Ep. 121: No, Turkey Hunting and Elk Hunting Are NOT the Same

well do a podcast to set the record straight. This week, I'm gonna be talking about how elk hunting is absolutely not like turkey hunting. Well, there might be similarities in

calling the physical hunting of them is very different. As a guide, I find that most of the hunters who have not hunted elk are they're pretty much indoctrinated to think that the two are nearly the same, and those hunters come completely unprepared in my mind, So I'm going to honor the turkey today by saying they're very fun to hunt, but the hunt is different than elk hunting. All kinds of hunting has crossover tactics. I'm going to break down the things that every new or veteran hunter

needs to know about chasing the elusive bull elk. But before we do that, I want to tell a funny story of the ball cap turkey. When I first started guiding elk hunters, a very popular theme that I didn't really realize was the thing. It's like a lot of guys would show up and they did never elk kund and be like, oh, elk hunting is just like turkey hunting, And I was like, man, where is the where is

eyone getting this? But at the time, it seemed like nearly every article was relating turkeys and elk tactics, so it's like, if you turkey hunt, these are tactics that you use for elk. And what they neglected to talk about was the major differences as well. So it's like people would show up and in their mind elk hunting and turkey hunting were nearly identical, like, you do the same thing that you would do turkey hunting to chase elk, and about in the first fifteen minutes of elk hunting,

people are like, wow, this is completely different. This is nothing like turkey hunting. And the major factor in there is inserting large mountains and large distances to go over. Yes, turkeys call, yes, elk call. But outside of that very few similarities. The actual hunt, the actual physical physicality of chasing elk is so much different than most people. By the midday of the first day, we're like, this is absolutely nothing like turkey hunting. And I think that that

statement is very true. So in this particular week, I had a guy that was he was a die hard turkey hunterer, done the turkey slam amn thing, trying to shoot turkeys all over the place, and this was his first eltcome. He's just you know, everything, Like I mean, we all have those certain things that we love to hunt. We grew up hunting, obsessed about hunting. I would say, this guy was a turkey nut to the fullest. And so he's like, yeah, you know, I really want to

lk hunt because it's just like turkey hunting. I love turkey hunting all this stuff. And I'm like, yep, you know. I was like all right, and then I'm thinking to myself, man, this guy is in for a rude awakening. So we go out the first day and it's just like bull bugles, bugle, bull bugles, I'm like, it's like turkey in, you know, at this point it is, it's like gobble, gobble, here we go, right, And then it was one of those scenarios where the bull starts pushing the cows away and

I'm like, all right, here we go. This is where it changes. And now it's like we gotta dog this bull. We gotta get here, we gotta try to cut them off because calling the bull to us isn't gonna happen. We've got a million miles of public land. We can go anywhere we want, and we're gonna go everywhere those out go and the chases on so moving, trying to call, trying to get the bull in, going up the mountain, and it's just like one of those dogging all day chase. Move.

I'm like, all right, move, gets set up and then we get get the bull coming in. I'm gonna get yourself set up, you know, And then maybe there's some cows around just getting too timid, and I'm like, all right, you gotta get set up better, like getting behind the brush and getting in front of brush and all this stuff. Right,

just a few little mistakes here and there. Had the bull come in a couple of times, and then chase again, moving moving, and then you know, completely exhausted by about half day, and then we pretty much keep keep hiking, keep hunting. Um. Then about mid day kind of switched tactics over spot and stock kind of stuff. By the end of the day, the guy is like, this is absolutely nothing like Turkey inning, especially because it's just so physical,

so um, not really expecting that portion of the mountains. Yes, they're calling, but the physical aspect of it, the having to go where the elk are going, completely just kind of blindsided. I'm like, yeah, I've seen that happen many times. So we're going and we end up the next day getting on some bulls uh doing like a spotting stock

kind of thing, and then ended up going back. I think we had to grab something, you know, from we're staying and at the time I was guiding out of this like, um, kind of like a motel sort of sad like a motel and restaurant and bar thing all connected. It's pretty much middle and nowhere in Montana. And so we're going back there and before we pull in, you know, we're talking about Turkey unting. The guy's laughing like, oh man,

this is nothing like turkey hunting. And he's like do you you know He's curiously like, oh, do you turkey hunt? And I was like, around here, we don't really turkey hunt, um not, because like there's just other things chase chase bearers and whatever, nothing like turkey hunting or whatever. I was like, I could see it being more appealing to me other places, Like I've gone other places hunting turkeys, but around here it's just like it's pretty easy hunting,

