Ep. 113: When the Elk ARE Bugling

on Cutting the Distance podcast. I doubt this Elk Month and I've been trying to divulge all my elk hunting, bugling, archery skills knowledge to you. So we've talked about a lot of scenarios that come up in the elk woods, But what about that scenario when it's bugle city, when things are going great, maybe it's peak rut. The elk are super active. You go, well, that's that's awesome, that's what we want, and that is very, very very true. But there are a few problems that you run into

when the elk are going crazy. When those bulls come into heat, there's a lot of cows around, there's a lot of commotion, and it can be very difficult to call a bowl to your location. So what we're gonna do is we're gonna talk about this week how to make those right moves when things are going off. How do you stalk in the herd past other elk, when do you know that you're calling is not going to call in a bowl? And what moves can you make when there is a hot cow round and you're trying

to call a bull out of that herd. But before we do that, I want to share the story of a recent hunt that I just took with my trad bow and had Bugle City all around me. So this past weekend, I was out chasing elk and I had just the weekend to hunt because I had a lot of work things that I had to get done. And so I went out and I'm like thinking of myself, Man, it's gonna be busy this, you know, just all the things that you think I got one day. And then

I decided to bring my trade bow. I don't know here, here's I like to I like to mix it up. I kind of see myself as just somebody that loves to hunt. I love to hunt with everything, whether it's a recurve, longbow, compound bow, shotgun, rifle. Like I just if there's an open season, I like to do it. And I just had taken a really big bowl with my compound bow, so I'm like, man, I definitely know where I'm at now. I'm not gonna not gonna best

that bowl probably ever. But I thought, well, if I bring my trad bow, then I can increase my success by learning my standards and still feel really good about myself. And uh, and I didn't think. I was like, I probably I'm not gonna even run into much. So I get up to my spot and bugle in the kind of the early morning light. Don't hear anything. Go over the other side and bugle, and sure enough I hear

a view away like way back there. I'm like, okay, So I start glassing and I pick out a herd up at the top of this mountain, kind of in this little burn. I'm like, sweet, So I gather up my stuff and I'm just like, I'm gonna. I know that they're gonna they're gonna move out of there pretty quick, so I wanted to get there as fast as possible, so I'm I'm hustling there. I don't know, They're probably two miles or more away, maybe a couple of thousand

feet elevation, game like they were up there. Ways where I was at, there was no snow. Where they were at was pretty much borderline snowpack, just from the night before. So I start hustling up there, and as I'm making my way up there, the hill kind of blocks any sound that I would be hearing, any bugles, and I'm going, I'm like, all right, this is I'm hoping they're still up there. And I heard one beagle and like, sweet, okay,

they're They're still in here. And then all of a sudden, off on my right side, as I'm going up the canyon, the wolves start howling, and I'm thinking, this sucks, man, like these what's the deal? The elker death frombly gonna shut up? It's not going to be good right now. And so the wolves are howling maybe four hundred yards on the ridge on my other side. The elk are probably three yards above me, maybe four and I'm just

like smack in the middle. All right. So I get up to the point where I can kind of see and I pop over bugle and I get a response back, and it kind of actually surprised me because I thought, well, they're gonna quiet down with these wolves going off, And so the bull bugles back and he's up a little bit in the timber morning. There's a bunch of cows still in the burn. So I watched him, and I think this just I know for a fact, I call it a little bit trying to draw something down, But

it just wasn't that scenario. I need the scenario where I'm in tighter, because this bull has got a lot of cows and they're probably I'm hoping there's other bulls around, but at this point only one was bugling. So I go, I start, I work around the mountain. I get up and I'm just at this point nearly jogging, trying to catch up, trying to cut them off at the top where I know once they get into that himber, then

I can get closer. I have a little bit more of an advantage than being in that wide open and so I get in and make a sound a bugle, and bull bugles once I get up in that timber, like in there like all right, sweet, And this is one of this is a scenario that happens, like when bulls are are in a herd and there's maybe a hot cow or whatever. It's like running just bulls. Now there's multiple bulls bugling, and they're just like moving with the herd. The herd is moving and I'm moving with them.

