Lunch with Piper Hudson and now Consumer Talk featuring Wendy Nola.
Well, it is lovely to have Wendy back with us in studio today. And as I mentioned earlier, we are going to be talking about vinegar. You might have heard less to discussing this on the Breakfast Show a couple of days ago, the fact that there has been a vinegar shortage in South Africa that's been having all kinds
of knock on impacts into other product lines. It is a problem that we understand has largely been rectified, but a press release that was put out by one of the local vinegar manufacturers really peaked our interest and Wendy, it sent you down a very tart vinegar rabbit hole of sorts, hasn't it?
It has indeed, But I wanted to we're going to talk about the the visa thing first or at the end, just well in a minute, okay, yeah, okay, but just set out for us what we're going.
Where are we going with the vinegar story?
Okay? Sure? So there's yeah, so much to know. And I spent probably a ridiculously ridiculous amount of time on this. So the difference between the various kinds of vinegar we hear the names that we'ver really given it much thought. I mean, obviously, white wine vinegar is obvious, read wine vinegar, which a lot of the top chefs swear by as a as a staple to deal with, you know, to cut through too much salt or too much fatter, and then what to do what you can do with vinegar
beyond the culinary as well as you know. I ended up being looking at the vinegar mother and what that I've never heard that term, and how you can actually it's the base of making vinegar, and you can create yourself a wonderful mother, yourself with another recipe. It's coming, it's coming, It's coming. And of course all the household things, the stags and everything, which is funny, a sad pepper.
When I started consumer journalism all those years ago in the late nineties on a durban newspaper, this is like a new consumer column, and a lot of readers on that urban newspaper weren't really sure because the paper never had anything like this before what had entailed, and I totally unexpectedly got in undated, and I mean inundated worth queries around how do I remove the stain and that like some kind of you know.
Home math astudio exactly, son.
So there was no Google then, and what I would do is as ask my.
Mom, and the answer was usually vinegar inside.
It often did involve vinegar.
Yes, okay, so we're going to go there and thank you. We've had several people sending through your WhatsApps about how you use vinegar in your home in ways that aren't quite the norm, shall we say?
So?
Obviously we use it when we make salad dressing. You use it if you're making your own pickle onions. But what other applications keep them coming? We are going to reflect them a little bit later on in the show. So please tell us about your hacks, whether it's cleaning and disinfecting or health use. What is the use of vinegar that you swear by in your house? Pop through a WhatsApp to seven two five six seven one five
six seven. But before we get stuck into the sour Wendy, we have a little suite to share with our own.
Yes, I'm sorry I was jumping the gun there, but a few minutes ago, so you remember, well, if you missed last week's show, we heard from Philip Berman about his agonizing way for a visa that would allow him to visit his family in Dublin and particularly his beloved nine year old granddaughter. The two of them have a very very special bond. So he applied in March at the time, well before there was told I think at the time it was nine to twelve weeks at the
time that you needed. Yeah, that's what was the official line. He spent thousands on his trip to Cape Town because he lives in Victoria West and the Northern Cape. He spent thousands to get you via overnighting and George.
And he also spent thousands on his plane ticket because they told him he had to book it.
Remember before he applies exactly and he got a he got a special that's now for him to get the same ticket would be double. So there was such a lot of there is such a lot at stake. So the good news is that he said me yesterday to say his name. We spoke about that Irish government portal that you it is the only means of getting any information and it is in the form of not an update.
Your name is either there, having you successful and getting your visa, or it's not there and It was there on Tuesday when Philip check and I was, you know, what's happening in all these you know, elated celebratory emotives and then he was like, no, but there's another problem now. So there's passports with VFS. I haven't quite established it for it was in Pretoria or here in Cape Town, but he had paid. He paid one thousand rand for
that visa to VFS in March. Here in Cape Town, he paid the Irish government actual visa fee, he paid the VFF VFS processing fee, and he paid a courier fee because given that he lives away out he didn't want to have to make that trip again at the cost of seven thousand rand return or whatever, so he thought they can courier it to me. So he doesn't have his passport in hand, and it's actually quite critical now because we're sitting It's Wednesday. He flies. His flight
is from Joe Book to Dublin on Tuesday. He has to overnight in George because at night a lot long story, so he flies to Georgie overnights he flies, so he leaves his home essentially bottom line, at one o'clock lunchtime is on.
