you know, you see I've seen videos of guys hunting some private ranches for elk, and it's like, man, if you couldn't get one there, you aren't going to get

one anywhere. Um. You know, the opportunity abounds. But you know, while I'm over here just like grinding and out for some public land general unit ELK, you know, you could be over here on some other place chasing private land really well managed. Sure that gets zero pressure. Um. But even then success wouldn't be guaranteed, you know, unless like I said, that's those you know, high fence thing, but that I don't know, that's its own deal. We weren't

even talking about that, so um. You know. Another thing to expect is the fact that whether you go guide it or not, there's only so much a guide can do for you. I used to always say, like, as a guide, you have to do everything except pull the trigger, and that includes like even helping guys set up because you want to make sure that that shots successful. But as a guided client, what you can do is you

can shoot and you can hike. If it's a physical hunt, then you need to be in physical shape and prepared and then also prepared with whatever you're hunting with. Whether it's a bow, whether it's a rifle, whatever, you need to be prepared with it because that's going to increase your chances of success. Somebody can only help you out so far. You know. They can they can spot the animal, they can show you the area, they can get you in on them, they can call the bowl in, but

they can't shoot it for you. So you have to be able to keep up, you know. I would always tell guys like, guys, I would ask what's your successory And I'd be like, well, if it's me and I'm out hunting, would be like, but that would mean that you'd have to keep up with me exactly and be able to shoot. And so you know, by adding those two factors, and it really kind of changes the success rate or the chance of success. Um. So if you can manage the things that you can manage being in shape.

You know, if it's a physical hunt, I mean, if it's a now I would say on the flip side, if it's like a non physical hunt, like to say that white tail, say you're a tree stand hunter, a blind hunt, then you have to also then in that case be able to sit or to be able to do the task that you're supposed to do, and then also be able to make a clean, ethical shot. And that comes with practice. UM. At home in the off season before the hunt, and those are the things that

you could do. I think it's good to talk about um, you know, in like I would see this podcast as a very d I Y centric podcast. But also there's so many you know, by getting so many questions from people about like I don't know about guided hunts, I don't know how to like should I do a guided and I'm kind of going this route or thinking about this thing. I'd like to try it myself, but don't have the time. So you know, you just kind of

got a factor in. I think for a lot of people, if you factored, if you penciled it out, they're probably about equal in cost going guided or going unguided, because if you go on guided, it might take you three or four years to figure it out, maybe more to figure it out to get comfortable, to be successful. And there's a lot of guys that go out the first year and find success, but for the average person, that's

just not what happens. So you know, they do it over the course of multiple years and it takes a while, and then you know you've got your time spread out, but you can do it yourself. A lot of the fun is in that planning preparation and finding that success yourself. On the flip side, you know you can you can pay more for a guided hunt, but the logistics are

taking care of. The scouting is taking care of the transportation, and the camping and all those kind of things are are taken care of, so you don't have to think about that other stuff. You don't have to spend that extra time if you've got a limited amount of time or whatever. It's a good way to get into success earlier, and you know, in the long run, sometimes it just pencils itself out. So it's really just more of a

personal choice and sometimes factoring in those other things. But it's good to talk about because obviously a lot of people are interested in it. I think one of the questions too, is like how do you find a good guide? And I hate to say it, but the good ones are probably already booked out. Probably can't get with them. I know, being a new father. H if I were to go find a good daycare place, they don't have

them available. They are all booked out. I know because I among like eight waiting lists um or like a good we want trading get our daughter and swim lessons. It's like the place that you want to go to no spots available. The best you can do is get on a waiting list. Then you probably won't get in. UM. And I hate to say that, but that's true. So you know, as a as somebody that's been on a couple of guided hunts, you know, I'm more on the

guiding side of it than they going on the guided hunt. Abortion. But one thing that I would always recommend to clients they do would even book with me when I'm starting out, is call some of our references guys that have been successful, guys that haven't been successful. See especially the guys the guys that you want to talk to the guys that weren't successful, because the guys are successful probably are stoked. Um. But that's not always the case. You know, talk to

some people were in the mouth. That's probably the best way, UM there are you know. I know when I was starting out is like I was trying to book Hunters and it was difficult, and the guys that did book were like, well, this is the best time we've ever been on it. And so I was like, you could get in on the ground floor and and have something good. Um. But you know, just talking to people that have been on the hunt. It's a great way, you know, talking

to somebody that's reputable. Um, I actually kinda I mean I've got a lot of friends. You know, I've been doing this a long time, so I'm fortunate enough. I've got a lot of friends that also do the same thing. We know, we run in the same circles, We go to the same convention kind of things, we hunt together, we do things outside of UH in the off season, or one guy will come down and hunting or guide with us and we'll go up there and do the same.

