before she was a meme, before she stared down, then President Trump in the White House, before she became arguably the most powerful woman in American political history. Nancy Pelosi was a San Francisco mother of five running for Congress for the first time. The point is, for 25 years I've been working to turn ideas and issues into public policy in Sacramento in Washington, D.C. Pelosi had been working for 25 years for democratic causes,
but as a volunteer and successful fundraiser, she had never held elected office. And her rivals in that 1987 special election in California's fifth congressional district, they were skeptical, to say the least. How can she relate to people like me, a single parent working mother? Why tell me, I like why you don't think she can. The first voice you heard, that is then San Francisco board of supervisors, member and congressional candidate Carol Ruth Silver. The woman trying
to break in, that's a 47 year old Nancy Pelosi. And that moment stands in stark contrast to this one, January 2007, when the mother from San Francisco made history as the first woman to become speaker of the house. For these children, our children and for all of America's children, the house will come to order. Consider this, Nancy Pelosi has spent the better part of four decades of massing power and using it to achieve her legislative goals. Now she's put pen to paper about how she did that.
From NPR, I'm Mary Louise Kelly. What would you like the power to do? Investing involves risk, Merrill Lynch, Pierce Fanner and Smith Incorporated, registered broker dealer, registered investment advisor, member SIPC. This message comes from NPR sponsor, SOTVA, maker of quality, handcrafted mattresses. Founder and CEO Ron Rutsen shares one of their core values. It's SOTVA we believe sleep does unlock a superpower. When you wake up and you're totally refreshed,
you go after things more. And it all starts with being on the right mattress. And that's what SOTVA has been inspired by from the day that we started. To learn more, go to SWATVA.com slash NPR. It's considered this from NPR. Speaker, Emerita of the House, Nancy Pelosi once told Washington Post columnist Karen Tummelty, quote, nobody ever gives away power. If you want to achieve that, you go for it, but when you get it, you must use it.
Well, that was 2020. And Nancy Pelosi used her power then. She's still using it. Most recently, to influence President Joe Biden's decision to end his campaign for re-election. More on that in a few minutes. Nancy Pelosi is also writing about power. In her new book, The Art of Power, my story as America's first woman speaker of the House. She stopped by NPR Studios recently to talk about the book and her career. We started with her rise to democratic
leadership. Nobody starts with power, including even you. You came to Congress in your late 40s. And then you decided pretty quickly that the way to do what you had come to do was you needed to get a position of leadership. I want you to take us to the moment. 2001, you have decided to throw your hat in the ring for Democratic whip. And all the men in the room looked at each other and said, who said she could run? Would you briefly tell us what happened?
Well, let me, if I just make first of all, well, to be here, love NPR. This book is not a memoir. It is just about four particular things, whether it's Iraq war, the tarp, the financial crisis, China, and again, issues that relate to places where I was in the room where it happened. Well, the theme seems to be how you wielded power as a woman who, the first woman to wield the gavel. But to put it in perspective, I had never intended to run for office. I was a volunteer
in politics. I loved doing that. I loved promoting other candidates, the causes of the Democratic Party. And then people encouraged me to run. And I thought, well, I've never expressed an interest. I'm not particularly ambitious in that regard. However, they said, you love the issues you should go. And I did. And then people said to me, you should run for leadership. I said, well, I'm here for the issues. I love what I'm doing. But then as we got on with their urging, I just really got
tired of losing. We lost in 94, 96, 98, 2000 came around. And I said, I think I know how to win these elections. I had to. Guess what I'm pushing on is the way you recount it in the book. This was not widely welcomed by a woman who had held power. And I'm curious what gave you the confidence to say, no, you get in line. We've been standing in line for 200 years. It's our turn. Well, it is interesting that in this, not that long ago, they were saying who said she could run.
