Hello and welcome to episode 497 of Connected. This episode is brought to you by Jam, Ecam, and ExpressVPN. My name is Mike Hurley, I'm joined. By Federica Batici. Hello Mike. How are you? I'm Federica. I'm good. I'm good. How are you? I am fantastic. Thank you. We're also joined by Stephen Hackett, a little Stephen. Hello. Hi. What's out of energy are you bringing into the show today, Stephen?
I'm pretty good. I got to say Mike's intro, pretty, pretty low energy, and he tried ramping it up at the end. If you want one of those. Oh, wow. So are you looking for? Maybe. Yeah. Jim could just put that at the start. Just that, and then it just goes into the program, like that. Follow up. We have some. A couple of weeks ago, we talked about checking the Federate, our Threads accounts box. I think we had all done it. I had mentioned that I couldn't find my Threads account.
Miss Remembering only available for you in America. Oh, sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. We'll do it. All agreed. We'll do it, but cannot do it. I'm sorry. I didn't mean to be America's centric. America's centric American. I didn't mean to do it. I turned it on. An American centrist, I think is what you said. A Macintosh centrist. That's a different thing. Okay. You guys know about the Macintosh centrist? What are you talking about? I don't know. I'll be linking the show notes.
I had trouble finding my Threads account on my eWorld.social server, even though it was showing up on Macedon.social on my test account there. It did eventually show up. And I followed it and posts from Threads seem kind of hit or miss. I don't feel like all of them make it over to Macedon. And there's always a delay. It's early. It is starting to work. That is exciting. I still don't have any real feelings of what account I keep because I don't want to
manage to accounts. It basically do the same thing. That's still all very much up in the air. But the wheels are slowly turning towards the federated future. That's good. Wow. I had a thing a couple of days ago where I was going to make fun of you and Macedon for cross posting and pause for a second and realized, ah, I'm following your Threads account. I was so close to needing to be owned that luckily that did not happen.
Yeah. Zach says the delay is intentional to allow you to delete before it federates. That's good. That makes a lot of sense. That is good. You know, as as janky as some of this stuff is, there is a good bit of this that is pretty well thought out. Like I'm not saying it's a perfect system. But things like that, like as soon as you're like, oh, yeah. Why wouldn't you do it that way? We mentioned last week that I was trying to install, like to get access to the EU stuff.
And I forgot to mention that I got the old store installation to work by simply swapping as we thought my American App Store account with my Italian App Store account. So yeah, there's just doing that in settings. It worked. I guess we'll see once like actual stores, they open up on the web, what happens if I install them using my Italian App Store account, then sign out from that and sign back in with my American one. Like what will happen in that case? Well, what happened? I did you swap back?
What? So yeah, I did. I did. It kept working but also like that's a beta version of all store that I manually installed using a dot IPA file. So I'm sure like that's that's not part of like the actual system that regular people will see.
But also like for example, if you have apps on your phone that you downloaded using two separate app store accounts, like for example, I have apps that I download with my American account, but I have a few Italian specific apps like, you know, the app for my security system, for example, that I needed to get from the Italian App Store. Now normally I am logged in with my American account, but today that app had an update.
And it used to be back in the day that you had to manually sign out from settings, sign back in with the other account and update the apps from the app store. Now I can stay signed in with my American account, but during the update process, the app store prompts me for a password. And it says, this app was downloaded with this different Apple ID, putting the password for that Apple ID if you want to continue updating the app.
And I'm kind of curious to see if the EU, like if the third party marketplace distribution will work the same way. Absolutely not. Well, I don't think it will. Because they are going to do as we've seen from even to things that they've said, they do not want you to use it at all. Right? Like they just don't want anyone to use this and they're going to make no concessions. Right? Like the fact that apps do like you lose access to them.
If you're outside of the EU for 30 days, like if they're going to do that, then there's no way they're going to make any part of it easy. Yeah, you're right. Yeah. So that's the update that's the follow up from last week. I wouldn't be surprised if you know how like on the show last time you were saying that like, oh, you know, you're going to lose your downloads from your Apple music. If you switch, I bet that happens.
Like I bet if you use your European ID and you switch over to your American one, you'll do those apps will be removed. Yeah. Or just they will be the icons will be deemed and it'll say you're not eligible to use this app or something. Yeah. Because they just don't want you using it. Do you have any impressions of all still like having used it?
Yeah. Like, I mean, it was, I really liked the UI, but because it was a beta version, a bunch of things were now hooked up like, for example, the Patreon linking system was not working for me. So I couldn't install a clip because I couldn't link my pledge on Patreon with the beta version of all store that I had. So I'll try again. Once all store actually opens up and I will, I will report back. Very cool. But I mean, the UI was, but was very similar to the existing version of all store.
Oh, of course. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So there's more data mining in 17.5, 9 to 5 Mac published, quote, based on our analysis, there are identifiers that the next generation iPad Pro, which would be that we've OLED and also there would be there are identifiers for an 11 and 12.9 inch regular iPad. You know, what I'm saying? iPad Air. That's what I'm looking for. Yeah. There you go. I got there in the end. You did. I did a terrible job.
Basically, they found reference to all of the iPads we're expecting. The pros have OLEDs and them. It's in 17.5, which is kind of what we are expecting based on what Mark, Mark, go on and I said, where again, Mark is continuing to refine his prediction to say that he is now expecting these iPads to be announced during the week of May 6th. So that is a month from now. Yeah. So I've done some math. This week, I went back and looked at the historical patterns for iPad releases.
So if Germany is correct during the week of May 6th. So based on what Apple did in the past, I think we're looking at iPad announcement on Tuesday, May 7th with hopefully release on Friday, May 17th, which means if we extrapolate, we could expect a iOS and iPad OS 17.5 on Monday, the 13th. And press embargo, I'm guessing on Wednesday, the 15th. And once again, this is just personal speculation based on previous patterns and sort of timing of previous iPad releases.
I think the only thing I would potentially have you as you consider is that they're like order today available Friday. No, maybe. And in that case, if the timeline is accelerated, we may see. So I guess version B would be iOS 17.5 on Monday, the 6th, iPads on Tuesday, release on Friday, the 10th and press embargo on Wednesday or Thursday. If that's the case. But last time they released iPads, they did with order today available next week. So that's what I was predicting.
Automatic, the makers and stewards of WordPress. Is that the architecture way to describe that? That's pretty fair, I think actually. Yeah. Because it's two things that are the same thing, but also not. Right. Automatic also owns Tumblr and day one and much of other stuff. A pocket, a pocket cast. They have acquired BPA for $125 million. So BPA have been making text messaging products. They also were the company that hired the high school student. Yes. I think.