Monday, that's the deadline.
He has got to say, sorry, start the tuesday onesday.
Tuesday, so he needs.
To pretty much Monday, because he, I mean, Tuesday morning is forty late. He needs that. He needs that passport to be delivered to him in his home on Monday. And we now how many business days I don't.
Know weekends, Thursday, Friday and Monday. That's three work three busurs.
So yeah, he whatsapped me to say, I've checked with FDIX. They have not received my passport from VFS. When I applied, he was handled a FedEx tracking number, he says. FedEx tells me that they cannot go and pick up the passport from VFS. They have to wait for VFS to initiate the process and say come and fetch the come
and get it. So I have emailed VFS's outsourced PR agency and all the internal addresses that she used to replied all to say, now, just contact the courier, get this to happen, because I mean, I know Phillip's anxiety levels or through the but I've been holding his hand through this thing and I'm feeling super I haven't got anything at stake. It's just that I'm living I'm living
sort carries through his stress and feeling. I mean, I just can't bear that it's now granted, but he still now has this anxiety over is he actually going to get the passport in hand before he leaves his home at lunchtime on Tuesday.
Well, I hope that when we come to air next week we will be telling you that Philip is on a plane.
We'd better on his way.
We'd better, But we will keep you posting on this one, okay.
So Fenger's cross toes crossed everything you can claip us please for Philip.
That that passport gets there.
There are many others in this situation, and many have missed, as we read last week, have missed out on important trips because it just didn't happen. But Philip's now become our post.
Of yes, okay, So we will let you know the final chapter of that saga when we chat this time next week. For now, though, let's let's move on to the vinegar story and Wendy, I mean, in the course of looking into what is now actually almost a non story because the vinegar shortage is coming to an end, but you found out all kinds of interesting things about the way it's made, and yes, the real thing versus the invitations thing, and.
Why not and fix it up? What's not the normal thing we do? But it sort of happened just the way it happened. So the first thing I found out is that the name means sour wine, which is not anything that I'd ever contemplated. Even if the VI I need anything to do with wine, it never occurred to me. So it is sour wine and the real stuff. I will talk about the imitation stuff just now, and I learn something interesting there as well. Is made via a
two step fermentation process. So the first step is that the sugars are converted to alcohol. The sugars in the in the grape, the wine grape or the apple or cider or whatever the case may be converted to well, then it becomes alcohol. Then a second fermentation converts the alcohol to acetic acid, which is the main component of vinegar. And then different kinds of vinegar are created by using
various base ingredients fruits or grains. I do a lot of Asian cookings always have rice vinegar, and obviously that comes from ice, which then influences the final flavor. So apple cider vinegar is made from fermented apple juice. Red wine vinegar from red wine, and you get the picture of right wine vinegar. So balsamic vinegar is made by crushing. And I never really knew this. I never bothered to find out balsamic vinegar, and it can, I mean it can be huge, a huge price because of the process
that we've all heard of Maderna and everything. But essentially it's made by crushing grapes, including the seeds and the stems. Also, I didn't know that either to create what's called a must. The must is then simmered to concentrate the sugars and then fermented. And this is where the expensive bit comes in. You if you buy the top stuff, it's aged in wooden barrels for years, often decades, and during that aging process it's transferred to smaller barrels of different woods, enhancing
the flavor complexity. Traditional balansomic vinegar from Moderna or Reggio Emilia follows very strict regional standards and regulations and so that you know, it's like, you know, like whiskey or wine aged in the woods. And so it made me think of it long ago when I was still based in urban a top urban chef contacted me furious because she'd heard something. Her normal supplier was on leave or something.
