Gape took Capsalk Consumer Talk WhatsApp on seven to two five six seven one five six seven Time for Consumer Talk, and Wendy Nola is occupied elsewhere today, so we are taking the gap to bring in some expert guests who want to talk to us about something we all engage with almost every single day but really don't pay enough attention to. I'm talking about the labels on our food.
Whether you are picking up a loaf of bread, reaching for that tuber yogurt in the fridge, or even looking at a box of cereal, the label has clues contained there in It tells you not only what is inside that box, but it also offers clues as to the nutritional content and the percentage of recommended daily allowances, and lots of things like that that we don't always fully
understand or know how to interpret. They are there to help us make supposedly informed nutritional choices for ourselves and our families, but if we don't know what we're looking at or how to make sense of what we're reading, it doesn't really help. And then, as my producer Max pointed out this morning, of course you add in the added complication that as we get older, those labels seem to get smaller and smaller and more impossible to read. Most of us end up ignoring them a lot of
the time. I have two guests joining us today who are going to tell us about the importance of reading them and what clues they give us as to what is contained in our food and how we make sense and interpret what is contained on that label. With me in studio is Roxanne McCaffrey, who is a registered dietitian. It's great to have you with us.
Welcome, thank you, afternoon, Ryan.
Thanks. And on the line via zoom is le Cerro Maroule, who is a lecturer in the Department of Consumer and Food Sciences at the University of Pretoria and Leseco. It's great to have you joining us as well. Welcome to the show.
Good afternoon, Popa, thank you so much, and greetings to the listeners.
Let's start at the very beginning, as they say, le Cercro, what are the absolute basics that a food label has to contain by law in South Africa?
So I think taking a bit of a step back. Sometimes you're to look at food and say, okay, this is an apple, this is an orange. But when we come to more developed products that have certain ingredients, it's not easy to see what they will contain, and hence we focus on ingredient lists.
We have information.
About where the product comes from, who the manufacturer is, and that is just some of the information that I will highlight. So first and foremost, what's the name of the product. We need to know what it is, what it's called. Sometimes you might get a very complex name, perhaps accord in blue, and to somebody else they might
not know what that is. But then some of these products have descriptions under them and that allows a consumer to make a decision that Okay, this is a chicken product, it's got pork in it.
Is that what I want to consume.
Then we get the manufacturer details, So at a worst case scenario, if you buy a product and there's a product recall, you need to know where that product is manufactured so that it can return to that vendor or that manufacturer. Often you'll also see the contact details and the address, even information as to is it a local product? Is it made in South Africa? So that is quite
important in terms of traceability. Next we look at the badge number also linked to the manufacturer, so that they're able to say when this product was made, and if they have to do any type of testing, they will then get that sample of products and know that they need to look into that. I know we'll talk about
the nutritional information, but yes, ultimately that is important. We all might be following certain eating preferences, whether it's for health, whether that's for intolerances, So even that nutritional information will guide us.
Then the quantity.
If you're buying five hundred grams, you are entitled to five hundred grams of that product, So you need to look at the quantity. And you know, sometimes we do feel like we get tricked when we buy a packet of chips and it says one hundred and twenty five grams and inside it looks like there's only a hand for But ultimately that is the quantity that they would have put in that packet.
What is very important.
Now, and I think this helps a consumer in terms of keeping themselves safe, is your storage instructions.
And we often take that for granted.
But if something says keep in dry store, keep it in dry store, then often we see it says once open, keep it in the refrigerator for a certain amount of time. So in doing that, we're able to know that our food remains safe for consumption, and if it is kept for ten days later, you shouldn't think you'll still avert any food born illnesses, which we really don't want the consumer to experience. So how to store your product is ultimately very important, whether it's frozen, refrigerated, or kept in
your or covert. The next important one of the dates, and it's a big one because sometimes we look at the sell buy or expiration date or the best before date and we think that's information for us as a consumer.
The truth is it has nothing to do with us.
Based before dates is a promise by the manufacturer or whoever provides that product, to say this product is at its best before this date. It's a quality promise, and that's why it is more for the retailer. Then we often get manufactured dates, also more linked to the retailer for traceability, to say this is when this product was made.