And then they were saying, well, why don't the women just make a list of the things they want to do and give it to us? And we'll get those things done poor babies. I mean, it was like, Oh, so they were helpful if you just gave them the list. They would do it. They would do it. They would do it. Well, you know, but I said to the people then, I don't want you voting for me because I'm a woman. And I don't want you voting against me because I'm a woman. But I think
that I know how to win for a reason for the children. That's the only reason I left home the first time. Yeah. Speaking of children, you have five. And I do want to throw you a question about your mom. Speaking of women and power, your mom, how did she shape your understanding of what a woman could do, how she could wield power in a room? Well, my mother, I think if she had been another generation or two, God knows what she would have done. But she as other women of her
generation were more confined. My father was the politician. Well, he was the elected official. He was a longtime mayor of all times. She was, but a mom, seven kids. And I was the only girl, the youngest and the only girl. She was quite remarkable. And I was born into a family that was deeply Catholic. That first and foremost, we separate church and state. But the way we were raised, we had a responsibility for goodness to other people. So that was the value system. But I had never
had any intention of running for public office. None. True that your parents wanted you to be not speaker of the house, but a nun. My mother, my father, he didn't talk about that. But my mother, she wanted me to be a nun. She thought that would be just perfect. Did you ever think about it? No, no. It was lovely. And I love the nuns. And I owe them a great deal. And they say sometimes it's never too late. But it probably is by now. But it is, that was just a manifestation of our
faith and her protection. Before we move on from talking power and how to wield the power that you have, I do need to ask about recent events that are outside the scope of this book, including the moment last month. When you went on MSNBC's morning Joe and said this, it's up to the president to suicide if he is going to run. We're all encouraging him to make that decision because time is running short. Nancy Pelosi, he had made that decision. He'd just come out and told us, I'm in,
I'm running case closed. Your comments reopened the whole kettle of worms. Why'd you do it? Well, let me just say that it, I have the highest regard for Joe Biden. He is one of the great most consequential presidents of our time and certainly in our American history. And a personal friend? Well, I love him. I love him for over 40 years, he and his family. And his legacy is very important for our country. And his legacy is one we share because having the
majority for part of the time of his presidency. So it wasn't a question of his, it was a question of their deciding what kind of campaign would go forward. One of the reasons I ran for Congress this time was to make sure we won the House back and to make sure that Donald Trump never set foot in the White House again. But let me circle you back to this moment that I'm pushing you on. Why go on morning, Joe, which he's known to watch and reopen that door? Well, I went on morning,
Joe, that day because it was, that's a question they asked, but it wasn't why I was there. I was there because it was the NATO summit. But you knew they would ask. I know there'd be time. You know, you never know if there's going to be enough time, we were there to talk about what Russia was doing in Ukraine. My concern was not about whether he would run or not, but whether they would have the campaign that was necessary. And we wanted more visibility of him and the rest of it was not a
question at that time of whether he would run or not. It was a question of whether they would have the campaign that was necessary to win. To win. Because I think that the biggest danger to our country is that what's his name would be reelected president of the United States. That was my mission. What's his name being Donald Trump? Let me ask this question in a slightly different way.
You never called on Joe Biden to drop out. I know. I have talked to no one in this town in Washington who doesn't believe your fingerprints were on that decision and that you were the only one with the cloud to pull it off. Are those people wrong? These wrong. I'll tell you what I did not do. I did not call one person. I read in the press that I was burning up the phone lines and they called one person. People called me. Some of them I received their call. Some of them I didn't have
even time to. I never said put Michael Donald on the phone. Never. Have you spoken with president Biden since his decision to pull up? No. Well, not since his public decision. That's a week and a half ago. No, I had it. Speaker, a Marita of the House Nancy Pelosi, discussing her new book, The Art of Power. We also spoke to Speaker Pelosi about the Affordable Care Act, her Catholic faith, and whether Democrats share blame for the lack of consequences that Wall Street faced after the 2008
financial crisis, you can hear all that at npr.org. This episode was produced by Eric Orion. It was edited by Courtney Dorning. Our executive producer is Sammy Yinnig. It's considered this from NPR. I'm Mary Louise Kelly. New from the Embedded Podcast. Female athletes have always needed grit and talent. But for decades, they've also needed a certificate. There was a chat chat about, is that really a woman?
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