I don't know, but she used this new supplier. She ordered five liters of balsamic vinegar from the supply, and she paid top price for it, and she delivered this five liter bottle, unlabeled, just this five liter bottle, and she said, I want you to taste it. It's absolute rubbish. And I can't even remember what I did with that story. But yeah, clearly there's a lot of expensive food ingredients.
We've talked about honey often enough, Olive oils another that are that are faked, and obviously balsomic vinegar, given that the good stuff can go for quite a price, is one of those products that is a subject of food forgery.
Interesting in food in the production market. Okay, so be aware if you're not paying a good rate for balsomic vinegan in particular, question whether you are in fact getting proper vos is the message.
Now, what about the imitation stuff?
Okay, So what I learned that I knew there was imitation stuff. I wanted to know. You know that you get some cheap stuff in the supermarket. I use it for sproat vinegar. I use it as a instead of a fabric softna with a couple of drops of essential oil. So I wanted to know, could that be imitation because it's you know, or would they have to label? So the food labeling regulations in this country require a label
declaration that says this is imitation. So if the label doesn't say imitation, and you're buying it from you know, a reputable outlet store, supermarket, then you can it has gone through the fermentation process. It has not been in the beautiful oak barrels and all of that that the bolsimica goes in. But it's not imitation. It has been fermented to create vinegar in the traditional way.
How do they create the imitation version?
Okay?
So is there no fermentation in that process?
No, there's no fermentation.
Okay.
It's a bit like sparkling wine versus mcc okay, where then there's certain steps erted wine versus the whole fermentation that creates the bottom kind of bubble, the natural bubble, as well as that that deep complex flavor. Right, So, with imitation vinegar, which incidentally is used by most fish and chip shops, chippies in the UK because it is it's a it's cheaper, and they add a caramel coloring. Basically what they do is mixed water, acetic acid and
flavorings and colorings to give it that caramel color. And because it's so widely you some people say they prefer it because it's what they become used to, like some people would prefer margurine butter because it's what what they know, what they know. So so yeah, if you don't see the word imitation vinegar in this country, it is has
gone through the fermentation process. In the UK they call it non brewed condiment, which will tell you it ferment it hasn't been brewed NBC for short, so that they have to say on the label NBC.
Okay, So the brown stuff in the chippy is not necessarily actually probably.
Unless it's a very high end niche.
I mean, one application where I can see that being necessary is if you've got a cleontell that includes a lot of Muslim customers who aren't got alcohol, you bought a product that hasn't been fermented, so that is you
could use the imitation exactly. And for people who I mean totalers for any other reasons, Yeah, Okay, so just be aware of that there are imitation vinegars, aren't there, but they need to be labeled as such if you're buying them here in South Africa, So just read your labels carefully if you want to be sure you get the real thing that tells me that the stuff up or into my fabric software section of my washing machine is actually has been fermented in the traditional sense, just
has been It is not using premium agreement ingredients of apples and things. After the break, we're going to share some of your tips, but quickly before we get there, Wendy, just to recap. The vinegar shortages come to.
An end, we understand. But what was the main cause of that?
Okay, so there were a few. There was a whole lot of things that came together, the rising cost of raw materials, logistics constraints, surging demand across the food and industrial sectors, and I think what tipped it over was a major of in nego manufacturer in South Africa, l is HL wholesaler Sorry shut down last year after a size investigation led to the discovery of false export documents, and the owner was sentenced to fifteen years in prison for taxis Okay, so a whole link that was that
was a major supply.
Yeah, okay, so it's kind of a perfect storm of factors coming together. And of course, as this made us realize, Wendy, it wasn't just the vinegar that got harder to find, was all the other products vinegar is a component of, like mayonnaise, like salad dressings, like tomatoes, sauce.
The packaging. It felt the knock on impact. Everybody felt it.
