Hello and welcome to Connected Episode 502. It's made possible this week by our sponsors Jam, Squarespace and Tailscale. My name is Stephen Hackett and I'm joined by Mr. Federico Vitegee. Hello Stephen, how are you? I'm good, how are you? I'm doing fantastic. I have an iPad Pro that arrived today, been playing with it. It's great. We can talk about it. Yeah. And I also wanted to point out that in 10 episodes, it'll be connected 512. I know. Yeah.
It's pretty special. We got a taste of that this week because even though they started after us, upgrade past us some time ago in episode numbers. Yeah, because Jason used to never go on vacation. That's right. I think. Yeah. And like we take the week off between Christmas and New Year's and they don't. So upgrade episode 512 was on Monday and don't tell Mike. But apparently Jason thought he needed both connected hosts to replace Mike, which
it's the only way we can be taller than him if we combine together. Like you sitting on my shoulders. Like we can ask who's the base. You know, who's? Yeah, I'm the base. I'm the base. You're above we can find a really long French coat or something. Perfect. Yeah. Yeah. Maybe at WBC, which isn't a month, by the way, maybe we just strolling to Apple Park that way. You think security would notice. I don't think so. I don't think so. Maybe the dogs though. The dogs maybe
will notice us. Hey, so you try to fold us into a golf cart and it's like, you know, that we're uncomfortable for me as the base. But I got a long way to fall, you know, but we're 12 feet tall together. Yeah. So I just listened to upgrade 512. That was a really good conversation and I also recommend the pro show because you guys talk about iPods. And I thought that was funny. Yeah. Yeah. The week of new iPads is like, hey, you know what we need to do for
members? iPods iPods. So yes. Yeah, go check it out. It was it's so much fun. I think you feel the same way. You and I don't get to talk with Jason about tech very often like in public. And so it's always fun to get to do that. Yes. I agree. Several people have asked me about my social media username problem where I'm high, some H86 in some places. Are you still? I guess I'm in 86. Still am. Okay. So I don't have a new
user name yet. I'm still kind of looking at some things. Have you asked Mary for advice? No. I don't I think she would say I don't care. Interesting. Interesting. But or maybe she has good advice. I mean, I should ask her. She has good advice on many things. Many many. Almost basically everything. Yeah. So I mean, she probably has opinions about user names. I should ask her. And so I haven't done it yet because I haven't settled on it. But I was looking at Macedon
because I realized I don't know how you change your username and Macedon. I figure you just go to your profile and change it. Right. You can't. You cannot change your username or Macedon. You have to create a new account and then migrate your followers and content over to it. Nice. Perfect. Fediverse. No notes. What do you do in Macedon? It's hey, you don't argue with Federation. It is what it is. You know, it's sure you want to be part of you want to be part of
the 30 verse. You cannot change your username. And it's, you know, it's it is what it is. I wanted to I wanted to point out some really important feedback regarding the Tich Italian segment from listener Joanne Malmstrom. Joanne mentioned connected on Macedon saying is the Italian have picked up and connected enough to make it around Rome. Well, it's enough to buy a bus ticket at least thanks to an old lady and Graziemi Le Vittici. So I'm just, you know, I'm just doing my best.
I'm providing a service for people who need to buy bus tickets in Rome. And Joanne also helpfully posted a photo evidence after this post just standing by one of the bus stops for the bus company in Rome called ATTAC as you can see from the photo. Yeah, this is a not my neighborhood. Also, Joanne is wearing lovely rectives T-shirt. And yeah, you're welcome, Joanne. Please, that you were able to ask the old lady for some basic advice on how to buy a bus ticket.
Yeah. Really, the old lady was doing the heavy lifting, not us. Yeah, would have asked me. I would have told you that most people don't buy bus tickets in Rome Italy, but it's not what you're supposed to do. So you've done what you're, you know, you've done a good thing in actually buying a bus ticket. What do most people do? Steel, the ride. Oh, no. Yeah, yeah, it's bad. It's public transport in Rome, much to be improved in terms of security and, you know, actually checking whether people
have tickets or not. Yeah, yeah. It leaves much to be desired is what I'll say. Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Today marks a global accessibility awareness day. And as has been their tradition and now, you know, I guess for several years, Apple has made some announcements of accessibility features coming later this year. So, you know, this will be suddenly part of the iOS 18 macOS, whatever that that cycle. So there's a newsroom article,
and then over on Mac stories, you all broke it down. There's a lot of stuff here. We're not going to have time to go through it all in depth. But the one that jumped out at me is vehicle motion cues. Mm-hmm. Why? So, because I get motion sick really badly in the car. Like, I can use my phone if I'm riding, but not for very long. And they are adding animated dots to the screen that represent changes in vehicle motion. And that helps your brain.
Because motion sickness is basically what you see and what you feel don't line up. And the answer is, I guess I'm going to throw up. And these dots like help your brain realize that help you see the motion that you feel in your body. It can be set automatically show up, or it can be turned on and off in control center. That is when I'm very excited about trying personally. Have you ever stopped thinking about like how the human body in so many different
scenarios, the default solution is, well, I guess I'm just going to throw up. That's true. Yeah. It's a baseline approach to dealing with things. I guess, yeah, you got to, you know, speaking from a room of people. Yeah, I mean, why? Why is that? Like, they should have thought of something else. Yeah. And I can just get like cold, you know, like, yeah, I mean, literally anything else in terms of like feedback. Like, why did they have to be throwing up? You know,
anyway, yes, this is a really cool feature. And this is going to be built to be built to riding to CarPlay, I think also. Yeah. CarPlay has a lot of stuff going on. So they're going to bring some of the more standard stuff like voice control and color filters over. They're also going to bring a sound recognition, which is part of the Apple ecosystem. Now, like you can set a home pod up to send you a notification if it has a smoke alarm. But now in CarPlay, you can have
a notification saying like, Oh, your phone hears a siren or a car horn. So if you can't hear it, it can alert you that, Hey, maybe you're getting pulled over or maybe there's an ambulance behind you. Be aware, super cool stuff in CarPlay. Yeah. I wanted to mention the eye tracking, which I think is really interesting. So this has been framed as part of obviously part of the new accessibility features coming to iPhone and iPad. And it seems like using a combination of the
built like the built in front facing camera and some on device, the same machine learning. I'm sure I'm sure WWC will say AI. But using a combination of the camera and a calibration process, based on a machine learning model, you will be able to control the iOS and iPad OS UI using your eyes. So using eye tracking, very similar to vision OS, I mean, as a concept, but doesn't require,
of course, wearing a headset. And it seems like you will be able to also use the dual control, which allows you to basically look at something and hold your gaze for a second to select that item. So imagine like you're looking at a button, you look at it for a second and the button is clicked. I think that is a really incredible feature if this actually works well. And it really takes like controlling iPhones and iPads for people with disabilities to the next level. Like just eye
tracking, built into a tablet or a phone that works in tandem with the UI. That sounds really wild. It's awesome. The last one I'll mention is listening for a typical speech. So people with, oh yeah, with some situations like ALS or maybe they've had a stroke or several pauses, something like that, they may have different speech patterns. And Apple has done work for its speech recognition software across the ecosystem to be tuned more for those sorts of people.