Yeah. Who had reverse engineered I message to create BPA Mini, the I message app, which is available on Android. Automatic is acquired this company. They have acquired BPA's team, including the 27 employees, the applications that they make, which integrate services like Signal, Facebook, Messenger, Slack and also the 100,000 customers that's all kind of coming along.
So they're basically like automatic appears to just be like, well, by the company company says, as it is, I was reminded from John's link about and there's some Mac stories that automatic had previously bought an app called texts, which was a similar idea of like,
what if one app bought all your messages, which I think is actually a pretty good idea, and is potentially automatic hedging against a interoperable future of messaging services, which also feels possible, more possible now than ever before because it seems like it's something that a lot of wall governments want to happen for good or ill.
So I don't really know what to think about this other than automatic showbizelal companies and I think $125 million for BPA sounds like a really good deal for BPA. It does sound good. I think a deal for BPA. Yeah. And Matt Mullenweg, the founder, had this blog post about it basically saying they have no interest in dealing with I message on Android. I think that chapter is fully closed. I've not tried any of these apps that combine messages from multiple services. I tried them.
I didn't like them because I mean, it is convenient what you're still losing like the dedicated features and UI of each of those apps. I don't know if it felt kind of awkward to use something that's like, hey, this is WhatsApp or this is this code, but it actually wasn't. I don't know. I feel kind of uncomfortable. My general feeling about these apps is the exact same feeling that I had about BPA, like BPA Mini is like, I don't believe that any of these things will work into the long term.
Yeah. Because all of the companies of which you were building up, they don't want you to do this. Like even if there are APIs, right, that you're just using. None of these companies like want you to exist. They want like Slack and Facebook and they want you into the Slack and Facebook apps. So they're never going to make your life easy.
Like they're always going to be changing a thing and then you have to try and respond to that thing that they changed because now the apps broken like as as useful as these kinds of things could be, I am never confident that they will last into the long term. So I just never want to get I always try in software to not put myself in a situation where I'm going to be upset that something is killed. Right, like I try my very best to avoid those kinds of situations.
And so I will rarely pick up something where I think I'm not sure that this is going to last into the long term and these kinds of things are one of them. I wish them well because I think it's a great idea and maybe you know, after five years or something like this existing, like being all powerful and everyone loves it, then sure maybe, but I'm always concerned about these kinds of software products. This episode of Connected is brought to you by Jam.
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If you're a web developer and you would rather spend your time writing code than responding to comments in your issue tracker, send your team jam.dev. It's jam.dev.jam.dev or click the link in the show notes. Thanks to Jam for the support of the show and relay FM. All right guys, it is time for our weekly Tichitalian segment. I have a few things planned for you today, but before we get to those, we have some feedback from Roberto, which is the way you pronounce that name in Italian.
I'll be loving Tichitalian, but an unfortunate side effect is I had to turn off conversational awareness of my AirPods since they believe that I'm having a Italian conversation with Federico. I'm assuming that Roberto is speaking answers back. Like I'm not sure exactly what's going on here because that's going to be the thing that's happening. It had not occurred to me that other people might be playing along. Right, right.
So they're literally like trying to repeat what you guys are trying to learn to bring degrees of success. Wow. Yeah, I mean, Steven, you know, so today we're doing it really. I love you, Steven. So today, today we're doing a few things. First we're going to do the numbers. Finally, we're going to count from one to 10. It's going to be pretty simple. Most of these numbers are very similar to Spanish. So Steven, if you know some Spanish, maybe you will find some of these easier.
I'm going to start. So one is one. Uno, Uno. Oh, wait. Can we just do them like one? Yeah. Yeah. Can we do it every week? We do them along with you. Why are you changing the formula? Sorry. I'm sorry. So one is Uno. Uno. Uno. Perfect. Two is two way. Two way. Two way. Yep. Yep. Three is three. Three. Three. Mike, you're getting better at that. Our sounds. I don't know. I don't know how, but it's helping, I think. So four is four.
Four. Yeah. Steven, I know why you say quad, true, but it's quad, true. It's not true, like you said. I don't know how to explain that sound. But yeah. That sounded a bit American, but it's okay. You're good. Five. I guess this is maybe the trickiest one. Five is Chinkui. Oh, that's not what I was thinking, because I looked at that the way you're written out and I was thinking in Spanish, like where it's like, would be Sinkui. Yeah. Or would it be Sinkui? Yeah. But like, Chinkui. Yes. Chinkui.
Yep. That's very good. Six is, say. Say. Say. If you recall. Say. What you say. Say. If you recall, say was also the meaning of you are from last week. It's the same word written the same way, but in this context, it's the number six. Seven is Sette. Sette. Sette. Yep. Eight is Otto. Otto. Like the name. Yeah. Like the automators. Robert. Like the, yeah, yeah, exactly. Nine is Nove. Nove. Say it again. That's very good. Nove. Nove. Nove. Nove. Kind. Yes. Like Avada. No, that's not me.
Oh. And I guess, much is say, I guess, I guess maybe the number 10 is also tricky. So 10 is Dishy. That wasn't what I expected. Me neither. Yeah. I was thinking it was going to be Dishy, like Chi. Okay. So. So the way that I said it is my Roman accent. Okay. Proper Italian pronunciation. And I'm going to try here my best is Dishy. Yeah. You see now we got to see this is dialect stuff. Right. Yeah. Because I was using what we learned a minute ago. I would. In my dialect, I would say Dishy.
You know, it's like a, yeah, that's a slightly different time. Yes, yes, yes. Now just say Dishy and that's the proper way and you'll be fine. So these are the numbers from one to 10. Now I want you to put together two very basic sentences. We learned, you know, I am you are here is last week and we learned numbers today. So how would you say we are two? Well, I think you gave it away a minute ago.
So I think I assume if I'm remembering what you just said, it would be like say, no, no, that we are we are. So would that be boy? Nope. The other one. No, exactly. And then ah, that was the tricky one. We were saying we're two. We're two. So we're two. We're two. So for example, you go to the restaurant and they ask you like how many of you are you on a table for and you would say, we're two. We're two. Yep. Whereas if you need to say something like you are six in total. So it's not all right.
So you are so that's plural and we learned last week that it was boy. All right. Oh, okay. Yeah, boy. Voice say. Yeah, see. See. See. See. Yes. Yes. Yeah. Voice. Yeah. Voice. You are say. All right. How was it be Ciette for six? The Ciette is you are. Yes. Yes. Oh, yes. Yes. That's why I picked this one because it's sticky. Voice. See. Say. Yes. Yes. And in total, it's very similar. It's in total. It's like very similar. Okay. All right. How would that be, Mike? Voice.
