Lunch with Pippa Hudson.
And now Consumer Talk featuring Wendy Nola.
Wendy is with us in studio today and we are picking up on multiple listener complaints about the same issue, jim fees being suddenly hiked in the middle of a contract. That's going to be our main focus, but I hope we will have time for some open line calls as well, and you can phone in on two to one four four six five six seven or send a WhatsApp to seven two five six seven one five sixty seven if you'd like to ask a question or share a comment.
Before we get onto the gym contract issue, though, I want to start by sharing an email we received this morning, Wendy from Rachel in Somerset.
Please you kept this one right well.
She mailed in to say I was dealing with a legitimate online shoe store yesterday wanting to return a pair of shoes that were not the same color as the pair advertised on their website. Their terms and conditions were outrageous, making it virtually impossible to return or exchange for any reason other than a four item. The time period allowed for this was two days.
From the data digree, which we know is not correct.
And Rachel says, then I thought to myself, what would Wendy do refer to the Consumer Protection active course, So I took screenshots of the relevant sections and emailed it to them, pointing out the differences. The response was immediate. They agreed to exchange my shoes for a different pair as per my request. They emailed a wable for that return within minutes. They also dispatched the new shoes the very same day. So Rachel would like to say, thank you, Wendy Noler.
Oh, thank you, Rachel. I'm thrilled to hear that. But I'm also very disturbed. We need to talk off air about this so called legitimate online store because, first of all, you also had the protection of the Electronic Communications and Transactions Act because it was an online purchase. Yes, and unlike when you buy something in a physical store, when you buy online, you do have the opportunity in the legal right to send it back without it being defective.
So the color, even they didn't fit you, or whatever they've found, but they don't fit you, so within seven days you can log a return. You have to pay for it if they are not going to pay for it. But in your case it was defective. So this whole two day thing and it's not in your case in terms of both Act you had six months because it was defective in to elect as you know, because she went to the CPA. I'm thrilled you. Normally people would this is my job, you would just right to me.
But well done, Rachel. You found the Act, you found the relevant section which is fifty six for anybody who wants to make a note, and they did a sudden turnaround. I mean that is so it tells me that they put out this nonsense block on illegal response and then if you push back with the facts, with the law, then they're all over and do the right thing.
Okay, because they know that they haven't got lass down on you.
I would like to pursue that off, please, Rachel.
That's that's okay, Rachel.
If you feel like sending up a follow up to let meybody you know who it was, I'm sure she'd like to take a look at those t's and c's. Then perhaps we can save others from going through the same ring moole you did. But well done you and thanks for letting us know. Okay, Well, a lovely mail from Rachel. But Wendy, I suspect we're not necessarily going to have the same kind of happy outcome for our complainers on the main issue of the day when you set the scene for.
Us with pleasure. So we're talking about fixed term contracts. Fixed term contracts are signed in this country, generally for cell phone contracts, gym contracts, home security, car tracking services, that kind of thing. You paying in some cases just for a service and other cases for goods and a service. So like with the car tracking service on the phone, you're also you're paying your your for the service, the tracking and the phone service, but you're also paying off
the phone or the tracking device as well. And you it's for three years, and you you can cancel early, but you have to pay a massive cancelation fee. So when it comes to gym contract, you're not buying any hardware, You're just paying for.
The right to use the physical train in the gym.
Yes, exactly. So I've had a problem with gym contracts for a long time. Admittedly, things have got a lot better. When I first started out as a consumer journalist more than twenty five years ago, there was these gyms were selling lifetime contracts. I saw families and thousands and thousands of rand and then they just folled sorry for you. That's the end of that.
I was one of the victim to the world of Health in Johannesburg. I started by a former world wrestling champion, if I remember correctly, And yeah, as a student, I paid what seemed like a huge sum of money at the time for a lifetime membership and I did use it. I'm not one of those who signed up and then didn't go. We'll talk about them later.
I didn't use it for a bart probably I've got a year and a half it's use.
And then I went one day and it was simply God doors closed, gym didn't exist.