Just depends, you know, like back and forth, and so through that, I've got to meet a lot of good guides and know a lot of people that that are good. Um. Actually kind of like I have been starting a little booking agency kind of thing just to recommend people to places that I know or are pretty solid. Call it my remy warrant expeditions. If you want to check it out and go for it, Um you can get kind

of my recommendations. But um, you know, outside of that, just kind of finding places, you know, talking to people that maybe have been on hunts, whether it's friends, word of mouth, that's a great way to do it. You know. You could do the random internet search and then once you find something kind of just do your due diligence. Uh, talk to people that have been there, I think is a good way and just get a good feel for it. You know, but there are out there. I hate to

say it because I am as an outfit. There are a lot of jokers out there. Man, you gotta be careful. Um. I guided over the years many hunters that have gone on hunts. There's probably more bad ones than good ones,

and I hate it's really really really unfortunate. But there are some good ones that are really good and they do the whole experience right, and they know what they're doing, and they're professional and they're experts and they hire expert guides and it's an incredible experience to go as somebody that does that for a living. And so, um yeah, you just gotta kinda I wish that there was like an easier way to figure it out, like weed through

the sift through the garbage. But really it's just a word of mouth and talking to somebody that has done the hunt or like, you know, how's a good reputation now on the flip side. Maybe you are a guy like myself. This just or guy or gal doesn't matter. Um that is just absolutely obsessed with hunting, and you're like, man, I just want to hunt every day possible. I was like, cool. I remember my first guiding job. I think I think maybe I've told this story before. Maybe I haven't, but anyways,

I factored it out right. I was like, it's kind of a long story, but anyways, the outfitter that was working for had a heart attack. I ended up having to like take care of the horror says, feed all the dogs, Um, get up, cook breakfast, because the cook had to rush him to the hospital. Like cook breakfast, do dinner, do the dishes. I think I slept like two hours a night for seven days. I'm that type of person that could take naps. I'd just be like

if guys were napping in the middle of day. I'm glass like, I'm just I was just working my ass off, right, and I think I penciled it out. Like I had to pay for gas in my vehicle and had to get to this particular places in the Swan Value in Montana, like round the Bob Marshall and there was you know, drive from where I was at. My truck got like eight miles of the gallons that had to cover my gas, and yeah, I had to have a guide license with

like a hundred bucks. So that first guide trip that I guided, I think I made like seventeen cents an hour. And I was like, hot jokes on you guys, I would have done this for free, you know. I mean I got after that first week, I was like, man, what these guys didn't know is I would have done this for free. Like I was so stoked. I was like, I want to do this the red to my life, Like this is so awesome. I was like, this is

the best thing ever, you know. And if you're that type of person where it's like that's you know, you want that lifestyle, then guiding is for you. And I think, you know, I actually wrote an article for Western Hunter magazine many years ago, uh, talking about how to be and I was like, how to be an Elkie guide? But um, you know, whether it's an Elk guide, whether

it's whatever. I think the first step it's kind of similar to anything, but you have to have the passion for it, and then you know the easiest way to get into it. Someone says, I mean, I really want to be a guide. How do I get into it? I say, the first thing is look for guiding jobs where you're at the areas that you know really well. Like if you are in Missouri and you take people out and whatever, like find places around where you hunt because you're familiar with it. You know, you can build

that reputation. For me. I decided that I wanted to guide in Montana because it was like a consistent season compared to I grew up in Nevada. But I also my grandpa that in Montana hunted every year and knew the area pretty well. But I ended up just like loading up my truck and driving up and just being like, all right, I'm just gonna like be here until I figure it out. And I knew the area really well. Um, but I went into an area that I knew really well and then ran into a outfitter that was like