Yes. See. See. See. See it. See it. See. Say. Yes. In total. Yes. That's good. That's hard. Yeah. I know. You'll get there. I also have a little little like very small bonus thing for today that I thought about. I want to you, I wanted to teach you the proper pronunciation of the Apple executives on their leadership page that have Italian sounding last names.
So in English, we will be looking at Craig Federegi, look at my history and John, I'm guessing most Americans would say Gianan, Gianan, Gianan, Gianan, Gianan, Gianan, Gianan. All right. So the way you pronounce his last names in Italian is Federegi. Okay. Federegi. Federegi. Federegi. Federegi. Federegi. Federegi. Yeah. That's good. So I'm going to save the tricky one for last. Mystery. So, you know, it's not, it's very similar to the English one just with the order sounding R. Mystery.
Mystery. Mystery. Yeah. Nice. That's very, that's so good, Mike. You're making so great progress. I'm good at, I'm good at just emulating. Yeah. Like if I hear you say it, I can just emulate that. All right. So what I'm doing. One last name is the really tricky one. Gianandrea. Gianandrea. Yes. Gianandrea. We would say like, Gianandrea. Well, it's not, it's not Gianandrea. It's not Gianandrea. It's, yeah. Gianandrea. Gianandrea. Yeah. Yeah. Very good. We're done. I'm going to go.
It was a tricky lesson this week. So. Yeah. It was tough. Yeah. It was a tough lesson. And even you still like, you're also making progress. I think we are sort of, something is unlocking in your brain, I think. It's, you used to really struggle with some of this and you're picking them up faster compared to a few episodes ago. So good job. Good. I'm glad you're pleased with our progress. Yes. So Steven, you were out of the office on Monday?
Yes. Because you were going like many Americans to see the eclipse. That's right. The freedom moon as we call it. Sure. We don't call it that. Would it is the moon free or is the sun free of needing to do all the work or is Earth free from the sun? That finally. That. It's going to be a short live victory. But yes. So this is the, the second total solar eclipse that's been in my neck of the woods. Solar eclipse has happened all the time, right? Like all over the world.
There'll be another one in my neck of the woods in 20, I think it's 2044 or 2045 also comes across the southern part of the United States. You'll be on 70 button. Not 70. I mean, nearly. I think it'll be like 59. Hang on. I'll put it on the calendar. Let me see if I can find it now. Yeah. I don't want to think about that stuff. This makes me feel strange inside. I don't want to get old. It's happening to all of us right now.
No. I think there's one of these that passes over Spain for next year, I think. Me and you can go if you want. We can meet in Spain. I will be 59 in 2045. Yeah. So also it falls on the anniversary of Greengate being fixed and I was 13.6.1. What? That's some same day. It'll be 25 years since Greengate is fixed. I actually feel bad for you. That's on your calendar. It's a repeating annual thing, you know? Yeah. If in 20 years you remember about Greengate? I am going to give you $1,000.
When Sony's calendar. Yeah, it's a repeating, it's the easiest $1,000. Make a note that I got to give you $1,000 in 20 years. On that day. That's what it was. That's what it was. That's what it was. That's what it was. That's what it was. At least $5 by then. Yeah. I think it was, is it $1,000 in 2024? It's inflation will work in my favor over 25 years. It could be real money. Well, why would anybody agree to that? I don't know how the system works.
Why would anybody agree to an inflation-adjusted bet? Why would you do that? So moving on from financial related jokes. The eclipse was incredible. We traveled to North East Arkansas to a little town called Paragold, Arkansas. It's normally about an hour and a half from Memphis. So we went up the kind of the evening before hung out in this like a small town, like the high school marching band was doing a concert down Main Street for the eclipse event. So saw that at some pizza.
Well, the family had pizza. I sat there looking sad at pizza. And the next day went to a small city park to view the eclipse. And it was incredible. The one in 2017 was amazing. This definitely lived up to my memory of it. It is really something else. Like Memphis had 98% coverage. The extra 2% really matters. Going to totality is a totally different thing. I'll hope that it's not enough for me. 100 or nothing. 100 or nothing. I'm going to stay inside.
I'm going to stay in my vision pro and not watch totality. If it's 98, can you look at it? No. So you have to wear the glasses. Said who? You know what I mean? Well, I mean, I saw a thing on threads today. Like Google searches for my eyes hurt have been off the charts. So a lot of people maybe screwed that up. You have to wear the glasses. Yo, lo. Yeah. You only. Typical Joe Biden. You know what? You know what I mean? He won't even let me look at the sun when I want to.
I mean, Trump looked directly at it and he's exactly and he's fine. If there's one guy we can all agree is totally fine. He's still on Trump. Joe! Joe, don't look at the side. Yeah, it's big lens. They want you to buy those lenses. You know, this is a Jeff Bezos thing. You know, actually, this is not going to help y'all conspiracy theory, but there's a company in Memphis that makes most of them. So. Oh, here we go. Now it's big Memphis money. It's big Memphis.
You know, this one happens when your uncle's the man, you know, you just like, you know, I want you to think that we're all with all these websites, you know, they're all part of the same group. I'll just quote unquote, journalists. Yeah. Wow. Okay, you think the style guides for, you know what I mean? It's so everyone says the same stuff. That's the problem of mainstream media. Yeah, I don't get the news from the internet. I got my news from Telegram. You fools. What? Wake up, up sheep all.
You sheep all. And the moon's for looking, you know? You know, it's weird. You wouldn't think that a something like an eclipse would be possible since the earth is flat, but it is. I know, right. I know. I genuinely had someone in my life, not a family member, but someone who's in my life say to me a couple of days ago, you know, they have some points. I was like, no, come on. I'm like, please don't. I'm so jealous.
I really want to have like in my circle of like acquaintances, at least like a flat or third because I feel like I feel like I would go out for drinks with that person and get so hammered and the good laugh. Listen to those theories. He's a guy. He's like, he, you know, he is, I will say conspiracy susceptible, right? Oh, nice. Like some of the stuff that we talk about, like I entertain his conversations and I just kind of want to see what he's thinking about.
We talk and like some of the stuff that he talks about. I'm like, all right. Like I can see. Yeah. Do you remember a number of months ago, there was that train crash somewhere in America, Stephen? Oh, yes. Yeah. Right. In Palestine, Ohio or something. Yes. He was the first person to allow me to this having happened. I don't know how that was the case, but he was. And then like later that we kind of saw a general thing about it.