you know. It's like turkeys are pretty dumb. And he's like, no way, no way, turkeys are dumb. He's like he's like, I I just can't agree with that, Like the turkey is the smartest animal out there. And I was like okay, and like literally he just said that, and I was like, I'll show you at turkey And he's like, so you pull up in the park. Uh. And he steps out and there's been like this flock of turkey's living behind

the bar. So I get out and as soon as I get out, I just give it a gobble, like and from up on the hill behind the bar there's like turkey gobbles. So all right, here we go giving it some mouth puts, and here comes the flock, like the entire flock of turkeys in this formation, just running

as fast as they can write to us. And as the turkey gets close to the truck, I popped my hat off and throw it and ring it right around the front turkey's head, and that turkey just goes listic, just like it kind of like the hat got stuck on its head and it's it's flopping around and it's flapping its wings and shaking its head and doing the

whole dance. And I am just rolling laughing because here we were just talking about how difficult the turkeys are, and I was telling him around here, they aren't that that hard. And then you can pretty much kill him with attack hammer and then do a perfect ringer uh first call set up of the day, essentially right around the turkey's head with the hat. And I called it the ball cap turkey. All week we're just joking around about there's butterball turkeys and then there's ball cap turkeys.

And in this part where we were at a lot of ball cap turkeys. Now, I don't want anyone to think that I don't enjoy turkey ending, but I like to tell those kind of stories. It's fun because I like to think of l hunting much like elk hunting, and there's a few tactics and a lot of differences that if you understand the differences and hunt elk like elk,

you're gonna be a lot more successful. So I thought it'd be fun to just kind of do a play on the elk hunting is like turkey hunting and talk about some of the major differences and then how to exploit elk and use those tactics there are specific to

elk hunting. I think whether you're a veteran hunter, whether you're a new hunter, whether you want to hunt elk because you love hunting turkeys, which is absolutely the truth of if you enjoy that interaction of calling animals, September elk hunting and spring turkey hunting has that same kind of excitement level of we're calling something in we're conversing with the animal. Those similarities are very true. But I want to talk about the differences and how to exploit

those differences for elk. So the first thing that is different between elk and turkeys is elk don't roost in trees. Sometimes they bed, sometimes they feed but understanding what an elk is doing at night can help you make your play during the daytime. And I think that's a tactic that is often overlooked by elk hunters or hunters in general.

What I mean by that is, you know, think about this, like what elk generally do in the mornings and evenings is they are they're in a feed pattern, and that's probably the easiest way to exploit or or pinpoint elk during the day is going from that feed area because that feeding area is going to be more open. Whether like even if you're in thick cover. If you think of hunting elk like mornings and evenings they're feeding, then it can kind of help you narrow down your search, um,

even if it's in the timber or whatever. It kind of lets you know like what they're doing, but what they're doing. So, like, let's say you find a group of elk that's feeding out in the evening. Okay, so

you're like, okay, there's some milk. Let's say you're in call it New Mexico, big like flat areas and then it's like thick timber around and you've got this perfect beautiful like meadow park Okay, So and you see you see some elk feeding out there, and you're like, sweet, maybe see it from a distance, whatever you like, Sweet, what am I going to do next? I don't have time to make a play tomorrow, or maybe it's the rut and you're like, okay, am I going to start

out hunting from here? What am I gonna do? So what's your next play? Well, you're gonna have to make a play for the morning, and you need to know what the like, how those elk are going to act from where you last saw them the night before. So what I like to do is decide whether the elk are going to be feeding all night or whether they are essentially going to be in the timber early the next day or moving, like maybe they'll be in a different spot. Do am I gonna be able to expect

those elk in the same place? Or am I going to probably expect them somewhere different? So knowing what play to make the next day, and here's a few of the factors. So when it elk comes out and feeds in the evening, a lot of times what they'll do is they'll feed and then they'll just bed essentially in the feed and then they'll wake up, they'll continue to feed,

and they'll move off into cover. There are times though, where the elk will feed and then they'll continue to travel or go to a different spot, or they'll feed, they'll move into the timber after dark, and then in the mornings they'll come back out and feed. So these

are a lot of options. And here's how I kind of decipher what potentially those elk are gonna do, when they're going to move, and how to kind of proceed the next day, just playing that chess game of trying to think, okay, a few steps ahead, what are the elk are doing? Because when a turkey goes to bed, is sitting in the tree and then be in that tree the next morning? I would say probably of the time.

