Okay, so Alexei, I want to talk about something that we sort of touched on this morning. And you might hate this, but I really want you to think about it. If you are killed, if this does happen. What message do you leave behind to the Russian people? Come on, damn it. No way. It's like you're making movies for the case of my death. Like, again, I'm ready to answer your question. But please let me let it be another movie, movie number two. Let's make a thriller out of this movie.
That's Russian opposition leader Alexei Navalny speaking with director Daniel Roer in the opening moments of the documentary, Navalny. Of course, that film was not a trailer for a second movie. Last year, it won the Oscar for best documentary. The film chronicled his final moments of freedom before he was imprisoned for the rest of his life. Out of Russia, we're getting reports that jailed Russian opposition leader Alexei Navalny is now dead.
Navalny's mother saw him Monday and said he was in good spirits. Yet somehow Alexei Navalny dropped dead suddenly at a penal colony in Siberia. People are angry, but they're also deeply sad and losing what they consider to be a beacon of democracy in Russia. By the time Navalny died in a Russian penal colony north of the Arctic Circle last February, he'd been a powerful opposition force in Russia for more than a decade.
During those years, Navalny chronicled government corruption on his blog and YouTube channel. He ran for mayor of Moscow and tried to challenge Putin for president in 2018. He was barred from running, but as he told Leslie Stahl on 60 minutes in 2017, he wouldn't let the Russian government intimidate him. You got out of prison just a couple of days ago. You held a rally right away. You're goading them. You're begging them to arrest you again.
These are people who are trying to steal my country. And I'm strongly disagree with it. I'm not going to be a kind of speechless person right now. I'm going to keep silent. In 2020, during a flight over Siberia, Navalny collapsed. That moment is captured in the documentary. It's believed that Navalny was poisoned with the nerve agent Novicek. He recovered from the attack in Germany and in early 2021, he returned to Moscow. We're almost immediately he was arrested.
In the final moments of the film, the Volny, Alexey gives a serious answer to the director's question about the risk he was taking. Alexey, if you are arrested and thrown in prison or being thinkable happens in your kill, what message do you lead behind the direction people? My message for the situation where I'm killed is very simple. Not give up. Consider this. Even in death, Alexey Navalny has not given up the fight against corruption in Russia.
He continues to challenge Vladimir Putin in his new posthumous memoir, Patriot. From NPR, I'm Ari Shapiro. This message comes from NPR sponsor, the Capital One Venture X-Card. Earn unlimited 2x miles on everything you buy. Plus, get access to a $300 annual credit for bookings through Capital One Travel. What's in your wallet? Terms apply. Details at capital1.com. This message comes from progressive insurance, where drivers who save by switching save nearly $750 on average.
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Try five pairs of frames at home for free. Go to WarbyParker.com slash covered. It's considered this from NPR. The Russian opposition leader, Alexei Navalny, wrote, if they do finally whack me, the book will be my memorial. Navalny is talking about Patriot, his memoir, which is being published posthumously.
And though his voice has fallen silent, his wife, Yulia Navalny is sharing his message. She now leads the movement her husband started fighting Russian President Vladimir Putin's grip on power. I spoke with her about her husband's work and her future. This memoir begins with a scene of Alexei on a plane, realizing that he has been poisoned with a nerve agent. And he had a long recovery in Germany, you were by his side, and then he made what might have been the most pivotal decision of his life.
He returned to Russia, where he was arrested at the border and imprisoned until his death. How do you think about that decision he made to return to his country? I understand that from other side, it looks like a strange decision, but I knew my husband for many years. I lived with him for many years, and I knew him very well. I knew that he would never do another decision. He wanted to be in Russia. He wanted to be with Russian people and his Russian supporters.
It was very important for him to come back and show that he doesn't afraid, that he wants to continue his fight, despite they poisoned him or not. I think many people will be surprised at how much his sense of humor comes through in this book, even in his very darkest moments. What do you think was the secret to his positivity? I think that it was a kind of his superpower, and if I would know the secret, unfortunately nobody knows.
That's why he was so popular. That's why people love him. That's why he had so many supporters. From one side, he was a leader of Russian opposition. He was serious politician, and you, of course, expect from serious politician. The men in the suit was tired. Of course, he was sometimes a student, but still he was and he wanted to be the ordinary guy from the next house. He was really funny. It's not about the book, it's about our life. I spent him with him more than 25 years.
All the time he was very funny, and he was very easy, and he loved a lot. During very difficult moments in our life, it helped a lot, and it gave a lot of strength. He talks about watching Rick and Morty, the animated show on airplane flights, while he's campaigning in this intense pressure cooker, even as he was being poisoned with the nerve agent. He was in the middle of an episode. He was. He loved Rick and Morty a lot.
