Ep. 12: Backcountry Elk Hunting with Nate Simmons

I Y hunter. He is the producer and co host of The Western Hunter TV show and has written numerous hunting articles. His success as an elk hunter is second to none, and today I wanted to sit down and pick Nate's brain on some of his tactics that leads to this consistent success. Welcome to the show, Nate. Well, then, thank you to be here. Decided to talk to elkund about how's everything going over there at the Western Hunter. Good. It's been extremely busy lately. This is always like about

our busiest time of the year. We just uh, we just got our first episode of the new season off on Monday, UM and that first one is always way tougher than any of the ones that follow up. So the rest of them, Yeah, for sure. Do you have any big hunts signed up for this fall? Um, you know, nothing out of the out of the ordinary. It doesn't look like it. I mean, I'm still waiting on a couple of states draw results, but I don't really anticipate a whole lot of luck there. But um, I am

still pretty excited. I've got I've got my normal elk cunning lineup, you know, kind of my what's been my standard, which is Wyoming, Idaho in Montana, and all those this year are you know, their general season over the counter hunts, which I'm just probably more excited than I ever have been because it does feel to me like, uh, this may not be the last year that I get all three of those, um in one season, but it very likely could be. Like I feel really really lucky that

I've got all three of those in my pocket. For sure. Yeah, it's definitely getting harder, especially Melteer tags are are still somewhat available, but man, the elk tags are getting tough to come by. I got I got great information yesterday. I was able to draw a two percent tag here in Washington. So it's an extra ook tag for me. Yeah, yea,

so it was a little pleasant surprise. We have some decent hunting here as long as you can get one of the very few tags they have so added added to my fall Rocky or Roosevelt Rocky down in the Blues down in southeast Washington's got really really lucky. Man. Have you have you ever hunted there before? I did. My wife had the tag in uh fifteen and um saw some some great bowls. Um, so I'm excited to get back and and you know run run loose through

the area. You know, definitely rugged, rugged terrain, and you know, sometimes tough hunting there at the end of October. But the nice thing is, you know, going in that there's a big bowl somewhere in that unit. It's just up to me to go find it. So alleviates the first part of you know, going to find a big or be even being in a unit with one. You know, they're they're just finding them and trying to find one that the the wolves haven't turned into toothpicks. Yeah exactly. Yeah, yea.

So well we're gonna start this podcast off like all of them. Um, We're gonna take some questions that you know kind of pertain to your experience and your expertise. And if you have any questions out there in the audience, UM that you want to ask our guests, please email us at ct D at Phelps Game Calls dot com. We'll take your questions, pass them on to the experts

and and see what their answers are. So, the first question that the listeners had for you, Nate was with some great elk hunting existing in grizzly dense areas and and knowing a little bit of your past, what are the dues and do nots while hunting in grizzly country and how have you kind of adapted and coped with um, you know, not necessarily being the apex predator, but still wanting to get into some of that country and uh

hunt it. And then if you can elaborate a little bit on gun versus bear spray, and then you know some of your camping in grizzly country, um, you know, tactics or or advice. Okay, yeah, I would say, I guess.

I mean really it's like I've been hunting in grizzly country, Like my first hunt in Grizzly Country is probably like ten years ago, and there's been maybe a year or two that I haven't hunted in Grizzly Country over that time, but you know, definitely the majority of those and even like last year, I did two hunts in Grizzly Country, one in Wyoming and Montana. But so I have experience, but it's definitely still like an evolving, uh you know,

like a system that I'm coming up with. I'm still making tweaks and and uh, you know, stuff to my you know, just to my system. But I would say probably like the number one thing that I think is really important where it's not I mean, it's always important, it's not as important outside of Grizzly Country, and that is to try to always hunt with another person if possible, um, you know, which you know, like I rarely ever are going at elk hunt alone anymore, like especially in Grizzly Country.

I mean I've self filmed a couple of elk hunts um over the years, but never in Grizzly Country. And that's something I highly doubt that I would ever even attempt. Um. There's just so you know, it's just much more likely in my opinion that you're gonna have trouble if you're

completely alone. Um. You know, and pretty much any time I feel like it's a detriment to be alone, but particularly when you get one down, um you know, Like I mean last year, for example, I the bull I killed was down in a like a just a little crick bottom where it was kind of a deep little cut there. And when I was down working on the elk, like I couldn't see anything, and we knew there was

at least two bears in the area. Um, So it was really nice to have Randy it was with me stay up like out of the wash a little bit to where he could kind of uh you know, keep his his eyes and ears going where I was right next to the creek couldn't hear. Um. So I feel like, you know, that would be the number one thing just from a safety standpoint, is to always you know, at least be in pairs. Um. And then also to have

GPS communication device. UM. I feel like that's really kind of you know, a good idea no matter where you are. But I think in in grizzly country, even if you think you're gonna have sell service, I think it's just really foolish to go out there without a backup way

of communicating. Um, which kind of like would tie in with another piece of advice I would have is that, um, you know, if you don't have your own pack animals, I think having an outfit or lined up to retrieve your elk with you know, horses or mules is a really good idea if you're in grizzly country, even if you're not planning on being that far back. I mean, if you just if you end up being back a little ways, um, you know, just having somebody lined up

to help you. I mean that's some of like my most pleasant experiences hunting in grizzly Country is on hunts where I've been able to contact an outfit or and either do a drop camp just having packed me in and dropped me off, which there's a there's a huge benefit in that too. I Mean, normally I just backpack when I'm elk cuttings. I just feel like I'm the most mobile that way. Um, you know, it's just less

things to worry about. But uh, doing the drop camp, having an outfit are dropped me allows me to take a nicer camp, which it is a little safer in grizzly country. I mean generally I would take an electric fence, um, you know, and uh, you know, a bigger tent that you know, we could both be inside of. Just I feel like there's just a lot of things that you know, um, safety measures that we can take, uh you know, more rope all that sort of stuff. So I do like

that as well. But the but the biggest thing is when you get an elk down. I mean, the second I recover my elk, I'm on the phone, you know, give him a call and said, hete come get me, you know, and it's just so nice. I mean, there's enough things for me to be stressed out about hutting in grizzly country, like not having to go worry about getting my animals or take care of them, just know one. And it's also just peace of mind when you're processing

that elk knowing that there's help on the way. Yeah, those are great tips. Nate, and I have to ask gunn or spray. I wouldn't go out without both, um.

