Today I'm honored to have on my little show, a true legend of punk rock leaving frontman of the band fear. And he's got some great stories about starting out in the punk rock scene, becoming friends with John Belushi. And their performance with fear that got them banned on SNL. And then he hangs, you know, hanging out with Mick Jagger and John Belushi pretty crazy stuff there. He talks about new music coming out in a new documentary on the band fear as well. So it all starts right now.
So yeah, like I said, I learned a lot about you some interesting stuff that I think maybe even some of your hardcore fans don't know, like, explain the story, you almost went to Yale. Is that right?
I was in, in process for that. And they, they had their own program for completing that process in getting gaining my entrance to the freshman year at Yale. And at the, at the time, it was the Vietnam War was great, was raging. And in as much as they wanted, there was a program they wanted to put in place that wasn't capable of I wasn't able to hang around without being matriculated without getting drafted. So I
enlisted. And as as that process took place, for my there was a capability of enlisting, I think I let the draft thing take its course, cause it was shorter. And so then wound up after, after my. After that was over, when I was honorably discharged it. The idea of that, going to Yale had dissipated somewhat in my brain, wanting to do music. And so, got my way back to Philadelphia, and became lead singer in sweet staving chain, a blues band with this guy, Danny stir Robin, who was the guitar
player. And we had a good course in Philadelphia playing the electric factory opening for everybody that came through the chambers, brothers, etc. And then moved to New York, joined a band called Daybreak met my future wife to be before there was a Daybreak album, I hightailed it to Los Angeles, and began to look around, found myself and place in a, in a local band as a as the lead singer, and started writing and stayed in the more of what was common at the time for getting
into the music business, he wanted to play in bar gigs and doing whatever you could to keep pizza on the table, so to speak. And so that wound up taking its course for a while. Then all of a sudden, there became this thing called punk rock. And Brendan Molen, moved to town and opened up this barn out basement, called the mask and began to put on shows with local participants and some touring. But the the main roster of punk rock bands in Los Angeles was offered a place to play with his
basement place in Hollywood. And then the the whiskey and the star we'd started picking this up, you know, figuring that maybe there was some percentage in it for them and who cares what you call it, or what what its position and posture is, as long as it's what's happening and brings in paying customers.
They were content. And it was During that time I put the band together that was immediately the the first version of the band was me dirt scratch and Johnny backbeat those not they're given Christian names
because Didn't you see some of these punk bands happening and you are playing punk at the time but you thought I can do that and I can do it better than those guys I can write better songs I can I can make riots happen better you can, you could be a better punk rocker
that is correct or Mundo. And being that I did, I did have training, I was able to do some more things than some of the other people were able to do. And I I enjoyed that I dug it it was you know, the crowds were getting bigger. We were playing bigger shows. The the headliners at the time we started fear were like black Randy in the metro squad. And and other other bands, the weirdos.
The dead boys were around to write.
They were at the time, but the dead boys were an East Coast band. Okay, and that that format was somewhat different. But the thing it was very street level in LA. And I sort of enjoyed that. And then as, as time progressed, reasonably quickly, I might add, we started being able to open for touring bands that were more of a national status already, that were coming through places like the Whisky a Go Go and the star would. And again, getting to
play on on bills like that. And then we started touring as well, on top of it. Danny Hutton from three dog night was our manager for a while. Oh, I didn't know that. Yes. And so, and he was pivotal in placing us in a lot of the places that we needed to be at the time in order to garner the interest of the crowd. And the audience that was there at the time. And so it was you know, it was that was that was the point from which we started to to get better and better and do better and better
on the scene. And then John Belushi may he rest in peace, became aware of us and was we got in communication, who said he was coming out to the West Coast. And when he did, we got together and hung out for a while, you know, we went around town to the different places. And he God bless him, got us on Saturday Night Live. And that was a major push for us.
Yeah, and I don't think people knew a lot of people if you hadn't been to a punk rock show, they didn't really know what it was like. And they're probably seeing it for the first time on SNL. And probably some people, obviously, the President of NBC one of them horrified, right?
I would assume that, yes, the old guard, the the people in positions of power, the people who never had heard of, or ever seen anything, called punk rock would be put off by the whole idea. It wasn't polite, and kiss your butt, and everything worked out to a tee. It was more like, you know, go with the moment. And so we we like that. And we got on Saturday Night Live and brought that that ethic, if you will, with us. And and I thought the
show went great. And in the musical guests play two musical sequences. Being that our songs were shorter, we got to play two songs in each sequence. And in the second sequence. Something the kids came up on the stage as they were in the habit of doing Saturday Night Live was not used to that. And they shut that they went to stock footage during one of the most rambunctious portions of that second offering
from us. And it served our purposes perfectly created the exact feeling that a more authentic punk rock feeling, then would have been the case had we just played and politely say thank you good night, and thanks to John for getting us on, etc, etc.
