Welcome to chuck shoe podcast. Today my guest is Dr. Keith Coogan. So if you grew up a child of the 80s you definitely saw Keith on TV. He made guest appearances on all the biggest TV shows Mork and Mindy Growing Pains Love Boat Laverne and Shirley Fantasy Island Little House on the Prairie nightrider chips, my personal favorite silver spoons. And then he started doing movies like adventures in babysitting book a love toy soldiers. And of course, don't tell mom the
babysitter's dead. And even if you're not a fan of any of these shows, or movies or never heard of them, I still think this is an interesting interview, just talking about the movie and TV business. His legendary grandfather, Jackie Coogan, who is Uncle fester on Alan's family. We talked about child actors and just all sorts of interesting stuff. So enjoy this. Hi, how's it going? Welcome to the show.
Thanks for having me on
Keith Coogan This is amazing if I could if my like 12 year old 13 year old self could see me now talking to like a movie star is amazing. It's really cool.
Well, I appreciate that you know movie stars very subjective here in LA. I guess so. Here you are with network out last movie who did and frankly, I just love the art of doing I love doing it. I love making movies. I love sticking I love make people laugh.
Yeah, movies, TV acting, you did stand up.
I did do stand up a once debut went well. Second time bombed terribly. So learning, learning learning in the process a lot more writing to do.
Yeah, actually, you know, because I interview a lot of stand up comedians, and bombing is definitely part of the process. I mean, every comedian I've talked to bombs still, like even when they make it big, they still bought, they'll still go out and have those times when they bombed. So I think that's part of the thing with stand up.
Yeah, it really is acknowledging the elephant in the room. Being right in the moment, you can't always have a locked act. And I'm fine in front of people, groups of people I got turned on. It's that Oh, you're on stage now. And you're the you know, you're the entertainment for the next type five. It's tough. It is an art form. Yeah, I recognize a lot of actors and actresses will use or comedians, we've been writers Will you stand up as a means to an end? To get that TV
show? Right, you know, movies career. And, um, I mean, it is a skill in and amongst itself, that is not easy to do at all. And I do not brand myself a stand up comic at all. But I have been the emcee on the second show where I bombed because you know, you're really more like a storyteller. Although Kaito kailyn was also at that show and he killed it. He really?
Okay, didn't hear that.
So even in front of any group, any audience, give him 45 minutes and this guy could hold the room.
Yeah, amazing. So like I said, I was a fan of yours growing up. But then you know, when I when I booked you for the show, I start doing the research. I had no idea. Your grandfather was this famous child actor. Can you talk about I know you like talking about your grandfather, Jackie Coogan, can you tell our listeners that whole story because I didn't even know that was enough. No idea about that.
Sure. He was born into vaudeville parents and discovered by Chaplin and put in the kid which was Chaplin's first feature length, worldwide hit launched young career for him in movies and merchandising, a lot of merchandising, he made a couple meal millions as a young actor. This is in the teens, and 20s in Hollywood. And by the time he'd grown up and went for his money, his his father did pass them a terrible car accident that killed everyone in the car, but jack,
or Jackie has a column. And, um, his mother remarried and his parents took all of his money. So California passed a law known as the Coogan Act, or the child actors bill. And it is you're supposed to put a percentage aside. It could be different projects and stuff. But 15% is the minimum.
That's a great I mean, that's that's helped people.
Yeah, it also hasn't I know, Cory. I mean, Gary Coleman and Macaulay Culkin athletic shoes where they're, they're, you know, trust amount that should have been put aside, because of what my grandfather went through. did not happen. So there's still issues and then he also, you know, he carried on in Hollywood married Betty Grable fought the war.
Here's uncle fester,
had a comeback at 50. Yeah, Who's 50? And has the the cheeks I love to play faster. Oh my god out here or her Tim Burton was remaking it as a series, and Tim Burton worked on the Fox and the Hound and I was the voice of the young.
Yes, that's right. Not to make this happen, right. No, definitely. It wasn't your grandfather. Also, he was in an episode of The Brady Bunch. It was that one where they get in the car wreck, and he puts on the neck brace and he does the he pretends that he got hurt or whatever, but it was that was your that was your grandfather?
Yes, the one of the most hated man on television.
Yeah, that was an iconic episode. I feel for me as a kid. Yeah.
They snuck him back on another episode where and Jan and run away or something. Alice wound up knocking on some random guys door and it was my grandfather for a quick little scene when doing like Partridge families. And Lucy shows a lot of game shows. He used to brag he did 1000 TV appearances. Wow.
So it was Yeah. And it was like when you were like four or five, you decided that you wanted to be an actor. And your mom's like she knew the business. So she's like, Okay, well, this is the way you're gonna do commercials, then you're gonna do TV shows, and then you're gonna do movies. And that's exactly what happened. So like, it doesn't always happen that way. But so how did you talk about getting started? Like, how did you know at such a young age that you wanted to do that?
I saw kids on TV on zoom. A, which is kind of like a Sesame Street Electric Company. The Boston show you familiar with zoom?
I know
there must have been times the kids home, okay, kids do the titles. The kids had different set, you know, segments. And they rotate the cast as the kids started to get older, whatever most zoom actors would be on for a year or two. And they just look like they're having so much fun. Yeah. And you know, I saw, um, we also had a show called Vla gray, which was like a half Spanish language, children show, okay, newzoo review, electric company,
Sesame Street. Anytime I saw kids on television and having fun, I said, that looks fun. I want to be on TV. And my mom kind of explained the career route, you know, well, first, you have to do commercials. And then I said, Oh, I don't look, I don't want to do that. I just want to go on and show her wherever she goes, Okay, well, did you know that's fine. So it was months later that I like, bounded into the room and, and said, Okay, I'm and I started doing or singing some commercial
jingle or something. And I said, Okay, I'm ready to if I have, you know, I'm ready to do commercials. And my mom was, you know, she knew the business, and how not normal it is, especially for a child. It's hard enough as an adult being an actor. So do you have to die? Oh,
yeah. Do you have to take like acting lessons? Or do you just learn by just going through all these auditions and things? Or did somebody teach you like, how to act and how to do all these things?