But like I said, since there's always somebody with me usually what what the system that I have is that I have bear spray on me and I'm usually in front, you know, when I'm hunting, and and then uh, you know, Randy's generally he's with me an awful lot in grizzly country, and then he usually packs a ten millimeter glock with some you know, pretty serious bare loads and uh, you know, like personally, like if if the conditions are right, like I would much rather use spray for a lot of reasons.

I just feel like there's more forgiveness there. Um, you know, you don't, I mean, like with a pistol, like who knows if you're gonna be able to be accurate enough? And the last thing, you know, I mean like certainly i'd pulled the trigger, you know, if I if I really felt like my life was in danger. But just hearing the stories of people that have had to kill them, um, of what they've had to deal with, it's like I want no part of that, um you know. So that's

the system we go with that. That the downside to me, like Randy and I go backpacking and we're both in one man tents, Like I only have a spray in my tent, you know, and that's not gonna do me a whole lot of good inside of my tent if a bear came in at night. But um, but when I'm out in the field, I do feel like just having a combination of the two is a is a pretty good system. Got you. Um, do you recommend as long as that you know, the forest isn't too dry

and you're gonna burn the whole place down? Do you recommend building the fire? You know, if it's a nighttime breakdown of that bowl or you know, do you do you build fires or do you tend to just put somebody on watch? Um? Yeah, like I said, it's like you said, it's it's really conditioned. Um, you know, just dictates that. Like I recovered a bowl with Randy Um several years ago and there was snow on the ground, um and so, and I called the packer as soon as I recovered the elk, but I knew he was

not going to get there that day. He was going to get there you know late the next morning. We're just too far for him to come, you know, that same day. So we knew, you know, there was no rush. We just took her time and uh process the elk. But yeah, we definitely we started a bonfire on that deal because there was no h you know, there was no fire restrictions, and uh, we were not worried about, uh, you know, the fire getting away from us. But yeah,

that definitely was a little piece of mind there. And we have done it other times where we've had bears. We had a bear come in um to us when we were eating dinner one night, got super close to us. Um. It was just one of those deals where my head's always on a swivel when I'm in a grizzly country, like constantly, whether it's day or night. But just we're both just sitting there. We had the pistol in between us. We're sitting on the ground eating our mountain house and

just every so often it was pitch dark. I just kind of shined my light out through the meadow and just kind of subconsciously without even thinking about it. And I did it once and looked over and there was two eyes like I mean fifteen yards um, and he was down wind, coming straight at us. And fortunately he just took off running when we started hollering and stuff, but we were we were really spooked that he was

going to be coming back that night. So you know, we hung our food, went back over to where we had our camp set up, you know, about a hundred fifty yards away, and uh, yeah, we started a little fire that night. Just uh, I don't know if it was really going to keep away or not, but it made us feel little bit better. Another another thing I guess I kind of like to do in uh, in in grizzly country, like I'm gonna be hunting olk and grizzly country is I usually try to stay away from

areas that are really thick. Um. I like to try to pick out areas that are more open with lots of topography so that I can use my eyes as much as possible to locate the elk, versus in areas that are really dense where you constantly have to be covering ground to locate them with your ears. Um. And that's really like that strategy is one that one I

kind of like to begin with. But it's also just a safety thing, you know, Like I just I don't want to go hunt in like in grizzly country and know that my game plan is is I got to cover lots of ground, you know, constantly and be trying to you know, locate elk with googles um. Just because

I feel like the more traveling you're doing in thick cover. Um, you know that's just to me, that just presents more um likelihood that you're gonna end up bumping one because usually you know a lot of times where archery hunters get into trouble is they just bump into one and surprise it. Um. And I've I've had that happen to me where I've bumped bears like very close. But fortunately, um none of them have charged, They've they've ran the

other direction. But I just feel like that, you know, getting up on a glass and spot where I can see and also where I can hear really well. Um, you know, it just allows me to know like I can be hunting very effectively without constantly being happened to be on the move. And I guess the other part of that too is uh is when I'm in grizzly country, I also tend to push my luck a little bit with how close I camp to the U in proximity to the where I think the oak are. Um, I

try to camp a little closer in grizzly country. UM. So it just limits the amount of movement I don't want to have to get up and hike for an hour in the dark to go get to wear the elk car like I'd like to be wake up and feel like they're pretty close, just just to limit my movement, you know, which is really just it's a safety precaution. Really. Yeah, those are those are all great points. And I wanted to add on to your point of hunting with a partner.

I was at a Western hunting summit um just this past weekend and one of the speakers was talking about grizzy hunting and I don't remember the stat and I don't I'm not going to claim to know it, but I know it was exponentially better, like the survival rate of one guy versus a group of two guys versus a group of three guys. By the time you got the three guys, I think the survival rate was like down in the you know, more than you know surviving if it was one, you know, one hunter. So it's

a little bit of information. I don't know the exact stats, but it was exponentially increased that there wasn't gonna be a fatality or any major issues. Um with three or more people. Yeah, no, yeah, for sure. Um, there was like like self filming is definitely not like something that I, you know, I seek out, like I've just ended up

in some situations that I've needed to over the years. Um. But like just to to your point about being with people, there was I don't know, it's probably about three years ago. I was hunting at a general Elk Tag, Wyoming and was hunting with a guy that had taken some vacation off his work to film with me, and we found a huge bowl, biggest bowl that I've ever found on a general tag. It was like a three seventy type bowl, just a monster, and he was in a pretty killable spot.

