right, CoRey, what are we talking about today?
Today, Duke, we got something special for him. We've got, you want, is it Forrest Green, Ben,
It is for screen. Yeah. As a matter of
Okay, cool. Awesome. All right.
In between last time I was on the show and now I've got married, as you guys know, at knowledge, this year, which was pretty cool. So.
Yes.
But, I'm glad you guys let me, hang out and chase you down and talk at you and everybody else, on the show. Because I was like yelling at my car, radio, like listening to the podcast last week and there were lots of like, Oh my God, yes. And, and what about it like this? And don't forget to tell them about that. So, I guess, a CTA mini boss, yells at car stereo while listening to podcast. So
I love it. Mini boss,
yeah, it's one of those things like when Ben asked to come on the episode, we're like, yeah, like,
right?
good times. It's good times. you guys are always on the cusp or on the pulse of whatever's happening, whether intentional or not, although I suspect it's very intentional. So, one thing in particular last weekend you guys were talking about. So where does gen AI fit, and then different levels of complexity in the platform and, what architects need to know.
And, I feel like the table stakes to, to call oneself an architect these days, continue to get higher as more and more people start to understand. the kind of standard data abstractions that we've got in the platform, the traditional people do stuff to things. Everybody kind of knows that now, right? Everybody understands how task tables work.
And, it's a different world than the one we started with, 10 or 15 years ago when there was one handful of tables and, none of the different, UI pages or methods or other, uh, data abstractions that we have access to now. So I feel like everybody's got that started.
I just did a thread on that on LinkedIn the other day. Joshua Saxton said, Hey, I'd love to hear a story about service now as it was back in the day. And so I'll drop the LinkedIn, link in this description below, but it was a lot of fun going back and. Just realizing just how far the platform would come.
There's so much that's different now than it was when we got started, but so much that's also still the same. And, I think that's 1 of the, that's some of the magic of service now for me is that. You can still pick it up, like having started 10 years ago and still if you understand the platform, like every new thing that's built on top of the platform, you still start off like, what a head start on it, on anybody, on anyone else. and that's what I like about it.
Well, so it not only has it evolved, from what you can see just from the interface layer, right? 15 years ago, it was still just one stack. It was, a Linux box that was running, Apache Tomcat with an application node and a database node at the time it was, MySQL. These days, if you're in the data center as a production instance, you're still all the way down to the bare metal. They manage those at the using Linux C groups, right?
So you own your stack all the way down, but now instead of just a handful of app nodes in a database node. Depending on what you've got installed, you have another, like things like metric base, right? Running as a note in that same stack, you've got, potentially, call outs using integrations that use the Microsoft Azure, collaboration proxy that goes directly to an Azure data center. If you've got.
Depending on what kind of data you've got coming in and out, you've got, our implementation of Kafka and Flink, doing data streaming out to other sources or consuming Kafka streams, right? Like your data is not in the same kind of, Simplified context that it used to be. There's messaging buses and systems and services and triggers and all this and that, right. It's a little bit more complicated and robust now.
and now you can even go and just buy yourself a tenancy in Azure or in AWS, if you want to just spin up service now on a virtual stack somewhere else.
Wait, what?
Yeah, you guys hadn't seen that?
I think I missed
Oh, yeah. So earlier this year, it was a race to see who could announce first Microsoft announced it first. And so in Azure, you can go and buy a service now tenancy and in your Azure data center, you can do the same thing in AWS now. So if you wanted to adjust your spend, or, spin up additional resources on your own, you can go do that now in those other two data centers. Now, it's not the same level of service and system and excellence. Microsoft You're not buying the Ferrari now.
you're maybe buying the Peugeot version of service now, uh, over in somebody else's data center. And you're also managing that risk and that performance and your spend. But yeah, we announced those, just earlier this year.
Wow.
It's kind of bonkers, right?
yeah, that's pretty awesome. Right? I can see that opening up a whole lot. we're going to have to come back on, on that one, Ben and do a deep dive on that one on another show. That's that one took me, that's, that took me away by surprise. I got so many questions, what I wanted to say though, is that I think it's amazing. The tour you just get a virtual tour of the data stack, right?
Of service down that you just gave us, from, talking about the under the hoods aspects, because I don't know that I've ever heard it presented in that way, or at least with that level of detail and specificity around, the Kafka and Linux and all those sorts of things. And, typically, I think, this is a platform in the sky, right? and you don't really get below that level of service now.