And John kind of did that on purpose. Right. He kind of wanted. Yeah, a disaster.
I was not completely aware of what his status was with the Saturday Night Live with all the Saturday Night Live people and what you How he was getting along with the show at the time. I think he was very happy to have gotten us on where it was mayhem at the end of what we were doing, not organized. Not a polite kissy face. Thank you for having us kind of deal.
And didn't somebody grabbed the mic? I think it was the singer for Ghazi grab, was he the one that said, Fuck New York or he just say New York sucks. But somebody said fuck New York and it made it through.
Yes. And then the brass at Saturday Night Live were horrified. Hit the button for stock footage immediately. But they couldn't, they couldn't have known or realized that they were creating the perfect exit routine for our band to sign off and say good night rather than, you know, politely say, well, thank you very much for having us. You know, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. It seems to have gotten shut down that way. With the audience on the stage at Saturday Night Live. Excuse me.
You know, that's that's not what they were expecting. Nor were they happy with that. No, I was. Yeah, I thought it was it was perfect. It was it all fit all the format.
Was that like a typical show back in those days? I mean, there's a pumpkin flying, there's people yelling at the you, you're yelling back at the audience like yes,
that was kind of how the shows were back then. Ah, man, you got hit in the chest with that pumpkin. And it smashed all over.
And that kind of shit happens on the show cuz like, explain to my audience like what it was like in those late 70s, early 80s punk shows like it was chaos, right? It's crazy and slam dancing. And in the audience.
Are you arranging them with the vocals? You know? Yeah. The counselor was in the bandwidth going back, you know, the, to that time, the rock beat was done back to back combat combat. Now the rock beat thanks to us, that we chose that I counted offer our drummer Johnny backbeat at the time and then spit join the band shortly after that, and Philo two, so it was me spit Philo and dirt. And that was the band that stayed in place, and the band that played
Saturday Night Live. And so the standard beat for rock and roll was the bat and bat bat when we took over when we started playing the right to beat was
that that that that that that that that that That? That? That? That? Tata Tata Tata Tata Tata button,
which was like twice the amount of beats? Yeah, it's a lot faster that you had been used to getting before to get more bang for your buck, with fear. And I would tell him that, no, you're hearing what you get way more notes here, man, you know, you put this in the bank. Yeah,
so obviously the music's faster and what I was really loved that I'm just now discovering more fears. Music is the lyrics. The lyrics are It's so refreshing even right now, because it's so un-pc But but it's not that you guys did it because you hated people. You were equal. Opportunity offenders is what you the attorneys. Right.
That's what I said. That's how I described us. Yeah, I was proud of that. And I wanted that to be what, you know, we were not a kissy face. Here you are, Ben. Thank you very much, ladies and gentlemen. Good night. Thank you for having us. That was not the format whatsoever. But the format was more endearing to the audience. That's not the right word. The format was, was more it drew the audience in and they became
friends. Along with us. I was up on stage when I play guitar, and was up on stage, either with a guitar on or not, and harangue with my fist in the air. You know, I don't care about you and don't mean some damage. You know, all the all the songs that we had done, that were to that point that I had written that were designed to cause chaos in the audience. And in an enjoyable chaos, not something that was negative. It was it was negative only to the establishment. Because I felt
they needed to be woken up. They were missing the point.
Because the point was satire. Yes. Yeah.
I mean, was to be entertaining and to be funny. Yeah. And to do it in a different way. Not Thank you very much. But do me some damage. You know? That's, that's, that's a way of saying. So what have we got for recreational activities here tonight, so to speak.
Right. But so like, do some people get, like get seriously mad though? Like, did you guys have? I mean, there must have been feminists back in the 70s and 80s. I mean, like, the songs like the mouth don't stop and stuff like, I mean, do they get pissed off? Or you just do they understand, oh, that's just punk. That's just what they do.
Well, that's all what the trouble today with women is the mouth don't stop in some quarters if we're giving women the raspberries that would be entertaining to them and except that there was, you know, we would we would play all sides against each other to create the maximum amount of foment that we could possibly do at any any given time. And so Saturday Night Live, somehow fell right into place. And, and John was just smiling and tickled. He was
just as happy as a bedbug. Maybe the negotiations between he and the Saturday Night Live. Staff crew and management weren't going quite so well, at that point, or, you know, I don't I don't know exactly. But he just looked, he looked at he would look at the camera that night, and just raise that one eyebrow and not say anything. Right? Like the cat that ate the canary. Yeah.