You could have bought it the day before that happened. Yes, you know, so you can imagine, and I think you look back in these things and think, how is it ever allowed? And I'm hoping in years to come, we'll look back at what I'm going to talk about now and ask the same thing, how.
Does that ever?
Yes, that is tolerable, exactly so it works for the gyms they lock you in and the cellphone got it, they lock you in for twelve That gym doesn't apply to solfage twenty four thirty six months. If you want to get out, yes you can get out according to the CPA, but you've got to pay a cancelation penalty. And in the case of gyms, it's anything from forty percent of remaining subscriptions. That can add up to many thousands up to some gyms, or even as high as
eighty percent I've seen. I mean, wow, if you're not reading the contract, you're not going to see that, and that's a real lock in. So what most people do is they just keep paying until the contract reaches its end, and then you've still got to give a month's noticification to cancel. Okay, So you'd think, so they've locked you in, And you'd think if you sign the contract, you're committing to pay a certain amount on a certain day for the twenty four months or whatever the case may be.
You have no ability, legal right to come in month eight and say, you know what, I've had this and this expense, I've been retrenched. I'd like to I think it would be fair if I pay twenty percent less or even ten percent less, or whatever the case would be. There's no opportunity for you to Yeah, they'd laugh at you basically or hand you over when you didn't pay.
Right, But your.
Gym's do it, and occasionally the cell phone companies do, which always prompts the storm of outrage. They've all done it, but they don't do it every year. They do it at odd times, right, Okay.
What they do is hike the fees. Mat hike the fees.
So why how are they allowed to do it? Because they have a clause in their contracts that allows them to write. So in virgin Active's case, they do it every January and you can tell that, Well, my children had contracts, but you can tell i'ven't paid attention to this for sometimes when a caller called it, and I think it was not a caller, it was Odette. She sent a message at the end of last week's show
or Debt of Nordok. She messaged in to say that the fees were going up in January and husband had fixed term contracts and they agreed to that amount and thought it would be fixed at that amount for the entire duration of the contract.
What's going on?
And then her husband Anton followed up with an email after the show. He said we'll contracted to a set price. A debt had signed up for a promo deal of seven hundred and seventy six round for twelve months in November last Time day, and she was later notified that it would be increasing in January. I'm not sure if their amount, he didn't say, and I should have heard that. But then there's been some back and forth. He's been going to head office saying it will it increase, maybe
maybe it won't. We I'm pretty short will. I don't think she's going to be excluded. But in Anton's case, in any event, his fee is and he's in contract is going from nine to seventy a month to one thy and thirty ruand.
So an extra sixty round a month, yeah, he says.
I call the club, was bounced around into called head office and head office Tommy that they increase every contract in January, regardless of the member having signed a contract at a set price. And I was told it is what it is in those exact words. Yes. So then we heard from Leslie Gibson, who'd been listening to the show last week. She said same story. Both she and her husband got notifications from Virgin Active Sun Valley. The
other couple also with Sun Valley. By the way, a butt a fee increase in January, hers is going up fifty rand a month from eight twenty to eight seventy. It's not in considerable amount, so I said last week. Then that's not fair. That shouldn't be happening. And I repeated this in an email to Version Active. I said, I can understand and increase affecting new contracts, but existing ones, how is that justified? I said, I'm guessing there's a
line in the contract which permits it. But the member, the other party to the agreement, has no right to change any of the material conditions.
Now you didn't stop there either.
Besides your gut feeling that it's unfair, you also feel this practice might well run foul of the CPA, and specifically section forty eight. Won't you explain which clauses of section forty eight? Pointed out to Version actally, right.
So it's the section forty eight is the section on unfair, unreasonable and unjust contract terms, right, So, as I'm simplifying it, but these are the words in that section. As I'm not simplifying, I'm editing it. This a supply I must not offer to supply or into an agreement to supply any good services on terms that are unfair, unreasonable, or unjust. And that would be the case if it was excessively one sided in favor of any person other than the consumer.