And I see that in my own household. I've got a child who stutters. And sometimes the home pod kind of gives up and while waiting for our son to finish speaking. And stuttering is not called out in the press release specifically, but it is going to be something that I look for when this stuff ships. But I just I love how broad Apple is getting with this or thinking about people with all sorts of situations that they're in. And it's all really cool and all coming later
this year. There's even stuff for Vision OS in here. We don't have time to talk about. But lots of great stuff. Yeah. And I believe that the typical speech is something that a friend of the show Stephen Aquino has mentioned multiple times over the years. Like, all people with all kinds of ranges of speech should be able to interact with assistants like Siri or dictation for that matter. Right. And so yeah, I'm going to I'm curious to see if Apple
will also accommodate for stuttering with this one. And I also wanted to mention before we move on in the same range of speech related features, this vocal shortcuts functionality that basically will allow you to and the best way that I can understand it. John O.T.J. got some details behind the scenes, but my understanding is that this is like this feature will allow you to effectively set up a custom phrase for a shortcut without having to say, hey, assistant. So and the OS will continuously
listen for that phrase. So imagine like recording a phrase that says Apple frames, right. And I can just say that and my iPad or iPhone will always be listening for that phrase. Now, obviously, you want to be, you know, we'll need to test this and you know, it's not like you can set up all kinds of phrases and suddenly your iPad is always going off running the shortcut, but pretty cool regardless. And yeah, I think Apple is doing some really interesting things this year.
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You and I have both had our hands on iPad Pros now. I went to my Apple store this morning when they opened. Okay. Quite a few people there actually. Interesting. Really. Way more the iPads. Just look at the iPads. Way more the Vision Pro day. Well, noticeably more people. Is that a surprise? No. Did you see the report that I think it was on Bloomberg that Sam Apple stores in the US are only selling like two units per week? I mean, Jam.pro. I believe it. Again, I would my store. They
had three demo tables and now it's just down to one. Just back in the corner of the store with nothing on it. Yeah. But anyway, so you went there quite a few people checking out the iPads. Quite a few people. They had a bunch of iPad Pros check out a bunch of accessories. I will say, I mean, they're both definitely thinner. That 13 inch is hard to believe. Like the greater surface area of the thinness. I'm not a 13 inch iPad person, but if I was, I'd be very excited
about this thing. Yeah. And I am once again, because I because of the thinness and because of the weight. And it's not just the thinness and the weight in sort of in isolation. It's the two things combined. Because I really do think that the thinness and the 13 inch sort of surface and how weight is distributed, that iPad feels, even though it's not, but it feels lighter somehow than the 11. Like, I don't know, maybe it's just my brain being easily fooled. I have no idea. But it does feel
like so much easier to hold them before. And yeah, and I thought, well, now it's the time to go back to the 13, especially because it's going to be more visually balanced as a Macpad, which you know, it's the first thing I did actually. Oh, I know. I got the picture. You got the picture. You saw the picture. And I'm actually working on something else. We'll see if I can get it to work. But yeah, did you try the pencil pro? Steven, I did not get chance to try the pencil pro. I don't
know. They had a couple, not all the models on the floor had a pencil on them. I guess, because pencils are easy to steal. But I did get to spend some time with the new Magic Keyboard and Trackpad. And it really seems like a great improvement over the old one, which I like. The old one I think was pretty good too. Definitely lighter, the aluminum on the inside. Like, it feels like a little Macbook. It's kind of weird that it's still rubbery on the outside. And I do wonder about
the longevity of that. Is that rubber disclude on the bottom of the aluminum? Apple had a MacBook once it was like that. And basically the bottoms all peeled off. Like, hopefully they got that solve now. They did. There was a MacBook like that. Really? Yes. It was the white MacBook in like 2008. It was the one that was had rounded corners. But it was still plastic. Yeah. And so it peeled off. A bunch of them peeled off. 2008, 2009. And in that range. So I'm not saying this is going to
happen with this, but it just kind of reminded me of that. I will say, though, and the pictures of this online, there's like three or four different designs of Apple pencil pro boxes. And they all have their own artwork on them. And that's really fun. Like, I think that's. Yeah, it is. It's cool. I got the blue one that it says pro. And it's all like a fancy lettering. Yeah. Two more questions for you. Did you see the nanotexure display?
I did not see the nanotexure display. I'm not sure there was one out. You know, I'm in a smaller store than, you know, I'm in a flagship store. But also, there were a lot of people around the iPad tables. And I it was pretty crowded. So I don't know if there was one out there or not to be honest with you. I'll have to try again. And my other question is, did you walk out the Apple store with an iPad? Yeah. Silver 11th with the keyboard.
Okay. I like care to explain. I just was overcome by the thinness. Okay. Okay. Where are you planning on it? Not really. I mean, okay. So you woke up this morning. You're like, I'm going to do the Apple store. But did you have the thought somewhere in your brain of like, hey, maybe I'll buy one? Yeah. I did. No. Okay. I do really like the mini. I don't think this would replace the mini for me in some use cases. But there are times where I'm in meetings for stuff non-work related
that I don't want to take my MacBook Pro. And the iPad's a pretty good fit. And with the keyboard, that'd be nice. So we're going to see. I'm not committing to keeping it. But it's the 11th silver. The space black still not dark enough for me. So I did silver with the white keyboard. So we'll see if that was a mistake. I'll see how this thing looks. But it's transferring stuff for my iPad mini right now. Nice. Nice. Do you think this could replace your iPad? Not just for meetings.