realized that I knew the area really well. I was like, let me give you a job, because if you're into somebody somewhere that you know and like that barrier of having to show someone something is gone, then it's gonna be a lot more likely that you're able to secure guiding jobs. So I know that there's a lot of people are like, oh, I want to go do one of these guide schools or whatever, and they ask about that that's not the way that I did it, not saying the way that I did it's the only way

to do it. So I know that there's guys that have gone to some of these guide schools and kind of got guide positions. Um, but I think that the first step would be kind of figuring out somewhere close by that you're already familiar with, areas that you already hunt, places that you've already been. That's the easiest way to kind of get your foot in the door. In my opinion, guiding is just like any other job. You know, you

gotta have a resume, you know. I hate to break it to most people are like, I'm not I don't really hunt that much, but I really enjoyed it when I go out, and I want to make this a living. That's great, but you need the experience. It's just like anything. Man. If I was like, I would really like to do brain surgery, but I didn't go to school for it, and I didn't like, I know nothing about it, but

that's really what I want to do. But it's the easiest way to do that, and I don't want to do that like long route of like having to learn an area and do all this other stuff. I just want to do it. Um, it's not gonna work for that person, you know, I'm not saying guiding his brain surgery, right, there's a big difference there. But it's just like any job, man, you gotta have the knowledge base to get hired to do something, and so you need to build up your skills,

you need to build up your resume. And that might be just like obviously taking people, not for money, but just like taking people your friend is out um hunting as much as possible, like getting that experience. It's like when a buddy has a tag. I was the guy that was always there, like let's go hunting, let's go

you know, like building that up. And so when somebody, when the opportunity for a guide job presented itself, it's like here, I've got like this experience, this experience, this experience. I can show somebody pictures from all these hunts that I've been on. I already had the experience and the knowledge and became an expert in what I was doing. Now, there are other routes to get into it, and so the other one that we talked about was like this

guide school thing. Um, you know, I think that that's a really good one for you. Gotta kind of decide the type of area that you wanna work in. So you're like, let's say you're from Pennsylvania and you're like, I want to be an elk guide because that's like, that is the dream that is the pinnacle of In my opinion, elk guiding and sheep guiding is like the tops. That's the best. So you know, like, but I don't have elk where I'm at, and how do I do that? Well?

There is an option to do guide school kind of thing, but what that's mostly teaching is that can't really teach you, no matter what they advertise. I'm just gonna tell you too straight. You aren't gonna learn how to lk hunt really well doing that without actually lk hunting. But what you will get is horse experience. You know, you'll learn how to pack horses, you'll learn how to trail horses, You'll learn you'll be a good packer, and from there you can kind of build your way up into getting

experienced elk hunting. Because there's the nice thing about those kind of areas, wilderness type guide areas is you don't necessarily need to know that specific areas. So I always would break it down into like picking your job and

then building your resume based on that job. So if you're like, hey, I want to get into elk guiding, you know, but I don't have any experience in a particular area, then I would say there's two kinds that are good for you, Um, wilderness type areas, because you necessarily need to know the whole area, just need to know where you're packing into and then be familiar with horses and then have some milk knowledge. Um, you know,

there's two kinds of guides. So there's the guides that know the animal really well inside and out and they could guide anywhere. You know, a guy that knows elk, he could guide in Nevada, he could guide in Utah, guide in Arizona, doesn't matter. You bring him to a place where there's elk, that guy will find elk. And now somebody that has a lot of experience chasing elk.

And then there's the kind of guy that maybe doesn't have that same amount of experience, but once to gain that experience, So that that's kind of maybe somebody that's looking for a job that's not necessarily have that certain experience, but maybe a job that doesn't necessarily need that experience, it's like where you can gain that experience as you

do it. So that guide school will probably be a really good way to get your foot into elk country, um, through packing, through learning about horses, because you can you can learn that skill um, And it's like, uh, I wouldn't say it's like a It's like that's something that can be taught without and you'll get that experience while doing it. And then as you get years of going into the field and you'll start learning about elk, you'll start understanding how to elk hunt, and then you can