So they can ear on the side of being more favorable to the consumer than the supplier, but not the other around. So one signed in favor of let's say the company, and b that the terms of the transactional agreement are so adverse to the consumer as to be inequitable, or the fact, nature and effect of that term conditional notice was not drawn to the attention of the consumer in a conspicuous manner and form likely to track their attention.
In other words, it's snuck into the small print and the third page of the agreement where most people probably wouldn't read it. But it's an oh, it's not a it's not an either. In other words, if you bring it to the attention of the customer, it doesn't mean that it's not inequitable.
Things.
It's two boxes need to Yeah, okay, So you asked virgin Active about.
This, I said, did you is this fact the contract is going to go up in January, even if you sign up in December, did you bring how is that brought to the attention of members and are they actually required to initial next to that important clause? And then I brought up another case which was similar to the one we handled recently. Member of the woman the doctor she joined us.
Yes, who signed up her son thinking it was for a three month contract, but actually it was one month.
It was actually for a year. And what she thought was the fee was just the joining.
Fee exactly, so it was three ninety nine. You can join it. She said, he just wants to go for a month a night, and they said, we'll take a month's membership. Brother. Anyway, she never got a copy of the contract and she we didn't read it. She admitted that, and she was now then committed to twelve months, which we got her out of. But in this case, kay Lash, this was Virgin Active and Pavilion outside of Durban. He was told it three twenty a month, but the first
abit order was four seventy five. He's got proof that it was supposed to be three twenty. He was to cancel without penalty, and he didn't. He says he didn't get a contract either. It wasn't emailed him, and it wasn't.
And I'm sure they told us when we covered that case with the doctor that that was very unusual, that she hadn't received a copy of the contrary rare and that.
What's the regal rumor I had to get to get it the contract. So yeah, so he was to cancel without penalty. And then Virgin Active's case, I'm not mistaken. It's forty percent of remaining subscriptions there on the better end, but that's still a lot of money to pay out.
Okay.
So you took his case, and he took the examples of those who've had the fee who've had the fee increase in the middle of a contract, and you put them to Virgin Active one.
Did they say okay? Virgin Active head of customer Service Jackie Walter said, Virgin Active contracts clearly provide for an annual fee adjustment effective each January, including on fixed term agreements that's twelve or twenty four months. It's not applied arbitrarily or retrospectively. It's a standard term of the agreement that members accept at the point of sign up, she said.
She said that that clause is clearly disclosed under a heading a section headed pricing, and they all are required to initial front and back of the contract to confirm that they have read and understood the term interesting front and back of the contract. I don't know if that means actually at that for us increased term, because that should that would be ideal. I mean people are used to initially at the bottom of forms. But anyway, let's I didn't until I'm reading this out now, I didn't
think to query it. She said, Our sales consultants are trained to verbally highlight the clause with the sales process, and so we don't believe that the provision falls file of section forty eight. Because it's clearly disclosed, not hidden or discretionally, consistently applied to all members and accepted by the consumer. It doesn't mean that it's not excessively one side.
I was going to say, so she's spoken to the second part about it being it must be disclosed clearly, but she hasn't there spoken to the issue.
Of the nature whether it's all fair.
Yeah, and just clause that it is such an inequitable situation that's one party. So the one party, the gym has the right to make changes Willy nilly, and the other party does not.
And bare amount of any amount for January of twenty For this year twenty twenty five, the increases were ten percent, so it's way.
Above Well, just wait until you hear what's coming, because we've got some that are substantially more than that, Wendy in some of the new cases on a related one that's come true to us. But before we get to that, Okay, what did she say about kay Lash's case where he was told you're signing for three twenty and then the debit went off at four seventy five.
Yeah, so she said, we're currently reviewing. This was yesterday lunchtime. We're currently reviewing Kellisi's case. If there's been any discrepancy between the greed fee and the debit auto amount, or if there was failure to provide him with a copy of the contract, this will be treated as an exception and addressed directly with the cast. With the member, I said, I'm looking forward to the update and I haven't had it yet, but I'm sure it will come and we can.
