Lunch with Pipper Hudson and now Consumer Talk featuring Wendy Nolar.
It is time for Consumer Talk, and Wendy Nola is back with us this week here in studio, and we're going to be talking about a cluster of complaints about an air conditioning business which raises big questions around the risk of paying either in full or a substantial deposit upfront before you have received the promised goods or services.
If you have had experience with this issue, if you'd like to ask a question or engage, you are welcome to call us on two one four four six five sixty seven, or you can send a voice note or WhatsApp text to seven two five six seven one five six seven. Great to have you back with us. We missed you last week.
Thank you your pet too.
This is a tough one because a lot of service providers do ask for substantial or sometimes even full payment upfront, and I know often as consumers we don't feel empowered to query that. But the case studies we're looking at today, Wendy, are a good example of how that situation can go wrong.
Absolutely so with any home or office installation or construction, there is risk to both parties. Right, So for the contractor, there's the risk that the client won't pay, and shamefully many doesn't. Yeah, they find some little niggle and then just dodge the payment. And for the custom of the risk is of course that the supplier will take your money and give you nothing in return. Nothing that is but a long, exhausting and mostly fruitless run around to
get your money back. And that's why contractors require deposits on acceptance of their quote, and quite understandably as well. To my mind though it shouldn't be more than a fifty percent deposits, so that each party has equal skin in the game, equal risk. And when I started in consumer journalism twenty seven years ago, that was it was. It was the norm, the norm, equal skin in the game. And that deposit that contractors are asking is going up
and up and up. And I'm sure those who are listening driving along thing when I say cost so many customers don't pay whatever. That is the reality. But our the upshot is that is that the consumer has far more to lose if things go wrong than the contract the conduct they've got, you know, seventy percent is common eighty percent. I would say for me that would be a step two free except in extreme cases depending on what the woods being supplied are with risk. The contractor
carries that kind of thing. But eighty percent you must know you are at quite great risk if something goes wrong.
Okay, which then leads us to today's case study, or rather case studies plural with yes.
So Cape based cool Tech Solutions asked for payment of eighty percent of the quote job as a deposit from its customers. But in the case of at least six people, and those are just the sex that we know of, the company, which is run by Jacques and Mandre Small, took their money the eighty percent deposits and then failed to install the air conditioning units, some in homes, two in business prisonerses, all in the Cape area. The date
between August last year and May of this year. The areas that the company operated and ranged from Somerset West to Wellington, Paro, Mornsbury, Atlantis and Balville.
Now did these clients ask for their money to be refunded after time had passed?
Wendy, Yes, so that you know they they paid their deposit, waited for installation the dates came. There was various excuses. Bad weather, Bucky broke down, fell off a ladder, and then of course the client reaches the point where they say, okay, well I want my money back. Then they got letters saying or email saying semesters some form of communication saying we all pay you back within I think it was five to ten or ten to fifteen working days. I'll
confirm that in a bit. And then just as that period was coming to close, that get in the case of three, they got letters saying we're going We've gone into liquidation. So sorry, sorry, you won't.
Join the line of creditors. Yes, yeah, okay, now, Wendy. Obviously that does happen. It can happen. Businesses go into liquidation. Times are very tough out there, we know. But what is problematic here is the timeline around that going into liquidation letter versus new orders being taken.
Okay, absolutely so. In the case of the sex which we'll call them, three of them got those we are liquidating notifications in March of this year. But in April and until fairly recently, mandre Smile was still placing adverts for Aircon specials on Facebook marketplace. In April, some weeks after those we are liquidating emails was sent to the three of the six who had been asking for a
refund of their deposits. Call Tech Solutions quoted two more people for jobs, two more that we know of, and accepted payment of eighty percent deposits from them, and they didn't delivered the goods to them for the service. So that is problematic. And I think it's relevant to say that the losses of the six combined cases, so the total of their eighty percent deposit that they paid is around one hundred and forty six thousand grand, so.
It's substantial subti Now, Wendy, those six haven't just come to us at consumer consumer talk. They've also taken steps to pursue criminal action, haven't they.