So it's really cool to hear about, how service now is running on actual hardware and software in the data center somewhere. Cause that's like my form of life as an ops
Right? Right? And the, the Ops piece has continued to evolve and grow, under the hood, well, the rest of the App that we see the interface layer that we get to, to mess around with and develop, in order to support all of those cool new features. And, it's interesting to, think about the way the new stack, has evolved in the last five years or so, right? With, a change in mindset and an understanding that data has, well, Even 10 years ago, we understood that data float, right?
And we talk about how people do, their traditional like system import stuff, and they bring data into the platform. You do your extract transform and load and whatever, but large scale enterprises data is either consuming or moving between huge federated environments sometimes. And so you have to think about, not just the service now end of the spectrum, but you've probably heard people talk about data warehouses or data lakes.
and we, I think a lot of big organization service now included are starting to understand and think more in terms of data meshes. So you remember Frank Slootman, who was our second CEO after Fred, right? If you look at what Snowflake's business is, it's about creating data streams and data messaging and basically your portability of cloud data across a whole host of services, right? So it's data as a service. I put a link in the chat here in StreamYard for you all to check out.
but it's one of those things that really changed my thinking about data governance. Cause ultimately we can't just have the data flowing in different places and you can't just stick it in a data lake, which eventually becomes the data swamp because it gets stale and yucky and you can't always rely on it. And you're having to basically train up and maintain a whole army of, engineers just to do and maintain all of those. ETLs, or extract, transform, and load jobs.
Instead, you got to think about it from a messaging bus service system, right? You got to think about data as it comes in. And, uh, it's a mosque Dhani, who I've linked to on the data mesh book, over on O'Reilly good old O'Reilly. Right.
around forever.
But, I would check out some of her thinking on this. you'll see that it's influenced a lot of, systems in the new era, the new stack of just thinking about. Everything that runs in our world these days is all just compute, and containers and, data and storage, right? That's it. And managing that across multiple systems, from an enterprise architecture standpoint and from performance standpoint, we think, or at least I think, we need to be thinking about all of this stuff as we design solutions.
That's at the high end of the architect spectrum, right? But I think even table stakes, like thinking about holistic solutions is really important.
I want to double click on that. holistic solutions.
So if you've got, a customer service management, Kind of thing. If you're making choices about what to customize, at what point do you decide to make that make or break decision to, to do some major customization versus trying to maintain, baseline deployment of service now, right. And it's about looking at the value proposition, what do you get for doing a customization? What does that buy you? Are you buying a net new capability that ServiceNow hasn't figured out how to do yet?
Or is it more about, buying goodwill in the organization to get people to do adoption more quickly? And do you do that knowing that you might eventually have to move? pay back some of that tech debt in a long term fashion and go back baseline after you've already bought the goodwill and the adoption within the organization. It's about trying to just decide, like I said, at a big picture level, using all of those elements, a holistic view, right? It's not just about treating the symptom.
It's not just about creating a solution right then and there. It's how is this going to affect the life of this organism that we call the enterprise? You know?
Yeah, I love how you framed it about around buying goodwill and adoption. Because for me, that highlights and really elevates that. A lot of your technical solutions have non technical drivers, right?
And so sometimes the choice between configuration isn't, always like just detect that aspect of it, can I maintain this or should I maintain this sometimes it's, if I can get this very influential group inside of the organization on board by doing something that's really custom for them, then they will throw their weight behind this thing internally. And now we can get it moving.
Sometimes you buy goodwill. Sometimes the drug of customization is sometimes used to, lessen the pain of adoption. Right.
Yeah, but knowing that up front, right? Having that, thought in your head when you're approaching these, conversations and knowing those things up front, I think are what allow you to make the decisions effectively so that you are managing that customization, right? Without it, without allowing it to manage you.
Totally. And I think that more generally, I think we have a better understanding in the ecosystem of what those trade offs are. we know what we didn't know before. And I think a lot of that was hard one learning, over time.
I'm going to go ahead and subtly disagree on that.
Oh,
Oh, yeah.
a certain layer of the most senior have certainly learned those lessons, but I feel like everything from the upper middle down is still learning those lessons. It's been the dark side of the explosive growth. every couple of years, a new swath of service providers come on the scene. They hire newer, cheaper talent who learn these lessons, get so excited about the platform and then it's like, oh, let's take all these cool things. We're learning, roll them up into an accelerator.