I'll definitely report back on that, but it will be concerning given that they were at pains to say that the contracts always sent out. We don't know, maybe they were Maybe he didn't see it in box, he said, he locked, he couldn't find it, but okay, okay, always pushed to see a copy of that contract.
Okay.
So, in a similar vein to the initial complaints, Benita writing and to say, my husband and son signed up with Virgin Active table View in October. They've just been informed their fees will increase by twenty eight percent. And when my husband queried, he was also told it's in the contract they can increase and there is nothing he can do now. Before we get to the other even higher than that exception, Wendy, let's just circle back.
I mean you've reached out.
Virgin Active have responded defending their terms, saying we don't believe anything here is foul of the CPA.
Is that it do?
We just accept the situation and ar you want a case by case basis for relief.
No, So I was thinking when I was preparing for today's show that I need in the new year, engage with the regulators, Engage with the NCC, Engage with the consumer goods and services onwards to say, there is this section forty eight, I think this is the case, and it's not just Jim's. It's software companies do it as well. Wow, you know it is. It has to be a classic case of a one sided contract of one company, one with the company one part of it can increase unilaterally
at their discretion. I mean put it up. By whatever you sign, you committed, and if you want to get out, you've got to pay a massive termination penalty. I cannot for the life of being I've been grappling with this Act for since which was still a bill fifteen sixteen, seventeen years. I think this is a classic case where
we should push chat. I'm going to challenge it. That's mine for reform of it, yeah, or for a reform or for it for those that are doing it to be told, it's a contravention of Section forty eight.
Okay, So certainly a story to be continued in the new year. Now, after the eyewitness news, we will bring in what has happened very specifically at one individual, Virgin Active Club, which has a lot of members, very hot under the collar. And you will understand why when you hear the kind of sums of money that are involved.
If you are a user of the club in question.
I bet you already know what I'm talking about, and you're welcome to join the conversation.
Consumer Talk with Wendy Norla.
You can join the conversation right now.
I must just preempt this next bit of the conversation to say that this is an additional strand to the conversation about Virgin Active increases which came in later, and we haven't put it to Virgin Active for a response.
I'll put my hand up and say I didn't see it.
Okay, I'm to hearing your response to it, because we've heard now from several different listeners as well as from one of our colleagues, who have all been impacted by the same thing.
And that is the substantial refurbishment that has.
Gone on down the road from us at the Point, as some people call it, the green Point Virgin Active. And when doy you mentioned that some of the increases, the standard January increases have been ten percent, we heard from table View twenty eight percent.
Listen to this.
So Greenpoint not just refurbished, but a complete revamp into a completely new kind of club, their premium brand collection clubs when it reopens in January. It's an entirely new space. It's got a spa, and it's got coworking facilities, et cetera, et cetera. Added on, so a very bells and whistles upgrade to what was there before.
But here's the kicker.
The people who were members there before are being off at the option two options. Basically, you can continue your membership here at a vastly inflated rate, or it's okay if you don't want to do that, you can go and train at Wembley Square or Forshare. Now, our colleague who lives on the far end of cepoint is saying, for me to get to Wembley Square or in Rush our track after work forty five minutes drive, it's just not a liable alternative for her. But neither is the
fee increase that comes with it. So here are a few examples. Ryan's saying, they closed that gym, let everyone know that they would be upgrading it over six months. We then got males to say it's changed from being a normal gym to the so called new country club. The fee is going from six hundred to eighteen hundred round a month in his case, so that's tripling the fee and same story. If you don't like it, move
to Wembley or Forshaw. Listen to this listener. Jenna, who wrote to us, had two children with associated memberships who were using that gym, and she said, listen to this.
Okay.
Jenna's daughter who was paying four hundred and fifty round per month, her fee will go up to seventeen fifty per month, so more than four times higher. If they don't want to pay, they have been told you have to pay the forty percent canter.
To add insult to injury.
Just three months ago, so while this gym was closed, knowing that it was going to reopen in January, she signed her son up.