That's a great question. Um, I think I was unnatural, because I could read really well. Okay. And cold read stuff, I'd look at a page of dialogue and go got it. And, um, I had learned from, you know, I did start to understand who my grandfather was. We were in like, I think Sacramento at the time, and all. We just didn't see him that often. And I didn't understand four or five years old, what, you know, any of that
stuff was. So as I started working, more and more and more, I first got did an unpaid gig as a standard on a McDonald's for some reason, I've never got paid and that's how my mother found my agent asking around and stuff. It's like, oh, Don Schwartz will take care of you. And that's put me up on a bunch of commercials and stuff under my birthday. Michel.
Michel, right? Yeah.
Because my mom did not want me to get parts just for the Coogan and the nepotism.
Yeah, and once you kind of a strange from your grandfather at the time.
No, no, that's a lie. I've said it before. My mom said that. She wasn't really a strange just that we weren't spending a lot we went back to okay brings us stuff and I remember, you know,
did you give him? Did he give you advice or anything or any tips or
no, watch your money. Be careful of your mother. Good advice. Be careful of mothers in general and I didn't have to worry about that because my mother was pretty closely watched. Can you imagine the headlines, Jackie Cooper had solder case grandson's money. So she was really good with the money and letting me know what
it was worth. So, you know, I eight or 12 or whatever and have chores and an allowance and I can earn 510 you know, as I was getting older, maybe 14 or 15 years old, I was earning like $15 a week if I mowed the lawn and did the dishes and you know pick up the dog poop and into the trash and vacuumed and all that good stuff. So I understood when I see my like, you know, paychecks for you know, thousand dollars a week or whatever it
was back then. And then I'm like, Oh, I can take home 15 and I know how much that's worth in candy and arcade games. It's very clear now I like seeing Return of the dollar amounts. It also was it's not about that it's not about making money. You don't work that often. Mm hmm. You get paid well, for you know, the union minimums are mostly good enough. Yeah, stick she could work every day. That would be great at that money. And that's the goal is after.
Yeah, but and you started to do no work. You did something
pay more and some that don't, um,
to make a living? Yeah, I mean, I think you do, I thought you did. Like every 80s TV show like chips and nightrider Laverne and Shirley Mork and Mindy. I mean, just the list is amazing. This is kind of interesting, too. Like, in 1980. It was down to you and River Phoenix for the show Seven Brides for Seven Brothers. And you got you actually backed away because of where the filming location. So you inadvertently gave River Phoenix his first big break, right? I
don't even know inadvertently, I wait both things. My little brother was due to be born in December, and, uh, and my mom really wanted to do a natural birthing thing in LA. It's in that it's in a hospital. We're just outside the room and all the machines and stuff, but it's a wallpaper and like a rocking chair, and no machines or monitors. It's called alternate birthing center. she'd already arranged
this. And so we're, you know, months away from that, but she goes, You know, I really don't want to give birth up in North Chow, nothing personal against Northern California. So she kind of made these arrangements. And we love river and we loved his family. And he's, you know, obviously, incredibly talented. And I was, you know, very on it. It was a Disney based kind of thing. On that kind of family entertainment. I think ribber has a lot more depth. He also had the chops for singing and
playing guitar. I couldn't play guitar could barely carry a tune, like, well, who are some of the younger with one actor who's, you know, their strengths and weaknesses. I couldn't really tell you what rivers weaknesses were Yeah, um, but whatever reason where it was really close for me, I know that we backed out of it and said, You know, I think it would be what a great opportunity for him. And at this point, and I know that's kind of jaded saying it, but it was just another show
for me. Sure. That family family stuff that and I totally I'm yeah, I'm 12 or whatever, right. I don't know. I don't remember how you was.
Yeah, so you're you were a fan. A lot of these shows that you were on like you watched him like did Were you a fan of silver spoons. You got to tell me about this. Like, what was the set of that place? Like because I think every kid wanted to do the remote control door ride the train and play the video games is all that just fake stuff. Like, is it cardboard video games and or is it real? You could ride the train? You could? The video
games were real. They had a dip switch to turn off the sounds because the sounds Oh, sure. Okay, yeah,
yeah, but you could turn them on at lunch, and free credits and all that stuff. I'm the head it was the mansion set. And really, for us it was Rick sings Oh, yeah, right next to the mansion set was this cafe. It was like, you know, hmm. Because that's what teenagers do is they go to the cafe, right? Okay. Rick was the manager of a rock band and the lead singer got laryngitis right before they're big on TV, you know, screen debut for like a battle of bands. So Rick jumps
in and sings. And it was a billy Jacoby. Now Billy Jane. Alfonso Ribeiro,
who's Carlton from Fresh Prince,
right? Yes. Yeah. And quirky pigeon as Freddy.
Yeah, got a bottle. I can't
Yeah, he was the nerdy kid. Yeah, I remember.
Yeah. Yeah, that's Derek.
Yes, Justin Bateman.
No, no, the other day. The tough kind of redneck bully friend of Rick strat. Oh, you remember him? He was he would usually come in like with groups of guys.
Yeah. Didn't have like the sleevless. Yes, Jean vest or something? Yeah, got it. I haven't seen that show in forever.
It had a Amy Dolan's. One of her first jobs was on silver spokes. And my aunt had taught Mickey dolenz how to play drums for the monkeys because he was a guitar player. And she play drums. But she was left handed. So Mickey dolenz learned about a left handed kid. Weird things when you grow up in Hollywood.
Yeah, I guess so. Like being on all these different TV shows like you're working with all these legends? Like, are you kind of taking notes in your head as a kid like what works? What doesn't work? You know, different ways these actors prepare and things like that or?
Oh, sure. I mean, it's growing up in a kind of show folk family. We know that. Um, it's not brain surgery. You're not solving cancer. You're not bringing food to, you know, community. It's um, but it's it's something that people really do turn to, um, you're not solving cancer. Let's just put it that way. It's just movies. It's only rise in TV, though. People in Hollywood are
pretty full of it. Yeah, I have to be and you have to have a really thick skin because as many people may be a fan, you know that you obviously know as soon as they allow the internet to exist. People kind of express their vitriol, which was usually reserved for elementary school playground. But now grown adults are tossing insults each other other
is married. Yeah, I agree.
It is. So it's tough to be I don't want to say it's tough to be a star but it's tough to be a star.
