EP 132 More than a Foursome

He and I were in the middle of like a a deep conversation that we were discussing things and where our life is headed and his phone rings next to him and he goes, sorry, I'm gonna take this and it was hers. So let's get to it. The conversations you are about to hear are intended for mature audiences. Listener discretion is advised. So dirty talk, so sex talk. It started off as dirty. See my partner. And you can find it. Does he know you have a Would Lena win?

My guests today are a man and woman, both in the lifestyle. Married to other people. Kind of here as a couple today. I don't know. It's a little confusing. So let's try to get to the bottom of what's going on here. We've got Andy, who's 52 in sales. Uh his wife is in education. They've been married for six years, been together for ten years. They've been in the lifestyle eight years. Part one. Part two. Elle is with them. She and her husband, Dave, have been together 30 years, married for 28.

Wow, she's an event planner in a very uh vanilla associated field. And uh they've been at the lifestyle for twenty years. Boy, you guys bring a lot of experience and a lot of moving parts to the story. Andy and Elle, welcome to the show. D are you guys d uh do you guys do you guys play together? Yes. Well well the f the four of us don't too much. Uh it's it for the most part, uh the only time that we have together as the four of us was the first night that we met.

Oh. But then beyond that, uh in the time that we've been together, it has pretty much always been L and I and then Dave and M and Amanda. Okay. So let me get this straight. Two couples, so you've like swapped Yes. And and but it's kinda like a relationship too.

It's funny that you call us in the lifestyle because I'd say kind of a little now we're out of the lifestyle. Um when we originally met, it was to be in the lifestyle and find other partners to have fun sex with. my husband one of his rules was just don't fall in love. That kind of quickly went out the window in this situation. And within a few weeks of meeting one another and having the kind of connection that we did, Andy and I would text

every day. Amanda and Dave would text every day and we were getting ready to meet them for drinks one night and I said, Yeah, I just need to tell you there's no way this connection is gonna stay like this and there's not gonna be emotion. We're gonna fall in love. And my husband did not freak out and he did not throw the brakes on the situation and he did not say, Yeah, we're getting the hell outta here. He just said, Yeah, I can see that happening and it's not gonna stop.

So wow. So yes, I would say now we are couples who are happily married to our spouses and we're boyfriend and girlfriend and boyfriend and girlfriend. Uh and in love. And in love. All four of us with all three of the other people and across in every direction and yeah.

Wow. You're like, I don't know. Have you guys been in Beverly Hills? There are these intersections where like the lights, like all the cars have to stop and all the people can cross in all different directions like at the same time. It's you like that. You're like a Beverly Hills intersection. Yeah.

Romantic love between me and Dave and me and Andy. Uh Amanda and I don't have romantic love, but we do love each other. And it's the same with the guys. They have a loving relationship towards one another, but not romantic love. Mm. Okay. I can't wait to Okay.

So the first time you met, it was like many others where, you know, you're swingers and you're out meeting another couple, right? Yeah. Yeah, I I reached out to Elle. She she responded within a day. We started chatting. The the first time we met then in person was a couple of weeks later. So we had spent those couple of weeks, her and I in particular, getting to know one another. At the same time, Amanda and Dave also started texting and getting to know one another. And

by the time we met then two weeks later in person, Ella had told me that she had never slept with anybody the first time that she met somebody in person. And two hours after meeting, we were meeting or got in a room and we were all together. Okay.

But hold on a second. Could I um and and I know that sometimes you can't plan things, but I'm sure that you guys talk, especially having experience, both of you in the lifestyle, was there the intention of like a group thing or Or Or was the intention just to do full swap?

No, the int so Amanda and I are both bi. So the intention was, hey, here's another couple. We find them physically attractive. They find us physically attractive. We could do all the mix and matches. We could do girl on girl. We could do each guy gets two girls, each girl gets two guys, we could do the force and we could do the yeah, I mean, the way that we were in it could run the gambit. Um, I find both Andy and Amanda to be attractive people.

She finds David and I'd both be interested in people. So Yeah, we thought we could have it all and then none of that has happened. Literally the only exchange aside from we have been in the same rooms when we vacationed together and had moments with our boyfriend, girlfriend is she and I kissed once for like five seconds just'cause Andy wanted to see it and it was nice. It was lovely. Um it's just

We've figured out that we're so connected to the other person's spouse that we're having fun building that relationship. And it's like creating a new relationship with somebody, but still holding on to the relationship you already have.