So I keep going and getting set up and trying to self film it. Which so it's like, here's here, let's do some difficult stuff. I'm gonna go l hunting. Cool, that's behind this one challenge. And then I'm gonna take a traditional though. Cool, that's another one. And now I'm just gonna self film it. And like I'm a glutton for punishment. What can I say? But I enjoy it. It It was like I'm out here, I'm having a good dime.

This is what I like to do. So we So I go around the mountain and I'm getting into the elk. It's one of those things where it's like I'm a hundred yards I'm screaming, bulls are screaming, three or four bulls are firing off. There's cows moving around, and the bulls are pushing and doing their thing, and but nothing's

coming into me. And generally when you get into a herd like this, oftentimes I've had good success, like making a lot of commotion and then just a satellite type bull kind of funneling through and checking things out, like, oh, I wasn't part of the party, that's what's going on over here, and getting a shot. I've killed many elk that way, but on this particular day, it's like all the every bull I've seen is a pretty mature bull,

like a nice six by six. I saw some six by seven's, just like some of the best bulls I've ever seen in the area. I'm thinking, what the heck is going on here? And so at one point I'm a hundred and fift yards away and there's four bulls together, all picked a little tree and they're all raking their antlers for like five minutes. Okay, So finally a couple of all the cows in between me and them moved off,

and there's one still raking. I'm like, I'm just gonna rush in there and get him, and uh so I do. I do that, and I go and I start closing in. I'm probably forty five yards he's raking on the other side of the tree. I've left my camera behind on this point. I actually had a go pro and I just have a like a hate relationship with go pros because every time I want them to work, they don't. So I was like recording with that and realized it

wasn't even recording, which it would have been cool. I get in on that bull and and then he starts to walk off, so I call, and another bull starts to circle within range thirty five yards thirty yards closing, and I'm like, oh, perfect, I'm gonna this is, this is done. And yet every time the bull stops, he stops with his vitals behind a tree, walks, stops vitals behind a tree, and like circles to try to get

my wind. But by this point, the other bulls are now pushing the cows off, moving and I'm like, oh my gosh, man, this is like how many encounters do you get? Like just if I had a compound bull, I would have shot the bull that was raking it fifty yards when I had an opportunity, and probably would have shot this other bull while he was moving because I have been able to. But so I'm like, all right, so I just keep following him and there now they're

in this like big open basin. I getting in the trees. I've got cows in front of me, maybe twenty yards. I'm bugling. Bulls are bugling all over. I'm like, I'm probably fifteen minutes away from killing a bull. And then I'm like, all of a sudden, they start fundling past maybe fifty yards. I'm like, not running, but running in a way. It's like, Okay, they're just chasing a hot cow or nope, they're spooked, but they're coming towards me,

Like what the hell is going on here? And just the whole herd hundreds and something, elk, lots of bulls. Just I'm like, I was so close to just killing a bull. I mean, they were working. At some point, a bull would have walked within you know, record range, and I hear voices, and I'm like, what the heck, Like this just sounds like it's like I'm thinking, now I've definitely heard that, because no hunter would just like be up wind of elk and then just like yelling

and laughing and having a jolly good time. I mean, I was having a good time, but not like that. And I'm like, so then all of a sudden, I see like some people and I started glassing um up and I realized they were just like backpacking, just like in a random It wasn't this is not like a backpacking spot, like what are these people doing camping out here?

Just and I think they heard the commotion of the elk and I can hear him be like, well what's that and just had no probably never seen an elk before, and here all this like crazy noise and can't figure out what's going on. And of course the wind is blowing straight down from them to the elk, and the fact that they were just like yelling like, oh my gosh, that's weird, what's going on? And the elk decided to

run off. So now I'm like, okay, that sucks. Um, that's what happens on a weekends sometimes, you know, you just run into people. Everybody's I mean, it's cool to see people enjoying the outdoors, so hey whatever. So they'll run down the mountain and now I'm like, all right, well that's over. But I'm gonna you know, they were still bugling and doing their things, so I decided just kind of go in the direction that they were going, not knowing if I could get them to pick back

up again. I get about halfway down, I find cut tracks or I can see some serious health move through here and just start following it. And then it's about mid morning at this point, and then I get like this whiff of elk smell. All right, we're in the zone bugle. Nothing moved down. Get the smell again. I'm like, it's stronger now, bugle and one bugle is like right below, maybe forty five yards, So creep in. I've got two six points down there. They're bugling, other bulls bugling down

the thing. I mean, it's just a bugle city. And so I just like I get into position. Bull walks about I don't even know thirty something yards probably maybe closer, and just too much thick stuff. No shot. It's like dang it. And then they move off and now it's the same thing chase again. So now I started moving in. I'm creeping in, bugling, and I've got bulls down there.