And he was like saying something along the lines of like, you know, like they don't want people to talk about it and like what is it? And like you hear those kinds of things and you're like, as far as conspiracies go, I can understand somebody feeling that way about stuff like that where like where it would be preferred for these kinds of things to be covered up because of the fact that the railway companies have done such a terrible job of maintaining that infrastructure.
So you can understand at least the railway companies wanted to cover something like that up, right? So like those kinds of things, you're like, all right. Okay. And I see why such a thing is enticing enough to you that you could imagine there being a conspiracy because there are definitely people in the world who want that to be a conspiracy for their own ends like they want they want things to be conspired against.
But the flat thing I was like, no, I was saying to my look, here's the thing I want you to think about with this one, right? I said to him, it's like the type of the thing about the flat stuff is that because he's like, you know, they have some points that are like you don't know, but I was like, these people will say anything to try and make you believe them, right? Right? Because he's like, I'm like, all right.
So why is nobody ever taken a picture of this big ice wall that runs around the edge of the earth, right? And incredible. And he's like, well, no one's ever gotten a good picture of the earth from space. And I'm like, what? I'm like, no, no. I'm like, dude, all right. Look, Frederica, you just got a gut role. You're not going to be on this all right? You're not. I'm so jealous that you know one. No, you're not jealous. You're not. No, I am. I absolutely don't want this. You don't want this.
I do. I do. I want to have a good one. You think you do? But then when it's someone you care about, it's like, well, I'm losing you now. Is it Casey? No. I say it's, it's, you don't know this person. Like, you don't know this person. You've never met this person. You probably never will meet this person. Not for this reason. Because there's a conspiracy in our world. I'll allow it to happen. Please, please, I'm begging you. I'm going to introduce me to this person. No, because he's a nice guy.
And like, you know, he just, he spends too much time on Reddit. Like, everyone has his fuss in their life and like, you know, whatever. And yeah. And so it's just like, I hear him. It's like, look, I understand why you feel this way because these people are really good at arguing their points.
And like, the every point that you make, they have an account of point where, like, if you're susceptible, then they're just going to keep making their point back at you because this is all they have, right? The flat-off people is just to be able to argue the point against you. And they won't accept if, if we're, if logic is taken off the table, anything's possible. Right. And like, that's the thing about this conspiracy people.
They don't, you're trying to argue them with logic, but they don't want logic. And so they're powerful. They want to do a bi addition. Indeed. I don't remember how we got to this. Does you think that 9-11 was an inside job? I've not had that conversation, but I'm just saying that. I know, to bring up next time we see him. Ask him if he thinks that steel beams don't melt. Okay, moving on. The clips was, was incredible. It gets darker and darker, and then it like clicks into place.
And like, the street lights come on. But the freakyest thing is how cool it gets outside so quickly. Like, you wouldn't think like three minutes of, basically, it being nighttime would make the temperature drop the way that it does. But it gets, it gets chilly, like it, the temperature drops. When it's in totality, you can take off your glasses and see around the edges of it.
You can see pictures online, like little, I think about, I think about prominences, but it's like, it's basically like, big arcs of fire coming off the sun that expand beyond the edge of the moon. You can see those in some of those pictures. There's also an interesting story here where there's this picture that's loaded around. You've probably seen it on social media. We're like, it's like the shadows are brought away, so you can like see the moons, features, and the sun behind it.
And people like, the James Webb telescope took this. The James Webb telescope did not take that. The telescope is not where it took that picture. That picture is probably, that picture is generated somehow either AI or someone doing multiple exposures. Like, it's not, not what it says it is. It's really enjoyable, really a special moment with the family and then the hour and a half trip took six and a half or seven hours to come home. And my tech angle here is using Apple Maps initially.
And it just like, it kept like getting me off the interstate to go down like a side road for like a mile than back on the interstate. Like it couldn't figure out what it wanted because traffic was so bad. And this part of the country, there's only a couple of places like to like cross the Mississippi River. And so a lot of people flew into Memphis and then drove into Arkansas, the next state over where totality was. And the traffic was just unbelievably bad.
And I switched to Google Maps at some point is like, Apple Maps is freaking out and try Google Maps. Google Maps eventually took me and thousands of other people because I was in bumper to bumper traffic for hours down a gravel road in Arkansas. At some point, like a void part of the highway. That was an adventure, but we made it home and it was, it was a lot of fun. If you get a chance to see one of these things, it is well worth it.
Take the time from work and if you have to travel and can make, make it work for you, it is, it is really cool. Did the kids, did the kids enjoy this stuff? Like they do. They do. They find it cool too. They do find it cool. The older two remember the last one in 2017, but our youngest was only three years old then. So he remembers the trip. It doesn't really remember, you know, kind of what we were doing. So he was really into it and they were all like, you know, kind of freaking out of that.
Al gets dark and cool and you know, you see this guy kind of in this way that you don't see it every day. There's an old episode of liftoff. I think it's liftoffs 50. It is 54. It is 54. For Jason and I, both traveled for it last time and then recorded audio during the eclipse and then talked about it the next day. That's a really good episode that you should go check out.
I have a tech angle as somebody who did not experience the eclipse of how the iPhone ruins the eclipse or like people, what people say about the eclipse because people post pictures or they send pictures to me and let look how dark it is, but it looks like daylight. Because the iPhone, right, it's the night mode, right? It's like, look how dark it was. It just looks like like the early afternoon.
Like I don't know why you're supposed to be showing me, but the night mode photo is not helping you in this scenario because it was, I think you sent a picture of the kids. It's just like it just looked like daytime. Yeah. It doesn't look like anything. Yeah. What do you worry about that picture? It's a night mode picture taken at like two o'clock in the afternoon, you know.
But it is, it is cool. I mean, you know, people, like even I did, you know, took a photo with my phone through the eclipse glasses. It's one of those things where like I, I did a couple of those, but like I wanted it to kind of experience it. It's like I can go down a little wallpaper later from NASA. So I don't have, and I don't really have the gear to shoot something like that. You have to be pretty careful not to blow up your stuff. Oh, really? Yeah, you're shooting into the sun.
Like you got a, you got a, like a tape piece just at a sun and at a time my iPhone. It was a great job, you know. Do you want to know where the word eclipse comes from? Please. So it's from no from Greek ancient Greek Greek. I believe so it was from the verb pardon me if I get the accent front, Ecclapal. And the word was Ecclapesis, Ecclapal, the verb means to abandon and the meaning was the basically missing sort of like the sun abandoning the sky. That's why it's called an eclipse.