Okay, so if the intention was just to like have at it, even on the first time uh being intimate with the group you guys didn't do that? I don't know if we necessarily had the intent of all of us doing something together in that that dynamic uh that evening. like Elle said it it was the intent at some point. When we first started talking, it was you know, I think we were we both made the comment to each other, We'd be great if this worked out and we could see each other once a month and

We we see each other almost every day or every other day at this point. And um yeah, that first night it was just A great connection. We went to dinner. It was easy. The communication was easy.

We all had things in common. Dave and I were from as we talked that evening we found out we were almost from the same hometown. He grew up like ten miles away from where I grew up. And so we were both familiar with some of the same places. And As the evening went along, it became clear that we wanted to go and be together and spend some time together outside of the restaurant, but I think we we were just happy being able to explore the time with each other and not as a foresome and

There have been times where we have talked about wanting to Wanting to watch each other and yet It's one of those things, well, you know, if it happens, great. If it doesn't, it's not really our focus at this point. Elle and I are the talkers in the group and Dave and Amanda are not. And so Elle and I can sit and talk for hours and They enjoy spending their time together and they'll be quiet. And um so we can we can also spend time together and not have the sexual dynamic. And yet.

We all enjoy spending time together as a forcing as well. We you know, we we involve our families here at this point as well. We've we've had game nights with families, we've had dinners together as families, we've scheduled uh spring break here in a couple of months together as two families. And so But do but do the other people in the family know what's going on? No. No. They're...

we have minor children and they don't need to be knowledgeable about their parents' sexuality or what their parents do. But the the kids definitely see that the husband from one couple and the wife from the other couple and vice versa. have more of the connection. They know that I talk on the phone more with Andy than I do Amanda and they know that Amanda and Dave talk on the phone more with each other. And the kids don't really seem to question it. That's just

The they uh they see because when they see the four of us together, they see the dynamic. They see that Andy and I are very similar people. And have the same interests and then they see the other two. And so yeah, it to the kids it just seems normal. But in terms of the fact that

that there's any sex crossing over that they get to be shielded from. They don't need to know. But they have heard us say, I love you. Like my kids hear me talk on the phone and they know that I'm talking to Andy and I'll be like, I love you. Bye. Okay. Yeah. Um so that all sounds very lovely. Uh do you mind going back to this first night? Sure. It was fun.

Well like it was a nice dinner and then you decide, well let's not do it all here at the restaurant and you leave, what happens? Well, I'll go back to mine that you s he said in the beginning about me. in all those years of like on again, off again being in the lifestyle, I have never met a person and slept with a person on the same night. There's always been dinner or drinks or get to know you.

Not like I'm more of a personality person, so it's not just rip your clothes off kind of thing. Right. Um So they knew that going in, but then between the conversations, I don't remember Andy, who was it? Was it Dave that said what happens if we all just hit it off? Do we then get a hotel room?

Yeah, that was I think like the day before or a couple of days before we actually met. I think we all recognized that there was some connection and and that there was the possibility that that might happen, yes. Okay. So yeah, we're in the restaurant, brief dinner, some beers, and then they ask if we're ready for the bill and um Andy says, I got it and Dave said, You get the check, I get the hotel.

And next thing we're walking out to the car and this is what I love about Amanda is that she's the quiet one. Um, she doesn't use words a lot, but that woman knows how to make things happen when she wants to have it happen. So we're walking out of the restaurant and she follows Dave to his car and she's getting in his car and I'm like, Yes, I get to go be in Andy's car with him. The funniest thing is I had leftovers that I wanted to keep.

And we had gotten in the car and I said to him, Will you walk this over to our Jeep so that I don't forget I'm in your car? And he walked over and he comes back chuckling and he's like, Yeah, they're already making out in the car over there. And I said, Oh, nice. And he goes to put his seatbelt on and I lean across the console and I go, Seriously, they're making out over there and you're not gonna give me my first kiss So yeah, I kinda attacked him in the driver's seat and got a kiss out of him.

Wow. And then fifteen minutes later we were at the hotel. One room or two rooms? Okay. But the funny thing was So Amanda and Dave went in to get the room. And they're standing at the counter and they out loud on the phone to us ask in front of the hotel clerk, so are we getting one room or two? Cracking up in the car, like, Well, that's not subtle. So, um

Because we're the talkers, they told us what room we were in. We were in the car talking for a minute and then I'm like, so are we gonna go in? And um Andy was like, Yeah, sure. And by the time we get to the door to knock on the door, Dave is already shirtless. Amanda's already shirtless. Yeah, they were not wait they don't talk. They like just Do they do. They do. Yeah. They're not talkers. So yeah. So you get to the room. You get to the room and they're already like Half dressed.