You know, there's always of the possibility of hurricane could bloat out of a tree and go into the next tree down down the way, But for the most part, they're gonna stay in that roost. Elk don't always stay where we last see them, but it's nice to be able to decide whether they will be there or where where they might go. And I think the major factors are light of the moon and weather during the night.

So if I see some elk feeding in a certain area and they come out evening time and then I know that there's gonna be no moon and no crazy weather, then generally those elk I find I found, like just through pure observation of being out thousands of days watching elk, most of the time, they're gonna just bed in that meadow and be or right on the edge and be

there in the morning. Now, if there's a lot of moon and a lot of light, now that means that it's not cloudy, it's it's not essentially the moon itself, like, oh, the moon's out and it's affecting the way these animals are moving. It's more factor of the amount of light,

the visibility, and how safe they see. Often what happens is they'll be feeding throughout the night because they can see, and then before daylight they start to move into the cover earlier, whereas if there wasn't a lot of light, they might feed, bed, wake up, feed going to cover. So if it's going to be a lot of light, then I expect those elk possibly to be nearby, because

I think that they're still going to feed. They're gonna use that meadow all night, and then they're going to feed nearby, and they'll be in kind of some cover. So I might adapt my tactic a little bit more. I might go kind of start a little bit earlier in those bedding areas or those areas that I think that they would move to later in the day if it's bright out at night, or potentially saying that they might move or travel to another area. So I'm not

necessarily expecting to see those elk the next morning. Now, if it's like, um, major wind, major storms something like that over the course of the night, then I expect the animals to kind of be bedded up, like go into the cover of something where they're out of the wind, something where they aren't going to be is blasted by

that weather, and then move out and feed. Often eaters, so I know that that will probably be a good day to also hunt the feed because they're going to be probably out feeding a little bit later if they've got this storm. Sometimes it might even be waiting until something clears, especially if the temperature is dropping. Um. So those are those are just factors to think about when you see elk in the evening feeding and then how to make kind of an assessment, guess the next day

what they might be doing. Second major factor in understanding elk and elk hunting, especially when it comes to calling elk, and I don't think it can be stressed enough, but the setups are not often very close. When it comes to elk hunting, you just have to have in your mind that you're probably going to have to walk a lot, even if I mean, there has been so many hunts where I have got let's say I've got a bold

bugled from the road or the truck. Most of the time, in order to call in and elk you have to own form chase them down. They cover a lot of ground. There's a lot of ground to be had um and because of that, you know there's a lot of footwork in between. When you think about elk hunting, you need to think about elk hunting in the frame of reference.

Like if you change your mindset from like thinking about like, oh it's uh, they're calling and the calling makes it easier, you need to think about the calling makes them maybe easier to find and susceptible to getting close, but you're gonna have to cover a considerable amount of ground. When we are doing art. Like when I'm archery hunting, whether it's my myself guiding clients, the days are longer one and this lends to it, but also the animals are

moving more. We cover a lot more ground during the archery season than we do the rifle season. The elk aren't moving as much. During rifle season, you might have to go further and get further away from roads and other things. But over the course of that amount of daylight during archery season, when elk are making noise, you're chasing them a lot further. And I think that you really need to be prepared for the factor of elk

is a physical deal. If you think of elk hunting more like a sheep hunt, where it's like, hey, I'm going on when a guy goes on a sheep, I it's like I got to get in sheep shape. I gotta get prepared, and I prepare physically and mentally. They're they're getting prepared now. I know that in recent years has been more of a topic, like people are understanding

that elk hunting is a very physical endeavor. But even when like you get what I would consider an easy elk, most of the time you have to put in some serious footwork, and preparing for that footwork is probably one of the leading factors in success. I always say, like, if somebody can keep up, if you can hike, if you can hunt hard, you just you just guarantee your success in many ways, because the ability to go day and day out is what leads to a lot of

elk being taken, especially if you're new at it. You can kind of compensate for lack of knowledge by just lack of grit and determination by being able to when you find the elk, keep up, keep going, and keep after it. So what that means is in the off season, in the time off, it's preparing physically for those long, all day hikes and preparing mentally knowing that, hey, I'm

getting myself into something that's very physical. And that's the difference when I'm every time I've been turkey hunting, well, I take that back, I've done some mountain turkey and so I'm like, Okay, I had to put in quite a few miles. But for the most part, you know, preparing and knowing that before sun up you're gonna be hiking.