Can you imagine the first people that saw this happen? Yeah. That was like, but like now you can see our guests there, right? Was that like, what's the sun come back? Where's it going? And then it comes back. It's like, yeah, that was worrying for a second. Yeah, very cool, very cool. Federica, you shared this Reddit link with us the other day about the second. These two guys fishing and then they have because that is on a fish. That is totally my kind of energy and vibe.
Like those two guys, the guy you put the sunglasses on a fish and sort of like, is it all dinner? Please find, yes. So he's just holding up a fish to make him enjoy the eclipse. What's just having a good time? One of the top comments, blinding Nemo. But you know what's so great about this is that guy, love that fish so much. He sacrificed his own eyes. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. The guy was holding the fish took his glasses off and put them on the fish. Yeah. Yeah. Blimey Nemo. Blimey Nemo.
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So go there now, check it out, ecam.com slash connected with code connected. Are there extra ecam for the support of the show? All right, let's talk about other unworldly things, emulation in the app store. To everybody that says that regulation cannot bring about competition and innovation, this is an example of how you're up. Somebody, some people say that. Yeah, I think people say that, right? I feel like this is one of the things that people say these days.
Like there are lots of takes, like a lot of the time. This is one of them. Not too many of them. There are too many takes. Regulation would stop any form of innovation. Like if you have governments telling companies what to do, there's, there, there, there, there.
Well, this is a scenario where I think Apple seems so concerned about the possibility of people wanting to install Alt Store and the EU that they have changed the guidelines of the app store to allow for emulator apps to exist worldwide. The retro game console emulator apps, okay, tonight in a minute, and also another part of it, you are responsible for all such software offered in your app, including ensuring that such software complies with these guidelines and all applicable laws.
That second part to me is purely so Apple can wipe their hands of any situation and call it. Yep. Yep. They don't care. Really, for me, is the retro game console part? That is why I'm intrigued about is like, what is deemed as retro and that's going to be interesting and interesting to see how and when these first apps start getting submitted to the app store, if they are not.
So I think I think a pretty good rule of thumb would be, for example, in the case of user, like is this emulator for a console that is right now on sale? Like is it an object that you can go to a best buy or something and purchase and user was, I mean, it was emulating the current Nintendo system. Because obviously there was not even like a great territory, like it was just, you know, it was a risk and it was very risky and the user folks know that it was risky.
But is a Game Boy Advance retro game console limited? Yes. Is a Sega game gear a retro game? Yes. Well, here's what I'll ask you though, what about the fact that you can buy these games on the Switch? That's where it gets, that's where you get the truth. Right. So I'm just an intent though, it's even companies like, I mean, Microsoft, they have an entire division dedicated to making sure that you can purchase those old Xbox One games and play them in 4K on your current Xbox. Playstation.
Playstation. Yeah. Playstation, they let you download PS4 games and play them on PS5. So it gets kind, it is tricky to answer. But realistically, you know, I think, you know, it's one of those things where, you know, when you see it, like an arcade machine emulator, that's probably going to be fine. Again, by emulator, that's going to be fine. A DS emulator, probably fine. A 3DS emulator, probably not.
Like I think there's going to be a recent ZBIAS applied here, like is this console kind of recent so that it may be tricky to accept it in the App Store. I think that's sort of the kind of thing that we will see. But also, as we spoke about a few episodes ago, the laws surrounding emulators, it's complicated, right?
We discuss like all the legal precedents that exist in terms of like fair use when it comes to emulators, emulators that try and replicate the BIOS of a console versus emulators that don't include the BIOS at all. And they ask you to provide your own BIOS file. Like for example, there's a bunch of PS1 emulators or Nintendo DS emulators that ask you to bring your own firmware and bring your own BIOS file if you want to use the emulator.
So I think we're going to, we will witness amazing things, I hope, because of this change. And my hot take for today is that the European Union, long term, it will go down in history as one of the best things that ever happened to Apple and the App Store. But most American bloggers right now, they're too short-sighted to see it. And so this is just one example of regulation actually helping competition and helping Apple realize that maybe some things are okay for the App Store.
So that's my take. Here's something I can't wait for it to happen. And I really hope that this happens and we hear about it. The first emulator that gets rejected for the app doesn't do anything. Because it doesn't have games. Because it doesn't have games. But you have to, but you have to be responsible for the games inside of the app. But what if you don't make a game boy game? I'm very excited for when that and never to be happens because that's a rule, right? Like it's a thing.
Your app has to be functional. Well, an emulator cannot be functional until the games are in it. But then Apple is going to be like, well, you have to be responsible for the games inside of the app. I think so. Obviously, I don't think Apple is stupid, right? And I think what they will do here is they will take a look at what's going to be successful via third party marketplaces in the European Union. And they, because they will see the numbers, they will see the interest from people.
And I think it would be silly not to think, well, if X millions of people are signing up for an alternative marketplace and they're downloading, they're seeking these sort of experiences, why don't we just change the app store in such a way where the developers are actually incentivized to bring those experiences to the app store? And so in return, we're still going to make money, you know?
And so they will probably use the, all these EU stuff as a way to gauge interest for certain types of experiences that are not allowed on the app store right now. And emulators are just the first shoot to drop, so to speak. I think we're going to see more and more of these kinds of things. I think of all of the types of apps that they could have offered. Like this is maybe the most ridiculous in the sense of like Apple's history and the things that they have done and not done, right?
Because you've got that one thing I just mentioned, right? Like the apps have to be functional. Well, they can't be functional just inherently based upon what they are. Don't forget, this was a company until like three or four months ago wouldn't allow for a game streaming app to exist because Apple wanted to approve all of the possible games that could. Right. And now they're like emulators. Yeah, I mean, sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, of course.
And also just like it feels to me like realistically for Apple's perspective, just an unnecessary set of legal trouble to get themselves into like Nintendo will will 100% without shadow of it out as soon as the first Nintendo emulator is on the app store sent season to sister Apple. And then what does have they sent season to Google? Have they sent them to Google on the Play Store? Much love to Google, right? Apple is different. It's just different. Well, let's see. Apple is just different.
Like they are and because it will, here's the thing, right? Like emulators exist for Android and have existed for a long time. It's going to be a big friggin deal when there is a Nintendo 3DS or Nintendo DS emulator for the iPhone. Dolphin emulator for the GameCube and we on an iPhone from the app store. I am, I am living for that moment. Yes, but you know, this is the thing when that happens, it's going to be a big deal, right? Yeah. Nintendo, who is a partner of Apple's.