Then another one that we get is the sell by date.
Again, sal buy doesn't mean if I eat it the day after, something is going to go wrong. But you often will find that retailers will either take that product off the shelf or we also see these products these days being marked down and sold at a lower price. Yeah, and that ultimately should help us with not wasting food, right, especially if that is an initiative from the retailer. But ultimately,
with these dates, it's quality more. It's more about quality, and it's also just for the manufacturers with therefore casting to know how to rotate those commodities in their stores.
Okay, I'm almost that the.
Bigger one, and I think the core as.
It would be the ingredients.
So, like I said, we all purchase and consume for different reasons, and the ingredients, which is usually on the back of pack label, allows us to see what is there and in what quantities. The ingredients are listed in descending order. So if you have something that is listed first that product and that ingredient has a higher composition first in that particular product, and then thereafter it's all
the other ingredients and in the lesser quantities. Why this is important, and I think I'll give an example closer to home.
My father doesn't drink cool drink anymore.
Yeah, that are too matter when he was young, so now he's on juice, but he insists on one hundred percent of orange juice. Now with certain products we know or certain brands, we can trust that it's one hundred percent orange juice.
But now some products will say.
Orange food juice, and what that means is that there might be other types of fruit juice in that product. But looking at the bad label, we'll tell you that sixty seventy eighty percent is truly orange juice, and then the other components will also be there. This is not meant to mislead the consumer, because ultimately we're looking for good quality, tasty products and those other ingredients might just enhance.
The orange juice. But if you are.
Strictly looking for something that is one hundred percent of something, that should be listed first, and often it's in brackets with the percentage of how much it is within that particular product. So that's quite an important thing to be able to see what ingredients are in what you might be avoiding based on even how comes. So some people will be avoiding chili if you have perhaps ulcers, you
can see that from the back of pack label. If you are glutant, intolerant, or experienced ciliac disease, you will see that from the back of pack label. Some of the symbols I think we'll just touch on that too, that most manufacturers should if not symbols rather, but the words that should be on packages will tell you about the allergies. So common allergies peanuts, te nuts, eggs. Some people are allergic to eggs. There are sulfites in products
which will play the role of being preservatives. Shellfish a big allergy, soy and often will see that there is cow's milk or any dairy in a product, So that will be for various reasons, but ultimately that information is there to protect the consumer because at a worst case scenario, if there is a true allergy, it is threatening to the health. Sometimes it's an intolerance like lactose. You don't want to be uncomfortable for having consumed something, yet you
are lactose intolerant. And then a little bit with the other labeling has to do with religious consumption dietary laws. So if you think of the Jewish dietary laws, you will find a symbol that says this is safe to consume and is regarded as kosher. Same with the Islamic dietary laws. If something has been produced and in the right manufacturing plant, you will you will see a symbol that says it is allowed certified. Yeah, so that will help consumer say, Okay, this is not this is not
aligned to what I believe in. I shouldn't be consuming pork or dairy and meat at the same time, and any other religious laws that we tend to follow. And then you'll know from looking at the ingredient list at the back not to purchase that product. But now that's the majority.
Thanks, and that's a really comprehensive list. Thank you, Lisho, and please stay with us, don't go away. We're going to take a very short break and then come back with some listener follow up questions and then a dietitian's perspective on interpretation of all of those symbols and lists, et cetera that you've explained to us so well. So please stay with us, and if you'd like to ask a question, as many are already doing, send a WhatsApp to seven two five sixty seven one five six seven.
Join the conversation. Join the conversation you're with Kate talk.
We continue to the far more serious topic of food labels, and it is a serious topic. We don't do enough reading of them, and Keith I absolutely agree with you a lot of the time the font size on the package is so small you can't read it.
You get to a.
Certain age and you either permanently have the glasses on, or like me, you've permanently reaching you for your phone to take a photograph and magnify the label so you can actually read it. Dennis thinks food manufacturers should just have a QR code instead of all that fine prints, and then it can just be read from your phone. Dennis, I think if we did that, nobody would read any of it. Ever, I suspect, so I don't know that
I agree with you. I don't think I would be engaged enough to take up my phone, scan a QR code and then read the fine print. I suspect I probably wouldn't. Maybe that's a sign that I'm lazy.