I like it. Like you just mentioned, but like as a media tablet. I think it could. The thing that I like about the iPad mini, you know, it's I wrote it on the blog forever ago. I with the with the peak design stuff kind of built like a bike pad where I can put my iPad mini and mount it on the handlebars of my stationary on my road bike when it's on my stationary trainer. And I don't think an 11 would fit. Now there's another place in
my garage that the 11 inch can sit. But it was kind of nice like watching something in the garage riding the stationary bike with the mini. I mean, I'm going to go all in on this for the next, you know, 10 days or so and see how it goes. But I also don't want to manage two iPads. I don't want to do that. So I'm going to give it a shot and see see how it goes. All right. Well, I'm I was not expecting this. Yeah. Part of you was.
Well, kind of, but not immediately on day one. Like I told me. Yeah. Actually, I'm I was like, well, yeah, you know, but let's talk about it. So here we go. I will say the bezels are too big. They are unchanged to from before. Yeah. Right. To the point where, yeah, I could have I would have like to see something like a little thinner, but I'm sure there's like some science there. And so maybe this is the ideal size for people with, you know, fat fingers or whatever, you know,
they want to make sure that they're grabbing the display. And to be fair, like I do have pretty big hands. And yeah, I could imagine like the thinner bezel like being a problem even for sure, even though like looking at it, it would be nice. And and they want the bezel to be uniform all the way around. And I'd imagine the size of the camera and the face ID sensor and stuff help dictate that. As is, you know, holding it totally, totally get that as well. But,
you know, just seeing them in the store. And I got I knew that we're the same size we talked about it last week. Because like, then you look like the iPhone 15 pro and pro max. It's like, gosh, right to the edge is pretty sweet. So maybe that'll come in the future. Okay. We need to talk about your your article. Yeah. You want to talk about iPadOS? I do. I do. So you wrote this piece. It came out on Monday with the embargo. It's titled. I'm sure
everyone has seen it by now, not an iPad pro review. Why iPadOS still doesn't get the basics right. So can you talk a little bit maybe about the background of this? People can also check out upgrade and app stories this week. Like we're not going to spend their whole time recapping this. But it's a little bit about the the background of this and kind of how it's been since Monday. So the background is that I did not get an iPad pro review unit in time to publish a story. I was offered
one eventually toward the end of last week. And it would have been delivered on Monday. And the embargo was on Monday evening. And it just felt like like an unworkable deadline. And it wasn't a workable deadline. Especially since I knew that you know certain folks have been testing them since Tuesday or Wednesday. And and I was under the impression that there was also going to be my case. And I had a whole plan. I canceled some travel plans for the weekend. So that's why I was
home alone. Sydney. I was in Milan. We had a sponsor lined up and like I was ready. I had an entire plan for a story like I'm going to have this review. And I'm going to have this three part sort of three section review. I'm going to talk about the hardware. I'm going to talk about my weird experiments for gaming and the Macpad. And I'm going to talk about the software. And then I did not get an iPad. So when I was told that it would arrive on Monday, I just figured you know,
well, that's that's too late. And you know, what am I going to do there? Like get an iPad on Monday. And there's an embargo like six or eight hours later. And I'm not exactly the type who does unboxing videos. I mean, more power to you if you're a creator and do stuff that type of content. That's not what I'm interested in. And so I just declined the review unit. And I said it's probably by the way, it goes to somebody else. And so instead I had to pivot. And I figured, well,
I have plenty of time to write anyway. We have a sponsor that when that I will prefer to keep somehow, especially you know, these days, you know, it's pretty rough out there in the ad market. And so I don't exactly want to want to give up on a sponsor. And I thought, well, what was the plan for the regional review? Right? It was the hardware, the experiments, and the software. And obviously the one thing I could still talk about was the software.
And so I started thinking about the software. And I was thinking, well, how can I frame it in a way that it's still interesting? And this was literally, I was having these thoughts coming back from London. And in London, Mike and I were having these conversations about like, oh, you know, how people are going to react to these iPads. There's going to be the whole cycle again.
Of iPads, pro reviews and people saying it's an iPad, but it's still an iPad. And so and then I listened to upgrade and Jason also mentioning like the software limitations of iPadOS. And so I had the idea of, okay, I don't have an iPad, which is unfortunate. But I can probably still like carve my own niche on sort of on Monday, you know, sort of sort of, you know, basically a zag instead of ziggin, if you will, or in video game terms, you know, using Nintendo's
blue ocean strategy. Like, what if instead of talking about the iPad pro, I talked about the software. And what if I did something that I want to see out in the world, which is a comprehensive list of all the problems of iPadOS? And then I came back home, I talked about it with CIDV, as she was like, hey, that sounds like something interesting that you can do. And probably going to be a popular story. And so that was the background. And so I got to work and I made my own list
of problems of like, okay, when I'm working on the iPad, what are the issues? What are the things that after so many years I keep mentioning? And maybe these problems that I've mentioned in a bunch of places, like in this review, in that other review in 2019, and then in this article in 2021, like if you're a reader, you shouldn't have to follow through this, you know, this trail of
complaints scattered through a decade. Like, that doesn't seem convenient. I thought it's what would be convenient is a single article that people can point to and say, these are the issues of iPadOS that we think should be fixed. So that was the background. That was the approach. And then I got to work. And yeah, I was alone by myself with the dogs. And so for three days, I just, I walked the dogs twice a day. And then I cooked myself some meals so I do not starve to death. And I just
spend the rest of my time writing and editing. It's a great piece. You know, you let me read a couple of drafts of it over the weekend as you were working. Definitely, I think you met the goal of being like a comprehensive place to talk about where iPadOS falls down. And again, people need to go with this article. I said this on upgrade. And I'll say it to you directly, I don't think anyone thinks deeper about the iPad and iPadOS than you do. I think including a lot of people who work in
a certain around building. And you have gone through and talked about all sorts of areas where where this comes comes apart. What you don't say in the article and what you're not saying now is that the iPad should be the Mac. And you still want them to be different. But some people have either seen the article or saw the headline or heard us talk about it. Right, right. And have jumped at that. Yeah. So this is and this is the reason this happens is that people when they're
looking at this, this issue, they either want things to be black and white. And I guess I'm saying that there are so many shades of gray in the middle. What I think I'm saying, what I think Jason is saying and a bunch of other people are saying is that in an ideal scenario, it should be iPadOS running on the iPad. I would take iPads running iPadOS forever. I felt the need to actually write
this sentence in the article because maybe it wasn't clear enough. In an ideal scenario, iPadOS is the operating system built for this convertible devices that can be tablets with touch interactions but also be snapped into a case and they become like this laptop like devices. That's the ideal scenario. However, this ideal scenario is not happening. That ideal does not meet reality. Because in reality, we have iPadOS that is still largely based on iOS. I was reminded of this by
Steve Truntensmith when you install the simulator with Xcode on a Mac. The iPadOS is literally contained in the iOS file. It's still very much based on iOS. And iOS is to an extent like a marketing name for the exclusive features that the iPad has compared to an iPhone. But in reality, as I was saying, I don't think iPadOS is improving or has improved over the past 90 years. Even if you
don't, so the iPad is 14 years old. But let's not say that the iPad is 14 years old. Let's just start counting since the first iPad pro came out because maybe that's the second era of the iPad. So 2015, 2024, that's nine years. Do we think that in nine years, iOS and then iPadOS for these computers, do we think that the OS has advanced to quickly enough over the past nine years? It has improved. And this is the thing that Jason and I have been saying, it has improved.
