What To Do If You're Being Breadcrumbed, with Vasavi Kumar

Therapist and coach , electric emcee , vibrant speaker and voiceover actor , V vasavi is the author of the life-changing book Say it Out Loud using the power of your voice to listen to your deepest thoughts and courageously pursue your dreams . She's also the host of the podcast Say it Out Loud with Vasavi Kumar . Welcome to the show . Welcome , Gretta .

Thank you for having me . I'm thrilled , I'm really thrilled . Before we dive into all the things I want to discuss today , I just want to define the word breadcrumbing and kind of share a little bit about what it is , because I don't know if everybody knows what this is and I don't want to assume . Okay .

So breadcrumbing typically refers to romantic relationships and dating , but it can happen in friendships , it can happen in family , business relationships , and I'll read a quote from Psychology Today Breadcrumbing is a term for stringing someone along with small nuggets of communication , but never fully committing to a relationship .

Today , those crumbs of communication tend to occur online . The person may respond to an Instagram story , like a Facebook photo , or text a funny meme . They may text back and forth PR periodically , but never seem to agree to plans in person . This connection stalls , unable to evolve into a fulfilling relationship . End quote .

So this is clearly really confusing , extremely frustrating for anyone who's going through this . So , because people have hope that they're in a relationship and that it's gonna go somewhere , that they're in a relationship and that it's going to go somewhere , but they're unclear because they're not exactly sure what's happening .

And breadcrumbing can lead to ghosting , because somebody just trails off slowly until one day they just stop responding and they cut off all communication . And I have been there . It is painful , yeah .

So , basavi , I've read your book , I love it , and I want to tell you thank you because it really helped inspire me to say something out loud that I never really wanted to ever admit on this podcast . I have to admit that I did ghost a former friend and listeners .

You can hear about that on my episode called Navigating Ghosting and Trauma Insights on Healing with Dr . Frank Anderson and I'll link that in the show notes . It was really hard for me to share that , but it did . It was a relief .

I'm proud of you for saying it , you know , because I know the impact that it has when we actually say the thing that we've been swallowing for so long .

When I say say it out loud , it's not about saying everything out loud , it's about saying the most intentional thing that you can say regarding that situation , and I think it has such an impact on relationships , but specifically romantic relationships , because think about how much we harbor in our relationships that we're not saying it out loud , that we're not saying

it out loud and that resentment builds and it builds and it builds . And if you look at so many divorces and separations and people breaking up with one another , you can often find that there's just a lot of built up resentment . There's just a lot of things that people aren't having haven't said to one another .

So saying it out loud is really about being the most authentic , honest and intentional version of yourself and the things that you want to say , not in a way to hurt somebody else , but in a way to free yourself , honor your dignity , but also honor the dignity of the other person , and I think it allows us to really create a space for more honest dialogue .

And who doesn't want that in their romantic relationships ?

So let's start with the chase . So in the past , I chased emotionally unavailable people who were distant , inconsistent and breadcrumbing me and yeah , right it's so relatable . I think a lot of people who are listening are going to be like yep , me too , these breadcrumber people . They're hard to get . It made me want them more .

And I've seen a lot of dating coaches say like , match the energy of the person who's breadcrumbing you , or just retreat and step away from the breadcrumber . So I'm just curious to hear what your advice is for anyone who's being breadcrumbed , right ?

So I love that advice and I think if you are being met with inconsistent , distant , sporadic communication , that is not a green light for you to do more and to say more and to chase and to run after that person . It is really .

It's a red flag and it's also an opportunity for you to just be like hold on , I'm not being met in the same way that I am meeting this person . I need to now conserve my energy so I am not going to keep putting myself in this situation where I keep giving and giving and giving , speaking and speaking and speaking and I'm not getting that

back . So I love that advice that I would say definitely match the energy of that person and slowly fade away , because what you're going to find is usually with the breadcrumber , and this is not in all situations . The minute you start to do that , they start to come back around .