But there we go.
Just to remind of our guests with us on zoom Le Serra Maroule, who is a lecturer in the Department of Consumer and Food Sciences at the University of Pretoria and before the news BREAKSECU did a very good job outlining for us what has to appear on our food labels in South Africa. Listening in in studio was Roxanne McCaffrey, who is a registered dietitian, and I want to pick her brain a little bit about interpreting what all of that information tells us and making better choices when we
make choices. As Parlo correctly says, the more unprocessed food we buy, the less we need to worry about any of the labels. A clove of garlic doesn't need a contents label, says Parlo and Bakov And he's absolutely right, isn't he love you to have you with us, and thank you so much for joining us this afternoon. A lot of people would deliberately try to avoid the overprocessed, the over salted, over sugared, high fat content foods et
cet trend. For them, reading these labels is absolutely essential information. Do you want to tell us a little bit about the kind of red flags nutritionally that we should be looking out for.
Yes, thank you, Papa, So red flags. Obviously we all choose food for different types of reasons, but from a health point of view, obviously we want to have a look at your nutritional table. So most products will have a nutritional table on fun facts. It's actually not mandatory by the law. It is only mandatory if you make a nutrition related claim. So if you are saying loan fat high in fiber, then you have to put the nutritional table on. Otherwise you can include it voluntarily, which
most people or companies do for consumer knowledge. So we want to know what we buying from the nutritional table. We want to have a look at the recommended serving I would say is very important how much of this food should we be eating. If your serving size is really small for the amount that you plan on eating, then it's probably not the best food to eat all the time, because your serving size is chosen on what
is nutritionally appropriate, Okay. And then secondly, the ingredient list like less sacramention is very important, not only for allergies and tolerances those types of things, but if sugar is your verse, second or third ingredient, you know it's in the highest quantity, you know, So having a look at what is first an ingredient is going to be the majority of what is in that food.
I'm so glad you mentioned the serving size issue. So the giant bag of hurryboor jelly bears, which I'll probably find if you only have the four, five, six or seven bears, that are actually the recommended serving portion. It's going to be a completely different story if you're eating twenty seven, twenty eight, twenty nine of them in one go, as some of us would do if we allowed ourselves to.
I mean, and that's something people own. Look, I mean, quite often that information is given in a serving size and in a grams per hundred grams sort of format. Is it important to take notes of both of those? I think a lot of people get overwhelmed and don't really know which one they should pay heed to.
Yes, so all tables at least need to have per hundred grams and per serving. So one hundred grams is nice when you're comparing two of the same food stuffs. If you're comparing two different cereals, it's nice to look at per hundred grams differences between them, which one's higher in fiber, which one's higher in protein. But then it's also important to take into consideration you're recommended serving size.
If you're going to eat more of the one or the other serving size is lower, then you know it's important to take that into consideration when you're comparing them.
Okay, you've mentioned sugar, you've mentioned salt, you've mentioned fat. The one sort of hidden thing that people tend to gloss over because they don't really understand it is when they see a label that's got a long chemical compound name. I mean, it's sort of kind of nonsensically a way to put that on there, because not all of us know what triglamorophosphide, you know, BC fifteen represents, and making that up by the way, but anything you'd like to
say about that. Are there particular ones that we should be alert to that are sort of hiding in plain sight that are actually not the greatest thing to be putting into your body.
Yes, So, actually the regulations do try help consumers a little bit. So they do say that additives, certain additives can be listed by their category names, so what they are used for. So instead of that long chemical name, they can just call it emulsifier or anti caking agents, raising agents, which helps the consumer understand why that compound is being put into the food. And then there is
a misconception about processed the word process. Yeah, agreed, we should all be eating more whole foods, fruits, vegetables, but there is a place for processed food where it needs to be processed in order to last long, to feed the planet, and then also for its properties.
You know.
Those E numbers as well, they are just the compound name, and actually you have thirty something E numbers in a tomato or banana. They're actually organic compounds that are named with an E. They are not necessarily harmful or are to hurt you, you know.