But back in those days were you in like the like the team beats and mags I thought I saw like you on like on one of those pictures or like you posted on your Instagram or something. So you kind of had that little you know, there was a lot of those kind of magazines and stuff back in the day. Right? Like
there were and TV Tiger beat Yes. 16. A and a sassy, remember sassy? No, I never I never
read any of them. But I remember seeing them at the grocery store. And yeah, this is funny that you're in
the babysitting, I happen to be in the premiere issue of premiere magazine, and sassy mag, these are like the opposite of the literature spectrum.
That's funny. So I'm assuming like, how did you like avoid the pitfalls of so many other child actors? Because I'm assuming? Well, I mean, you I'm assuming you were offered you were offered drugs at some point. But you said you never did drugs you only drank. So how did you decide
where? How much? Who's the guy? Right aware of it and you're aware of it young? And you're aware that it can cause a problem for people? Like how young?
What's the Do you remember, like the first time you were offered drugs? Like how young were you? Like how young Do they offer kids drugs? And
eight,
really, like kids are offering you or like agents and adults or what like manage? Oh, geez,
that's scary.
And I mean, but my mom was wise to it. So she told me about it. Before I ever stepped on a set. Um, and then you're informed and you can make a choice?
Hmm. Wow. That's crazy. So your first?
Yeah. Wouldn't it be in any career? Oh, you get to pick anything? You know, there could be you know, a sinister element to any industry. Anything anywhere?
Definitely. Definitely. Do you think they're cracking down on that kind of stuff more now, though?
On what
on? Like, drugs with kids? It's I mean, there's whole the me to thing like, you know, they're cracking down on a lot of this, like, as you call the sinister elements of that kind of thing.
I don't know how they could Well, number one, it's rare on an actual set. There's quite a lot of people not that people haven't tried. Thank God, I was kind of a wise kid. Um, so the parents have a right to be within sight and sound of their child at all times. exercise that right? No problem. offset is where you get more functions, PR, management companies that will focus on kids and those people aren't necessarily vetted by the
industry. And that's where most of the problems Hey, I could get your kid into see this casting director, if you give them to me for a weekend. And parents sometimes are more than ready to go? Sure. all they see is the money and that kind of all right. The thing is, they'll even kind of lie to themselves, but people do that with sexual assault, drug addiction, alcohol addiction in any family. Yeah, you're gonna have that kind of
incredible dysfunction. Now flip it on its head and make the eight year old, the breadwinner. And everything kind of gets out of whack.
Yeah, definitely.
So I was very lucky. You're asking how I avoided the pit? Yeah, I know. My mom who made me go to public school all the time. I got regular jobs. As soon as I turned 18 I worked regular video stores. Shoot, I telemarketing for at&t. Anything to you know, pay the bills, food, that cable. And then you can go do the web series of the low budget stuff in the art films and have not worked for a year or two here and there. Yeah. You don't have to worry about Hollywood relying
on it. But I've never quit. Always in it. That's good. And yeah,
yeah. So let's talk about your move. So all these TV shows, and then you started going to movies. I thought it was interesting. The first movie you technically did was the Fox and the Hound. But your family said No, that doesn't count as a movie because you just did the voice but that was a big movie. And you must have got pretty good residual from that one right because it's still very popular. The Fox in the house.
Yeah, it is one of I think it's my highest box office movie. Um, and it also had a rerelease in Yeah, some years after it originally came out at eight. So we, you know, and realistically, I think that the reason why my mother may have said that is because it is animated. And even Robin Williams couldn't get his name on the poster, or really be associated with the character. Disney doesn't do that. Yeah. And they're great. I'm not denigrating Disney ever, ever, ever worked for the dozens of
times. I love them a great relationship with Disney. They know exactly what they're doing the story is the brand. And as an actor, you're just a little part of that story. So it doesn't help your career. You got to put it on your resume and you got to promote it. But you know, it's really just about that story, which is also Mickey wrestling and or Mickey Rooney and Kurt Russell Russell. Yeah, the hound was Corey Feldman? Of
course. Yeah. Yeah, so you don't really think of I mean, you do if you think of the cast, and you only have Pearl, Bailey, Pat buttram, and jack Albertson. Um, but it you know, it's not about your face isn't on screen, it doesn't help. The young, although they did run this by the animators, me and Corey, to have our characters kind of look like little bit, our eyes, at least maybe look like us. Oh, that's what we say that that's also show folk humor of like, you know, I gotta, you know, got
a new show or something. And then, you know, there'll be some tragedy or reason the show is canceled, or, there's always there's always a dark element to it, I think to being a show folk, um, in that you, we really do sacrifice everything. For moments, you to do this to preparing and doing it. And you have to kind of succumb completely you can't be thinking about your bills, taxes? Or
where did I put that file? While you're standing on stage in front of a few people know, definitely, it demands kind of total commitment. And that isn't for everybody. And so to anyone that wants to be in show business, do it. Try it get there's always something theater, local stuff. Civic light opera. There are, you know, short film student films that need actors and stuff. And so people could try it. And if it's not something they just
absolutely love. Then those challenges, I'll just call them that to doing the art form. It's like being a Mad Hatter. Yes, you make beautiful hats, but the mercury poisoning might get to you after a while. Okay. And
so that's an it's just an analogy. So this is actually speaking of trying you try it out for some of these big movies. Et Guney stand by me Gremlins Christmas story. Are these lead roles that you're trying out for the like the the What do you call
lead roles? Elliot, Elliot and mouth I went up for Lloyd Doppler farmer Ted. stuff that you know, you read the script and you go I'm too young, or That's ridiculous.
And oh, Ted from 16 candles. Yeah. Oh, that. Yeah. But some of these like, you just can't even picture anyone else doing that. Like I Anthony Michael Hall just nails that which character and stand by me.
Um, it was probably a um, well, it was probably Wil Wheaton.
Yeah. So he said that he wanted your role and adventures in babysitting.
He just wanted I think he wanted to be in the movie. I don't know if he defined the role, but he looked at we're an autograph convention. You look Yeah, my table and he goes, he goes that one. Like what he goes he's like I would you know, I really wanted to be an adventure babysitting. And I said to him, would you trade with me with standby? Me?
Yeah.