We have USB support, like USB, mass storage support. We have a stage manager, which for better worse, it lets you use up to four windows at once. There's better support for keyboard shortcuts. There's better accessories. I'm not saying that it hasn't improved at all. It's not like you buy an iPad Pro in 2024 and it's still at iOS 9 level of functionalities. But the weird app picker on the side. Right. I mean, that was actually pretty good. But yeah, what I'm saying is
is iPadOS 17 enough. And I don't think it is, especially when you spend all that money on an iPad Pro, a computer that is advertised as a professional machine. I mean, I literally, when I was working on the story, I literally saved some of the marketing taglines from Apple.com. And they, I mean, besides, you know, the unbelievably thin stuff, they do mention things like a powering
all of your pro workflows or, you know, it's like they do, they sell this as a computer. Yeah, like iPadOS is designed to let you power through advanced workflows and do all the things you love with ease and simplicity. Like, they're not saying we're selling you this tablet. If you are a video maker, an artist, a YouTuber or a photographer, like they're not saying that. They're saying
this is a computer that lets you, the power is all of your pro workflows. And so my, my thought was is the iPadOS that we have today as it changed enough over the past nine years to power all kinds of pro workflows. And I don't think it has all of this. And I thought this was going to be quite easy to convey as a message. Arguing for iPadOS to get better does not equal, oh, just put my voice on the iPad. And you may say, but teacher, you created a Macpad. And
yes, I did. Because it was like, it's sort of like a Hail Mary move. Like, okay, if I want to have an iPad with the same degree of functionality as a Mac, maybe this is a way to do it. But like I said, ideally, it should be iPadOS. And the iPadOS team looking at MacOS and saying, okay, what is it that people are able to do on a Mac? And we don't necessarily need to copy the OS. We don't necessarily need to, you know, to carbon copy feature by feature exactly how they work on the Mac. But what is
it the goal behind the feature that people want to achieve? And can we bring that to iPadOS? I think that's a pretty easy concept to understand. But some people use it as a, they have this shortcut, right? To just say, oh, these people, you know, they just want to see the Mac turning to an iPad. Then no, like, that's not, that's all we're saying. Mm-hmm. If they did that, then what's the point? You know, there are tons and tons of people who love the iPad for exactly what it is.
Right? And we've talked about this before. Apple with the iPad more than anything else, I feel like, in their whole product family, they have to, or, I guess they don't have to, but we would like them to cater to many, many different groups. Right? The people who are just going to use one app at a time like they always have on a base iPad, they're going to give you for 10 years. That's a huge number of iPad users, right? Who are faithful Apple customers? So Apple should serve
them. But then you also have people who want to do more with it, who do bump up into the upper limits. And I think stage manager is like the perfect example of Apple trying to split the difference, right? It's not on by default. You got to go into control center. It's this totally different mode that you have to understand how it works. And it's really kind of weird in places. But if you don't want it or know that it exists, you will probably never encounter it either.
And like that's hard. I don't think you, I don't think, me, like Jason, like we are not saying that's not hard. Well, we are saying is I was doing a better job at it. And how do you preserve the simplicity of this operating system, but add complexity and add power for those who want it. And I think the, just put macOS on it. Like, and I get it, you know, Jason wrote that piece before the, before the event, and I'd link to it. And I'd say something along the lines of like,
what if the future of the iPad pro was with us all along? Like that is a route they could go. But it's, it's a route that while it may be sort of emotionally interesting for those of us who are Mac centric, it's probably not the right answer for the product or for Apple. And it probably just introduces confusion into what is already a kind of a messy situation between the iPad and the Mac. And, you know, I don't, I don't have any anyone who's trying to solve that
in Cupertino. But I think to your point, I wonder if they're kind of afraid of trying to solve it. I wonder if they're looking at the iPad and thinking, well, gosh, we just don't need to care to those people. And eventually, they'll just buy Macs and be quiet. Or they'll just realize like,
okay, they're like the, the upper one percent. And again, we don't want them to do that. But I have this like growing feeling that that's kind of what they've done, that they've decided that for folks like you and Jason want to do more than Apple's just like, well, it's kind of up to them. We're not going to give them what they want or need. So there's a couple of things that I want to say. I think it's funny, first of all, that over the past few days, I mean, obviously,
I'm incredibly happy and humbled with the sort of popularity of the story. I can tell you that it's been way more popular than any traditional iPad pro review I've ever done. Yeah, I mean, like it's been incredible. Like I would, it's been on the front page of Reddit, hacker news, which, you know, may not like those websites, but they drive, they sure drive a lot of traffic.