It was there was there was a problem with industrial packaging as well at some point, and that affected and the supply of vinego as well.
So, as you say, a real perfect storm.
Okay, So, but the good news is it does seem like that storm is moving on now and the supply chain is getting back to normal. So after the news, okay, we've got suggestions pouring in, which is wonderful. We're going to share those with you. We're also going to share Wendy's recipe for the vinegar mother. If you want to try and make your own at home, and if anybody listening has already done so, please do pop through a WhatsApp voice note or text and tell us what you
learned in the process. Was it easy was it difficult? Did it taste as good as the shop bought stuff? How long did it last? What do we need to know that you discovered by trial and error? Make it easier for the rest of us? Oh seven two five six seven one five six seven.
Casal consumer talk. WhatsApp on? O seven to two five six seven one five six seven.
Right, let's dive into the many interesting uses for vinegar that we've all found. And I say we because I use it sort of label if you like, in my house in two ways. Wendy as a cleaning agent. So obviously I keep the balsamic, the raspberry vinegar, the wine when it gets said for cooking, but for cleaning purposes.
There are two or three things I swear by it, and I always, as a result, have a big bottle of just playing spirit vinegar in the kitchen block drains a mixture of bi carb and white and spirit vinegar fizzers.
I swear by its chemicals. From the drain cleaners.
You pour some bi carb powder into the affected drain and then splash over the white wine vinegar, and the reaction that it creates is instant physical spying, very satisfying, and more importantly, does the trick. Second one is I use it every six months or so I give my washing machine a good cleanout. I do that too, Vinegar into the drum, bikarb into the fabric.
Softness, good for dealing with soap scum.
Yeah, and just running on the hottest cycle and it lifts all the scum off the inside of the drum. And then the third thing is very similarly if you wanted to clean your air fryer, and anybody who has tried to clean the inside of an air fryer knows how to cult it is a little bit of vinegar into the bottom with some boiling water. I think I had a half a cup of vinegar and two cups of boiling water. You run it on its highest heat for about five minutes and then leave it to sit
and steam for about ten minutes. Take out the drawer, pour out the vinegar, and just give it a wipe down with some kitchen cloth. And you can wipe the element as well by then, because the element is cooled and all that lovely steam has cleaned off all the gunk. So those are the three cleaning purposes I use it for in my house. Let's take a look at what you are doing. Patricia says, vinegar is an absolute and must in our home. I add it to my linen's wash.
It makes it fresh and brightens the whites. It gets rid of ants, mixed with bicarb. It cleans drains, yes, it does. She's got another one for that combination though. It cleans stainless steel cutlery. I hadn't saw that one, She says. I've also used it to clean the extractor fan and hood over the stove, and that would make sense, very similar to the air fryer story of use to get into those very hard little nooks and crannies of the heating elements, et cetera, and extracta energy.
You don't have to worry about what chemicals are going to go in there. Maybe interact with your foo food.
Later on, because it's a food grade product. Danny says, on a dry sunny day, I spray vinegar on the weeds and the moss on the pool paving and the driveway, and it kills them. Trish says, I swear by this mixture. I've passed it on to all of my friends as a cleaning mixture. A good squirt of sunlight liquid three good glugs of white vinegar. Put that in a spray bottle, fill it up to the top with hot tap water
and put the spray nozzle on. Mix it all up, and then use this mixture when doing dishes by hand, especially for greasy frying plans. You just spray it on scrub with a long handled dishbrush and watch it magically clean everything. I also use this on collars and cuffs, on counters, mirrors, windows, the shower door, the bathrooms. It gets rid of smells quickly. It decreases build up quickly. Don't make it too strong because you don't want to
have to rinse. Approximate measurements or one teaspoon of sunlight to three dessert spoons of white vinegar to five hundred miles of hot water and Trisha. Interestingly, that's the recipe I was given as a toilet spray during the drought crisis. We're trying not to flush, and I've still got that bottle in my kitchen in my bathroom, exact same measurements teaspoon of sunlight liquid, three dessert spoons of white vinegar, and five hundred miles of hot water. So Trisha's all
purpose cleaner is made with those ingredients. Jill says, I made apple cider vinegar, which was quite an experiment. I've still got bottles and bottles of it. I drink it with some sparkling water. Now here we go. Some of my bottles produced a mother, which I never knew what to do with, so I just bottled them in vinegar and then I had to chuck them out recently because they were so disgusting. And the biggest problem I had was fruit flies. Where they came from, I don't know.