And he goes now. So you know, I certainly wanted to be on standby. You get you know, you get what's your right for when you're right for an ungodly amount of luck. I'm just the right place at the right time. And yes, everybody that went up for something, I'm prepared and wanted it and could have done it. It could have been right for it. But it's really got to fit the director, the studio, the story, you carry
baggage with an actor. And my mom's goal was to not to have me known for any like TV role that could spoil the movie career. So we tried to stay out of that stay out of but maybe that's the reason why Seven Brides for Seven Brothers was an important to her. By that time, we had kind of our eye on that. The big
screen. Okay, um, and I'd already done a few you know, family shows that went a few episodes and you I'd pilots and then in order for series, and this is funny, I'm talking these business terms, but I'm also doing this at six. Like what's our time slot? Yeah, you know, it's it's, it's a lot it's a lot for a kid to take on but you've seen kids become chess prodigies, you know, kids that are math prodigies. Figure out the stock market by the time
they're 12 years old. And I think that kids are just very adaptable. Yeah, well, So was he a system?
How much? I mean, it is still a job. But is it fun? I mean, when you're on nightrider as a kid, and you're in the you're with the car, right? I mean, that's got to be like every kid's dream, or is it like you're like, here I go. I gotta go to work and work on night writer. I mean, what does it tell me what it's like being a kid and on these crazy TV shows that I love my growing pains and stuff?
Oh, yeah. Oh, no, every kid's dream, the especially the bigger Love Boat, Fantasy Island writer. Those kinds of things are, they're huge. They're no one's paying attention to you on the set. Because there's a million things going on. You're just supposed to show up when they yell action and stand on your mark, get it right, in one or two takes so a lot to do in back then they shot hour long shows it took about six days now it takes eight to
10 I think Hmm. Um, so you just very aware of the time element and the money involved. And as a rule on, you know, as a kid, you can be a kid play around and stuff but don't ever waste time or money on a set. Okay. Um, and you know, did that prevent me from being a kid kid? No, it was an add on plus extracurricular at get to serve, you know, well, I really serve might hurt my face. There were things that was limited on doing that might be, you know, physically traumatic
to my visit. But I still did him anyway.
Did you get in trouble on these sets? Every now and then you ever goof off and like do anything? No.
Yeah. I've heard rumors that I've handcuffed a security guard to a cart. And I just I hunted the logic that who What? Do tons of good actors the same? bowl haircut? haircut? Yeah, early 80s. Everybody had it? I'm like, I absolutely did not do that. Please retract it. I don't want me to rumor getting out like that. I am not a bad kid. I know bad kids in you know, Hollywood and sure. I'm now one of them. So I was pretty upset when like any room where
we're coming out of me. Like I've never misbehave on the set. I loved it. I always love doing it. Now, sitcoms, you mentioned growing pains. Yeah. And with liberty, surely, I think was my first. And so we're experiencing growing pains, just the 10 of us raising Miranda sibs. Um, those were mostly most of the live shows I did. And um, they weren't my palette. They weren't my canvas. It was I like theater. I got that. And I like movies and TV. I got that. But a blending it live audience and
you're filming it. That really put my nerves on edge and just hearing that audience and move your heartbeats up on your throat. It's just it is different. And so I didn't enjoy doing those. I was mostly nervous on any of those kind of live in front of an audience. Okay, shows. Gotcha. Well,
yeah, let's talk about your big movie adventures in babysitting. That's a classic. I didn't realize it was funny. We watched it last night with my girlfriend. She's like this kind of like Ferris Bueller's Day Off. I'm like, Yeah, actually, I heard the writer was inspired by watching that movie. Right?
Oh, yeah. I love it. You've done your research, because I know exactly which interviews you've actually read or watch.
There was a lot. Yeah.
No, I really do appreciate this. I had heard. Maybe I'd read it at one point. But it was almost like practically after watching Ferris Bueller's Day Off, he went home and banged out a draft. Yeah. And I see the similarities in starting at the home, and ditching the parents going around Chicago. bunch of different locations that you never returned to your always xotic there's a French restaurant scene. There's a
musical number scene. They, you know, they get beat the parents home just yeah, enough just enough that I went well. That's a road picture structure. It's just compacted into a few hours. Yeah. I mean Ferris Bueller's Day Off. It's you know, eight hours for us. It's three or four hours we packed this all in between, you know, sundown and midnight. Um, and it is interesting. The people use the word cult in that it was not a, you know, box office failure. It didn't lose money
for the studio. The numbers were solid costs You know, eight or 10 million to make and made 36 million or whatever it was, I don't think anybody would be upset with a $10 million investment than returned $36 million made more money than other movies, like loss boys and stuff like that. And but I appreciate that because Colt may have another meaning in that it just held up or Yeah, no,
it still hasn't like a
lavande onra.
Yeah. I think people that saw it when they were kid probably showed their kids now, I would hope. But then again, I feel like it's interesting because like Molly Ringwald, she came out recently and said that, you know, she cringed at some of the scenes in Breakfast Club. Like they were too crass. Do you think some of the scenes and adventures in babysitting are too crass for kids? Or? I mean, they do say fucking twice, which is kind of
interesting. So I think I think you can only say fuck once in a PG 13. But they say it twice. In the one instance of it.
Okay. Back then the same scene set up for its own joke. Yes. And that she pronounces it foc and the MPAA just was like, all right, you're allowed to shoot? Yeah, we also have bitch and you know, her legs are locked together. Yeah, there's a we have, um, Thor's a homo. And so yeah, by today's standards, would you have to take the time frame? Yeah, yeah.
If you're talking something that takes place in the 30s, they'll use a certain language, if it takes place in the 50s or the 60s, you'll use certain language that society says was okay at the time, right? Not okay. And, um, and the reason people are doing it, I'm not okay. But they did it. And that's how people talk to back them. Right? And so go ahead and cringe at
everybody. cringe at the United States cringe at every single film in the 80s it was so prevalent sexism, racism, that it was openly done in movies for a laugh. How far are we from step in fetchit and blackface and minstrel shows? And I don't think too far people recognize it quick. They're like wow, the media does have a huge responsibility and so they really did start to cordon that off smoking language to the bad guys Hmm You know, the bad guys get out of this point of view.
protecting us have to be pretty squeaky clean. And that you know, we don't really have anti heroes. You get to see a you know, Dog Day Afternoon or go into Escape from New York. Anti heroes. they confuse us wait, there's this guy that does bad stuff or girl that but I like her. Yeah, wins. Right? Um, so I love all that. I love the controversy of it. My controversy is my God. Don't let your eight year old see adventures in babysitting.