Yeah, so they've opened cases a fraud at various police stations. Our information is that those cases are our being coordinated by steps, because if you go that's the only way that you're really going to be able to build a case. If you've got one case one police station and another one and they and the operation signers, but the prosecutor,
you know, the chances of prosecution are not great. But once you've got a pattern and several complainants all with the same moders operandi, then you know there is interest and the appetite to prosecute put up.
Okay, so six of these complaints planets have open cases of fraud, and we'll take a look at the individual ins and arts of those cases one by one, but just to say so police action has been taken and in one case a consumer a small claims court actually small court get to in a moment, but the bottom line is that these these are the six that we're
aware of who paid their eighty percent deposits. And Wendy also important to say, and I think, in fairness to the company, important to say that some of them said to us, I did so because i had previously dealt with them, and I'd had good experiences with their service delivery when they were trading under a previous name as Efficient Air Conditioning and Ventilation. We knew it was the same people, so we thought we'd get the same kind of service.
Actually, and that makes it really, say me and quite odd because you know, I mean, we've all done that, had good experience from a company, and then use them again with great faith that you know you're going to get the same good service. For most of the six well, certainly. Yeah.
Many of them had had this good experience, good, good value for money, good service, efficient service from Efficient air Conditioning and ventilation, which is and by the same couple one of their names, So yeah, and then had a completely opposite experience working time around. Yeah.
Okay, well, let's bring in one of the complaint's. Laura Ford is with us on the line and it was her husband David, who dealt with Shark about an aircon installation at their home at the end of last year. Laura, thank you so much for being willing to chat to us today and welcome to the show.
Thank you very much, nice to be with you.
Thank you. Won't you just tell us briefly what happened starting with your your earlier dealings with this endeavor.
Yes, I think the whole sort of crux of this or the continuing line of province, or is the the modus apparandi. So our initial contact with them was in March twenty twenty with an installation. We subsequently used them over the following years seven times and never had issues. Fantastic service, attention to detail, no complaints, so it was a complete no brainer. When we wanted to install two
new units in December to make contact with them. They gave advice on what units pricing, and yeah, we paid the quote eighty percent deposit without a second thought. We truly never ever thought to just take five minutes and do a bit of social media research, which was a valuable lesson. It doesn't take long to just go and do a little bit of googling, a little bit of Google reviews, Facebook comments to get a quick picture. But
we didn't. And then yes, and when he says, we started getting the excuses and kind of by us led March realize that things were going south. And then that's how I found the other a grief parties their complaints on Facebook and how we kind of got our little group together comparing notes and we basically all went through the same, the same process of receiving the letter of liquidation and yeah, initially refund I within twelve to with
intention shifteen different they acted and materialized. Then it was after though were in liquidation. But you know liquidation, When you go into liquidation, you have to see trading. And then, as Wendy said, they have continued trading up until yeah, last month with the last issue. We know, so yeah, that's the story.
Laura as amount of interest. Can you say you received a list of excuses why the work wasn't being done? What were some of those excuses? What were you told me?
We say there were Okay, So installation was supposed to be twenty three December. We then were told that he had an accident with a grinder and into his hand and he did an operation. So that kind of limade us back off until end of January because we realized he would need to get better. Then they told us they had Bucky problems. Then the lad the lad and they were actually on their way to us when the Bucky broke down and I mean, you just can't actually
make this stuff up. And then the sun broke his arm, and then we kind of realized, okay, know we want to refund.
How much had you paid Laura as an eighty percent depositive?
We paid sixty five.
Okay, substantial amount. And yeah, you naturally suspect you've spoken to sex, but you suspect that there could be others If somebody, yeah, if somebody listening also paid a deposit to this operation and have nothing to show it, what would you advise them to do?
Please get hold of us and will give you an email and address that we have for our group. But the more people we can find, the more powerful our case is.
With that, we.
Realized, I think the biggest thing here is we realize we're not going to feed that money again. That money is gone, but we need to stop this happening to other piece. If said don't get stopped, they will just continue to do this, okay, and I mean at a point where they can't keep doing this' that's wrong. It's falled. I mean one hundred and fifty thousand rand and there's actually nothing to show for that.