Nobody said anything to her.
At that point about the fee jump that was coming, so she signed him up at three hundred and twenty rand a month. That one is going up to two thousand, two hundred permit, and when she questioned it, she said, they told her the reason for the substantial increase is that these child members will now have accessed all kinds of wonderful additional benefits unlimited paddle, luxury spa facilities, sound baths and my favorite coworking spaces which are so in
demand children. She says that no stage during the past year has there been a mention of this drastic increase, not even when I signed that new contract three months ago, and she I thought quite reasonably wrote, I fully understand that Virgin are entitled to increase their rates, and due to their huge investment they've put into the new club, they need to do so. But it's the very poor communication, not giving members the full picture where new contracts that
were being signed, that feels akin to extortion. She says, none of these facilities are needed by the children. I'm sure they're lovely to have, but instead of taking away my kid's ability to train at an affordable rate, challenged version and said, why don't they tear the offering so that members who just want to use the equipment have the option of a lower, lower price, specially bells.
And I've signed the other contracts.
And she said, they simply shut me down and have told me to either pay or leave. She feels it's a very harsh attitude to.
Have towards loyal members.
Ryan in the same boat, and our colleague glynnis in the same boat. Here is Monica writing the same thing, being offered a new so called founders membership for the exclusively upgraded new club that we have to pay eight close to eighteen hundred round four. However, the office states Virgin Active can still increase the price at any time.
We're obliged to commit to twelve months. Surely that twelve month commitment should go both ways, she said, So, I mean, okay, And again we haven't put the specific aspect.
This is what I would say to vision what we're talking to, because I'm still chasing up the other case. As we said, so, yes, I presume when the gym was closed that they were nobody was paying anything because the gym was closed and nobody.
I think they were allowed to keep paying and use other facilities if I'm not mistake in others, I think.
In fairness during COVID times when nobody could be going to gym and some many gyms just carried on larger yes, and Version Active didn't. So I had a lot of respect for them over that because that was a great knock for them, but it was the right thing to do. So let's I'll put that on the table in fairness. But in this case, I think to I mean, it's just such a no brainer if you're going to do
that change the playing fields. They've signed a contract X amount for this without the disclosure that please understand, in three months, five months, whatever, this contract offering is not going to exist anymore because the gym is going to be in a completely different, more superior form and it's going to cost more. So there was no disclosure. They signed up and now being told you either pay three,
four or five times more or you pay the cancelation fee. Well, I wonder the cancelation forty percent of what the old or the new I'd love to know. I mean, that's the first question I'm going to ask. And also I think it's the cpa uses a wonderful word. I think it's unconscionable not to have allow those people with pre existing contracts based on the old offering for them not to be able to cancel without penalty. There's just so it's indispensible.
That was my gut instinct as well.
I can understand and as Jenna said, you understand there is a need to upgrade the membership fees to reflect the massive upgrade of the space, But to do that to existing customers who you locked into a contract on a certain offering.
At a certain price just does not feel right.
Surely reasable person would see that. So I don't. I mean, you know, and I'm like, I'm very very strict about the right to plan all of that. I mean, I've find it hard to believe that they've had this attitude pay app move or pay the cancelation fee.
I'm just sitting here thinking out loud.
But Wendy, to me, the fair thing to do would have been to say the prices have got to go up, and they've got to go up substantially to reflect ucility.
It's a different thing.
It's a different people to finish the contract that they're on and by all means cap it and say you have a choice. If you wanted to use all of the new facilities, pay the new rate. If you just want to use the equipment and not be allowed access to the chattler clothes, swimming school and the luxury spa and the bells and whistles, we will allow that at the current rate and let you complete the contract you're on.
And at the end of that contract you can then say to them you can take high fee a or you can find another club.
That acud look way fair.
Maybe they don't have a means of policing that. Yeah, maybe that's the access could be quite a logistical nightmare. But but there are fair always to go about this. And this is going to have to be a follow up for next week. I will say the very media for Indie their answer in good time. And I just didn't I just you know, matain Box, I just didn't see this extra one. I'm afraid, so that my bad. But we will. We will come back to it next week. I think it's a very important.