I called him in once, just barely out of range. Um, And I just felt like if I kept hunting him, I could, I could, I could probably have a good chance at him. And we ran out of time. My buddy had to go back to work, and I still had plenty of time. UM, And I knew, I mean, I absolutely could have went back up there and tried to sell film, but I just thought there was no way. Like if I didn't and if it had been like years and years ago, I might have been fool and

full itsh enough to attempt it. I've just had enough experiences now in grizzly country. I just thought, huge bowl in a great spot. There's no way I'm going up there by myself. So I just packed my bags and went over to Idaho and self filmed over there because I liked my odds of survival felt like they were just a lot higher. And uh, I'm glad that I made that decision. Yeah, yeah, Um, all right, we'll jump

into question number two. Uh, somebody had for you. How long will you typically stay in an area if it seems marginal or you're not finding the elk that you like before you decide to move on and find an area that has more elk and or the elk you're looking for. Um, you know, I would say that really

depends on a couple of factors, um, you know. One would be do I have a good draw tag versus a general season tag, you know, like if I if I have a good draw tag, which you know I don't have very often, but what I do, I'm gonna be more picky, like if I end up in a marginal area, like you know, I'm gonna be swinging for

the fence. I'm gonna be looking for, um, you know, the pot of gold in the rainbow so I'm gonna I'm gonna like, I'm gonna move very quickly if I if I'm not in a really really good situation that I feel great about and I have a draw tag, I'm gonna be moving. But most of the time I have a general season tag or over the counter type

tag in my pocket. And uh, you know, so that that would be the second part of it, And that would have to do with really, um, if I had a marginal area to myself, uh, you know, or if there's other hunters around. So if I'm in an over the counter or general season type unit, if it's a if I feel like it's kind of marginal hunting, but I got it to myself, I'm probably going to stick it out for a while longer because I would just personally, I'd rather have a marginal area with solitude versus an

area that has plenty of elk but also lots of people. Um. So I guess those are just a couple of factors. You know that, you know that if it's a draw tag general and then really if I have it to myself or not. Um, But I guess really, I like when it comes down to making that decision, like do I should I move or not? Um, I know I would always rather move too soon and too late. Um, you know, I mean if if you're thinking about leaving, then it's it's definitely not a great situation to begin with.

And I almost never make a move and wish I was back on the other area, you know, like if anything. Um, you know, like a lot of times I end up moving areas and I kind of wished i'd have done it sooner, gotcha. Yeah, you know, we we always go

by the mantra don't leave elk to find elk. But I also don't like that saying as well, because I I'm not gonna sit and you know, as you mentioned, if there's only a few elk or I feel like my chances of actually you know, making it happen on those few elk, Like I'm willing to leave a few ELK to go find you better elk or better numbers. So yeah, it's definitely on a case by case basis for sure. Yeah, and it's a gamble. I mean, that's

I mean, that's the whole thing. I mean, that's uh, Like last year on my Idaho hut um, I was in a spot that had a decent amount of elk, but it also had an insane amount of people, um And it was I stressed out over what should I leave, Because like, I knew I could find ELK there every day, and I knew that if I left, there's a good chance I could find just as many people somewhere else, or you know, not as many ELK. But in that instance,

it ended up being a good decision. I you know, I moved areas I found about the same maybe maybe even less ELK, but I had the place to myself, and you know, I wished I had made that move sooner for sure. Yeah. So if you have any questions for our guests UM on cutting the distance, make sure to email us ct D at phelps game Calls dot com or hit us up on social anyway to get ahold of us, and we'll make sure to include those

in here. Now we're gonna jump into the discussion some of the questions I had for Nate and some of his tactics, and you know the way he likes to hunt elk. Sony, It's it's well known that you love to backpack hunt for ELK. I would say you're you're pretty dang good at it, but Let's say you were just getting into elk hunting and want to undertake you know, hunting from your back or spiking out or camping with the elk, whatever we wanna call it, you know, all

the different ways we can do it. You know, we go up there hunts where we set up a base camp and we hunt from there. There's there's times where you wake up in the morning, we throw our sleeping

bag in our tent, in our pack and we're moving on. Um, what advice would you have for somebody that's looking to maybe get from you know, road hunting or the traditional day hunting and get into backpack hunting, Like, what would be your advice, um, to maybe give him a shortcut versus some of the stuff that you've learned, you know over the over the you know many years you've been

doing it. Um. I guess for somebody that was just starting out, I would say that, uh, you know, just start out with like one, two or even you know, maybe three night outings max. Um. You know, don't try and just rip off a week long uh you know trip cold turkey. Um. You know. And then also you know with that like start out with uh you know, like two to four mile type range trips, you know, and not try to rip off like a you know, a six twelve mile right out of the gate, you know,

I mean like monster expeditions aren't usually necessary. Um, you know, to me, like the biggest advantage of backpacking is just the efficiency and the time saved hiking back and forth each morning and evening. Um, it's not necessarily like getting ten miles deep. I mean a lot of times, like I've killed a lot of elk where I've only been

three miles you know from from the truck. But you know, like in the mountains with a pack on, if you're having like somewhat rugged terrain with a pack on, like I usually like kind of average going about two miles

an hour, especially if I'm off trail. So if I'm three miles back, that means it's gonna take me an hour and a half one way to get into the morning, and an hour and a half you know, to get out that evening, and then more than likely I'm gonna get in my truck after I get back to back to the truck drive you know, twenty or thirty minutes back to my base camp and then go make a meal and everything by time you get to bed, you gotta you don't get to sleep very much, and you

gotta get up drive back the trailhead like like you get I get so much more sleep, and uh, you know, I just have a lot more energy. Even if it's only three miles back. It's it's more than worth it to me, just from the efficiency standpoint, because in September, as you know, it's like the nights are pretty short, the days are long, like you're not getting a ton

of sleep to begin with. Um, So you know, I just feel like, you know, just because somebody wants to go backpack and doesn't mean Okay, we gotta we gotta go eight miles to make it worth it. I don't think that's the case at all. Um. And I guess the other thing would be just be very critical of what you decide to put in your backpack. Um. You know, like when you're just starting out, it's easy to pack way more than you need, which will really start to

wear on you, especially when the hunting gets tough. I mean, and that's something I still struggle with. You know, I always think I probably need that. It's like if you're trying to decide if you really need it or not,