Yes they do. And that's a great thing for small publication like ours. But anyway, I think it's funny that a comment I've seen over the past few days is, oh, these people, whereby these people, they refer to me, Jason Steve Trutton Smith, maybe others, they think they
know better than Apple. Fair criticism. But the same people years ago, when the whole Mac, Mac book drama was unfolding, I could have said, oh, these folks, they think they know better than Apple, you know, when they said, oh, Apple has lost its way with the Mac, the keyboard is bad, these computers are bad, the touch bar is bad. And so I think it's funny that when it's not about the Mac, it's the people, it's other people who know better than Apple, but when it's about the Mac,
they do know better than Apple. And that's fine. I think the consistency there is fascinating. And I also take issue with a couple of quotes from Greg Joshua, and John Turner's on this fast company interview. The first one is a Joshua quote, basically saying that there's room for both an iPad and a Mac in Apple's vision for personal computing. Joss, we are saying the fact is that the majority of Mac customers have an iPad and they use them both. And a large
proportion of iPad customers have a Mac or some of them have Windows PCs. The second part of the sentence and a large portion of iPad customers have a Mac. What's funny there is that yeah, I'm sure they do have a Mac, but what's unsaid here is that a large portion of iPad customers need to have a Mac if they want to perform certain functionalities, if they want to do certain things, because an iPad
doesn't let them do it. An iPad by itself, like so many features are just not supported on the iPad. So yeah, I'm sure they have a Mac, but maybe parentheses need to have a Mac. That's an important clarification. And the other is a turn-ness answer, sort of trying to retcon in a way, the meaning of Pro. But turn-ness also pushes back on the notion that the iPad Pro is less than Pro. A term he says, there isn't defined by the Mac. There's a funny perception thing he says, maybe it's Mac
people with their notion of what professional is. You saw what Pro create team has done with the Apple Pencil Pro. There is no more professional drawing application in the world than Pro create. I mean, they're the lifeblood of artists. Sure, I mean Pro create is incredible. The Apple Pencil Pro is incredible. And I've seen artists do incredible work on the iPad Pro. But this is not like when did the Pro in iPad Pro became an exclusionary market? I'm not sure. Because it was sold as a
Pro device. And it's still advertised, if a non-mistake, and like you go to Apple.com slash iPad Pro, and it says all kinds of Pro workflows, apps for all kinds of amazing. I'm quoting here from Apple.com. It's not saying, oh, well, not Pro like on the Mac, but Pro if you use Pro create. Like it's not saying that. So I think it's convenient to say, oh, well, I'm not sure where this discussion about Pro comes from must be the Mac people. Like, no, it's you're selling a tablet that costs,
you can spec out to three thousand, three thousand euros. And it literally comes with a keyboard that looks like a MacBook. And it goes without saying, I think, that you would expect some people to say, hey, can I use this as a MacBook? Like, I think it's pretty clear cut. Yeah, I mean, I could I could have bought a, you know, most of the MacBook Air today. Yeah. Yeah. That fast-come-me-article rub me all sorts of the wrong way as well. I think the retconning of Pro in particular jumped out.
Jaws also says, well, we simplified the lineup in the Apple pencil story today. Like, did you? Did you though? Jason Snell, obviously, the Jason Snell from the chat saying this is also something that I wanted to mention happens every time. A whole lot of people who don't use or care about the iPad, I think it's fine. People who actually use it a lot think it needs work. Yeah. Yeah. No one else like someone who doesn't use an iPad to tell you the European
year about the iPad is wrong. So yeah, there's a, unfortunately, it has happened, well, continuing to happen and it is what it is. Yeah. But yeah, I mean, what I think is out there in the article. So folks who have been sort of putting words in my mouth for the past few days, like, no, go read the story. My opinion is there. That's what I think. And I do, and all these to reiterate once again, I love the iPad. I just, I literally bought one. That's what I'm going to use.
I want it to get better. I wanted to keep running iPad OS in an ideal scenario. It should keep running iPad OS. I don't want it to turn into a Mac. I don't think I know better than Apple. I, what else? Like all these things that people have been saying, I just think it needs some love. That's all. And it hasn't gotten enough love. And I don't think there's anything bad in thinking that. Yeah, man. If you didn't care about the platform, you wouldn't go out of your way to criticize it.
I would be so much happier, you know, if I was just a straight up Macbook Airperson, like life would be easier. So I inflicted this on myself. And I know that. But you know, life's fun also. So it's true. This episode of the show is brought to you by TailScale. TailScale is a programmable networking software that is private and secure by default. And it's the easiest way to connect devices and services to each other wherever they are. It's super secure, providing remote access
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So, see when there was an open AI spring event, spring update yesterday, they had some major news to share. A keynote that was like this video live streamed on YouTube and there was also like a sort of mini in-person gathering event. And there were some demos, but the big news is the the new model chat GPT 40, which is not 4.0 in terms of like the the version number. The O stands for Omni model, I think. That's a weird name. It's a weird name.
But so I watched the event. I saw the demos. Did you see the event? Did you watch it on YouTube? I did. I watched it after the fact. It's like what, 30 minutes or so, pretty short. Kind of jumbled, I think in terms of order of things. Like they're in a company, they'll figure out keynotes. Yeah. So the idea being that so this new model chat GPT 40 is going to be free for everyone, but people who pay a chat GPT plus subscribers, they're going to have 5x
the capacity, whatever, whatever that's going to mean. There's a Mac app that is rolling out that sort of lets you chat with chat GPT, but also lets you show your screen to chat GPT, which unlocks some incredible features that we're going to talk about. And the big news obviously is that chat GPT 40 is a multi-model AI that works across text, voice input, and vision. And you can mix and match all these things when having a conversation with chat GPT to do all
kinds of input. Like starting with the text query, jumping to, hey, let me show you a photo or a selfie or a screenshot to actually let me share my screen with you. Like I think, and I mean, we can talk about this. I think it was a really fascinating demo. And I think it was a great example of why I think Apple must be concerned in terms of, I don't want to say losing the AI race as if to make it sound that Apple is behind and
they're doomed. But in the sense of like, this is a really good demo that resonates with people. Google has demos that resonate with people and run and they run commercials that people understand. And I think Apple, I understand, I haven't seen what chat GPT can do now. I understand why Apple must be thinking, hey, we got to make sure that Siri and our iPhones can also impress people like this because it is obviously something that is here to stay. Yeah, I did not go into this event.
I mean, I'd kind of seen the rumors and there was a report like they're doing a search engine and that ended up not being true at least, at least for now. But I left it really pretty, pretty blown away by the multimodal idea that this thing is working across voice, text, and vision. So it can see what's on your screen. It can look through the cameras on your iPhone app. It's still a large language model, right? So it does kind of weird things. I think some of the things
is done, they've done to make it appear faster or a little problematic. Like I don't love some of the filler talk. We can talk about personality stuff too. I think we should. But the headline here for me, at least, is that OpenAI has built an assistant in the same class as Siri and Google Assistant and others, but in their own way through their own app, not built into the operating
system. And that's really interesting to me because up to this point, these things have been OS features, not third party app features, but that has not stopped OpenAI from taking this on. I think if this is the sort of thing that we are going to see at WDC, and if it works as impressively or at least close to as impressive a charge of GPG is this days, I'm very excited about what Apple could do here. Like the idea of combining multiple types of input, right?