They'll go around all day. chit chit let them see don't tell mom the babysitter's dead first at 10 maybe and then by 12 or 13? You could decide be in the room? Yeah, try the TV version that doesn't have the language see if they like it or something. But don't throw us. I mean, there's at least five really bad words that would not be allowed on primetime or whatever and their content.
Yeah, and also thing but yeah,
danger. And kids felt like they were the parents aren't watching right they really know this, which is that this admissions are plopped load in the theater. The parents went to go see interspace right.
Yeah, I think probably a lot of that stuff went over my head as a kid like legs locked. I probably had no idea what that meant. You know, when I was eight years old or whatever it saw it so but you know what else was interesting about that? I heard I think I heard you say the host saying in one of your interviews that it cost $50,000 to get just 16 bars of that Rolling Stone song for the movie.
Yeah, I don't know the exact numbers but I do know they said the licensing costs for Gimme Shelter just before Mick Jagger's voice comes in. Because that would have been a lot more money Oh, was more than me and Anthony wraps combined salaries. And so that's it that number.
So being a rock star, I'm think might be the way to go. If you can do the Rolling Stones and be the biggest band on the planet. Yeah. So okay, yeah. Let's talk about don't tell mom the babysitter's dead another, I would say classic still has a following still a lot of fans. Yeah. Tell me about your role in that because you said you were kind of more of a nerd in real life. So and you had like a flat top and you had
to put on a wig and stuff. Did you base that character off of somebody that you knew in real life?
Yeah, I you know, it's funny. I live next door to fro garden here who was I want to say one of the inspirations for Jeff spicoli because he went to school with Sean Penn had so many mannerisms because when Sean You know how sean penn I watched this amazing interview sean penn got Fast Times at ridgemont High by approaching Amy Heckerling and saying, I have an idea for this. I know these kinds of guys that grew up with them. And she goes, Well,
could you read it for me? He goes, No, you'll see it when I step on the set. Wow, that's pretty ballsy. Okay. Yeah. And he comes with, not a caricature. And look who's playing it. Look at this Oscar winning completely serious actor. Yeah. Well, he knows he knows this guy. That's the thing. I live next door to the real guy that he knows. So spicoli is part of it. And then you also the fun is the same directors bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure, Steven.
Good. Yeah. So Bill and Ted had a lot of that kind of feeling after the fact after I did though, Tom the babysitter's dead. I saw River's Edge. And I realized that Keanu Reeves had River's Edge is so close to what I was doing, which naturally comes with that. It's him who actually played I don't even remember if you spill your head. It's kind of funny.
He's, thank you,
but also an actor that has a serious chops and everything but he played when I know I love it. I love when stuff keeps self referencing back. I did do my third babysitter movie.
Complete the trilogy. Exactly. So you know, this is like, weird question. But you don't even know if you know the answer. You must know the answer, actually, because so in all these, like 80s, and kind of early 90s movies, it always starts off with like a messy house or messy something. And then, you know, they do that cleanup scene at the end. And they clean out the garage, they paint the house. Do you guys go in and you find a messy house
and then paint it up? Or did you find like a new house with a pool was all ready to go and then you made it dirty? How does that work? You know what I'm saying?
Well, you find a really beautiful house, okay, find a family that just hit the lottery and is about to go on vacation for months at a time. And you I don't know what the rentals are, but they're, you know, thousands a day to rent a house like that as a location, but it's often cheaper than renting a studio and building a set. Maintaining that set striking the set, you know, you're paying for the set on the weekends when you're not even using it. So on location shooting, I love it. Because it
is what it is. You're there. You're the relocation you're not pretending, you know, in some studio, and we shot the bulk of the movie was at the home.
Oh, okay.
So it's actually in the house. It's not a studio that made it look like a house there.
Two months there. Yeah, it's been a month shooting all the exteriors and the office stuff. And then two months at the house. And that's great, because it becomes your home and you know, yeah, your bedroom and art departments amazing. They'll go and dress the whole house. Yeah. And we shot it in order. In continuity usually do that if you're at a diner location, you're going to shoot, the first thing that happens the diner at scene 10.
And yeah, there's one later in the movie, it seems 70 you're going to shoot that scene 10 scene first, just to have a feeling continuity for the actors later, when they shoot the second scene, oh, they have their memory of that last scene. And it also helps as you age the house, whether it's breaking it down, it gets Messier, and Messier and Messier as mom's gone. And at one point, we turn as we realize we're a family of
felons. You know, we all come together and clean the thing up so they took this nice house, they distressed it. Okay, wrecked the yard. Had a wash be painted ugly, at a wash, dirty and filthy. They, you know, dig inside of the house was beautiful because it It felt lived in. It looked naturally. Just gross. And what would happen if you have five kids? And, um, and the kitchen smelled. There was a lot of food on the on the set. And they left it there for a week. Six weeks?
Oh, every time we went to the kitchen it was
Oh,
yeah. It's that, you know, we start cleaning up and then we see to the movie for terror. Al they said a lot of these movies. The parents leave town and everything falls apart. And they said what if we write a movie where the parents leave town and the kids get their shit together? Yeah. And that was kind of the basic basis of it.
That's a great movie. You know what else I love is the another movie you did I actually own this on VHS toy soldiers. with Sean Aston and Wil Wheaton. Were you friends with those guys before that movie, or did you become friends with them on the set? You already knew them from before.
Now I knew Sean being their family friend with Sean asked him because his father was Gomez. Adams and my grandfather was uncle fester. So we knew them and and Anna or Patty Duke jack loved Patty Patty. For years I mean I you know since we were kids, I knew Sean and Mackenzie. So that's all homecoming and we'd circled each other I'd gone up for please don't hate me Mom, which Patty Duke directed. And Shawn one booking is one of his first jobs and I was a guest Just
nepotism. He goes, and Shawn goes, Yeah, well, my mom directed it. I get it, I get it. But he really wanted to do chips. Because his dad, john asked him one of directing chips episodes indirectly when I was on and he really wanted, you know, to work with his dad as a director. So, quid pro quo, my friend.
Yeah. And you have an idea for a sequel to that movie. Right?
Well, I love will, by the way, I'm friends with will, yes, toy soldiers. And I love him dearly. Um, it's hard not to find somebody in Hollywood who's very worried about what car they're leasing or what zip code they're in, or what kind of shoes they're wearing. And will was never someone like that. And so Hollywood always seemed baffling I think to him, and, but he's incredibly talented and successful at it. So he'd often stand there looking around going this town is absolutely nuts.