Yes, it's important to know eat them all the time.
No, but they are not necessarily the worst thing.
You know.
They actually are added for a specific sensory reason into the food.
Now, Stephen asking if you could please, are the one thing he sees on a label and doesn't really understand. It's the two part questions. But the first part is this, what is meant by reconstituted food? How would you interpret that phrase?
Yes, so, actually the regulations say that you have to indicate if a ingredient is reconstituted, and that just basically means mixed with water. So if you are adding milk powder and it's reconstituted, it's milk powder made into milk again and then added into the product reconstituted fruit juice. They taking fruit concentrate and then reconstituting till to its desired sweetness again.
Okay, okay, So remember the conversation we had on Friday about freeze dried breast milk that comes out as powdered at the end of that process. It's then mixed back with water to make reconstituted breast milk effectively same process, Steve, and I hope that's clarified for you. Andre says, use the Magnifier app. Yes, I do, Andre on my phone. It's brilliant. It does help you read a food label and as cooking instructions. As you mentioned, those are two
things I'm struggling with these days. If I'm using a spice mix or something like that and I need to be able to read a very tiny label. The Magnifier app, which you can download on your phone, is a huge help. Andre.
You know what.
My glasses are a huge help. I just have to make peace of the fact that I need to be wearing them more than I used to these days. Okay, So a comment on the WhatsApp here from one of our listeners saying burivors used to be a casing meat and fat with some herbs and spices. These days, it seems it's all sulfates phosphates, colorant, flavorance, and a host of other unknowns. Would you like to respond to that comment.
Yes, So burrovors is actually under our raw processed meat regulations under the Department of Agriculture, and there are actually strict guidelines that you have to follow. For example, colorance legally cannot be added to borovorce. They may be added to other types of straw sausages, but to call something a burrivorse, you actually legally cannot put colorance in it.
So that is how they try and control. I just do think that there is a gap for you know, knowing exactly the name that you're buying versus what should it shouldn't be in it.
We have discussed this is Wendy Nola before, the difference between borivors and what's often marketed as brievorse. There's also restrictions or limitations and requirements in terms of fat percentage and how much can be added in terms of fillers and that sort of thing. So really it is one
to watch very carefully. It's so tempting when you're rushing into the store to grab what looks like burrivorce and realize when you get home that you bought brivase or sausage as it's sometimes labeled, and it's a different thing.
It's got lots more additives to it. So one thing to be very aware of, Claire saying, one issue I have is manufacturers over protecting themselves, for example with storage instructions in the same way that many clothing labels will sometimes say dry clean or cold wash only, which really isn't necessary. Sometimes the food labels seem to me equally nannyish, so they're often ignored. There's also some onus on the labelers to post accurate and practical instructions that people trust
there are realistic. Would you like to respond to that comment. Do you think that that maybe they're erring on the side of being overly cautious because they don't want to have lawsuit if somebody is a little bit too lazy daisy with with how their store products.
Yes, definitely, But we also need to remember the Consumer Protection Act that it needs to be understandable for all consumers. So for some people it's obvious that this tomato source goes in the fridge. Some people it's not that obvious. Yeah, so you need to reach the whole market. In South Africa.
Okay, thanks An. If you would like to ask a question or keep on commenting, please send WhatsApps to seven two five six seven one five sixty seven. I wanted to just bring La Ceco back in at this point, Lea Cercro. We're hearing here about all the kinds of ways in which products are described on our labeling and the fact that there is certain terminology that can only be used under very strict conditions and certain requirements being met. In general, do you think that our food labeling laws
are strict enough, too strict, not strict enough? How does South Africa compare to to other countries, and any comments on where you think we're getting it right and where perhaps there's room to improve.
I do think we're fairly strict.
Our food labeling is regulated by the Department of Health and under specific regulation, and I mean going through the lists of and understanding all the things that need to be there. It definitely does mean that there are being held accountable. So a food label, as much as it is supposed to protect and communicate to us, it holes the manufacturer liable for anything else, and you know they there more answer to any misleading information.
If I touch on the borovous example you gave.