And having maybe a Siri AI that has access to the camera feed or to, you know, like to quote unquote, real-time vision on your phone. I don't know. After seeing this, like it's funny because after seeing this OpenAI event, I went from being like, oh, I guess Apple will do AI stuff in iOS 18 to being a lot more excited. Because like when it was just a chatbot, I don't know. I was like, yeah, I mean, it's cool, but you're still going to a website and you're
chatting with an assistant on a website. But this level of OS integration, much more closely tied to your computer and your camera and your screen that I think is a lot more interesting. Totally agree. Can we talk about, there's just one moment in the demo, where the personal stage asks chat GPT for advice on how to remain calm before an audience. And the breathing. The breathing. And in this interaction, he breathes, you know, quickly and loudly.
And it hears it and tells him to slow down his breathing. And that moment, I was like, whoa, we, yeah, I don't know why that moment really got to me. I was like, okay, this thing has a level of understanding that is definitely beyond other tools like this that we've seen. It is kind of scary. Like the idea of the model being able to recognize human emotion and context like beyond the topic of the conversation that it is a little unsettling. And to be fair,
like, are we really going like, it makes for an excellent demo. I will say that. It makes for an excellent demo. But do you actually imagine a scenario in which in real life, you're about to step on a stage to give a presentation and you pull out your phone, you're like, hey, hey, assistant, I need tips to come down. Like, do you or are you going to be your partner? Are you going to call your partner or just breathe on your own? Like, do you need an assistant to tell you,
hey, breathe slowly and let me listen to your breathing? Like, is that a real life scenario? Yeah, I don't know. Like, I don't know. It makes for an excellent demo and it is incredible that the model can understand that and maybe I'm thinking too small. But then you also got a, you got to always keep in mind like, okay, but what are the real life applications of all of
this? And so I don't know, the vision stuff for me, like being able to mix and match, I think, I'm multiple, like, I command that I give you via voice and something that you see in the same conversation while retaining the context from one query to another, that to me is the real step beyond. And of course, being able to share your screen. And when at one point, one of the
presenters will like, okay, hold on, just let me share my screen with you. Like, that was the point when I was like, yeah, that's like having, because it really feels like having an assistant right by your side, right? Instead of like just that what we have today, which is like, oh, let me stop open Siri, ask a question and then come back. It's much more fluid than integrated.
That makes it more natural. It makes it like, it's just something you're speaking to, which I think Apple has had that, I think one reason Siri has been, you know, for better for work sort of infused with a sense of humor in Apple's eyes or the personality that it has is to make it more human. And with the chat GBT voice stuff, you can tell it how you want it to reach, how you want it to act, how you want it to sound. So you can make it more sarcastic or more emotive.
And that's wild. Because again, this is something else that has been controlled from the vendor side, I've been whoever designed it gave it its personality. I'm using a lot of air quotes and all of this stuff. But with this tool, you can say, actually, no, I want you to be a bit more serious or a bit more funny kind of like the personality slider and care whether I guess that's what I thought of watching this. Yes. Yes. But that is a feature I always wanted for Siri itself. Like,
just let me tweak your personality with a slider. I think it's like the character feature is so simple, but so well done. And to be fair, the chat GBT demo yesterday, the the the assistant was really, really eager to talk to these people. Maybe a little too much, you know, she, she like, I say she's think code. But I don't know, it was maybe a little too emotive and conversational. Yeah. Two degree. Well, I think part of that is to between press people. Yeah.
It's true. And press people. But it also like those humane eye and rabbit are one videos. Like, you ask it a thing and you're just waiting for like 30 seconds for it to get its answer. They say this new model is much faster, but I can't help but think also some of the talking is to cover up the fact that it's doing stuff in the background and like waiting for information to come back from the model. Yeah. Yeah. Because while it's saying, oh, sure, let me look that out in
the meantime. It's already processing. It's like stalling. You know, it's like, yeah, yeah, you're like, oh, you're so kind, but in the meantime, it's actually working behind the scenes. Yeah. This episode of Connected is brought to you by Squarespace, the all in one website and platform for entrepreneurs who want to stand out and succeed online. Whether you're just starting out or growing a brand, Squarespace is the place to go because you can build a beautiful website,
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domain name. Once again, that squarespace.com slash connected and you'll get 10% off your first purchase and show your support for the show again, squarespace.com slash connected. All right, thanks to Squarespace for supporting this show and relay FM. So the next day after opening open I went on Monday, Google went on Tuesday. I'm sure that wasn't an accident.
We had the first day of Google IO and there was so much announced like y'all you just have to keep scrolling and scrolling in our notion document like read all the notes I took on Google IO. But like previous IOs, it feels like it's sort of a scatter shot. Like these are a bunch of things we're working on and there's not necessarily a and some of them worship and others will ship be abandoned like the vaporware percentage of Google IO way higher than I think open
a eyes spring update. I think at I think at this point, the vaporware percentage of Google IO is higher than a Microsoft concept video. But one day they're going to make that little foldable career. It's going to be so sick. I still wonder. Did you see the video of like the DJ person like running around? I have been following the DJ person online for years. Really? I need to know tell me everything. Tell me everything. They started doing this. I think it was a pandemic thing.
DJing in his name is Mark Rebile. I think the start doing this in the living room in the bathroom years ago. I don't know. The guy is so fun. As that sort of energy, it's really into the music. And actually like pretty good DJ I would also say. And yeah, it's funny. Especially reading the comments from people, people calling him king and all kinds of things. Yeah, it's and like you should also check out the videos that he does in public.
He literally sort of sets up a keyboard and a DJ interface and a monitor. And he starts DJing in front of people in a bathroom. It's incredible. Yeah, great energy, great vibe. Yeah. Okay. I will I'll have a link to. Yes. Thank you, BG. People calling Luke Daddy. Yes. Okay. I was on a subreddit called our slash loop daddy. I was like, I don't want to know what this is about. Yeah. Luke Daddy. Any as Luke Daddy merch. I think that you can buy.