Did you ever intempt to engage with one of the couple to say you were so great, we loved the service.
What happened absolutely well, either they ignore your emails or your WhatsApps, But I mean my husband really genuinely tried to reach out and tell them that they were going down the wrong road. And yeah, come on, did you turn this around?
Did you ever speak to them or was all your correspondence written about email or SMS or WhatsApp?
Mm hmm, there was no actual conversation. Well, yeah was when I Jock was recommending what units to put in, But otherwise that is their one the one graft we have had with them in that entire period since we started using them, which they don't answer their phone, they don't apply to email, but we kind of overlooked at because their service was so good.
Yeah, it's just kind.
Of a yeah, okay, So Laura, look, I wanted to say again, I think it's it's fantastic the solidarity you've all shown in grouping together to try and make sure that other people don't fall victim to this murdus oper Randy, won't you just remind us again if somebody is listening to this, going, hey, hashtag me too. It happened to us. What's the best way to connect with.
You, mat The email is air con forward at gmail dot.
Com, airconfraud at gmail dot com, and you can then be connected with the other people who have brought cases to SAPs and make sure that you are contained under the same sort of separate, same group as it were in how it's treated.
Well.
Laura, I'm really sorry that this happened to you, but thank you for being willing to come on air and share the details with us so that others can avoid this happening to them. I think it is very valuable and we do appreciate it.
Thanks, thank you, thank you so much.
Laura Ford speaking to us. There so one of the six cases that we looked at, Wendy, shall we I'll tell you what we well less briefly look at one or two of the others. I'm keeping an eye on the clock and knowing that news is looming. But there are five others, all with very similar stories. So I think it does reinforce what we've just heard from Laura. Do you want to tell us about what happened to Albert.
I've spoken to all of them. In January Albert deforce of Paropaid cool Tech a deposit of almost twenty five thousand Rand to an install an air con unit in his home. Installation was supposed to happen on the eighth of feb didn't happen. Excuse has included the broken down bucky he or his wife being ill, that's that's jock smell, and then a long string of next weekend, next weekend. He asked for a full refund at the end of Feb, got a letter saying he'd get it in ten to
fifteen working days. The same EMMO two days before that was up he received notice of intention to liquidate. Albert opened a case of fraud in March, and he was one of several This is interesting, one of several of the complainants of the six who received an email from Jacquies yesterday ordering him to immediately cease and desist from making false to Pametory and harrissing statements against him and his family yesterday.
Obviously subsequent suit to your engage, and we have had engagement in which we will share.
Obviously Laura got part of Laura and David who has beand got the same the same letters.
So three of them all yesterday, yep. Okay, So three of the six have received that letter from his three other two or three will i'll confirminacy okay. So we'll pause it there for a second because we must just take an ad break and go to news. But we will be back after this with a couple of the case studies and obviously with the response from the company as is the writ and fair that Wendy did engage with them, and we'll tell you how that went. After
the short break. Join the conversation. Join the conversation you're with Kate talk okay yo, as one of our listener says, the case studies are always fascinating, but let's what real world recourse do we have. I'm busy shopping for a kitchen, and the default I'm being asked for is sixty to seventy percent. That's all with reputable companies. What am I supposed to say?
I would say, choose one that's a member of the Kitchen Specialist Association the KSA, because they will mediate any disputes.
Oh, that's helpful, and yes, okay.
And it's not to say that that there's you know that if they're not a member, they're not perfectly reputable. I don't want to create that impression. But I do know from dealing with these cases for so long that the KSA is very hands on if you have a dispute, and it's so nice to not be fighting this on your own.
Absolutely okay, So that's great advice. We've also got some advice from Angelou which will share with you on how to make what to giving advice on what to do when contractors do ask for large deposits. That hopeful we'll share that with you, and we'll also circle back to the other case studies in this current batch plus the owner of the business's response.
Cap Talk Consumer Talk WhatsApp on seven to five six seven one five six seven.
Right, we are circling back to the case of the air conditioning clients who paid substantial deposits and then never received their air conditioning systems. And just before the break, we had a listener asking what should we do then when a contractor asks us for a large deposit, and Wendy gave case specific advice to that person on a kitchen contract. But I believe we've also received a voice note from our DIY contracting guy, Angelo, who'd like to
share some advice around contractors and deposits. Thanks for sending this Angelo, Let's take a listen.