And that's how we'll get our services to go faster and more profitable per unit. And, it just feels to me like there's a, Two to three year rhythm of people who decide to sell all the stuff they've learned as a single package. you know what I mean? One gigantic update set,
Right.
and, and completely power screw somebody's instance. And, if you think about this year, next year, there will be more new people in the ServiceNow ecosystem than there are veterans
Mm hmm.
by a mile. I'm not blaming this on anybody. I'm not taking anybody down, but the reality is the aggregate ServiceNow platform is going to trend downwards sharply downwards because we will have more people that are very fresh. Zero best practice.
I think that's
Not even like I know you said don't do best practices, right? But zero like hard lessons.
yeah, you know, a lot of what you
sorry, go ahead,
know, go ahead and
I was gonna say, the dark side of the excitement about the platform. We love this platform. It can do anything is to take a posture of. Yes. Let me show you how, like, can we do this? Yes, absolutely. Let me get started today. And this is part of what you learn in the, architecture frame it. And what was the thing you said, Corey, like controlling the build before it controls you is that. Yes. You don't say yes to everything.
Okay, not in terms of like, will we do, will we not do, but also how we intend to do it. I'll break out the Amish metaphor again, if I'm not careful.
You know what? No. Well, so there's, a lot of validity in what you're saying, and I think that there's, there has been an intentional shift, at least internally, at the Mothership to create programs and systems and try to do the thing like where we build the barn or raise the barn, or like they do in, Japan, Every generation, they basically knock the temple over and then have all of the craftsmen and artisans come in and you've got a multi generational set, right?
The master gets to oversee the process, having been a journeyman the last time the temple was rebuilt and so on, right? To continue to share that operational kind of knowledge that's only gained from doing. And I, think that you're starting to see more and more programs try to address that. And. I've always seen the accelerator.
I know that it's kind of been the bane of a lot of, our existence having to come in and clean up after an accelerator, but in some ways the accelerator is like the starter house, right? It's like the cookie cutter, small house that somebody builds and the contractors build it that way, cause it's really easy and repeatable, but the person framing up or putting up sheet rock in that. starter house doesn't have the kind of visibility of, of how that house is going to live over time. Right.
And that's why they're kind of a little bit on the junkier side and people have to come in and fix it or, or do a renovation or somebody just moves up to the next house up.
that were true, I would say It's a tiny house where the template was a hoarder. Okay, so it's not only you don't you not only you not only get the frame and the utilities and all the electrical and all the driver, you get all of that. But you also get 30 years of newspapers
Mm hmm.
and fast food, take out bags and aluminum cans
And, and to your point. Yep.
And that's what you get.
And somebody thought it was a really good idea. Like, Hey, let's put an electrical outlet in the shower. Cause maybe that'll be helpful for folks. Right?
yeah, exactly.
I love it. I've been thinking a lot around, consulting and service now and how all this stuff comes together and, do some of this stuff, right? For me, like this deals down to this really, really simple 3 words and that's that consulting doesn't scale. Right? And I think a lot of this is really because after a certain point, as a consulting firm, you really got too many clients. And the solution that folks invent to that are like those accelerators and things of that nature, right?
Because now they're trying to get in and out as quickly as possible and trying to deliver You know, a, at least somewhat uniform experience between all their different clients so they can try to maintain a standard, but that doesn't work, right. Because the very definition of consultant is ad hoc, right. Nobody's the same.
And so when you go in and you try to deliver the same for people who aren't the same, like you just end up in this situation where you're delivering great to anyone, you might be delivering good, but often you're delivering average, sometimes poor. Right. And so I just think Where the industry is going and how do you get there and bring in and like when you said like new service providers show up and then they spin up a bunch of new resources and clients and go in.
The first few are always great. Because they're still below that scale selling. Right? Like you can go in and have, I don't know, whatever the magic number of clients is where you can deliver basically white glove service to all of them. But then what? But then that makes you popular. and then you ultimately like your reputation outgrows your ability to deliver it,
Well, and I think at that point you have to decide what lane you want to be in, right? You can't be all things to all people, just like the instance can't be all things to every department and everybody that wants it at all at the same time. And I've found over the years, if I want to have a reputation for excellence, then I need to be more than willing to say no to more people as that reputation is gained, and therefore I need to charge more for my time.
Yes.
I think that there is a place for all of the stratification, right? If you, if good enough is just meh, right? You get the average brown bat experience. There is a place for consultancies to fill that lane, right? They, get that through volume and through massive scale, but you know that you get what you pay for. You're taking the least expensive clothes off the rack and you're just wearing them. You're getting the 7 haircut. You're getting the gas station coffee, right?