Was it so what was he like hanging out off camera? Was he always funny like off camera too.
He was funny to a tremendous human being a kind, loving, intelligent, human being that had this penchant for humor. And, and also had that eyebrow up kind of half smile. That enjoyed being troublesome in some way. But funny, and you know, to a good purpose, not to a bad purpose. To have the entertainment factor come at it in a different way. Which he was extremely good at.
Was that one of the first times you hung out with him? You mean he brought Mick Jagger over at some bar on the rocks or something like that? Yes,
we were we were at on the rocks. Mick Jagger was in town. There I am. Unknown at that time to to the major people that we eventually became known by. And I'm, I'm, I'm with the people in our band. I am with John Belushi. And now I'm also with Mick Jagger, who is rock and roll royalty if there ever was. And you would have had trouble finding someone more advanced in in real world renown, and in, in band history, then he and his band. And I was a big fan of theirs as well,
too, from like years before. The you know, the Rolling Stones were the scruffy rock guys to listen to and, you know, had had their own sort of disenfranchisement. But it was subtler. And you had to be more careful at that time. I think you couldn't have been as as raucous and outright saying it in their face, as it became popular to do later a little bit later on. As it became popular
to do right around the time. Me and John Belushi and Mick were in that bar on the rocks, enjoying conversation, industry scuttlebutt, do you remember
any of that conversation? I mean, to be a fly on the wall? That'd be amazing.
Yeah, that would, that would have been interesting for anyone at that point to, to hear our conversation. We were talking about trying to, you know, advance this thing, this punk rock thing, which had not been done by anybody except the Sex Pistols. By that time, yeah. And to have even improved upon that and gotten to where the Rolling Stones are. Absolute Rock Royalty, was something we
began to consider. You mean after Oh, there we are, with John Belushi and on the rocks, hanging out with all these people, these these people I just mentioned, the Rock and Roll royalty. And, and it did serve its purpose. It did that in addition to our Saturday Night Live performance, put us out there way large, it was, it was a huge, wonderful move.
Absolutely. Well, and then you did shows with a black flag back then back in the late 70s, early 80s, right? Yes. Yeah. So what was it like?
The germs you know, anybody who called her the weirdos Sure. jerks were just just getting ready to start. Keith was in the front row of every performance we played with at least two or three quarts of Budweiser and then would would stand there screaming stuff at us while we're playing. And, you know, that seemed very normal and as per for the time and then he put the circle jerks together and it began to make more sense.
And so circle jerks black flag you know, all the ones I've mentioned so far, the weirdos were the bands that were playing. And that there were there were more bands coming at that time.
Yeah, and then and then later you played with uh, you were actually on the Vans Warped Tour with like, those newer, what would you call that? I mean, cuz I don't know if I call that punk. It's like pop punk music. What did you think of that movement when punk kind of came back, but it was more poppy?
Well, at that point, any stage would have done? No, I don't care what they called. We come out there and do what we do. And that brings in the crowd who's among the crowd who are not aware of the punk rock thing and blends that and brings them even the more pop oriented people that that was the reason they got to the show. Originally, they wound up enjoying the show because of the punk rock stuff, which they had
never heard before. It was refreshing to them like what like it is it was for everyone else.
Yeah, I did did a lot of those bands. Are they fans of you? Like I would think that you've influenced a lot of those even if they're playing more pop punk. A lot of us are bands. We're big fans of the real punk to
Yes. And we would say shit that was insulting to them as a joke from the stage. You know, and and then I would say nah, only kidding. Just kidding.
Yeah, like what about like bad religion? I feel like that's like a pretty good. They're not really pop punk. But they're not obviously the early seem punk either. played with them.
They were not hardcore. That was that. They were not exactly part of the boys club. Now, from my viewpoint. Yeah. At the at the outset. But they did well enough. I think they advanced and became popular and you know, had their own audience.
Yeah, well, on the singer, Greg. I mean, he's a really smart guy, too. He's a like a PhD from Cornell. Right? Do you ever have conversations with him?
I don't recall having any in depth conversations with him. No, I don't.
Hmm. Well, and then also, I want to ask you about that the acting, that's also a big part of your career, too. And it's crazy that you got an agent from William Morris Agency. That's like, it's not one of the biggest agencies in whole, I feel like it's still huge today.