You know, just the job itself. He's less delusional than most of us are. They're actors that choose to ignore the weirdness of being an actor, and the incredible ups and downs. Mm hmm. So I love will dearly and got to work with them three times. Toy Soldiers on Python, the snake movie with Robert England, and on a great Tales from the Crypt episode.
Oh, Tales from the Crypt. Yeah, I love that show. I saw that you were on there trying to figure out which episode it was. That must have been fun to do that one.
Andrew debuff, who played that? Luis Kelly and toy soldiers has become a friend lifelong friend. And I think we'll even see him this weekend. Oh, wow. That's really cool. He called me Andy. Yeah. So that's the wires they will explode. I need to watch that movie again. And then you got a shot on location at a school. The only thing they did for controlling it was they built the interior of the boys dorm room. Okay, and the interior of the principal's office for at the end with Lou
Gossett, Jr. in the show. Damn it. Yeah. Blow Luis's head off. Those were built inside the school gym.
Okay. Wow, that's so cool. That looks like yeah, cuz I was it looks like a fun movie to work on for sure. And then you got you got this role of the tail of the two Coreys Corey Feldman produced it now. You're Are you friends with him as well. You played like a kind of a creepy guy who takes advantage of Corey Haim?
Yeah, well, I've been friends with Feldman since we were since prior that Fox and the Hound. I think I even was his hand model stand in on Mattel commercial. Oh, six satvik or something. And, um, we circled each other for parts. We work together on the kid with the broken Halo with Gary Coleman and rubber Gil. And so, uh, yeah, I had audition for another part. And Cory, I was executive producer. I think in terms of licensing some material from his autobiography
choreography. I think there's a couple of chapters in there that kind of crossed over on the Taylor to chorus, which is another book that was licensed for that. Hmm. Um, and so I wound up getting that part, which was great. short scene. Um, you know, it was disturbing to a lot of people. Yeah, that, that made me very happy. I don't really play that, you know,
you don't get to play the villain very much. Yeah.
Yeah. And I had to, you know, you have to crawl into the shoes of a character and make it make sense. Um, otherwise there's just no connection between you and the character and how do you play something you know that in the in the, you know, in the pieces just so shocking and terrible and so I did it a couple of different ways. And what takes they decided to use it's just very funny because what was going on in the head is entirely different workbooks on screen.
But, you know, there's a way that certain you know, certain things like it's about Cyrano it Cyrano. de Bergerac. Great play. Cyrano doesn't enter for several scenes. Um, he set up. Oh, god, he's so smart. Oh, what a fencer. What a war hero. What a sharp wit. And they keep setting him up and then right before they're like don't look at his notes what Bowlby comes on so loaded that the actor ANY ACTOR could just stand there with the
fake proposes. And the audience is going to have that reaction because of the way it was written and the way it was set up. Yeah, that's cool. Though. Taylor to Korea is shocked the hell out of me. Yeah. I because of the confidentiality ease and because of the nature of the material. the sensitivity of telling Their story, because every kid and they give every kid in the industry even incredibly similar types of
careers. Totally different, different families, different backgrounds, different, you know, history in the business, and different. Totally, just totally different experience. So my jaw was on the floor, I was weeping at the premiere. I didn't know that. It was that bad for so many kids in the business. Um, and, you know, I'd already heard for many women in the business. We'd already talked about a job that may have been really fun for me as a kid to work on. But maybe for an
older actress. It wasn't as fun because there were Harvey Weinstein ish kind of issues going on, right? I'm as kid I'm oblivious,
right? Yeah, no, that makes sense.
Yeah. And also as adults, most adults are oblivious to any sort of, you know, trauma going on there. Like what what's going on like kids playing? He's fine. You don't know kids very afraid to talk about it like that. So I was just shocked and really impressed with it. I thought that lifetime did a great job with it. I've seen I love just total whorish Entertainment. Totally love. Um, you know, lifetime. Their movies are great. They're just absolutely
ridiculous and scandalous. But they're usually not that well made. That here like, I I thought it was really well done.
I want to Yeah, I want to see that. So it's a really well, yeah. It's a lifetime off to check that out, then. are you
on? Give me a shot.
I heard that you're friends with Jake Busey. Did you guys work together? Like he is such a fascinating
guy to me. Like, from nine years old till 19 he was. Jake lived up the street. And Gary was a neighbor. I just spent a lot of time over Jake's house. What is that like being a jayyousi gave Jared who was a bitch from real genius.
Right? Yeah. You said he's one of your good friends. But what's it like being a Debussy's house? is are there is Gary Busey? Is he like that in real life? Or is he tone it down?
Well, I think that, you know, I don't want to speak for Jake or Gary. But I know that that Jake and Gary have expressed that I read interviews and stuff that he's on the Gary is different after his head injury after his accident. And, um, that, you know, his personality has changed. He's still very Gary. But you know, the context. It's the early 80s. And Jake's one of my best friends. And, um, and so, also because I already have my grandfather in the business.
It's no big deal for me seeing the Oscar nomination thing on the wall, hearing about what jobs next what country he has to fly off to what shots he has to get. It's just standard, you know, hearing your like friend's dad talking about inventory at the shots. So weird. This is really cool. Well, yeah. But also there were more funny. My mom was really like, worried about people taking advantage or suing you because you might have money or something like that. She was just always very
careful. Gary was so smart. Jake, we wanted to build a huge halfpipe in his backyard. Huge. I mean, we're gonna get timber and like, build this planet and schematics and build this thing. And so we did, but he had all of the neighborhood kids sign insurance waivers. Use it. Wow. And I was like, how off brand for Gary. Yeah, so love Polaroids. That's one thing that nobody knows is Gary Busey would, whenever Jake had a birthday party or whatever, that Gary would circle it with the
Polaroid camera. So hopefully Jake or his mom God has these Polaroids which are just a priceless little time capsule of Malibu and the BCS house in the 80s. That's awesome. You did the Jay and Silent Bob reboot. Can you explain I heard you talking about this, this rule with the reboots? This is so fascinating to me. So it's a 35th year, explain this something about the royalties revert back to the writer instead of the studio. So that's why they keep making all
these reboots. Yeah. Yeah, there is a some other Writers Guild decree that if a studio doesn't do something with the property after so many years, kind of renewing that interest in the property, kind of like the Spider Man thing with Marvel, they had to make a new Spider Man movie every couple of years. So they'd lose the license to it. super fantastic for make fantastic fours that are unreliable. And it doesn't
matter. They've fulfilled their contract to show interest in the license and to keep continue to do something. And so I really see this as a, you know, this is a great opportunity. There's great nostalgia for the time period that just happens to sync up with, hey, if we happen to renew this We get to hold on to the intellectual property rights. Yeah, and so big deal. Yeah. Not a big gun conspiracy theory. No, no, no, not a conspicious interesting that I'm starting to see the ones that
are at the tail end. Yeah. more years. You're gonna lose it. They remade the project.