If you wanted to have the higher tiers of service, I think that there's a set of expectations that, that have to come with that. And I think there's room in the ecosystem for all of those.
No, totally agree. it's 1 of the great things about the ecosystem is that it's so vast is that there are a lot of different lanes that you can slide into. Right? And really carve out a niche for yourself. You know, I just think I don't think often that, folks in this and who are. Planning out where that niche is going to be or thinking about it from this perspective, right?
Like I think about I need to be high end and they charge more and, I'm going to offset that by having fewer clients because this is the level of service that I can provide. Right. And versus I'm really good at this and I've run into this trap, right? Like I'm really good at this. Let me try to give it to as many people as possible. And you ultimately commoditize something that's. Better than the average, right? And you burn yourself out and ultimately deliver a poorer product.
Well, and I think the hope is, and I didn't learn this until much later in life, and I still regularly relearn this lesson about no, and about what my time is worth, And getting to a point where I understand that, okay, I've already leveraged that sweat equity, and delivered more than the customer paid for.
But the hope is, is that buys the reputational excellence that I can then start to charge more and be, and have a more reliable clientele or have a more reliable, stream where people are going to come for the reputation. Cause they know that you are par excellence, right? you do have to kind of. Sell that equity or burn up that equity earlier in your career. And then you have to find out when to make the transition. And I think that's the part I still struggle with.
I don't know about you fellas.
Yeah, I've got a buddy and so we've said charge more enough down that I'm going to actually go ahead and give him a shout out. so Thomas is a good friend of mine and him and his buddy. Buddy Patrick McKenzie, AKA patio 11 are all, huge in, hacker News. And one of the things that they're huge about is talking about charging more, right? once you understand the worth of your time, like charge more for it and deliver better to less, right? Instead of delivering, worse to more.
I learned that over and over once a year, at least, Ben, honestly, right? Because all projects look. Some of them look really exciting. And you want to get in there and you want to do the thing. Right. and it's like, well, no, you can't pay me 15 an hour to do it though. But it looks so cool. Maybe I want to.
Right. Right.
for me is when you can, when you can understand what an excellent solution is and know that it's not necessarily what the customer asked for. That's going to sound completely wrong. But you know how, like, when people ask for stuff, they can't really help but inject their idea of how it should be
Yes, yes.
and if you can basically extract the outcomes out of whatever it is they're asking for, extract the outcomes, and get them to the outcomes. You know what I mean? Well, navigate while navigating that hole, but that's not how I asked for it.
Yeah. Yeah.
Once you get to that state, then you have a consultative mindset because you can command more trust in the instance,
Mm hmm.
hey, I know it's not what you asked for, but this is going to get you closer to the outcome that you desire. So you have the soft skills of convincing people to do it. Your way on top of the, scar tissue of knowing what the better way is.
Right, right. And this is where some experience helps and or the ability to leverage the experience of others that you can refer to and say, Hey, I hear what you're asking for. Let me tell you that I've seen this go wrong. I've seen this break bad. In similar situations, here's where I've seen in the past this, how this can go the right way. And let's talk about what that looks like, in your situation. And those discussions are hard.
because I think people get, they get anchored biased, by the thing that they really want or that somebody told them like where the conversation started there. And they think in their head, they've already got the solution and they come to you to simply just implement it. And those of us who have been around the block long enough know that when it comes up and if a client or a customer is not able to. To take our advice. Well, you know what? We can always say no, right?
You come to me for the, and I used to run in this in creative work too, right? People really had this really strong idea and I would go, okay, well, that's not something that I would provide for you. Cause that's not what I do. Right. If you want that kind of style, or if you want that kind of thing that you want to go to these other people, but they'd be like, no, no, no. We heard you're really good. We want you to do it for us. And I would be like, well, part of why I'm really good. is that.
I maintain that standard through being able to say, here's what I know works and here's what I know would work for you or I believe would work for you. And if you don't like that, then, I can always take another client is the thinking. And that's a level of privilege that it took a long time to get to and eating a lot of ramen. to be able to maintain, for in the early days.
Amen to that. Right? Like, I think one, I think you really just define like what as consultants we get paid to actually do right. Like we don't get paid to say yes, we get paid to say no. Right.
right. You're buying our expertise. not necessarily. If you want somebody to just do the work again, I'll take that house metaphor. If you want just somebody to do what you want done and you want to design it yourself because you believe, you know, best, just go hire a framer or contractor and tell them what you want. Like you might.