But you don't want someone that's just going to come back around the minute you back up . You want someone who's consistently there and who is stable , not someone who's like , oh , she's running , or he or she or they are , you know , are moving away from me , now I want to go chase after them . This is not a game .

You know are moving away from me , now I want to go chase after them . This is not a game . We are not on the playground right . This is not . This is not fun and games here . This is people . These are people's lives , these are people's hearts that we're talking about here .

So I think , if you really want to preserve your sanity , you would go ahead and match the energy of the person who is breadcrumbing you .

Why are you accepting crumbs when you deserve the whole loaf of bread ?

You should know when to walk away , and for me , I really had to garner some self-respect . I did not respect myself enough in those relationships and in those situationships that I was in where I would be chasing after somebody who was noncommittal , distant and breadcrumbing me .

I had to really look at myself in the mirror and ask myself do I respect my own behavior ? And I didn't . I didn't like who I was , and if you don't like who you're becoming , that is a clear sign for you to step away .

So what I would say is use your voice , talk to your friends , talk to your therapist , talk to somebody who is , who has your back , but , most importantly , have a real honest conversation with yourself and really start to ask yourself is this a type of interaction that I want to have ? Why am I putting up with this ?

Like , start to ask yourself those hard questions because , although those questions are hard and no one really wants to get down to the truth of it , because something may need to change , you may need to be the one to change , to walk away , to put down this need to constantly get this attention from this person and chasing after this person .

We can use our voice to bring us back home to ourselves .

know . I wish you the best . Is that ? Is that enough for a breadcrumber ?

So I love what you just said . You can easily say something like hey , I appreciate what we've gone through so far , but the way that we're communicating isn't working for me anymore . I wish you all the best .

I think we have very different communication styles and , listen , you can be with someone who has a different communication style , but they need to be willing to meet you in the middle . It can't be you doing everything , yeah . So I love that short , sweet text that you can just send somebody and don't be surprised if you don't get anything back .

You may just get a little thumbs up on that . You may , or you may or you may have them now , all of a sudden , be wildly interested in you . Well , like I said , you don't necessarily want to be with someone who wants you only when you don't want them . That , once again , this is not a game .

It's not I and I understand , with masculine and feminine , there is a dance , there's polarity . We want to have that polarity in relationships . But this just feels very toxic . It feels like somebody who , like you , know when kids get bored of toys , kids will play with the toy . Then they get bored of that toy .

That's what it feels like it's like , or they'll want that toy back if they see somebody else playing with that toy . It's like I don't want to have this toy , but I don't want anyone else to have it either . Right , you don't want to be treated like some toy .

So this is really where that self-respect piece comes in , and this is where you can really send a very short , succinct message as to why this is not working for you anymore . You don't even have to give a reason why you can clearly say this is not working for me anymore and I wish you all the best .

Things don't need to end in a very tragic , dramatic way . You get to be mature in the relationship and say exactly how you feel , and you get to keep it moving .

You feel like you're trash that's just been put out on the curb , and I know that feeling all too well in my two relationships ago . I was in a relationship with a narcissist . I didn't even know what narcissism was . I didn't even realize that's what was happening . I didn't know what gaslighting was .

I had to learn it the hard way by actually having it be done to me so I can spot that a mile away . I'm sorry that you went through that . Oh , it's okay .

I'm better on the other side because of it , because I think there are so many lessons that can be learned when we're in relationships like that , and the number one lesson that I learned was that I had to love myself more and I had to have more respect for myself and not to chase after people .

Number one not to chase after people , exactly all right , so let's find my next question .

I was positive . I'm a licensed therapist . You don't understand . I'm really good at what I do . I'm really good at helping people . I can help him change . But I realized for me I didn't want to play that role anymore . So it takes time and it takes experience . And it just takes you getting sick and tired of feeling sick and tired . And that's what happened .