I've got probably a hundred cows to deal with, and I start just like pinpointing a bugle moving toward it as they're kind of doing their things, shuffling around, moving around. So um it's so at one point I end up having to crawl past about ten cows within thirty forty yards. The winds good, though, so I just keep crawling past, get around him, then moving again, got a bull raking a tree for about five minutes, cows in between me

and him. Crawl pass those cows, get two about forty five to sixty yards about sixty and then he moves off and just no shots for me. I was like, man if I in my compound boat today, been done deal. But and that was the herd bull. Actually that was the biggest bull that I had seen. So then they all move off reposition again. Now I would say, it's like for a time stamp. It's like two pm. These these elk have been bugling all day long. This is

as good as it gets. And and so by the end of the day I had had ten opportunities, like I would say, had ten bulls within normal bow range. Um, I just didn't have a shot. But in all six points are better. So it's just like an incredible day. So later on that day they started funneling out into this like the small pines back into the burn. And at this point I'm like, all right, I just got like I just gotta go. There's so many cows and

I'm thinking, how do I get past them? But I've had similar scenarios where It's like, you know, if I was timid, and just like, Okay, I can't get to that bowl because these cows, I don't want to blow them out, but like they're pretty, they're pretty fired up, and they were all kind of getting shuffled around anyway. So I knew if one cow saw me, it's not a big deal, like she would run and I would

just bugle. So I go into the little pines with the elk, and I'm just like there's elk over here, cows calling and I'm just screaming, bugling, and every time, like there would be a cow yards away she'd see me. I just screamed with the bugle and I'm moving through the trees like I'm an elk, and I'm moving past cows to get to where these bulls are running around get out. And here comes the herd bull a bugle, and I move in. I see his antler tips in the trees, and I'm just like getting in the herd

like the elk. I felt like I was just another elk in the herd, screaming, moving past the elk, shuffling elk around. It's all good. Had that big bull walkout fifty yards stand their broadside, and I'm like, that's just too far for the bow that I've got um and I figured I'd just get another shot, and so he moves off, pushes the cows, and then they all end up pushing out into this big open and it's like, okay,

kind of game over from that point. But it was one of the most incredible days chasing elk with a bone in hand for me and one thing that I thought was pretty cool. And I was really glad that I ended up bringing that bow that day because if I had my compound bow, I probably would have shot

a bull first thing in the morning. It would have been stoked, but I wouldn't have had that experience of interacting with this elk in that way where it's like I'm just another bull in the herd, just running things around and just getting in there and moving past elk and really just like getting in that entire experience of bringing in so many different bulls and just having those

those really close opportunities. But if I might have the bow, I would have killed the bull for sure, but I also would not have had that experience that I had, and I think they will probably go down is one of the coolest days elk hunting that I can remember, especially without letting an arrow go. While it might seem like bulls are going crazy, that's the best thing. That's

the best case scenario for rail hunting. And it definitely is like it's it's very exciting, but it can also be difficult to kind of know how to act if

you haven't encountered a lot of those scenarios. And there's the reason because a couple of the things that happened when it's bugle city, when there's bulls moving cows around, there's probably a lot of eyes, there's a lot of commotion, there's a lot of things going on, and those elk are actually probably harder to call in when that's going on because they're they're distracted by whatever hot cow they're chasing.

So there's probably a couple of cows and that heard that are really garnering the attention of the bulls, and you think, oh, well, I can just use my calls and draw the bull, and sometimes that does work, and there's other times where I mean, middle of the day, I thought to myself, look, these bulls are very callable, they're very they were very responsive, but they aren't really

like coming in to check things out. They've got their own game going on over here, and I either need to get in really really tight and play that game. If I want to draw a bull in or I'm just gonna be back here a hundred and fifty yards bugling. I need to get within that seventy to eighty yards or closer if I really want to draw these bulls in.