Okay. So Luke Daddy. Luke Daddy. I can't judge. I mean, you're the Mac daddy. He's the Luke daddy. And you know, you're you're all daddy's. So yeah, I'll put I'll put his YouTube channel on the show and its people check out. So lots of announcements. We're not going to hit them all. One though that jumped out at me early on was a Gemini 1.5 is basically going to be appearing in a bunch of places like Google Docs, Sheets, Drive, Gmail. It's all for paid Gemini subscribers.
But this has been Microsoft's move, right? With Copilot. Exactly. Yeah. It's all through out there. Productivity software. And Google is now doing that with Gemini. Of course, Copilot is built on Open AI. Gemini from Google built on their own technology. This is all very confusing since Microsoft doesn't own the technology powering their stuff. But Gemini 1.5 is going to be showing up in more places for you if you're a paid subscriber, including Chrome on the desktop. So just, you know,
these things continue to filter out and do all the things that these things do, right? Like, help you write emails and summarize meeting notes and make connections across documents. Like that sort of that sort of classic workspace stuff. Google is now catching up there. Yeah. I mean, it makes sense for me because especially when it comes to the business and
enterprise offerings, Google and Microsoft are more similar than not. Yeah. And they both offer a suit of productivity tools and email and calendar and file storage and Microsoft obviously pioneered this idea of like, let's put AI into all of these tools and how Google is going to follow. And arguably they have the big advantage of having Gmail and Gemini built into Gmail, which is, you know, potentially a huge, I don't know how many hundreds of millions of users Gmail has or
like does it even have a billion users? I don't know. But having AI built into Gmail is potentially like Google's greatest advantage in terms of being a useful tool, but also being a scary tool in terms of like extracting data from people's Gmail. So, but yeah, that's a big, that's a big thing that they have that Microsoft does not. One thing that I saw that I really honestly, I really want and now I want Apple to do it is you can now ask Gemini about things in your
Google Photos library. So the demo was like, what's my license plate number? And it searched through the library, found a picture of license plates, gave it the numbers, but then showed the picture so the person could double check that it didn't misread it. I mean, I know my license plate number reminds of custom plate, which is for characters on it. So it's easy to remember. But most people don't know their license plate number, I don't think. And you know, that's just a single example.
And I mean, they've searched in photos, right? Like just today, I needed some photos from the last podcast that I thought. And so I searched in November, 2023, St. Jude, but it gave me 400 results. And I was looking for like five pictures like, well, what if I could keep narrowing it down? And at some point, Apple's work in this area just doesn't kind of live up to what it could be. So I do hope this is something that we can do in our own photo libraries if you're using
iCloud photos. Again, Apple would do this where it's all on device, which means it'd be like building these indexes on all of your devices. And that would be kind of weird that we've seen that over the years play out in different ways. But there's a lot of information in our photo
libraries and being able to find something quickly would be pretty cool. Yeah, especially if you can do so with natural language, like I imagine like doing, for example, hey, show me what a pretty common one like, show me what I was wearing the last time I went out for dinner with Stephen, like because maybe we're going out again and I don't want to dress up the same. Yeah. You know, like something simple like that. It's some simple in your brain. Like,
hey, what was I wearing the last time I went for dinner with Stephen? Well, like, explain that to a computer. Like there are so many different clues to understand. And so yeah, I am excited about that idea. They're also doing some open AI stuff in terms of the multimodal assistant. So there's project Astra, which they said there's this great piece on the verge by David Pierce that will link to talking to several people at Google who have worked on this. And it is that multimodal
AI assistant. So we can see through the cameras on your phone and it can hear you and it is, you know, much more like what open AI pitch the day before than what Google assistant and Siri can do now. I think it's clear that this something like this will power Google assistant in the future. Right now it seems to be kind of like you're the side of Google assistant. Like it's kind of a new thing. But once all this is mainstream, I think this is just how these virtual assistants will work.
And now two of the three companies, you know, assuming Apple is the third, I guess, have now shown this to be the case. Like, yeah, this is how these things should and will work in the future. Yeah, and I have to believe that this is also what Apple is going to be working on. Right? Like this idea of multimodal assistants that are not just chatbots that are not just like prompts,
but accept a variety of methods. That seems to be something that is right up Apple's Valley, I think, of like we want, we want, if it's going to be Siri, we want Siri to be useful everywhere. Yeah, we'll see. They also shut off like this new model, Vio, Vio. How do you want to pronounce it, Vio? Vio? Vio? I don't know that you've said it both ways I don't know. Yeah, it's a model for producing video, basically like Google's answer to Sora by open AI.