Hi, Perba Angelo.
Yeah, with regards to paying deposits, when we tackle projects, if a contractor is looking for a deposit, we require a the voice from the supplier, a tax invoice, as well as a transfer of ownership documentation stating that the material, once paid for, belongs to the client. There are other steps involved, but that's the way. That's the only way you can secure materials.
I love that.
I'm going to be using that, Thank you Angelo, going forward on all my platforms.
Thank you for that. So just to recap, and we shared some of the case studies beforehand, I just want to go back to where we started this conversation. The company in question is currently operating as cool Tech Solutions, and these customers have paid up to eighty percent in deposits for various air conditioning jobs, both at home residences and in an industrial setting, many in the Sumrset West, Wellington, Malmsbury, Atlantis sort of area, as well as some cases in Belleville.
And Wendy has engaged with the owner's Jacques Mandre smull and we'll get to that in just a moment. We heard from Laura, we heard about Albert's experience, Wendy, let's just quickly take a look at the others as well, because it does really help to build the picture of what's been happening. What are it to Domini.
Dominic Hag of Somerset West paid cool Tech a deposit of forty two thousand round in January for an air con job excuses for London delivery the same broken down Bucky. Then came the promise to refund letter, then the liquidation email, then yesterday the cease and assist that was another one who got okay, and.
That was Dominic and then we had Belinda in Belinda Dawson in Malmesbury. Now she was another one of those who said that she'd previously had a really positive experience with the Smiles when they were trading us Efficiently.
Yes, the apparently very aptly named efficient Air. She was so on the base of that, she was a basis of that, she was happy to pay cool Tech thirteen and a half thousand round of the ninth of August last year. This is the oldest case of the six for an air con installation. Excuses included that he were not doing the installation, was that he'd fallen off. Jacques had fallen off a scaffolding and hurt his back. After
she opened a case of fraud. This is interesting. Cool Tech made a positive two hundred rand into her account bank account without communicating with her about that, and as a result the case was closed. It's since been reopened.
No, so she'd paid thirteen and a half thousand rounds, she was refunded two hundred rounds and the police closed the case on that.
Yeah, because the thing was that there's no pattern here. And she was the first remember there's no pattern, and he's obviously going to pay you back. This is just the first and that was also the last. So she's currently owed around thirteen thousand and three three hundred five.
And then we have Craig Bauer.
So just to say she took the matter to the small claims court, that's couple fell to a ps so she has a default judgment and she's had no further refund.
Okay, So there is actually a small claims called judgment saying she is owed.
They didn't appierre okay.
Then Craig Bauer, it was the industrial one in his.
Yes, he got cool Tech into quote for an industrial extraction system at his billiard and dart club in Bellville. He again as well, they all have had previously had a good service experience with the Smulls, and so he paid his thirteen thousand rand deposit on the twelfth of May, and the case then followed the same pattern as the others. Like the others, after the quotation stage, which was handled by Jacques all communications with his wife Andre he told
me they still accepted my deposit payment. After sending liquidation letters to the others who they owed deposit refunds okay.
And then the final case that we are aware of is of Sculptretorius, who owns two factories in Atlantis.
Yeah, two aluminium plants. He gave cool Tech the go ahead to install two air con units in one of them and paid a deposit of eighteen thousand Rand in April on the basis again of a good experience he'd had with efficient Air also operated by the Smulls. He got no installation. The blame was put on heavy ray and unavailability of technicians. When he got the liquidation notification in July, he asked for the liquidation attorney's details, but was not given that information. He also told me he
tried to find out, well, where are these units. Let me come and collect them and I'll get somebody else to to install them. And you didn't get anywhere with that. So again, if you've taken Angelo's advice, that's a good one for everybody. Let me see the paide you so much upfront. I want to see your invoice from the supplier and the transfer of ownership so that I know
you've actually bought the stuff. And that is why deposits are paid upfront, right, because contractors need to make upfront payments for goods.
From the supply and outlet.