build some of that elk hunting skill. So I would say the first thing is, you know, obviously get out, get experience, and then with that experience, go to place that makes sense to get a job somewhere that's nearby, somewhere that you um have interacted with, hunted with, Somewhere that you can kind of understand, like there's guys that know an area um, those guys that are always probably

at the top. The guys that know an area and then know how to hunt the animals in that area are probably the you know, the top of the resume heat. And then there's those guys that really know the animals and can go anywhere. Those guys are at the top, and then there's you know, kind of the bottom, the guys that are like working their way up, but they've got to do other jobs to kind of get up

to that position where they can actually eventually guide. So that's how I would say if I was your like hunting guide, school, guidance counselor those would be my tips and how to make hunting and outdoors lifestyle living. One thing I should say is I think a lot of people don't realize, and this is every state is different, But as many rules as there are for hunting, there's probably even more rules and regulations over guiding and outfitting

because it's not something in most places now. So this is just like one of those things like learn the laws of the land. I don't know where you live, so I'm not giving you legal advice for anything, but I am saying that it's not something where you can just say, oh, I really want to UM be a guide, So you just throw up a website, start advertising, and have people pay you to take them out. That's not legal almost anywhere. UM. There's a lot of hoops you

have to jump through. There's a lot of things that you have to do. So there's guides and there's outfitters. So a guide is the person that was like in the field physically like UM taking the person out, and then an outfitter is somebody that's allowed to hire guides. So in most states, especially out West, only an outfit is allowed to receive money. And it's actually a felony to call yourself an outfitter if you're not an outfitter, like in the state of Montana, that would be a felony.

If I said I'm an outfitter and I'm not an outfitter, that's felony because there's so many hoops that somebody would have to jump through to become that position that if you don't have those requirements, then you know, it would kind of like circumnavigate. UM. A system that's set up that includes like UM liability insurance, that includes legal permits to be on certain lands like forest service permits, UM, state land leases all kinds of stuff. There's a lot

of different things. So generally, if you want to get into guiding, you have to work underneath an outfitter. It's licensed, that's insured. UM. Generally you have to have your own license or your own insurance UM in order to be an outfit or you often have to take a test. You often have to UM you know, have certain permits and other things. So it's not something you can generally just start up and do. Now, every state's different, you know, maybe uh the Midwest or East. You know, if you're

on your own private land, that kind of changes some things. UM. Certain places obviously you got to look into that. But you know, you would have to start under an outfitter generally speaking, and can get a license through whatever state you're in. UM. And it is a very regulated kind of thing. So accepting money to take people hunting in most places is illegal unless you have the proper licensing.

So I should put that out there, is like just so people know, because I don't think a lot of people realize that there are a lot of hoops and a lot of things you've got to jump through to do that. So that's why you always start out working as a guide underneath an outfitter and then from there. Like when I got my outfitting license, you have to have a hundred days registered through an outfitter before you

can even test for your outfit a license yourself. Um, so there is a lot of things that you have to go through, But to start out, you would be applying as a guide underneath an outfitter, and that's the way that you would start to get into it. Thank you all against so much for listening. As always, I appreciate all the support, comments, everything. Next week we're gonna be doing one of my favorite episodes, which would be

the Christmas Special. I don't know what it is about the holiday season, but I love doing the Christmas Special. I'm going to be doing a massive giveaway. I got thousands of dollars worth of gear, including a fully kidded out Matthew's bow to your exact specifications, some shnas, boots, stone glacier, pack, tent, sleeping bag, some stuff from Vortex Optics, some stuff from Yetti, some day six arrows and broadheads, a little bit of everything you need to go on

a awesome bow hunting adventure of your own. Minus the tags. So if you want in on that giveaway, you got to go to my website remy Warren dot com. You can scroll to the bottom and there's a little thing to enter your email address. If you enter the emails, just sign up from my mailing list. You will be automatically entered. If you've already done it. Uh, you're already entered. You don't have to worry about again. If you haven't going there, sign up for it. Hopefully you're the winner.

Maybe you're listening to this now and you're like, that could be me, that that definitely could be you. I appreciate you all so much. And until next week, let's say let your heart be your guide. A little bit of Jimney cricket wisdom. M