When you hear the elk bugle, you're gonna be hiking in order to call an elk, and you're probably gonna have to chase them down and cover a lot of ground and go to them, even because you hear one bugle over there. I would say every ten elk may I don't know. Let's say we call at a hundred elk two might come to us over considerable distance. Out of a hundred that you get going most of them, you gotta go cut a distance, get close, and then throw out those call tactics to bring that bolt to

your location. Now, whether it's now let's to turn that into like late season rifle hunting or whatever, You're still gonna have to cover a considerable amount of ground. There's a lot of footwork needed to be consistently successful in elk, and knowing that preparing for that in the off season

is just gonna give you more success. So, whether you got kind of your whole life or or new to it, knowing that you're gonna have to put in some time hiking, being prepared to cover some terrain in the mountains is

gonna make you more successful. So some of the things that I like to do in the off season is like just I've talked about it before, and whether you live in mountains or not, getting in your mindset of preparing, Like I've got to prepare for an elk hunt, and I've got to be physically ready for it, So putting on that weighted pack, covering ground during the off season, hiking, you know, like running, getting physically fit and physically active. The more, I would say, the better shape you're in,

the better your successory it's going to be. And that's just across the board when it comes to elk hunting. And the third tactic that is different than turkey hunting and they can be exploited to find success is the fact that elk are a lot harder to carry than turkey. And what I mean is you're gonna have to pack

it out and you need to plan accordingly. But also when I was I would say, I don't know, I was about maybe eighteen or nineteen, you know, like growing up kind of like this philosophy, Like you would see elk or like you know, hunting with my dad when I was a kid, or like with my grandpa when I was a kid. Um, we're like just you know, going out with random people elk hunting and they'd be like, oh yeah, like there's probably elk there, but man, you

don't have to carry it out of there. That's along, you know what I mean, just like worried about the pack out portion, and a lot of people are like, you know, I mean there's there, obviously there's exception, Like some stuff is just really difficult. You I want to get yourself into that scenario. Maybe. But one thing that I started doing was like, I'm gonna think about the places that are just horrible to carry an elk out, and those are the going to be the places that

I go hunt. And I started finding like a lot easier success. I'd be like, wow, I went in there, I killed an elk on day one, day two, and I spent the next three days packing it out. But hey, I was it was either that or I was going to spend the week um potentially chasing elk and not getting anything and putting in the same amount of hard work.

Is just going into the place that a lot of people shunned because it would be difficult to get the elk out and then just taking my time packing it out, you know, obviously making sure the conditions are right where I could hang the meat and get it out all okay, but flipping my mindset of being like they are harder to carry, they are hard to carry, they can be difficult to pack out, and then pinpointing those places of like, man, I don't really want to pack an elk out of

here hunting that because it's it's a way to kind of like find elk the other people don't want to chase. Now as the third difference of elk hunting and turkey hunting is, I think turkeys actually have a lot better eyes sight than elk. And it's one thing that you want to think about. I've said it before, but I feel like a lot of people don't realize like what you can get away with with elk in many in many ways, not that they don't see you, but the elk is kind of like the t rex if you've

seen Jurassic Park of the animal world. If you freeze and don't move, they don't see you most of the time as long as their eyes are obstructed. Like if you're in Timber and there's a herd of elk, you can move and get away with a lot because they're used to movement. Another things, especially if you're mixing and calling and other stuff. Now you can't do something blatantly stupid.