That's the justification for it and understandable. But then you, likewise, we have a right to say, well.
I want to see that you've bought this stuff with my money and I'm not just taking it running away. Yeah, okay, so Wendy, of course. Okay. So those are the six cases that we're aware of, and as always, the right thing you have to engage with the service provider who has been named in this case, and you did that, tell us what happened.
I did so. I Laura gave me a number of cell phone numbers and she said this is the one that you're probably most likely to get them on. And so I phoned the number and I got a voice recording and I decided, Okay, I'm going to not waste time on this. I'm going to send an email. Later I discovered that I've been sent a WhatsApp from West Coast Air cons West Coast Air Conditioning and Refrigeration of Feldriff was registered in January of this year under the
name of Mandre Smell. My WhatsApp message read READMA it hit open Lovely africaans or pro pramsque who can help West Coast Air cons So that's that's a company that is currently operating, and it sounds to me like the open for business of Otherwise, why would you follow up like that? Yes, it was an automated thing. I don't know, but that was my experience. Okay, but that's I rode back and said you are you in business? Still in business? And I didn't get a response.
But you did then, Okay, what you did by email was taking all of these case studies and send everything we've shared. One became of that, Wendy.
I also wanted an answer obviously on why were you sending out liquidation with emails saying justifying why you're not refunding deposits for people you didn't supply to and then continue to take new business and eighty percent deposits from other people. So he was very displeased at the inquiry. He vehemently resisted responding. Also invited on the show. No, he ordered us to see synthesist any broadcasting of the issue and any identification of him, his spouse or his businesses.
We have done so in the public interest. It's also said it's harrissment and defamation. It's not defamation, and this is applies to people posting on social media as well. It's not defamation as long as it's true and in the public interest. And we feel, and so do our attorneys, that we've tacked both and we've given him the right
of that. Our responsibility is professional journalists to give him the right of reply, which I've done many times, and I've had several exchanges, and so in fairness to him, just reflecting a little of what he told us, which is it's important to emphasize that there was never any intention to defraud anyone. We were not found guilty of any wrongdoing. The closure arose solely due to significant hardships and the difficult economic situation conditions which severely impacted the
viability of the business. He talks of closure, but nobody's seen any evidence of liquidation proceedings, and no one's got any If you are a creditor and you and you certainly are a creditor, if you've paid someone money and they haven't delivered the goods you would need to get, you get an instruction to contact the liquidata's add your list, your name to the list of creditors, et cetera. And none of that has been supplied.
Yeah, even when it has been directly asked for, as it was in the case of Skulk, who knew that that had to happen. Yes, and said okay, well, if you're liquidating, send me the liquidation attorney's details, and that was not forthcoming. Okay. So we have a default small claims court judgment. We have active fraud cases hopefully being investigated by the authorities, and then we have the claim of liquidation but no proof being provided by substitution to
substantiate that claim. Okay, So that is what we have. And I want to remind you what Laura said that if you are listening to this going I can't believe it. That's happened to me too. Please do consider reaching out to those other complainants and joining joining the case that is being made here. You can send an email to air confraud at gmail dot com if you'd like to
contact Laura. They will then advise you on how to go about getting a case number from the police, and you will be added to the WhatsApp group which they have formed with the other complainants by which they are communicating and helping each other to bring this case. So if you if you're driving and couldn't chat that, drop
that down. You're welcome to mail me after the show, pipa h at Cape talk dot co dotz, and I can connect you with Laura and with that address, I believe we've got a voice note responding to this conversation. We can take a listen to that and then a couple of other WhatsApps.
Hi, Papa, I'm listening to the radio and I'm listening to this and people are obviously being caught by these people. Why doesn't someone just pretend they want to quote, get the guys out and then.
Get them get them arrested. Because this is terrible. I mean, we run a company and we take an eighty percent.
Deposit, but we we let the clients pay this this the service providers direct should it be necessary?
And this kind of thing gives people such a bad name. It's terrible. They should be arrased. It's disgusting.
Well, the case has been late. Please how they choose to to to prossed?