I then read to put some apple side of vinegar and sunlight liquid in a small container, which would drown them. It was huge fun. Now sorry about sorry for the fruit flies. When need explain to us what the mother is, please.
Okay, So now I've got to find it in my notes because we've gone Okay. So it's a gloopy, jelly like blob of cellulars like I would say, more of a disc lot, more of a disc than a clob that would sit at the top of the liquid. So it transforms alcohol into tangy, tasty vinegar, and it can go on to make many many more batches. I don't know if it ever goes into manymporus stops being able to do it. But anyway, so here's what you do, and I've googled this and tried to find the best recipes.
So in a glass container, you mix two cups of raw apple cider or diluted wine. So it would be one to one with water of cider or sorry apple sader on its own, or diluted wine one to one with a quarter of a cup of raw unfaulted vinegar. So I said, okay, what is raw unfaulted vinegar. It's the kind that you get from health shops. Look for cloudy sediment, because that's actually sediment of mother right. Okay,
you're propagating it, right. So you get two cups of cider or diluted wine with a quarter of a cup of raw unfaulted vinegar.
You cover that in your.
Glass container with cheese clo some fabric that breathe, and you store it in a warm, dark place. Those are hard to find now between twenty and thirty degrees centigrade.
So maybe this is a summer thing in Cape Ton and way two to eight weeks and this jelly like mothers informs on the surface and then you can use bits of that to propagate it, so I would make mine taste really be really tasty with you know, whether it's apple or whatever you want to be the base and red wine whatever, and then you go on and I am so going to try this. I had never even heard of a vinegar moth before. I mean, clearly
not a very good Martha Stewart. But I have returned to making my own salad dressings because even the premium ones, they're expensive, and I don't think they taste as good as as homemade. So I'm going to be putting my new vinegar into my own salad dressings. Okay, future will report.
Let us know.
We've got a few moments at the end of another series show.
Okay, let us know how the mother goes.
Please, this is going to be a familiar voice, and I'm looking forward to hearing this particular application.
Hello, BIPA. Interestingly enough, we use vinegar in the in the industry when we need to book clear calcium. So if you ever seen these inner garage where the water drips and there's this cake of calcium vinegar clean.
Well, oh yeah, we lost half the voice note there, but vinegar clears away calcium build up. Thank you very much. Underload ambrosio idy man with that feedback, So that would make sense as to why it works on the shower doors.
It does, and I was going to say, apparently breaks down so very good for stains which we all experience coffee and tea stains out of mugs. Just yeah, so try your concoction.
Just plain vinegar, okay, So for a stained mug, just put some plan Okay.
You see how much you need to do the trick.
Faldila says her vinegar tip is to use half a cup of vinegar in a bucket of water to clean laminated flooring and ceramic tiles, no build up. And have you seen the cost of tile cleaner because Alda, that's a very useful tip, Thank you very very much.
Indeed, what else have we got here?
Peter and Kennilworth says you've probably heard about the vinegar and buikob unblocking the kitchen sinker, you and I both. Peter Sheila says, besides a dash of white vinegar on my smashed on toast, I use it in place of softener in my laundry too. I've stopped using fabric softna altogether. So maybe I must try the vinegar, but I haven't missed it. I've got to be honest. And then Tony's got a health you. So he says, I drink a small glass of apple cider vinegar every day. It's meant
to be very good for you. And he then sent me the follow up text about the re which which suggests it supports healthy blood glucose levels and can help lower cholesterol levels. Apple cider vinegar, Okay, please discuss. Please discuss that with your doctor before you start playing around with it, and make sure that you're diluting said vinegar properly, et cetera. Sarah in Heart Based says, my husband and son generate a huge amount of really smelly washing.