They remade adventures in babysitting. So do you think they'll remake or reboot? Don't tell mom the babysitter's dead?
Yeah, they are. They've announced it.
Oh, they did?
Yeah, they really have writers on it. And I've expressed my interest the entire cast. We would love to be involved.
Yeah. Can you get a cameo? At least
nobody said we're in or anything like, okay, I had heard the filmmakers acknowledged that audiences today. Like it when the reboots and the remakes include the original cast or acknowledges existence. Exactly, you know? Yeah, no, I lampshade it one quick thing. Yeah. a cameo like that. Um, and I don't think they're against that idea. So I want to keep doing the Hollywood hustle that I do. And continue to stay on message that Yeah, it'd be awesome. If Kenny could come back.
That would be amazing.
You got a bakery shop. We bakery shop.
There you go. it's legal. muffins.
Yeah, total space gigs.
Do you have any other projects on the horizon that are that's coming out. I
do have because of Jay and Silent Bob reboot. And the documentarian who did Josh Roush who made Magnum dopest, which is a great making of the Jay and Silent Bob reboot. Fantastic Film and it looks great. He made a feature and I did it during COVID. We had COVID tests of amazing cast coming up, kind of a you know, a little thriller, comedy thriller, dark comedy thriller,
and I have a great part. I totally stoked Austin did the corona quarantine bunch with a bunch of child star friends Jeremy Miller, from growing pains from The Waltons, Danny bintaro. who's lost Yeah. Scotty Schwartz from Christmas story and the toy. And Dean McDermott. Tori Spelling's husband, although not a former child star, we pretend he was. we invent a fake child actor that he used to be, because we're all playing fake versions of ourselves. Okay, you know, we all are managing our former
child stars differently. Okay. And we all have different, healthier and unhealthy perspectives on what that means. So it's funny for Dean to come up with the, you know, a fabric I think his first credit, he was 19 and I BB so he wasn't exactly a child actor, but close on. I think you've been around enough to Yeah, what story is, is it? So? And then next. Next is I don't know. Getting your audition. Fantastic agent. I am just grateful for that being in the game when I go pay my sag
dues in a minute. Oh, is it due tomorrow? And I'm just you know, keep your head up. I love it. I think there's a great opportunities now to make your own stuff. Yeah, um, you know, the democratization of it cheaper camera equipment, lighting stuff. sag. Screen Actors Guild has lots of contracts that are easier to work with, for filmmakers to use sag talent. All of that is coming together perfectly to help a 50 year old white man. Try to have a career today.
Yeah, and you're doing the Comic Cons. I mean, before the pandemic, and so you like
that. And so that's a lot of fun. Oh, wow. Fun. And if only anybody knew they're not that nice. They're not that genre. Yes. There's people that spend countless amounts of money on time on preparing cosplay outfits for a weekend, right? You don't have to go that nuts. General Admission to some sort of autograph convention or Comic Con if you've never been.
There's just so fun. They're incredibly because, I mean, there's just so many t shirts and things and yeah, celebrities, artists, writers, filmmakers, um, that there's just so much to learn about moviemaking and TV and comics. That doesn't matter. Even small shows with just a few celebrity guests. Try it out. It's such a great shared experience. I know we can't do it now during COVID here some conventions have moved forward with smaller attendance well, distance masks all that
stuff. No selfies, but you can still have that kind of one on one time with somebody cool cuz Look, it's so funny. I you could pass up a Clint Eastwood and be like, oh my god. It's a bobcat Goldthwait. You don't know love him is your jam.
He's a great director by the way. Yeah, I don't know if you've seen his direct work. Yeah,
he's a nice shakes the clown or
God bless America. That was the big foot one that he did. That was kind of low budget, but it was really well done. He's a genius, but
he is one of the most subversive filmmakers ever. Yeah, I love it shakes the clown when they're driving in He is with his friends and he pukes out the car and puke is just, you know, spilling out the back of the car. And they turn it over they go, you know, shakes. We think you have a drinking problem. And shakes goes, You know what? I think I have a lot of friends who are a bunch of assholes.
Oh, that's great. And they people can go on your
website. That's great. He was there on my opening night as a comic. And oh, backstage. Wow, I'm talking to where did you perform
which venue?
It was at a
Westside comedy sitcom? Probably not in Santa Monica. Oh, cool. It's in an alley. You go behind the bank. Look for the red dumpster ask for Toby. It's a little, you know, 5075 seat theater thing and they turn it over. You don't just sit all day. It's a show or 10 bucks a show. And every hour they just turn it over for something new. It's a neat space. That sounds fun cat. I'm just dying. Yeah. Magic Mountain in the 80s with a bunch of child
actor friends. Virgin. Virgin sacrifices the name and it on YouTube. They have a bunch of virgin sacrifices. You have to have never done stuff. stand up comedy before. Ah, I do it. Right. written your own act. Wow. See these online? They're great.
That's funny. And then people go on your website, Keith Coogan. Online calm. Yep. And then you sell a plate that says the dishes are done, man. And you sign it right.
I do have a sample here. No, I have some disorders to get out right now. Yeah, I got autographed photos. And I do sign dishes.
That's awesome. Man. Thank you. You know, you don't you're not annoyed having to say that catchphrase or whatever. Like some other actors, right?
I don't know what that fascinates me. Because I'd like to know which actors who who's annoyed by it.
Well, like like Gary Coleman. I'm sure he didn't want to say like, what you're talking about Willis all the time. Right.