And because I was, you know, using a traditional bull and I want to I want to get them within that thirty yards generally, Um, you know, I had to keep committing to to getting closer, to getting closer, and by doing that was seeing their reactions and in that way getting a lot of good responses. So one thing that you need to kind of understand is what you can get away with in a herd of elk. And

this goes for rifle hunters, bow hunters, whatever. I think that so many times people get kind of timid when it comes to moving around elk. And one of the things that's made me very very successful is spending a lot of time with elk and knowing how to move around them. You can move past elk in a herd if and you think like, well, you're gonna get winded this, that and the other thing. You you might there are those times like when that winds blowing and they aren't

all super active. Yeah, they're on edge, they're they're looking out, But when there's things going on and the wind is good, you can you can get away with a lot of movement and a lot of sound. Because there's a lot going on in that heard they're seeing things moving. I

definitely for sure head elk looking at me. But by using my calls and then just using trees and cover, I was able to just kind of keep that movement in motion, going, getting out of their sight, making a call, and then letting them think, no, that's not that big of a deal. It's not something that's threatening us. It's just probably another elk. Because in those herds there's so

many moving parts. You need to realize that when you get into a herd of elk, you can become another one of those moving parts if you do it right. So the first thing is you got to look out for their eyes. You got to pay a lot of attention, but you can use the available cover to block their eyes. Even one tree blocking the eyes of that cow, that's

century that's looking your way. Can be enough to get you in a position to get out of sight to remove Now, the second thing that I do is I is I use calls to kind of distract their make them think that what they're seeing is the movement of an elk. So if I get in a cow picks me off, I'll only either let off cow sound or a bugle, and it's something that's like okay, kind of puts them at ease, especially if they're on edge and

thinking about running. I'll put them at ease with the call, and then I'll get out of sight and then out of sight, out of mind. I like to think of elk. If you've seen Jurassic Park, elk are the t rex of the hunting like animal kingdom. If you don't move, they don't see you. And that's one thing that really works well, is like even if you're calling, I've had bulls come in in the open, but if you don't move, they don't see you when they've got their brains all

all fired up. So if you if you're out of sight, out of mind, you can kind of get into a position where you can then move around that cow and not worry about spooking her out or if she does start to bust let out of you gole let out a sound. Where the other elk in the herd that don't know why that one cow is running, I think, oh, maybe a bull is chasing, or maybe something's up. As long as it's not a really important elk to the herd that's like, oh, it's the lead cow, or maybe

that bull that's kind of pushing them all around. As long as you don't bust those ones out, you can generally get away with a lot. So I kind of have this philosophy when I'm getting into a herd of bell because you just can't make an omelet without breaking a few eggs. You're gonna have to get in tight. You're gonna have to make your moves, and if you sit back to timid, then you're probably gonna lose your opportunity. Now, there are those times where it's like, Okay, we've got

to be patient here. We aren't going to be able to get through the herd. Uh. The scenario is not right. The wind is not good, the thermals aren't good. They're bedded and alert and kind of on edge. But if they're runted up and running around and things are going crazy, You can get away with a lot, And the next thing is understanding or knowing whether you're going to call

the bull in that you're calling to or not. And here's how you can kind of tell is when that bull is interacting, is he just like kind of right on one cow and right on one certain cow, or is he kind of coming off and making those challenges saying like oh, seeing what what else is going on?

And whether the other elk in the herd are in this frenzy where the elk herds moving and they're running around and checking things out, or are they all kind of in this nucleus of the elk herd and this is where they are and nothing seems to be budging from that. So there's times where I'll get into a herd and they're bugling and it's crazy, and I'll just sit sit back, I'll do my view all get crazy as well, and hopes that the elk on the fringes will kind of come in and check things out, and

that works really well. That's that's how I kill a lot of elk in these calling scenarios. But when you want to kill that one big bull or that herd bull, or maybe all those elk or just kind of together and you can't really draw them away. Then you can kind of understand, Okay, there's probably a hot cow in there, and it's gonna be really hard for me to make these elk think that I'm whatever. I'll throw out cowestra sounds, but most of time that doesn't work because it's like