You don't want to to spook the animals, but you also don't need to, Like like I would say, if if a flock of turkeys came in and there's a bunch of hands and whatever, you probably aren't gonna get away with a lot of sneaking around because they're gonna catch that movement and they're gonna be gone. They have incredible eyes sight, whereas elk, they're kind of more mellow about that movement there. They aren't as finicky about where

you set up. Like you can set up in front of a you can almost set up in in places where it's like not that I wouldn't say, like moose setups where you're like, okay, I'm like standing out in the open um and calling and just not moving, but um, you can get into positions where you need to get

set up to make that shot. When it comes to elk, kind of like being able to set up correctly when a bull might be coming in is huge, And I think what happens is a lot of people get timid because there's like a cow ninety yards over here feeding and she's not really paying attention, but they see that other animal, like I can't move, Um, they freeze and in like instead of getting in a good position or worried about spooking that cow, that might catch a little

bit of movement in the timber. And the odds are if you watch the eyes of the elk, if you put their eyes behind something, you've got enough cover and you can move kind of like do that undetected movement if they can't. If you can't see their eye, they can't see you, and kind of edging on did I would say, edging on the level of dangerous just to

get into a good position. Go for it. If I know, like, hey, I'm going to I could potentially like um, maybe you know, like spook a cow or something, but I need to get into this better position. I opt for going for that better position because I found that a lot of success, especially when it comes to calling elk or whatever, is just being in the right position. And sometimes you have

to move around and get into that position. And you can do that by observing the eyes of the animals, and then you can get away with a little bit more knowing that their eyesight is good, but it's probably not their best defense. Now, if you're out in the wide open and you're just doing something stupid. Yeah, they're going to see you and run away. That is a very likely scenario. But for the most part, I try

to kind of like hedge my bets. I say what's better to blow them out or to not be in position? And sometimes you might say, oh, I don't want to blow them out, But I try to find those scenarios where it's like, I'm not gonna blow them out. I'm gonna be able to move and get into the right spot. But also when that bowl comes in, I'm going to be in the good spot to make that shot. And I found a lot of success doing that. Well. I hope everybody enjoyed that podcast. I just want to say

Happy Thanksgiving again. Hopefully you're enjoying your family today. Maybe you're going out hunting. I know for my family, it's a big tradition to go hunting, And another big tradition is cooking wild game during Thanksgiving. So as a extra little bonus, I uploaded a video one of my favorite ways to prepare venison. Could be white tail, could be elk, could be access to here, it doesn't matter what you've got, could be wild pig. One of my favorite ways to

prepare it, especially around the holidays, Thanksgiving and Christmas. It's kind of like the stuffed loin. So on my remy worn YouTube channel, I got a new video up there, my stuff to loin recipe. It's definitely a crowd pleaser one that every but he really enjoys. So if you get some time, want to check that out or want to find a cool way to make some venison this Thanksgiving added in spice it up a little bit. Uh, definitely go check that out. I appreciate you all listening.

Next week, we're gonna be doing one of my favorite kind of episodes, which is the Q and A. So make sure to get your questions in. Um, because I've been in and out of service a lot lately hunting seasons, still kind of rolling around, still guiding them, Like I find that the message has kind of been getting buried the way that I've been doing it. I used to just say, send me a message on Instagram. Then when I see one pop up, I screenshot it, but I

have trouble refinding them again. So UM, We're gonna do it a little bit different this week. It's I'm gonna put a post up today on just like ask your question, then you can ask your question in that post, so I can just find it there on Instagram. Still, I know there's it's not the most perfect way to do it,

but I'll do it that way. And then, you know, if you don't feel like asking a question, but there's a question on there that you see that you want, like it because then I can rank it like top comments, and then I can do those ones, and then maybe I'll scroll through and find something that I just find enjoyable as well or really want to answer, and also feel free to ask. Like it doesn't have to be

a lengthy question. It could just be a short question of like a quick answer if you if you've got any like you know, maybe we can get some quick hitters in there as well, if you just rapid fire question type of things. And oh also I would say if you are leaving a question on there, because it is kind of you know, anybody can see those leave out your units or whatever. I I never want to

put somebody's spot on blast. I know some people don't really think of it like that, but there is enough people that read it maybe say, oh, I was hunting in this unit in New Mexico saw a lot of good bulls. I was like, I always leave that out of the direct message questions, So um, just leave it out and then we don't have to worry about putting

somebody's spot on blast. Whether it's somewhere you hunt a lot or somewhere you hunting for the first time, just ask the question regardless of the unit, because it's a little bit um. The tactic will be the same. I don't need to know exactly where you're at, and I think that would be good. I appreciate you all for listening, checking in, tuning in sending the questions, looking forward to it.

This will be definitely the last Q and A of the year, maybe the last Q and A, so we need to make sure that if you want, if you've got any burning questions, get them in on this one. I appreciate everyone. Happy Thanksgiving, and I'm just gonna end it with