The regulation says for something to be called buravals, it needs to be ninety eight percent meat. Anything else cannot be called burovos, and that's one of our laws. It doesn't mean there's crazy other things and the other types of meat, but you find that there'll be more fillers, more spices, some water. I think we've all experienced that certain products when they shrink. So when it comes to calling something correctly and putting the right description and labeling,
I do think our regulations hold up to that. Something that happened I think two years ago with plant based items, they had to change their labeling altogether because they would say plant based beef sausage, for example, it is not a beef sausage.
So they needed to read.
Buying the terminology to say, yes, this is a plant based product, but you cannot equivolate it to something that it isn't. And I think they had a couple of months to switch it up, but that was holding them accountable to communicate the right information to the consumer and
not to mislead them. In terms of other countries, I think, and even when we see in South Africa a lot of our products because we come from big FMCG companies will have all the interpretive labels and other languages, so we generally do share similar restrictions in terms of what should be in our products.
And whether I'm here.
Or in the US or in Portugal, I can still buy the same product. What will be different is where was that product made? And I have access to that information. So I do think we're pretty.
Strict now on that note, Christopher asking. Thanks for asking, Christopher, because I wanted to know as well, where do you go if you feel somebody is being stretching the truth a little bit with their labeling, or being misleading or being non compliant if, for example, they were marketing something as revorce, but the label itself tells us that the beef content is nowhere near the figure you've just quoted us,
Where does one reflag that? Do you report it to the retailer, do you report it to some other body? Where do you go if you suspect either accidental non compliance or deliberate misleading of the consumer.
I think it touches on what was earlier I said that one you do find customer complaint lines, and hopefully that the manufacturer does respond to that, but definitely with the Consumer Protection Act, we are able to go back and say, this is what I bought, it is not fulfilling its promises or saying what it is, and as a consumer you are hold you are protected, and the manufacturer will then be held accountable to address that.
And actually, just a couple of months ago, thank you
to the person finding this. Wendy Knoler actually looked at a case of somebody who was marketing extra lean beef well beef mins that was only lean, but it was being labeled and priced as extra lean beef mins, and she took it up with the retailer who was selling it, and they did acknowledge the fact that there was far too much fat in the so called extra leine mints, and that the customer had been charged incorrectly and supplied the wrong product, and they did make good on that
particular case and also sort of pledged themselves to doing better on their labeling going forward. So that's at retailer level, or if that hadn't worked, if you'd gone in and said, listen, you sold me this mince and claimed it was extra lean. But I've done my own measurements and with my naked eye, I can see that it's seventy percent beef, not ninety something. If they won't help, if they won't acknowledge that they've made a mistake or misled, you do you go to
the National Consumer Commission as your next step? What's the next sort of phase if the retailer themselves won't take accountability.
I think it definitely is a tricky one with going to the consumer protection bodies. Another avenue if the because and it isn't the nature of the product right, If I'm bindments from a specific retailer and it's made on that premises they are, they can push back and say we're not going to do anything, and then it would be different from a product that's made by a big
FMCG where you can report it. And because we have big NPD new product development departments as well as food scientists, they will test the product and have to report that back to the consumer. So I fortunately you worked in new product development and when we did get those complaints, we had to go test the product and then communicate back to the customer that you know what, you're right.
Maybe a voulu or so was given, but then it goes back to labeling and checking the labeling to communicate correctly. So yes, Unfortunately, when we do get our retailer saying I'm not going to do anything about it, we ultimately will make a change in our purchase decision never to return there, but definitely where there are food sigeists and research and development in place, that will be retested and corrected and they will then you know, a judged accordingly.
Okay, Just to clarify the Burrivors, I think you said ninety eight percent. It's ninety percent is the minimum meat regulation I think. And because somebody immediately sent me a copy of a copy of the label of their woolies Forurrivors saying what did a quick google, I think that was a miss, just a miss, miss speaking. They're ninety percent minimum beef or pork, whatever the meat content is, but it can't be any less than that and still
be marketed as Burrivors. So quick on the mark with your WhatsApp to me, Thank you to the listener who sent that through. What you have sent me is just in line with the absolute minimum required to market something as Burrivors. We're taking another short break. We'll be back after this with our two guests Leer Maroule and Roxanne McCaffrey. If you've got any last questions, do pop through a WhatsApp to seven to five six seven one seven. This
is ketal right. Just to wrap up our conversation around food labeling, thank you very much Stephen for another question, and that that that maybe Roxanne would like to respond to Stephen's wondering about how eggs are measured and categorized into large, extra large, et cetera. Is it based on weight, Roxane? Sorry, what's your name for a second there, Yes, it is.