Then they didn't there was no pleasantry greetings chatting. They just went back to what they were doing and like, there's your bed and so yeah. Uh oh, so two two beds. Two beds. Yeah. And there was no mix and match that night at all. There was Dave and Amanda were together in one bed and Andy and I were to b together in another bed. So you were like balls to the wall full swap. Yeah. So swap.

Okay. Um, and it's not like you guys haven't seen or done that before, right? Was there something different though? Like that night there wasn't anything different. I think one of the things for me is the conversation. We find that a lot of other people in the lifestyle there wasn't all that texting and that building and that personality getting to know you. It was basically just getting together for sex and then we'll text you when we want to get together for sex again.

So we had already had two weeks of the couples crossing over, communicating with one another. So that's why it felt so comfortable. Yeah, and I I think our situation, even though we hadn't been in the lifestyle as long, Amanda and I W but it was not something that we were doing every week or on a regular basis. It was very sporadic here and there. And and most of our experiences during that time were house parties or a couple of meet and greets here and there and then

Um and then just meeting people through typically through SLS and then and then you know, get together and most of the time we would never see them again. I think we had We had always wanted to have that friends with benefits type of relationship and we talked about that but Right. Yeah. And it it it it was you know, I think I and I've told El this too that just before we all met

I was almost to the point here where I was just about ready to give up. It it just didn't seem like that that part was going to happen and it wasn't like it wasn't something like w we we we wanted that, um, or else. It just in this particular case there just There was a connection immediately, I felt and the communication was fantastic and then Wait, hold hold on. How was the sex? How was the sex? Okay. was great. She's such a good talker. He communicates very well. Yeah.

The truth of the matter is, and and this is just the reality for most people, there's some nerves there. There's some nerves that you have to overcome. Plus you're learning a new partner and the whole nine yards. One of do you wanna tell her what your favorite story from that night is of what I did that you loved? I I'm not a performer in front of an audience necessarily and so even though my wife and Dave are next to us, I I I still have those nerves for meeting the first time and then

And then just having people next to me as well. I I I prefer probably to be separate rooms and so uh in dealing with the nerves from that and ne and dealing with the nerves of meeting somebody new and and all of that. That was very uh very good to me as far as taking care of my nerves, putting me at ease. And um I made sure that she got off at some point during that evening. And she helped me do that because at some point she said to me, Are you left-handed or right-handed?

I had never been asked that question before. I I I told her and she uh situated herself on the bed so that I could accommodate her and take care of her. And and I I I that was to me that was just a huge turn on. I I I enjoyed that. Um, what is the conversation like with your own spouses when it's all over?

That night, I think we well, at least for me, we got in our Jeep and we drove away and I'm like, I really like that couple. I would like to see them again. And he's like, Yeah, I would definitely be down with that. I It was the same. And an eye as well.

Um, one of the other things we've dealt with in the lifestyle, like so I'm the type that likes to emotionally or intellectually be turned on. It's not just a physical thing for me. So the fact that we had such good conversation and he knew things about me and

we were able to communicate and made it be a far bigger turn on for me. Um so that was helpful. So we find that there's just people not very communicative. They really just are like, wham bam, thank you, ma'am. And if that's your thing, that's your thing, but it's kinda not my thing. Um and the other thing is there's a lot of flaky people in the lifestyle. Like there's a lot of

Let's plan, let's plan, let's plan, and then no shows or ghosting or and it's like, come on, we are like middle aged people. Would you stop acting like you're eighteen? Just If you're not interested, you're not interested, but be up front. Like be honest about what it is. So no, I think the conversation when we left was like, yeah, let's do more of this.

Mm-hmm. Uh sounds like you guys found that thing that I hear some people describe as uh the four way lightning in a bottle thing. Find another couple where you're equally attracted to each other. Yeah. Um, and it's funny because when Andy reached out to me, I have a single profile on SLS and my husband had one too, and we had one as a couple. I was on there as a unicorn.

Really, this is the more mythical creature than the unicorn: is that you can have a four-way connection of four people that get along. Even vanilla. that we've been longing for couples as vanilla to find where you equally like hanging out with the husband and the wife, like either the wife is kinda nagging and bitchy for lack of a nicer word, and the man or the man is kind of an obnoxious asshole. Like you just can't find

Couples where two couples get along and you all four enjoy, but we do all four enjoy. I mean, we're playing Monopoly with our children at this point. Like we must really enjoy each other's company. So Yeah.