Okay, so we've already got Jenna's case study, and I mean those the child membership. That one, for me is particularly agregious because no child is ever going to use a co working space with with with with slide projector facilities, et cetera. Really, come on, So you can't claim that it's justifiable in terms of facilities that they will be using.
Definitely not, and I mean at the cost. I mean, if you've got more than one child, it's it's just it's attenable.
Okay, So that one is definitely to be continued. We have Jenna, thank you. We have a very well detailed
example with costings from you. If the others Ryan and Monica who mailed me who have also been impacted, if you would like to send us just a bullet point summary of what you were paying before, what you've been told you will pay, and what you've been offered as an option i e. Take it or leave it, cancel at forty percent, or use another bra just explained to us what was said when when you challenged it, if you challenged it with them. Monica believes that it is
partly a strategy for spreading the crowd. She said that Point gym has always been over subscribed and crowded, whereas the Foreshore branch is undersubscribed. She believes they are trying to redirect some of the membership to the lesser used gym, perhaps that this is a way of doing it. Teresa said, Also this is also I think a fair point. Theresa says Virgin Active didn't ask the existing members if they wanted the fancy, luxurious gym to replace the one they had.
I don't know if anybody who wants to pay for such improvements. In Monica's case, she says, we're retirees. We won't be using the co workspace either, so the same thing applies. So definitely a follow up conversation to be had. It's around the principle of how they're doing it, as well as the poor communication with the members exactly, and particularly signing people onto new contracts without advisor.
Speaking of new contracts, please could some one of them or all of them send me the contract and we can redact all your personal information. But I want to see if you were made to initial next to the part that says there will be an increase in January, okay, every jest.
If anybody can can send us a copy of that, that would be fantastic, thank you, just in case you think it's only gyms and poor writing, and to say it's even worse with phone contracts. I had a two year data contract with photocom for one hundred and ninety nine round per months. By the end of the contract I was paying three hundred rand thirty three percent and to get out of that.
You've got to now pay a termination penalty. I'm so going to be over this issue in the new year. I mean, even if it goes nowhere, I think, you know, it's that old. I had enough and I'm not going to take it anymore. That kind of you know, push you know when we first got cell phone contracts or
even players you go. I got my first contract in London and then I came back and I had this phone and I went into pays you go and you had to pay to listen to your voicemail and it was like two and something at time, and so you'd go through all and it was the same I mean on contracts. Yeah, and imagine accepting that now there was absolutely outrageous and there was pushback and they stop that nonsense.
So sometimes it doesn't.
Yeah, it just needs enough people to say we're not going to do it. So I normally get the pushback with the self an increase. It's like huge pushbacks. I'll see you, we'll do it, and then MTN will do it. It's not every year, and it's at random times and years. They have had extra expenses in terms of having to secure their towers and all the rest. But do it with a new contracts, or sell shorter contracts, or let them cancel without a penalty. There's fairer ways of.
Doing That's the issue. So Janet, I take your point. Janet.
She's written to say that Virgin Active Point lease was up and the city had a bidding process. Virgin had to pay a huge amount to win it. I know it was a massive fee. I remember that. But and Janet says they have to recoup that significantly increased rent somehow. If that not won the bet, we wouldn't have the
gym there at all. All points. The point is, though, Janet, the way in which they're doing it, the way in which it's been communicated, and the lock in the telling people if you can't afford this, sorry for you forty percent cancelation fee to get out of it is leaving a very bad taste.
It's just all about disclosure and allowing consumers to make informed choices.
Well to your point, Jeff, is just written in to say, when first taking out the gym contract, the customers was shown around the facilities. The contract covered this viewed gym. Therefore, the rates should permanently apply to the known gym for this contract.
That contracts no issue.
If you get to the end of your contract and they then say, okay, sorry, but now the new contract is three hundred percent.