It came with time with me . I got sick and tired of being sick and tired of constantly giving myself to this person that was not meeting me halfway or at all . For that , you know , I was just getting breadcrumbs Right , yeah , yeah .

And what can really help is talking about these issues with a therapist , because , regardless of whether you have a clinical mental health issue like depression or anxiety , or if you're just a human who lives in this world and is going through a hard time , therapy can give you the tools to approach your life in a very different way .

After being ghosted , therapy helped me handle challenging emotions and cultivate self-compassion . It was a game changer , and that's why I'm happy to tell you about today's sponsor , betterhelp . Betterhelp connects you with a licensed therapist trained to listen and provide helpful , unbiased advice .

You can visit their site using my link , betterhelpcom slash copingwithghosting , and all you need to do is answer a few questions and BetterHelp will match you to a professional who has years of experience helping people with struggles similar to yours .

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What's your favorite way to drop into your body , honor the feelings and calm your nervous system , especially for like .

This is really just a question that's geared towards somebody who's feeling extraordinarily anxious because they feel that this person that they care about , that they're potentially dating or in a situation with , or whatever the relationship is , they're pulling away . So what can we say to ourselves ?

How can we round down , how can we navigate this intense anxiety that comes with being breadcrumbed ?

My favorite way to get back into my nervous system is twofold I talk to myself out loud and I will tell myself things such as Vasavi , you are safe , you are okay , I love you , I see you , I'm here for you . What do you need from me ? What ? What do you need from me , like , what can I give ?

And this is really the process of me coming coming back home to myself and me giving myself , my inner child , myself at at at whatever age you're at , you know and tending to yourself . The other thing that I love doing and I'm giving very simple suggestions , and that's what works for me is being out in nature .

So if I just step outside of my house and just go for a few walks around the block , I'm fine . And when I talk to myself , listen to some music and just go for a walk , I get myself moving , so that anxious energy doesn't just stay all up in my head . I actually just allow it to move through my body as I'm taking a walk .

And the other thing that I do is I have community in my life . I have friends that I'm very close to . I have trusted a very few trusted people in my life that I go to when things hit the fan and when it when it feels like I absolutely have no control over my nervous system . I'm not emotionally regulated . I have friends that I can turn to .

But let's just say everyone's busy , right , because everyone has their own thing . And let's say you're having a really anxious moment , you can talk to yourself , you can go out for a walk , you can pet your dog or your cat If you have one , I have a golden retriever , so she's wonderful for me . You know you can talk to a friend .

Distract yourself , distract yourself and just try to immerse yourself in something else . For me , creative projects have always helped me putting immersing myself into my work , which I love . I love what I do for a living , so it doesn't ever feel like work for me .

But finding something outside of this person , like not making this person the center of my world , de-centering this person is what I like to say . You got to put yourself in the center of your world , yeah .

You know what I mean ? Yeah , but you don't have to turn out to be like them . But I remember with my last , last ex , the two exes ago , I learned something from him . I learned how little I loved myself , how little I respected myself , and I also learned that it was time for me to put myself . First and foremost , he taught me a lot .

The way he treated me , although it was brutal and heartbreaking cheated on me , betrayed , lied , gaslit me I mean all those things he taught me a lot about myself . That relationship broke me , but it also showed me and gave me this and taught me how to build myself back up .

So breadcrumbers they're obviously not available for like a whole hearted , full effort , all in relationship at this time , and the way that breadcrumbers treat people is about really where they're at , what they're available for . Do you have any suggestions for how people can stop taking breadcrumbing personally and not make it about them or their worth ?

For some reason , you are making this person somehow be the end all be all to your existence and we need to stop idolizing people , stop putting people on a pedestal and just look at them for who they really are , look at their behavior .

It's hard to separate the behavior from the person sometimes , but you got to do that in this case because your heartstrings will pull at you . So I would say , you know , try . That's why I said this is hard , but you got to try to objectively look at this person and their behavior and ask yourself what kind of person does this ? What type of person ?