Very nice. So how long has this been going on now? We started talking uh through messages in September, this past September, and then met for the first time in October. Okay, so you guys are still in the honeymoon stage. We are. Yeah. And I think we would we recognize that as well, yeah. Uh just a few weeks in, less than six weeks in, we all went away for the night, but separate rooms with

The other couple, like Andy got to spend the whole night in a hotel room with me and Amanda and Dave got to spend the whole night in a hotel room. We just did that for one night. Then after that, like a week after that, we planned five nights, six days away over New Year's. to travel from we live in the Midwest and we travel to the South, just us as couples, and every night we spent with the person that was not our spouse.

Um so um and then like we have spring break. Dave comes over to their house and like handyman fixes stuff. And Andy has come over to my house and like done his work for a day and been in my house. doing all his work while I'm doing housework and things like that. So it's settled into what normal couples do too. Uh w well, except that you're with people other than your spouses. Correct. So as a foresome What all have you guys taken part in? Clearly the full swap. Sexually, nothing else.

Oh nothing. Yeah. We haven't I haven't done anything sexually with Um, I have done quite a bit in the lifestyle, but I have yet to have the male, female, male threesome and that's kind of been a thing, but we haven't done that because

we're so focused on building those relationships in the other way that we just haven't done the mix and match thing yet. There's talk about it, there's like fantasy about it. There's maybe there's like who's gonna go first in getting the thing that they want. But right now we're kind of Happy building the other part.

So you're in exclusive relationships with people other than your spouses. You guys aren't really looking for anyone else, right? No, at this point we're not. And I that was that was a little bit of a struggle for me too at the beginning of this as we as as Elle and I started to to fall in love and recognize that that was taking place.

And then as we communicated that to our to our spouses as well. It's funny we we've had this conversation a couple of times where W when my wife and I first got into the lifestyle, as I'd mentioned before, we we had only been together for about a year and and I had no jealousy issues at all going and doing things in the lifestyle, watching her with with other people, with other men, other women.

N none of that bothered me. And as we as we started to get into this relationship, I mentioned to Elle pretty early. I'm not sure that I'm comfortable with us not being exclusive and and I wasn't sure how she was going to respond to that. I wasn't not only was I not sure how she was gonna respond to that, I wasn't sure how my wife was going to respond or her husband. And And so it was it was difficult to bring that up. And I think there's still there's still times where I I'm a little um

I I I jealous I guess with her and I I don't know why that is and why I feel that towards her than I that I don't with my wife. It's it's kind of an odd dynamic for me at times. Mm-hmm. I've I've heard I've heard someone else talk about that actually. So that's very, very interesting. I was gonna ask if you wanted people to get in touch with you, but you guys aren't looking. You guys are taken! We are We're off the market. Yeah. We're off the market.

That's pretty incredible. Um and It sounds like everything that you guys are feeling, everything you guys are describing on your end in your relationship is kind of the same thing that's going on with your spouses. Yeah. Um they they used the expression multiple times in the beginning when this was happening, like

back October, November, that they were two weeks behind us. They're like, whoa whoa, they called us freight trains. They're like, you two are like freight trains. And we're like two weeks behind you. Well a lot of that's'cause we just communicate a whole lot more than the two of them do, but no it's It's gone. And it's funny for me because I just had this conversation with Dave last night. watching him fall in love as the outsider rather than when I was in the middle of it'cause

Until her, I was the only woman that he had ever told I love you too, because we met when I was 19 and he was 20 and he had never had a girlfriend before me. He had dated and he had had sexual partners, but he had never had a relationship. And so I'm watching him be in a relationship with another woman and it it's funny because I joked last night. I said I I think you might love her more than you love me and he's like, Why is that? And it

Like he doesn't have the baggage of me and the turmoil of me and things like that. But he and I were in the middle of like a a deep conversation that we were discussing things and where our life is headed. And his phone rings next to him and he goes, Sorry, I'm gonna take this and it was her. So he stopped having a conversation with me.

to have a cute little adorable phone call with Amanda. And the truth of the matter is that did not bother me in the least. It did not upset me. There was no concern there. It's kind of fun I have compersion and Andy has compersion. I don't feel I know that Dave doesn't and I don't think Amanda has that compersion feeling either. But for me to watch the person that I have loved for thirty years Have love and give love is fun and exciting and it feels good.