More, we understand choice. You didn't sign up for this literally, so we allow you to cancel it, no penalty. It's it's the not waiving the penalty. That's really I think.
Sticking in the crawl of so many people. Yeah, yeah, okay, thank you very much for those contracts.
Yeah.
Other branches also, this is from Catherine about the Constantia branch. She said is always packed to the brim. My husband's fees have gone up from twelve hundred to sixteen hundred rand. Mine have gone up on discovery from six fifty to nine hundred rand, which is a very steep increase. And she said, when I said I wanted to cancel, they told me I'd have to pay over one thousand rand to cancel.
So okay. So there's the communication issue.
There's the fairness question of whether it is fair to lock people into a massively inflated price when they signed up for something completely different and a different kind of facility. So to be continued for sure, all right, we are happy to open the lines at that point onto other issues. And I've already got one or two open line WhatsApps that have come through. Seven two five six seven one five sixty seven is the number to use if you'd like to send a question our way. Here is one
from Chris in Somerset, West. Could you please ask Wendy a question for me. I bought an ankle guard at a pharmacy. The assistant felt I ought to take a large which I agreed. When I got home and I opened the package and tried it on, I couldn't even get it my foot, so I thought, no problem, I'll exchange it. But then I saw the sticker on the box which said non refundable.
Is this fair?
I've donated it to our clinic where someone else may need it, but I do feel it's unfair. Well, Chris, that's a lovely thing to have done with it to make sure somebody else will get the benefit of it. When I do record medical devices or one of the categories like underwear where the right of return is limited.
Yes, but here is an interesting thing.
If Chris was it If I think it's a she Chris, yes, If.
She was unable to try that ankle god on to make sure it fit to do, then it's not acceptable to say we're not going to take it back. And then you've also got an issue of mis selling. So she was told by someone in a position of authority or expertise, this should fit. You brought the product on the basis of that professional advice and it was wrong, So definitely every fund would have been in order there
even if they were unable to sell it again. It was you know, you bought the product based on their great.
So she should be able to return it to the pharmacy.
Well it's too late now because she's donated it, which was a lovely thing to do, but for future reference.
Okay, well that's mis silling, which case it is not your You should be liable.
You shouldn't be all liable. Okay, thank you. We've got a caller on the line if we may.
Can we take that call? Yes we can, Good afternoon to use Zukie and Blowberg.
H Yes, nice to hear your voice against Hi.
I tend to know Wendy's thoughts on being sold a parallel import phone without it being stated, because I bought on those dews that didn't know that it was such until I saw an article on my board band. I mean, when I think it back to the supplier, all they did was replace it because it had been more than the sixth not a place it was repair it because it had been more than the six months.
Yeah, Zuki, Yes, the the Temer Protection Act doesn't outlaw the selling of parallel products or gray imports in this country. There are genuine products, but very importantly, they were not destined for sale in this country. They were not brought in via their official channels, which means they don't carry the warranty. And that's a huge that's a huge shortcoming, right you have a product, especially your cell phone, without a warranty. So that was a very major form of
mis selling. The Act says very very clearly that it needs to be stated, there needs to be disclosed to the customers and the customer can make an informed choice. So you might choose to buy a parallel import cosmetic but not an electronic product device, very big difference. So I would say, even though it was after the six months when you found out, the basic problem stems to the fact that you would arguably not have bought the product had you known it was a great important without
any backup in this country. So I would definitely how long ago is it now that you bought it?
Okay, it was so I bought it in November last year and I did return it to the retailer and all they did was they said they flashed it and then they sent you back the phone when I actually said I want a refund because slash and so apparently they removed the old software operating system and put them operator stumpany that allows it to work to Amafica.
Yeah, but that still doesn't give you any backup on the phone. And that's although yes, probably was a you which is which is up? But I would push that. I would say, that doesn't get away from the fact that you you broke the law and selling in marketing and selling this product and the way you did it. So you welcome to keep us posted via email or send an email and copy me or Papa or both. But yeah, I would push back. That shouldn't have happened.
Okay, all right, thank you so much, Thanks Oki.