And yeah, thank you very much for that note, because that's another good piece of advice. Is there's nothing wrong with you saying, Look, I understand you need to make an outlay upfront, I'm not comfortable with paying you a whole eighty percent. I haven't you know whatever, and let me pay your supplier and then you collect the goods from them. I mean, there are ways around sort of limiting your risk limit.
Your limitation of risk is really what we have.
And if they refuse and you want to ask yourself why.
Yeah, no point, Yeah, I'm smiling. Vickers going a season? Does this letter? This guy has been watching too many legal TV series. He sounds like a crooked as the comment, well, look okay, as I said, and we we we really we have done from our side what we could to engage with him. We have offered him the opportunity to join the show today and state his case, which he
declined to do. We did run it past our legal team to say, you know, are we doing the right thing in the way that we are proceeding and they were confident that there certainly was a case to be made for the argument that this is a public interest to prevent other people potentially falling victim. And we will
keep you posted. I mean, when hopes Wendy with with sufficient traction and the number of complainants come forward, that there will be action from police and we will wonder to be able to give our listeners an update on what became of this.
As you said earlier, the more cases, the bigger the apetheite that the authorities have to proceed.
Okay, watch the space. We'll be back after this with open line.
Consume and talk open line call one double four six five six seven.
I came in late on the discussion on air conditioning. There is a society it's called Soraka SA or a CCA, I think, and I would always use a contractor that belongs to Soraka. They are a very strong organization and they they look after all contractors. I would dry that.
Thank you for that, sirrakastans for South African Refrigeration and air Conditioning Contractors Association.
I did not know about its existence.
So thank you for that voice. Not much appreciate it, and thank you to my producer for looking up their their website already for US it's s A R A c c A dot co dotzed South African Refrigeration and air Conditioning Contractors Association SORAKA dot co dotzed A. Yeah, Faldi saying you know before paying a deposits find out this is great advice. Actually find out from the contractor where he will be purchasing his products from. Do they
have an account with that supplier? Phone the supplier and ask for a reference on how he conducts his account and whether he has bought any products within the last three months. This would give you an indication if he has a good or bad relationship with suppliers. I can imagine that some people are going to try and hide behind poppy there Wendy and say, I'm not releasing that
kind of information, but it's worth a try. I think it's a it's it's a fair point that you reach out and vet their business as you would vet other aspects.
What particularly sad about about the six that we've spoken about is that they and I think even I might have done the same thing. You have already a previous relationship, you have a high level of trust, and you just assume it'll be the same same people are sort of like the company's taken over by somebody else, or it was a new it was a new name, but the same people running it. So yeah, very unfortunate.
Okay, what else have we got here? Gareth saying, why do lawyers operate trust type accounts? That client pays in and the funds are only released when the work is done by the construction people. Well, you see, they need the money to purchase materials up front, Gareth, So kind of an Escrows situation as you would use with the property transaction isn't always going to work, but obviously that's the ideal world. Yes, everyone held up in the latter
and only released when all parties are satisfied. As it were. Okay, one or two completely different topics. We've got a few minutes, lets so let's just squeeze in an open line. Well, one of them is actually a follow up. Ellis has written in to say please ask Wendy harshe's progressing with the city zeven Wacht SPA the canceling of service. I have heard nothing from the new owner and Infinity are giving me the runner und.
I've had no follow up from them, and I am most confessed I haven't proactively done exactly so I will remedy that. And I take it though, and it's good news. They're very happy to tell you. So I take it that there's been no positive outcome, but it was sounding pretty helpful at the end of the last year. So I think we do have it.
Yes, Just to give the context here for those who don't know the background, This was a couple of weeks ago the previous SPA person who operated the SPA at seven Vakt State, and it's not Zevenvaked themselves. It's a separate operate business. I want to be very clear on that.
The previous operator went out of business or sold the business and left people with bookings in the lurch, and the people who were taking over that operation at the time, Zevenvacht reached out to us proactively and said we want to help, and they came back saying that the new operator had indicate they would try to help accommodate and we've heard nothing since.
So thank you for that nudge. We will I will make a note to find out and come back with that information next week.