they've got there right on the honey. They don't need to go look for something else. I'll throw out those challenge bugles and those bugles, but there it's like, I'm they're so focused, they're so moving, they're just constantly doing their thing, that it's going to be very difficult to call them away. In those scenarios, I found that the only way to call them way is to get so close that they have to respond, and that might be

within that hundred yard there. So if you're if you're sitting back at two yards, you aren't gonna call a ball off that. That's just how it's. That's just how it is. But if you move in and you get a hundred or sub one hundred sixty yards fifty yards, you think, well, fifty yards I could shoot, But in timber and in thick stuff, you almost need them in your lap. So I try to get in as tight as possible and then I make those calls, and that's how I I draw in most of the bulls that

end up coming into a setup. There are those herribles, those mature bulls or bulls that are very distracted and preoccupied by a cow that I'm not going to be able to call them off of. So by getting in tight and then using my calls, so I use a combination of stalking and calling. When the elk are kind of whipped up in this frenzy, I like to generally fire off of those bugles, and then a couple of tactics that I like to use cutting the bulls off.

They don't like that, I'll cut them off and while they're bugling, and then I'll try to add some more aggressive sounds. I'll add those chuckles in there. Another sound that I really make a lot is that glunking where it's almost just like if you each your hand and hit the back of your tube. Is a kind of sound you'll notice when you're in a herd and there's some hot cows in there. The bulls will be cruising

around making that noise and it's almost like there. It's a way that they're talking to those cows, and it can also be a way that really pisces off bulls that think they're in charge. Another sound that I make that's not even a bugle is through the bugle to huffing and breathing really heavy. Almost think of it like a snort wheeze with a white tailer, Like I just get through the tube and they don't like that. And it's like when you're in close enough that helps bring

that bull in. That extra distance is really good too if you've got two callers, because you can get one guy set up a little bit further. You both get in pretty tight, and then you make those noises and oftentimes you can get those bulls to kind of come in and check it out. Um. And that's another way that I've had a lot of success calling in some of the bigger bulls and heard the herd bulls. People talk about calling in the herd bull and that's a

very difficult thing to do. But if you get in tight, if you make the right sounds, and you move past a lot of the elk that you aren't interested in without blowing him out, but by being aggressive enough to be able to get into the herd you can, you have a lot better chance of actually calling that herd bull to where you can get a shot. I don't know about you, but I really can't believe September has

already coming gone. I mean, I feel like I spend more time thinking about this time here than anything, and uh and then it just flies by. But I hope that some of those tips and tactics helped you. I know, I really appreciate all the messages I got, I'd say this year more than any I've had people reach out with photos and videos even and just saying like this tactic killed this bull for me, And that, to me

is why I love doing this podcast. Um that's actually the only reason I like doing this podcast, because it's it's about, you know, helping people be more successful in the time that they get to go out there and enjoy the hunt. And so I want to help you guys be more successful in one of the ways that I like to do that and build these podcasts out to know, what's going to make you more successful is by the question answers and the interaction that I get from you guys. So we'll be doing a Q and

A coming up. It can be about l hunting, it can be about anything. And then also throughout your ideas of things that you guys are interested in hearing in the future because I like to there's there's things I've got ideas on. Um, we're coming into the beginning of October. I know a lot of a lot of general deer seasons that time of year, and that honestly, October deer hunting meal deer hunting is probably the hardest thing you can do. Um, It's one of the hardest hunts out

out west in my opinion. It's a hard time of year to hunt them. But there are a few tips and tactics that I've used to be successful that time of year. Um. But there's I mean, there's a lot of different things going on, So feel free to reach out the best ways on Instagram at Remy Warren and you can go if you actually did like a little story of this this day that I just talked about, so I'll actually try to go put that on my

profile and save it. So if you want to see a little bit of footage of the day, kind of build it out in a visual way. Here you hear the story. It's so hard to like, you know, actually tell the whole story in like videos you're going and it's also hard to like show the whole story as you're talking about it on a podcast, so combination that you can kind of help paint a good picture. But I thought it might be fun to to throw that out there. As always, you know, sending your questions. I

appreciate you guys. Also the great comments on the podcast wherever you listen, comments, feedback rating, good ratings, those are great, always great, So I appreciate you all. Until next week, live it up in Bogle City. Cat you guys later,