Doesn't that apply to every household? She says?
I add three cups of vinegar to my top loader with the washing liquid. That's a lot a lot. Chemical reaction of weak acid with ammonia helps to get the smellies fresh again, and it's also good for the stainless steel drum of the machine.
Three cups a lot.
It's also came up a few times in my research those tubborn male armptaine. Yes, it's apparently squirt of that on there is very good for lifting those out. I mean, we sound like Kim and Aggy from How Clean Is Your House?
Okay, keep us in mind for the sequel, please. JD asks an interesting question. I don't know if you know the answer, Wendy, but he's asking how long can you keep.
The arsenic vinegar once it's open? There's no expiry date on it.
Ah, that's a very good question, and I should have mentioned this in my prep, so thank you for the prompt. It's one of the few products that doesn't legally in terms of our food labeling regulations, need a datemark. That's the official name, the proper name for expiry dates, because they're not actually expiry date. Yeah, let me not go down there. So, along with honey sugar, it doesn't need an expiry date because it lasts forever.
Okay, So you can keep on using it.
You might just need to filter off some of the sediment that gathers if you have kept it a very long time off the top, JB.
Or use it to try and grow your next batch. But there we go.
Janis reckons you can use verjuice instead of vinegar. It's a much softer acid, and it's made from half ripe grapes, not wemented, therefore no ascetic ascid. Also quite an expensive route though, because virtue costs an arm and a leg, doesn't it. Meghan, thanks for the tip telling us that at Babylon's Turin they make balsamic vinegar and you can see how it reduces and watch the process.
That's fascinating to watch. Megan times.
Oh, sorry, mamac I've been many times and didn't know that, so that's very good to know. I'll certainly seek that out next day.
And then Mandy is just wanting to check that she heard you clearly, because she is seeing permutations in this conversation that we did not anticipate to listen to this. So I just want to be fresh to be clear. Balsamic vinegar, the good stuff is made by fermenting the skin, the pips and the juice of the grapes. I want to impress this Italian friend who married an Italian but was born here, claims she's Italian and knows everything about Italian and I want to ask her if she knows
how they make balsam. I want you to be going to say you wanted to impress it an Italian counts somewhere and seduce him with the knowledge. Mandy, But okay, maybe you can go one up on your friend with that knowledge.
That was my research, so feel free to do your own. But yes, that also surprised me, so let us know how that pans out.
Okay, apparently it is called a scobie as well, the same as you get a scoby for kocher.
But I'd rather have Scoby for the vinegar than the komb butcher myself. But there we go.
Thanks Elsa for informing us of that. Right, let's have a look here new Sorry, no it's not new. I'm not sure there's not a name attached here. Vinegar, wasp stings and jellyfish stings and all the spider bites. I remember that from blue bottlestings at the beach in East London. The life savers always had.
A bottle of spirit vinegar on hand stings. Thanks for reminding us of that. It didn't work for me though, I've never been stung. Touch words so.
Stung and Deban grew up. There was in the surf, did everything in the in the water, and I got stung, and I did the aloe on the beach. I did the vinegar progressed to allergic and ended up in hospital. Boat.
I was allergic and never knew. Oh my gosh, I didn't know you could be. Okay, Fosier that same combination with the three dessert spoons of vinegar to uh sorry, this is just the vinegar. Three dessert spoons of white vinegar to seven fifty mills of water. Fosier uses it to spray her roses, plants, and tomatoes. I love the idea of being able to use legs booth safe, no pesticides needed. Massie bites as well, in addition to the wasp stings and jellyfish stings. Sarah's sent a follow up.