Breadcrumbs ? What type of does this ? What type of person breadcrumbs ? What type of person ghosts ? What type of person leaves someone just hanging on red for days ? Now here's the other thing , and I think it's hard sometimes , when you're on the other end of breadcrumbing , to admit this . It's not about you .

You have no idea what's going on in the other person's mind , right ? Unless you ask them . And unless they tell you , right , most likely they're not telling you because they're not communicating with you . But we can never assume we know what's going on . This could be a pattern of theirs . It probably is . This is a habit of theirs , probably is .

This is what they do with people . You just happen to be caught in the crossfire and you get to decide if you want to keep putting up with that . You're not the first one and you're definitely not the last one , so try as hard as possible to not take it personally , because you really do never know .

Just like in your other episode that you did about ghosters and trying to see the humanity in them , this person could have a very difficult time expressing themselves . Maybe they're shy , maybe they just feel overwhelmed . There are so many reasons other than you why this person could be breadcrumbing you . Yeah , yeah , that's what .

That's what I would say to give myself some sense of peace and I just let it . It's easier for me to let it go when , when I , when I look at it that way and I just it's easier for me to let it go .

But I love what you said , like , just don't make an assumption about like their story . Just just know that you're the most important thing . How do you want to be treated ? Make this about you , take them off that pedestal . And another thing is that being ghosted , being breadcrumbed , it's .

You are still whole and worthy and complete and important , whether you're with that breadcrumber , whether you're with that ghost or not , right , so your worth has nothing to do with this type of situation at all .

The way that I choose to respond says a lot about how I value myself .

You're doing whatever so you can deal with the pain of being breadcrumbed or being ghosted . I know on the podcast you talk about ghosting a lot , but I know we're specifically talking about breadcrumbing but all of it . You know what I mean . You're probably not having fun .

You're probably not out there socializing with your friends and if you are , you're talking about this guy or this girl who's breadcrumbing you . So you got to take back charge of your life and when you wake up in the morning , ask yourself what am I doing to shake things up today ? What am I doing to have fun ?

What am I doing to get my spunk back , my spark back ?

You're waiting for this person who doesn't even know how to use technology , or they're choosing not to , or they're leaving you on read , or they're giving you bread crumbs and noncommittal uh , you know languaging that just it's not fun and I just I , when I look at people like that , I'm like you're not fun , I don't want to be around you anyway .

Like it's so easy for me now , Gretta being on the other side of it If I ever come across someone who is bread crumbing me , and it's , it's very rare , it's extremely rare , cause the minute I notice it , I'm like I'm over it . I'm just like , ah , I'm not into it .

You know what I mean , but the , the , the fun can just be sucked out of our lives when we're dealing with someone like this . So my number one suggestion as hard as it is and you might feel like you just got to act as if is to have more fun in your life . Go on and enjoy your life , because this person is certainly not texting you .

They're not waiting around to find out where you are , who you are , what you're doing . They're living their life . So you got to go live yours and you might as well have a really great time .

Yeah , yeah . I want to go do a bunch of fun things right now . Yes , me too . I have a whole list of things , absolutely .

I want to go , yeah . I think I'm ready to go skydiving again . Last time I went , I had a little bit of an awkward experience with the guy that I was flying off the plane with . He was a little weird . I need to get into that . That was okay .

But I want to have another experience like that and I've been really loving working out of my house lately and this may feel like it's not fun , but it's a lot of fun for me , for me to get really dressed up and go find a like a swanky hotel lobby and cowork out of a hotel lobby .

I want someone who communicates clearly . I want someone that lets me know where I stand with them , not wondering and waiting . You know when you're , when you're in a relationship or a situationship with someone who breadcrumbs you , you never know where you're where you stand with them , breadcrumbs you . You never know where you're where you stand with them .