Like there's a decent chance you don't. It's something you definitely fine tune with experience, but um, you know, really I mean like look up some experienced hunters gearless go through it, you know, and uh, you know, like don't take too much because I will definitely lead to a shorter, you know, more frustrating hunt from my experience, just all that weight on your back. Um. And I guess probably like the last thing um that I would say that

for somebody's not done it before. It's just super critical. It's just to take good care of your feet. Um. I know, it took me a lot of years to realize like that quality boots and insoles were more than worth the money. Um. You know, like that that's just ruined more hunts for me over the years, or even if it hasn't ruined them, it's just really led to me making decisions that probably ultimately weren't the best decisions,

you know, to lead to success. I was making decisions off of how I felt, you know, and when I had blistered feet or I mean like I feel like now I've got my my my boot, sock and insul system so dialed in that even after a really brutal day of hiking with the heavy pack. You know, I get I bet get back to camp, and the last thing I'm thinking about is my feet. Like I used to before I started realizing how important it was to

invest in quality socks and tools and boots. Like even like when I would sit down, like I stopped hiking and I just like stopped to listen for bugles, like instant, I just wanted to sit down and take, like untie my boots. And now I've got everything dialed in. Um, you know, I hardly even think about him. And I do think that is a really really big deal. Yeah, those are those are all great points. And to reiterate what Nate said on you know, miles and then nights, UM,

use those as building blocks. It's a lot easier to do four nights after you've camped for three nights, you know, and then if you want to, you know, extend it to seven and once you've already did a four or five and just build on it. Don't You don't go, you know, twenty miles deep in the wilderness for ten nights. It's just it's not going to be enjoyable right out of the gate. And you know, the thing that some times people overlook is what happens if you do kill

and elk back there. The work just begins. And so yeah, I use use the distance and the nights is building blocks and then you know, build on that. So absolutely we all know backpack hunting UM. You know, steep off gride type country. UM, pretty physically demanding. What do you do to prepare physically? Do you have a regimen? Do you just stay in good enough shape year around? Do you show up and get in shape on the mountain? How do you prepare physically to do this year in

and year out? Um in the mountains? UM? I guess that's also um kind of like hunting in grizzly country. It's just like an evolving strategy. I mean, uh, you know, like I for for years and years when I was younger, I didn't really have to do anything to hunt exactly

the way I wanted to and to be effective. But I'm forty one now, and you know, like every year that goes by, I'm just happen to get, uh, you know, to where I'm I'm committing to doing more in the off season and leading up to hunting season to be able to to uh you know, to hunt the way that I want to. UM. And I still I mean, I don't do as much as a lot of guys. You know. I hear you know, their regiment and uh

you know that's that's great. Un Fortunately for me, I don't feel like I need to do that, and I spend my time doing other things. But what what I do do is I have to be a lot smarter now with my diet, UM so that I don't go into hunting season with too much extra weight on me um. You know, because there was when I was kind of making that transition from being able to be young enough and get away with whatever. You know, I could eat whatever I want to do whatever, and I'd still be

fine too. Now, you know, I was kind of I felt like I was coming out of season, out of hunting season in at the weight and shape that I needed to be in. And now I'm trying to get to where I'm going into hunting season there and so I'm just having to be a lot smarter with what

I'm eating. UM. And uh, you know, it's not like I don't really subscribe just strictly to a keto diet, but kind of especially like in the months leading up to hunting season really just limit the carbs um and uh you know, and and try to uh you know, shed those extra pounds that I definitely are going to help me on the on the mountain. And then as far as like actually training goes, UM, you know, I

keep it pretty simple. UM. You know. I I'm fortunate that I live at like I live over five thousand feet in elevation, so that that's an asset in uh. Uh you know that I don't live down at lower elevation because I know that that can make that's a tough transition going from lower elevation to higher elevation. But I trail run, uh you know, three to five times a week, and I kind of usually just you know, start out less and I ramped that number up as

I get closer to hunting season. But I kind of start that um in the spring, um and then just ramp it up more. Uh you know, as I get closer to hunting season and I'm running like three or four or five miles uh you know. And that's also just kind of something that I start out at less mileage and work my way up as it gets closer to hunting season. UM. And then I do some very basic strength training UM that really has you know, is

mostly just to strengthen my upper body for our treat performance. UM. And that's the same thing, like I don't do it year round. Like I can see that that's probably coming. Um, I'm guessing that I'm probably I mean, there's gonna come a time where this is really going to be more required of a year round just to stay right now, I have you know a little bit of you know, peaks and valleys just in my my physical conditioning. But I'm still at an age where I feel like I

can get away with it. But really where I invest a lot more of my time when it comes to training is in archery. Um. I spend far more time and like just in in in the length of the sessions and just the frequency on on on my archery UM, just you know, just working on my my my shot, my form you know, also as well as just playing with equipment, tinkering with veins and stuff. But I do feel like, I mean, it's all for nothing if you

can't make the shot. UM. So I just personally that's that's where I spend a large amount of my time is on my on my range and you know three D shoots. Um, you know, I take I got one of those little, those little baby like Rhinehart Elk targets. It's easy to throw in the back of my truck and I can take that down to the BLM and shoot on angles and with weird footing and stuff, and I really try to focus on being able to capitalize

when I get a shot opportunity. Yeah, you're your plan at least sounds a lot more more consistent than mine, where you eat for whatever you want for nine months out of the year and then try to get in shape a little bit before season, and then you use Elk season to get in shape. So you're planning stuffinitely

more dialed than mine. But yeah, today's today is actually my thirty ninth birthday, So similar to you, I'm probably running out of times where my thank you, my my mental toughness and uh, everything's gonna just allow me to kind of grand through. I'm enough to probably start putting a lot more work into it, and I should anyways. But um, yeah, so that's great, great tips on getting in stand in shape for for your hunt. So let's let's dive in a little bit here, Nate Um you know,

either you've been do an area. It's always nice if you've been to an area, but um, you know, you can usually stroll back in there and where the elk are at from year to year, they will typically be there. Now, with that said, they're not always going to be in

the same place. But if you're if you're looking at an area, let's dive in a little bit on how you kind of confirm or through eat scouting or what do you do to kind of make sure that you're gonna show up an elk, whether it's you know, talk to biologists, talk to other hunters, talked to you know, what are some of those tips and tactics to make sure you're gonna end up being an elk? Because it's the most obvious thing we can say, but in order to kill an elk, you need to be an elk

or around elk. So walk us through you know kind of your your you know, ea, scouting and proofing an area before you ever show up to the trailhead. Okay, yeah, I mean I still, uh I make this mistake, um, you know, like every once. So while I did it last year and it costs me, but but generally what