Mm-hmm. Yeah, I, I'm very intrigued for what is going to happen for when or if this inevitably happens. It's all just so strange to me. Like this is the first thing when I like, oh, okay, emulators are right. And I don't get it. How some people cannot love these chaos right now. Like it, it's, it's amazing. Like what we are witnessing, I think. Like I don't know how some people don't like this. It's, it's incredible. Like this remake enough of the app store and there are very eyes.
It's, it's fantastic. I love it. I mean, it would be easier to love if all of these changes were worldwide, which they're not. Yeah. Right. Like, this isn't easy. But there will be a thing to enjoy if, if all this stuff could be done. And it was also just done in a way where a lot of people could actually take advantage of it.
Like most Europeans aren't even going to be able to take advantage of the stuff because most developers want opt in for the stuff because Apple's still not, and still not, uh, are still resisting as much as they can to make this a thing that developers want opt in to. Like there are scenarios where this could be loved more, uh, if it was done better. We have some more Apple and AI news.
Uh, sorry, some anonymous feedback on the realm model, which we spoke about last time to understand the context of what a user is doing based on what is on screen, uh, anonymous rights. We do know the size of the models used by Apple in their realm paper. They use a previously released LLM at different numbers of parameters, 80 million, 250 million, one billion and three billion and then fine tune the model with their desired use case. Um, and those are listed in table three.
I think I just missed them when I write that paper, uh, for context, GPT 3.5 from open AI uses 175 billion parameters. But GPT 4 is rumored to use 1.76 trillion. So that's a bit more. It's a bit more, a bit more. Yeah. A bit more parameter. Right? Yeah. How do they work? The other thing. Yeah. I don't know. Uh, the more you have the better. So, um, yeah, cool. And then we learned more this week about ferret UI.
This is related to the ferret ferret model, which we spoke about on a previous episode. This looks at, uh, screens of user interface and, uh, to execute open ended instructions. So this kind of stands on the shoulders of those stuff we spoken about. Um, and, uh, Finn Voorhees was talking about this on Macedon. I felt like you had a very funny quote post. One way or another, it always goes back to GUI scripting in the end.
Yeah. I mean, uh, it's, it's interesting that, you know, we took this long trip around all kinds of automations and then we're going to circle back to the idea of, well, what, what if the computer controlled the interface? What, what if a system could control the interface of your computer?
And so it used to be that back in the day when you put together this kind of janky apple scripts, you know, to, to simulate clicking around screen and, and have this visual automation going on and, you know, tons of people still do that using tools like Kibro Mastro or Automator or Apple script, um, uh, you know, this idea of every UI element of macOS is, or tends to be individually address, addressable by a script.
And so you can do things like open settings and click on this icon and then click on this tab and then open a check box and then scroll down. And here to, to, to, to see these examples of, uh, ferret UI using machine learning and AI to train a model to use an interface and in this case, the shortcuts app, um, I think it's very fascinating that we're ending up where sort of where it all started, right? Um, I think it's interesting.
And I don't want to, I don't want this to sound like I'm making fun of this idea because I think it's such an incredible technology and visual automation, UI automation is something that I have used myself a lot of times when there was no native, for example, Apple script dictionary or shortcuts, shortcuts integration for something that I wanted to do on macOS.
And I also think it comes with some seriously powerful accessibility, um, potential, like DIDA that, uh, you can empower folks with modern impairments or, or vision impairments to actually do something and, or tell the computer to do something that can only be done with interaction, uh, to do it programmatically by, you know, using AI to work with an app on their behalf.
I think it's such an incredible idea and I wouldn't be surprised if we start seeing, uh, the beginning of this implementation as part of an accessibility feature, uh, in the next version of iOS because I think it totally makes sense to offer it as, you know, like Siri can now, uh, interact with apps for you or something like that. What's so clever about this type of, of automation is that anyone potentially can do it because it is a fallback, right?
Like, when we say UI scripting, what I mean is like keyboard, my stroke can do this. You get a screenshot and give it to keyboard, my stroke, like when you see this on the screen, click it, right? So like, or when a dialogue comes up with this text on it, click the okay button for me. And it, it opens the door to automation that otherwise there's not ways into, uh, but also it's much friendlier to end users than something like Apple script or even shortcut survive.
If you can just tell it, Hey, I want you to do this, this and this and I go and click on the mouse and tell it what I want it to do. And it can do it for me again in the future. Like, it's very interesting. I'm, I'm really interested to see where this goes in the future. Reuters is reporting that Apple has made a deal with shutter stock to license their images for training data. Huh. The value of the deal was likely and need somewhere between 25 to $50 million range, uh, according to report.
I'm just said to have been signed in the months following the release of chat GBT in late 2022. They're also looking to license images from photo bucket as well, um, which is a, it's like one of those things that's a name I've not heard for a long time.
Yeah. Uh, I have a memory that I've spent a lot of time today trying to find evidence of and cannot that Apple did a deal like this before or at least made reference to doing a deal like this before when they were training their machine learning model to detect faces and photos and stuff that they worked with a company like a shutter stock, but like, they, they licensed imagery to train that model because like, people are like, how did you do it? And that was the way that they did it.
Yeah. You can find anything. These, these words and phrases are way too hard to Google now, like machine learning, model training, photos, like it's too hard. In 2017, they acquired a computer vision startup that was particularly working on searching for things with images and that came out iOS 11 around that time. So maybe that's what you're thinking of, but I'm not sure.
It was specific to think my memory anyway, specifically around how they created their like person to like, this is this person like, oh, this is this thing. Anyway, it doesn't matter. If you know, send us feedback. Look, Apple's got to do this, right? If you don't pay for content to train your models, you just go off scraping on the internet and everyone sues you, check in on OpenAI is doing, right? That is something they're, they're dealing with now. Apple doesn't want that liabilities.
Of course, they're going to go to these companies, but these companies have a complicated relationship with AI tools. I just looked at shutter stock support stuff in preparation for this. There's kind of three big points with shutter stock. One, they have their own generative AI tools through a partnership with OpenAI. So you can use Dolly and other tools within the shutter stock system. However, they don't allow you to submit AI generated images to their library of stock photography.
And they license their stock images out to companies for AI training like this Apple deal and potentially others. And so these companies like, they're all really dealing with this, really trying to sort all of this out. I mean, this comes not too long after Reddit sold rights to all of its user content to Google for arguably not nearly enough money. I don't know how users of shutter stock feel about that, but it is something that is going to continue to be in the conversation, right?