The Google version can produce 1080p content based on prompts, like based on text image and video prompts. Now, I got a wonder because everybody's been asking open AI, hey, as Sora being trained on YouTube, I have to imagine that Google's model has been trained on YouTube footage. Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah, I think this is one worth keeping an eye on because it's from the company that owns YouTube and they can do whatever they want with that footage. And if they want to use it to
train AI, that could be interesting. And also like quite scary. I should say that like most of these things, they are like my opinion on these AI features. They are equally impressive, because I mean, let's face it from a computer science perspective, they are impressive, they're remarkable, but they're also very scary for especially for creative professionals. Like I found, I found open AI's demo for tutoring a student with an iPad and chat DPD running
on the tablet. I found it terrifying if you're a teacher, if you're anybody in the education field, like the thought of well, I'm just a person. How can I even compete with an AI that has access to the world's information in all, in literally all the languages that are spoken on planet earth. And I'm just a teacher. Like I find most of these tools technologically fascinating and remarkable. And also scary, just scary and dangerous for for the human race. Yeah. Like people in creative
fields, people in the medical field. I know some folks who have been asking chat GPT for medical advice. People in educational fields. Yeah, people do it. People do it. You give people this kind of tool. I mean, it used to be the people would look up if they had cancer on Google and Wikipedia and WebMD. And now they're going to do that with chat GPT. You know, you give people a search tool
and they use it. It's just what they do. They use it. Yeah. And so yeah, I think it's I think it's scary, which is why I'm much more okay with the idea of using AI to access, process, rediscover your data. And I am personally much less okay with generative AI as a way to replace existing human jobs. And you know, just like I find the idea of using AI to create like an actual second brain, for example, or a super powerful search tool that searches through my computer
for my stuff. Like that, that technology is incredible. But like when we get too, hey, what about creating a movie with a text prompt? Like that's scary. I don't know. I think I think that line is I think where a lot of people kind of view things change. Yeah. Or or for example, another cool use case in Android, they shut off like using AI to listening on spam calls or scams on the phone. Like yes, that is the perfect use for a robot. Like put it to work. Let it
handle the spam calls coming in. Like I would love to have something like this on my phone. Like that is a perfect like free the human from the job of answering the spam call. Yes. That is an use of AI that is okay with me. And it's also why like with all these announcements from OpenAI and Google, I am intrigued to say the least in terms of how Apple is going to navigate these waters next month. Like how do they sidestep the potential issue of as we've seen with a crash
ad? Like your generative AI is destroying creative professionals or at the very least it poses a serious harm to creative professionals. Like I think it's going to be interesting to see how Apple is going to reconcile wall streets need for generative AI versus people's feelings. Yep. About it. Yeah. Jason and I spoke about that. It feels very complicated for Apple to get that right. Jason, I had a good point. It's like well, Apple now has a month to get it out after the ad
controversy. And I think that's accurate. They've seen the they've seen the they've gotten the appetizer a month in advance. No AI, appetizer. I'm sorry listeners, I didn't mean for Stephen to do that. But he's sentient on his own. So I'm sorry. I'm a large language model paradigm dad jokes. Yeah. We need to talk about Google AI and search. And so they are adding a lot more AI generative results to the search page, which of course pushes regular web search to links to websites like
mine and yours further down the page. Goodbye. Yeah. A lot of publishers, publishers I think rightfully are worried about this. Don't worry though. Google's newly had a new head of search says that it's fine. Liz read and I quote says young users in particular are always looking for a human perspective on their query and says it's still Google's job to give that to them. I yes. The youth. The youth. They'll save us. Thank you. There's also a filter. You can just hit web and it shows
you just the links like before, but you can't fully turn off the AI stuff. I mean, this is going to further complicate Google's relationship with internet publishers. I don't think there was some back and forth on I think threads earlier. Some people like well, people are just going to turn off crawling to Google is like no, you can't like you just can't do that because then you're going to
starve as a as a web publisher, but this does complicate things. There's already been so so much mess around even before it was air quotes AI just like when you would search for something on Google and it would pull an answer from a website onto the search reason for you like in a box, right? Lots of people called foul many more people call foul over this. I think for me, that's the biggest thing out of IO. The rest of the stuff is interesting slash scary.
Some of it won't exist, but if they truly change like Google search in a way that looks like they're going to that could be a fundamental change and a lot of how the internet works and I just don't know if we're ready for that. Yeah, it's a scary time to run a website as a business and to depend on Google, which is why I think over the past few years, you and I and Rayleigh, Max stories and Jason and Thompson, like it's the reason why we have explored other avenues for revenue and
to sort of stop playing that game altogether of of running a business and the only source of support that you get is the people that find you via Google search and Google has shown time and time again that they just don't they just don't care like they it's not like it's not like they have an opinion because when if you want to have an opinion, you need to you need to care in the first place. They literally don't care for them. It's not people with websites. It's content feeding
the algorithm. Yeah, they absolutely don't care. I've seen I've been having this conversation over the past couple of years actually with two different friends who started websites about portable gaming and it's scary out there, you know, with Google basically destroying with their changes to search
the amount of people that find them and it's why I'm seeing this this new smaller publications immediately explore tools like memberships or newsletters or you know just to sort of expand beyond the reach of Google search and so it's and the worst thing is this is happening
no matter what like it's it's a it's a train that you cannot stop. So I don't have anything else to say except that if anybody's going to be affected by this the best time to start exploring other business opportunities beyond Google search was yesterday and the next best time is right now. Yeah agreed. Yeah. I mean it's I don't want to end on a down note because I think it's been a pretty fun episode. I always have these fun episodes with you when Mike is not around. Yeah he
holds us back. I'm not sure he's going to like to hear that you know. Yeah. And maybe it's the height you know we're just so tall and big without him. We're just so tall now it's it's that it's that. Yeah I can see for miles up here. It's great. I'm going to kind of I'm comfortable you've been sitting on my shoulders for like hour and 25 minutes. My neck is starting to feel the pressure. Okay well yeah you got the Vision Pro you know it was training. Here's just this mount.
Stephen please. But no but yeah I mean it's scary and and yeah please if you have a website try others try new things would be my advice try new things and try build a relationship with your readers or your listeners like do not depend on Google search because Google doesn't care about you and never will never have a never will. So yeah. So that's so that's the show. That's the show. We've done the show. We're now in keynote season open AI and Google are done. WBC is just a few
weeks away. We'll be making our picks in just a couple of weeks which is hard to believe. If you want to find links to stuff we spoke about so you can point your AI a little limit them to summarize them for you. They are in your podcast player and on the web at relay.fm slash connectus slash 502. There's also a feedback form there you can send us feedback or follow up via the form and you can also join and get connected pro which is the longer ad free
version of the show that we do each and every week. Connected pro members also get access to the relay members discord a couple of relay members only podcasts including our annual specials that we do every year. We're going to be recording the connect to one very soon. We'll talk more about that in the near future but lots of good stuff happening and membership plans to go check that out. Mike's not here but if you want to let him know that we missed him. Yeah. What should people do?
What should people do? I think it's got to be it's got to be something about AI. I think send Mike a picture or a gift of your favorite robot. Yes. Yes. You can do that on Macedon or Threads. He's I, Mike both places you can find him. A picture or a gift of your favorite robot. Favorite robot. Favorite robot. All right. You can follow a Federico online as well. You don't have to send him favorite robots, you know, but actually please don't do that. Just do that to Mike. Yeah, just
just click link on my website. Yeah. Yeah. Go check out Mac stories. Go. There'll be an iPad pro review there. I guess at some point and you know, Macpad stuff and of course you guys will be doing lots of coverage as WRC kicks off here in just a few weeks. You can follow Federico on social media as Vitee. V-I-T-I-C-C-I. He is on Macedon and Threads. You could find my writing at 512 pixels dot net. Just go ahead and make that your homepage. You know, so you don't have to let Google
wait, you know, and so the destroy all web traffic. You can follow me on social media. I'm ISMH at eworld.social.macidon and ISMH 86 on Threads. Maybe one day there's will be the same thing. I like to think our sponsors this week for making the show possible. Jam, Squarespace, Tailscale. Until next week, Federico. Say goodbye. I'll see you there. Bye all.