You're not going to get the level of expertise where you're going to get potentially happiness out of what you just built, or you're going to have to learn the hard way, that the things that I was just trying to explain are like, here's, what's going to happen when you build it that way. Or if you design the solution this way and that's cool. Like you, maybe you can get it done cheaper because you're not having to pay for that, that hard one expertise, and maybe you'll be happy with it.
But I'm gonna you just guess it probably you're not gonna be right and you're gonna have that little bit of regret and going Like man, if I'd only just you know, actually paid for the expertise to do this work. I wouldn't be in the situation. I am now
And
know, you know, what's crazy though, is that it's the whole payment for expertise thing. And I'm not saying it's all partners, but there are more than one partner where The expertise, how do I say, right? They get, they take their mid tier resources. They slap a senior rate on a senior resource who isn't really that senior and a company gets engaged with the whole partner, right? So they say, this is the partner we're going to use for all of our service now stuff.
And it's like, all of a sudden, I'm getting, like, the fraction of a fraction of a air quote, senior resource at a crazy rate. and on top of the wrench turning rates. When there are,
That's a good way to put it wrench turning rates.
yeah, but there's, tons and a lot more every day people like Corey and I, who do like freelance vendor, agnostic architecture, just toot our horn a little bit where our objective is not to put 1 more billable resource on your. Cue, our objective is to make sure you get the best result and you pay a little bit more for it, but you pay it to not be sold some new services and to only obsess about your outcome. Almost like a lawyer relationship,
right,
you know what I mean?
Like a lawyer relationship, right? Like we're looking out for you. That's the contract, right? Like your lawyer, when you show up in court, your lawyer can think you're wrong. Right. But they're going to zealously defend you to the best of their ability anyway. so it's the same thing for me. Like, when I show up to a client, I'm absolutely your person, right? you can be engaged with the partners. Actually, a lot of times I prefer that, right?
Because there's sometimes there are some projects that are bigger than my ability to deploy right within a reasonable amount of time. And so. Okay. Call me in and let me help you get the most out of the investment that you've placed in other partners or call me in before you pick the partner and let me help you pick the right partner for the thing that you're trying to get done. Right? Because I can do a lot of stuff, but I'm not the best at all of it.
Or just act as a foil,
Yeah, that too.
right, right.
I think 1 thing customers don't understand is that people who are employed by the partner to do the work at your site. Are beholden to the partner 1st. And so, like, you have, you have to tell your employers line, right? Not your employers customers line.
I've been trying to figure out how to frame that dude. That is so, that's so great because that's the thing.
yeah, and that's why it helps to have, an advisor of last resort almost. To say, okay, yes, what they are suggesting is a way here is an alternative way.
I like that. I like that a lot, right? It's the difference between, the fiduciary responsibility of a CPA, right? Who's, who's managing your books and helping you make good decisions on taxes and other investments versus, calling up the investment firm and they're there to sell you a product and make a commission, right? It's, Yeah.
no, this is exactly it. That's exactly it. It's been, you reached out, earlier in the week and just a little quick pivot here. Like you reached out early in the week. You say you were yelling at us through the, uh, through the speakers in the car, like on the last episode. So tell us a little bit about that.
So, uh, you know, obviously everybody, the year 2023 has been, the year of keynote speeches where somebody just walks up and says, they tap the mic. They're like Gen AI. And then like,
bye.
and then like the crowd goes wild and they drop the mic and they walk off stage and. I think sometimes when we get into talking about what is the architect's responsibility, in this day and age of where Genitive AI fits, it's more that kind of co pilot. I think too many people were getting really excited about being able to replace resources. it also isn't the kind of 10X, productivity booster that I think everybody makes it out to be.
You still got to have the kind of overall vision and understanding to play this at this level, right? And you got to know where it fits and where it can be deployed. And you'll note that ServiceNow has been really not slow moving, but slow moving by some standards. I think people have been like, hey, you guys are late to the ballgame here.
But I think we've been really careful and thoughtful about where it is appropriate to deploy and really testing and making sure that when we put it out there, It's not going to produce bad outcomes, right? we're only putting it in the places where we know it can be successful, at the level of quality that, we want.
And I, I know a lot of people are really excited about what's possible, but this is one of those things where pivoting back to some of the data governance stuff and complexity and thinking about where your data lives and where it goes. If we're training these large language models, where, who's holding on to the training data, which APIs are we using?