I do and has worked really well for me. Is you know, it definitely starts with the scouting um and uh and looking at the aerial imagery, I mean, and I toggle back and forth between the top o and uh, you know, the satellite imagery quite often, because like I was mentioned about Grizzly Country, just from a safety standpoint,

it's also kind of what I prefer. I like to try to pick areas that are open enough and have enough topography that so I can get up on glassing spots and I'm not at the mercy of the rut um, you know that. You know, like that just kind of

drives me crazy. Um, Like if it would be different if if I was only gonna just do if I only if I could only go on one elk hunt, I had a week to hunt, Um, I wouldn't worry about it as much because I would even if I was hunting more and like flat are like thick thick timber type terrain, I would just really try to plan my hunt around a good moon phase and peak of the rut so I could really try to stack the odds of my favor of the bulls being vocal um,

which would kind of you know, negate you know that that that terrain wouldn't you know, stop me from finding them generally. But because I usually I'm trying to, uh you know, go on more than one hunt, I can't just plan every hunt at the at the perfect time. So picking more open terrain that has more topography to it, which is just allows me to feel like I still

have a chance. Even if the bulls are not bugling for whatever reason, or if the ruts not really kicked in, I still like, I still feel like I have a shot, um, you know. And I also so once That's kind of how I try to pick an area, and then when I get there, you know, I just I show up with a bunch of pre marked vantage points and I usually just try to stick to uh until I find

the elk. I definitely try to stick to running the ridgeline stand as high as possible, um and uh you know, and being able to look off one side of a ridge and another but not only use my eyes, but you know that also just allows me to hear both sides very efficiently, and then from there I'll be you know, I'm all right with dropping into the bottom of a canyon, but when I'm just trying to find milk um, you know, like I definitely like to stick to the tops um

and uh and and also camping, you know, just from from an efficiency standpoint, I like to try to camp up high as well, um, just because I feel like that gives me an advantage over a lot of other people because usually you know, there are exceptions, of course, but usually uh, finding water drinking water is a big problem is you know, like when you're camped up on top um, there's usually not water up on top, but I usually still try to camp up there, and it's just worth it to me to have to go out

of my way, make a special trip, you know, drop you know, a thousand feet or fift feet in elevation and pack water back up because I just feel like it. Also it just prevents me from ever like worrying about being late to you know, a glassing spot, or being tempted to leave early because I have a long hike out in the dark or whatever. You know. Just being being able to camp close to the elk, I feel like is a is a big advantage to just because a lot of other hunters are generally wanting to camp

closer to water. What I found is a lot of times, if I'm camped up on top, you know, I can be already be making a play on the elk before the other hunters even show up that day. Um, you know, and that's you know, hopefully I'm in an area where don't have to deal with hunting pressure, but that's getting to be way harder to find than it used to be,

so I just kind of factor that in. I mean, if I don't have to deal with other hunters, great, but I just kind of figure that at least at some point, if not every day, I'm that's going to be a factor for sure. All Right, Yeah, thanks for those tips, and uh now we're gonna jump into elk calling and your strategy and anybody that's watched you, um, you know over the years, you know sometimes you know you're a little more spot in stock. You aren't afraid

to use calls at times. But let's go in um to kind of your strategy and and the older I get and and people might laugh at me for being a you know, owning a running a game call company, and you know, sometimes spot and stock might be the best, you know method because those bulls don't have any idea

that you're on the landscape. You know, if you're keeping the wind right, doing everything else right, you know, it's you got to owe him in a surprise where some people feel that when you call, you know, you're you're giving up your you know, the surprise attack or you know, giving up your location. So what's your opinion on calling? How do you kind of use calling to supplement your

ELK hunt and give us a little bit on that. Well, it's something I'm definitely uh uh you know, working on improving because I feel like really like kind of everybody has like uh like methods that they prefer and generally that's probably just gonna fall in line with what they're what they're most skilled at. And uh, you know, I don't know, I wouldn't say that I'm like like super super skilled when it comes to spotting stock, but I'm definitely more skilled at spotting stock than I am as

a caller. And it's just a confidence thing, you know. It's been like like over the years, I've definitely used calling, um, you know to locate elk, but I just have had I've lacked confidence. Like the last thing I wanted to do when I actually got close to ELK was blowing a call just because of fear of just messing everything up. So uh, you know, over the years, I have been

uh you know, more silent. But I'm also I'm just trying to get better at being opportunistic to where I'm just trying to get better at recognizing a situation and just adapting in the moment um. I'm trying to I'm definitely trying to make that a priority because I mean, and don't get me wrong, I've called in. I mean There's been a lot of times over the years where I've tried to get close without making a sound and realize, hey, that's not going to happen, and also recognize, hey, I'm

in a perfect spot. I'm gonna throw out a cow call here or a bugle and I've had it work. I mean, I mean even no, I I don't really feel like I've I'm a skilled caller. Probably I don't know UHT the elk I've killed I've called in, or at least calling was you know, the reason I ended up killing that bowl. Um, But I'd like to see that number improves just because I know that it just has to do with my confidence level, my skill level.

So it's something that I've really, uh put a big emphasis on over the last couple of years, um, just improving the quality of sounds I can make in the consistency, because it's also just like anything else. I mean, it's one thing to do it at home, you know, and then to do it when you know, like the elk that are a hundred and fifty yards away are going to hear you. Um, you know, just so it's definitely something I've been working on and just trying to recognize that.

I mean, uh, you know, like just if if there's a bunch of other people blowing on calls in the area,

I'm probably gonna be less likely. But if I get into a canyon where the elker being real volke and aggressive and I'm not seeing a bunch of boot tracks, like I should probably switch gears from going hey, don't be quiet, Like I should probably go calling first, you know, because when that works, I mean, they can, as you know as well as anyone, like it can be over really fast when the conditions are right, Yeah for sure.