It's based on weight. There is a specific regulation again, it categorizes eggs according to certain conditions. That's how you also get the grading of eggs. It's a very specific criteria that they have to follow.
Okay, So based on the weight of the egg, Stephen, is the short answer.
Okay.
Just in closing, Roxanne, we were just chatting during the break and you pointed out to me that that there are new proposed legislator laws on the table around front of package labeling. This is all still very much sttle in discussion. Point it's not legislated yet, but how significant are those is going to be? What stands out for you as as newsworthy and what is being proposed.
Yes, so there will well the draft proposers front of pack warnings, so what it looks like, it's like a little black triangle and will have to be on the corner of certain packages that are over in sugar, salt, contained sweetness, fat and you know, so that consumers can be aware of that. There's a twofold to this. It does have the goal of educating consumers that it's going to be large. Front of pack catches your eye. Consumers
know exactly what they are actually purchasing. But I think it oppositely it also, you know, we have the risk of when you make something look so scary, consumers kind of and everything has that warning on you kind of become numb to it. So there is a twofold in one fold, yes, consumers are going to be more aware.
In the other fold, it just becomes background noise.
It turns background noise. And some things might have to carry a warning label that actually may be beneficial and other nutrients. For example, something like a flavored milk that child mat have as a snack. You know, it's got protein, it's got calcium, it's got magnesium. Yes, it may have the sugar and carry a sugar warning, but it is beneficial in that person's diet for other reasons, so it can be a little bit more.
Confusing, okay. If nothing else, though, it's a simple to say, hey, you need to pay attention to what is in this product and read the labels more carefully and take responsibility for making those choices for yourself. So thank you very much for pointing that out, Leseco. Let me put the last question to you. I'm sure you're also acutely aware of the new proposed the draft legislation around front of
package labeling. Do you want to share with us what you think of the proposals or anything else that you'd really like to flag for our listeners to take away and think about when the next look at a piece of packaging around food.
Yes, I do think you know a lot of the labeling, as collected as it might look. Any initial to educate the consumer more takes, you know, especially because literacy might be an issue. You know, the reading the small letters, but when there are those symbols and there are those regulations to change the front, especially because the front is your first where your eyes land, so that is a good initiative, and I do think it's something worth investing in.
What I also would flag in terms of some of the things that we're seeing is when people market the organics and the free range products and understanding what that means because they are very high prices.
Right.
Yeah, But like we're saying, you can't make certain claims, especially nutritional claims, if certain guidelines have not been followed. So getting the right wording on the front of pack allows a consumer to make very informed decisions.
But at the same time, I think.
We also within our retail stores need to have that information around us and have those cues around us, and we often find it with the marketing material that we find in our retail stores. If there wasn't anything, I'm thinking, if there's anything else I wanted to flag. We did speak a bit about the additives, and you did highlight that, you know, it's not always the bad thing. Some things
our flavor, and some things are colorance. Some things are there to enhance the product quantities and known as the mousifiers. Sometimes you see something like gelatine as a thickener, and gelatin is not always something that everybody should eat. But if we now find ways of using symbols rather than very long e numbers and words and being able to you know, stimulate visually what the consumer can engage with. Then one hundred percent I think it is an initiative because that's what we look at.
First, we look at the front.
Not everybody has the time when you're buying your mind then groceries to pick everything up and read, you know, all the information. So front of pack is a very important starting point for any legislation.
Oh I thank both of our guests so much for their input this afternoon. Registered dietitian Roxanne McCaffrey, thank you for joining us in studio and La Sercra Maroule with us on Zoom Electorate in the Department of Consumer and Food Sciences at the University of Pretoria