There's also a thank you for Priscilla, who just wants to say thank you for your advice. I was being tormented by lawyers over a prescribed debt case, and she said, I told myself, you religiously listened to consumer talk. Use that knowledge to defend yourself. I followed all the instructions you gave, sent that to the lawyers and they backed down. That's when we're very happy week. Thank Priscilla, Thank you.
I've got a question, Wendy, and I'm going to ask you to remind us because it's the subject we tackled a long time ago, and I can't remember what the solution was.
I've got performance anxiety now.
Techi Town is the new Netflorist, is what I'm going to say. And I'm going back a couple of years now. You'll remember I was not the only customer who was struggling with net Florist, not unsubscribing from multiple newsletters set for us that that issue has gone away. I'm having the exact same issue now with tech. I'm getting like six email newsletters a week.
So you obviously were a customer once and had to supply your.
A single item from was about four years ago online and I have unsubscribed every time I received those emails. I have mailed them. I have used the contact form on their.
Website them on a public platform, which is not deformation because it's true to the public interest, I would say, and I can handle it on your bath. But the Information Regulator is very happy to hear these complaints and they tackle them, because there's no point in us having all these privacy rights. And we are legally protected, not only by the Puppy Act, by the good old Consumer Protection Act, which is fourteen years old, which basically says if you
say stop, they they must stop. And they are committing an illegal act by continuing to plague you with unwanted marketing. So the fact that you did business with them ages ago and you had to get them an email addressed for life. No, you never gave them a cent for marketing for evermore. But even if you did, you can change your mand And you've said to them, no, stop no. How many times do you reckon?
Well, I've tweeted once, I used a contact form on their website, once I sent an email, once I seed them in my email to the National Consumer Commission, which is how desperate I got last week. And I have also literally unsubscribed it. I counted it. I lost count after about twelve. I went back in my email box, and I have I have issued the unsubscribed instruction using the link at the bottom of those newsletters at least twelve times.
The information Friend and just copy me in on that, because I'd like to see.
The Information Regulator is where to go. Thank you very much, by the way. During my engagement with the National Consumer Commission, who were fantastic by the way, they got back to me straight away and said, we busy introducing a new online system where consumers can set up a profile and logger complaint online. It's just kind of in transition from one system to another right now, so please bear with us. At like five o'clock on a Friday afternoon, I've got a return call.
Made me tell you they always issue recalls, not always, but I mean, I can't tell you how many Friday afternoons they issue the recall. I'm like, what is it like, poor before on a Friday afternoon. Obviously it's a very active period for them. Who knows.
And I'm so impressed that they're still in the office and working hard at that time. So well done. Just I was so impressed with how responsive they were, even though it wasn't the solution I was looking for in this case.
You've got a response and helpful and if.
Only I'd had that response from the initial complaints, we wouldn't be having this conversation. So to be continued, because I think there is a lesson here to share with our listeners, Wendy, on what to do if this is happening to you from this business or any other business that refuses to honor your legal instruction to unsubscribe. So that's a topic for us to investigate for a future and.
The regulator has been known to issue press releases out in companies that have refused on a grand scale and you know, to stop and want sending unwanted.
And it worked in the case of for us if we go, I mean that was several years ago. There were a huge number of complaints absolutely test and it seems to have stopped happening. I have not been aware of that kind of complaint for Averent. I haven't had one for a very long time either.
It was a rash. So it's over.
That seems to be resolved here. Okay, Well, let's hope we can get this one resolved as well, and we'll let you know. Oh there's Jill saying I'm having exactly from town. Thank you for looking into it. Okay, Well, that's one definitely to add to the list to be investigated and we'll feedback. I think the bigger picture here, Wendy, is if anybody behaves in this way, it's what you do to make sure that they honor your legal instruction.
Also, if I was listening and I wanted to do business with DICKI Twana, I would go into a store. I would certainly not chop online and give them that personal information because.
You're for a marriage and it's quite hard to get divorced. Yes, yeah, Wendy Nola. Always great to have you with us. Thank you for all the work on behalf of our listeners, and we will chat again next week. With a reminder that if you want to log an issue on Wendy's platform, there is a contact form which she does look at. I promise it's on Wendy Nola dot co O dotz N. That's spelled k n O w l e R