And and you kind of touched on a little bit like reading the situation and I feel, um, you know, over the last ten years, that's what's maybe helped me become more successful was being able to read the situation like this is, We've been in this situation enough. We've got the experience that hey this you know, I've seen bowls act this way. They've had this many cows, this many satellite bowls. You know, I couldn't approach with the

spot in Stock. The only answer is to call, Like being able to look at a situation and know and Sarah, you know bowl A, I've got a chance to call. You know, I'm being real exact here, but you know, hey that bowl over there, bull be we wouldn't want to call to. We would want to approach with Spot and Stock because of where he's set up, and we've got really good approach and you know, the terrain lays out in a way where he never see me coming,

you know, and then look at bull see. I think being able to evaluate user experience, use the bulls location, you know his how vocally is all of those things, and make an educated decision on you know, whether there's three bowls or whether there's you know, a single bowl that you're gonna go after, Like knowing what gives you the best shot, and then what I've really been working on lately, um is whether to be patient, Like that's

never been an option. It was always you know, hustle over there and called to it, hustle over there in spot and stocket. But now it's hey, maybe waiting a night in and attacking that that situation or that set up in the morning is going to be best. And I feel that's starting to lead to more consistent success with me versus just you know, being young and dumb and charging in every time, putting some information together, having enough experience to make a good, good decision, and then

you know, executing it. Yep, No, I totally agree. That's I guess that's another reason I like, uh hunting an open terrain because I do feel like, just like what you're saying, it gives it gives me a ton of confidence if I can actually see that bull in his behavior and it's just the way that you know, his mannerisms,

how he's interacting with other elk. Like if I can see that, it's one thing to hear their bugle and it's like, well, he might sound pissed, but that doesn't mean like he's an ultra aggressive you know elk that's just intolerant of any other bulls around him. But if you can watch him, you can usually get a pretty good idea and it can change. You mean, you might watch the bull one evening and go, man, he's just

you know, he's just kind of tending his cows. Doesn't seem ultra aggressive, you know, like doesn't seem like a great situation for calling. Maybe and then the next morning, you know, there might be a couple other bulls over there, just got him super annoyed, and you can look at and go, chee, if we can get down there and just squeak off a bugle. Like the way he's acting,

he's probably gonna come over and check it out. Yeah yeah, well yeah, that's great advice on calling and you know, using it when it works, and then you know, not being afraid to go you know, spot and stock to to to finish off the hunt. So one thing I've noticed, Nate, and uh, you know, no fault of your own, but you know it's hunting. A lot of your hunts have you know, have over the years have come down to

you know, final days or even hours. Are there any tips you can give the listeners to like, stay focused, stay committed to the goal. Um, you know, I've I've been able to gain confidence just because I've had enough experience where UM, I wasn't willing to go home empty handed. But shoot, no matter how good I executed everything, no matter what happened, you know, the winds still the wind.

The elk are still the elk. And you know we do end up killing something on day eight of of attend day hunt or day nine of atten day hunt or shoot. Last year, UM, Ryan Lamper's and myself we killed on the last ten minutes that we had in New Mexico. UM, how do you stay positive? How do you stay committed? UM? Are there any tips? Um? You know a lot of it comes with mental toughness, But I want to see if you have any tips out there for keeping people? UM. You know, you know, sticking

to the goal. Uh. And it's something that might not be able to be taught, but if if you have any advice, UM, I'm sure everybody would would love to hear it. Well. I guess one thing for me, UM, that just kind of helps me. UM. I don't know if it's stayed positive. I'm a little bit more. I'm more pestimist than an optimist. But I guess one thing that just kind of keeps me um, you know, more

locked in. Is just I almost feel like that feeling that you get when you're like it's completely hopeless, like that we have no chance, like this is not happening. Like I almost feel like that is prerequisite like to killing and olk like like I just kind of joke around sometimes it's Randy. It's like when we we both get to that point where we're like we completely we just feel like idiots, like we're completely wasting our time,

like we've totally forgot how how to hunt. Help I just feel like, Okay, well, you know, we got that out of the way, now we can go kill one like that. I just feel like that's that's you know, like it's not it's you know, as awful as it feels, I just feel like that's how it always feels. And it just kind of reassures me that it's like this is not even though the moment of that hunt it feels extra special, like it's like nope, this is worse than normal, and it really is, like that's just how

they all feel. And I guess that probably has to do with the fact that like the alkhunts that I've went on have been over the counter like general season type hunts, and they're almost always tough with low odds of success. Um, you know, most people go home empty handed, like they're they're tough hunts to begin with. Even though like I've had some bright spots, like I've had some days that were incredible over the years, most the majority

of the days are very difficult. And even on hunts where you end up taking a bull, it wasn't because the hunting was incredible. You know, it usually feels impossible, and I guess just because that's what I'm used to doing. Um, you know, like I just I don't let it get like get me down, and it kind of helps me stay focused knowing, hey, I might only have a day laft or an evening laft or whatever. Um, you know, it happens when it happens, and you can go from I mean it literally can I have a lot of

the olk I've killed old an hour beforehand. There's no way you could have convinced me that I was going to be standing over a nice bowl like it just when it happens, it happens. Yeah, And that's that's what I use, is my motivation because and it is drawn

from experience. But I think by you know, passing on our experience to somebody that maybe hasn't been there, is very similar to those hunts, like day six or seven, we're struggling, We moved areas, you know, the next area is okay, We're we're in elk, but just nothing's coming together, you know, the wind swirling, whatever it may be. We're just not gonna you know, we're never gonna kill an elk here. And then it only ever takes out one time. Um, it's at one bowl where the wind stays right, he's

committed and it's over just like that. And there have been a few hunts where nothing ever went right besides that one thirty minute window you know, where that bull comes in. We're able to execute everything and and kill it.

But it's knowing that on day six or seven of a hard hunt things aren't going your way, that it only takes one it only takes out one bowl in the one area, UM to do a few things, you know, wrong, and for us to do a few things right, and you would never know that that was a bad hunt. So you're gonna remember success. And uh so, yeah, we we feed off of that, you know, past experience that

it only takes one Yep, absolutely. I mean I love it when when the bulls are going crazy and everything, but you know, most of the all kunts that have ended up being successful for me, that's pretty rare when that happens. And killed killed bulls on hunts where I've only seen one bull, and I've killed bulls on hunts where I've never even heard a bugle. So you know, that just reinforces uh, you know the fact that you

just can't let tough unet and get you down. You just gotta you know, stay after it because you never know that you know, just over the next rise, you know that might be where it all comes together. Yep, yep. Let's jump into the shop. And and you've talked about it just a little bit ago that you're spending a lot of time on archery. You know, if if you're anything like us, we at some point throughout a day

probably think about elk. You know, three or six or five days a year, UM, we were gearing up, we're looking at gear, you know, whatever it may be. We're we're always building success. But everything we do all year long, UM comes down, in my opinion, to one shot and we have to execute that one shot. You know, all these practice shots in our driveway, you know, none of that counts besides killing foam. When it comes down to it,

you know, you get one shot. And when you're in your driveway or in your yard or at your range a lot of times, you know, you're pretty comfortable your heart rates, you know where it needs to be. You're not sweating, you don't have you know, you go out in the mountains, you know you might just put on a heck of a stock to try to cut, you know, off some some elk, you're probably sweating. You've got an elevated heart rate. Um, you've gotta you know, seven pound

live animal in you. You've gotta machieta, missuchito, mosquito maybe maybe chewing on your neck, and you've got to execute that shot. Can you give um you know the listeners some you know your shot process to make sure when it comes down to it, you execute and make a great shot. And um, there's a component to this that and you may be able to to elaborate on it.