And, and at one point, or at the outset, one of the only ones that was handling the big deal stuff. And so it was, it was great. And I'm sure that the stuff that we were able to be in on Saturday Night Live and all this other. While not being directly related to to film acting was helpful. And producers would not have overlooked the fact that I was able to play Saturday Night Live
and that we were popular. And at the end of the day, anything that brings in more movie goers to paid viewings of the film is good.
Right. So you feel like it maybe helped you get roles being the singer of fear rather than hurt. Yes.
It was like a backwards philosophy that was working. And yeah, so if you didn't understand how I put that together, so much the better. The Gotcha. That would leave you having coffee in some place, some burnout, coffee shop and Hollywood while I'm talking to big time producers. Wow.
Yeah. So one of the movies that you did get crazy. Do you remember that one? It was an 83. And it had because I had this other musician. Directing. Yeah, had John Densmore from the doors and Lou Reed from velvet. And Malcolm McDowell. That's a pretty good cast.
Yes. Malcolm. It was totally cool to hang out with a great fellow.
That's what I hear. He's a really good storyteller.
Yes. It was a very enjoyable and that movie was pivotal. Yeah, but and then also, there was Flashdance and Streets of Fire. And speaking of being pivotal?
Yeah, was the Flashdance one. Tell them explain this story like Jennifer Beals was was scared of you or something or what was the story there?
Ah, it was her first film, but it was made The movie that we did with Penelope Spheeris, about punk rock was pretty much my first film. Mm hmm. Unless I've forgotten a couple where I was just a passing person in something, or, or the like. But yes, it was her first film, and she didn't know what to expect. And I think I could see that trepidation in her. And I played on it. It was, it was sort of fun. She's a nice lady, you know, yeah. And the film was, well accepted and
successful. But I couldn't help but see the opportunity for some punk rock conjecture at at the different points during the day. And I think she took it as, as sort of an attack. But it wasn't that was not my purpose. It was just to try to identify the different places in the world that a person could come from that the disparate as you may have been, we were putting ourselves together for the purpose of this film that was working. So to have her be on edge a bit I've found humor in.
And I confess to having played upon that a bit.
Yeah, well, it's a character acting is I think that's what they call it, right? Yeah.
The day is long film days are long, you know, 16 hours, or 12 hours, some days or something. And so entertain yourself is a good thing to do, rather than, you know, just because becoming uncomfortable with something like that static to be on a movie set. And I didn't care how or why or what, or who, and was valid and determined to make my days as profitable. And as big an investment in doing more of this as I could possibly do. When I felt that was the smart way to
look at it. I still think it is.
Absolutely and then you had clew movie with Tommy Lee Jones. And then what about this
one? Yeah, when Tommy Lee's a great actor, and that was that was that was great. During that film was black moon rising. He and I got along great.
Okay, yeah, that's I only heard the only story know about Emily Jones was like when he did Batman Forever. And he wasn't a fan of Jim Carrey or something like that. But he was a fan of you.
Oh, I think we had rasti attitudes in common. Ah, you know that there was heat he understood to say, he capiche you know what that is and the enjoyment that can be gotten from that, especially as others don't understand it.
It's like a sense of humor thing. Yeah.
Yes. They don't understand that. But they realize they're being had or gotten to, sort of, but they're not exactly sure how, and that further pisses them off.
I love it. All.
In my view at that point.
Right. And then do you remember this one that you did fast sofa in 2001? Because I you worked with or I don't know if you had any direct contact with them, but Crispin Glover he's such an interesting guy. Is he a fan of you and your band? Or are your is your band to mainstream because he's he's kind of interesting guy.
I recall the film I think we got along well, and the the both strange places that we had each come from sort of added to our our collaborate in some more, and yeah, that was very cool, too.
That's fine. Yeah, you have so many cool things or do you have any upcoming acting roles or anything like that any movies coming out?
Not that I've signed on the bottom line to yet but I I'm always talking to somebody or another about some something having to do with that. And I'm still very interested in you know, as as you get older and all that stuff. You can move through the different parts that are that that come up in things that play right into your pocket. Right. I'd like to keep it on on that level. As as we go
here. And while I'm still seeing these beautiful melodic love songs to people from the stage, that big time producers are always welcome to submit any anything's that they Have in mind that might work out?
Absolutely. Yeah. Well, so tell me about you have a new album. It's coming out or it's not out yet, but it's is it uh, did I hear was a double album or
triple album or some? Yes, there's a three, a triple album coming out. So the rights to the fear fear record here the record that's funny it's the fear record but it's also fair the record have reverted to us from Warner Brothers we we have received that back into the family fold it is now owned by us we are reissuing of fear the record with a three LP three CD boxset pre orders on May 16. Which would be the 40th anniversary of the original release. Box sets will be shipped in December. Ah
nice. That's good because like the you guys that the one you rerecorded because you didn't have the rights to it.