If you didn't find this awesome connection with Andy Do you think you'd still be okay with with what the husband's doing and feeling? The four of us have had that conversation just that we have to do it.

uh you know, how challenging this would be for each of the two couples if the other couple wasn't feeling the same thing. I think there probably would have been an exit ramp at some point for for the two of us, for my wife and I, if if that hadn't been the case because I don't think I could have put her in that position where I'm falling in love with somebody else and she is not and I had this connection and and she does not again it was just

Magic. You guys found magic. Yeah, I I hate to be hate to use a cliche, Lena, but there you go. And I think I think if Dave when I told him initially I don't think I can keep connecting with this guy and not have emotions be involved in it. He didn't run for the hills and he's not an emotions guy. So it tells me that he was having feelings too, that he was like, ooh, that's happening that way. So

every rule that we had in the lifestyle has totally gone out the window. And also I have seen Dave become kind of a different person. Like his personality is changing in ways that I find Lovely and beautiful, and he's kind of letting go of things that he used to have a tight little hold on. And he's just like, Oh, yep, that's gone. So

How how is the sex with your spouses now? Different? Same? Still good? Um different for me in that um Dave and I used to have sex probably minimum three times a week, sometimes more. And now it's like to one time a week, maybe, because He's getting a lot of that need met elsewhere and that's just how we're spending our time. But like the sex is still good, it's just less because you're getting sex more elsewhere. But it doesn't feel like a physical disconnect.

Andy, how's how Andy, how's your sex life with Amanda? Yeah, I I I would I think I probably would uh would would echo that same feeling. I think it's actually it it I think it's actually improved our sex life to some degree that Um we were not we were not two, three, four times a week before. But the times that we have

Now, um I think we enjoy ourselves just as much, if not more, than we had before. So it it definitely has not hurt our sex life at all. And I like the fact that she is getting her needs met through somebody else that that not only, you know, has that kind of an attraction for her, but also cares about her and has a deep emotional connection with her.

Mm-hmm. How about on the emotional side? Uh El, you touched on this a little bit ago, kind of jokingly, but there has to be some kind of concern at some point that Do I love this person more than I love my spouse? Or does my spouse love that person more than he loves me? The emotional part, that's the thing for Andy and I that is so strong is both of us are very emotional people. And both of us are very We call it um verbal vomiting. Like we just have to talk everything out and express all

Yeah. All really hot. Um, all of our emotions we wanna have out there on the table and we wanna express and we wanna be open and we wanna be vulnerable. And Amanda and Dave are the exact opposite. And the word that they use is, sorry, we need to take a minute to process that and then they process while Andy and I are just like, We're not processing, we're letting it all hang out. So

Yeah, the emotional connection. I'm getting certain emotional needs and words of affirmation is my love language and Dave is not super great with words. He's kind of an action kind of guy, but Andy gives me all the words. all the time and then I'm feeling that like buckets of love from the words of affirmation.

But then Dave and Amanda have the same chemistry the other way. They like the more peace and calm and doing the thing and then they just get to be with each other without having to deal with the intensity of Andy and I. And so emotionally Yeah, the opposite spouse. is the better connection there. But that doesn't necessarily mean that we love the person more. It just means that there seems to be a better emotional it's different. Yeah. Yeah.

I yeah, that's the phrase that we've actually my wife and I've used too, is it's it's and I've I said that to to Elliot actually here earlier today. It's it's not a matter of love more of one person, it's different. Plus like you said, we're in the honeymoon phase, so it's the excitement of it. New new uh new relationship energy, right?

Yeah. Yeah. But like across the board, like I asked Dave last night, what is it that you hope from me for a relationship in the future? And he says, I'm content with you and you're comfortable.

And like some people would be like, Oh my gosh, I don't want my spouse to just be content with me. That's horrible. No, I love that there's some comfort that we've been together for thirty years and that he knows that I'm always gonna be there and that He's a really good friend to me. And we're talking about the future and being together as couples for the long haul, forever.

And how does that work? Like there's no manual on this. There's probably very few couples that have found poly this way. And Yeah, how does that look? Is it possible? Can it happen? What are we gonna do? We we might need to write an instruction book ourselves because Everyone has an instruction manual out there. Yeah. But it's working. I mean now it's working. Yeah.

Andy and L, thanks for sharing your story. Wishing you guys lots of luck and love. If you'd like to get in touch with this foursome, you can email them. Our happy the number4esome at gmail.com. And if you'd like to be a guest on the show, just go to Adultshow.com and Form so we can get in touch. And follow me on social media. We're on Twitter at LenaWinTV. And we'll see you next time on Consenting Adults.