It's tough because when you finally get your chance, if you haven't been in that position a whole lot of times, it's tough to control your emotions as well, so kind of wrap up and I still get excited, so I still have to kind of walk myself through that. But you go through that shot process and how to execute a good shot when it matters. Um. Well, I guess this might not be the best answer for an elk

cutting podcast, but it's uh, honestly for me. One of the things that will definitely the thing that's helped me the most is just the high country mulder hunting that I've done and what that's led me to do because on average, uh you know, taking a shot at a high country mule deer and steep terrain, they're they're a smaller target than an elk. They're usually it's it's a lot harder to get close to them. You're not gonna be calling them in. Um, so usually a lot more

challenging shots. And because I usually try to get in high country mulder hunt every year, uh, you know, all out of my my my bow build and my training has to do with setting myself up to be successful um for that, and and you know, like a nice byproduct of that has been if I can get my setup and my uh you know, dialed in to make longer shots at mulder and steep terrain, and I can you know, get my my equipment dialed into where I feel comfortable with those shots, Like shots on elk feel

really easy, um and you know, And so my training has a lot to do with really preparing, Like when I'm doing my training instead of my bow, like, I'm really I'm not thinking about elk. I'm thinking about that, you know, one shot that I might get at a high country mule deer and knowing that it's going to be potentially a lot longer shot. Um. And you know,

they have a tendency to jump the string. So I'm really focused on trying to get my arrow flight as quiet as possible, my my my bow as quiet as possible.

But I'm just I'm really like when I'm practicing, I'm really challenging myself stretching out the stints, um, you know, and shooting uh you know at long distances at my three D deer target, um, you know, and just really trying to get comfortable, um you know, holding my pen in a in a small area on long shots and all that translate into like when I get to full

drawn elk, like it usually feels really super comfortable. Just but but if all I did was ELK and that's all I was gearing up for, you know, I might, I might approach it a little bit differently, and you know those shots might feel the more challenging. But I know, like being geared up for those Dear um, you know, definitely like it's a huge uh you know byproduct is just you know, I feel so much more confident on ELK. But one thing I do for ELK very specifically, and

I'm sure it helps me on Dear too. But one thing for sure, as you know, on ELK, like you never hardly ever get to shoot in a rhythm. You know, when you're out practicing on the range, like you draw back, you know, you you hold about the same amount of time, like everything's like in rhythm, and you kind of have a shot sequence you go through um and that almost

almost always gets blown up on ELK. I mean a lot of times you end up, you know, having to draw and then having to hold for a very long time because you see that bowl coming in and you draw when you have cover, and then you know he might stop and pause when you don't have a shot, and then he comes a little closer, and then you finally do get your shot or the angles wrong and you gotta wait, you might have to step over to the side. UM. So so much of that your your

normal sequence goes out the window. And UH. Not only do I like to practice that, you know, shooting out a sequence or maybe getting to full draw and taking a couple of steps you know, one way or the other. Um. One thing I really like to do is end my shooting sessions with uh. And I like to record all this and document it so that I can see that the growth. But I'll I'll after my shooting sessions over

with before I hang my bow up. You know, I was going to garage, and I'll get my iPhone out and I get the you know the timer stop watch out my iPhone and I'll just you know, hit start and I'll draw back my bow and I'll hold it as long as I possibly can, and then when I let down, I'll stop it and I just write write

that number down on my white board. UM. And then I also usually write down like how many how much with the poundage is on that set up, and what the you know percentage of let off is, just so I have that as a reference point then and then after I do that, um, I will Uh. I have this like rubber band that's made specifically for archers. I think a company called like m D fifty gear. I think it's the name of the company that makes them. But they make this rubber band that's got a handle

on both ends and uh, I can't remember. They have a couple different poundages, but I have the heaviest one. And then I also used the time around my phone and I'll set it to like seconds, and it'll start time, and I'll draw that back and I'll hold it at full draw for forty five seconds until my phone beeps at me, and then I'll let down and uh. And I'll do that three times, and I kind of build that up, you know. I probably I start out like thirty five seconds, and then I end up as I

build my strength seconds hold. I'm constantly just trying to get to where it's like almost seems impossible for me to hold that last one back. Um. And I really like you can see it when you when I'm recording it on my white board, you know, from when I start that, you know, And I don't like start that like right away when you know and I shoot pretty much year round, whether it's you know, in my in my shop in the wintertime at twenty yards, I shoot

you around. But I don't do this routine y're around. I usually start this like in June, um and then ramp it up to hunting season. But you can just see that growth. I mean, the the amount of hold time just increases substantially, and I can feel it when I'm shooting, you know so, And I feel like that's just a really huge asset when it comes to hunting elk in particular. I mean any hunting that's going to

be an asset, but l cunting in particular. Um, just being able to increase that amount of time that you could comfortably hold your bow back and still execute a shot. I just feel like that's invaluable because I don't I know, you've been there over the years as many times I where it's like you've held so long you're not even sure how your pen is like wiggling all over the even ten yards um, And that's just it's just you know, it gives me a ton of confidence. Yeah, I'm I'm

completely on board with you. There. You used to there was a day back when I thought I needed to shoot an eighty pound bow, and then I realized that the longer I can hold with a seventy pound bow was way more important than you know, getting an extra answer. Penetration and one thing I found especially when calling elk um there, you know, probably seven eight years ago, I was getting you know, and before that I was getting caught drawing a lot on on collins as bulls came in,