Like if stuff just that on the internet and you make it available and you don't tell and your, you know, your robots.txt, you don't tell OpenAI and others not to crawl it, then you're effectively letting them crawl it by omission. And that's free. Even though other people may be paying for it, it's all very complicated and messy. And while the, it's not in a way, it's not that different than Google or being crawling the web for search results, right? This is, I don't agree with that.
Well, it's the same, but it's also different, right? It's in the same, the agreement, like the implicit agreement with Google is like, you will then send the post into me, right? Yeah. And they get in trouble when they don't. Yeah. And now it's like, we're just not going to bother sending anyone to anywhere. Potentially.
I mean, that was a big debate with, with co-pilot and being in Sydney or whatever it was called that day, where they would have the sort of basically the bibliography at the end of the thing that I put together. This is where I got this information. Now, no one's clicking those. If you've gotten the answer, why would you click a link? Well, that's the exact thing that Google search results is in hot water for, right?
They pull out information into those boxes and no one ever goes to the help website ever again. Yeah. They are related issues. But they don't do that for everything, right? They do that for something like category types. With the AI stuff, they're doing it for everything. They're just giving you the entire answer anyway. Yeah. So Apple continues to inch in this direction of big stuff. I'm sure coming at WBC.
I can't expect this to be a sort of a regular segment on the show for a while as we learn more about what Apple is up to here. This episode of Connected is made possible by ExpressVPN. When you have kids, you're always on the lookout for any extra layers of security you can provide as a parent. If your kids use technology, using a VPN can help encrypt your kids activity online. Every device, phone, computer, tablet, they all have unique IP addresses.
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According to the information Johnny Ive and Sam Altman, the once and again boss at Open AI have officially joined forces on creating an AI hardware product. This was first reported back in the fall. But now it's like this is now moving forward with a new company. So they're doing it. They're doing something. Well, last time it was like a hey, they're meeting about this thing. Maybe they're going to do something and soft bank or interested and maybe they're going to pour a bunch of money into it.
But they don't know what it's going to be yet. They're just like playing around with it. Then Sam Altman as you reference got fired and hired, which may have slowed things down a bit. Although this it's not entirely. This isn't an open AI product though, which is like this funny thing about Sam Altman. The way that I have read the like some reporting is like Sam Altman's involved and open AI may or is involved, but it's not like the open AI thing.
It's in the same way that like Sam Altman is invested in the AI pin. You may be in pin, like he's just putting it in one everywhere. Same as like there's this chip company that he's trying to start. That may have been at the heart of his outster at open AI. Because it wasn't open AI, right? This is like this is his kind of thing. He's just like trying a bunch of stuff and then maybe he'll then have the second company. He's first company. That's his product anyway.
So, Ive has been tasked with securing a billion dollars in funding. I don't really know why Johnny Ive has been given the shop. My expectation is it's like it's some joint venture between the two and Sam Altman's going to raise money and Johnny Ive's going to raise money. And also I imagine there is a different type of person that would give Johnny Ive money to Sam Altman and vice versa. So they can kind of split and conquer that way.
Because Johnny Ive is apparently one of the people he's in conversations with is Loram Power Jobs, who's VC firm Emerson Collective would be potentially putting this money in to a Johnny Ive. Johnny Ive, a-I-Pen, a Johnny Ive Humane pin. Yeah, probably is not disammered to that. Not of the point on these things, the same as the Humane thing, it's the same as the Raba R1, which I had a thought about this the other day. The Raba R1 is that red thing that looks like a play date.
Yeah. Do you think Panic knew about this? Like, and I was teenage engineering with the design. But like, I'm not trying to style any drama. It's just a question. I was like one that is to myself, which is just like, I wonder if this is one of those things. We're like, teenage engineering design is thing for Panic to make the play date. And they're like, I wonder if like, who owns the design or like, who thinks they own the design? I mean, it's very similar.
It doesn't have a crank, but it has a scroll wheel. It's a red play date. Like, it's a red play date. Like, it looks exactly the same. And I just wonder if this is one of those things that are like, they're like, ah, looks familiar. Anyway, I don't know. Yeah. But all of these things are like, this is not a smartphone. Right. This is not a smartphone. Is there any of these things succeed? I know it's such a hard question to answer. I'm going to say something. I think of all these products.
I think something like the Humane AI pin has more chances to succeed than the Rabbit R1 because the rabbit, I mean, you're still holding a screen, right? And if you're holding a screen, like, it's, it's basically replacing holding a phone, like holding a rectangle with holding a square. Whereas I think if we go down this, like, if we play along with this argument that something is going to replace the phone, it's going to be something that is always on.
And so I think I'm much more intrigued by something that you strap to your clothes or something that is always on and accessible in your hands are free. That is why I'm fascinated by the AI pin and why I'm fascinated by something like the Rayband glasses. You know, those are not AI, but the idea is the same. Like, you have something that is always on, your hands are free and you can still capture information around you and, you know, take photos and videos, whatever.
My main issue right now with this device is the latency and this, and this, like, who's going to, who's going to be at the supermarket holding a square thing, like a play date thing in their hands? For like 20 seconds staring at a box of cereal and be like, hey, can you give me the calories of this thing? You're going to sit there like an idiot, capturing a picture of a box where you could just grab the box and look at the calories yourself. Who's going to do that? I generally have no idea.
That's actually one of the things which is in service to the humane, right? Where you're just like, you kind of do that, you just carry on and it's doing its thing and you're not like staring at it like while waiting for it to do it. But there's still latency with the pin, right? Because that processing in the cloud takes a lot of time to go up and then to process and then to come down.
But at the very least, it's not like a model interaction in the sense that you're waiting with the thing in your hands for a response to come back, right? So at least it's got that going for it. Yeah. So I don't know. Question for you, buff. Did either of you watch the second humane video? Yes, I did. The one where it's called, what is AI pin? How much better video? Like much better. Much better. I think this video, if this was the first video, wouldn't have been written so bad.
Like you can make your own decision about wherever you think it's good or bad or not. But like it was just a better video. Yeah. Look, if I could buy one in Italy, I would buy one. You know, of all these products, like if I could and I cannot because it's US only. I would get one. I should have stopped you. No, literally I cannot use the data. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Would not work.
But like I am super intrigued by these ideas so many times, like I've been in situations where like I would have taken a picture of something. If it wasn't so cumbersome to like get my phone from my jeans and then you know, you know, there's a friction with grabbing a phone, especially, especially if you do what I do where in social situations, I try to keep my phone away.