Sarah was the three cups of vinegar that we were a bit worried about. She's written to say, I have a very large speed queen machine, hence the three cups. You really need a strong, large amount to get rid of the smellies, and you must understand I.
Need the big guns.
Thank you, Sarah. Okay, A few people ask you, how do you use that?
Mother? What do you add to it for the next crop? Did you get that far in the explorer? Now you've got me Okay.
So they're going to do some research on it, Lynn, but you've got the readys on hard to make it. What the next steps will be for making your.
Batch, It's how much you need to add to it.
Okay, we haven't got that far into the recipe research, I'm afraid, Land, But when you will do a google while we take a quick break, I'll tell you what. We'll give you some feedback see what we found. We're also going to make space for one or to open line questions after this. For now, one more from Michael, who says he has used apples side of vinegar with a twig of rosemary for shampoo. Used it once a
week for five years. I swim in the sea all the time and this keeps my scalp and hair very healthy. Apple side of vinegar with a twig of rosemary. Well, given how much I've been struggling with some of the local shampoos which just don't seem to lather as they used to. I sound so old saying that, but maybe I need to try apple side of vinegar with rosemary instead.
I think it's part of the remember our sunlight dish washing liquid.
Disc Yes, the reformulation of the product to make or planet Fi.
Yes, that's probably what's happened.
Except you now have to use five times for the product to get the same result. That's the conversation for another day, Michael. Thanks for the shampoo tip.
Consume and talk open Lin call two one double four six five six seven.
Bridget says, vinegar is also good to spray on CATWII to take the smell away.
That's good news, Wendy. What did you find out about the mother?
Can I just tell you about I can certainly tell you about dog wee And that is the best of avercart is t tree oil. You make a solution of tea tree oil. It's expensive, but you don't need much and it totally takes the smell out. Thanks for the time. Okay, So about the mother, the mother of a vinegar, you need about ten to twenty percent of the total volume that you of vinegar that you're wanting to create. So to make a litera you would need one hundred to two.
Hundred mills of my mother. Okay.
That helps it tip between ten and twenty percent of your intended ultimate volume of vinegar that you're going to create. Okay.
And then obviously you're going to play around with what what sort you want to create at the end, more or less for your own personal taste.
But it's a good question because you you'd and I would have had to look it up or fair when I try to do this myself, you do need to know you've never done it before. Do you need the whole disc or watch? So thank you for that question.
Okay, thanks so much.
Now on a completely different topic, I think we have got time to dis squeeze in one or two open line questions, and this is a very current and relevant one. So Tyrone, thanks for your patients in waiting for an answer. Tyrone says, I booked a spa day at the Spa on zeven Wacht State. I booked for the fourth of booked on the fourth of July and paid my nine hundred and ninety nine rand. They emailed me to confirm and check our requirements for lunch. That was on the
fourth of July. On the ninth of July, received an email to say there will be no more treatments. The business has been sold. And then what do we do now? Because this is the letter that he was sent. Due to unforeseen circumstances, we've had to suspend all services until further notice. We sincerely appreciate your loyalty and support over the years. We're in the process of selling the business and therefore cannot commit to any future bookings possible refund
I'll be communicated in due course. Thank you for your understanding and patients. What does one do possible refunds? They took a booking five days before announcing they were selling the business, shock, totally unconscionable.
They had to know that that that, of course they would not honor that book character So what does Tyrone do? He sends me an email with all the details and I very nicely try and get told of this.
That Infinity Wellness SPA Okay, very nicely suggest that yeah, they need to refund okay, especially in the case of I mean vouchers are valid for for three years, remember, yeah, so he yeah, not only should his current booking be honored or refunded.
Older one's chances, but in this case unfornctionable. And that is an actual word that the Consumer Protection Protection uses a lot, and it's very fitting.