No, no, this, this is the original record.
Right. But isn't that the one you have is one of them that like on Spotify, I think was like a rerecord. Am I crazy.
I'm not sure what exactly.
But this is the original. So that's the good thing.
Yeah. This is the one. Then there's a we're in production. I'm reading this from from Robert. He made a list of some things I wanted to tell you today. Oh yeah, we're in production on a new album. With slash duff and shooter Jennings guesting will be a double album with 27 songs, many of which were have never been heard, had not been released, but have been in the can for years. We're in the studio next week. Doing stuff with shooter and and with
this new project. And we're in production of a feature length documentary about fear. And the director named Jason Zink.
Yes. Okay. So lots of good stuff to look forward to awesome. Yes, sir. Yeah, absolutely. Well, I will put that in the notes and then with your website, so people can click on that and then follow you on social media. I'm assuming you're the band is right. So more Facebook or something?
Yes. Yeah, I believe we are. Okay. So
I'll put it that in there. And then, is there any charities that you've worked with or that you want to promote here? At the end, I always end each episode with a charity of the guest choice.
Yes. And which is that's, that's very important, and which exact ones they are there, there may be a half a dozen, but I would dearly love to discuss them with you. And if there is some charity contribution that's being made by people that you have interviewed? I'd like to discuss that with you too.
Yeah, I just I just like to promote, you know, you know, raise awareness for something if there's a cause that's near and dear to your heart that was put the I can put the website in the show notes. So if anybody has extra money after of course, they buy your box that if they have a few leftover dollars, they can contribute it to a you know, cause that is near and dear to your heart.
Yes. And I see one that's on TV being advertised now. Something that's a new charity cause well, but I have to check it out again, in order to mention it to you correctly.
Okay. Yeah, just so you can have a Robert email to me or whatever. That's fine. Sure. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah.
Okay. Thanks so much, Lee.
Well done for you, man. Good for you for taking an opportunity to do something like that. Yeah, you know, many, many just ignore that. Yeah. No. Needy folks in the world. Absolutely. Anything you can do to help them this good thing?
Yeah, it's interesting. Like that song. I don't care about you. You're not saying like, I don't it's more like a commentary that people don't give a shit about these other people, which I thought was really cool. When I heard that. I was like, Oh, that's so different than what I thought that song was about. Yes.
It's not it's not just blatantly complaining about my fellow human beings. It's it's about my fellow beings being more caring with language that's never been used to promote a message like that. And somehow it it gets through. Yeah, now people see it, that what what exactly it was, I was trying to do by saying something brash, and unfriendly as that, right when the purpose was altogether different.
Yeah, I think that's like part of rebelling against the The system and punk rock is is.
Yeah. Don't understand and laugh at them for not understanding it. Exactly. get you to the home plate in a big time way. Absolutely. In some cases that's deserved. Not at all. You know, you have to be careful and make sure you're, you're promoting progress.
Absolutely. Well, thanks so much, Lee. You're a legend. I appreciate you taking the time to do this. It's amazing.
Yes, sir. Let's stay in touch. Okay, sounds good. When we sign off here, let's let's give each other a phone call every now and again. And stuff like that. It's amazing. Yeah. Thank you. It's been my pleasure. And thank you for having me. Okay, finally, all the best to
write, thank you to leave for taking the time to come on my show. And to Robert for helping set this up. It's always fun to talk to someone of that stature. I think he was massively influential to a lot of musicians and these punk rockers in the late 70s and 80s, they really created a whole new genre of music, which hasn't been done in a very long time. So Lee is very talented as an actor, and he not only plays punk music, but he also has a jazz record. So we'll have to
talk about that next time. In the meantime, make sure to follow me on social media for updates on the new music and the new documentary should be a lot of fun. And while you're on social media, please give me a follow as well, I would love to see that. And please make sure to subscribe to the show on YouTube or wherever you watch or listen to make sure that you'll get immediate updates on when I release a new episode, which lately is quite often. So I've got a few completed that I need
to get out. And then I'll be scheduling for future ones. So who do you want to see on the show? Now that I'm discovering more punk music that opens up a lot more possibilities. But I'm open not only to punk music or rock music, but other kinds of music or film and TV people, athletes, authors, basically anyone who has an interesting story to tell and at least some kind of fan base. That always helps to. So hopefully we'll have some really great guests
coming up here. So thank you so much for watching or listening. Have a great rest of your day and remember to shoot for the moon