And so like it's in my pocket or something or like it's in the inner pocket of my jacket, for example, like I try not to use my phone if I'm around people, but to have like something that either it's glasses or something that is trapped to my t-shirt, like something that was always there. What about the met or met or rebands, if you consider those? I am actually thinking about them for this summer, if I could get them with a prescription or something. You can get prescription lenses from?
I know, I know. And I think I'm going to do it for the summer, yeah. I could see why they have in a moment. It's like, yeah, that's a pair of rebands. It just look like a pair of rebands. Like it's, it's an easier thing to do. Yes, put them on a fish, you know, let's go. Put them on a fish. Then I get the fish to ask a question. That's right. Oh, I'm out of the water, what's an eclipse?
But this is also why, like I think we discussed this like a few weeks ago, like that crazy rumor of Apple putting cameras in AirPods. Like yeah, like that's exactly the kind of thing that I would like. Like I'm always going out wearing AirPods and imagine if that little thing could take a picture of what's around me or in front of me. Yes, totally. Like that idea of let me capture an experience or moment quickly with no interaction with the screen, I'm on board.
Yeah. But I think that I agree with the humane pen is interesting. Like I would like to try one. I don't want to buy one, but like I look at it and I'm like I can understand how this could be cool if it worked well. I'm still not sure it works well. Like I feel like I need to see other people having used it, right?
Which I guess will come at some point in the not too distant future because they, you know, they made a video where it seemed like they didn't pay a lot of attention to it and the thing made a bunch of mistakes. And then they made a second video where it looked more impressive. But now you know they must have paid more attention. And so like I feel like, you know, this is kind of like a for me once kind of thing.
But I actually now want to see somebody who not from humane make a video about how it works or doesn't, right? Where if they would have, if the original video would have been the first video, then I would still remain and I'm like, oh, this actually seems pretty cool. Wherever they're like, I'm not sure this works at all or works very well or works reliably. But the, the, the, the ideas that they have are interesting ones.
But I think where it starts to fall apart is this like it does a bunch of smartphone things. It's like, yeah, but like I know why you're doing that. But like I don't want to have another phone number for texting people like I don't, I don't want that. Like there is all these like this with stuff. And so I just kind of wonder like it's a question. I've been asking myself when thinking about this stuff and like we're looking at this report. Something has to replace the smartphone eventually.
But how, how much of what a phone does is it going to need? Because smartphones replaced regular phones, right? And so there was, there was a set of things that it needed to do. I don't know if I know what that set of things is. It's not the same set of things, I think. Yeah. And I don't know what that set is realistically today.
And I think that's going to be whoever can come up with what that exact set of things is plus all the new things that it can do that smartphone can't do or it does way better than a smartphone. Like that's where the winner is. But I don't know, I don't know what that set realistically is or what people are willing to trade off if they ever experience this so good. Now I think and you know, if you consider the, like the long timeline of the future of the human race, right?
Like what's going to replace the smartphone? I think if you go down at a very basic level, like you need to consider the primary impulses that motivate us as people. Like why do we use smartphones because the phones they help us deal with our primary impulses as a race, you know, like essentially like money, food and sex. Like those are primary drivers usually for people with the general goal of this blurry concept of happiness.
So the way that society will evolve to accommodate those primary impulses for that goal of happiness, that's how computers will evolve, right? And so that and that sounds incredibly hand-wavy and philosophical and I know that but like the smartphone was successful because it gave us a better way to deal with those things that drive us on a daily basis, right? It's a better way to get into three people, to order food, to get work done, make money therefore and chat with friends and partners.
The next thing that's going to replace the phone is going to be better or preferable at doing those things than whatever we're using now. That's the way I look at it. Like fundamentally we got to understand how society will change to understand what's going to replace the phone, right? That's how I look at it. And I think realistically the phone is going to be with us for a long time still.
Just like cars are still with us and we're only trying to modernize cars now with EVs but they're still cars, right? It's one of those really truly once in lifetime kind of inventions that in order to be replaced something far far far far better needs to come along and I'm not sure that holding a rabbit or one in your hands is that thing. But if you're Sam Orton, there's no one better in the world today to partner with, right? Ben Johnny Ive? Absolutely. Yeah, he's like I for it.
Yeah. I don't know if anybody has this answer but if there's someone like if you have like a short list of people who might be able to get you to that answer, you have to use history as a predictor of that because it's what else do you have, right? Like you can't know everyone in the world. I mean what you get the guy who was there for the Mac and the iPhone.
Like, well not the Mac. The iPod, the iPhone, the iPad, the iPad, the iPad, the iPad, the the iMac, the Apple Watch, the iPhone, the iPad, AirPods, like eMac. What a resume that man has. You know what I'm saying? God, unbelievable. I love Johnny Ives so much. And I just, if I was Sam Orton, I'd be like, yeah, what does he want? Like if I'm going to give this a go, like actually going to truly give it a go, I'll give that guy whatever he wants.
He might not be able to do it but I'd put my money on him before anybody else I think. It is interesting. But I tend to be less positive about anything replacing the smartphone and any sort of reasonable time frame. It didn't replace the personal computer. It supplemented it. All right. It's still still here. Now some people it's their only computer, right? But it definitely stands on the shoulders of it. As don't know, it's really hard to beat the smartphone. People like their phones.
Something Jason says all the time, I'm talking about these AI products. People like their phones. Most people, I think a lot of people are like Federica, right? In certain settings, I don't have my phone to be with me. The Apple Watch can fill that gap for a lot of folks. But generally people like their phones most of the time. And it's hard to beat something that's always with you that has a great camera, great screen, fast connectivity, all of your data.
It's a pretty perfect combination of things. But to your point, if someone's going to do it, maybe it's the guy who helped him vent it in the first place. But this is where I go back to what we were saying earlier about the EU. This is where people in our world and the Apple world may have the hope that the Department of Justice has a case.
Because if people like their phones, which they do, and you want something that doesn't get rid of the phone, but is in addition to the phone, like the phone was in addition to a computer, no one can make this product for an iPhone. Which is why humans doing what it's doing, is why rabbits doing what it's doing. Because if you want to work with the iPhone, you cannot integrate with the iPhone because you're not Apple. They won't let you. And so this is that thing, right?
The Apple Watch argument, which make a bit what you will, but there are elements too, which is true. Right? Where Johnny I have in San Markman cannot make a product that can integrate with what's on your iPhone. Should they be able to? I don't know, but Apple can. If they want to. Yeah. Well, that does it for this week. If you want to find links to the stories that we spoke about, I check out your podcast player, they're also on the web at relay.fm slash connected slash 4 97.
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