Good luck.
I hope they cave as they should on that one, but please let us know if they don't. Okay, this this is an interesting nugget to add to the gym upgrade story. Kim says Constantia Virgin Active is also turning into a country club. They are looking at renovations next year. So also the version with all the extra bells and whistles and all the extra costs and fees that will come with that.
So be mindful of that.
Okay, that's I'm taking that in good faith as told to me by an apparent member of that club. But thank you for adding to that. So I think that maybe should be part of the conversation, Wendy. Are other clubs destined for this kind of upgrade? And how will that be communicated to incoming signees of contracts, Because if it's going to affect other gyms in the same way, then people need to know what they are signing on for could change dramatically during the term of their contract.
Right back to an open line question, This is an interesting one from d She says, I ordered a part for a washing machine from a supplier and then didn't need it after I fetched and paid for it. When I called them to ask if I could return it, they said no, it was nine hundred and fifty rand. What can I do to return it and get my money back?
Now?
There's nothing wrong with said part? Can she do anything?
She ordered it online? Yes, but and if she logged a return within seven days? But that's the thing. What did she say?
I ordered it, ordered a part? She doesn't say how whether it was online or over the phone.
Sounds like she made the order and then went in and bought it in a store. Yes, went and fetched and Paige so that she doesn't need it. No, there's nothing wrong with it. What many of those places do is they will take back and charge an Admond free, so they crawl back ten percent to whatever. And people often complained to me on that, and I say, well, they didn't have to take it back at all, and so now it's take it or leave it on your part. But it can be a flatno if you've bought it
in a store and it's not defective. A lot of customers don't realize that because so many consumers, rather so many people, stores will take things back no matter what, and it's given consumers the idea that it's their right when it's not. So always ask the question what their policy. They chosen voluntary policy on the take back of non defective items because they can do their own thing when they can do nothing.
Yeah, so do so in good faith. They sold it to you. It was in working condition, there's nothing wrong with it, so they do not have to accept it as a return, is the bottom line. I wonder if there's a platform where you can try selling it on Yogo?
Is my cut instinct, neighborhood or your neighborhood or Facebook marketplace or something like that. See if you can sell it would find a buyer. But if you do do Facebook marketplace, you know what the rules are. Do you vet your seller, you meet in a public place, you don't get lured into going anywhere else to sell it to them.
It's a yeah. So that's an option.
Is you can try and sell it secondhand, well, sell it as unused, but on a second hand platform effectively is the only way I can think of for d to claim any of that money back.
I'm sorry that stings. Sry, it does, yeah, it does indeed.
Okay, right, we have oh just about a minute in hand, so I don't think there's time to tackle a new question. I do want to just say this, if you want to send Wendy, particularly to those people impacted.
By the gym upgrade and the upgraded fee that came with it.
If you want to send additional cases to Wendy, please do it quickly today before she reaches out to Virgin.
Active, so we can send you to do it this evening. Okay, so send it this afternoon if possible.
Just pop her a mail to consumer at Nola dot co dot z a k n O w l e R and just set out for her how you have been impact, When did you join that gym, what length of contract are you on, what was your fee beforehand? What have you been told the fee will be now? What options have you been offered as an alternative if
you don't want to pay that fee, et cetera. Any of that relevant information and send it through to Wendy and we will try and put together a list of than our several people complaining on the same issue, which we can then send through to Virgin Active to get a response, and we will commit to obviously if.
They get back to us in time.
We will share that response next week Wednesday for those who are interested, So please make an appointment to listen next week Wednesday. On that note, if you do ever want to raise a case with Wendy, the best thing to do is to fill out the form on her website, which is Wendy Nola dot co dot spelled k n O w l e R. There is an extensive contact form that she has created in a way to prompt all of the information.
She needs from you, and you can put two attachments okay.
With attachments included so that everything goes into one single point of contact for her makes it so much easier to follow up on cases, but otherwise the email by default consumer at NOLA dot co dot sed Wendy, thank you as always and we'll ch out again Weday Yes,