Okay, So Tyrone, please pop through an email to Wendy on Consumer at NOLA dot co dot z spelt k n O w l e R. Please put SPA booking in the cape talk spar booking in the subject line, and Wendy will keep her eye out. Forward forward her that letter that you have forwarded to me on WhatsApp as well, and she will try and to your money back asap. And I'm sure Tyrone's probably not the only
person similarly affected because it's a very popular facility. That so if others have had a similar situation of having a prepaid booking that now you've been told won't be honored with no promise of a refund, let us.
Know as well if the difficulty comes when a company goes into liquidation, because then you become a credit at a long list at the bottom of a long list of other creditors such as suppliers come before you and all the rest, and then you can only hope for a few cents in the rand. But up until that point, yeah, and especially as I say, given the timing, he should be refunded.
Okay, thanks.
And then one from an on email and had a subscription to an American company called Headspace. I think it was a meditation app or something like that. She used to use it, but she no longer uses it, so she had no intention of renewing the subscription at the end of that year. And she says to me, at the time she took out the subscription, it was on
a credit card payment. Their website in dedicated in writing that she would be alerted with a reminder email before the subscription became due for renewal, and she says that never happened. She didn't get any email. They simply deducted another annual subscription fee from her card. And she has tried emailing them to say, hey, I didn't want this, I want to cancel the subscription, but she's had no response and she's all but given up. But she said
she's worried it's going to happen again next year. And her wording to me was, I'm concerned about how to avoid this kind of incident going forward, not just with this company, but with any others. Now it's an international company, so she does South African law apply no.
But this chargeback does, so I would certainly suggest that you know chargeback is a consumer protection that's applied provided by the credit card companies Visa master Card worldwide through the issuing bank. Soever issued her credit card. You should go there and insists that they take forward a chargeback dispute and you should get the money back that way.
Okay, so you go to your bank and ask for a charge back, Wendy. This just reminded me, though the process for us if a South African company was involved here. That requirement to notify a consumer before you renew a subscription. Does that apply to any kind of subscription.
Yes, the same would apply. They would have to notify you in advance. The same also applies to your fixed term contracts.
Your news twenty four. I'm looking at you, sorry to say.
I've been a subscriber since the very first introduction of subscription and I've never once received that notification.
Okay, It's renewed.
Every year, and I don't mind because I've wanted to maintain the subscription, but I've never once received that notification from this.
As far as I'm aware that should there should be a requirement for that, I can't think I wouldn't be a requirement because the actor is all about transparency and disclosure. What you don't want is a company to kind of rely on you forgetting and you know, you got to remember a year down the line that you've got to now cancel. They there should be that reminder.
Yeah, I mean, yeah, you can't mean you can make a note in your diary for three hundred and sixty three days time or whatever. But what a slipt for you know, every single Paul saying if it's Apple, they'll refund. It wasn't an Apple purchase, by the way, Pau. Sorry, but and okay, so you go to your bank and you ask for the chargeback facility. Is there anything you can do in future to avoid this happening to you, Wendy.
Well, they're avoiding companies as international companies that have auto subscription renew and making notes in your digital calendars or physical calendars. I mean, those are your two options. Okay, okay, sorry, I can just say that I've been reading stuff and international publications and news reports. There is a worldwide movement to stop auto subscription auto renewals of all kinds, and I think that would be wonderful.
Be fantastic, wouldn't it be fantastic? Okay from your lobstercots, else is in charge.
Wendy, We have to leave it there, But as always, thank you so much for all the work on behalf of our listeners, And a reminder that if you do want to raise a case with Wendy, the best way to do that is to go onto her website Wendynola dot co dot sed A, and the Nola is spelled k n O w l e R.
She knows an.
Awful lot about consumer stuff Wendy Nola dot co dot se There is a contact form yoh now knows a lot about Benegar too, contact form which prompts you for all the information that she possibly needs from you and really does speed up the process of enabling her to help you. So Wendy, we'll chell again next week Wednesday.
Keep well in the meantime, Thanks