He was a special episode, which he liked a lot about Smolk Yukumber. I'm sorry about it, because I really decided to watch it for a couple of times with him. Rick and Morty, so I'm not just, you know, I don't know a lot of details. The first half of the book is a traditional memoir, and the second half is a prison diary. As you read those pages that he wrote while he was in prison, what surprised you?
First of all, I knew about conditions in torturing conditions in which he was in prison, of course, during he was alive, because still it was very difficult, but we were able to exchange letters. That's why I knew much more. Nothing surprised me, because in these diaries, you can know really my husband, Alexena, only. It saw him, and from one side we can read about awful things which happened with him in prison, like hunger strike, and all these torturing things.
But from the other side, even during these days, he was very strong, but not just seriously strong. He loved his prison guards, he loved this situation, he loved it himself, and it was his special thing about him, and it was his special power, and I think that it helped him a lot in his life. He describes a moment during your first extended visit to him in prison, where he says to you, I don't want to sound dramatic, but I think there's a high probability I'll never get out of here.
Even if everything starts falling apart, he says they will bump me off at the first sign the regime is collapsing. What do you remember about that conversation? I remember a very long corridor, and we were walking one side in the bag along this corridor, and I remember this conversation.
I wanted to be supportive at this moment, as I told, we lived so many years together, so I knew him very well, and I didn't want to be sad, or to show him how scared I am with this situation, and that's why I wanted to be supportive. Also, I knew that in a couple of days I will be a reperson, and he will stay in prison. That's why despite he was a strong shoulder for me all of a life, but still it was very important at that moment that I need to be his shoulder.
There was nearly an agreement to free your husband in a prisoner swap. Do you allow yourself to think about how your life would be different today if that had gone through before he died? I like the way you ask me this question, that's very good words.
I was a little afraid to give these feelings to me, and it could be very difficult to come back from all these thoughts. That's why I never allowed myself, but still I want to say that I am very happy that this prison swap happened, and that innocent people who were fighting against Vladimir Putin's regime are freed. I like to talk about the way that your role has now changed, because as Time Magazine put it, you are no longer the first lady of the Russian opposition, but now it's figurehead.
Have you taken naturally to that new role, or has it been a difficult adjustment? I would prefer to be called the first lady of a position, or even more the wife of Alexey Navalny, and I felt myself very comfortable and very pleasant in this role. I would prefer it never changed. I don't know, it's difficult for me to answer you still if I feel comfortable or not. It's about that you feel that it's important to do this, so I'm just doing what I believe, and I am doing what I think.
Can you specify whether you are doing it for him or for your internal moral compass, or for your country, or what your motivation is for taking this on? For all the reasons, first of all, for my country, second for my children, and of course for memory of my husband as well. He describes your views as being more radical than his. Do you agree? Stop it, everybody is asking this question. It's like the most common question. He's the one who wrote it. Blame your late husband.
I blamed him while he was alive to say the truth, because it's not just written in the book he told several times before. I don't understand what he meant, and I think that I was more radical because I just cast politics with him on the kitchen, and it was much easier than... You say things in the kitchen that you might not say in a public speech. You asked me, my role has changed, so I don't think now I'm so radical. You have to be more diplomatic now, is that what you're saying?
Absolutely, of course. Tell me about what the goal of the movement is right now, because things in Russia have changed. Any dissent is immediately crushed when any public demonstrations take place, they are met with imprisonment. How do you even continue the work, especially from outside of the country? You're right, it's very difficult, and you absolutely right mention that everybody could be imprisoned for anything, like for the like in social media, or just post in social media.
Our organization is doing a lot to bring independent information to people in Russia. We have several very big YouTube channels, and I'm meeting with Hytovstates and I discuss with them the current situation in Russia. There are still a lot of people in Russia who I get the war, who I get Putin's regime, and they still need a kind of support in any way.
They are living on the dictatorship, they understand that they could be imprisoned for anything any moment, and of course we need to motivate them and to help in any way we can. The last question I'd love to ask you. This book includes a collection of photographs, and there is Alexa giving speeches and marching in the streets and debating other politicians, but I want to ask you about one joyous photograph that shows you and him and your two children jumping off the top of a sand dune.
Was there ever a scenario where the four of you could have had just a simple life more like that, not about a higher purpose or a struggle against a great power, just focused on fun times with your family? In my dreams, I thought that we'll be retired sitting around our grandchildren, but life has taken another path. And I know why it happened. I just knew my husband here was the person who wanted to fight till his last day, and it was very important for him.
Julia Navalnaia, thank you so much for talking with us. This episode was produced by Michael Levit. It was edited by Courtney Dorning. Our executive producer is Sammy Yennegan. And one more thing before we go, you can now enjoy the Consider This newsletter. You can sign up at npr.org slash consider this newsletter. It's consider this from NPR.
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