You don't know what your role is . You're like wait , are we doing this ? Are we not doing this ? So get really clear on what you don't want and then just do the opposite of that . That's what you do want . Oh , I don't want someone who breadcrumbs me . Oh , so what do I want ? I want someone who consistently communicates .

What does consistently communicate looks like ? I want them to communicate with me every day . Great , and don't negate yourself and don't invalidate yourself and don't gaslight yourself for wanting the things that you want .

That's huge , because so often we're very clear on what we don't want and then , when we get to what we do want , we start to question ourselves and we'll be like , oh , that's too much , I'm asking for too much . No , you're not , you're just asking the wrong person . So that is a very simple exercise that you can do .

In my book , the don't want want list , yeah .

It makes you more attractive when you have those boundaries and if someone , if the breadcrumber , doesn't like your boundaries , they're not the right person for you . Exactly , they're not the right person for you . If you withholding or , sorry , if you upholding your boundaries for yourself is best for your mental health .

Whatever your boundaries are , I don't even need to know what they are , but I trust that if you have certain boundaries , that is what's best for you . And if I have a problem with that , that's on me , right ? That's like me , not me not wanting you to have boundaries . Why ? So I can take advantage of you , so I can control you , so I can manipulate you .

You don't want someone like that in your life , right ? No , Right .

I really think this exercise is so valuable to write it down , to say out loud what you want , right , and then to make sure that if you do start dating again , or if you continue to date this breadcrumber , that you look at what you wrote down and you note that , okay , this is what I wrote .

They're unable to meet me at what I need , what I want in a relationship , what I value . It looks like our communication styles are not aligned .

Maybe it's values , maybe it's other things , and then that's where you need to really reconsider if you want to truly stay and I love that you said something along the lines of don't be weak in the knees , honor what you want and stick firm to those desires .

It's very simple actually , but it's not easy to do this because our emotions get in the way .

But if you don't believe that yourself , no one's going to give that to you and you're definitely going to keep going back to emotionally unavailable people If you yourself do not believe that , if you do not fundamentally believe that about yourself . Listen , I know we have our days . We have our days where we question our worth .

We have our days where we question our value . The goal is to never question that ever again . That for me at least , like I don't ever want to question my worth and value ever again . I did that for pretty much the majority of my thirties . I'm not about doing that anymore .

But I would definitely say get very clear on your worth and your value and say that to yourself so you can remind yourself . It's every like , it's everything that everyone else is probably telling you , but you need to say it to yourself .

I didn't know what that was and I will never forget how it made me feel . I could not go to sleep , I could not eat . This person was all I was thinking about . I would keep messaging him , I would call his house , like I was doing all sorts of things , and when I think about that version of myself , I feel so bad for her .

I feel I have so much empathy for her and so much compassion for her . Like girl , you didn't realize that this person was ghosting you and after they came back around , you took him back . I took him back because he gave me a really good sob story . Yeah , and I've done that . Yeah , and I fell for it .

So I think what I really want your listeners to hear and to remember is to forgive themselves . Forgive you for not knowing better , forgive you for being such a good person that you don't even know what ghosting is , because you would never do that to somebody else .

Just remember that , like , remember who you are , remember where you've come from , remember what you've been through and just know your heart . Know your heart so well , like the way you're able to , like , see the , the goodness and other people see that goodness in yourself and protect that vehemently . Do not let anyone mess with your heart ever .

That doesn't mean to close yourself down . I don't want you to walk around with a closed off heart , but have some boundaries and have some self respect . And that's what I wish I would have told myself and what I wish I would have known years ago . And I now know that now and I want to share that with your listeners .

I'd also be so grateful if you could leave a rating , a review , for the show , because your feedback helps spread a message of hope and finally , remember when you're ghosted . You have more time to connect with yourself and people who have stellar communication skills . You deserve the best . You're just a ghost to me .