Are we using, our own internal LLMs versus, are we leveraging the Azure OpenAI, API calls, are we doing it over the open internet or are we using something like, I referenced earlier, the Microsoft collaboration proxy to do it privately between, your ServiceNow stack and the Azure API.
So it's like, Making sure that the people that are playing at our level in the game have an understanding and can speak intelligently about some of the concerns that people might have about privacy, where their data residency is, being able to speak to what's being, what their data is going to be used for and how it's going to impact some of these next generation tools. So I was yelling at the radio about that. Some of that.
And regulations, right? Like regular, like we can't leave that one out because regulations, cross border data, data access and things of that nature, right? I know we're not particularly strict about this in the U S but everywhere else is. Oh
latest executive order, basically put an end to what we used to jokingly call, bring your own API, where GCC and GCC high accounts were getting all juicy about trying to, and that's the government, regulatory like FedRAMP and DOD and GovCloud. People were getting all hungry for Ooh, cool. We can do more with less so we can, start leveraging some of these APIs. And, that executive order was like, Hey, wait a minute, let's just slow our roll for a second. Where is this data going?
Where is it living? and that kind of put an end to that. cause there were some legit concerns about where this data might end up and who could see the training data and. there's just questions I think that need answers first before we can start rolling with some of those tools in those environments.
There's almost like a direct relationship between what you just said and the amount of hype for something new.
Mm hmm.
Yeah. Yeah. There
harder they want you
on that.
like the harder they want you to adopt and, be part of the. Excitement capture, the more I can guarantee there's really important stuff, that hasn't been thought of yet. We don't even know where, the booby traps are
Right.
right. A few months ago, I'd say, When AI hype just seemed like every day there was like 10 YouTube channels that would advertise, here's like 15 AI tools that came out this week that you need to get or else you're not going to keep up and you're going to be poor, right?
Right.
After you get past all of that and the just absolutely dizzying, hypnotic marketing megaphone screaming in your fucking ear, after you get past that, then you get the whole things like, Oh, Well, we put all of our, company IP to be trained by this thing so we can help us design products and now people can use a clever prompt and ask this AI to give them my trade secrets.
And the marketing people don't stop for 1 second to consider that because don't think about product, just buy product and then get excited for new product.
Right.
Yeah, I mean, it is, it's definitely one of those things where are those downstream, vulnerabilities, don't necessarily surface in the marketing. Right.
I, I do want to say though, quick, Corey, sorry for interrupting. Like after I say that I have looked at what ServiceNow is doing, like for the things it intends to use Gen AI for, I am legit, legit, super stoked,
Right. And we're doing it in a safe and thoughtful way because, we've got people much smarter than myself even looking at this stuff and thinking about all of these really hard questions. and making sure that we are being reasonable about it, right? We're trying to move fast and fix things, kind of Francis Frey style rather than break stuff. and we're not pushing, we're not pushing the hype cycle.
Cause if you look at some of the hype cycle stuff, the only people that really benefited from that were some of the YouTubers and the streamers that were making lots of, ad revenue clicks, right. People watching their thing to make money fast using Gen AI. And none of the people that bought into that made any money. The only people that. got anywhere were the ones making the videos, convincing everybody else to make a lot of money, using Jenny and nobody else made money.
Funny that works that way. And the only, but only people that benefited were those handful of influencers and the companies with the training data that made really good use of that training data where everybody was pushing it. But yeah, we're moving a little bit more thoughtfully. And I think that's the differentiator. Somebody that wants to claim enterprise architect is thinking about the big picture questions, the big risks, not just, can we do it? Should we do it? What are the trade offs?
What are the risks? let's. Weigh this out.
Yeah, and those are things we didn't have to think about like way back when, right? because everything was really confined to the instance, right? and you just, you really just thought about, and it was mostly it only even back then, so there wasn't a whole lot of business, data. Yeah. Yeah, scope was smaller, right? Like, so the vulnerabilities that could arise weren't necessarily enterprise risking, right? But now they are,
Yeah. We don't have to think about the data government side back then.
I can't believe it happened again, but we are 40 minutes in for
love it. I love it. and thanks for letting me, be old man yells at cloud for a minute. and hang out with y'all.
sure, man. How will the youngins know otherwise? Right?
It's true. It's true. Somebody has got to do it.
Yeah. All right, folks. This has been episode number 99. We still don't have a proper outro yet. but we are done for the year and, we have got something special planned for episode 100. Please keep the eyes on the feed, because we're hoping episode 100 is going to be a big blow up for us. So, can't wait to show off what we got planned.
All right. And that's a wrap.
All right, cool.