I do you think Todd bridges feels when it's not even his line? Hmm. I'm sure I don't know. And I want to ask them. I think that's fascinating. It is fascinating. I personally love it. Yeah, I'm gonna be goddamn headstone your dishes are done, man. And my job as an actor is to keep endeavoring a career. Maybe replace that quote? And if not, yes, I've got one. Here you go. Better than happy to have one. It's great. And I'm also grateful that that's not on yet. Right? I do have great TV work.
Oh, so much stuff. Other films that you know, that if you took that one away, I still have this amazingly blessed career. Absolutely. But I think don't tell mom is the one I'm recognized most from. Um, and I do And trust me, friends with Joanna Cassidy. Who's just, she's amazing. And she also is really surprised at how people love rose Lindsey. And right on top of that, Rose.
Yeah, yeah. She
gets quoted more on don't tell mom then Who Framed Roger Rabbit? Blade Runner. It's just that this is the thing that sticks out for people, you know? Um, I think that's I think that's amazing. Like,
how often do you just when you're getting coffee or going to lunch or something? Do people go? A the dishes are done? Like, how often does that happen?
So I'm at a funeral in Utah. family friend and stuff. And we're there and it's a church. And then after the service, there's like a little reception in the basement or the you know, there's a rec area under the church. And I've got the punch and the thing and snacks and gentlemen comes up to me kind of somber and he goes, could you could you just say at once, just just one.
funeral? Oh, of course. I'm like,
it's fine. Everyone's actually laughing because they knew he had fanboy doubt. Oh, talk to me. Yeah, they were just waiting for the moment. And so I thought that was hysterical. That's funny.
You got a good outlook on I like it. That's very cool. Well, I like to always end with the charity. And you mentioned, what is it reading is fundamental.
Yeah, reading is fundamental. I started reading it a young age probably three, my mother sat with me and read. And reading is fundamental provides books to schools and other organizations that will get them into the hands of kids. Oh, and then you know, all parent approved books. You don't have to worry about are you there? God, it's me, Margaret, winding up in a kid. But I am. Yeah, I really believe that.
That is one of the things that could help kids is they get attacked with information from their parents and from their teachers and from media and television. They're spending six to eight hours a day on the screen. Yeah. And I think building worlds in your mind and really learning the art of our language and how powerful our language is. Reading is fundamental. So rif.org re f.org, get what you can. And we do events where celebrities go to schools, and read, Hop on
Pop, or cat mahat. there for me to do that in front of school kids that brought full circle to me, being a kid and being entertained, and I think reading is part of it. If you ever want to be an actor, yeah, you're gonna have to study and research and learn technique, and it takes the same discipline of learning any other kind of, you know, degree, you really have to study the history of it, the technique of it, and get practiced at it. Um, or you could be a natural and kind of
learn as you go. And so to answer your first question, no, I never did do acting classes. I did try them in 15 or 16. People were doing it but it never stuck. I had one workshop, Dennis Kelly's workshop, that was different. It was you get a scene and you have 15 minutes to learn it. Mm hmm. Pick your props, your things, put it up on stage in front of the class, you get notes. And that's it. you bury it. You never do the scene
again. Well, I didn't like acting classes that worked on the same scene week, because that's not realistic.
Yeah, that's true.
Like I'm doing a play. We're running a show. No, I think that's cool. You just do it week after week painting.
Yeah, I thought the best way to learn something is just jump in and do it. And that's what you did. And you just got better and better as you went and kept going. And and you're still gonna have to learn. I
got to learn from people. One of my first jobs so you master viewer, Henry Fonda. And then I've worked with send me up there from bewitched, or then you know cast to The Waltons. And the cast of a coup de llegar was a big influence. Um, I did a movie that week with him and Jenna rowland's and Jane Alexander, where he played a father trying to split up my lesbian mothers, because they've gotten a divorce because this was in the 70s.
Wow, that's progressive,
randomly controversial and battered with Mike Farrell and Karen Brasil. Also had LeVar Burton and chip fields Kim fields mother. So I remember being on the set. And this little girl chips daughter, this is before facts of life. Um, I remember Lisa, Bo ne approaching me at a party and ask me how to get into the business. How do you get an agent? How do you do this? And I'm usually pretty open with that kind of stuff. I know, people this is how you do it. This is what it takes. It's not
a secret. Yeah, hide it or keep it from other people. It's hard enough. But yeah, I think that there are so many people that have a talent in there to tell stories. And be interesting to look at. Mm hmm. Interesting, beautiful, cute, ugly, something that makes audiences kind of pay attention. Um, I, the homogeneity of a lot of the kind of white male young athletic leads has been shattered by a prayer for more representation
on screen. Sure. And it's changing what a hero is and what a protagonist is, and storytelling. It not what it is. It's we're changing. We're kind of adapting understand that the white males voice was just one voice. Absolutely. Yeah, we had a good run. Every single story was about white suburbia. Yes, calling it like it is right. Because of that. I've worked out a lot. As a kid, I had a very healthy movie career pretty much predicated on scared white
suburban kids. So I am more than willing to play that baffled suburban dad, trying to adapt to the new world. Because I myself, am 50 years old, never had an idea, really, you know what you're doing in this business? You just know that you keep yourself kind of grounded and regular if you can, yep. So that when it calls on you, you can drop everything put on a costume and kind of, you know, you get the opportunity to do that to me. So I'm just grateful. Very lucky. I continue to be lucky in
that. I'm still still go.
So going. Yeah. It'll be exciting. Yeah. Well, excited to follow your career. Thank you so much for doing this. And
I'll talk to you soon. Great interview. Great research. Thank you a plus. Thank you on having done great research. All right.
Thank you so much. All right. Bye. Bye.
Have a good one. All right.
Later, Keith Coogan. Oh man, that was a lot of fun to fanboy out with him. I was a big fan. And it's always a bit surreal to talk to these people that seem so untouchable when you're a kid. Like if I could go back in time and tell my younger self, hey, one day you're going to interview this guy that you're watching this movie right now and he's even going to tell you that you did a great job at it. I mean, that'd be crazy. So, thank you to
Keith. Make sure to follow Him and keep up up to date with what he's doing. I'm excited for don't tell mom the babysitter's dead reboot. I think it could actually be a lot of fun. And I'm sure he's gonna do a lot of other cool stuff. I kind of want one of those dishes. I think that might look good on my wall. I don't know. Thank you all for listening. You can follow me on social media or subscribe to the podcast wherever you listen, or watch it. And remember, shoot for the moon.