I would wait too long. And so then as of late, I've started drawing a lot earlier, which is giving me a lot better chances. But just like you had mentioned, I'm now um holding my bow for you know, upwards of a minute a minute and a half um. One particular scenario two thousand sixteen in Idaho, we called a bull in and really is timber, and I had seen him come over the rise drew and I think I held to like to sixteen um. He finally had to let and finally had to let down the bulls at

twenty five yards. I'm like, I can't even make a shot on this thing, Like I have no more control over holding this where it needs to be. Thankfully he went out the thirty five and I had just that little five second rest had given me enough to get drawn and um killed the bull. But yeah, hold holding your bow um. You know, I don't I haven't subscribed to the tips and tactics of like you know, once your cams rolled over, like holding it against your leg

or any of that. I usually typically just stay focused and on the animal, um because then if you're holding it on your leg, you still have to come up, you know, to your peep and do execute. So I I don't know what that buy some people when they roll the cam over on their their leg. But yeah, drawing early is is way more beneficial. But then, as you had mentioned, everything you're practicing to hold longer is you're gonna have to You're gonna have to be comfortable

holding for that long. Yeah. I would. It would freak me out to try to hold my cam back anyway. Just I would be so afraid that I would derail the string off of the cam just because you know how there's really not a lot of torque at full drop, just because of the leadoff, Like it would be super easy for something to go wrong and that uh, that that string to come right out of the track. But I mean, I'm sure some people must have perfected it,

but I would be scared to do that. So yeah, just trying to increate my holding straight is a is the route that I go. But another thing I guess I like to do um with that rubber band. And this doesn't have to do with holding strength, but it does have to do with um, you know, just feeling good. Is I was for a long time, I was um you know, and I still I shoot a ton um and I was ended up with a lot of neck

pain and like in back pain and stuff. So I kept going to chiropractor and he's like, man, you know, he finally figured. He's like, you're you know, you're you're like lopsided, You're you're drawing, You're using all these muscles on one one party, you know, one side of your body and not the other. He's like, you need to draw your bow back backwards. And I'm like, well, you can't draw the cables earned the way to draw your

compound you know, back. So for a while I was like stringing up my recurve just so that I could drop back left handed, just to try to balance things out. And that's what that's part of my routine now. And that rubber band makes it really easy to where when I'm doing that, when I'm resting in between my forty second holds that ever band, I draw back, reverse and

just try to exercise those muscles balance things out. Um, and that in combination with daily stretching has really helped where you know, it's like I don't have to go to chiropractor, you know, hardly at all anymore. And I do attribute it to uh, to that at least in part. Yeah, that's that's great, great information for everybody. And you know, getting to see you know, good archers like yourself, you know, getting to shoot around and Brian Barney and some of

these guys that are just you know amazing. What that you guys make me want to be a better archer, you know, because I've always just been like, ah, six and you know Elk's got a twelve by twelve killzone. I get it within six inches. We're well within the margin of air. But you know, watching watching some of you guys pound tight groups at long distances, you know, preparing for what you had said, the tougher target in a meal deear um has made me want to to

get better at at archery. So no great points there on on executing the shot and how you prepare you for the for for when the shot comes around. In closing, here, Nate, if you could leave everybody with one kind of golden nugget, um to become a better l hunter or something, you know, maybe people aren't thinking about what would it be, Um, I guess it would really just uh, to be adaptive, you know, It's something that um, you know, I'm really trying to get better at myself, and I do think

that it's really helped me. I know for sure, it's hurt me over the years going into hunts with tunnel vision like here, here's what I'm this is my game plan, this is what I'm gonna I'm gonna stick to that. And you know I've eate tags over the years just being hardheaded. Um, and I feel like just being adaptive,

you know. And you know, regardless of what method hunting style you're more skilled at or you just prefer, you know, just don't get tunnel vision, you know, don't just just think, hey, I'm only gonna try calling or only spotting stock or only sitting over you know, over water, over wallows like, you know, just to be more opportunistic to try to just read quickly, you know, situations quickly, and adapt um you know, and don't be afraid to try new things

and uh you know, and just you know, and that kind of ties in with uh you know, like you were talking about earlier, like how long to stay in an area moved, Like don't be afraid to uh to keep moving, like if you're not finding elk or you're being frustrated, like keep moving and like all that stuff. Just being being adaptive, opportunistic, you know, just rolling with the punches and having you know, really good backup plans

ready to go. Like I just never ever go into a hunt with one area, just because even if it looks perfect, like some little hell hole that nobody else is gonna want to go to, like today's day and age, like there's gonna be somebody else there more than likely. Like I always have went into hunts with backup plans. But you know now I feel like in today's day and age, like you know, having planned A B and

C is probably not enough. Like I like to have a pretty good plan, you know, for for multiple areas, just so that if things aren't happening, like I'm not gonna try to grind you know, and be frustrated in one area too long for sure. Yeah. We always use the analogy um of you know, have all the tools in your toolbox. You know, you a carpenter would never show up to build your house with a with a crescent ranch and the Philip screw driver. You know, he's

got a specific tool for everything that he does. And us as el hunters, you know, be be armed with as many tools, have your toolbox completely loaded up, and then know how to use you know, at least use most of them. UM is going to make your job a lot easier. So we really appreciate having you on here. Nate, can you let anybody know, um, you know you're not all over social media, but you know, can you let people know about Western Hunter, um where they can find you,

you know, where you're airing any of that sort of stuff. Um. Yeah, so no, I'm not on social media. I'm one of those weirdos. But uh, and I guess right now, I'm not even totally sure what I think. I heard that the Western Hunter uh Instagram page got shut down by like because they thought it was you know, to uh you know, like anti hunting, anti hunters, you know, didn't like it or something, But I think we've got Western Hunter Magazine still has a page and that's kind of

where they're sharing some of their their stuff. So you know Western Hunter Magazine on Instagram, I believe is the place. And then um, yeah, then Western Hunter. Uh, we're getting ready to air our tenth season on the Sportsman's Channel

beginning the last week in June. UM, so the season ten, the new episodes will be airing their beginning then, and then all of our past seasons are avail double on the UM the Western Hunter website, UM for people that get a super subscription to the magazine to get access to all of our past seasons. You know, there's like, you know, well over a hundred episodes. They're all all the previous nine seasons. And then those seasons are also on the Sportsman's Channel digital platform as well on the

m OTV app. I think it's uh my Outdoor tv UM and they have an app and all of our past seasons are on there as well. Perfect well, I really appreciate it. Nate. You know, one of the few guys I've you know, looked up to as an elk hunter and always you know, like the way you did it. Like like how humble you were and um you consistently get it done year after years. So thanks for joining us and good luck this fall that was honored to be on here a share you ask me, Thank you m hm